#1 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 2:13 pm Subject: Welcome -- an opening discussion richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Welcome to all of you brave souls who have joined the list (and one or two of you who are still thinking about it via bcc). Hello, my name is Richard and I've owned seven Sony APR-500x machines. I still own six. I decided to start this list to have an official (if cozy) location for fans of these machines to discuss them. I first heard about this machine in the mid-1980s when I was on some SMPTE committee along with one of the design team from Florida. It sounded way back then that they were doing things right. In October 1998, I found a 5003V on the Web for $250 plus $100 shipping and I couldn't say no. When I got the machine, I became greatly enamored with its features and flexibility. Let's call this machine number 1. In early 2003 this developed an annoying intermittent increase in flutter and has been retired for service later. In May of 2001, I bought another 5003V locally for $350. I also bought some relapped heads from Sprague Magnetics. In January 2003, I modified the machine to be switchable 2-track / full-track and sold it to a friend. This is #2 In July of 2001, I bought two 5002 carcasses for $475 for both. I fitted a full erase/record/play set of Nortronics heads (Woelke erase) into one of the head assemblies. The other I built up with one each quarter-track stereo and an 8-track stereo play heads, switched with a toggle switch which also changes the head stack ID. These are #3 and #4. They have donated a few parts (hall effect tension sensor board to #1 and display board to #2). In January 2002, I split a 5002 with a friend. I got the head block, he got the rest of the parts. This is now a Nortronics record/play Woelke erase head assembly. This is stack A In October 2002, I bought two ex-Henniger Video 5003Vs (#5 & #6) for a total of $1050, including shipping. These also came with Evertz timecode reader/generators/editor interfaces. These are the latest software. One of these was drop shipped and the neck attaching the meter bridge to the unit was ripped out of the meter bridge. UPS refunded me $350, let me keep the machine and one of the two 5002s donated its meter bridge. These are my primary machines. In January 2003, I bought a 7th APR-5003V which is awaiting my pickup this summer at my brother-in-law's in the Toronto area (Aurora). I paid $400 US for it. It has some hopefully minor problems. Here's a summary of my head assemblies--and a listing of all valid head stack ID numbers (the speed is an independent variable): Track Width Speed Stack # Switch Description 1 1/4 7.5–30 3 11001001 Nortronics Full Track R/P head stack 1 1/4 3.75–15 3 10010001 Reserved for using full track at 3.75--not recommended 2 1/4 unassigned 1x001010 2 1/4 3.75–15 4 10010010 1/4 Track head stack - 1/4 track head 2 1/4 3.75–15 4 10011010 1/4 Track head stack - 1/8 track head 2 1/4 7.5–30 A 11100010 2-track DIN Rec/Play (Nortronics) 2 1/2 unassigned 1x101010 2 1/2 unassigned 1x110010 3 1/4 7.5–30 5 & 6 11001011 2-track timecode head stack--normal mode 3 1/4 3.75–15 1 10010011 2-track timecode head stack--slow mode 3 1/2 unassigned 1x011011 3 1/2 unassigned 1x100011 HEAD ASSEMBLY NOT ASSIGNED (the one still in Toronto): 3 1/4 7.5–30 7 11001011 2-track timecode head stack--normal mode To not go into as much detail, I also have (4) Studer A810, two good ones in consoles with time code, two parts machines. I currently have two-track timecode head assemblies (3) two-track stereo head assemblies (2) two-track DIN "butterfly" head assembly (1) I also have a complete set of full-track mono heads which will go into one of the two-track stereo assemblies, eventually. I am also exploring my options for a 1/4-track stereo assembly. I also have A Studer A807 MK II 2-track stereo record/play Two Studer A807 MK I 2-track/1/4-track stereo play only machines awaiting pickup in Toronto this summer. In the consumer lines I have: Revox A77 MK III Dolby B, Slow speed Kit and experience to upgrade above to high speed Revox A77 MK I Parts machine (1/4 track) Tandberg 3500X Uher 4000 Report S (non-op) Cassette: Two Nakamichi Dragons One Nakamichi MR-1 (for its varispeed) A Kenwood KX-W8030 dual recorder (for reference cassettes) A Sony TCD-5M for playing back oddball tapes Other analog: Akai CR-80D-SS Quadraphonic 8-track cartridge recorder Digital: Sony PCM-F1 adapter Philips DCC recorder Sony Minidisk recorder Sony Consumer DAT Sony D8 DAT Walkman Two Panasonic SV-3800 DATs Two portable Sony MiniDisc recorders Three computers with various sound cards Now tell me about yours! Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #2 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 2:25 pm Subject: I left out richardlhess Offline Send Email from my addiction, the Otari collection: MTR-12/4CH MTR-10/4CH for the above the following heads: 4CH E/R/P 1/2-inch 1/2-inch 2 and 3 channel (have the heads, under construction) 1/4-inch 3 and 4 channel (working--the normal head assembly on the MTR-12. MTR-12/2CH timecode with heads MTR-10/2CH with heads The normal tape machine complement in the studio is: APR 5&6 Studer A810 (2) Studer A807 Otari MTR-12/4CH The Otari MTR-10/4CH is in a nearby closet ready to roll in. The other machines are wrapped and in the garage/storage room Cheers, Richard the tapeaholic Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #3 From: newmedia@... Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 12:10 pm Subject: Re: Welcome -- an opening discussion newmedia@... Send Email Richard: > Now tell me about yours! Er, if you really wanta know (let's see if I can do this from memory) . . . < g> APR(SONY/MCI)-related: 2x PCM-3204 DASH 1x PCM-3202 DASH 1x RM-D7300 Ampex: 1x 350 FT 1/4" 2x AG-300 HT 1/4", 3T 1/4" 1x AG-440B FT 1/4" 1x PR-10 3x 351 electronics 1x 354 electronics Inovonics: 3x 375 electronics 2x 377 electronics Scully: 1x 284 8T 1" 1x SyncMaster Magnecord: 2x 1028 2x 1024 2x 1021 1x PT6A Nagra: 1x TI-8 3x IV-SJ 1x IV-SJS 1x III Stellavox: 1x SM8 1x SR8 1x SP7 Otari: 3x MTR12 II 4T 1/2", 2T 1/2", CTTC 1/4" 1x MTR12 CTTC 1/4" 1x ARS1000 1x DTR-8S DAT Bruel & Kjaer: 1x 7001 2x 7003 1x 7004 Hewlett Packard: 4x 3964A Onkyo (Nakamichi): 1x TA-2090 Sony (other): 1x PCM-R500 DAT 1x PCM-M1 DAT 1x PCM-T7 DAT 1x WM-D6 Cassette 1x TC-WE435 Dual Cassette 1x PCM-F1 14/16bit Beta 3x PCM-1610 14/16bit Umatic 1x PCM-10 14bit Umatic Tascam: 2x 40-4 Technics: 1x RS-1506US Fostex: 1x B16 Datenteknik: 1x CMR-1014 Cassette Alesis: 1x ADAT 8T SVHS Yipes!! That adds up to FIFTY (plus) tapedecks!! Not counting all the computers (Nuendo, Protools, Cakewalk, Steinberg, etc.) > Richard the tapeaholic So, what does that make me?? Oh, yeah . . . I'm a LABORATORY!! Mark Stahlman Director New Media Laboratory New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #4 From: Gary Louie Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 6:34 pm Subject: Re: Welcome -- an opening discussion louie@... Send Email Richard L. Hess wrote: > Hi, Welcome... Sheesh, I know my little university office is outclassed, so I'm not even gonna try to list everything. We have a few of most of that stuff, tho! But I've got 1 (one) APR-5002, which I had my university buy new for me when the machines were pretty new (I don't have the date here at home). I think it was about $5K. I wanted an update to our Otari MTR-10s, and the Sony got a great review in RE/P from Peter Butt. It has Woelke 2 track heads, the rollaround base, and the circuit cards, being early, are pretty sloppy compared to later versions. This came with the ROM flaw that made the time counter run wrong for the first minute of negative time. I think Jacques Verdier was the Burbank Sony rep at the time, and he exchanged the ROM for an updated one. About the only thing I've had to do on it is change the hall-effect tension sensor board, which was acting up about 10 years ago. The end-of-tape sensor drifts a bit and sometimes I have to readjust it so the reel tables stop. The pinch roller is original. I use the thing constantly to play (and digitize) reels from our music school's 50 year collection. I like the fact that it'll play from 3.75 to 45 IPS, but lament that the MVC can't work in varispeed. One of these days, I want to Dremel the 3 reel hub fins because they are very square and I sometimes have trouble getting reels to slip all the way down. I would certainly be interested in getting a personal APR if the price and condition were right, or a Nagra T, but they're more money. An advantage of the T is that there are no fixed guides in spool mode, handy for looking at sticky shed tapes. Anyone know what the parts situation is? Or 3-rd party pinch rollers and such? -Gary Louie, U of Wash, Seattle Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #5 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 7:08 pm Subject: Re: PARTS (was Welcome -- an opening discussion) richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:34 PM 4/5/2003 -0800, Gary Louie wrote: >I've got 1 (one) APR-5002, which I had my university buy new for me when >the machines were pretty new (I don't have the date here at home). I think >it was about $5K. I wanted an update to our Otari MTR-10s, and the Sony >got a great review in RE/P from Peter Butt. It has Woelke 2 track heads, the >rollaround base, and the circuit cards, being early, are pretty sloppy >compared to later versions. This came with the ROM flaw that made the time >counter run wrong for the first minute of negative time. I think Jacques >Verdier was the Burbank Sony rep at the time, and he exchanged the ROM for >an updated one. That's good news. One of the ennoyances is that any software version prior to 4.02.01.6 does not recognize the slow-speed speed change properly. If you select slow speed with the head DIP switch, and you change speeds, it reverts to the high speed settings. When you change the speed DIP switch, I'd suggest that you also use another register--that way you're not messing with the EQ calibrations for the first speed. Remember, the register is agnostic to speed...but holds three sets of settings per speed. See the table buried in the bottom of my first post. >About the only thing I've had to do on it is change the hall-effect tension >sensor board, which was acting up about 10 years ago. Me too! >The end-of-tape sensor drifts a bit and sometimes I have to readjust it so >the reel tables stop. Been there, done that--a headache to get to, but once you do it, not bad. >The pinch roller is original. I did buy a spare in 1998 but Sony has since dumped all the parts as far as I can tell. >I use the thing constantly to play (and digitize) reels from our music >school's 50 year collection. I like the fact that it'll play from 3.75 to 45 >IPS, but lament that the MVC can't work in varispeed. You can get it to work from 1.875-22.5 and from 3.75 to 45 in two overlapping ranges, as described above. In fact, I just bought a 1.88 in/s alignment tape from MRL to ease my 1.88 work. >One of these days, I >want to Dremel the 3 reel hub fins because they are very square and I >sometimes have trouble getting reels to slip all the way down. I'd Dremel the reels . >I would certainly be interested in getting a personal APR if the price and >condition were right, or a Nagra T, but they're more money. An advantage >of the T is that there are no fixed guides in spool mode, handy for looking at >sticky shed tapes. Yes, but but but...there are other problems with even spooling sticky shed tapes. I'd rather bake than fight or something like that. Mark Stahlman may have some comments about the Nagra T-audio. I've always admired it. You may also find that some Studers, most notably the A80 and A820 do not have any fixed guides during spooling. I think even the A810 and A807 are a bit better in that regard than the APR. By the way, I widened the most-used-portion of the guides on the full-track stack to accommodate 6.5mm tape without binding. Did you all see my article on the Mullin-Palmer tapes (I know some of you have). http://www.aes.org/journal/suppmat/hess_2001_7.pdf >Anyone know what the parts situation is? Nonexistent as far as I know. >Or 3-rd party pinch rollers and such? Good news: Nortronics heads fit the machines. Bad news, Joe Dundovic is out of the 2-track play heads for this machine, though he may still have some DIN stereo (0.100 inch tracks vs 0.082 inch tracks) heads that fit. http://www.magneticheadstockroom.com/ John Austin of Sprague Magnetics may have some Woelkes (relapped) available. I bought a pair from him. As you know, I've been buying machines for parts. Cheaper in many respects -- and necessary in some instances. I heard some people tell stories of major manufacturers sledge-hammering old stock machines before dumpstering them so they won't possibly get stuck with warranty support!!! By the way, I forgot to mention my Alesis XT-20, 20-bit 8-channel ADAT! Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #6 From: newmedia@... Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 2:54 pm Subject: Re: PARTS (was Welcome -- an opening discussion) newmedia@... Send Email Richard: While I'm hoping we stay pretty close to the APR machines on this list -- my DASH machines share the transport, I'm led to believe (and the PCM-3402 may even be somewhat later) -- it certainly makes sense to also discuss the "alternatives." > Mark Stahlman may have some comments about > the Nagra T-audio. I've always admired it. I don't have a TA and have only used one briefly . . . but I have an OEM version of the machine that started it all -- the Nagra TI -- plus I have collected many anecdotes about the whole family. The net/net seems to be a fairly broad consensus that the TA doesn't sound particularly "musical" . . . despite (or because of?) it's truly remarkable specifications. If true . . . the reasons for this "failure" might originate from a few directions -- 1) The machine was never designed for "music" in the first place. It is an instrumentation transport, which was "re-purposed" largely for the post-production playback of center-track timecode "dialogue" tapes from IV-STC's on movie sets. 2) The use of large number of op-amps and extremely sophisticated feedback circuits (i.e. the TA audio sections) is a "violation" of the generally agreed principles of short-path, sparse-component "clean" audio design. Lastly, I'm engaged in a (crazy?) project to build new tube (yup, tube) electronics for the TI transport . . . so trying to get some "music" out of these machines (among others) -- in a 4-track 1/4" format -- is a real concern for me. Has anyone ever compared the audio circuit designs in the APR's to those in the Nagra TA -- or other comparable decks? Has anyone tried to build different (i.e. improved) audio electronics for the APR transport? Btw, the most famous example of doing this (as far as I know) are probably the Mark Levinson efforts -- the ML-5 based on the Studer A80 and then the Cello playback modules. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #7 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sun Apr 6, 2003 3:02 pm Subject: RE: PARTS (was Welcome -- an opening discussion) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I regret to say that while I worked at Sony, the hammering of old stock new machines was commonplace, and very painful to watch even then..... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4/5/03 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] PARTS (was Welcome -- an opening discussion) At 03:34 PM 4/5/2003 -0800, Gary Louie wrote: >I've got 1 (one) APR-5002, which I had my university buy new for me when >the machines were pretty new (I don't have the date here at home). I think >it was about $5K. I wanted an update to our Otari MTR-10s, and the Sony >got a great review in RE/P from Peter Butt. It has Woelke 2 track heads, the >rollaround base, and the circuit cards, being early, are pretty sloppy >compared to later versions. This came with the ROM flaw that made the time >counter run wrong for the first minute of negative time. I think Jacques >Verdier was the Burbank Sony rep at the time, and he exchanged the ROM for >an updated one. That's good news. One of the ennoyances is that any software version prior to 4.02.01.6 does not recognize the slow-speed speed change properly. If you select slow speed with the head DIP switch, and you change speeds, it reverts to the high speed settings. When you change the speed DIP switch, I'd suggest that you also use another register--that way you're not messing with the EQ calibrations for the first speed. Remember, the register is agnostic to speed...but holds three sets of settings per speed. See the table buried in the bottom of my first post. >About the only thing I've had to do on it is change the hall-effect tension >sensor board, which was acting up about 10 years ago. Me too! >The end-of-tape sensor drifts a bit and sometimes I have to readjust it so >the reel tables stop. Been there, done that--a headache to get to, but once you do it, not bad. >The pinch roller is original. I did buy a spare in 1998 but Sony has since dumped all the parts as far as I can tell. >I use the thing constantly to play (and digitize) reels from our music >school's 50 year collection. I like the fact that it'll play from 3.75 to 45 >IPS, but lament that the MVC can't work in varispeed. You can get it to work from 1.875-22.5 and from 3.75 to 45 in two overlapping ranges, as described above. In fact, I just bought a 1.88 in/s alignment tape from MRL to ease my 1.88 work. >One of these days, I >want to Dremel the 3 reel hub fins because they are very square and I >sometimes have trouble getting reels to slip all the way down. I'd Dremel the reels . >I would certainly be interested in getting a personal APR if the price and >condition were right, or a Nagra T, but they're more money. An advantage >of the T is that there are no fixed guides in spool mode, handy for looking at >sticky shed tapes. Yes, but but but...there are other problems with even spooling sticky shed tapes. I'd rather bake than fight or something like that. Mark Stahlman may have some comments about the Nagra T-audio. I've always admired it. You may also find that some Studers, most notably the A80 and A820 do not have any fixed guides during spooling. I think even the A810 and A807 are a bit better in that regard than the APR. By the way, I widened the most-used-portion of the guides on the full-track stack to accommodate 6.5mm tape without binding. Did you all see my article on the Mullin-Palmer tapes (I know some of you have). http://www.aes.org/journal/suppmat/hess_2001_7.pdf >Anyone know what the parts situation is? Nonexistent as far as I know. >Or 3-rd party pinch rollers and such? Good news: Nortronics heads fit the machines. Bad news, Joe Dundovic is out of the 2-track play heads for this machine, though he may still have some DIN stereo (0.100 inch tracks vs 0.082 inch tracks) heads that fit. http://www.magneticheadstockroom.com/ John Austin of Sprague Magnetics may have some Woelkes (relapped) available. I bought a pair from him. As you know, I've been buying machines for parts. Cheaper in many respects -- and necessary in some instances. I heard some people tell stories of major manufacturers sledge-hammering old stock machines before dumpstering them so they won't possibly get stuck with warranty support!!! By the way, I forgot to mention my Alesis XT-20, 20-bit 8-channel ADAT! Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #8 From: "alexabrash" Date: Wed May 21, 2003 8:44 pm Subject: USED SONY ARP 5000 alexabrash Offline Send Email HI, Like the rest of you I am a fan of the sony 5000 series I am looking for a used unit for sale? if anyone knows of one contact me through e-mail. Thank you Alex Abrash Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #9 From: "toro3stream" Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:36 pm Subject: APR-5000 toro3stream Offline Send Email I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #10 From: "toro3stream" Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:41 pm Subject: messages? toro3stream Offline Send Email p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to peruse those? Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #11 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:55 pm Subject: Re: Basic information ... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 06:41 PM 6/25/2003 +0000, toro3stream wrote: >p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to >peruse those? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/messages/1 But we don't have many, yet >I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how >to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! I assume that since you have bought a high-end pro tape recorder you know your way around tape recorders. Operation is straight-forward for the basics. What specifically do you wish to know? The threading path should be screened on the top plate...if it's not, I have pix of a threaded machine at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Setup is somewhat straightforward on the drop-down front panel. Use the shift key to store parameters. Try it until you get the hang of it. Press shift then release, then hold store and press the register button. How else can we help? Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #12 From: toro Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:07 pm Subject: Re: Basic information ... toro3stream Offline Send Email Actually - all of my experience with recorders is digital - I have read general information books on the subject of analog tape - but nothing specific to the Sony. All information, websites, etc. that you have or know about would be desired and appreciated. I know I will bite the bullet and purchase the $167 manual (yikes!) but I am also looking for more real world operation and advice. Thanks, Matt At 06:41 PM 6/25/2003 +0000, toro3stream wrote: >p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to >peruse those? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/messages/1 But we don't have many, yet >I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how >to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! I assume that since you have bought a high-end pro tape recorder you know your way around tape recorders. Operation is straight-forward for the basics. What specifically do you wish to know? The threading path should be screened on the top plate...if it's not, I have pix of a threaded machine at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Setup is somewhat straightforward on the drop-down front panel. Use the shift key to store parameters. Try it until you get the hang of it. Press shift then release, then hold store and press the register button. How else can we help? Cheers, Richard To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #13 From: Scott Phillips Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:45 pm Subject: RE: Basic information ... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I MAY have one in storage somewhere. I'll have a look....... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:56 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Basic information ... At 06:41 PM 6/25/2003 +0000, toro3stream wrote: >p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to >peruse those? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/messages/1 But we don't have many, yet >I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how >to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! I assume that since you have bought a high-end pro tape recorder you know your way around tape recorders. Operation is straight-forward for the basics. What specifically do you wish to know? The threading path should be screened on the top plate...if it's not, I have pix of a threaded machine at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Setup is somewhat straightforward on the drop-down front panel. Use the shift key to store parameters. Try it until you get the hang of it. Press shift then release, then hold store and press the register button. How else can we help? Cheers, Richard To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #14 From: David Ollard Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:42 pm Subject: RE: Basic information ... davidollard Online Now Send Email Let me know if you find two.... Dave Scott Phillips wrote: I MAY have one in storage somewhere. I'll have a look....... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:56 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Basic information ... At 06:41 PM 6/25/2003 +0000, toro3stream wrote: >p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to >peruse those? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/messages/1 But we don't have many, yet >I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how >to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! I assume that since you have bought a high-end pro tape recorder you know your way around tape recorders. Operation is straight-forward for the basics. What specifically do you wish to know? The threading path should be screened on the top plate...if it's not, I have pix of a threaded machine at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Setup is somewhat straightforward on the drop-down front panel. Use the shift key to store parameters. Try it until you get the hang of it. Press shift then release, then hold store and press the register button. How else can we help? Cheers, Richard To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #15 From: Gary Louie Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:48 pm Subject: Re: Basic information ... louie@... Send Email Gee, you've got about 50 years of analog tape background to learn!! Seriously, get the manual and read it carefully. You may not understand it all, you'll have to learn. I would think about springing for a checkout of the machine by an experienced analog APR technician, unless you have precision head gages, a full set of MRL alignment tapes, a scope, oscillator, wow/flutter meter, distortion analyzer, etc. - and know what you are doing. Once aligned, the machines really don't need slavish attention, but I would check everything very carefully before trusting my tapes on it. If you just need to get started, ask away. Everything will probably be a mystery to you if you've never done analog reels before. On 6/25/03 1:07 PM, toro wrote: > Actually - all of my experience with recorders is digital - I have read > general information books on the subject of analog tape - but nothing specific > to the Sony. All information, websites, etc. that you have or know about would > be desired and appreciated. I know I will bite the bullet and purchase the > $167 manual (yikes!) but I am also looking for more real world operation and > advice. > > Thanks, > > Matt Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #16 From: WBob Date: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:46 pm Subject: Re: Basic information ... wolfbob@... Send Email For general information on tape recorders go to www.tascam.com under USA, products, manuals :download the manual for the 32 and read pages 22-52. This is an excellent tutorial on multi track decks in general. WBob Gary Louie wrote: > Gee, you've got about 50 years of analog tape background to learn!! > Seriously, get the manual and read it carefully. You may not understand it > all, you'll have to learn. I would think about springing for a checkout of > the machine by an experienced analog APR technician, unless you have > precision head gages, a full set of MRL alignment tapes, a scope, > oscillator, wow/flutter meter, distortion analyzer, etc. - and know what you > are doing. Once aligned, the machines really don't need slavish attention, > but I would check everything very carefully before trusting my tapes on it. > > If you just need to get started, ask away. Everything will probably be a > mystery to you if you've never done analog reels before. > > On 6/25/03 1:07 PM, toro wrote: > > >>Actually - all of my experience with recorders is digital - I have read >>general information books on the subject of analog tape - but nothing specific >>to the Sony. All information, websites, etc. that you have or know about would >>be desired and appreciated. I know I will bite the bullet and purchase the >>$167 manual (yikes!) but I am also looking for more real world operation and >>advice. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Matt > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #17 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:58 am Subject: RE: Basic information ... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You bet !! -----Original Message----- From: David Ollard [mailto:davidollard@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:42 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Basic information ... Let me know if you find two.... Dave Scott Phillips wrote: I MAY have one in storage somewhere. I'll have a look....... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:56 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Basic information ... At 06:41 PM 6/25/2003 +0000, toro3stream wrote: >p.s. - I don't see any previous posts on this group - anyway to >peruse those? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/messages/1 But we don't have many, yet >I am a new owner of the Sony APR-5000 - I have no manual or idea how >to operate - any advice would be much appreciated! I assume that since you have bought a high-end pro tape recorder you know your way around tape recorders. Operation is straight-forward for the basics. What specifically do you wish to know? The threading path should be screened on the top plate...if it's not, I have pix of a threaded machine at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Setup is somewhat straightforward on the drop-down front panel. Use the shift key to store parameters. Try it until you get the hang of it. Press shift then release, then hold store and press the register button. How else can we help? Cheers, Richard To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #18 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:05 am Subject: RE: Basic information ... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree. I've worked with machines like the APR for 30 years... and properly maintained and adjusted, I'd rather listen to these things than any digital machine. BUT, when not in properly set up, they can sound horrible. The important difference is knowledge of the technology and proper care and feeding. There is a reason analog machines just refuse to go away, but they aren't like a digital machine. Mostly, a digital machine either works or doesn't. Pro analog machines can sound fantastic to awful, depending on the setup and condition..... -----Original Message----- From: Gary Louie [mailto:louie@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Basic information ... Gee, you've got about 50 years of analog tape background to learn!! Seriously, get the manual and read it carefully. You may not understand it all, you'll have to learn. I would think about springing for a checkout of the machine by an experienced analog APR technician, unless you have precision head gages, a full set of MRL alignment tapes, a scope, oscillator, wow/flutter meter, distortion analyzer, etc. - and know what you are doing. Once aligned, the machines really don't need slavish attention, but I would check everything very carefully before trusting my tapes on it. If you just need to get started, ask away. Everything will probably be a mystery to you if you've never done analog reels before. On 6/25/03 1:07 PM, toro wrote: > Actually - all of my experience with recorders is digital - I have read > general information books on the subject of analog tape - but nothing specific > to the Sony. All information, websites, etc. that you have or know about would > be desired and appreciated. I know I will bite the bullet and purchase the > $167 manual (yikes!) but I am also looking for more real world operation and > advice. > > Thanks, > > Matt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #19 From: toro Date: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:17 pm Subject: manual toro3stream Offline Send Email Thanks for the responses - does anyone have a manual to copy/sell/loan for the APR-5000? Matt Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #20 From: Gary Louie Date: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:56 pm Subject: Re: manual louie@... Send Email It's a 2 inch, 3 ring binder of several hundred pages, including full schematics and service info with many fold outs. I'd hate to have to xerox it. You mentioned $167 to buy it (from Sony?) which may be worth it, even if you sell the machine. Without a manual (as you found out) the machine is quite a mystery. On 6/26/03 2:17 PM, toro wrote: > Thanks for the responses - does anyone have a manual to copy/sell/loan for the > APR-5000? > > Matt Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #21 From: "kevinc927" Date: Wed Jul 2, 2003 5:23 pm Subject: New member here kevinc927 Offline Send Email Hi! I have recently joined this group, because I just acquired an APR- 5003V in great condition. It seems to work well and sounds great, however, didn't come with a manual. I am seeking a manual. Any suggestions? Kevin Carter www.kandkaudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #22 From: WBob Date: Wed Jul 2, 2003 5:53 pm Subject: Re: New member here wolfbob@... Send Email The manual costs and weighs almost as much as the deck. WB kevinc927 wrote: > Hi! > > I have recently joined this group, because I just acquired an APR- > 5003V in great condition. It seems to work well and sounds great, > however, didn't come with a manual. I am seeking a manual. Any > suggestions? > > Kevin Carter > www.kandkaudio.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #23 From: toro Date: Wed Jul 2, 2003 6:47 pm Subject: Re: New member here toro3stream Offline Send Email you and me both - contact sony - a manual will cost $167 Hi! I have recently joined this group, because I just acquired an APR- 5003V in great condition. It seems to work well and sounds great, however, didn't come with a manual. I am seeking a manual. Any suggestions? Kevin Carter www.kandkaudio.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #24 From: Gary Louie Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:53 pm Subject: Re: A Reminder! louie@... Send Email Just thought I would reiterate an important reminder that's in the manual on the APR500x - DON'T LET AN IMPORTANT TAPE SLIP DOWN AROUND THE REEL TABLE! Actually, the manual says not to put on an alignment tape without the cosmetic top plate installed around the reel tables, as there is a frequency generator ring magnet all around the underside of the reel tables. Any tape that flops down under the reel table will get hit with a powerful magnetic blast, sufficient to write an off-the-meter electo-belch on the tape. And of course, it is relatively easy for tape to flop down there even with the cover on. Please don't ask me how I know. Oddly, I've never had a problem with this since I bought the machine new. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #25 From: "nelsonrs2000" Date: Sun Aug 3, 2003 6:23 pm Subject: Manual nelsonrs2000 Offline Send Email Hello, I am looking for a manual for the Sony APR 5000 series. Do somebody have it available for download somewhere (or per email)? I have a PDF of the manual for the APR24 machine. If interested on it, please send me an email to my address below. Regards, Nelson (nelson.rodriguez@...) Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #26 From: toro Date: Sun Aug 3, 2003 7:40 pm Subject: Re: Manual toro3stream Offline Send Email I would love a APR-5000 manual - however, I have heard that it is several hundred pages in binder format incl. schematics and such - if you find one or if the APR24 manual has some interesting tips, let me know! thanks toro Hello, I am looking for a manual for the Sony APR 5000 series. Do somebody have it available for download somewhere (or per email)? I have a PDF of the manual for the APR24 machine. If interested on it, please send me an email to my address below. Regards, Nelson (nelson.rodriguez@...) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #27 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 3, 2003 8:33 pm Subject: Re: Manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Some of the cards are the same, but the APR24 manual I have is a shadow of the APR5003V manual. SOMEDAY, what I will do--an it's probably two years out--is collate the several manuals and updates that I've accumulated, making the definitive single manual. Scan it, and publish it as a CD-R. It will not be web-able for many years. I expect it to run well over 100MB hopefully it will fit on a CD. Depends on how much I crunch the drawings. Also a tradeoff between time and space. Cheers, Richard At 07:40 PM 8/3/2003 -0400, you wrote: I would love a APR-5000 manual - however, I have heard that it is several hundred pages in binder format incl. schematics and such - if you find one or if the APR24 manual has some interesting tips, let me know! thanks toro Hello, I am looking for a manual for the Sony APR 5000 series. Do somebody have it available for download somewhere (or per email)? I have a PDF of the manual for the APR24 machine. If interested on it, please send me an email to my address below. Regards, Nelson (nelson.rodriguez@...) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #28 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:18 pm Subject: APR5kX group bae_steve Offline Send Email Hi all, I'm finally able to access the archives and have read your messages. Hi, Scott. I'm currently an independent contractor w/ Randy Blevins @ Blevins Audio Exchance (blevinsaudio.com) in Nashville, Tn. Before this, I was independent from 1992 to 2000. Prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. w/ Wash. Pro. Syst's (1990- 1992), and prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. for MCI/Sony. I currently own an APR5k3 and all versions of the manuals, and software. I also have all tech memo's (my hand written original, the factory issued, and Sony re-issued), my field service notes etc.,etc. I hope I can be of help to the group. Best Regards, Steve Sadler Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #29 From: loopers-delight@... Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:19 pm Subject: Re: APR5kX group loopers-delight@... Send Email ************************************** * Looper's Delight Mailing List * * ------------- * * Submission Rejected Notice * ************************************** This is an automatically generated rejection notice. You are not allowed to post to Looper's Delight because you are not a subscriber to the list. Only subscribers may post. If you would like to subscribe, please follow the directions below. We are sorry we've had to implement this policy, but it is necessary to prevent the list from getting spammed. Information on subscribing/unsubscribing to the Looper's Delight list can be found on this website: http://www.loopers-delight.com/list/LoopList.html The main website for Looper's Delight is here: http://www.loopers-delight.com ************************************************ Instructions for using the subscription server ************************************************ To subscribe to Looper's Delight, send email to: Loopers-Delight-request@... with the word subscribe in the subject AND the body of the message. Do not put anything else in the body of the message! No sig files, no chit-chat, nothing. Your mail should look like this: *************************************************** To: Loopers-Delight-request@... From: you@... Subject: subscribe subscribe *************************************************** To unsubscribe from the mailing list, do the same, except use the word unsubscribe. It looks like this: *************************************************** To: Loopers-Delight-request@... From: you@... Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe *************************************************** Digest version If you want to subscribe to the digest version of Looper's Delight, send the request to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@.... The subscribe/unsubscribe mail should look the same as above. Once you have subscribed, you can post a message to Looper's Delight by sending it to: Loopers-Delight@... thanks, kim listmanager@... -- Hi all, I'm finally able to access the archives and have read your messages. Hi, Scott. I'm currently an independent contractor w/ Randy Blevins @ Blevins Audio Exchance (blevinsaudio.com) in Nashville, Tn. Before this, I was independent from 1992 to 2000. Prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. w/ Wash. Pro. Syst's (1990- 1992), and prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. for MCI/Sony. I currently own an APR5k3 and all versions of the manuals, and software. I also have all tech memo's (my hand written original, the factory issued, and Sony re-issued), my field service notes etc.,etc. I hope I can be of help to the group. Best Regards, Steve Sadler To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #30 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:39 pm Subject: Loopers delight bae_steve Offline Send Email I don't know what this is or if it followed my post to the group, but I've just purged my computer (w/ Norton) and I'm posting this to see if It's following me. The Group firewall caught it the first time, but I'd check your computers just to be safe. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #31 From: loopers-delight@... Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:40 pm Subject: Re: Loopers delight loopers-delight@... Send Email ************************************** * Looper's Delight Mailing List * * ------------- * * Submission Rejected Notice * ************************************** This is an automatically generated rejection notice. You are not allowed to post to Looper's Delight because you are not a subscriber to the list. Only subscribers may post. If you would like to subscribe, please follow the directions below. We are sorry we've had to implement this policy, but it is necessary to prevent the list from getting spammed. Information on subscribing/unsubscribing to the Looper's Delight list can be found on this website: http://www.loopers-delight.com/list/LoopList.html The main website for Looper's Delight is here: http://www.loopers-delight.com ************************************************ Instructions for using the subscription server ************************************************ To subscribe to Looper's Delight, send email to: Loopers-Delight-request@... with the word subscribe in the subject AND the body of the message. Do not put anything else in the body of the message! No sig files, no chit-chat, nothing. Your mail should look like this: *************************************************** To: Loopers-Delight-request@... From: you@... Subject: subscribe subscribe *************************************************** To unsubscribe from the mailing list, do the same, except use the word unsubscribe. It looks like this: *************************************************** To: Loopers-Delight-request@... From: you@... Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe *************************************************** Digest version If you want to subscribe to the digest version of Looper's Delight, send the request to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@.... The subscribe/unsubscribe mail should look the same as above. Once you have subscribed, you can post a message to Looper's Delight by sending it to: Loopers-Delight@... thanks, kim listmanager@... -- I don't know what this is or if it followed my post to the group, but I've just purged my computer (w/ Norton) and I'm posting this to see if It's following me. The Group firewall caught it the first time, but I'd check your computers just to be safe. SS To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #32 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:41 pm Subject: Re: APR5kX group richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Steve, That is very generous! All the help is appreciated. Cheers, Richard At 12:18 AM 8/25/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, I'm finally able to access the archives and have read your >messages. Hi, Scott. I'm currently an independent contractor w/ >Randy Blevins @ Blevins Audio Exchance (blevinsaudio.com) in >Nashville, Tn. Before this, I was independent from 1992 to 2000. >Prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. w/ Wash. Pro. Syst's (1990- >1992), and prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. for MCI/Sony. > >I currently own an APR5k3 and all versions of the manuals, and >software. I also have all tech memo's (my hand written original, the >factory issued, and Sony re-issued), my field service notes etc.,etc. > >I hope I can be of help to the group. > >Best Regards, Steve Sadler > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #33 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:47 pm Subject: Re: Loopers delight richardlhess Offline Send Email It's not dangerous...but I have unsubscribed Loopers Delight since it appears to be a mailing list. Cheers, Richard At 12:39 AM 8/25/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I don't know what this is or if it followed my post to the group, but >I've just purged my computer (w/ Norton) and I'm posting this to see >if It's following me. The Group firewall caught it the first time, >but I'd check your computers just to be safe. SS > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #34 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:35 pm Subject: Loopers delight bae_steve Offline Send Email I've run a complete scan & found nothing. I've posted to 3 other groups and no Looper follow-up. Is this something to this site only? SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #35 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:50 pm Subject: Re: Loopers delight richardlhess Offline Send Email Yes... Somehow, that email address came in a few days ago wanting to be subscribed. It is the posting address to another mailing list, apparently. It is nothing to worry about. I have disabled attachments on the SONY_APR mailing list. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #36 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:56 pm Subject: RE: APR5kX group ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I remember you well, Steve. Welcome to the club...! -----Original Message----- From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR5kX group Hi all, I'm finally able to access the archives and have read your messages. Hi, Scott. I'm currently an independent contractor w/ Randy Blevins @ Blevins Audio Exchance (blevinsaudio.com) in Nashville, Tn. Before this, I was independent from 1992 to 2000. Prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. w/ Wash. Pro. Syst's (1990- 1992), and prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. for MCI/Sony. I currently own an APR5k3 and all versions of the manuals, and software. I also have all tech memo's (my hand written original, the factory issued, and Sony re-issued), my field service notes etc.,etc. I hope I can be of help to the group. Best Regards, Steve Sadler Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #37 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:06 pm Subject: RE: APR5kX group ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I forgot to mention that I still, on behalf of others, do a fair bit of business with Blevins Audio, and have for years. It seems factory alumni never die or fade away... or give up the manuals. We DO get older though. I have the MXP-2000/3000 set as well as most of the JH-110/24 series of recorder manuals, and some rare spares like reeling motor brushes. Somehow I missed having the APR manuals. A pity too, since nearly everyone on this list needs one. Since you can about buy an APR-5000 on ebay for what a manual costs from SONY, the members here could likely support you.... ! -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips [mailto:scottp@...] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:57 PM To: 'sony_apr@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR5kX group I remember you well, Steve. Welcome to the club...! -----Original Message----- From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR5kX group Hi all, I'm finally able to access the archives and have read your messages. Hi, Scott. I'm currently an independent contractor w/ Randy Blevins @ Blevins Audio Exchance (blevinsaudio.com) in Nashville, Tn. Before this, I was independent from 1992 to 2000. Prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. w/ Wash. Pro. Syst's (1990- 1992), and prior to that I was Senior Service Eng. for MCI/Sony. I currently own an APR5k3 and all versions of the manuals, and software. I also have all tech memo's (my hand written original, the factory issued, and Sony re-issued), my field service notes etc.,etc. I hope I can be of help to the group. Best Regards, Steve Sadler Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259538.3760361.5018013.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050175 63:HM/A=1712983/R=0/SIG=11u38u3s2/* http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/hit?page=1 374-105951838331032> click here < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=259538.3760361.5018013.1261774/D=egroupmai l/S=:HM/A=1712983/rand=130613415> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #38 From: "bae_steve" Date: Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:39 pm Subject: APR manuals bae_steve Offline Send Email We're considering making photocopies of manuals made for this group. If you're interested, please email me @ mcijh@... w/ your model, S/N, Date, etc. We want to make sure our copies include all vintages and models. If you could include the circuit board numbers as well, that would be helpful. When we find out the orders -v- cost, I'll let you know the price. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #39 From: David Ollard Date: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:14 am Subject: APR 5003V for sale davidollard Online Now Send Email Hi gang! Well, I guess I'm just chicken, 'cos I've decided to stick with my Ampexes, for which spare parts (and manuals!) are easy to come by. My APR5003V is running just fine, now that I've pushed in a plug that had come loose and was stopping the reel motors from working. I bought it a year or so ago for $375, and am offering it at the same price to the list members. Since it will be a lot of work to pack it up for shipping, in the first instance I am offering it ONLY TO SOMEONE WHO CAN COLLECT IT IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. Please email me off-list if you are local and interested. Only if I get no takers locally, will I then offer it to anyone in the States (but with a charge on top of the shipping cost for packing it up securely - I think that is fair). Cheers David Ollard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #40 From: David Ollard Date: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:20 am Subject: APR 5003V manual for sale davidollard Online Now Send Email Hello again! I just remembered that I recently got hold of a BRAND NEW MINT CONDITION APR500x manual, in amongst some Ampex manuals. Original Sony manual, not a copy. I can see why people aren't that keen to copy it - it is huge, with lots of pullouts etc, and many drawings that would probably not copy well. I really does look as if it has never been used. I'm offering this to the list members for $125 plus shipping. First come first served - again, please ping me off-list. Regards David Ollard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #41 From: "tapenthu" Date: Tue Sep 2, 2003 3:35 pm Subject: 7" Reel Hold downs. tapenthu Offline Send Email Hello: I'am the proud owner of an APR-5003V recently obtained on ebay. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to use as reel hold downs for 7" reels? I see someone is selling homemade rubber pressure clamps that look like they may work. I'am also seeking a manual for this wonderful machine. Thanks for any responses! Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #42 From: Date: Tue Sep 2, 2003 7:01 pm Subject: Re: 7" Reel Hold downs. richardlhess Offline Send Email The Ampex push-on NAB hub adapters also work well with 7" reels and don't offer any play. If you're running the machine horizontal, I generally don't use clamps on 7" reels. I do use library wind (touch the jog wheel during fast wind/rewind). Cheers, Richard tapenthu said: > Hello: I'am the proud owner of an APR-5003V recently obtained on ebay. > Does anyone have any suggestions on what to use as reel hold downs > for 7" reels? I see someone is selling homemade rubber pressure > clamps that look like they may work. I'am also seeking a manual for > this wonderful machine. Thanks for any responses! > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #43 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Sep 2, 2003 7:57 pm Subject: Re: 7" Reel Hold downs. bae_steve Offline Send Email Ar'n't the NAB Reel locks on the machine? You just take them off and put them on top of the smaller reels. Remove the rubber 'metal reel adapters' for plastic reels. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #44 From: David Ollard Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:01 am Subject: APR 5003V for sale - will ship davidollard Online Now Send Email Well, the manual went real quick.... I got no local Orange County takers for the machine, so now I am prepared to ship. Some further information has come to light now that I've played around with it some more, and I have identified some problems with it. I won't go into the details here, but it unless you have just simple record and replay needs, then you may prefer to think of it as a parts machine. I've found a way to reduce the price to $225 + shipping. Email me off-list with your phone number if you may be interested, and I'll tell you more about the machine. Regards David ------------------------------ David Ollard wrote: Hi gang! Well, I guess I'm just chicken, 'cos I've decided to stick with my Ampexes, for which spare parts (and manuals!) are easy to come by. My APR5003V is running just fine, now that I've pushed in a plug that had come loose and was stopping the reel motors from working. I bought it a year or so ago for $375, and am offering it at the same price to the list members. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #45 From: "bae_steve" Date: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:39 am Subject: Re: APR 5003V for sale - will ship bae_steve Offline Send Email Hi all, I bought the machine from David and am very happy w/ it. It is an APR 5003, not a "V". Half the switches on the keypad didn't work, The Time Code channel card has problems, and Ch. 2 on the monitor was summing to channel 1, causing ch. 1 select audio to be doubled while ch. 2 had very low level. The machine is #54 in the first lot of the 2nd series of machines (S/N 20054 ('86C)). I also own S/N 20134 (86D), (#34 in the 2nd lot). I swapped keypads, and TC ch. cards, removed a piece of wire strand from the ACM board, and now have the machine fully functional. The TC channel and Keypad repairs are not major. I love buying $9,000.00 machines for $271.00, shipping included. I hope the RM-5010 was in as good condition. I did a mix from an MCI JH16-24 to it, and then chased it to the 24 trk. It sounds excellent, and all TC and Sync functions work perfectly, including offset capture and bit bump. From a dead stop, it achieves lock in under 3 sec.'s. Regards, Steve Sadler Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #46 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003V for sale - will ship richardlhess Offline Send Email At 07:39 AM 10/23/2003 +0000, you wrote: >I hope the >RM-5010 was in as good condition. It was, but, honestly, I haven't tried it as my two APRs are near my workstation and I use the remotes more for the Otari and the Studer. I didn't want to pass up having one, however. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #47 From: David Ollard Date: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:04 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003V for sale - will ship davidollard Online Now Send Email Thanks for the compliments from Steve and Richard about my machine and the remote respectively. I'm really glad it has gone to a good home. Thanks to Richard for putting together this list, which directly helped me to place the machine in good hands. I'll unsubscribe now, and stick with the Ampex list, where I am much more comfortable technologically! Regards to all, and siyonara David Ollard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #48 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 11:42 am Subject: APR 24 bae_steve Offline Send Email Richard, you should open this group up to APR 24 users as well; It's basically the same machine. Also, a good source for motor, rollers, ceramic lifters, etc. are my friends at AMP Services, Tom and Chris Rappolt, in WPB, Fla. = 800-826-0601. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #49 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:31 pm Subject: This list is now open to APR-24 discussions as well richardlhess Offline Send Email I guess the title says it all! Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #50 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:47 am Subject: Nice looking 5003 on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email I haven't emailed the seller, but it looks like a used equipment dealer in Hartford CT. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2967187075 Been up for 6 of 10 days with no bids. Starts at $241. Enjoy! Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #51 From: newmedia@... Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:25 am Subject: Re: Nice looking 5003 on eBay newmedia@... Send Email Richard: Yes and with TIMECODE!! Speaking of timecode . . . has anyone had experience controlling a 5003 (or 3402) with the Adams Smith Zeta 3? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #52 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:44 am Subject: Re: Nice looking 5003 on eBay bae_steve Offline Send Email There's nothing to it. However, neither of these machines require an external synchronizer, it's built in. They'll sync to a casette deck as long as they receive T.C. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #53 From: newmedia@... Date: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:16 am Subject: Re: Nice looking 5003 on eBay newmedia@... Send Email SS: > There's nothing to it. Tell me more (I've got 2x PCM-3402's and 1x 3202) . . . which I'm trying to make function as sync'ed extra tracks to some Otari MTR 12's. The Zeta 3 seems happy to control the 3402's via parallel (if I could only find some parallel cables) and, as of software release 3.70, seems to be ready to operate in serial mode (for one deck) although I apparently need to pretend that the 3402 is a BVU-950 (or possibly a PCM-7030/50). > They'll sync to a casette deck as long as they receive T.C. The edit/sync configs in the 3402 docs show hook ups with "Tributary" 9-pin, word-clock and digital I/O. What's the setup to sync them to to a TC-only system? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #54 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:05 pm Subject: Re: Nice looking 5003 on eBay bae_steve Offline Send Email I havn't even thaught about a pcm3402 or 3202 in many years. I have manuals in my warehouse, but let me see tomarrow if I have any here. Basically the internal synchronizer will "chase" any time code. If you don't have the manual to wire the serial or parallel ports, let me know. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #55 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 8:44 am Subject: Re: Adams-Smith Zeta 3 (was Nice looking 5003 on eBay) newmedia@... Send Email SS: Thanks -- I have full docs on the PCM-3402 and operating partials on the 3202 . . . so no need to rummage in the warehouse! My questions were more about experience using the Zeta 3 with these machines, so accordingly, I've changed the title. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #56 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:14 pm Subject: Ebay bae_steve Offline Send Email Just to let you "guys" know, so we don't bid against each other: I'm going by the name of "jeeptek" on Ebay. I'm currently high bidder on a 1990 APR 5k3. Keep in mind I was senior service eng. for the factory in Ftl. If I can be of help, please don't hesitate. Regards, SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #57 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:21 pm Subject: Re: Ebay richardlhess Offline Send Email You need esnipe.com . I was looking at it when it was $305--it's jumped up a bit with four days to go, and it needs service. Good luck with it. I may be getting a few more machines--although I'm not sure if I'll have any for sale...but I may also be getting some parts as well. I've become a magnet for APR stuff . Cheers, Richard At 09:14 PM 2/14/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Just to let you "guys" know, so we don't bid against each other: I'm >going by the name of "jeeptek" on Ebay. I'm currently high bidder on >a 1990 APR 5k3. > >Keep in mind I was senior service eng. for the factory in Ftl. If I >can be of help, please don't hesitate. > >Regards, SS > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #58 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:47 pm Subject: Re: Ebay bae_steve Offline Send Email I got the RM5010 from Birmingham that was on a few days ago (to replace the one you got from my machine :) ). The one I got from Cal. was $250.00, and I rented it out here in Nashville (4 days) for $390.00 last week. It's all good. Best Regards, Steve Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #59 From: "airtrola" Date: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:32 pm Subject: APR switches needed airtrola Offline Send Email HI- I'm searching for transport switches (Rwd, Stop, Play) for an APR-24 multi-track. I believe these are the same switches used in the APR- 5000 2-track. Sony doesn't have these anymore, and the ones currently manufactured by JAE are of a different configuration now (they use LEDs instead of lamps). I was wondering if someone might have any leads to a source for these switches (maybe a post house with some old APR parts lying around?). I would also love to find someone who repairs the surface-mounted component audio cards used in the APR-24... :} Thanks, Scott Holderman ==================== recordingcentral.com ==================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #60 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:59 pm Subject: Re: APR switches needed bae_steve Offline Send Email Sorry Scott I don't have any of the switches and don't know where to find them. I have two channel cards from a client w/ surface mounts that I can't repair at the moment. I priced an SMT solder station today and it was over $1,000.00. I still plan to get one at some point. I'll keep your address and let you know if I find any switches, or get the solder station. Regards, Steve Sadler Reply | Messages in this Topic (2) Messages: Show Message Summaries (Group by Topic) Sort by Date #61 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:43 pm Subject: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members richardlhess Offline Send Email We've had three new users sign up this week: WELCOME! I have now decided that I'm totally insane. I now own about 18 APR-5000s...with saving a big haul of them from the dumpster in NYC a few weeks ago. I am seriously considering turning some of these machines into a four-channel machine as I don't really like the Otari MTR-12/4 that I have for the purpose. Not that it's a horrid machine, it's just the setup is horrid and no memory is horrid, and it's not as smooth overall as the APR. The Studer A810s are a bit smoother than the APR, but not as easy to interchange heads on. The basic architecture of the audio system looks like it is similar to the APR-24 (which, if I didn't announce it is also a valid topic on this list). But it seems the software is hard-coded in the APR-5003V to expect audio as CH 1 and CH 2 and Timecode as CH 3. I'd love to run four audio channels off one ailgnment panel. Failing that, I'll just use two machines and two alignment panels. ANy thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #62 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:00 pm Subject: RE: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Truly you are a maniac.... my kind of guy ! Were you thinking to get JRF to make up a headstack from a 1/2" 2-track stack ? Steve S. , would this be an interesting kludge or what ? -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:44 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members We've had three new users sign up this week: WELCOME! I have now decided that I'm totally insane. I now own about 18 APR-5000s...with saving a big haul of them from the dumpster in NYC a few weeks ago. I am seriously considering turning some of these machines into a four-channel machine as I don't really like the Otari MTR-12/4 that I have for the purpose. Not that it's a horrid machine, it's just the setup is horrid and no memory is horrid, and it's not as smooth overall as the APR. The Studer A810s are a bit smoother than the APR, but not as easy to interchange heads on. The basic architecture of the audio system looks like it is similar to the APR-24 (which, if I didn't announce it is also a valid topic on this list). But it seems the software is hard-coded in the APR-5003V to expect audio as CH 1 and CH 2 and Timecode as CH 3. I'd love to run four audio channels off one ailgnment panel. Failing that, I'll just use two machines and two alignment panels. ANy thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #63 From: HppyEndng@... Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:57 pm Subject: Re: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members HppyEndng@... Send Email In a message dated 3/25/2004 3:46:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, lists@... writes: I now own about 18 APR-5000s...with saving a big haul of them from the dumpster in NYC a few weeks ago. uh, interested in parting with one? Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #64 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:17 pm Subject: RE: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ....this wouldn't have been near NBC would it? I remember delivering a passel of these things to them back when they were new items...?? -----Original Message----- From: HppyEndng@... [mailto:HppyEndng@...] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:57 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members In a message dated 3/25/2004 3:46:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, lists@... writes: I now own about 18 APR-5000s...with saving a big haul of them from the dumpster in NYC a few weeks ago. uh, interested in parting with one? Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #65 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:41 pm Subject: RE: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members richardlhess Offline Send Email I probably shouldn't say where they came from, but they were definitely dumpster-bound...but it wasn't NBC... I'm sorry, at this point I actually haven't seen the ones in the NJ Storage locker. I don't think they're all in great shape. It will be six months or so before I can even think about letting one go. I may be in a better position for a few parts. Here's what I'm thinking for the four-channel machine: Here is what I'm thinking for my head stack complement: What I have now: 1/4" mono FT E/R/P (HS) 1/4" NAB Stereo E/R/P timecode (2 HS, 1 LS) 1/4" DIN Stereo E/R/P (HS) 1/4" Stereo: 1/4 track & 8-track These go on my two APR-5003Vs Here's what I'm thinking of adding: 1/4" 3-channel NAB Cart and TOMCat Cart 1/4" 4-channel 8-track play and 200 mil mono play perhaps (for paper tapes) 1/4" 4-channel 4-track play (keeping this separate as this would be the most-used head to determine track formats on incoming tapes 1/2" 2 & 3 channel playback 1/2" 4 channel E/R/P All of these would basically go on the Frankenony. 3-channel one could also work on either of the stereo machines in the first group. These are all low-volume formats for me, but I need to do them from time to time. I also need a frequency doubler so I can lock the 19,200Hz capstan ref of the APR to the 9,600Hz output of the Otari EC-401 resolver. Anyone have a working one? All this to get the better sound of the APR vs the Otari MTR-12. I suspect I'll be contacting John French at some point for help. I have most of the heads, by the way, thanks mostly to Joe Dundovic--but the 4-channel 1/2-inch heads may need to be bought new from somewhere. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > ....this wouldn't have been near NBC would it? I remember delivering a > passel of these things to them back when they were new items...?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: HppyEndng@... [mailto:HppyEndng@...] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:57 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members > > > In a message dated 3/25/2004 3:46:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, > lists@... writes: > I now own about 18 APR-5000s...with saving a big haul of them from the > dumpster > in NYC a few weeks ago. > uh, interested in parting with one? > Dennis > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #66 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:32 pm Subject: Re: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members bae_steve Offline Send Email Two 5K3's synclocked = 4 trks, 3=6 4=8, 5=10, etc. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #67 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:36 pm Subject: Re: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members bae_steve Offline Send Email Yeah, and I installed them and spent a week or two there setting them up, training the techs, and bloating my expense report. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #68 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:00 am Subject: Re: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:32 PM 3/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Two 5K3's synclocked = 4 trks, 3=6 4=8, 5=10, etc. SS Ahhh, but look at my head track list--it's to PLAY tapes, not record them. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #69 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:36 am Subject: Re: My insanity: A 5004 ? ? and welcome new members ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Yeah, and I installed them and spent a week or two there setting them up, training the techs, and bloating my expense report. SS Yep, and I went up there a few years later to replace the power transformers in every single one of them. One had caught fire,so Sony had to replace them all. We wound up installing thermal fuses in all subsequent machines and writing tech bulletins to modify as many as we could. By the time I got to NY to work on them they were owned by Westwood One. I heard they changed hands yet again later on. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #70 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:00 pm Subject: Hello ladewd Offline Send Email Hi, my name is Cary Altschuler. I used to work at the Ft. Lauderdale factory along with Steve and Scott. I however, elected to stay with Sony for the long haul and was re-located to the Los Angeles area. I retired from Sony about 3 months ago. I have a small supply of assorted APR parts as well as a few PC boards, individual heads and other assemblies. If I can help anybody here, please ask. I have an APR-5003V which I unknowingly bid against Steve for on ebay (my apologies again Steve). In addition, I have the only APR- 16 1" machine ever built. Its good to see a community on the internet dedicated to this fine tape machine. Regards, Cary Altschuler Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #71 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:13 pm Subject: Re: Hello bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, Cary........we may get the whole crew here eventually..:) SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #72 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:09 pm Subject: RE: Hello ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Oh, I've GOT to hear about this machine... !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:01 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Hello Hi, my name is Cary Altschuler. I used to work at the Ft. Lauderdale factory along with Steve and Scott. I however, elected to stay with Sony for the long haul and was re-located to the Los Angeles area. I retired from Sony about 3 months ago. I have a small supply of assorted APR parts as well as a few PC boards, individual heads and other assemblies. If I can help anybody here, please ask. I have an APR-5003V which I unknowingly bid against Steve for on ebay (my apologies again Steve). In addition, I have the only APR- 16 1" machine ever built. Its good to see a community on the internet dedicated to this fine tape machine. Regards, Cary Altschuler _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #73 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:09 pm Subject: RE: Hello ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Hey Cary... been a long time ! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:01 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Hello Hi, my name is Cary Altschuler. I used to work at the Ft. Lauderdale factory along with Steve and Scott. I however, elected to stay with Sony for the long haul and was re-located to the Los Angeles area. I retired from Sony about 3 months ago. I have a small supply of assorted APR parts as well as a few PC boards, individual heads and other assemblies. If I can help anybody here, please ask. I have an APR-5003V which I unknowingly bid against Steve for on ebay (my apologies again Steve). In addition, I have the only APR- 16 1" machine ever built. Its good to see a community on the internet dedicated to this fine tape machine. Regards, Cary Altschuler _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #74 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:11 am Subject: Re: Hello ladewd Offline Send Email HI Scott. Yes it has been a long time! How have you been? What are you doing these days? About the APR-16: It was developed immediately before the ADATs came out. It was originally intended for people doing music for video in small home-like venues. The nice fellows from Japan put a stop to the project when the engineering staff was laid off. In the shuffle, the machine was loaned to a fellow from Uptown for 9 pin testing of the Uptown automation for the MXP series. Sony forgot about it and closed up shop in FL. About a year later, I got a call from Tom Graefe asking me if I wanted an APR. Of course I said yes. I thought it was a 2" and so did Tom. The guy they loaned it to had quit Uptown, and had no need for it since he started using a DAW. He was honest and called Tom to figure out a way to return it to Sony. Thats where I came into the picture. Sony had thrown out my test fixture when we moved to Burbank. Tom knew this and told the guy that I worked for Sony and was willing to drive out to Colorado to get the machine. I drove out there in the company van and took the machine home. I wasn't sure what I'd do with it, but thought I could take care of some customers by having a test fixture in my garage. All the rollers and lifters are obviously 1" and the cabinet is a bit different. The channel cards are laid out in a line across the length of the machine. The power supply is directly under that and runs the length as well, but has the same regulator boards as the 24. It also has XLR connectors! The remote is for 16 channels only and of course is a bit shorter in legnth than the 24, but all the other functions are identical to the 24. There is no way to turn it into a 24 track, but with the proper rollers lifters and heads, it could be rigged up to be a 2" 16 track. That kind of hardware is long gone by now though. The machine looks like it just rolled off the assembly line and has less than 100hrs on it. I'm still not sure what I want to do with it. I may sell it, since I've been using DAW these days as well. We'll see. I wouldn't even know what to ask for it. Good to see you're still in the business! Regards, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > Hey Cary... been a long time ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:01 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Hello > > > Hi, my name is Cary Altschuler. I used to work at the Ft. > Lauderdale factory along with Steve and Scott. I however, elected > to stay with Sony for the long haul and was re-located to the Los > Angeles area. I retired from Sony about 3 months ago. I have a > small supply of assorted APR parts as well as a few PC boards, > individual heads and other assemblies. If I can help anybody here, > please ask. > > I have an APR-5003V which I unknowingly bid against Steve for on > ebay (my apologies again Steve). In addition, I have the only APR- > 16 1" machine ever built. Its good to see a community on the > internet dedicated to this fine tape machine. > > Regards, > Cary Altschuler > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #75 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:29 am Subject: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email I hate to keep repeating myself, Cary, but you should give it to me (for a test fixture) so I can continue to service those fine Sony Multitracks... :) SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #76 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:27 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Folks: Fascinating history!! Can anyone on the list fill in some details about the relationship between the various APR's and the PCM-3202/3402 DASH machines? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #77 From: Scott Phillips Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:45 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think between Steve, Cary, and myself we can flesh that out for you. I was in on the development stages because I managed the QA department and portions of the QC department for all the machines except for the 24 track APR. My department worked with all the prototypes, feeding back bugs and functional problems, did environmental and software testing, etc. Cary, you were Final test tech for all those at one time or another, right? Steve was from the factory service side I believe.... Cary, you are the newbee here, care to stick your neck out first ... :>) ?? _____ From: newmedia@... [mailto:newmedia@...] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. Folks: Fascinating history!! Can anyone on the list fill in some details about the relationship between the various APR's and the PCM-3202/3402 DASH machines? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #78 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:44 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email The APR5KX and the PCM340X are first cousins. One is analog audio, the other is digital audio (DASH format). The transports are basically the same. What else would you like to know? SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #79 From: Scott Phillips Date: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...would that be bastard first cousins... ? -----Original Message----- From: mcijh@... [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. The APR5KX and the PCM340X are first cousins. One is analog audio, the other is digital audio (DASH format). The transports are basically the same. What else would you like to know? SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #80 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:57 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Hello: > What else would you like to know? How about some idea of the timeline, the market reception, the differences between various models (PCM-3202 vs. 3402, etc.), how all this fit into the larger context for all those involved . . . I'm interested in some of the history -- some of the "story," if you'd care to tell it. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #81 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:05 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 trk. ladewd Offline Send Email Well, I can't stick my neck out first if I'm not online ;-). Steve was accurate, the PCM3102 and 3202 are essentially APRs adapted to digital audio. The transports are nearly identical, then you have the heads and audio section... The major difference between the two PCM models is the tape speed. The 3202 was developed because people found cut and splice editing difficult with the 7.5ips speed of the 3102, so the speed was increased to approx 15ips on the 3202. The official procedures for the digital machines required that we actually record a signal on tape, develop the tape with some rather harsh chemicals and examine the tracks under a microscope to ensure the head alignment was correct. Personally, I found that this was largely unnecessary. Its just a tape machine, and aligning the heads electrically would pretty much yield the same results. Its just that the adjustments were a bit more critical. Some of the digital audio processing boards were very dense and almost impossible to troubleshoot. I got lucky a few times, but digital machines were mostly board swap repairs. With the high labor rates that Sony charges for field service it was actually cheaper to replace boards than to spend a day troubleshooting a rather difficult problem. The PCM3X02 was Sony's first foray into the DASH format. While we were slaving (and I do mean slaving) to get these things to work, Sony was developing the PCM3324 multitrack in Japan. All this led up to Sony's best audio product, the PCM3348. When I moved out to LA, I had the pleasure of working on quite a few of these machines. IMO, they are the best designed tape machines out there. (...and I have such little respect for Sony) There were about 100 of these units in the LA area, mostly owned by rental houses. They would literaly bounce these things all over town and they just continued to work, until someone would try and clean the heads with a Q-tip, a disgruntled employee screwed with the head heights or it was simply dropped off a truck. I never felt comfortable working on digital machines, because they offer very little feedback while you're tweaking them. On an analog machine, you would see the effect of an adjustment immediately. On the digital machines, you go through all the adjustments and only find out if its really working properly when all the adjustments are finished and the machine is completely re-assembled. If you screwed up, you had to almost start fom the begining to re-check your work. That being said, these machines were some of the most dependable tape machines ever built. Subsequent digital machines released by Sony (PCM3324S and PCM3348HR), never had the dependability of the original 48. Most customers actually prefered the PCM3348 to the Studer machines. That was never the case with Sony analog machines. As we all know, there's no sense in using tape these days if your recording digitally. 48 track machines can be bought on ebay for as little as $5k. Most of the heads are shot and it'll cost about $35k to replace them. That's why they go for such a low price. Most of them will end up as boat anchors or bait for a coral reef. I imagine the PCM3102 and 3202 are even less in demand and will probably just remain a conversation piece in the years to come. I find it funny, that despite all the effort with digital tape technology, the analog machines have outlasted them. ...and to my ears, they still sound better. Later, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > ...would that be bastard first cousins... ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcijh@a... [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:45 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. > > > The APR5KX and the PCM340X are first cousins. One is analog audio, the > other is digital audio (DASH format). The transports are basically the > same. What else would you like to know? SS > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > web/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1080776720/A=1945637/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http: //www.n > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60178397&partid=4673018> click here > > /S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=603780969> > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #82 From: Scott Phillips Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:47 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I am in complete agreement with Cary on these machines. They were rather odd machines, really only to compete with Mitsubishi x86 machines I think. At least they were smaller. I went to Japan to run QA analysis of the prototypes, and it was not a happy experience for me. I find that the experience with flame-outs on the APR transformers kind of odd. The prototypes went through exhaustive testing for weeks on end at 40 degrees c ambient and after the first couple of prototype PSU's we never had a problem again with them in QA testing. I was really very into the hi-temp testing on the APR's, because the MCI/Sony JH-110 machines that the APR's replaced were very unstable with temperature. I didn't want to see an unstable design get out the door again. The early prototype APR's had bias / erase that drifted with heat like crazy, and QA forced on engineering a number of design changes before production to stop that kind of thing. We were never entirely happy with the software either, but there you have it. You can't have a true constant tension transport unless you measure it on both the supply and takeup sides, (APR's only check one side), so the transport software basically calculates an estimate for the missing data and runs the reel motors accordingly.... mostly right, but some times..... I think the testing of the knock-down units (APR's that were not sources AND assembled from scratch in the USA) was done in Japan, and all the parts, like the transformers, were sourced in Japan. Then the sub-assemblies were shipped to the USA for final assembly and test. Perhaps that was it, or the vendor for the transformer changed.... hummmmm.. same with the PCM machines.... _____ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. Well, I can't stick my neck out first if I'm not online ;-). Steve was accurate, the PCM3102 and 3202 are essentially APRs adapted to digital audio. The transports are nearly identical, then you have the heads and audio section... The major difference between the two PCM models is the tape speed. The 3202 was developed because people found cut and splice editing difficult with the 7.5ips speed of the 3102, so the speed was increased to approx 15ips on the 3202. The official procedures for the digital machines required that we actually record a signal on tape, develop the tape with some rather harsh chemicals and examine the tracks under a microscope to ensure the head alignment was correct. Personally, I found that this was largely unnecessary. Its just a tape machine, and aligning the heads electrically would pretty much yield the same results. Its just that the adjustments were a bit more critical. Some of the digital audio processing boards were very dense and almost impossible to troubleshoot. I got lucky a few times, but digital machines were mostly board swap repairs. With the high labor rates that Sony charges for field service it was actually cheaper to replace boards than to spend a day troubleshooting a rather difficult problem. The PCM3X02 was Sony's first foray into the DASH format. While we were slaving (and I do mean slaving) to get these things to work, Sony was developing the PCM3324 multitrack in Japan. All this led up to Sony's best audio product, the PCM3348. When I moved out to LA, I had the pleasure of working on quite a few of these machines. IMO, they are the best designed tape machines out there. (...and I have such little respect for Sony) There were about 100 of these units in the LA area, mostly owned by rental houses. They would literaly bounce these things all over town and they just continued to work, until someone would try and clean the heads with a Q-tip, a disgruntled employee screwed with the head heights or it was simply dropped off a truck. I never felt comfortable working on digital machines, because they offer very little feedback while you're tweaking them. On an analog machine, you would see the effect of an adjustment immediately. On the digital machines, you go through all the adjustments and only find out if its really working properly when all the adjustments are finished and the machine is completely re-assembled. If you screwed up, you had to almost start fom the begining to re-check your work. That being said, these machines were some of the most dependable tape machines ever built. Subsequent digital machines released by Sony (PCM3324S and PCM3348HR), never had the dependability of the original 48. Most customers actually prefered the PCM3348 to the Studer machines. That was never the case with Sony analog machines. As we all know, there's no sense in using tape these days if your recording digitally. 48 track machines can be bought on ebay for as little as $5k. Most of the heads are shot and it'll cost about $35k to replace them. That's why they go for such a low price. Most of them will end up as boat anchors or bait for a coral reef. I imagine the PCM3102 and 3202 are even less in demand and will probably just remain a conversation piece in the years to come. I find it funny, that despite all the effort with digital tape technology, the analog machines have outlasted them. ...and to my ears, they still sound better. Later, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > ...would that be bastard first cousins... ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcijh@a... [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:45 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. > > > The APR5KX and the PCM340X are first cousins. One is analog audio, the > other is digital audio (DASH format). The transports are basically the > same. What else would you like to know? SS > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > =egroup > web/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1080776720/A=1945637/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http: //www.n > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60178397&partid=4673018> click here > > M=267637.4673018.5833253.1261774/D=egroupweb > /S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=603780969> > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #83 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:11 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. richardlhess Offline Send Email Quoting Scott Phillips : > I am in complete agreement with Cary on these machines. They were rather odd > machines, really only to compete with Mitsubishi x86 machines I think. At > least they were smaller. I went to Japan to run QA analysis of the > prototypes, and it was not a happy experience for me. I guess Mitsubishi and Sony both thought there would be a market for DASH recorders before DAT and continuing for special purposes. Studer made a DASH version of their 820 machine. The analog version of the A820/2CH is probably the finest (and most expensive) 2-track ever made...well, I think it might have gone to 4 track in some incarnations. > We > were never entirely happy with the software either, but there you have it. Funny you should mention that. One pet peeve is that when you switch speeds on all but the latest software versions with the headstack DIP switch in low-speed mode, the speeds jump to the high-speed setting for the particular LED. Cycling power to the machine restores the low-speed setting. The two latest APRs that I have don't work that way! Oddly, though, those machines came out of, I think, Heckinger Video in DC and they were equipped with Evertz Emulators--odd since the APR has dedicated 9-pin control, although I hear that the slewing with the Emulator is better than any 9-pin implementation... ALso, although the manual says that these are 3-channel machines (and speaks of them generically in that regard) the software (at least the latest version with the proper speed change) regards channel 3 as timecode only and does not appear to know whether a timecode or channel card is in slot 3. This is annoying as I had hoped to use one machine for 3-channel reproduction. Now, even 3-channel falls into my "Kludge" dual-machine configuration. Also, the software seems to be unable to go beyond three channels. If the DIP switch in the head that is unassigned next to the other two channel selectors is activated (to provide a binary "4") you get a headstack error (not preset error) on the align panel. I'm assuming that the 1/2-inch head assembly presets cause the transport parameters to change, so I'm not using those numbers (but will with the 1/2-inch assemblies). > You can't have a true constant tension transport unless you measure it on > both the supply and takeup sides, (APR's only check one side), so the > transport software basically calculates an estimate for the missing data and > runs the reel motors accordingly.... mostly right, but some times..... That is open to debate...but I generally concur. There was an article in JAES when MCI introduced the constant-tension machine without sensors saying that the tension can be derived from the rotational speed...or at least that's what I recall. Interestingly, Studer opted for a left-side-only sense in the A807 which was a lower-cost (and more easily built) replacement for the A810. Considering that (they did loosen the spec a small amount on wow and flutter from the A810 to the A807) and the fact that there are only two DACs per channel for play adjust (level and "treble" which is, I think, effectively the same as head gap compensator on the APR), I am now favoring A810s over A807s for my work. Alas, only the A820 in the Studer lineup has headstack memory like the APR. ENough rambling for now. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #84 From: Scott Phillips Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:51 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think the sticky point with 'sensorless' tension is that at all times the software must know what the masses are exactly of the loaded tape (a bit sticky with mixed reel / hub / amount of tape on each reel). so that it can calculate the correct tensions for proper deceleration / acceleration. On MCI JH-series machines I believe this was done in a 'locate' function by having a specific brief deceleration signal sent to the reel motors at about a minute from the locate point, and the software would try to figure out the mass under rotation by the rate of deceleration it measure during the brief pulse of deceleration. If you are trying to synchronize machines, this method of getting the information that direct sensing would have given you easily is awkward at the very best. _____ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:12 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. Quoting Scott Phillips : > I am in complete agreement with Cary on these machines. They were rather odd > machines, really only to compete with Mitsubishi x86 machines I think. At > least they were smaller. I went to Japan to run QA analysis of the > prototypes, and it was not a happy experience for me. I guess Mitsubishi and Sony both thought there would be a market for DASH recorders before DAT and continuing for special purposes. Studer made a DASH version of their 820 machine. The analog version of the A820/2CH is probably the finest (and most expensive) 2-track ever made...well, I think it might have gone to 4 track in some incarnations. > We > were never entirely happy with the software either, but there you have it. Funny you should mention that. One pet peeve is that when you switch speeds on all but the latest software versions with the headstack DIP switch in low-speed mode, the speeds jump to the high-speed setting for the particular LED. Cycling power to the machine restores the low-speed setting. The two latest APRs that I have don't work that way! Oddly, though, those machines came out of, I think, Heckinger Video in DC and they were equipped with Evertz Emulators--odd since the APR has dedicated 9-pin control, although I hear that the slewing with the Emulator is better than any 9-pin implementation... ALso, although the manual says that these are 3-channel machines (and speaks of them generically in that regard) the software (at least the latest version with the proper speed change) regards channel 3 as timecode only and does not appear to know whether a timecode or channel card is in slot 3. This is annoying as I had hoped to use one machine for 3-channel reproduction. Now, even 3-channel falls into my "Kludge" dual-machine configuration. Also, the software seems to be unable to go beyond three channels. If the DIP switch in the head that is unassigned next to the other two channel selectors is activated (to provide a binary "4") you get a headstack error (not preset error) on the align panel. I'm assuming that the 1/2-inch head assembly presets cause the transport parameters to change, so I'm not using those numbers (but will with the 1/2-inch assemblies). > You can't have a true constant tension transport unless you measure it on > both the supply and takeup sides, (APR's only check one side), so the > transport software basically calculates an estimate for the missing data and > runs the reel motors accordingly.... mostly right, but some times..... That is open to debate...but I generally concur. There was an article in JAES when MCI introduced the constant-tension machine without sensors saying that the tension can be derived from the rotational speed...or at least that's what I recall. Interestingly, Studer opted for a left-side-only sense in the A807 which was a lower-cost (and more easily built) replacement for the A810. Considering that (they did loosen the spec a small amount on wow and flutter from the A810 to the A807) and the fact that there are only two DACs per channel for play adjust (level and "treble" which is, I think, effectively the same as head gap compensator on the APR), I am now favoring A810s over A807s for my work. Alas, only the A820 in the Studer lineup has headstack memory like the APR. ENough rambling for now. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #85 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Hello: > Steve was accurate, the PCM3102 and 3202 are essentially > APRs adapted to digital audio. Thanks -- and what about the PCM-3402? Is it a later machine for which there isn't an analog match? Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #86 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:39 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 trk. ladewd Offline Send Email The 3402 was basically the same as the 3202. Almost all the circuitry was the same, but the PC boards were redesigned, renamed, and the circuits were distributed differently. The product was developed and built in Japan. I have only seen one of these out in the field. Again, we threw one out when Sony moved from Cypress, CA to Burbank. In addition, we threw out 1 PCM3324, 3348, APR24, and 3 APR5000's. I was not around when they decided to discard these machines, or I would have tried to put up a fight. They conveniently picked a time when I wasn't in the office. Its beyond belief. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Hello: > > > Steve was accurate, the PCM3102 and 3202 are essentially > > APRs adapted to digital audio. > > Thanks -- and what about the PCM-3402? Is it a later machine for which there > isn't an analog match? > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #87 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:12 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Cary: > The product was developed and built in Japan. So . . . there is no analog tapedeck comparable to the PCM-3402? Btw, I have two of them as well as one PCM-3202 -- any thoughts about the reasons for the "redesign"? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #88 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:10 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 trk. ladewd Offline Send Email Mark, I would have to say it was redesigned for vanity rather than any other particular reason. It does look like a newer design, but my guess is it had to be "designed and made in Japan". Perhaps there were too many American hands involved in the orginal PCM project. There was never another analog 2 track designed by Sony after the APR5000, so there is no "sister" analog machine to the 3402. There was a lot of competitiveness between the design teams in Japan and the US. You wouldn't think they were all part of the same company. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Cary: > > > The product was developed and built in Japan. > > So . . . there is no analog tapedeck comparable to the PCM-3402? > > Btw, I have two of them as well as one PCM-3202 -- any thoughts about the > reasons for the "redesign"? > > Thanks, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #89 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 2:53 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email It sounds to me like you're writing an article to make money off what we know. You'll need a waiver from me if you quote anything I say. If you want to offer me an agreable retainer, I'll tell you anything I know. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #90 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 2:56 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email Cary, make sure "newmedia" pays you royalties on this article. He'll probably use it word for word. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #91 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 3:06 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey Richard, and Scott.......Soooo many things to reply to and soooo little energy left @ 2:00am on Wed. w/ a very early start in the later A.M. But, I'll keep these emails as new and get back to you after Randy leaves town..when I can take a breath. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #92 From: newmedia@... Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 12:59 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email SS: > If you want to offer me an agreable retainer, > I'll tell you anything I know. You sound like an interesting fellow . . . if you know of any place that would actually PAY for obscure historical information about tapedecks that no one has ever seen even fewer have ever used, I suggest that you write that article yourself!! I own 40+ RtoR tapedecks -- 6x Ampexs, 6x Magnecords, 5x Nagras (it was 10x), 5x Otaris, 4x Stellavoxs, 4x HP instrumentation, 4x B&K instrumentation, 3x Sony PCM and various assorted Tascam, Technic as well as a Lyrec FRIDA -- so my curiousity about all this is, alas, something that I had been paying for . . . excessively. I am, since you brought it up, also an amateur historian of technology and I'm very interested in the transition from analog to digital recording -- why people think they did it, what they think they got out of it, how it turned out, what lessons we might learn -- and I bought most of these machines so that I could listen to them and use them . . . so that I might better understand what was involved. Btw, I also own some Moviola and KEM film editors for the same reason. My conclusions? The equipment and the techniques used on them determines the product that gets made on them -- or, if you will, the MEDIUM is absolutely the MESSAGE. Oh, and the people involved often have no clue what happened along the way, nor do they care. And, the exceptions are truly fascinating people. Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #93 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 1:14 pm Subject: APR Flameout @ NBC ladewd Offline Send Email Scott, I seem to remember (its a bit foggy) that the manufacturer of the xformers did change somewhere in the production run of the APR. These NBC machines were from the original production run though, not the subsequent knockdown runs. While it appeared to have been a one time failure, a machine which actually flames is pretty serious. Its even more serious when the customer is NBC. The flame out was bad enough to cause the smoke detectors to go off at NBC. We replaced the unit and got the damaged one back from them. It looked quite charred. Both reel motors were black, the rubber on the turntables was melted and the top cosmetic panel was blackened as well. The plastic cover on the transport panel was melted and the xformer looked like it was barbecued. All the PCB's were toast. From what we saw, it looked like the problem started in the power supply. We suspected the temperatures within the supply caused the varnish to burn off the xformer windings and the paper on the xformers to burn. We were able to somewhat duplicate the problem by running the power supply on a passive load in the environmental chamber for about a week. While the xformer never actually caught fire, the paper showed some browning. We did present it with a slightly higher load than the APR draws, because we were trying to torture it. The odd thing was these supplies were tested both outside and inside of the machine. Each had the same results. The one variable we couldn't determine on the actual burned machine, was whether or not the P/S fan had failed, since it was burned beyond recognition. I can't remember, for sure, if we tried the test with the fan unplugged, but I think we tried it both ways. I've seen the results of fan failure before, and it generally just caused the P/S to fail and shut down, not catch fire. Fortunately, this is the only known case of a catastrophic failure in the APR5000 series. Sony quickly replaced all the xformers and installed thermal fuses in as many machines as they could. The damaged NBC machine had been left on constantly, probably for as long as a couple of years. Other than large frame mixing consoles, I personally never subscribed to the "leave it on" mentality for tape machines. Especially for the APR5000 series which tended to run very hot. I also never really understood Rod Stephen's class A RMD board design either. It would run as hot in STOP as it did in REW or FF. I find the machine comforting on cold winter mornings . Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #94 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 1:27 pm Subject: Re: APR Flameout @ NBC / heat / fans richardlhess Offline Send Email Quoting ladewd : > Other than large frame mixing consoles, I personally never > subscribed to the "leave it on" mentality for tape machines. > Especially for the APR5000 series which tended to run very hot. > > I also never really understood Rod Stephen's class A RMD board > design either. It would run as hot in STOP as it did in REW or FF. > I find the machine comforting on cold winter mornings . I "grew up" at ABC-TV in NYC (1974-1981) and there, of course, everything was left on 24/7--for the most part. It's amazing how many things failed after power was restored in the 1977 blackout. I keep my tape machines off when not using them--if for no other reason as the air conditioning can't keep up in my home studio--which wasn't originally built as a studio. I find the APR5000s run as hot or hotter with the fans as the Studer A810s do without. The Studer A807 runs rather cool, actually. I HATE the noise of the fans in the APR, but I understand they are a necessity. Who figured out how to mount the power supply--am I missing something, or is it the work of the devil to remove? Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #95 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 5:25 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 16 trk. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Boy, was that ever true !!! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 trk. Mark, I would have to say it was redesigned for vanity rather than any other particular reason. It does look like a newer design, but my guess is it had to be "designed and made in Japan". Perhaps there were too many American hands involved in the orginal PCM project. There was never another analog 2 track designed by Sony after the APR5000, so there is no "sister" analog machine to the 3402. There was a lot of competitiveness between the design teams in Japan and the US. You wouldn't think they were all part of the same company. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Cary: > > > The product was developed and built in Japan. > > So . . . there is no analog tapedeck comparable to the PCM-3402? > > Btw, I have two of them as well as one PCM-3202 -- any thoughts about the > reasons for the "redesign"? > > Thanks, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #96 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 5:43 pm Subject: RE: APR Flameout @ NBC ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email That is comforting, at least a bit. As much torture as we did to the design before production I figured the transformer issue would have come up then. I remember having these things pretty heavily instrumented for temperature during the extended environmental testing, as I also felt the machine ran quite warm. However, it was also intended to be what for the time was a very compact design, and not much room for airflow. I recall some of the first PSU designs... and there was 'much smoke and flames' at the time. Even engineering was pretty durn aware how warm these were... but in the final designs QA tested, we couldn't get them to fail unless the fan did, and they just shut down like they were supposed to. I wonder what happened to that one unit. We tried in the QA tests to make it inhale a bunch of dust to make it even hotter, but it didn't do much to it.... There was even an attempt at a convection cooled supply... but you can imagine the first test results...after the smoke cleared, that is... :>) -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:14 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR Flameout @ NBC Scott, I seem to remember (its a bit foggy) that the manufacturer of the xformers did change somewhere in the production run of the APR. These NBC machines were from the original production run though, not the subsequent knockdown runs. While it appeared to have been a one time failure, a machine which actually flames is pretty serious. Its even more serious when the customer is NBC. The flame out was bad enough to cause the smoke detectors to go off at NBC. We replaced the unit and got the damaged one back from them. It looked quite charred. Both reel motors were black, the rubber on the turntables was melted and the top cosmetic panel was blackened as well. The plastic cover on the transport panel was melted and the xformer looked like it was barbecued. All the PCB's were toast. From what we saw, it looked like the problem started in the power supply. We suspected the temperatures within the supply caused the varnish to burn off the xformer windings and the paper on the xformers to burn. We were able to somewhat duplicate the problem by running the power supply on a passive load in the environmental chamber for about a week. While the xformer never actually caught fire, the paper showed some browning. We did present it with a slightly higher load than the APR draws, because we were trying to torture it. The odd thing was these supplies were tested both outside and inside of the machine. Each had the same results. The one variable we couldn't determine on the actual burned machine, was whether or not the P/S fan had failed, since it was burned beyond recognition. I can't remember, for sure, if we tried the test with the fan unplugged, but I think we tried it both ways. I've seen the results of fan failure before, and it generally just caused the P/S to fail and shut down, not catch fire. Fortunately, this is the only known case of a catastrophic failure in the APR5000 series. Sony quickly replaced all the xformers and installed thermal fuses in as many machines as they could. The damaged NBC machine had been left on constantly, probably for as long as a couple of years. Other than large frame mixing consoles, I personally never subscribed to the "leave it on" mentality for tape machines. Especially for the APR5000 series which tended to run very hot. I also never really understood Rod Stephen's class A RMD board design either. It would run as hot in STOP as it did in REW or FF. I find the machine comforting on cold winter mornings . Cary _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #97 From: newmedia@... Date: Thu Apr 1, 2004 1:07 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Scott/Cary: Thanks for your insights -- it seems Sony was 100% committed to PCM-based recording by this point and they probably would have made out a marketing chart for whatever they imagined to be their different customer types. These DASH machines were aimed at the 2-track mixdown/master/archiving studio market, I'd guess, where they believed that the engineers demanded the capability to cut and splice tape -- thus DASH and not DAT -- and could be sold on the benefits of the wider dynamic range of PCM. In order to "impress" these customers that they had moved beyond the analog past and entered the digital future, they proably would have thought another "turn" of the model-crank was helpful . . . thus the "redesign." Perhaps they had some customers in Nashville who requested another feature or two as well and they were trying to be "responsive." In any event, whoever made these marketing decisions probably didn't speak much English . . . so who knows what got lost in translation. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #98 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 9:20 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. bae_steve Offline Send Email Mark, Sorry about the levity; go to http//www.tapeop.com. Get a free subscription. I'm sure Larry Crane would love to print an article (by you) on the very subject of Analog -v- Digital history. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #99 From: newmedia@... Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 4:33 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email SS: Thanks -- I've been a TAPEOP subscriber for quite awhile now, partly in the hope of finding something "thoughtful" or at least "analytical" about these issues. As you've noted, the emphasis is on FREE with these folks. My experience has been that most folks want "tips" and/or "stories" -- especially when they come from someone with a "name." The way I approach these questions probably doesn't have much of an audience . . . but when I finish my research and find the time to write it all up, I might just find out. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #100 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 9:46 am Subject: Customer ladewd Offline Send Email Steve, I recommended you to a guy at tape op yesterday. He has a JH110B and is located in North Carolina. I hope you get the business. He paid $25 for the machine and it sort of works! CA Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #101 From: Scott Phillips Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 10:10 am Subject: RE: Customer ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I don't have any need for business of that sort, but I am also quite well versed on the JH-110 A-C machines as well, if I can be of any assistance. As a favor to some old clients I still care for about 10 of these machines.... it seems a lost art in some minds. I don't charge for it except the actual expenses... I guess it is more a hobby now. I am the director of engineering for a multimedia company in Dallas now, and don't do service work anymore for a living. Actually, yesterday I flew out to a studio in Colorado to bail out an old client with a JH-24 that had crashed and burned. 4 hours on a plane to go and come back the same day. The session couldn't continue without the repair.`Sometimes you just wish people would not screw around with the equipment themselves. This guy, in a fit of card swapping, burned one of the audio PSU fuses. Despite the statements that they had checked all the fuses. So I flew 1200 miles to find and change a fuse. Go figure.... with my short term flight arrangements, this fuse cost the client $1200 for the flight and $.85 for the fuse. I almost charged them for my time out of frustration for the emergency fire drill, but in the end I just didn't have the heart to do it. The look of embarrassment on the face of the recording 'engineer' when I handed him the fuse was worth it.... :>) Duuuuhhhhhh ! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:47 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Customer Steve, I recommended you to a guy at tape op yesterday. He has a JH110B and is located in North Carolina. I hope you get the business. He paid $25 for the machine and it sort of works! CA Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #102 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 11:08 am Subject: P/S Removal ladewd Offline Send Email It *is* the work of the devil to remove the power supply. If you have one of those handy little stands, its easier. You can spin the machine upside down quite easily. The easiest way is to 1. Remove the bottom panel 2. Lower the back panel 3. Unplug the cables on the rear of the supply. 4. Lower the front panel and remove the 4 mounting screws. 5. Slowly slide the supply out stopping about 1/2 way out. 6. Remove the two cables attached to the supply (Capstan reference and power). 7. Slide the supply the rest of the way out. Scott, Steve, am I missing anything? Its been awhile. If you don't have a stand, this is a bit harder to do. You can get the supply out without taking the bottom panel off, but its much harder to plug the cables back in this way. The big drawback to the design, is its virtually impossible to run the power supply outside of the machine for troubleshooting purposes. In the factory, I had a set of extension cables which allowed me to run the supply while it was still connected to the machine. Those cables are long gone. I still think I have the passive load that we used to torture test the power supply after the NBC burnout, but its lacking the proper connectors to actually make it useful. When Sony took over MCI, the first thing they did was to make the products as hard as possible to service. I'm sure this was not a consious decision, but the Japanese designers never thought much about ease of service. Building products cheaper was their goal. Even their higher priced items such as the Oxford R3 and the DMXR100 take more time to disassemble than to troubleshoot and fix. I guess all manufacturers are guilty of this. Has anyone ever tried to fix a damn Mackie? These days, most products are built like this. It has certainly made Sony Service a high yield profit center. This is another beef I have with Sony. Service should be a break even business for a manufacturer, not a profit center. Sony charges customers $180 an hour with a 4 hour minimum for field service. They would also mark up part prices as much as 1000%. This pretty much eliminated most modest recording studios from their customer list. Especially APR owners. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #103 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 11:25 am Subject: Service ladewd Offline Send Email Scott, I know what you mean. I can't really make a living servicing recording equipment anymore due to diminishing tape machine and console use. I usually undercharge my customers and do many favors. I do this because I care. Its an attitude that is left over from the MCI/SPPC days. This is something that Sony lost somewhere down the line. To be fair, its not just Sony that has lost interest in serving its customers, but its every damn manufacturer. Welcome to the new millenium. I'll keep that in mind and will refer anyone in the Teas area to you if you'd like. I personally would not fly anywhere to fix a machine unless it was worth my while. I got a call from Merle Haggard's studio a few weeks ago, and pretty much told them to call Sony. He had a problem with an old PCM3324. Sony never replaced me, so there was no one at the service center who could fix the machine. My friend wound up having a part in his garage which helped them, but even he wouldn't fly up to northern CA to service the machine. At least here in LA, I can work a bit locally. I still kept my better customers, but business is slow. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #104 From: Scott Phillips Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 12:06 pm Subject: RE: P/S Removal ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You have got that right. One thing is to be said for the old JH series recorders and mixers from the MCI days.... you could service the durn things. The power supplies came out easily, and could be run with the covers off while still connected to the recorder. The APR's.... weeeeeelllll..... you said it yourself, the work of the devil !! _____ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:08 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] P/S Removal It *is* the work of the devil to remove the power supply. If you have one of those handy little stands, its easier. You can spin the machine upside down quite easily. The easiest way is to 1. Remove the bottom panel 2. Lower the back panel 3. Unplug the cables on the rear of the supply. 4. Lower the front panel and remove the 4 mounting screws. 5. Slowly slide the supply out stopping about 1/2 way out. 6. Remove the two cables attached to the supply (Capstan reference and power). 7. Slide the supply the rest of the way out. Scott, Steve, am I missing anything? Its been awhile. If you don't have a stand, this is a bit harder to do. You can get the supply out without taking the bottom panel off, but its much harder to plug the cables back in this way. The big drawback to the design, is its virtually impossible to run the power supply outside of the machine for troubleshooting purposes. In the factory, I had a set of extension cables which allowed me to run the supply while it was still connected to the machine. Those cables are long gone. I still think I have the passive load that we used to torture test the power supply after the NBC burnout, but its lacking the proper connectors to actually make it useful. When Sony took over MCI, the first thing they did was to make the products as hard as possible to service. I'm sure this was not a consious decision, but the Japanese designers never thought much about ease of service. Building products cheaper was their goal. Even their higher priced items such as the Oxford R3 and the DMXR100 take more time to disassemble than to troubleshoot and fix. I guess all manufacturers are guilty of this. Has anyone ever tried to fix a damn Mackie? These days, most products are built like this. It has certainly made Sony Service a high yield profit center. This is another beef I have with Sony. Service should be a break even business for a manufacturer, not a profit center. Sony charges customers $180 an hour with a 4 hour minimum for field service. They would also mark up part prices as much as 1000%. This pretty much eliminated most modest recording studios from their customer list. Especially APR owners. Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #105 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 1:38 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. richardlhess Offline Send Email Mark (and all), Peter Hammar was the curator of the Ampex museum and a bunch of us are after him to write a book. There is also an ex BASF guy in Germany who has compiled a LOT of history... I think the best thing would be for all of the possible authors to collaborate on one major book. I don't think there's market space for multiple books at this point. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting newmedia@...: > SS: > > Thanks -- I've been a TAPEOP subscriber for quite awhile now, partly in the > hope of finding something "thoughtful" or at least "analytical" about these > issues. As you've noted, the emphasis is on FREE with these folks. > > My experience has been that most folks want "tips" and/or "stories" -- > especially when they come from someone with a "name." > > The way I approach these questions probably doesn't have much of an audience > > . . . but when I finish my research and find the time to write it all up, I > might just find out. > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #106 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 2:08 pm Subject: Re: P/S Removal richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Cary! Very useful--that's what I thought it was, but I had tried it w/o the stand. I'll use the stand next time! I just found out one of my new colleagues here at my day job had serviced the two 5003Vs that I got from the DC area. He said they had been in a clean room environment! By the way, Studer dropped the servicability as well between the A810 and the A807, but at least one of the arguments was that it required less service... Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting ladewd : > It *is* the work of the devil to remove the power supply. If you > have one of those handy little stands, its easier. You can spin the > machine upside down quite easily. The easiest way is to > > 1. Remove the bottom panel > 2. Lower the back panel > 3. Unplug the cables on the rear of the supply. > 4. Lower the front panel and remove the 4 mounting screws. > 5. Slowly slide the supply out stopping about 1/2 way out. > 6. Remove the two cables attached to the supply (Capstan reference > and power). > 7. Slide the supply the rest of the way out. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #107 From: Scott Phillips Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 2:35 pm Subject: RE: P/S Removal ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...always an easy statement from the engineers that don't end up having to service them themselves. _____ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:lists@...] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:08 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] P/S Removal Thanks, Cary! Very useful--that's what I thought it was, but I had tried it w/o the stand. I'll use the stand next time! I just found out one of my new colleagues here at my day job had serviced the two 5003Vs that I got from the DC area. He said they had been in a clean room environment! By the way, Studer dropped the servicability as well between the A810 and the A807, but at least one of the arguments was that it required less service... Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting ladewd : > It *is* the work of the devil to remove the power supply. If you > have one of those handy little stands, its easier. You can spin the > machine upside down quite easily. The easiest way is to > > 1. Remove the bottom panel > 2. Lower the back panel > 3. Unplug the cables on the rear of the supply. > 4. Lower the front panel and remove the 4 mounting screws. > 5. Slowly slide the supply out stopping about 1/2 way out. > 6. Remove the two cables attached to the supply (Capstan reference > and power). > 7. Slide the supply the rest of the way out. > _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #108 From: newmedia@... Date: Fri Apr 2, 2004 11:02 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 trk. newmedia@... Send Email Richard: There are about a dozen books out there that I've helped with -- some more, some less . . . in some cases supplied the idea and much of the research. So, I'm *very* pleased to collaborate (for free ) -- point anyone you'd like in my direction. Best, Mark [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #109 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 6:50 am Subject: Re: Customer bae_steve Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, I've been in JH416 Hell w/ Randy for the last two days. Also our phone system is down as I havn't been here to correct the computer problem. Thanks again, for the referral........SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #110 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 12:30 pm Subject: RE: Customer ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Oh my... a JH416 ! Hell is right ! -----Original Message----- From: mcijh@... [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 5:50 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Customer Thanks Cary, I've been in JH416 Hell w/ Randy for the last two days. Also our phone system is down as I havn't been here to correct the computer problem. Thanks again, for the referral........SS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #111 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 8:00 pm Subject: Re: Customer bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, theirs JH hell (good) and Sony hell (not so good) and computer hell (bad)....good hell ain't so bad, especially when you get to spend it w/ the Blevinator....SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #112 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 8:00 pm Subject: Re: Customer bae_steve Offline Send Email P.S. typo.....There's.......SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #113 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 8:52 pm Subject: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... bae_steve Offline Send Email Randy & I supplied the bare machine for the molding of Jeep's tombstone. I have the serial # tag. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #114 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Apr 3, 2004 10:47 pm Subject: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Randy & I supplied the bare machine for the molding of Jeep's tombstone. I have the serial # tag. SS It was cool you did that. I tried at tape op but no one replied, but then those guys scrounge for any tape machine they can get. Some of them even use Tascam. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #115 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 12:22 am Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... bae_steve Offline Send Email I don't get your meaning? you tried what..some of them use less that Teac's...... I love my APR's, they bring back memories of Chuck Berry, and Pints of Flower's, and N.Y. Irish girls, etc., etc. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #116 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 1:07 pm Subject: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ladewd Offline Send Email > I don't get your meaning? you tried what..some of them use less that Teac's...... In the weeks following Jeep's death, many of us ex-MCI'ers were sent emails requesting a non-functioning JH24 to be used as a model for Jeep's headstone. I posted a request on TapeOp. I also noticed that Glenn Coleman had posted on rec.audio.pro. No one seemed to respond to the requests. I was saying it was a very nice that Randy stepped up to the plate. ...and rightly so, since the bulk of Randy's business evolved out of the MCI product line. Yep you're right about using less than Teac's. Some even use Fostex, or even Vestax. ...and they swear by them. Me, I have become a computer jockey these days. I love my APRs also. Too bad one of them is sitting in the garage with a blanket over it. I listen to my 5003V daily though. If I can ever clean out the garage, I would look for a used console to pair with the APR16. My family and myself are such pack-rats that this is very unlikely. I also have fond memories of being laughed at when I told the guys at Century Studios in Orlando that the APR-24 punch in transients were normal, and the machine losing its mind when looping time code in the first revision of firmware was a non-problem. Fantastic memories of traveling to Madison WI, in the middle of winter to help a guy complaining about APR-24 tape path problem. He pulled out a tape with splices every second. I eventually got it working ok, but wondered why all of the splices were on the tape. He replied, that he was correcting the "feel" of the drummer. When I asked why he didn't just hire a decent drummer, he stated it was not an option. The band's name was Nirvana, I had never heard of them at the time. Also there was the "Storm of the Century" in NYC while I spent 4 weeks there commissioning 2 3056's at Sony Music and fixing 25 of NBC's APR5000 power supplies. It was the first time in 20 years I went through a snowstorm, and the first time I ever saw lightning during a blizzard. Looking back it was all fun though. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > I don't get your meaning? you tried what..some of them use less that Teac's...... > > I love my APR's, they bring back memories of Chuck Berry, and Pints of Flower's, and N.Y. Irish girls, etc., etc. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #117 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 7:15 pm Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email When did he die ? I wasn't in the area any more.... -----Original Message----- From: mcijh@... [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:52 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... Randy & I supplied the bare machine for the molding of Jeep's tombstone. I have the serial # tag. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #118 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 11:06 pm Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... bae_steve Offline Send Email How about if you meet me in New Orleans at the end of May, and I give you a JH618 in trade for a APR-16? SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #119 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 11:20 pm Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... bae_steve Offline Send Email Jeep Harned, 1930-2003 George Petersen Mix, May 1, 2003 Grover C. “Jeep” Harned, the founder of MCI Electronics — a manufacturer of studio consoles and recorders during the 1970s and 1980s — died on March 13, 2003. After earning a bachelor's degree from Mississippi State University, Harned joined the U.S. Army, serving as electronics instructor. In 1955, he opened Music Center Inc., a store catering to the growing hi-fi market. Harned soon hooked up with Mack Emerman, who had just opened Criteria Studios and had trouble with the facility's custom-built 16×3 console and ½-inch 3-track recorders. This “quick-fix” job lasted some 18 months, as Harned redesigned nearly all of Criteria's gear. During the early ‘60s, Harned built consoles, preamps and record electronics. In 1965, his business name became MCI Inc., and he focused on making replacement solid-state Ampex 350 recorders. Word about MCI spread: Harned got a call from Tom Hidley (then manager of TTG Recording Studios in Hollywood), asking if MCI could create 24-track electronics for an Ampex 300 that Hidley modified to handle 2-inch tape. That first 24-track went into service at TTG in 1968, creating a stir among competing studios and leading to a recording revolution. MCI showed its own recorders at AES 1971, and a year later, intro'd the concept of the AutoLocator. MCI began building a “production” console series, and soon off-the-shelf pro studio mixers became reality. Later, a Nashville audio dealer named Dave Harrison, who later founded Harrison Consoles, came to Harned with an idea of a console with in-line (as opposed to “split”) monitoring. In 1972, the MCI JH400 Series — the first in-line console — was born. In 1978, MCI unveiled a 32-track analog deck that recorded on 3-inch tape. It went nowhere. MCI did much better with its JH500 and JH600 Series consoles, which became ubiquitous fixtures in studios. Harned sold MCI to Sony in 1982 and retired. He will long be remembered as a pioneer who made significant advancements to the state of pro audio. © 2004, Primedia Business Magazines and Media, a PRIMEDIA company. All rights reserved. This article is protected by United States copyright and other intellectual property laws and may not be reproduced, rewritten, distributed, redisseminated, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast, directly or indirectly, in any medium without the prior written permission of PRIMEDIA Business Corp. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #120 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 11:42 pm Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... bae_steve Offline Send Email Cary, These guys ('cause I know there are no girls in pro audio....at least not identifiable online) are probably getting pretty tired of our remeniscenses. I'll tell you about Wisconsin in the snow in a direct email, and not bother these poor APR user's w/ more info than they want to know. And you should do the same, Scott. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #121 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 4, 2004 11:49 pm Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, At the risk of hurting the heads of other list members, I was thinking that this exchange was equal to some of the great exchanges we have had on the Ampex list and is a great insight into these times. While neither Mark nor I have any plans of writing a book, the history of this segment of the industry is not well-documented and, I hope, that some of this stuff can be preserved long-term. When I started this list it was for somewhat selfish reasons--to learn more about a tape recorder I had grown to love rather late in its life (happens with folksingers, too, but that's another story), and now it's turning into another great resource about the industry. So, may I respectfully request that these historic anecdotes (dare I say with my dba as Vignettes Media, "vignettes") continue to be posted to the list? I'm sure the one or two people who don't find them as interesting as I (and I think Mark) do, know where their delete key is. Thanks! Richard At 11:42 PM 4/4/2004 -0400, mcijh@... wrote: >Cary, These guys ('cause I know there are no girls in pro audio....at >least not identifiable online) are probably getting pretty tired of our >remeniscenses. I'll tell you about Wisconsin in the snow in a direct >email, and not bother these poor APR user's w/ more info than they want to >know. And you should do the same, Scott. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #122 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 12:06 am Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I had already directed some directly to Cary, as I agree.. !! -----Original Message----- From: mcijh@... [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 10:43 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... Cary, These guys ('cause I know there are no girls in pro audio....at least not identifiable online) are probably getting pretty tired of our remeniscenses. I'll tell you about Wisconsin in the snow in a direct email, and not bother these poor APR user's w/ more info than they want to know. And you should do the same, Scott. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #123 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 12:39 am Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Well all right then ! Like Steve, I was getting a bit concerned that it was perhaps too off topic for many on the list. Before I worked for MCI/Sony, I worked for years at Criteria Studios in Miami (Sometimes called Atlantic South), and because of the close ties between Jeep Harned (founder of MCI) and Mack Emerman (owner of Criteria) we got the first of nearly everything ever designed and built by MCI (including prototypes to debug) and the bulk of what SPPC (Sony) built for profession audio until late in the game. Since we were basically the beta test site, there are all kinds of stories about the gear, the sessions, and the times. As long time MCI / Sony employees, Steve and Cary have their stories and histories with the industry as well. Blevins Audio, well, they have been a staple in the industry for years. You really can't be a part of 'the business' for a long time unless if you really have a love for the gear, recording, the people, and the craziness.... I had missed Jeep's passing because I had a heart attack and surgery a while back, and was in the hospital for some follow-up when jeep died. Speaking of crazy, Steve, do you remember the first (of two, I think it was) MCI 2 track digital machine? We had one at Criteria, It was similar in physical form to a JH-110 8 track machine, with the electronics (when they worked!) in an overbridge. I know it was never put into production, but it was an example of the wild sorts of things that sometimes came to us from MCI and Jeep..... like that 3" 32 track recorder modeled after the JH-24. Too bad the reels of tape were so heavy that you needed a crane to lift them onto the machine... I still can't believe that Ampex got talked into making some tape and hubs for it... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 10:49 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... Hi, Scott, At the risk of hurting the heads of other list members, I was thinking that this exchange was equal to some of the great exchanges we have had on the Ampex list and is a great insight into these times. While neither Mark nor I have any plans of writing a book, the history of this segment of the industry is not well-documented and, I hope, that some of this stuff can be preserved long-term. When I started this list it was for somewhat selfish reasons--to learn more about a tape recorder I had grown to love rather late in its life (happens with folksingers, too, but that's another story), and now it's turning into another great resource about the industry. So, may I respectfully request that these historic anecdotes (dare I say with my dba as Vignettes Media, "vignettes") continue to be posted to the list? I'm sure the one or two people who don't find them as interesting as I (and I think Mark) do, know where their delete key is. Thanks! Richard At 11:42 PM 4/4/2004 -0400, mcijh@... wrote: >Cary, These guys ('cause I know there are no girls in pro audio....at >least not identifiable online) are probably getting pretty tired of our >remeniscenses. I'll tell you about Wisconsin in the snow in a direct >email, and not bother these poor APR user's w/ more info than they want to >know. And you should do the same, Scott. SS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #124 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 12:19 pm Subject: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ladewd Offline Send Email > Speaking of crazy, Steve, do you remember the first (of two, I think it was) > MCI 2 track digital machine? We had one at Criteria, It was similar in > physical form to a JH-110 8 track machine, with the electronics (when they > worked!) in an overbridge. I know it was never put into production, but it > was an example of the wild sorts of things that sometimes came to us from > MCI and Jeep..... like that 3" 32 track recorder modeled after the JH-24. > Too bad the reels of tape were so heavy that you needed a crane to lift them > onto the machine... I still can't believe that Ampex got talked into > making some tape and hubs for it... > I remember seeing the dead carcass of that digital machine. Tom G told me some stories about it and the reaction of the the first Sony crew when they saw it. From what I was told, the error correction was light years ahead of anything Sony ever developed. Tom said the Japanese engineers kept engaging the lifters quickly, but the program material never dropped out. Of course no one really knew what the Japanese engineers said to one another, but Tom's overall opinion was that they were impressed as hell. The machine itself looked like a nightmare with wirewound and perfboard construction. Who knows what would have developed if MCI was never sold to the Japs. Oh well, water under the bridge as they say. Oddly enough, the first digital multitrack that Sony built, the PCM3324, had wire wrapped motherboards rather than a printed circuit design. Extreme care was needed when working back there. The wires weren't even color coded. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #125 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 11:54 am Subject: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > How about if you meet me in New Orleans at the end of May, and I give you a JH618 in trade for a APR-16? SS Now what good would that do me? A console with no tape machine? Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #126 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 9:41 am Subject: Re: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... newmedia@... Send Email Y'all: I'm curious about what people thought the "purpose" for 32 (or 48 tracks) might have been? If I recall, Stephens built his "capstan-less" machines for movie studios who had so many different dialogue and effects tracks to combine that there were never enough -- was the 24-track Ampex 300 that went to TTG in 1968 intended for movies or for music? When Frank Zappa came to NYC in 1967 he started recording at Mayfair studios on an 8-track Scully which was set up with one speaker per channel for monitoring -- which he apparently could listen to all at the same time. He then moved to Apostolic where they had a 12-track Scully (also 1") which was what he thought he needed at that time. And, by most accounts, he was WAY beyond anyone else's capability to use multi-tracks in that era. Having just bought and listened to the 5.1 DVD-A re-mix of Pet Sounds this weekend (which I'm told was partly composed on an 8-track Scully), I was reminded of how *opposed* Brian Wilson was to 16+ track machines. The shift from "ensemble" recording to isolated musicians playing by (or with?) themselves is one of the more obvious effects of multi-tracking -- which, in many people's view, removed the "music" from the music. Any reflections on the early application of 24-32-48 track machines -- 3" or otherwise? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #127 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 2:31 pm Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've had to service the 3324 as well. Caution is an understatement. To those that have never seen it, it is the closest thing to a hugh birds nest of wire-wrap wires you can imagine on the backplane. The people that built those things must have gone crazy. How you'd find it if you made an error wiring it, well.... As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have no idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned were Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. If any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I think he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) What I recall of the MCI digital recorder itself was that it had to warm up a very long time for the converters to stabilize, and then needed DC offset adjustments then before use each time. To those who weren't around for early digital machines, these sorts of things were common problems in early designs, particularly since the circuit topology was pretty discreet. After all, back then, who made dedicated chips to do much of any of it? Pretty hard to have everything perfectly stable with it all spread out on a zillion boards and general purpose chips.... it is too long ago for me to remember what the audio quality was like. Likely pretty good, for the era... _____ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:19 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... > Speaking of crazy, Steve, do you remember the first (of two, I think it was) > MCI 2 track digital machine? We had one at Criteria, It was similar in > physical form to a JH-110 8 track machine, with the electronics (when they > worked!) in an overbridge. I know it was never put into production, but it > was an example of the wild sorts of things that sometimes came to us from > MCI and Jeep..... like that 3" 32 track recorder modeled after the JH-24. > Too bad the reels of tape were so heavy that you needed a crane to lift them > onto the machine... I still can't believe that Ampex got talked into > making some tape and hubs for it... > I remember seeing the dead carcass of that digital machine. Tom G told me some stories about it and the reaction of the the first Sony crew when they saw it. From what I was told, the error correction was light years ahead of anything Sony ever developed. Tom said the Japanese engineers kept engaging the lifters quickly, but the program material never dropped out. Of course no one really knew what the Japanese engineers said to one another, but Tom's overall opinion was that they were impressed as hell. The machine itself looked like a nightmare with wirewound and perfboard construction. Who knows what would have developed if MCI was never sold to the Japs. Oh well, water under the bridge as they say. Oddly enough, the first digital multitrack that Sony built, the PCM3324, had wire wrapped motherboards rather than a printed circuit design. Extreme care was needed when working back there. The wires weren't even color coded. Cary _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #128 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 7:00 pm Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email A couple of other things I thought I'd point out. Early console mixer automation was generally tape based and required 2 tracks of the 24 track. Worse, because the automation data was basically square wave material, it was very obvious when it bled even slightly into adjacent tracks on the recorder. Truly a nasty sounding noise, right in the middle of the most annoying audio range. It was one of those noised that didn't get masked very well behind other signals. As a consequence, people used the edge tracks 1 and 24 for this, so there wasn't a useful track on both sides of each automation track. Dropouts played hell with the data, and as you might expect the edge tracks were more prone to this than the others. On top of all this, anything loud and / or transient recorded on the tracks next to the automation tracks tended to produce data errors as well. The results were that many times even with careful track planning one could find oneself with open tracks that you couldn't really use, particularly on ballads or other quiet materials. Suddenly your 24 track might be really a 20 track or worse if your track planning was bad. You might expect that adjacent tracks would be where the crosstalk showed up most, but often it would turn up a number of tracks away, caused by imperfections in the recorder head internal shielding. Automation was a godsend for most engineers to mix with. Finally a mix did not require the engineer, the producer, the band AND the roadies to work around each other at mix time to handle all the changes. Automation, at least the early stuff, didn't get in the way of a creative mix, it was really just a replacement for the extra hands needed prior to automation. It was a real consideration however in track planning. If the audio was to be matched to video, then the whole can of worms was repeated with the SMPTE track on top of the automation data tracks, and the early timecode readers were also subject to errors caused by the content on nearby channels. I'm not going to comment too much on the 'talent' issues that make people want to use many tracks. When the track numbers were lower, there was less 'comp' ing of multiple performances to get a good one. Studio time was so expensive at a good studio that the expectation was an artist either came in with his material 'nailed' already, or a studio musician came in who was so good that 2 takes later HE had it nailed. At Criteria in the 1977-84 time frame it was normal for studio time to cost $300-500 and hour without engineer, tape, outboard gear, etc. Much more for 48 track lockup or video lockup. Trial and error recording was so expensive that except at the very top end of artists, record companies rented rehearsal space at cheap rates before hand to get the artists ready for the sessions. How times have changed... look at session rates now, and what is supplied for that cheap rate. In any case, all these reasons have driven track counts... and DAW makes the sky the limit. How you make a mix of all that material and have a real feel for the music and performance, I have no idea !! Sorry for the long response !! Apologies to anyone / everyone on the APR list for the rant... but it was a good question to ask, and the answers were not as simple as one might have thought. -----Original Message----- From: newmedia@... [mailto:newmedia@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:42 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... Y'all: I'm curious about what people thought the "purpose" for 32 (or 48 tracks) might have been? If I recall, Stephens built his "capstan-less" machines for movie studios who had so many different dialogue and effects tracks to combine that there were never enough -- was the 24-track Ampex 300 that went to TTG in 1968 intended for movies or for music? When Frank Zappa came to NYC in 1967 he started recording at Mayfair studios on an 8-track Scully which was set up with one speaker per channel for monitoring -- which he apparently could listen to all at the same time. He then moved to Apostolic where they had a 12-track Scully (also 1") which was what he thought he needed at that time. And, by most accounts, he was WAY beyond anyone else's capability to use multi-tracks in that era. Having just bought and listened to the 5.1 DVD-A re-mix of Pet Sounds this weekend (which I'm told was partly composed on an 8-track Scully), I was reminded of how *opposed* Brian Wilson was to 16+ track machines. The shift from "ensemble" recording to isolated musicians playing by (or with?) themselves is one of the more obvious effects of multi-tracking -- which, in many people's view, removed the "music" from the music. Any reflections on the early application of 24-32-48 track machines -- 3" or otherwise? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #129 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 2:54 pm Subject: RE: Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email anyone needing more than 24 tracks had to SMPTE lock a couple of recorders. Looks good on paper, but due to the transport dynamics of machines back then (or lack there of), the slewing for transport lockup was slow and sloppy, really slowing down the creative process while everyone waited for the machines. Punch-in was a real joy, and obviously there are phase problems between the audio on the two machines. Some folks would do basic tracks on one machine, lock it to a second machine, and print a submix to work from on the second machine. Then the overdubs would go on the slave machine only until mixdown time, when the two tapes would be sync'd again for the mix. This also helped with the degradation in the basic tracks of drums and the like, as there were fewer passes on the tape to create the subtle self-erasure of the tracks that are the bedrock of modern recordings of this sort. A bit later (yes later) I saw folks doing this with 16 track 2" instead of 24 track 2", as the additional track width on tape DID sound better. You might wand to check out Tom Dowd, as he was a pioneer of the use of multitrack recorders in studios. He passed away a couple of years ago. His opinion, as expressed to me at the time (and that I agree completely with still) is that if you needed more than 24 tracks, then you hadn't planned the recording properly to begin with. It wasn't the number of tracks that made the music. A great producer always seemed to know exactly what the record was going to sound like in their heads before the sessions ever started. In Tom's mind, (at least then) more than 24 tracks only allowed you to put off all your decisions until last, and the result was music without a 'sound' or a direction, and so it was created by trial and error rather than ears and organization. The early use of the 48+ track situations I saw were more a case of stroking egos than anything else. The one exception MIGHT have been early MIDI recordings, as MIDI gear was not very polyphonic and was slow to respond. The tendency I say was to use all the tracks available most of the time. Again, poor prior planning was a part of that... _____ From: newmedia@... [mailto:newmedia@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:42 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re:FYI Jeep's Tombstone....... Y'all: I'm curious about what people thought the "purpose" for 32 (or 48 tracks) might have been? If I recall, Stephens built his "capstan-less" machines for movie studios who had so many different dialogue and effects tracks to combine that there were never enough -- was the 24-track Ampex 300 that went to TTG in 1968 intended for movies or for music? When Frank Zappa came to NYC in 1967 he started recording at Mayfair studios on an 8-track Scully which was set up with one speaker per channel for monitoring -- which he apparently could listen to all at the same time. He then moved to Apostolic where they had a 12-track Scully (also 1") which was what he thought he needed at that time. And, by most accounts, he was WAY beyond anyone else's capability to use multi-tracks in that era. Having just bought and listened to the 5.1 DVD-A re-mix of Pet Sounds this weekend (which I'm told was partly composed on an 8-track Scully), I was reminded of how *opposed* Brian Wilson was to 16+ track machines. The shift from "ensemble" recording to isolated musicians playing by (or with?) themselves is one of the more obvious effects of multi-tracking -- which, in many people's view, removed the "music" from the music. Any reflections on the early application of 24-32-48 track machines -- 3" or otherwise? Thanks, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #130 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 6:09 pm Subject: RE: early digital recorders (was FYI Jeep's Tombstone) richardlhess Offline Send Email Quoting Scott Phillips : > I've had to service the 3324 as well. Caution is an understatement. To those > that have never seen it, it is the closest thing to a hugh birds nest of > wire-wrap wires you can imagine on the backplane. The people that built > those things must have gone crazy. How you'd find it if you made an error > wiring it, well.... I remember using Cambion (Cambridge Thermionic) wire-wrap boards AND their wrapping service in the mid-1970s for a few one-off things. It was done from a wire list -- which Cambion then optimized for their NC machines. I hand-wrote the wire list on their form and, I think with three boards there was one error out of about 900 wires. > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have no > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned were > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. If > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I think > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? The early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and at least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work X80. -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #131 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 8:03 pm Subject: Early digital recorders richardlhess Offline Send Email This didn't seem to go the first time Quoting Scott Phillips wrote in the FYI Jeep's Tombstone thread: > I've had to service the 3324 as well. Caution is an understatement. To those > that have never seen it, it is the closest thing to a hugh birds nest of > wire-wrap wires you can imagine on the backplane. The people that built > those things must have gone crazy. How you'd find it if you made an error > wiring it, well.... I remember using Cambion (Cambridge Thermionic) wire-wrap boards AND their wrapping service in the mid-1970s for a few one-off things. It was done from a wire list -- which Cambion then optimized for their NC machines. I hand-wrote the wire list on their form and, I think with three boards there was one error out of about 900 wires. > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have no > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned were > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. If > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I think > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? The early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and at least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work X80. -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #132 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 11:13 pm Subject: RE: Early digital recorders ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email When I was in Japan I remember being shown the 3324 production area. I could swore that they told me it was hand wired (at that point). Either way, they are amazing looking. I'd seen wire wrap construction a good bit, I'm over 50.. but I guess small Japanese women line worker fingers...... :>) MCI would likely have kept things like the digital machines, and I know Criteria returned the one we had to MCI. When the Japanese took over MCI, the not-invented-here syndrome took over and things like that were scraped. A pity, really. I must say that in Japan they admitted to me that while they did tape transports well, when it came to pro audio circuit design for good sound, they said, quote " Ah, you know Scott-san, Japanese guys have tin ear, so we have American or British person design audio circuit or amplifier" It might be different now, but it was an admission I've always remembered. And it WAS true. After the APR prototypes were QA evaluated in Japan, I set up blind A-B-C tests for the APR5002, a JH-110C, and a Studer. After a lot of attention to setting up the tests, The Japanese QA manager and a Sony director turned to me and said, "Scott-san, we are impressed with sound quality of APR. We think end customer will be very satisfied". Too bad they never aggressively marketed the recorder, eh ? It would have been better if the heads had a different sort of contour for high speed low end response, but can't have everything. -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:03 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Early digital recorders This didn't seem to go the first time Quoting Scott Phillips wrote in the FYI Jeep's Tombstone thread: > I've had to service the 3324 as well. Caution is an understatement. To those > that have never seen it, it is the closest thing to a hugh birds nest of > wire-wrap wires you can imagine on the backplane. The people that built > those things must have gone crazy. How you'd find it if you made an error > wiring it, well.... I remember using Cambion (Cambridge Thermionic) wire-wrap boards AND their wrapping service in the mid-1970s for a few one-off things. It was done from a wire list -- which Cambion then optimized for their NC machines. I hand-wrote the wire list on their form and, I think with three boards there was one error out of about 900 wires. > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have no > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned were > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. If > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I think > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? The early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and at least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work X80. -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #133 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 10:53 pm Subject: RE: early digital recorders (was FYI Jeep's Tombstone) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I doubt any do survive. Criteria had one, and as best I knew (I didn't work for MCI /Sony then, just say a fair amount of Jeep with Mack) MCI had only one other prototype. I might be able to find other Mitsu's. We had x-80's at the time when dubs would have been made. I'll see if I can get a hold of Mack and find out if he remembers what / when / format those recordings might have been bounced to. Some of his recordings and Tom's would possibly be quite valuable. Mack has to be close to 80 now, I haven't seen him in years. -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 5:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] early digital recorders (was FYI Jeep's Tombstone) Quoting Scott Phillips : > I've had to service the 3324 as well. Caution is an understatement. To those > that have never seen it, it is the closest thing to a hugh birds nest of > wire-wrap wires you can imagine on the backplane. The people that built > those things must have gone crazy. How you'd find it if you made an error > wiring it, well.... I remember using Cambion (Cambridge Thermionic) wire-wrap boards AND their wrapping service in the mid-1970s for a few one-off things. It was done from a wire list -- which Cambion then optimized for their NC machines. I hand-wrote the wire list on their form and, I think with three boards there was one error out of about 900 wires. > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have no > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned were > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. If > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I think > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? The early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and at least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work X80. -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #134 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 5, 2004 11:34 pm Subject: RE: Early digital recorders richardlhess Offline Send Email At 10:13 PM 4/5/2004 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: So by putting 10 and 10 together and coming up with 100 (binary of course), does that mean any archived tapes in the MCI Digital format are total orphans? That's really a shame. Soundstream might be a problem, too, no? >MCI would likely have kept things like the digital machines, and I know >Criteria returned the one we had to MCI. When the Japanese took over MCI, >the not-invented-here syndrome took over and things like that were scraped. > > > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have >no > > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned >were > > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. >If > > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I >think > > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) > >This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? >The >early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and >at >least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. >I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but >they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work >X80. > > > >-- > >Richard L. Hess >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > >web/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1081305121/A=2058224/R=0/SIG=116652qbq/*http://my.ya >hoo.com/promo/ppets.html> click here > >/S=:HM/A=2058224/rand=899120204> > > > _____ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >* To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #135 From: Scott Phillips Date: Tue Apr 6, 2004 7:47 am Subject: RE: Early digital recorders ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Yep. I wish there was one left. I'm hoping at least the performances survived... -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:35 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Early digital recorders At 10:13 PM 4/5/2004 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: So by putting 10 and 10 together and coming up with 100 (binary of course), does that mean any archived tapes in the MCI Digital format are total orphans? That's really a shame. Soundstream might be a problem, too, no? >MCI would likely have kept things like the digital machines, and I know >Criteria returned the one we had to MCI. When the Japanese took over MCI, >the not-invented-here syndrome took over and things like that were scraped. > > > > As to the MCI digital 2 track, I remember Mack Emerman and Tom Dowd (the > > famous engineer/producer and real gentleman) did a fair amount of digital > > recording of jazz and big band stuff direct to two track with it. I have >no > > idea any more how much was archived onto other media while the MCI digital > > machine was around. Mack would have done things like Woody Herman I'd bet. > > The first mainstream production digital 2 track machines Criteria owned >were > > Mitsubshi's, and I'd imagine the transfers, if made, were to that format. >If > > any one is interested, I can contact Mack and see if he remembers....I >think > > he works now with Ron and Howard Albert. (the producers) > >This is crucial--do you think any of these MCI digital recorders survive? >The >early Mitsubishi recorders are problematic as head life isn't that great and >at >least one archive has more tapes to transfer than they have head life left. >I've put them together with someone who has a pair of X86s to help out, but >they haven't yet firmed up anything. I know someone else with a well-work >X80. > > > >-- > >Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ < http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > >< http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cn3jpfr/M=281792.4727319.5879690.1261774/D=egroup >web/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1081305121/A=2058224/R=0/SIG=116652qbq/* http://my.ya >hoo.com/promo/ppets.html> click here > >< http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=281792.4727319.5879690.1261774/D=egroupweb >/S=:HM/A=2058224/rand=899120204> > > > _____ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >* To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ >< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service >< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > . > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #136 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:41 pm Subject: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3717878580 After one in Hollywood sold for $1100, this one hasn't attracted a bid at $600... Just in case you weren't watching. Even after my increased love affair with the Studer A810, I still turn to the APR for those pesky family tapes that pay the bills . Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #137 From: Graham Newton Date: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:16 pm Subject: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia gnewtonca Offline Send Email "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3717878580 > > After one in Hollywood sold for $1100, this one hasn't attracted a bid at > $600... Hi Richard... If it wasn't for already having 5 Ampex ATR-800's and expecting a Scully disc lathe in the near future, I'd bid on it.... beautiful looking machine. ... Graham Newton -- Audio Restoration by Graham Newton, http://www.audio-restoration.com World class professional services applied to tape or phonograph records for consumers and re-releases, featuring CEDAR's new CAMBRIDGE processes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #138 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:08 pm Subject: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia bae_steve Offline Send Email Oh, I'm watching it, but I'm not bidding yet, Cary will just take it out from under me at the last second, anyway...:) SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #139 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:27 am Subject: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia ladewd Offline Send Email hehe, Nah, you can have this one to add to your collection ;-). I really don't need another one. I'm scouring ebay for a nice accordion, so I can start my polka band. Funny note: when my son saw the APR he reacted much the same ways as when I dragged out my turntable. "Gee Dad, is that how they recorded music in the olden days"? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Oh, I'm watching it, but I'm not bidding yet, Cary will just take it out from under me at the last second, anyway...:) > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #140 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:41 pm Subject: Re: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia bae_steve Offline Send Email Well, now I don't have the extra cash for another one, maybe no-one will bid and he'll re-list at a reduced price. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #141 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:44 pm Subject: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Well, now I don't have the extra cash for another one, maybe no- one will bid and he'll re-list at a reduced price. > SS Hopefully, I see no bids yet. I still can't believe these machines are going for so cheap. Good luck with it. I promise I won't interfere. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #142 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:15 am Subject: Re: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia bae_steve Offline Send Email Why don't you buy it anyway, and then hold it until I have the extra cash to get it from you for the same price? And, by the way, are you bringing that 16 track to Louisiana for me at the end of next month? SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #143 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:55 pm Subject: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Why don't you buy it anyway, and then hold it until I have the extra cash to get it from you for the same price? And, by the way, are you bringing that 16 track to Louisiana for me at the end of next month? LOL! Why don't you order one of those new dual processor 2GHZ G5's? Then, I'll "give" you the APR16. I'll split the shipping with you. I won't be coming to Lousina, although I'd like to. I need to conserve my money for other things. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #144 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:43 am Subject: Re: Re: A nice looking APR-5003V on eBay in Philadelphia newmedia@... Send Email Folks: So -- it went for $600 . . . now, compare it to this MONSTER!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3718481043 Originally intended as the Nagra TI -- a 4-track instrumentation deck with super-steady dual-capstan 15/32-to-64ips servo-transport designed to accomplish FM (i.e. low frequency) recording -- following the success of the Nagra IV-SJ . . . which was widely used for noise/vibration recording following the failure of Bruel & Kjaer to make a half-way decent tape-recorder. The B&K 7001 (a beautiful FM-only lab instrument) was followed by the 7003/4 (the only instrumentation deck with an "audio" electronics option) and then the 7005/6 -- portable machines that some still hope to turn into 4-track Frankencorders -- show up from time-to-time on ebay as well. Usually $200 will buy a good example. Only 800 Nagra TI's were built -- 200 of which were sold OEM to a Bell & Howell subsidiary in Germany which built the 1/4" 8-track TI-8 out of them -- since, by this time, the instrumentation crowd had already passed through PCM "upgrades" to analog decks and moved onto DAT machines. Occasionally, these PCM'ed Nagra IV's and Stellavoxs will also make onto daBay. Nagra "resurrected" the failed TI effort and built the "TA Audio" by hanging a keyboard off the front, an overbridge off the rear and a card-cage on the bottom of the *portable* TI transport chassis. Yipes!! Normally used for time-code transfer of IV-STC recorded movie dialogue tapes, the TA is considered one of the most expensive and most "un-musical" tape-recorders ever designed . . . but it sure does LOOK nifty, in a Swiss-watch-kludgey sorta way. Btw, I still own 1x B&K 7001, 3x B&K 7003/4's and 1x IV-SJ. And, I've just sold my TI-8 to a fellow who hopes to convert it to 1/2" portable and my other 3x IV-SJ's are making there way through the "vintage" market in Tokyo on there way into some collector's display case. Ain't all this OLD stuff grand . . . ?? Best, Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #145 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed May 5, 2004 12:56 pm Subject: Check it out Steve ladewd Offline Send Email APR5003V on ebay. $500, 9 days left. Go for it, I won't touch it. It looks as nice as the one I got. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #146 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 1:28 am Subject: Applied Magnetics Corp heads and APR mounts richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, all, I just got a box of four head assemblies from my heap o' machines in a storage locker in NJ. They have Applied Magnetics heads which are wider than the Woelke heads and hence the standard Woelke/Nortronics mounts aren't present. Do you know anything about how/why these heads were supplied? Does anyone have a bag (a dozen?) of the bottom half of the standard APR mount for Woelke heads? The Applied Magnetics mount is flat across in approximately the same plane as the Woelke, but no downward parts. So I'm interested in parts to mount my Nortronics special-purpose heads and the history behind this odd configuration--odd in that I haven't seen it before and I don't recall it being in the documentation. It appears Applied Magnetics is another dot-bomb and went under. At one point they may have been sold to Nakamichi I read in one Google summary of an article on a subscription service. I think Pres. Clinton had to approve the sale. They were in Goleta or Santa Barbara CA. The face of these heads looks a lot like early ReVox A77 heads--just the same coloration between the face and the lams, but they are in screwed-on top and bottom square caps similar to but less robust than the full-size Studer heads. The pole pieces are definitely longer than the Woelke. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #147 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu May 6, 2004 10:09 am Subject: Re: Check it out Steve bae_steve Offline Send Email I'm saving my money for the 4 day TapeOp bender in N.O. La. Have to pass on this one. I think it's the same one that didn't sell for $600.00 last month. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #148 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:15 am Subject: Re: Applied Magnetics Corp heads and APR mounts ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Richard, Are you talking about the wide profile amorphous steel heads that were once an option for the APR? They weren't very popular, and even though they were touted to have better low freq response, I found the opposite to be true. They also were not compatible with the center track TC channel, so no 5003's were ever built using them. There were a few 5002's built using these heads, but they are very uncommon. The headstacks were offered as an option. They have a much longer head life than the Woelke heads and were meant to be an option to make the machine look and sound more "studer like" (IMO a big mistake). I'm trying to rack my brain, but I think there were two mounting holes on the top of the heads and they only needed to be screwed into the upper part of the existing head mounts. Its been awhile since I've seen one of those headstacks. I have a few standard head mounting blocks, but not a dozen. I am waiting for a box of assorted APR parts and heads to be sent to me. When I get it, I'll see what kind of goodies are in it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hello, all, > > I just got a box of four head assemblies from my heap o' machines in a > storage locker in NJ. > > They have Applied Magnetics heads which are wider than the Woelke heads and > hence the standard Woelke/Nortronics mounts aren't present. > > Do you know anything about how/why these heads were supplied? > > Does anyone have a bag (a dozen?) of the bottom half of the standard APR > mount for Woelke heads? > > The Applied Magnetics mount is flat across in approximately the same plane > as the Woelke, but no downward parts. > > So I'm interested in parts to mount my Nortronics special-purpose heads and > the history behind this odd configuration--odd in that I haven't seen it > before and I don't recall it being in the documentation. > > It appears Applied Magnetics is another dot-bomb and went under. At one > point they may have been sold to Nakamichi I read in one Google summary of > an article on a subscription service. I think Pres. Clinton had to approve > the sale. They were in Goleta or Santa Barbara CA. > > The face of these heads looks a lot like early ReVox A77 heads-- just the > same coloration between the face and the lams, but they are in screwed-on > top and bottom square caps similar to but less robust than the full-size > Studer heads. The pole pieces are definitely longer than the Woelke. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #149 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:23 am Subject: Re: Check it out Steve ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > I'm saving my money for the 4 day TapeOp bender in N.O. La. Have to pass on this one. I think it's the same one that didn't sell for $600.00 last month. SS I wish like hell I could go to the TapeOp thing. Maybe next year. I'm thinking seriously of moving back to FL. I was offered a job there, but am not yet certain of all the details. I need to speak with Ben Cleaverly about it. Now there's a blast from the past! I'm sending resumes out like crazy so we'll see if anything develops here in LA first. Hell, maybe the APR will be down to $400 next time around. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #150 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:31 am Subject: RE: Re: Applied Magnetics Corp heads and APR mounts ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I believe you must be right, Cary. I puzzled over his email yesterday and couldn't come up with anything else except perhaps an owner who had second-sourced heads for it and jury-rigged the mountings. My recollection on the amorphous heads and use matches yours..... one of the technological abortions in sheep's clothing.. :>) MCI/Sony had a long term relationship with AMC for multitrack heads, so it would have been natural for them to turn to AMC for these one-off heads. _____ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:16 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Applied Magnetics Corp heads and APR mounts Hey Richard, Are you talking about the wide profile amorphous steel heads that were once an option for the APR? They weren't very popular, and even though they were touted to have better low freq response, I found the opposite to be true. They also were not compatible with the center track TC channel, so no 5003's were ever built using them. There were a few 5002's built using these heads, but they are very uncommon. The headstacks were offered as an option. They have a much longer head life than the Woelke heads and were meant to be an option to make the machine look and sound more "studer like" (IMO a big mistake). I'm trying to rack my brain, but I think there were two mounting holes on the top of the heads and they only needed to be screwed into the upper part of the existing head mounts. Its been awhile since I've seen one of those headstacks. I have a few standard head mounting blocks, but not a dozen. I am waiting for a box of assorted APR parts and heads to be sent to me. When I get it, I'll see what kind of goodies are in it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hello, all, > > I just got a box of four head assemblies from my heap o' machines in a > storage locker in NJ. > > They have Applied Magnetics heads which are wider than the Woelke heads and > hence the standard Woelke/Nortronics mounts aren't present. > > Do you know anything about how/why these heads were supplied? > > Does anyone have a bag (a dozen?) of the bottom half of the standard APR > mount for Woelke heads? > > The Applied Magnetics mount is flat across in approximately the same plane > as the Woelke, but no downward parts. > > So I'm interested in parts to mount my Nortronics special-purpose heads and > the history behind this odd configuration--odd in that I haven't seen it > before and I don't recall it being in the documentation. > > It appears Applied Magnetics is another dot-bomb and went under. At one > point they may have been sold to Nakamichi I read in one Google summary of > an article on a subscription service. I think Pres. Clinton had to approve > the sale. They were in Goleta or Santa Barbara CA. > > The face of these heads looks a lot like early ReVox A77 heads-- just the > same coloration between the face and the lams, but they are in screwed-on > top and bottom square caps similar to but less robust than the full-size > Studer heads. The pole pieces are definitely longer than the Woelke. > > Cheers, > > Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #151 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:32 am Subject: Wide Profile Heads ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, I just took a look at a headstack. What you need is the same mounting block as the erase or TC head to mount these heads. These blocks were universally used on the erase, TC and 1/2" heads. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #152 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 12:24 pm Subject: Re: Wide Profile Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary and Scott, Thanks for the reply--perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've got 16 of these heads (8 record and 8 play) already mounted in 8 APR head assemblies. I need some (five would be a good start) of the normal Woelke (Nortronics) blocks before I go have John French go make 'em in a week or two. While I'd love to give John the money--he's a nice guy--I'd even more like to keep half the money and give the other half to one of you folks for the already made standard Woelke block. I had never seen these before, but now that you've said it, it does make sense that they are using the same block as the erase head and 1/2-inch heads. That will give John a good base for mounting 1/2-inch 3- and 4-channel heads for me. I'm actually going to do it! I'm on a bit of a short fuse for at least two of these blocks as I need to get moving on some client 4-track tapes and since I was never pleased with the Otari MTR-12 results, I need to get the FrankenSony working. I've got all the parts (I hope all) on order from DigiKey and Mouser due in next week, except these brackets. Who would have thought that these would be non-standard. I've never seen any other APR that looks like this...now I've seen 8. Oh and these heads have almost a 1/4-inch flat spot on them, so I think they're all pretty shot, though JRF and I will talk about them tomorrow. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting ladewd : > Richard, > > I just took a look at a headstack. What you need is the same > mounting block as the erase or TC head to mount these heads. These > blocks were universally used on the erase, TC and 1/2" heads. > > Cary > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #153 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu May 6, 2004 12:35 pm Subject: RE: Wide Profile Heads ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email A pity that folks run heads until they are junk, isn't it? So much better, longer useful life if they just visit Dr. French in a timely manner...... John does have a way of rescuing ugly looking heads ! _____ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:25 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Wide Profile Heads Hi, Cary and Scott, Thanks for the reply--perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've got 16 of these heads (8 record and 8 play) already mounted in 8 APR head assemblies. I need some (five would be a good start) of the normal Woelke (Nortronics) blocks before I go have John French go make 'em in a week or two. While I'd love to give John the money--he's a nice guy--I'd even more like to keep half the money and give the other half to one of you folks for the already made standard Woelke block. I had never seen these before, but now that you've said it, it does make sense that they are using the same block as the erase head and 1/2-inch heads. That will give John a good base for mounting 1/2-inch 3- and 4-channel heads for me. I'm actually going to do it! I'm on a bit of a short fuse for at least two of these blocks as I need to get moving on some client 4-track tapes and since I was never pleased with the Otari MTR-12 results, I need to get the FrankenSony working. I've got all the parts (I hope all) on order from DigiKey and Mouser due in next week, except these brackets. Who would have thought that these would be non-standard. I've never seen any other APR that looks like this...now I've seen 8. Oh and these heads have almost a 1/4-inch flat spot on them, so I think they're all pretty shot, though JRF and I will talk about them tomorrow. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting ladewd : > Richard, > > I just took a look at a headstack. What you need is the same > mounting block as the erase or TC head to mount these heads. These > blocks were universally used on the erase, TC and 1/2" heads. > > Cary > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #154 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:16 pm Subject: Re: Wide Profile Heads ladewd Offline Send Email If I remember correctly, these heads always had a rather flat contour. Adjusting the wrap was probably the biggest joke in the world, because the area of max amplitude was a mile wide. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > A pity that folks run heads until they are junk, isn't it? So much better, > longer useful life if they just visit Dr. French in a timely manner...... > John does have a way of rescuing ugly looking heads ! > > _____ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Wide Profile Heads > > > Hi, Cary and Scott, > > Thanks for the reply--perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've got 16 of > these > heads (8 record and 8 play) already mounted in 8 APR head assemblies. > > I need some (five would be a good start) of the normal Woelke (Nortronics) > blocks before I go have John French go make 'em in a week or two. While I'd > love to give John the money--he's a nice guy--I'd even more like to keep > half > the money and give the other half to one of you folks for the already made > standard Woelke block. > > I had never seen these before, but now that you've said it, it does make > sense > that they are using the same block as the erase head and 1/2-inch heads. > That > will give John a good base for mounting 1/2-inch 3- and 4-channel heads for > me. > I'm actually going to do it! > > I'm on a bit of a short fuse for at least two of these blocks as I need to > get > moving on some client 4-track tapes and since I was never pleased with the > Otari MTR-12 results, I need to get the FrankenSony working. I've got all > the > parts (I hope all) on order from DigiKey and Mouser due in next week, except > these brackets. Who would have thought that these would be non- standard. > I've > never seen any other APR that looks like this...now I've seen 8. > > Oh and these heads have almost a 1/4-inch flat spot on them, so I think > they're > all pretty shot, though JRF and I will talk about them tomorrow. > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting ladewd : > > > Richard, > > > > I just took a look at a headstack. What you need is the same > > mounting block as the erase or TC head to mount these heads. These > > blocks were universally used on the erase, TC and 1/2" heads. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > /S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1083947063/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/ /companio > n.yahoo.com> click here > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=714836493> > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #155 From: Scott Phillips Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:24 pm Subject: RE: Re: Wide Profile Heads ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Too true. All you could really do was use dye on the heads, set it for a centered pattern, and let it loose. I always found, as with other heads, that if you could check and adjust them again after some hours of use you could dye the heads and do a bit better with the wrap adjustment after the wear in period. Richard, I'd love some details as to your multitrack APR Sony experiment in terror.... :>) [Scott Phillips] -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:17 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Wide Profile Heads If I remember correctly, these heads always had a rather flat contour. Adjusting the wrap was probably the biggest joke in the world, because the area of max amplitude was a mile wide. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > A pity that folks run heads until they are junk, isn't it? So much better, > longer useful life if they just visit Dr. French in a timely manner...... > John does have a way of rescuing ugly looking heads ! > > _____ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Wide Profile Heads > > > Hi, Cary and Scott, > > Thanks for the reply--perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've got 16 of > these > heads (8 record and 8 play) already mounted in 8 APR head assemblies. > > I need some (five would be a good start) of the normal Woelke (Nortronics) > blocks before I go have John French go make 'em in a week or two. While I'd > love to give John the money--he's a nice guy--I'd even more like to keep > half > the money and give the other half to one of you folks for the already made > standard Woelke block. > > I had never seen these before, but now that you've said it, it does make > sense > that they are using the same block as the erase head and 1/2-inch heads. > That > will give John a good base for mounting 1/2-inch 3- and 4-channel heads for > me. > I'm actually going to do it! > > I'm on a bit of a short fuse for at least two of these blocks as I need to > get > moving on some client 4-track tapes and since I was never pleased with the > Otari MTR-12 results, I need to get the FrankenSony working. I've got all > the > parts (I hope all) on order from DigiKey and Mouser due in next week, except > these brackets. Who would have thought that these would be non- standard. > I've > never seen any other APR that looks like this...now I've seen 8. > > Oh and these heads have almost a 1/4-inch flat spot on them, so I think > they're > all pretty shot, though JRF and I will talk about them tomorrow. > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ < http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > Quoting ladewd : > > > Richard, > > > > I just took a look at a headstack. What you need is the same > > mounting block as the erase or TC head to mount these heads. These > > blocks were universally used on the erase, TC and 1/2" heads. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > < http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129vvh79p/M=295196.4901138.6052515.3001176/D =groups > /S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1083947063/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/ /companio > n.yahoo.com> click here > > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l? M=295196.4901138.6052515.3001176/D=groups/S= > :HM/A=2128215/rand=714836493> > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #156 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 6, 2004 11:57 pm Subject: The FrankenSony aka "Richard's experiment in Terror" richardlhess Offline Send Email At 10:24 PM 5/6/2004 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: > I'd love some details as to your multitrack APR Sony experiment in >terror.... :>) Hi, Scott, In my tape transfer business, I do not do multi-tracks which require mixdown as my focus is restoration, but I like to be able to tackle the vast majority of 0.150, 0.250, and 0.500 tapes. I can do 1-8 tracks/channels on 0.150 tapes with Nakamichi Dragons as the mainstay and a Tascam Syncaset 234 and 238 for the 3- 4- and 8- track stuff as well as the Revere cartridges which are two outer tracks (I got the 234 for them). I can do 1- and 2-tracks (including DIN) on both Studer A810s and the APRs. I have Center-track timecode on both the A810s and the main APR-5003Vs. I'm adapting one A810 headstack to be either Neopilot (full-track) or FM Pilot and that will work with an Otari EC-401 resolver. The challenge becomes doing 3- and 4- channel tapes as well as 4-channel 8-track tapes. I have, on several occasions, been asked to recover broken 8-track cartridges "The only surviving copy of my band..." I had several Otari MTR-10s and MTR-12s and after aligning the A810s and the APRs I thought they sucked enough that I dumped them. I needed a 4-channel bed, however, to do many of my 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch "stupid tape recorder tricks" to paraphrase Letterman. I searched and searched and the only possible platforms that presented themselves were two boutique machines which can't be maintained in the manner in which I've become accustomed: read 18 APRs in various conditions and 3 good, one salvageable and one parts A810. These two were the ATR-100 and the A820. They're just boutique-priced (an A820 went for $10K recently) and where do you get A820 parts? So that left me scratching my head and I finally decided that since the APR is a very competent machine and was designed as a switchable 1/4 - 1/2 inch transport, and John French has some of the special parts and has done several conversions, it seemed like the way to go. So, now the problem was how to make an APR-5003V into a 4-channel machine. A few quick tests convinced me that the software engineers had not treated the three channels the same and the one unassigned pin on the head assembly which might have been able to indicate 4-channels was not recognized by the software, so that ruled out "jeeping" a single APR for more than two audio channels. I scratched my head and then looked at my two APRs separated only be a small flatbed scanner and scratched my head. Why not--a small cable ladder that brings the head cable over the takeup tape path on the left tape machine and connects up to two channels in the left machine's head assembly to the electronics in the right machine! Wow! Simplicity in itself. No need to modify either machine! The machine on the right has a "receiver" head stack that has a connector (I'm using the screw-shell version of the DIN connector commonly referred to as the "Tuchel") This head stack will also have a mono 0.200 inch head for playing paper tapes and a switch selecting between the remote or local head on CH 1. The other machine will have the 3- and 4-channel headstacks. See next message for the headstacks... Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #157 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 7, 2004 12:15 am Subject: The FrankenSony Head Assemblies (2) richardlhess Offline Send Email I've decided to make TWO 4-channel 1/4-inch head assemblies for the FrankenSony. One with a 4-track head and one with an 8-track head. Combining the two and making them switchable seemed a bit complex and since I'm getting JRF to mount a height adjuster on the 8-track 4-channel head, that will be easier to have only one head in the block. The two 4-channel 1/4-inch assemblies will be wired the same: Track 1 to host machine CH1 Track 2 to outside machine CH1 Track 4 to outside machine CH2 Host machine CH2 will be through a 3-position rotary switch and can pick up tracks 2, 3, and 4. Obviously when running more than two channels, the switch has to be in the middle position. This will enable me to do Elcasets without using the outside machine (for example). It will also (on the 8-track head) allow easy selection of bands as the height adjuster goes up and down. So, to summarize my current thinking on head assemblies for the APRs: Existing assemblies in service --HS NAB TC for Machine A --HS NAB TC for Machine B --LS NAB TC --1/4-1/8 track stereo (LS) (PLAY ONLY) --DIN Stereo (HS) --FT Mono (HS) New assemblies --8-track, 4-channel with height adjuster (LS) (PLAY ONLY) --4-track, 4-channel (LS) (PLAY ONLY) --200 mil Mono (paper tape) and receiver for other FrankenSony heads (LS) (PLAY ONLY) --3-channel NAB cart and 3-channel TomCat (nominally TR 1 & 2 to host machine), TR 3 to outside machine (?S, probably LS) (PLAY ONLY) --1/2-inch 3- and 4-channel: (HS) (PLAY ONLY) 3CH Mode: CH1 Host machine CH1 CH2 Outside Machine CH1 CH3 Host machine CH2 4CH mode CH1 Host machine CH1 CH2 Host machine CH2 CH3 Outside machine CH1 CH4 Outside machine CH2 I figure for at least checking out 2TR 1/2-inch stereo, I can use the 3-ch assembly (one of the reasons I wired the 3-CH head the way I did)...after all, these are already 100mil tracks...but I guess the 2CH are 200 mil tracks. If I get a call for 1/2-inch 2-channel I'll cross that bridge...Besides, Steve has the Mastering Extended heads on his ATR-100, so perhaps I shouldn't bother since I'm not seeing any of it anyway. But if I can get a good deal on a set of 1/2-inch E/R/P heads, I'll consider assembling a 1/2-inch E/R/P stack. I bought Grayhill rotary switches for the 4-channel 1/4-inch head assemblies and NKK gold toggle switches (same as I used on the Studer conversion) for the toggles. And...I finally decided (I hope it fits) on the Amphenol Tuchel quality DIN connectors (the ones that used to be on Sennheiser mics) for the interconnect--5 pins--two balanced lines and a common shield--between the two machines. ============= For reference, I have the following A810 head assemblies (all three of my working and my one hopefully resurrected A810 have 4-speed motors) NAB TC A NAB TC B NAB TC C Butterfly DIN FT Mono A FT Mono B Neopilot (PLAY ONLY) One spare that might become 1/4-track stereo. (PLAY ONLY) A810s don't change head assemblies as well as A820s (which are incompatible assemblies, as far as I know) as the A820s have the memory like the APRs, and the A810s have only "Tape A" and "Tape B" which could be "Stack A" and "Stack B" =================== I have one special Play Only A807 that has stereo monitor speakers in the overbridge (well, I have a second one of these as a backup) and it is my tape preparation machine. I have installed a 4-channel 1/4-inch head in it, and each channel's "hot" goes to a SPDT center off toggle switch. Up this head goes to CH1 and down it goes to CH2. This way I can determine what's what very quickly on a wide variety of tapes. It is a good substitute for a developer when the level is low (which it is on many of the oral history or family tapes that I transfer. more in the following message Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #158 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 7, 2004 12:19 am Subject: The FrankenSony and other stupid tape recorder tricks (3) richardlhess Offline Send Email Other stupid tape recorder tricks: I use varispeed –50% on the APRs at 3.75 to reproduce 1.88 in/s tapes -- and have an MRL 1.88 in/s alignment tape to align it to. One of my A810s has an externally adjustable azimuth control with a calibration knob. I do 8-track tapes in two passes. I record four channels in one direction, turn the tape over and record the other four channels backwards (I also repatch L-R on both pairs) then I flip the two channels in the computer and presto, all four programs (or two quad programs). When I get the vernier height-adjuster, I'll be able to do them both forward. In addition to the dedicated cassette machines (I actually have four Dragons and an MR1 plus a few other misc machines), I have dedicated machines for DAT (2 Panasonic SV-3800 and a Sony DTC670 and a D8 DAT Walkman), MD (1), DCC (1), CD Recorder (2 Sony CDR-W33), 8-track recorder, 4 channel (Akai). Back to the FrankenSony program--I have been wondering about what to do to cover 14-inch reels--well, you guessed it--I'm planning on outboarding the reel motors on an auxiliary APR-5002 so that I can transfer mainstream 14-inch reel 2-channel recordings without cutting the tape. I don't plan on attempting the 4-channel configurations on 14-inch reels. I'm also planning on leaving a working 5002 in the garage without heads for running very dirty tape and doing the 90% cleaning before putting it on my A807 prep machine. I hope this answers most of your questions about Richard's FrankenSony program and other related topics. With this gear, I feel comfortable that I can tackle almost any project that has 1-8 channels on 0.150 tape, 1-4 channels (in 1-8 tracks) on 0.250 tape, and 2-4 channels on 0.500 tape. I'm leaving the tracking formats such as 8/0.25", 8/0.5", and 16/0.5" to others like Steve Puntolillo at Sonicraft or Dana at Access Audio Services. While I have 8-channels of input to the computer with the RME Multiface, my business plan and marketing tends to not find me these types of tapes. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #159 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 7, 2004 12:32 am Subject: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) richardlhess Offline Send Email Just when you thought it was safe, I thought I'd mention that I have four channels (at least of) Dolby A Dolby SR Dolby B dbx I dbx II Telcom C4d and two channels of Nakamichi High-Com II (the consumer version of Telcom C4d) This is in addition to Dolby B and C in the Dragons and dbx (some flavor) in the 4- and 8-channel Syncasets. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #160 From: Scott Phillips Date: Fri May 7, 2004 8:06 am Subject: RE: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You are truly a dangerous man, Richard !! My kind of guy..... Where did you manage to unearth the Telcom C4d ? -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:32 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) Just when you thought it was safe, I thought I'd mention that I have four channels (at least of) Dolby A Dolby SR Dolby B dbx I dbx II Telcom C4d and two channels of Nakamichi High-Com II (the consumer version of Telcom C4d) This is in addition to Dolby B and C in the Dragons and dbx (some flavor) in the 4- and 8-channel Syncasets. Cheers, Richard _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #161 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 7, 2004 12:54 pm Subject: RE: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks! One pair came from a 3-year search on eBay. The other pair came from a friend who has a 24-track rack but it uses different cards than the Cat-22 sized ones. Not easy stuff to find. Did I answer most of your questions in the four messages ? Can you think of an analog format I'm missing--other than 8-track 1/4 & 1/2 inch and 16 track 1/2 inch? Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > You are truly a dangerous man, Richard !! My kind of guy..... > > Where did you manage to unearth the Telcom C4d ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:32 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) > > > Just when you thought it was safe, I thought I'd mention that I have four > channels (at least of) > Dolby A > Dolby SR > Dolby B > dbx I > dbx II > Telcom C4d > and two channels of > Nakamichi High-Com II (the consumer version of Telcom C4d) > > This is in addition to Dolby B and C in the Dragons and dbx (some flavor) > in the 4- and 8-channel Syncasets. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #162 From: Scott Phillips Date: Fri May 7, 2004 1:06 pm Subject: RE: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Not off hand....! Pretty clear you have thought this all the way out. It might be nice if a programmer from the APR development team managed to find their way to this forum. It might make everyone's job a bit easier. It can't be rocket science as long as no one tinkers with the transport dynamics codes too much... and the source code was around. Cary, Steve, you guys know anyone from that group? I can just imagine what an APR with outboard reel motors would look like. As they say though, necessity is a mother.. oopps! Mother of invention. Hope the reeling tension software doesn't get unhappy with you using larger reels. Have to admit that I never did care for the Otari "sound", at least in the small format machines. Far to much electronics in the way of the audio. It always seemed to me back then that Otari had a bad habit of designing the audio electronics with test equipment instead of ears.... _____ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:54 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) Thanks! One pair came from a 3-year search on eBay. The other pair came from a friend who has a 24-track rack but it uses different cards than the Cat-22 sized ones. Not easy stuff to find. Did I answer most of your questions in the four messages ? Can you think of an analog format I'm missing--other than 8-track 1/4 & 1/2 inch and 16 track 1/2 inch? Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > You are truly a dangerous man, Richard !! My kind of guy..... > > Where did you manage to unearth the Telcom C4d ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:32 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) > > > Just when you thought it was safe, I thought I'd mention that I have four > channels (at least of) > Dolby A > Dolby SR > Dolby B > dbx I > dbx II > Telcom C4d > and two channels of > Nakamichi High-Com II (the consumer version of Telcom C4d) > > This is in addition to Dolby B and C in the Dragons and dbx (some flavor) > in the 4- and 8-channel Syncasets. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > . > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #163 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 7, 2004 2:09 pm Subject: RE: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) richardlhess Offline Send Email Yes, Scott, Source code and help would be very useful--that way, one might even make at least a 3-audio-channel FrankenSony and possibly a 4-channel, although finding room for the extra card would be very challenging. I was always surprised that the machine wasn't designed as a generic 4-channel machine from the ground up. After all, the MCIs were. I hope the transport code survives the 14" reels. The transport logic does quite well with 12.5 inch reels with extra-heavy 6.5mm Magnetophonband Typ L which has embedded iron oxide in PVC--it's probably twice as heavy as standard coated tape. A 6.5mm (slightly oversized from standard 6.35mm) reel of Typ L feels more like a 1/2-inch reel of say Maxell UD50 in weight. Also, if there are challenges with 1/4-inch tape and 14" I'm prepared to tell it that it's a half-inch head assembly and realign the audio parameters. By the way, Studer was a bit more elegant in handling defaults. When you get a new head assembly on the APR, one channel is tweaked one way and the other channel is tweaked the other on some parameters! Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #164 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 8, 2004 11:39 am Subject: Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ladewd Offline Send Email When you get a new head assembly on the APR, one channel is tweaked one way and the other channel is tweaked the other on some parameters! > > Cheers, > > Richard Insider secret: When you put a new head assembly on the machine, press control + store. The default preset alignment will be loaded. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #165 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 8, 2004 11:57 am Subject: Source Code ladewd Offline Send Email Scott, Being in LA. I have lost touch with most of the software guys. I know Ted wound up somewhere in San Diego, but I haven't seen him in 6 years. Tom Graefe told me there was a reunion party last night in Ft. Lauderdale. Of course, I wasn't invited :-( too far of a drive I guess. I talked with Ken Beverly a few days ago, about the prospect of moving back to FL and working with him and Al Flum at Stanton Magnetics, but they were console, not tape guys. The software geeks (and I use the term endearingly) at Sony, were a clique unto themselves, and they didn't hang out with us electronic oriented folk too often. They knew even less about the recording industry than most of the people on the assembly line! I wonder where Don Davis is these days? He might still know something or know where to contact some of the programmers. I think the demise of the engineering staff was so much of a shock to the engineers, that perhaps they may have destroyed the source code, or even worse, sent it to Japan, where it surely was destroyed. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #166 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 8, 2004 11:58 am Subject: Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ladewd Offline Send Email Quick clarification, this only works if there is a "PE" in the ALN display. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > When you get a new head assembly on the APR, one channel is tweaked > one way and the other channel is tweaked the other on some > parameters! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > Insider secret: > > When you put a new head assembly on the machine, press control + > store. The default preset alignment will be loaded. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #167 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sat May 8, 2004 1:36 pm Subject: RE: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Cary, Yeh, that was what I remembered as well about the software guys on APR/PCM, pretty much kept to themselves. Wasn't there a women programmer in there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard disk automation projects..? Say hi to Tom for me if you talk to him again. He was always to me one of the people in engineering that understood that it was about making music or art with the tools they were designing...... not the component count. -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:57 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Source Code Scott, Being in LA. I have lost touch with most of the software guys. I know Ted wound up somewhere in San Diego, but I haven't seen him in 6 years. Tom Graefe told me there was a reunion party last night in Ft. Lauderdale. Of course, I wasn't invited :-( too far of a drive I guess. I talked with Ken Beverly a few days ago, about the prospect of moving back to FL and working with him and Al Flum at Stanton Magnetics, but they were console, not tape guys. The software geeks (and I use the term endearingly) at Sony, were a clique unto themselves, and they didn't hang out with us electronic oriented folk too often. They knew even less about the recording industry than most of the people on the assembly line! I wonder where Don Davis is these days? He might still know something or know where to contact some of the programmers. I think the demise of the engineering staff was so much of a shock to the engineers, that perhaps they may have destroyed the source code, or even worse, sent it to Japan, where it surely was destroyed. Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #168 From: Scott Phillips Date: Sat May 8, 2004 1:37 pm Subject: RE: Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Good one Cary, I'd forgotten that one... -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:58 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) Quick clarification, this only works if there is a "PE" in the ALN display. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > When you get a new head assembly on the APR, one channel is tweaked > one way and the other channel is tweaked the other on some > parameters! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > Insider secret: > > When you put a new head assembly on the machine, press control + > store. The default preset alignment will be loaded. > > Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #169 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat May 8, 2004 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) bae_steve Offline Send Email And, of course, there is no 4 trk etc. setting; and therefore, no software recognition. How many software eng's does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, that's a hardware problem. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #170 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun May 9, 2004 1:00 am Subject: File Attachments richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, I've decided to ALLOW file attachments to this list as long as it isn't abused. I think most of us are probably on high-speed internet today. Please be careful about a virus file that MIGHT slip into this stream. I think you all know the drill. Please do NOT send any EXE or PIF or any executable files. This will allow us to attach little JPEGs and GIFs of things. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #171 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 10:36 am Subject: Re: Source Code ladewd Offline Send Email > Wasn't there a women programmer in > there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard >disk automation projects..? Yeah, there was Rosemary who was in the APR project. Karen Chen was the team leader for the HD automation project. She was crazy, writing her own operating system for the disk, when there was DOS or CPM available. Whew, brings back memories of all the money wasted. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #172 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 10:40 am Subject: Re: The FrankenSony's Playmates...(4) ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > And, of course, there is no 4 trk etc. setting; and therefore, no software recognition. How many software eng's does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, that's a hardware problem. SS Ahh, to be back in the TTL days! Remember that JH800 test fixture? That was an engineering marvel. I think it caused more problems than it solved. It certainly made troubleshooting less intuitive. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #173 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon May 10, 2004 11:28 am Subject: RE: Re: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email For those who may be wondering, the "Stink-Master" was actually the Sony "Sync Master" tape machine smpte synchronizer, the sales objective of which was to have a product that could sync anything to anything. Needless to say, this was an impossible goal for the engineering department. It was produced and sold. It was to work seamlessly across different manufacturers equipment and different formats, including video. The hard disk automation referred to was for the Sony MXP-3000 series professional mixing consoles, and it basically linked to the consoles built in (optional also) tape based automation system so that smpte was used instead. It allowed for on/off-line editing "of sorts". All of this, just historical information...... From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:37 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code > Wasn't there a women programmer in > there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard >disk automation projects..? Yeah, there was Rosemary who was in the APR project. Karen Chen was the team leader for the HD automation project. She was crazy, writing her own operating system for the disk, when there was DOS or CPM available. Whew, brings back memories of all the money wasted. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #174 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon May 10, 2004 11:34 am Subject: RE: Re: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email THAT was the name I was trying to remember. Do you know where she ended up? As for Karen, she WAS nuts to try that... well, maybe just over confident... :>) From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:37 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code > Wasn't there a women programmer in > there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard >disk automation projects..? Yeah, there was Rosemary who was in the APR project. Karen Chen was the team leader for the HD automation project. She was crazy, writing her own operating system for the disk, when there was DOS or CPM available. Whew, brings back memories of all the money wasted. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #175 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 12:50 pm Subject: RE: Re: Source Code richardlhess Offline Send Email My good friends, Ian Kerr and Susi Vayne, who run Kerr-Vayne systems in Toronto wrote their own OS in the late 70s for real time applications when one wasn't available. I think it ran on small DECs. It was simple, but was real time. So, maybe Karen wasn't totally nuts . Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > THAT was the name I was trying to remember. Do you know where she ended up? > > As for Karen, she WAS nuts to try that... well, maybe just over confident... > :>) > > _____ > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:37 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code > > > > Wasn't there a women programmer in > > there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard > >disk automation projects..? > > Yeah, there was Rosemary who was in the APR project. Karen Chen was > the team leader for the HD automation project. She was crazy, > writing her own operating system for the disk, when there was DOS or > CPM available. Whew, brings back memories of all the money wasted. > > Cary > > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #176 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon May 10, 2004 2:18 pm Subject: RE: Re: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email There is another company 'up north' that makes a fine real time OS called QNX. Good for robotics, the space shuttle, Cisco uses it some, and, strangely, audiotext systems. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:51 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code My good friends, Ian Kerr and Susi Vayne, who run Kerr-Vayne systems in Toronto wrote their own OS in the late 70s for real time applications when one wasn't available. I think it ran on small DECs. It was simple, but was real time. So, maybe Karen wasn't totally nuts . Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > THAT was the name I was trying to remember. Do you know where she ended up? > > As for Karen, she WAS nuts to try that... well, maybe just over confident... > :>) > > _____ > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:37 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code > > > > Wasn't there a women programmer in > > there somewhere..? Or am I thinking about the Stink-Master or hard > >disk automation projects..? > > Yeah, there was Rosemary who was in the APR project. Karen Chen was > the team leader for the HD automation project. She was crazy, > writing her own operating system for the disk, when there was DOS or > CPM available. Whew, brings back memories of all the money wasted. > > Cary > > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #177 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 3:38 pm Subject: Re: Source Code ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > THAT was the name I was trying to remember. Do you know where she ended up? Tongue in cheek humour: Rosemary had a baby and left the company. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #178 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 3:42 pm Subject: Re: Source Code ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > There is another company 'up north' that makes a fine real time OS called > QNX. Good for robotics, the space shuttle, Cisco uses it some, and, > strangely, audiotext systems. Sony used QNX for the DMX-R100 series consoles which were developed about 3 years ago. Nice small OS which fit neatly inside of ROM. A very rare thing these days. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #179 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon May 10, 2004 4:27 pm Subject: RE: Re: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Ohhhhhhhhhh...... -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:39 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > THAT was the name I was trying to remember. Do you know where she ended up? Tongue in cheek humour: Rosemary had a baby and left the company. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #180 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon May 10, 2004 4:35 pm Subject: RE: Re: Source Code ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...somewhere along the passage of years I've become quite familiar with QNX, to the point I have to write software for it every few weeks. Too long a story for here. It is nice, a fully scalable kernel, so it can be fast as lightning if it is set up properly for what it is being used for. The kernel I work with most often is about 4k...and about the most crash-resistant OS I've ever seen. The syntax is just enough like UNIX to confuse the innocent or unwary... :>) -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:43 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Source Code --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > There is another company 'up north' that makes a fine real time OS called > QNX. Good for robotics, the space shuttle, Cisco uses it some, and, > strangely, audiotext systems. Sony used QNX for the DMX-R100 series consoles which were developed about 3 years ago. Nice small OS which fit neatly inside of ROM. A very rare thing these days. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #181 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 10, 2004 5:55 pm Subject: Re: Source Code ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Scott Phillips wrote: > ...somewhere along the passage of years I've become quite familiar with QNX, to the point I have to write software for it every few weeks. Too long a story for here. It is nice, a fully scalable kernel, so it can be fast as lightning if it is set up properly for what it is being used for. The kernel I work with most often is about 4k...and about the most crash-resistant OS I've ever seen. The syntax is just enough like UNIX to confuse the innocent or unwary... :>) Yep, it is pretty bullet-proof. I don't have much experience in programming QNX, just some file manipulation. I've gotten pretty good at UNIX and linux over the years though (Oxford stuff). I have a linux server here in the house thats been up pretty much 24/7 for the last 3 years. I took it down twice to replace the CPU fan and power supply. I've never had a crash, but then I don't run it in graphic mode either. Bill gates should take lessons from these OS's. Although I hear he ripped off some linux/unix code. Wonder why windoze crashes so often? Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #182 From: "allegrosound" Date: Sun Jul 4, 2004 3:29 pm Subject: WTB: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR allegrosound Offline Send Email WANTED: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play headstack or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR-5002/3 (or complete machine) WANTED by AllegroSound , Los Angeles CA, tel.818.377.5274, http://www.AllegroSound.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #183 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 9:08 am Subject: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) We're now rather broke but what the heck! 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here can shed light on a few things for me. First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but where abouts in the production run was it? Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual please contact me. Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in the uk! If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive wind!) many thanks in advance, Kris. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #184 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 10:22 am Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I suspect that Kerry can best help with your alignment questions, and perhaps Steve on the position in the production run. Regrettably, it has been many moons since I've done an alignment on the beast. It wouldn't be a problem for me if I was sitting in front of an APR, since over the years I must have done thousands of them... but I'd need the visual cues to trip off the memories.... except for the display and up/down setting arrangements, an analog audio recorder is an audio recorder. Same basic adjustments and considerations always apply for regular alignments. Transport and mechanical, well, that is a different story. I'd guess someone here might be nice enough to Xerox the standard alignment portion of the manual for you though. THAT part isn't that much.... :>) I would do so if I had a copy of the manual myself. I have most of the Sony mixer manuals and all the JH series recorder manuals, but not the APR. Cheers... Scott From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@...] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 8:09 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) We're now rather broke but what the heck! 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here can shed light on a few things for me. First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but where abouts in the production run was it? Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual please contact me. Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in the uk! If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive wind!) many thanks in advance, Kris. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #185 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 10:33 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Kris, I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. First, take the test tape: Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the azimuth and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which group) for the speed. Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, using the play head as the reference. Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the playback to -6 on the VU meter. Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing freq response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the channel assignment buttons. Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > can shed light on a few things for me. > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > where abouts in the production run was it? > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > please contact me. > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > the uk! > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > wind!) > > many thanks in advance, > Kris. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #186 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 10:59 pm Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email To all...... Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with me... The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... anybody interested? Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Hello, Kris, I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. First, take the test tape: Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the azimuth and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which group) for the speed. Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, using the play head as the reference. Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the playback to -6 on the VU meter. Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing freq response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the channel assignment buttons. Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > can shed light on a few things for me. > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > where abouts in the production run was it? > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > please contact me. > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > the uk! > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > wind!) > > many thanks in advance, > Kris. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #187 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 11:30 pm Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Manuals Available. richardlhess Offline Send Email Scott, I just did that and am wondering how to make it available. At my day job we have a Xerox copier that makes PDF files. The whole manual with a few interesting supplements is about 160MB. B-sized drawings are B-sized in the PDF... Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a little money for CD copies to cover the time and effort of making them and mailing them out. I must have a serial number of a machine from you because Sony has restricted this to owners of APRs for use in maintaining their machines. So, as I read this, Sony controls the IP rights, but are making them available to users of the machines. Since Sony doesn't have the manuals anymore AFAIK, then I'm just helping them (and the users) out. It may take me a while to get to getting them out as more news will be forthcoming shortly. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > To all...... > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me > feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an > offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with > me... > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed > printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan > in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole > thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I > have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants > to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if > there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of > people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it > is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam > money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... > anybody interested? > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > Hello, Kris, > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > First, take the test tape: > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the > azimuth > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which > group) > for the speed. > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > using the play head as the reference. > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the > playback > to -6 on the VU meter. > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing > freq > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the > channel > assignment buttons. > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > please contact me. > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > the uk! > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > wind!) > > > > many thanks in advance, > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #188 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 11:31 pm Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A SAMPLE MANUAL richardlhess Offline Send Email Oh, and see http://www.richardhess.com/be/APR5003V-Part01-Sec4.pdf for a sample (the alignment section). Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > To all...... > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me > feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an > offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with > me... > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed > printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan > in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole > thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I > have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants > to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if > there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of > people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it > is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam > money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... > anybody interested? > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > Hello, Kris, > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > First, take the test tape: > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the > azimuth > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which > group) > for the speed. > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > using the play head as the reference. > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the > playback > to -6 on the VU meter. > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing > freq > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the > channel > assignment buttons. > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > please contact me. > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > the uk! > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > wind!) > > > > many thanks in advance, > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #189 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 11:41 pm Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Manuals Available. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I have no need of the manual myself. I can see we are thinking along the same lines here anyway. If you want to make some rational money for the time and trouble, I can't see any problem in it at all. I just wanted to be helpful... but you were way ahead of me. :>) From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Manuals Available. Scott, I just did that and am wondering how to make it available. At my day job we have a Xerox copier that makes PDF files. The whole manual with a few interesting supplements is about 160MB. B-sized drawings are B-sized in the PDF... Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a little money for CD copies to cover the time and effort of making them and mailing them out. I must have a serial number of a machine from you because Sony has restricted this to owners of APRs for use in maintaining their machines. So, as I read this, Sony controls the IP rights, but are making them available to users of the machines. Since Sony doesn't have the manuals anymore AFAIK, then I'm just helping them (and the users) out. It may take me a while to get to getting them out as more news will be forthcoming shortly. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > To all...... > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me > feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an > offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with > me... > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed > printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan > in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole > thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I > have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants > to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if > there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of > people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it > is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam > money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... > anybody interested? > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > Hello, Kris, > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > First, take the test tape: > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the > azimuth > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which > group) > for the speed. > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > using the play head as the reference. > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the > playback > to -6 on the VU meter. > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing > freq > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the > channel > assignment buttons. > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > please contact me. > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > the uk! > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > wind!) > > > > many thanks in advance, > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #190 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 8, 2004 11:57 pm Subject: RE: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Manuals Available. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You are a good man, Richard. If someone can make this available that is all one can ask. I could provide a valid serial number, but really that would be skirting the point, as personally I don't need the manual. I'm willing to be helpful in any reasonable way to make this available to those that need it. Legalities aside, folks like this lady are the ones that keep a very nice sounding piece of hardware alive. I am willing to absorb the cost of making a reasonable number of CD copies ( <25 ) of the data if it is made available (even in encrypted form) to me. Postage would be the requestor's responsibility. Again, I have no interest in making money... gotta cover my gas to take them to Fedx though... :>) From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A Manuals Available. Scott, I just did that and am wondering how to make it available. At my day job we have a Xerox copier that makes PDF files. The whole manual with a few interesting supplements is about 160MB. B-sized drawings are B-sized in the PDF... Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a little money for CD copies to cover the time and effort of making them and mailing them out. I must have a serial number of a machine from you because Sony has restricted this to owners of APRs for use in maintaining their machines. So, as I read this, Sony controls the IP rights, but are making them available to users of the machines. Since Sony doesn't have the manuals anymore AFAIK, then I'm just helping them (and the users) out. It may take me a while to get to getting them out as more news will be forthcoming shortly. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > To all...... > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me > feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an > offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with > me... > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed > printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan > in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole > thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I > have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants > to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if > there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of > people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it > is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam > money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... > anybody interested? > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > Hello, Kris, > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > First, take the test tape: > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the > azimuth > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which > group) > for the speed. > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > using the play head as the reference. > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the > playback > to -6 on the VU meter. > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing > freq > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the > channel > assignment buttons. > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > please contact me. > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > the uk! > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > wind!) > > > > many thanks in advance, > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #191 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:28 pm Subject: Accuracy or musicality? alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and making part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll definitely be wanting a copy of the CDROM. `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in almost- perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get there though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed now I think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, welcome back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when playing at loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu meters after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a led peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic amps (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by someone else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears quickly compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end of tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the tape lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But I can live with that. Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it makes the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to give an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD and have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done Jazz or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give some warmth and never had any complaints! Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase when compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, and again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want `accuracy' then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and a 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of the letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed model though, as I guess most of them were. Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts has been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your reminiscences and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 for sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 for example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to see what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the 5000 series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 and an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. Kris. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #192 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:26 pm Subject: Re: Accuracy or musicality? newmedia@... Send Email Kris: What some call a K-1183, some others call a PCM-3402 . . . I've got two of them (as well as one of the PCM-3202's and about 60 miles of DASH tape) and, if you've read the earlier posts, you'll recall that the 3402 was designed after the APR's in an attempt to capture a piece of the studio market -- presumably as a mixdown machine in the newly digital audio world. I hope "jayw888" (the high bidder at the moment) knows what he's getting into . . . Seems that these machines might have passed through this auction -- http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:TdsBtLTDZWIJ:www.karner.de/en/productlist.asp%3FsBranchID%3D2218+Sony+DAF+4000&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #193 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:54 pm Subject: RE: Accuracy or musicality? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is normally a bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration I think. 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. The top end at 30 ips is very nice though. Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very musical sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way around. :>) You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it being an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to the heads without touching. From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@...] Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and making part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll definitely be wanting a copy of the CDROM. `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in almost- perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get there though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed now I think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, welcome back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when playing at loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu meters after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a led peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic amps (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by someone else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears quickly compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end of tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the tape lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But I can live with that. Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it makes the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to give an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD and have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done Jazz or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give some warmth and never had any complaints! Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase when compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, and again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want `accuracy' then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and a 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of the letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed model though, as I guess most of them were. Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts has been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your reminiscences and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 for sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 for example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to see what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the 5000 series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 and an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. Kris. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #194 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:23 am Subject: Re: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A ladewd Offline Send Email Sorry Scott, its been so quiet around here I stopped checking the messages. My bad. I'm sure I have a manual here I can part with. Let me look around. I just did a mass cleaning and got rid of an awful lot of manuals, but I know I kept the APR stuff. I was trying to find some schematics for a summing buss I'm building and I unfortunately realized I threw out all my console manuals except for the 400, 500 600, and 800. I really wanted a 2000 or 2900 manual. Anyway, if you're still interested, drop me an email and I will try and get a manual to you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > To all...... > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with me... > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... anybody interested? > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > Hello, Kris, > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > First, take the test tape: > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re-use the azimuth > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which group) > for the speed. > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > using the play head as the reference. > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the playback > to -6 on the VU meter. > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing freq > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the channel > assignment buttons. > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > please contact me. > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > the uk! > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > wind!) > > > > many thanks in advance, > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #195 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:27 am Subject: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ladewd Offline Send Email I saw this one on ebay. I was a little confused what it was until I saw the picture. If APR parts are hard to get I would imagine parts for this would be next to impossible. BTW, we threw on of these out in Cypress prior to moving the office to Burbank. They were sneaky, they did it while I was on vacation. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Kris: > > What some call a K-1183, some others call a PCM-3402 . . . I've got two of > them (as well as one of the PCM-3202's and about 60 miles of DASH tape) and, if > you've read the earlier posts, you'll recall that the 3402 was designed after > the APR's in an attempt to capture a piece of the studio market -- presumably > as a mixdown machine in the newly digital audio world. > > I hope "jayw888" (the high bidder at the moment) knows what he's getting into > . . . > > Seems that these machines might have passed through this auction -- > > http://216.239.51.104/search? q=cache:TdsBtLTDZWIJ:www.karner.de/en/productlist > .asp%3FsBranchID%3D2218+Sony+DAF+4000&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #196 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:50 am Subject: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Kris, As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get it right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more detailed instructions, let me know. As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the MVC center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will remember this one). That was only because one of our larger customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply just use tape to make the adjustments. The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a video reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the operation when using a video editor, are the only differences between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer machines. You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. I hope you're enjoying your new machine. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is normally a > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration I think. > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. The top > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very musical > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way around. > :>) > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it being > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to the > heads without touching. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and making > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll definitely be > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in almost- > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get there > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed now I > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, welcome > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when playing at > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu meters > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a led > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic amps > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by someone > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears quickly > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end of > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the tape > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But I > can live with that. > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it makes > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to give > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD and > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done Jazz > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give some > warmth and never had any complaints! > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase when > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, and > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want `accuracy' > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and a > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of the > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed model > though, as I guess most of them were. > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts has > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your reminiscences > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 for > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 for > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to see > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the 5000 > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 and > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > Kris. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #197 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:05 am Subject: Re: WTB: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR ladewd Offline Send Email Rick, Wish I could help you out, since I'm in the LA area, but I don't have or know of any 1/4 track heads for the APR5000. I do have quite a few replacement heads for the machine though, so if you're ever interested in them let me know. If you can find any MCI JH110B or C 1/4 track heads, they will work. If you can locate the heads and need assistance in installing them, I can help. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "allegrosound" wrote: > WANTED: > 1/4" > 1/4-trk-Stereo Play headstack > or 4-trk-Play headstack > for Sony APR-5002/3 > (or complete machine) > WANTED by AllegroSound , > Los Angeles CA, > tel.818.377.5274, > http://www.AllegroSound.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #198 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:14 am Subject: RE: Re: WTB: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Seems like a job for John French, doesn't it? From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:06 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR Rick, Wish I could help you out, since I'm in the LA area, but I don't have or know of any 1/4 track heads for the APR5000. I do have quite a few replacement heads for the machine though, so if you're ever interested in them let me know. If you can find any MCI JH110B or C 1/4 track heads, they will work. If you can locate the heads and need assistance in installing them, I can help. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "allegrosound" wrote: > WANTED: > 1/4" > 1/4-trk-Stereo Play headstack > or 4-trk-Play headstack > for Sony APR-5002/3 > (or complete machine) > WANTED by AllegroSound , > Los Angeles CA, > tel.818.377.5274, > http://www.AllegroSound.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #199 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:11 am Subject: Re: APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A SAMPLE MANUAL ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, I hope all is going well. If you need someone to host the pdf of the manual, I have a ftp I would gladly share with the users here. Let me know if you want to do something like that. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Oh, and see > http://www.richardhess.com/be/APR5003V-Part01-Sec4.pdf for a sample (the > alignment section). > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > Quoting Scott Phillips : > > > To all...... > > > > Can't speak for the rest of you, but the requests for manuals are making me > > feel pretty guilty.... I know what they mean to most of these folks. So....an > > offer. Just that requires a little trust but if anyone will chance it with > > me... > > > > > > The company I work at has several of those very large auto feed > > printer/copier/scanner/fax machines. I'm willing to do the leg work to scan > > in an entire APR manual. Perhaps the smartest thing is to make the whole > > thing into a PDF file... easy to email, burn on a CD, or just use as is. I > > have no manual to do this with, so it is a matter of trust if someone wants > > to send me one to scan in. I'll pay return shipping on the original manual if > > there are any takers.... I really only want to address the large number of > > people that need these manuals, and it is an excellent machine. A pity if it > > is a lack of data that makes them unusable. I'm too old to want to scam > > money for a manual form someone good hearted... Anyway, I can only offer... > > anybody interested? > > > > Hope Sony has a sense of history... :>) > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:33 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR5003 Sn 21115 build 88A > > > > > > Hello, Kris, > > > > > > I'm away from my machines right now, so this is from memory...how I do it. > > > > First, take the test tape: > > > > Adjust (physical) azimuth of the play head at 8K and 16K > > > > Also listen to the voice and do the prelim alignment on that. > > > > Then I set reference level on the meter (PB Level) and then re- use the > > azimuth > > and RGC at 8K and 16K to try and set the machine for flat playback. > > > > Shift-Store-Register is the way it works where Register is A/B/C (which > > group) > > for the speed. > > > > Record Gap Compensator is shift and the button with the blue RGC. > > > > I don't normally align for record, but you need to do record azimuth first, > > using the play head as the reference. > > > > Since you have a known test tape, you can set the playback level for anything > > you want and then adjust the record level to match. If your test tape is 250 > > nWb/m and you want to set the record level for 500 nWb/m then set the > > playback > > to -6 on the VU meter. > > > > Note that you can use the uncal pot to adjust the playback to 0 for doing > > freq > > response runs etc. Also note that the uncal will reset with some of the > > channel > > assignment buttons. > > > > Spare headstacks usually come with spare machines. In fact, I got a bunch of > > machines and some were already missing headstacks. I'm sorry I don't have any > > spare headstacks--I've got them all oddly configured . > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > -- > > > > Richard L. Hess > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > > > Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > > > > > Hi. I'm a mature student in Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK and have just > > > taken delivery of 21115 from Northern Ireland. No big deal you might > > > think. Well to me it is! My Partner and I love listening to all kinds > > > of music, and I've done some live recording in the past M/S straight > > > to DAT or Alesis Masterdisk - mostly Jazz and big band. Many years > > > ago I had a Sony domestic open reel recorder, but it developed a > > > mechanical fault and I junked it. Ever since then I've longed for > > > another one, and when this opportunity came last month, I had to bid. > > > Closing price was £140 sterling +VAT and postage. (£205 all together) > > > We're now rather broke but what the heck! > > > > > > > > > 21115 (which we've already nicknamed 'the beast') is in excellent > > > condition electrically, logically, and mechanically, serviced in 2001 > > > with new heads (And they do lolok new rather than re-lapped). The > > > hour meter is barely off the starting block, but I don't know if it > > > resets itself when it gets to 5000 hours, so it might have had some > > > heavy use. Structurally it's also very good, paintwork has rubbed off > > > a bit in the usual places, but no dents or anything. > > > > > > In other words, I'm very pleased I've bought a good one. > > > > > > I've read through the back posts here with great interest, but, as > > > you can imagine, I have many many questions, so I hope someone here > > > can shed light on a few things for me. > > > > > > First question, 21115 build 88A is obviously a 1988 machine, but > > > where abouts in the production run was it? > > > > > > Instruction manual. AGGHHH! I need one but can't afford one. Yes I > > > know there's one on ebay for sale at the moment but we're out of > > > funds. If anyone is interested the item no's are 3734595378 or > > > 3734595296. Yes I know they are a bargain but when you figure in the > > > cost of postage from the US to the UK ($25) there's no way at ther > > > moment. In a month or so maybe. A few posts here suggested that > > > someone might scan the manual and put it on CDrom. If so can that > > > person, or anyone with a copy (original or optherwise) of the manual > > > please contact me. > > > > > > Once I've got a copy of the instructions most of my questions will be > > > answered, otherwise it's a case of playing with it until I figure out > > > what all the buttons do. or finding one of you who are willing to > > > give me a lesson over the phone, or in person if anyone else is in > > > the uk! > > > > > > If I can't get a copy of the manual, then I'm gonna be asking you > > > some more questions! The main one being how to callibrate the beast > > > for Quantegy tape (and which type of tape, 499? 456? or one of the > > > other ones? At the moment preset three looks empty, preset 1 is set > > > for Scotch L226,NAB eq on the two slow speeds, AES eq on 30ips; > > > preset 2 for tape type '200' whatever that is ( 400 flux, IEC eq with > > > a -3dB@10kHz overbias) Are these two settings pretty standard? > > > > > > For the future, I'd like to add a 4 track 2 channel head in another > > > head block, but I suppose spare head blocks are hard to come by? > > > > > > Anyway, I'm glad this group exists, there's some excellent posts here > > > that I'm gonna go read again (and at least I now know how to archive > > > wind!) > > > > > > many thanks in advance, > > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > . > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #200 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:23 am Subject: RE: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email This lines up with what I remember about the lifters as well. It seems to me that some contact during wind with the erase head only was allowed because it was ceramic. Can't say I ever agreed with that personally. It was red leader, because the infrared EOT sensor could 'see' through the red tape better. That made the adjustment tighter than it might be with white leader or tape. It WAS because of a particular customer having that problem. Might have been NBC... ? From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:51 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? Hi Kris, As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get it right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more detailed instructions, let me know. As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the MVC center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will remember this one). That was only because one of our larger customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply just use tape to make the adjustments. The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a video reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the operation when using a video editor, are the only differences between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer machines. You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. I hope you're enjoying your new machine. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is normally a > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration I think. > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. The top > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very musical > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way around. > :>) > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it being > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to the > heads without touching. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and making > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll definitely be > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in almost- > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get there > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed now I > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, welcome > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when playing at > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu meters > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a led > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic amps > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by someone > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears quickly > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end of > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the tape > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But I > can live with that. > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it makes > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to give > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD and > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done Jazz > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give some > warmth and never had any complaints! > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase when > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, and > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want `accuracy' > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and a > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of the > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed model > though, as I guess most of them were. > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts has > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your reminiscences > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 for > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 for > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to see > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the 5000 > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 and > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > Kris. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #201 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:47 am Subject: Re: Re: WTB: 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play or 4-trk-Play headstack for Sony APR allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Cary: Thank you for your reply. Please give me a call at your convenience. Best regards, Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 http://www.AllegroSound.com ladewd wrote: Rick, Wish I could help you out, since I'm in the LA area, but I don't have or know of any 1/4 track heads for the APR5000. I do have quite a few replacement heads for the machine though, so if you're ever interested in them let me know. If you can find any MCI JH110B or C 1/4 track heads, they will work. If you can locate the heads and need assistance in installing them, I can help. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "allegrosound" wrote: > > WANTED: > 1/4" 1/4-trk-Stereo Play headstack, or > 1/4" 4-track-Play headstack > for Sony APR-5002/3 > (or complete machine) > WANTED by AllegroSound , > Los Angeles CA, > tel.818.377.5274, > http://www.AllegroSound.com Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #202 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:46 pm Subject: Re: Richard's Move...manuals richardlhess Offline Send Email As some of you already know, I'm going into tape restoration full-time. I've given notice at National TeleConsultants and expect to wind down there in the next two weeks or so, but perhaps keeping a background level of work going--I'm not sure. Cary, I THINK I have a 2000 or 2900 manual, but I won't have time to look for it until after the move. The big blue NA Van Lines truck is coming August 16th and, if anything, I have more junk than you. The APR-16 is being separately crated for the move, to ease any fears you may have about that. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #203 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:54 pm Subject: Re: Richard's Move...manuals richardlhess Offline Send Email I should have added that I've bought a home in my wife's hometown of Aurora, Ontario, which has a large basement that will be the hub of my worldwide enterprise . Cheers, Richard At 10:46 AM 7/15/2004 -0700, you wrote: >As some of you already know, I'm going into tape restoration full-time. >I've given notice at National TeleConsultants and expect to wind down there >in the next two weeks or so, but perhaps keeping a background level of work >going--I'm not sure. > >Cary, I THINK I have a 2000 or 2900 manual, but I won't have time to look >for it until after the move. The big blue NA Van Lines truck is coming >August 16th and, if anything, I have more junk than you. The APR-16 is >being separately crated for the move, to ease any fears you may have about >that. > >Cheers, > >Richard > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #204 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:37 pm Subject: RE: Richard's Move...manuals ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think I have one too Richard, and it might be easier for me to get at than you. Let me look... From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 12:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Richard's Move...manuals As some of you already know, I'm going into tape restoration full-time. I've given notice at National TeleConsultants and expect to wind down there in the next two weeks or so, but perhaps keeping a background level of work going--I'm not sure. Cary, I THINK I have a 2000 or 2900 manual, but I won't have time to look for it until after the move. The big blue NA Van Lines truck is coming August 16th and, if anything, I have more junk than you. The APR-16 is being separately crated for the move, to ease any fears you may have about that. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #205 From: newmedia@... Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:00 pm Subject: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! newmedia@... Send Email Folks: Not bad at all . . . !! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863&rd=1 And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341&rd=1 Best, Mark Stahlman New Media Laboratory New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #206 From: Gordon Rice Date: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:12 pm Subject: Re: Nice APR-24 & weird Brit machines worthlesshippie Offline Send Email Hey hey-- That APR-24 *does* look really sweet . . . The English machine reminds me *slightly* of a Soundcraft 760 that I wanted to dropkick out of the building several years ago, but the console doesn't look Soundcraft at all--I just dunno. Anybody else have any ideas? --gmr > >Folks: > >Not bad at all . . . !! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863& >rd=1 > >And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341& >rd=1 > >Best, > >Mark Stahlman >New Media Laboratory >New York City > Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #207 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:08 am Subject: Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! richardlhess Offline Send Email The APR 24 is a wonderful machine--he says as the proud owner of the only APR 16 ever made! The heads on that one look in great shape. At 09:00 PM 7/15/2004 -0400, you wrote: Folks: Not bad at all . . . !! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863&rd=1 And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341&rd=1 Best, Mark Stahlman New Media Laboratory New York City Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #208 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:47 am Subject: APR-5003V manual available richardlhess Offline Send Email OK, Here's the scoop. I have placed the APR-5003V on my Web server for all of you to download. I have a problem. I have 40GB of bandwidth a month. I normally use less than 5GB. That leaves 35GB for the manual this month. That means I can accommodate about 150 downloads per month. I'd prefer not to cut it that close. Please only download it once. Go to http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ user apr password 5003v Enjoy, on me! If I see usage getting too high, I will change the password. I would appreciate an email from each of you so I know who got it. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #209 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:55 am Subject: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ladewd Offline Send Email Yep it was NBC, but who's naming names ;-) Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > This lines up with what I remember about the lifters as well. It seems > to me that some contact during wind with the erase head only was allowed > because it was ceramic. Can't say I ever agreed with that personally. > > It was red leader, because the infrared EOT sensor could 'see' through > the red tape better. That made the adjustment tighter than it might be > with white leader or tape. It WAS because of a particular customer > having that problem. Might have been NBC... ? > > ________________________________ > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:51 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? > > > Hi Kris, > > As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I > remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter > assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire > plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get it > right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the > headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the > obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. > Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of > the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more > detailed instructions, let me know. > > As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the > side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the MVC > center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't > remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC > center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up > and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT > pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and > adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader > tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will > remember this one). That was only because one of our larger > customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply just > use tape to make the adjustments. > > The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a video > reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the > operation when using a video editor, are the only differences > between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer > machines. > > You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: > http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm > > I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. > > I hope you're enjoying your new machine. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > wrote: > > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is > normally a > > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration I > think. > > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. > The top > > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very > musical > > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way > around. > > :>) > > > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it > being > > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to > the > > heads without touching. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and > making > > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll definitely > be > > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in almost- > > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get > there > > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed now > I > > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, welcome > > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when playing > at > > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu meters > > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a > led > > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic amps > > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by > someone > > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears > quickly > > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end of > > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the > tape > > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But I > > can live with that. > > > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it > makes > > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to > give > > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD > and > > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done > Jazz > > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give > some > > warmth and never had any complaints! > > > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase when > > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, and > > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want `accuracy' > > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and a > > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of > the > > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed > model > > though, as I guess most of them were. > > > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts > has > > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your reminiscences > > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 for > > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 > for > > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to see > > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the 5000 > > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 > and > > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > 56/ > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* > htt > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > html> > > > > M=288055.5065207.6192285.2127756/D=group > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089989468/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=493268880> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #210 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:58 am Subject: Re: Richard's Move...manuals ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, Good luck with your new endeavor. I wish you the most success with it. Toronto sounds great! I wish I was moving back to Ft. Lauderdale, but it doesn't look like I have the cooperation of the wife and kids. I have to go in for surgery on my ankle in a couple of weeks and will be in a cast for about 3 months (tendon work). Please keep in touch, and if there's ever anything I can help you with, just drop me a line. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > As some of you already know, I'm going into tape restoration full- time. > I've given notice at National TeleConsultants and expect to wind down there > in the next two weeks or so, but perhaps keeping a background level of work > going--I'm not sure. > > Cary, I THINK I have a 2000 or 2900 manual, but I won't have time to look > for it until after the move. The big blue NA Van Lines truck is coming > August 16th and, if anything, I have more junk than you. The APR- 16 is > being separately crated for the move, to ease any fears you may have about > that. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #211 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:59 am Subject: Re: Richard's Move...manuals ladewd Offline Send Email I'm sorry, I always get Ontario mixed up with Tornoto. I'm just a stupid American! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > I should have added that I've bought a home in my wife's hometown of > Aurora, Ontario, which has a large basement that will be the hub of my > worldwide enterprise . > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 10:46 AM 7/15/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > >As some of you already know, I'm going into tape restoration full- time. > >I've given notice at National TeleConsultants and expect to wind down there > >in the next two weeks or so, but perhaps keeping a background level of work > >going--I'm not sure. > > > >Cary, I THINK I have a 2000 or 2900 manual, but I won't have time to look > >for it until after the move. The big blue NA Van Lines truck is coming > >August 16th and, if anything, I have more junk than you. The APR- 16 is > >being separately crated for the move, to ease any fears you may have about > >that. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #212 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:00 am Subject: Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! ladewd Offline Send Email WOW, nice deal and with SR no less. Lets see where its at in a few days though. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Folks: > > Not bad at all . . . !! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863& > rd=1 > > And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341& > rd=1 > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New Media Laboratory > New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #213 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:02 am Subject: Re: Re: Accuracy or musicality? richardlhess Offline Send Email By the way, the CBS machines were the NBC/Westwood one machines (oh joy). Anyway, I'll be picking them up in about two months, probably, but I got the headblocks to JRF. Cheers, Richard At 05:55 AM 7/16/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Yep it was NBC, but who's naming names ;-) > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" >wrote: > > This lines up with what I remember about the lifters as well. It >seems > > to me that some contact during wind with the erase head only was >allowed > > because it was ceramic. Can't say I ever agreed with that >personally. > > > > It was red leader, because the infrared EOT sensor could 'see' >through > > the red tape better. That made the adjustment tighter than it >might be > > with white leader or tape. It WAS because of a particular customer > > having that problem. Might have been NBC... ? > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:51 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > Hi Kris, > > > > As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I > > remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter > > assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire > > plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get >it > > right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the > > headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the > > obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. > > Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of > > the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more > > detailed instructions, let me know. > > > > As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the > > side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the >MVC > > center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't > > remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC > > center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up > > and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT > > pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and > > adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader > > tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will > > remember this one). That was only because one of our larger > > customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply >just > > use tape to make the adjustments. > > > > The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a >video > > reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the > > operation when using a video editor, are the only differences > > between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer > > machines. > > > > You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: > > http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm > > > > I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. > > > > I hope you're enjoying your new machine. > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is > > normally a > > > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration >I > > think. > > > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. > > The top > > > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > > > > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > > > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very > > musical > > > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way > > around. > > > :>) > > > > > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it > > being > > > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to > > the > > > heads without touching. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > > > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and > > making > > > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll >definitely > > be > > > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > > > > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in >almost- > > > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get > > there > > > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed >now > > I > > > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, >welcome > > > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when >playing > > at > > > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > > > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu >meters > > > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a > > led > > > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic >amps > > > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > > > > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by > > someone > > > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears > > quickly > > > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end >of > > > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the > > tape > > > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But >I > > > can live with that. > > > > > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > > > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it > > makes > > > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to > > give > > > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD > > and > > > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done > > Jazz > > > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give > > some > > > warmth and never had any complaints! > > > > > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase >when > > > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > > > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, >and > > > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want >`accuracy' > > > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > > > > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and >a > > > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of > > the > > > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed > > model > > > though, as I guess most of them were. > > > > > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts > > has > > > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your >reminiscences > > > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 >for > > > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 > > for > > > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to >see > > > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the >5000 > > > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 > > and > > > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > > > > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > > 56/ > > > > > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* > > htt > > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > > html> > > > > > > > M=288055.5065207.6192285.2127756/D=group > > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms >of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > >56/> >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089989468/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* >htt > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- >56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > html> > > > > M=288055.5197530.6311986.2127756/D=group> >s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=493268880> > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #214 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:06 am Subject: Re: APR-5003V manual available ladewd Offline Send Email Thanks Richard, I'm downloading it to my server as I write. I will gladly split the responsibility with you. My server isn't as fast as yours, but it works. I haven't run into any brick walls as far as bandwidth yet, although I'm sure they'll say something to me if it gets too far out of hand. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > OK, > > Here's the scoop. I have placed the APR-5003V on my Web server for all of > you to download. > > I have a problem. I have 40GB of bandwidth a month. I normally use less > than 5GB. That leaves 35GB for the manual this month. > > That means I can accommodate about 150 downloads per month. > > I'd prefer not to cut it that close. > > Please only download it once. > > Go to http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ > > user apr > password 5003v > > Enjoy, on me! > > If I see usage getting too high, I will change the password. > > I would appreciate an email from each of you so I know who got it. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #215 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:08 am Subject: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ladewd Offline Send Email Look at the bright side, I personally changed all the power transformers in those machines. They're guaranteed not to catch fire! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > By the way, the CBS machines were the NBC/Westwood one machines (oh joy). > > Anyway, I'll be picking them up in about two months, probably, but I got > the headblocks to JRF. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 05:55 AM 7/16/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >Yep it was NBC, but who's naming names ;-) > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > >wrote: > > > This lines up with what I remember about the lifters as well. It > >seems > > > to me that some contact during wind with the erase head only was > >allowed > > > because it was ceramic. Can't say I ever agreed with that > >personally. > > > > > > It was red leader, because the infrared EOT sensor could 'see' > >through > > > the red tape better. That made the adjustment tighter than it > >might be > > > with white leader or tape. It WAS because of a particular customer > > > having that problem. Might have been NBC... ? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:51 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > > > > Hi Kris, > > > > > > As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I > > > remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter > > > assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire > > > plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get > >it > > > right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the > > > headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the > > > obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. > > > Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of > > > the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more > > > detailed instructions, let me know. > > > > > > As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the > > > side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the > >MVC > > > center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't > > > remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC > > > center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up > > > and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT > > > pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and > > > adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader > > > tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will > > > remember this one). That was only because one of our larger > > > customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply > >just > > > use tape to make the adjustments. > > > > > > The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a > >video > > > reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the > > > operation when using a video editor, are the only differences > > > between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer > > > machines. > > > > > > You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: > > > http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm > > > > > > I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. > > > > > > I hope you're enjoying your new machine. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > > wrote: > > > > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is > > > normally a > > > > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration > >I > > > think. > > > > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. > > > The top > > > > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > > > > > > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > > > > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very > > > musical > > > > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way > > > around. > > > > :>) > > > > > > > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it > > > being > > > > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to > > > the > > > > heads without touching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > > > > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and > > > making > > > > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll > >definitely > > > be > > > > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > > > > > > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in > >almost- > > > > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get > > > there > > > > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed > >now > > > I > > > > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, > >welcome > > > > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when > >playing > > > at > > > > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > > > > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu > >meters > > > > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a > > > led > > > > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic > >amps > > > > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > > > > > > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by > > > someone > > > > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears > > > quickly > > > > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end > >of > > > > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the > > > tape > > > > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But > >I > > > > can live with that. > > > > > > > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > > > > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it > > > makes > > > > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to > > > give > > > > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD > > > and > > > > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done > > > Jazz > > > > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give > > > some > > > > warmth and never had any complaints! > > > > > > > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase > >when > > > > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > > > > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, > >and > > > > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want > >`accuracy' > > > > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > > > > > > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and > >a > > > > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of > > > the > > > > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed > > > model > > > > though, as I guess most of them were. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts > > > has > > > > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your > >reminiscences > > > > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 > >for > > > > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 > > > for > > > > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to > >see > > > > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the > >5000 > > > > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 > > > and > > > > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > > > > > > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > click here > > > > > > > > > 56/ > > > > > > > > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/ * > > > htt > > > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > > > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > > > html> > > > > > > > > > > M=288055.5065207.6192285.2127756/D=group > > > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > >of > > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > >56/> > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089989468/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/ * > >htt > > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > >56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > > html> > > > > > > >M=288055.5197530.6311986.2127756/D=group> > >s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=493268880> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #216 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:35 am Subject: RE: APR-5003V manual available ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Good show Richard ! From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-5003V manual available OK, Here's the scoop. I have placed the APR-5003V on my Web server for all of you to download. I have a problem. I have 40GB of bandwidth a month. I normally use less than 5GB. That leaves 35GB for the manual this month. That means I can accommodate about 150 downloads per month. I'd prefer not to cut it that close. Please only download it once. Go to http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ user apr password 5003v Enjoy, on me! If I see usage getting too high, I will change the password. I would appreciate an email from each of you so I know who got it. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #217 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:43 am Subject: RE: Re: Accuracy or musicality? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Seems to me I spent a week working on those machines on site as well..... From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:08 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? Look at the bright side, I personally changed all the power transformers in those machines. They're guaranteed not to catch fire! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > By the way, the CBS machines were the NBC/Westwood one machines (oh joy). > > Anyway, I'll be picking them up in about two months, probably, but I got > the headblocks to JRF. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 05:55 AM 7/16/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >Yep it was NBC, but who's naming names ;-) > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > >wrote: > > > This lines up with what I remember about the lifters as well. It > >seems > > > to me that some contact during wind with the erase head only was > >allowed > > > because it was ceramic. Can't say I ever agreed with that > >personally. > > > > > > It was red leader, because the infrared EOT sensor could 'see' > >through > > > the red tape better. That made the adjustment tighter than it > >might be > > > with white leader or tape. It WAS because of a particular customer > > > having that problem. Might have been NBC... ? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:51 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > > > > Hi Kris, > > > > > > As far as the lifters go, its probably a mechanical adjustment. I > > > remember there was enough slop in the mounting of the lifter > > > assembly plate that if you loosen the screws and move the entire > > > plate, you can influence the action of the lifters. When you get > >it > > > right, you can then tighten the screws. You need to take the > > > headstack off the machine to do this. This is in addition to the > > > obvious adjustments to the posisition of the lifter solenoids. > > > Many times its not the posistion of the solenoid, but the angle of > > > the solenoid that prevents proper operation. If you need more > > > detailed instructions, let me know. > > > > > > As far as the EOT (tape break)photocell, there are two pots on the > > > side of the plastic function control panel. One pot adjusts the > >MVC > > > center and the other adjust the photocell sensitivity. I can't > > > remember which does what though. If you accidently move the MVC > > > center one, just touch the MVC wheel, make sure the LED lights up > > > and adjust the pot until the tape stops moving. To adjust the EOT > > > pot, we used to put a section of leader tape across the heads and > > > adjust the sensitivity until it worked rpoperly with the leader > > > tape. Actually, we used red leader tape (I'm sure Scott will > > > remember this one). That was only because one of our larger > > > customers used red leader tape. Actually, these days, I simply > >just > > > use tape to make the adjustments. > > > > > > The 5003V had the provision for locking the capstan speed to a > >video > > > reference. That, along with some software changes to enhance the > > > operation when using a video editor, are the only differences > > > between the 2 machines. Also the 5003V's are generally newer > > > machines. > > > > > > You can find some pictures of the APR and MCI series machines here: > > > http://www.recordingconsoles.net/consoles/consoles.htm > > > > > > I couldn't link right to the page, so you'll have to look around. > > > > > > I hope you're enjoying your new machine. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > > wrote: > > > > What tape speed are you using normally? The 30ips low end is > > > normally a > > > > bit weak on these machines, primarily due to head configuration > >I > > > think. > > > > 15ips has a more solid, but somewhat 'lumper' response down low. > > > The top > > > > end at 30 ips is very nice though. > > > > > > > > Also, 456 tape might not be the best choice for a 'sweet, warm > > > > sound......' , and the type of hiss from this tape is not very > > > musical > > > > sounding. Perhaps a different brand tape would help all the way > > > around. > > > > :>) > > > > > > > > You should be able to cure the lifter problem. I don't recall it > > > being > > > > an issue normally, although it was supposed to be quite close to > > > the > > > > heads without touching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: Alison Kristina Hinckley [mailto:kris@m...] > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:28 PM > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Accuracy or musicality? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well! Many thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to > > > > Richard for the details on the tape calibration procedure and > > > making > > > > part 1, section 4 of the manual available online. I'll > >definitely > > > be > > > > wanting a copy of the CDROM. > > > > > > > > `The Beast' as we affectionately call her is now singing in > >almost- > > > > perfect analogue harmony with 456 tape. Took a few hours to get > > > there > > > > though! It was a steep learning curve, but I've got it sussed > >now > > > I > > > > think. Sound quality is of course, excellent, but oh dear, > >welcome > > > > back tape hiss on quiet parts of classical recordings when > >playing > > > at > > > > loud levels . We've been spoilt by the inky blackness of digital > > > > recordings for the past few years. Also, getting used to Vu > >meters > > > > after LED peak meters isn't going to be easy. Still, I've got a > > > led > > > > peak meter I can put inline, and there's also leds on my mic > >amps > > > > (Joe Meek VC6Q) so it's not a problem. > > > > > > > > The beast is certainly well built. Yes, as previously said by > > > someone > > > > else, the fan noise can be obtrusive at times, but your ears > > > quickly > > > > compensate. Excellent logic control transport although the end > >of > > > > tape sensor doesn't always do its job and, when activated, the > > > tape > > > > lifters aren't lifting the tape totally away from the heads. But > >I > > > > can live with that. > > > > > > > > Now for the contentious bit! In the end I've decided to give the > > > > beast a very slightly `warm' sound. Subjective I know, but it > > > makes > > > > the music more involving. I can always set up another preset to > > > give > > > > an accurate sound. I've got quite a few albums on both LP and CD > > > and > > > > have always preferred the LP version. And whenever I have done > > > Jazz > > > > or brass band recordings I've always eq'd the end result to give > > > some > > > > warmth and never had any complaints! > > > > > > > > Another thing I've noticed is that the beast alters the phase > >when > > > > compared to the input. Not too much, but just enough to make the > > > > soundstage a little bit wider. Not a bad thing in my opinion, > >and > > > > again, it adds to the musicality. And anyway, if I want > >`accuracy' > > > > then I've got the DAT and the Alesis Masterdisk. > > > > > > > > One question if I may. What's the difference between a 5003 and > >a > > > > 5003V ? It says it's a 5003 on the back, and there's no sign of > > > the > > > > letter `V' so I guess this isn't a 5003V. It is the high speed > > > model > > > > though, as I guess most of them were. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the warm welcome to the group. Reading the back posts > > > has > > > > been a fascinating exercise, especially reading your > >reminiscences > > > > and the birth of digital 2 track. There's two or three K 1183 > >for > > > > sale on eBay uk at the moment (item no 3826230368 or 3827215847 > > > for > > > > example) as well as a 3324A (3734993888). It's interesting to > >see > > > > what these look like. I can see how the K1183 is based on the > >5000 > > > > series. Very similar looks. If anyone can find a pic of a APR24 > > > and > > > > an MCI etc, I'd be grateful. > > > > > > > > Kris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > click here > > > > > > > > > 56/ > > > > > > > > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089664173/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/ * > > > htt > > > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > > > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > > > html> > > > > > > > > > > M=288055.5065207.6192285.2127756/D=group > > > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=489805832> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > >of > > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > >56/> > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1089989468/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/ * > >htt > > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > >56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > > html> > > > > > > >M=288055.5197530.6311986.2127756/D=group> > >s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=493268880> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #218 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:02 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email This gear certainly look pretty rude and crude, doesn't it? Got to love the wear pattern on those heads as well... :>) From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! WOW, nice deal and with SR no less. Lets see where its at in a few days though. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Folks: > > Not bad at all . . . !! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863& > rd=1 > > And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341& > rd=1 > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New Media Laboratory > New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #219 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:03 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...meant the Aces gear, of course.....oops ! From: Scott Phillips Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'sony_apr@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! This gear certainly look pretty rude and crude, doesn't it? Got to love the wear pattern on those heads as well... :>) From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! WOW, nice deal and with SR no less. Lets see where its at in a few days though. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Folks: > > Not bad at all . . . !! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863& > rd=1 > > And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341& > rd=1 > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New Media Laboratory > New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #220 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:56 am Subject: Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! ladewd Offline Send Email Yeah, the Aces looks like crap. I remember them from back in the late '70's and early '80's. Never saw one in person though. I would guess they weren't too popular (and for good reason). Who would want to look at each channel card to see the meters? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > ...meant the Aces gear, of course.....oops ! > > ________________________________ > > From: Scott Phillips > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:03 PM > To: 'sony_apr@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! > > > This gear certainly look pretty rude and crude, doesn't it? Got to love > the wear pattern on those heads as well... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:01 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 Looks Sweet!! > > > WOW, nice deal and with SR no less. Lets see where its at in a few > days though. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > > Folks: > > > > Not bad at all . . . !! > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=15199&item=3735554863& > > rd=1 > > > > And, does anyone know what an English "Aces" might be . . . ?? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=23785&item=3736423341& > > rd=1 > > > > Best, > > > > Mark Stahlman > > New Media Laboratory > > New York City > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1090044124/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=256083214> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #221 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:38 pm Subject: Thanks alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Many thanks for your replies about my 5003. Especially Richard for making the manual available! Excellent scanning, it must have taken you ages. Certainly a labour of love. I've been devouring it hungrily! Like the others, I also wish you success in going fulltime into tape restoration Richard. I can't wait to see the photos of your new workroom! I've got the beast sounding sweet, but will try different tape formulations, thanks for the advice. I'll continue to pop in from time to time. Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #222 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:44 pm Subject: Re: Thanks richardlhess Offline Send Email You're welcome, I had access to a Xerox DC490 which could sheet-feed and double-side-scan even the B-size sheets. It outputs a PDF. I had about a dozen or so source PDFs which I combined into the three final ones. Thanks for the good wishes about the restoration business. It's fun. I enjoy it. The APRs are doing well for me. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > Many thanks for your replies about my 5003. Especially Richard for > making the manual available! Excellent scanning, it must have taken > you ages. Certainly a labour of love. I've been devouring it > hungrily! > > Like the others, I also wish you success in going fulltime into tape > restoration Richard. I can't wait to see the photos of your new > workroom! > > I've got the beast sounding sweet, but will try different tape > formulations, thanks for the advice. > > I'll continue to pop in from time to time. > > Alison. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #223 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:53 pm Subject: RE: Thanks ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I'd like to chime in with similar feelings. Thanks for your hard work and genuine interest both in the machines and the people that use them. I know what a mess moving can be, but make sure to let us all know when you are settled again... and best of luck ! Scott From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 7:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Cc: Alison Kristina Hinckley Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Thanks You're welcome, I had access to a Xerox DC490 which could sheet-feed and double-side-scan even the B-size sheets. It outputs a PDF. I had about a dozen or so source PDFs which I combined into the three final ones. Thanks for the good wishes about the restoration business. It's fun. I enjoy it. The APRs are doing well for me. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Alison Kristina Hinckley : > Many thanks for your replies about my 5003. Especially Richard for > making the manual available! Excellent scanning, it must have taken > you ages. Certainly a labour of love. I've been devouring it > hungrily! > > Like the others, I also wish you success in going fulltime into tape > restoration Richard. I can't wait to see the photos of your new > workroom! > > I've got the beast sounding sweet, but will try different tape > formulations, thanks for the advice. > > I'll continue to pop in from time to time. > > Alison. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #224 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:36 pm Subject: RE: Thanks / Listmember with broken 5003 richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Scott, It's fun, to say the least, doing what I've been doing. The move, well, it's fun in its own way, but hectic. Can anyone help the person with the broken 5003? I wonder if anyone can help? I've never experienced what he describes (and hope I don't). Cheers, Richard At 08:53 PM 7/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: Richard, I'd like to chime in with similar feelings. Thanks for your hard work and genuine interest both in the machines and the people that use them. I know what a mess moving can be, but make sure to let us all know when you are settled again... and best of luck ! Scott Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #225 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:10 pm Subject: RE: Thanks / Listmember with broken 5003 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Somehow I haven't seen that email through the list. Can someone pass it to me? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Thanks / Listmember with broken 5003 Thanks, Scott, It's fun, to say the least, doing what I've been doing. The move, well, it's fun in its own way, but hectic. Can anyone help the person with the broken 5003? I wonder if anyone can help? I've never experienced what he describes (and hope I don't). Cheers, Richard At 08:53 PM 7/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: Richard, I'd like to chime in with similar feelings. Thanks for your hard work and genuine interest both in the machines and the people that use them. I know what a mess moving can be, but make sure to let us all know when you are settled again... and best of luck ! Scott Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #226 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:23 pm Subject: Broken APR needs help richardlhess Offline Send Email Here's the message, it was sent to me rather than the list. Cheers, Richard >Envelope-to: arclists@... >X-eGroups-Return: >notify-return-arclists=richardhess.com@... >X-Sender: ajpennella@... >X-Apparently-To: sony_apr-owner@yahoogroups.com >From: "Andrew Pennella" >To: >Subject: Resent >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:44:49 -0400 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >Importance: Normal >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 >X-eGroups-Moderators: sony_apr >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on aaryn.lunarpages.com >X-Spam-Level: >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SORBS > autolearn=no version=2.63 >X-Text-Classification: normal >X-POPFile-Link: >http://127.0.0.1:8088/jump_to_message?view=popfile104097=58.msg > >I also need help with my 5003. I had a broken splice and a reel runaway, and >now both reel spindles are inoperative. Capstan engages and pulls tape, but >no tension or pull on either reel. > >I have many studio machines, and am a master tape and dub collector, mostly >2 track. Vintage JBL, Mac, and Marantz gear. > >Here's the 5003. > >Thanks, > >Andy Pennella >Stamford, CT > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andrew Pennella [mailto:ajpennella@...] >Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:45 PM >To: sony_apr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >Subject: > > >Subscribe please. > >I have an APR5003 timecode unit. > >Thanks, > >Andy Pennella >Stamford, CT > >Member of Ampex List for 6 years Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #227 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:25 am Subject: RE: Broken APR needs help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Ouch !! I see what you mean.... From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Broken APR needs help Here's the message, it was sent to me rather than the list. Cheers, Richard >Envelope-to: arclists@... >X-eGroups-Return: >notify-return-arclists=richardhess.com@... >X-Sender: ajpennella@... >X-Apparently-To: sony_apr-owner@yahoogroups.com >From: "Andrew Pennella" >To: >Subject: Resent >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:44:49 -0400 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >Importance: Normal >X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 >X-eGroups-Moderators: sony_apr >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on aaryn.lunarpages.com >X-Spam-Level: >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SORBS > autolearn=no version=2.63 >X-Text-Classification: normal >X-POPFile-Link: >http://127.0.0.1:8088/jump_to_message?view=popfile104097=58.msg > >I also need help with my 5003. I had a broken splice and a reel runaway, and >now both reel spindles are inoperative. Capstan engages and pulls tape, but >no tension or pull on either reel. > >I have many studio machines, and am a master tape and dub collector, mostly >2 track. Vintage JBL, Mac, and Marantz gear. > >Here's the 5003. > >Thanks, > >Andy Pennella >Stamford, CT > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andrew Pennella [mailto:ajpennella@...] >Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:45 PM >To: sony_apr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >Subject: > > >Subscribe please. > >I have an APR5003 timecode unit. > >Thanks, > >Andy Pennella >Stamford, CT > >Member of Ampex List for 6 years Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #228 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:56 pm Subject: RE: Broken APR needs help bae_steve Offline Send Email Check the Motor Driver Board for blown fuses, or fried resistors/transistors. SS In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:25:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Scott Phillips" writes: >Ouch !! I see what you mean.... > >________________________________ > >From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] >Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:24 PM >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [sony_apr] Broken APR needs help > > >Here's the message, it was sent to me rather than the list. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >>Envelope-to: arclists@... >>X-eGroups-Return: >>notify-return-arclists=richardhess.com@... >>X-Sender: ajpennella@... >>X-Apparently-To: sony_apr-owner@yahoogroups.com >>From: "Andrew Pennella" >>To: >>Subject: Resent >>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:44:49 -0400 >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >>Importance: Normal >>X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 >>X-eGroups-Moderators: sony_apr >>X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on >aaryn.lunarpages.com >>X-Spam-Level: >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SORBS >> autolearn=no version=2.63 >>X-Text-Classification: normal >>X-POPFile-Link: >>http://127.0.0.1:8088/jump_to_message?view=popfile104097=58.msg >> >>I also need help with my 5003. I had a broken splice and a reel >runaway, and >>now both reel spindles are inoperative. Capstan engages and pulls tape, >but >>no tension or pull on either reel. >> >>I have many studio machines, and am a master tape and dub collector, >mostly >>2 track. Vintage JBL, Mac, and Marantz gear. >> >>Here's the 5003. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Andy Pennella >>Stamford, CT >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Andrew Pennella [mailto:ajpennella@...] >>Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:45 PM >>To: sony_apr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Subject: >> >> >>Subscribe please. >> >>I have an APR5003 timecode unit. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Andy Pennella >>Stamford, CT >> >>Member of Ampex List for 6 years > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >click here >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1090466891/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/*htt >p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. >html> > >s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=324882102> > >________________________________ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >* To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >Service . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #229 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:29 am Subject: Re: Broken APR needs help ladewd Offline Send Email I'm helping the guy out. So far there are 2 blown fuses and a 7918 incinerated. I'm sure there's more. These RMD's like to take more than one component out when they go. Good thing the APR-24 doesn't suffer from this (except you need to remove the transistors one by one until you find the shorted one (and its always the last one)). I think he'll be up and running in a couple of days, provided he can find the driver transistors. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > Check the Motor Driver Board for blown fuses, or fried resistors/transistors. SS > > > In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:25:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Scott Phillips" writes: > > >Ouch !! I see what you mean.... > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > >Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:24 PM > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [sony_apr] Broken APR needs help > > > > > >Here's the message, it was sent to me rather than the list. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > >>Envelope-to: arclists@r... > >>X-eGroups-Return: > >>notify-return-arclists=richardhess.com@r... > >>X-Sender: ajpennella@w... > >>X-Apparently-To: sony_apr-owner@yahoogroups.com > >>From: "Andrew Pennella" > >>To: > >>Subject: Resent > >>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:44:49 -0400 > >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > >>Importance: Normal > >>X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.131.117 > >>X-eGroups-Moderators: sony_apr > >>X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on > >aaryn.lunarpages.com > >>X-Spam-Level: > >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SORBS > >> autolearn=no version=2.63 > >>X-Text-Classification: normal > >>X-POPFile-Link: > >>http://127.0.0.1:8088/jump_to_message?view=popfile104097=58.msg > >> > >>I also need help with my 5003. I had a broken splice and a reel > >runaway, and > >>now both reel spindles are inoperative. Capstan engages and pulls tape, > >but > >>no tension or pull on either reel. > >> > >>I have many studio machines, and am a master tape and dub collector, > >mostly > >>2 track. Vintage JBL, Mac, and Marantz gear. > >> > >>Here's the 5003. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Andy Pennella > >>Stamford, CT > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Andrew Pennella [mailto:ajpennella@a...] > >>Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:45 PM > >>To: sony_apr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>Subject: > >> > >> > >>Subscribe please. > >> > >>I have an APR5003 timecode unit. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Andy Pennella > >>Stamford, CT > >> > >>Member of Ampex List for 6 years > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > >click here > > >D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1090466891/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/ *htt > >p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > >html> > > > > >s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=324882102> > > > >________________________________ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >* To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >Service . > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #230 From: OtherWorld Date: Sun Aug 1, 2004 8:34 pm Subject: APR Hello! otherworldrec Offline Send Email Hi I would like to introduce myself. I’m Scott Wilson. I’m an engineer and producer in Milwaukee Wisconsin USA. I own a bunch of stuff, but the elusive APR-24 is next on my gear target. I’m in the market for analog because it’s the way I’d like to work for my own projects, and a nice addition to my digital room. Often emulated, but never duplicated is my viewpoint. So here I am. If you’ve got a deck to sell....I’m all ears. I really like the idea of the APR being easier to set up. Yeah auto-bias. I’ve looked at older MCI machines, but the reason I was so hip to digital was it’s ease of use. (ok, so I was drunk at the time....LOL) The APR seems like a winner from the price/features category, so that’s where I’m headed. It also seems like the pinnacle of machines from a tech standpoint- modern design, microprocessor control, a nice small remote.....I’m sure you can all hip me to the good stuff. So why are y’all so hip on the APR? Thanks for listening. Hopefully I’ll run into you in the future. Regards Scott -- Scott L Wilson OtherWorld Recording Milwaukee WI USA Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #231 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Aug 1, 2004 9:00 pm Subject: RE: APR Hello! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Very good sound quality is a start, to go along with decent transport. The APR's aren't really auto-anything to align, but at least there aren't trim pots to use to align it with, just buttons. Can't speak for the others here, but nothing replaces a careful manual alignment for an analog machine. It also makes one very aware of any problems that exist, including with the tape stock. All it takes is poor tape stock, a piece of oxide on the heads, nearly anything... and auto-alignment isn't worth spit. Need help with alignments? I think you came to the right place. Most folks here are into the APR-2002/2003 series recorders, they have a lot in common with the APR-24, and there are ex-factory folks here as well who can likely help. Welcome aboard ! For myself, even with the JH series recorders it was routine to do a complete audio alignment, with azimuth and Dolby, in 30 minutes, and worth every minute. Always hated the trim pots though...... :>) The point is, don't let alignment scare you off...once you have a better understanding of the 'what-why', the rest becomes second nature very quickly. From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 7:35 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR Hello! Hi I would like to introduce myself. I’m Scott Wilson. I’m an engineer and producer in Milwaukee Wisconsin USA. I own a bunch of stuff, but the elusive APR-24 is next on my gear target. I’m in the market for analog because it’s the way I’d like to work for my own projects, and a nice addition to my digital room. Often emulated, but never duplicated is my viewpoint. So here I am. If you’ve got a deck to sell....I’m all ears. I really like the idea of the APR being easier to set up. Yeah auto-bias. I’ve looked at older MCI machines, but the reason I was so hip to digital was it’s ease of use. (ok, so I was drunk at the time....LOL) The APR seems like a winner from the price/features category, so that’s where I’m headed. It also seems like the pinnacle of machines from a tech standpoint- modern design, microprocessor control, a nice small remote.....I’m sure you can all hip me to the good stuff. So why are y’all so hip on the APR? Thanks for listening. Hopefully I’ll run into you in the future. Regards Scott -- Scott L Wilson OtherWorld Recording Milwaukee WI USA Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #232 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Aug 2, 2004 8:52 pm Subject: Re: APR Hello! ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Hi > > I would like to introduce myself. I¹m Scott Wilson. Hi Scott, Glad to meet you. Good luck with your APR search and if you have any questions, feel free to ask them here. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #233 From: "bae_steve" Date: Tue Aug 3, 2004 1:16 am Subject: Re: APR Hello! bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, don't rush into anything, especially Sony APR 24's. You should get expert advice before purchasing. You could be buying a 22 trk. and not know it. Make sure you have a qualified tech w/ SMT experience for the later ones. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #234 From: OtherWorld Date: Tue Aug 3, 2004 10:34 am Subject: Re: Re: APR Hello! otherworldrec Offline Send Email SS Thanks for the info. I don’t have a machine in mind yet, but I will take your advice. What is it about the later ones that’s problematic? Thanks Scott On 8/3/04 12:16 AM, "bae_steve" wrote: Hey, don't rush into anything, especially Sony APR 24's. You should get expert advice before purchasing. You could be buying a 22 trk. and not know it. Make sure you have a qualified tech w/ SMT experience for the later ones. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #235 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Aug 3, 2004 1:34 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR Hello! bae_steve Offline Send Email It's just that they're made using SMT's instead of DIP IC's. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #236 From: OtherWorld Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 5:21 pm Subject: APR series/models/serial numbers otherworldrec Offline Send Email Hello Everyone I’m in search of an APR24 and found an 89C model. Obviously, built in 1989....but what are the different letter denominations? Thanks thanks! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #237 From: OtherWorld Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 5:24 pm Subject: Dolby A or SR? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #238 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 5:33 pm Subject: Re: APR series/models/serial numbers bae_steve Offline Send Email ABCD = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th quarter of the year. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #239 From: OtherWorld Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 5:42 pm Subject: Re: APR series/models/serial numbers otherworldrec Offline Send Email There was some talk here about which APRs to avoid. Is someone in the know?? Thanks Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 4:33 PM, "mcijh@..." wrote: ABCD = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th quarter of the year. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #240 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 5:50 pm Subject: Re: APR series/models/serial numbers richardlhess Offline Send Email I THINK the reference was to APR-24s, not APR-5000s There are, however APR-5001 APR-5002 APR-5003 APR-5003V models The APR-5001-5003 (non-V) under 20,000 are less desirable in my opinion -- at least those that have the non-convertible rotating drives. My favorite APR-5003V software is P4.02.01.6 It fixes the slow speed "problem" in that it defaults to high speed when you change speeds on a slow speed head. Resetting earlier versions solves it, but it's silly to have to power down each time you change speed! Cheers, Richard At 04:42 PM 8/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: There was some talk here about which APRs to avoid. Is someone in the know?? Thanks Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 4:33 PM, "mcijh@..." wrote: ABCD = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th quarter of the year. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #241 From: "Rick@..." Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 6:27 pm Subject: Re: Dolby A or SR? allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Scott: Well, since you asked ("be carefull what you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far less detrimental to sound quality than any Encode/Decode or single-ended noise-reduction process; and if you're transferring analog to digital, the noise (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. I haven't heard great sound in a theater since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm print of The Wind And The Lion at the National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend a screening of a movie and said to your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to all that noise - if only someone would invent noise-reduction to fix it"! Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] that I need a decoder for; anyone with a Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #242 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:20 pm Subject: Re: APR series/models/serial numbers bae_steve Offline Send Email Richard: What's a "non-convertible rotating drive"? What's a "slow speed head" on anything later than an Ampex MM1100 or 1200? What mod was done to default to Hi spd.? Sony didn't/doesn't do half ass, .... they fuck up everything at the same time: APR5KX, and APR24 PCB's are the same Cards. Some components were added for the extra channels. The manufacturing process was the same. SS In a message dated 8/4/2004 5:50:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard L. Hess" writes: >I THINK the reference was to APR-24s, not APR-5000s > >There are, however > >APR-5001 >APR-5002 >APR-5003 >APR-5003V >models > >The APR-5001-5003 (non-V) under 20,000 are less desirable in my opinion -- >at least those that have the non-convertible rotating drives. > >My favorite APR-5003V software is P4.02.01.6 It fixes the slow speed >"problem" in that it defaults to high speed when you change speeds on a >slow speed head. Resetting earlier versions solves it, but it's silly to >have to power down each time you change speed! > >Cheers, > >Richard > > >At 04:42 PM 8/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>There was some talk here about which APRs to avoid. Is someone in the know?? >> >>Thanks >> >>Scott Wilson >>OtherWorld >> >> >> >>On 8/4/04 4:33 PM, "mcijh@..." wrote: >> >>ABCD = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th quarter of the year. SS > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #243 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:51 pm Subject: Re: APR series/models/serial numbers richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:20 PM 8/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Richard: What's a "non-convertible rotating drive"? The three rotating guides on early APR5Ks were one-piece and cannot be converted to 1/2-inch. >What's a "slow speed head" on anything later than an Ampex MM1100 or >1200? What mod was done to default to Hi spd.? Normal heads are high speed. You can switch one of the DIP switches to make the machine 3.75/7.5/15 instead of 7.5/15/30 If you do on earlier software you can change speed, but if you were in 3.75 and you increase the speed one, it goes to 15. Reboot the machine and now it's 7.5. The version of the software I mentioned fixed this. >Sony didn't/doesn't do half ass, .... they fuck up everything at the same >time: APR5KX, and APR24 PCB's are the same Cards. Some components were >added for the extra channels. The manufacturing process was the same. I didn't realize you were talking about surface mount audio cards. I haven't yet seen an SMD audio card, have I? >SS > >In a message dated 8/4/2004 5:50:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard L. >Hess" writes: > > >I THINK the reference was to APR-24s, not APR-5000s > > > >There are, however > > > >APR-5001 > >APR-5002 > >APR-5003 > >APR-5003V > >models > > > >The APR-5001-5003 (non-V) under 20,000 are less desirable in my opinion -- > >at least those that have the non-convertible rotating drives. > > > >My favorite APR-5003V software is P4.02.01.6 It fixes the slow speed > >"problem" in that it defaults to high speed when you change speeds on a > >slow speed head. Resetting earlier versions solves it, but it's silly to > >have to power down each time you change speed! > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > > > >At 04:42 PM 8/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >>There was some talk here about which APRs to avoid. Is someone in the > know?? > >> > >>Thanks > >> > >>Scott Wilson > >>OtherWorld > >> > >> > >> > >>On 8/4/04 4:33 PM, "mcijh@..." wrote: > >> > >>ABCD = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th quarter of the year. SS > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #244 From: OtherWorld Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 9:52 am Subject: Re: Dolby A or SR? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I’ll make sure you get the info. Best Regards Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: Hi Scott: Well, since you asked ("be carefull what you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far less detrimental to sound quality than any Encode/Decode or single-ended noise-reduction process; and if you're transferring analog to digital, the noise (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. I haven't heard great sound in a theater since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm print of The Wind And The Lion at the National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend a screening of a movie and said to your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to all that noise - if only someone would invent noise-reduction to fix it"! Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] that I need a decoder for; anyone with a Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #245 From: "pumprdave" Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 11:49 am Subject: How About Dolby HX Pro pumprdave Offline Send Email Do you include Dolby HX Pro in your opinion on noise reduction being more detrimental TO sound quality than tape hiss? I tend to agree with your observations. My Nakamichi Dragon sounds much better without the dolby turned on. However I have just picked up a rebuilt Otari MTR-15 which is equipped with Dolby HX Pro, which I have no experience with. I do know it is a real time bias adjustment, but I have no knowledge if it is detrimental to sound quality. I would really appreciate your opinion. Thanks, David Levinson Newport Beach, CA. "ANALOG TAPE IS THE MOTHER OF ALL AUDIO FORMATS" --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your > insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, > I¹ll make sure you get the info. > > Best Regards > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > > On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Scott: > > > > Well, since you asked ("be carefull what > > you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far > > less detrimental to sound quality than > > any Encode/Decode or single-ended > > noise-reduction process; and if you're > > transferring analog to digital, the noise > > (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. > > > > I haven't heard great sound in a theater > > since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm > > print of The Wind And The Lion at the > > National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. > > > > Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend > > a screening of a movie and said to > > your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to > > all that noise - if only someone would > > invent noise-reduction to fix it"! > > > > Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded > > tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] > > that I need a decoder for; anyone with a > > Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? > > > > Best regards :-) > > Rick@A... > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > OtherWorld wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> I'm checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise > >> reduction? I'm looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, > >> whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? > >> > >> Thanks much! > >> > >> Scott Wilson > >> OtherWorld > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail > > > mail/static/efficiency.html> - 100MB free storage! > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > ps/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1091744842/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/*http:/ /store.ya > > hoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2.html> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > . > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #246 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 12:35 pm Subject: Re: How About Dolby HX Pro allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Dave: Compact Cassette decks are another thing entirely; not even a Dragon (I have 2) can overcome the 1.875-ips speed, and to a lesser extent, the extremely-narrow track-width, where Dolby noise-reduction, especially C+Hx, be a necessary evil when duping a master tape of acoustic guitar, gongs, etc, onto cassette. Hx varies the bias according to program-content so that high frequences do not self-errase, a very clever invention by Bang-Olufsen. Give me a call sometime and let me know how the MTR-15 sounds. Is the Hx defeatable ? Do you have an APR-5002/3 or Stellavox TD-9 for comparison ? Note: When doing comparisons, keep in mind that solid-state electronics need 72-hrs to reach full sonic potential. FYI: http://www.allegrosound.com/index4.html Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 http://www.AllegroSound.com pumprdave wrote: Do you include Dolby HX Pro in your opinion on noise reduction being more detrimental TO sound quality than tape hiss? I tend to agree with your observations. My Nakamichi Dragon sounds much better without the dolby turned on. However I have just picked up a rebuilt Otari MTR-15 which is equipped with Dolby HX Pro, which I have no experience with. I do know it is a real time bias adjustment, but I have no knowledge if it is detrimental to sound quality. I would really appreciate your opinion. Thanks, David Levinson Newport Beach, CA. "ANALOG TAPE IS THE MOTHER OF ALL AUDIO FORMATS" --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. > If I hear of someone selling an A301, > I¹ll make sure you get the info. > Best Regards > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Scott: > > > > Well, since you asked ("be carefull what > > you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far > > less detrimental to sound quality than > > any Encode/Decode or single-ended > > noise-reduction process; and if you're > > transferring analog to digital, the noise > > (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. > > > > I haven't heard great sound in a theater > > since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm > > print of The Wind And The Lion at the > > National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. > > > > Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend > > a screening of a movie and said to > > your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to > > all that noise - if only someone would > > invent noise-reduction to fix it"! > > > > Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded > > tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] > > that I need a decoder for; anyone with a > > Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? > > > > Best regards :-) > > Rick@A... > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > OtherWorld wrote: > >> Hi > >> I'm checking to see if anyone on the list > >> is using either A or SR noise reduction? > >> I'm looking for general comments about > >> either type - good, bad, whatever. > >> What are your thoughts about using nr? > >> > >> Thanks much! > >> > >> Scott Wilson > >> OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #247 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 12:44 pm Subject: RE: Dolby A or SR? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The level settings and proper alignment make all the difference with Dolby A. Not saying I recommend it, just that having proper Dolby tone (and alignment) on the tones reel to set up with make it less painful to listen to. Same with Dolby SR, in a different way. I'd have to vote for SR between the two, but if given the choice I'd rather not use either unless forced to use 15ips by a client for reasons of low, low frequency response. I'd rather use the SR then, MAYBE. Scott Phillips From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:52 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I’ll make sure you get the info. Best Regards Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: Hi Scott: Well, since you asked ("be carefull what you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far less detrimental to sound quality than any Encode/Decode or single-ended noise-reduction process; and if you're transferring analog to digital, the noise (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. I haven't heard great sound in a theater since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm print of The Wind And The Lion at the National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend a screening of a movie and said to your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to all that noise - if only someone would invent noise-reduction to fix it"! Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] that I need a decoder for; anyone with a Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #248 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 12:48 pm Subject: RE: How About Dolby HX Pro ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I'd be interested in comments on the sound of the MTR-15. I've disliked the ones I've used and listened to, but then, that might just be me.... :>) I also have a Dragon...a wonderful machine, if you must use cassettes..... From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:36 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] How About Dolby HX Pro Hi Dave: Compact Cassette decks are another thing entirely; not even a Dragon (I have 2) can overcome the 1.875-ips speed, and to a lesser extent, the extremely-narrow track-width, where Dolby noise-reduction, especially C+Hx, be a necessary evil when duping a master tape of acoustic guitar, gongs, etc, onto cassette. Hx varies the bias according to program-content so that high frequences do not self-errase, a very clever invention by Bang-Olufsen. Give me a call sometime and let me know how the MTR-15 sounds. Is the Hx defeatable ? Do you have an APR-5002/3 or Stellavox TD-9 for comparison ? Note: When doing comparisons, keep in mind that solid-state electronics need 72-hrs to reach full sonic potential. FYI: http://www.allegrosound.com/index4.html Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 http://www.AllegroSound.com pumprdave wrote: Do you include Dolby HX Pro in your opinion on noise reduction being more detrimental TO sound quality than tape hiss? I tend to agree with your observations. My Nakamichi Dragon sounds much better without the dolby turned on. However I have just picked up a rebuilt Otari MTR-15 which is equipped with Dolby HX Pro, which I have no experience with. I do know it is a real time bias adjustment, but I have no knowledge if it is detrimental to sound quality. I would really appreciate your opinion. Thanks, David Levinson Newport Beach, CA. "ANALOG TAPE IS THE MOTHER OF ALL AUDIO FORMATS" --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. > If I hear of someone selling an A301, > I¹ll make sure you get the info. > Best Regards > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Scott: > > > > Well, since you asked ("be carefull what > > you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far > > less detrimental to sound quality than > > any Encode/Decode or single-ended > > noise-reduction process; and if you're > > transferring analog to digital, the noise > > (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. > > > > I haven't heard great sound in a theater > > since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm > > print of The Wind And The Lion at the > > National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. > > > > Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend > > a screening of a movie and said to > > your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to > > all that noise - if only someone would > > invent noise-reduction to fix it"! > > > > Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded > > tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] > > that I need a decoder for; anyone with a > > Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? > > > > Best regards :-) > > Rick@A... > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > OtherWorld wrote: > >> Hi > >> I'm checking to see if anyone on the list > >> is using either A or SR noise reduction? > >> I'm looking for general comments about > >> either type - good, bad, whatever. > >> What are your thoughts about using nr? > >> > >> Thanks much! > >> > >> Scott Wilson > >> OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #249 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 3:25 pm Subject: RE: Dolby A or SR? allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Scott: Proper calibration [I hope] goes w/o saying. 30-ips is great for in-studio recording; for location recording of acoustic music, where the preservation of bottom-octave info [i.e., the hall-defining difference-signal] is paramount. I know of no play-head that can read 20Hz at 30-ips. All things considered, I find 15-ips to be the best compromise. Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 Scott Phillips wrote: The level settings and proper alignment make all the difference with Dolby A. Not saying I recommend it, just that having proper Dolby tone (and alignment) on the tones reel to set up with make it less painful to listen to. Same with Dolby SR, in a different way. I'd have to vote for SR between the two, but if given the choice I'd rather not use either unless forced to use 15ips by a client for reasons of low, low frequency response. I'd rather use the SR then, MAYBE. Scott Phillips From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:52 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I’ll make sure you get the info. Best Regards Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: Hi Scott: Well, since you asked ("be carefull what you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far less detrimental to sound quality than any Encode/Decode or single-ended noise-reduction process; and if you're transferring analog to digital, the noise (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. I haven't heard great sound in a theater since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm print of The Wind And The Lion at the National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend a screening of a movie and said to your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to all that noise - if only someone would invent noise-reduction to fix it"! Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] that I need a decoder for; anyone with a Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #250 From: OtherWorld Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 3:43 pm Subject: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Hi Everyone Thanks again for all the great information! Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface mount chips and which don’t?? This would be a decisive factor over which machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could handle this? Thanks again!! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Milwaukee WI USA Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #251 From: toro Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 3:53 pm Subject: APR-newbie toro3stream Offline Send Email Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR-5003 (is it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some operating tips. I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to operation. On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea to go from MIDI synch to XLR? Thanks, Matt Montoro www.thirdstreammusic.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #252 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 5:09 pm Subject: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? allegrosound Offline Send Email All APR 's have some SMCs, do they not R.H. ? Best regards, Rick@... AllegroSound Original Microphone Tubes© tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi Everyone Thanks again for all the great information! Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface mount chips and which don’t?? This would be a decisive factor over which machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could handle this? Thanks again!! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Milwaukee WI USA Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #253 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 5:18 pm Subject: RE: Dolby A or SR? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I'd have to agree with you there. Physics... what a concept ... :>) The only thing I don't care for at 15 ips low end is how lumpy it CAN be. It is extended, as is the top end at 30 ips. Case by case choice I guess, based on the program material. No question, I'm not fond of noise reduction of any kind, at any speed. Clients can have other ideas, and they pay the studio bill. Not that I don't try to talk them out of it. The right combination of recorder, bias, and tape formulation (and correct recording techniques) go a long way towards a 'musical' noise floor that doesn't get in the way of the music. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? Hi Scott: Proper calibration [I hope] goes w/o saying. 30-ips is great for in-studio recording; for location recording of acoustic music, where the preservation of bottom-octave info [i.e., the hall-defining difference-signal] is paramount. I know of no play-head that can read 20Hz at 30-ips. All things considered, I find 15-ips to be the best compromise. Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 Scott Phillips wrote: The level settings and proper alignment make all the difference with Dolby A. Not saying I recommend it, just that having proper Dolby tone (and alignment) on the tones reel to set up with make it less painful to listen to. Same with Dolby SR, in a different way. I'd have to vote for SR between the two, but if given the choice I'd rather not use either unless forced to use 15ips by a client for reasons of low, low frequency response. I'd rather use the SR then, MAYBE. Scott Phillips From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:52 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I’ll make sure you get the info. Best Regards Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: Hi Scott: Well, since you asked ("be carefull what you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far less detrimental to sound quality than any Encode/Decode or single-ended noise-reduction process; and if you're transferring analog to digital, the noise (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. I haven't heard great sound in a theater since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm print of The Wind And The Lion at the National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend a screening of a movie and said to your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to all that noise - if only someone would invent noise-reduction to fix it"! Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] that I need a decoder for; anyone with a Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? Best regards :-) Rick@AllegroSound.com Est.1973, Los Angeles CA Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi I’m checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I’m looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? Thanks much! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #254 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 5:39 pm Subject: Re: APR-newbie allegrosound Offline Send Email if it's a 5003V, it will say so on the back plate. "V" version has additional Video capabilities, not a concern for most aps. see my previous posting re tape speeds. Aloha, Rick@... AllegroSound Original Microphone Tubes© tel.818.377.5264 toro wrote: Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR-5003 (is it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some operating tips. I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to operation. On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea to go from MIDI synch to XLR? Thanks, Matt Montoro www.thirdstreammusic.com Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #255 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 10:07 pm Subject: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? richardlhess Offline Send Email I see lots of DIPs on my audio cards. At 02:09 PM 8/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: All APR 's have some SMCs, do they not R.H. ? Best regards, Rick@... AllegroSound Original Microphone Tubes© tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi Everyone Thanks again for all the great information! Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface mount chips and which don’t?? This would be a decisive factor over which machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could handle this? Thanks again!! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Milwaukee WI USA Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #256 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 5, 2004 11:12 pm Subject: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? allegrosound Offline Send Email I see lots o' DIPs on my audio cards and lots o' SMCs on the transport control board under the deck-plate. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I see lots of DIPs on my audio cards. At 02:09 PM 8/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: All APR 's have some SMCs, do they not R.H. ? Best regards, Rick@... AllegroSound Original Microphone Tubes© tel.818.377.5264 OtherWorld wrote: Hi Everyone Thanks again for all the great information! Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface mount chips and which don’t?? This would be a decisive factor over which machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could handle this? Thanks again!! Scott Wilson OtherWorld Milwaukee WI USA Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #257 From: "wolfbob" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 2:46 am Subject: Re: Dolby A or SR? wolfrobert Offline Send Email My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? > Hi Scott: > > Proper calibration [I hope] goes w/o saying. > 30-ips is great for in-studio recording; > for location recording of acoustic music, > where the preservation of bottom-octave info > [i.e., the hall-defining difference-signal] > is paramount. I know of no play-head that can > read 20Hz at 30-ips. All things considered, > I find 15-ips to be the best compromise. > > Best regards :-) > > Rick@... > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > Scott Phillips wrote: > > The level settings and proper alignment make all the difference with Dolby A. Not saying I recommend it, just that having proper Dolby tone (and alignment) on the tones reel to set up with make it less painful to listen to. Same with Dolby SR, in a different way. I'd have to vote for SR between the two, but if given the choice I'd rather not use either unless forced to use 15ips by a client for reasons of low, low frequency response. I'd rather use the SR then, MAYBE. > > Scott Phillips > > > > --------------------------------- > From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:52 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? > > > > Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I'll make sure you get the info. > > Best Regards > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > > On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: > > Hi Scott: > > Well, since you asked ("be carefull what > you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far > less detrimental to sound quality than > any Encode/Decode or single-ended > noise-reduction process; and if you're > transferring analog to digital, the noise > (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. > > I haven't heard great sound in a theater > since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm > print of The Wind And The Lion at the > National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. > > Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend > a screening of a movie and said to > your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to > all that noise - if only someone would > invent noise-reduction to fix it"! > > Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded > tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] > that I need a decoder for; anyone with a > Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? > > Best regards :-) > Rick@... > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > tel.818.377.5264 > > > OtherWorld wrote: > > Hi > > I'm checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I'm looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? > > Thanks much! > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #258 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 3:28 am Subject: (No subject) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a needed evil. In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? > Hi Scott: > > Proper calibration [I hope] goes w/o saying. > 30-ips is great for in-studio recording; > for location recording of acoustic music, > where the preservation of bottom-octave info > [i.e., the hall-defining difference-signal] > is paramount. I know of no play-head that can > read 20Hz at 30-ips. All things considered, > I find 15-ips to be the best compromise. > > Best regards :-) > > Rick@... > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > Scott Phillips wrote: > > The level settings and proper alignment make all the difference with Dolby A. Not saying I recommend it, just that having proper Dolby tone (and alignment) on the tones reel to set up with make it less painful to listen to. Same with Dolby SR, in a different way. I'd have to vote for SR between the two, but if given the choice I'd rather not use either unless forced to use 15ips by a client for reasons of low, low frequency response. I'd rather use the SR then, MAYBE. > > Scott Phillips > > > > --------------------------------- > From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:52 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? > > > > Thanks Rick. I was guessing this would be the outcome. Thanks for your insight- it is greatly appreciated. If I hear of someone selling an A301, I'll make sure you get the info. > > Best Regards > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > > On 8/4/04 5:27 PM, "Rick@..." wrote: > > Hi Scott: > > Well, since you asked ("be carefull what > you ask for"), I find tape noise to be far > less detrimental to sound quality than > any Encode/Decode or single-ended > noise-reduction process; and if you're > transferring analog to digital, the noise > (i.e., dither) will improve the sound. > > I haven't heard great sound in a theater > since a pre-Dolby, 6-mag-trk, 70mm > print of The Wind And The Lion at the > National Theater in West L.A. 30 yrs ago. > > Prior to 1975, when did you ever attend > a screening of a movie and said to > your friend next to you, "Gee, listen to > all that noise - if only someone would > invent noise-reduction to fix it"! > > Unfortunately, I have a few Dolby A-encoded > tapes [recorded not by AllegroSound] > that I need a decoder for; anyone with a > Dolby A301 out there FOR SALE ? > > Best regards :-) > Rick@... > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair > tel.818.377.5264 > > > OtherWorld wrote: > > Hi > > I'm checking to see if anyone on the list is using either A or SR noise reduction? I'm looking for general comments about either type- good, bad, whatever. What are your thoughts about using nr? > > Thanks much! > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #259 From: "wolfbob" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 4:02 am Subject: Re: wolfrobert Offline Send Email Sorry but I still do see it. I think I am wrong but I just don't get it. The rate of change of flux in the gap is independent of the wavelength. It is changing at 20 Hz. The signal is at 20 Hz and if the tape is whizzing by at 1 ips or 60 ips, the rate of change is still 20 Hz, assuming it was recorded at what ever speed is being run. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:28 AM Subject: [sony_apr] You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a needed evil. In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #260 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 11:26 am Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The head gap of a recorder's reproduce head and the tape speed of the transport determine the 'wavelength' of the reproduce head. The wavelength determines the center frequency of a recorder's frequency-response specification. This is the point of maximum efficiency of the head for a given input flux level. Once you pass this center frequency, both below and above, the output voltage level of the recorder's reproduce head will decrease..... From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:03 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sorry but I still do see it. I think I am wrong but I just don't get it. The rate of change of flux in the gap is independent of the wavelength. It is changing at 20 Hz. The signal is at 20 Hz and if the tape is whizzing by at 1 ips or 60 ips, the rate of change is still 20 Hz, assuming it was recorded at what ever speed is being run. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:28 AM Subject: [sony_apr] You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a needed evil. In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #261 From: "wolfbob" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 12:03 pm Subject: Re: wolfrobert Offline Send Email AHHH..a glimmer of comprehension is emerging. the efficiency of the gap is related to the gap size and the wavelength. No, I don't get it as I still have the visual of the sinewave of flux going by the gap at the same speed. If the tape speed is higher, the wavelength on the tape is longer so the sinewave is still going by the gap at the same speed. d(flux)/dt is still the same. I guess I will hit the books to see if I can get a more better visual. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] The head gap of a recorder's reproduce head and the tape speed of the transport determine the 'wavelength' of the reproduce head. The wavelength determines the center frequency of a recorder's frequency-response specification. This is the point of maximum efficiency of the head for a given input flux level. Once you pass this center frequency, both below and above, the output voltage level of the recorder's reproduce head will decrease..... ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:03 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sorry but I still do see it. I think I am wrong but I just don't get it. The rate of change of flux in the gap is independent of the wavelength. It is changing at 20 Hz. The signal is at 20 Hz and if the tape is whizzing by at 1 ips or 60 ips, the rate of change is still 20 Hz, assuming it was recorded at what ever speed is being run. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:28 AM Subject: [sony_apr] You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a needed evil. In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #262 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 12:41 pm Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Perhaps if you think of it a bit like a tuned RF circuit (which it is, being a coil of wire on a form, with inductance and other properties) that will help. From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 11:04 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] AHHH..a glimmer of comprehension is emerging. the efficiency of the gap is related to the gap size and the wavelength. No, I don't get it as I still have the visual of the sinewave of flux going by the gap at the same speed. If the tape speed is higher, the wavelength on the tape is longer so the sinewave is still going by the gap at the same speed. d(flux)/dt is still the same. I guess I will hit the books to see if I can get a more better visual. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] The head gap of a recorder's reproduce head and the tape speed of the transport determine the 'wavelength' of the reproduce head. The wavelength determines the center frequency of a recorder's frequency-response specification. This is the point of maximum efficiency of the head for a given input flux level. Once you pass this center frequency, both below and above, the output voltage level of the recorder's reproduce head will decrease..... ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:03 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sorry but I still do see it. I think I am wrong but I just don't get it. The rate of change of flux in the gap is independent of the wavelength. It is changing at 20 Hz. The signal is at 20 Hz and if the tape is whizzing by at 1 ips or 60 ips, the rate of change is still 20 Hz, assuming it was recorded at what ever speed is being run. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:28 AM Subject: [sony_apr] You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a needed evil. In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. ________________________________ From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz at 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is related to the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very large compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is 20 Hz/sec. What did I miss? I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they were a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. WBob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #263 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 9:19 pm Subject: RE: bae_steve Offline Send Email I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Consider the lowly Record Head @ 8 mh per channel. Consider the more dominent Reproduce Head @ 80 mh per channel. Consider Lo Freq. Record EQ adjust. There isn't one. The Low Frequency Artifact (LFA), or "Bumb" Occurs in Record. Playback Lo. Eq. adjust is used to compensate for Head Gap/Wear/Tape formulation/Operating level (fluxivity/Tape tension/Head alignment, ....etc. etc. etc. This "Bump" occurs at different frequencies dependant upon Head Gap/Materiels, Tape formulation, ......SPEED: Typ. 58-78hz. @ 30ips, and 25-45hz. @ 15ips. For all things to remain equal @ different speeds, the frequency, and level of transmission must remain proportional. Just as 1/2" heads use twice the width to imprint their signal as 1/4" tape, 15ips uses 1/2 distance @ 30ips. Same signal, less tape. However, different head to tape to head reaction at different speed/head gap/tape formulation/ref. fluxivity/ ....etc. etc. etc. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #264 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri Aug 6, 2004 11:52 pm Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email In the end, it's the sound that counts! AllegroSound has recommended 15-ips with NON-back-coated tape for the past 30 yrs; the industry went a different route, and the result is history; 30-yrs later, I see no good reason to change. PS, if anyone has a better recording than Solti's Ring, please send me a 15-ips 1/4" NON-Dolby copy on NON-back-coated tape; I'll return the favor. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 mcijh@... wrote: I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Consider the lowly Record Head @ 8 mh per channel. Consider the more dominent Reproduce Head @ 80 mh per channel. Consider Lo Freq. Record EQ adjust. There isn't one. The Low Frequency Artifact (LFA), or "Bumb" Occurs in Record. Playback Lo. Eq. adjust is used to compensate for Head Gap/Wear/Tape formulation/Operating level (fluxivity/Tape tension/Head alignment, ....etc. etc. etc. This "Bump" occurs at different frequencies dependant upon Head Gap/Materiels, Tape formulation, ......SPEED: Typ. 58-78hz. @ 30ips, and 25-45hz. @ 15ips. For all things to remain equal @ different speeds, the frequency, and level of transmission must remain proportional. Just as 1/2" heads use twice the width to imprint their signal as 1/4" tape, 15ips uses 1/2 distance @ 30ips. Same signal, less tape. However, different head to tape to head reaction at different speed/head gap/tape formulation/ref. fluxivity/ ....etc. etc. etc. SS Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #265 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 12:22 am Subject: RE: richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #266 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 1:43 am Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #267 From: "wolfbob" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 2:26 am Subject: Re: wolfrobert Offline Send Email Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob .---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > [and don't get any better with age] > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > that was excellent. > Best regards, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > Me too... > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > Cheers, Richard > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #268 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 10:51 am Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree there is much more to it than a simplistic view of it being an issue of simply gap size and tape speed. I was trying to keep it general, really just to show him that a head has a pretty non-linear output vs. frequency. However, perhaps in the end everyone is better off when it gets kicked around thoroughly once the can 'o worms is open.... I think that the various EQ standards at the various speeds, were they to be cooked up from scratch considering current technologies, might be a bit different than they are now. The EQ standards were made a long, long time ago. Richard, I also feel the wider head profiles tend to do a better job in the low end. The JH series machines, all using the narrow Woelke heads, did suffer because of it. It may be that the design consideration was scrape flutter..... but after this long, who knows. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 11:23 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #269 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 11:01 am Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email .....the only complaint I've ever really had with MRL is sometimes I've wished they'd used different tape stock. Any other problems I've had with them always came down to storage or transportation damage, or meeting up with an improperly degaussed headstack. Magnetic tape, got to love it. Having said that, I'm sittin' out this one..... From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 1:27 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob .---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > [and don't get any better with age] > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > that was excellent. > Best regards, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > Me too... > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > Cheers, Richard > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #270 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 12:41 pm Subject: Re: allegrosound Offline Send Email I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL are in-correct; choose your poison! If you like bright microphones [most are] and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, I sure as heck am going to use them"] then by all means, stick with the status quo. Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to measure playback response; anyone know how to locate Scott Kent ? Best regards, Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818.377.5264 wolfbob wrote: Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob .---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > [and don't get any better with age] > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > that was excellent. > Best regards, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > Me too... > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #271 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 1:08 pm Subject: Re: masteringman... Offline Send Email Rick@AllegroSound wrote: > If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! Most test tapes are inaccurate in that they put somewhat more on them at the top than the standard prescribes. This is done to prolong the life of the test tape. MRL and AGFA test tapes comes closest to what the standards say in my experience. Ampex and BASF are those that are hottest at the top. BASF is/was about +1/1.5 db up at 10 kHz at 15". > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. I don´t understand what this has to do with getting an accurate replay standard? Even if off as long as you put them test tones somewhere on your tape I can always adjust my machine to your standard no big deal at all. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response;¨ You´re speaking about using a flux loop. Very good for checking the electrical replay response but you´re unable to compensate for replay head gap losses. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #272 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 1:17 pm Subject: RE: richardlhess Offline Send Email Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #273 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 1:52 pm Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard's experience fits with mine as well. I note the R/P performance and generally see a small midrange 'lift' if the HF portion of the test tape used is too low from whatever reason. I don't see that with a healthy MRL, but then I replace my personal test tapes at least once a year, or more often depending on how often they are used.... From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 12:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #274 From: "wolfbob" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 1:59 pm Subject: Re: wolfrobert Offline Send Email This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum difdference on any deck. Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response; anyone > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > Best regards, > Rick@... > "audio in the service of music" > tel.818.377.5264 > > > wolfbob wrote: > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > .---- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > [and don't get any better with age] > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > that was excellent. > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > Me too... > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > Cheers, Richard > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #275 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 2:11 pm Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #276 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 2:23 pm Subject: RE: richardlhess Offline Send Email I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #277 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 2:25 pm Subject: Re: allegrosound Offline Send Email I was NOT proposing any such thing; quite the opposite! Are there any recording engineers in this group who record classic music for their own audiophile label? If so, they are welcome to call me for an in-depth discussion of this problem; otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. Sorry I mentioned it, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 wolfbob wrote: This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum difdference on any deck. Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response; anyone > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > Best regards, > Rick@... > "audio in the service of music" > tel.818.377.5264 > > > wolfbob wrote: > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > .---- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > [and don't get any better with age] > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > that was excellent. > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > Me too... > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #278 From: "wolfbob" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 4:07 pm Subject: Re: wolfrobert Offline Send Email Well you really were. The MRL tapes match the standardized play equalization to better than 0.1 dB over the frequency range. When you say they are "too low in the highs" implying that one should set the the play eq lower than the tapes indicate is doing just that. It's not nice to mess with mother nature. BTW, the major reason the STANDARD tapes loose their highs is because you don't demag the decks before using them. I don't think they just wear out, although I have run some of my MRL tapes through about 200 decks. they are getting a little raggy on the ends. I am careful to demag and to insure that the tape alignment is good before I run the CAL tapes. I went through about 3-4 cal tapes before I noticed that the edges were getting beat up by missaligned guides. One just plain got eaten by a 747 gone nuts. I am not crazy about getting the frequency response dead on. Anything under a 1/2 dB is ignored and some things under a dB are accepted. I seldom work on decks of APR quality, however (mostly Teacs, Technics, Sonys, Pioneers, Akai, etc) . WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I was NOT proposing any such thing; > quite the opposite! Are there any > recording engineers in this group > who record classic music for > their own audiophile label? > If so, they are welcome to call me > for an in-depth discussion of this problem; > otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. > Sorry I mentioned it, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > wolfbob wrote: > This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. > > MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting > these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum > difdference on any deck. > > Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. > > All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. > > What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. > WBob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > > > > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > > are in-correct; choose your poison! > > If you like bright microphones [most are] > > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > > measure playback response; anyone > > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > "audio in the service of music" > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > wolfbob wrote: > > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a > one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > > > .---- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > > [and don't get any better with age] > > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > > that was excellent. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@... > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > > > Me too... > > > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the > gap as I understand it. > > > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics > wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the > DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > > Cheers, Richard > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #279 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 6:00 pm Subject: RE: bae_steve Offline Send Email I use my personal MRL's 'till the dog pisses on them, then I sell them on Ebay. All I need is a Calibrated (MRL)1Khz tone and I don't even use the rest of the tape. Learn the characteristics of your recorder's record and playback electronics, and a perfectly "flat" response is an easy tweak. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #280 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 5:50 pm Subject: Re: bae_steve Offline Send Email I've sent two MRL tapes back for replacement in the last thirty days. Not necessarily an MRL problem: Bad slit. It happens. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #281 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 6:16 pm Subject: Re: bae_steve Offline Send Email The mix is done off the Reproduce head, not the Record head. If you adjust Record Head (Sync) and Repro head Azimuth off the MRL tape, you will have Record/Play Azimuth errors. This is due to distance between the heads x tape speed x eq x bias level. The last head tweak is always to align the reproduce head to match the record head. The same w/ eq., and every other thing: You maximize in record, and compensate in reproduce. MRL is an acronym for Magnetics Reference Labratory. Not Magnetics Written in Stone Under Threat of Retaliation from God Labratory. It's a reference, not a Law. SS SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #282 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 3:13 pm Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #283 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 2:40 pm Subject: Re: masteringman... Offline Send Email Rick: > Are there any > recording engineers in this group > who record classic music for > their own audiophile label? > If so, they are welcome to call me > for an in-depth discussion of this problem; > otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. What problem? Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #284 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 6:38 pm Subject: RE: richardlhess Offline Send Email Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #285 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 6:46 pm Subject: Re: richardlhess Offline Send Email At 08:40 PM 8/7/2004 +0200, Goran Finnberg wrote: >What problem? > >Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at >all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master >so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. > >This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. Tones? Who's got tones? I get a lot of tapes -- even some from professional sources -- with no tones...or tones spliced in / recorded in a different session or a different machine. Yes, many tapes have tones, it's just that I haven't been seeing a lot lately. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #286 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 7:14 pm Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email LOL..... Richard, when my primary job WAS as a recording engineer, no session of mine EVER got made without a complete set of tones... but I know exactly what you mean. This is particularly an issue in your business, the court of "rescue the taped information from oblivion at any cost"..... I was always astonished when I'd get tapes from large, well funded studios either without tones or with poorly recorded ones. Every now and then they wouldn't send the tones reel with the session tapes, explaining that they didn't see that we'd need them for 'just overdubs'. Used to make me crazy. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 5:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] At 08:40 PM 8/7/2004 +0200, Goran Finnberg wrote: >What problem? > >Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at >all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master >so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. > >This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. Tones? Who's got tones? I get a lot of tapes -- even some from professional sources -- with no tones...or tones spliced in / recorded in a different session or a different machine. Yes, many tapes have tones, it's just that I haven't been seeing a lot lately. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #287 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 8:16 pm Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #288 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 8:26 pm Subject: RE: richardlhess Offline Send Email But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #289 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Aug 7, 2004 10:05 pm Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email that's precisely my point; MRL test tapes do NOT meet the NAB Standard [unless it allows for +/- 3db slop]. If the methodolgy "proves" MRL test tapes are correct, then the methodology is wrong! [there was a time when the status quo believed the world was flat; now it's MRL test tapes!] If you want an opinion from the guy who wrote the book on this subject, try and locate SCOTT KENT. PS, Can any test tape (assuming NAB eq, 2.00mm tracks, head bumps aside) be correct for all 2.00mm heads with differing radius and gap-widths ? For the sake of argument, assuming MRL tapes are correct on the machines MRL used to make them (ATR-102?), are they necessarily correct on the heads of my 5003/TD9/4S-TC/A700/1520 ? I don't think so..... Best regards, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #290 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 1:01 am Subject: RE: ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Rick, Regardless of the point of view, I should point this out: The APR series recorders were designed, QA prototype evaluated, and manufactured using MRL test tapes exclusively, both bulk stock and multifrequency tapes. If you like the way these recorders sound, consider what we used (yes, I was there at Sony and evaluated the prototypes for months) to do that. Once in production, test tape is like toilet paper: As soon as a test tape goes south it makes recorders aligned with it fail spec tests. The tests were always much tighter than published spec, for obvious reasons. To say the test tapes went through intense engineering scrutiny is an understatement. It is expensive for a manufacturer when a finished recorder can't make it through QC (as opposed to QA) because of test tapes. Labor costs are high. Bad enough that raw tape stock varies all over the place, sometimes even within a single reel of tape, let alone a batch of tape. We had some experience with the test tapes being damaged on the HF tones because the recorders were being aligned in production with the deck cover plates off, and some stray magnetic fields from the solenoids, leading to failed spec testing later. We beat the test tape situation well and truly into the ground to find the causes... and in general it was a .75 db drop in the 10k tones on the MRL that produced the spec failure. It was easy to pick out... just not the cause of the test tape problem, so we retested EVERYONE's test tapes. It wasn't the test tape, just the conditions we were subjecting it to. AMPEX and other test tapes showed the kind of response curves one gets when the repro HF is turned down too low and the REC HF is boosted to match. (until they were damaged too) Nice, airy top, but accurate... noop. Musical...sure, with the right program material going through it. It did depend on the basic flux reference level how that hit my ears and brain though. The choice of test tapes wasn't a policy decision. It was based on testing the tapes themselves, both for accuracy and consistency from tape to tape. None of them are perfect. Like Steve, I've had some (4 times in thirty years) problems with MRL test tapes that related to slitting.. it was always Ampex stock. I got some on Agfa stock once and the binder went south quickly (a known problem at the time), but as to the accuracy of the test tones... noop. Also, like Steve (also ex-factory), once you know the particular recorder well, it IS possible to 'get it right' with little more than an accurate 1k tone. Only when you get the repro HF setting right is it possible to get truly flat R/P HF response, and if following a test tape doesn't get you there with a healthy machine, you know what the problem is. The response curves you get in R/P if the the test tapes are sour are very distinctive. They may fit 'in spec' but are peaky at higher frequency and have a broad but slight build all through the midrange, all quite audible. These results are what you'd expect when the record and playback EQ don't dovetail as they should. I don't advocate not using the HF tones, and they must be right, but I understand his point. We never found MRL test tapes to produce this problem unless they had been exposed to external forces that degraded them, simple as that. I use Audio Precision gear to run my testing with (as, by the way, the factory did even back then), and my ears have always agreed with the curves I get, except in cases of the applied bias vs.. frequency response. I believe my ears before I believe test equipment.... but on this (the test tapes and play alignments) there is no disagreement. I believe that the applied bias in record has a more audible / objectionable influence on the frequency response in a total sense, and the types of distortion and noise produced, than 1 db at 10k on a repro test tape. Then there is the tape formulation. And the bias frequency. Pick your poison...... you could as easily say that the NAB EQ curves stink. They might... but here in the states that's what we have. I chuck the test tape when the HF tones are down by about 1/2 db, but that is just a personal choice. They are expensive. The APR recorders were, of course, not the finest recorders in the world. They were built to a tight price/performance point, and by nature that requires compromises. The weren't supposed to be Studers, they didn't cost that much. On the whole I think we (everyone at Sony) did rather well. Test tapes weren't among the compromises. I'm not dissing the other test tape manufacturers at all.... every test tape manufacturer makes concessions to the reality of tape and the recorders that use them to some extent. It seems clear that you disagree with MRL's version of test tapes. Fair enough. Many here agree with it. The same applies..... From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:05 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] that's precisely my point; MRL test tapes do NOT meet the NAB Standard [unless it allows for +/- 3db slop]. If the methodolgy "proves" MRL test tapes are correct, then the methodology is wrong! [there was a time when the status quo believed the world was flat; now it's MRL test tapes!] If you want an opinion from the guy who wrote the book on this subject, try and locate SCOTT KENT. PS, Can any test tape (assuming NAB eq, 2.00mm tracks, head bumps aside) be correct for all 2.00mm heads with differing radius and gap-widths ? For the sake of argument, assuming MRL tapes are correct on the machines MRL used to make them (ATR-102?), are they necessarily correct on the heads of my 5003/TD9/4S-TC/A700/1520 ? I don't think so..... Best regards, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #291 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 3:21 am Subject: RE: allegrosound Offline Send Email my APR is from early production, has the small, bronze heads, and the hour meter has been around the block at least once; how is it that you know what tape was used to set the playback curve on my machine? Using a dull test tape to make the Record/Play response flat doesn't fix the playback problem when played on other machines; if it did, we wouldn't need a play "standard". NagraMaster, AME, Telefunken, etc, are all better-sounding curves anyway, so why not use those if you don't care about machine-to-machine playback compatibility? And I haven't even got into the absolute-polarity problem yet! PS, I told MRL [and everyone else] not to use back-coated tape; not because I knew the binder would go bad years later, but because it didn't sound right. AllegroSound has never recorded on back-coated tape; and the back-coated tapes I have that were recorded by studios are now unplayable (yes, I know about cooking them). I'm also the guy who told SME their pretty tonearm cable seriously impaired the performance of their tonearm; they told me I had to be wrong because their state-of-the-art test equipment showed nothing could be wrong with it! some time thereafter, I applied for and was granted a U.S. Patent on an Audio Transmission Cable. The truth is out there........ http://www.AllegroSound.com Scott Phillips wrote: Rick, Regardless of the point of view, I should point this out: The APR series recorders were designed, QA prototype evaluated, and manufactured using MRL test tapes exclusively, both bulk stock and multifrequency tapes. If you like the way these recorders sound, consider what we used (yes, I was there at Sony and evaluated the prototypes for months) to do that. Once in production, test tape is like toilet paper: As soon as a test tape goes south it makes recorders aligned with it fail spec tests. The tests were always much tighter than published spec, for obvious reasons. To say the test tapes went through intense engineering scrutiny is an understatement. It is expensive for a manufacturer when a finished recorder can't make it through QC (as opposed to QA) because of test tapes. Labor costs are high. Bad enough that raw tape stock varies all over the place, sometimes even within a single reel of tape, let alone a batch of tape. We had some experience with the test tapes being damaged on the HF tones because the recorders were being aligned in production with the deck cover plates off, and some stray magnetic fields from the solenoids, leading to failed spec testing later. We beat the test tape situation well and truly into the ground to find the causes... and in general it was a .75 db drop in the 10k tones on the MRL that produced the spec failure. It was easy to pick out... just not the cause of the test tape problem, so we retested EVERYONE's test tapes. It wasn't the test tape, just the conditions we were subjecting it to. AMPEX and other test tapes showed the kind of response curves one gets when the repro HF is turned down too low and the REC HF is boosted to match. (until they were damaged too) Nice, airy top, but accurate... noop. Musical...sure, with the right program material going through it. It did depend on the basic flux reference level how that hit my ears and brain though. The choice of test tapes wasn't a policy decision. It was based on testing the tapes themselves, both for accuracy and consistency from tape to tape. None of them are perfect. Like Steve, I've had some (4 times in thirty years) problems with MRL test tapes that related to slitting.. it was always Ampex stock. I got some on Agfa stock once and the binder went south quickly (a known problem at the time), but as to the accuracy of the test tones... noop. Also, like Steve (also ex-factory), once you know the particular recorder well, it IS possible to 'get it right' with little more than an accurate 1k tone. Only when you get the repro HF setting right is it possible to get truly flat R/P HF response, and if following a test tape doesn't get you there with a healthy machine, you know what the problem is. The response curves you get in R/P if the the test tapes are sour are very distinctive. They may fit 'in spec' but are peaky at higher frequency and have a broad but slight build all through the midrange, all quite audible. These results are what you'd expect when the record and playback EQ don't dovetail as they should. I don't advocate not using the HF tones, and they must be right, but I understand his point. We never found MRL test tapes to produce this problem unless they had been exposed to external forces that degraded them, simple as that. I use Audio Precision gear to run my testing with (as, by the way, the factory did even back then), and my ears have always agreed with the curves I get, except in cases of the applied bias vs.. frequency response. I believe my ears before I believe test equipment.... but on this (the test tapes and play alignments) there is no disagreement. I believe that the applied bias in record has a more audible / objectionable influence on the frequency response in a total sense, and the types of distortion and noise produced, than 1 db at 10k on a repro test tape. Then there is the tape formulation. And the bias frequency. Pick your poison...... you could as easily say that the NAB EQ curves stink. They might... but here in the states that's what we have. I chuck the test tape when the HF tones are down by about 1/2 db, but that is just a personal choice. They are expensive. The APR recorders were, of course, not the finest recorders in the world. They were built to a tight price/performance point, and by nature that requires compromises. The weren't supposed to be Studers, they didn't cost that much. On the whole I think we (everyone at Sony) did rather well. Test tapes weren't among the compromises. I'm not dissing the other test tape manufacturers at all.... every test tape manufacturer makes concessions to the reality of tape and the recorders that use them to some extent. It seems clear that you disagree with MRL's version of test tapes. Fair enough. Many here agree with it. The same applies..... Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #292 From: "Alison Kristina" Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 3:36 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 59 alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Well! Fascinating conversation. Just a few quotes: "I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, but I use my ears!" "nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound" Rick's got a point when he says: "I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery." Has anyone here had an audiometry test recently? The results might interest you; please you, or horrify you. . . . . Even if we've protected our ears from high SPL's, our high frequency hearing response reduces with age. Not to mention that everyones hearing is different to start with. Factor in things like what mood you are in, if you've got a cold, how much ear wax you've got in your ears, and a thousand and one other variables, and what sounds great to one person is gonna sound not so great to another. For example, after extensive listening tests, my partner prefers the sound of our original 1982 Marantz CD63 to the sound of our Marantz CD85, the one with the CDM1 Transport and crown DAC. She's got to be wrong hasn't she? Anyone will tell you that the convertor in the historic CD63 sounds bright and just plain aweful when compared to modern DACs. Yet to her an over bright sound is better because, according to her audiometric readings taken in Jan 2000, she has "a bilateral sensory neural hearing loss that is symetrical in nature, in laymans terms, this means she has nerve damage in both left and right ears with a similar degree of hearing loss on both sides. Although she has a moderate loss in the lower frequencies, her main problem is the severe loss in the higher frequencies. . . . . . . ." Ok, so my partner is an extreme example, yet some people claim to be able to hear a 0.5dB drop in volume levels at different frequencies. Maybe they can, but that doesn't mean they've got good hearing. Another thing one has to factor into the equation is that if we do have hearing response problems (and everyone does to a certain extent!) our brains compensate to a greater or lesser degree. So what to one of us sounds 'right' may actually sound 'wrong' (bright or dull for example) to someone else. Especially if one person is used to setting up replay response using test equipment, and another person by ear. So maybe the test equipment is right after all? Even though the end result might sound wrong. Or maybe not, it's all very subjective! Just out of interest, no matter how hard I try, I can't hear much difference between 12 bit 32kHz and 24 bit, 96kHz. That's a terrible admission, I know, but it's the truth. Yet I know I've got good hearing becuase my recordings of outdoor brass band and jazz concerts which I've eq'd to hell and back so they 'sound right to me' have been acclaimed as sounding brilliant by many an 'audiophile' with mega bucks hi-fi. Needless to say, I don't tell them how much I've eq'd the sound of the music they're listening to. Go figure. . . . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Digest Number 59 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> There are 22 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: From: "Rick@..." 2. Re: From: Goran Finnberg 3. RE: From: "Richard L. Hess" 4. RE: From: "Scott Phillips" 5. Re: From: "wolfbob" 6. RE: From: "Rick@..." 7. RE: From: "Richard L. Hess" 8. Re: From: "Rick@..." 9. Re: From: "wolfbob" 10. RE: From: mcijh@... 11. Re: From: mcijh@... 12. Re: From: mcijh@... 13. RE: From: "Rick@..." 14. Re: From: Goran Finnberg 15. RE: From: "Richard L. Hess" 16. Re: From: "Richard L. Hess" 17. RE: From: "Scott Phillips" 18. RE: From: "Rick@..." 19. RE: From: "Richard L. Hess" 20. RE: From: "Rick@..." 21. RE: From: "Scott Phillips" 22. RE: From: "Rick@..." ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: Re: I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL are in-correct; choose your poison! If you like bright microphones [most are] and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, I sure as heck am going to use them"] then by all means, stick with the status quo. Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to measure playback response; anyone know how to locate Scott Kent ? Best regards, Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818.377.5264 wolfbob wrote: Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob .---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > [and don't get any better with age] > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > that was excellent. > Best regards, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > Me too... > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > Cheers, Richard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:08:39 +0200 From: Goran Finnberg Subject: Re: Rick@AllegroSound wrote: > If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! Most test tapes are inaccurate in that they put somewhat more on them at the top than the standard prescribes. This is done to prolong the life of the test tape. MRL and AGFA test tapes comes closest to what the standards say in my experience. Ampex and BASF are those that are hottest at the top. BASF is/was about +1/1.5 db up at 10 kHz at 15". > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. I don´t understand what this has to do with getting an accurate replay standard? Even if off as long as you put them test tones somewhere on your tape I can always adjust my machine to your standard no big deal at all. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response;¨ You´re speaking about using a flux loop. Very good for checking the electrical replay response but you´re unable to compensate for replay head gap losses. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 10:17:47 -0700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Subject: RE: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >MRL tapes are down at the top-end >[and don't get any better with age] >resulting in a boosted playback curve; >nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound >(except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). >Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. >Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me >(recorded full-track with erased guard-band) >that was excellent. >Best regards, >Rick@... >tel.818.377.5264 > >PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > >"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: >Me too... >Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the >gap as I understand it. >That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics >wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least >the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the >low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). >Cheers, Richard > > >Do you Yahoo!? >New >and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >1ab73b.jpg >1ab77a.jpg > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:52:57 -0500 From: "Scott Phillips" Subject: RE: Richard's experience fits with mine as well. I note the R/P performance and generally see a small midrange 'lift' if the HF portion of the test tape used is too low from whatever reason. I don't see that with a healthy MRL, but then I replace my personal test tapes at least once a year, or more often depending on how often they are used.... ________________________________ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 12:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 10:59:58 -0700 From: "wolfbob" Subject: Re: This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum difdference on any deck. Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response; anyone > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > Best regards, > Rick@... > "audio in the service of music" > tel.818.377.5264 > > > wolfbob wrote: > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > .---- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > [and don't get any better with age] > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > that was excellent. > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > Me too... > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > Cheers, Richard > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: RE: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:23:41 -0700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Subject: RE: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: >maybe that's the problem! >Rick@... >tel.818.377.5264 > >"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes >were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were >aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done >this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. > >Cheers, > >RIchard > >At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>MRL tapes are down at the top-end >>[and don't get any better with age] >>resulting in a boosted playback curve; >>nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound >>(except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). >>Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. >>Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me >>(recorded full-track with erased guard-band) >>that was excellent. >>Best regards, >>Rick@... >>tel.818.377.5264 >> >>PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? >> >> >>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >> >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: >>Me too... >>Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the >>gap as I understand it. >>That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics >>wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least >>the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at >>the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). >>Cheers, Richard > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! >Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >5595e9.jpg >559637.jpg > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: Re: I was NOT proposing any such thing; quite the opposite! Are there any recording engineers in this group who record classic music for their own audiophile label? If so, they are welcome to call me for an in-depth discussion of this problem; otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. Sorry I mentioned it, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 wolfbob wrote: This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum difdference on any deck. Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > are in-correct; choose your poison! > If you like bright microphones [most are] > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > measure playback response; anyone > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > Best regards, > Rick@... > "audio in the service of music" > tel.818.377.5264 > > > wolfbob wrote: > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > .---- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > [and don't get any better with age] > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > that was excellent. > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > Me too... > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > Cheers, Richard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:07:18 -0700 From: "wolfbob" Subject: Re: Well you really were. The MRL tapes match the standardized play equalization to better than 0.1 dB over the frequency range. When you say they are "too low in the highs" implying that one should set the the play eq lower than the tapes indicate is doing just that. It's not nice to mess with mother nature. BTW, the major reason the STANDARD tapes loose their highs is because you don't demag the decks before using them. I don't think they just wear out, although I have run some of my MRL tapes through about 200 decks. they are getting a little raggy on the ends. I am careful to demag and to insure that the tape alignment is good before I run the CAL tapes. I went through about 3-4 cal tapes before I noticed that the edges were getting beat up by missaligned guides. One just plain got eaten by a 747 gone nuts. I am not crazy about getting the frequency response dead on. Anything under a 1/2 dB is ignored and some things under a dB are accepted. I seldom work on decks of APR quality, however (mostly Teacs, Technics, Sonys, Pioneers, Akai, etc) . WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > I was NOT proposing any such thing; > quite the opposite! Are there any > recording engineers in this group > who record classic music for > their own audiophile label? > If so, they are welcome to call me > for an in-depth discussion of this problem; > otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. > Sorry I mentioned it, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > wolfbob wrote: > This is not a flame but an observation. You are not wrong, and I suspect you are typical. > > MRL and a lot of machine technicians work hard to make decks as transparent as possible. To do this you need standards so one recording can be properly played on another deck and you need tools to insure that the deck is meeting > these standards. Flat overall frequency response with as little added distortion as possible are the laws of the machine designer and subsequent alignment and calibration operations. Since the record parameters are not uniform throughout the record/play chain the parameters are broken into two parts the record and the play. There are standards to insure that this separation of characteristics is the same from deck to deck so a tape made 0n one deck can be played with minimum > difdference on any deck. > > Now comes the musicians and mixers that seem to consider the available characteristics of the tape deck to be part of the sound they want. They tailor the parameters of the recording deck to make the deck part of the music and not just a device for capturing the music. > > All is fair if you just mess with the recording parameters and leave the playback alone, set to the standards so that you will get repeatable performance when the tape with it's boogered record is played on any deck. > > What you are proposing is to change the play performance to get the sound you like. I think this is the wrong place to mess with the sound. I believe the tape deck should as a minimum be up to full playpack standards and at best meet both the play and record standards of transparency as well. > WBob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:41 AM > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > > > > I know it's heresy in the pro-audio field, > > but I use my ears! If MRL tapes are > > correct, then Ampex, Studer & STL > > are in-correct; choose your poison! > > If you like bright microphones [most are] > > and HF eq ["I paid for all those knobs, > > I sure as heck am going to use them"] > > then by all means, stick with the status quo. > > Scott Kent had a tape-less setup to > > measure playback response; anyone > > know how to locate Scott Kent ? > > Best regards, > > Rick@... > > "audio in the service of music" > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > wolfbob wrote: > > Now how do YOU tell if the MRL tapes are wrong. They have the best equipment, the best quality control and some very smart folk dedicated to making the best possible products. They are responsible for more tape recrding technical knowledge and education than ANY other recording industry > > manufacturer. They are also largely responsible for all of the testing standards for tape recorders. The MRL tapes I have are all tested with equipment far better than my lab can do and they do not show any loss at high frequencies (flat from 32 to 20kHz within 0.1dB) and they are still in business supporting us in the industry. I hate to be challenging you on a > one to one basis...waste of my time. WBob > > > > .---- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:43 PM > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > > > > > MRL tapes are down at the top-end > > > [and don't get any better with age] > > > resulting in a boosted playback curve; > > > nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound > > > (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). > > > Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. > > > Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me > > > (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) > > > that was excellent. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@... > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: > > > > > > Me too... > > > > > > Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the > gap as I understand it. > > > > > > That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics > wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the > DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low > > end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). > > > Cheers, Richard > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:00:17 -0400 From: mcijh@... Subject: RE: I use my personal MRL's 'till the dog pisses on them, then I sell them on Ebay. All I need is a Calibrated (MRL)1Khz tone and I don't even use the rest of the tape. Learn the characteristics of your recorder's record and playback electronics, and a perfectly "flat" response is an easy tweak. SS ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:50:31 -0400 From: mcijh@... Subject: Re: I've sent two MRL tapes back for replacement in the last thirty days. Not necessarily an MRL problem: Bad slit. It happens. SS ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:16:38 -0400 From: mcijh@... Subject: Re: The mix is done off the Reproduce head, not the Record head. If you adjust Record Head (Sync) and Repro head Azimuth off the MRL tape, you will have Record/Play Azimuth errors. This is due to distance between the heads x tape speed x eq x bias level. The last head tweak is always to align the reproduce head to match the record head. The same w/ eq., and every other thing: You maximize in record, and compensate in reproduce. MRL is an acronym for Magnetics Reference Labratory. Not Magnetics Written in Stone Under Threat of Retaliation from God Labratory. It's a reference, not a Law. SS SS ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: RE: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 20:40:47 +0200 From: Goran Finnberg Subject: Re: Rick: > Are there any > recording engineers in this group > who record classic music for > their own audiophile label? > If so, they are welcome to call me > for an in-depth discussion of this problem; > otherwise, I'm beatin' a deaf horse. What problem? Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 15:38:34 -0700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Subject: RE: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Richard, are you refering to >Record/Play, or Play ??? >Rick@... >"audio in the service of music" >tel.818. 377.5264 > > >"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends >as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a >bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard >tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite >regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. > >It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would >not allow early machines to meet spec. > >The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have >this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap >compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment >you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. >This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. > >As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine >as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be >transparent: no difference between source and tape. > >A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" >and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: >>maybe that's the problem! >>Rick@... >>tel.818.377.5264 >> >>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes >>were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were >>aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done >>this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. >>Cheers, >>RIchard >>At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>>MRL tapes are down at the top-end >>>[and don't get any better with age] >>>resulting in a boosted playback curve; >>>nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound >>>(except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). >>>Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. >>>Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me >>>(recorded full-track with erased guard-band) >>>that was excellent. >>>Best regards, >>>Rick@... >>>tel.818.377.5264 >>> >>>PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? >>> >>>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>>At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >>> >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: >>>Me too... >>>Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the >>>gap as I understand it. >>>That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics >>>wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least >>>the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at >>>the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). >>>Cheers, Richard >> >> >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! >>Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >>ADVERTISEMENT >>13ef1f6.jpg >>13ef235.jpg >> >> >>---------- >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> * >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ >> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> * >> sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >> Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! >Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >13ef244.jpg >13ef264.jpg > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 15:46:40 -0700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Subject: Re: At 08:40 PM 8/7/2004 +0200, Goran Finnberg wrote: >What problem? > >Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at >all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master >so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. > >This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. Tones? Who's got tones? I get a lot of tapes -- even some from professional sources -- with no tones...or tones spliced in / recorded in a different session or a different machine. Yes, many tapes have tones, it's just that I haven't been seeing a lot lately. Cheers, Richard ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 18:14:14 -0500 From: "Scott Phillips" Subject: RE: LOL..... Richard, when my primary job WAS as a recording engineer, no session of mine EVER got made without a complete set of tones... but I know exactly what you mean. This is particularly an issue in your business, the court of "rescue the taped information from oblivion at any cost"..... I was always astonished when I'd get tapes from large, well funded studios either without tones or with poorly recorded ones. Every now and then they wouldn't send the tones reel with the session tapes, explaining that they didn't see that we'd need them for 'just overdubs'. Used to make me crazy. ________________________________ From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 5:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] At 08:40 PM 8/7/2004 +0200, Goran Finnberg wrote: >What problem? > >Even if the test tape is off 5 dB at the top it makes no difference at >all in the end as long as proper test tones has been put on the master >so one can adjust the final master replay machine to your record curve. > >This is a total non issue if you´ve got tones on your tape. Tones? Who's got tones? I get a lot of tapes -- even some from professional sources -- with no tones...or tones spliced in / recorded in a different session or a different machine. Yes, many tapes have tones, it's just that I haven't been seeing a lot lately. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: RE: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:26:59 -0700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Subject: RE: But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Richard, thank you for making my point. >As a music collector first, I'm concerned >with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that >you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's >wrong with a lot of today's recordings. >I wonder how many sound engineers >know that sound pressure levels over >85-db/average will cause permanent >hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater >than this are commonplace in studios! >the fact that the vast majority of studio >engineers seem to like bright mics, >gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] >is no great mystery. >PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the >highs the day I bought them and played >them on correctly-degaused heads >[better to not degause than do it wrong!]; >give me a break from the obvious, please! >if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL >are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and >heads drop with age, what sense does it make >to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err >on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew >a thing or two about analog tape; after all, >they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). >Best regards and safe spl's, >Rick@... >world's finest microphone tubes >tel.818.377.5264 > > >"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >Playing a test tape, Rick. > >The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the >flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>Richard, are you refering to >>Record/Play, or Play ??? >>Rick@... >>"audio in the service of music" >>tel.818. 377.5264 >> >> >>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends >>as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a >>bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard >>tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite >>regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. >>It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would >>not allow early machines to meet spec. >>The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have >>this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap >>compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment >>you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. >>This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. >>As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape >>machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be >>transparent: no difference between source and tape. >>A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" >>and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. >>Cheers, >>Richard >>At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: >>>maybe that's the problem! >>>Rick@... >>>tel.818.377.5264 >>>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>>Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test >>>tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines >>>were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have >>>done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. >>>Cheers, >>>RIchard >>>At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>>>MRL tapes are down at the top-end >>>>[and don't get any better with age] >>>>resulting in a boosted playback curve; >>>>nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound >>>>(except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). >>>>Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. >>>>Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me >>>>(recorded full-track with erased guard-band) >>>>that was excellent. >>>>Best regards, >>>>Rick@... >>>>tel.818.377.5264 >>>>PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? >>>>"Richard L. Hess" wrote: >>>>At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: >>>>Me too... >>>>Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the >>>>gap as I understand it. >>>>That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics >>>>wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at >>>>least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test >>>>tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are >>>>no slouch). >>>>Cheers, Richard > > >Do you Yahoo!? >New >and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >1a2319e.jpg >1a231cc.jpg > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 20 Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 19:05:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: RE: that's precisely my point; MRL test tapes do NOT meet the NAB Standard [unless it allows for +/- 3db slop]. If the methodolgy "proves" MRL test tapes are correct, then the methodology is wrong! [there was a time when the status quo believed the world was flat; now it's MRL test tapes!] If you want an opinion from the guy who wrote the book on this subject, try and locate SCOTT KENT. PS, Can any test tape (assuming NAB eq, 2.00mm tracks, head bumps aside) be correct for all 2.00mm heads with differing radius and gap-widths ? For the sake of argument, assuming MRL tapes are correct on the machines MRL used to make them (ATR-102?), are they necessarily correct on the heads of my 5003/TD9/4S-TC/A700/1520 ? I don't think so..... Best regards, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 21 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:01:59 -0500 From: "Scott Phillips" Subject: RE: Rick, Regardless of the point of view, I should point this out: The APR series recorders were designed, QA prototype evaluated, and manufactured using MRL test tapes exclusively, both bulk stock and multifrequency tapes. If you like the way these recorders sound, consider what we used (yes, I was there at Sony and evaluated the prototypes for months) to do that. Once in production, test tape is like toilet paper: As soon as a test tape goes south it makes recorders aligned with it fail spec tests. The tests were always much tighter than published spec, for obvious reasons. To say the test tapes went through intense engineering scrutiny is an understatement. It is expensive for a manufacturer when a finished recorder can't make it through QC (as opposed to QA) because of test tapes. Labor costs are high. Bad enough that raw tape stock varies all over the place, sometimes even within a single reel of tape, let alone a batch of tape. We had some experience with the test tapes being damaged on the HF tones because the recorders were being aligned in production with the deck cover plates off, and some stray magnetic fields from the solenoids, leading to failed spec testing later. We beat the test tape situation well and truly into the ground to find the causes... and in general it was a .75 db drop in the 10k tones on the MRL that produced the spec failure. It was easy to pick out... just not the cause of the test tape problem, so we retested EVERYONE's test tapes. It wasn't the test tape, just the conditions we were subjecting it to. AMPEX and other test tapes showed the kind of response curves one gets when the repro HF is turned down too low and the REC HF is boosted to match. (until they were damaged too) Nice, airy top, but accurate... noop. Musical...sure, with the right program material going through it. It did depend on the basic flux reference level how that hit my ears and brain though. The choice of test tapes wasn't a policy decision. It was based on testing the tapes themselves, both for accuracy and consistency from tape to tape. None of them are perfect. Like Steve, I've had some (4 times in thirty years) problems with MRL test tapes that related to slitting.. it was always Ampex stock. I got some on Agfa stock once and the binder went south quickly (a known problem at the time), but as to the accuracy of the test tones... noop. Also, like Steve (also ex-factory), once you know the particular recorder well, it IS possible to 'get it right' with little more than an accurate 1k tone. Only when you get the repro HF setting right is it possible to get truly flat R/P HF response, and if following a test tape doesn't get you there with a healthy machine, you know what the problem is. The response curves you get in R/P if the the test tapes are sour are very distinctive. They may fit 'in spec' but are peaky at higher frequency and have a broad but slight build all through the midrange, all quite audible. These results are what you'd expect when the record and playback EQ don't dovetail as they should. I don't advocate not using the HF tones, and they must be right, but I understand his point. We never found MRL test tapes to produce this problem unless they had been exposed to external forces that degraded them, simple as that. I use Audio Precision gear to run my testing with (as, by the way, the factory did even back then), and my ears have always agreed with the curves I get, except in cases of the applied bias vs.. frequency response. I believe my ears before I believe test equipment.... but on this (the test tapes and play alignments) there is no disagreement. I believe that the applied bias in record has a more audible / objectionable influence on the frequency response in a total sense, and the types of distortion and noise produced, than 1 db at 10k on a repro test tape. Then there is the tape formulation. And the bias frequency. Pick your poison...... you could as easily say that the NAB EQ curves stink. They might... but here in the states that's what we have. I chuck the test tape when the HF tones are down by about 1/2 db, but that is just a personal choice. They are expensive. The APR recorders were, of course, not the finest recorders in the world. They were built to a tight price/performance point, and by nature that requires compromises. The weren't supposed to be Studers, they didn't cost that much. On the whole I think we (everyone at Sony) did rather well. Test tapes weren't among the compromises. I'm not dissing the other test tape manufacturers at all.... every test tape manufacturer makes concessions to the reality of tape and the recorders that use them to some extent. It seems clear that you disagree with MRL's version of test tapes. Fair enough. Many here agree with it. The same applies..... ________________________________ From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:05 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] that's precisely my point; MRL test tapes do NOT meet the NAB Standard [unless it allows for +/- 3db slop]. If the methodolgy "proves" MRL test tapes are correct, then the methodology is wrong! [there was a time when the status quo believed the world was flat; now it's MRL test tapes!] If you want an opinion from the guy who wrote the book on this subject, try and locate SCOTT KENT. PS, Can any test tape (assuming NAB eq, 2.00mm tracks, head bumps aside) be correct for all 2.00mm heads with differing radius and gap-widths ? For the sake of argument, assuming MRL tapes are correct on the machines MRL used to make them (ATR-102?), are they necessarily correct on the heads of my 5003/TD9/4S-TC/A700/1520 ? I don't think so..... Best regards, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: But, Rick, if the tapes are hotter and do not meet the standard as published, what good are they? At 05:16 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, thank you for making my point. As a music collector first, I'm concerned with correct PLAYback curve; the fact that you can "fix it in the mix" is exactly what's wrong with a lot of today's recordings. I wonder how many sound engineers know that sound pressure levels over 85-db/average will cause permanent hearing damage; spl's 30-db greater than this are commonplace in studios! the fact that the vast majority of studio engineers seem to like bright mics, gobs of HF eq [and dull test tapes] is no great mystery. PS, all my MRL tapes were down in the highs the day I bought them and played them on correctly-degaused heads [better to not degause than do it wrong!]; give me a break from the obvious, please! if MRL is right, then Ampex, Studerand STL are all wrong! if the top-end on test tapes and heads drop with age, what sense does it make to err on the dull [test tape] side; why not err on the brighter side? Ampex and Studer knew a thing or two about analog tape; after all, they made some good machines (MR-70, C-37). Best regards and safe spl's, Rick@... world's finest microphone tubes tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Playing a test tape, Rick. The Ampex tapes ARE hotter than the MRL tapes (the latter matching the flux loop. Gap loss is part of the equation, too. Cheers, Richard At 12:13 PM 8/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: Richard, are you refering to Record/Play, or Play ??? Rick@... "audio in the service of music" tel.818. 377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: I found this out when I sold an APR to a friend of one of my best friends as a favor. The friend-of-the-friend called me up to tell me the HF was a bit hot. My friend who had worked at a major US manufacturer of standard tapes informed me of the fact. Jay McKnight (with whom I speak quite regularly) confirmed the fact and informed me of the BASF "hot-ness" as well. It was apparently done to compensate for gap loss or something that would not allow early machines to meet spec. The A810 (and I believe A812/A816/A20 but NOT the A807) and the APR have this right with both an EQ and a repro gap compensator. The repro gap compensator on the A810 is called "treble" and is the primary adjustment you diddle. The EQ is the secondary adjustment and is fixed on the A807. This means that it's harder to use non-Studer heads in the A807. As Wolf Bob pointed out, all this is moot if you're using the tape machine as a processor. I'm from the camp that the tape machine should be transparent: no difference between source and tape. A person who bought an APR emailed me complaining it sounded so "digital" and I suggested he boost the record level. He was then happy. Cheers, Richard At 11:11 AM 8/7/2004 -0700, Rick@... wrote: maybe that's the problem! Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Well, that's interesting as I thought that both BASF and Ampex test tapes were a little boosted at the high end...Of course, many machines were aligned to these tapes, but as I understand it from people who have done this, comparing the MRL tapes to a flux loop response has them dead on. Cheers, RIchard At 10:43 PM 8/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: MRL tapes are down at the top-end [and don't get any better with age] resulting in a boosted playback curve; nothing sounds worse than bright, thin sound (except, of course, for bright, thin, distorted sound). Ampex, Studer and STL test tapes are more accurate. Years ago, STL made a custom pink-noise tape for me (recorded full-track with erased guard-band) that was excellent. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 PS, anyone know how to reach Scott Kent ??? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:19 PM 8/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I really hate to stick my foot into this discussion, but: Me too... Also consider that LF repro head bumps are an artifact of more than the gap as I understand it. That may be one of the reasons that Sony offered the Applied Magnetics wideface heads on the APR series. The Studer 318 "glass" heads (at least the DIN ones that I have) are amazingly smooth off an MRL test tape at the low end. Better than the Woelkes with the APRs (which are no slouch). Cheers, Richard ________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:21:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick@..." Subject: RE: my APR is from early production, has the small, bronze heads, and the hour meter has been around the block at least once; how is it that you know what tape was used to set the playback curve on my machine? Using a dull test tape to make the Record/Play response flat doesn't fix the playback problem when played on other machines; if it did, we wouldn't need a play "standard". NagraMaster, AME, Telefunken, etc, are all better-sounding curves anyway, so why not use those if you don't care about machine-to-machine playback compatibility? And I haven't even got into the absolute-polarity problem yet! PS, I told MRL [and everyone else] not to use back-coated tape; not because I knew the binder would go bad years later, but because it didn't sound right. AllegroSound has never recorded on back-coated tape; and the back-coated tapes I have that were recorded by studios are now unplayable (yes, I know about cooking them). I'm also the guy who told SME their pretty tonearm cable seriously impaired the performance of their tonearm; they told me I had to be wrong because their state-of-the-art test equipment showed nothing could be wrong with it! some time thereafter, I applied for and was granted a U.S. Patent on an Audio Transmission Cable. The truth is out there........ http://www.AllegroSound.com Scott Phillips wrote: Rick, Regardless of the point of view, I should point this out: The APR series recorders were designed, QA prototype evaluated, and manufactured using MRL test tapes exclusively, both bulk stock and multifrequency tapes. If you like the way these recorders sound, consider what we used (yes, I was there at Sony and evaluated the prototypes for months) to do that. Once in production, test tape is like toilet paper: As soon as a test tape goes south it makes recorders aligned with it fail spec tests. The tests were always much tighter than published spec, for obvious reasons. To say the test tapes went through intense engineering scrutiny is an understatement. It is expensive for a manufacturer when a finished recorder can't make it through QC (as opposed to QA) because of test tapes. Labor costs are high. Bad enough that raw tape stock varies all over the place, sometimes even within a single reel of tape, let alone a batch of tape. We had some experience with the test tapes being damaged on the HF tones because the recorders were being aligned in production with the deck cover plates off, and some stray magnetic fields from the solenoids, leading to failed spec testing later. We beat the test tape situation well and truly into the ground to find the causes... and in general it was a .75 db drop in the 10k tones on the MRL that produced the spec failure. It was easy to pick out... just not the cause of the test tape problem, so we retested EVERYONE's test tapes. It wasn't the test tape, just the conditions we were subjecting it to. AMPEX and other test tapes showed the kind of response curves one gets when the repro HF is turned down too low and the REC HF is boosted to match. (until they were damaged too) Nice, airy top, but accurate... noop. Musical...sure, with the right program material going through it. It did depend on the basic flux reference level how that hit my ears and brain though. The choice of test tapes wasn't a policy decision. It was based on testing the tapes themselves, both for accuracy and consistency from tape to tape. None of them are perfect. Like Steve, I've had some (4 times in thirty years) problems with MRL test tapes that related to slitting.. it was always Ampex stock. I got some on Agfa stock once and the binder went south quickly (a known problem at the time), but as to the accuracy of the test tones... noop. Also, like Steve (also ex-factory), once you know the particular recorder well, it IS possible to 'get it right' with little more than an accurate 1k tone. Only when you get the repro HF setting right is it possible to get truly flat R/P HF response, and if following a test tape doesn't get you there with a healthy machine, you know what the problem is. The response curves you get in R/P if the the test tapes are sour are very distinctive. They may fit 'in spec' but are peaky at higher frequency and have a broad but slight build all through the midrange, all quite audible. These results are what you'd expect when the record and playback EQ don't dovetail as they should. I don't advocate not using the HF tones, and they must be right, but I understand his point. We never found MRL test tapes to produce this problem unless they had been exposed to external forces that degraded them, simple as that. I use Audio Precision gear to run my testing with (as, by the way, the factory did even back then), and my ears have always agreed with the curves I get, except in cases of the applied bias vs.. frequency response. I believe my ears before I believe test equipment.... but on this (the test tapes and play alignments) there is no disagreement. I believe that the applied bias in record has a more audible / objectionable influence on the frequency response in a total sense, and the types of distortion and noise produced, than 1 db at 10k on a repro test tape. Then there is the tape formulation. And the bias frequency. Pick your poison...... you could as easily say that the NAB EQ curves stink. They might... but here in the states that's what we have. I chuck the test tape when the HF tones are down by about 1/2 db, but that is just a personal choice. They are expensive. The APR recorders were, of course, not the finest recorders in the world. They were built to a tight price/performance point, and by nature that requires compromises. The weren't supposed to be Studers, they didn't cost that much. On the whole I think we (everyone at Sony) did rather well. Test tapes weren't among the compromises. I'm not dissing the other test tape manufacturers at all.... every test tape manufacturer makes concessions to the reality of tape and the recorders that use them to some extent. It seems clear that you disagree with MRL's version of test tapes. Fair enough. Many here agree with it. The same applies..... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #293 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 7:41 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 59 bae_steve Offline Send Email I don't know who the hell you are "Allison", or why the hell you're waisting our time w/ such trivial shit. Everything you've said we've lived, and still do. You've got a lot of Damn gall coming onto a specific Analog Tape machine "semi" private forum and talkin' about digital toys. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #294 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 7:45 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 59 bae_steve Offline Send Email P.S. What the hell is the "digest"? If anything I've submitted of this forum is used for profit of any kind, Prepared to be sued. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #295 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 7:58 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 59 bae_steve Offline Send Email Nevermind, I get the digest part, just not the Digital....newcomer. -- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > P.S. What the hell is the "digest"? If anything I've submitted on this forum is used for profit of any kind: Be prepared to be sued. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #296 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 8, 2004 8:23 pm Subject: Re: bae_steve Offline Send Email I think if you record @ 15 ips and playback @ 30 ips, the frequency doubles. And if you record @ 15 ips (listening to/watching the Reproduce head), and Record @ 30 ips (listening to/watching the Reproduce head); you'll only see/hear a difference in the Alignment and noise. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "wolfbob" wrote: > AHHH..a glimmer of comprehension is emerging. the efficiency of the gap is > related to the gap size and the wavelength. No, I don't get it as I still > have the visual of the sinewave of flux going by the gap at the same speed. > If the tape speed is higher, the wavelength on the tape is longer so the > sinewave is still going by the gap at the same speed. d(flux)/dt is still > the same. I guess I will hit the books to see if I can get a more better > visual. > > WBob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Phillips" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:26 AM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] > > > The head gap of a recorder's reproduce head and the tape speed of the > transport determine the 'wavelength' of the reproduce head. The > wavelength determines the center frequency of a recorder's > frequency-response specification. This is the point of maximum > efficiency of the head for a given input flux level. Once you pass this > center frequency, both below and above, the output voltage level of the > recorder's reproduce head will decrease..... > > ________________________________ > > From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@c...] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:03 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] > > > Sorry but I still do see it. I think I am wrong but I just don't get it. > The > rate of change of flux in the gap is independent of the wavelength. It > is > changing at 20 Hz. The signal is at 20 Hz and if the tape is whizzing by > at > 1 ips or 60 ips, the rate of change is still 20 Hz, assuming it was > recorded > at what ever speed is being run. > > WBob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Phillips" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:28 AM > Subject: [sony_apr] > > > You've forgotten to factor in the size of the gap itself compared to the > wavelength. It isn't that you can't have a gap size that would work at > 20 Hz at high tape speeds, it is just that it would be unsuitable at > other frequencies and tape speeds. The compromise in gap size is a > needed evil. > > In my experience, the 30 ips low frequency response of most recorders is > pretty smooth, with a broad but gentle head bump, but it rolls off > early. 15 ips response goes much lower before rolling off, but tends to > have more and narrower head bumps in response down low. 'Some' recorders > play games with the electronics low frequency playback EQ curves (all on > the QT, as this is not following the EQ standard) to make the R/P > response at either speed look flatter, but this is clearly wrong headed. > > ________________________________ > > From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@c...] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:46 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Dolby A or SR? > > > My old brain is having problems with why the play head cannot read 20 Hz > at > 30 ips. My thinking says that the voltage out of the play head is > related to > the rate of change of flux in the gap for wavelengths that are very > large > compared to the head gap. This indicates that the response would be > independent of tape speed, as the rate of change of flux in the gap is > 20 > Hz/sec. What did I miss? > > I thought the head bumps at 30 ips moved up in frequency to where they > were > a major issue and this discouraged the use of that speed. > > WBob > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1091865777/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/*h tt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=141705253> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #297 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 12:30 am Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming richardlhess Offline Send Email It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in England who wants to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in mind when I scanned the manual. Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups (although it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather than just the digest). I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each new member has to write me a note as to why they want to join. I know we have a very important core group here who actually worked on the APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people who are just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty business of tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be permitted in the list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't know. There's already the backroom list that was created for that purpose as a sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as there are many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack and if you think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll deal with it, because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like everyone to feel comfortable and relaxed here. OK? You can reach me at arclists@... or owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer lists. I don't have the time. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #298 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 3:49 am Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Forgive me for causing such a stir, it was definately not my intention.Digital APR's have been discused in some detail in previous messages,so I didn't realise that 'digital' was a dirty word on this forum. I was mearly using digital for illustrative purposes as it is what I know best,like one or two other members here. As Richard points out, I was indeed replying to a comment made by Rick from Allegrosound who brought to our attention the fact that it's our ears that are at the end of the music chain, and that our ears do not always have a flat frequency response. I first set eyes on an APR5003V back in the mid 80's and asked the price. Needless to say, there was no way I could have ever afforded one. Dreams can however come true and thanks to ebay, my APR5003 (Sn 21115 build 88A) takes pride of place ontop of my other equipment, and in daily use. Again, sorry for any upset I have caused. Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #299 From: toro Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 10:59 am Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming toro3stream Offline Send Email I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in England who wants to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in mind when I scanned the manual. Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups (although it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather than just the digest). I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each new member has to write me a note as to why they want to join. I know we have a very important core group here who actually worked on the APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people who are just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty business of tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be permitted in the list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't know. There's already the backroom list that was created for that purpose as a sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as there are many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack and if you think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll deal with it, because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like everyone to feel comfortable and relaxed here. OK? You can reach me at arclists@... or owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer lists. I don't have the time. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #300 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 11:37 am Subject: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? ladewd Offline Send Email Which machines have surface mount chips and which don't?? Scott Wilson, Since no one accurately answered you and got into the MRL discussion instead, I'll chime in here to answer you. The later APR24 and 5003V machines had surface mount chips. I would estimate probably those manufactured after '94 used the SMT chips. I still have most of the documentation and could look up serial numbers for you, but right now I'm on crutches and can't get out to the garage to get to my manuals. There is functionally no difference in the design, except for the use of different I/O chips and a small change in signal path. The I/O chips used on the SMT boards were SSM2041 and 2042 chips which I have seen fail more often than the original hybrids used on the thru hole machines. The SSM chips were the only thru hole ICs on the card. These chips are available from Analog Devices but to purchase them directly from the manufacturer, you have to buy more than you'll probably ever need. In a pinch, Analog Devices will send you 3 samples of each if you ask, but you have to tell them you're designing something and you will use the chips in your design. Sony doesn't stock the chips anymore, and finding them individually isn't the easiest thing in the world. For this reason alone, I usually recommend the non-SMT machines. I have never seen the original hybrids fail. There is one advantage to the SMT machines cards. That is, less TC crosstalk in the audio. The APR series uses a summing bus to distribute alignment tones and timecode to all of the channels. There was a TC crosstalk problem with the thru hole APR Channel cards. The crosstalk was well below the tape noise, but could be heard if you turned the monitors up to a ridiculous level. Of course, customers complained, since everyone cranks up their machine to the max when they get it (well not everyone, but you get the idea). There was a modification done to the standard through hole channel cards to rreduce the crosstalk, but it was extrememly messy, difficult, and not really worth doing. We only did the modification on a as-needed basis. If you don't use time code, this is a non- issue. I would still recommend getting the through hole version. Screw the modification, since the xtalk was negligable. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Hi Everyone > > Thanks again for all the great information! > > Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface > mount chips and which don¹t?? This would be a decisive factor over which > machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could > handle this? > > Thanks again!! > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > Milwaukee WI USA Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #301 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 11:42 am Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, toro wrote: > am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I've been offline for most of last week, so I didn't see your post requesting help until this morning. What questions do you have in particular regarding operation of the machine? It gets so quiet around here, that sometimes I stop checking. I was very suprised with the amount of new posts when I signed on this morning. Regards, Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #302 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 12:10 pm Subject: RE: On and off-topic / flaming ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if I can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If this is the one I'll try to help: Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR-5003 (is it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some operating tips. I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to operation. On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea to go from MIDI synch to XLR? Thanks, Matt Montoro www.thirdstreammusic.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #303 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 12:28 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ladewd Offline Send Email Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! Sorry. It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? I'll try to help you out on this. I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but availability is a problem. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if I > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If this is > the one I'll try to help: > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- 5003 (is > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > operating tips. > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to > operation. > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > Thanks, > Matt Montoro > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning video > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 track > machine with a center time code track. > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. However, I > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track heads > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you are > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I understand > your particular use context. > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of the > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types of > music... > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the list. > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a pretty > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital recorders > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels to the > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other causes > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need more > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is not > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If your MIDI > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output SMPTE > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you will > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) and a > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, I'm > not sure off hand. > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help more. > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've seen, > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > ________________________________ > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > England who wants > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in > mind when I > scanned the manual. > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups > (although > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > than just the > digest). > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each > new member > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > worked on the > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people > who are > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > business of > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > permitted in the > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't > know. > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > purpose as a > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as > there are > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > and if you > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > deal with it, > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > everyone to feel > comfortable and relaxed here. > > OK? > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > lists. > > I don't have the time. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* htt > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #304 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 12:49 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Toro: I'll be glad to help you any way I can. Feel free to call at your convenience, or, if you're located in the Cont.USA, email your #'s and I will call you. Best regards, Rick@... Buy-Sell-Trade-Mod-Repair tel.818.377.5264 toro wrote: I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #305 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming allegrosound Offline Send Email I have a source for EMTEC tape; anyone wishing to place an order may contact me directly. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 ladewd wrote: Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! Sorry. It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? I'll try to help you out on this. I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but availability is a problem. Cary Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #306 From: toro Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:11 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming toro3stream Offline Send Email The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the high input levels?). To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute to the lack of a sync). Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of the previous recorded track. The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning of the recording). Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! Matt Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! Sorry. It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? I'll try to help you out on this. I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but availability is a problem. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if I > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If this is > the one I'll try to help: > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- 5003 (is > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > operating tips. > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to > operation. > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > Thanks, > Matt Montoro > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning video > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 track > machine with a center time code track. > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. However, I > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track heads > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you are > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I understand > your particular use context. > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of the > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types of > music... > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the list. > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a pretty > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital recorders > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels to the > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other causes > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need more > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is not > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If your MIDI > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output SMPTE > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you will > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) and a > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, I'm > not sure off hand. > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help more. > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've seen, > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > ________________________________ > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > England who wants > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in > mind when I > scanned the manual. > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups > (although > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > than just the > digest). > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each > new member > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > worked on the > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people > who are > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > business of > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > permitted in the > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't > know. > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > purpose as a > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as > there are > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > and if you > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > deal with it, > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > everyone to feel > comfortable and relaxed here. > > OK? > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > lists. > > I don't have the time. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* htt > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #307 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:23 pm Subject: RE: On and off-topic / flaming richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Scott, I'm glad Toro has the manual. It helps. What tape? There are no options anymore: Quantegy is it. GP9 is probably the best choice for transparency. It's an old 3M formulation. I haven't used it. It's just the one I will use if it's still available when my Emtec 911 runs out. Bernie Grundman mastering bought 20 12.5" reels of Emtec 911 from me last summer. I'm hoarding my last 20 1/4" 12.5" reels of 911 plus my 200 7" reels...although 120 of those are earmarked for a client. 911 was sweet tape, but it will probably never be made again. India is developing a magnetic recording base. I wonder what they use for tape and if it's any good. Apparently there is an Indian maker of heads for Studer and other machines now. More specifically, both the 5003 and the 5003V are center-track-timecode machines. The rear panel on the 5003V has four BNCs (I think) vs. the 2 BNCs (for test/align) on the 5003, 5002, and 5001. Thanks for the link to the JL Cooper box. Midiman / M-audio had a box that did this along with MIDI routing, but I bought some on closeout for cheap--and haven't even fired them up. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting Scott Phillips : > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if I > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If this is > the one I'll try to help: > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR-5003 (is > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > operating tips. > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to > operation. > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > Thanks, > Matt Montoro > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning video > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 track > machine with a center time code track. > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. However, I > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track heads > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you are > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I understand > your particular use context. > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of the > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types of > music... > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the list. > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a pretty > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital recorders > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels to the > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other causes > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need more > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is not > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If your MIDI > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output SMPTE > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you will > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) and a > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, I'm > not sure off hand. > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help more. > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've seen, > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > ________________________________ > > From: toro [mailto:toro@...] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > England who wants > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in > mind when I > scanned the manual. > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups > (although > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > than just the > digest). > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each > new member > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > worked on the > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people > who are > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > business of > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > permitted in the > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't > know. > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > purpose as a > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as > there are > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > and if you > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > deal with it, > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > everyone to feel > comfortable and relaxed here. > > OK? > > You can reach me at arclists@... or > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > lists. > > I don't have the time. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*htt > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #308 From: OtherWorld Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Cary Thanks for the info. That’s probably enough to dissuade me from buying a newer machine. It would be tough to find someone outside of N-Town to work on a machine with surface mount chips. Dankeschon!! Scott On 8/9/04 10:37 AM, "ladewd" wrote: Which machines have surface mount chips and which don't?? Scott Wilson, Since no one accurately answered you and got into the MRL discussion instead, I'll chime in here to answer you. The later APR24 and 5003V machines had surface mount chips. I would estimate probably those manufactured after '94 used the SMT chips. I still have most of the documentation and could look up serial numbers for you, but right now I'm on crutches and can't get out to the garage to get to my manuals. There is functionally no difference in the design, except for the use of different I/O chips and a small change in signal path. The I/O chips used on the SMT boards were SSM2041 and 2042 chips which I have seen fail more often than the original hybrids used on the thru hole machines. The SSM chips were the only thru hole ICs on the card. These chips are available from Analog Devices but to purchase them directly from the manufacturer, you have to buy more than you'll probably ever need. In a pinch, Analog Devices will send you 3 samples of each if you ask, but you have to tell them you're designing something and you will use the chips in your design. Sony doesn't stock the chips anymore, and finding them individually isn't the easiest thing in the world. For this reason alone, I usually recommend the non-SMT machines. I have never seen the original hybrids fail. There is one advantage to the SMT machines cards. That is, less TC crosstalk in the audio. The APR series uses a summing bus to distribute alignment tones and timecode to all of the channels. There was a TC crosstalk problem with the thru hole APR Channel cards. The crosstalk was well below the tape noise, but could be heard if you turned the monitors up to a ridiculous level. Of course, customers complained, since everyone cranks up their machine to the max when they get it (well not everyone, but you get the idea). There was a modification done to the standard through hole channel cards to rreduce the crosstalk, but it was extrememly messy, difficult, and not really worth doing. We only did the modification on a as-needed basis. If you don't use time code, this is a non- issue. I would still recommend getting the through hole version. Screw the modification, since the xtalk was negligable. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Hi Everyone > > Thanks again for all the great information! > > Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have surface > mount chips and which don’t?? This would be a decisive factor over which > machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest who could > handle this? > > Thanks again!! > > Scott Wilson > OtherWorld > Milwaukee WI USA Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #309 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:31 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming richardlhess Offline Send Email You may not see the dirt, but get a Q-tip with 99% denatured alcohol and start rubbing until the Q-tip comes clean off everything. Don't use it on the pinch roller--use Formula 409 wipes (and be careful not to let anything drip into the capstan bearings). The lack of erasure depth that you describe is unthinkable in a clean, properly-running APR with it's dual-gap ferrite Woelke erase heads! If the cleaning doesn't help, then someone who has been around one of these before should look at it. If you're aligned for 250nWb/m you can usually let the meter go into the red. You'll need to learn. It's different from digital. Remember there is a 10dB lag in the VU meter from the peak meter for much of what we record, can be a lot more for percussion, for example. Machine alignment could be all over the place. You can keep the original alignment, remove the headblock, switch it to another stack of the same type in the DIP switch and Cary published the load-the-default settings here. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting toro : > The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like > the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was > not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the > beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the > high input levels?). > To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not > cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell > me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training > purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any > of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. > The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same > track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute > to the lack of a sync). > Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording > over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - > I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of > the previous recorded track. > The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning > of the recording). > Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit > the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? > Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email > - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! > Matt > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! > > Sorry. > > > > It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more > > information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it > > be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape > > speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides > > absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? > > > > What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed > > constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape > > slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? > > > > I'll try to help you out on this. > > > > I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. > > The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, > > you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but > > availability is a problem. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if > > I > > > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > > > > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If > > this is > > > the one I'll try to help: > > > > > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA > > area and > > > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- > > 5003 (is > > > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > > > operating tips. > > > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are > > dedicated to > > > operation. > > > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > > > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For > > the > > > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I > > would > > > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track > > (which > > > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > > > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > > > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good > > idea > > > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > > > Thanks, > > > Matt Montoro > > > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > > > > > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning > > video > > > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 > > track > > > machine with a center time code track. > > > > > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. > > However, I > > > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track > > heads > > > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you > > are > > > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > > > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I > > understand > > > your particular use context. > > > > > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of > > the > > > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types > > of > > > music... > > > > > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the > > list. > > > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > > > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a > > pretty > > > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > > > > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital > > recorders > > > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels > > to the > > > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other > > causes > > > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need > > more > > > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > > > > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is > > not > > > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If > > your MIDI > > > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output > > SMPTE > > > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you > > will > > > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) > > and a > > > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > > > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > > > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, > > I'm > > > not sure off hand. > > > > > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help > > more. > > > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've > > seen, > > > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > > > > > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > > > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. > > I was > > > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > > > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you > > guys > > > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows > > more as > > > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR > > legacy. > > > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of > > helping) > > > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > > > England who wants > > > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had > > in > > > mind when I > > > scanned the manual. > > > > > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo > > groups > > > (although > > > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > > > than just the > > > digest). > > > > > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. > > Each > > > new member > > > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > > > > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > > > worked on the > > > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for > > people > > > who are > > > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time > > since > > > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > > > > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > > > business of > > > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > > > > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > > > > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > > > permitted in the > > > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > > > > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I > > don't > > > know. > > > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > > > purpose as a > > > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > > > > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's > > post. > > > > > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift > > off as > > > there are > > > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > > > and if you > > > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > > > deal with it, > > > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > > > everyone to feel > > > comfortable and relaxed here. > > > > > > OK? > > > > > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > > > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > > > > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > > > lists. > > > > > > I don't have the time. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > > 76/ > > > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* > > htt > > > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > > > > > > M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=group > > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #310 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:44 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Matt, Sounds like either a tape tension problem (too little), A head wrap adjustment error, or worn heads. True, the erase could be defective, but from your description it kind of sounds like tape/head contact issues. Be warned, head mechanical adjustments are no small thing... and if it came from a school there is a good chance someone has been tweaking where they shouldn't. Plenty of advise can be had here on this, but without experience and some specialized tools it can be difficult to do properly. ..Record levels... occasional runs briefly into the red are OK if the alignment is good. Sorry, it isn't as easy as a digital machine, where it is 'cram in everything until it just hits '0'. It is related to program material type and content. Better to run levels conservatively until you gain experience by listening to the results. Analog recorders change their 'sound' as you hit them harder, and before they distort, so it is a personal choice how you want the recorder to color (or enhance, depending on your feelings) the final recording. From: toro [mailto:toro@...] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the high input levels?). To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute to the lack of a sync). Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of the previous recorded track. The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning of the recording). Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! Matt Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! Sorry. It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? I'll try to help you out on this. I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but availability is a problem. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if I > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If this is > the one I'll try to help: > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA area and > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- 5003 (is > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > operating tips. > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are dedicated to > operation. > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For the > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I would > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track (which > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good idea > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > Thanks, > Matt Montoro > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning video > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 track > machine with a center time code track. > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. However, I > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track heads > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you are > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I understand > your particular use context. > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of the > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types of > music... > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the list. > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a pretty > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital recorders > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels to the > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other causes > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need more > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is not > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If your MIDI > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output SMPTE > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you will > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) and a > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, I'm > not sure off hand. > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help more. > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've seen, > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > ________________________________ > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. I was > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you guys > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows more as > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR legacy. > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of helping) > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > England who wants > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had in > mind when I > scanned the manual. > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo groups > (although > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > than just the > digest). > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. Each > new member > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > worked on the > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for people > who are > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time since > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > business of > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > permitted in the > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I don't > know. > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > purpose as a > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's post. > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift off as > there are > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > and if you > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > deal with it, > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > everyone to feel > comfortable and relaxed here. > > OK? > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > lists. > > I don't have the time. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* htt > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #311 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:51 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree about the cleaning. If those heads and guides aren't clean enough to be surgically implanted in you, they aren't clean enough. Richard's comments on the erase is also correct... either the erase head is dirty, mechanically misaligned, or has electronic problems. I can't say I've run into problems with APR erase before... any one else? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming You may not see the dirt, but get a Q-tip with 99% denatured alcohol and start rubbing until the Q-tip comes clean off everything. Don't use it on the pinch roller--use Formula 409 wipes (and be careful not to let anything drip into the capstan bearings). The lack of erasure depth that you describe is unthinkable in a clean, properly-running APR with it's dual-gap ferrite Woelke erase heads! If the cleaning doesn't help, then someone who has been around one of these before should look at it. If you're aligned for 250nWb/m you can usually let the meter go into the red. You'll need to learn. It's different from digital. Remember there is a 10dB lag in the VU meter from the peak meter for much of what we record, can be a lot more for percussion, for example. Machine alignment could be all over the place. You can keep the original alignment, remove the headblock, switch it to another stack of the same type in the DIP switch and Cary published the load-the-default settings here. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting toro : > The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like > the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was > not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the > beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the > high input levels?). > To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not > cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell > me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training > purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any > of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. > The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same > track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute > to the lack of a sync). > Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording > over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - > I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of > the previous recorded track. > The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning > of the recording). > Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit > the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? > Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email > - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! > Matt > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! > > Sorry. > > > > It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more > > information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it > > be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape > > speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides > > absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? > > > > What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed > > constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape > > slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? > > > > I'll try to help you out on this. > > > > I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. > > The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, > > you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but > > availability is a problem. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if > > I > > > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > > > > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If > > this is > > > the one I'll try to help: > > > > > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA > > area and > > > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- > > 5003 (is > > > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > > > operating tips. > > > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are > > dedicated to > > > operation. > > > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > > > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For > > the > > > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I > > would > > > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track > > (which > > > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > > > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > > > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good > > idea > > > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > > > Thanks, > > > Matt Montoro > > > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > > > > > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning > > video > > > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 > > track > > > machine with a center time code track. > > > > > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. > > However, I > > > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track > > heads > > > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you > > are > > > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > > > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I > > understand > > > your particular use context. > > > > > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of > > the > > > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types > > of > > > music... > > > > > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the > > list. > > > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > > > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a > > pretty > > > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > > > > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital > > recorders > > > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels > > to the > > > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other > > causes > > > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need > > more > > > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > > > > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is > > not > > > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If > > your MIDI > > > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output > > SMPTE > > > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you > > will > > > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) > > and a > > > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > > > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > > > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, > > I'm > > > not sure off hand. > > > > > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help > > more. > > > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've > > seen, > > > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > > > > > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > > > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. > > I was > > > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > > > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you > > guys > > > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows > > more as > > > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR > > legacy. > > > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of > > helping) > > > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > > > England who wants > > > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had > > in > > > mind when I > > > scanned the manual. > > > > > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo > > groups > > > (although > > > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > > > than just the > > > digest). > > > > > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. > > Each > > > new member > > > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > > > > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > > > worked on the > > > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for > > people > > > who are > > > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time > > since > > > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > > > > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > > > business of > > > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > > > > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > > > > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > > > permitted in the > > > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > > > > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I > > don't > > > know. > > > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > > > purpose as a > > > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > > > > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's > > post. > > > > > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift > > off as > > > there are > > > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > > > and if you > > > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > > > deal with it, > > > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > > > everyone to feel > > > comfortable and relaxed here. > > > > > > OK? > > > > > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > > > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > > > > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > > > lists. > > > > > > I don't have the time. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > > 76/ > > > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* > > htt > > > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > > > > > > M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=group > > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #312 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 1:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I just stopped to think about this....Matt is a digital kind of guy. Matt, do you understand that with an analog machine erase isn't normally quite complete? The APR has a pretty good erase, but in a single erase pass of a loud 1khz tone you can't expect it to be erased to inaudible at high volume levels. A digital recorder, it goes completely away. It occurred to me you might not have a valid point of reference if this is your first run into analog recorders..... From: Scott Phillips [mailto:scottp@...] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:52 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming I agree about the cleaning. If those heads and guides aren't clean enough to be surgically implanted in you, they aren't clean enough. Richard's comments on the erase is also correct... either the erase head is dirty, mechanically misaligned, or has electronic problems. I can't say I've run into problems with APR erase before... any one else? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming You may not see the dirt, but get a Q-tip with 99% denatured alcohol and start rubbing until the Q-tip comes clean off everything. Don't use it on the pinch roller--use Formula 409 wipes (and be careful not to let anything drip into the capstan bearings). The lack of erasure depth that you describe is unthinkable in a clean, properly-running APR with it's dual-gap ferrite Woelke erase heads! If the cleaning doesn't help, then someone who has been around one of these before should look at it. If you're aligned for 250nWb/m you can usually let the meter go into the red. You'll need to learn. It's different from digital. Remember there is a 10dB lag in the VU meter from the peak meter for much of what we record, can be a lot more for percussion, for example. Machine alignment could be all over the place. You can keep the original alignment, remove the headblock, switch it to another stack of the same type in the DIP switch and Cary published the load-the-default settings here. Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting toro : > The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like > the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was > not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the > beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the > high input levels?). > To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not > cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell > me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training > purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any > of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. > The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same > track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute > to the lack of a sync). > Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording > over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - > I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of > the previous recorded track. > The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning > of the recording). > Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit > the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? > Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email > - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! > Matt > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I missed that his first post did have specific questions! > > Sorry. > > > > It is difficult to describe a sound, but I also need more > > information. Skipping? could you be describing dropouts? Could it > > be a tape wrap problem (angle of tape to head contact)? Is it tape > > speed related? What condition is the tape in? Are all your guides > > absolutely clean and not gunked up from playing a bad tape? > > > > What is a better description of the "lagging" Is the speed > > constant? Is it a delay when switching from PLAY to RR to FF? Tape > > slow to move? I need more. What (on the machine) is lagging? > > > > I'll try to help you out on this. > > > > I personally use Quantegy 456, because I have some lying around. > > The machine can run all the modern tapes. For the best Quantegy, > > you can run GP9. I've tried EMTEC tape and liked that also, but > > availability is a problem. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > Somehow I for one have missed your posts to the list. I'll help if > > I > > > can. Wait one while I look back in the posts. > > > > > > OK, I missed this one, but it is the only one I found, sorry. If > > this is > > > the one I'll try to help: > > > > > > Hi there - My name is Matt Montoro, I run a studio in the NOVA > > area and > > > I am pretty new to the APR reel-to-reel game. I aquired an APR- > > 5003 (is > > > it a V if it has 3 tracks) in very good shape and would love some > > > operating tips. > > > I own the manual - however, out of 7 million pages, two are > > dedicated to > > > operation. > > > On a test run I got some noise on playback - almost like miniscule > > > skipping (possibly maxing out the tracks?) and some tape lag. For > > the > > > test I did not synch to anything so the lag is understandable. I > > would > > > appreciate any advice - best ips to run for a mastering 2 track > > (which > > > is what I am usind this for) - best tape to use, best settings, and > > > maybe a tech guy in the NOVA/DC area. > > > Also, the Time Code is inputted via XLR - does anyone have a good > > idea > > > to go from MIDI synch to XLR? > > > Thanks, > > > Matt Montoro > > > www.thirdstreammusic.com > > > > > > > > > 1.) 'V' designation meant some additional capabilities concerning > > video > > > frame sync. An APR-5002 is a two track machine. An APR-5003 is a 2 > > track > > > machine with a center time code track. > > > > > > 2.) I am assuming you have a 1/4" machine if it is a 5003. > > However, I > > > need to ask, as it could have been refitted with 1/2" two track > > heads > > > for mastering use. Is it 1/4" or 1/2" ? Makes a difference if you > > are > > > asking for recommendations on tape speed for mastering use. A 1/2" > > > machine is to be preferred for mastering use, at least as I > > understand > > > your particular use context. > > > > > > 3.) What type of music will you be recording? Characteristics of > > the > > > various tape speeds may lend themselves better to particular types > > of > > > music... > > > > > > 4.) I'd say, for tape type, put it up for some discussion on the > > list. > > > I personally dislike Ampex / Quantigy for slitting and noise > > > characteristics, although for R&R it has a place. Tape type is a > > pretty > > > personal decision. Members, opinions? > > > > > > 5.) There shouldn't be 'skipping' . If you are used to digital > > recorders > > > only (I have to ask, sorry) and are used to running record levels > > to the > > > very max, be advised analog doesn't work that way at all. Other > > causes > > > might be anything from electronic bias problems on down. I'd need > > more > > > information, or a better description to be more helpful. > > > > > > 6.) Midi Sync to XLR... I presume you mean midi time code. This is > > not > > > the same as SMPTE time code, which is what the APR expects. If > > your MIDI > > > sequencer software/hardware does not have the capability to output > > SMPTE > > > (If it does, fine, then just cable adapters are needed), then you > > will > > > need an external converter to do this. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) > > and a > > > number of other manufacturers make such devices. JL Cooper makes a > > > device called the PPS-2 for around $160 street price that is a > > > stand-alone converter. You might still have to use cable adapters, > > I'm > > > not sure off hand. > > > > > > Hope this helps. If you can supply more data perhaps we can help > > more. > > > What tape type and speed to use is open to opinion, and as you've > > seen, > > > there is frequent disagreement on it, but I'm game. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: toro [mailto:toro@i...] > > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:00 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] On and off-topic / flaming > > > > > > > > > I am an APR owner and I have submitted several posts asking for > > > operational advice from you "experts" with absolutely no replies. > > I was > > > never asked to write any note explaining why I wanted to join this > > > group, although I would have been happy to. It seems that all you > > guys > > > want to do is try to prove each other wrong or prove who knows > > more as > > > opposed to maybe helping some newer engineers carry on the APR > > legacy. > > > If this is what the forum was designed for (bragging instead of > > helping) > > > maybe it should be clearer when new members sign up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a hard balance on a list. Allison is an APR owner in > > > England who wants > > > to learn more about the machine and one of the people I had > > in > > > mind when I > > > scanned the manual. > > > > > > Digest is another way of receiving the emails from Yahoo > > groups > > > (although > > > it helps to actually use the thread title in the reply rather > > > than just the > > > digest). > > > > > > I don't think anyone is stealing anything from this group. > > Each > > > new member > > > has to write me a note as to why they want to join. > > > > > > I know we have a very important core group here who actually > > > worked on the > > > APR design, but I hope that we can cut a little slack for > > people > > > who are > > > just experiencing the joys of the APR for the first time > > since > > > reasonable-cost pre-owned machines have become available. > > > > > > It was my first APR that has helped lead me into this nutty > > > business of > > > tape restoration that I'm now going to be doing full-time. > > > > > > Anyway, let's all calm down and try and stay on topic. > > > > > > We should probably talk about how far off-topic should be > > > permitted in the > > > list. I know I've promised this to be a low-volume list. > > > > > > Perhaps we should create another list for general chat? I > > don't > > > know. > > > There's already the backroom list that was created for that > > > purpose as a > > > sidelight to the Ampex and Studer lists. > > > > > > I do think that Allison was responding to Rick@Allegro's > > post. > > > > > > So let's try and stay on topic of the APRs, and not drift > > off as > > > there are > > > many general lists, but let's also cut some new members slack > > > and if you > > > think a post is off topic, please send me a message and I'll > > > deal with it, > > > because I don't want flaming on this list either. I'd like > > > everyone to feel > > > comfortable and relaxed here. > > > > > > OK? > > > > > > You can reach me at arclists@r... or > > > owner-sony_apr@yahoogroups.com (I think). > > > > > > I don't want to have to moderate posts like Ampex and Studer > > > lists. > > > > > > I don't have the time. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > click here > > > > > > 76/ > > > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092150023/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/* > > htt > > > p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> > > > > > > > M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=group > > > s/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=403443734> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #313 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 2:35 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming allegrosound Offline Send Email a client had a similar problem with an Otari MTR-15, which was cured by following AllegroRule#2: Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum sound quality; the side benefit being it cures a lot of unexplained problems. While the machine is warming up, clean the entire tape path, paying particular attention to the ceramic sensor between the supply reel and headstack that contacts the back of the tape; if there's any debris of any kind on this part, especially from splices and back-coated tape, it will cause BIG problems. AllegroRule#42: Avoid back-coated tape whenever possible. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 Toro wrote: The sound I experienced was more of an stuttered attenuation (somewhat like the sound of a damaged or creased cassette tape? although the tape I used was not damaged and does not appear to be creased). And it only occured at the beginning of the recording (almost as if the machine was adjusting to the high input levels?). To be honest, because of my inexperience with this equipment - I have not cleaned or calibrated the machine at all (which I'm sure all of you will tell me to do immediately), however, The machine was used in a school for training purposes so, it does appear to be in great shape. - nothing visible on any of the guides. I did use Quantegy 499 Gold for the first test. The lag was only noticeable when compared to a digital recording of the same track (i.e. very minute time laq throughout the song - which I did attribute to the lack of a sync). Finally a problem that may shed some light on all of this - when recording over a track already recorded - the erase heads do not seem to do their job - I was forced to only record on the blank parts of the tape due to bleeding of the previous recorded track. The machine itself sounded great (save for the attenuation at the beginning of the recording). Also - how much do you guys push the VU meter - are you careful not to hit the red at all - or do you and how much can you push the envelope? Thanks for the responses - sorry if I sounded perturbed on my previous email - but to a digital guy these analog machines can wear you thin! Matt Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #314 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 3:58 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming allegrosound Offline Send Email AllegroSound recommends the proper use of a table-top (not hand-held) industrial degauser designed for 2" tape; if possible, mod the tape machine to allow turning off the current to the erase head, as the erase head will add noise. Rewind and degause new tape before use. *Never degause anything unless you know exactly what you're doing; call for more info. Best regards, Rick@... tel.818.377.5264 Scott Phillips wrote: I just stopped to think about this....Matt is a digital kind of guy. Matt, do you understand that with an analog machine erase isn't normally quite complete? The APR has a pretty good erase, but in a single erase pass of a loud 1khz tone you can't expect it to be erased to inaudible at high volume levels. A digital recorder, it goes completely away. It occurred to me you might not have a valid point of reference if this is your first run into analog recorders..... Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #315 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 4:10 pm Subject: Re: Which APR-24s have SMT chips? ladewd Offline Send Email > Thanks for the info. That¹s probably enough to dissuade me from buying a > newer machine. The components that usually fail are the I/O ICs and the bias and erase driver transistors. All these are thru hole devices and can be replaced by anyone. The failure is just the idiosyncrasy of the boards and are easy to fix, but result in added bills and down time. I'm not discouraging you from purchasing a SMT machine, they're relatively easy to work on for SMTs, its just I personally look for a slightly older machine. One which is new, yet doesn;t have the SMTs. Like SS described, the year and quarter are on the back on the serial number tag. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > Cary > > Thanks for the info. That¹s probably enough to dissuade me from buying a > newer machine. It would be tough to find someone outside of N- Town to work > on a machine with surface mount chips. > > Dankeschon!! > > Scott > > > > On 8/9/04 10:37 AM, "ladewd" wrote: > > > Which machines have surface mount chips and which don't?? > > > > > > Scott Wilson, > > > > Since no one accurately answered you and got into the MRL discussion > > instead, I'll chime in here to answer you. The later APR24 and > > 5003V machines had surface mount chips. I would estimate probably > > those manufactured after '94 used the SMT chips. I still have most > > of the documentation and could look up serial numbers for you, but > > right now I'm on crutches and can't get out to the garage to get to > > my manuals. There is functionally no difference in the design, > > except for the use of different I/O chips and a small change in > > signal path. > > > > The I/O chips used on the SMT boards were SSM2041 and 2042 chips > > which I have seen fail more often than the original hybrids used on > > the thru hole machines. The SSM chips were the only thru hole ICs on > > the card. These chips are available from Analog Devices but to > > purchase them directly from the manufacturer, you have to buy more > > than you'll probably ever need. In a pinch, Analog Devices will > > send you 3 samples of each if you ask, but you have to tell them > > you're designing something and you will use the chips in your > > design. Sony doesn't stock the chips anymore, and finding them > > individually isn't the easiest thing in the world. For this reason > > alone, I usually recommend the non-SMT machines. I have never seen > > the original hybrids fail. > > > > There is one advantage to the SMT machines cards. That is, less TC > > crosstalk in the audio. The APR series uses a summing bus to > > distribute alignment tones and timecode to all of the channels. > > There was a TC crosstalk problem with the thru hole APR Channel > > cards. The crosstalk was well below the tape noise, but could be > > heard if you turned the monitors up to a ridiculous level. Of > > course, customers complained, since everyone cranks up their machine > > to the max when they get it (well not everyone, but you get the > > idea). There was a modification done to the standard through hole > > channel cards to rreduce the crosstalk, but it was extrememly messy, > > difficult, and not really worth doing. We only did the modification > > on a as-needed basis. If you don't use time code, this is a non- > > issue. > > > > I would still recommend getting the through hole version. Screw the > > modification, since the xtalk was negligable. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, OtherWorld wrote: > >> > Hi Everyone > >> > > >> > Thanks again for all the great information! > >> > > >> > Yet another question regarding the APR-24. Which machines have > > surface > >> > mount chips and which don¹t?? This would be a decisive factor > > over which > >> > machine to buy. Or- does anyone know a good tech in the midwest > > who could > >> > handle this? > >> > > >> > Thanks again!! > >> > > >> > Scott Wilson > >> > OtherWorld > >> > Milwaukee WI USA > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > ps/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092152310/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/*http:/ /store.ya > > hoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2.html> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > . > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #316 From: toro Date: Mon Aug 9, 2004 5:11 pm Subject: Re: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming toro3stream Offline Send Email Now, that's what I call a forum! I have received some great advice from you guys, especially Rick at Allegro Sound who I called. I will try all of the suggestions today and let you know how it turned out. Unfortunately, all of my analog knowledge is book learned so I do not yet have any applied knowledge of this machine -- which I hopefully will soon have. As far as the erase -- I understand that analogs do not totally erase - but I knda assumed (breaking Allegro rule #3) that the erase would be sufficient enough on a 2-track to record over. But, that is the least of my concerns of operation. Thanks again, Matt Montoro ThirdStreamMusic > AllegroSound recommends the proper > use of a table-top (not hand-held) > industrial degauser designed for 2" tape; > if possible, mod the tape machine to allow > turning off the current to the erase head, > as the erase head will add noise. > Rewind and degause new tape before use. > *Never degause anything unless you know > exactly what you're doing; call for more info. > Best regards, > Rick@... > tel.818.377.5264 > > Scott Phillips wrote: > I just stopped to think about this....Matt is a digital kind of guy. Matt, do you understand that with an analog machine erase isn't normally quite complete? The APR has a pretty good erase, but in a single erase pass of a loud 1khz tone you can't expect it to be erased to inaudible at high volume levels. A digital recorder, it goes completely away. It occurred to me you might not have a valid point of reference if this is your first run into analog recorders..... > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #317 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:29 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, toro wrote: > Matt, I've given some thought to your problem. Scott Phillips suggested it may be low tape tension and Scott at Allegro mentioned, tape to head contact. Poor tension = poor tape to head contact and sluggish transport operation. I believe that accurately describes your original description. It sounds like you have as bad reel tach on the supply motor. Although a bad tach on either reel will give you sluggish operation, I feel its the supply side because of the audio problems you're having. If you are not comfortable in making the necessary repairs and adjustments to the machine, find someone who can. Essentially you need to have someone with an oscilloscope take a look at the two tach signals from the supply reel motor. It may as simple as reposistioning the sensors, but there could be a blown IC on the tach board. Wish you luck with it. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #318 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:29 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Pretty much my thoughts as well from the description. If one single fault could cause all your problems at once, that would be it. Without actually seeing it and/or using a tentelometer on the recorder, best guess I have too. Could be multiple faults as well, but without checking it out it is still a guess... :>) We are all around if we can help you walk through anything... just ask. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:29 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, toro wrote: > Matt, I've given some thought to your problem. Scott Phillips suggested it may be low tape tension and Scott at Allegro mentioned, tape to head contact. Poor tension = poor tape to head contact and sluggish transport operation. I believe that accurately describes your original description. It sounds like you have as bad reel tach on the supply motor. Although a bad tach on either reel will give you sluggish operation, I feel its the supply side because of the audio problems you're having. If you are not comfortable in making the necessary repairs and adjustments to the machine, find someone who can. Essentially you need to have someone with an oscilloscope take a look at the two tach signals from the supply reel motor. It may as simple as reposistioning the sensors, but there could be a blown IC on the tach board. Wish you luck with it. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #319 From: "bae_steve" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:08 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming bae_steve Offline Send Email I apologize for over-reacting to your post. It's just that in the middle of an analog tape -v- heads discussion, I didn't see the relevance of throwing in someones friends preference for obsolete digital audio. I also apologize for not knowing how large and uninformed this forum has become. P.S. Although the transort and audio on the Sony APR series machines are microprocessor controlled, there are no "Digital APR's": They are in fact, Analog Recorders. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Alison Kristina Hinckley" wrote: > Forgive me for causing such a stir, it was definately not my > intention.Digital APR's have been discused in some detail in previous > messages,so I didn't realise that 'digital' was a dirty word on this > forum. I was mearly using digital for illustrative purposes as it is > what I know best,like one or two other members here. > > As Richard points out, I was indeed replying to a comment made by > Rick from Allegrosound who brought to our attention the fact that > it's our ears that are at the end of the music chain, and that our > ears do not always have a flat frequency response. > > I first set eyes on an APR5003V back in the mid 80's and asked the > price. Needless to say, there was no way I could have ever afforded > one. Dreams can however come true and thanks to ebay, my APR5003 (Sn > 21115 build 88A) takes pride of place ontop of my other equipment, > and in daily use. > > Again, sorry for any upset I have caused. > > Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #320 From: "bae_steve" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:14 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming bae_steve Offline Send Email Most likely, if tach related, it's the old "tape caught under the reel and pulled out, bending the HEF out of alignment" syndrome. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Pretty much my thoughts as well from the description. If one single > fault could cause all your problems at once, that would be it. Without > actually seeing it and/or using a tentelometer on the recorder, best > guess I have too. Could be multiple faults as well, but without checking > it out it is still a guess... :>) We are all around if we can help you > walk through anything... just ask. > > ________________________________ > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:29 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, toro wrote: > > > Matt, > > I've given some thought to your problem. Scott Phillips suggested > it may be low tape tension and Scott at Allegro mentioned, tape to > head contact. Poor tension = poor tape to head contact and sluggish > transport operation. I believe that accurately describes your > original description. > > It sounds like you have as bad reel tach on the supply motor. > Although a bad tach on either reel will give you sluggish > operation, I feel its the supply side because of the audio problems > you're having. If you are not comfortable in making the necessary > repairs and adjustments to the machine, find someone who can. > Essentially you need to have someone with an oscilloscope take a > look at the two tach signals from the supply reel motor. It may as > simple as reposistioning the sensors, but there could be a blown IC > on the tach board. > > Wish you luck with it. > > Cary > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092274197/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/*h tt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=254000262> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #321 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:22 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ladewd Offline Send Email Again, sorry for any upset I have caused. Alison, No problems here. I actually use a combination of digital and analog. Each has their own place in the great scheme of things. Its the musical content not the tools that are the most important in any recording (unless you're using a cassette deck) ;-) Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Alison Kristina Hinckley" wrote: > Forgive me for causing such a stir, it was definately not my > intention.Digital APR's have been discused in some detail in previous > messages,so I didn't realise that 'digital' was a dirty word on this > forum. I was mearly using digital for illustrative purposes as it is > what I know best,like one or two other members here. > > As Richard points out, I was indeed replying to a comment made by > Rick from Allegrosound who brought to our attention the fact that > it's our ears that are at the end of the music chain, and that our > ears do not always have a flat frequency response. > > I first set eyes on an APR5003V back in the mid 80's and asked the > price. Needless to say, there was no way I could have ever afforded > one. Dreams can however come true and thanks to ebay, my APR5003 (Sn > 21115 build 88A) takes pride of place ontop of my other equipment, > and in daily use. > > Again, sorry for any upset I have caused. > > Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #322 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:24 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming ladewd Offline Send Email Yep, thats the most common cause, but I've seen the Opamps on the tach board fail occationally also. Much less common. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > Most likely, if tach related, it's the old "tape caught under the > reel and pulled out, bending the HEF out of alignment" syndrome. > > SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Pretty much my thoughts as well from the description. If one single > > fault could cause all your problems at once, that would be it. > Without > > actually seeing it and/or using a tentelometer on the recorder, best > > guess I have too. Could be multiple faults as well, but without > checking > > it out it is still a guess... :>) We are all around if we can help > you > > walk through anything... just ask. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@y...] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:29 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, toro wrote: > > > > > Matt, > > > > I've given some thought to your problem. Scott Phillips suggested > > it may be low tape tension and Scott at Allegro mentioned, tape to > > head contact. Poor tension = poor tape to head contact and > sluggish > > transport operation. I believe that accurately describes your > > original description. > > > > It sounds like you have as bad reel tach on the supply motor. > > Although a bad tach on either reel will give you sluggish > > operation, I feel its the supply side because of the audio > problems > > you're having. If you are not comfortable in making the necessary > > repairs and adjustments to the machine, find someone who can. > > Essentially you need to have someone with an oscilloscope take a > > look at the two tach signals from the supply reel motor. It may as > > simple as reposistioning the sensors, but there could be a blown IC > > on the tach board. > > > > Wish you luck with it. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > 6/ > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092274197/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* h > tt > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > html> > > > > M=288055.5260187.6368768.2127756/D=group > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=254000262> > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #323 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:27 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Steve, Thanks for the HEF info. I've never done that with getting tape caught under the reel table, but I think when it happens (not very often) I'm very gentle as I'm usually interested in salvaging the tape. It's always one of those Oh #@$%! moments . Yes, this forum is larger than I expected...it's not just me and the Sony team anymore . We've got 40 members which is respectable for a special-interest list. I think when people say "Digital APRs" they're thinking of what are they 3302 3304? Could that be? Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #324 From: "Rick@..." Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:47 pm Subject: Re: Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs allegrosound Offline Send Email Richard: The attached pics may interest your group. Best regards, Rick@... audio in the service of music Est.1973, Los Angeles CA tel.818.377.5264 "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hi, Steve, Thanks for the HEF info. I've never done that with getting tape caught under the reel table, but I think when it happens (not very often) I'm very gentle as I'm usually interested in salvaging the tape. It's always one of those Oh #@$%! moments . Yes, this forum is larger than I expected...it's not just me and the Sony team anymore . We've got 40 members which is respectable for a special-interest list. I think when people say "Digital APRs" they're thinking of what are they 3302 3304? Could that be? Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #325 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:55 pm Subject: RE: Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I'm sure that is what they mean by digital APR's. The resemblance is unmistakable, along with similar transports. I have seen the HEF sensor problem as well, mostly from radio stations that use small reels and are in a hurry when they use the deck. I've never done it myself. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs Hi, Steve, Thanks for the HEF info. I've never done that with getting tape caught under the reel table, but I think when it happens (not very often) I'm very gentle as I'm usually interested in salvaging the tape. It's always one of those Oh #@$%! moments . Yes, this forum is larger than I expected...it's not just me and the Sony team anymore . We've got 40 members which is respectable for a special-interest list. I think when people say "Digital APRs" they're thinking of what are they 3302 3304? Could that be? Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #326 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:33 pm Subject: Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs ladewd Offline Send Email I still think one phase of the tach is missing (maybe the HES is just a little bent?). When both tach signals are missing, the reel motor turns with no tape in the photocell. When one phase is missing the symptoms are more subtle and only appear when you're moving tape. At least that's how I remember it. All Sony tape machines use this same HES circuit and I have seen a few blown tach buffers in my time. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Richard, I'm sure that is what they mean by digital APR's. The > resemblance is unmistakable, along with similar transports. > > I have seen the HEF sensor problem as well, mostly from radio stations > that use small reels and are in a hurry when they use the deck. I've > never done it myself. > > ________________________________ > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: On and off-topic / flaming / HEFs > > > Hi, Steve, > > Thanks for the HEF info. I've never done that with getting tape caught > under the reel table, but I think when it happens (not very often) I'm > very > gentle as I'm usually interested in salvaging the tape. It's always one > of > those Oh #@$%! moments . > > Yes, this forum is larger than I expected...it's not just me and the > Sony > team anymore . We've got 40 members which is respectable for a > special-interest list. > > I think when people say "Digital APRs" they're thinking of what are they > > 3302 3304? Could that be? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092331924/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=657088394> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (31 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #327 From: "Bob Marriott" Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:33 pm Subject: Sony APR 3005 ferrograph2003 Offline Send Email Can anyone help ? I have a poorly Apr 3005. Problem I get spool creep in the stop position, I assume it could be the motor control? Bob marriott UK. Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #328 From: "Rick@..." Date: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:50 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Bob: I assume you mean 5003. Mine did the same thing; try working the <> thumb-wheel back and forth a few dozen times in stop mode w/o tape; if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. Best regards, Rick@AllegroSound "audio in the service of music" Est.1973, Los Angeles CA tel.818.377.5264 Bob Marriott wrote: Can anyone help ? I have a poorly Apr 3005. Problem I get spool creep in the stop position, I assume it could be the motor control? Bob marriott UK. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #329 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:10 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 ladewd Offline Send Email Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro Rule #2: AllegroRule#2: Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum sound quality; the side benefit being it cures a lot of unexplained problems. Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have no objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't worth the phone call you're soliciting. You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what you're talking about. Bob, First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel this is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on both reels. Put the machine in PLAY 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply side is centered in its travel. 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while the machine is in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan and do it again. This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you can chime in if you have any other ideas. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > Hi Bob: > I assume you mean 5003. > Mine did the same thing; > try working the <> thumb-wheel > back and forth a few dozen > times in stop mode w/o tape; > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > Best regards, > Rick@AllegroSound > "audio in the service of music" > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #330 From: "bae_steve" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:05 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 bae_steve Offline Send Email I just have a few of things: 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified local tech. 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out tape loaded. 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. SS blevinsaudio.com --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro Rule > #2: > > AllegroRule#2: > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > sound quality; the side benefit being > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have no > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > you're talking about. > > Bob, > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel this > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > side is centered in its travel. > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while the > machine is > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > and do it again. > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > Hi Bob: > > I assume you mean 5003. > > Mine did the same thing; > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > back and forth a few dozen > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > Best regards, > > Rick@AllegroSound > > "audio in the service of music" > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #331 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 3005 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Steve and Cary have tape creep covered here... I can't add a thing to it. Tape creep points back at tension problems in general, particularly with your prior description of the machine's fault symptoms keep pointing back to tension / transport adjustment problems or a minor electronic failure that has been 'adjusted' instead of repaired. As I mentioned before, equipment that has been used for 'training' in recording schools has often had every single thing 'adjusted', and not well. I had many experiences with this while representing another manufacturer, Otari, on factory warranty trips to Full Sail. Steve's point (well taken) is that once random adjustments are attempted, it is the 'chicken or the egg' syndrome, and a truly experienced tech is then needed to sort things out. IF this is the case, get an experienced tech and make SURE you tell him what was done. He'll find out anyway, but it'll cost a lot more. I realize it is easy for us to say, we are fully qualified to service these things... if we own it, fixing it costs us just the price of parts. But put bluntly, if it isn't working right, get it fixed. If it isn't stable, it's broken. Get it fixed. As for Allegro rule #2, well.... with all due respect, I believe this is just plain wrong on most modern professional equipment. Some case might be made for extended warm-up on tube equipment, but something like an APR.... no, this is basically just going to shorten the life of the florescent display and the electronics. It is fine if you are using the APR all the time, as in a radio station edit room or a 24/7 recording environment, but then you are getting useful productive life from the machine. I agree with a brief warm-up, sure. But 72 hours ? No way. The heat levels inside an APR are quite high due mostly to the compact design. This was a sales requirement for the design that the Japanese wanted. Engineering hated it. It made it difficult to build and heat/air flow was a problem. After much environmental testing with probes all over the inside of the APR I can assure you... it comes up to a stable (but high) internal temperature quickly. Alignments at normal room temperatures it should be stable to any reasonable determination within 1-1 1/2 hours of power up. Since you have to open the door to align the recorder, any (VERY, VERY) slight advantage to be gained by extended warm-up will disappear as the excess heat exits the card cage with the door open. Further, internal temperature levels will rise somewhat when the machine is in record solidly for more than 10 minutes or so. A great deal of effort was made to make the APR audio electronics stable with internal and external temperature. Nothing is perfect. Extended continuous recordings may produce some very slight bias changes. An extended warm-up will not change this, as it is the localized heating of a few components, and the prototype design was changed to equipped those parts with a sensor to help track and balance that change. The end-to-end quality of the tape stock is going to have more of an effect on the sonic quality of the recording than anything you might gain by a 72 hour warm-up. (I personally shivered in an environmental chamber with an APR for many days at -10 degrees with a 20 mile an hour wind, then raising the temperature to 104 degrees within 40 minutes, all the while measuring and listening. By the way, it rains inside and outside the APR when you do that at 80% humidity....... The recorder kept working.) In older model machines, one reason for extended warm-up times (extended in this case means 12 hours) was because some old 2 track and multitrack professional recorders had rolled aluminum metal deck plates. These had a tendency to distort with changes in internal/external temperature, thus changing the tape path. This could produce audible results and alignment instability, particularly azimuth. These machines could be badly affected by an air conditioner vent pointed at them. This is not the case with the APR recorders, along with all the rest of contemporary pro recorders, that use cast deck plates that haven't got the stresses in them that make them shift with temperature. Semi-pro machines and home machines, that is a different matter. It is a cost issue. It is easy to forget sometimes that MCI/Sony, Studer, Ampex, 3M, and other manufacturers of full out professional recorders were designing these units as industrial machines, meant to make money for the user and be used 24/7 for years on end. As a result, under certain conditions a rare home or semi pro machine may sound a bit better or be slicker to use. The compromises made for full out pro use are such that it must be very fast, reliable, and serviceable. These are nearly as important as the sonic quality to a studio, and in the long run contribute to the sonic quality because the machines stay adjusted and don't really wear out it they are kept properly serviced. From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:06 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 I just have a few of things: 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified local tech. 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out tape loaded. 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. SS blevinsaudio.com --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro Rule > #2: > > AllegroRule#2: > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > sound quality; the side benefit being > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have no > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > you're talking about. > > Bob, > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel this > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > side is centered in its travel. > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while the > machine is > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > and do it again. > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > Hi Bob: > > I assume you mean 5003. > > Mine did the same thing; > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > back and forth a few dozen > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > Best regards, > > Rick@AllegroSound > > "audio in the service of music" > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #332 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:09 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 ladewd Offline Send Email Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch sensivity is misadjusted or not working. Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your situation is different, especially yours since this is your source of income. Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I wouldn't pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of this. Somewhere down the line they may need to call in the "professionals". If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I really don't like traveling these days and will only take local service calls. If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak for you or Scott. There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. Its just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > I just have a few of things: > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified > local tech. > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > tape loaded. > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > SS > blevinsaudio.com > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > Rule > > #2: > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have > no > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > > you're talking about. > > > > Bob, > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > this > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > > side is centered in its travel. > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > the > > machine is > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > > and do it again. > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Bob: > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #333 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:55 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 3005 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree completely Cary. The costs of the repairs was assumed by the original pro users, but the folks getting the eBay machines... still, broken is broken. I understand. I work as the director of engineering for a multimedia firm these days, the better to raise kids and not be on the stupefying schedule of studio engineering or of a tech or going to hell and back as QA manager for Sony. Better to make some use of my EE degree. We have 8 studios doing audio. That said, I still support a few of my very old clients when they get in a real bind with the local techs in their areas, and I do that with a couple of overseas clients as well... all of it on weekends only. I am very well paid for field trips, but I try not to do them. Over the phone, that is a different matter. I still take a goodly number of phone calls from my old clients in Miami, and I'm happy to help for free, it if is their nickel and not too often. It wasn't long ago that someone sent me in the mail a processor card from a JH-24, begging me to fix it because no one locally had been able to. I did it for the cost of shipping and a couple of chips and 30 minutes....and a thank you. He was lucky, I had access to a local JH-24 and it was like playing a game of chess to fix it (for me). But he had been a client for 20 years, and had jumped all the local hoops he could before he called. Loyalty has got to be worth something. What goes around comes around... I'm happy to give help and advise if I know something that may be useful, learn from others about what I don't know or am wrong about. (can't stop doing that !) This is a great forum for that. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch sensivity is misadjusted or not working. Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your situation is different, especially yours since this is your source of income. Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I wouldn't pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of this. Somewhere down the line they may need to call in the "professionals". If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I really don't like traveling these days and will only take local service calls. If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak for you or Scott. There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. Its just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > I just have a few of things: > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified > local tech. > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > tape loaded. > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > SS > blevinsaudio.com > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > Rule > > #2: > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have > no > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > > you're talking about. > > > > Bob, > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > this > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > > side is centered in its travel. > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > the > > machine is > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > > and do it again. > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Bob: > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #334 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:08 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 ladewd Offline Send Email Scott, I always felt sorry for you when I saw you in the winter coat in the middle of summer in Ft. Lauderdale. Its a shame they had to put you in the testing chamber along with the APR. I also remember us walking each machine around the parking lot for "shock testing". Remember the threebond on each screw? I had to set up camp near the garbage hopper one day to investigate whether or not the mu-metal disks glued on to the APR24 fans really affected standing noise on the machine. We were concerned there was too much ambient magnetic fields inside the building. These disks which were not correctly centered on the middle of the fan caused quite a few fan failures on the APR24, resulting in heat damage to the power supply components. For the record, the 1/3dB difference in standing noise was not worth the bearing damage caused to the fans by the off-center mu-metal shields. If any APR24 users out there have these disks on their fans, TAKE THEM OFF! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Steve and Cary have tape creep covered here... I can't add a thing to > it. Tape creep points back at tension problems in general, particularly > with your prior description of the machine's fault symptoms keep > pointing back to tension / transport adjustment problems or a minor > electronic failure that has been 'adjusted' instead of repaired. As I > mentioned before, equipment that has been used for 'training' in > recording schools has often had every single thing 'adjusted', and not > well. I had many experiences with this while representing another > manufacturer, Otari, on factory warranty trips to Full Sail. Steve's > point (well taken) is that once random adjustments are attempted, it is > the 'chicken or the egg' syndrome, and a truly experienced tech is then > needed to sort things out. IF this is the case, get an experienced tech > and make SURE you tell him what was done. He'll find out anyway, but > it'll cost a lot more. I realize it is easy for us to say, we are fully > qualified to service these things... if we own it, fixing it costs us > just the price of parts. But put bluntly, if it isn't working right, get > it fixed. If it isn't stable, it's broken. Get it fixed. > > As for Allegro rule #2, well.... with all due respect, I believe this is > just plain wrong on most modern professional equipment. Some case might > be made for extended warm-up on tube equipment, but something like an > APR.... no, this is basically just going to shorten the life of the > florescent display and the electronics. It is fine if you are using the > APR all the time, as in a radio station edit room or a 24/7 recording > environment, but then you are getting useful productive life from the > machine. I agree with a brief warm-up, sure. But 72 hours ? No way. > > The heat levels inside an APR are quite high due mostly to the compact > design. This was a sales requirement for the design that the Japanese > wanted. Engineering hated it. It made it difficult to build and heat/air > flow was a problem. After much environmental testing with probes all > over the inside of the APR I can assure you... it comes up to a stable > (but high) internal temperature quickly. Alignments at normal room > temperatures it should be stable to any reasonable determination within > 1-1 1/2 hours of power up. Since you have to open the door to align the > recorder, any (VERY, VERY) slight advantage to be gained by extended > warm-up will disappear as the excess heat exits the card cage with the > door open. Further, internal temperature levels will rise somewhat when > the machine is in record solidly for more than 10 minutes or so. A great > deal of effort was made to make the APR audio electronics stable with > internal and external temperature. Nothing is perfect. Extended > continuous recordings may produce some very slight bias changes. An > extended warm-up will not change this, as it is the localized heating of > a few components, and the prototype design was changed to equipped those > parts with a sensor to help track and balance that change. > > The end-to-end quality of the tape stock is going to have more of an > effect on the sonic quality of the recording than anything you might > gain by a 72 hour warm-up. (I personally shivered in an environmental > chamber with an APR for many days at -10 degrees with a 20 mile an hour > wind, then raising the temperature to 104 degrees within 40 minutes, all > the while measuring and listening. By the way, it rains inside and > outside the APR when you do that at 80% humidity....... The recorder > kept working.) > > In older model machines, one reason for extended warm-up times (extended > in this case means 12 hours) was because some old 2 track and multitrack > professional recorders had rolled aluminum metal deck plates. These had > a tendency to distort with changes in internal/external temperature, > thus changing the tape path. This could produce audible results and > alignment instability, particularly azimuth. These machines could be > badly affected by an air conditioner vent pointed at them. This is not > the case with the APR recorders, along with all the rest of contemporary > pro recorders, that use cast deck plates that haven't got the stresses > in them that make them shift with temperature. Semi-pro machines and > home machines, that is a different matter. It is a cost issue. > > It is easy to forget sometimes that MCI/Sony, Studer, Ampex, 3M, and > other manufacturers of full out professional recorders were designing > these units as industrial machines, meant to make money for the user and > be used 24/7 for years on end. As a result, under certain conditions a > rare home or semi pro machine may sound a bit better or be slicker to > use. The compromises made for full out pro use are such that it must be > very fast, reliable, and serviceable. These are nearly as important as > the sonic quality to a studio, and in the long run contribute to the > sonic quality because the machines stay adjusted and don't really wear > out it they are kept properly serviced. > > ________________________________ > > From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:06 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > I just have a few of things: > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified > local tech. > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > tape loaded. > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > SS > blevinsaudio.com > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > Rule > > #2: > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have > no > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > > you're talking about. > > > > Bob, > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > this > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > > side is centered in its travel. > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > the > > machine is > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > > and do it again. > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Bob: > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092405987/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=103577697> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #335 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:05 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 3005 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Yep, how else can you catch pneumonia in the middle of a Florida summer. I think the sudden temperature swings were harder on me than the gear. We never had good vibration test facilities in Ft. Lauderdale. I had to run the full bore vibration testing in Japan. Amazing what it could do. I watched it turn a new APR-5002 and a new large frame MXP-3000 console to complete junk in 10 minutes of shaking. Suddenly it becomes no mystery how trucking gear like this produces problems..... and why proper shipping containers and proper mechanical design and so important. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:08 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 Scott, I always felt sorry for you when I saw you in the winter coat in the middle of summer in Ft. Lauderdale. Its a shame they had to put you in the testing chamber along with the APR. I also remember us walking each machine around the parking lot for "shock testing". Remember the threebond on each screw? I had to set up camp near the garbage hopper one day to investigate whether or not the mu-metal disks glued on to the APR24 fans really affected standing noise on the machine. We were concerned there was too much ambient magnetic fields inside the building. These disks which were not correctly centered on the middle of the fan caused quite a few fan failures on the APR24, resulting in heat damage to the power supply components. For the record, the 1/3dB difference in standing noise was not worth the bearing damage caused to the fans by the off-center mu-metal shields. If any APR24 users out there have these disks on their fans, TAKE THEM OFF! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Steve and Cary have tape creep covered here... I can't add a thing to > it. Tape creep points back at tension problems in general, particularly > with your prior description of the machine's fault symptoms keep > pointing back to tension / transport adjustment problems or a minor > electronic failure that has been 'adjusted' instead of repaired. As I > mentioned before, equipment that has been used for 'training' in > recording schools has often had every single thing 'adjusted', and not > well. I had many experiences with this while representing another > manufacturer, Otari, on factory warranty trips to Full Sail. Steve's > point (well taken) is that once random adjustments are attempted, it is > the 'chicken or the egg' syndrome, and a truly experienced tech is then > needed to sort things out. IF this is the case, get an experienced tech > and make SURE you tell him what was done. He'll find out anyway, but > it'll cost a lot more. I realize it is easy for us to say, we are fully > qualified to service these things... if we own it, fixing it costs us > just the price of parts. But put bluntly, if it isn't working right, get > it fixed. If it isn't stable, it's broken. Get it fixed. > > As for Allegro rule #2, well.... with all due respect, I believe this is > just plain wrong on most modern professional equipment. Some case might > be made for extended warm-up on tube equipment, but something like an > APR.... no, this is basically just going to shorten the life of the > florescent display and the electronics. It is fine if you are using the > APR all the time, as in a radio station edit room or a 24/7 recording > environment, but then you are getting useful productive life from the > machine. I agree with a brief warm-up, sure. But 72 hours ? No way. > > The heat levels inside an APR are quite high due mostly to the compact > design. This was a sales requirement for the design that the Japanese > wanted. Engineering hated it. It made it difficult to build and heat/air > flow was a problem. After much environmental testing with probes all > over the inside of the APR I can assure you... it comes up to a stable > (but high) internal temperature quickly. Alignments at normal room > temperatures it should be stable to any reasonable determination within > 1-1 1/2 hours of power up. Since you have to open the door to align the > recorder, any (VERY, VERY) slight advantage to be gained by extended > warm-up will disappear as the excess heat exits the card cage with the > door open. Further, internal temperature levels will rise somewhat when > the machine is in record solidly for more than 10 minutes or so. A great > deal of effort was made to make the APR audio electronics stable with > internal and external temperature. Nothing is perfect. Extended > continuous recordings may produce some very slight bias changes. An > extended warm-up will not change this, as it is the localized heating of > a few components, and the prototype design was changed to equipped those > parts with a sensor to help track and balance that change. > > The end-to-end quality of the tape stock is going to have more of an > effect on the sonic quality of the recording than anything you might > gain by a 72 hour warm-up. (I personally shivered in an environmental > chamber with an APR for many days at -10 degrees with a 20 mile an hour > wind, then raising the temperature to 104 degrees within 40 minutes, all > the while measuring and listening. By the way, it rains inside and > outside the APR when you do that at 80% humidity....... The recorder > kept working.) > > In older model machines, one reason for extended warm-up times (extended > in this case means 12 hours) was because some old 2 track and multitrack > professional recorders had rolled aluminum metal deck plates. These had > a tendency to distort with changes in internal/external temperature, > thus changing the tape path. This could produce audible results and > alignment instability, particularly azimuth. These machines could be > badly affected by an air conditioner vent pointed at them. This is not > the case with the APR recorders, along with all the rest of contemporary > pro recorders, that use cast deck plates that haven't got the stresses > in them that make them shift with temperature. Semi-pro machines and > home machines, that is a different matter. It is a cost issue. > > It is easy to forget sometimes that MCI/Sony, Studer, Ampex, 3M, and > other manufacturers of full out professional recorders were designing > these units as industrial machines, meant to make money for the user and > be used 24/7 for years on end. As a result, under certain conditions a > rare home or semi pro machine may sound a bit better or be slicker to > use. The compromises made for full out pro use are such that it must be > very fast, reliable, and serviceable. These are nearly as important as > the sonic quality to a studio, and in the long run contribute to the > sonic quality because the machines stay adjusted and don't really wear > out it they are kept properly serviced. > > ________________________________ > > From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:06 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > I just have a few of things: > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified > local tech. > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > tape loaded. > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > SS > blevinsaudio.com > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > Rule > > #2: > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have > no > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > > you're talking about. > > > > Bob, > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > this > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > > side is centered in its travel. > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > the > > machine is > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > > and do it again. > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Bob: > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092405987/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=103577697> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #336 From: "bae_steve" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:40 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 bae_steve Offline Send Email Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. I've re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not so much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, I'll sip my bitter while I try to explain: MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = Reel Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your > situation is different, especially yours since this is your source > of income. > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I wouldn't > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of this. > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in the "professionals". > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > service calls. > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak > for you or Scott. > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. Its > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > I just have a few of things: > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in > the > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > unqualified > > local tech. > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > sensitivity > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > > tape loaded. > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- adjusted/faulty > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the > other > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > > > SS > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise > your > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. > I > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > > Rule > > > #2: > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine > may > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would > have > > no > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot > to > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of > the > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know > what > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > > this > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't > cure > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > accessed > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls > out > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this > may > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter > set > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > align > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark > by > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet > metal > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels > off. > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > supply > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > > the > > > machine is > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in > tape > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > (playing > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > capstan > > > and do it again. > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing > no > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its > not > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. > BTW, > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it > may > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for > Sony, > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, > you > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #337 From: "bae_steve" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:45 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5K3 bae_steve Offline Send Email P.S. APR 3k5 = dislexic for APR 5k3 SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. I've > re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym > variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to > communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not so > much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, I'll > sip my bitter while I try to explain: > > MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). > HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = Reel > Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. > > BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. > > SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually > > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being > > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch > > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than > > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list > > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in > > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out > > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your > > situation is different, especially yours since this is your source > > of income. > > > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one > > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum > > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I > wouldn't > > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to > > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). > > > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have > > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying > > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you > > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. > > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of > this. > > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in > the "professionals". > > > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I > > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > > service calls. > > > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself > > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making > > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for > > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within > > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get > > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak > > for you or Scott. > > > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my > > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. > Its > > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have > > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > > I just have a few of things: > > > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in > > the > > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > > unqualified > > > local tech. > > > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > > sensitivity > > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted > w/out > > > tape loaded. > > > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis- aligned/mis- > > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- > adjusted/faulty > > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo > sensor, > > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the > > other > > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > > > > > SS > > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise > > your > > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice > here. > > I > > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > > > Rule > > > > #2: > > > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine > > may > > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using > this > > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would > > have > > > no > > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided > isn't > > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot > > to > > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of > > the > > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know > > what > > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > > > this > > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't > > cure > > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > > accessed > > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls > > out > > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this > > may > > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter > > set > > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > > align > > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball > bark > > by > > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet > > metal > > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels > > off. > > > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape > on > > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > > supply > > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan > (while > > > the > > > > machine is > > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What > you > > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in > > tape > > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > > (playing > > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > > capstan > > > > and do it again. > > > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, > providing > > no > > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its > > not > > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. > > BTW, > > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it > > may > > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for > > Sony, > > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your > problem > > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, > > you > > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > > tel.818.377.5264 Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #338 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:32 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 3005 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The environmental testing was largely self inflicted. I'd been victimized by older MCI/Sony products being unstable, and I made it rather a mission: The buck would stop at this new model (the APR). I already knew from my industry experience where the body's where, so I when right at them. All I could do was force the engineering group to follow design spec no matter what, and I did. Safe to say I wasn't much loved by engineering. The design spec's were out of my hands. Sales did that, and we all know that sales will say anything...The English guy on the MXP-2000 project had a nick name for me, common I think.... Pardon the expression, list members ! I was the "Picky ass mother 'F'er" ....and so I am. It is not commonly known how much a manufacturer struggles for every DB of noise floor reduction, every .1 db of frequency response. It always looks easier from the outside. I know, before I came to Sony I was a major studio's consumer of the 'Goods". I actually struggled to re-engineer some of the design flaws in the MCI/Sony gear at the receiving end.....and did. There is such a different prospective ... customer or manufacturer ... trying to deliver at a price point.... From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:08 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 Scott, I always felt sorry for you when I saw you in the winter coat in the middle of summer in Ft. Lauderdale. Its a shame they had to put you in the testing chamber along with the APR. I also remember us walking each machine around the parking lot for "shock testing". Remember the threebond on each screw? I had to set up camp near the garbage hopper one day to investigate whether or not the mu-metal disks glued on to the APR24 fans really affected standing noise on the machine. We were concerned there was too much ambient magnetic fields inside the building. These disks which were not correctly centered on the middle of the fan caused quite a few fan failures on the APR24, resulting in heat damage to the power supply components. For the record, the 1/3dB difference in standing noise was not worth the bearing damage caused to the fans by the off-center mu-metal shields. If any APR24 users out there have these disks on their fans, TAKE THEM OFF! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Steve and Cary have tape creep covered here... I can't add a thing to > it. Tape creep points back at tension problems in general, particularly > with your prior description of the machine's fault symptoms keep > pointing back to tension / transport adjustment problems or a minor > electronic failure that has been 'adjusted' instead of repaired. As I > mentioned before, equipment that has been used for 'training' in > recording schools has often had every single thing 'adjusted', and not > well. I had many experiences with this while representing another > manufacturer, Otari, on factory warranty trips to Full Sail. Steve's > point (well taken) is that once random adjustments are attempted, it is > the 'chicken or the egg' syndrome, and a truly experienced tech is then > needed to sort things out. IF this is the case, get an experienced tech > and make SURE you tell him what was done. He'll find out anyway, but > it'll cost a lot more. I realize it is easy for us to say, we are fully > qualified to service these things... if we own it, fixing it costs us > just the price of parts. But put bluntly, if it isn't working right, get > it fixed. If it isn't stable, it's broken. Get it fixed. > > As for Allegro rule #2, well.... with all due respect, I believe this is > just plain wrong on most modern professional equipment. Some case might > be made for extended warm-up on tube equipment, but something like an > APR.... no, this is basically just going to shorten the life of the > florescent display and the electronics. It is fine if you are using the > APR all the time, as in a radio station edit room or a 24/7 recording > environment, but then you are getting useful productive life from the > machine. I agree with a brief warm-up, sure. But 72 hours ? No way. > > The heat levels inside an APR are quite high due mostly to the compact > design. This was a sales requirement for the design that the Japanese > wanted. Engineering hated it. It made it difficult to build and heat/air > flow was a problem. After much environmental testing with probes all > over the inside of the APR I can assure you... it comes up to a stable > (but high) internal temperature quickly. Alignments at normal room > temperatures it should be stable to any reasonable determination within > 1-1 1/2 hours of power up. Since you have to open the door to align the > recorder, any (VERY, VERY) slight advantage to be gained by extended > warm-up will disappear as the excess heat exits the card cage with the > door open. Further, internal temperature levels will rise somewhat when > the machine is in record solidly for more than 10 minutes or so. A great > deal of effort was made to make the APR audio electronics stable with > internal and external temperature. Nothing is perfect. Extended > continuous recordings may produce some very slight bias changes. An > extended warm-up will not change this, as it is the localized heating of > a few components, and the prototype design was changed to equipped those > parts with a sensor to help track and balance that change. > > The end-to-end quality of the tape stock is going to have more of an > effect on the sonic quality of the recording than anything you might > gain by a 72 hour warm-up. (I personally shivered in an environmental > chamber with an APR for many days at -10 degrees with a 20 mile an hour > wind, then raising the temperature to 104 degrees within 40 minutes, all > the while measuring and listening. By the way, it rains inside and > outside the APR when you do that at 80% humidity....... The recorder > kept working.) > > In older model machines, one reason for extended warm-up times (extended > in this case means 12 hours) was because some old 2 track and multitrack > professional recorders had rolled aluminum metal deck plates. These had > a tendency to distort with changes in internal/external temperature, > thus changing the tape path. This could produce audible results and > alignment instability, particularly azimuth. These machines could be > badly affected by an air conditioner vent pointed at them. This is not > the case with the APR recorders, along with all the rest of contemporary > pro recorders, that use cast deck plates that haven't got the stresses > in them that make them shift with temperature. Semi-pro machines and > home machines, that is a different matter. It is a cost issue. > > It is easy to forget sometimes that MCI/Sony, Studer, Ampex, 3M, and > other manufacturers of full out professional recorders were designing > these units as industrial machines, meant to make money for the user and > be used 24/7 for years on end. As a result, under certain conditions a > rare home or semi pro machine may sound a bit better or be slicker to > use. The compromises made for full out pro use are such that it must be > very fast, reliable, and serviceable. These are nearly as important as > the sonic quality to a studio, and in the long run contribute to the > sonic quality because the machines stay adjusted and don't really wear > out it they are kept properly serviced. > > ________________________________ > > From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:06 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > I just have a few of things: > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in the > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your unqualified > local tech. > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the sensitivity > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted w/out > tape loaded. > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis-adjusted/faulty > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo sensor, > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the other > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > SS > blevinsaudio.com > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise your > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice here. I > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > Rule > > #2: > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine may > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using this > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would have > no > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided isn't > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot to > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of the > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know what > > you're talking about. > > > > Bob, > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > this > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't cure > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be accessed > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls out > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this may > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter set > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To align > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball bark by > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet metal > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels off. > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape on > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the supply > > side is centered in its travel. > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan (while > the > > machine is > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What you > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in tape > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan (playing > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the capstan > > and do it again. > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, providing no > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its not > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. BTW, > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it may > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for Sony, > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your problem > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, you > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > Hi Bob: > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > Best regards, > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092405987/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=103577697> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #339 From: "James King" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:08 am Subject: new here statick001 Offline Send Email Just saying a quick hi to everyone here, I joined yesterday. I bought a ¼” apr 5003 a couple of weeks ago, which im planning to master to in my studio. I haven’t got it set up yet, but will do so over the next few weeks. Does anyone have a manual they could copy for me? Ive been googling for ages and cant come up with anything… Cheers James Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #340 From: "statick001" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:24 am Subject: Re: new here statick001 Offline Send Email sorry should have searched the archive first :) ok so i get it that manuals are quite hard to come by! well if anyone can get me one i'll scan it and post up a PDF so the whole world can get it. sound fair? Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #341 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:31 am Subject: Re: Re: new here richardlhess Offline Send Email Keep checking the archive or go to http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ and sign in user name apr password 5003v it IS case sensitive Cheers, Richard At 08:24 AM 8/13/2004 +0000, statick001 wrote: >sorry should have searched the archive first :) > >ok so i get it that manuals are quite hard to come by! well if >anyone can get me one i'll scan it and post up a PDF so the whole >world can get it. sound fair? > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #342 From: OtherWorld Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:05 am Subject: Re: new here otherworldrec Offline Send Email James Welcome aboard and congrats! Hope you find what you’re looking for. Regards Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/13/04 3:08 AM, "James King" wrote: Just saying a quick hi to everyone here, I joined yesterday. I bought a ¼” apr 5003 a couple of weeks ago, which im planning to master to in my studio. I haven’t got it set up yet, but will do so over the next few weeks. Does anyone have a manual they could copy for me? Ive been googling for ages and cant come up with anything… Cheers James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #343 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:23 pm Subject: Re: new here ladewd Offline Send Email Hello James, Welcome to the group. Set up the machine, see how its working and if I can be of any assistance, just ask. A few of us here have worked at the factory and can pretty much answer any questions you may have. Regards, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "statick001" wrote: > sorry should have searched the archive first :) > > ok so i get it that manuals are quite hard to come by! well if > anyone can get me one i'll scan it and post up a PDF so the whole > world can get it. sound fair? Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #344 From: "Bob Marriott" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:24 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 3005 ferrograph2003 Offline Send Email To Steve et al. Many thanks for your prompt reply. After further investigation we found the creep possibly attributable to the brake solonoids in the closed position.allowing the spool platforms to rotate under eddy-current conditions. I have NO information on this otherwise excellent recorder - and ask how do I activate the brake solonoids or remove the 24v supply. I realise this is linked to the stop button. Any ideas?? Also the end of tape detector does not function. Do I scrap the recorder?? Regards Bob Marriott UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bae_steve" To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:40 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. I've > re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym > variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to > communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not so > much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, I'll > sip my bitter while I try to explain: > > MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). > HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = Reel > Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. > > BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. > > SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually > > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being > > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch > > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than > > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list > > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in > > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out > > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your > > situation is different, especially yours since this is your source > > of income. > > > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one > > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum > > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I > wouldn't > > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to > > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). > > > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have > > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying > > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you > > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. > > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of > this. > > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in > the "professionals". > > > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I > > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > > service calls. > > > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself > > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making > > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for > > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within > > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get > > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak > > for you or Scott. > > > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my > > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. > Its > > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have > > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > > I just have a few of things: > > > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in > > the > > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > > unqualified > > > local tech. > > > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > > sensitivity > > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted > w/out > > > tape loaded. > > > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- > adjusted/faulty > > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo > sensor, > > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the > > other > > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > > > > > SS > > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise > > your > > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice > here. > > I > > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > > > Rule > > > > #2: > > > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine > > may > > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using > this > > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would > > have > > > no > > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided > isn't > > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot > > to > > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of > > the > > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know > > what > > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > > > this > > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't > > cure > > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > > accessed > > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls > > out > > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this > > may > > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter > > set > > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > > align > > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball > bark > > by > > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet > > metal > > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels > > off. > > > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape > on > > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > > supply > > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan > (while > > > the > > > > machine is > > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What > you > > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in > > tape > > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > > (playing > > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > > capstan > > > > and do it again. > > > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, > providing > > no > > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its > > not > > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. > > BTW, > > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it > > may > > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for > > Sony, > > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your > problem > > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, > > you > > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #345 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:47 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 3005 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The brake bands should only actually be used when the tape sensor is unloaded or if the power fails in play or wind. Under normal conditions, the brakes are never used at all in play or wind modes. All braking then is done dynamically by the reel motor tensions changing under processor control. If there is no tape on the machine and the tape sensor is blocked (assuming it worked), then the reel platforms should rotate, about once every three seconds. (Cary, that is the right rotation rate isn't it? ) if they rotate at the same speed, all other things being equal, then it shouldn't creep with tape loaded either. I'm just stating NORMAL behavior here so you know what you should be expecting. From: Bob Marriott [mailto:bob@...] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 To Steve et al. Many thanks for your prompt reply. After further investigation we found the creep possibly attributable to the brake solonoids in the closed position.allowing the spool platforms to rotate under eddy-current conditions. I have NO information on this otherwise excellent recorder - and ask how do I activate the brake solonoids or remove the 24v supply. I realise this is linked to the stop button. Any ideas?? Also the end of tape detector does not function. Do I scrap the recorder?? Regards Bob Marriott UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bae_steve" To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:40 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. I've > re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym > variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to > communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not so > much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, I'll > sip my bitter while I try to explain: > > MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). > HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = Reel > Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. > > BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. > > SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually > > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being > > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch > > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than > > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list > > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in > > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out > > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your > > situation is different, especially yours since this is your source > > of income. > > > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one > > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum > > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I > wouldn't > > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to > > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). > > > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have > > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying > > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you > > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. > > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of > this. > > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in > the "professionals". > > > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I > > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > > service calls. > > > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself > > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making > > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for > > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within > > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get > > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak > > for you or Scott. > > > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my > > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. > Its > > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have > > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > > I just have a few of things: > > > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in > > the > > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > > unqualified > > > local tech. > > > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > > sensitivity > > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted > w/out > > > tape loaded. > > > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis-aligned/mis- > > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- > adjusted/faulty > > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo > sensor, > > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the > > other > > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > > > > > SS > > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise > > your > > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice > here. > > I > > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > > > Rule > > > > #2: > > > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine > > may > > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using > this > > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would > > have > > > no > > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided > isn't > > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot > > to > > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of > > the > > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know > > what > > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > > > this > > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't > > cure > > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > > accessed > > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls > > out > > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this > > may > > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter > > set > > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > > align > > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball > bark > > by > > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet > > metal > > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels > > off. > > > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape > on > > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > > supply > > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan > (while > > > the > > > > machine is > > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What > you > > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in > > tape > > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > > (playing > > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > > capstan > > > > and do it again. > > > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, > providing > > no > > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its > > not > > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. > > BTW, > > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it > > may > > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for > > Sony, > > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your > problem > > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, > > you > > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #346 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:51 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 3005 masteringman... Offline Send Email Bob Marriot: > After further investigation we found the creep possibly attributable to the > brake solonoids in the closed position.allowing the spool platforms to > rotate under eddy-current conditions. No. The brakes are never active unless you remove the 230V incoming power. Under all conditions the reels are under control of DC servos that controls the motors. > ask how do > I activate the brake solonoids or remove the 24v supply. You don´t. The creep is adjusted as has been stated before on this list by balancing the rotational rate of the reel motors when putting something into the EOT sensor to simulate normal operation. You adjust this by the idle adjust trimmers for one revolution every three seconds. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #347 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:58 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 ladewd Offline Send Email To Bob: 3 sec = 1 rotation. That was the spec for the JH series machines. I'm sure the idle speed was carried over to the APR. The APR is adjusted differently though. The rotational speed is merely a reference and is not used in the actual alignment of the idles as on the JH series. I don't know if there are any more photocells available through Sony. The most common failure of these are broken leads or a pinched cable. There is an adjustment which will control the sensitivity, but there's a pretty wide window for adjustment on the pot, so I would imagine the photocell is inoperative. It is certainly possible to continue to use the machine without the function of the photoell, as long as you're there to catch the reels when the tape spools off. It sounds like you may have inhertited a "basket case", but all is not lost. If you can perform the RMD alignments you will be in luck. If not, some repairs may be required. Where are you located? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > The brake bands should only actually be used when the tape sensor is > unloaded or if the power fails in play or wind. Under normal conditions, > the brakes are never used at all in play or wind modes. All braking then > is done dynamically by the reel motor tensions changing under processor > control. If there is no tape on the machine and the tape sensor is > blocked (assuming it worked), then the reel platforms should rotate, > about once every three seconds. (Cary, that is the right rotation rate > isn't it? ) if they rotate at the same speed, all other things being > equal, then it shouldn't creep with tape loaded either. > > I'm just stating NORMAL behavior here so you know what you should be > expecting. > > ________________________________ > > From: Bob Marriott [mailto:bob@m...] > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:24 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > To Steve et al. > Many thanks for your prompt reply. > After further investigation we found the creep possibly attributable to > the > brake solonoids in the closed position.allowing the spool platforms to > rotate under eddy-current conditions. > I have NO information on this otherwise excellent recorder - and ask how > do > I activate the brake solonoids or remove the 24v supply. I realise this > is > linked to the stop button. Any ideas?? > > Also the end of tape detector does not function. Do I scrap the > recorder?? > > Regards Bob Marriott UK. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bae_steve" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:40 AM > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > > Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. I've > > re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym > > variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to > > communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not so > > much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, I'll > > sip my bitter while I try to explain: > > > > MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). > > HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = Reel > > Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. > > > > BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. > > > > SS > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I actually > > > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > > > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not being > > > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the touch > > > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > > > > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less than > > > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > > > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the list > > > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live in > > > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone out > > > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and your > > > situation is different, especially yours since this is your source > > > of income. > > > > > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money on one > > > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly minimum > > > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I > > wouldn't > > > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession to > > > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my career). > > > > > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > > > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who have > > > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > > > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since buying > > > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what you > > > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech first. > > > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > > > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of > > this. > > > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in > > the "professionals". > > > > > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > > > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but personally, I > > > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > > > service calls. > > > > > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or myself > > > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > > > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of making > > > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call for > > > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support (within > > > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery and get > > > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't speak > > > for you or Scott. > > > > > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in my > > > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > > > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. > > Its > > > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which have > > > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that now. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > > > I just have a few of things: > > > > > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to charge > > > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified person has > > > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified tech in > > > the > > > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > > > unqualified > > > > local tech. > > > > > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > > > sensitivity > > > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted > > w/out > > > > tape loaded. > > > > > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis- aligned/mis- > > > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- > > adjusted/faulty > > > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo > > sensor, > > > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be about 3 > > > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and the > > > other > > > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. reel. > > > > > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in L.A. > > > > > > > > SS > > > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to advertise > > > your > > > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind of > > > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice > > here. > > > I > > > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice sounds > > > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness Allegro > > > > Rule > > > > > #2: > > > > > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 hours is > > > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the machine > > > may > > > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine up a > > > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using > > this > > > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I would > > > have > > > > no > > > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided > > isn't > > > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a lot > > > to > > > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake of > > > the > > > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you know > > > what > > > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly feel > > > > this > > > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that doesn't > > > cure > > > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > > > accessed > > > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need to be > > > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD offset > > > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual calls > > > out > > > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can adjust the > > > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment (this > > > may > > > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital voltmeter > > > set > > > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > > > align > > > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball > > bark > > > by > > > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper sheet > > > metal > > > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the panels > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of tape > > on > > > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > > > supply > > > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan > > (while > > > > the > > > > > machine is > > > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. What > > you > > > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease in > > > tape > > > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > > > (playing > > > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > > > capstan > > > > > and do it again. > > > > > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, > > providing > > > no > > > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm (its > > > not > > > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment doesn't > > > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel comfortable > > > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the procedure > > > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with him. > > > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more advice. > > > BTW, > > > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and while it > > > may > > > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines for > > > Sony, > > > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your > > problem > > > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and Scott, > > > you > > > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092504272/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=365116689> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #348 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:03 pm Subject: Manual for 5003 andy30ips Offline Send Email I have a manual for the APR5003 series that is as new. I have no means to scan it. I am not a studio, just a hobbyist, so I can part with the book for a while. If someone is willing to scan the manual, please list or send me your address. Thanks, Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #349 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:16 pm Subject: Re: Manual for 5003 ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Andy, We have one available online already but thanks for the offer. How's that RMD repair coming along? Have you heard back from Sony yet? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Pennella" wrote: > I have a manual for the APR5003 series that is as new. I have no means to > scan it. I am not a studio, just a hobbyist, so I can part with the book for > a while. If someone is willing to scan the manual, please list or send me > your address. > > Thanks, > > Andy Pennella > Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #350 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:19 am Subject: APR 5003 RMD board andy30ips Offline Send Email In answer to Cary's question, I did indeed end up sending my smoked RMD board to SONY. They told me to mail it to the Teaneck, NJ repair center. I spoke to the tech whose bench it ended up on, and he said while he could take a shot at it, he would really rather have a test bed for the board, or another machine. He poked around, and found a test machine at another facility, so the board is on the way there. The adventure continues, and the moral is - if a splice breaks, don't hit stop and grab the hubs (which I can do all day long on my Ampex 351), or you too will have this problem. Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #351 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:12 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 RMD board bae_steve Offline Send Email That's typical Sony for you. Teaneck was sending those things to me (off and on). They turn over those "service" phone referral positions so often, the person in August doesn't know what the person in July had already established. None of them even know where to find their own generated referral list. If you'd have sent it to me, it'd be back by now. If a splice breaks, the tape break photo cell is cleared. The machine automatically goes into stop, and the mechanical brakes come on, stopping both reels. If both of these things didn't happen, you have other problems. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Pennella" wrote: > In answer to Cary's question, I did indeed end up sending my smoked RMD > board to SONY. They told me to mail it to the Teaneck, NJ repair center. I > spoke to the tech whose bench it ended up on, and he said while he could > take a shot at it, he would really rather have a test bed for the board, or > another machine. He poked around, and found a test machine at another > facility, so the board is on the way there. The adventure continues, and the > moral is - if a splice breaks, don't hit stop and grab the hubs (which I can > do all day long on my Ampex 351), or you too will have this problem. > > Andy Pennella > Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #352 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:48 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 3005 bae_steve Offline Send Email Bob: If what you're saying is that the brake is dragging on one side; that won't cause creep, that would reduce it: Adjust the brake. If what you're saying is that the brakes are dis-engaged allowing the motors to rotate w/out tape, they're supposed to,when the sensor is blocked, or the photo cell is not funtioning: Adjust the RMD board. If you havn't tried adjusting the tape break sensor, or checking to make sure the connector is making good connection (right side of the Keypad), try that before assuming 'it's broke'. I don't even adjust MCI's to 3 sec. per revolution any more (it's just a reference). I use my DVM. However, if one reel is rotating at play speed and the other one is barely moving, the tape is going to creep. You activate the brakes by: 1. Turning the machine on. 2. Blocking the tape break photo cell. 3. Repair the TIB opto pull or hold circuit that is keeping the brake(s) form coming "on" (releasing). You de-activate the brakes by 1. Turning the machine off. 2. Unblocking the photo while the machine is on. 3. un-plugging the brake enable connector(s) from the TIB. You get rid of 24Vdc (for some unkown reason) by removing the 24Vdc fuse, connector, wire, etc. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > To Bob: > > 3 sec = 1 rotation. That was the spec for the JH series machines. > I'm sure the idle speed was carried over to the APR. The APR is > adjusted differently though. The rotational speed is merely a > reference and is not used in the actual alignment of the idles as on > the JH series. I don't know if there are any more photocells > available through Sony. The most common failure of these are broken > leads or a pinched cable. There is an adjustment which will control > the sensitivity, but there's a pretty wide window for adjustment on > the pot, so I would imagine the photocell is inoperative. > > It is certainly possible to continue to use the machine without the > function of the photoell, as long as you're there to catch the reels > when the tape spools off. > > It sounds like you may have inhertited a "basket case", but all is > not lost. If you can perform the RMD alignments you will be in > luck. If not, some repairs may be required. Where are you located? > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > wrote: > > The brake bands should only actually be used when the tape sensor > is > > unloaded or if the power fails in play or wind. Under normal > conditions, > > the brakes are never used at all in play or wind modes. All > braking then > > is done dynamically by the reel motor tensions changing under > processor > > control. If there is no tape on the machine and the tape sensor is > > blocked (assuming it worked), then the reel platforms should > rotate, > > about once every three seconds. (Cary, that is the right rotation > rate > > isn't it? ) if they rotate at the same speed, all other things > being > > equal, then it shouldn't creep with tape loaded either. > > > > I'm just stating NORMAL behavior here so you know what you should > be > > expecting. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Bob Marriott [mailto:bob@m...] > > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:24 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > > > > To Steve et al. > > Many thanks for your prompt reply. > > After further investigation we found the creep possibly > attributable to > > the > > brake solonoids in the closed position.allowing the spool > platforms to > > rotate under eddy-current conditions. > > I have NO information on this otherwise excellent recorder - and > ask how > > do > > I activate the brake solonoids or remove the 24v supply. I realise > this > > is > > linked to the stop button. Any ideas?? > > > > Also the end of tape detector does not function. Do I scrap the > > recorder?? > > > > Regards Bob Marriott UK. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "bae_steve" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:40 AM > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 3005 > > > > > > > Hi, all: I just wanted to clarify a few of my recent typo's. > I've > > > re-read some of the posts and notice there are a few acronym > > > variations. Kind of like how the Brit's and Yanks try to > > > communicate. I spend most of my time in the MCI world, and not > so > > > much in the MCI/Sony world, and no time in the Sony world. So, > I'll > > > sip my bitter while I try to explain: > > > > > > MDB = Motor Driver Board.....RMD = Reel Motor Driver (board). > > > HEF = Hall Effect (sensor)....HES = Hall Effect Sensor....RTS = > Reel > > > Tach Sensor...TTS = Tape Tach Sensor, etc. etc. > > > > > > BFD = Well, we'll let that one go..........for now. > > > > > > SS > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Good points Steve. (especially the MVC wheel thing). I > actually > > > > forgot about the touch sensivity switching, which wasn't > > > > incorporated on the 48 track or the APR24, so the wheel not > being > > > > centered properly will not result in reel creeping unless the > touch > > > > sensivity is misadjusted or not working. > > > > > > > > Scott, you, or myself would have these problems fixed in less > than > > > > an hour, even if component failure was involved. There is no > > > > replacement for experience. My concern is some people on the > list > > > > have recently bought these machines for $300-$600 and may live > in > > > > remote areas. Right now, I'm not working, so helping someone > out > > > > over the phone is not a problem for me. I'm sure Scott and > your > > > > situation is different, especially yours since this is your > source > > > > of income. > > > > > > > > Asking someone, who spent a relatively small amount of money > on one > > > > of these machines, to pay for travel expenses and a hourly > minimum > > > > is asking quite a lot. I have a small studio at home and I > > > wouldn't > > > > pay that price myself, which is why I took up this profession > to > > > > begin with (little did I know it would turn out to be my > career). > > > > > > > > If the users on this group were in pro studios and had paying > > > > clientelle, it would be different, but many users here, who > have > > > > small home studios and such, are not equipped to pay more for > > > > repairs than they paid for the machine, (especially since > buying > > > > another machine would be cheaper). As they say, you get what > you > > > > pay for. That is why I recommend people to get a local tech > first. > > > > You are correct in stating that an inexperienced tech can cause > > > > further damage and the people on the group need to be aware of > > > this. > > > > Somewhere down the line they may need to call in > > > the "professionals". > > > > > > > > If anyone is in your area, I would certainly recommend them > > > > contacting you, likewise with Scott and myself, but > personally, I > > > > really don't like traveling these days and will only take local > > > > service calls. > > > > > > > > If any users here are having problems, ask Steve, Scott or > myself > > > > If you're in my local area, I'd be glad to come out and take a > > > > look at the machine. I am currently not in the business of > making > > > > money repairing these machines, but I won't do a service call > for > > > > free. That being said, I can offer phone and email support > (within > > > > reason) for the time being. Once I recover from my surgery > and get > > > > back to work, that will certainly change. I certainly won't > speak > > > > for you or Scott. > > > > > > > > There are very few of us left from the MCI/Sony factory and in > my > > > > view, very few qualified people who feel comfortable working on > > > > these machines. Fortunately they are very dependable machines. > > > Its > > > > just that ebay has created a source for used machines which > have > > > > been poorly maintained and we're seeing the fallout from that > now. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" > wrote: > > > > > I just have a few of things: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep in mind that "qualified" tech's have been known to > charge > > > > > double to repair a simple problem after an unqualified > person has > > > > > created other problems: It's cheaper to hire a qualified > tech in > > > > the > > > > > first place; or pay him a consultation fee to advise your > > > > unqualified > > > > > local tech. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Allegro Rule #2 is totally bogus, dude. > > > > > > > > > > 3. The MVC has nothing to do w/ tape creep unless: a. the > > > > sensitivity > > > > > is mis-adjusted (i.e. MVC is on all the time), and b. the MVC > > > > > centering is mis-adjusted. MVC centering cannot be adjusted > > > w/out > > > > > tape loaded. > > > > > > > > > > 4. Creep is caused by either a poor tach signal (mis- > aligned/mis- > > > > > adjusted/absent) as I mention previously, or a mis- > > > adjusted/faulty > > > > > MDB as Cary described. W/out tape loaded, block the photo > > > sensor, > > > > > look at the reel rotation w/ an empty reel: It should be > about 3 > > > > > sec. per revolution. If one reel is rotating @ 2 sec. and > the > > > > other > > > > > @ 4 sec., the tape will creep in the direction of the 2 sec. > reel. > > > > > > > > > > 5. Cary: You and Rick@Allegro should do lunch together in > L.A. > > > > > > > > > > SS > > > > > blevinsaudio.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" > wrote: > > > > > > Rick, with all due respect, this is not a forum to > advertise > > > > your > > > > > > business. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the kind > of > > > > > > expertise on the APR series to be offering service advice > > > here. > > > > I > > > > > > remained quiet on the last one, but some of your advice > sounds > > > > > > canned and not gained from personal experience. Witness > Allegro > > > > > Rule > > > > > > #2: > > > > > > > > > > > > AllegroRule#2: > > > > > > Allow a 72-hr warmup for optimum > > > > > > sound quality; the side benefit being > > > > > > it cures a lot of unexplained problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling a customer to leave a broken machine on for 72 > hours is > > > > > > downright irresponsible. Furthermore, telling them the > machine > > > > may > > > > > > fix itself is even crazier. I'm all for warming a machine > up a > > > > > > bit, but 72 hours???? I'm also concerned that you're using > > > this > > > > > > forum to drum up business for yourself. Ordinarily, I > would > > > > have > > > > > no > > > > > > objection, but the quality of the advice you have provided > > > isn't > > > > > > worth the phone call you're soliciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be an expert at classical recording but you have a > lot > > > > to > > > > > > learn about servicing these machines. Please, for the sake > of > > > > the > > > > > > users here, don't offer anymore service advice unless you > know > > > > what > > > > > > you're talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > > > > > First follow Rick's advice about the MVC wheel. I honestly > feel > > > > > this > > > > > > is not the problem, but its not impossible. If that > doesn't > > > > cure > > > > > > it, follow this procedure. On the RMD board which can be > > > > accessed > > > > > > by lowering the back panel there are 4 pots. These need > to be > > > > > > adjusted per the manual page 16-6 which describe the RMD > offset > > > > > > adjusment and the tension adjustments. While the manual > calls > > > > out > > > > > > for using a tentelometer to adjust tensions, you can > adjust the > > > > > > tensions without one. First do the RMD offset adjustment > (this > > > > may > > > > > > cure the problem by itself). You will need a digital > voltmeter > > > > set > > > > > > to the millivolt range. Follow the directions exactly. To > > > > align > > > > > > tensions without a tentelometer, you can get it in the ball > > > bark > > > > by > > > > > > follwing this procedure. Take the headstack and upper > sheet > > > > metal > > > > > > panels off first, then replace the headstack leaving the > panels > > > > off. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Load a tape, and FF it so there is an equal amount of > tape > > > on > > > > > > both reels. Put the machine in PLAY > > > > > > 2. Adjust RV1 on the RMD board until the dancer arm on the > > > > supply > > > > > > side is centered in its travel. > > > > > > 3. Physically push the pinch roller away from the capstan > > > (while > > > > > the > > > > > > machine is > > > > > > in PLAY) and adjust RV2 to adjust the take up tension. > What > > > you > > > > > > want to accomplish is that you see no increase or decrease > in > > > > tape > > > > > > speed when you move the pinch roller away from the capstan > > > > (playing > > > > > > back a tone will help you hear the speed). Let go of the > > > > capstan > > > > > > and do it again. > > > > > > > > > > > > This will get you really close to the proper tensions, > > > providing > > > > no > > > > > > one has moved the centering adjustment on the dancer arm > (its > > > > not > > > > > > commonly adjusted). If for some reason this adjustment > doesn't > > > > > > work, you have a deeper problem. If you don't feel > comfortable > > > > > > doing this stuff, hire a local tech and show him the > procedure > > > > > > above. If he has any questions, I'll be glad to talk with > him. > > > > > > Good luck with it and post back if you need any more > advice. > > > > BTW, > > > > > > you're welcome to follow Rick's simplistic advice and > while it > > > > may > > > > > > have worked for him, in my 20 years of servicing machines > for > > > > Sony, > > > > > > I have never seen this as being a valid solution to your > > > problem > > > > > > (although I did see it on a 48 track once.) Steve and > Scott, > > > > you > > > > > > can chime in if you have any other ideas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Bob: > > > > > > > I assume you mean 5003. > > > > > > > Mine did the same thing; > > > > > > > try working the <> thumb-wheel > > > > > > > back and forth a few dozen > > > > > > > times in stop mode w/o tape; > > > > > > > if this doesn't fix it, give me a call. > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Rick@AllegroSound > > > > > > > "audio in the service of music" > > > > > > > Est.1973, Los Angeles CA > > > > > > > tel.818.377.5264 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > 56/ > > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1092504272/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* > htt > > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- > 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > > html> > > > > M=288055.5305875.6411081.2127756/D=group > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=365116689> > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (17 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #353 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:06 pm Subject: FYI, newbies bae_steve Offline Send Email My name is Steve Sadler. I was senior service eng. for MCI/Sony. I left in protest and went to Chuck Levin's in Md. Jan. 1990. Cary got all my headaches, and Henry got all of Johns. Cary and Henry also got Sony's pissed at me & John attitude. Rob't. Levin and I butted heads, and I went independent April, 1992. I freelanced until Aug. 2k, and have been w/ Randy Blevins (as an independent associate) since then. If I can't fix you're MCIJH, or MCI/Sony APR, it can't be fixed. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #354 From: OtherWorld Date: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:14 pm Subject: Re: FYI, newbies otherworldrec Offline Send Email Well, that explains a lot of the familiar dialog I was missing. Steve, I spoke with you on the phone a week or so back. I’m sure you’ll be hearing more from me in the coming weeks. Anyway- thanks for the heads up. Looks like all you MCI/Sony guys are really here. Very cool. Cheers! Scott Wilson On 8/15/04 8:06 PM, "bae_steve" wrote: My name is Steve Sadler. I was senior service eng. for MCI/Sony. I left in protest and went to Chuck Levin's in Md. Jan. 1990. Cary got all my headaches, and Henry got all of Johns. Cary and Henry also got Sony's pissed at me & John attitude. Rob't. Levin and I butted heads, and I went independent April, 1992. I freelanced until Aug. 2k, and have been w/ Randy Blevins (as an independent associate) since then. If I can't fix you're MCIJH, or MCI/Sony APR, it can't be fixed. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #355 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:02 pm Subject: RE: FYI, newbies ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Yep...... gang's all here. Someone here can likely help out on an APR or for that matter an MCI machine as well...they all crawled out of the same hole. This being an APR forum, I'll restrain myself... :>) From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:15 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] FYI, newbies Well, that explains a lot of the familiar dialog I was missing. Steve, I spoke with you on the phone a week or so back. I’m sure you’ll be hearing more from me in the coming weeks. Anyway- thanks for the heads up. Looks like all you MCI/Sony guys are really here. Very cool. Cheers! Scott Wilson On 8/15/04 8:06 PM, "bae_steve" wrote: My name is Steve Sadler. I was senior service eng. for MCI/Sony. I left in protest and went to Chuck Levin's in Md. Jan. 1990. Cary got all my headaches, and Henry got all of Johns. Cary and Henry also got Sony's pissed at me & John attitude. Rob't. Levin and I butted heads, and I went independent April, 1992. I freelanced until Aug. 2k, and have been w/ Randy Blevins (as an independent associate) since then. If I can't fix you're MCIJH, or MCI/Sony APR, it can't be fixed. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #356 From: OtherWorld Date: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:58 am Subject: Re: FYI, newbies otherworldrec Offline Send Email I’d say this list is a rarity in terms of “people in the know”. More Cheers. Scott Wilson OtherWorld On 8/15/04 10:02 PM, "Scott Phillips" wrote: Yep...... gang's all here. Someone here can likely help out on an APR or for that matter an MCI machine as well...they all crawled out of the same hole. This being an APR forum, I'll restrain myself... :>) From: OtherWorld [mailto:otherworld@...] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:15 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] FYI, newbies Well, that explains a lot of the familiar dialog I was missing. Steve, I spoke with you on the phone a week or so back. I’m sure you’ll be hearing more from me in the coming weeks. Anyway- thanks for the heads up. Looks like all you MCI/Sony guys are really here. Very cool. Cheers! Scott Wilson On 8/15/04 8:06 PM, "bae_steve" wrote: My name is Steve Sadler. I was senior service eng. for MCI/Sony. I left in protest and went to Chuck Levin's in Md. Jan. 1990. Cary got all my headaches, and Henry got all of Johns. Cary and Henry also got Sony's pissed at me & John attitude. Rob't. Levin and I butted heads, and I went independent April, 1992. I freelanced until Aug. 2k, and have been w/ Randy Blevins (as an independent associate) since then. If I can't fix you're MCIJH, or MCI/Sony APR, it can't be fixed. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #357 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:36 pm Subject: In the know andy30ips Offline Send Email Another such list of analog tape luminaries is the Ampex Newsgroup (which made me aware of the APR list). Many long-time recording engineers, designers and developers of Ampex gear, ex-factory service personnel, etc. Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #358 From: "bae_steve" Date: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:47 pm Subject: 7 day draught bae_steve Offline Send Email You people ran me ragged for weeks on end. Now when I come here to try to be ahead of all the forum posts on my e-mail, nothing for 7 days. Just like the audio business: Feast and famine. It must mean all the APR's are runnin' happy. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #359 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:03 pm Subject: Re: 7 day draught ladewd Offline Send Email zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz huh??? My machine is always running in tip top shape. Wish I can say the same for me. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > You people ran me ragged for weeks on end. Now when I come here to > try to be ahead of all the forum posts on my e-mail, nothing for 7 > days. Just like the audio business: Feast and famine. > > It must mean all the APR's are runnin' happy. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #360 From: "bae_steve" Date: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:40 pm Subject: Re: 7 day draught bae_steve Offline Send Email My three smile at me every morning. Each get a nice tape path wipe, and a happy tune to play through their eager speakers. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz huh??? > > My machine is always running in tip top shape. Wish I can say the > same for me. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > You people ran me ragged for weeks on end. Now when I come here > to > > try to be ahead of all the forum posts on my e-mail, nothing for 7 > > days. Just like the audio business: Feast and famine. > > > > It must mean all the APR's are runnin' happy. > > > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #361 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:30 pm Subject: Lurkers bae_steve Offline Send Email Not only are there non-APR5k/APR24 professionals on this "private" forum, there are lurkers who get free telephone advice by mentioning forum names. Need I mention that when I stop what I'm doing, including asking someone on hold who's studio is down, to answer questions for non-paying name droppers; I'm not making my rent, or resolving a pressing problem. I don't know how these non-members know everything there is on this forum, but keep in mind, I am not independently wealthy, and charge a consultation fee. If you want to PayPal me, it's bae_steve@... and it's $65.00 hr. If this percists, I'm libel to make my own daughter make a deposit before accepting her calls. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #362 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:38 pm Subject: Re: Lurkers bae_steve Offline Send Email I know there are typo's in my previous message, ex.: I meant put a client w/ a problem on hold, to answer a "forum members" question for free. That is a non-forum member who just knows everyones name. Richard? SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > Not only are there non-APR5k/APR24 professionals on this "private" > forum, there are lurkers who get free telephone advice by mentioning > forum names. Need I mention that when I stop what I'm doing, > including asking someone on hold who's studio is down, to answer > questions for non-paying name droppers; I'm not making my rent, or > resolving a pressing problem. I don't know how these non-members > know everything there is on this forum, but keep in mind, I am not > independently wealthy, and charge a consultation fee. If you want to > PayPal me, it's bae_steve@y... and it's $65.00 hr. If this > percists, I'm libel to make my own daughter make a deposit before > accepting her calls. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #363 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:50 pm Subject: RE: Re: Lurkers ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email t'aint me Steve.. :>) If I charged for the free advise I give out, I'd be a good deal richer !! Have to admit that UNINVITED calls can be a problem. I don't mind giving email advise for the most part, and if I invite someone to call to talk to them off list to help them out, that's ok too.... but cold calls from non-list members... hummmmm. I don't kiss on the first date !! From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:38 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Lurkers I know there are typo's in my previous message, ex.: I meant put a client w/ a problem on hold, to answer a "forum members" question for free. That is a non-forum member who just knows everyones name. Richard? SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > Not only are there non-APR5k/APR24 professionals on this "private" > forum, there are lurkers who get free telephone advice by mentioning > forum names. Need I mention that when I stop what I'm doing, > including asking someone on hold who's studio is down, to answer > questions for non-paying name droppers; I'm not making my rent, or > resolving a pressing problem. I don't know how these non-members > know everything there is on this forum, but keep in mind, I am not > independently wealthy, and charge a consultation fee. If you want to > PayPal me, it's bae_steve@y... and it's $65.00 hr. If this > percists, I'm libel to make my own daughter make a deposit before > accepting her calls. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #364 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:35 pm Subject: RE: Re: Lurkers ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I know there are at least 40 list members these days, but have no clue who most of them are in any case. Isn't Richard in the process of moving right now ? If not, you might want to go off list and tell him about whom ever this is. From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@...] Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:38 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Lurkers I know there are typo's in my previous message, ex.: I meant put a client w/ a problem on hold, to answer a "forum members" question for free. That is a non-forum member who just knows everyones name. Richard? SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > Not only are there non-APR5k/APR24 professionals on this "private" > forum, there are lurkers who get free telephone advice by mentioning > forum names. Need I mention that when I stop what I'm doing, > including asking someone on hold who's studio is down, to answer > questions for non-paying name droppers; I'm not making my rent, or > resolving a pressing problem. I don't know how these non-members > know everything there is on this forum, but keep in mind, I am not > independently wealthy, and charge a consultation fee. If you want to > PayPal me, it's bae_steve@y... and it's $65.00 hr. If this > percists, I'm libel to make my own daughter make a deposit before > accepting her calls. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #365 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:31 pm Subject: Re: Lurkers ladewd Offline Send Email Steve, I send you business when I can, other than that, it ain't me either. I hear ya, unwanted calls are not much fun. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > I know there are at least 40 list members these days, but have no clue > who most of them are in any case. Isn't Richard in the process of moving > right now ? If not, you might want to go off list and tell him about > whom ever this is. > > ________________________________ > > From: bae_steve [mailto:mcijh@a...] > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:38 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Lurkers > > > I know there are typo's in my previous message, ex.: I meant put a > client w/ a problem on hold, to answer a "forum members" question for > free. That is a non-forum member who just knows everyones name. > > Richard? > > SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > Not only are there non-APR5k/APR24 professionals on this "private" > > forum, there are lurkers who get free telephone advice by > mentioning > > forum names. Need I mention that when I stop what I'm doing, > > including asking someone on hold who's studio is down, to answer > > questions for non-paying name droppers; I'm not making my rent, or > > resolving a pressing problem. I don't know how these non- members > > know everything there is on this forum, but keep in mind, I am not > > independently wealthy, and charge a consultation fee. If you want > to > > PayPal me, it's bae_steve@y... and it's $65.00 hr. If this > > percists, I'm libel to make my own daughter make a deposit before > > accepting her calls. > > > > SS > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1093819098/A=2193927/R=0/SIG=12h94mm4e/* htt > p://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst- 56407110520241+QADt9Y+icopydvds2. > html> > > s/S=:HM/A=2193927/rand=640970892> > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #366 From: Erik Stromstad Date: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:39 am Subject: FS: Sony APR-5003 1/4" Tape Recorder tallguyaudio Offline Send Email Hello all, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 1/4" tape machine because I just moved into a new studio that already had an APR-5003 and there is no need to have two of the same machines in the studio. I love this machine and it is in great condition. Everything works perfectly as far as I know. I am willing to ship the machine to the lower 48 states, but it will cost a fair amount because of it's size and weight. I am asking $900 for the machine and stand, but I am willing to negotiate if needed. I live in St. Paul, MN so if you live close, this might be a great deal because we could figure out a dropoff, or pickup. If you have any questions, please shoot me an email at erik@... Thanks Erik Stromstad A440 Studios Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #367 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:28 pm Subject: Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! richardlhess Offline Send Email Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. Ozzie: Welcome, friend! Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine over time. Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #368 From: "Brian" Date: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:23 pm Subject: Re: Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! criticsdrmr Offline Send Email Richard, It turns out that I actually have a 5003. The front plate says APR 5000, but the tag on the back says 5003 and the serial # seems to agree. Unfortunately, the machine does not even power up. We are going to pull out the P/S and check the caps. Even if we do get it working, it needs a major tune-up. It hasn't been used in at least 4 years! --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've > had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! > > I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running > having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In > those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. > > To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. > > To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has > one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd > suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability > today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. > > Ozzie: Welcome, friend! > > Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a > need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine > over time. > > Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #369 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:23 am Subject: RE: Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ....I've been out of circulation as well .... had to have 5 stainless steel cardiac heart stents installed, as if the 6x heart bypass I already had last year weren't enough. On the mend now though. Richard, I'd rather have heart surgery than go through the hassle of moving again, I think..... :>) Welcome back ! -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:28 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. Ozzie: Welcome, friend! Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine over time. Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #370 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:27 am Subject: RE: Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Scott, Glad you're back--I know it's a tough choice, but I think I'll take the move over heart surgery--but it's close. Oh, and the move almost caused me to need heart surgery, too! Hope you're feeling much better. I decided not to go into it in depth, but some of the vocal folks over on the Studer list aren't happy at all with the APR. When I compared it to an A810 and A807 (I think, overall, the A810 and the APR5003 are roughly comparable machines, selling for roughly the same price), the response I received was I didn't get it and the APR isn't an A820 or A80 (well, the A820 cost twice what the APR did, so I think they aren't the ones to get it). But it was an interesting discussion. Does anyone from Sony here remember Roger Lagadec working for Sony and what the circumstances were about Sony luring him from Studer? Cheers, Richard At 11:23 PM 2004/10/18 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: ....I've been out of circulation as well .... had to have 5 stainless steel cardiac heart stents installed, as if the 6x heart bypass I already had last year weren't enough. On the mend now though. Richard, I'd rather have heart surgery than go through the hassle of moving again, I think..... :>) Welcome back ! -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:28 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. Ozzie: Welcome, friend! Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine over time. Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #371 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:11 pm Subject: RE: Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The name rings a few bells for me, but it was a long time ago. Cary or Steve might remember more. There were a number of RIF periods at Sony Professional Products Company (SPPC), leaving a number of very unhappy people feeling like they had been abandoned by changes in Sony's corporate directions. Most of them were after I quit Sony, but I certainly heard for ex-coworkers about them. Cary, Steve, what do you remember ??? -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:27 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! Hello, Scott, Glad you're back--I know it's a tough choice, but I think I'll take the move over heart surgery--but it's close. Oh, and the move almost caused me to need heart surgery, too! Hope you're feeling much better. I decided not to go into it in depth, but some of the vocal folks over on the Studer list aren't happy at all with the APR. When I compared it to an A810 and A807 (I think, overall, the A810 and the APR5003 are roughly comparable machines, selling for roughly the same price), the response I received was I didn't get it and the APR isn't an A820 or A80 (well, the A820 cost twice what the APR did, so I think they aren't the ones to get it). But it was an interesting discussion. Does anyone from Sony here remember Roger Lagadec working for Sony and what the circumstances were about Sony luring him from Studer? Cheers, Richard At 11:23 PM 2004/10/18 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: ....I've been out of circulation as well .... had to have 5 stainless steel cardiac heart stents installed, as if the 6x heart bypass I already had last year weren't enough. On the mend now though. Richard, I'd rather have heart surgery than go through the hassle of moving again, I think..... :>) Welcome back ! -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:28 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. Ozzie: Welcome, friend! Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine over time. Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #372 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:33 pm Subject: Re: Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! ladewd Offline Send Email Hey guys, good to see some action here again. Roger Lagadec was coerced to join the Sony team at SPPC. At that time, he was highly regarded as a top Studer design engineer. I don't know why he left Studer but he was probably given an offer he couldn't refuse. Quite frankly, he contributed little or nothing to our organization. His name flowed from management's tongues like he was some sort of "Golden Boy". It was another case of Sony trying to buy talent from the competition but I think overall, he was a big disappointment. There could've been some underlying reasons for this, quite possibly some of the Japanese higher brass may have made his life hell. Some of those guys had bigger egos than Roger. As I remember he wasn't around for more than a few years. Hey Scott!!! WTF?? I hope you're recovering quickly. Two times can't be much fun. Here I am hobbling around on crutches, and you've had you chest torn open. I thought I had it rough. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > The name rings a few bells for me, but it was a long time ago. Cary or Steve might remember more. There were a number of RIF periods at Sony Professional Products Company (SPPC), leaving a number of very unhappy people feeling like they had been abandoned by changes in Sony's corporate directions. Most of them were after I quit Sony, but I certainly heard for ex-coworkers about them. Cary, Steve, what do you remember ??? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:27 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay-- welcome new members! > > > > Hello, Scott, > > Glad you're back--I know it's a tough choice, but I think I'll take the move over heart surgery--but it's close. Oh, and the move almost caused me to need heart surgery, too! > > Hope you're feeling much better. > > I decided not to go into it in depth, but some of the vocal folks over on the Studer list aren't happy at all with the APR. > > When I compared it to an A810 and A807 (I think, overall, the A810 and the APR5003 are roughly comparable machines, selling for roughly the same price), the response I received was I didn't get it and the APR isn't an A820 or A80 (well, the A820 cost twice what the APR did, so I think they aren't the ones to get it). > > But it was an interesting discussion. > > Does anyone from Sony here remember Roger Lagadec working for Sony and what the circumstances were about Sony luring him from Studer? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:23 PM 2004/10/18 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > ....I've been out of circulation as well .... had to have 5 stainless steel cardiac heart stents installed, as if the 6x heart bypass I already had last year weren't enough. On the mend now though. Richard, I'd rather have heart surgery than go through the hassle of moving again, I think..... :>) > > Welcome back ! > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Richard L. Hess [ mailto:arclists@r...] > > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:28 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! > > > > Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've > > > had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! > > > > I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running > > > having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In > > > those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. > > > > To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. > > > > To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has > > > one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd > > > suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability > > > today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. > > > > Ozzie: Welcome, friend! > > > > Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a > > > need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine > > > over time. > > > > Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > 2208a5.jpg > > > 2208f3.jpg > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #373 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:40 pm Subject: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? ladewd Offline Send Email Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #374 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:10 pm Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Holy Moley !! Wish I either had the room or it was offered as individual pieces !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #375 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:25 pm Subject: RE: Re: Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ....typical corporate politics, I'm afraid. There were excellent people already in Sony... and the 'magic bullet' approach never works, particularly if it is just money that is the reason. I can testify as well to the very odd (by American standards) Japanese top brass politics. I'm an engineer and a technical person though... and have little patience for such time wasting foolery. It could be he felt the same. In any case, there was always a great deal of friction in that area. ..and I AM getting a bit tired of being a science experiment for doctors. Just the same, twice I've dodged the bullet and managed not to have a major heart attack to find out there was a major life-threatening problem. It is getting really old though... :>) -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! Hey guys, good to see some action here again. Roger Lagadec was coerced to join the Sony team at SPPC. At that time, he was highly regarded as a top Studer design engineer. I don't know why he left Studer but he was probably given an offer he couldn't refuse. Quite frankly, he contributed little or nothing to our organization. His name flowed from management's tongues like he was some sort of "Golden Boy". It was another case of Sony trying to buy talent from the competition but I think overall, he was a big disappointment. There could've been some underlying reasons for this, quite possibly some of the Japanese higher brass may have made his life hell. Some of those guys had bigger egos than Roger. As I remember he wasn't around for more than a few years. Hey Scott!!! WTF?? I hope you're recovering quickly. Two times can't be much fun. Here I am hobbling around on crutches, and you've had you chest torn open. I thought I had it rough. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > The name rings a few bells for me, but it was a long time ago. Cary or Steve might remember more. There were a number of RIF periods at Sony Professional Products Company (SPPC), leaving a number of very unhappy people feeling like they had been abandoned by changes in Sony's corporate directions. Most of them were after I quit Sony, but I certainly heard for ex-coworkers about them. Cary, Steve, what do you remember ??? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:27 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Roger Lagadec (was Sorry for the delay-- welcome new members! > > > > Hello, Scott, > > Glad you're back--I know it's a tough choice, but I think I'll take the move over heart surgery--but it's close. Oh, and the move almost caused me to need heart surgery, too! > > Hope you're feeling much better. > > I decided not to go into it in depth, but some of the vocal folks over on the Studer list aren't happy at all with the APR. > > When I compared it to an A810 and A807 (I think, overall, the A810 and the APR5003 are roughly comparable machines, selling for roughly the same price), the response I received was I didn't get it and the APR isn't an A820 or A80 (well, the A820 cost twice what the APR did, so I think they aren't the ones to get it). > > But it was an interesting discussion. > > Does anyone from Sony here remember Roger Lagadec working for Sony and what the circumstances were about Sony luring him from Studer? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:23 PM 2004/10/18 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > ....I've been out of circulation as well .... had to have 5 stainless steel cardiac heart stents installed, as if the 6x heart bypass I already had last year weren't enough. On the mend now though. Richard, I'd rather have heart surgery than go through the hassle of moving again, I think..... :>) > > Welcome back ! > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Richard L. Hess [ mailto:arclists@r...] > > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:28 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Sorry for the delay--welcome new members! > > > > Welcome to four new members. I apologize for the delay in approvals. I've > > > had a moving experience as they say: 33,000 pounds and 600 boxes! > > > > I am almost completely unpacked and my desktop computer is up and running > > > having been down two months while I did minimal email on my laptop. In > > > those two months, my server accumulated about 12,000 messages. > > > > To James: Congrats on your 1/4" APR5003. It should do well for you. > > > > To the fan of Blevins Audio, I'd get the APR over the MCI JH. Tallguy has > > > one for sale, and the two of you might come to terms on it, but I'd > > > suggest that two machines are a good choice with poor parts availability > > > today. As I understand it, Sony trashed the parts stock. > > > > Ozzie: Welcome, friend! > > > > Brian if you really have an APR5001 it's a mono machine. Unless you have a > > > need for a mono machine, it might best be used to support another machine > > > over time. > > > > Cary: THe APR16 made it safe and sound to my basement in Aurora, Ont. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > 2208a5.jpg > > > 2208f3.jpg > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #376 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:03 pm Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? richardlhess Offline Send Email Just the thought of packing and moving that collection causes me to break out in a sweat. I only moved about 20 R-R machines, and only one was really big and I had that professionally crated. None of the Studers (A810/A807) or APR-5000s are as big as the toob Ampex or even the 440 or the ATR800. I did move three Studer A807s like he has, but they were all broken down and the machines packed in boxes. It could cost half of his B-I-N price (or more) to move it! The A807 and the 440 are probably the best machines in the collection. Possible the better Tascam AMPEX (you string the capital letters together--that's what they called it at Ampex) the ATR-800. Apparently the ATR-700 was a warmed-over Teac 7030! The 800 was apparently made to Ampex specs. Take care of yourselves, Cary and Scott! No more of this letting doctors PRACTICE medicine on you! Cheers, Richard We've discussed it on the Ampex list at length... At 07:10 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: Holy Moley !! Wish I either had the room or it was offered as individual pieces !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #377 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:47 pm Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ....On the other hand, I'd love to have a few of the items myself. I haven't had a wire recorder since I was a kid...and an ATR102 and a A807 would be lovely. Do you know where I can find information on wire recorders? I am the curious sort, and have never known what sort of speeds or specs one could get or expect out of them.. Sorry APR folks on list, Just curious about it, and it goes to the history of recording.....!! Didn't mean to stray from the point of the list.. -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:03 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Just the thought of packing and moving that collection causes me to break out in a sweat. I only moved about 20 R-R machines, and only one was really big and I had that professionally crated. None of the Studers (A810/A807) or APR-5000s are as big as the toob Ampex or even the 440 or the ATR800. I did move three Studer A807s like he has, but they were all broken down and the machines packed in boxes. It could cost half of his B-I-N price (or more) to move it! The A807 and the 440 are probably the best machines in the collection. Possible the better Tascam AMPEX (you string the capital letters together--that's what they called it at Ampex) the ATR-800. Apparently the ATR-700 was a warmed-over Teac 7030! The 800 was apparently made to Ampex specs. Take care of yourselves, Cary and Scott! No more of this letting doctors PRACTICE medicine on you! Cheers, Richard We've discussed it on the Ampex list at length... At 07:10 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: Holy Moley !! Wish I either had the room or it was offered as individual pieces !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #378 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:00 pm Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? richardlhess Offline Send Email I don't think there's an ATR102 in the heap. The thing that looks like the ATR102 is an ATR800. I think wire recorders ran at 24 and 48 in/s. For a real wonderful kludge see: http://www.shifrin.net/audio/main%20wire%20page.htm Art is THE man to go to for wire transfers (and discs). Oh, and Rick Chinn of the Ampex List blew up the ebay photos and adjusted gamma at http://www.uneeda-audio.com/recorders.pdf But they won't be up very long. Cheers, Richard At 09:47 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, you wrote: ....On the other hand, I'd love to have a few of the items myself. I haven't had a wire recorder since I was a kid...and an ATR102 and a A807 would be lovely. Do you know where I can find information on wire recorders? I am the curious sort, and have never known what sort of speeds or specs one could get or expect out of them.. Sorry APR folks on list, Just curious about it, and it goes to the history of recording.....!! Didn't mean to stray from the point of the list.. -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:03 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Just the thought of packing and moving that collection causes me to break out in a sweat. I only moved about 20 R-R machines, and only one was really big and I had that professionally crated. None of the Studers (A810/A807) or APR-5000s are as big as the toob Ampex or even the 440 or the ATR800. I did move three Studer A807s like he has, but they were all broken down and the machines packed in boxes. It could cost half of his B-I-N price (or more) to move it! The A807 and the 440 are probably the best machines in the collection. Possible the better Tascam AMPEX (you string the capital letters together--that's what they called it at Ampex) the ATR-800. Apparently the ATR-700 was a warmed-over Teac 7030! The 800 was apparently made to Ampex specs. Take care of yourselves, Cary and Scott! No more of this letting doctors PRACTICE medicine on you! Cheers, Richard We've discussed it on the Ampex list at length... At 07:10 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: Holy Moley !! Wish I either had the room or it was offered as individual pieces !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #379 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:54 am Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You got me there, Richard ! That'll teach me to look closer at the photo next time. I glanced at the ebay photo and saw a similar form factor outline, and just assumed it was a 102. Clear enough after a better look and those PDF's... That wire recorder link was worth it. Seems like a man after your own Frankensony heart, Richard ! The playback on the site was impressive as well..... thanks ! -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:01 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? I don't think there's an ATR102 in the heap. The thing that looks like the ATR102 is an ATR800. I think wire recorders ran at 24 and 48 in/s. For a real wonderful kludge see: http://www.shifrin.net/audio/main%20wire%20page.htm Art is THE man to go to for wire transfers (and discs). Oh, and Rick Chinn of the Ampex List blew up the ebay photos and adjusted gamma at http://www.uneeda-audio.com/recorders.pdf But they won't be up very long. Cheers, Richard At 09:47 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, you wrote: ....On the other hand, I'd love to have a few of the items myself. I haven't had a wire recorder since I was a kid...and an ATR102 and a A807 would be lovely. Do you know where I can find information on wire recorders? I am the curious sort, and have never known what sort of speeds or specs one could get or expect out of them.. Sorry APR folks on list, Just curious about it, and it goes to the history of recording.....!! Didn't mean to stray from the point of the list.. -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:03 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Just the thought of packing and moving that collection causes me to break out in a sweat. I only moved about 20 R-R machines, and only one was really big and I had that professionally crated. None of the Studers (A810/A807) or APR-5000s are as big as the toob Ampex or even the 440 or the ATR800. I did move three Studer A807s like he has, but they were all broken down and the machines packed in boxes. It could cost half of his B-I-N price (or more) to move it! The A807 and the 440 are probably the best machines in the collection. Possible the better Tascam AMPEX (you string the capital letters together--that's what they called it at Ampex) the ATR-800. Apparently the ATR-700 was a warmed-over Teac 7030! The 800 was apparently made to Ampex specs. Take care of yourselves, Cary and Scott! No more of this letting doctors PRACTICE medicine on you! Cheers, Richard We've discussed it on the Ampex list at length... At 07:10 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: Holy Moley !! Wish I either had the room or it was offered as individual pieces !! -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] So you wnat to buy a tape machine? Check this auction out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=5726402109&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosti ng ..eer, you may have to glue it together, but for a true tape recorder nut, this collection looks pretty cool Cary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #380 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:55 am Subject: RE: So you wnat to buy a tape machine? richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:54 PM 2004/10/21 -0500, Scott Phillips wrote: That wire recorder link was worth it. Seems like a man after your own Frankensony heart, Richard ! The playback on the site was impressive as well..... thanks ! Yes, Scott, Art is a good friend, though we've never met. Did you hear "Painting the Clouds with Sunshine" on his site? That is from a c.1935 STEEL Tape (Marconi-Stiele machine). It is absolutely e-mazing. Magnetic tape didn't sound as good until c.1944 with some of the clandestine German stereo experiments--and in general not until 1946-1948 with Mullin and Ampex doing their thing. Certainly the contemporary tape didn't hold a candle to the steel tape. Cheers, Richard For a real wonderful kludge see: http://www.shifrin.net/audio/main%20wire%20page.htm Art is THE man to go to for wire transfers (and discs). Oh, and Rick Chinn of the Ampex List blew up the ebay photos and adjusted gamma at http://www.uneeda-audio.com/recorders.pdf But they won't be up very long. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #381 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:23 pm Subject: Should we open this list a little? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, members, There seems to be a need to discuss two other recorders that are in somewhat widespread use: (1) MCI machines (2) Otari machines Should we open this list up to either or both? I'm thinking that we should open it up to MCI machines as there is the Sony-MCI connection by purchase and some MCI machines were sold as Sony badged machines. I don't think we should open the list to Otari machines as they are a different animal. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I'm copying some people who asked about this and my suggestion is that one of them can start the Otari list and be the listmom. I'll join, just so I don't miss something, but I traded four MTR 10/12 machines for an APR-5003V, a remote, and some cash. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #382 From: Graham Newton Date: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:43 pm Subject: NEW STUDER list on YahooGroups! gnewtonca Offline Send Email TO ALL SONY-APR LIST MEMBERS: The SONY-APR LIST is getting a preview invitation... I will also post this to other lists in the near future. If you want to simplify things, just send me a private email and I'll send you a Yahoo "Invitation" that should make it easy for you to join the list. You are invited to join the STUDER list on YahooGroups:- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STUDER/ The STUDER group is for professional audio personnel that have bought, use, repair or are associated with the products of Studer Professional Audio AG of Regensdorf, Switzerland. Posting is restricted to approved members to prevent spammers and other Internet low-life from accessing and posting to the list. There are VERY FEW RESTRICTIONS on what is acceptable. Generally, if it relates to STUDER or similar professional audio equipment it's OK. Periodic individual FOR SALE or WANTS postings are encouraged as long as you are not in the business of regularly selling such items. Members are expected to respect the general rules of netiquette and leave s e x, religion and general politics for other lists. The list owner is Graham Newton who can be found at: http://www.audio-restoration.com There are other lists that cater to professional audio tape recorders such as Ampex. This list is similar and intended to lean toward STUDER products, but most other related things that are of interest to the professional audio user are also welcome. Opinions and comments from experience with the technology are encouraged, as are questions that can be answered by the experts who come to reside on this list. Since STUDER North America has effectively closed their operations, and passed the torch to unrelated USA and Canadian distributors, this list will provide a technology bridge with the collective knowledge of experts and listmembers. And now, on the expert side, Tom McCartney, formerly with Studer Canada Ltd., has agreed to become a listmember and you will hear from him and other former STUDER people who will be glad to share their knowledge and expertise with the list. As list owner, I will try not to get in the way, and I hope the list will more or less run itself with a little assistance from me here and there, by inviting and approving new members as they find this new and valuable resource. Come join us and enjoy! ... Graham Newton -- Audio Restoration by Graham Newton, http://www.audio-restoration.com World class professional services applied to tape or phonograph records for consumers and re-releases, featuring CEDAR's new CAMBRIDGE processes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #383 From: OtherWorld Date: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:37 pm Subject: Re: Should we open this list a little? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Richard I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to expand to MCI branded machines. Although a bit of a stretch beyond the APR line, it would seem a very natural and seamless progression. Thanks for asking....Cheers... Scott Wilson On 10/23/04 8:23 PM, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hello, members, There seems to be a need to discuss two other recorders that are in somewhat widespread use: (1) MCI machines (2) Otari machines Should we open this list up to either or both? I'm thinking that we should open it up to MCI machines as there is the Sony-MCI connection by purchase and some MCI machines were sold as Sony badged machines. I don't think we should open the list to Otari machines as they are a different animal. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I'm copying some people who asked about this and my suggestion is that one of them can start the Otari list and be the listmom. I'll join, just so I don't miss something, but I traded four MTR 10/12 machines for an APR-5003V, a remote, and some cash. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #384 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:25 am Subject: RE: Should we open this list a little? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree with your thoughts Richard. There is plenty of support Cary, Steve and I might offer on MCI machines. I might add that I an also have been through the factory training schools for Otari, and I might have some interest in something like that as well, although it is not my primary interest either..... (sonic snob ?) From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 8:23 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Should we open this list a little? Hello, members, There seems to be a need to discuss two other recorders that are in somewhat widespread use: (1) MCI machines (2) Otari machines Should we open this list up to either or both? I'm thinking that we should open it up to MCI machines as there is the Sony-MCI connection by purchase and some MCI machines were sold as Sony badged machines. I don't think we should open the list to Otari machines as they are a different animal. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I'm copying some people who asked about this and my suggestion is that one of them can start the Otari list and be the listmom. I'll join, just so I don't miss something, but I traded four MTR 10/12 machines for an APR-5003V, a remote, and some cash. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #385 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:32 am Subject: Thanks--we'll keep the discussion alive another week. richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Scotts! We will post an announcement here if a separate Otari list is started. The line is so fuzzy between Sony and MCI -- I had originally started this list for the APR as there was no resource on the net about them--and y'all know what I think of them. But those still trying to keep MCI machines DO need a place to hang out. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #386 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:44 pm Subject: Otari List Born richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, All, Anthony Kitson from Australia started: otari_equipment at Yahoogroups in case some of you are interested. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #387 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:09 pm Subject: Otari Group Subscribe richardlhess Offline Send Email Click on this link if you wish to subscribe to the Otari group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/otari_equipment/ Enjoy! Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #388 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:10 pm Subject: Re: Thanks--we'll keep the discussion alive another week. ladewd Offline Send Email Geez, I need to check this place daily again. Richard, it would be an excellent idea to include MCI machines in the group. Being that Steve, Scott and I share both backgrounds, we may be of help to users of these products. Its been years since I've worked on a JH machine, but I'm sure Steve and Scott can help refresh my memory in this area. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #389 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:34 pm Subject: RE: Re: Thanks--we'll keep the discussion alive another week. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I know (unfortunately ?) the JH machines like the wrinkles on the back of my hand... and I still do service them for folks in serious need. (pretty tough to find someone to service an ALIII processor PCB anymore...) I also have some spare parts. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 2:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Thanks--we'll keep the discussion alive another week. Geez, I need to check this place daily again. Richard, it would be an excellent idea to include MCI machines in the group. Being that Steve, Scott and I share both backgrounds, we may be of help to users of these products. Its been years since I've worked on a JH machine, but I'm sure Steve and Scott can help refresh my memory in this area. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #390 From: "paulmcculloh" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:26 am Subject: New owner advice coveted paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Hello! So glad this group exists! What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal Studios in Florida) until very recently. Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which should I turn to a qualified technician? Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a professional who can perform the required maintenance? Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer available or have been replaced by new models.) Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! Paul McCulloh > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items "Required" Demagnetizer; AC voltmeter; signal generator; appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies "Optional" oscilloscope; digital voltmeter; logic probe flutter meter > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; 15 ips NAB or IEC; 30 ips AES (1/4") > 6.2.4 Technician Tools rack gauge; zenith block; tentelometer; spring scale (1kg and 5kg); roller guide alignment tool; time code decoder box; center track time code head gauge; brake torque hub; various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #391 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:52 am Subject: RE: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Paul, Other list members may have other suggestions than these items, but this is what I'd consider minimum maintenance tools: 1.) A decent volt-ohm meter 2.) Demagnetizer 3.) Signal generator (your recording console may be OK to use for this if it has a decent tone generator built in.) 4.) Dual trace oscilloscope, nearly any brand or model, bandwidth spec not very important 5.) Cleaning supplies 6.) Test tapes for whatever speeds you plan on using only. From the nature and tone of your question, this ought to do it for you. The other items listed are for advanced service work, including mechanical / head setup that are best left to an experienced service technician. Personally, I have all these items and much more... but then I have been dealing with pro recorders for 30 years. In my experience it is dangerous to suggest to the untrained that they attempt much in non-electronic transport repairs. It usually leads to more problems than a client started out with........ However, should you find you must attempt them, I'm sure everyone here would try to help. There are work-arounds for many situations that you don't have the tools to do properly, and there are always people like John French at JRF magnetics that can get heads squared away if need be. From: paulmcculloh [mailto:pmc@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:26 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] New owner advice coveted Hello! So glad this group exists! What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal Studios in Florida) until very recently. Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which should I turn to a qualified technician? Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a professional who can perform the required maintenance? Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer available or have been replaced by new models.) Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! Paul McCulloh > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items "Required" Demagnetizer; AC voltmeter; signal generator; appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies "Optional" oscilloscope; digital voltmeter; logic probe flutter meter > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; 15 ips NAB or IEC; 30 ips AES (1/4") > 6.2.4 Technician Tools rack gauge; zenith block; tentelometer; spring scale (1kg and 5kg); roller guide alignment tool; time code decoder box; center track time code head gauge; brake torque hub; various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #392 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:36 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Paul, Century 3 in Orlando was a fine facility -- when I worked for National TeleConsultants, I think we did some work there and I had a tour when I was working on a different project on the lot. My suggestion is if it ain't broke don't fix it. These machines hold up well. Clean and demag the machine, then use your MRL test tape to check it out and tell us what you can't get right. I usually set EQ at the 8kHz azimuth tone and the RGC at the 16kHz azimuth tone and then check the response of the freq tones. Usually within a half dB or so (plus and minus) from 250-20K. Enjoy the machine! Cheers, Richard At 12:26 PM 2004/10/27 +0000, you wrote: >Hello! So glad this group exists! > >What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in >connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and >heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in >use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal >Studios in Florida) until very recently. > >Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which >should I turn to a qualified technician? > >Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 >of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to >actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a >professional who can perform the required maintenance? > >Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? >(Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer >available or have been replaced by new models.) > >Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work >on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > >Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general >is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > >Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > >"Required" > >Demagnetizer; >AC voltmeter; >signal generator; >appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > >"Optional" > >oscilloscope; >digital voltmeter; >logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > >7.5 ips NAB or IEC; >15 ips NAB or IEC; >30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > >rack gauge; >zenith block; >tentelometer; >spring scale (1kg and 5kg); >roller guide alignment tool; >time code decoder box; >center track time code head gauge; >brake torque hub; >various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #393 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:40 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted ladewd Offline Send Email I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around like a leaf in the wind. I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > "Required" > > Demagnetizer; > AC voltmeter; > signal generator; > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > "Optional" > > oscilloscope; > digital voltmeter; > logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > rack gauge; > zenith block; > tentelometer; > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > roller guide alignment tool; > time code decoder box; > center track time code head gauge; > brake torque hub; > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #394 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:16 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email That is about what I was thinking too, Cary. I'd have put the tentelometer on the list as well, but as the owner of 4 of them, I'm aware they are pricy as the dickens. I'd be concerned about used ones.... after a 'drop-test' they don't seem very accurate anymore, even after you adjust the trim on the side of them. (of course, one could calibrate them just at the required tension settings.... but that would be cheating ) He might do well on a machine that has been well maintained with just his console meters instead of an AC voltmeter if cash is an issue, or a decent Fluke multimeter that has the proper scales for the measurements required. That might be the cheapest way out. I DO agree with Richard though...if it isn't broken, don't fix it. On the other hand, a decent audio alignment is required... and the short list both of us have will get him there, I think. Come to think of it, a 'lively' topic might be the various types of tentelometers and uses. (roller bearing, fixed post, post diameters / lengths versus tape width being measured, tape backing / thickness vs. tentelometer readings, calibration procedures, etc.) Then there is always the question of exactly where to make your measurements....... From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:41 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around like a leaf in the wind. I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > "Required" > > Demagnetizer; > AC voltmeter; > signal generator; > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > "Optional" > > oscilloscope; > digital voltmeter; > logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > rack gauge; > zenith block; > tentelometer; > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > roller guide alignment tool; > time code decoder box; > center track time code head gauge; > brake torque hub; > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #395 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:21 pm Subject: RE: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email It is a wonder Cary, Richard, and I didn't run into each other at Century Three. I also did work up there. I also had an old friend working there. A great deal of money went into the place, that was for sure. Seems to me I was there doing some Neve or SSL commissioning of new gear, but for the life of me I can't recall. It was just too long ago... From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner advice coveted Hi, Paul, Century 3 in Orlando was a fine facility -- when I worked for National TeleConsultants, I think we did some work there and I had a tour when I was working on a different project on the lot. My suggestion is if it ain't broke don't fix it. These machines hold up well. Clean and demag the machine, then use your MRL test tape to check it out and tell us what you can't get right. I usually set EQ at the 8kHz azimuth tone and the RGC at the 16kHz azimuth tone and then check the response of the freq tones. Usually within a half dB or so (plus and minus) from 250-20K. Enjoy the machine! Cheers, Richard At 12:26 PM 2004/10/27 +0000, you wrote: >Hello! So glad this group exists! > >What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in >connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and >heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in >use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal >Studios in Florida) until very recently. > >Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which >should I turn to a qualified technician? > >Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 >of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to >actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a >professional who can perform the required maintenance? > >Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? >(Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer >available or have been replaced by new models.) > >Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work >on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > >Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general >is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > >Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > >"Required" > >Demagnetizer; >AC voltmeter; >signal generator; >appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > >"Optional" > >oscilloscope; >digital voltmeter; >logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > >7.5 ips NAB or IEC; >15 ips NAB or IEC; >30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > >rack gauge; >zenith block; >tentelometer; >spring scale (1kg and 5kg); >roller guide alignment tool; >time code decoder box; >center track time code head gauge; >brake torque hub; >various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #396 From: "wolfbob" Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:22 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted wolfrobert Offline Send Email I have three Tentelmeters. I dropped one and it has come off of its bearings. I will gladly sell it for a very low price to anyone who thinks they can fix it. Tentelometer wants the price of a small car to fix it. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:16 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted That is about what I was thinking too, Cary. I'd have put the tentelometer on the list as well, but as the owner of 4 of them, I'm aware they are pricy as the dickens. I'd be concerned about used ones.... after a 'drop-test' they don't seem very accurate anymore, even after you adjust the trim on the side of them. (of course, one could calibrate them just at the required tension settings.... but that would be cheating ) He might do well on a machine that has been well maintained with just his console meters instead of an AC voltmeter if cash is an issue, or a decent Fluke multimeter that has the proper scales for the measurements required. That might be the cheapest way out. I DO agree with Richard though...if it isn't broken, don't fix it. On the other hand, a decent audio alignment is required... and the short list both of us have will get him there, I think. Come to think of it, a 'lively' topic might be the various types of tentelometers and uses. (roller bearing, fixed post, post diameters / lengths versus tape width being measured, tape backing / thickness vs. tentelometer readings, calibration procedures, etc.) Then there is always the question of exactly where to make your measurements....... ________________________________ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:41 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around like a leaf in the wind. I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > "Required" > > Demagnetizer; > AC voltmeter; > signal generator; > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > "Optional" > > oscilloscope; > digital voltmeter; > logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > rack gauge; > zenith block; > tentelometer; > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > roller guide alignment tool; > time code decoder box; > center track time code head gauge; > brake torque hub; > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #397 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:52 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 10/27/04 5:48:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladewd@... writes: Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. Skip the real tent. Get a fish scale. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #398 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:22 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted ladewd Offline Send Email > > Skip the real tent. Get a fish scale. Yeah, that'll work, but it is a PITA to set tensions that way. Its much easier with a Tentel. Overall, the APR is not like a JH and once tensions are adjusted correctly, they tend to stay that way. So actually having one around is not a necessity. Most older machines call out for spring scales for tension measurement, but the alignment procedure in the APR manual calls out for a Tentel. Using a spring scale would require a bit of translation. If you only have 1 tape machine, its overkill to have one, but if you have several machines, they are a great tool. As far as what Scott was discussing, I use the Tentels without the rollers for 1/4" machines, but anything bigger than that I use the one with the rollers. I don't even try to use them on 2" machines, but others swear by them. I find it difficult to hold it perpendicular and get a meaningful measurement on the 2" machines. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #399 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:28 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree with Cary on this one.. the APR machines aren't victims of bad Molex connectors, terrible LM741 OP amps, and generator-type reel tachometers like the JH machines. If no one fiddles with the APR tension adjustments they are pretty stable, unless components are changed or other repairs made. I've done well with tentelometers, mostly using them in the way Cary does. However, I don't have a problem with using them on large tape formats.... but as he says, having one the right length and holding it perpendicular are vital, and not all that easy. I have precision weights that I use with a sample of the tape the client uses most to check and/or adjust the tentelometer before each use. It only takes a minute. I've used fish scales quite a few times and compared the results using tentelometers...and found the fish scale results to be much more inconsistent. (A recorder is held to a different standard than a game warden, I suspect... :>) None the less, the fish scale is better than nothing. What I found was the fish scales usually weren't meant to be used on their side, as most people use them, and they tend to bind somewhat when used that way. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:22 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted > > Skip the real tent. Get a fish scale. Yeah, that'll work, but it is a PITA to set tensions that way. Its much easier with a Tentel. Overall, the APR is not like a JH and once tensions are adjusted correctly, they tend to stay that way. So actually having one around is not a necessity. Most older machines call out for spring scales for tension measurement, but the alignment procedure in the APR manual calls out for a Tentel. Using a spring scale would require a bit of translation. If you only have 1 tape machine, its overkill to have one, but if you have several machines, they are a great tool. As far as what Scott was discussing, I use the Tentels without the rollers for 1/4" machines, but anything bigger than that I use the one with the rollers. I don't even try to use them on 2" machines, but others swear by them. I find it difficult to hold it perpendicular and get a meaningful measurement on the 2" machines. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #400 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:31 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I know THATS right ! The first one I dropped was the LAST one I dropped ! From: wolfbob [mailto:wolfbob@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:22 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted I have three Tentelmeters. I dropped one and it has come off of its bearings. I will gladly sell it for a very low price to anyone who thinks they can fix it. Tentelometer wants the price of a small car to fix it. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:16 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted That is about what I was thinking too, Cary. I'd have put the tentelometer on the list as well, but as the owner of 4 of them, I'm aware they are pricy as the dickens. I'd be concerned about used ones.... after a 'drop-test' they don't seem very accurate anymore, even after you adjust the trim on the side of them. (of course, one could calibrate them just at the required tension settings.... but that would be cheating ) He might do well on a machine that has been well maintained with just his console meters instead of an AC voltmeter if cash is an issue, or a decent Fluke multimeter that has the proper scales for the measurements required. That might be the cheapest way out. I DO agree with Richard though...if it isn't broken, don't fix it. On the other hand, a decent audio alignment is required... and the short list both of us have will get him there, I think. Come to think of it, a 'lively' topic might be the various types of tentelometers and uses. (roller bearing, fixed post, post diameters / lengths versus tape width being measured, tape backing / thickness vs. tentelometer readings, calibration procedures, etc.) Then there is always the question of exactly where to make your measurements....... ________________________________ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:41 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around like a leaf in the wind. I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit and > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section 6.2 > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense to > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are recommended? > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to work > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in general > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > Paul McCulloh > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > "Required" > > Demagnetizer; > AC voltmeter; > signal generator; > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > "Optional" > > oscilloscope; > digital voltmeter; > logic probe flutter meter > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > rack gauge; > zenith block; > tentelometer; > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > roller guide alignment tool; > time code decoder box; > center track time code head gauge; > brake torque hub; > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #401 From: "wolfbob" Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:54 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted wolfrobert Offline Send Email realize that decks that have servo controlled reel motors cannot be set properly with a fish scale as they must be set with tape running. This includes the APR 500x series I think. WBob ----- Original Message ----- From: "ladewd" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted > >> >> Skip the real tent. Get a fish scale. > > Yeah, that'll work, but it is a PITA to set tensions that way. Its > much easier with a Tentel. Overall, the APR is not like a JH and > once tensions are adjusted correctly, they tend to stay that way. > So actually having one around is not a necessity. Most older > machines call out for spring scales for tension measurement, but the > alignment procedure in the APR manual calls out for a Tentel. Using > a spring scale would require a bit of translation. If you only have > 1 tape machine, its overkill to have one, but if you have several > machines, they are a great tool. > > As far as what Scott was discussing, I use the Tentels without the > rollers for 1/4" machines, but anything bigger than that I use the > one with the rollers. I don't even try to use them on 2" machines, > but others swear by them. I find it difficult to hold it > perpendicular and get a meaningful measurement on the 2" machines. > > Cary > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #402 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:02 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thank you so much, everyone, for the excellent advice/information. You fellows are amazing. Your knowledge is, um, a little intimidating, yet your manner is not. I appreciate that a great deal. Okay, that said, I am about to (further?) expose my gross ignorance. I plunge fearlessly into the abyss: What is the difference between an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? The APR manual recommends the Fluke 77 as the preferred Digital Voltmeter. But the current model Fluke 77 is referred to by Fluke as a "multimeter." It appears that a multimeter can measure either AC or DC current. Does a "multimeter" combine the functions of an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? If not, what should I be looking for in terms of an AC Voltmeter, assuming the Fluke 77 is the preferred "Digital Voltmeter"? Thank you once again for your help! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first > released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- > trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe > thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around > like a leaf in the wind. > > I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, > cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. > An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating > the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is > not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on > the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit > and > > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section > 6.2 > > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense > to > > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are > recommended? > > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to > work > > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in > general > > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > > > "Required" > > > > Demagnetizer; > > AC voltmeter; > > signal generator; > > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > > > "Optional" > > > > oscilloscope; > > digital voltmeter; > > logic probe flutter meter > > > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > > > rack gauge; > > zenith block; > > tentelometer; > > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > > roller guide alignment tool; > > time code decoder box; > > center track time code head gauge; > > brake torque hub; > > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #403 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:41 am Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 10/29/2004 2:05:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmc@... writes: What is the difference between an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? The APR manual recommends the Fluke 77 as the preferred Digital Voltmeter. But the current model Fluke 77 is referred to by Fluke as a "multimeter." It appears that a multimeter can measure either AC or DC current. Does a "multimeter" combine the functions of an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? If not, what should I be looking for in terms of an AC Voltmeter, assuming the Fluke 77 is the preferred "Digital Voltmeter"? Multimeters can be set to read AC or DC, millivolts and lots of other things. While the Fluke is sweet, Radio Shack has a decent ones for about $60-100. Get one of their digital multi-range deals. Also, you might want to spring for the replacement warranty. If you fry it they'll replace it no questions asked. (thankfully) -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #404 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:37 am Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 10/28/2004 2:33:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: I agree with Cary on this one.. the APR machines aren't victims of bad Molex connectors, terrible LM741 OP amps, and generator-type reel tachometers like the JH machines. If no one fiddles with the APR tension adjustments they are pretty stable, unless components are changed or other repairs made. Well, the LM741's can be replaced and while the Molex connectors are a pain in the ass, adding die-electric grease (aka, spark plug grease) to them cures better then 90% of the problems. If no-one messes with the tension and transport stuff a JH-24 is a stable machine too. Either way, a transport alignemnt should be checked and done at least once every six months. -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #405 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:57 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Paul, Digital multimeters all read AC voltage. I'm not sure of the Fluke 77, but it may have also had decibel readings (which are just calculations off the voltage readings, really, but they make alignments a bit easier). The 77 is still available but doesn't appear to have a dB scale. I'd opt for one of the true RMS meters. The 187/189 have true RMS measurements and a dB scale. I don't know the difference between the two. Fluke is about the best. Meterman which used to be Wavetek may offer more value for money. I have a Fluke clamp ammeter and a Wavetek 27XT digital multimeter (no dB, not rms). I have other meters for rms. The Fluke clamp is a true RMS meter. http://www.fluke.com http://www.metermantesttools.com/mmusen/home/default.htm And a dealer who will give you a free multimeter if you ask on orders over some reasonable amount. I've bought enough over time to get three of the free meters. They're not bad (esp. for the price). http://www.web-tronics.com/ Who has a 6x3x1.5 foot cabinet full of test equipment. Cheers, Richard At 06:02 PM 2004/10/29 +0000, you wrote: >Thank you so much, everyone, for the excellent advice/information. >You fellows are amazing. Your knowledge is, um, a little >intimidating, yet your manner is not. I appreciate that a great >deal. > >Okay, that said, I am about to (further?) expose my gross >ignorance. I plunge fearlessly into the abyss: > >What is the difference between an AC Voltmeter and a Digital >Voltmeter? The APR manual recommends the Fluke 77 as the preferred >Digital Voltmeter. But the current model Fluke 77 is referred to by >Fluke as a "multimeter." It appears that a multimeter can measure >either AC or DC current. Does a "multimeter" combine the functions >of an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? If not, what should I >be looking for in terms of an AC Voltmeter, assuming the Fluke 77 is >the preferred "Digital Voltmeter"? > >Thank you once again for your help! > >Paul > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were >first > > released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those >service- > > trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a >severe > > thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around > > like a leaf in the wind. > > > > I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, > > cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal >generator. > > An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and >calibrating > > the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is > > not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something >on > > the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > > > > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > > > > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken >in > > > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The >unit > > and > > > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was >in > > > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at >Universal > > > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > > > > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > > > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > > > > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section > > 6.2 > > > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense > > to > > > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > > > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > > > > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are > > recommended? > > > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > > > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > > > > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to > > work > > > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > > > > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in > > general > > > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > > > > > "Required" > > > > > > Demagnetizer; > > > AC voltmeter; > > > signal generator; > > > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > > > > > "Optional" > > > > > > oscilloscope; > > > digital voltmeter; > > > logic probe flutter meter > > > > > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > > > > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > > > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > > > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > > > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > > > > > rack gauge; > > > zenith block; > > > tentelometer; > > > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > > > roller guide alignment tool; > > > time code decoder box; > > > center track time code head gauge; > > > brake torque hub; > > > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #406 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:13 pm Subject: AC Voltmeters ladewd Offline Send Email I use a HP 400FL and a Sennheiser (can't rmemeber the model number) when I need an AC voltmeter. I've seen some pretty nice things on ebay occasionally. A few months back, I saw a Sound Technology tape recorder analyzer for about $300. It always pays to look there. Once you've used a dial type meter for audio, you'll never use the digital stuff again. I use a Fluke 77 for a multimeter, but I would never try to use it for measuring audio levels. I have a Beckman digital multimeter that can read AC RMS, but I never use it in that manner. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #407 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:15 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "wolfbob" wrote: > realize that decks that have servo controlled reel motors cannot be set > properly with a fish scale as they must be set with tape running. This > includes the APR 500x series I think. Good point. At best you'd be approximating. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #408 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:55 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Not to worry... everyone has to start somewhere.....! From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@...] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:02 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted Thank you so much, everyone, for the excellent advice/information. You fellows are amazing. Your knowledge is, um, a little intimidating, yet your manner is not. I appreciate that a great deal. Okay, that said, I am about to (further?) expose my gross ignorance. I plunge fearlessly into the abyss: What is the difference between an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? The APR manual recommends the Fluke 77 as the preferred Digital Voltmeter. But the current model Fluke 77 is referred to by Fluke as a "multimeter." It appears that a multimeter can measure either AC or DC current. Does a "multimeter" combine the functions of an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? If not, what should I be looking for in terms of an AC Voltmeter, assuming the Fluke 77 is the preferred "Digital Voltmeter"? Thank you once again for your help! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were first > released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those service- > trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a severe > thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around > like a leaf in the wind. > > I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, > cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal generator. > An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and calibrating > the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is > not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something on > the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken in > > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The unit > and > > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was in > > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at Universal > > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section > 6.2 > > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense > to > > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are > recommended? > > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to > work > > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in > general > > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > > > "Required" > > > > Demagnetizer; > > AC voltmeter; > > signal generator; > > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > > > "Optional" > > > > oscilloscope; > > digital voltmeter; > > logic probe flutter meter > > > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > > > rack gauge; > > zenith block; > > tentelometer; > > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > > roller guide alignment tool; > > time code decoder box; > > center track time code head gauge; > > brake torque hub; > > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #409 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:09 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email On the JH machines my habit was to replace the tin plated molex connectors with the gold plated ones, although the grease idea isn't bad. Does seem to attract dirt though... Replacing the molexes is a hassle to do, but once done that is the end of such problems. The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 2:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted In a message dated 10/28/2004 2:33:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: I agree with Cary on this one.. the APR machines aren't victims of bad Molex connectors, terrible LM741 OP amps, and generator-type reel tachometers like the JH machines. If no one fiddles with the APR tension adjustments they are pretty stable, unless components are changed or other repairs made. Well, the LM741's can be replaced and while the Molex connectors are a pain in the ass, adding die-electric grease (aka, spark plug grease) to them cures better then 90% of the problems. If no-one messes with the tension and transport stuff a JH-24 is a stable machine too. Either way, a transport alignemnt should be checked and done at least once every six months. -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #410 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:19 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..one must remember the termination impedance situation for the meter Vs. the impedance of the device connected to get the correct readings.....regardless of what type of meter used. I use Audio Precision measuring equipment myself, but use hand-held Fluke for quick readings. Most people don't care about .001dbm resolution, after all. ----> Is it time for the confusing discussion about db, dbm, dbv, and dbu yet ...? <---- Scott From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:58 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted Hi, Paul, Digital multimeters all read AC voltage. I'm not sure of the Fluke 77, but it may have also had decibel readings (which are just calculations off the voltage readings, really, but they make alignments a bit easier). The 77 is still available but doesn't appear to have a dB scale. I'd opt for one of the true RMS meters. The 187/189 have true RMS measurements and a dB scale. I don't know the difference between the two. Fluke is about the best. Meterman which used to be Wavetek may offer more value for money. I have a Fluke clamp ammeter and a Wavetek 27XT digital multimeter (no dB, not rms). I have other meters for rms. The Fluke clamp is a true RMS meter. http://www.fluke.com http://www.metermantesttools.com/mmusen/home/default.htm And a dealer who will give you a free multimeter if you ask on orders over some reasonable amount. I've bought enough over time to get three of the free meters. They're not bad (esp. for the price). http://www.web-tronics.com/ Who has a 6x3x1.5 foot cabinet full of test equipment. Cheers, Richard At 06:02 PM 2004/10/29 +0000, you wrote: >Thank you so much, everyone, for the excellent advice/information. >You fellows are amazing. Your knowledge is, um, a little >intimidating, yet your manner is not. I appreciate that a great >deal. > >Okay, that said, I am about to (further?) expose my gross >ignorance. I plunge fearlessly into the abyss: > >What is the difference between an AC Voltmeter and a Digital >Voltmeter? The APR manual recommends the Fluke 77 as the preferred >Digital Voltmeter. But the current model Fluke 77 is referred to by >Fluke as a "multimeter." It appears that a multimeter can measure >either AC or DC current. Does a "multimeter" combine the functions >of an AC Voltmeter and a Digital Voltmeter? If not, what should I >be looking for in terms of an AC Voltmeter, assuming the Fluke 77 is >the preferred "Digital Voltmeter"? > >Thank you once again for your help! > >Paul > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > I worked on a few APR-24s at Century 3 when the machines were >first > > released. It was a really nice facility. It was one of those >service- > > trips-from-hell though. I remember flying out of Orlando in a >severe > > thunderstorm in a two engine puddle jumper and being blown around > > like a leaf in the wind. > > > > I would definitely get some alignment tapes, a good demagnetizer, > > cleaning solution, an oscilloscope, multimeter and signal >generator. > > An AC voltmeter is necessary for aligning I/O levels and >calibrating > > the meters. Everything else on your list, while nice to have, is > > not necessary for normal maintenance. If I had to get something >on > > the extended list first, I would try to find a used tentelometer. > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "paulmcculloh" wrote: > > > > > > Hello! So glad this group exists! > > > > > > What testing/maintenance/calibration procedures should be taken >in > > > connection with a newly-acquired APR 5003V (S/N 10223)? The >unit > > and > > > heads appear to be in excellent condition, and the recorder was >in > > > use in a very large professional studio (Century III at >Universal > > > Studios in Florida) until very recently. > > > > > > Of these, which should I expect to handle myself, and for which > > > should I turn to a qualified technician? > > > > > > Of the maintenance/calibration/cleaning tools listed in Section > > 6.2 > > > of the manual (please see list, below), which does it make sense > > to > > > actually own, as opposed to spending that money instead on a > > > professional who can perform the required maintenance? > > > > > > Of those tools I should acquire, what make/models are > > recommended? > > > (Some of the models listed in the manual appear to be no longer > > > available or have been replaced by new models.) > > > > > > Lastly, does anyone know, offhand, of a technican qualified to > > work > > > on the APR 5003V in the Seattle, Washington area? > > > > > > Any advice on other aspects of this machine or ownership in > > general > > > is also very welcome. Thank you for your help! > > > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > 6.2.1/.2 Test Equipment and Service Items > > > > > > "Required" > > > > > > Demagnetizer; > > > AC voltmeter; > > > signal generator; > > > appropriate cleaning chemicals/supplies > > > > > > "Optional" > > > > > > oscilloscope; > > > digital voltmeter; > > > logic probe flutter meter > > > > > > > 6.2.3 MRL Test Tapes > > > > > > 7.5 ips NAB or IEC; > > > 15 ips NAB or IEC; > > > 30 ips AES (1/4") > > > > > > > 6.2.4 Technician Tools > > > > > > rack gauge; > > > zenith block; > > > tentelometer; > > > spring scale (1kg and 5kg); > > > roller guide alignment tool; > > > time code decoder box; > > > center track time code head gauge; > > > brake torque hub; > > > various nutdrivers, hexdrivers and screwdrivers > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #411 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:25 pm Subject: RE: AC Voltmeters ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..for an all-in-one piece of recorder test equipment, one could do much worse than the Sound Technology unit. Like Cary, I find that for analog recorders, it can be easier to use mechanical meters. The output of an analog recorder is always varying a little, and it is easier to see the 'average' reading on a mechanical meter because of the mechanical damping. I'm so used to the digital stuff it doesn't matter to me any more, but I've got high-end test gear, and setting test parameters that basically do the same thing as the mechanical damping is easy. A hand held meter isn't going to be as helpful. From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 9:14 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] AC Voltmeters I use a HP 400FL and a Sennheiser (can't rmemeber the model number) when I need an AC voltmeter. I've seen some pretty nice things on ebay occasionally. A few months back, I saw a Sound Technology tape recorder analyzer for about $300. It always pays to look there. Once you've used a dial type meter for audio, you'll never use the digital stuff again. I use a Fluke 77 for a multimeter, but I would never try to use it for measuring audio levels. I have a Beckman digital multimeter that can read AC RMS, but I never use it in that manner. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #412 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Mon Nov 1, 2004 9:23 am Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 10/31/2004 7:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. Oooooh. That's interesting. Nobody has ever mentioned removing the offset pots before. My deck had all the red sockets replaced before I got it and I don't think the 714's are there anymore either. I remember replacing a bunch of chips on the torque board with TL071's. Do you know which IC #'s need to be replaced? -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #413 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Nov 1, 2004 5:11 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thank you, again, everyone, for your extremely helpful advice. Today's Lesson in Analog Recording 101: Tape... Am I correct in understanding that 15 ips is considered the "best" speed for mastering? I've read conflicting opinions, but there appears to be some agreement that although 30 ips in theory results in a higher quality recording, in reality there is a loss in the (lower?) end at this speed, such that 15 ips turns out to be the best compromise?? Which is preface to my second question: which MRL tape should I purchase? I will initially be using BASF SM911. Assuming I will record at 15 ips, the MRL website articles specify a Reference Fluxivity for BASF SM911 of 355 nWb/m, for which one would use MRL Multifrequency tapes #21J403 (IEC) and #21J405 (NAB). *However,* (the plot thickens...) the APR manual specifies MRL tapes #21J205 (NAB) and #21J303(IEC) (without regard to tape brand or type). MRL #21J303 (IEC) is G320 nWb/m. The USRecording website then pipes up with the comment, "Use 250 nWb/m tapes for Quantegy 406, 407, 478 and 480. Use 355 nWb/m for Quantegy 456, 499 and GP9. For 499 and GP9 set repro level to -3 on meter." Then there's the issue of whether to utilize the NAB standard, the IEC standard, or some other standard, such as that outlined in the McKnight/Kendall article "Proposed Equalization For 15 in/s Studio Master Recording on High-output Low-noise Tapes," for which MRL appears to sell Multifrequency tapes... (whew!) Recommendations? Oxygen? thank you! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, Paul, > > Century 3 in Orlando was a fine facility -- when I worked for National > TeleConsultants, I think we did some work there and I had a tour when I was > working on a different project on the lot. > > My suggestion is if it ain't broke don't fix it. These machines hold up > well. Clean and demag the machine, then use your MRL test tape to check it > out and tell us what you can't get right. > > I usually set EQ at the 8kHz azimuth tone and the RGC at the 16kHz azimuth > tone and then check the response of the freq tones. Usually within a half > dB or so (plus and minus) from 250-20K. > > Enjoy the machine! > > Cheers, > > Richard > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #414 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 1, 2004 6:55 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email May I ask what type of music or program material you plan on recording (mostly) ? This will affect what would be the 'best' (everyone has an opinion !!) reference level to use. As a general rule, program material with higher average levels (I.E. highly compressed or with little real dynamic range) often does well at higher flux levels. Program materials that are highly dynamic (say, classical recordings) usually do better at lower flux reference levels. (admittedly everyone else may not share this view....) What you are trying to achieve is a compromise between a LOT of factors, not the least of which is the headroom of the tape recorder electronics, the amount of distortion you can live with (and what type and at what frequency), how much noise you can accept, and much more. I'm sure we can all help you, but there isn't really a one size fits all. The same is true with tape speed, and again, the type of recordings you want to make do make a difference in the choice you might make. From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:12 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted Thank you, again, everyone, for your extremely helpful advice. Today's Lesson in Analog Recording 101: Tape... Am I correct in understanding that 15 ips is considered the "best" speed for mastering? I've read conflicting opinions, but there appears to be some agreement that although 30 ips in theory results in a higher quality recording, in reality there is a loss in the (lower?) end at this speed, such that 15 ips turns out to be the best compromise?? Which is preface to my second question: which MRL tape should I purchase? I will initially be using BASF SM911. Assuming I will record at 15 ips, the MRL website articles specify a Reference Fluxivity for BASF SM911 of 355 nWb/m, for which one would use MRL Multifrequency tapes #21J403 (IEC) and #21J405 (NAB). *However,* (the plot thickens...) the APR manual specifies MRL tapes #21J205 (NAB) and #21J303(IEC) (without regard to tape brand or type). MRL #21J303 (IEC) is G320 nWb/m. The USRecording website then pipes up with the comment, "Use 250 nWb/m tapes for Quantegy 406, 407, 478 and 480. Use 355 nWb/m for Quantegy 456, 499 and GP9. For 499 and GP9 set repro level to -3 on meter." Then there's the issue of whether to utilize the NAB standard, the IEC standard, or some other standard, such as that outlined in the McKnight/Kendall article "Proposed Equalization For 15 in/s Studio Master Recording on High-output Low-noise Tapes," for which MRL appears to sell Multifrequency tapes... (whew!) Recommendations? Oxygen? thank you! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, Paul, > > Century 3 in Orlando was a fine facility -- when I worked for National > TeleConsultants, I think we did some work there and I had a tour when I was > working on a different project on the lot. > > My suggestion is if it ain't broke don't fix it. These machines hold up > well. Clean and demag the machine, then use your MRL test tape to check it > out and tell us what you can't get right. > > I usually set EQ at the 8kHz azimuth tone and the RGC at the 16kHz azimuth > tone and then check the response of the freq tones. Usually within a half > dB or so (plus and minus) from 250-20K. > > Enjoy the machine! > > Cheers, > > Richard > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #415 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Nov 1, 2004 9:00 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Hi Scott, Thanks very much for your reply. I expect to be recording classical approximately 1/4-1/3 of the time and "rock" the remaining 3/4-2/3 of the time. The rock will tend to have a wider dynamic range than is typical. It will also include the use of sound effects and acoustic instruments a great deal. Thank you! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > May I ask what type of music or program material you plan on recording > (mostly) ? This will affect what would be the 'best' (everyone has an > opinion !!) reference level to use. As a general rule, program material > with higher average levels (I.E. highly compressed or with little real > dynamic range) often does well at higher flux levels. Program materials > that are highly dynamic (say, classical recordings) usually do better at > lower flux reference levels. (admittedly everyone else may not share > this view....) What you are trying to achieve is a compromise between a > LOT of factors, not the least of which is the headroom of the tape > recorder electronics, the amount of distortion you can live with (and > what type and at what frequency), how much noise you can accept, and > much more. I'm sure we can all help you, but there isn't really a one > size fits all. > > The same is true with tape speed, and again, the type of recordings you > want to make do make a difference in the choice you might make. > > ________________________________ > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:12 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted > > > > Thank you, again, everyone, for your extremely helpful advice. > > Today's Lesson in Analog Recording 101: Tape... > > Am I correct in understanding that 15 ips is considered the "best" > speed for mastering? I've read conflicting opinions, but there > appears to be some agreement that although 30 ips in theory results > in a higher quality recording, in reality there is a loss in the > (lower?) end at this speed, such that 15 ips turns out to be the > best compromise?? > > Which is preface to my second question: which MRL tape should I > purchase? I will initially be using BASF SM911. Assuming I will > record at 15 ips, the MRL website articles specify a Reference > Fluxivity for BASF SM911 of 355 nWb/m, for which one would use MRL > Multifrequency tapes #21J403 (IEC) and #21J405 (NAB). *However,* > (the plot thickens...) the APR manual specifies MRL tapes #21J205 > (NAB) and #21J303(IEC) (without regard to tape brand or type). MRL > #21J303 (IEC) is G320 nWb/m. The USRecording website then pipes up > with the comment, "Use 250 nWb/m tapes for Quantegy 406, 407, 478 > and 480. Use 355 nWb/m for Quantegy 456, 499 and GP9. For 499 and > GP9 set repro level to -3 on meter." > > Then there's the issue of whether to utilize the NAB standard, the > IEC standard, or some other standard, such as that outlined in the > McKnight/Kendall article "Proposed Equalization For 15 in/s Studio > Master Recording on High-output Low-noise Tapes," for which MRL > appears to sell Multifrequency tapes... > > (whew!) > > Recommendations? Oxygen? > > thank you! > > Paul > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #416 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 1, 2004 9:33 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email My personal opinion would be to use 355nw/m for rock and 250nw/m for full range classical. You can get any record flux level you need from any test tape by adding or subtracting the correct number of DB from whatever 'your' reference tape is. If you want a single-flux compromise, buy the 355nw/m tape and use it for both, and USE YOUR EARS do decide how hot on the machine meters to record. In the end, it always comes down to the sound quality. Personally I always use 250 nw/m test tapes out of habit, and then subtract the number of DB the test tape is lower than the desired reference point. You then set the playback of the test tape on the machine meters accordingly. There isn't any reason you need to do that... it just means I don't have to buy so many MRL's... Tapes like GP9 and 499 exhibit a good deal of tape compression on the audio before the distortion becomes obnoxious, while the older formulations tend to sound nasty as soon as you run out of headroom on the tape. The result for some folks is that they will hit, say, 499 very hard to get the tape compression for rock in particular. 456 just gets nasty hit too hard. Staying away from very hot record flux levels will help you use all the dynamic range available for classical music, at the cost of a little more tape hiss. For rock, well, bang away if you like the sound... Personally I like 30ips a lot, but it is true that for the wonderful top end you gain you lose gain at the lowest frequency. Personal choice on my part, and I can see the other point of view (15 ips always) as well. Hope this helps... any other comments out there guys (and girls) ? From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted Hi Scott, Thanks very much for your reply. I expect to be recording classical approximately 1/4-1/3 of the time and "rock" the remaining 3/4-2/3 of the time. The rock will tend to have a wider dynamic range than is typical. It will also include the use of sound effects and acoustic instruments a great deal. Thank you! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > May I ask what type of music or program material you plan on recording > (mostly) ? This will affect what would be the 'best' (everyone has an > opinion !!) reference level to use. As a general rule, program material > with higher average levels (I.E. highly compressed or with little real > dynamic range) often does well at higher flux levels. Program materials > that are highly dynamic (say, classical recordings) usually do better at > lower flux reference levels. (admittedly everyone else may not share > this view....) What you are trying to achieve is a compromise between a > LOT of factors, not the least of which is the headroom of the tape > recorder electronics, the amount of distortion you can live with (and > what type and at what frequency), how much noise you can accept, and > much more. I'm sure we can all help you, but there isn't really a one > size fits all. > > The same is true with tape speed, and again, the type of recordings you > want to make do make a difference in the choice you might make. > > ________________________________ > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 4:12 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted > > > > Thank you, again, everyone, for your extremely helpful advice. > > Today's Lesson in Analog Recording 101: Tape... > > Am I correct in understanding that 15 ips is considered the "best" > speed for mastering? I've read conflicting opinions, but there > appears to be some agreement that although 30 ips in theory results > in a higher quality recording, in reality there is a loss in the > (lower?) end at this speed, such that 15 ips turns out to be the > best compromise?? > > Which is preface to my second question: which MRL tape should I > purchase? I will initially be using BASF SM911. Assuming I will > record at 15 ips, the MRL website articles specify a Reference > Fluxivity for BASF SM911 of 355 nWb/m, for which one would use MRL > Multifrequency tapes #21J403 (IEC) and #21J405 (NAB). *However,* > (the plot thickens...) the APR manual specifies MRL tapes #21J205 > (NAB) and #21J303(IEC) (without regard to tape brand or type). MRL > #21J303 (IEC) is G320 nWb/m. The USRecording website then pipes up > with the comment, "Use 250 nWb/m tapes for Quantegy 406, 407, 478 > and 480. Use 355 nWb/m for Quantegy 456, 499 and GP9. For 499 and > GP9 set repro level to -3 on meter." > > Then there's the issue of whether to utilize the NAB standard, the > IEC standard, or some other standard, such as that outlined in the > McKnight/Kendall article "Proposed Equalization For 15 in/s Studio > Master Recording on High-output Low-noise Tapes," for which MRL > appears to sell Multifrequency tapes... > > (whew!) > > Recommendations? Oxygen? > > thank you! > > Paul > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #417 From: "analogokc" Date: Tue Nov 2, 2004 1:57 am Subject: Re: AC Voltmeters analogokc Offline Send Email I, too, prefer analog (mechanical) metering when doing stuff like frequency response checks. I have an ancient, but "still working" Amber 3500 test set for that purpose. On potential "gotcha" with lower-priced digital meters is their lack of high frequency response. Many roll off above 400 Hz (the highest frequency commonly encountered in industrial AC power distribution systems), so they are useless for audio measurements. In addition, many of the inexpensive digital meters roll off below 50 Hz, the lowest commonly found frequency in AC power systems. Typically, the "true RMS" digimeters have a frequency response extending well outside of the audio band. Bri --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I use a HP 400FL and a Sennheiser (can't rmemeber the model number) > when I need an AC voltmeter. I've seen some pretty nice things on > ebay occasionally. A few months back, I saw a Sound Technology tape > recorder analyzer for about $300. It always pays to look there. > Once you've used a dial type meter for audio, you'll never use the > digital stuff again. I use a Fluke 77 for a multimeter, but I would > never try to use it for measuring audio levels. I have a Beckman > digital multimeter that can read AC RMS, but I never use it in that > manner. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #418 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Nov 2, 2004 11:33 am Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Jay, Without a manual in my hands, no, but over this coming weekend I'm making a gratis service trip to a studio with a JH-24 and 2 JH-110 machines and I'll look it up for you. It was replacing all LM741's on the torque board, but not with TLO71's. TLO71's are bi-FET op amps that I wouldn't think would be good choices for replacements of the LM741's, which are not bi-FET chips. The whole idea is to use chips that have internally compensated offsets that track with temperature and have naturally very low offsets. Then there is no reason to adjust offsets, as they are low and stable. The offset adjust circuitry actually becomes a liability then. Other than that, having pin-for-pin compatibility with the 741's helps. I can't remember what replacement I used to use, but if there is enough interest on the forum I can figure it out again. As I recall, it was a direct replacement for the 741's, and only required a single capacitor soldered directly to the back side of the PCB on the IC socket pins to prevent it from oscillating under very severe RFI conditions. (done for good engineering practice more than anything else....) There is a whole chain of 741's in the circuits leading up to the analog math ICs, and the math chip(s), being analog, can't do the tension math correctly if an offset is present. (These are the chips with the gold tops, the part number escapes me right now.) Murphy's law says all the 741 offsets will add together in one direction rather than tend to cancel each other out, so there you have the problem. 741's drift like crazy with temperature, and that doesn't help. APR's actually do all the math for tensions in the digital world, not the analog world like the JH machines, so this sort of thing doesn't apply to the APR. For those people out there with stock analog torque boards on JH products, I would recommend setting the offsets not using the factory supplied test point, but the input terminal of each of the two math chips. This is where it really matters anyway, not at the first 741 chip where the factory test point is. I think it was pin 7 or pin 9 of the math chips that was the input, but this weekend I'll look at a schematic and report back to the forum. Anyone with those 'red' plastic IC sockets on their machine.... GET RID OF 'EM !!! The best replacements are of the machine-pin types. Cost a little more, but that then is the end of that particular problem. Scott From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 10/31/2004 7:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. Oooooh. That's interesting. Nobody has ever mentioned removing the offset pots before. My deck had all the red sockets replaced before I got it and I don't think the 714's are there anymore either. I remember replacing a bunch of chips on the torque board with TL071's. Do you know which IC #'s need to be replaced? -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #419 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 11:08 pm Subject: EQ Choices richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, again, Paul, Just a thought... If your tapes will never become part of an archive (can you guarantee it?), then use any EQ you want. If you think they may end up needing to be transferred again later by people unknown to you then my choices for EQ if you're in North America would be: (1) NAB (2) NAB (3) IEC with VERY DISTINCT MARKINGS (4) IEC with less distinct markings (5) IEC with blurry markings .... (945) Anything else I would suspect that about 10% of the archivists will know the difference between NAB and IEC. Good luck! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #420 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 11:38 pm Subject: RE: EQ Choices ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..I had wondered where he was located.... might make a different choice in the UK or EU, don't you think ...? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:09 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] EQ Choices Hi, again, Paul, Just a thought... If your tapes will never become part of an archive (can you guarantee it?), then use any EQ you want. If you think they may end up needing to be transferred again later by people unknown to you then my choices for EQ if you're in North America would be: (1) NAB (2) NAB (3) IEC with VERY DISTINCT MARKINGS (4) IEC with less distinct markings (5) IEC with blurry markings .... (945) Anything else I would suspect that about 10% of the archivists will know the difference between NAB and IEC. Good luck! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #421 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Thu Nov 4, 2004 1:54 am Subject: re: EQ Choices paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and Richard. I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as Jay McKnight of MRL believes?: "It has long been realized that the high-frequency noise spectrum level of [the NAB flux-frequency characteristic] is too high to reproduce the full dynamic range of a symphony orchestra." -"Master- tape Equalization Revisited" "The present 15 in/s NAB eq was designed by Frank Lennert, at Ampex...in 1948 or 1949...for use with the standard professional tape of the day, 3M 111. ...By the mid-to-late 1960s, the wavelength response of the tape had improved so much that a high-frequency **cut** is necessary to get the standard flux on the tape, and thereby flat overall response. This makes the recording equalizer hard to design, inflexible (hard to get flat for different tapes), and terrible for utilization of the tape -- there's way too much HF "overhead" room, and way too much noise to go with it." -"Tape Recording Equalization Fundamentals and 15 in/s Equalizations" McKnight suggests that "[the] Transition frequency of [the IEC Standard] just about matches the tape losses, and is the best you can do if you want to use an internationally-standardized eq." Unfortunately, I have no experience/context within which to place McKnight's comments, e.g., perhaps once tape EQ is set, the many other choices/variables involved render the setting not as critical as McKnight would have us believe?? On the other hand, if he is correct, and the tape EQ is the foundation of the recording, it would seem that you'd want to use the NAB standard only when absolutely necessary... ?? thank you, Paul p.s. I'm writing from Seattle, Washington Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #422 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 4, 2004 8:24 am Subject: RE: re: EQ Choices ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of interchangeability, in a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems to get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@...] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and Richard. I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as Jay McKnight of MRL believes?: "It has long been realized that the high-frequency noise spectrum level of [the NAB flux-frequency characteristic] is too high to reproduce the full dynamic range of a symphony orchestra." -"Master- tape Equalization Revisited" "The present 15 in/s NAB eq was designed by Frank Lennert, at Ampex...in 1948 or 1949...for use with the standard professional tape of the day, 3M 111. ...By the mid-to-late 1960s, the wavelength response of the tape had improved so much that a high-frequency **cut** is necessary to get the standard flux on the tape, and thereby flat overall response. This makes the recording equalizer hard to design, inflexible (hard to get flat for different tapes), and terrible for utilization of the tape -- there's way too much HF "overhead" room, and way too much noise to go with it." -"Tape Recording Equalization Fundamentals and 15 in/s Equalizations" McKnight suggests that "[the] Transition frequency of [the IEC Standard] just about matches the tape losses, and is the best you can do if you want to use an internationally-standardized eq." Unfortunately, I have no experience/context within which to place McKnight's comments, e.g., perhaps once tape EQ is set, the many other choices/variables involved render the setting not as critical as McKnight would have us believe?? On the other hand, if he is correct, and the tape EQ is the foundation of the recording, it would seem that you'd want to use the NAB standard only when absolutely necessary... ?? thank you, Paul p.s. I'm writing from Seattle, Washington Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #423 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 4:52 am Subject: Re: EQ Choices paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up with a tape and little information. Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. Thank you for your guidance! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of interchangeability, in > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems to > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > ________________________________ > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > Richard. > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #424 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 5:05 am Subject: EQ Choices eddieaudio Offline Send Email Jay is right! I'm jumping in the middle here, assuming someone wants to archive to analog using the 'best possible" options. Surely, to take advantage of the reduced noise of IEC as well as apply a curve that takes max advantage of modern tape formulations is a plus. For whatever reason, most likely the sheer number of american users through the seventies, there was never an inclination to make those machines obsolete by switching to a "new EQ standard." Even into the 80's CBS radio was still using ampex 300 / 350 machines, for example. So, I'm another IEC supporter. eddie ciletti At 12:54 AM 11/4/2004, you wrote: Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and Richard. I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as Jay McKnight of MRL believes?: "It has long been realized that the high-frequency noise spectrum level of [the NAB flux-frequency characteristic] is too high to reproduce the full dynamic range of a symphony orchestra." -"Master- tape Equalization Revisited" "The present 15 in/s NAB eq was designed by Frank Lennert, at Ampex...in 1948 or 1949...for use with the standard professional tape of the day, 3M 111. ...By the mid-to-late 1960s, the wavelength response of the tape had improved so much that a high-frequency **cut** is necessary to get the standard flux on the tape, and thereby flat overall response. This makes the recording equalizer hard to design, inflexible (hard to get flat for different tapes), and terrible for utilization of the tape -- there's way too much HF "overhead" room, and way too much noise to go with it." -"Tape Recording Equalization Fundamentals and 15 in/s Equalizations" McKnight suggests that "[the] Transition frequency of [the IEC Standard] just about matches the tape losses, and is the best you can do if you want to use an internationally-standardized eq." Unfortunately, I have no experience/context within which to place McKnight's comments, e.g., perhaps once tape EQ is set, the many other choices/variables involved render the setting not as critical as McKnight would have us believe?? On the other hand, if he is correct, and the tape EQ is the foundation of the recording, it would seem that you'd want to use the NAB standard only when absolutely necessary... ?? thank you, Paul p.s. I'm writing from Seattle, Washington Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #425 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 8:55 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices richardlhess Offline Send Email Paul, I agree with Jay about the current usefulness of the NAB EQ standard, but my fear is starting to use something different in the twilight years of analog magnetic tape. Using IEC would be OK if it were very clearly marked on the box and on the reel and ideally on the slate. Putting tones on the tape helps a lot--put them on the tape during the recording session using the same machine. We have as an example the CD of "Man of LaMancha"-- the off-Broadway show that was a real success in the late 1960s/early 1970s time frame being released from what may have been an AME master without AME EQ!!!! Nails-on-blackboard screechy. Is one error a reason not to do something? NO! But it requires very careful consideration and analyzing the whole path. Cheers, Richard At 09:52 AM 2004/11/05 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. > >And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives >at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is >thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up >with a tape and little information. > >Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. > >Thank you for your guidance! > >Paul > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of >interchangeability, in > > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems >to > > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > > Richard. > > > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #426 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices allegrosound Offline Send Email Suggestion: Splice in some paper leader and mark with compatible red marker. Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Paul, I agree with Jay about the current usefulness of the NAB EQ standard, but my fear is starting to use something different in the twilight years of analog magnetic tape. Using IEC would be OK if it were very clearly marked on the box and on the reel and ideally on the slate. Putting tones on the tape helps a lot--put them on the tape during the recording session using the same machine. We have as an example the CD of "Man of LaMancha"-- the off-Broadway show that was a real success in the late 1960s/early 1970s time frame being released from what may have been an AME master without AME EQ!!!! Nails-on-blackboard screechy. Is one error a reason not to do something? NO! But it requires very careful consideration and analyzing the whole path. Cheers, Richard At 09:52 AM 2004/11/05 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. > >And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives >at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is >thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up >with a tape and little information. > >Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. > >Thank you for your guidance! > >Paul > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of >interchangeability, in > > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems >to > > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > > Richard. > > > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #427 From: HppyEndng@... Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 4:06 pm Subject: dumpster machines HppyEndng@... Send Email Hey Richard ! Can any of your recent haul make its way to southern calif for a price? dennis Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #428 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 9:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices eddieaudio Offline Send Email The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. ec At 07:55 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: Paul, I agree with Jay about the current usefulness of the NAB EQ standard, but my fear is starting to use something different in the twilight years of analog magnetic tape. Using IEC would be OK if it were very clearly marked on the box and on the reel and ideally on the slate. Putting tones on the tape helps a lot--put them on the tape during the recording session using the same machine. We have as an example the CD of "Man of LaMancha"-- the off-Broadway show that was a real success in the late 1960s/early 1970s time frame being released from what may have been an AME master without AME EQ!!!! Nails-on-blackboard screechy. Is one error a reason not to do something? NO! But it requires very careful consideration and analyzing the whole path. Cheers, Richard At 09:52 AM 2004/11/05 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. > >And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives >at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is >thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up >with a tape and little information. > >Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. > >Thank you for your guidance! > >Paul > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of >interchangeability, in > > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems >to > > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > > Richard. > > > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #429 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 9:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices richardlhess Offline Send Email At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #430 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Nov 5, 2004 10:08 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices eddieaudio Offline Send Email Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? At 08:49 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #431 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 2:17 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:08 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? I posted a message over on the Studer list where I estimated that we needed to run 13,000 tape recorders 8-hours per day (365 days a year) for 10 years to transfer what may need to be transferred...that's the size of the problem. Certainly there are those of us who listen and look at tones (and don't always trust them), but those of us who do that can't do it all. Yes, training is needed. Watch this space for more information on that--I'm thinking of running seminars for archivists. Cheers, Richard At 08:49 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #432 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 3:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices allegrosound Offline Send Email suggestion: an excellent (and portable) reference for hearing what's really on the tape (no Martha, NS-10M's don't cut it) be Stax SR-007 Omega electrostatic "EarSpeakers" with SRM-007t true-balanced (no Phase-Inverter) direct-drive integrated TUBE amp; to hear it, is to want it ! http://www.yamasinc.com/Omega_007.htm Less$ alternative: pre-owned Stax Lambda Pro Signature with SRM-T1 direct-drive integrated TUBE amp (forget the solid-state ver!). re RecordEQ: if machine has 2.00mm NAB heads, you might want to use NAB RecordEQ; if machine has 2.75mm IEC heads, you might want to use IEC RecordEQ. Best regards, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 09:08 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? I posted a message over on the Studer list where I estimated that we needed to run 13,000 tape recorders 8-hours per day (365 days a year) for 10 years to transfer what may need to be transferred...that's the size of the problem. Certainly there are those of us who listen and look at tones (and don't always trust them), but those of us who do that can't do it all. Yes, training is needed. Watch this space for more information on that--I'm thinking of running seminars for archivists. Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #433 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 4:14 pm Subject: Broken 5003v - suggestions sought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, folks. So my current stable of APRs (and none are for sale) is: 3-5003V working 1-5003V won't start up 1-5003 drop-shipped and dinged (parts) 5-5002 later models working 1-5002 early model working as "mold machine" 7-5002 later model carcasses in various states of cannibalization 1-5002 early version carcass That totals 19 and should keep me going for a very long time. Not all the machines came with head assemblies. Anyway, there is one 5003V that was working this summer, but now when I turn it on it doesn't go through power-on self test. I haven't begun to troubleshoot it, thinking I should ask the assembled wisdom here for advice. I'm wondering if the lithium battery would be a good place to start. I'm also wondering if the lithium battery could be replaced by a CR123 camera battery -- it's 3V. The reason I ask is if I can find a holder for one of these, it would be a great choice. They're available for $1.25 each in lots of 12 from www.surefire.com and are what powers Surefire's wonderful flashlights. I stock them by the half gross or so. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #434 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 6:06 pm Subject: Re: Broken 5003v - suggestions sought ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, I never tried anything other than recommended parts, so you're on your own as far as the battery is concerned. I don't see why it wouldn't work and is certainly a cheaper alternative. If the CPU is not starting up, its not the battery. I've seen more than a few XTAL's fail on the CPU boards. It usually occurs as a result of shock, so the move may have caused the issue. Use a scope and check for a clock on the CPU. I'm betting its not running. You probably have an extra XTAL on your junk machines. I'm really going back a while here, so things are a bit foggy, I think a 5002 needs a different XTAL than a 5003 on the very early units. I seem to remember there was a frequency difference between the two. I also remember it had something to do with Timecode timing. The frequency is marked on the side of the XTAL. Later models used the same XTAL. Don't quote me on this because its very hazy. Perhaps Scott remembers. I am currently undergoing a healing process trying to forget everything Sony. Unfortunately, that includes some of the useful stuff also . Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, folks. > > So my current stable of APRs (and none are for sale) is: > > 3-5003V working > 1-5003V won't start up > 1-5003 drop-shipped and dinged (parts) > 5-5002 later models working > 1-5002 early model working as "mold machine" > 7-5002 later model carcasses in various states of cannibalization > 1-5002 early version carcass > > That totals 19 and should keep me going for a very long time. Not all the > machines came with head assemblies. > > Anyway, there is one 5003V that was working this summer, but now when I > turn it on it doesn't go through power-on self test. > > I haven't begun to troubleshoot it, thinking I should ask the assembled > wisdom here for advice. > > I'm wondering if the lithium battery would be a good place to start. > > I'm also wondering if the lithium battery could be replaced by a CR123 > camera battery -- it's 3V. > > The reason I ask is if I can find a holder for one of these, it would be a > great choice. They're available for $1.25 each in lots of 12 from > www.surefire.com and are what powers Surefire's wonderful flashlights. I > stock them by the half gross or so. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #435 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 10:01 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices eddieaudio Offline Send Email So, what all is being backed up? (as if I had to ask) At 01:17 PM 11/6/2004, you wrote: At 09:08 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? I posted a message over on the Studer list where I estimated that we needed to run 13,000 tape recorders 8-hours per day (365 days a year) for 10 years to transfer what may need to be transferred...that's the size of the problem. Certainly there are those of us who listen and look at tones (and don't always trust them), but those of us who do that can't do it all. Yes, training is needed. Watch this space for more information on that--I'm thinking of running seminars for archivists. Cheers, Richard At 08:49 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #436 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 10:31 pm Subject: Re: Re: EQ Choices richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:01 PM 2004/11/06 -0600, you wrote: >So, what all is being backed up? (as if I had to ask) Well, institutional and private clients are paying me to essentially transfer oral histories. Archives contain a wide variety of tapes that arrive by various means in various formats. The goal is to provide both access and preservation copies. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #437 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 7:55 pm Subject: 8 APRs for sale in Chicago on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email Hey you guys...wanna APR (psst) For those of you who wanted me to share, here is an opportunity that might net better heads than mine. Some of you looking for machines should seriously get together. I might buy one good head assembly if you wish to sell (for about $250). ENJOY! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3760054976 They all seem to be 5003 or 5003V (not spec'd) Opening bid a grand. Here's the gist of it (quoting from the listing): 8 - Sony APR-5000 reel to reel tape machines (only 6 shown in the pic) 6 - Manuals 4 - Remote parts and cables 2 boxes of 1/4" tape (no reels, just pancakes) These items were tested about a year ago, the following is a list of findings according to serial # APR Sony 5000 Tape Machines SN 10314 – Will not turn on. Water dripped onto power supply 2. SN 21229 – Powers up but will not go into record mode. In Rew and FF the reel slips, but in Jog mode it is fine. SN 11739 – When in Rew/FF and play is pressed, instead of stop, the tape falls off of the reel. All other functions seem to work well. SN 10315 – Turns on but no indicator lights come on and no functions work. SN 11801 – Seems to work well. SN 21225 – Faulty tape break sensor, everything else works fine. SN 11740 – Works perfectly. SN 10413 – Works perfectly. The remotes have not been tested, they are missing the casing for them. Some have had modifications to them so I can't guarantee they work. This auction is for local pickup only, I may be willing to freight if all costs are covered by the winner. Please only serious inquiries. This item is from a professional recording studio. The studio was upgraded and we need to sell. please check our other auctions for great deals on gear. Because it is used all items are sold AS-IS. All Machines come with their own stand. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #438 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 9:15 pm Subject: Re: 8 APRs for sale in Chicago on eBay eddieaudio Offline Send Email Wow, what a great deal. If only I could get a great deal on some money! At 06:55 PM 11/7/2004, you wrote: Hey you guys...wanna APR (psst) For those of you who wanted me to share, here is an opportunity that might net better heads than mine. Some of you looking for machines should seriously get together. I might buy one good head assembly if you wish to sell (for about $250). ENJOY! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3760054976 They all seem to be 5003 or 5003V (not spec'd) Opening bid a grand. Here's the gist of it (quoting from the listing): 8 - Sony APR-5000 reel to reel tape machines (only 6 shown in the pic) 6 - Manuals 4 - Remote parts and cables 2 boxes of 1/4" tape (no reels, just pancakes) These items were tested about a year ago, the following is a list of findings according to serial # APR Sony 5000 Tape Machines SN 10314 – Will not turn on. Water dripped onto power supply 2. SN 21229 – Powers up but will not go into record mode. In Rew and FF the reel slips, but in Jog mode it is fine. SN 11739 – When in Rew/FF and play is pressed, instead of stop, the tape falls off of the reel. All other functions seem to work well. SN 10315 – Turns on but no indicator lights come on and no functions work. SN 11801 – Seems to work well. SN 21225 – Faulty tape break sensor, everything else works fine. SN 11740 – Works perfectly. SN 10413 – Works perfectly. The remotes have not been tested, they are missing the casing for them. Some have had modifications to them so I can't guarantee they work. This auction is for local pickup only, I may be willing to freight if all costs are covered by the winner. Please only serious inquiries. This item is from a professional recording studio. The studio was upgraded and we need to sell. please check our other auctions for great deals on gear. Because it is used all items are sold AS-IS. All Machines come with their own stand. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #439 From: Gary Louie Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 11:14 pm Subject: Re: 8 APRs for sale in Chicago on eBay louie@... Send Email I've been lurking around for a machine, and I'd go in if someone in Chicagoland can handle the deal and the price is right. Trouble is, I'm not on ebay or Paypal, and I sure as heck don't have room in my apartment for 8 machines! Said dealmaker would have to swing the whole operation, from bidding to payments to inspecting to shipping - for which I figure a cut/markup is due. It's hard to figure a value on those dud machines - could be simple, or not. I'd consider a flaky unit if the price were right and it was otherwise in decent shape, assuming I could probably fix it. On 11/7/04 4:55 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > Hey you guys...wanna APR (psst) For those of you who wanted me to share, > here is an opportunity that might net better heads than mine. Some of you > looking for machines should seriously get together. I might buy one good > head assembly if you wish to sell (for about $250). > > ENJOY! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3760054976 Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #440 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:40 pm Subject: RE: Re: EQ Choices ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Hummmm... not bad, not bad....hadn't thought of that possibility. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:07 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: EQ Choices Suggestion: Splice in some paper leader and mark with compatible red marker. Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Paul, I agree with Jay about the current usefulness of the NAB EQ standard, but my fear is starting to use something different in the twilight years of analog magnetic tape. Using IEC would be OK if it were very clearly marked on the box and on the reel and ideally on the slate. Putting tones on the tape helps a lot--put them on the tape during the recording session using the same machine. We have as an example the CD of "Man of LaMancha"-- the off-Broadway show that was a real success in the late 1960s/early 1970s time frame being released from what may have been an AME master without AME EQ!!!! Nails-on-blackboard screechy. Is one error a reason not to do something? NO! But it requires very careful consideration and analyzing the whole path. Cheers, Richard At 09:52 AM 2004/11/05 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. > >And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives >at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is >thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up >with a tape and little information. > >Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. > >Thank you for your guidance! > >Paul > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of >interchangeability, in > > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems >to > > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > > Richard. > > > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #441 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:51 pm Subject: RE: Re: EQ Choices ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..preaching to the choir here gents, I think !!! :>) From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:08 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: EQ Choices Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? At 08:49 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #442 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:57 pm Subject: RE: Re: EQ Choices ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ....save space for me, Richard. My background is more recording than archiving, but they are just different sides of the same coin. Treasures are lost daily, and it doesn't have to be that way, but time is running out..... I know about the trust issue with tones... I've seen too many people send tones that are unrelated to the recording they are with. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 1:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: EQ Choices At 09:08 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: Seems to me the training needed is to truly listen -- that is, stop the tape if it sounds screechy rather than get used to it. Perhaps what is needed is a sonic point of reference? I know that's a bag of worms, but, well -- do people ever bother with tones? listening in mono for phase issues? I posted a message over on the Studer list where I estimated that we needed to run 13,000 tape recorders 8-hours per day (365 days a year) for 10 years to transfer what may need to be transferred...that's the size of the problem. Certainly there are those of us who listen and look at tones (and don't always trust them), but those of us who do that can't do it all. Yes, training is needed. Watch this space for more information on that--I'm thinking of running seminars for archivists. Cheers, Richard At 08:49 PM 11/5/2004, you wrote: At 08:05 PM 2004/11/05 -0600, you wrote: The Man of LaMancha example is not unlike the Motown masters even if the latter were simply EQ'd for the media of the day -- worst case that can be fixed with EQ. Meanwhile, all of the "modern" tape machine typically have IEC / NAB switches / jumpers or enough range to adjust to a wide range of tones. Again, I am assuming someone is trying to archive with the least amount of artifacts. True, Eddie, The problem is knowledge and assumptions on the part of the people playing the tape. I'm working at trying to train archivists, but I'm one person. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #443 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 7:06 pm Subject: RE: Re: EQ Choices allegrosound Offline Send Email Besides marking EQ on the spliced-in paper leader, note Track-Config, Head-Config (if 2-trk, 2.00mm or 2.75mm; if 2.00mm, note TimeCode if ap), Speed, Machine, Date, Program. Leader between the head-tones and program is also useful. Rick@... Scott Phillips wrote: Hummmm... not bad, not bad....hadn't thought of that possibility. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:07 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: EQ Choices Suggestion: Splice in some paper leader and mark with compatible red marker. Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Paul, I agree with Jay about the current usefulness of the NAB EQ standard, but my fear is starting to use something different in the twilight years of analog magnetic tape. Using IEC would be OK if it were very clearly marked on the box and on the reel and ideally on the slate. Putting tones on the tape helps a lot--put them on the tape during the recording session using the same machine. We have as an example the CD of "Man of LaMancha"-- the off-Broadway show that was a real success in the late 1960s/early 1970s time frame being released from what may have been an AME master without AME EQ!!!! Nails-on-blackboard screechy. Is one error a reason not to do something? NO! But it requires very careful consideration and analyzing the whole path. Cheers, Richard At 09:52 AM 2004/11/05 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm... Okay, I get you. Very good point. That's very helpful. > >And it sounds like Richard Hess, with his focus on archiving, arrives >at the same conclusion and for the same reasons, although he is >thinking more about the person even further down the road who ends up >with a tape and little information. > >Good stuff. I will go order a test tape now. > >Thank you for your guidance! > >Paul > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Personally I agree with him.... but the issue of >interchangeability, in > > a practical sense, has me chose NAB unless I'm keeping the tapes in > > house only. If I lived in the EU I might choose differently. > > > > 'Poor' is relative in this context. If you can just about count on > > others who play your tape using the wrong eq standard, you haven't > > gained much of anything. I'd never record a mix or session without > > 'tones' to go with it, but they often don't get used by others ( > > ???!!!?) , and switching the machine to IEC when needed never seems >to > > get done either by the end user of the tape. It becomes a practical > > matter rather than the technical exercise is should be....go figure. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Paul McCulloh [mailto:pmc@s...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:55 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] re: EQ Choices > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your comments regarding tape EQ, Scott and > > Richard. > > > > I guess my question would be, Is the NAB standard really as poor as > > Jay McKnight of MRL believes? Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #444 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:04 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 10/31/2004 7:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. Oooooh. That's interesting. Nobody has ever mentioned removing the offset pots before. My deck had all the red sockets replaced before I got it and I don't think the 714's are there anymore either. I remember replacing a bunch of chips on the torque board with TL071's. Do you know which IC #'s need to be replaced? -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #445 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:39 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email IC #1,2,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,12,13, and 14, if you want to get rid of them all. If you have the original LM741 chips, use a 'scope if available to set the offset adjustments, otherwise a good VOM. Make absolutely sure the reels are NOT allowed to move during adjustment. I often tape the reel flanges to the sides of the head bridge to make sure they don't move even a little. Tape (or something) must be in the tape sensor. Then, with one test probe on a ground on the board (one side of those large capacitors near the offset adjustment pots is grounded, so that is handy), and the other probe on pin 9 of IC-3 (The left hand AD532) adjust the left hand offset adjustment for zero volts, or as close to it as possible. Repeat this for the right hand offset adjustment, using pin 9 of IC-7. (The right hand AD532). If you can't get very close to zero volts on both adjustments, one or more of the LM741's has excessive offset voltages and should be replaced. The only other cause of this is those durn 'red' IC sockets making poor contact with the IC pins. I wouldn't use the factory test point for these adjustments. The reason is that the factory test point has you adjusting for the offset of the first opamp after the reel motor tach. Because of the diodes (CR-2,3,5,6) there, this makes the reading toggle abruptly, making the exact setting nearly impossible. Making the adjustment at the factory test point helps (a little) with the idle arrest tensions but leaves the other 4 LM741's that are in the tension circuits feeding the AD532's with uncontrolled offsets. Since the 532's are doing analog math based on NOT having any offset voltage fed into them, they calculate the wrong tensions. Not good. The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 10/31/2004 7:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. Oooooh. That's interesting. Nobody has ever mentioned removing the offset pots before. My deck had all the red sockets replaced before I got it and I don't think the 714's are there anymore either. I remember replacing a bunch of chips on the torque board with TL071's. Do you know which IC #'s need to be replaced? -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #446 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:51 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Sorry ! This should have read IC #1,2,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,17,20,21,22,23,26,27,28, if you want to get rid of them all...!! From: Scott Phillips Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:40 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 IC #1,2,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,12,13, and 14, if you want to get rid of them all. If you have the original LM741 chips, use a 'scope if available to set the offset adjustments, otherwise a good VOM. Make absolutely sure the reels are NOT allowed to move during adjustment. I often tape the reel flanges to the sides of the head bridge to make sure they don't move even a little. Tape (or something) must be in the tape sensor. Then, with one test probe on a ground on the board (one side of those large capacitors near the offset adjustment pots is grounded, so that is handy), and the other probe on pin 9 of IC-3 (The left hand AD532) adjust the left hand offset adjustment for zero volts, or as close to it as possible. Repeat this for the right hand offset adjustment, using pin 9 of IC-7. (The right hand AD532). If you can't get very close to zero volts on both adjustments, one or more of the LM741's has excessive offset voltages and should be replaced. The only other cause of this is those durn 'red' IC sockets making poor contact with the IC pins. I wouldn't use the factory test point for these adjustments. The reason is that the factory test point has you adjusting for the offset of the first opamp after the reel motor tach. Because of the diodes (CR-2,3,5,6) there, this makes the reading toggle abruptly, making the exact setting nearly impossible. Making the adjustment at the factory test point helps (a little) with the idle arrest tensions but leaves the other 4 LM741's that are in the tension circuits feeding the AD532's with uncontrolled offsets. Since the 532's are doing analog math based on NOT having any offset voltage fed into them, they calculate the wrong tensions. Not good. The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 10/31/2004 7:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The LM714 IC's can be replaced with low-offset internally/externally compensated IC's and the lousy 'red' IC sockets removed. Once this is done, the transport offset pots (lower left and right corners of the analog torque PCB) can actually (and should be) removed. At that point JH-110 / JH-16/24 machines are quite stable in terms of tensions, and lose that annoying tendency to creep in 'stop'. Otherwise the offsets and idle tensions adjustments must be carefully set indeed. Oooooh. That's interesting. Nobody has ever mentioned removing the offset pots before. My deck had all the red sockets replaced before I got it and I don't think the 714's are there anymore either. I remember replacing a bunch of chips on the torque board with TL071's. Do you know which IC #'s need to be replaced? -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #447 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:30 pm Subject: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: I often tape the > reel flanges to the sides of the head bridge to make sure they don't > move even a little. A little trick Steve Sadler taught me: Pull the brake solenoid driver out. You can pull the bottom part of the PCB out and the brakes will engage. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #448 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:17 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Makes sense, as long as the brake bands are in decent shape. Anything that keeps them from moving will do the trick.. -----Original Message----- From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: I often tape the > reel flanges to the sides of the head bridge to make sure they don't > move even a little. A little trick Steve Sadler taught me: Pull the brake solenoid driver out. You can pull the bottom part of the PCB out and the brakes will engage. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #449 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #450 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:25 am Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email What I recall was the pots were just removed entirely, no cutting or jumpering. I also recall adding a single capacitor between two pins of each IC that was replaced. DON'T do it unless you've changed the 741's out ! With all that in place, the only things that caused any further instability of the analog torque board were those molex connectors, AND sometimes the molex connectors down on the motor driver boards in the transport power supplies (assuming JH-16/24). If the generator-type tachometers on the reel motors get dirty comutators or worn brushes, that can also be a problem. Still, just taking care of the IC's, sockets, and molex connectors on the analog torque board seemed to eliminate about 90+ percent of tension and creeping problems in the long term. Master bias mod ? Not sure which ones you mean.... I used to replace the master oscillator on JH-24 / 110 machines with a little outboard crystal controlled oscillator that I just fed into the transformer with some coax. The circuit wasn't anything special.. I got it from a semiconductor manual circuit example and just had some very small PC cards made up. On JH-24 I'd mount them to the bottom left strip board on standoffs. In JH-110, I mounted them on standoffs on the metal divider between the channels in the audio drawers. Sure helped with drive and clipping problems, to say nothing of the fact that since you weren't tuning the bias /erase frequency with the slug in the transformer (the crystal made it always correct), that meant bias traps and erase peak stayed stable as well (except, of course, when changing headstacks, but that would be expected..) On 1/2" JH-110 configurations I found that in order to avoid clipping the bias circuit, I had to tack in a pair of transistors to the bias/erase cards to be able to get enough bias and erase current without clipping those circuits. I think the very last of those machines MAY have actually had that added to the cards. It was just too long ago, but it really was about the only real option for fixing that problem. These machines were pretty good sounding, if noisy, but if you had to set the master oscillator gain high enough to get overbias / erase for 1/2", it would clip and make the machine sound 'dirty' in a way that was a little hard to describe. That wasn't a problem on JH-24 machines. Hope that helps. It has been a while, so I have to reach way back in the 'ol memory banks for this stuff. I have forgotten what IC I used to use in place of the 741's, but if enough members want it I can figure it out again. Same for the master oscillator circuit... I may still even have a raw board somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #451 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:36 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 11/17/04 12:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: With all that in place, the only things that caused any further instability of the analog torque board were those molex connectors, AND sometimes the molex connectors down on the motor driver boards in the transport power supplies (assuming JH-16/24). I've sometimes had problems with the PLL card relating to the capstan not engaging. That can cause some transport havic LOL *sigh* Usually it's dirty contacts which is cleared up easily enough with the standard methods. Master bias mod ? Not sure which ones you mean.... I'm talking about the mythical mod that gives the operator a single bias point for tweaking rather then having to do 24 individual pots when switching tape types or batches. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #452 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:34 am Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I'd have to review the circuit diagrams, but I don't think that would be possible on a JH-24. Or rather, it would be a very major hack to lots of circuits. A JH-110, sure, it is only 2 or 4 channels, nearly co-located. But the JH-24.....? I can see how it could be done... but what a mess. The master oscillator runs at 220 Khz as I recall, and that is sent to all the channels on a single buss, then divided down on each individual bias /erase card to the 110 khz that is used on each channel for erase, and the 220 khz is used for the bias. Any change in the master oscillator level would affect erase depth as well as bias. Perhaps a hack that varies the voltage on the buss that selects which speed the machine is at ? Even worse. ..and I don't think using a master adjustment for 24 tracks of bias is a good idea in terms of ultimately making a good alignment, but that is just personal opinion on my part. The pots are annoying, that's for sure, and people keep breaking off the leads of the pots by being ham-handed with them. Ain't no free lunch !! ... If these machines had gold plated connectors everyone would be a *LOT* happier. If anything is responsible for the bad rap the JH machines got, it is those durn tin plated molex connectors. (The gold plated ones are available right off the shelf and are exact replacements. Not cheap and a hassle to replace all of them, but that ends the problems entirely....) -----Original Message----- From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 11/17/04 12:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: With all that in place, the only things that caused any further instability of the analog torque board were those molex connectors, AND sometimes the molex connectors down on the motor driver boards in the transport power supplies (assuming JH-16/24). I've sometimes had problems with the PLL card relating to the capstan not engaging. That can cause some transport havic LOL *sigh* Usually it's dirty contacts which is cleared up easily enough with the standard methods. Master bias mod ? Not sure which ones you mean.... I'm talking about the mythical mod that gives the operator a single bias point for tweaking rather then having to do 24 individual pots when switching tape types or batches. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #453 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #454 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:19 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #455 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:25 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #456 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:45 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree with you on the molex connectors and the 'jones' plugs for sure. If there is a #1 cause of problems, that is it. The reel tachs should be cleaned as needed as you point out. They almost never wear out but do need to be disassembled and cleaned, although not really all that often. I'm sure you know, but some of the other folks out there might not.... be VERY careful disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling them. Mark the orientation and positions of all parts, and for heaven sakes don't reverse the wires on the bottom ! ( and use the correct size allen driver on the set screws ! They are really tight and you don't want to strip them out.) -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 4:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #457 From: Shea Ako Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 shea@... Send Email I've done work on a lot of MCI machines and these days whenever I get a service call I usually demand that the client let me replace all of the transport mother board molexes and (red) IC sockets. (Assuming I'm responding to some sort of transport or logic complaint and that this hasn't been done already). My experience has indicated that you can spend endless amounts of time chasing problems that are related to poor molex/IC socket connections. The last thing I want is another call from the client complaining that the problem came back or that another problem occurred after I left (because I had upset the delicate balance of flakey connections by sticking my fingers in there). Often after replacing these the problem that they complained about is gone. If not I have performed some essential preventative maintenance. While I have replaced quite a few 741s I have found that having reliable connections on the analog torque board dramatically decreases what would appear to be long term offset null drift. These days I keep a spare 'molex pack' around ready for an MCI call. Here are the digikey part numbers: qty. part number 10) WM3500-ND 10) WM3503-ND 6) WM3506-ND 2) WM3509-ND Here are some notes regarding transport motherboard molex replacement: - I only replace the female connectors. I was foolish enough once to try replacing the male ends as well and it turned out to be a major pain. Furthermore a lot of the male ends are actually non-standard long pins which serve as male connectors on the back side of the transport motherboard too. The male ends are easy enough to clean well anyway since the entire contact surface is exposed. While I am cleaning the male ends I also carefully inspect the solder joint between the male ends and the transport motherboard. I resolder any connections that look suspect. - The female molex connectors that are available these days are slightly different than the original ones in that they are slightly longer. This means that all of your transport motherboard cards will sit about 50mils higher off of the motherboard than they used to which is not a problem. However, note that you need to replace ALL of the connectors on a particular board otherwise the unreplaced original connectors will not be able to seat all the way down on the transport motherboard causing the connection to be potentially worse than before. -I use 6 pin molexes instead of pairs of 3 pin molexes where appropriate. Be aware that there is a 3 pin molex on the interface lamp driver board that appears to be directly adjacent to some other pins but it is actually slightly further away. This means that you must use a 3 pin connector in this position rather than one with more pins to cover these three pins and the the adjacent pins too. If you're coming up with your own parts list be aware of this. -You could use gold plated molexes for replacement but I am suspicious of the long term reliability of a connection between dissimilar metals (I assume that you're not replacing the male ends with gold as well). Maybe it's ok. I'd be interested to hear other members comments on this. -After molex replacement the initial seating of each circuit board will be rather stiff (which is a good thing!) but I generally perform the male pin cleaning directly prior to this and the residual contact cleaner helps as a lubricant (depending on what you use). - I use a powered vacuum solder sucker to remove the original female molex connectors. I can't imagine doing it with solder braid or a 'soldapult' style sucker. I think it takes me about 3 hours to complete the whole operation and avoids lifted pads/traces. -The above part numbers will do the analog torque board, control logic, interface lamp driver and PLL. I think its about $35. Regarding analog torque board 741 replacement I was looking at the OP-07 which has good dc stability, very low input offset voltage and is available for about .80 per chip. I've never tried this before but I'm intrigued. I know that there are other options as well but this seemed to be dramatically better than a 741 without cranking up the price too much. A friend of mine is going to give this a shot. I'll let you folks know what the results are, eg. if he can pull out the offset null trimmers and maintain <10mV at the output of the tach preamps with no reel movement. OK, thats my 2 cents on molexes ;) cheers, Shea Ako I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #458 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:33 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree completely. On the molexes, I do replace both male and female sides. You are sure right though, the male pins can be a real pain. Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) -----Original Message----- From: Shea Ako [mailto:shea@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 I've done work on a lot of MCI machines and these days whenever I get a service call I usually demand that the client let me replace all of the transport mother board molexes and (red) IC sockets. (Assuming I'm responding to some sort of transport or logic complaint and that this hasn't been done already). My experience has indicated that you can spend endless amounts of time chasing problems that are related to poor molex/IC socket connections. The last thing I want is another call from the client complaining that the problem came back or that another problem occurred after I left (because I had upset the delicate balance of flakey connections by sticking my fingers in there). Often after replacing these the problem that they complained about is gone. If not I have performed some essential preventative maintenance. While I have replaced quite a few 741s I have found that having reliable connections on the analog torque board dramatically decreases what would appear to be long term offset null drift. These days I keep a spare 'molex pack' around ready for an MCI call. Here are the digikey part numbers: qty. part number 10) WM3500-ND 10) WM3503-ND 6) WM3506-ND 2) WM3509-ND Here are some notes regarding transport motherboard molex replacement: - I only replace the female connectors. I was foolish enough once to try replacing the male ends as well and it turned out to be a major pain. Furthermore a lot of the male ends are actually non-standard long pins which serve as male connectors on the back side of the transport motherboard too. The male ends are easy enough to clean well anyway since the entire contact surface is exposed. While I am cleaning the male ends I also carefully inspect the solder joint between the male ends and the transport motherboard. I resolder any connections that look suspect. - The female molex connectors that are available these days are slightly different than the original ones in that they are slightly longer. This means that all of your transport motherboard cards will sit about 50mils higher off of the motherboard than they used to which is not a problem. However, note that you need to replace ALL of the connectors on a particular board otherwise the unreplaced original connectors will not be able to seat all the way down on the transport motherboard causing the connection to be potentially worse than before. -I use 6 pin molexes instead of pairs of 3 pin molexes where appropriate. Be aware that there is a 3 pin molex on the interface lamp driver board that appears to be directly adjacent to some other pins but it is actually slightly further away. This means that you must use a 3 pin connector in this position rather than one with more pins to cover these three pins and the the adjacent pins too. If you're coming up with your own parts list be aware of this. -You could use gold plated molexes for replacement but I am suspicious of the long term reliability of a connection between dissimilar metals (I assume that you're not replacing the male ends with gold as well). Maybe it's ok. I'd be interested to hear other members comments on this. -After molex replacement the initial seating of each circuit board will be rather stiff (which is a good thing!) but I generally perform the male pin cleaning directly prior to this and the residual contact cleaner helps as a lubricant (depending on what you use). - I use a powered vacuum solder sucker to remove the original female molex connectors. I can't imagine doing it with solder braid or a 'soldapult' style sucker. I think it takes me about 3 hours to complete the whole operation and avoids lifted pads/traces. -The above part numbers will do the analog torque board, control logic, interface lamp driver and PLL. I think its about $35. Regarding analog torque board 741 replacement I was looking at the OP-07 which has good dc stability, very low input offset voltage and is available for about .80 per chip. I've never tried this before but I'm intrigued. I know that there are other options as well but this seemed to be dramatically better than a 741 without cranking up the price too much. A friend of mine is going to give this a shot. I'll let you folks know what the results are, eg. if he can pull out the offset null trimmers and maintain <10mV at the output of the tach preamps with no reel movement. OK, thats my 2 cents on molexes ;) cheers, Shea Ako I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #459 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:45 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email I'm not sure those type of molex conenctors should have been used anywhere near cars or audio or logic. It was the downfall of other wise fairly well designed equipment. At 09:33 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree completely. On the molexes, I do replace both male and female sides. You are sure right though, the male pins can be a real pain. Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) -----Original Message----- From: Shea Ako [mailto:shea@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 I've done work on a lot of MCI machines and these days whenever I get a service call I usually demand that the client let me replace all of the transport mother board molexes and (red) IC sockets. (Assuming I'm responding to some sort of transport or logic complaint and that this hasn't been done already). My experience has indicated that you can spend endless amounts of time chasing problems that are related to poor molex/IC socket connections. The last thing I want is another call from the client complaining that the problem came back or that another problem occurred after I left (because I had upset the delicate balance of flakey connections by sticking my fingers in there). Often after replacing these the problem that they complained about is gone. If not I have performed some essential preventative maintenance. While I have replaced quite a few 741s I have found that having reliable connections on the analog torque board dramatically decreases what would appear to be long term offset null drift. These days I keep a spare 'molex pack' around ready for an MCI call. Here are the digikey part numbers: qty. part number 10) WM3500-ND 10) WM3503-ND 6) WM3506-ND 2) WM3509-ND Here are some notes regarding transport motherboard molex replacement: - I only replace the female connectors. I was foolish enough once to try replacing the male ends as well and it turned out to be a major pain. Furthermore a lot of the male ends are actually non-standard long pins which serve as male connectors on the back side of the transport motherboard too. The male ends are easy enough to clean well anyway since the entire contact surface is exposed. While I am cleaning the male ends I also carefully inspect the solder joint between the male ends and the transport motherboard. I resolder any connections that look suspect. - The female molex connectors that are available these days are slightly different than the original ones in that they are slightly longer. This means that all of your transport motherboard cards will sit about 50mils higher off of the motherboard than they used to which is not a problem. However, note that you need to replace ALL of the connectors on a particular board otherwise the unreplaced original connectors will not be able to seat all the way down on the transport motherboard causing the connection to be potentially worse than before. -I use 6 pin molexes instead of pairs of 3 pin molexes where appropriate. Be aware that there is a 3 pin molex on the interface lamp driver board that appears to be directly adjacent to some other pins but it is actually slightly further away. This means that you must use a 3 pin connector in this position rather than one with more pins to cover these three pins and the the adjacent pins too. If you're coming up with your own parts list be aware of this. -You could use gold plated molexes for replacement but I am suspicious of the long term reliability of a connection between dissimilar metals (I assume that you're not replacing the male ends with gold as well). Maybe it's ok. I'd be interested to hear other members comments on this. -After molex replacement the initial seating of each circuit board will be rather stiff (which is a good thing!) but I generally perform the male pin cleaning directly prior to this and the residual contact cleaner helps as a lubricant (depending on what you use). - I use a powered vacuum solder sucker to remove the original female molex connectors. I can't imagine doing it with solder braid or a 'soldapult' style sucker. I think it takes me about 3 hours to complete the whole operation and avoids lifted pads/traces. -The above part numbers will do the analog torque board, control logic, interface lamp driver and PLL. I think its about $35. Regarding analog torque board 741 replacement I was looking at the OP-07 which has good dc stability, very low input offset voltage and is available for about .80 per chip. I've never tried this before but I'm intrigued. I know that there are other options as well but this seemed to be dramatically better than a 741 without cranking up the price too much. A friend of mine is going to give this a shot. I'll let you folks know what the results are, eg. if he can pull out the offset null trimmers and maintain <10mV at the output of the tach preamps with no reel movement. OK, thats my 2 cents on molexes ;) cheers, Shea Ako I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #460 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:53 pm Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:45 PM 11/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: I'm not sure those type of molex conenctors should have been used anywhere near cars or audio or logic. It was the downfall of other wise fairly well designed equipment. Cars now have millivolt signals, I fear, and Pacific Recorders used Molexs as well--and it was one of the reasons a major network wouldn't buy their stuff. Jack Williams swore up and down he had no problems with them. They were rated for only a few cycles, but for audio console installations, he claimed that the installation was within the spec. They sure saved money. I don't think gold-tin is a bad match, one thing I've done is use gold on fixed-mount connector panels and not enforce gold on the stage cables. That way, the fixed connector panels don't corrode. I've lived most of my life doing projects in bad air: NYC and Glendale, CA, tho in Glendale we did projects world-wide. Hmmm. one of them went to Mexico City recently, speaking of bad air. Cheers, Richard At 09:33 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree completely. On the molexes, I do replace both male and female sides. You are sure right though, the male pins can be a real pain. Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) -----Original Message----- From: Shea Ako [mailto:shea@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 I've done work on a lot of MCI machines and these days whenever I get a service call I usually demand that the client let me replace all of the transport mother board molexes and (red) IC sockets. (Assuming I'm responding to some sort of transport or logic complaint and that this hasn't been done already). My experience has indicated that you can spend endless amounts of time chasing problems that are related to poor molex/IC socket connections. The last thing I want is another call from the client complaining that the problem came back or that another problem occurred after I left (because I had upset the delicate balance of flakey connections by sticking my fingers in there). Often after replacing these the problem that they complained about is gone. If not I have performed some essential preventative maintenance. While I have replaced quite a few 741s I have found that having reliable connections on the analog torque board dramatically decreases what would appear to be long term offset null drift. These days I keep a spare 'molex pack' around ready for an MCI call. Here are the digikey part numbers: qty. part number 10) WM3500-ND 10) WM3503-ND 6) WM3506-ND 2) WM3509-ND Here are some notes regarding transport motherboard molex replacement: - I only replace the female connectors. I was foolish enough once to try replacing the male ends as well and it turned out to be a major pain. Furthermore a lot of the male ends are actually non-standard long pins which serve as male connectors on the back side of the transport motherboard too. The male ends are easy enough to clean well anyway since the entire contact surface is exposed. While I am cleaning the male ends I also carefully inspect the solder joint between the male ends and the transport motherboard. I resolder any connections that look suspect. - The female molex connectors that are available these days are slightly different than the original ones in that they are slightly longer. This means that all of your transport motherboard cards will sit about 50mils higher off of the motherboard than they used to which is not a problem. However, note that you need to replace ALL of the connectors on a particular board otherwise the unreplaced original connectors will not be able to seat all the way down on the transport motherboard causing the connection to be potentially worse than before. -I use 6 pin molexes instead of pairs of 3 pin molexes where appropriate. Be aware that there is a 3 pin molex on the interface lamp driver board that appears to be directly adjacent to some other pins but it is actually slightly further away. This means that you must use a 3 pin connector in this position rather than one with more pins to cover these three pins and the the adjacent pins too. If you're coming up with your own parts list be aware of this. -You could use gold plated molexes for replacement but I am suspicious of the long term reliability of a connection between dissimilar metals (I assume that you're not replacing the male ends with gold as well). Maybe it's ok. I'd be interested to hear other members comments on this. -After molex replacement the initial seating of each circuit board will be rather stiff (which is a good thing!) but I generally perform the male pin cleaning directly prior to this and the residual contact cleaner helps as a lubricant (depending on what you use). - I use a powered vacuum solder sucker to remove the original female molex connectors. I can't imagine doing it with solder braid or a 'soldapult' style sucker. I think it takes me about 3 hours to complete the whole operation and avoids lifted pads/traces. -The above part numbers will do the analog torque board, control logic, interface lamp driver and PLL. I think its about $35. Regarding analog torque board 741 replacement I was looking at the OP-07 which has good dc stability, very low input offset voltage and is available for about .80 per chip. I've never tried this before but I'm intrigued. I know that there are other options as well but this seemed to be dramatically better than a 741 without cranking up the price too much. A friend of mine is going to give this a shot. I'll let you folks know what the results are, eg. if he can pull out the offset null trimmers and maintain <10mV at the output of the tach preamps with no reel movement. OK, thats my 2 cents on molexes ;) cheers, Shea Ako I think some of the JH reliability are the molex connectors -- not just oxidation, but cold solder joints. (see if you can turn the pins with long-nosed pliars.) There was a time when you could get gold plated pins and tri-furcated (three contact) sockets. Dunno if that's still an option. on the multitrack machines, The rear deck molex connectors are very problematic, because they are rarely properly re-threaded through their strain relief hooks. Also, the reel tachometers often get clogged with brush dirt -- you can determine condition by looking at them with a scope -- they can be cleaned At 04:19 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: I agree. It kind of depends on the technical chops you have or can afford to pay for. I'm the sort that only likes to visit the same problems once on a given machine, and my engineering background makes that easier. I worked for Criteria studios for a number of years in the early 80's. Our owner, Mack Emmerman, was in tight with "Jeep" H., and we used to get just about every prototype of every MCI product before and during production, so our engineering department looked deep into the pitfalls of these things. When I went to work for Sony it was because I knew where the 'bodies were buried', so to speak, and the customer complains about JH reliability and stability were forcing them (Sony, by then) to address some of them. When the APR's were designed, we were determined that at least most of the same mistakes wouldn't get made again.... -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 you might start with good sockets and new chips to see what happens. At 10:48 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/10/04 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The best solution of all is to change out the 741's with other stable, low offset chips. That helps everything in every way... then you can remove the offset pots and perhaps the diodes as well. The last time I had to replace a 741 on one of these boards for someone, I had to go through 4 new ones of them to find one with reasonable offsets. Then their creeping problems went away...... no wonder 741's cost only about $.75 each. Get what what you pay for........ So if I do this I won't have to do a torque board alignment every 6 months or 300 reels whichever comes first? lol How would I go about removing the offset pots? Just yank 'em out and bridge the points with 20ga wire? Or would I have to cut the traces or install jumpers? So who's got the master bias mod around? = ) I know a guy who can mod each card cage for a master which is kinda close to having a master. -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #461 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 11/17/04 6:55:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The reel tachs should be cleaned as needed as you point out. They almost never wear out but do need to be disassembled and cleaned, although not really all that often. I'm sure you know, but some of the other folks out there might not.... be VERY careful disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling them. Mark the orientation and positions of all parts, and for heaven sakes don't reverse the wires on the bottom ! ( and use the correct size allen driver on the set screws ! They are really tight and you don't want to strip them out.) Cleaning reel tachs? That's a new one on me. How often should they be cleaned and what symptoms come up if they aren't cleaned? And what would I use to clean them? -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #462 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 11/17/04 10:35:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) Ever been to the Smithsonian and seen the Apollo Space Capsule? It's FILLED with molex connectors. I was amazed that they made it to the moon and back in that thing. I rarely have a day when the JH-24 never freaks out. Seems like at least once a day something pops up, even as minor as having to reset the tape counter or losing a track in repro. Jiggle jiggle, all better. *shakes head* -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #463 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:45 am Subject: Re: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email perhaps they used a better quality connector? or that simply they weren't old enough to be funky. At 11:50 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: In a message dated 11/17/04 10:35:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) Ever been to the Smithsonian and seen the Apollo Space Capsule? It's FILLED with molex connectors. I was amazed that they made it to the moon and back in that thing. I rarely have a day when the JH-24 never freaks out. Seems like at least once a day something pops up, even as minor as having to reset the tape counter or losing a track in repro. Jiggle jiggle, all better. *shakes head* -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #464 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:55 am Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I can't speak for anyone else... but on machines still in daily use I did it once a year or if jerky behaviour was seen while idle tensions were observed with the tape sensor blocked.. Can't say I used anything more than alcohol and swabs on the commutators, brushes, general internal cleaning. It is vital to put all the parts back exactly as you found them. By that I mean don't mix or reorient the brushes, even though they look identical, mark the black base plates so that they are oriented the same way in relation to the metal shells, observe polarity on the connecting wires, etc. The task of dissembling and cleaning these things is not difficult, but you must be very careful. They can be difficult to dismount as well, even though we're only talking about 3 screws and 2 allen screws. The shaft fit and the allen screws are very tight and very small. Use the right tools, don't hurry and you'll be fine. -----Original Message----- From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 11/17/04 6:55:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: The reel tachs should be cleaned as needed as you point out. They almost never wear out but do need to be disassembled and cleaned, although not really all that often. I'm sure you know, but some of the other folks out there might not.... be VERY careful disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling them. Mark the orientation and positions of all parts, and for heaven sakes don't reverse the wires on the bottom ! ( and use the correct size allen driver on the set screws ! They are really tight and you don't want to strip them out.) Cleaning reel tachs? That's a new one on me. How often should they be cleaned and what symptoms come up if they aren't cleaned? And what would I use to clean them? -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #465 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:29 am Subject: RE: Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I still assist some old customers that heavily use JH-24's. They have all had the molexes replaced, along with the 'red' IC sockets, and the chip changes. They have VERY few problems with the machines. They are kept clean and get regular routine maintance at least once a year. Other than the difficulty with people breaking the leads on the alignment pots by bending the pots back and forth doing alignments, little seems to happen that would be any different on any high quality pro machine in heavy use. They are all of the 1980-82 vintage though, and I'm aware that there were some quality control issues on some years / models. If a machine was run to death without proper care along the way, well, you are doomed before you start. ..ah, the autolocator. I find that most counter freezups are due to someone touching the locator metal work while having a static charge on their bodies from the studio carpet. There are some ways of changing the grounding scheme of the locator / transport to help this out some. In some cases, in dry climates, I've put CPU reset buttons on the locators so that the machine need not be power cycled when it gets glitched out. There are also a couple of software bugs in the autolocators EPROM's, depending on the vintage. All of them had bugs, but the bugs are different in each version. If you have ever had the machine locate back to its zero point VERY slowly, that is one of the bugs in the software. Nothing broken, just a bug. Happens particularly after repeated locates between two locate points that are fairly close together. Very annoying ! -----Original Message----- From: mooseaudio@... [mailto:mooseaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:50 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: New owner advice coveted / JH-24 In a message dated 11/17/04 10:35:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, scottp@... writes: Let's face it, molex connectors should have been in cars, not circuits carrying millivolt control information... :>) Ever been to the Smithsonian and seen the Apollo Space Capsule? It's FILLED with molex connectors. I was amazed that they made it to the moon and back in that thing. I rarely have a day when the JH-24 never freaks out. Seems like at least once a day something pops up, even as minor as having to reset the tape counter or losing a track in repro. Jiggle jiggle, all better. *shakes head* -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (24 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #466 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:07 pm Subject: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice regarding replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other specs are not readily available. The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). (http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 mm and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 V.D.C. Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top down (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the process? Thank you! Paul McCulloh Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #467 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:24 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if this quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional 40mA available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since there's options for driving remotes with indicators on them. So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan off the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a resistor. There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat--but we're only talking a watt of dissipation. Cheers, Richard At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice regarding replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other specs are not readily available. The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). (http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 mm and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 V.D.C. Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top down (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the process? Thank you! Paul McCulloh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #468 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:42 pm Subject: RE: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short circuit / current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is available internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the machine. Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power supply? -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if this quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional 40mA available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since there's options for driving remotes with indicators on them. So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan off the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a resistor. There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat--but we're only talking a watt of dissipation. Cheers, Richard At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice regarding replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other specs are not readily available. The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). (http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 mm and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 V.D.C. Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top down (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the process? Thank you! Paul McCulloh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #469 From: Tom Benvenuto Date: Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:46 pm Subject: APR24 For Sale bdigital69 Offline Send Email APR 24 for sale in great cond. $5,500.00 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #470 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:06 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you remember the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort of sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have been a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember without the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by hand, it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some of Richard's older machines may have this installed if they weren't replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those NBC machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so it was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding this. At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. I'll be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to get to once the supply is opened. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short circuit / current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is available internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the machine. Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power supply? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if this quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional 40mA available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since there's options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan off the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a resistor. There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat--but we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice regarding > replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 > mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other > specs are not readily available. > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the > Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 > CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 mm > and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 > V.D.C. > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the > alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the > 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the > existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top down > (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the > process? > > Thank you! > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #471 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:21 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan allegrosound Offline Send Email Every APR-owner I know hates the fan noise! It is my only serious complaint of an otherwise-fine machine. Any help to fix is greatly appreciated. Rick@... ladewd wrote: I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you remember the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort of sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have been a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember without the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by hand, it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some of Richard's older machines may have this installed if they weren't replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those NBC machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so it was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding this. At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. I'll be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to get to once the supply is opened. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short circuit / current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is available internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the machine. Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power supply? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if this quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional 40mA available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since there's options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan off the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a resistor. There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat--but we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > Cheers, > Richard > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice regarding replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other > specs are not readily available. > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 mm and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 V.D.C. > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top down (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the > process? > > Thank you! > > Paul McCulloh Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #472 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:37 am Subject: APR-2003 richardlhess Offline Send Email Someone is auctioning the brochure for an APR-2003 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67813&item=5719500620&rd=\ 1&ssPageName=WD1V So were any ever made? This looks like a Nagraesque machine. It is a center track timecode machine with five inch reels. Cheers, RIchard Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #473 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:42 am Subject: Re: APR-2003 radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Yes -- as I recall some of these were made for a Japanese broadcaster. I know a Japanese collector of Nagra and Stellavoxs that has one (or two.) There is a similiar TC model that only spins at 7 1/2 ips and has appeared occasionally on eBay -- if I've got my memory chips installed correctly this morning. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #474 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:05 pm Subject: Re: APR-2003 ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, We used to have a 2003 at the factory. I pretty much could've had it if I wanted it. I figured it wasn't something I'd be interested in so I passed on it. There's a hosed 5003 on ebay for parts. Only around $100 so far. It has a dead power supply and no headstack. The same guy has a working one for $500. He has a buy it now price of ~ $1000 ...wishful thinking. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Richard: > > Yes -- as I recall some of these were made for a Japanese broadcaster. I > know a Japanese collector of Nagra and Stellavoxs that has one (or two.) > > There is a similiar TC model that only spins at 7 1/2 ips and has appeared > occasionally on eBay -- if I've got my memory chips installed correctly this > morning. > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #475 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:16 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-2003 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, Thanks for the info. I'm running out of room for APRs...and I think I have enough for a while. I would have been more interested in the parts machine if it had a headstack, but I even have enough of those . JRF does nice work. I've got the 2-track 1/2-inch headstack done. Cheers, Richard At 09:05 PM 11/24/2004 +0000, you wrote: Richard, We used to have a 2003 at the factory. I pretty much could've had it if I wanted it. I figured it wasn't something I'd be interested in so I passed on it. There's a hosed 5003 on ebay for parts. Only around $100 so far. It has a dead power supply and no headstack. The same guy has a working one for $500. He has a buy it now price of ~ $1000 ...wishful thinking. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > Richard: > > Yes -- as I recall some of these were made for a Japanese broadcaster. I > know a Japanese collector of Nagra and Stellavoxs that has one (or two.) > > There is a similiar TC model that only spins at 7 1/2 ips and has appeared > occasionally on eBay -- if I've got my memory chips installed correctly this > morning. > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #476 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:45 pm Subject: Re: APR-2003 ladewd Offline Send Email There is also a JH110 B or C on Tapeop for sale. Its in the LA area and the guy only wants $200. It has some extra audio cards and appears in nice shape...if anyone is interested. I'd snag it if I had the room for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, Cary, > > Thanks for the info. > > I'm running out of room for APRs...and I think I have enough for a while. I > would have been more interested in the parts machine if it had a headstack, > but I even have enough of those . JRF does nice work. I've got the > 2-track 1/2-inch headstack done. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 09:05 PM 11/24/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Richard, > > > >We used to have a 2003 at the factory. I pretty much could've had > >it if I wanted it. I figured it wasn't something I'd be interested > >in so I passed on it. There's a hosed 5003 on ebay for parts. Only > >around $100 so far. It has a dead power supply and no headstack. > >The same guy has a working one for $500. He has a buy it now price > >of ~ $1000 ...wishful thinking. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@a... wrote: > > > Richard: > > > > > > Yes -- as I recall some of these were made for a Japanese > >broadcaster. I > > > know a Japanese collector of Nagra and Stellavoxs that has one (or > >two.) > > > > > > There is a similiar TC model that only spins at 7 1/2 ips and has > >appeared > > > occasionally on eBay -- if I've got my memory chips installed > >correctly this > > > morning. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Mark Stahlman > > > New York City > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #477 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:50 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thank you for your excellent comments, Richard, Scott and Curt. Scott mentioned that 12V should be available in the 5003 because of the existence of the RS-232 interface. If this is true, would this be the better approach, or would Richard's idea of using a 7812 voltage regulator at the 24V source make more sense? I have been able to confirm that the quietest 60mm fans available are made by SilenX and are available in three configurations: SX-060-08: 12V/1.2W / 1800 RPM / 9 CFM / 8 dBA; SX-060-12: 12V/1.2W / 2000 RPM / 13 CFM / 12 dBA; SX-060-16: 12V/1.2W / 2400 RPM / 18 CFM / 16 dBA. (http://www.silenx.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_Z.asp?idCategory=3) In addition, Papst makes what appears to be the only other quiet 60mm fan available: 612FL: 11.5 > 13.2 V/.4W / 2650 RPM / 11.2 CFM / 16 dBA. Does anyone have information regarding what CFM might be needed to keep the 5003V cool? My knowledge of electronics is extremely limited, although I enjoy learning. Something makes me think, however, that taking semi- random stabs at the insides of my 5003V is probably not the best place to continue my education. Assuming one of the SilenX fans has the necessary CFM, would someone be willing to put together detailed (i.e., step by step, ideally with photos) instructions for creating a power source for this fan? I would be willing to pay for the time it would take to put these together. Curt, I looked for your instructions for removing the P/S / fan, but was not able to find them. Would you mind posting these again? A great article showing how to build a thermal cooling fan controller which uses only three parts and costs about $4 is available at . The controller is unique in that it can be adjusted by the user over a wide temperature range, and will switch off the fan completely if the temperature is low enough. The article includes photos and drawings in place of schematics for us novices. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you remember > the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort of > sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have been > a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember without > the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by hand, > it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never > documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some of > Richard's older machines may have this installed if they weren't > replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those NBC > machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so it > was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early > machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v > though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding this. > > At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who > complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. > > I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. I'll > be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to get to > once the supply is opened. > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > wrote: > > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short circuit / > current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current > consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is available > internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the machine. > Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal > instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power > supply? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > > > > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in > pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if this > quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan > should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional 40mA > available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since there's > options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on > this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan off > the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a resistor. > There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a > linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching > stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat-- but > we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice > regarding > > replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL 60 > > mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and other > > specs are not readily available. > > > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the > > Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 > > CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). > > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both 60 > mm > > and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are 12 > > V.D.C. > > > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the > > alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on the > > 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the > > existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top > down > > (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the > > process? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > 76/D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1100921154/A=2434970/R=0/SIG=11edksnh > v/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185402> click here > > M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2434970/rand=703026 > 098> > > > > > > _____ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #478 From: "AudioSynergy" Date: Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:14 am Subject: Re: Should we open this list a little? audiosynergy Offline Send Email Hello One and All, from a Sony APR 5003V User in Sydney, Australia. I say yes to the MCI connection though feel the Otari is a little of course as I have owned an MCI JH-24 Badged Sony, so yes!.......Thanks to all for the streaming info and chat, Best to all, AudioSynergy@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 12:23 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Should we open this list a little? Hello, members, There seems to be a need to discuss two other recorders that are in somewhat widespread use: (1) MCI machines (2) Otari machines Should we open this list up to either or both? I'm thinking that we should open it up to MCI machines as there is the Sony-MCI connection by purchase and some MCI machines were sold as Sony badged machines. I don't think we should open the list to Otari machines as they are a different animal. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I'm copying some people who asked about this and my suggestion is that one of them can start the Otari list and be the listmom. I'll join, just so I don't miss something, but I traded four MTR 10/12 machines for an APR-5003V, a remote, and some cash. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #479 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:52 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email Paul, Unfortunately there is no 12V rail inside the power supply. Instead of regulating 24V to 12V, you can use the 15V rail on the RGD board. I used to know the specs on the BetaSL fan, but not anymore. Sony switched to a Masushita SF60 (pt# ASF64372) as a quieter 24V replacement in the mid '90's. You can try and find the specs on that fan. A google search on the part number yielded a German PDF page which had the CFM specs in metric. Maybe you can make heads or tails of it. As far as power supply removal goes look here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/message/104 Keep in mind an inadequately cooled power supply will fail and has the potential of causing fires. You may be able to run a 12V fan on the 15V without a regulator. I'm not certain about how much current the replacement fans will draw. The stock fan drew 50mA. You're on your own with this project. It will help to remove the bottom panel of the APR during testing. You should run the machine for an hour or so and feel the bottom of the supply to get an idea as to how hot it runs. After you install the new fan, gauge the temperature this way. You'll know when its too hot and it will get hot rather quickly with an underpowered fan. Good luck. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > Thank you for your excellent comments, Richard, Scott and Curt. > > Scott mentioned that 12V should be available in the 5003 because of > the existence of the RS-232 interface. If this is true, would this > be the better approach, or would Richard's idea of using a 7812 > voltage regulator at the 24V source make more sense? > > I have been able to confirm that the quietest 60mm fans available > are made by SilenX and are available in three configurations: > > SX-060-08: 12V/1.2W / 1800 RPM / 9 CFM / 8 dBA; > SX-060-12: 12V/1.2W / 2000 RPM / 13 CFM / 12 dBA; > SX-060-16: 12V/1.2W / 2400 RPM / 18 CFM / 16 dBA. > > (http://www.silenx.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_Z.asp?idCategory=3) > > In addition, Papst makes what appears to be the only other quiet > 60mm fan available: > > 612FL: 11.5 > 13.2 V/.4W / 2650 RPM / 11.2 CFM / 16 dBA. > > Does anyone have information regarding what CFM might be needed to > keep the 5003V cool? > > My knowledge of electronics is extremely limited, although I enjoy > learning. Something makes me think, however, that taking semi- > random stabs at the insides of my 5003V is probably not the best > place to continue my education. Assuming one of the SilenX fans has > the necessary CFM, would someone be willing to put together detailed > (i.e., step by step, ideally with photos) instructions for creating > a power source for this fan? I would be willing to pay for the time > it would take to put these together. > > Curt, I looked for your instructions for removing the P/S / fan, but > was not able to find them. Would you mind posting these again? > > A great article showing how to build a thermal cooling fan > controller which uses only three parts and costs about $4 is > available at . The > controller is unique in that it can be adjusted by the user over a > wide temperature range, and will switch off the fan completely if > the temperature is low enough. The article includes photos and > drawings in place of schematics for us novices. > > Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! > > Paul > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you remember > > the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort of > > sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have > been > > a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember without > > the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by hand, > > it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never > > documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some of > > Richard's older machines may have this installed if they weren't > > replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those NBC > > machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so it > > was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early > > machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v > > though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding > this. > > > > At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who > > complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. > > > > I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. > I'll > > be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to get > to > > once the supply is opened. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short circuit / > > current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current > > consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is > available > > internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the > machine. > > Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal > > instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power > > supply? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > > > > > > > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in > > pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if > this > > quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > > > > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan > > should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional > 40mA > > available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since > there's > > options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > > > > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on > > this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan > off > > the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a > resistor. > > There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a > > linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching > > stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat-- > but > > we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice > > regarding > > > replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > > > > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V (BetaSL > 60 > > > mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and > other > > > specs are not readily available. > > > > > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is the > > > Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 > > > CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). > > > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > > > > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both > 60 > > mm > > > and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all are > 12 > > > V.D.C. > > > > > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the > > > alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on > the > > > 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > > > > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the > > > existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top > > down > > > (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the > > > process? > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > 76/D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1100921154/A=2434970/R=0/SIG=11edksnh > > v/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185402> click here > > > > > M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2434970/rand=703026 > > 098> > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #480 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 5:41 am Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Cary, Thanks so much for the great information. I found the German PDF page you mention. The Matsushita ASF64372 has an air flow of approximately 12 CFM, so the SilenX SX-060-12, at 13 CFM, should work, and at 12 dBA, it would be almost silent. I'll follow your instructions regarding checking the heat as the APR runs. The SilenX fan runs at 12V, so I'll need to try the 7812 regulator approach. If you have any recommendations regarding this approach, I'd love to have your input. Thanks very much for posting the instructions for removing the power supply. A great help, indeed! Regards, Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Paul, > > Unfortunately there is no 12V rail inside the power supply. Instead > of regulating 24V to 12V, you can use the 15V rail on the RGD > board. I used to know the specs on the BetaSL fan, but not > anymore. Sony switched to a Masushita SF60 (pt# ASF64372) as a > quieter 24V replacement in the mid '90's. You can try and find the > specs on that fan. A google search on the part number yielded a > German PDF page which had the CFM specs in metric. Maybe you can > make heads or tails of it. As far as power supply removal goes look > here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/message/104 > > Keep in mind an inadequately cooled power supply will fail and has > the potential of causing fires. You may be able to run a 12V fan on > the 15V without a regulator. I'm not certain about how much current > the replacement fans will draw. The stock fan drew 50mA. You're on > your own with this project. It will help to remove the bottom panel > of the APR during testing. You should run the machine for an hour > or so and feel the bottom of the supply to get an idea as to how hot > it runs. After you install the new fan, gauge the temperature this > way. You'll know when its too hot and it will get hot rather > quickly with an underpowered fan. Good luck. > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > Thank you for your excellent comments, Richard, Scott and Curt. > > > > Scott mentioned that 12V should be available in the 5003 because > of > > the existence of the RS-232 interface. If this is true, would > this > > be the better approach, or would Richard's idea of using a 7812 > > voltage regulator at the 24V source make more sense? > > > > I have been able to confirm that the quietest 60mm fans available > > are made by SilenX and are available in three configurations: > > > > SX-060-08: 12V/1.2W / 1800 RPM / 9 CFM / 8 dBA; > > SX-060-12: 12V/1.2W / 2000 RPM / 13 CFM / 12 dBA; > > SX-060-16: 12V/1.2W / 2400 RPM / 18 CFM / 16 dBA. > > > > (http://www.silenx.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_Z.asp?idCategory=3) > > > > In addition, Papst makes what appears to be the only other quiet > > 60mm fan available: > > > > 612FL: 11.5 > 13.2 V/.4W / 2650 RPM / 11.2 CFM / 16 dBA. > > > > Does anyone have information regarding what CFM might be needed to > > keep the 5003V cool? > > > > My knowledge of electronics is extremely limited, although I enjoy > > learning. Something makes me think, however, that taking semi- > > random stabs at the insides of my 5003V is probably not the best > > place to continue my education. Assuming one of the SilenX fans > has > > the necessary CFM, would someone be willing to put together > detailed > > (i.e., step by step, ideally with photos) instructions for > creating > > a power source for this fan? I would be willing to pay for the > time > > it would take to put these together. > > > > Curt, I looked for your instructions for removing the P/S / fan, > but > > was not able to find them. Would you mind posting these again? > > > > A great article showing how to build a thermal cooling fan > > controller which uses only three parts and costs about $4 is > > available at . The > > controller is unique in that it can be adjusted by the user over a > > wide temperature range, and will switch off the fan completely if > > the temperature is low enough. The article includes photos and > > drawings in place of schematics for us novices. > > > > Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! > > > > Paul > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you > remember > > > the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort > of > > > sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have > > been > > > a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember > without > > > the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by > hand, > > > it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never > > > documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some of > > > Richard's older machines may have this installed if they weren't > > > replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those > NBC > > > machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so > it > > > was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early > > > machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v > > > though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding > > this. > > > > > > At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who > > > complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. > > > > > > I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. > > I'll > > > be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to > get > > to > > > once the supply is opened. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > > wrote: > > > > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short > circuit / > > > current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The current > > > consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is > > available > > > internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the > > machine. > > > Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal > > > instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power > > > supply? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful in > > > pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if > > this > > > quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > > > > > > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan > > > should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional > > 40mA > > > available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since > > there's > > > options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > > > > > > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on > > > this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan > > off > > > the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a > > resistor. > > > There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a > > > linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching > > > stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat- - > > but > > > we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice > > > regarding > > > > replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > > > > > > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V > (BetaSL > > 60 > > > > mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and > > other > > > > specs are not readily available. > > > > > > > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is > the > > > > Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 > > > > CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB(A). > > > > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > > > > > > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes both > > 60 > > > mm > > > > and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all > are > > 12 > > > > V.D.C. > > > > > > > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the > > > > alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere on > > the > > > > 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > > > > > > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the > > > > existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the top > > > down > > > > (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in the > > > > process? > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 76/D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1100921154/A=2434970/R=0/SIG=11edksnh > > > v/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185402> click here > > > > > > > > > M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2434970/rand=703026 > > > 098> > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #481 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 2:03 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email Paul, IIRC you'll need to keep the bypass caps -- both in and out -- close to the regulator with short leads. They need great HF performance to keep the thing stable. Cheers, Richard At 10:41 AM 12/3/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Cary, > >Thanks so much for the great information. I found the German PDF >page you mention. The Matsushita ASF64372 has an air flow of >approximately 12 CFM, so the SilenX SX-060-12, at 13 CFM, should >work, and at 12 dBA, it would be almost silent. I'll follow your >instructions regarding checking the heat as the APR runs. > >The SilenX fan runs at 12V, so I'll need to try the 7812 regulator >approach. If you have any recommendations regarding this approach, >I'd love to have your input. > >Thanks very much for posting the instructions for removing the power >supply. A great help, indeed! > >Regards, > >Paul Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #482 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Dec 4, 2004 3:54 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email Paul, Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that you can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that has a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport system, not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build a breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out and feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain of is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the APR. I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a try if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not as noisy as some of my computers. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > Cary, > > Thanks so much for the great information. I found the German PDF > page you mention. The Matsushita ASF64372 has an air flow of > approximately 12 CFM, so the SilenX SX-060-12, at 13 CFM, should > work, and at 12 dBA, it would be almost silent. I'll follow your > instructions regarding checking the heat as the APR runs. > > The SilenX fan runs at 12V, so I'll need to try the 7812 regulator > approach. If you have any recommendations regarding this approach, > I'd love to have your input. > > Thanks very much for posting the instructions for removing the power > supply. A great help, indeed! > > Regards, > > Paul > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Paul, > > > > Unfortunately there is no 12V rail inside the power supply. > Instead > > of regulating 24V to 12V, you can use the 15V rail on the RGD > > board. I used to know the specs on the BetaSL fan, but not > > anymore. Sony switched to a Masushita SF60 (pt# ASF64372) as a > > quieter 24V replacement in the mid '90's. You can try and find the > > specs on that fan. A google search on the part number yielded a > > German PDF page which had the CFM specs in metric. Maybe you can > > make heads or tails of it. As far as power supply removal goes look > > here: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/message/104 > > > > Keep in mind an inadequately cooled power supply will fail and has > > the potential of causing fires. You may be able to run a 12V fan > on > > the 15V without a regulator. I'm not certain about how much > current > > the replacement fans will draw. The stock fan drew 50mA. You're > on > > your own with this project. It will help to remove the bottom panel > > of the APR during testing. You should run the machine for an hour > > or so and feel the bottom of the supply to get an idea as to how > hot > > it runs. After you install the new fan, gauge the temperature this > > way. You'll know when its too hot and it will get hot rather > > quickly with an underpowered fan. Good luck. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > > > Thank you for your excellent comments, Richard, Scott and Curt. > > > > > > Scott mentioned that 12V should be available in the 5003 because > > of > > > the existence of the RS-232 interface. If this is true, would > > this > > > be the better approach, or would Richard's idea of using a 7812 > > > voltage regulator at the 24V source make more sense? > > > > > > I have been able to confirm that the quietest 60mm fans available > > > are made by SilenX and are available in three configurations: > > > > > > SX-060-08: 12V/1.2W / 1800 RPM / 9 CFM / 8 dBA; > > > SX-060-12: 12V/1.2W / 2000 RPM / 13 CFM / 12 dBA; > > > SX-060-16: 12V/1.2W / 2400 RPM / 18 CFM / 16 dBA. > > > > > > (http://www.silenx.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_Z.asp? idCategory=3) > > > > > > In addition, Papst makes what appears to be the only other quiet > > > 60mm fan available: > > > > > > 612FL: 11.5 > 13.2 V/.4W / 2650 RPM / 11.2 CFM / 16 dBA. > > > > > > Does anyone have information regarding what CFM might be needed > to > > > keep the 5003V cool? > > > > > > My knowledge of electronics is extremely limited, although I > enjoy > > > learning. Something makes me think, however, that taking semi- > > > random stabs at the insides of my 5003V is probably not the best > > > place to continue my education. Assuming one of the SilenX fans > > has > > > the necessary CFM, would someone be willing to put together > > detailed > > > (i.e., step by step, ideally with photos) instructions for > > creating > > > a power source for this fan? I would be willing to pay for the > > time > > > it would take to put these together. > > > > > > Curt, I looked for your instructions for removing the P/S / fan, > > but > > > was not able to find them. Would you mind posting these again? > > > > > > A great article showing how to build a thermal cooling fan > > > controller which uses only three parts and costs about $4 is > > > available at . > The > > > controller is unique in that it can be adjusted by the user over > a > > > wide temperature range, and will switch off the fan completely if > > > the temperature is low enough. The article includes photos and > > > drawings in place of schematics for us novices. > > > > > > Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > I think using a 7812 would work just fine. Scott, do you > > remember > > > > the first prototypes of the APR's used a 12v fan with some sort > > of > > > > sub board in the power supply to kick start it? It could have > > > been > > > > a 12V regulator, but I can't remember. I seem to remember > > without > > > > the board the fan wouldn't start up, unless you turned it by > > hand, > > > > it was more than a startup capacitor though. This was never > > > > documented in the manuals either. I'll bet that perhaps some > of > > > > Richard's older machines may have this installed if they > weren't > > > > replaced in the factory prior to shipping. Each one of those > > NBC > > > > machines was reworked about 50 times before we shipped them so > > it > > > > was hard to keep track of all the changes made to those early > > > > machines. I can't remember why it was changed from 12v to 24v > > > > though. Let me see if I have any technical bulletins regarding > > > this. > > > > > > > > At one point, we shipped quieter 24v fans out to customers who > > > > complained the loudest. It never was an "official" mod though. > > > > > > > > I posted directions for removal of the P/S a few months back. > > > I'll > > > > be glad to post it again if needed. The fan is pretty easy to > > get > > > to > > > > once the supply is opened. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > > > > wrote: > > > > > I like the 7812 idea myself, as it is internally short > > circuit / > > > > current / temperature limited... a useful safeguard. The > current > > > > consumption should not be a problem. I think 12 volts is > > > available > > > > internally anyway, since there is RS-232 running around the > > > machine. > > > > Cary, what do you think ? ..didn't you (Cary) post removal > > > > instructions some time ago on this list, at least for the power > > > > supply? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@r...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 9:25 PM > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Replacing the 5003V cooling fan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a useful thread! So far, I have not been successful > in > > > > pulling out a fan. I know I will have to do it someday--and if > > > this > > > > quiet mod is useful, I may do it to my main machines. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thought. If the 24V fan takes 40mA, then the 12V fan > > > > should draw less than 80mA. I wonder if there is an additional > > > 40mA > > > > available in the power supply? Somehow, I suspect so, since > > > there's > > > > options for driving remotes with indicators on them. > > > > > > > > > > So, if we agree (and we should get the factory guys' input on > > > > this) we could always use a 7812 type regulator and run the fan > > > off > > > > the 24V supply with regulated 12V or we could use a > > > resistor. > > > > There's no downside to the resistor thermally, as the 7812 is a > > > > linear device. Someone really clever could design a switching > > > > stepdown regulator that would not dissipate 80mA at 12V as heat- > - > > > but > > > > we're only talking a watt of dissipation. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > At 01:07 AM 11/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to offer advice > > > > regarding > > > > > replacing the 5003V cooling fan with a quieter version? > > > > > > > > > > Apparently, the exact model NIDEC fan used in the 5003V > > (BetaSL > > > 60 > > > > > mm / 24 V.D.C. / .04 AMP) is no longer made, so air flow and > > > other > > > > > specs are not readily available. > > > > > > > > > > The quietest 24 V.D.C. fan that I have been able to find is > > the > > > > > Papst 8414NGL, an 80 mm fan with an air flow of 19.4 > > > > > CFM, a nominal speed of 1500, and a noise level of 12 dB (A). > > > > > ( http://www.papst.de/english/products_luefter_dcaxial01.html) > > > > > > > > > > Both Papst and SilenX make quiet 60 mm fans (SilenX makes > both > > > 60 > > > > mm > > > > > and 80 mm fans that run as quiet as 8 and 9 dB(A)), but all > > are > > > 12 > > > > > V.D.C. > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to retrofit an 80 mm fan to the 5003V? In the > > > > > alternative, is a 12 V.D.C. power source available anywhere > on > > > the > > > > > 5003V that could be used to run a 60 mm fan? > > > > > > > > > > Finally, can someone recommend a strategy for getting at the > > > > > existing fan, which appears to only be accessible from the > top > > > > down > > > > > (?), without misaligning or otherwise wrecking anything in > the > > > > > process? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > Paul McCulloh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 76/D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1100921154/A=2434970/R=0/SIG=11edksnh > > > > v/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185402> click here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2434970/rand=703026 > > > > 098> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of > > > > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #483 From: twjolly@... Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 2:21 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... twjjolly Offline Send Email This is a great resource and I personally appreciate all of the contributors input, having learned a great deal so far! I have an APR 5003 that is now starting to 'creep' to a stop in the final few increments of rewinding to a 'locate' position. This is also happening in normal rewind and fast forward operation, but to a lesser degree. I also notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. Any ideas as where to begin looking for the problem? Is this related to braking or another area? Thanks for your input! Regards, Ted Jolly GRS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #484 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 8:00 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... masteringman... Offline Send Email Ted Jolly: > I also notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. You need to adjust the offset pots on the torque board. Please read the manual for a n explanation -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #485 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 10:11 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...this is a APR-5003, right ? In that case there isn't a torque board. From: Goran Finnberg [mailto:mastering@...] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... Ted Jolly: > I also notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. You need to adjust the offset pots on the torque board. Please read the manual for a n explanation -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #486 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 7:55 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... ladewd Offline Send Email Ted, The one thing I've noticed with the APR's is that when the tension isn't correct, the locate process gets a bit sloppy. The fact that it only happens when the machine has been on a while, may indicate some trouble coming your way on the RMD (reel motor driver) board. We all know just how hot these boards can run, but is yours running unusaly hot? I would check the tensions and do the RMD offset adjustment in the manual and see if that buys you anything. Are you locating to time code or just the tape position counter? In locate mode, when using time code, the APR uses the tach to interpolate the time code which is present on the tape. It won't actually read the TC until it begins to slow to a stop. If there is an error in calculations from where the machine thinks it is as opposed to what it reads off the tape, the machine will creep slowly until the TC and the internal counter are the same. This can be remedied by adjusting the two phases of the tach on the the TTS roller. There should be instructions how to do this in the manual. While you're at it, adjust the tachs on the two reel motors as well. Whenever the machine's transport functions start to get sloppy, the tachs are always suspect. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > This is a great resource and I personally appreciate all of the contributors > input, having learned a great deal so far! > > I have an APR 5003 that is now starting to 'creep' to a stop in the final > few increments of rewinding to a 'locate' position. This is also happening in > normal rewind and fast forward operation, but to a lesser degree. I also > notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. > > Any ideas as where to begin looking for the problem? Is this related to > braking or another area? > > Thanks for your input! > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > GRS Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #487 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 8:43 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: 1) The Mouser data sheet (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these will I want to use? 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor and a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak of, Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser catalog lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) voltage? 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" power supply? Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is faulty or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had to resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > Paul, > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that you > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that has > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport system, > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build a > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out and > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain of > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the APR. > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a try > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not as > noisy as some of my computers. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #488 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 8:58 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan allegrosound Offline Send Email All 5002/5003's I've used have noisy-fans; definitely not audiophile-approved. If someone can come up with a retro-kit with step-by-step instruction, I would guess there's at least 10 people on this site who would pay $50-100 for it; you've got 3 already; any more takers??? Paul McCulloh wrote: Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: 1) The Mouser data sheet (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these will I want to use? 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor and a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak of, Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser catalog lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) voltage? 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" power supply? Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is faulty or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had to resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > Paul, > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that you > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that has > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport system, > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build a > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out and > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain of > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the APR. > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a try > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not as > noisy as some of my computers. > > Cary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #489 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 9:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... eddieaudio Offline Send Email I just recently serviced two RMD boards, both were oscillating like nobody's business. I changed the base-collector caps on the output transistors - made 'em a bit bigger. I also relocated the 78xx / 79xx regulators to the heat sink. The caps around those regulators were also changed. ec At 06:55 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote: Ted, The one thing I've noticed with the APR's is that when the tension isn't correct, the locate process gets a bit sloppy. The fact that it only happens when the machine has been on a while, may indicate some trouble coming your way on the RMD (reel motor driver) board. We all know just how hot these boards can run, but is yours running unusaly hot? I would check the tensions and do the RMD offset adjustment in the manual and see if that buys you anything. Are you locating to time code or just the tape position counter? In locate mode, when using time code, the APR uses the tach to interpolate the time code which is present on the tape. It won't actually read the TC until it begins to slow to a stop. If there is an error in calculations from where the machine thinks it is as opposed to what it reads off the tape, the machine will creep slowly until the TC and the internal counter are the same. This can be remedied by adjusting the two phases of the tach on the the TTS roller. There should be instructions how to do this in the manual. While you're at it, adjust the tachs on the two reel motors as well. Whenever the machine's transport functions start to get sloppy, the tachs are always suspect. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > This is a great resource and I personally appreciate all of the contributors > input, having learned a great deal so far! > > I have an APR 5003 that is now starting to 'creep' to a stop in the final > few increments of rewinding to a 'locate' position. This is also happening in > normal rewind and fast forward operation, but to a lesser degree. I also > notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. > > Any ideas as where to begin looking for the problem? Is this related to > braking or another area? > > Thanks for your input! > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > GRS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #490 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 9:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:43 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > >Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > >1) The Mouser data sheet >(http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several >versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these >will I want to use? The same basic circuit (probably even the same die) with different heat sinking. The TO-220 is probably the best bet (and overkill), but the TO-3 is bigger yet (that's the diamond shaped "transistor" package you see on big audio power amps). The max current should vary for each package. But with and without heatsink also is an issue. I was actually thinking about the TO-92 version, but you didn't mention that. The TO-220 is a .35 inch square more or less with a tab and 3 leads coming down. >2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which >is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor and >a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, They suppress AC in and out and also bypass any AC from the leads to ground. They basically keep the circuit stable and keep it from oscillating. >and why >these particular values? Because they say so. >Are these the "bypass caps" you speak of, >Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? Yes > The Mouser catalog >lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I >identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor >voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) >voltage? Not exactly, for long life I would pick a 25-35V high temperature, low inductance electrolytic or tantalum for the input cap and a 35-100V film cap for the output. >3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD >board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I >couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing >fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" power >supply? Isn't the regular power supply 24V? If so, then you need to use at least a 35V cap on the input (to be safe) and you'll be dissipating more power in the 7812, but since you'll be getting the TO-220 version, that should be fine. You may want to mount a heatsink on it, but be warned the tab is hot (and I don't know which terminal). There are insulation kits that allow heat transfer without contact, but they're tricky to use. >Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is faulty >or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had to >resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. No, I think the value engineering guys got to Scott's and team's good design and bought surplus fans from Pratt and Whitney. They weren't quite big enough for today's planes, so they got in the APRs instead . If your fan is screaming, however, and then getting quieter, it may need lubrication. The fan is an artifact of the compact package of the APR, but I know of no other table-top pro tape recorder of the APR performance level. If you look on my Web site, http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm you'll see it on my desk. I now am using stands... Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #491 From: twjolly@... Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 5:32 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Goran and Scot for your replies..., Yes, this is an APR 5003...no torque board that I know of. Regards, Ted In a message dated 12/6/2004 1:16:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:11:47 -0600 From: "Scott Phillips" Subject: RE: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... ...this is a APR-5003, right ? In that case there isn't a torque board. ________________________________ From: Goran Finnberg [mailto:mastering@...] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... Ted Jolly: > I also notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. You need to adjust the offset pots on the torque board. Please read the manual for a n explanation -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #492 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 11:13 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > I just recently serviced two RMD boards, both were oscillating like > nobody's business. I changed the base-collector caps on the output > transistors - made 'em a bit bigger. I also relocated the 78xx / 79xx > regulators to the heat sink. The caps around those regulators were also > changed. Yep. Replacing those caps is the key. Those boards can be nasty, but if you use your best judgement and replace all the blown components and anything else that's brown (like the caps), they usually work. Good idea about relocating the regulators. I have an extra one I can try it on. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #493 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 11:30 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email Paul, I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have to deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you can try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you should be ok. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these > will I want to use? > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor and > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak of, > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser catalog > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > voltage? > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" power > supply? > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is faulty > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had to > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. > > Paul > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > Paul, > > > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that > you > > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that > has > > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport system, > > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build a > > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out > and > > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain of > > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the > APR. > > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a try > > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not as > > noisy as some of my computers. > > > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #494 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 11:52 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email OK, the Pabst fan is running at 0.4W if I read your message correctly (plz put a "0" before the decimal point). So at 12V 0.4W is I = P/E = 0.4/12 or 33 mA of current. If it's 33mA save all the trouble and use a dropping resistor. It will be the same heat (the 7812 is not energy efficient, just stable (with the capacitors--don't ask me how I know). So if you've got a 24V supply and a 12V fan and it draws 33mA. You need to figure out the resistance to put in series. Since you need to drop 12V, we'll also figure out the resistance of the fan. R = E/I or R = 12/0.033 = 364 ohms. Use a 330 resistor. Since we know the fan is 0.4W the resistor will also dissipate 0.4W (but if you use a different voltage, just calculate P=IE or 0.033*12 or 0.4W So, I would try and find a 2W resistor and just do it. Am I crazy, Cary? Cheers, Richard At 04:30 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Paul, > >I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have to >deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you can >try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you should >be ok. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several > > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these > > will I want to use? > > > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which > > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor >and > > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why > > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak >of, > > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser >catalog > > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor > > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > > voltage? > > > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD > > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I > > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing > > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" >power > > supply? > > > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is >faulty > > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had >to > > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. > > > > Paul > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > > > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that > > you > > > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that > > has > > > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport >system, > > > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build >a > > > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > > > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out > > and > > > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain >of > > > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the > > APR. > > > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a >try > > > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not >as > > > noisy as some of my computers. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #495 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 12:33 am Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email Hehe, I had started writing that I would just drop the 24v with a resistor, or even perhaps run the fan at the 15v from the RGD board, with a resistor, but I though I should be more conventional, so I erased it. If it was me, I'd try both options before building a regulator. I also figure that even at 15V the fan will probably only run at 18dB, with increased airflow to boot. There certainly seems to be quite a few options here. I would try the simplest first. One of the most helpful things for something like this would be to build a power cable to molex connector so you can run the supply out of the machine. I'd also put a fuse in it. This way you can work with the fan on the bench. Just make sure the pinout is correct or sparks will fly. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > OK, the Pabst fan is running at 0.4W if I read your message correctly (plz > put a "0" before the decimal point). > > So at 12V 0.4W is I = P/E = 0.4/12 or 33 mA of current. > > If it's 33mA save all the trouble and use a dropping resistor. It will be > the same heat (the 7812 is not energy efficient, just stable (with the > capacitors--don't ask me how I know). > > So if you've got a 24V supply and a 12V fan and it draws 33mA. You need to > figure out the resistance to put in series. Since you need to drop 12V, > we'll also figure out the resistance of the fan. > > R = E/I or R = 12/0.033 = 364 ohms. Use a 330 resistor. Since we know the > fan is 0.4W the resistor will also dissipate 0.4W (but if you use a > different voltage, just calculate P=IE or 0.033*12 or 0.4W > > So, I would try and find a 2W resistor and just do it. > > Am I crazy, Cary? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:30 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Paul, > > > >I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have to > >deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you can > >try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you should > >be ok. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > > > > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > > > > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > > > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several > > > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these > > > will I want to use? > > > > > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which > > > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor > >and > > > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why > > > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak > >of, > > > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser > >catalog > > > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > > > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor > > > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > > > voltage? > > > > > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD > > > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I > > > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing > > > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" > >power > > > supply? > > > > > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is > >faulty > > > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had > >to > > > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > > > > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that > > > you > > > > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that > > > has > > > > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport > >system, > > > > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build > >a > > > > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > > > > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out > > > and > > > > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain > >of > > > > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the > > > APR. > > > > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a > >try > > > > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not > >as > > > > noisy as some of my computers. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #496 From: twjolly@... Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 1:26 pm Subject: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Cary and Eddie, Cary, I will check out the tension & RMD board, as suggested. This is where I had planned to look, but wanted some 'more expert' opinions before I got started. I a just loacating to tape position at this time when I notice the 'creep'...but it's now also 'creeping to a 'stop' in the fast wind to a stop command as well as the machine heats up. I'm going to check the fan in th PS too after reading previous posts. The fan is also very noisy and I want to make sure there are no other issues in this are that are making this run hotter than normal too. Eddie, I will take a look at the the regulator with my scope and see what it's doing. Great suggestion! Will check the caps and probably replace with the relocation of the regulator to the heat sink too. Seems that keeping it 'cool' is a good idea anyway. I curious to see if it's also oscillating! Thanks for the help guys! regards, Ted I Wrote: > I have an APR 5003 that is now starting to 'creep' to a stop in the final > few increments of rewinding to a 'locate' position. This is also happening in > normal rewind and fast forward operation, but to a lesser degree. I also > notice that the degree of creep progresses with the length of machine use. > > Any ideas as where to begin looking for the problem? Is this related to > braking or another area? > > Thanks for your input! > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > GRS You wrote: Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:55:07 -0000 From: "ladewd" Subject: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... Ted, The one thing I've noticed with the APR's is that when the tension isn't correct, the locate process gets a bit sloppy. The fact that it only happens when the machine has been on a while, may indicate some trouble coming your way on the RMD (reel motor driver) board. We all know just how hot these boards can run, but is yours running unusaly hot? I would check the tensions and do the RMD offset adjustment in the manual and see if that buys you anything. Are you locating to time code or just the tape position counter? In locate mode, when using time code, the APR uses the tach to interpolate the time code which is present on the tape. It won't actually read the TC until it begins to slow to a stop. If there is an error in calculations from where the machine thinks it is as opposed to what it reads off the tape, the machine will creep slowly until the TC and the internal counter are the same. This can be remedied by adjusting the two phases of the tach on the the TTS roller. There should be instructions how to do this in the manual. While you're at it, adjust the tachs on the two reel motors as well. Whenever the machine's transport functions start to get sloppy, the tachs are always suspect. Cary ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:00:50 -0600 From: eddie ciletti Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003 creeping to stop on locate.... I just recently serviced two RMD boards, both were oscillating like nobody's business. I changed the base-collector caps on the output transistors - made 'em a bit bigger. I also relocated the 78xx / 79xx regulators to the heat sink. The caps around those regulators were also changed. ec Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #497 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 8:53 pm Subject: RE: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Cary, My concern would be that a brushless DC fan is not a resistor itself and doesn’t behave like one. It has both transistor junctions and inductive properties that make it more complex than just an I/R drop. With a series resistor, the moment of startup the transistors in the fan see 24 volts for a moment, not 12, since the voltage drop is a function of current. Problem ? Quite possibly. Maybe not, but of all places to take chances that seems like a lousy place, as hard as it is to get to. Also, what current does the fan actually draw, not what the spec is for the fan? Specs are normally worst-case values, not real world values that will also change with age, and most certainly during the moment of startup. If it were just a magnetic motor without active parts, or a light bulb, then it wouldn’t matter much. I would think the 7812 (or 7912, assuming polarity is adjusted in connections) in a TO-220 package would work well even without a heat sink, and be easier to mount somewhere. Perhaps even on the frame of the fan itself. I think it could be best used on the 15 volt rail. That should be just enough drop across the regulator so that it can stay in regulation….. and better not to have the full 12 volt drop across the regulator unless you need to. An unregulated source DC voltage could also be found in the supply to run the fan if a 7812 is used as long as the total voltage difference across the regulator doesn’t exceed the max rating of the device. These 3 terminal regulators have very good ripple rejection all by themselves, and it does provide the ultimate decoupling from the other boards if used this way. Likely this extreme isn’t needed in any case, but if using the 15v or 24v is, then it is a reasonable course of action…. ….just a thought…. Scott From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:34 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan Hehe, I had started writing that I would just drop the 24v with a resistor, or even perhaps run the fan at the 15v from the RGD board, with a resistor, but I though I should be more conventional, so I erased it. If it was me, I'd try both options before building a regulator. I also figure that even at 15V the fan will probably only run at 18dB, with increased airflow to boot. There certainly seems to be quite a few options here. I would try the simplest first. One of the most helpful things for something like this would be to build a power cable to molex connector so you can run the supply out of the machine. I'd also put a fuse in it. This way you can work with the fan on the bench. Just make sure the pinout is correct or sparks will fly. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > OK, the Pabst fan is running at 0.4W if I read your message correctly (plz > put a "0" before the decimal point). > > So at 12V 0.4W is I = P/E = 0.4/12 or 33 mA of current. > > If it's 33mA save all the trouble and use a dropping resistor. It will be > the same heat (the 7812 is not energy efficient, just stable (with the > capacitors--don't ask me how I know). > > So if you've got a 24V supply and a 12V fan and it draws 33mA. You need to > figure out the resistance to put in series. Since you need to drop 12V, > we'll also figure out the resistance of the fan. > > R = E/I or R = 12/0.033 = 364 ohms. Use a 330 resistor. Since we know the > fan is 0.4W the resistor will also dissipate 0.4W (but if you use a > different voltage, just calculate P=IE or 0.033*12 or 0.4W > > So, I would try and find a 2W resistor and just do it. > > Am I crazy, Cary? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:30 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Paul, > > > >I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have to > >deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you can > >try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you should > >be ok. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > > > > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > > > > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > > > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several > > > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these > > > will I want to use? > > > > > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which > > > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor > >and > > > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why > > > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak > >of, > > > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser > >catalog > > > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > > > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor > > > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > > > voltage? > > > > > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD > > > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I > > > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing > > > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" > >power > > > supply? > > > > > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is > >faulty > > > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had > >to > > > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > > > > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that > > > you > > > > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that > > > has > > > > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport > >system, > > > > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build > >a > > > > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > > > > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out > > > and > > > > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain > >of > > > > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the > > > APR. > > > > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a > >try > > > > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not > >as > > > > noisy as some of my computers. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #498 From: "Rick@..." Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 9:05 pm Subject: RE: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan allegrosound Offline Send Email one could use a 120v AC fan and, if needed, slow it down with a series film cap. Scott Phillips wrote: Cary, My concern would be that a brushless DC fan is not a resistor itself and doesn’t behave like one. It has both transistor junctions and inductive properties that make it more complex than just an I/R drop. With a series resistor, the moment of startup the transistors in the fan see 24 volts for a moment, not 12, since the voltage drop is a function of current. Problem ? Quite possibly. Maybe not, but of all places to take chances that seems like a lousy place, as hard as it is to get to. Also, what current does the fan actually draw, not what the spec is for the fan? Specs are normally worst-case values, not real world values that will also change with age, and most certainly during the moment of startup. If it were just a magnetic motor without active parts, or a light bulb, then it wouldn’t matter much. I would think the 7812 (or 7912, assuming polarity is adjusted in connections) in a TO-220 package would work well even without a heat sink, and be easier to mount somewhere. Perhaps even on the frame of the fan itself. I think it could be best used on the 15 volt rail. That should be just enough drop across the regulator so that it can stay in regulation….. and better not to have the full 12 volt drop across the regulator unless you need to. An unregulated source DC voltage could also be found in the supply to run the fan if a 7812 is used as long as the total voltage difference across the regulator doesn’t exceed the max rating of the device. These 3 terminal regulators have very good ripple rejection all by themselves, and it does provide the ultimate decoupling from the other boards if used this way. Likely this extreme isn’t needed in any case, but if using the 15v or 24v is, then it is a reasonable course of action…. ….just a thought…. Scott From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:34 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan Hehe, I had started writing that I would just drop the 24v with a resistor, or even perhaps run the fan at the 15v from the RGD board, with a resistor, but I though I should be more conventional, so I erased it. If it was me, I'd try both options before building a regulator. I also figure that even at 15V the fan will probably only run at 18dB, with increased airflow to boot. There certainly seems to be quite a few options here. I would try the simplest first. One of the most helpful things for something like this would be to build a power cable to molex connector so you can run the supply out of the machine. I'd also put a fuse in it. This way you can work with the fan on the bench. Just make sure the pinout is correct or sparks will fly. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > OK, the Pabst fan is running at 0.4W if I read your message correctly (plz > put a "0" before the decimal point). > > So at 12V 0.4W is I = P/E = 0.4/12 or 33 mA of current. > > If it's 33mA save all the trouble and use a dropping resistor. It will be > the same heat (the 7812 is not energy efficient, just stable (with the > capacitors--don't ask me how I know). > > So if you've got a 24V supply and a 12V fan and it draws 33mA. You need to > figure out the resistance to put in series. Since you need to drop 12V, > we'll also figure out the resistance of the fan. > > R = E/I or R = 12/0.033 = 364 ohms. Use a 330 resistor. Since we know the > fan is 0.4W the resistor will also dissipate 0.4W (but if you use a > different voltage, just calculate P=IE or 0.033*12 or 0.4W > > So, I would try and find a 2W resistor and just do it. > > Am I crazy, Cary? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:30 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Paul, > > > >I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have to > >deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you can > >try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you should > >be ok. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > > > > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > > > > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > > > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows several > > > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of these > > > will I want to use? > > > > > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly (which > > > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input capacitor > >and > > > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and why > > > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak > >of, > > > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser > >catalog > > > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > > > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the capacitor > > > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > > > voltage? > > > > > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the RGD > > > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask why I > > > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the existing > > > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" > >power > > > supply? > > > > > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is > >faulty > > > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I had > >to > > > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting off. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > > > > > > > Nothing special. Go to the Mouser webpage and look up the data > > > > sheet on this regulator. There should be a sample circuit that > > > you > > > > can build. Look in the manual for the RGD board, I believe that > > > has > > > > a 15v output. This is the 15v that goes to the transport > >system, > > > > not the audio. Use the ground on the same connector, and build > >a > > > > breadboard of the regulator circuit and hang the fan off of it. > > > > Sounds like a worthwhile project. Let me know how it turns out > > > and > > > > feel free to ask any questions. The only thing I'm not certain > >of > > > > is how much currrent is available on the 15v regulator in the > > > APR. > > > > I would imagine the fan wouldn't draw too much, so its worth a > >try > > > > if the fan noise is that objectionable to you. For me its not > >as > > > > noisy as some of my computers. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #499 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 9:12 pm Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Cary and Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to so thoroughly answer my questions. Thanks also, Richard, for the excellent information and equations regarding determining current and resistance. Regarding the specs on the Papst 60mm fan: unfortunately, I think the air flow on this fan may be too low. It's only 11.2 CFM, and the specs on the Matsushita ASF6 (per Cary, used as a quieter replacement for the original NIDEC BetaSL) show an air flow of 12 CFM. The Silenx SX-60-12 60mm fan should work, however (12V/1.2W). It produces 13 CFM and draws 100 mA, according to the equations Richard supplied (plus is supposedly 25% quieter than the Papst). Wouldn't this be better, anyways, since only 120 ohms resistance would be required to reduce the 24V to 12V, compared to the 330 ohms required for the Papst, or does the higher current draw create another issue? Alternatively, only 30 ohms would be required to reduce the 15V RGD supply to 12V. Richard, in your notes on the Papst, you state that 364 ohms resistance would be needed to reduce 24V to 12V at 33 mA and say to use a 330 resistor. That makes sense. You then say to find a 2 Watt resistor. How do I relate (2) watts to (330) ohms? One question that keeps coming to mind: Is there room on the PSU chassis to replace the 60mm fan with an 80mm fan? Papst makes an 80mm fan that runs at 24V with a noise level of 12 dBA - some say it is the quietest 80mm fan available. It also has an air flow of 33 CFM! If there is room to mount an 80mm fan, I'd enlarge the hole in the aluminum to fit. If there is not room next to the PSU, could an 80mm fan perhaps be mounted beneath the fan hole, to draw air down and out? If the Papst 80mm (24V/58 mA) fan could be used, would it run at 63% of normal speed if the 15V RGD supply were used in place of the 24V supply? If so, that should still provide plenty of air flow, and the slower speed would make it that much quieter. Cary, thanks for your suggestion re building a power cable to molex connector for running the supply out of the machine. What size/type of fuse would you use? Is the pinout available in the APR 5003V manual schematics? Regards, Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Hehe, > > I had started writing that I would just drop the 24v with a > resistor, or even perhaps run the fan at the 15v from the RGD board, > with a resistor, but I though I should be more conventional, so I > erased it. If it was me, I'd try both options before building a > regulator. I also figure that even at 15V the fan will probably > only run at 18dB, with increased airflow to boot. There certainly > seems to be quite a few options here. I would try the simplest > first. > > One of the most helpful things for something like this would be to > build a power cable to molex connector so you can run the supply out > of the machine. I'd also put a fuse in it. This way you can work > with the fan on the bench. Just make sure the pinout is correct or > sparks will fly. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > OK, the Pabst fan is running at 0.4W if I read your message > correctly (plz > > put a "0" before the decimal point). > > > > So at 12V 0.4W is I = P/E = 0.4/12 or 33 mA of current. > > > > If it's 33mA save all the trouble and use a dropping resistor. It > will be > > the same heat (the 7812 is not energy efficient, just stable (with > the > > capacitors--don't ask me how I know). > > > > So if you've got a 24V supply and a 12V fan and it draws 33mA. You > need to > > figure out the resistance to put in series. Since you need to drop > 12V, > > we'll also figure out the resistance of the fan. > > > > R = E/I or R = 12/0.033 = 364 ohms. Use a 330 resistor. Since we > know the > > fan is 0.4W the resistor will also dissipate 0.4W (but if you use > a > > different voltage, just calculate P=IE or 0.033*12 or 0.4W > > > > So, I would try and find a 2W resistor and just do it. > > > > Am I crazy, Cary? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 04:30 AM 12/7/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > >Paul, > > > > > >I recommended the 15v from the RGD just because you wouldn't have > to > > >deal with too much heat from the regulator itself. Of course you > can > > >try it on the 24v line. Follow Richard's directions and you > should > > >be ok. > > > > > >Cary > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for your comments, Cary and Richard. > > > > > > > > Okay, welcome to Electronics 101, fellas: > > > > > > > > 1) The Mouser data sheet > > > > (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2143.pdf) shows > several > > > > versions of the 7812: TO-220/FP/FM; D2PAK; TO-3. Which of > these > > > > will I want to use? > > > > > > > > 2) If I'm understanding the Mouser sample circuit correctly > (which > > > > is always a shaky supposition), it shows a .33uf input > capacitor > > >and > > > > a .1uf output capacitor. What are these, what do they do, and > why > > > > these particular values? Are these the "bypass caps" you speak > > >of, > > > > Richard, in your comment regarding short leads? The Mouser > > >catalog > > > > lists 624 .33UF capacitors and 1601 .1UF capacitors. How do I > > > > identify the correct version? Am I looking to match the > capacitor > > > > voltage to the corresponding input (15V/24V) and output (12V) > > > > voltage? > > > > > > > > 3) Cary, I note your comment regarding the 15v output on the > RGD > > > > board. My astonishing lack of understanding leads me to ask > why I > > > > couldn't simply attach the regulator circuit between the > existing > > > > fan leads and the new fan, rather than locating an "alternate" > > >power > > > > supply? > > > > > > > > Thanks for all of your help. Perhaps the fan on my 5003V is > > >faulty > > > > or exceptionally noisy, but the first time I started it up, I > had > > >to > > > > resist an urge to leap onto the deck to keep it from lifting > off. > > > > > > > > Paul Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #500 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:12 AM 12/8/2004 +0000, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Cary and Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to so >thoroughly answer my questions. You're welcome! >Thanks also, Richard, for the >excellent information and equations regarding determining current >and resistance. That's Ohm's Law...once you understand that, so many things fall into place. >Regarding the specs on the Papst 60mm fan: unfortunately, I think >the air flow on this fan may be too low. It's only 11.2 CFM, and >the specs on the Matsushita ASF6 (per Cary, used as a quieter >replacement for the original NIDEC BetaSL) show an air flow of 12 >CFM. The Silenx SX-60-12 60mm fan should work, however (12V/1.2W). >It produces 13 CFM and draws 100 mA, according to the equations >Richard supplied (plus is supposedly 25% quieter than the Papst). >Wouldn't this be better, anyways, since only 120 ohms resistance >would be required to reduce the 24V to 12V, compared to the 330 ohms >required for the Papst, or does the higher current draw create >another issue? Alternatively, only 30 ohms would be required to >reduce the 15V RGD supply to 12V. But it's drawing 3.5x the current (or so). >Richard, in your notes on the Papst, you state that 364 ohms >resistance would be needed to reduce 24V to 12V at 33 mA and say to >use a 330 resistor. That makes sense. Yes, 330 is a common value. The next value is 390 and then 470 in the 10% tolerance series. >You then say to find a 2 >Watt resistor. How do I relate (2) watts to (330) ohms? You need two electrical specs for a resistor: The resistance The amount of power it can dissipate Well, you also perhaps need maximum voltage, but that's a non-issue here. >One question that keeps coming to mind: Is there room on the PSU >chassis to replace the 60mm fan with an 80mm fan? Papst makes an >80mm fan that runs at 24V with a noise level of 12 dBA - some say it >is the quietest 80mm fan available. It also has an air flow of 33 >CFM! If there is room to mount an 80mm fan, I'd enlarge the hole in >the aluminum to fit. If there is not room next to the PSU, could an >80mm fan perhaps be mounted beneath the fan hole, to draw air down >and out? THat's almost another inch in diameter (for those of us who still think English even though I'm now living in a metric country). My recollection at looking at the power supply once (and then running screaming) was what kind of shoehorn was that built with? >If the Papst 80mm (24V/58 mA) fan could be used, would it run at 63% >of normal speed if the 15V RGD supply were used in place of the 24V >supply? If so, that should still provide plenty of air flow, and >the slower speed would make it that much quieter. I don't know...Scott, Cary? >Cary, thanks for your suggestion re building a power cable to molex >connector for running the supply out of the machine. What size/type >of fuse would you use? Is the pinout available in the APR 5003V >manual schematics? Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #501 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:49 am Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan ladewd Offline Send Email Paul, All the info you need as far as pinouts etc are in the manual. I think the APR5000 used a 2amp fuse, so use the same size fuse as the machine has. There is no room in the supply for a fan larger than 60mm. Somewhere there's got to be a 24v fan which is quieter than the BetaSL, but since computer fans are so popular, 12V seems to be the norm these days. I wouldn't consider running a 24v fan at 15v, because the cooling vs voltage relationship may not be linear. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #502 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:03 pm Subject: Trial Balloon: Audio Restoration Seminar? Should I do one? richardlhess Offline Send Email This email is to gauge the interest of my running an audio restoration seminar. I've thought long and hard about it, and I think it's an idea worth pursuing, but I'd like to see if there is any interest out there among archivists and recordists. The selection of venue and the size of the group are intertwined. At this point, it looks as if a very small group in my home office and studio might be the best bet. It seems logical to me to make this a three-and-a-half day seminar. This allows for Monday as a travel day, Tuesday-Thursday as full days, and Friday a half day wrap up. Tuesday: Introduction Discussions of what each participant would like to come away with Listening session to show some of the archival challenges Discussion of tape recording basics: track formats, noise reduction, etc. Wednesday: Studio Day One: Hands on evaluating noise reduction playback matching Hands on reel-to-reel adjusting azimuth using tones and "by ear" Introduction to Samplitude, Diamond Cut, and Algorithmix software Thursday: Restoring tapes YOU brought Group dinner included at a local sushi restaurant which also offers cooked and vegetarian-friendly meals Friday Morning: Completing restorations Wrap Up and questions The location would be suburban Toronto, the fifth largest metro area in North America and considered by many to be a great destination. Accommodations would be at a local Howard Johnson's motel (not included in fee). We would provide transportation from the motel to our home studio. To save time, lunch will probably be included, but I'm not sure yet. Probable time would be late April or early May 2005, and annually thereafter if there is interest. Number of participants will probably be limited to six or fewer. So, please let me know if anyone is interested. I've had some people ask if they can they come and work with me for a bit. Please see http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ for what I do. The facility photos are the old Glendale, CA facility. We're in the process of rebuilding but have a lot more space than you see in the photos. If the above outline doesn't do it for you, what would YOU like to have at a seminar of this nature? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #503 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:46 pm Subject: Re: Trial Balloon: Audio Restoration Seminar? Should I do one? eddieaudio Offline Send Email I can't travel, but I'd like to be kept in the loop, whatever happens.. ec At 07:03 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: This email is to gauge the interest of my running an audio restoration seminar. I've thought long and hard about it, and I think it's an idea worth pursuing, but I'd like to see if there is any interest out there among archivists and recordists. The selection of venue and the size of the group are intertwined. At this point, it looks as if a very small group in my home office and studio might be the best bet. It seems logical to me to make this a three-and-a-half day seminar. This allows for Monday as a travel day, Tuesday-Thursday as full days, and Friday a half day wrap up. Tuesday: Introduction Discussions of what each participant would like to come away with Listening session to show some of the archival challenges Discussion of tape recording basics: track formats, noise reduction, etc. Wednesday: Studio Day One: Hands on evaluating noise reduction playback matching Hands on reel-to-reel adjusting azimuth using tones and "by ear" Introduction to Samplitude, Diamond Cut, and Algorithmix software Thursday: Restoring tapes YOU brought Group dinner included at a local sushi restaurant which also offers cooked and vegetarian-friendly meals Friday Morning: Completing restorations Wrap Up and questions The location would be suburban Toronto, the fifth largest metro area in North America and considered by many to be a great destination. Accommodations would be at a local Howard Johnson's motel (not included in fee). We would provide transportation from the motel to our home studio. To save time, lunch will probably be included, but I'm not sure yet. Probable time would be late April or early May 2005, and annually thereafter if there is interest. Number of participants will probably be limited to six or fewer. So, please let me know if anyone is interested. I've had some people ask if they can they come and work with me for a bit. Please see http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ for what I do. The facility photos are the old Glendale, CA facility. We're in the process of rebuilding but have a lot more space than you see in the photos. If the above outline doesn't do it for you, what would YOU like to have at a seminar of this nature? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #504 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:19 pm Subject: RE: Trial Balloon: Audio Restoration Seminar? Should I do one? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I would be VERY interested, although I wouldn’t be able to do it until mid May myself I THINK. I’m a single dad with 2 young kids, so the most difficult thing for me is having the kids looked after. Still, I’d entertain almost any time frame if defined early enough for cheap tickets and I can figure out something with the kids. I’d hate to miss the opportunity in any case. Cost is a question, but I’m sure that you will have some better idea after some other responses and some time to figure things out…. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:04 PM To: Richard L. Hess Subject: [sony_apr] Trial Balloon: Audio Restoration Seminar? Should I do one? This email is to gauge the interest of my running an audio restoration seminar. I've thought long and hard about it, and I think it's an idea worth pursuing, but I'd like to see if there is any interest out there among archivists and recordists. The selection of venue and the size of the group are intertwined. At this point, it looks as if a very small group in my home office and studio might be the best bet. It seems logical to me to make this a three-and-a-half day seminar. This allows for Monday as a travel day, Tuesday-Thursday as full days, and Friday a half day wrap up. Tuesday: Introduction Discussions of what each participant would like to come away with Listening session to show some of the archival challenges Discussion of tape recording basics: track formats, noise reduction, etc. Wednesday: Studio Day One: Hands on evaluating noise reduction playback matching Hands on reel-to-reel adjusting azimuth using tones and "by ear" Introduction to Samplitude, Diamond Cut, and Algorithmix software Thursday: Restoring tapes YOU brought Group dinner included at a local sushi restaurant which also offers cooked and vegetarian-friendly meals Friday Morning: Completing restorations Wrap Up and questions The location would be suburban Toronto, the fifth largest metro area in North America and considered by many to be a great destination. Accommodations would be at a local Howard Johnson's motel (not included in fee). We would provide transportation from the motel to our home studio. To save time, lunch will probably be included, but I'm not sure yet. Probable time would be late April or early May 2005, and annually thereafter if there is interest. Number of participants will probably be limited to six or fewer. So, please let me know if anyone is interested. I've had some people ask if they can they come and work with me for a bit. Please see http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ for what I do. The facility photos are the old Glendale, CA facility. We're in the process of rebuilding but have a lot more space than you see in the photos. If the above outline doesn't do it for you, what would YOU like to have at a seminar of this nature? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #505 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:51 am Subject: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Perhaps, a solution to the replacement cooling fan dilemma?: After reading Cary's response I got to thinking, "He's right, there's *got* to be a quiet 24V fan out there." Lo and behold, Papst makes a quiet 60mm 24V fan after all: The Papst 614NGL (24V/1W) utilizes Sintec "silent-running" bearings to run at a very respectable 16dBA. It has an air flow of 12.4 CFM, which I am hoping makes it an excellent candidate for a replacement fan for the APR5000 series (with no voltage regulator needed!). The Papst 24V fans are fiendishly difficult to locate. (I've been leaving messages with Papst US but they never return my calls.) I finally found them in stock at a company called Galco Industrial Electronics (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM). They are $16.46 each. The catch is that Galco has a $50 minimum order. I'm hoping at least two or three other people might be game to try this as a replacement fan. The Papst name is legendary when it comes to fans, so I think we can count on the quality of the product. If anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll place an order. Another, somewhat bizarre, but potentially even quieter solution occurred to me: Not sure if it would keep the PSU cool enough, but one could remove the existing fan and mount a 60mm to 80mm fan *adapter* (machined aluminum for superior aerodynamics) to the underside (outside) of the PSU chassis at the site of the old fan, and a Papst 8414NGL (24V) 80mm fan upside down on the adapter. The 19.4 CFM air flow of the 8414NGL should be enough to draw the heat away from the PSU from the outside, and it runs at a beatifically quiet *12dBA*. Replace the Papst 80mm fan with a SilenX SX-080-09 80mm fan and a voltage regulator and you've got a solution that supposedly runs at *9 dBA*. (Richard and Cary, check out the 12V voltage regulator with heat sink I stumbled across at a robotics site, of all places, (see below)! It's a 7812 glued to a heat sink - - no capacitors.) Regards, Paul Sources/Prices: *Papst 614NGL 60mm 16dBA fan (24V/1W) ($16.46): www.galco.com *80mm to 60mm Machined Aluminum Fan Adapter ($15.99): www.svc.com *Papst 8414NGL 80 mm 12dBA fan (24V/0.7W) ($15.14): www.galco.com *SilenX SX-080-09 80mm 9dBA Fan (12V/1.2W) ($15.95): www.silenx.com *12V voltage regulator with heat sink ($8.99): http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_elect_other.html --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Paul, > > All the info you need as far as pinouts etc are in the manual. I > think the APR5000 used a 2amp fuse, so use the same size fuse as the > machine has. There is no room in the supply for a fan larger than > 60mm. Somewhere there's got to be a 24v fan which is quieter than > the BetaSL, but since computer fans are so popular, 12V seems to be > the norm these days. I wouldn't consider running a 24v fan at 15v, > because the cooling vs voltage relationship may not be linear. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #506 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:54 am Subject: Re: Re: Replacing the 5003V cooling fan richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Paul, I'll take three. Cheers, Richard The Papst 24V fans are fiendishly difficult to locate. (I've been leaving messages with Papst US but they never return my calls.) I finally found them in stock at a company called Galco Industrial Electronics (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM). They are $16.46 each. The catch is that Galco has a $50 minimum order. I'm hoping at least two or three other people might be game to try this as a replacement fan. The Papst name is legendary when it comes to fans, so I think we can count on the quality of the product. If anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll place an order. Reply | Messages in this Topic (23 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #507 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:35 pm Subject: APR5003 1/2" 2 trk? andy30ips Offline Send Email Did the 5003 ever issue as a 1/2" 2 track model, or were there kits available? Thanks, Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #508 From: OtherWorld Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:38 am Subject: Re: APR5003 1/2" 2 trk? otherworldrec Offline Send Email Andy JRF has 1/2” upgrade kits, all inclusive, with variable head choices. Jrfmagnetics.com is their site. Regards Scott Wilson On 12/17/04 5:35 PM, "Andrew Pennella" wrote: Did the 5003 ever issue as a 1/2" 2 track model, or were there kits available? Thanks, Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #509 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 5:27 pm Subject: Quantegy Situation richardlhess Offline Send Email I apologize for being lax (to the Sony group) of informing y'all of the important events in Opelika, Alabama, starting New Year's eve. As many of you who are on the Ampex list have heard, Quantegy locked their plant and laid off the entire staff. They have been open this week answering the phone and cleaning out product from the warehouses. An announcement is expected soon as to what their restructuring will mean. They have not filed Chapter 11 (U.S. Bankruptcy reorganization) but are in an apparent do-it-yourself reorganization mode without the court. Manufacturing is shut down, but shipping is happening as I understand it. Product is in short supply. Not all products will continue to be manufactured under the restructuring. We've heard reports that GP9 is considered safe. Apparently Mike Spitz of ATR Services is considering making a tape, but please don't call him and ask, it's still months away. Check the Web site from time to time. I'm sure he'll announce it there. This was in the works for months, apparently. http://www.atrservice.com/ The only lines running that we know at this time are JAI in India and Hanny Holdings in Hong Kong. Neither appears to be making a premium tape. The best place to read all the gossip and news is by doing a Google News Search on Quantegy. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=quantegy Not all is accurate. I commend the NPR piece to you, but I'm prejudiced in that I provided the Crosby clip to it, and my friends Jay McKnight and Peter Hammar (former curator of the Ampex Museum) are interviewed. Happy(?) New Year to all. Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #510 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 6:00 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy Situation eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Richard. I forwarded (and downloaded) the NPR piece to several of my friends. I was lucky enough to visit the Ampex museum back in the nineties. Though it was shut down, I weaseled my way in. The Pavek Museum is here in the Twin Cities. I haven't visited yet, but I understand that some of Jack Mullin's stuff is there. ec At 04:27 PM 1/6/2005, you wrote: I apologize for being lax (to the Sony group) of informing y'all of the important events in Opelika, Alabama, starting New Year's eve. As many of you who are on the Ampex list have heard, Quantegy locked their plant and laid off the entire staff. They have been open this week answering the phone and cleaning out product from the warehouses. An announcement is expected soon as to what their restructuring will mean. They have not filed Chapter 11 (U.S. Bankruptcy reorganization) but are in an apparent do-it-yourself reorganization mode without the court. Manufacturing is shut down, but shipping is happening as I understand it. Product is in short supply. Not all products will continue to be manufactured under the restructuring. We've heard reports that GP9 is considered safe. Apparently Mike Spitz of ATR Services is considering making a tape, but please don't call him and ask, it's still months away. Check the Web site from time to time. I'm sure he'll announce it there. This was in the works for months, apparently. http://www.atrservice.com/ The only lines running that we know at this time are JAI in India and Hanny Holdings in Hong Kong. Neither appears to be making a premium tape. The best place to read all the gossip and news is by doing a Google News Search on Quantegy. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=quantegy Not all is accurate. I commend the NPR piece to you, but I'm prejudiced in that I provided the Crosby clip to it, and my friends Jay McKnight and Peter Hammar (former curator of the Ampex Museum) are interviewed. Happy(?) New Year to all. Richard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #511 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 5:14 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy Situation mooseaudio Offline Send Email In a message dated 1/6/05 5:33:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, arclists@... writes: I apologize for being lax (to the Sony group) of informing y'all of the important events in Opelika, Alabama, starting New Year's eve. As many of you who are on the Ampex list have heard, Quantegy locked their plant and laid off the entire staff. They have been open this week answering the phone and cleaning out product from the warehouses. An announcement is expected soon as to what their restructuring will mean. They have not filed Chapter 11 (U.S. Bankruptcy reorganization) but are in an apparent do-it-yourself reorganization mode without the court. Manufacturing is shut down, but shipping is happening as I understand it. Product is in short supply. Not all products will continue to be manufactured under the restructuring. Interesting. Doesn't Citibank still own them or the majority of the company? -Jay Kahrs Mad Moose Recording Morris Plains, NJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #512 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:42 pm Subject: Fred Layn's post on the Studer list re: Quantegy richardlhess Offline Send Email Fred Layn just posted on the Studer List some interesting news. --He just talked to Steve Smith who had retired from Quantegy October 1 --Smith continued as a consultant until December --There were cash flow problems due to the decline of videotape sales and insufficient funds to pay for raw materials. --DuPont had stopped making 1.5 mil basefilm --Flanges had quadrupled in price in the last six years --Oxide manufacturers weren't real interested in supplying small quantities of audio oxides --Apparently Ampex sold 250,000 reels of two-inch in 1992. Quantegy sold 2,500 in 2004. --Investors apparently bought two coating lines from Emtec and are planning to manufacture in the Netherlands. --"Quantegy will not rise again." Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #513 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:51 pm Subject: Re: Fred Layn's post on the Studer list re: Quantegy eddieaudio Offline Send Email Whoa! That's pretty intense. At 08:42 PM 1/11/2005, you wrote: Fred Layn just posted on the Studer List some interesting news. --He just talked to Steve Smith who had retired from Quantegy October 1 --Smith continued as a consultant until December --There were cash flow problems due to the decline of videotape sales and insufficient funds to pay for raw materials. --DuPont had stopped making 1.5 mil basefilm --Flanges had quadrupled in price in the last six years --Oxide manufacturers weren't real interested in supplying small quantities of audio oxides --Apparently Ampex sold 250,000 reels of two-inch in 1992. Quantegy sold 2,500 in 2004. --Investors apparently bought two coating lines from Emtec and are planning to manufacture in the Netherlands. --"Quantegy will not rise again." Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #514 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:21 pm Subject: Quantegy files Chapter 11 richardlhess Offline Send Email According to a report in today's Wall Street Journal, Quantegy filed chapter 11. It was also reported elsewhere that apparently the EMTEC manufacturing equipment brought to the Netherlands is being used solely for cassette (0.150) tape width. Of course, there is the potential for a true restructuring coming out of the Chapter 11 filing, and there is the possibility that the WSJ is mistaken and just picking up the older, erroneous AP story, but I don't think so. Sorry for the cross-posting, thought everyone would like to know. Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #515 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:32 pm Subject: RE: Quantegy files Chapter 11 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..hard to believe that someone, somewhere, won't pick this up. Will this also apply to DAT tape as well? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:21 PM To: richard@... Subject: [sony_apr] Quantegy files Chapter 11 According to a report in today's Wall Street Journal, Quantegy filed chapter 11. It was also reported elsewhere that apparently the EMTEC manufacturing equipment brought to the Netherlands is being used solely for cassette (0.150) tape width. Of course, there is the potential for a true restructuring coming out of the Chapter 11 filing, and there is the possibility that the WSJ is mistaken and just picking up the older, erroneous AP story, but I don't think so. Sorry for the cross-posting, thought everyone would like to know. Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #516 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:40 pm Subject: RE: Quantegy files Chapter 11 richardlhess Offline Send Email Scott, I've been buying Maxell DAT (DDS) tape so long, I forgot that Quantegy ever made it. I think the problems apply to all Quantegy-branded (and made) products. Not good news for the analog recording world. Let's see what ATR Services comes up with, though I'm skeptical that starting up a new tape line is worth it. Richard At 12:32 PM 1/12/2005 -0600, you wrote: >..hard to believe that someone, somewhere, won't pick this up. Will this >also apply to DAT tape as well? > > >---------- >From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] >Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:21 PM >To: richard@... >Subject: [sony_apr] Quantegy files Chapter 11 > >According to a report in today's Wall Street Journal, Quantegy filed >chapter 11. > >It was also reported elsewhere that apparently the EMTEC manufacturing >equipment brought to the Netherlands is being used solely for cassette >(0.150) tape width. > >Of course, there is the potential for a true restructuring coming out of >the Chapter 11 filing, and there is the possibility that the WSJ is >mistaken and just picking up the older, erroneous AP story, but I don't >think so. > >Sorry for the cross-posting, thought everyone would like to know. > >Richard > > > > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #517 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:43 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy files Chapter 11 masteringman... Offline Send Email Scott Philips: > Will this also apply to DAT tape as well? AFAIK, DAT tape has never been produced outside of the far east. Quantegy DAT tape was made from parts bought outside of the company. So it might survive, but since the DAT format is almost dead I´d think that it will disappear within a few years. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #518 From: OtherWorld Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:19 pm Subject: Remarks regarding Quantegy otherworldrec Offline Send Email Hi Everyone Sad news. Has anyone begun a new line of tape? Looking beyond the short term. Scott On 1/11/05 8:42 PM, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Fred Layn just posted on the Studer List some interesting news. --He just talked to Steve Smith who had retired from Quantegy October 1 --Smith continued as a consultant until December --There were cash flow problems due to the decline of videotape sales and insufficient funds to pay for raw materials. --DuPont had stopped making 1.5 mil basefilm --Flanges had quadrupled in price in the last six years --Oxide manufacturers weren't real interested in supplying small quantities of audio oxides --Apparently Ampex sold 250,000 reels of two-inch in 1992. Quantegy sold 2,500 in 2004. --Investors apparently bought two coating lines from Emtec and are planning to manufacture in the Netherlands. --"Quantegy will not rise again." Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #519 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:45 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy files Chapter 11 richardlhess Offline Send Email We have the court/filings now: The filing was in the Middle District of Alabama Federal District Court. There are eight separate filings that cover all the parts of the company. The case numbers range from 05-80042 to 05-80049. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #520 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:04 pm Subject: RE: Quantegy files Chapter 11 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hello, While I am new to this group and "technically" not worthy to be amongst you all, here's what I think might happen... I suppose the hard core - those who purchased the 2500 reels of 2-inch last year - will form a consortium and figure out a way to have tape manufactured either in the US or overseas, the latter option might emulate what's happened to vacuum tubes - where currently manufacturing is in the former eastern block, Russia and China. It was mentioned here that there are other plants - was it india? - not making professional audio tape but may someday have the potential to do so. So, if the people who really need analog tape are willing to ante up, perhaps there's like in the old rust yet. I would like to think that some group would either try to preserve the Quantegy facility intact or save the equipment from the auction block. I would also like to think that the EMTEC / BASF equipment also found a home and was not sold for scrap. ec At 12:40 PM 1/12/2005, you wrote: Scott, I've been buying Maxell DAT (DDS) tape so long, I forgot that Quantegy ever made it. I think the problems apply to all Quantegy-branded (and made) products. Not good news for the analog recording world. Let's see what ATR Services comes up with, though I'm skeptical that starting up a new tape line is worth it. Richard At 12:32 PM 1/12/2005 -0600, you wrote: >..hard to believe that someone, somewhere, won't pick this up. Will this >also apply to DAT tape as well? > > >---------- >From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] >Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:21 PM >To: richard@... >Subject: [sony_apr] Quantegy files Chapter 11 > >According to a report in today's Wall Street Journal, Quantegy filed >chapter 11. > >It was also reported elsewhere that apparently the EMTEC manufacturing >equipment brought to the Netherlands is being used solely for cassette >(0.150) tape width. > >Of course, there is the potential for a true restructuring coming out of >the Chapter 11 filing, and there is the possibility that the WSJ is >mistaken and just picking up the older, erroneous AP story, but I don't >think so. > >Sorry for the cross-posting, thought everyone would like to know. > >Richard > > > > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #521 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:19 pm Subject: New Startup Tape Company ladewd Offline Send Email I just got this off of Tape Op: Just got off the Phone with the guys from Lyndstrom/ATR services. THEY WILL BE MAKING TWO TAPE FORMULATIONS, IN ALL FORMATS WITHIN TWO TO THREE MONTHS!!!!!!! Carl Rusk is who I was on the phone with, he is one of the people in the "doom and gloom" Wall St. Journal article. There will be a High Output formulation based on some of our old favorites, and a lower output formulation based on a very old favorite. YES. FOR REAL. THIS IS IN MOTION, AND THEY WILL BE MAKING TAPE WITHIN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS!!!!!! This company should be supported. Obviously this was a wake up call. Tell anyone with a tape machine. The tape will be BETTER quality than what we have been dealing with lately. Sounds like good news. There have been rumours bouncing around about this. I hope it comes to fruition. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #522 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:39 pm Subject: Re: New Startup Tape Company eddieaudio Offline Send Email What's on the ATR site is the best news I've seen, though this news group has had better info than one "recording" site I visited today. At 07:19 PM 1/12/2005, you wrote: I just got this off of Tape Op: Just got off the Phone with the guys from Lyndstrom/ATR services. THEY WILL BE MAKING TWO TAPE FORMULATIONS, IN ALL FORMATS WITHIN TWO TO THREE MONTHS!!!!!!! Carl Rusk is who I was on the phone with, he is one of the people in the "doom and gloom" Wall St. Journal article. There will be a High Output formulation based on some of our old favorites, and a lower output formulation based on a very old favorite. YES. FOR REAL. THIS IS IN MOTION, AND THEY WILL BE MAKING TAPE WITHIN THE NEXT THREE MONTHS!!!!!! This company should be supported. Obviously this was a wake up call. Tell anyone with a tape machine. The tape will be BETTER quality than what we have been dealing with lately. Sounds like good news. There have been rumours bouncing around about this. I hope it comes to fruition. Cary Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #523 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:21 pm Subject: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I was browsing around and it appears that the Teac/Tascam BR-20 is no longer on any Teac/Tascam sites which, if I'm not mistaken, leaves the Otari MX-5050B-III as the only available "new" machine. Of course, there are the refurbished ATR-100s from ATRService.com. So, what's an archive to do if they need playback? I guess eBay and private sellers. It's rough. We really need to start a campaign "Don't dumpster that tape machine." And, we should try and discourage any further parting-out of working tape machines. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #524 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:10 pm Subject: Re: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! allegrosound Offline Send Email Nagra & Stellavox analog R2R's are still available and are fully supported by the manufacturer. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hi, I was browsing around and it appears that the Teac/Tascam BR-20 is no longer on any Teac/Tascam sites which, if I'm not mistaken, leaves the Otari MX-5050B-III as the only available "new" machine. Of course, there are the refurbished ATR-100s from ATRService.com. So, what's an archive to do if they need playback? I guess eBay and private sellers. It's rough. We really need to start a campaign "Don't dumpster that tape machine." And, we should try and discourage any further parting-out of working tape machines. Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #525 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:38 pm Subject: Re: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! eddieaudio Offline Send Email Are you saying Otari is still selling that machine? ec At 08:21 PM 1/13/2005, you wrote: Hi, I was browsing around and it appears that the Teac/Tascam BR-20 is no longer on any Teac/Tascam sites which, if I'm not mistaken, leaves the Otari MX-5050B-III as the only available "new" machine. Of course, there are the refurbished ATR-100s from ATRService.com. So, what's an archive to do if they need playback? I guess eBay and private sellers. It's rough. We really need to start a campaign "Don't dumpster that tape machine." And, we should try and discourage any further parting-out of working tape machines. Cheers, Richard Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #526 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:48 pm Subject: Re: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! richardlhess Offline Send Email Yes, Otari is still selling it, and, as we saw, Nagra and Stellavox are also selling machines. I wonder if Nagra is still selling the T-audio or just the portable machines? Cheers, Richard At 08:38 PM 1/13/2005 -0600, you wrote: >Are you saying Otari is still selling that machine? > >ec > > >At 08:21 PM 1/13/2005, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>I was browsing around and it appears that the Teac/Tascam BR-20 is no >>longer on any Teac/Tascam sites which, if I'm not mistaken, leaves the >>Otari MX-5050B-III as the only available "new" machine. Of course, there >>are the refurbished ATR-100s from ATRService.com. >> >>So, what's an archive to do if they need playback? I guess eBay and private >>sellers. It's rough. >> >>We really need to start a campaign "Don't dumpster that tape machine." And, >>we should try and discourage any further parting-out of working tape >>machines. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Richard >> >> >> >> >>---------- >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> * >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ >> >> * >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> * >> sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> * >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >> Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #527 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:40 am Subject: Re: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! richardlhess Offline Send Email At 07:10 PM 1/13/2005 -0800, Rick@... wrote: >Nagra & Stellavox analog R2R's are still available >and are fully supported by the manufacturer. My current information is that Stellavox is not making reel to reels and Nagra is making the portable line but it looks as if the T-Audio is discontinued, so there is no Swiss deck that can play 10.5" reels unless Nagra is still making that outboard adapter. Stellavox.com seems to be down as well, although that's what Google thinks the web site is. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #528 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:13 am Subject: Re: Don't Dumpster That Tape Machine! allegrosound Offline Send Email IVS (4S) & IVS-TC (4S-TC). "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Yes, Otari is still selling it, and, as we saw, Nagra and Stellavox are also selling machines. I wonder if Nagra is still selling the T-audio or just the portable machines? Cheers, Richard Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #529 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:25 am Subject: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email Just before packing up my stuff in LA, I obtained an almost-new set of Applied Magnetics "wide-face" heads. A little "Turbine Oil" on the idler quieted it right up and I was able to run through the multi-freq MRL test tape with +1, -0.7dB from 32 to 20kHz at 15 in/s. It was probably +/- 0.5dB from 125 to 20K! Neat heads. The Woelke's aren't bad, but I think the bottom end of the Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. I put these in so I didn't have to roll over a Studer A810 for three band-organ tapes I'm doing. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #530 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:14 am Subject: Fwd: new magnetic tape coming soon from Europe richardlhess Offline Send Email This is indeed good news from Europe as posted on the AMIA and ARSC lists. >From: "gmx.net" >Subject: [AMIA-L] new magnetic tape coming soon from Europe > >I am an editor and publisher of books on the cultural history of film >and media technology here in Germany and I was tracking the folding of >BASF/EMTEC and Quategy quite a bit, not only for the reason that we >have a book about the "history of magnetic tape" in the making. > >Today I received good news that fresh magnetic tape will be coming soon >from new European sources. What I understand from my sources is that >coating and production of 1/4 inch tape according to German studio tape >quality standards has started this week, further that test and research >is currently ongoing to expand this program in order to launch also >audio tape manufacturing in 1 and 2 inch gauges for multitrack analogue >audio recording (as a direct reaction to Quantegy filing chapter 11). >Sources say that the production and marketing of magnetic audio tape >for studios and mastering was and and could/will be profitable and that >EMTEC and Quantegy folded due to other reasons. It's all a question >about downsizing and marketing into niche markets. A public press >notice on this topic naming manufacturing company and people involved >should be expected within 2 - 3 weeks, sources say. > >hope this brings new hope, >Joachim Polzer >www.polzer.org > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #531 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:26 pm Subject: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #532 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:27 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: new magnetic tape coming soon from Europe ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > This is indeed good news from Europe as posted on the AMIA and ARSC lists. Yep, this certainly is good news. I don't think the world will be "tapeless" for very long. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #533 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #534 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:57 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #535 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:12 pm Subject: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which > is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more > tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. Thank you for explaining for me. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #536 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:31 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email thank you, Scott, for the clarification re wide-wrap heads. how's the 20kHz PLAYback response at 15-ips vs a narrow-wrap "hyperbolic" head (as employed in Technics RS-1520, for example) ? Scott Phillips wrote: Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #537 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:41 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email The 20kHz play of the test tape is nice. The gap equalizer is only on the first notch up at 15 in/s. The second notch is too hot at 20kHz. The JPEG wouldn't open, but there is a graphic at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/tips.htm that shows the various track widths. I only have Studer and Nortronics DIN heads -- the Studer being the "butterfly" I think the Advanced Magnetics wideface on the APR come close to the Studer 318 "glass" heads for flatness. At 12:31 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: thank you, Scott, for the clarification re wide-wrap heads. how's the 20kHz PLAYback response at 15-ips vs a narrow-wrap "hyperbolic" head (as employed in Technics RS-1520, for example) ? Scott Phillips wrote: Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #538 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool masteringman... Offline Send Email > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > >I think the bottom end of the > > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. > > These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the > Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the > application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump > was at a higher As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using either 317 or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response within +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #539 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:40 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email that graphic shows Ampex track-width being non-NAB-standard (narrower); this is news to me; which Ampex machines use these heads ? I've not seen a Studer with "glass" heads; which models use these ? I've not owned a machine with glass heads (Akai PRO-1000, for example) or ferrite heads (Sony TC-880, for example) sound as good as other machines (Sony APR-5003, for example) with softer, metal heads; of course, comparing dif heads on dif decks may be meaningless, but I'm not surprised at the results so far. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: The 20kHz play of the test tape is nice. The gap equalizer is only on the first notch up at 15 in/s. The second notch is too hot at 20kHz. The JPEG wouldn't open, but there is a graphic at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/tips.htm that shows the various track widths. I only have Studer and Nortronics DIN heads -- the Studer being the "butterfly" I think the Advanced Magnetics wideface on the APR come close to the Studer 318 "glass" heads for flatness. At 12:31 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: thank you, Scott, for the clarification re wide-wrap heads. how's the 20kHz PLAYback response at 15-ips vs a narrow-wrap "hyperbolic" head (as employed in Technics RS-1520, for example) ? Scott Phillips wrote: Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #540 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:18 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:40 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: that graphic shows Ampex track-width being non-NAB-standard (narrower); this is news to me; which Ampex machines use these heads ? All pro machines AFAIK. Ampex has a drawing showing 75 mil track width and the NAB standard is 82 mil and the DIN is about 100 mil. I've not seen a Studer with "glass" heads; which models use these ? I have them in A807s as play only. I don't have any record 318 heads. Goran stated that the A820 was flat within 0.3dB with either. I've not owned a machine with glass heads (Akai PRO-1000, for example) or ferrite heads (Sony TC-880, for example) sound as good as other machines (Sony APR-5003, for example) with softer, metal heads; of course, comparing dif heads on dif decks may be meaningless, but I'm not surprised at the results so far. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: The 20kHz play of the test tape is nice. The gap equalizer is only on the first notch up at 15 in/s. The second notch is too hot at 20kHz. The JPEG wouldn't open, but there is a graphic at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/tips.htm that shows the various track widths. I only have Studer and Nortronics DIN heads -- the Studer being the "butterfly" I think the Advanced Magnetics wideface on the APR come close to the Studer 318 "glass" heads for flatness. At 12:31 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: thank you, Scott, for the clarification re wide-wrap heads. how's the 20kHz PLAYback response at 15-ips vs a narrow-wrap "hyperbolic" head (as employed in Technics RS-1520, for example) ? Scott Phillips wrote: Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #541 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:49 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email both Play heads on my A807 R/P/P deck appear to be metal; is your A807 a Play-Only deck ? is Record head track-width on Ampex 300-2, 350-2, 354-2, MR70-2, 75-mil or 82-mil ? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 01:40 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: that graphic shows Ampex track-width being non-NAB-standard (narrower); this is news to me; which Ampex machines use these heads ? All pro machines AFAIK. Ampex has a drawing showing 75 mil track width and the NAB standard is 82 mil and the DIN is about 100 mil. I've not seen a Studer with "glass" heads; which models use these ? I have them in A807s as play only. I don't have any record 318 heads. Goran stated that the A820 was flat within 0.3dB with either. I've not owned a machine with glass heads (Akai PRO-1000, for example) or ferrite heads (Sony TC-880, for example) sound as good as other machines (Sony APR-5003, for example) with softer, metal heads; of course, comparing dif heads on dif decks may be meaningless, but I'm not surprised at the results so far. Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #542 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:14 pm Subject: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg > As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using either 317 > or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response within > +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #543 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:38 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool masteringman... Offline Send Email CarY > Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? > NAB equalizaton has a bit bumpier frequency response. You could order the A820 with either 2 mm track widht or 2.75 mm butterfly version. I have both types of heads. The A820 has switchable NAB and IEC EQ at the touch of a button. 30 Hz to 18 kHz within +- 0.3 dB holds when using any combination of heads or EQ. The above includes the effect of any fringing (head bumps). Here is an explanation of the Studer designed and produced 318 heads: http://recordist.com/studer/Amorphous_core_material_for_heads.pdf -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #544 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email for identification purposes, does anyone have pics of these different heads mounted in APR headblock ? ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg > As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using either 317 > or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response within > +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #545 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:06 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:49 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: both Play heads on my A807 R/P/P deck appear to be metal; is your A807 a Play-Only deck ? Three of my A807s (and I sold three from the same source) are 318 glass heads and you can't tell by looking. My other three A807s (two play and one MK II ERP) are, I think 317 metal heads. All of the play machines are DIN. The ERP MK II is NAB is Record head track-width on Ampex 300-2, 350-2, 354-2, MR70-2, 75-mil or 82-mil ? My understanding is that all heads made by Ampex in the U.S. were 75 mil. I could be wrong on this. I'll ask over on the Ampex list. I don't know about the Tascam-manufactured ATR-700 and ATR-800. I also don't know about the ATR-100. Cheers, Richard "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 01:40 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: that graphic shows Ampex track-width being non-NAB-standard (narrower); this is news to me; which Ampex machines use these heads ? All pro machines AFAIK. Ampex has a drawing showing 75 mil track width and the NAB standard is 82 mil and the DIN is about 100 mil. I've not seen a Studer with "glass" heads; which models use these ? I have them in A807s as play only. I don't have any record 318 heads. Goran stated that the A820 was flat within 0.3dB with either. I've not owned a machine with glass heads (Akai PRO-1000, for example) or ferrite heads (Sony TC-880, for example) sound as good as other machines (Sony APR-5003, for example) with softer, metal heads; of course, comparing dif heads on dif decks may be meaningless, but I'm not surprised at the results so far. Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #546 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:08 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email Ah, but Cary, we can ALIGN our APR-5000s to DIN spec (with the narrower tracks) and lose the bumps a bit. I do have a set of Nortronics DIN heads in an APR stack, but I've never aligned them. They seem like they'd suffer the same as the Woelkes as they are the same physical size. Cheers, Richard At 11:14 PM 1/20/2005 +0000, you wrote: >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg > > As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using >either 317 > > or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response >within > > +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. > >Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a >bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel >heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but >have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are >aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's >shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. > >Cary > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #547 From: Graham Newton Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:20 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool gnewtonca Offline Send Email "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > My understanding is that all heads made by Ampex in the U.S. were 75 mil. I > could be wrong on this. I'll ask over on the Ampex list. I don't know about > the Tascam-manufactured ATR-700 and ATR-800. I have a set of DIN heads for my ATR-800 Ampex recorders... it consists of a full track ferrite erase and DIN track width record and play heads. The electronics were arranged so both channels went into record together. This way, it was a forced stereo recorder and could not be used to record upper or lower tracks independently. The electronics could be re-arranged to operate with a conventional NAB two track head assembly for separate track record control. The ATR-800 head assemblies were plug-in with a 1/4 turn locking fastener and were a less than 30 second changeover. ... Graham Newton -- Audio Restoration by Graham Newton, http://www.audio-restoration.com World class professional services applied to tape or phonograph records for consumers and re-releases, featuring CEDAR's new CAMBRIDGE processes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #548 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:47 pm Subject: 2-track heads track width richardlhess Offline Send Email The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed there, but I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. They wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is from 1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo machines from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) used the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. Anyone know? Thanks! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #549 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:04 pm Subject: Re: 2-track heads track width eddieaudio Offline Send Email I would think John French would have most of the answers to these questions... ec At 08:47 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed there, but I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. They wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is from 1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo machines from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) used the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. Anyone know? Thanks! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #550 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:28 pm Subject: Re: 2-track heads track width richardlhess Offline Send Email Yes, or John Austin at Sprague and or Greg Ortont Flux Magnetics. Let's see what the Ampex list comes back with (I just copied my posting to the Ampex list to this list--that's what's below). Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Quoting eddie ciletti : > I would think John French would have most of the answers to these > questions... > > ec > > > At 08:47 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: > >The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed > >there, but > >I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site > >http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif > >shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. > > > >We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. > They > >wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is > from > >1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo machines > >from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. > > > >I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) > used > >the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. > > > >Anyone know? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Richard > >-- > > > >Richard L. Hess > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * > > > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #551 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:53 pm Subject: RE: 2-track heads track width ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..now that's an idea.... ________________________________ From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Thu 1/20/2005 9:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 2-track heads track width I would think John French would have most of the answers to these questions... ec At 08:47 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed there, but I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. They wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is from 1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo machines from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) used the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. Anyone know? Thanks! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #552 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:27 am Subject: Re: 2-track heads track width jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. The offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb.1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Phillips" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] 2-track heads track width > ..now that's an idea.... > > ________________________________ > > From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] > Sent: Thu 1/20/2005 9:04 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 2-track heads track width > > > I would think John French would have most of the answers to these > questions... > > ec > > > At 08:47 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: > > > The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed > there, but > I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site > http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif > shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. > > We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. > They > wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is > from > 1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo > machines > from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. > > I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) > used > the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. > > Anyone know? > > Thanks! > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #553 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:31 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request as sonn as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newton" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool > > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > >> My understanding is that all heads made by Ampex in the U.S. were 75 mil. >> I >> could be wrong on this. I'll ask over on the Ampex list. I don't know >> about >> the Tascam-manufactured ATR-700 and ATR-800. > > I have a set of DIN heads for my ATR-800 Ampex recorders... it consists of > a full track ferrite erase and DIN track width record and play heads. The > electronics were arranged so both channels went into record together. > This > way, it was a forced stereo recorder and could not be used to record upper > or lower tracks independently. The electronics could be re-arranged to > operate with a conventional NAB two track head assembly for separate track > record control. The ATR-800 head assemblies were plug-in with a 1/4 turn > locking fastener and were a less than 30 second changeover. > > > > ... Graham Newton > > -- > Audio Restoration by Graham Newton, http://www.audio-restoration.com > World class professional services applied to tape or phonograph records > for > consumers and re-releases, featuring CEDAR's new CAMBRIDGE processes. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #554 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:29 am Subject: Re: 2-track heads track width jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. The offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 2-track heads track width I would think John French would have most of the answers to these questions... ec At 08:47 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote: The Ampex track width drawing in the Recordist Archives (it's listed there, but I can't seem to find it) and also available on Brian Roth's site http://www.rothtech.org/tapehead.gif shows Ampex 2-track heads at 75 mil track width. We got discussing this on the Sony_APR list and some members were amazed. They wanted to know what machines had this track width. Since this document is from 1973 one would assume (oh the risk) that this applied to all stereo machines from the 300 through the MR70 and the AG440. I wondered out loud on the list whether later machines (ATR-100, ATR-800) used the 75 mil or the 82 mil track widths. Anyone know? Thanks! Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #555 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:38 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool for identification purposes, does anyone have pics of these different heads mounted in APR headblock ? ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg > As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using either 317 > or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response within > +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #556 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:40 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "ladewd" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:14 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg >> As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using > either 317 >> or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response > within >> +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. > > Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a > bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel > heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but > have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are > aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's > shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #557 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:54 am Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Gee… I didn’t know John was ALLOWED to ever have a vacation….. From: JRF [mailto:jrf@...] Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:41 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "ladewd" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:14 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Goran Finnberg >> As a point of reference a properly adjusted Studer A820 using > either 317 >> or 318 butterfly heads have a overall rec/play frequency response > within >> +-0.3 dB from 30 Hz to 18 kHz. > > Does the A820 have DIN heads and IEC alignemt? NAB equalizaton has a > bit bumpier frequency response. The wide-profile amorphous steel > heads (and this is what Sony calls them) have a NAB track width but > have a much wider front surface than the Woelke heads. They are > aligned using NAB EQ and thus subjected to NAB equalization's > shortcomings. Too bad they never offered a DIN version. > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #558 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:10 pm Subject: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Ah, but Cary, we can ALIGN our APR-5000s to DIN spec (with the narrower > tracks) and lose the bumps a bit. > You aren't suggesting to use a "non-standard" setup are you? ;-) Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #559 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:21 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email LOL… standards are an illusion….. lunch-time doubly so (apologies to the late Douglas Adams..) Scott From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Ah, but Cary, we can ALIGN our APR-5000s to DIN spec (with the narrower > tracks) and lose the bumps a bit. > You aren't suggesting to use a "non-standard" setup are you? ;-) Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #560 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:20 pm Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email At 07:10 PM 1/23/2005 +0000, ladewd wrote: >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" >wrote: > > Ah, but Cary, we can ALIGN our APR-5000s to DIN spec (with the >narrower > > tracks) and lose the bumps a bit. > > > >You aren't suggesting to use a "non-standard" setup are you? ;-) Moi? No, never ... Of course, the copy my friend Don Ososke made of the 1 Oct 1947 first taped Crosby show (in the 1980s) was done between two ATR-100s. From a 30 in/s full-track ATR-100 (might have been 36 in/s as I don't recall if that tape was made before Mullin ground the capstans to make it go 30 at 60Hz) to a two-track ATR-100. Don never liked the bass boost on NAB, so he did flat low end, but NAB high end. Got to set up one of the A810s for that. After dessicating the Ampex 456 it was recorded on, I sent a 44.1/16 CD copy to Don. He was happy. We will be placing an 88.2/24 transfer in the Stanford Library archives. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #561 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:24 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool allegrosound Offline Send Email yes, but should we stop trying? the alternative is worse. Scott Phillips wrote: LOL… standards are an illusion….. lunch-time doubly so (apologies to the late Douglas Adams..) Scott Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #562 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:29 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:24 AM 1/23/2005 -0800, you wrote: >yes, but should we stop trying? No. >the alternative is worse. Not if you have detailed tones/noise at the head of your tape. There are probably a half dozen 15 in/s EQs out there or proposed. The APR and the A810 are easily adjustable to most. I've built an AME equalizer that is being used on the RCA Red Seal masters of the Boston Symphony by some good folks in Boston. We have to deal with it anyway. Oh yes, Nagramaster, Stellamaster, NAB, IEC...GAK! 15 is probably the worst. Cheers, Richard >Scott Phillips wrote: > > >LOL… > >standards are an illusion….. lunch-time doubly >so (apologies to the late Douglas Adams..) > >Scott > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. >Learn >more. > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #563 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:52 pm Subject: RE: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..never suggested otherwise, and wouldn’t. Merely acknowledging to realities of the real world in a light hearted way.. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool yes, but should we stop trying? the alternative is worse. Scott Phillips wrote: LOL… standards are an illusion….. lunch-time doubly so (apologies to the late Douglas Adams..) Scott Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #564 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:53 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:40 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool that graphic shows Ampex track-width being non-NAB-standard (narrower); this is news to me; which Ampex machines use these heads ? I've not seen a Studer with "glass" heads; which models use these ? I've not owned a machine with glass heads (Akai PRO-1000, for example) or ferrite heads (Sony TC-880, for example) sound as good as other machines (Sony APR-5003, for example) with softer, metal heads; of course, comparing dif heads on dif decks may be meaningless, but I'm not surprised at the results so far. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: The 20kHz play of the test tape is nice. The gap equalizer is only on the first notch up at 15 in/s. The second notch is too hot at 20kHz. The JPEG wouldn't open, but there is a graphic at http://www.richardhess.com/tape/tips.htm that shows the various track widths. I only have Studer and Nortronics DIN heads -- the Studer being the "butterfly" I think the Advanced Magnetics wideface on the APR come close to the Studer 318 "glass" heads for flatness. At 12:31 PM 1/20/2005 -0800, you wrote: thank you, Scott, for the clarification re wide-wrap heads. how's the 20kHz PLAYback response at 15-ips vs a narrow-wrap "hyperbolic" head (as employed in Technics RS-1520, for example) ? Scott Phillips wrote: Perhaps Cary means the total tape swept area of any given track, which is not just the width of the track. The wide profile heads have more tape/head contact because of the increased tape wrap. From: Rick@... [mailto:Rick@...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #565 From: "JRF" Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:02 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. Our offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool last time I checked, 1/4" 2-trk NAB "narrow-track" heads have a track-width of 2.00mm, and 1/4" 2-trk CCIR/IEC "wide-track" heads have a track-width of 2.75mm. What is the track-width of your "DIN" heads ? What is the track-width of your "wide profile" heads ? spec-chart attached for those who care to match track-width of the head to width of recorded tracks. ladewd wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: >I think the bottom end of the > Applied Magnetics appears a little smoother. These heads were touted as having better low end. IMO, they are not as bumpy as the Woelke heads. This can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the application. I have a brand new set as well (same source as yours ). The lo-freq bump was at a higher frequency than the Woelke heads. Like the APR multitracks, there are actually two bumps, one at about 80Hz and one at ~160Hz. The higher frequency is the more pronounced bump and is what I use to calibrate. Because of this, I found the -3dB point was higher than the Woelke heads. The best thing about these heads is that they are much more durable than then Woelke heads. I am going to set aside some time this weekend to align the 5000 for both the wide profile and DIN heads so I can evalute them both. I have a feeling I will prefer the DIN heads since they have about 10% more track area. Both of these heads make the time code track useless. While the wide profile heads will not affect the center track, it is impossible to adjust the wrap for the proper spacing between the record, repro and time code heads to make the time code sub-frame accurate. That's why Sony never used these heads in a time code machine and the reason that Woelke's were much more popular. The lion's share of APR-5000's were time code machines. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #566 From: "JRF" Date: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:50 am Subject: Re: Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. The offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request as soon as we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard L. Hess" To: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: The wide-profile heads - pretty cool At 11:24 AM 1/23/2005 -0800, you wrote: >yes, but should we stop trying? No. >the alternative is worse. Not if you have detailed tones/noise at the head of your tape. There are probably a half dozen 15 in/s EQs out there or proposed. The APR and the A810 are easily adjustable to most. I've built an AME equalizer that is being used on the RCA Red Seal masters of the Boston Symphony by some good folks in Boston. We have to deal with it anyway. Oh yes, Nagramaster, Stellamaster, NAB, IEC...GAK! 15 is probably the worst. Cheers, Richard >Scott Phillips wrote: >/> > >LOL. > >standards are an illusion... lunch-time doubly >so (apologies to the late Douglas Adams..) > >Scott > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. >Learn >more. > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Yahoo! Groups Links Reply | Messages in this Topic (30 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #567 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:48 am Subject: Fwd: [AMIA-L] audio mag tape 2"-1"-1/2"-1/4" available richardlhess Offline Send Email This just in from the AMIA list... >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:40:58 +0100 >From: Joachim Polzer > >I am currently researching about the European production and delivery >situation for prof. audio mag tape (2"-1"-1/2"-1/4") and I received news >today that the remaining assets of EMTEC, Germany (formerly BASF >Magnetics) have been bought and secured by a company which will announce >the deal with now-insolvent EMTEC later next week. > >So if anybody in need for "fresh" 2"-1"-1/2"-1/4" audio studio mag tape >from EMTEC please contact former EMTEC exec. Jürgen Heimbach > >by email jheimbach@... > >(his cell phone nr. +49.172.567 82 11) > >He promised me to redirect incoming inquiries to the company who has >bought the remaining assets on a first come first serve basis. > >Rumours are still ongoing that the Dutch company MPO B.V. in Oosterhout >(which bought some of the hardware manufacturing assets of the EMTEC/AGFA >mag tape manufacturing site in Munich) will not only continue to produce >magnetic tape for the compact audio cassette but has also plans to start >production in other mag tape gauges for studio and mastering purposes. But >access to chemicals seems to be the current issue. So if there is somebody >out there who could help with chemical resources for prof. audio >manufactuaring, I am sure this would help the current situation regarding >to help continue prof. audio magnetic tape. > >MPO's web site: www.mpobv.nl > >Hope this info helps some people urgently in need for mag tape. > >If anybody do know about the current situation about mag film (perforated >magnetic polyester film in 16, 17.5, 35 mm gauges), please let me/us know. > >bye >Joachim Polzer >www.polzer.org > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #568 From: "JRF" Date: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:03 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: [AMIA-L] audio mag tape 2"-1"-1/2"-1/4" available jrf@... Send Email Thank you for contacting JRF. The offices are currently closed for vacation and will reopen on Feb. 1st. We will reply to your request when we return. Best Regards, Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard L. Hess" To: "AMPEX LIST" ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Fwd: [AMIA-L] audio mag tape 2"-1"-1/2"-1/4" available This just in from the AMIA list... >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:40:58 +0100 >From: Joachim Polzer > >I am currently researching about the European production and delivery >situation for prof. audio mag tape (2"-1"-1/2"-1/4") and I received news >today that the remaining assets of EMTEC, Germany (formerly BASF >Magnetics) have been bought and secured by a company which will announce >the deal with now-insolvent EMTEC later next week. > >So if anybody in need for "fresh" 2"-1"-1/2"-1/4" audio studio mag tape >from EMTEC please contact former EMTEC exec. Jürgen Heimbach > >by email jheimbach@... > >(his cell phone nr. +49.172.567 82 11) > >He promised me to redirect incoming inquiries to the company who has >bought the remaining assets on a first come first serve basis. > >Rumours are still ongoing that the Dutch company MPO B.V. in Oosterhout >(which bought some of the hardware manufacturing assets of the EMTEC/AGFA >mag tape manufacturing site in Munich) will not only continue to produce >magnetic tape for the compact audio cassette but has also plans to start >production in other mag tape gauges for studio and mastering purposes. But >access to chemicals seems to be the current issue. So if there is somebody >out there who could help with chemical resources for prof. audio >manufactuaring, I am sure this would help the current situation regarding >to help continue prof. audio magnetic tape. > >MPO's web site: www.mpobv.nl > >Hope this info helps some people urgently in need for mag tape. > >If anybody do know about the current situation about mag film (perforated >magnetic polyester film in 16, 17.5, 35 mm gauges), please let me/us know. > >bye >Joachim Polzer >www.polzer.org > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Yahoo! Groups Links Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #569 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:46 pm Subject: SPARS working with Quantegy for custom tape runs richardlhess Offline Send Email See details at Pro Sound News about SPARS and Quantegy working together to make sure analog tape remains available. http://prosoundnews.com/articles/article_1471.shtml Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #570 From: "treenbryan" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 1:01 pm Subject: Maintenance parts for APR-24 treenbryan Offline Send Email Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. Thanks, Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #571 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 1:17 pm Subject: RE: Maintenance parts for APR-24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email One source to try is JRF Magnetics jrf@... for a lot of those parts. Cary might have the inside line on some of the items like the hour meter. I think you might not need to replace as many parts as you think, and good thing. Those are expensive parts to say the least. From: treenbryan [mailto:btreen@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:02 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Maintenance parts for APR-24 Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. Thanks, Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #572 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 4:04 pm Subject: Re: Maintenance parts for APR-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email I don't think you can count on Sony for much of anything... But there are plenty of brilliant and helpful people on this list. ec At 12:01 PM 2/2/2005, you wrote: Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. Thanks, Bryan Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #573 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 5:28 pm Subject: Re: Maintenance parts for APR-24 richardlhess Offline Send Email Have you tried Sony Canada for parts? I would be very curious as to what you report. The reason I say this is that someone who was selling an APR-24 from Canada said that Sony Canada still supports it. I do not believe Sony U.S. supports it, so that would be an interesting plus. When I was asking about parts for the APR-5000 series, I was very rudely treated at Sony. Some of the Sony guys on the list can cry about what was dumpstered when Sony closed down the Cypress, California operation. Or, you can save the guys the pain and search the archives. Cheers? Richard List Mom and owner of the only APR-16 ever made...not to mention 19 APR-500x machines in various states of (dis)repair. At 06:01 PM 2/2/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year >ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony >up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source >to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour >meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape >and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration >etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #574 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 5:45 pm Subject: Re: Maintenance parts for APR-24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Does anyone do business with Dale Electronics in New York City? I know they were once a major sony parts dealer... I would rather deal with them than directly with Sony. ec At 04:28 PM 2/2/2005, you wrote: Have you tried Sony Canada for parts? I would be very curious as to what you report. The reason I say this is that someone who was selling an APR-24 from Canada said that Sony Canada still supports it. I do not believe Sony U.S. supports it, so that would be an interesting plus. When I was asking about parts for the APR-5000 series, I was very rudely treated at Sony. Some of the Sony guys on the list can cry about what was dumpstered when Sony closed down the Cypress, California operation. Or, you can save the guys the pain and search the archives. Cheers? Richard List Mom and owner of the only APR-16 ever made...not to mention 19 APR-500x machines in various states of (dis)repair. At 06:01 PM 2/2/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year >ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony >up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source >to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour >meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape >and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration >etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #575 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 7:51 pm Subject: Re: Maintenance parts for APR-24 richardlhess Offline Send Email Eddie, That's a wonderful lead! If anyone knows them could you find out what they have in the way of APR stock? Cheers, Richard At 04:45 PM 2/2/2005 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone do business with Dale Electronics in New York City? I know >they were once a major sony parts dealer... I would rather deal with them >than directly with Sony. > >ec > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #576 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 8:03 pm Subject: Some MCI-JH machines available, I think... richardlhess Offline Send Email Anyone interested in some MCH-JH-110 machines. There is a full-track and a two-track available, I think. I was talking to someone about some Dolby units and he happened to mention these machines. I wasn't interested, but then I thought someone here might be. If anyone is interested, I'll try and find out more...no promises. In Oklahoma CIty. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #577 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 9:03 pm Subject: RE: Some MCI-JH machines available, I think... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have some limited JH-110/24 spares as well for those who are desperate. No pinch rollers though.. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Some MCI-JH machines available, I think... Anyone interested in some MCH-JH-110 machines. There is a full-track and a two-track available, I think. I was talking to someone about some Dolby units and he happened to mention these machines. I wasn't interested, but then I thought someone here might be. If anyone is interested, I'll try and find out more...no promises. In Oklahoma CIty. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #578 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Feb 2, 2005 9:02 pm Subject: RE: Some MCI-JH machines available, I think... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Who's making pinch rollers these days? At 08:03 PM 2/2/2005, you wrote: I have some limited JH-110/24 spares as well for those who are desperate. No pinch rollers though.. From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Some MCI-JH machines available, I think... Anyone interested in some MCH-JH-110 machines. There is a full-track and a two-track available, I think. I was talking to someone about some Dolby units and he happened to mention these machines. I wasn't interested, but then I thought someone here might be. If anyone is interested, I'll try and find out more...no promises. In Oklahoma CIty. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #579 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Feb 3, 2005 11:39 pm Subject: Re: Maintenance parts for APR-24 ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "treenbryan" wrote: > > Hi, I'm new to this group and I bought a used APR-24 about a year > ago. Now my studio is almost complete and it's time to get the Sony > up and running. Does anyone know a Sony phone number or other source > to get the 5000 hour maintenance parts such as tape guides, hour > meter, etc.? I live on the West Coast of Canada. I'm new to tape > and would appreciate any advice. I took ATR's seminar on calibration > etc., but otherwise am a neophyte. > > Thanks, Bryan Hi Bryan, APR24 parts are in short supply. I have some fast guides (the ones on the headstack). There are no timer rollers left at Sony, but when I left Sony a year ago, there were still bearings available for the roller guides. Forget about the hour meter, it would be nice, but its not an essential, and that's what you should be worrying about now. In an pinch you can use the hour meter from a Betacam SP (BVW-75 if I remember correctly) but you'll have to solder the leads on it. The hour meter for the PCM3324 will also work. I have a complete headstack if you need it, also individual heads. Rec Ready/Sync/Repro switches for the remote can be replaced with the switches from the PCM3348 remote. The LED colors are different, but they will work. I've had customers from Canada call me and say that Sony Canada didn't know what an APR was. If they do, there's no way they have any parts left to support it unless some wise soul stashed some parts that Sony doesn't know about. Sony has pretty much quit the pro audio business and they have a bad habit of throwing out existing parts once manufacturing stops. You can get pinch rollers from Athan Industries. If I can be of any help, just ask. Good Luck with it, Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #580 From: "reeltapegone1" Date: Wed Feb 9, 2005 10:45 pm Subject: MCI JH 110 reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email Hello: I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but here goes.... My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. As far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from 1984. I have many questions...is this the place to ask? Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport board to make it function correctly? I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR Sony list and maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. "reeltapegone" KC8HGQ Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #581 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Feb 9, 2005 10:57 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH 110 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Matt, I don't recall a dummy plug being required. Flat yellow paint? I'd start with all the jones plugs, from the power supply to the rear of the transport - check all the fuses of course - I believe there are test points on the supply's front panel. I worked at MCI from sept '75 to about may '76. If you see a diamond-shaped "4" on any of the cards, I may have pre-tested them. ec At 09:45 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: Hello: I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but here goes.... My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. As far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from 1984. I have many questions...is this the place to ask? Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport board to make it function correctly? I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR Sony list and maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. "reeltapegone" KC8HGQ Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #582 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Feb 9, 2005 11:10 pm Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You have come to the right place. That would be a JH-110A machine. I have pretty reasonable knowledge of these machines, particularly the transports. The audio electronics is entirely different between the JH-110A and JH-110 B/C. The ‘A’ series audio drawers used lots of IC’s you couldn’t find on a bet any more. I MAY be able to provide some very odd and limited spare parts. Case by case. The JH-110A machines were ‘dirtier’ sounding in a number of ways, but were advanced for the time. Mind the master oscillator gain level, don’t set it as stated in the manual, it will cause nasty sounding recordings. I don’t recall any jumper plug required for the transport remote Jones plug to be accessible for use. Yours would be the machine with a tape position indicator and just RTZ and reset functions on the top panel. The JH-110B/C had memory preset buttons as well and used an autolocator board that was similar (but not identical) to the ones in the JH-24 autolocator. It also had the funky inline IC on the lampdriver board for MVC Ask away…I’ll help if I can. Steve S. , if he is still on the list, is also an old-timer who likely remembers a good bit. From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 Hello: I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but here goes.... My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. As far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from 1984. I have many questions...is this the place to ask? Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport board to make it function correctly? I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR Sony list and maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. "reeltapegone" KC8HGQ Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #583 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Feb 9, 2005 11:12 pm Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The 1984 manual will have some use on the transport, to a degree. The audio electronics, however, are completely different.. From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:58 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 Matt, I don't recall a dummy plug being required. Flat yellow paint? I'd start with all the jones plugs, from the power supply to the rear of the transport - check all the fuses of course - I believe there are test points on the supply's front panel. I worked at MCI from sept '75 to about may '76. If you see a diamond-shaped "4" on any of the cards, I may have pre-tested them. ec At 09:45 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: Hello: I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but here goes.... My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. As far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from 1984. I have many questions...is this the place to ask? Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport board to make it function correctly? I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR Sony list and maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. "reeltapegone" KC8HGQ Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #584 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:54 am Subject: Re: MCI JH 110 ladewd Offline Send Email Scott, wan't there a JH110 as opposed to a 110A? I seem to remember that there was any earlier model before the 110A. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > The 1984 manual will have some use on the transport, to a degree. The > audio electronics, however, are completely different.. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@t...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:58 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 > > > > Matt, > > I don't recall a dummy plug being required. > > Flat yellow paint? > > I'd start with all the jones plugs, from the power supply to the rear of > the transport - check all the fuses of course - I believe there are test > points on the supply's front panel. I worked at MCI from sept '75 to > about may '76. If you see a diamond-shaped "4" on any of the cards, I > may have pre-tested them. > > ec > > > At 09:45 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but > here > goes.... > > My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. > > Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. > As > far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from > 1984. > > I have many questions...is this the place to ask? > > Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport > board to > make it function correctly? > > I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR > Sony list and > maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. > > "reeltapegone" > KC8HGQ > > Matt Laube > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1108093515/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12k89ljaj/* htt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108007 115 > 056174> > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1108094471/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12kducniq/* htt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108008 071 > 730642> > > 08008071730642> > > > s/S=:HM/A=2532114/rand=238346070> > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #585 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:26 am Subject: RE: Re: MCI JH 110 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Hummmm….I think so, but if I’m thinking right, that would be slightly older than 1974. If I’m thinking correctly, the JH-110 had a similar transport, but the audio electronics were sort of like a solid state clone version of the Ampex 440, where as the JH-110A was completely different than anyone else’s. It didn’t stay around long. The studio I first worked for bought a JH-110A ¼” 2 track and 1” 8 track machine new in 1976 from a dealer in LA. Sometime in the mid ‘80’s, while I still worked for Sony, I took the ¼” machine and using castoffs from production, rebuilt the 110A to a 110C, complete with the active feedback dancer arm and extra roller guide. I replaced the audio drawers entirely, analog torque board, fitted an autolocator and display, and replaced the heads as well, as I recall because the heads had a different impedance. The studio staff though I was crazy… there were no intact subassemblies at one point. They were sure I could never get it reassembled, let alone work properly. It sounded a WHOLE lot better though. As it is, it is still in daily use as a ½” machine, still doing nicely…. At least the parts were cheap…. :>) If he has problems with motors or tach’s, I’ve used Amp services over the years to handle that. They stock the ceramic shafts that the MCI/Sony capstan motors use as well….although I use JRF for heads. http://www.audiomagnetics.com/ From: ladewd [mailto:ladewd@...] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:55 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: MCI JH 110 Scott, wan't there a JH110 as opposed to a 110A? I seem to remember that there was any earlier model before the 110A. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > The 1984 manual will have some use on the transport, to a degree. The > audio electronics, however, are completely different.. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@t...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:58 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 > > > > Matt, > > I don't recall a dummy plug being required. > > Flat yellow paint? > > I'd start with all the jones plugs, from the power supply to the rear of > the transport - check all the fuses of course - I believe there are test > points on the supply's front panel. I worked at MCI from sept '75 to > about may '76. If you see a diamond-shaped "4" on any of the cards, I > may have pre-tested them. > > ec > > > At 09:45 PM 2/9/2005, you wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > I'm not sure that I have been approved as a registered user......but > here > goes.... > > My name is Matt Laube and I collect ,restore and research tape machines. > > Currently on the top of the pile is a 1974 MCI JH 110 serial number 114. > As > far as I can tell this is a early version and the book I have is from > 1984. > > I have many questions...is this the place to ask? > > Is there a "dummy plug" for the remote female Jones on the transport > board to > make it function correctly? > > I'll save my other questions for the next post. Hey, this is the APR > Sony list and > maybe no one knows or cares about 1974 MCI JH 110's. > > "reeltapegone" > KC8HGQ > > Matt Laube > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1108093515/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12k89ljaj/* htt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108007 115 > 056174> > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > D=groups/S=1705017563:HM/EXP=1108094471/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12kducniq/* htt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108008 071 > 730642> > > 08008071730642> > > > s/S=:HM/A=2532114/rand=238346070> > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #586 From: "reeltapegone1" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:20 pm Subject: MCI JH 110 project reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #587 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:22 pm Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..time to look at the control logic PCB and the lampdriver board, if the MVC light comes on without touching it. If the thing thinks it is in MVC mode you won’t get very far without fixing that first. That long inline IC on the lampdriver board is a typical failure, and you won’t find one anywhere. You can use a later model lampdriver board….. I think the control logic PCB hasn’t changed either, so a later one, at least to test it, is an option. From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:21 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #588 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:28 pm Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Come to think of it, the analog torque board is also usable from a later model I think, at least for testing… From: Scott Phillips Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:23 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project ..time to look at the control logic PCB and the lampdriver board, if the MVC light comes on without touching it. If the thing thinks it is in MVC mode you won’t get very far without fixing that first. That long inline IC on the lampdriver board is a typical failure, and you won’t find one anywhere. You can use a later model lampdriver board….. I think the control logic PCB hasn’t changed either, so a later one, at least to test it, is an option. From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:21 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #589 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:38 am Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I'm probably going to regret this, but..... In a couple of weeks I'll be visiting a studio with 2 well kept and properly working JH110 machines. If you want to ship all the plug-on transport electronics boards (analog torque, lampdriver,control logic, phase lock loop) to me with return postage inside for them, I'll test the boards for you, service them if I can do so quickly, and ship them back to you. To a limited degree I can adjust them as well, although that is a poor substitute for doing so on the machine they belong on. At least it would be a starting point. Even with the correct manual, many of the adjustments are better done by techniques different than the simple ones in the manual. The very least you'd get out of it is knowing what PCB you need to replace, and the best would be at least a machine with turning reels and response to transport commands. The studio involved has agreed to take the risk on my assurance that I will cover any damage that might be incurred to their machines, as they have been a client for may years. I would NOT hold you responsible in any way for any damages... if I'm dumb enough to offer, then it is on me. I'm not interested in any fees for doing this... just would like to see the recorder stay in the living, so to speak. You might, and with prior permission, be asked to pay for the odd IC to repair them, but for the most part I have extra replacements gathering dust that you are welcome to. It is up to you, and is a trust issue on both sides, but I can only offer..... :>) If you are interested, we can work out any details off-list..... ________________________________ From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thu 2/10/2005 3:20 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #590 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:38 am Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project eddieaudio Offline Send Email Now here is someone who obviously wealthy in both passion, time and resources. Now if only we could convince the CEOs, HMOs and Insurance Companies of the good ole US-of-A to be so generous... At 08:38 AM 2/11/2005, you wrote: I'm probably going to regret this, but..... In a couple of weeks I'll be visiting a studio with 2 well kept and properly working JH110 machines. If you want to ship all the plug-on transport electronics boards (analog torque, lampdriver,control logic, phase lock loop) to me with return postage inside for them, I'll test the boards for you, service them if I can do so quickly, and ship them back to you. To a limited degree I can adjust them as well, although that is a poor substitute for doing so on the machine they belong on. At least it would be a starting point. Even with the correct manual, many of the adjustments are better done by techniques different than the simple ones in the manual. The very least you'd get out of it is knowing what PCB you need to replace, and the best would be at least a machine with turning reels and response to transport commands. The studio involved has agreed to take the risk on my assurance that I will cover any damage that might be incurred to their machines, as they have been a client for may years. I would NOT hold you responsible in any way for any damages... if I'm dumb enough to offer, then it is on me. I'm not interested in any fees for doing this... just would like to see the recorder stay in the living, so to speak. You might, and with prior permission, be asked to pay for the odd IC to repair them, but for the most part I have extra replacements gathering dust that you are welcome to. It is up to you, and is a trust issue on both sides, but I can only offer..... :>) If you are interested, we can work out any details off-list..... ________________________________ From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thu 2/10/2005 3:20 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #591 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:58 am Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I believe the "null" shadow switch on the early analog torque boards was for setting the DC offset null pots on the bottom left and right corners. It isn't on the later machines. They were removed both for cost and that when the switches got older, they caused transport problems due to dirly/corroded contacts. There is a different procedure for setting those in loo of having the switch, for those you must have the tape sensor blocked and the reel motors kept from moving at all during the adjustment process. Some folks disconnect the motor drivers for the process. Myself, I use sticky tape from each reel hub to the headstack for the short time required to make the adjustment. It is important to make sure the reel motors don't turn even slightly, because the offset adjustment setting is influenced by the signals from the tachometer signals on the reel motors. This process also works on the boards with the switch, as long as you don't use the switch. Mostly the switches get jumpered out to prevent problems. Hope that helps... ________________________________ From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thu 2/10/2005 3:20 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #592 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:10 am Subject: RE: MCI JH 110 project ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email LOL... .....just a single dad with two young children who is too old (52) to forget that what goes around comes around..... ________________________________ From: eddie ciletti [mailto:edaudio@...] Sent: Fri 2/11/2005 8:38 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Now here is someone who obviously wealthy in both passion, time and resources. Now if only we could convince the CEOs, HMOs and Insurance Companies of the good ole US-of-A to be so generous... At 08:38 AM 2/11/2005, you wrote: I'm probably going to regret this, but..... In a couple of weeks I'll be visiting a studio with 2 well kept and properly working JH110 machines. If you want to ship all the plug-on transport electronics boards (analog torque, lampdriver,control logic, phase lock loop) to me with return postage inside for them, I'll test the boards for you, service them if I can do so quickly, and ship them back to you. To a limited degree I can adjust them as well, although that is a poor substitute for doing so on the machine they belong on. At least it would be a starting point. Even with the correct manual, many of the adjustments are better done by techniques different than the simple ones in the manual. The very least you'd get out of it is knowing what PCB you need to replace, and the best would be at least a machine with turning reels and response to transport commands. The studio involved has agreed to take the risk on my assurance that I will cover any damage that might be incurred to their machines, as they have been a client for may years. I would NOT hold you responsible in any way for any damages... if I'm dumb enough to offer, then it is on me. I'm not interested in any fees for doing this... just would like to see the recorder stay in the living, so to speak. You might, and with prior permission, be asked to pay for the odd IC to repair them, but for the most part I have extra replacements gathering dust that you are welcome to. It is up to you, and is a trust issue on both sides, but I can only offer..... :>) If you are interested, we can work out any details off-list..... ________________________________ From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@...] Sent: Thu 2/10/2005 3:20 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project Thanks for the welcome! I feel at home already. My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the v. matched the number of the connector. Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on the transport light up when pressed. I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a few. BUT I like a challenge! Thanks in advance! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #593 From: "reeltapegone1" Date: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:40 am Subject: Re: MCI JH 110 project reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email Hello: >If you want to ship all the plug-on transport electronics boards (analog torque, lampdriver,control logic, phase lock loop) to me with return postage inside for them, I'll test the boards for you, service them if I can do so quickly, and ship them back to you. What a amazing offer! I'm a bit over my head on the MCI as I have never worked on one. it is a very complex design for 1974. Compared to the other offerings in the marketplace in 1974 I can see how Jeep made big inroads. I wonder how the MCI compared price wise with Ampex,Scully and the others. My Broadcast engineering mags only go back to 1978 and they usally never quoted price . Hopefully the MCI can live again to take a place in my basement "museum" of over 260 machines. Thanks again to evereyone for the help!!! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #594 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:55 am Subject: Re: [AMPEX] Screws for reels & unflat flanges and their use richardlhess Offline Send Email I don't have a good way of flattening bent flanges, but I do have a funny bent-flange story. When Jim Wheeler and I were doing the Mullin/Palmer tapes we needed flat flanges without the three hole dimples for the countersunk screws. So, I took an Ampex 12.5" reel and put it on the flat portion of my bench vise and took a hammer and flattened it. When we started to use it, we discovered that the process had increased the intter hole circumfrance slightly and the flange was now conical. I gave the flanges to the boys with the warning I would take them back if they were used as frisbees. So, we get to "THE BIG DONUT" tape--a DIN pancake where the center six inches had fallen out. Jim and I scratched out heads for a while. I then went to the boys, and asked for the flanges back. They hadn't damaged them. I then put the two flanges together without a hub between them so that the cones slightly and gently contacted the inside of the big hole--a self-centering way of playing a tape that has suffered from a different kind of "drop out" There are pictures of the end of the Big Donut on my Web site. As to the prong on the 3M and other flanges, if you bend it back, it usually breaks off flush. I'm copying the Sony APR group as a few people there might enjoy this story and it was done on the 12.5" capacity APR 5000. -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Tom Fine asks: > > This brings up a question. Does anyone have a good method for flattening > bent flanges? > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #595 From: toro 3SM/IARM Date: Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:06 pm Subject: REEL TAPE? toro3stream Offline Send Email So, has anyone pinpointed a trustworthy place to order 1/4" high quality tape? Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #596 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:22 pm Subject: Re: REEL TAPE? richardlhess Offline Send Email US Recording has a presence on the Ampex list and they appear trustworthy. By June we should have revised EMTEC tape, ATRService.com tape, and hopefully Quantegy to choose from... Good luck for right now. Cheers, Richard At 04:06 PM 2/20/2005, you wrote: >So, has anyone pinpointed a trustworthy place to order 1/4" high quality >tape? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #597 From: "bae_steve" Date: Fri Mar 4, 2005 1:38 am Subject: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell bae_steve Offline Send Email Anyone have a spare they're willing to part w/, or a source? Gene Breeden in the UA Tower/Nashville, needs one. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #598 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Mar 4, 2005 8:44 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell eddieaudio Offline Send Email too bad you can't revert to the original opto interrupter... At 12:38 AM 3/4/2005, you wrote: Anyone have a spare they're willing to part w/, or a source? Gene Breeden in the UA Tower/Nashville, needs one. SS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #599 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Mar 4, 2005 5:31 pm Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell richardlhess Offline Send Email I don't know how many spares I have nor what their failure trajectory is, so I'm not ready to sell one. BUT are you sure it's gone? There is an adjustment on one of the boards that can bring a flaky one back into spec. I've done it. It's in the manual. The manual is on my Web site http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: 5003v Cheers, Richard At 01:38 AM 3/4/2005, you wrote: >Anyone have a spare they're willing to part w/, or a source? Gene >Breeden in the UA Tower/Nashville, needs one. > > >SS > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #601 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sun Mar 6, 2005 5:26 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell allegrosound Offline Send Email do you happen to have a headblock cover-plate you can part with ? ladewd wrote: I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. You're welcome to it if you need it. Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #602 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 1:17 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell ladewd Offline Send Email Sorry, I don't have one, even for my machine. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > do you happen to have a > headblock cover-plate > you can part with ? > > ladewd wrote: > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #603 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:10 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell bae_steve Offline Send Email Isn't it hateful, being a dedicated service tech., and having to strip your own machine in order to service a good client. Gene Breeden is one of Nashville's best. I can't let him not use his APR 5K2 1/4- 1/2 machine in the studio because it won't stop when the tape runs out. I have to give him mine. I can't wake up in the middle of the night knowing/screaming, there are reels rotating @ play/wind spd., spewing bits everywhere. Thanks for looking for an alternative, but we all knew I was always the last resort. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Sorry, I don't have one, even for my machine. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > do you happen to have a > > headblock cover-plate > > you can part with ? > > > > ladewd wrote: > > > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #604 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:27 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell bae_steve Offline Send Email Rick, I checked w/ a local sheet metal tooling company and then w/ a company who could match the paint. I can refer them to you and it will only cost you $376, 000 for set-up and tooling and then if you order 1,000 pcs., it's only $10.24 ea. The one I have is only $100.00. and can be used as a prototype. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > do you happen to have a > headblock cover-plate > you can part with ? > > ladewd wrote: > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #605 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:01 am Subject: Re: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell allegrosound Offline Send Email Steve, need any vacuum tubes for mic, mic-pre, limiter, etc ?? bae_steve wrote: Rick, I checked w/ a local sheet metal tooling company and then w/ a company who could match the paint. I can refer them to you and it will only cost you $376, 000 for set-up and tooling and then if you order 1,000 pcs., it's only $10.24 ea. The one I have is only $100.00. and can be used as a prototype. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > do you happen to have a > headblock cover-plate > you can part with ? > > ladewd wrote: > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > You're welcome to it if you need it. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #606 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:04 am Subject: Re: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell bae_steve Offline Send Email I'll trade straight across for a pair of 45's, or 80's. SS -----Original Message----- From: Rick@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:01:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell Steve, need any vacuum tubes for mic, mic-pre, limiter, etc ?? bae_steve wrote: Rick, I checked w/ a local sheet metal tooling company and then w/ a company who could match the paint. I can refer them to you and it will only cost you $376, 000 for set-up and tooling and then if you order 1,000 pcs., it's only $10.24 ea. The one I have is only $100.00. and can be used as a prototype. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > do you happen to have a > headblock cover-plate > you can part with ? > > ladewd wrote: > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > You're welcome to it if you need it. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #607 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:10 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell bae_steve Offline Send Email P.S. if you take them from me on E-Bay, or cause the price to be jacked up, I'm libel to be in attitude mode.......I am Jeeptek. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@a... wrote: > I'll trade straight across for a pair of 45's, or 80's. > > SS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick@A... > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:01:09 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell > > > Steve, need any vacuum tubes > for mic, mic-pre, limiter, etc ?? > > bae_steve wrote: > > Rick, I checked w/ a local sheet metal tooling company and then w/ a company who could match the paint. I can refer them to you and it will only cost you $376, 000 for set-up and tooling and then if you order 1,000 pcs., it's only $10.24 ea. The one I have is only $100.00. and can be used as a prototype. SS > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > do you happen to have a > > headblock cover-plate > > you can part with ? > > > > ladewd wrote: > > > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #608 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:27 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell richardlhess Offline Send Email Steve, Make sure you get the alleged defective one back and see exactly what's wrong with it. Perhaps it could be re-manufactured. Sorry you had to strip a working machine. When I have some free time after my studio is built, remind me to check my broken machines for a photocell. Cheers, Richard At 12:10 AM 3/12/2005, you wrote: >Isn't it hateful, being a dedicated service tech., and having to >strip your own machine in order to service a good client. Gene >Breeden is one of Nashville's best. I can't let him not use his APR >5K2 1/4- 1/2 machine in the studio because it won't stop when the >tape runs out. > >I have to give him mine. I can't wake up in the middle of the night >knowing/screaming, there are reels rotating @ play/wind spd., spewing >bits everywhere. > >Thanks for looking for an alternative, but we all knew I was always >the last resort. > >SS > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Sorry, I don't have one, even for my machine. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > do you happen to have a > > > headblock cover-plate > > > you can part with ? > > > > > > ladewd wrote: > > > > > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > > > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #609 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:52 am Subject: Re: APR5K Tape Break Photo Cell ladewd Offline Send Email If you were careful with an exacto, you could have gotten the photocells out of the APR24 EOT. I'll admit its no fun, but in a clinch I would have given it a try. Those things have to be quite rare these days. Cary - -- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Steve, > > Make sure you get the alleged defective one back and see exactly what's > wrong with it. Perhaps it could be re-manufactured. > > Sorry you had to strip a working machine. When I have some free time after > my studio is built, remind me to check my broken machines for a photocell. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 12:10 AM 3/12/2005, you wrote: > > > >Isn't it hateful, being a dedicated service tech., and having to > >strip your own machine in order to service a good client. Gene > >Breeden is one of Nashville's best. I can't let him not use his APR > >5K2 1/4- 1/2 machine in the studio because it won't stop when the > >tape runs out. > > > >I have to give him mine. I can't wake up in the middle of the night > >knowing/screaming, there are reels rotating @ play/wind spd., spewing > >bits everywhere. > > > >Thanks for looking for an alternative, but we all knew I was always > >the last resort. > > > >SS > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, I don't have one, even for my machine. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > > > do you happen to have a > > > > headblock cover-plate > > > > you can part with ? > > > > > > > > ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a photocell assembly from an APR24. > > > > You're welcome to it if you need it. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > > > > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #610 From: "adamacr1" Date: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:48 pm Subject: APR24 manual adamacr1 Offline Send Email Hi, I just joined the list - I'm buying an APR24 for a new studio I'm putting together, but the seller cannot find the manual. Does anyone have a PDF or hard copy available? Thanks very much, Adam Cooke Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #611 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:16 pm Subject: Re: APR24 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Adam, The APR-24 manual is sparse. There are a LOT of similarities to the APR-5003V which is available in PDF format http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: 5003v Cheers, Richard At 04:48 PM 3/14/2005, you wrote: Hi, I just joined the list - I'm buying an APR24 for a new studio I'm putting together, but the seller cannot find the manual. Does anyone have a PDF or hard copy available? Thanks very much, Adam Cooke ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #612 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:51 pm Subject: Re: APR24 manual bae_steve Offline Send Email Randy Blevins has excellent photo copies in binders for $150.00. Call John @ 615-242-0596 x 12. Ok, Cary, send me the APR photo cell, I have a new exacto blade waiting for it. SS -----Original Message----- From: adamacr1 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:48:53 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 manual Hi, I just joined the list - I'm buying an APR24 for a new studio I'm putting together, but the seller cannot find the manual. Does anyone have a PDF or hard copy available? Thanks very much, Adam Cooke ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #613 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:09 pm Subject: RE: APR24 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have recently purchased a APR-24 with all the manuals. It hasn't been delivered, but when it is I may be able to help with at least specific parts. I've just gotten out of the hospital from some (more) heart surgery, so I'm a little slow and disorganized, but I'll help when I can. Possibly given some time I will be able to post all of it as a PDF somewhere for access. I have another gentleman on list that I promised I would help with his JH110 PCB's, so he gets my first available time. (S/B weekend after next, if my health holds up to help him out) With luck I can also get my hands on the manuals about the same time. Is there a particular bit of info you are looking for ? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:16 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR24 manual Hi, Adam, The APR-24 manual is sparse. There are a LOT of similarities to the APR-5003V which is available in PDF format http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: 5003v Cheers, Richard At 04:48 PM 3/14/2005, you wrote: Hi, I just joined the list - I'm buying an APR24 for a new studio I'm putting together, but the seller cannot find the manual. Does anyone have a PDF or hard copy available? Thanks very much, Adam Cooke ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #614 From: "adamacr1" Date: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:19 pm Subject: Re: APR24 manual adamacr1 Offline Send Email Hi and thanks for the helpful replies. Richard, I've already downloaded the APR5003V manual from your site, which has helped me to get started with the APR24. We just picked it up in NYC yesterday. Scott, thanks - I don't know exactly what I'll need from the manual yet, but if you do get a chance to make a PDF at some point, that would be great. There's no rush because the studio is still being built, and won't be done for at least a couple months. We have plenty of time to get the equipment sorted out. Steve, thanks for the suggestion to contact Blevins Audio. We also have an MCI JH636 console, so we'll definitely be in touch as things move along. Adam Cooke Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #615 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Apr 1, 2005 1:36 am Subject: MX-80 question eddieaudio Offline Send Email William I know very little about the MX-80 but I'm forwarding this to the Sony / MCI users list to see if perhaps they could either help or direct you to some help. (read below) eddie ciletti Otari MX-80 Error 73 Bad news? Help!!! Please Help Im up the creek with a small paddle. Big probs with my MX-80 deck. During seeion today (of course) after power outage of five or so seconds the MX80 took a nosedive. Symptoms are as follows: Error 73 flahing on the deck but not the locator Audio was passing in playback and it would record but it was acting real wierdlike the logic was trying real hard then gettin stupid an failing. after 30 seconds of play or record the deck would break tension and stop. some communication probs with the transport which would initially work then stop counting and reset from sel rep to individual as well as disarm all tracks even if the switch was armed. luckily the transport worked enough to wind off the tape I need to be back in operation by monday so if anyone could help please shed some light. Thanks William Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #616 From: "Peter Florance" Date: Fri Apr 1, 2005 7:29 am Subject: Re: MX-80 question florance23454 Offline Send Email There's a local MX80 that has tortured me for years Some things to look for: 1) Open caps in power supply board. I'm talking big main filter caps soldered to the board. You'll see lots of ripple - test it cold to make it easier to detect 2) Overheated connectors (brown single row pins on .1" centers") for control(CPU? can't recall name) board. Check all of them. They'll be discolored around the hot contacts. Even check them on other boards like control etc. They always be power supply feeds. 3) intermittant cable from remote. Sometime female contacts wear but I think this is rare. 4) Bad memory cap on remote 5) Shorted lineout IC on audio board. Can cause strange results in control. If the machine is powered 24/7 like a lot of machines, start with #1 and #2. HTH Peter Florance Audio Services http://www.audio-services.com --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > William > > I know very little about the MX-80 but I'm forwarding this to the Sony / > MCI users list to see if perhaps they could either help or direct you to > some help. (read below) > > eddie ciletti > > > >Otari MX-80 Error 73 Bad news? Help!!! > > > >Please Help Im up the creek with a small paddle. Big probs with my MX-80 deck. > > > >During seeion today (of course) after power outage of five or so seconds > >the MX80 took a nosedive. Symptoms are as follows: > > > >Error 73 flahing on the deck but not the locator > > > >Audio was passing in playback and it would record but it was acting real > >wierdlike the logic was trying real hard then gettin stupid an failing. > > > >after 30 seconds of play or record the deck would break tension and stop. > > > >some communication probs with the transport which would initially work > >then stop counting and reset from sel rep to individual as well as disarm > >all tracks even if the switch was armed. > > > >luckily the transport worked enough to wind off the tape > > > >I need to be back in operation by monday so if anyone could help please > >shed some light. > > > >Thanks > > > >William > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #618 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Apr 1, 2005 7:45 am Subject: Re: MX-80 question richardlhess Offline Send Email I believe there is an Otari list within Yahoo groups but I can't look for it right now. There may be more help there. Thanks for helping, Eddie and Peter -- it's great that you guys are trying to keep analog alive! As an aside, Studer A810s suffer from shorted electrolytic bypass caps on the mother boards which are a mother to get out and recap! Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting Peter Florance CET/CSM : I posted my experiences Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #619 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Apr 1, 2005 9:16 am Subject: Re: MX-80 question eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Richard! At 06:45 AM 4/1/2005, you wrote: I believe there is an Otari list within Yahoo groups but I can't look for it right now. There may be more help there. Thanks for helping, Eddie and Peter -- it's great that you guys are trying to keep analog alive! As an aside, Studer A810s suffer from shorted electrolytic bypass caps on the mother boards which are a mother to get out and recap! Cheers, Richard -- Richard L. Hess http://www.richardhess.com/ Quoting Peter Florance CET/CSM : I posted my experiences Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #620 From: "Peter Florance" Date: Fri Apr 1, 2005 11:31 am Subject: Re: MX-80 question florance23454 Offline Send Email Is there a group for Studer? I got my A810 sort of working (shorted cap on front panel) but it doesn't operate like I expect to. Almost like some option is set to govern its functions (like a timer-play when powered up). I don't have the manual nor does my customer. )-: thanks and sorry for OT Peter --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > I believe there is an Otari list within Yahoo groups but I can't look for it > right now. > > There may be more help there. Thanks for helping, Eddie and Peter -- > it's great > that you guys are trying to keep analog alive! > > As an aside, Studer A810s suffer from shorted electrolytic bypass caps on the > mother boards which are a mother to get out and recap! > > Cheers, > > Richard > -- > > Richard L. Hess > http://www.richardhess.com/ > > > Quoting Peter Florance CET/CSM : > > > I posted my experiences Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #621 From: "AudioSynergy" Date: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:34 am Subject: Re: APR24 manual audiosynergy Offline Send Email Hey all, sorry to intervene here though I just wanted to say thankyou to all the APR group for on going support and chatter alongside info and tech help which is invaluable, and to Scott.......please take care man, sorry to hear your not well, though we hope your punching hard again ASAP. Best AudioSynergy Sydney Australia P.S I have an APR 50003 V Manual that anyone is welcome to Copy as the manual landed in my lap due to a kind friend who used to work with such units - (I Always like to pass the Karma on!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR24 manual I have recently purchased a APR-24 with all the manuals. It hasn't been delivered, but when it is I may be able to help with at least specific parts. I've just gotten out of the hospital from some (more) heart surgery, so I'm a little slow and disorganized, but I'll help when I can. Possibly given some time I will be able to post all of it as a PDF somewhere for access. I have another gentleman on list that I promised I would help with his JH110 PCB's, so he gets my first available time. (S/B weekend after next, if my health holds up to help him out) With luck I can also get my hands on the manuals about the same time. Is there a particular bit of info you are looking for ? From: Richard L. Hess [mailto:arclists@...] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:16 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR24 manual Hi, Adam, The APR-24 manual is sparse. There are a LOT of similarities to the APR-5003V which is available in PDF format http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: 5003v Cheers, Richard At 04:48 PM 3/14/2005, you wrote: Hi, I just joined the list - I'm buying an APR24 for a new studio I'm putting together, but the seller cannot find the manual. Does anyone have a PDF or hard copy available? Thanks very much, Adam Cooke ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #622 From: "bae_steve" Date: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:04 am Subject: FYI bae_steve Offline Send Email I had the opportunity to go on an emergency service call this last friday, on an APR24. It occured to me this problem may crop up on an APR 5KX. There was masking tape on the top of the turntables which should have given me a clue (since turntable height is shimed the same as JH machines), but the problem was that the supply motor had seized up.....no rotation....physically couldn't turn it. At first I thaught It would have to be sent off to Chriss and Tom @ AMP, but then I took the brakes off (which I didn't have to do) and found that the allen screw holding the turntable to the reel motor shaft had allowed the turntable (obviously from several years of dropping heavy 2" reels onto the turntable) to slip down an make contact w/ the motor body. Loosening the allen screws, resetting the turntable height (I still have my blocks) and putting some torque on the damn screws fixed the problem. Every screw at the factory had a torque setting. No one considered 10 years of apprentices dropping 20 lbs. on top of the turntables every day. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #623 From: "bae_steve" Date: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:47 am Subject: Re: MCI JH 110 project bae_steve Offline Send Email Damn, Scott......I don't know if you or I are the recipient of my re- reading of the reply I was going to send to this post. Considering I'm in Nashville on a rainy day, and you're in So. Fla. on a Sunny day, I'm probably more thankful I deleted it. SS -- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > I believe the "null" shadow switch on the early analog torque boards was for setting the DC offset null pots on the bottom left and right corners. It isn't on the later machines. They were removed both for cost and that when the switches got older, they caused transport problems due to dirly/corroded contacts. > > There is a different procedure for setting those in loo of having the switch, for those you must have the tape sensor blocked and the reel motors kept from moving at all during the adjustment process. Some folks disconnect the motor drivers for the process. Myself, I use sticky tape from each reel hub to the headstack for the short time required to make the adjustment. It is important to make sure the reel motors don't turn even slightly, because the offset adjustment setting is influenced by the signals from the tachometer signals on the reel motors. This process also works on the boards with the switch, as long as you don't use the switch. Mostly the switches get jumpered out to prevent problems. > > Hope that helps... > > ________________________________ > > From: reeltapegone1 [mailto:reeltapegone1@y...] > Sent: Thu 2/10/2005 3:20 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH 110 project > > > > Thanks for the welcome! > I feel at home already. > > My friend in Nashville bought his JH 24 from Jeep in 1976? or so. He told me > that the early 110 electronics were 440 Ampex clones. > > I have looked at all the Molex and cleaned and cked for continuity. Seems ok. > When I received the machine it was missing the power cord to the electronics. > Once I found a 15 pin Jones and the right Molex I made one up with the > manual and checking the voltages at the power supply to see if they matched > up. As far as I can tell they didn't change the power supply (from 1986) as the > v. matched the number of the connector. > > Could be wrong as only the ready light comes on on the electronics. > > When powered up (usually) the feed motor /take up will run and the MVC will > light up. Sometimes the takeup /feed will respond to the stop button, but will > restart upon release. I have seen the play button light up once and engage > the pinch roller but that was intermittent. No capstan motor start at that time. > > What is the function of the Null button on the analog board?. All the buttons on > the transport light up when pressed. > > I guess I need a older manual.......or stick to Ampexes ......of which I have a > few. BUT I like a challenge! > > Thanks in advance! > > "reeltapegone" > > Matt Laube > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #624 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:00 pm Subject: Re: FYI ladewd Offline Send Email This was an issue back when they were in production. Their decision was to put an extra setscrew behind the original one. They're a bitch to set up aren't they? We had to ship a new assembly out to someone in NY when the turntable slipped. We didn't even send someone out. They should have stuck with the MCI design on that one but we had Tak and company designing assemblies that were carbon copies of 1" Sony video machines. CA --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > > I had the opportunity to go on an emergency service call this last > friday, on an APR24. It occured to me this problem may crop up on an > APR 5KX. There was masking tape on the top of the turntables which > should have given me a clue (since turntable height is shimed the > same as JH machines), but the problem was that the supply motor had > seized up.....no rotation....physically couldn't turn it. > > At first I thaught It would have to be sent off to Chriss and Tom @ > AMP, but then I took the brakes off (which I didn't have to do) and > found that the allen screw holding the turntable to the reel motor > shaft had allowed the turntable (obviously from several years of > dropping heavy 2" reels onto the turntable) to slip down an make > contact w/ the motor body. Loosening the allen screws, resetting the > turntable height (I still have my blocks) and putting some torque on > the damn screws fixed the problem. > > Every screw at the factory had a torque setting. No one considered > 10 years of apprentices dropping 20 lbs. on top of the turntables > every day. > > SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #625 From: "reeltapegone1" Date: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:18 pm Subject: Scott Phillips OK? reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email Has anyone heard from Scott? Last I spoke he was going to ship my MCI boards to me and I haven't heard from him since. That was on the 7th. I hope he is ok "reeltapegone" Matt Laube reeltapegone@... JH-110 project Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #626 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:17 am Subject: RE: Scott Phillips OK? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Hi, My name is Sharie Grate, I'm a friend of Scott's minding his place and his dog while he is in the hospital. He has had some heart surgery but is doing better.. He should be released in another week or so. I've been printing out his email for him and dropping it over at the hospital, and he asked me to reply to you. He had me send a package to Matt a few days ago of some circuit boards of some type, but I don't know what they were. Hope this helps !! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reeltapegone1 Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Scott Phillips OK? Has anyone heard from Scott? Last I spoke he was going to ship my MCI boards to me and I haven't heard from him since. That was on the 7th. I hope he is ok "reeltapegone" Matt Laube reeltapegone@... JH-110 project Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #627 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:54 pm Subject: Re: Scott Phillips OK? ladewd Offline Send Email Sharie, Please relay my best to Scott and tell him to get well soon. I hope this is the last operation! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Sharie Grate, I'm a friend of Scott's minding his place and > his dog while he is in the hospital. He has had some heart surgery but > is doing better.. He should be released in another week or so. I've been > printing out his email for him and dropping it over at the hospital, and > he asked me to reply to you. > > He had me send a package to Matt a few days ago of some circuit boards > of some type, but I don't know what they were. Hope this helps !! > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of reeltapegone1 > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:18 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Scott Phillips OK? > > > > Has anyone heard from Scott? Last I spoke he was going to ship my MCI > boards to me and I haven't heard from him since. That was on the 7th. > > I hope he is ok > > "reeltapegone" > Matt Laube > reeltapegone@h... > JH-110 project > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #628 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:42 pm Subject: Ampex Master Equalization (AME) data sheet updated richardlhess Offline Send Email I updated my Web page on AME to include a parts list and a larger (more readable) version of my frequency plot. The parts list includes the DigiKey part numbers. Each filter channel is probably $10 in parts, and I'm not set up for manufacturing. Somebody should do a PC board for this. I made two 3-channel units (one for a client and one for myself), but the assembly/packaging is not my strong point. I have to charge too much to make it worth my while. Anyway, you can find it here: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ame_equalizer_20040412.pdf I'm also happy to say that "AME Equalizer" typed with or without quotes in Google will get you this as well . I hope you all find this helpful. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #629 From: twjolly@... Date: Sun May 1, 2005 2:39 am Subject: Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003 twjjolly Offline Send Email Hello group.... Can anyone tell me of the BEST (easiest) way to remove the power supply from an APR-5003? I am sure someone has done this before and could possibly share the info. I recall seeing this here before, but could not locate the details. I have a very hot machine with a screaming fan that needs immediate attention. And so it's out of use until I can get to this. But wanted to get the best procedure before going forward. Thanks for any help you can share. Regards, Ted Jolly Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #630 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun May 1, 2005 5:30 pm Subject: RE: Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think this information came from Cary.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twjolly@... Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:39 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003 Hello group.... Can anyone tell me of the BEST (easiest) way to remove the power supply from an APR-5003? I am sure someone has done this before and could possibly share the info. I recall seeing this here before, but could not locate the details. I have a very hot machine with a screaming fan that needs immediate attention. And so it's out of use until I can get to this. But wanted to get the best procedure before going forward. Thanks for any help you can share. Regards, Ted Jolly Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #631 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon May 2, 2005 1:39 pm Subject: Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003 paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Scott's right on...see message 102 from Cary (ladewd) (April 2, 2004 8:21 am) for detailed instructions on removing the power supply. If you end up needing a replacement fan, the Pabst 614NGL-EBM (60mm) is the quietest (24V) replacement fan we were able to identify (rated at 16 dB(A), if I remember correctly). Available from Galco Industrial Electronics for $16.46. A few of us got together and bought several back in January, as Galco has a $50 minimum order. I *still* haven't gotten around to installing mine. Richard or Kevin, have either of you had a chance to try out these Pabst fans? Curious as to how "quiet" they really turned out to be. Regards, Paul McCulloh --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > Hello group.... > > Can anyone tell me of the BEST (easiest) way to remove the power supply from > an APR-5003? > > I am sure someone has done this before and could possibly share the info. I > recall seeing this here before, but could not locate the details. > > I have a very hot machine with a screaming fan that needs immediate > attention. And so it's out of use until I can get to this. But wanted to get the best > procedure before going forward. > > Thanks for any help you can share. > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #632 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon May 2, 2005 2:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003, Richard's studio progress richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:39 PM 5/2/2005, Paul McCulloh wrote: If you end up needing a replacement fan, the Pabst 614NGL-EBM (60mm) is the quietest (24V) replacement fan we were able to identify ... I *still* haven't gotten around to installing mine. Richard or Kevin, have either of you had a chance to try out these Pabst fans? Shelfware here, too! Good news, the studio will be finished within 3 weeks, probably two. We're cutting the oak trim today, will put the bags of itch in tomorrow, the carpet tiles Wednesday and do the fabric wrapped panels Thurs/Fri. The wiring is all in except for 17 prefab 8-pair snakes which will be arriving this week. Some were custom made and others were bought. We've got 7 rows of 2x24 patch bays. Of those 336 holes, 332 will be occupied on day one. Of those 332 holes, to be fair, 32 are eight four-position mults, leaving 300 "real" cables. Of those "real" cables, 36 are pulled-in spares, so that leaves 264 equipment connections. 128 of those are taken up by the APR-16 (record/play), 16 channels of Dolby A (play only), 16 channels of dbx I (play only) and 16 channels of RME Multiface (2 units, A-D and D-A) 24/96 converters. Both of the APR-5003s and both of the Studer A810s have 7 lines: Stereo in/out (4), timecode in/out (2), capstan reference input (1). There's also a timecode I/O and ref in for the APR-16. Monitoring is via a Blue Sky Bass Management Controller and five Mackie HR-824s as well as an Energy subwoofer (due for replacement with a Paradigm someday). Other gear in the patchbay: Two Nakamichi Dragons, Tascam 234 and 238 cassette recorders, an Akai 4-channel "8-track" Lear cartridge recorder, a Sony MiniDisk, a Panasonic SV-3800 DAT recorder, 4 channels of Dolby B (play only) and 4 channels of dbx II (play only). The DAT, MD, the two Multifaces, and the Sony 3202 DASH machine all connect via a now discontinued MidiMan SPDIF router. There is an ADAT light pipe I/O on each of the two Multifaces (but I only have one ADAT XT-20). I have remotes for the two APR-5003s and the 3202 sitting on the 10'4" wide worksurface along with three 17" 1280x1024 Samsung fast LCDs. Powering the LCDs are two Dell 8300 3GHz PCs with 1G of RAM each and 120G C: drives. The audio machine has a 250G D: drive and both have Plextor DVD Writers in them. The main data store is a pair of LaCie Etherenet Discs with 500G internal (each) and two 250G firewire drives. In a few weeks, one of these 1TB stores (the mirror one) will move to my neighbor's house. I've got four Cat-5-to-dual SC fibre media converters (the other two are for his network coming this way to his 250G IOMega ethernet attached disk. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #633 From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon May 2, 2005 4:20 pm Subject: New file uploaded to sony_apr sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Send Email Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr group. File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt Uploaded by : paulmcculloh Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the%20Sony%20APR%205003V\ %20Power%20Supply.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, paulmcculloh Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #634 From: twjolly@... Date: Mon May 2, 2005 1:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: Removing Power Supply from an APR- 5003 twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Paul. I have the same fan that I bought a while back after seeing the same info posted here. So I am all set to go. Thanks for the reply, Ted Jolly In a message dated 5/2/2005 10:42:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pmc@... writes: Scott's right on...see message 102 from Cary (ladewd) (April 2, 2004 8:21 am) for detailed instructions on removing the power supply. If you end up needing a replacement fan, the Pabst 614NGL-EBM (60mm) is the quietest (24V) replacement fan we were able to identify (rated at 16 dB(A), if I remember correctly). Available from Galco Industrial Electronics for $16.46. A few of us got together and bought several back in January, as Galco has a $50 minimum order. I *still* haven't gotten around to installing mine. Richard or Kevin, have either of you had a chance to try out these Pabst fans? Curious as to how "quiet" they really turned out to be. Regards, Paul McCulloh Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #635 From: twjolly@... Date: Mon May 2, 2005 3:48 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Paul, I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the info. Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole unit. NEW PROBLEM.... Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps has a nice bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably overheated while the fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on the cap). Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can caps? I have been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals (non Elna), but you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate with the plastic insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to pass thru the insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? Thanks for all the great help guys! Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr group. File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt Uploaded by : paulmcculloh Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the%20Sony%20APR%205003V%20Power%20Supply.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, paulmcculloh Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #636 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue May 3, 2005 9:29 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ladewd Offline Send Email Ted, Is the cap bulging on the top or the side? I know you said side, but I want to clarify. Even when new, these caps looked like they were puffed up with air on the rubber portion of the top cap. If this isn't the case, then never mind. I'm not sure of a source for these, but they shouldn't be impossible to find. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Paul, > > I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the info. > > Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole unit. > > NEW PROBLEM.... > > Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps has a nice > bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably overheated while the > fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on the cap). > > Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can caps? I have > been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals (non Elna), but > you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate with the plastic > insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to pass thru the > insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. > > Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? > > Thanks for all the great help guys! > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > > > In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr > group. > > File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt > Uploaded by : paulmcculloh > Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the%20Sony% 20APR%20500 > 3V%20Power%20Supply.txt > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > paulmcculloh Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #637 From: twjolly@... Date: Tue May 3, 2005 7:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS twjjolly Offline Send Email Hi Cary, The cap was bulged on the side. Further investigation after the cap was removed revealed it had been leaking as well. The leaked electrolyte has now been cleaned. Locating this size (22,000 ufd / 50 vdc) screw terminal can cap in the proper width (2") , length (3" or under) with, and this is the BIG WITH...HIGH SCREW POST TERMINALS (not the normal low post version)...is a problem! Even going to a higher ufd and/or voltage rating yields no better replacement search results. Elna (original mfg) no longer makes these, according to Elna, USA. Any ideas for other sources? ! have tried Allied, Mouser, Digikey, Newark, Farnel, Avnet. Looked at Mallory, Vishay/Sprague, CDE, Panasonic, Nichicon. Thanks for any help. Regards, Ted In a message dated 5/3/2005 6:30:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Ted, Is the cap bulging on the top or the side? I know you said side, but I want to clarify. Even when new, these caps looked like they were puffed up with air on the rubber portion of the top cap. If this isn't the case, then never mind. I'm not sure of a source for these, but they shouldn't be impossible to find. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Paul, > > I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the info. > > Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole unit. > > NEW PROBLEM.... > > Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps has a nice > bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably overheated while the > fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on the cap). > > Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can caps? I have > been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals (non Elna), but > you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate with the plastic > insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to pass thru the > insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. > > Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? > > Thanks for all the great help guys! > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > > > In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr > group. > > File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt > Uploaded by : paulmcculloh > Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the%20Sony% 20APR%20500 > 3V%20Power%20Supply.txt > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > paulmcculloh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #638 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed May 4, 2005 11:48 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ladewd Offline Send Email Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? They may have thrown away all the APR parts, but if this cap was used in another product, it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1- 125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > The cap was bulged on the side. Further investigation after the cap was > removed revealed it had been leaking as well. The leaked electrolyte has now been > cleaned. > > Locating this size (22,000 ufd / 50 vdc) screw terminal can cap in the > proper width (2") , length (3" or under) with, and this is the BIG WITH...HIGH > SCREW POST TERMINALS (not the normal low post version)...is a problem! > > Even going to a higher ufd and/or voltage rating yields no better > replacement search results. > > Elna (original mfg) no longer makes these, according to Elna, USA. > > Any ideas for other sources? ! have tried Allied, Mouser, Digikey, Newark, > Farnel, Avnet. Looked at Mallory, Vishay/Sprague, CDE, Panasonic, Nichicon. > > Thanks for any help. > > Regards, > > Ted > > In a message dated 5/3/2005 6:30:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted, > > Is the cap bulging on the top or the side? I know you said side, > but I want to clarify. Even when new, these caps looked like they > were puffed up with air on the rubber portion of the top cap. If > this isn't the case, then never mind. I'm not sure of a source > for these, but they shouldn't be impossible to find. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > Thanks Paul, > > > > I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the info. > > > > Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole > unit. > > > > NEW PROBLEM.... > > > > Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps > has a nice > > bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably overheated > while the > > fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on the > cap). > > > > Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can > caps? I have > > been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals (non > Elna), but > > you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate with > the plastic > > insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to pass > thru the > > insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. > > > > Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? > > > > Thanks for all the great help guys! > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted Jolly > > > > > > In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > Hello, > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr > > group. > > > > File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt > > Uploaded by : paulmcculloh > > Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the% 20Sony% > 20APR%20500 > > 3V%20Power%20Supply.txt > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > Regards, > > > > paulmcculloh > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------- -~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! > _Click Here!_ (http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM) > ------------------------------------------------------------------- -~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #639 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed May 4, 2005 2:37 pm Subject: Drive Pin (bulge) slotted screwdrivers richardlhess Offline Send Email Anyone know where to get the slotted screwdrivers with the round bulge in the middle? They aren't really drive pin screwdrivers like used for audio TRS jacks as those have holes through the screw and the pin is spring loaded. I think this is just a bulge in the tip, not a spring-loaded pin. Even a name would help. Thanks! These were used on early APRs prior to Philips screws being used. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #640 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed May 4, 2005 3:14 pm Subject: RE: Drive Pin (bulge) slotted screwdrivers ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Those were Totsu screws, made by (I seem to recall) HIOS of Japan. These are not to be confused with the newer Totsu design, the Totsupura. (That one is more like an odd Philips driver) Sony insisted on using the durn things because they used them on other products, and they were suited to automatic screw inserters / drivers. We all hated them. I've got a couple of bits for my torque screw driver, but I've had them so long I don't remember where I bought them at. If I can find a spare you can have it for the postage... but there were a couple of sizes. I don't remember what I've got, but I'll look. It is basically just a pin, it was to keep the driver from skidding sideways when driving them in. The air drivers did have a spring pin to hold them during insertion, but I seem to recall that the regular drivers only had pins. Hope this helps..... :>) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Drive Pin (bulge) slotted screwdrivers Anyone know where to get the slotted screwdrivers with the round bulge in the middle? They aren't really drive pin screwdrivers like used for audio TRS jacks as those have holes through the screw and the pin is spring loaded. I think this is just a bulge in the tip, not a spring-loaded pin. Even a name would help. Thanks! These were used on early APRs prior to Philips screws being used. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #641 From: twjolly@... Date: Wed May 4, 2005 2:38 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, I thought parts were no onger available. But you make a good point. Do you have a number for Sony parts? Thanks, Ted In a message dated 5/4/2005 8:56:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? They may have thrown away all the APR parts, but if this cap was used in another product, it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1- 125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > The cap was bulged on the side. Further investigation after the cap was > removed revealed it had been leaking as well. The leaked electrolyte has now been > cleaned. > > Locating this size (22,000 ufd / 50 vdc) screw terminal can cap in the > proper width (2") , length (3" or under) with, and this is the BIG WITH...HIGH > SCREW POST TERMINALS (not the normal low post version)...is a problem! > > Even going to a higher ufd and/or voltage rating yields no better > replacement search results. > > Elna (original mfg) no longer makes these, according to Elna, USA. > > Any ideas for other sources? ! have tried Allied, Mouser, Digikey, Newark, > Farnel, Avnet. Looked at Mallory, Vishay/Sprague, CDE, Panasonic, Nichicon. > > Thanks for any help. > > Regards, > > Ted > > In a message dated 5/3/2005 6:30:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted, > > Is the cap bulging on the top or the side? I know you said side, > but I want to clarify. Even when new, these caps looked like they > were puffed up with air on the rubber portion of the top cap. If > this isn't the case, then never mind. I'm not sure of a source > for these, but they shouldn't be impossible to find. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > Thanks Paul, > > > > I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the info. > > > > Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole > unit. > > > > NEW PROBLEM.... > > > > Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps > has a nice > > bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably overheated > while the > > fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on the > cap). > > > > Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can > caps? I have > > been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals (non > Elna), but > > you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate with > the plastic > > insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to pass > thru the > > insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. > > > > Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? > > > > Thanks for all the great help guys! > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted Jolly > > > > > > In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > Hello, > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr > > group. > > > > File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt > > Uploaded by : paulmcculloh > > Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the% 20Sony% > 20APR%20500 > > 3V%20Power%20Supply.txt > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > Regards, > > > > paulmcculloh > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------- -~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! > _Click Here!_ (http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM) > ------------------------------------------------------------------- -~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #642 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 5, 2005 9:23 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ladewd Offline Send Email Ted, Give Sony a call and pray. (800)538-7550 Good luck. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Cary, > > I thought parts were no onger available. But you make a good point. Do you > have a number for Sony parts? > > Thanks, > > Ted > > > In a message dated 5/4/2005 8:56:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted, > > It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? They may have thrown > away all the APR parts, but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1- > 125-455-11. Just a thought. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > The cap was bulged on the side. Further investigation after the > cap was > > removed revealed it had been leaking as well. The leaked > electrolyte has now been > > cleaned. > > > > Locating this size (22,000 ufd / 50 vdc) screw terminal can cap in > the > > proper width (2") , length (3" or under) with, and this is the > BIG WITH...HIGH > > SCREW POST TERMINALS (not the normal low post version)...is a > problem! > > > > Even going to a higher ufd and/or voltage rating yields no better > > replacement search results. > > > > Elna (original mfg) no longer makes these, according to Elna, USA. > > > > Any ideas for other sources? ! have tried Allied, Mouser, Digikey, > Newark, > > Farnel, Avnet. Looked at Mallory, Vishay/Sprague, CDE, Panasonic, > Nichicon. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2005 6:30:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > ladewd@y... writes: > > > > Ted, > > > > Is the cap bulging on the top or the side? I know you said side, > > but I want to clarify. Even when new, these caps looked like > they > > were puffed up with air on the rubber portion of the top cap. If > > this isn't the case, then never mind. I'm not sure of a > source > > for these, but they shouldn't be impossible to find. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Paul, > > > > > > I got the PSU out of the APR 5003, no problem. Thanks for the > info. > > > > > > Fan was caked in gunk. Replaced the fan and cleaned the whole > > unit. > > > > > > NEW PROBLEM.... > > > > > > Looking for replacement 'lytic caps...one of the large can caps > > has a nice > > > bulge on the side of it (Elna 22,000 ufd 50v). Probably > overheated > > while the > > > fan was not working. Or just old age (vintage 1969 printed on > the > > cap). > > > > > > Anyone have a good source for these 'long' screw terminal can > > caps? I have > > > been able to find ones with the SHORT length screw terminals > (non > > Elna), but > > > you MUST use the long terminal versions with this PSU to mate > with > > the plastic > > > insulator and have enough 'length' in the screw terminal to > pass > > thru the > > > insulator base and allow it to connect to the mounts below. > > > > > > Any good sources in the USA anyone can share? > > > > > > Thanks for all the great help guys! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ted Jolly > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/2/2005 1:22:46 P.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr > > > group. > > > > > > File : /Removing the Sony APR 5003V Power Supply.txt > > > Uploaded by : paulmcculloh > > > Description : Removing the Sony APR 5003V power supply > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/Removing%20the% > 20Sony% > > 20APR%20500 > > > 3V%20Power%20Supply.txt > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > paulmcculloh > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------- ---- > -~--> > > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? > > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! > > _Click Here!_ > (http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- > -~-> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------- -~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! > _Click Here!_ (http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/bDIolB/TM) > ------------------------------------------------------------------- -~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #643 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu May 5, 2005 11:47 am Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS allegrosound Offline Send Email ElectrolyticBlues: electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; this aging process accelerates when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); if Sony has any left on the shelf, they'd be too old to bother using; check the DateCode, even when ordering "new"; 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; in any event, allow for 20% over-working-voltage rating, re-form slowly via Variac, and test before installing. ladewd wrote: Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? They may have thrown away all the APR parts, but if this cap was used in another product, it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #644 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri May 6, 2005 9:29 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ladewd Offline Send Email Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1- 125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #645 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri May 6, 2005 11:40 am Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS allegrosound Offline Send Email what is the DateCode on these caps? ladewd wrote: Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #646 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri May 6, 2005 11:51 am Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email He isn't going to know until he has the new ones in his hands I think. In any case, it isn't likely to be as old as what is in most people's machines already. Lastly, Cary makes a good point... these may well have been used in other product. Sony had a habit of that for obvious reasons, and so a fairly recent date code is possible. Regardless, if the choice is only between a non-functional APR and one with slightly more hum, well..? I agree with Rick on purely technical grounds about the caps, BUT if a very recent alternative is not available.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:40 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS what is the DateCode on these caps? ladewd wrote: Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #647 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri May 6, 2005 1:07 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS bae_steve Offline Send Email We get machines an boards that have been stored in barns for 20 years, and the power supply caps are just fine. "Shelf life" is a reference, not a law. IMO, SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:51:24 -0500 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS He isn't going to know until he has the new ones in his hands I think. In any case, it isn't likely to be as old as what is in most people's machines already. Lastly, Cary makes a good point... these may well have been used in other product. Sony had a habit of that for obvious reasons, and so a fairly recent date code is possible. Regardless, if the choice is only between a non-functional APR and one with slightly more hum, well..? I agree with Rick on purely technical grounds about the caps, BUT if a very recent alternative is not available.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:40 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS what is the DateCode on these caps? ladewd wrote: Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #648 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri May 6, 2005 3:42 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS allegrosound Offline Send Email I have a pr of 50-yr-old Mac MC-30's that are all-original [except the tubes], and they still sound great, thanks to the slow ramp-up of B+ provided by a tube rectifier (or a Variac in its place); this, unfortunately, be the exception rather than the rule. Since caps are a mere pittance compared to the labor to put them in, it would be prudent [IMO] to use the earliest DateCode available. I recommend to my clients that want optimum performance, rather than mimimum, to change out all the electrolytic caps (and tubes) before they go bad and damage other components. If one cares to know the actual condition of a cap, one tests it for Z, L, C, DCR, ESR, D, Q, Ø; BK Precision makes a nifty instrument to do this in-circuit. mcijh@... wrote: We get machines an boards that have been stored in barns for 20 years, and the power supply caps are just fine. "Shelf life" is a reference, not a law. IMO, SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:51:24 -0500 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS He isn't going to know until he has the new ones in his hands I think. In any case, it isn't likely to be as old as what is in most people's machines already. Lastly, Cary makes a good point... these may well have been used in other product. Sony had a habit of that for obvious reasons, and so a fairly recent date code is possible. Regardless, if the choice is only between a non-functional APR and one with slightly more hum, well..? I agree with Rick on purely technical grounds about the caps, BUT if a very recent alternative is not available.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:40 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS what is the DateCode on these caps? ladewd wrote: Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #649 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri May 6, 2005 6:15 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The B&K is handy I admit, I have one myself. Everyone likely agrees about the date code if one has a choice. Unless someone here has another suggestion though, he may not have any choice at all. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 2:43 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS I have a pr of 50-yr-old Mac MC-30's that are all-original [except the tubes], and they still sound great, thanks to the slow ramp-up of B+ provided by a tube rectifier (or a Variac in its place); this, unfortunately, be the exception rather than the rule. Since caps are a mere pittance compared to the labor to put them in, it would be prudent [IMO] to use the earliest DateCode available. I recommend to my clients that want optimum performance, rather than mimimum, to change out all the electrolytic caps (and tubes) before they go bad and damage other components. If one cares to know the actual condition of a cap, one tests it for Z, L, C, DCR, ESR, D, Q, Ø; BK Precision makes a nifty instrument to do this in-circuit. mcijh@... wrote: We get machines an boards that have been stored in barns for 20 years, and the power supply caps are just fine. "Shelf life" is a reference, not a law. IMO, SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:51:24 -0500 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS He isn't going to know until he has the new ones in his hands I think. In any case, it isn't likely to be as old as what is in most people's machines already. Lastly, Cary makes a good point... these may well have been used in other product. Sony had a habit of that for obvious reasons, and so a fairly recent date code is possible. Regardless, if the choice is only between a non-functional APR and one with slightly more hum, well..? I agree with Rick on purely technical grounds about the caps, BUT if a very recent alternative is not available.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:40 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS what is the DateCode on these caps? ladewd wrote: Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ElectrolyticBlues: > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > this aging process accelerates > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > they'd be too old to bother using; > check the DateCode, > even when ordering "new"; > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > in any event, allow for 20% > over-working-voltage rating, > re-form slowly via Variac, > and test before installing. > > ladewd wrote: > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > but if this cap was used in another product, > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1-125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #650 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri May 6, 2005 6:42 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS ladewd Offline Send Email Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > I have a pr of 50-yr-old > Mac MC-30's that are > all-original [except the tubes], > and they still sound great, > thanks to the slow ramp-up of > B+ provided by a tube rectifier > (or a Variac in its place); this, > unfortunately, be the exception > rather than the rule. > Since caps are a mere pittance > compared to the labor to put them > in, it would be prudent [IMO] to use > the earliest DateCode available. > I recommend to my clients > that want optimum performance, > rather than mimimum, to change > out all the electrolytic caps > (and tubes) before they go bad > and damage other components. > If one cares to know the actual > condition of a cap, one tests it > for Z, L, C, DCR, ESR, D, Q, Ø; > BK Precision makes a nifty > instrument to do this in-circuit. > > > mcijh@a... wrote: > We get machines an boards that have been stored in barns for 20 years, and the power supply caps are just fine. "Shelf life" is a reference, not a law. > > IMO, SS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Phillips > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:51:24 -0500 > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS > > .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; }.AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt;}.AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px;}.AOLAttachmentHeader { border-bottom: 2px solid #E9EAEB; background: #F9F9F9;}.AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px Tahoma; font- weight: bold; color: #666666; background: #E9EAEB; padding: 3px 0px 1px 10px;}.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px Tahoma; font-weight: bold; color: #666666; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px;}.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px Tahoma; color: #333333;}He isn't going to know until he has the new ones in his hands I think. In any case, it isn't likely to be as old as what is in most people's machines already. Lastly, Cary makes a good point... these may well have been used in other product. Sony had a habit of that for obvious reasons, and so a fairly recent date code is > possible. Regardless, if the choice is only between a non- functional APR and one with slightly more hum, well..? > > I agree with Rick on purely technical grounds about the caps, BUT if a very recent alternative is not available.... > > > > > --------------------------------- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@A... > Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:40 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS > > > > what is the DateCode > on these caps? > > > ladewd wrote: > Oh Brother! Here we go again. Thanks for your input Rick. I'd still check with Sony about those caps. I've had success using NOS FP multistage caps that were more than 10 years old, so I say go for it. Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > ElectrolyticBlues: > > electrolytic caps dry out and go bad; > > this aging process accelerates > > when un-biased ("use it or lose it"); > > if Sony has any left on the shelf, > > they'd be too old to bother using; > > check the DateCode, > > even when ordering "new"; > > 'lytics over 10yrs old are suspect; > > in any event, allow for 20% > > over-working-voltage rating, > > re-form slowly via Variac, > > and test before installing. > > > > ladewd wrote: > > Ted, It may be a long shot but have tried Sony? > > They may have thrown away all the APR parts, > > but if this cap was used in another product, > > it may still be available. The Sony part number for the cap is 1- 125-455-11. Just a thought. Cary > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Discover Yahoo! > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #651 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri May 6, 2005 7:21 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003 PSU & CAN CAPS allegrosound Offline Send Email every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? when there's no obvious choice, I invent one. In any event, I plan to outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise precludes leaving it on for best sound and reliability; when I do, I'll let you know what caps I'm able to retrofit. ladewd wrote: Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #652 From: twjolly@... Date: Fri May 6, 2005 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Replacement found: APR-5003 PSU CAN CAP.... twjjolly Offline Send Email Hi Group, I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in the APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT pervectly....including the 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. Available from http://www.mouser.com Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP About $30 a pop. The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in my power supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. Link: http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 5/6/2005 4:23:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rick@... writes: every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? when there's no obvious choice, I invent one. In any event, I plan to outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise precludes leaving it on for best sound and reliability; when I do, I'll let you know what caps I'm able to retrofit. ladewd wrote: Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? when there's no obvious choice, I invent one. In any event, I plan to outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise precludes leaving it on for best sound and reliability; when I do, I'll let you know what caps I'm able to retrofit. ladewd wrote: Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #653 From: "Rick@..." Date: Fri May 6, 2005 11:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacement found: APR-5003 PSU CAN CAP.... allegrosound Offline Send Email thanx for the tip, Ted. Rick@... twjolly@... wrote: Hi Group, I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in the APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT pervectly....including the 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. Available from http://www.mouser.com Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP About $30 a pop. The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in my power supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. Link: http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 5/6/2005 4:23:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Rick@... writes: every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? when there's no obvious choice, I invent one. In any event, I plan to outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise precludes leaving it on for best sound and reliability; when I do, I'll let you know what caps I'm able to retrofit. ladewd wrote: Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #654 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 7, 2005 4:04 pm Subject: Re: Replacement found: APR-5003 PSU CAN CAP.... ladewd Offline Send Email Cool, now you'll be in business. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in the > APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) > > The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT pervectly....including the > 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. > > Available from _http://www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) > Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP > The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP > > About $30 a pop. > > The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in my power > supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: > > Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. > > Link: > _http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM_ > (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM) > > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly > > In a message dated 5/6/2005 4:23:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Rick@A... writes: > > every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? > when there's no obvious choice, > I invent one. In any event, I plan to > outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise > precludes leaving it on for best sound > and reliability; when I do, I'll let you > know what caps I'm able to retrofit. > > ladewd wrote: > > Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, > if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding > a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and > space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the > original part if possible. Cary > > > ____________________________________ > > > > > > > every try rebuilding a tube mic & ps? > when there's no obvious choice, > I invent one. In any event, I plan to > outboard my APR ps, as the fan noise > precludes leaving it on for best sound > and reliability; when I do, I'll let you > know what caps I'm able to retrofit. > > ladewd wrote: > Rick, I agree with you 100% about older caps. But as Scott stated before me, if its all you can get, you don't have much of a choice. Ordinarily finding a suitable replacement wouldn't be a problem, but there are mounting and space constraints in the power supply, so the easiest thing to do is to get the original part if possible. Cary > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #655 From: twjolly@... Date: Sat May 7, 2005 6:03 pm Subject: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. twjjolly Offline Send Email Yep, up an runnin now! Now...looking for an EXTENDER BOARD for the APR-5003..... I have had this APR-5003 for some time, but set it aside during the rebuild of our console and 24 track. Now it's time to finish working on the 5003. So....if anyone has an extra extender board for the APR-5003, please let me know and how much you want for it and we'll do a deal. Thanks, Ted Jolly In a message dated 5/7/2005 1:06:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Cool, now you'll be in business. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in the > APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) > > The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT pervectly....including the > 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. > > Available from _http://www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) > Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP > The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP > > About $30 a pop. > > The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in my power > supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: > > Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. > > Link: > _http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM_ > (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM) > > > Regards, > > Ted Jolly Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #656 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 9, 2005 11:21 am Subject: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. ladewd Offline Send Email Ted, I think I have a few out in the garage. Let me check and get back with you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > Yep, up an runnin now! > > Now...looking for an EXTENDER BOARD for the APR-5003..... > > I have had this APR-5003 for some time, but set it aside during the rebuild > of our console and 24 track. Now it's time to finish working on the 5003. > > So....if anyone has an extra extender board for the APR-5003, please let me > know and how much you want for it and we'll do a deal. > > Thanks, > > Ted Jolly > > In a message dated 5/7/2005 1:06:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Cool, now you'll be in business. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > Hi Group, > > > > I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in > the > > APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) > > > > The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT > pervectly....including the > > 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. > > > > Available from _http://www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) > > Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP > > The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP > > > > About $30 a pop. > > > > The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in > my power > > supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: > > > > Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. > > > > Link: > > _http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? > listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM_ > > (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? > listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM) > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted Jolly Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #657 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon May 9, 2005 11:33 am Subject: Re: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. allegrosound Offline Send Email Cary, please advise if you find an extra extender-board that I can purchase after Ted. I'm also in need of the cover that sits atop the head-assembly. Best regards, Rick@... ladewd wrote: Ted, I think I have a few out in the garage. Let me check and get back with you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, > twjolly@a... wrote: > > Yep, up an runnin now! > > Now...looking for an EXTENDER BOARD for the APR-5003..... > > I have had this APR-5003 for some time, > but set it aside during the rebuild > of our console and 24 track. > Now it's time to finish working on the 5003. > > So....if anyone has an extra extender board > for the APR-5003, please let me know and > how much you want for it and we'll do a deal. > > Thanks, Ted Jolly Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #658 From: twjolly@... Date: Mon May 9, 2005 4:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. twjjolly Offline Send Email Thanks Carey...let me know. Regards, Ted JollyI n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Ted, I think I have a few out in the garage. Let me check and get back with you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > Yep, up an runnin now! > > Now...looking for an EXTENDER BOARD for the APR-5003..... > > I have had this APR-5003 for some time, but set it aside during the rebuild > of our console and 24 track. Now it's time to finish working on the 5003. > > So....if anyone has an extra extender board for the APR-5003, please let me > know and how much you want for it and we'll do a deal. > > Thanks, > > Ted Jolly > > In a message dated 5/7/2005 1:06:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Cool, now you'll be in business. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, twjolly@a... wrote: > > > > Hi Group, > > > > I have found a good replacement for the two large Elna can caps in > the > > APR-5003 power supply (Sony original part number 1-125-455-10) > > > > The replacement is 22,000 ufd / 63 V and FIT > pervectly....including the > > 'high' screw terminals / 2" width and 3" length. > > > > Available from _http://www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) > > Vishay/Sprague part # U36D63LG223M51X67HP > > The Mouser part number is: 661-U36D63LG223MHP > > > > About $30 a pop. > > > > The Galco 60 mm 24 V fan is MUCH quieter than the original fan in > my power > > supply! Here's the Galco part number and link: > > > > Part Number: 614NGL - EBM FAN, EBM $17.36 each / $50 min order. > > > > Link: > > _http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? > listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM_ > > (http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/WA/wcat/itemdtl.r? > listtype=Catalog&pnum=614NGL-EBM) > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted Jolly ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #659 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon May 9, 2005 9:44 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. allegrosound Offline Send Email ditto. Rick@... twjolly@... wrote: Thanks Carey...let me know. Regards, Ted JollyI n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Ted,I think I have a few out in the garage. Let me check and get back with you. Cary Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #660 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue May 10, 2005 11:38 am Subject: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. ladewd Offline Send Email Rick, I was only able to find 1 extra extender board. If I run across any more (and its entirely possible that I will), I'll let you know. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ditto. > Rick@A... > > twjolly@a... wrote: > Thanks Carey...let me know. > Regards, Ted JollyI > > n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@y... writes: > Ted,I think I have a few out > in the garage. Let me check > and get back with you. Cary > > > --------------------------------- > Discover Yahoo! > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #661 From: "Rick@..." Date: Tue May 10, 2005 12:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. allegrosound Offline Send Email thank you, Cary; much appreciated. Do have spare headstacks &/or hs covers ? ladewd wrote: Rick, I was only able to find 1 extra extender board. If I run across any more (and its entirely possible that I will), I'll let you know. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > ditto. > Rick@A... > > twjolly@a... wrote: > Thanks Carey...let me know. > Regards, Ted JollyI > > n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@y... writes: > Ted,I think I have a few out > in the garage. Let me check > and get back with you. Cary Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #662 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 14, 2005 11:12 am Subject: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. ladewd Offline Send Email Sorry, I don't have any headstack covers, and the few headstacks I have I'm going to keep for my personal use. I do however have some individual heads lying around. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > thank you, Cary; > much appreciated. > Do have spare headstacks > &/or hs covers ? > > > ladewd wrote: > Rick, I was only able to find > 1 extra extender board. > If I run across any more > (and its entirely possible that I will), > I'll let you know. Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > ditto. > > Rick@A... > > > > twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Carey...let me know. > > Regards, Ted JollyI > > > > n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted,I think I have a few out > > in the garage. Let me check > > and get back with you. Cary > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #663 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat May 14, 2005 8:33 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. bae_steve Offline Send Email How much did the extender card go for, Dewd? SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 14 May 2005 15:12:36 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. Sorry, I don't have any headstack covers, and the few headstacks I have I'm going to keep for my personal use. I do however have some individual heads lying around. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > thank you, Cary; > much appreciated. > Do have spare headstacks > &/or hs covers ? > > > ladewd wrote: > Rick, I was only able to find > 1 extra extender board. > If I run across any more > (and its entirely possible that I will), > I'll let you know. Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > ditto. > > Rick@A... > > > > twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Carey...let me know. > > Regards, Ted JollyI > > > > n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted,I think I have a few out > > in the garage. Let me check > > and get back with you. Cary > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #664 From: "treenbryan" Date: Wed May 18, 2005 3:27 pm Subject: APR-24 timecode glitch treenbryan Offline Send Email When I start up my APR-24 it ends up with "24 TC" on the meter bridge. I checked with the seller and it appears the machine probably was used as a slave to another recorder. I don't have the original tape with timecode on it. Also, the machine was in my storage for a considerable period of time so I'm having no luck getting info from the seller (company sold, engineers gone, etc.) The transport seems to work fine but the remote is non-functional so I can't arm any tracks. I'm guessing that this is due to the machine being in 'slave' mode. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Also, is it possible to slave the APR-24 to my Radar recorder, but how would I control it without the APR-24 remote being functional. Or, is the remote the problem? Thanks in advance. Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #665 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu May 19, 2005 2:06 am Subject: Re: APR-24 timecode glitch bae_steve Offline Send Email Trk. 24 is assigned as the time code channel. Recall 42, Enter 00, Store = no time code channel assigned. As far as your remote not working, you need to connect it to the right terminal, or call in a qualified tech. SS -----Original Message----- From: treenbryan To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 18 May 2005 19:27:35 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] APR-24 timecode glitch When I start up my APR-24 it ends up with "24 TC" on the meter bridge. I checked with the seller and it appears the machine probably was used as a slave to another recorder. I don't have the original tape with timecode on it. Also, the machine was in my storage for a considerable period of time so I'm having no luck getting info from the seller (company sold, engineers gone, etc.) The transport seems to work fine but the remote is non-functional so I can't arm any tracks. I'm guessing that this is due to the machine being in 'slave' mode. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Also, is it possible to slave the APR-24 to my Radar recorder, but how would I control it without the APR-24 remote being functional. Or, is the remote the problem? Thanks in advance. Bryan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #666 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 19, 2005 1:05 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 timecode glitch ladewd Offline Send Email THe APR24 lets you assign any channel as a TC channel. There are 2 ways to do this. Either on the remote or the machine. If you want to clear it, you can press the "ALL" switch on the Alignment drawer then press the TC switch in the lower left hand corner of the panel. If you want to assign a different channel, make sure that channel is displayed on the LED display on the meter bridge, then press the TC button. On the remote you can do RCL > 42. This will display the TC channel. You can clear it out from there by pressing CLR, STO, 42. If you choose, you can enter another track for TC and store it location 42. Hope this is clear. Now some questions regarding the remote. Does it display the tape time and locate time? There are Network/Local switches on the front of the deck. Local should be on. The machine will usually not power up in Network mode. You may have a problem with your remote. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "treenbryan" wrote: > When I start up my APR-24 it ends up with "24 TC" on the meter > bridge. I checked with the seller and it appears the machine > probably > was used as a slave to another recorder. I don't have the original > tape with timecode on it. Also, the machine was in my storage for a > considerable period of time so I'm having no luck getting info from > the > seller (company sold, engineers gone, etc.) > > The transport seems to work fine but the remote is non-functional so > I can't arm any tracks. I'm guessing that this is due to the machine > being in 'slave' mode. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Also, is it > possible to slave the APR-24 to my Radar recorder, but how would I > control it without the APR-24 remote being functional. Or, is the > remote the problem? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #667 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 19, 2005 1:13 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 timecode glitch ladewd Offline Send Email Oh yeah, one other thing, if you can't arm tracks from the remote, go to memory location 44 and store a 0 in it. Then go to 45 and store a 0 in it. It may be set up for external rec ready and sync/repro switching. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "treenbryan" wrote: > When I start up my APR-24 it ends up with "24 TC" on the meter > bridge. I checked with the seller and it appears the machine > probably > was used as a slave to another recorder. I don't have the original > tape with timecode on it. Also, the machine was in my storage for a > considerable period of time so I'm having no luck getting info from > the > seller (company sold, engineers gone, etc.) > > The transport seems to work fine but the remote is non-functional so > I can't arm any tracks. I'm guessing that this is due to the machine > being in 'slave' mode. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Also, is it > possible to slave the APR-24 to my Radar recorder, but how would I > control it without the APR-24 remote being functional. Or, is the > remote the problem? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #668 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 19, 2005 1:23 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 timecode glitch ladewd Offline Send Email Talking out of my ass again. The machine should power up with both Network and Local switches lit on the control panel of the deck. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "treenbryan" wrote: > When I start up my APR-24 it ends up with "24 TC" on the meter > bridge. I checked with the seller and it appears the machine > probably > was used as a slave to another recorder. I don't have the original > tape with timecode on it. Also, the machine was in my storage for a > considerable period of time so I'm having no luck getting info from > the > seller (company sold, engineers gone, etc.) > > The transport seems to work fine but the remote is non-functional so > I can't arm any tracks. I'm guessing that this is due to the machine > being in 'slave' mode. Any ideas on how to remedy this? Also, is it > possible to slave the APR-24 to my Radar recorder, but how would I > control it without the APR-24 remote being functional. Or, is the > remote the problem? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bryan Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #669 From: "bae_steve" Date: Sat May 21, 2005 1:41 pm Subject: Re: WTB APR-5003 Extender Board.. bae_steve Offline Send Email Rick, et.al., I think I have a couple of extenders I can let go. Send me a shipping address to mcijh@.... Scott, Cary told me to give you a free one. Send me your address. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > Rick, I was only able to find 1 extra extender board. If I run > across any more (and its entirely possible that I will), I'll let > you know. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Rick@A..." wrote: > > ditto. > > Rick@A... > > > > twjolly@a... wrote: > > Thanks Carey...let me know. > > Regards, Ted JollyI > > > > n a message dated 5/9/2005 8:25:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ladewd@y... writes: > > Ted,I think I have a few out > > in the garage. Let me check > > and get back with you. Cary > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Discover Yahoo! > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it > out! Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #670 From: Matthew Laube Date: Thu May 26, 2005 5:05 pm Subject: Ampex(mincom) TU 40 flutter meter reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email -Hello: Any one have any documents on the Ampex TU 40 flutter meter? Thanks! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #671 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 5:30 pm Subject: OT: DBX 411 info needed richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Anyone got manuals/info on dbx 411 modules that fit the 900 frame? How are the A/B/C/D interfaces assigned? Yes, I can figure it out, but if someone knows, that would make it "fer sur" Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #672 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 6:03 pm Subject: RE: OT: DBX 411 info needed ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email It'll be this weekend, but I think I can access those documents, or at least the 900 frame Docs..... I can scan them and email them to you offline, Richard. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:31 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] OT: DBX 411 info needed Hi, Anyone got manuals/info on dbx 411 modules that fit the 900 frame? How are the A/B/C/D interfaces assigned? Yes, I can figure it out, but if someone knows, that would make it "fer sur" Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #673 From: Jim Date: Fri May 27, 2005 12:36 pm Subject: Re: OT: DBX 411 info needed analogb@... Send Email Richard, I don't have specific 411 info, but in general the 900 frame connections are: A top = signal + in A bottom = signal - in B top = signal + out B bottom = signal - out C+/- and D+/- are used as ins/outs for inserts side chains, etc. depending on the module type. Hope this helps. Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com At 05:30 PM 5/26/2005, you wrote: >Hi, > >Anyone got manuals/info on dbx 411 modules that fit the 900 frame? > >How are the A/B/C/D interfaces assigned? Yes, I can figure it out, but if >someone knows, that would make it "fer sur" > >Thanks! > >Richard > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Vignettes >Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #674 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 27, 2005 12:44 pm Subject: Re: OT: DBX 411 info needed richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Jim, These appear to be simultaneous record/play processors, so perhaps A/B is record I/O and C/D is play I/O? At 12:36 PM 5/27/2005, you wrote: > Richard, > > I don't have specific 411 info, but in general the 900 frame > connections are: > >A top = signal + in >A bottom = signal - in > >B top = signal + out >B bottom = signal - out > >C+/- and D+/- are used as ins/outs for inserts side chains, etc. >depending on the module type. > > Hope this helps. > > >Regards, Jim >www.analogbros.com > > >At 05:30 PM 5/26/2005, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Anyone got manuals/info on dbx 411 modules that fit the 900 frame? > > > >How are the A/B/C/D interfaces assigned? Yes, I can figure it out, but if > >someone knows, that would make it "fer sur" > > > >Thanks! > > > >Richard > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Vignettes > >Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #675 From: Jim Date: Fri May 27, 2005 6:37 pm Subject: Re: OT: DBX 411 info needed analogb@... Send Email Richard, Just a guess looking at some of the other modules; it may be A/B record side I/O then C/D play side I/O (or visa versa). Seems that A/B are always I/O regardless of module type. Good luck. Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com At 12:44 PM 5/27/2005, you wrote: >Thanks, Jim, > >These appear to be simultaneous record/play processors, so perhaps A/B is >record I/O and C/D is play I/O? > >At 12:36 PM 5/27/2005, you wrote: > > > Richard, > > > > I don't have specific 411 info, but in general the 900 frame > > connections are: > > > >A top = signal + in > >A bottom = signal - in > > > >B top = signal + out > >B bottom = signal - out > > > >C+/- and D+/- are used as ins/outs for inserts side chains, etc. > >depending on the module type. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > >Regards, Jim > >www.analogbros.com > > > > > >At 05:30 PM 5/26/2005, you wrote: > > >Hi, > > > > > >Anyone got manuals/info on dbx 411 modules that fit the 900 frame? > > > > > >How are the A/B/C/D interfaces assigned? Yes, I can figure it out, but if > > >someone knows, that would make it "fer sur" > > > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Richard > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > >Vignettes > > >Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Vignettes >Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #676 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 27, 2005 8:28 pm Subject: Re: OT: DBX 411 info needed richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks! At 06:37 PM 5/27/2005, you wrote: > Richard, > > Just a guess looking at some of the other modules; it may be A/B record >side I/O then C/D play side I/O (or visa versa). Seems that A/B are always >I/O regardless of module type. Good luck. > >Regards, Jim >www.analogbros.com Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #677 From: MICHAEL WILLIAMSON Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:10 pm Subject: Photos Last price michael247342 Offline Send Email Hi everyone I am new to the list (I didn't guess there was one} Stupid really when i have been looking at rhe Studer list for years. As well as my studers I have an APR 5003V. With meter bridge TC etc Had should maybe the operative word as the builders collapsed a Floor/ceiling on it. It is in a pretty poorly state. Sony do not seem to want to know about repair . Anyone out there got any Photos / Brochure on this model? that I could download Anything like this published on your website? If so I was not able to find any leads to section Does anyone know the last price these were sold at, preferably in uk. What new machine could replace it with, and the price? I have a big tape archive and transfer?telecine older films and soundtracks. Or know any Uk repairers?restorers? Thats hoping that the builders were insured!!! Best Regards, Mike Williamson Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #678 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:25 pm Subject: Re: Photos Last price richardlhess Offline Send Email Good APRs are seen from time to time on eBay. I think one even went by from the UK. For a start, you can find the manual at http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: 5003v The new sales price about 1992 or so was around $12,000 US -- at least that's what I recall. Unfortunately for insurance claims, most go on eBay for under $1000 US. It's a robust machine, but I'm not sure how well it would stand up to a floor/ceiling falling on it. It depends what actually hit it as floors/ceilings are not monolithic. My big fear is that an old big oak timber came crashing down and messed up the alignment. If you can, grab the head assembly from the carcass...just three screws and it's off. A good-condition 5003V head assembly is hard to find. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7518166062 here is the link to one that sold in West Sussex for 410 pounds. It looks like a good machine. Ones in this condition are rare. What I would tell the builder is I want one in this condition. Go find it and deliver it to me. Then offer him 50 quid for the carcass that they destroyed. I would snag those pix if possible, plus I have some on my Website http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ -- I'll be modifying the facilities page soon. Sorry about the mess. All the best, Richard At 03:10 PM 6/10/2005, you wrote: Hi everyone I am new to the list (I didn't guess there was one} Stupid really when i have been looking at rhe Studer list for years. As well as my studers I have an APR 5003V. With meter bridge TC etc Had should maybe the operative word as the builders collapsed a Floor/ceiling on it. It is in a pretty poorly state. Sony do not seem to want to know about repair . Anyone out there got any Photos / Brochure on this model? that I could download Anything like this published on your website? If so I was not able to find any leads to section Does anyone know the last price these were sold at, preferably in uk. What new machine could replace it with, and the price? I have a big tape archive and transfer?telecine older films and soundtracks. Or know any Uk repairers?restorers? Thats hoping that the builders were insured!!! Best Regards, Mike Williamson Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #679 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:39 pm Subject: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, I know many of you have heard me talk about building a new studio over the last few months. I have now posted some pictures on my Web site: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm We are now getting down to the backlog! Thanks for the opportunities! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #680 From: twjolly@... Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:05 pm Subject: Re: My new "studio" twjjolly Offline Send Email SUPER JOB RICHARD! Very nice work indeed! Did you do the design yourself? What software are you running? Thanks for sharing the pics! I love it! Regards, Ted Jolly GRS In a message dated 6/10/2005 8:41:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, arclists@... writes: Hello, I know many of you have heard me talk about building a new studio over the last few months. I have now posted some pictures on my Web site: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm We are now getting down to the backlog! Thanks for the opportunities! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #681 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:13 am Subject: Re: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ted, I'm running Samplitude, Algorithmix plug-ins, and Diamond Cut Live/Forensics. Yes, I designed it myself--with input from an acoustician friend and Wolfgang the handyman who helped me build it provided lots of great suggestions as we ran into "how do we solve this detail" issues. Thanks for the kind words. Cheers, Richard At 12:05 AM 6/11/2005, you wrote: > >SUPER JOB RICHARD! > >Very nice work indeed! Did you do the design yourself? What software are >you running? > >Thanks for sharing the pics! I love it! > >Regards, > >Ted Jolly >GRS > > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #682 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:28 am Subject: Re: My new "studio" eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hey Richard! Congrats on pulling it all together. Can you tell us a little about your room - bass traps or not? Alternate absorptive / reflective? Dimensions? thanks in advance, ec At 11:13 PM 6/10/2005, you wrote: Hi, Ted, I'm running Samplitude, Algorithmix plug-ins, and Diamond Cut Live/Forensics. Yes, I designed it myself--with input from an acoustician friend and Wolfgang the handyman who helped me build it provided lots of great suggestions as we ran into "how do we solve this detail" issues. Thanks for the kind words. Cheers, Richard At 12:05 AM 6/11/2005, you wrote: > >SUPER JOB RICHARD! > >Very nice work indeed! Did you do the design yourself? What software are >you running? > >Thanks for sharing the pics! I love it! > >Regards, > >Ted Jolly >GRS > > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #683 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:31 am Subject: Re: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, Sure...a bit of info: The width dropped to about 10'3" and the length is about 14' at its longest. Most of the room has 2x6 plates with 2x4 studs built inside the existing drywall. The door is a 2x4 frame. The entire rear wall and the front wall has cavities filled with mineral wool (higher density than fiberglas). The bare room was a 45 degree trapezoid. We changed that to 30 degrees and got the centre speaker shelf depth out of it. The space below the left and right speakers and the entire vertical space between left and right speakers and their respective walls are filled. This acts as a bass trap. The columns on either side of the centre speaker are all filled with mineral wool. Remember, the walls are muslin fabric stretched over 1x2 oak frames. So you're "hearing" the mineral wool. At the worksurface, there is no mineral wool either above or below the chair rail. On the tape recorder side, there is mineral wool below the chair rail. There is some mineral wool inside the cabinet with the shelves. We tried to create balance. The flooring is cushioned carpet tile (recycled from a bank, hence the ahem, green, colour) - we ran that throughout the storeroom and workshop as well. We didn't really have room for alternate absorptive/reflective, but hope we got some of that with the above-described collection. I really didn't want to have the jackfield reflective at my right ear and have a pillow factory at my left. The space below the surround speakers is absorptive. So we have some alternate stuff there, but any "bay" that was alternated left/right I felt would offer too much difference. I really really liked the sound in stereo when I first turned it on. There was a little bass boominess in the centre channel, and that was tamed about 80% with placing the concrete on either side of the speaker. The other 20% is what it is. You only notice it in A/Bing between a phantom centre channel and the centre speaker. I might try some absorption under the centre speaker, I'm not sure. Cheers, Richard Oh, and the 7 rows of 2x24 jacks are all full At 07:28 AM 6/11/2005, you wrote: >Hey Richard! > >Congrats on pulling it all together. > >Can you tell us a little about your room - bass traps or not? Alternate >absorptive / reflective? Dimensions? > >thanks in advance, > >ec Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #684 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:59 pm Subject: Re: My new "studio" alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Many thanks for posting the pics of your new facility Richard. I've been eagerly looking forward to them. Very impressive, and I should think, a far nicer working environment than at your previous home. Looks as if all your hard work has paid off :-) Although I don't post often I do read every message. Many thanks for keeping this group going Richard. I hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of posting a photo of my 'facility' into the group photo pages. Not that it can compare in any way shapoe or form to yours of course! best wishes to all, Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #685 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:11 pm Subject: Re: Re: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Alison, Thanks for the kind words! Many thanks for posting your picture to the group--it looks like you've made great use of space. You do have a lot of equipment packed in there. What is it all? What do you do with it? You're in the U.K., right? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #686 From: "Alison Kristina Hinckley" Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:13 pm Subject: Re: Photos Last price alisonhinckley Offline Send Email Hello Mike and I'm so sorry to hear that the builders have squashed your apr. Yes, I hope they are insured! I hope Richard doesn't mind but I've taken the liberty of posting on the group photo pages a section of an old brochure page from HHB (Scrubs lane, London)showing the apr with specs. I'm not sure of the year, sorry. The price then was £8,650 apparently! (don't quote me on it though. Try contacting HHB, they'll know. They also might be able to repair it for you if it doesn't need too many parts. They have some excellent repair facilities). I do hope you can get your machine sorted (or maybe a replacement. I purchased my 5003, ex BBC Northern Ireland, from eBay last year for the give away price of £140. Amazing considering the excellent condition it's in). best wishes, Alison. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #687 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:33 pm Subject: Re: My new "studio" paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Congratulations on completing the new studio, Richard! Wow, exciting, what a project! It looks like a great space. What kind of space was this when you started? Is this a converted basement? I believe you said you used 2x6 plates - did you then stagger 2x4s for soundproofing? If so, how has this worked out? Any other soundproofing measures taken, apart from the mineral wool? How about the ceiling? Approximately how long has the whole project taken? Any advice for others wanting to build such a space? Anything you might approach differently? Thanks much and great job! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hello, > > I know many of you have heard me talk about building a new studio over the > last few months. I have now posted some pictures on my Web site: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm > > We are now getting down to the backlog! > > Thanks for the opportunities! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #688 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:33 PM 6/13/2005, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Congratulations on completing the new studio, Richard! Wow, >exciting, what a project! It looks like a great space. It's working well >What kind of space was this when you started? Is this a converted >basement? It's in the basement. It was originally finished w/o a door but with 1/2" drywall on 2x4 studs (both sides in most instances. The existing walls were packed with fiberglas as the original owner had wanted to use it as a music practice room. It was rough with several generations of shelves on the walls and the remnants of the carpet tile from the office almost covering the floor and a rough door into the office and an unfinished opening into the workshop (where the shelves/APR16 are now). >I believe you said you used 2x6 plates - did you then stagger 2x4s >for soundproofing? If so, how has this worked out? It's worked out well, but I used 2x6 plates so I had a 5.5" cavity for absorption where I needed it. I did not stagger studs as the 2x6 plate/2x4 stud structure supports little drywall. Just the soffit and near the door. I also wanted the 2" space between the rear of the studs and the existing drywall for cable access. There are no cables on the floor. The cables go overhead to the shelves and drop down to an improvised series of cable hooks under the worksurface (rear). The tape machines are fed through the chair rail which is a 1x6 and a 1x2 strip. The strips are separated by an opening which is covered with black plastic glue-on baseboard. This pushes in and allows cables to drop through into the 2" space behind the studs. The oak for the chair rail (tape recorder rail?) is out on 1/2" plywood so it extends beyond the fabric wrapped panels which are built on 1x2s. The chair rail was to protect the fabric wrapped panels from tape machine penetration and also ended up being the divide between white and black fabric. >Any other >soundproofing measures taken, apart from the mineral wool? We added Masonite double doors to finish the "door room" outside the studio and to separate studio access from the furnace room. The studio door is a 2x4 structure with 3/4" plywood. It's oversized for the opening in the existing wall and is hinged to the 2x6 studs (yes we used 2x6s at the openings). This way there is some labyrinth which could have weatherstrip added, but it's not a source of noise--it's about equal to the ducts, the Dell 8300 quiet fans (2 8300 Dells) and the leakage from the transformer in the workshop and the speaker amp noise. >How >about the ceiling? The ceiling is existing. Dry wall and shot-on "cottage cheese" -- we did not paint it as that reduces the effectiveness of the diffusion of the ceiling. >Approximately how long has the whole project taken? Too long. We started in January. I had projects to do and Wolfgang had a vacation scheduled, I did a trip, oh it goes on and on. It was very fussy work with lots of skills needed. Oh, I rearranged much of the data storage during that time, planned the whole thing, got the electrical inspected... >Any advice for others wanting to build such a space? Allow lots of time and money. It probably ended up costing over $20K. I'm not sure I want to know. 548 hours of the handyman -- and he tooled when he was working. I never once found him slacking off. >Anything you >might approach differently? Mounting the transformer directly to the foundation rather than the wood structure. I think I would use 1x6 and 1x4 boards for the worksurface rather than the veneer oak particle board. Making the work surface a bit more "butcher blocky" but I'm not 100% happy with the oak veneer particle board. Use two 2x6 for the mid and rear cross rails for the work surface. It's a little springy for the turntable, but otherwise just fine. Cheers, Richard >Thanks much and great job! > >Paul > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" >wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I know many of you have heard me talk about building a new studio >over the > > last few months. I have now posted some pictures on my Web site: > > > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm > > > > We are now getting down to the backlog! > > > > Thanks for the opportunities! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > > Vignettes > > Media web: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- >FIX > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #689 From: toro 3SM/IARM Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: My new "studio" toro3stream Offline Send Email If I may ask, What is the primary purpose for the studio? Are you mainly data transfer or recording? What type of data/music? -mm At 01:33 PM 6/13/2005, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Congratulations on completing the new studio, Richard! Wow, >exciting, what a project! It looks like a great space. It's working well >What kind of space was this when you started? Is this a converted >basement? It's in the basement. It was originally finished w/o a door but with 1/2" drywall on 2x4 studs (both sides in most instances. The existing walls were packed with fiberglas as the original owner had wanted to use it as a music practice room. It was rough with several generations of shelves on the walls and the remnants of the carpet tile from the office almost covering the floor and a rough door into the office and an unfinished opening into the workshop (where the shelves/APR16 are now). >I believe you said you used 2x6 plates - did you then stagger 2x4s >for soundproofing? If so, how has this worked out? It's worked out well, but I used 2x6 plates so I had a 5.5" cavity for absorption where I needed it. I did not stagger studs as the 2x6 plate/2x4 stud structure supports little drywall. Just the soffit and near the door. I also wanted the 2" space between the rear of the studs and the existing drywall for cable access. There are no cables on the floor. The cables go overhead to the shelves and drop down to an improvised series of cable hooks under the worksurface (rear). The tape machines are fed through the chair rail which is a 1x6 and a 1x2 strip. The strips are separated by an opening which is covered with black plastic glue-on baseboard. This pushes in and allows cables to drop through into the 2" space behind the studs. The oak for the chair rail (tape recorder rail?) is out on 1/2" plywood so it extends beyond the fabric wrapped panels which are built on 1x2s. The chair rail was to protect the fabric wrapped panels from tape machine penetration and also ended up being the divide between white and black fabric. >Any other >soundproofing measures taken, apart from the mineral wool? We added Masonite double doors to finish the "door room" outside the studio and to separate studio access from the furnace room. The studio door is a 2x4 structure with 3/4" plywood. It's oversized for the opening in the existing wall and is hinged to the 2x6 studs (yes we used 2x6s at the openings). This way there is some labyrinth which could have weatherstrip added, but it's not a source of noise--it's about equal to the ducts, the Dell 8300 quiet fans (2 8300 Dells) and the leakage from the transformer in the workshop and the speaker amp noise. >How >about the ceiling? The ceiling is existing. Dry wall and shot-on "cottage cheese" -- we did not paint it as that reduces the effectiveness of the diffusion of the ceiling. >Approximately how long has the whole project taken? Too long. We started in January. I had projects to do and Wolfgang had a vacation scheduled, I did a trip, oh it goes on and on. It was very fussy work with lots of skills needed. Oh, I rearranged much of the data storage during that time, planned the whole thing, got the electrical inspected... >Any advice for others wanting to build such a space? Allow lots of time and money. It probably ended up costing over $20K. I'm not sure I want to know. 548 hours of the handyman -- and he tooled when he was working. I never once found him slacking off. >Anything you >might approach differently? Mounting the transformer directly to the foundation rather than the wood structure. I think I would use 1x6 and 1x4 boards for the worksurface rather than the veneer oak particle board. Making the work surface a bit more "butcher blocky" but I'm not 100% happy with the oak veneer particle board. Use two 2x6 for the mid and rear cross rails for the work surface. It's a little springy for the turntable, but otherwise just fine. Cheers, Richard >Thanks much and great job! > >Paul > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" >wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I know many of you have heard me talk about building a new studio >over the > > last few months. I have now posted some pictures on my Web site: > > > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm > > > > We are now getting down to the backlog! > > > > Thanks for the opportunities! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > > Vignettes > > Media web: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- >FIX > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #690 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:02 am Subject: Re: Re: My new "studio" richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:04 PM 6/13/2005, you wrote: >If I may ask, What is the primary purpose for the studio? Are you mainly >data transfer or recording? What type of data/music? -mm Mostly A to D transfers. Some A to A and D to D and some mastering for cd release and cleanup for other uses. See the Web page in the sig. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #691 From: "Brian" Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:35 pm Subject: 5003 repairs close to Milwaukee criticsdrmr Offline Send Email I managed to snag an APR 5003 from going in the dumpster at a local news station a while back. I know it hasn't worked for the last four years and don't know what is wrong with it. Do any of you guys from Sony live in the midwest? Shipping this thing would be a pricey and I would rather drive it for repairs. I would love to have this machine working, but if not, it would make a great parts machine. Thanks guys. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #692 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:24 pm Subject: Re: 5003 repairs close to Milwaukee ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" wrote: > I managed to snag an APR 5003 from going in the dumpster at a local > news station a while back. I know it hasn't worked for the last four > years and don't know what is wrong with it. Do any of you guys from > Sony live in the midwest? Shipping this thing would be a pricey and I > would rather drive it for repairs. I would love to have this machine > working, but if not, it would make a great parts machine. Thanks guys. Hey Brian, Maybe you've considered driving out to LA,if you haven't done it already. If you do, I'll be glad to take a look at it. I think Steve in Nashville is much closer to you than anyone else. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #693 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: 5003 repairs close to Milwaukee bae_steve Offline Send Email Even cheaper would be to call me (615-242-0599) and let me tell you what and how to pull the circuit boards to send to me to test. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:24:14 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: 5003 repairs close to Milwaukee --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" wrote: > I managed to snag an APR 5003 from going in the dumpster at a local > news station a while back. I know it hasn't worked for the last four > years and don't know what is wrong with it. Do any of you guys from > Sony live in the midwest? Shipping this thing would be a pricey and I > would rather drive it for repairs. I would love to have this machine > working, but if not, it would make a great parts machine. Thanks guys. Hey Brian, Maybe you've considered driving out to LA,if you haven't done it already. If you do, I'll be glad to take a look at it. I think Steve in Nashville is much closer to you than anyone else. Cary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #694 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:09 am Subject: Access TO A P R - 5 0 0 3 V manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, All, I had to change web hosting providers this weekend as my ISP is very strict on things and my former web hosting company ( l u n a r p a g e s d o t c o m ) was not accepting bounced messages so my ISP blacklisted richardhess.com with rfc-ignorant.org which then caused some messages to bounce, etc. yadda yadda yadda Anyway, the new hosting company ( 1 a n d 1 d o t c o m ) requires a minimum of six-character passwords so http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Please be gentle on my bandwidth. Don't distribute the manual using my downloads...it's 1/4 GB for each download and I only get 50 GB a month. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #695 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jul 6, 2005 8:33 pm Subject: APR 16 and MCI machine parts richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, All, OK, I know y'all haven't heard of the APR-16, as only one was ever made AFAIK (and guess who has it ). Anyway, it's a "baby" APR-24 - same form factor, but only 16 channels and only up to 1" tape. I have the 1/2" conversion for it. I would like to add more heads to this machine. I currently have four head assemblies (and have tapes in house for every one of them): 1" 16 Track 1" 8 Track 1/2" 8 Track 1/2" 4 Track The above are all Applied Magnetics audio heads and Woelke erase heads I would like to consider adding: 1/2" 16 Track (I already have the raw head from a Tascam? machine) 1" 4 Track (if I can ever find a suitable head that doesn't cost what the machine cost) 1/2" 3 Track (I already have a head, but it may be too high inductance for this machine--it's a Nortronics) I have a nice 1/2" 2-channel set of Woelke heads that JRF mounted in an APR-5003 head assembly for me. The 1/2" 3-track head was originally bought when I thought my 1/2" platform was going to be Otari MTR-12s. JRF has already mounted it in an APR-5003 head assembly for me, but I'm wondering if I might be better off moving it. We'll see how the "FrankenSony" project works out in 1/4" before I make my final decision. I'm getting close to finishing this project. Anyway, there are several levels of parts I need to make this work, and I believe there is substantial commonality between certain MCI multi-track machines and the APR-16. The first thing I would like to collect are the little 20-pin Winchester (Positronics? Amp?) connectors that are used for the head cables. These are three-row connectors 7-6-7 pins per row. They have male and female slide posts at each end of the centre row and a U-shaped "bail" screwed into these. I would be ecstatic if I could collect a half dozen of these...as I see it: 16T 1/2" = 2 4T 1" = 1 3T 1/2" = 1 and that would leave me two spares. A few more might be useful as well. For example, I might want to make up a 7- or 14-track IRIG head assembly and feed it to remote FM electronics (though the speed range (15/30) of the APR-16 is limiting. Anyway, that's just me... As an aside, for now, I've decided NOT to go into the FM tape business, even though I had one inquiry. The next step up the wonderfulness ladder would be to obtain several empty head plates, possibly with guides. The head plate is fairly simple. It's a "D" shaped piece of flat aluminum 3/8" thick, shaped like a "D" with the face by the tape curved. The long dimension is about 6.8" while the end dimensions (straight) are about 1.85". Across the deepest part of the "D" in the middle from rear to front of curved surface is a hair over 2.5" There are four mounting holes on the rear of the unit, forming a rectangle, on center, of about 6-3/8 x 3/4" with the rear hole centers about 1/4" in from the straight rear of the plate. Does this sound like an MCI part or is it uniquely Sony? Head mounting hardware would also be wonderful...but that is varied. So, any ideas of stuff rummaging around the back room??? Oh, if the head plates are not available, I was thinking that I would probably put the 1/2" 16T head in the record position of the 8T 1/2" head assembly (carefully saving the record head just in case). That is probably the first priority since I have the head and no other place to use it. I'm not sure where the second priority will lie -- it will depend on how the FrankenSony project works out with the APR-5003s. It's one thing to do 8-track cartridge tapes on the FrankenSony, but it would be another thing to do some rare, old 3T 1/2" masters. The performance will have to be impeccable before I do that. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #696 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 7, 2005 12:20 am Subject: Fwd: AMPEX 3200's in Pomona - Dumpster Alert richardlhess Offline Send Email As Howard says, can anyone save these from the dumpster? Howard, if no one responds have you asked him if he's listed it with his local www.freecycle.org mailing lists? I'm forwarding this to the Sony APR list as there are some LA area members who are not on the Ampex list. > I got an email to day from someone who wants to dispose of > a 3200 line. He has a master and three slaves. They look very clean > in the pictures he sent, and he says the master powers up and > everything turns, always a good sign. I did not see any reel > hold downs in the pictures; this doesn't mean he doesn't have them. > > The machines are located at a church in Pomona, Calif., > which is in the Los Angeles vicinity. > > If you are interested in them, please contact Jonathan > Woods, whose email is jgwoods22@.... > > I have advised Mr. Woods that 3200's are useful chiefly as > parts for Model 300's, though the transports can be converted to > "normal" audio recorders with a fair bit of work. > > I don't know any more about them than that. Mr. Woods is > not a list subscriber and his interest in Ampexes seems limited to > clearing out these. > > Please, someone save these from the dumpster! > > Howard Sanner > ampexlist@... Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #697 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 7, 2005 2:00 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 and MCI machine parts ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Richard, I think the JH24 style head plate will work on the APR16 or 24 chassis. The chassis of the APR16 is the same as the 24, so all the spacing should be the same. Steve, do you remember whether or not the JH24 and APR24 headstacks were interchangeable? I seem to remember there was a problem when trying to mount an entire JH headstack on an APR, but I don't think it was the dimensions of the top plate. If you can have the appropriate side blocks made, you should be able to use the top plate. As far as the connectors, I think I have some I can spare. Let me look around. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, All, > > OK, I know y'all haven't heard of the APR-16, as only one was ever > made AFAIK (and guess who has it ). Anyway, it's a "baby" > APR-24 - same form factor, but only 16 channels and only up to 1" > tape. I have the 1/2" conversion for it. > > I would like to add more heads to this machine. > > I currently have four head assemblies (and have tapes in house for > every one of them): > > 1" 16 Track > 1" 8 Track > 1/2" 8 Track > 1/2" 4 Track > > The above are all Applied Magnetics audio heads and Woelke erase heads > > I would like to consider adding: > 1/2" 16 Track (I already have the raw head from a Tascam? machine) > 1" 4 Track (if I can ever find a suitable head that doesn't cost > what the machine cost) > 1/2" 3 Track (I already have a head, but it may be too high > inductance for this machine--it's a Nortronics) > > I have a nice 1/2" 2-channel set of Woelke heads that JRF mounted in > an APR-5003 head assembly for me. > > The 1/2" 3-track head was originally bought when I thought my 1/2" > platform was going to be Otari MTR-12s. > JRF has already mounted it in an APR-5003 head assembly for me, but > I'm wondering if I might be better off moving it. We'll see how the > "FrankenSony" project works out in 1/4" before I make my final > decision. I'm getting close to finishing this project. > > Anyway, there are several levels of parts I need to make this work, > and I believe there is substantial commonality between certain MCI > multi-track machines and the APR-16. > > The first thing I would like to collect are the little 20-pin > Winchester (Positronics? Amp?) connectors that are used for the head > cables. These are three-row connectors 7-6-7 pins per row. They have > male and female slide posts at each end of the centre row and a > U-shaped "bail" screwed into these. I would be ecstatic if I could > collect a half dozen of these...as I see it: > 16T 1/2" = 2 > 4T 1" = 1 > 3T 1/2" = 1 > and that would leave me two spares. A few more might be useful as > well. For example, I might want to make up a 7- or 14-track IRIG head > assembly and feed it to remote FM electronics (though the speed range > (15/30) of the APR-16 is limiting. Anyway, that's just me... > > As an aside, for now, I've decided NOT to go into the FM tape > business, even though I had one inquiry. > > The next step up the wonderfulness ladder would be to obtain several > empty head plates, possibly with guides. The head plate is fairly > simple. It's a "D" shaped piece of flat aluminum 3/8" thick, shaped > like a "D" with the face by the tape curved. > > The long dimension is about 6.8" while the end dimensions (straight) > are about 1.85". Across the deepest part of the "D" in the middle > from rear to front of curved surface is a hair over 2.5" > > There are four mounting holes on the rear of the unit, forming a > rectangle, on center, of about 6-3/8 x 3/4" with the rear hole > centers about 1/4" in from the straight rear of the plate. > > Does this sound like an MCI part or is it uniquely Sony? > > Head mounting hardware would also be wonderful...but that is varied. > > So, any ideas of stuff rummaging around the back room??? > > Oh, if the head plates are not available, I was thinking that I would > probably put the 1/2" 16T head in the record position of the 8T 1/2" > head assembly (carefully saving the record head just in case). That > is probably the first priority since I have the head and no other > place to use it. I'm not sure where the second priority will lie -- > it will depend on how the FrankenSony project works out with the > APR-5003s. It's one thing to do 8-track cartridge tapes on the > FrankenSony, but it would be another thing to do some rare, old 3T > 1/2" masters. The performance will have to be impeccable before I do that. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #698 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Jul 9, 2005 2:07 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 16 and MCI machine parts bae_steve Offline Send Email Sorry If I'm not keeping up to date: I'm in Alabama w/ a dial up that I just got working .....can't get online until everyone stops calling. The "Engineers" Prototyped the APR w/ a JH24 Assy. Except for the "Amorphous" heads, they should be an exact replacement. That's my story, .......and I'm sticking to it................. I'll be back in Nashville on Tue. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:00:40 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR 16 and MCI machine parts Hi Richard, I think the JH24 style head plate will work on the APR16 or 24 chassis. The chassis of the APR16 is the same as the 24, so all the spacing should be the same. Steve, do you remember whether or not the JH24 and APR24 headstacks were interchangeable? I seem to remember there was a problem when trying to mount an entire JH headstack on an APR, but I don't think it was the dimensions of the top plate. If you can have the appropriate side blocks made, you should be able to use the top plate. As far as the connectors, I think I have some I can spare. Let me look around. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Hi, All, > > OK, I know y'all haven't heard of the APR-16, as only one was ever > made AFAIK (and guess who has it ). Anyway, it's a "baby" > APR-24 - same form factor, but only 16 channels and only up to 1" > tape. I have the 1/2" conversion for it. > > I would like to add more heads to this machine. > > I currently have four head assemblies (and have tapes in house for > every one of them): > > 1" 16 Track > 1" 8 Track > 1/2" 8 Track > 1/2" 4 Track > > The above are all Applied Magnetics audio heads and Woelke erase heads > > I would like to consider adding: > 1/2" 16 Track (I already have the raw head from a Tascam? machine) > 1" 4 Track (if I can ever find a suitable head that doesn't cost > what the machine cost) > 1/2" 3 Track (I already have a head, but it may be too high > inductance for this machine--it's a Nortronics) > > I have a nice 1/2" 2-channel set of Woelke heads that JRF mounted in > an APR-5003 head assembly for me. > > The 1/2" 3-track head was originally bought when I thought my 1/2" > platform was going to be Otari MTR-12s. > JRF has already mounted it in an APR-5003 head assembly for me, but > I'm wondering if I might be better off moving it. We'll see how the > "FrankenSony" project works out in 1/4" before I make my final > decision. I'm getting close to finishing this project. > > Anyway, there are several levels of parts I need to make this work, > and I believe there is substantial commonality between certain MCI > multi-track machines and the APR-16. > > The first thing I would like to collect are the little 20-pin > Winchester (Positronics? Amp?) connectors that are used for the head > cables. These are three-row connectors 7-6-7 pins per row. They have > male and female slide posts at each end of the centre row and a > U-shaped "bail" screwed into these. I would be ecstatic if I could > collect a half dozen of these...as I see it: > 16T 1/2" = 2 > 4T 1" = 1 > 3T 1/2" = 1 > and that would leave me two spares. A few more might be useful as > well. For example, I might want to make up a 7- or 14-track IRIG head > assembly and feed it to remote FM electronics (though the speed range > (15/30) of the APR-16 is limiting. Anyway, that's just me... > > As an aside, for now, I've decided NOT to go into the FM tape > business, even though I had one inquiry. > > The next step up the wonderfulness ladder would be to obtain several > empty head plates, possibly with guides. The head plate is fairly > simple. It's a "D" shaped piece of flat aluminum 3/8" thick, shaped > like a "D" with the face by the tape curved. > > The long dimension is about 6.8" while the end dimensions (straight) > are about 1.85". Across the deepest part of the "D" in the middle > from rear to front of curved surface is a hair over 2.5" > > There are four mounting holes on the rear of the unit, forming a > rectangle, on center, of about 6-3/8 x 3/4" with the rear hole > centers about 1/4" in from the straight rear of the plate. > > Does this sound like an MCI part or is it uniquely Sony? > > Head mounting hardware would also be wonderful...but that is varied. > > So, any ideas of stuff rummaging around the back room??? > > Oh, if the head plates are not available, I was thinking that I would > probably put the 1/2" 16T head in the record position of the 8T 1/2" > head assembly (carefully saving the record head just in case). That > is probably the first priority since I have the head and no other > place to use it. I'm not sure where the second priority will lie -- > it will depend on how the FrankenSony project works out with the > APR-5003s. It's one thing to do 8-track cartridge tapes on the > FrankenSony, but it would be another thing to do some rare, old 3T > 1/2" masters. The performance will have to be impeccable before I do that. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE- FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #699 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:21 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 and MCI machine parts bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, Richard....... R U willing to pay for all this good advice? I'll have to print it out and re-read it and make margin notes, but you should be discussing this as a mutual benefit project w/ me and Cary. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:33:21 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] APR 16 and MCI machine parts Hi, All, OK, I know y'all haven't heard of the APR-16, as only one was ever made AFAIK (and guess who has it ). Anyway, it's a "baby" APR-24 - same form factor, but only 16 channels and only up to 1" tape. I have the 1/2" conversion for it. I would like to add more heads to this machine. I currently have four head assemblies (and have tapes in house for every one of them): 1" 16 Track 1" 8 Track 1/2" 8 Track 1/2" 4 Track The above are all Applied Magnetics audio heads and Woelke erase heads I would like to consider adding: 1/2" 16 Track (I already have the raw head from a Tascam? machine) 1" 4 Track (if I can ever find a suitable head that doesn't cost what the machine cost) 1/2" 3 Track (I already have a head, but it may be too high inductance for this machine--it's a Nortronics) I have a nice 1/2" 2-channel set of Woelke heads that JRF mounted in an APR-5003 head assembly for me. The 1/2" 3-track head was originally bought when I thought my 1/2" platform was going to be Otari MTR-12s. JRF has already mounted it in an APR-5003 head assembly for me, but I'm wondering if I might be better off moving it. We'll see how the "FrankenSony" project works out in 1/4" before I make my final decision. I'm getting close to finishing this project. Anyway, there are several levels of parts I need to make this work, and I believe there is substantial commonality between certain MCI multi-track machines and the APR-16. The first thing I would like to collect are the little 20-pin Winchester (Positronics? Amp?) connectors that are used for the head cables. These are three-row connectors 7-6-7 pins per row. They have male and female slide posts at each end of the centre row and a U-shaped "bail" screwed into these. I would be ecstatic if I could collect a half dozen of these...as I see it: 16T 1/2" = 2 4T 1" = 1 3T 1/2" = 1 and that would leave me two spares. A few more might be useful as well. For example, I might want to make up a 7- or 14-track IRIG head assembly and feed it to remote FM electronics (though the speed range (15/30) of the APR-16 is limiting. Anyway, that's just me... As an aside, for now, I've decided NOT to go into the FM tape business, even though I had one inquiry. The next step up the wonderfulness ladder would be to obtain several empty head plates, possibly with guides. The head plate is fairly simple. It's a "D" shaped piece of flat aluminum 3/8" thick, shaped like a "D" with the face by the tape curved. The long dimension is about 6.8" while the end dimensions (straight) are about 1.85". Across the deepest part of the "D" in the middle from rear to front of curved surface is a hair over 2.5" There are four mounting holes on the rear of the unit, forming a rectangle, on center, of about 6-3/8 x 3/4" with the rear hole centers about 1/4" in from the straight rear of the plate. Does this sound like an MCI part or is it uniquely Sony? Head mounting hardware would also be wonderful...but that is varied. So, any ideas of stuff rummaging around the back room??? Oh, if the head plates are not available, I was thinking that I would probably put the 1/2" 16T head in the record position of the 8T 1/2" head assembly (carefully saving the record head just in case). That is probably the first priority since I have the head and no other place to use it. I'm not sure where the second priority will lie -- it will depend on how the FrankenSony project works out with the APR-5003s. It's one thing to do 8-track cartridge tapes on the FrankenSony, but it would be another thing to do some rare, old 3T 1/2" masters. The performance will have to be impeccable before I do that. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:37 pm Subject: Re: APR 16 and MCI machine parts richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm willing to pay for parts but I didn't pose the question to pay for an answer. I was hoping someone would know the history off the top of their head. If you care to write me privately with an estimate of the amount of work you need to put into this to come up with a definitive answer and a cost for that, I'll entertain it, certainly. Cheers, Richard At 08:21 PM 7/11/2005, you wrote: Hey, Richard....... R U willing to pay for all this good advice? I'll have to print it out and re-read it and make margin notes, but you should be discussing this as a mutual benefit project w/ me and Cary. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:33:21 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] APR 16 and MCI machine parts Hi, All, OK, I know y'all haven't heard of the APR-16, as only one was ever made AFAIK (and guess who has it ). Anyway, it's a "baby" APR-24 - same form factor, but only 16 channels and only up to 1" tape. I have the 1/2" conversion for it. I would like to add more heads to this machine. I currently have four head assemblies (and have tapes in house for every one of them): 1" 16 Track 1" 8 Track 1/2" 8 Track 1/2" 4 Track The above are all Applied Magnetics audio heads and Woelke erase heads I would like to consider adding: 1/2" 16 Track (I already have the raw head from a Tascam? machine) 1" 4 Track (if I can ever find a suitable head that doesn't cost what the machine cost) 1/2" 3 Track (I already have a head, but it may be too high inductance for this machine--it's a Nortronics) I have a nice 1/2" 2-channel set of Woelke heads that JRF mounted in an APR-5003 head assembly for me. The 1/2" 3-track head was originally bought when I thought my 1/2" platform was going to be Otari MTR-12s. JRF has already mounted it in an APR-5003 head assembly for me, but I'm wondering if I might be better off moving it. We'll see how the "FrankenSony" project works out in 1/4" before I make my final decision. I'm getting close to finishing this project. Anyway, there are several levels of parts I need to make this work, and I believe there is substantial commonality between certain MCI multi-track machines and the APR-16. The first thing I would like to collect are the little 20-pin Winchester (Positronics? Amp?) connectors that are used for the head cables. These are three-row connectors 7-6-7 pins per row. They have male and female slide posts at each end of the centre row and a U-shaped "bail" screwed into these. I would be ecstatic if I could collect a half dozen of these...as I see it: 16T 1/2" = 2 4T 1" = 1 3T 1/2" = 1 and that would leave me two spares. A few more might be useful as well. For example, I might want to make up a 7- or 14-track IRIG head assembly and feed it to remote FM electronics (though the speed range (15/30) of the APR-16 is limiting. Anyway, that's just me... As an aside, for now, I've decided NOT to go into the FM tape business, even though I had one inquiry. The next step up the wonderfulness ladder would be to obtain several empty head plates, possibly with guides. The head plate is fairly simple. It's a "D" shaped piece of flat aluminum 3/8" thick, shaped like a "D" with the face by the tape curved. The long dimension is about 6.8" while the end dimensions (straight) are about 1.85". Across the deepest part of the "D" in the middle from rear to front of curved surface is a hair over 2.5" There are four mounting holes on the rear of the unit, forming a rectangle, on center, of about 6-3/8 x 3/4" with the rear hole centers about 1/4" in from the straight rear of the plate. Does this sound like an MCI part or is it uniquely Sony? Head mounting hardware would also be wonderful...but that is varied. So, any ideas of stuff rummaging around the back room??? Oh, if the head plates are not available, I was thinking that I would probably put the 1/2" 16T head in the record position of the 8T 1/2" head assembly (carefully saving the record head just in case). That is probably the first priority since I have the head and no other place to use it. I'm not sure where the second priority will lie -- it will depend on how the FrankenSony project works out with the APR-5003s. It's one thing to do 8-track cartridge tapes on the FrankenSony, but it would be another thing to do some rare, old 3T 1/2" masters. The performance will have to be impeccable before I do that. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #701 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:22 pm Subject: APR-5000 series RMD PCB issue... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hello, I've been servicing Sony RMD (reel motor drive) modules on and off for a year now. Before borrowing a 5000 series machine, I built a little test fixture to facilitate the process. They all share a common problem - a tendency to oscillate that causes the output transistors to get so hot as to de-solder themselves. I came up with a solution that seemed to work on the first batch with no complaints. The most recent batch of four did not respond as consistently well. Anyone have any insights? Possibly Sony issued an update? thanks in advance, eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #702 From: "Rick@..." Date: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:07 pm Subject: Re: APR-5000 series RMD PCB issue... allegrosound Offline Send Email what was your "solution" ? eddie ciletti wrote: Hello, I've been servicing Sony RMD (reel motor drive) modules on and off for a year now. Before borrowing a 5000 series machine, I built a little test fixture to facilitate the process. They all share a common problem - a tendency to oscillate that causes the output transistors to get so hot as to de-solder themselves. I came up with a solution that seemed to work on the first batch with no complaints. The most recent batch of four did not respond as consistently well. Anyone have any insights? Possibly Sony issued an update? thanks in advance, eddie ciletti __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #703 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:16 pm Subject: Re: APR-5000 series RMD PCB issue... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, I'm wondering why you're seeing this problem. I have not yet seen this (I don't think) in the machines I have/use. I'm wondering if this might be caused by lack of ventilation in the machines? Are the fans running (as noisy as they are)? I don't think there is an update to the PCB, but all the updates I think I have are in the PDFs that are at http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password apr5003v Cheers, Richard At 12:22 PM 7/12/2005, you wrote: >Hello, > >I've been servicing Sony RMD (reel motor drive) modules on and off >for a year now. Before borrowing a 5000 series machine, I built a >little test fixture to facilitate the process. > >They all share a common problem - a tendency to oscillate that >causes the output transistors to get so hot as to de-solder >themselves. I came up with a solution that seemed to work on the >first batch with no complaints. The most recent batch of four did >not respond as consistently well. > >Anyone have any insights? Possibly Sony issued an update? > >thanks in advance, Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #704 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:36 pm Subject: Re: APR-5000 series RMD PCB issue... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard, my client has at least six of these machines and every card does it. I'll ask about their fans, my loaner / host fan is working. It's not a gradual thing. You can instantly hear the oscillation through the motor coils once the machine boots up and, it sounds eerily like "squeaky brakes." Changing the .01 B-C cap to .1 worked last time. So did adding a cap in the feedback loop of IC- 3/4 and IC-4/1. Fixed except for one module. I've changed a few resistors but now am thinking perhaps all those tiny diodes are possibly to blame. So I've got those on order. I'm also thinking about replacing caps around the regulators even though they don't seem to be oscillating. will keep you posted. Perhaps these machines have seen more use than most? It is a school and I don't know if they are the original owners. ec At 12:16 PM 7/12/2005, you wrote: Hi, Eddie, I'm wondering why you're seeing this problem. I have not yet seen this (I don't think) in the machines I have/use. I'm wondering if this might be caused by lack of ventilation in the machines? Are the fans running (as noisy as they are)? I don't think there is an update to the PCB, but all the updates I think I have are in the PDFs that are at http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password apr5003v Cheers, Richard At 12:22 PM 7/12/2005, you wrote: >Hello, > >I've been servicing Sony RMD (reel motor drive) modules on and off >for a year now. Before borrowing a 5000 series machine, I built a >little test fixture to facilitate the process. > >They all share a common problem - a tendency to oscillate that >causes the output transistors to get so hot as to de-solder >themselves. I came up with a solution that seemed to work on the >first batch with no complaints. The most recent batch of four did >not respond as consistently well. > >Anyone have any insights? Possibly Sony issued an update? > >thanks in advance, Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #705 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:06 pm Subject: New Member saying Hi Faroutrecording@... Send Email Hey...I wanted to send an email to the group to announce my joiningness, (and to get the e-dress into my auto guest list book so I don't have to remember it). I am an owner of 3 Sony APR-5003v Machines. Thanks for the invite to the group (richard) and I look forward to depending on all of you for information in the future! :) Thanks, Travis Tickemyer Chief Engineer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #706 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:01 pm Subject: Re: New Member saying Hi ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Travis, Welcome to the group. If you ever need any APR advice, feel free to ask here. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Faroutrecording@a... wrote: > Hey...I wanted to send an email to the group to announce my joiningness, > (and to get the e-dress into my auto guest list book so I don't have to remember > it). > > I am an owner of 3 Sony APR-5003v Machines. > > Thanks for the invite to the group (richard) and I look forward to depending > on all of you for information in the future! :) > > Thanks, > > Travis Tickemyer > Chief Engineer > Far Out Recording > _faroutrecording@a..._ (mailto:faroutrecording@a...) > (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #707 From: George Utter Date: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:04 pm Subject: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #708 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:24 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, George, I hate to be crass and commercial at a time like this...but my transfer services would have cost between $1500-2000 for 50 tunes on ten 1" tapes (a rough estimate without knowing details). My point being whether someone else or I do the transfers, it's often far more cost effective than trying to do it yourself. Anyway, if you can't repair it yourself, you need to find someone who can, I guess. I don't know if Purple Audio in Long Island City can do it for you or not. He seems like a good guy, but I would worry about him building something from scratch based on some reports I've received. For sake of reference, when I moved last year from Glendale, California to Aurora, Ontario, although I had North American Van Lines with a dedicated van, I still paid about $400 to have my APR-16 crated for loading on the van. All other tape machines were in double-wall cardboard cartons with foam and bubble wrap. This was moving, not shipping. When I ship a tape machine (I don't ship something as large as the MCI), I double-box it. I hope that you've filed an insurance claim with FedEx. Caution: in most instances, they total the property, give you the money and then take the property. I had UPS damage an APR-5000 and I told them I wanted $350 PLUS keeping it. The $350 was to repair it. After I got the zone manager involved, that happened. Lots of tape machines get damaged by FedUps. Good luck! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #709 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:33 pm Subject: RE: My MCI nightmare ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #710 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:46 am Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, George Tom @ Amp is a good guy. It sounds like Fedex is responsible for the damage. Tom always insures, so you should be covered. I can either talk you through the repairs you need to do, or you can UPS the parts/pcb's to me for repair in our shop. It's $65.00 an hour either way. We have all the parts and pieces, and I'm about as qualified as you can get to repair MCI tape recorders. We would have sold, and delivered a machine to you for less money than you already have into it. E-mail me direct = mcijh@..., or call 615-242-0596. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio (blevinsaudio.com) -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #711 From: George Utter Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:35 am Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hi Steve, Thanks for your concern.I really want to repair the machine and get everything right.I spoke to Tom on Friday and he said the same thing about talking me through repairs.I've never met him but I agree with you,I trust him and like his honesty.Where are you located?I am inclined to try working with Tom since he will have to file the claim with FEDEX but if your closer I might try working with you.I'm hoping to be able to remove the electronics modules for tracks 7/8[the drawer slides out] and just ship it for repair.Thats the section that got bashed and has 2 cal. switches and two vol. pots broken and no input on either track.the other track thats not inputting is track 1.I also realized the top of the transport has two dents in it that match the handles on the 7/8 module so it was flipped up hard enough to dent the plate.I also realized the tape lifters are not working.If I could drive this thing to someone and pick it up I would feel better about the prospects of fixing it since I may not even be aware of all thats wrong with it.Again,thanks for your E-mail , George Utter--- gutter5030 @ yahoo.com mcijh@... wrote: Hey, George Tom @ Amp is a good guy. It sounds like Fedex is responsible for the damage. Tom always insures, so you should be covered. I can either talk you through the repairs you need to do, or you can UPS the parts/pcb's to me for repair in our shop. It's $65.00 an hour either way. We have all the parts and pieces, and I'm about as qualified as you can get to repair MCI tape recorders. We would have sold, and delivered a machine to you for less money than you already have into it. E-mail me direct = mcijh@..., or call 615-242-0596. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio (blevinsaudio.com) -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #712 From: George Utter Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:12 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Richard, Thanks for your input.Besides wanting to have the machine for transferring the as yet unrelinquished master tapes I really wanted to HAVE a pro format machine.I have a Tascam MS 16 which sounds fine but is still 4 tracks per 1/4".Interestingly enough,I am able to play 1" 8 track tapes on it,they just come up on my console 2 channels to 1 track and I'm not sure if all the audio is coming through.I tried to find a diagram or comparison online between the two head configurations,it went nowhere.Anyway, I intend to use the MCI for recording as well.I'm not even sure what digital format I would transfer to since I have not yet bought an audio computer.I get several magazines-EQ,Mix,Electronic Musician,Recording etc. and am bewildered by the choices,reports of crashes,software conflicts,learning curves and abandoning of old programs for new.I have two 24 track hard disc recorders,a Mackie MDR[now abandoned] and a Fostex D2424lv which I like and use all the time for live recording.I have yet to figure out how to save multitrack data from either machine so I just keep buying hard drives and swapping them out.Still hoping to ressurect the MCI, I will see what AMP says on Monday.Thanks again George Utter "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hi, George, I hate to be crass and commercial at a time like this...but my transfer services would have cost between $1500-2000 for 50 tunes on ten 1" tapes (a rough estimate without knowing details). My point being whether someone else or I do the transfers, it's often far more cost effective than trying to do it yourself. Anyway, if you can't repair it yourself, you need to find someone who can, I guess. I don't know if Purple Audio in Long Island City can do it for you or not. He seems like a good guy, but I would worry about him building something from scratch based on some reports I've received. For sake of reference, when I moved last year from Glendale, California to Aurora, Ontario, although I had North American Van Lines with a dedicated van, I still paid about $400 to have my APR-16 crated for loading on the van. All other tape machines were in double-wall cardboard cartons with foam and bubble wrap. This was moving, not shipping. When I ship a tape machine (I don't ship something as large as the MCI), I double-box it. I hope that you've filed an insurance claim with FedEx. Caution: in most instances, they total the property, give you the money and then take the property. I had UPS damage an APR-5000 and I told them I wanted $350 PLUS keeping it. The $350 was to repair it. After I got the zone manager involved, that happened. Lots of tape machines get damaged by FedUps. Good luck! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #713 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:45 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare bae_steve Offline Send Email Tom and Chris Rappolt (brothers) are my best buddies (next to Randy B.). I'm in Nashville. Check w/ Tom, but, like I said, I have all the parts and pieces. If you decide to go w/ me, tell Tom, so we can co-ordinate the insurance. SS -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Steve, Thanks for your concern.I really want to repair the machine and get everything right.I spoke to Tom on Friday and he said the same thing about talking me through repairs.I've never met him but I agree with you,I trust him and like his honesty.Where are you located?I am inclined to try working with Tom since he will have to file the claim with FEDEX but if your closer I might try working with you.I'm hoping to be able to remove the electronics modules for tracks 7/8[the drawer slides out] and just ship it for repair.Thats the section that got bashed and has 2 cal. switches and two vol. pots broken and no input on either track.the other track thats not inputting is track 1.I also realized the top of the transport has two dents in it that match the handles on the 7/8 module so it was flipped up hard enough to dent the plate.I also realized the tape lifters are not working.If I could drive this thing to someone and pick it up I would feel better about the prospects of fixing it since I may not even be aware of all thats wrong with it.Again,thanks for your E-mail , George Utter--- gutter5030 @ yahoo.com mcijh@... wrote: Hey, George Tom @ Amp is a good guy. It sounds like Fedex is responsible for the damage. Tom always insures, so you should be covered. I can either talk you through the repairs you need to do, or you can UPS the parts/pcb's to me for repair in our shop. It's $65.00 an hour either way. We have all the parts and pieces, and I'm about as qualified as you can get to repair MCI tape recorders. We would have sold, and delivered a machine to you for less money than you already have into it. E-mail me direct = mcijh@..., or call 615-242-0596. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio (blevinsaudio.com) -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page SPONSORED LINKS Audio tape recorder Sony recorder Sony professional Audio recorder Entertainment new york Pro audio YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #714 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:11 pm Subject: NYC metro analog tape deck repair andy30ips Offline Send Email Try New Jersey Factory Service, http://www.njfactoryservice.com/ Not cheap, but fair - and it's fixed right by people who know pro analog machines, and have worked on them for 25 years. My OTARI MTR-12 1/2" 4 track was restored to new spec by them. Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #715 From: John McDaniel Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:42 pm Subject: Otari MTR-12: can it do 3-3/4 ips? sonicartsson... Offline Send Email An appreciative APR-3000v owner here. Thanks for all of the info this list provides. I have an opportunity to pick up an Otari MTR-12 1/4" 4 track in good condition at an excellent price. I actually used this machine some 16+ years ago in a studio that's no longer around (my first full time studio gig). It's had no substantial use in well over 10 years and light use before that. It operates at 7.5, 15 and 30 ips. Do I recall that these machines could be ordered in a 3.75, 7.5 & 15 ips configuration? I pulled the cards to look for jumpers to enable 3.75 ips operation. I only found two unmarked jumpers on one of the control cards. Can this machine operate at 3.75 ips via jumpers, a modification, or otherwise? I get calls for transfers from 3.75 ips quarter track tape and I'd like to have a nice machine with which to transfer. Thanks for any information. Regards, j mcd --- John McDaniel johnmcd@... --- Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #716 From: George Utter Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:31 pm Subject: Re: NYC metro analog tape deck repair gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hello Andy,Thanks for the E-mail.I know of NJ Factory Service since I have a Tascam MS16 and have been there several times to have work done.I thought they were strictly Teac/Tascam service but I guess not.The guy from AMP wants me to try some procedures before I ship it back to him so I'm going to try this first and see what happens.Again, thanks for your input,this adds another option if I need it. George Utter---gutter5030@... Andrew Pennella wrote: Try New Jersey Factory Service, http://www.njfactoryservice.com/ Not cheap, but fair - and it's fixed right by people who know pro analog machines, and have worked on them for 25 years. My OTARI MTR-12 1/2" 4 track was restored to new spec by them. Andy Pennella Stamford, CT Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #717 From: George Utter Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:37 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Wow you Sony guys are tight.Tom wants me to try swapping some cards and pulling and reinserting some cards so I'm going to try this and see what happens.How far is Nashville from NY?I will get back to you when I know more. George Utter mcijh@... wrote: Tom and Chris Rappolt (brothers) are my best buddies (next to Randy B.). I'm in Nashville. Check w/ Tom, but, like I said, I have all the parts and pieces. If you decide to go w/ me, tell Tom, so we can co-ordinate the insurance. SS -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Steve, Thanks for your concern.I really want to repair the machine and get everything right.I spoke to Tom on Friday and he said the same thing about talking me through repairs.I've never met him but I agree with you,I trust him and like his honesty.Where are you located?I am inclined to try working with Tom since he will have to file the claim with FEDEX but if your closer I might try working with you.I'm hoping to be able to remove the electronics modules for tracks 7/8[the drawer slides out] and just ship it for repair.Thats the section that got bashed and has 2 cal. switches and two vol. pots broken and no input on either track.the other track thats not inputting is track 1.I also realized the top of the transport has two dents in it that match the handles on the 7/8 module so it was flipped up hard enough to dent the plate.I also realized the tape lifters are not working.If I could drive this thing to someone and pick it up I would feel better about the prospects of fixing it since I may not even be aware of all thats wrong with it.Again,thanks for your E-mail , George Utter--- gutter5030 @ yahoo.com mcijh@... wrote: Hey, George Tom @ Amp is a good guy. It sounds like Fedex is responsible for the damage. Tom always insures, so you should be covered. I can either talk you through the repairs you need to do, or you can UPS the parts/pcb's to me for repair in our shop. It's $65.00 an hour either way. We have all the parts and pieces, and I'm about as qualified as you can get to repair MCI tape recorders. We would have sold, and delivered a machine to you for less money than you already have into it. E-mail me direct = mcijh@..., or call 615-242-0596. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio (blevinsaudio.com) -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page SPONSORED LINKS Audio tape recorder Sony recorder Sony professional Audio recorder Entertainment new york Pro audio YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #718 From: George Utter Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:37 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Wow you Sony guys are tight.Tom wants me to try swapping some cards and pulling and reinserting some cards so I'm going to try this and see what happens.How far is Nashville from NY?I will get back to you when I know more. George Utter mcijh@... wrote: Tom and Chris Rappolt (brothers) are my best buddies (next to Randy B.). I'm in Nashville. Check w/ Tom, but, like I said, I have all the parts and pieces. If you decide to go w/ me, tell Tom, so we can co-ordinate the insurance. SS -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Steve, Thanks for your concern.I really want to repair the machine and get everything right.I spoke to Tom on Friday and he said the same thing about talking me through repairs.I've never met him but I agree with you,I trust him and like his honesty.Where are you located?I am inclined to try working with Tom since he will have to file the claim with FEDEX but if your closer I might try working with you.I'm hoping to be able to remove the electronics modules for tracks 7/8[the drawer slides out] and just ship it for repair.Thats the section that got bashed and has 2 cal. switches and two vol. pots broken and no input on either track.the other track thats not inputting is track 1.I also realized the top of the transport has two dents in it that match the handles on the 7/8 module so it was flipped up hard enough to dent the plate.I also realized the tape lifters are not working.If I could drive this thing to someone and pick it up I would feel better about the prospects of fixing it since I may not even be aware of all thats wrong with it.Again,thanks for your E-mail , George Utter--- gutter5030 @ yahoo.com mcijh@... wrote: Hey, George Tom @ Amp is a good guy. It sounds like Fedex is responsible for the damage. Tom always insures, so you should be covered. I can either talk you through the repairs you need to do, or you can UPS the parts/pcb's to me for repair in our shop. It's $65.00 an hour either way. We have all the parts and pieces, and I'm about as qualified as you can get to repair MCI tape recorders. We would have sold, and delivered a machine to you for less money than you already have into it. E-mail me direct = mcijh@..., or call 615-242-0596. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio (blevinsaudio.com) -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page SPONSORED LINKS Audio tape recorder Sony recorder Sony professional Audio recorder Entertainment new york Pro audio YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #719 From: George Utter Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:54 pm Subject: RE: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hi Scott, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.The lights are at the bottom of my list of things to fix at this point but I did go out and look for the board but wasn't sure which one it was.Also I'm a little leery of poking around in things I don't know about in fear of making things worse.Tom from AMP wants me to try swapping some cards so I will do that.This thing needs to be OFF when you touch stuff I'm thinking -right?Tom didn't say.Tommorow is another day so we'll try this tomorrow. sincerely, George Scott Phillips wrote: I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #720 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Otari MTR-12: can it do 3-3/4 ips? bae_steve Offline Send Email An MTR-12 1/4" 4 track? Doesn't sound right to me. I have a good friend who has a "like new" Revox PR-99 machine for sale (1/4" 2 trk) for about $800.00 at 1-7/8 & 3-1/2 if you're interested. Contact Chris @ A.M.P. Services W.P.B. Fla.) to see if the Otari is convertable. SS -----Original Message----- From: John McDaniel To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:42:49 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Otari MTR-12: can it do 3-3/4 ips? An appreciative APR-3000v owner here. Thanks for all of the info this list provides. I have an opportunity to pick up an Otari MTR-12 1/4" 4 track in good condition at an excellent price. I actually used this machine some 16+ years ago in a studio that's no longer around (my first full time studio gig). It's had no substantial use in well over 10 years and light use before that. It operates at 7.5, 15 and 30 ips. Do I recall that these machines could be ordered in a 3.75, 7.5 & 15 ips configuration? I pulled the cards to look for jumpers to enable 3.75 ips operation. I only found two unmarked jumpers on one of the control cards. Can this machine operate at 3.75 ips via jumpers, a modification, or otherwise? I get calls for transfers from 3.75 ips quarter track tape and I'd like to have a nice machine with which to transfer. Thanks for any information. Regards, j mcd --- John McDaniel johnmcd@... --- Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #721 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:14 pm Subject: Re: My MCI nightmare bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, George.......Scott was only Q.A.......he knows what he's talkin' about, but I was senior service eng. for tape machines. It's only a nightmare if you don't pay attention to what you're being told.......P.S. Tom is a good guy, but he has no training......he calls me when he needs to know something. Cary (ladewd) and I did the training. SS -----Original Message----- From: George Utter To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Scott, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.The lights are at the bottom of my list of things to fix at this point but I did go out and look for the board but wasn't sure which one it was.Also I'm a little leery of poking around in things I don't know about in fear of making things worse.Tom from AMP wants me to try swapping some cards so I will do that.This thing needs to be OFF when you touch stuff I'm thinking -right?Tom didn't say.Tommorow is another day so we'll try this tomorrow. sincerely, George Scott Phillips wrote: I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #722 From: Date: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:24 pm Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Otari_MTR-12:_can_it_do_3-3/4_ips??= richardlhess Offline Send Email John, You own a 3000v? or a 5003v? The MTR-12 can do 3-3/4 with what I consider extensive hardware mods of the audio cards--changing a bunch of components in the EQ. I don't recall how the servos change, but I think you can do it. Do you want to do 4-channel or just 1/4 track stereo? If you want to do stereo, you can do that with an APR-5000. The APR will go to 3-3/4 although most earlier software versions require rebooting (power cycling) when changing speed when the head DIP switch is in the low-speed mode. The MTR doesn't have an adjustable gap loss EQ so there is only one (instead of two ) knobs to flatten the HF. I dumped 4 MTR10s/12s and focused on Sony APR5000s and Studer A810s for transfer work. http://www.richardhess.com/tape/facility.htm John McDaniel wrote on 07/26/2005, 01:42:49 AM: > An appreciative APR-3000v owner here. Thanks for all of the info this > list provides. > > I have an opportunity to pick up an Otari MTR-12 1/4" 4 track in good > condition at an excellent price. > > I actually used this machine some 16+ years ago in a studio that's no > longer around (my first full time studio gig). It's had no > substantial use in well over 10 years and light use before that. It > operates at 7.5, 15 and 30 ips. Do I recall that these machines could > be ordered in a 3.75, 7.5 & 15 ips configuration? > > I pulled the cards to look for jumpers to enable 3.75 ips operation. > I only found two unmarked jumpers on one of the control cards. > > Can this machine operate at 3.75 ips via jumpers, a modification, or > otherwise? > > I get calls for transfers from 3.75 ips quarter track tape and I'd > like to have a nice machine with which to transfer. > > Thanks for any information. > > Regards, j mcd > > --- > John McDaniel johnmcd@... > --- > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #723 From: John McDaniel Date: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:38 am Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Otari_MTR-12:_can_it_do_3-3/4_ips??= sonicartsson... Offline Send Email On Jul 25, 2005, at 10:24 PM, wrote: > John, > > You own a 3000v? or a 5003v? A 5003v. Sorry. Brain cramp/typo. > The MTR-12 can do 3-3/4 with what I consider extensive hardware > mods of > the audio cards--changing a bunch of components in the EQ. I don't > recall how the servos change, but I think you can do it. I've been out of the tape realm for a long time. I keep an APR around that I bought about 8 or 9 years ago at a video post facility auction. VERY low usage and in great shape. Sounds like too much trouble to mod an MTR-12. > Do you want to do 4-channel or just 1/4 track stereo? Right now, 1/4 track stereo. > If you want to do stereo, you can do that with an APR-5000. I didn't know this. Is loss of gain the only problem with the track mis-alignment? Is it merely a matter of gain compensation? Is there a fixed gain value to apply to the right channel to compensate for the tape's mis-alignment with the right channel of the two track head on the APR? > The APR will go to 3-3/4 > although most earlier software versions require rebooting (power > cycling) when changing speed when the head DIP switch is in the > low-speed mode. I didn't know about the DIP switches. I've looked that up in the docs and taken the head stack off. So, I would need to re-calibrate at 3-3/4, right? The lowest speed MRL tape I have is 7.5 ips. > The MTR doesn't have an adjustable gap loss EQ so there is only one > (instead of two ) knobs to flatten the HF. I dumped 4 MTR10s/12s and > focused on Sony APR5000s and Studer A810s for transfer work. OK. Well, I can barely stand to see a good machine sit around waiting for dumpster day when it could be had for a few hundred dollars. Thank you very much for your help & information. I'm trying to help a composer with some 25 year old quarter track stereo tapes of some orchestral readings. It's a favor really, but I want to give him a decent transfer. I call you about your approximate charge to transfer about 50 minutes of material from three tapes? I'm not sure how he would feel about letting go of the tapes & shipping them, but I can find out. Best Regards, j mcd -- John McDaniel Sonic Arts -- Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #724 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:34 am Subject: RE: My MCI nightmare ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Actually, this is one of the rare equipments that is relatively immune to messing with the boards when the power is on, so long as you don't cross=plug a molex. Having said that, go along with Steve and Tom. Steve is right, I was QA manager in Sony, but I also spent years both before and after with these machines. I was chief maintenance engineer for a very large studio that was all MCI, so I am more than familiar with them. I still service them for old clients. Steve may or may not know that. Doesn't matter in any case. There are folks here to help, I among them. I also have a fair quantity of spare parts for JH machines, along with access to test beds for cards. If I can help, just ask.... Richard was right though... for a limited number of tapes, better to have someone on list convert them for you.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:55 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Scott, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.The lights are at the bottom of my list of things to fix at this point but I did go out and look for the board but wasn't sure which one it was.Also I'm a little leery of poking around in things I don't know about in fear of making things worse.Tom from AMP wants me to try swapping some cards so I will do that.This thing needs to be OFF when you touch stuff I'm thinking -right?Tom didn't say.Tommorow is another day so we'll try this tomorrow. sincerely, George Scott Phillips wrote: I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #725 From: Date: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:44 pm Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Otari_MTR-12:_can_it_do_3-3/4_ips??=3D?= richardlhess Offline Send Email > I've been out of the tape realm for a long time. I keep an APR around > that I bought about 8 or 9 years ago at a video post facility > auction. VERY low usage and in great shape. > > Sounds like too much trouble to mod an MTR-12. That was my take on it... > > > Do you want to do 4-channel or just 1/4 track stereo? > > Right now, 1/4 track stereo. > > > If you want to do stereo, you can do that with an APR-5000. > > I didn't know this. Is loss of gain the only problem with the track > mis-alignment? Is it merely a matter of gain compensation? Is there a > fixed gain value to apply to the right channel to compensate for the > tape's mis-alignment with the right channel of the two track head on > the APR? Sorry--you need a head block and a head, but that's much simpler. You change the head ID code so you can freely swap head blocks...or replace the record head with a 1/4 track PB head and add a toggle switch. Lots of much simpler (to me) alternatives than the major mods to the MTR electronic cards. > > I didn't know about the DIP switches. I've looked that up in the docs > and taken the head stack off. So, I would need to re-calibrate at > 3-3/4, right? The lowest speed MRL tape I have is 7.5 ips. In the choosing and using document on MRL's Web site, I think he gives the differences between the test tapes. I would change the head "serial number" when using 1/4 track. Joe Dundovic (listed on my Web site http://www.richardhess.com/tape/resources.htm has a head that will fit the APR. MRL's Web site is there, too. I'm on the road on dialup. sorry. > > > The MTR doesn't have an adjustable gap loss EQ so there is only one > > (instead of two ) knobs to flatten the HF. I dumped 4 MTR10s/12s and > > focused on Sony APR5000s and Studer A810s for transfer work. > > OK. Well, I can barely stand to see a good machine sit around waiting > for dumpster day when it could be had for a few hundred dollars. Don't ever dumpster a good APR!!!! They are some of the best machines for archival playback I can think of. > > Thank you very much for your help & information. I'm trying to help a > composer with some 25 year old quarter track stereo tapes of some > orchestral readings. It's a favor really, but I want to give him a > decent transfer. I call you about your approximate charge to transfer > about 50 minutes of material from three tapes? I'm not sure how he > would feel about letting go of the tapes & shipping them, but I can > find out. > > Best Regards, j mcd > > -- > John McDaniel > Sonic Arts > > -- > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #726 From: "bae_steve" Date: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:59 pm Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Otari_MTR-12:_can_it_do_3-3/4_ips??=3D?= bae_steve Offline Send Email I go to yard sales and pick up "8 track" players/recorders for 4 trk. 1/4 inch heads. They fit perfectly in MCI JH, and Sony APR head blocks. Crimp pins are Amphenol, and the rest is just adjustment. I've had to pay as much as $5.00 for one in a nice wood cabinet that worked. SS --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > I've been out of the tape realm for a long time. I keep an APR around > > that I bought about 8 or 9 years ago at a video post facility > > auction. VERY low usage and in great shape. > > > > Sounds like too much trouble to mod an MTR-12. > > That was my take on it... > > > > > > Do you want to do 4-channel or just 1/4 track stereo? > > > > Right now, 1/4 track stereo. > > > > > If you want to do stereo, you can do that with an APR-5000. > > > > I didn't know this. Is loss of gain the only problem with the track > > mis-alignment? Is it merely a matter of gain compensation? Is there a > > fixed gain value to apply to the right channel to compensate for the > > tape's mis-alignment with the right channel of the two track head on > > the APR? > > Sorry--you need a head block and a head, but that's much simpler. > > You change the head ID code so you can freely swap head blocks...or > replace the record head with a 1/4 track PB head and add a toggle > switch. Lots of much simpler (to me) alternatives than the major mods > to the MTR electronic cards. > > > > I didn't know about the DIP switches. I've looked that up in the docs > > and taken the head stack off. So, I would need to re-calibrate at > > 3-3/4, right? The lowest speed MRL tape I have is 7.5 ips. > > In the choosing and using document on MRL's Web site, I think he gives > the differences between the test tapes. I would change the head "serial > number" when using 1/4 track. Joe Dundovic (listed on my Web site > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/resources.htm has a head that will fit > the APR. MRL's Web site is there, too. I'm on the road on dialup. > sorry. > > > > > > The MTR doesn't have an adjustable gap loss EQ so there is only one > > > (instead of two ) knobs to flatten the HF. I dumped 4 MTR10s/12s and > > > focused on Sony APR5000s and Studer A810s for transfer work. > > > > OK. Well, I can barely stand to see a good machine sit around waiting > > for dumpster day when it could be had for a few hundred dollars. > > Don't ever dumpster a good APR!!!! They are some of the best machines > for archival playback I can think of. > > > > Thank you very much for your help & information. I'm trying to help a > > composer with some 25 year old quarter track stereo tapes of some > > orchestral readings. It's a favor really, but I want to give him a > > decent transfer. I call you about your approximate charge to transfer > > about 50 minutes of material from three tapes? I'm not sure how he > > would feel about letting go of the tapes & shipping them, but I can > > find out. > > > > Best Regards, j mcd > > > > -- > > John McDaniel > > Sonic Arts > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #727 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:54 pm Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Otari_MTR-12:_can_it_do_3 ladewd Offline Send Email Damn, I just threw away an 8 track I've been keeping around since the early '70's. If I knew that, I would have disected it. CA --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > I go to yard sales and pick up "8 track" players/recorders for 4 trk. > 1/4 inch heads. They fit perfectly in MCI JH, and Sony APR head > blocks. Crimp pins are Amphenol, and the rest is just adjustment. > I've had to pay as much as $5.00 for one in a nice wood cabinet that > worked. > > SS > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > > I've been out of the tape realm for a long time. I keep an APR > around > > > that I bought about 8 or 9 years ago at a video post facility > > > auction. VERY low usage and in great shape. > > > > > > Sounds like too much trouble to mod an MTR-12. > > > > That was my take on it... > > > > > > > > > Do you want to do 4-channel or just 1/4 track stereo? > > > > > > Right now, 1/4 track stereo. > > > > > > > If you want to do stereo, you can do that with an APR-5000. > > > > > > I didn't know this. Is loss of gain the only problem with the > track > > > mis-alignment? Is it merely a matter of gain compensation? Is > there a > > > fixed gain value to apply to the right channel to compensate for > the > > > tape's mis-alignment with the right channel of the two track head > on > > > the APR? > > > > Sorry--you need a head block and a head, but that's much simpler. > > > > You change the head ID code so you can freely swap head blocks...or > > replace the record head with a 1/4 track PB head and add a toggle > > switch. Lots of much simpler (to me) alternatives than the major > mods > > to the MTR electronic cards. > > > > > > I didn't know about the DIP switches. I've looked that up in the > docs > > > and taken the head stack off. So, I would need to re-calibrate > at > > > 3-3/4, right? The lowest speed MRL tape I have is 7.5 ips. > > > > In the choosing and using document on MRL's Web site, I think he > gives > > the differences between the test tapes. I would change the > head "serial > > number" when using 1/4 track. Joe Dundovic (listed on my Web site > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/resources.htm has a head that will > fit > > the APR. MRL's Web site is there, too. I'm on the road on dialup. > > sorry. > > > > > > > > > The MTR doesn't have an adjustable gap loss EQ so there is only > one > > > > (instead of two ) knobs to flatten the HF. I dumped 4 > MTR10s/12s and > > > > focused on Sony APR5000s and Studer A810s for transfer work. > > > > > > OK. Well, I can barely stand to see a good machine sit around > waiting > > > for dumpster day when it could be had for a few hundred dollars. > > > > Don't ever dumpster a good APR!!!! They are some of the best > machines > > for archival playback I can think of. > > > > > > Thank you very much for your help & information. I'm trying to > help a > > > composer with some 25 year old quarter track stereo tapes of > some > > > orchestral readings. It's a favor really, but I want to give him > a > > > decent transfer. I call you about your approximate charge to > transfer > > > about 50 minutes of material from three tapes? I'm not sure how > he > > > would feel about letting go of the tapes & shipping them, but I > can > > > find out. > > > > > > Best Regards, j mcd > > > > > > -- > > > John McDaniel > > > Sonic Arts > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #728 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:38 pm Subject: Re: Re: = allegrosound Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-INTERCEPTOR-III-CONVERTIBLE-1976-JENSEN-ORIG-25K-MILES-CALIF-CAR-OWNED-SINCE-1980_W0QQitemZ4565103799QQcategoryZ6472QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ladewd wrote: Damn, I just threw away an 8 track I've been keeping around since the early '70's. If I knew that, I would have disected it. CA --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "bae_steve" wrote: > I go to yard sales and pick up "8 track" > players/recorders for 4 trk. 1/4 inch heads. > They fit perfectly in MCI JH, and Sony APR head > blocks. Crimp pins are Amphenol, and the rest is just > adjustment. I've had to pay as much as $5.00 for one > in a nice wood cabinet that > worked. SS __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #729 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:39 pm Subject: Pinout for 78-pin head connector richardlhess Offline Send Email Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #730 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:28 pm Subject: Re: Pinout for 78-pin head connector bae_steve Offline Send Email Contact Chris or Tom Rappolt @ Amp Services (561-333-0335). They sent it to me a couple of years ago, but there's no tellin' where that copy is. Mention my name. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #731 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:30 pm Subject: Re: Pinout for 78-pin head connector bae_steve Offline Send Email P.S. I'm sure John French @ JRF Magnegics (973-579-5773) has it as well. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #732 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:58 pm Subject: Re: Pinout for 78-pin head connector richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Steve!!! It's coming in the fax RSN. Cheers, Richard At 03:28 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: Contact Chris or Tom Rappolt @ Amp Services (561-333-0335). They sent it to me a couple of years ago, but there's no tellin' where that copy is. Mention my name. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #733 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:33 pm Subject: RE: Pinout for 78-pin head connector ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..if someone will fax it to me, I'll make a PDF or a ASCII file of it for posting to anyone who might need it. (214) 379-1384 From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Thanks, Steve!!! It's coming in the fax RSN. Cheers, Richard At 03:28 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: Contact Chris or Tom Rappolt @ Amp Services (561-333-0335). They sent it to me a couple of years ago, but there's no tellin' where that copy is. Mention my name. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #734 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:45 pm Subject: RE: Pinout for 78-pin head connector richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, I need to make a few corrections and then I'll post it. Cheers, Richard At 04:33 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: ..if someone will fax it to me, I'll make a PDF or a ASCII file of it for posting to anyone who might need it. (214) 379-1384 From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Thanks, Steve!!! It's coming in the fax RSN. Cheers, Richard At 03:28 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: Contact Chris or Tom Rappolt @ Amp Services (561-333-0335). They sent it to me a couple of years ago, but there's no tellin' where that copy is. Mention my name. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #735 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:28 pm Subject: RE: Pinout for 78-pin head connector ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Very good. BTW, I'll check out headstacks tomorrow and let you know. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 4:45 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Hi, Scott, I need to make a few corrections and then I'll post it. Cheers, Richard At 04:33 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: ..if someone will fax it to me, I'll make a PDF or a ASCII file of it for posting to anyone who might need it. (214) 379-1384 From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Thanks, Steve!!! It's coming in the fax RSN. Cheers, Richard At 03:28 PM 8/12/2005, you wrote: Contact Chris or Tom Rappolt @ Amp Services (561-333-0335). They sent it to me a couple of years ago, but there's no tellin' where that copy is. Mention my name. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:39:43 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Pinout for 78-pin head connector Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click Here!">What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good. --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #736 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:16 pm Subject: Re: Pinout for 78-pin head connector ladewd Offline Send Email Glad you found one. I used to have it, but who knows if I still do. More than likely, it never made it out of Florida. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Has anyone found the pinout for the 78-pin APR-5000 head assembly connector? > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #737 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:03 pm Subject: Checking head wiring continuity richardlhess Offline Send Email As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm up to my eyeballs in making weird once-a-year-type head assemblies for the FrankenSony project. With four to seven tracks in a head assembly, I needed a quick way to "buzz" them out. I know we don't prefer ohmmeters. I have a Wavetek 27XT that has an inductance range. I used that to check continuity. To make sure it's to the right head, I carefully bring a piece of non-magnetized steel near the head gap and the inductance changes (no surprise). Anyway, in case any of you are trying to check head continuity and make sure it's wired correctly, perhaps you can use this method. Still, before aligning these things with one of Jay's magic tapes, I'm going to seriously degauss the entire assembly with my Hand-D-Mag or my bulk tape eraser (if I can find it). Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #738 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:12 pm Subject: Re: Checking head wiring continuity ladewd Offline Send Email Wow, call me careless, and I bet it comes from working in a company with beacoup heads available, but I always use an ohmmeter to check out heads and continutiy to the associated circuits. I haven't had one go bad on me yet. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm up to my eyeballs in making weird > once-a-year-type head assemblies for the FrankenSony project. > > With four to seven tracks in a head assembly, I needed a quick way to > "buzz" them out. I know we don't prefer ohmmeters. > > I have a Wavetek 27XT that has an inductance range. I used that to > check continuity. > > To make sure it's to the right head, I carefully bring a piece of > non-magnetized steel near the head gap and the inductance changes (no > surprise). > > Anyway, in case any of you are trying to check head continuity and > make sure it's wired correctly, perhaps you can use this method. > > Still, before aligning these things with one of Jay's magic tapes, > I'm going to seriously degauss the entire assembly with my Hand-D-Mag > or my bulk tape eraser (if I can find it). > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #739 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:32 pm Subject: Re: Re: Checking head wiring continuity richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, The folks on the Ampex list who also got this worry about these things--more from the perspective of magnetization of the head by the DC current of the ohmmeter. I think we've decided the ohmmeter probably won't magnetize the heads, but I thought I'd be careful. Too bad I still have to rewire one thing. Grr. I got five head assemblies wired today: (1) "receiver" for the slave APR in the Frankensony configuration - also has a 200 mil head for mono paper tapes (2) the JRF "elevator" with a 4-channel, 8-track head. (3) 4-channel, 4-track (4) two play heads: NAB cartridge 3-channel and TomCat MaxTrax from Pacific Recorders cartridge The NAB cartridge also plays the archival early 1950s 1/4-inch 3-channel Ampex 400 format that was used for 3-channel stereo demos (5) two play heads: 3- and 4-channel 1/2" As you know, I also have Full track mono, DIN stereo, and 2-track 1/2-inch for this machine as well as a very nice new (thanks) set of wideface heads. The only thing I don't have is a really good 3-channel 1/2-inch play head. I'd love to find an Applied Magnetics head in that format. Oh, and I'd love to find a 1" 4-channel. I don't know of anyone on this continent who has one. Cheers, Richard At 10:12 PM 8/13/2005, you wrote: >Wow, call me careless, and I bet it comes from working in a company >with beacoup heads available, but I always use an ohmmeter to check >out heads and continutiy to the associated circuits. I haven't had >one go bad on me yet. > >Cary Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #740 From: "Rick@..." Date: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:25 am Subject: Re: Re: Checking head wiring continuity allegrosound Offline Send Email Dvm, I hope. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hi, Cary, The folks on the Ampex list who also got this worry about these things--more from the perspective of magnetization of the head by the DC current of the ohmmeter. I think we've decided the ohmmeter probably won't magnetize the heads, but I thought I'd be careful. Too bad I still have to rewire one thing. Grr. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #741 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:31 pm Subject: Intro / 1" 4-channel machine (was Re: Checking head wiring continuity) a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi -- Guess it's time to come out of hiding. I was invited to join this list when Richard Hess made me a present of a late Sony APR5002/3 a little over a year ago. Great guy, isn't he? Since joining, I've enjoyed reading all of the listmembers' posts. This is a great list and there are some amazing people on it! And I really like the Sony machine. It's wonderfully gentle on tape and sounds good, too. My business uses professional analog tape recorders to make very high-quality analog-to-digital transfers -- but with the focus on *multitrack* tapes. There's a little overlap between what Richard does and my services. But, we're primarily birds-of-a-feather and enjoy helping and encouraging each other. Richard Hess wrote: > Oh, and I'd love to find a 1" 4-channel. I don't know of anyone on > this continent who has one. Yes you do! (That's OK, Richard -- I can't remember everything you can transfer, either!) Anyway, try here: http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx/a2dx_tech.html For those of you who enjoy analog multitrack recording, this should be a fun page to view. You'll have to scroll down a bit to find the 1" 4-track machine. Look for a fully restored Bridgeport Scully 284 1" 12-track. Amazingly, it came with a virtually new factory-built 1" 4-track head assembly. Because it enabled me to do multitrack transfers from two of the rarest formats -- 1" 12-track and 1" 4-track -- restoring this machine gave me the inspiration to expand my transfer lab to be able to support transfers from all of the professional multitrack formats and noise reduction systems. More recently, I've been working on adding all of the denser multitrack formats like 1/2" 8 & 16-track and 1" 24-track. Most are already on line (you wouldn't believe how many configurations of 1/2" 16-track there are) and the rest should be ready within a couple more weeks. If anyone cares to "talk shop" please feel free to call (phone number is on website), email or stop by for a visit (by appointment, please ). Thanks again to Richard for taking the initiative to start and moderate this list and for encouraging me to become a member. Cheers, -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #742 From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:07 pm Subject: New file uploaded to sony_apr sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Send Email Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the sony_apr group. File : /APR_Head_Connector_Wiring_22050814.pdf Uploaded by : richardlhess Description : Pinouts of the APR-5000 series head connector You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/files/APR_Head_Connector_Wiring_22050814.\ pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, richardlhess Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #743 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:35 pm Subject: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm finally doing some work on the FrankenSony! It is meeting/exceeding expectations. So far, I have used the 8-track 4-channel head assembly to transfer two 8-track cartridges out of cartridge AND am now using the 4-track 4-channel head assembly to transfer some 7.5 in/s 4-track client music tapes. The combination of high-frequency EQ and the Reproduce Gap Compensator adjustments allow me to get flat response within about 1dB to 20kHz off the MRL test tapes at -10 at 7.5 in/s and the same response out to about 12.5kHz or so at 3.75 in/s. I'm using Nortronics heads (the best available ones) that mount easily in the Woelke head mounts. Why did I do this? Well, outside of craziness, there were several reasons: (1) I didn't like the only readily available 4-channel machines either for price or performance issues. For performance or ease-of-alignment issues, I didn't like: -Ampex AG440 -Studer A807 -Any of the Teac machines didn't offer flexibility -Otari MTR-10/12 series (I had four of these, so I know from personal experience) For price issues, I ruled out -Studer A80 -Studer A820 -Ampex ATR-100 I had actually started using an Otari MTR-12 and then ran into oddities about headblocks, and the machine wouldn't align flat like the APRs or Studer A810s (2) I didn't like the tape handling on the MTR-12 all that much. (3) Investing long-term in a platform involves more at this point than one or two machines. It involves depth of spare parts in my own hoard. I had that in the APR (4) The APR was the only machine (other than the Studer A820 which is big bucks and parts are bigger bucks) that has memories for many head assemblies. Some of the later Otari machines might have this (MTR_15 or MTR-20) but I didn't see the need considering what I thought of the MTR-10/12. So, I went ahead and did it. I had John French make up five specialized head assemblies for me, and I wired them. (1) is the "receiver" for the passive machine - it also has a mono 200 mil play head for paper tape (2) is the 4-channel 4-track head assembly. It has a rotary switch so ch 2 of the active machine can be either track 2, 3, or 4 of the tape. You set it in track 3 for 4-channel use (3) 8-track, 4-channel head on elevator - this can accurately adjust height without changing azimuth. I can read any 21-mil swath of a tape with this head -- it has the same rotary switch (4) 3-track NAB cart (also for Ampex 400-3 1/4" tapes) and Pacific Recorders/Research cartridges (TomCat MaxTrax) (5) 3 and 4 track 1/2-inch tape All of these are set for the slow speed, except the 3-track 1/2-inch which is set for high speed. I will be re-doing two 4-track tapes I did for a client, some personal 4-track tapes (commercial release) and the 3-track Bill Cara 1950s Train Tape (historic Ampex demo). It's taken a little bit of juggling, but I can fit these all into the available registers, with only minor doubling up. I also have in my normal supply of APR heads: (6) NAB-Timecode for Left Machine high speed (7) NAB-Timecode for right machine high speed (8) NAB Timecode for either machine slow speed All NAB TImecodes are Woelke (9) Wideface high speed (Applied Magnetics) (10) Nortronics DIN Stereo high speed (11) FT mono Nortroncis high speed (I now also have a Woelke set, but probably won't mount it as the Nortronics do well) (12) 1/4 track high-end Nortronics stereo (low speed) (13) 1/2-inch 2-track Woelke High Speed I have one or two reasonable spare stacks and about four stacks for rebuilding. This is a long-term investment as I hope I'll have enough parts and pieces to keep going for 20+ years. So, now I have one platform for the bulk of my work, and I don't have a plethora of platforms. My other platforms are: Studer A810 (1) Timecode NAB (2) Timecode NAB (3) Full track mono (4) Full track mono (5) Butterfly DIN The following two are "some assembly required" (6) Neopilot head (7) Quarter-track stereo Studer A807 (1) 4-channel 1/4-inch switchable to two output channels (at head level) for tape prep. I also have an NAB assembly and a bunch of DIN Stereo play heads but this is an aux platform and not a primary restoration platform Sony APR-16 (1) 16-track 1" (2) 8-track 1" (3) 8-track 1/2" (4) 4-track 1/2" (Overlaps with FrankenSony) Much assembly required, but I have the head: (5) 16-track 1/2-inch But this begs the issue of Dolby C and Dolby S in this format as stand-alone processors aren't available. Some of my wishlist heads: (a) 4-channel 1-inch 100mH (b) 12-channel 1-inch 100mH (c) 3-channel 1/2-inch 100mH Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #744 From: "chris_goosman" Date: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:58 pm Subject: Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! chris_goosman Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Much assembly required, but I have the head: > (5) 16-track 1/2-inch > But this begs the issue of Dolby C and Dolby S in this format > as stand-alone processors aren't available. > Hi Richard, Nice reading about the FrankenSony. As far as Dolby C and S goes, isn't it about time someone wrote a digital filter for these? I think a Direct X plug in that I could use in SADiE would be great. Chris Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #745 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:23 pm Subject: Re: Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:58 PM 8/22/2005, chris_goosman wrote: >Nice reading about the FrankenSony. Thanks! It's been a fun project. >As far as Dolby C and S goes, >isn't it about time someone wrote a digital filter for these? I think >a Direct X plug in that I could use in SADiE would be great. I would LOVE Direct X plug-ins for Dolby A Dolby B Dolby C Dolby S Solby SR dbx I dbx II Telcom C4 Nakamichi HighCom II Burwen companders And...what about software decoders for PCM-F1, dbx 700, and a few of the other oddball digital formats that use VCRs as wide-bandwidth hosts. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #746 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:49 pm Subject: RE: Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Sounds like heaven... I wonder how the reference level matching might work..? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:23 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! At 04:58 PM 8/22/2005, chris_goosman wrote: >Nice reading about the FrankenSony. Thanks! It's been a fun project. >As far as Dolby C and S goes, >isn't it about time someone wrote a digital filter for these? I think >a Direct X plug in that I could use in SADiE would be great. I would LOVE Direct X plug-ins for Dolby A Dolby B Dolby C Dolby S Solby SR dbx I dbx II Telcom C4 Nakamichi HighCom II Burwen companders And...what about software decoders for PCM-F1, dbx 700, and a few of the other oddball digital formats that use VCRs as wide-bandwidth hosts. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #747 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:18 am Subject: Re: Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! eddieaudio Offline Send Email YEAH! I've always wanted to see noise reduction in Plug-in form. ec At 03:58 PM 8/22/2005, you wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > Much assembly required, but I have the head: > (5) 16-track 1/2-inch > But this begs the issue of Dolby C and Dolby S in this format > as stand-alone processors aren't available. > Hi Richard, Nice reading about the FrankenSony. As far as Dolby C and S goes, isn't it about time someone wrote a digital filter for these? I think a Direct X plug in that I could use in SADiE would be great. Chris YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #748 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:42 am Subject: Re: FrankenSony LIVES !!!! ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, Let's see some pictures! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > I'm finally doing some work on the FrankenSony! > > It is meeting/exceeding expectations. > > So far, I have used the 8-track 4-channel head assembly to transfer > two 8-track cartridges out of cartridge AND am now using the 4-track > 4-channel head assembly to transfer some 7.5 in/s 4-track client music tapes. > > The combination of high-frequency EQ and the Reproduce Gap > Compensator adjustments allow me to get flat response within about > 1dB to 20kHz off the MRL test tapes at -10 at 7.5 in/s and the same > response out to about 12.5kHz or so at 3.75 in/s. > > I'm using Nortronics heads (the best available ones) that mount > easily in the Woelke head mounts. > > Why did I do this? > > Well, outside of craziness, there were several reasons: > > (1) I didn't like the only readily available 4-channel machines > either for price or performance issues. > For performance or ease-of-alignment issues, I didn't like: > -Ampex AG440 > -Studer A807 > -Any of the Teac machines didn't offer flexibility > -Otari MTR-10/12 series (I had four of these, so I know from > personal experience) > For price issues, I ruled out > -Studer A80 > -Studer A820 > -Ampex ATR-100 > I had actually started using an Otari MTR-12 and then ran into > oddities about headblocks, and the machine wouldn't > align flat like the APRs or Studer A810s > > (2) I didn't like the tape handling on the MTR-12 all that much. > > (3) Investing long-term in a platform involves more at this point > than one or two machines. It involves depth of spare parts in my own > hoard. I had that > in the APR > > (4) The APR was the only machine (other than the Studer A820 which is > big bucks and parts are bigger bucks) that has memories for many > head assemblies. Some of the later Otari machines might have > this (MTR_15 or MTR-20) but I didn't see the need considering what > I thought of the MTR-10/12. > > So, I went ahead and did it. > > I had John French make up five specialized head assemblies for me, > and I wired them. > > (1) is the "receiver" for the passive machine - it also has a mono > 200 mil play head for paper tape > (2) is the 4-channel 4-track head assembly. It has a rotary switch so > ch 2 of the active machine can be > either track 2, 3, or 4 of the tape. You set it in track 3 for > 4-channel use > (3) 8-track, 4-channel head on elevator - this can accurately adjust > height without changing azimuth. > I can read any 21-mil swath of a tape with this head -- it has > the same rotary switch > (4) 3-track NAB cart (also for Ampex 400-3 1/4" tapes) and Pacific > Recorders/Research cartridges (TomCat MaxTrax) > (5) 3 and 4 track 1/2-inch tape > > All of these are set for the slow speed, except the 3-track 1/2-inch > which is set for high speed. > > I will be re-doing two 4-track tapes I did for a client, some > personal 4-track tapes (commercial release) and the 3-track Bill Cara > 1950s Train Tape (historic Ampex demo). > > It's taken a little bit of juggling, but I can fit these all into the > available registers, with only minor doubling up. > > I also have in my normal supply of APR heads: > (6) NAB-Timecode for Left Machine high speed > (7) NAB-Timecode for right machine high speed > (8) NAB Timecode for either machine slow speed > All NAB TImecodes are Woelke > (9) Wideface high speed (Applied Magnetics) > (10) Nortronics DIN Stereo high speed > (11) FT mono Nortroncis high speed (I now also have a Woelke set, > but probably won't mount it as the Nortronics do well) > (12) 1/4 track high-end Nortronics stereo (low speed) > (13) 1/2-inch 2-track Woelke High Speed > > I have one or two reasonable spare stacks and about four stacks for > rebuilding. This is a long-term investment as I hope I'll have enough > parts and pieces to keep going for 20+ years. > > So, now I have one platform for the bulk of my work, and I don't have > a plethora of platforms. > > My other platforms are: > > Studer A810 > (1) Timecode NAB > (2) Timecode NAB > (3) Full track mono > (4) Full track mono > (5) Butterfly DIN > The following two are "some assembly required" > (6) Neopilot head > (7) Quarter-track stereo > > Studer A807 > (1) 4-channel 1/4-inch switchable to two output channels (at head > level) for tape prep. > I also have an NAB assembly and a bunch of DIN Stereo play heads > but this is an aux platform and not a primary restoration platform > > Sony APR-16 > (1) 16-track 1" > (2) 8-track 1" > (3) 8-track 1/2" > (4) 4-track 1/2" (Overlaps with FrankenSony) > Much assembly required, but I have the head: > (5) 16-track 1/2-inch > But this begs the issue of Dolby C and Dolby S in this format > as stand-alone processors aren't available. > > Some of my wishlist heads: > (a) 4-channel 1-inch 100mH > (b) 12-channel 1-inch 100mH > (c) 3-channel 1/2-inch 100mH > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@r... > Vignettes > Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #749 From: "wm4615321" Date: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:35 pm Subject: jh110b manual wm4615321 Offline Send Email I need service manual for jh110b[1/2 inch 4 track.] please help me. thanks. william wang Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #750 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:57 pm Subject: Re: jh110b manual eddieaudio Offline Send Email I think I have one of these. Though I don't know what it's worth... Any one care to "suggest" the current street value? ec At 09:35 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: I need service manual for jh110b[1/2 inch 4 track.] please help me. thanks. william wang SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #751 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:18 pm Subject: Re: jh110b manual bae_steve Offline Send Email Randy (Blevinsaudio.com) charges $150.00 for a (great) hardbound copy. You need to specify A B, or C, and any particulars for the different pcb's of ea. and between ea. generation.....i.e. -o611 or -o639 processor pcb, 4 xstr or 5 xstr ILD,. SS -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:57:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] jh110b manual I think I have one of these. Though I don't know what it's worth... Any one care to "suggest" the current street value? ec At 09:35 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: I need service manual for jh110b[1/2 inch 4 track.] please help me. thanks. william wang SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #752 From: "Lars Ekman" Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:52 am Subject: JH24 Autolocator III problem larsxe Offline Send Email Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #753 From: "Lars Ekman" Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:09 am Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem larsxe Offline Send Email I should perhaps add that the remote is problem free. The storing, recalling, TVI and counter on the Autolocator work as they should as well. Thanks for any help, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Lars Ekman Skickat: to 2005-09-22 08:52 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #754 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:54 am Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email On any of the JH-24/JH-110 products, do no further troubleshooting until you have cleaned all the molex connectors within an inch of their lives. No, you didn't miss anything. I would guess either myself or Steve Sadler are the best ones to ask about this problem. There are several revisions (at least, but two major ones) that stick in my mind. That would be important to know when answering questions. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lars Ekman Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:09 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem I should perhaps add that the remote is problem free. The storing, recalling, TVI and counter on the Autolocator work as they should as well. Thanks for any help, /Lars Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Lars Ekman Skickat: to 2005-09-22 08:52 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #755 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:15 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem mooseaudio Offline Send Email I?m no expert tech, but after five years of owning a JH-24 I can play one on the internet! It could be a number of things, but I'd start by cleaning the Cinch Jones plugs (the three that plug into the back of the deck) and exercising those contacts. Get some Deoxit, ProGold or other contact cleaner and have at it. BTW, DO NOT pull or replace those connections while the deck is powered up!!!!!! Save the pyrotechnics for the live show!!! I?d also pop the locater apart and look for a loose Molex connector, at the very least pull and reseat all that you can see. If the opamps are socketed I?d push all of them back down so they?re sitting firmly in place. If you pop the deck plate up and look at the cards mounted under there, you?ll see a card all the way on the right with a red (or couple) LED on it. That?s the PLL card or Phase Lock Loop. One of the IC?s on there generates a 19kHz tone that feeds the ALIII and helps to communicate the decks transport logic, telling it when to speed up, slow down and brake while locating etc. It?s possible that the chain is either broken or damaged and that signal isn?t hitting the ALIII. At one point I had a similar problem with locating and Steve Sadler helped me trouble shoot it, but I still had to call a tech in to get it fixed. Randy & Steve really are the guys when it comes to MCI gear, they?ve probably forgotten more then most people have ever learned. How?s the Vari-speed working? Is it stable or seriously wonky? _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #756 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:05 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem bae_steve Offline Send Email Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #757 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:45 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #758 From: "Lars Ekman" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:11 am Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem larsxe Offline Send Email Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #759 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:06 am Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ... I wouldn't bother with the PLL card, your problem lies elsewhere I think. The date information is enough to imply the ALIII revision, thanks. The connectors are always the best place to start. (and the easiest !)Don't forget all those molex connectors on the analogue torque board. As for later machine having fewer problems, I think really what you are talking about is those deadly 'red' IC sockets that plagued those machines. They are the pits. All the other connectors are about the same. I can't say I ever saw much problem with the jones plugs on the ALIII, although sometimes the ones on the two PSU units gave intermittent problems. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lars Ekman Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:11 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #760 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:22 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem mooseaudio Offline Send Email No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #761 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:21 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email There are many grades of Molex connector and may ways to design redundancy into systems. I would expect NASA used higher quality connectors than MCI did and, with the exception of the shuttle, NASA is not sending 20 ~ 30 year old craft to the moon. At 11:22 AM 9/23/2005, you wrote: No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #762 From: mooseaudio@... Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:41 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem mooseaudio Offline Send Email Truth...but it still left one hell of an impression! _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:21:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem There are many grades of Molex connector and may ways to design redundancy into systems. I would expect NASA used higher quality connectors than MCI did and, with the exception of the shuttle, NASA is not sending 20 ~ 30 year old craft to the moon. At 11:22 AM 9/23/2005, you wrote: No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #763 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:00 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email There are gold plated molex connectors that are direct replacements that can be installed as well. I've had very good luck with these, particularly in such spots as the analogue torque board, motor drivers, and PLL boards. What a hassle in any case. The machine's reliability was pretty poor in damp or polluted environments, but not bad at all in dry clean ones. Any of the machines I had to work with over the years that got the red IC sockets replaced with machine pin types and had the molex connectors changed out for gold ones proved to be very reliable indeed. The only other dicey area was the deck plates, if your were foolish enough to have allowed large temperature variations to occur...or of course a poor tech working on tape path. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooseaudio@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:22 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #764 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:53 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email Molex does make a tri-furcated (three-point contact) female connector. These also help a great deal, hassle though they may be. At 12:00 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: There are gold plated molex connectors that are direct replacements that can be installed as well. I've had very good luck with these, particularly in such spots as the analogue torque board, motor drivers, and PLL boards. What a hassle in any case. The machine's reliability was pretty poor in damp or polluted environments, but not bad at all in dry clean ones. Any of the machines I had to work with over the years that got the red IC sockets replaced with machine pin types and had the molex connectors changed out for gold ones proved to be very reliable indeed. The only other dicey area was the deck plates, if your were foolish enough to have allowed large temperature variations to occur...or of course a poor tech working on tape path. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooseaudio@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:22 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #765 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:16 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem masteringman... Offline Send Email J. 'Moose' Kahrs: > No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I was the service guy for MCI equipment during about 15 years here in Sweden when Tal & Ton was the Swedish agent for MCI which went up to the time that Sony bought MCI. MCI machines sold here in Sweden does not seem to have the Molex problem in my experience. I have spoken to Dave Dearden and Bill Dyer of MCI England during several visits to London way back then together with John A. Shepherd, Service Manager, and Gregg Lamping of MCI at the factory in 1979 when I was visiting the factory in Ft. Lauderdale and the message was that the problems with the Molexes was fixed in 1978 or so. Anyway I must have seen at least 15 JH114 and JH24s during the past 30 years and none have had any Molexitis. The latest JH 24 that I had my hands on was 2 years ago and it was bought from LA, USA and was a wreck with 6 different card revisions in the drawers with rectifiers melting and series pass transistors going open together with burning bypass Tantalums on bias and amp cards due to shorts upon powering up which took me a few weeks to sort out. Still no problems whatsoever with the Molexes in this machine. The S/N is 0682 and the date code is 8-20-80 on this JH24. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #766 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:12 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email environment seems to play a major role in how these or any other machines hold up. At 12:16 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: J. 'Moose' Kahrs: > No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I was the service guy for MCI equipment during about 15 years here in Sweden when Tal & Ton was the Swedish agent for MCI which went up to the time that Sony bought MCI. MCI machines sold here in Sweden does not seem to have the Molex problem in my experience. I have spoken to Dave Dearden and Bill Dyer of MCI England during several visits to London way back then together with John A. Shepherd, Service Manager, and Gregg Lamping of MCI at the factory in 1979 when I was visiting the factory in Ft. Lauderdale and the message was that the problems with the Molexes was fixed in 1978 or so. Anyway I must have seen at least 15 JH114 and JH24s during the past 30 years and none have had any Molexitis. The latest JH 24 that I had my hands on was 2 years ago and it was bought from LA, USA and was a wreck with 6 different card revisions in the drawers with rectifiers melting and series pass transistors going open together with burning bypass Tantalums on bias and amp cards due to shorts upon powering up which took me a few weeks to sort out. Still no problems whatsoever with the Molexes in this machine. The S/N is 0682 and the date code is 8-20-80 on this JH24. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #767 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:26 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Yes. The machines had great potential despite some design shortcomings, but the connectors gave them a truly rotten reputation for being unreliable. Lars, ANY time you have a transport problem with these machines, don't even bother trying to troubleshoot it until the molex connectors have been cleaned on the transport boards. 90+ percent of the time the problem will vanish, and tracing down a semi conducting molex pin is just about the most frustrating exercise on the planet. The same is true for any adjustments to the torque board or PLL board.... clean first, adjust 2nd. Be careful replugging the torque board back on...it is easy to get the top part plugged back on one molex pin offset to one side. Having said all this, for rock and similar types of music it has a great punchy sound with a ton of headroom in the electronics. A bit noisy, particularly in 'cue' mode, and the 30 ips low end is a bit weak, but still a very viable machine of the type and era. Good luck. Contact me if I can help further. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Molex does make a tri-furcated (three-point contact) female connector. These also help a great deal, hassle though they may be. At 12:00 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: There are gold plated molex connectors that are direct replacements that can be installed as well. I've had very good luck with these, particularly in such spots as the analogue torque board, motor drivers, and PLL boards. What a hassle in any case. The machine's reliability was pretty poor in damp or polluted environments, but not bad at all in dry clean ones. Any of the machines I had to work with over the years that got the red IC sockets replaced with machine pin types and had the molex connectors changed out for gold ones proved to be very reliable indeed. The only other dicey area was the deck plates, if your were foolish enough to have allowed large temperature variations to occur...or of course a poor tech working on tape path. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooseaudio@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:22 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #768 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:43 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Interesting. I have worked with dozens of the machines and worked at the factory as well managing Quality assurance. If the molex difficulties were ever solved, I never saw it. Needless to say, the factory isn't going to admit much, there was a decided stonewalling on this issue. It made me very angry at the time, since the customer field complaints were everywhere.. Myself, I never saw any let up in the problems in the transport from the molex connectors, but it really made a difference where / what conditions the machine was kept and used in. In dry / clean conditions where the machine was on continuously (drove out any moisture) this wasn't a problem. For everyone else....? I had to make several trips to the Sony/UK operation to deal with complaints about the machines even from them having erratic operation and missing spec. It is true that once you had a molex problem, people used to clean the connectors using poor methods that in the long term made things much worse. (using erasers to buff them, and the erasers having sulfur content, buffing off the tin plating, slightly over-aggressive cleaning solutions, etc.) The red IC sockets were a known problem at the factory. They were just plain cheap, and after a while even the IC pins plugged into them turned black. Really terrible, particularly on the torque boards, where millivolt signal were attempting to run through them.... This was at its worst just before Sony took over, as Jeep was trying to get as many machines out the door a possible as cheaply as possible, so as to look better to Sony. Some of that was taken care of after Sony took them, but the molex problem remained. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goran Finnberg Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 12:16 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem J. 'Moose' Kahrs: > No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I was the service guy for MCI equipment during about 15 years here in Sweden when Tal & Ton was the Swedish agent for MCI which went up to the time that Sony bought MCI. MCI machines sold here in Sweden does not seem to have the Molex problem in my experience. I have spoken to Dave Dearden and Bill Dyer of MCI England during several visits to London way back then together with John A. Shepherd, Service Manager, and Gregg Lamping of MCI at the factory in 1979 when I was visiting the factory in Ft. Lauderdale and the message was that the problems with the Molexes was fixed in 1978 or so. Anyway I must have seen at least 15 JH114 and JH24s during the past 30 years and none have had any Molexitis. The latest JH 24 that I had my hands on was 2 years ago and it was bought from LA, USA and was a wreck with 6 different card revisions in the drawers with rectifiers melting and series pass transistors going open together with burning bypass Tantalums on bias and amp cards due to shorts upon powering up which took me a few weeks to sort out. Still no problems whatsoever with the Molexes in this machine. The S/N is 0682 and the date code is 8-20-80 on this JH24. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #769 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:48 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem masteringman... Offline Send Email Eddie Ciletti: > environment seems to play a major role in how > these or any other machines hold up. That´s exactly my point. Dave Dearden, MCI England, pointed out to me that when studios in London started to have persons smoking dope then the fumes was literally eating the copper traces on the various PCBs inside the machine. I have been shown such PCBs and they simply are no more. Also the Sauna like heat and dampness that one can experience in Ft. Lauderdale just doesn´t excist here in Sweden. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #770 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:45 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email Exactly!!! At 12:48 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: Eddie Ciletti: > environment seems to play a major role in how > these or any other machines hold up. That´s exactly my point. Dave Dearden, MCI England, pointed out to me that when studios in London started to have persons smoking dope then the fumes was literally eating the copper traces on the various PCBs inside the machine. I have been shown such PCBs and they simply are no more. Also the Sauna like heat and dampness that one can experience in Ft. Lauderdale just doesn´t excist here in Sweden. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #771 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:52 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem masteringman... Offline Send Email Scott Phillips: > Interesting. I have worked with dozens of the machines > and worked at the factory as well managing Quality > assurance. If the molex difficulties were ever solved, > I never saw it. Needless to say, the factory isn't going > to admit much, there was a decided stonewalling on this issue. Hmmm. John Shepherd admitted that they´d had problems with the soldering baths so batches of cards had gone out with not enough heat to get the Molexes heated enough so they were in fact all sent out with cold joints where Molex was soldered to PCB. As I said the line I was told is that in about 1978 this was fixed. > It made me very angry at the time, since the customer field complaints were everywhere.. Thanks for caring! > Myself, I never saw any let up in the problems in the > transport from the molex connectors, but it really made > a difference where / what conditions the machine was kept > and used in. In dry / clean conditions where the machine > was on continuously (drove out any moisture) this > wasn't a problem. For everyone else....? I agree 100 percent that the environment plays a big role no reservations whatsoever. This goes for anything man made in fact. > It is true that once you had a molex problem, people > used to clean the connectors using poor methods that > in the long term made things much worse. (using erasers > to buff them, and the erasers having sulfur content, > buffing off the tin plating, slightly over-aggressive > cleaning solutions, etc.) In my opinon you have to chose your cleaning agents with care. Use the wrong one and you get even more problems. Also in many cases there where no real fault finding going on instead people just assumed that there "MIGHT" be a problem with the Molexes when in fact there was something else going on. And by spraying a lot of oily cleaners on the Molexes you got secondary problems showing up later on. > The red IC sockets were a known problem at the factory. Agreed but even then I´ve seen most machines with them having no problems at all here in Sweden. BTW, the machine from LA had all red IC sockets but it still works no problems at all 2 years later on from that cause. > and after a while even the > IC pins plugged into them turned black. I´ve seen this too, but I think the culprit has more to do with the pin material of the ICs of that time, since the pins of my Texas TL071, 072, 074, 741s etc ALL oxidise and turn black. This includes every type of IC chip from Texas at that time......late 70s early 80s. I have at least a few hundred ICs left from that time still, bought new back then from the reseller here in Sweden......and the pins are nearly black in every case looked at. What I have seen is that in SOME cases then the female contact force has been weak, since the contact force of the Molexes has been low in that PARTICULAR shipment. Studio Fredman here in Goteborg have a late JH24 that I´ve serviced during some 10 years and it has performed almost perfectly well during this time. http://www.studiofredman.com/ http://www.studiofredman.com/equipment.html The force trying to remove any of the Molex connected cards below the deck on this JH24 is so great that it is almost impossible to do so without turning slightly blue in the face. :-) Also from 1974 to 1989 I used and serviced one JH114 from 74 to 81 and in 1981 this was sold and a MCIJH600 and JH24 was bought and this one too was working flawlessly up to my departure from this particular facility in 1989. What I´ve seen on these two machines that was causing problems is the DC tachos, brushes, and the pressure roller plunger getting so hot during overdubs, needing about ten to twelve hours constant use, so the force against the capstan got to low so the transport didn´t hold speed. BTW, at the present moment I´m recapping a Integrated Power Design Switch Mode power supply that is used in all versions of external boxes that makes a Sonic Solutions USP hard disk editing system, DAW, connect to the outside word. I have 8 different boxes on 3 systems and the Molexes on the + 8V supply, +8V and return are in many cases gone open due to low contact pressure from the female part. The plastic housing has gone brown in fact. The supply is rated at 8V/2A this being regulated to +5V by 7805 regulators on the logic board. So in this case the heat from the ohmic connection, W = RI squared, has softened the contact pressure and finally opened the connection in this case. Easily fixed indeed. So I do believe that the Molexes will in many cases work with zero problems although given various environmental problems can indeed go bad on the user if the contact pressure is high then it seems to me that they will work even then in my experience. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #772 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:06 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:52 PM 9/23/2005, Goran Finnberg wrote: >John Shepherd admitted that they´d had problems with the soldering baths >so batches of cards had gone out with not enough heat to get the Molexes >heated enough so they were in fact all sent out with cold joints where >Molex was soldered to PCB. Thanks, Goran! As I was reading this thread, I was thinking that I had heard that it had more to do with the pins-to-PCB interface than the pin-to-pin interface. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #773 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:59 pm Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem bae_steve Offline Send Email This whole conversation is typical of all the rubish I hear from all the unknowing, assuming, shotgunners out there. The gold molex' are no different than the tin for connection problems; the problem is insufficient pressure contact: hold the pcb up to a light and look inside the connector. If you can see light between the pin and the connector wall on the contact side of the pin, the pin has been compressed and needs to be removed, opened up, and re-inserted. On a torque board there are 41 such contact points, and only 1, or 2, or 3 may have a problem. Go ahead and solder the daughter boards to the mother board. But don't complain when a cap or diode goes bad. The red sockets are not the problem, it's the black ones that temporarily replaced them before the Augats were used, and the oxidized IC pins. The 8155 puts out 3 (-0639), or 5 (-0611)speed enables, and a direction command. The direction command (Hi/Lo) goes to two op-amps in the LM324 w/ common reference. Hi makes one go lo, and a lo makes the other go lo. These two enables turn on the "forward" fet, or the "rewind" fet. The speed voltage is then passed through one or the other of these fets into two more op-amps one of which gives a +Vdc out to IC 17 (Analog Velocity) on the torque board, the other inverts the output to negative. IC 17 must swing hi/lo for the locate to go fwd/rwd in locate mode. This analog dc voltage replaces the +/- 15 Volt reference to the fast pre-amp. SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:26:11 -0500 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Yes. The machines had great potential despite some design shortcomings, but the connectors gave them a truly rotten reputation for being unreliable. Lars, ANY time you have a transport problem with these machines, don't even bother trying to troubleshoot it until the molex connectors have been cleaned on the transport boards. 90+ percent of the time the problem will vanish, and tracing down a semi conducting molex pin is just about the most frustrating exercise on the planet. The same is true for any adjustments to the torque board or PLL board.... clean first, adjust 2nd. Be careful replugging the torque board back on...it is easy to get the top part plugged back on one molex pin offset to one side. Having said all this, for rock and similar types of music it has a great punchy sound with a ton of headroom in the electronics. A bit noisy, particularly in 'cue' mode, and the 30 ips low end is a bit weak, but still a very viable machine of the type and era. Good luck. Contact me if I can help further. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Molex does make a tri-furcated (three-point contact) female connector. These also help a great deal, hassle though they may be. At 12:00 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: There are gold plated molex connectors that are direct replacements that can be installed as well. I've had very good luck with these, particularly in such spots as the analogue torque board, motor drivers, and PLL boards. What a hassle in any case. The machine's reliability was pretty poor in damp or polluted environments, but not bad at all in dry clean ones. Any of the machines I had to work with over the years that got the red IC sockets replaced with machine pin types and had the molex connectors changed out for gold ones proved to be very reliable indeed. The only other dicey area was the deck plates, if your were foolish enough to have allowed large temperature variations to occur...or of course a poor tech working on tape path. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooseaudio@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:22 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #774 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:15 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Ah, yes, the cold solder problem. That is indeed a separate issue. That was taken care of. I was hired in from the studio industries into Sony at the time because having had to use and service these machines at a major studio for years, I 'knew where the bodies were buried', so to speak. I was greatly frustrated by the lack of appreciation in the factory about how disruptive the problems were, how little it would have taken to fix most of them, and basically treating customers (sometimes very large ones) as if they were idiots by telling them that 'no one else has any problem like that'. Sooner or later, word DOES get around.. :>) In any case, when the APR5000's were being designed I headed the QA of the prototype designs and ran the factory QA department. There at least I was allowed to make a difference. The packaging size wasn't one of them, neither were some of the serviceability issues, but at least they kept stable alignments with temperature changes (the prototypes didn't) and the deck plates were decent. Some of the mechanical design was done by second-string Japanese engineers (Carey, remember Tac ?) and it shows, but they were still far better than the JH110. At least with these designs, I helped head off a repeat of at least some of the more bone-headed ideas. Molexes were on my list of thanks, but no thanks. The APR-24 ended up being not-that loosely based on the 5000's, and that was a good thing. I have certainly seen the tach issues, although a very careful disassembly and cleaning and/or brush replacement cures that. It does 'take some miles' for that to show up. Can't say I had much problem with the pinchroller solenoid heating if the correct clearances were set on them, but the shield solenoid was a different matter. That was something that came up over and over even when pretty new. Other than the need to keep the delrin guide clean and the dashpot set right, the only other thing that really seemed to help was deburring and buffing the end of the 'stop' screw to gently round it off. That always seemed to lead to much more consistent performance. The things sure did get white hot though. You touch on the other area that really is all the difference... having the service done by qualified, experienced technicians. I've seen far more damage done by hack service work than anything the machine ever does wrong. A few years ago a customer in another state called with JH24 that was spilling tape. Since I could not make the trip then due to prior commitments, they got a service company from Denver to service the machine. A week later I got a call from them in a panic. The other company had a tech work for two days on the machine, and while it *sort of* worked, it was now breaking tape. I flew out to look at it, and after about 5 seconds of watching it spool tape I shut it off. Every single mechanical and electrical adjustment on the machine had been set incorrectly and to extremes. Starting from scratch, I found that the difficulty they had from the start was a $3 voltage regulator in the transport, and that the tech had tried to 'compensate' for that. What would have been a very cheap repair became very expensive by the time I'd done a full, careful transport alignment. Why ? Because he didn't seem to know about using a multimeter to check the rails first. Duh.... Card swapping ? Groan ! I've numbered the cards on most of my old customer's machines so that they tend to stay where they belong. If they don't, well we all know the reports of 'it was channel 24 making a popping noise last week... but I heard channel 11 doing that too this week. Can you fix *them* ' ? Same with a lot of the molex issues...I see many that have the plastic green in color from using questionable cleaners, and by that time you ARE going to have your hands full.. :>) I'd still (at least stateside) stick with a good gentle through cleaning of the connectors when looking for transport problems, but mostly because I just feel I need to eliminate that from the mix. I do admit that I tend to lift slightly on the torque board while the problem is in evidence. If I see thing change a bunch, then the molexes are my next stop because I just hate chasing my own tail..... :>) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goran Finnberg Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:52 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Scott Phillips: > Interesting. I have worked with dozens of the machines > and worked at the factory as well managing Quality > assurance. If the molex difficulties were ever solved, > I never saw it. Needless to say, the factory isn't going > to admit much, there was a decided stonewalling on this issue. Hmmm. John Shepherd admitted that they´d had problems with the soldering baths so batches of cards had gone out with not enough heat to get the Molexes heated enough so they were in fact all sent out with cold joints where Molex was soldered to PCB. As I said the line I was told is that in about 1978 this was fixed. > It made me very angry at the time, since the customer field complaints were everywhere.. Thanks for caring! > Myself, I never saw any let up in the problems in the > transport from the molex connectors, but it really made > a difference where / what conditions the machine was kept > and used in. In dry / clean conditions where the machine > was on continuously (drove out any moisture) this > wasn't a problem. For everyone else....? I agree 100 percent that the environment plays a big role no reservations whatsoever. This goes for anything man made in fact. > It is true that once you had a molex problem, people > used to clean the connectors using poor methods that > in the long term made things much worse. (using erasers > to buff them, and the erasers having sulfur content, > buffing off the tin plating, slightly over-aggressive > cleaning solutions, etc.) In my opinon you have to chose your cleaning agents with care. Use the wrong one and you get even more problems. Also in many cases there where no real fault finding going on instead people just assumed that there "MIGHT" be a problem with the Molexes when in fact there was something else going on. And by spraying a lot of oily cleaners on the Molexes you got secondary problems showing up later on. > The red IC sockets were a known problem at the factory. Agreed but even then I´ve seen most machines with them having no problems at all here in Sweden. BTW, the machine from LA had all red IC sockets but it still works no problems at all 2 years later on from that cause. > and after a while even the > IC pins plugged into them turned black. I´ve seen this too, but I think the culprit has more to do with the pin material of the ICs of that time, since the pins of my Texas TL071, 072, 074, 741s etc ALL oxidise and turn black. This includes every type of IC chip from Texas at that time......late 70s early 80s. I have at least a few hundred ICs left from that time still, bought new back then from the reseller here in Sweden......and the pins are nearly black in every case looked at. What I have seen is that in SOME cases then the female contact force has been weak, since the contact force of the Molexes has been low in that PARTICULAR shipment. Studio Fredman here in Goteborg have a late JH24 that I´ve serviced during some 10 years and it has performed almost perfectly well during this time. http://www.studiofredman.com/ http://www.studiofredman.com/equipment.html The force trying to remove any of the Molex connected cards below the deck on this JH24 is so great that it is almost impossible to do so without turning slightly blue in the face. :-) Also from 1974 to 1989 I used and serviced one JH114 from 74 to 81 and in 1981 this was sold and a MCIJH600 and JH24 was bought and this one too was working flawlessly up to my departure from this particular facility in 1989. What I´ve seen on these two machines that was causing problems is the DC tachos, brushes, and the pressure roller plunger getting so hot during overdubs, needing about ten to twelve hours constant use, so the force against the capstan got to low so the transport didn´t hold speed. BTW, at the present moment I´m recapping a Integrated Power Design Switch Mode power supply that is used in all versions of external boxes that makes a Sonic Solutions USP hard disk editing system, DAW, connect to the outside word. I have 8 different boxes on 3 systems and the Molexes on the + 8V supply, +8V and return are in many cases gone open due to low contact pressure from the female part. The plastic housing has gone brown in fact. The supply is rated at 8V/2A this being regulated to +5V by 7805 regulators on the logic board. So in this case the heat from the ohmic connection, W = RI squared, has softened the contact pressure and finally opened the connection in this case. Easily fixed indeed. So I do believe that the Molexes will in many cases work with zero problems although given various environmental problems can indeed go bad on the user if the contact pressure is high then it seems to me that they will work even then in my experience. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #775 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:19 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email That was true, Richard. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem At 02:52 PM 9/23/2005, Goran Finnberg wrote: >John Shepherd admitted that they´d had problems with the soldering baths >so batches of cards had gone out with not enough heat to get the Molexes >heated enough so they were in fact all sent out with cold joints where >Molex was soldered to PCB. Thanks, Goran! As I was reading this thread, I was thinking that I had heard that it had more to do with the pins-to-PCB interface than the pin-to-pin interface. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #776 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:40 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You have a good point Steve, although it still goes back to not being a good connector choice to begin with. The connector design is just poor for this situation. The gold ones have worked better for me I think because 1.) A new connector will have better contact pressure that the old one and 2.) Because there is much less chance of a connection problem due to oxidation, the connectors are not removed/reinserted with the extreme regularity as the old ones looking for problems. For me this is just eliminating one more source of possible problems. If I see a female molex with poor spring tension, I'm going to replace it with a new one, not rebend an old one. Labor is more expensive than the connector, particularly if it ends up revisited later. I have always felt that once the oxidation problems showed up, that the large number insertion/removals by people helped wipe out the contact spring tension. Just my opinion, mind you. Your point is valid to be sure... no point in cleaning a defective connector, it should be repaired or replaced. I guess I had seen more difficulties with the red sockets, although I do remember the short run of lousy black sockets. Amazing how many years these machines were manufactured, isn't it ? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem This whole conversation is typical of all the rubish I hear from all the unknowing, assuming, shotgunners out there. The gold molex' are no different than the tin for connection problems; the problem is insufficient pressure contact: hold the pcb up to a light and look inside the connector. If you can see light between the pin and the connector wall on the contact side of the pin, the pin has been compressed and needs to be removed, opened up, and re-inserted. On a torque board there are 41 such contact points, and only 1, or 2, or 3 may have a problem. Go ahead and solder the daughter boards to the mother board. But don't complain when a cap or diode goes bad. The red sockets are not the problem, it's the black ones that temporarily replaced them before the Augats were used, and the oxidized IC pins. The 8155 puts out 3 (-0639), or 5 (-0611)speed enables, and a direction command. The direction command (Hi/Lo) goes to two op-amps in the LM324 w/ common reference. Hi makes one go lo, and a lo makes the other go lo. These two enables turn on the "forward" fet, or the "rewind" fet. The speed voltage is then passed through one or the other of these fets into two more op-amps one of which gives a +Vdc out to IC 17 (Analog Velocity) on the torque board, the other inverts the output to negative. IC 17 must swing hi/lo for the locate to go fwd/rwd in locate mode. This analog dc voltage replaces the +/- 15 Volt reference to the fast pre-amp. SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:26:11 -0500 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Yes. The machines had great potential despite some design shortcomings, but the connectors gave them a truly rotten reputation for being unreliable. Lars, ANY time you have a transport problem with these machines, don't even bother trying to troubleshoot it until the molex connectors have been cleaned on the transport boards. 90+ percent of the time the problem will vanish, and tracing down a semi conducting molex pin is just about the most frustrating exercise on the planet. The same is true for any adjustments to the torque board or PLL board.... clean first, adjust 2nd. Be careful replugging the torque board back on...it is easy to get the top part plugged back on one molex pin offset to one side. Having said all this, for rock and similar types of music it has a great punchy sound with a ton of headroom in the electronics. A bit noisy, particularly in 'cue' mode, and the 30 ips low end is a bit weak, but still a very viable machine of the type and era. Good luck. Contact me if I can help further. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Molex does make a tri-furcated (three-point contact) female connector. These also help a great deal, hassle though they may be. At 12:00 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: There are gold plated molex connectors that are direct replacements that can be installed as well. I've had very good luck with these, particularly in such spots as the analogue torque board, motor drivers, and PLL boards. What a hassle in any case. The machine's reliability was pretty poor in damp or polluted environments, but not bad at all in dry clean ones. Any of the machines I had to work with over the years that got the red IC sockets replaced with machine pin types and had the molex connectors changed out for gold ones proved to be very reliable indeed. The only other dicey area was the deck plates, if your were foolish enough to have allowed large temperature variations to occur...or of course a poor tech working on tape path. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mooseaudio@... Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:22 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem No, Molex connectors still suck like a Hoover! I went to the Smithsonian museum about a year ago and saw the space capsules with all the Molex connectors in there...it's nothing short of a miracle that people rode into outer space on those and lived to tell about it!!! The best thing to do is also the most labor intensive...remove the Molex's and hard solder everything into place. Short of that, dielectric grease (aka spark plug grease) will help them to make better electrical contact, but that still isn't as solid as hard wiring them. _______________________ J. 'Moose' Kahrs independent mixer/producer audio engineer 1.201.674.1308 www.mooseaudio.net ~ under construction -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:11:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Thank you so much for all your replies! Next time I visit the machine I will clean the connectors from the Autolocator/remote and with deoxidizer. I will also have a go at the molex connectors and re-seat any socketed ICs in the ALIII and the IC 17 on the analog torque board. I will also look into the PLL card, but I don't know how much good I can do in there by myself. After that, I guess I should replace all the relevant ICs? The vari-speed is working good. But I don't think I checked it from the remote, only directly on the machine. I will check up exactly what revision I have of the AL III. I do know that the machine is made in the third quarter of 1987. Another question: Has anyone used Stabilant 22 to increase reliability of the molex connectors, rather than replacing them? I have read that late-make machines shouldn't have as many problems with the molexes -- is this true? Thanks so much again, /Lars ________________________________ Från: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com genom Scott Phillips Skickat: to 2005-09-22 20:45 Till: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Ämne: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Steve, I gathered the tape counter was working OK. My recollection was the most common problem from the 8155 was that locate / yoyo functions just didn't work, as opposed to taking off in one direction..what do you think ? Since he gets both FF and RWD lights on, we know that it 'believes' it is in locate mode. (Lars, if you don't already know this, a JH24 should light both RWD/FF lamps at the same time while in locate mode normally) I have seen the LM324 take a walk, as well as something IC-17 related on the analog torque board do something like this. And of course, the every present molex connectors.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:06 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Does it count forward (up) and backward (down)? If so, it's not motion sense. Could be a FET, LM324, or 8155 on the AL III processor pcb. Could be IC 17 on the ATB. SS -----Original Message----- From: Lars Ekman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:52:44 +0200 Subject: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Hello everyone, I just got a MCI JH24 from the United States (I'm in Sweden). I have not used these things before. I powered it up and everything seems to work fine except a problem with the Autolocator III. When I try to locate to a position by pressing the LOC button, it just fast-forwards and doesn't stop. Even if the locate position is behind the current tape position, it just fast-forwards. Both the rewind and fast-forward button lights become lit. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there some operating procedure or button-pressing-sequence I might have missed that could cause this (and make me look foolish)? I noticed that some connectors from the remote/Autolocator looked a little dirty/oxidized -- a possible culprit? Thanks for any help with this, /Lars ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ________________________________ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #777 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:55 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem richardlhess Offline Send Email Scott, When I was at ABC-TV in the 1970s we wanted two things in this regard: (1) Screw-machine sockets (2) No Molex connectors - we were aghast at the insertion count of these connectors. I forget the exact number now, but I think they are rated for tens of insertions--at least some of them. I had LONG discussions with Jack Williams of Pacific Recorders about this. Cheers, Richard At 04:40 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: You have a good point Steve, although it still goes back to not being a good connector choice to begin with. The connector design is just poor for this situation. The gold ones have worked better for me I think because 1.) A new connector will have better contact pressure that the old one and 2.) Because there is much less chance of a connection problem due to oxidation, the connectors are not removed/reinserted with the extreme regularity as the old ones looking for problems. For me this is just eliminating one more source of possible problems. If I see a female molex with poor spring tension, I'm going to replace it with a new one, not rebend an old one. Labor is more expensive than the connector, particularly if it ends up revisited later. I have always felt that once the oxidation problems showed up, that the large number insertion/removals by people helped wipe out the contact spring tension. Just my opinion, mind you. Your point is valid to be sure... no point in cleaning a defective connector, it should be repaired or replaced. I guess I had seen more difficulties with the red sockets, although I do remember the short run of lousy black sockets. Amazing how many years these machines were manufactured, isn't it ? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #778 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:13 pm Subject: RE: JH24 Autolocator III problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email That pretty much sums it up for me as well.... :>) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:55 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem Scott, When I was at ABC-TV in the 1970s we wanted two things in this regard: (1) Screw-machine sockets (2) No Molex connectors - we were aghast at the insertion count of these connectors. I forget the exact number now, but I think they are rated for tens of insertions--at least some of them. I had LONG discussions with Jack Williams of Pacific Recorders about this. Cheers, Richard At 04:40 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: You have a good point Steve, although it still goes back to not being a good connector choice to begin with. The connector design is just poor for this situation. The gold ones have worked better for me I think because 1.) A new connector will have better contact pressure that the old one and 2.) Because there is much less chance of a connection problem due to oxidation, the connectors are not removed/reinserted with the extreme regularity as the old ones looking for problems. For me this is just eliminating one more source of possible problems. If I see a female molex with poor spring tension, I'm going to replace it with a new one, not rebend an old one. Labor is more expensive than the connector, particularly if it ends up revisited later. I have always felt that once the oxidation problems showed up, that the large number insertion/removals by people helped wipe out the contact spring tension. Just my opinion, mind you. Your point is valid to be sure... no point in cleaning a defective connector, it should be repaired or replaced. I guess I had seen more difficulties with the red sockets, although I do remember the short run of lousy black sockets. Amazing how many years these machines were manufactured, isn't it ? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #779 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:50 am Subject: Re: JH24 Autolocator III problem ladewd Offline Send Email Ah yes... Of course I remember Tak. About 5 years ago, he became our sustaining engineer for audio products in San Jose. He was great. He may have been a second class mechanical engineer, but he knew how to cut through all the BS Atsugi could deliver. He was transfered to the CDR group in 2001. Then we got Tom Laughlin to replace him. It was kind of strange having someone Steve and I trained as our sustaining engineer. He was laid off and went to work for Digidesign. Now there is only Al Simons left. On a side note. I just got a new job. I'm officially out of the audio business (from 9-5 that is). I'm working at a place called Hydro-aire in Burbank. They manufacture anti-lock and automatic braking systems for aircraft. Its not too far of a stretch from tape machines. We have tachs, and hydraulic pressure transducers. Its almost like a tape machine, in reverse. I got a job in the Engineering Dept building test fixtures for the production line. In many ways it reminds me of MCI, an all American company, with a family type atmosphere, that actually promotes from within. I have definitely noticed fewer molex problems out here on the west coast. I also notice that tape seems to last much longer out here due to the climate. Tape would turn to goo in Ft Lauderdale in a matter of a couple of years. Out here, I have a 2" repro tape out in my garage which gets baked at the optimum temperature every summer. Its about 6-7 years old and still plays like new. In fact I have serveral reels of 456 (circa 1990) which have the Ampex logo on them that play like new also. I use the same technique as Steve to cure the molex problems. I use the vinyl white erasers that we used to use on the gold connectors for the JH600 I/O's. They're supposed to have no sulfur in them. I usually remove the pins, clean and re-spring them. Steve is 100% correct about the collapsed pins. Evey pin that has given me problems has had insufficient contact pressure. As far as hard-wiring the boards, I would certainly not do it. When I was in Venezuela on a service trip, I ran into a JH16 that had a tension issue. When I lifted the deck, I attempted to pull out the Torque Board to find a ball of ribbon cable underneath it. At that point I closed the deck and told the guy I wouldn't touch it. There was an insufficent service loop on the cables to do any work on it. As usual, I think Steve is on the right track with the locator issue. The problem is probably with the FETs or LM324, on the processor board, or the AL3 reciever on the Torque board. Later, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > Ah, yes, the cold solder problem. That is indeed a separate issue. That was taken care of. I was hired in from the studio industries into Sony at the time because having had to use and service these machines at a major studio for years, I 'knew where the bodies were buried', so to speak. I was greatly frustrated by the lack of appreciation in the factory about how disruptive the problems were, how little it would have taken to fix most of them, and basically treating customers (sometimes very large ones) as if they were idiots by telling them that 'no one else has any problem like that'. Sooner or later, word DOES get around.. :>) In any case, when the APR5000's were being designed I headed the QA of the prototype designs and ran the factory QA department. There at least I was allowed to make a difference. The packaging size wasn't one of them, neither were some of the serviceability issues, but at least they kept stable alignments with temperature changes (the prototypes didn't) and the deck plates were decent. Some of the mechanical design was done by second-string Japanese engineers (Carey, remember Tac ?) and it shows, but they were still far better than the JH110. At least with these designs, I helped head off a repeat of at least some of the more bone-headed ideas. Molexes were on my list of thanks, but no thanks. The APR-24 ended up being not-that loosely based on the 5000's, and that was a good thing. > > I have certainly seen the tach issues, although a very careful disassembly and cleaning and/or brush replacement cures that. It does 'take some miles' for that to show up. Can't say I had much problem with the pinchroller solenoid heating if the correct clearances were set on them, but the shield solenoid was a different matter. That was something that came up over and over even when pr etty new. Other than the need to keep the delrin guide clean and the dashpot set right, the only other thing that really seemed to help was deburring and buffing the end of the 'stop' screw to gently round it off. That always seemed to lead to much more consistent performance. The things sure did get white hot though. > > You touch on the other area that really is all the difference... having the service done by qualified, experienced technicians. I've seen far more damage done by hack service work than anything the machine ever does wrong. A few years ago a customer in another state called with JH24 that was spilling tape. Since I could not make the trip then due to prior commitments, they got a service company from Denver to service the machine. A week later I got a call from them in a panic. The other company had a tech work for two days on the machine, and while it *sort of* worked, it was now breaking tape. I flew out to look at it, and after about 5 seconds of watching it spool tape I shut it off. Every single mechanical and electrical adjustment on the machine had been set incorrectly and to extremes. Starting from scratch, I found that the difficulty they had from the start was a $3 voltage regulator in the transport, and that the tech had tried to 'compensate' for that. What would have been a very cheap repair became very expensive by the time I'd done a full, careful transport alignment. Why ? Because he didn't seem to know about using a multimeter to check the rails first. Duh.... Card swapping ? Groan ! I've numbered the cards on most of my old customer's machines so that they tend to stay where they belong. If they don't, well we all know the reports of 'it was channel 24 making a popping noise last week... but I heard channel 11 doing that too this week. Can you fix *them* ' ? > > Same with a lot of the molex issues...I see many that have the plastic green in color from using questionable cleaners, and by that time you ARE going to have your hands full.. :>) I'd still (at least stateside) stick with a good gentle through cleaning of the connectors when looking for transport problems, but mostly because I just feel I need to eliminate that from the mix. I do admit that I tend to lift slightly on the torque board while the problem is in evidence. If I see thing change a bunch, then the molexes are my next stop because I just hate chasing my own tail..... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goran Finnberg > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:52 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH24 Autolocator III problem > > > Scott Phillips: > > > Interesting. I have worked with dozens of the machines > > and worked at the factory as well managing Quality > > assurance. If the molex difficulties were ever solved, > > I never saw it. Needless to say, the factory isn't going > > to admit much, there was a decided stonewalling on this issue. > > Hmmm. > > John Shepherd admitted that they´d had problems with the soldering baths > so batches of cards had gone out with not enough heat to get the Molexes > heated enough so they were in fact all sent out with cold joints where > Molex was soldered to PCB. > > As I said the line I was told is that in about 1978 this was fixed. > > > It made me very angry at the time, since the customer field complaints were everywhere.. > > Thanks for caring! > > > Myself, I never saw any let up in the problems in the > > transport from the molex connectors, but it really made > > a difference where / what conditions the machine was kept > > and used in. In dry / clean conditions where the machine > > was on continuously (drove out any moisture) this > > wasn't a problem. For everyone else....? > > I agree 100 percent that the environment plays a big role no > reservations whatsoever. > > This goes for anything man made in fact. > > > It is true that once you had a molex problem, people > > used to clean the connectors using poor methods that > > in the long term made things much worse. (using erasers > > to buff them, and the erasers having sulfur content, > > buffing off the tin plating, slightly over-aggressive > > cleaning solutions, etc.) > > In my opinon you have to chose your cleaning agents with care. > > Use the wrong one and you get even more problems. > > Also in many cases there where no real fault finding going on instead > people just assumed that there "MIGHT" be a problem with the Molexes > when in fact there was something else going on. > > And by spraying a lot of oily cleaners on the Molexes you got secondary > problems showing up later on. > > > The red IC sockets were a known problem at the factory. > > Agreed but even then I´ve seen most machines with them having no > problems at all here in Sweden. > > BTW, the machine from LA had all red IC sockets but it still works no > problems at all 2 years later on from that cause. > > > and after a while even the > > IC pins plugged into them turned black. > > I´ve seen this too, but I think the culprit has more to do with the pin > material of the ICs of that time, since the pins of my Texas TL071, 072, > 074, 741s etc ALL oxidise and turn black. > > This includes every type of IC chip from Texas at that time......late > 70s early 80s. > > I have at least a few hundred ICs left from that time still, bought new > back then from the reseller here in Sweden......and the pins are nearly > black in every case looked at. > > What I have seen is that in SOME cases then the female contact force has > been weak, since the contact force of the Molexes has been low in that > PARTICULAR shipment. > > Studio Fredman here in Goteborg have a late JH24 that I´ve serviced > during some 10 years and it has performed almost perfectly well during > this time. > > http://www.studiofredman.com/ > http://www.studiofredman.com/equipment.html > > The force trying to remove any of the Molex connected cards below the > deck on this JH24 is so great that it is almost impossible to do so > without turning slightly blue in the face. :-) > > Also from 1974 to 1989 I used and serviced one JH114 from 74 to 81 and > in 1981 this was sold and a MCIJH600 and JH24 was bought and this one > too was working flawlessly up to my departure from this particular > facility in 1989. > > What I´ve seen on these two machines that was causing problems is the DC > tachos, brushes, and the pressure roller plunger getting so hot during > overdubs, needing about ten to twelve hours constant use, so the force > against the capstan got to low so the transport didn´t hold speed. > > BTW, at the present moment I´m recapping a Integrated Power Design > Switch Mode power supply that is used in all versions of external boxes > that makes a Sonic Solutions USP hard disk editing system, DAW, connect > to the outside word. > > I have 8 different boxes on 3 systems and the Molexes on the + 8V > supply, +8V and return are in many cases gone open due to low contact > pressure from the female part. > > The plastic housing has gone brown in fact. > > The supply is rated at 8V/2A this being regulated to +5V by 7805 > regulators on the logic board. > > So in this case the heat from the ohmic connection, W = RI squared, has > softened the contact pressure and finally opened the connection in this > case. > > Easily fixed indeed. > > So I do believe that the Molexes will in many cases work with zero > problems although given various environmental problems can indeed go bad > on the user if the contact pressure is high then it seems to me that > they will work even then in my experience. > > -- > Best, > > Goran Finnberg > The Mastering Room AB > Goteborg > Sweden > > E-mail: mastering@t... > > Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to > make them all yourself. - John Luther > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders > Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders > > ________________________________ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "sony_apr " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . > > > ________________________________ Reply | Messages in this Topic (28 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #780 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:01 am Subject: Sony APR-5000 manual on nBay richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7353724621 I don't have any connection with this sale FYI caveat emptor Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #781 From: "chuckmacak" Date: Tue Oct 4, 2005 8:36 pm Subject: APR 5000 Question chuckmacak Offline Send Email Hello all. this is my first post. I am looking at purchasing an APR 5000 MK1. Is there anything special I should know about these decks. I used to use a 5003 at an old studio I worked at and loved that machine. Also Does anyone have a ink to photos or old info about it. Thanks Chuck Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #782 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Oct 4, 2005 10:28 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 Question richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Chuck, I would suggest getting a later machine that has ceramic lifters and multi-piece guides. The old Mark I machines with the fixed 1/4" guides and the metal lifters are not the best. How about a manual: http://www.richardhess.com/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Enjoy! Cheers, Richard At 08:36 PM 10/4/2005, you wrote: >Hello all. this is my first post. I am looking at purchasing an APR >5000 MK1. Is there anything >special I should know about these decks. I used to use a 5003 at an >old studio I worked at >and loved that machine. Also Does anyone have a ink to photos or old >info about it. > >Thanks > >Chuck > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #783 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:04 pm Subject: APR-5000 Manual on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7356992349 Starting bid $35 from Atlanta. Enjoy! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #784 From: "blanton_stephen" Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:45 am Subject: 1st post to the group blanton_stephen Offline Send Email greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could acquire for the studio here. i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from the learned here: 1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input fucntions yet... 2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. my regards to all of you, stephen blanton http://www.blantonemusic.com http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #785 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:30 am Subject: RE: 1st post to the group ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..that would be Blevins / Steve, I would think.... Cary isn't close to you, as I recall. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of blanton_stephen Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:45 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] 1st post to the group greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could acquire for the studio here. i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from the learned here: 1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input fucntions yet... 2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. my regards to all of you, stephen blanton http://www.blantonemusic.com http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #786 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:59 am Subject: Re: 1st post to the group richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Stephen, What a sad story. I've had several tape machines damaged in shipping. Someone gave me a Studer A810 which he claimed was working when he pulled it out, but it was dead on arrival. I had a 5003 shipped to me fairly well packed and UPS dropped it and broke the meter bridge off. I took a meter bridge from a parts machine and rehabilitated that one. A friend bought a pristine 5003V and it was totally trashed in shipping as well. Now's not the time to mention this, but you should have gone after the shipper and carrier and not accepted the machine and demanded your money back. What you're describing COULD be easy to fix or it could be hard. It's more likely hard without a parts machine. Cary is in the Los Angeles area. Steve is in Nashville. It may make more sense to take the machine to Steve than to ask Steve to come to you. I'm bcc'g a friend in NC who MIGHT (and I say MIGHT) be interested in helping. At 06:45 AM 10/12/2005, "blanton_stephen" wrote: >greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen >blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many >months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the >wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months >of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could >acquire for the studio here. > >i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western >north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, >mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. > >several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production >company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had >light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, >when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the >unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any >indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is >the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. > >as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to >integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems >with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from >the learned here: > >1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the >machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power >up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input >fucntions yet... > >2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that >when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of >the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. > >i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out >throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in >nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? > >i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. > >my regards to all of you, > >stephen blanton mailto:blantonemusic@... >http://www.blantonemusic.com >http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #787 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:42 am Subject: RE: 1st post to the group ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email This really points out (again) how difficult it is to have (from off site) a recorder well packaged for shipment, and how important it is to do so. It can cost as much as you might have paid on eBay for the unit to have someone crate or package one correctly... but if you don't.... When I worked for Sony I was involved in QA drop /packaging tests in Japan for the pro audio products. It was amazing at the G loading from even small drops. Good packaging that really works is actually pretty hard to do. An APR or other machine is particularly tough, as the meter bridge amounts to a sizable weight on a small mounting stalk to hold it up. Swings 'like a pendulum do', as it were. The feet on the Bottom are often not really attached to serious structural members, as the most solid thing in the recorder will be the deck plate. You don't want the weight loading of holding up the machine to apply an stress there. That is fine until it gets dropped in shipment and gets hit with stopping a 25-40 G loaded motion. I watched some VERY well made gear just disintegrate in drop tests, even in good packaging. Quite sobering really... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:59 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1st post to the group Hello, Stephen, What a sad story. I've had several tape machines damaged in shipping. Someone gave me a Studer A810 which he claimed was working when he pulled it out, but it was dead on arrival. I had a 5003 shipped to me fairly well packed and UPS dropped it and broke the meter bridge off. I took a meter bridge from a parts machine and rehabilitated that one. A friend bought a pristine 5003V and it was totally trashed in shipping as well. Now's not the time to mention this, but you should have gone after the shipper and carrier and not accepted the machine and demanded your money back. What you're describing COULD be easy to fix or it could be hard. It's more likely hard without a parts machine. Cary is in the Los Angeles area. Steve is in Nashville. It may make more sense to take the machine to Steve than to ask Steve to come to you. I'm bcc'g a friend in NC who MIGHT (and I say MIGHT) be interested in helping. At 06:45 AM 10/12/2005, "blanton_stephen" wrote: >greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen >blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many >months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the >wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months >of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could >acquire for the studio here. > >i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western >north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, >mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. > >several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production >company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had >light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, >when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the >unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any >indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is >the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. > >as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to >integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems >with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from >the learned here: > >1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the >machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power >up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input >fucntions yet... > >2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that >when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of >the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. > >i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out >throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in >nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? > >i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. > >my regards to all of you, > >stephen blanton mailto:blantonemusic@... >http://www.blantonemusic.com >http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #788 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:35 pm Subject: Re: 1st post to the group bae_steve Offline Send Email Hi, one of my machines came from California in a standard cardboard box. When I opened the box, I found the machine wrapped in a single layer of bubble pack. But, surrounding the bubble pack was a 1x1 wood frame perfectly conforming to the exact dimentions of the machine (inside) and the 8 corners/6 sides of the standard cardboard box. It arrived in absolutely perfect condition. I won the APR5K3 on Ebay for $250.00 and was charged an extra $25.00 for crating and shipping..........I hate hearing only horror stories. West N.C. is only a half day drive from Nash Vegas. Plenty to do here if you want to stay over night. You could take the machine home fully functional, and "factory" aligned. You may not be seeing meter movement due to Preset settings. You could have a bad battery and have lost any that were there. Let me know: 615-242-0599 / mcijh@... / www.blevinsaudio.com SS -----Original Message----- From: blanton_stephen To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:45:09 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] 1st post to the group greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could acquire for the studio here. i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from the learned here: 1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input fucntions yet... 2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. my regards to all of you, stephen blanton http://www.blantonemusic.com http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #789 From: "blanton_stephen" Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:21 pm Subject: Re: 1st post to the group blanton_stephen Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > hi, richard, (and to the other posters who've seen fit to weigh in)... it is indeed a sad story since it wouldn't have taken too much effort to pack the unit securely. despite the damage, this 5003v is still a very clean unit, and as advertised, looks to have been used lightly. i DID go back on the shipper (UPS) but to no avail. i was not offered insurance upon purchase...tried to get some from the buyer, but could not make contact in suficient time. i also went back on the seller and explained the shipping situation. turns out his production company has an office in manhattan, too, and he was not aware of how the shipping had been handled initially by the office in jersey. after much wrangling, i got him to refund the biggest part of my money. but in the end i think they handled the situtation well, though, i will have to say that UPS was pretty squirrely about the affair; nice enough, but no help a'tall. thanks for the referral to your man in NC. he's already been in contact with me. from my part of the state here, it's almost as far to durham as it is to nashville. so i plan on giving steve a call, too, before forging ahead. thanks, too, for posting the manual for this machine on your website. i took advantage of the download sometime back, and look forward to getting in to the details of this machine more, and in an oviously different way(what with the repairs upcoming)than i had initially aticipated;) so at least i don't have a wad in the machine at this point; though having a studio with vintage gear can surely create abundant maintenance opportunties. i just had a revoxA77 smoke out on me two weeks ago...but it will be on it's way home in a day or two..albeit now a pricier unit than beofre it left;) it will hopefully be good to go for a long while now...fender and gibson tube guitar amps just out of the shop this week. if you like it 'old school'...well, there ain't nothin' free, as we say here down south... i'm equipment poor right now! thanks again to all responders. i enjoy the information i continue to receive here. any other thoughts and inspiration are welcome here on my end! stephen > Hello, Stephen, > > What a sad story. I've had several tape machines damaged in shipping. > Someone gave me a Studer A810 which he claimed was working when he > pulled it out, but it was dead on arrival. > > I had a 5003 shipped to me fairly well packed and UPS dropped it and > broke the meter bridge off. I took a meter bridge from a parts > machine and rehabilitated that one. > > A friend bought a pristine 5003V and it was totally trashed in > shipping as well. > > Now's not the time to mention this, but you should have gone after > the shipper and carrier and not accepted the machine and demanded > your money back. > > What you're describing COULD be easy to fix or it could be hard. It's > more likely hard without a parts machine. > > Cary is in the Los Angeles area. Steve is in Nashville. It may make > more sense to take the machine to Steve than to ask Steve to come to you. > > I'm bcc'g a friend in NC who MIGHT (and I say MIGHT) be interested in helping. > > At 06:45 AM 10/12/2005, "blanton_stephen" wrote: > >greetings to all in this most impressive group. my name is stephen > >blanton. i am an APR 5003V owner who's been lurking lo these many > >months and taking in all the personalities, discussions and the > >wealth of knowldege on the board here. i chose the apr after months > >of research into what would be the most servicable deck i could > >acquire for the studio here. > > > >i am a recording studio owner in the mountains of beautiful western > >north carolina. i do a little of lots of things here: tracking, > >mixing, mastering, cd design and dupe, and audio restoration. > > > >several months ago i purchased the 5003 off of ebay from a production > >company in new jersey. the machine was represented as having had > >light use and to be very clean. while this seems to be the case, > >when the item was shipped to me, it was packaged so poorly that the > >unit took some notable abuse, if the condition of the box was any > >indication. i've taken in a lot of equipment over the years;this is > >the worst packing and shipping miscarriage i've ever seen. > > > >as a one-man operation, i have finally gotten around to trying to > >integrate the unit into my studio operation. there are some problems > >with the unit i'd like to pass along here in hopes of some help from > >the learned here: > > > >1)transport functions seem solid, but there is no output from the > >machine...no indication of it from the meters (although when i power > >up the unit, the needles do jump in the VU's.) i haven't tried input > >fucntions yet... > > > >2)i've noticed the machine's rear grill is bent, and you can see that > >when the card access is opened on the front of the machine. all of > >the feet on the bottom are bent badly or are broken off. > > > >i'm thinking it might be adviseable to have this unit checked out > >throughly by someone fairly close to me. is it steve that's in > >nashville, tn, or is that cary? does anyone make house calls? > > > >i thank you in advance for any advice and direction you can give. > > > >my regards to all of you, > > > >stephen blanton > mailto:blantonemusic@c... > >http://www.blantonemusic.com > >http://www.vinylrecordstocd.com > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #790 From: "wm4615321" Date: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:08 am Subject: jh110b wm4615321 Offline Send Email I NEED A STRIP BOARD W/OSC. FOR JH110 SERIES TAPE RECORDER. THANK. WILLIAM WANG Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #791 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:23 pm Subject: Re: jh110b bae_steve Offline Send Email Available @ Blevins Audio, 615-242-0599 or www.blevinsaudio.com. SS -----Original Message----- From: wm4615321 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:08:06 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] jh110b I NEED A STRIP BOARD W/OSC. FOR JH110 SERIES TAPE RECORDER. THANK. WILLIAM WANG ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #792 From: "chuckmacak" Date: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:32 pm Subject: So I bought a APR 5003 Today!!!!!!!! chuckmacak Offline Send Email I finally got a 5003 today at an studio auction. It is SONY APR5003V 1/472 IN CTTC, S/N 11416. here is a picture http://www.pixelheadmusic.com/crap/auction/363.JPG.jpg I paid 700 for it I cant wait to get it home. This is my first APR. I used one for years at my last studio job. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #793 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:02 pm Subject: Re: So I bought a APR 5003 Today!!!!!!!! richardlhess Offline Send Email Congratulations. I bid on the Studer A820, but was outbid at $2500. I saw the APR but I only buy them now for REALLY good prices . Assuming the machine was in good condition, it's not a bad price to pay for one. Analog tape machines seem to be appreciating. It looked like a nice machine online. I didn't go down. You know where the manual is, but I'd ask the folks at McClear for their manual. What a shame that studio was pulled apart like this. I also couldn't believe that the 24-track A820s went for $3500 and $4000 each. Oh well. Cheers, Richard At 07:32 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote: >I finally got a 5003 today at an studio auction. It is SONY APR5003V >1/472 IN CTTC, S/N >11416. here is a picture >http://www.pixelheadmusic.com/crap/auction/363.JPG.jpg I paid >700 for it I cant wait to get it home. This is my first APR. I used >one for years at my last >studio job. > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #794 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:16 am Subject: Re: So I bought a APR 5003 Today!!!!!!!! ladewd Offline Send Email It looks to be in fine shape also. Good luck with it and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "chuckmacak" wrote: > > I finally got a 5003 today at an studio auction. It is SONY APR5003V 1/472 IN CTTC, S/N > 11416. here is a picture http://www.pixelheadmusic.com/crap/auction/363.JPG.jpg I paid > 700 for it I cant wait to get it home. This is my first APR. I used one for years at my last > studio job. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #795 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:37 pm Subject: A PAIR of nice-looking 5003Vs on ePay richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5821533215&ssPageName=ST\ RK:MEWA:IT nJoy! Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #796 From: "hsblake101" Date: Tue Nov 1, 2005 2:46 pm Subject: RE:first post hsblake101 Offline Send Email Just a thought: Interms of stability, ease of maint., life, etc.,compare the APR, JH- 110A/B, and 440C. Any interest in placing the JH-110A/B manuals on the server? I can supply these if needed. H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Mt.Wilson, CA Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #797 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Nov 1, 2005 3:00 pm Subject: RE: RE:first post ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email There have been some requests for JH110A/B/C information and schematics. I'd think the manual information would be a welcome addition. I'd think that by most standards the APR is more stable than a JH110. Life ? A well maintained JH machine is awfully hard to kill. The physical materials on the JH are quite something. Lots of heavy-gauge metal and very little plastic. Motors are similar between the machines. There are plenty of 20-25 year old JH110 and JH24 machines in productive regular service all over the place. I'd be interested in what folks have to say about the 440. One problem comparing any of these machines is that they are each technological generations from each other. More parts, more trouble? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hsblake101 Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 1:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] RE:first post Just a thought: Interms of stability, ease of maint., life, etc.,compare the APR, JH- 110A/B, and 440C. Any interest in placing the JH-110A/B manuals on the server? I can supply these if needed. H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Mt.Wilson, CA Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #798 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 1, 2005 10:15 pm Subject: RE: Machine reliability and JH110 manuals. richardlhess Offline Send Email All of these machines have maintenance headaches. As I understand it, the JH110 has IC socket and Molex connector issues -- or am I thinking of someone else. The APR has lots o'stuff some of which is unobtainium, but they seem to be robust in many ways. I haven't done serious maintenance yet on one, so it's hard to tell. Cary? The 440C is, in some respects, the plainest vanillaist of the machines listed and there are people on the Ampex and Backroom lists who say their AG350s will be running after all my Studer and APRs are dead and non-resurrectable. The same person thinks reliability went downhill with each incarnation of the 440 after the AG350. The big issue with the 440C are the (*)U&*(&( Schadow switches and their winkie caps, but they are much more available than the head connector for an APR for example. Has anyone scanned the JH-110 manuals? As an aside, I find I'm fixing Studer A810s more than A807s or APRs. But I prefer the A810 to the A807, but for many things I like the APR best. Cheers, Richard At 03:00 PM 11/1/2005, you wrote: There have been some requests for JH110A/B/C information and schematics. I'd think the manual information would be a welcome addition. I'd think that by most standards the APR is more stable than a JH110. Life ? A well maintained JH machine is awfully hard to kill. The physical materials on the JH are quite something. Lots of heavy-gauge metal and very little plastic. Motors are similar between the machines. There are plenty of 20-25 year old JH110 and JH24 machines in productive regular service all over the place. I'd be interested in what folks have to say about the 440. One problem comparing any of these machines is that they are each technological generations from each other. More parts, more trouble? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hsblake101 Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 1:47 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] RE:first post Just a thought: Interms of stability, ease of maint., life, etc.,compare the APR, JH- 110A/B, and 440C. Any interest in placing the JH-110A/B manuals on the server? I can supply these if needed. H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Mt.Wilson, CA SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #799 From: "vangerrettinc" Date: Thu Nov 3, 2005 7:47 am Subject: Sony MCI vangerrettinc Offline Send Email Hi I'm New To The Group How Is EveryOne. I Have A Sony MCI And Its Stuck In Rewind Has Any One Heard Of This Problem. I Realy Think I Need A Tech Guy To Come In.. My Studio Is In KENT, OHIO And There Isn't Many People I Can Call...If Any One Can Help PLease Let Me Know... Thank You, Kramies Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #800 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 3, 2005 8:49 am Subject: RE: Sony MCI ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've seen this before, and almost always it wasn't an electronic problem. Usually it was the rewind (or FF, if that were your problem) switch on the remote OR machine. There are several tiny plastic tits in the switch that holds the sliding 'barrel' to the switch body. As I recall, they can break off, and they get jammed inside the switch. This makes the switch internally stick in the mode. As I recall, this was typically more common on the remote as opposed to the machine proper. If so, just unplug the remote (power down first) and then see if the machine works correctly. If so, you know where the problem lies. Normally the switch can be either replaced or, in a pinch, take the switch apart and shake out the broken plastic bit. There are of course, other reasons a machine could be stuck in a mode, but this was pretty common and it costs nothing to check it out. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:47 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony MCI Hi I'm New To The Group How Is EveryOne. I Have A Sony MCI And Its Stuck In Rewind Has Any One Heard Of This Problem. I Realy Think I Need A Tech Guy To Come In.. My Studio Is In KENT, OHIO And There Isn't Many People I Can Call...If Any One Can Help PLease Let Me Know... Thank You, Kramies Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #801 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Nov 3, 2005 2:40 pm Subject: Re: Sony MCI bae_steve Offline Send Email What machine is this, a JH24, JH110, APR24, or Apr5KX? Are you really in rewind, or is the supply reel spinning out of control? I Charge $65.00 for an hour of phone assist and can talk you through any problem. Steve Sadler @ 615-242-0599 = Blevins Audio -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:47:21 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Sony MCI Hi I'm New To The Group How Is EveryOne. I Have A Sony MCI And Its Stuck In Rewind Has Any One Heard Of This Problem. I Realy Think I Need A Tech Guy To Come In.. My Studio Is In KENT, OHIO And There Isn't Many People I Can Call...If Any One Can Help PLease Let Me Know... Thank You, Kramies ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #802 From: George Utter Date: Sun Nov 6, 2005 6:50 pm Subject: RE: My MCI nightmare gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hello Sony afficionadios, George Utter here.The "My MCI Nightmare" dude.The 8 track is now sitting in my studio after much hassling and fussing.It works!!!! The top of the transport has been accidently flipped up 5 times[that I can recall] and has three dents in it.Only three tracks have lights on the VU meters and none of the transport buttons light up but Tom from AMP Services sent me replacement bulbs.The transport is very gentle with tape and is almost annoyingly slow.The remote is a boxy rectangular thing and does not seem to have what I consider the most essential function--RTZ-- when setting a locate point.Is there another remote available for the 110C-8?I thought I saw a similar deck on E-BAY that had a remote that was more like a BRC- flat and more user friendly.I can't even find a way to mount this thing[no mounting holes} for a rollaround remote.Anyway, all tracks record and playback,I just haven't tried recording with it yet.I do have a tape from 1970 that I played on it and it made me realize this is definitly worth it.It sounded so FAT! This is from the studio my group recorded in.I also realized that the tapes are all wound on hubs-no reels-its a little scary.Does anyone know where I can find empty reels?Another thing I noticed was that the leaders between songs was sticking to the tape as well as itself. There was a loud clicking -snapping sound as the leader unwound and I could see leader on the back of the tape when the next song came along.Is there anyone still selling 1" leader or empty 10" reels? I still haven't called the manager from hell about getting the tapes from the group but I do have a session coming up on thanksgiving weekend with the lead singer and bass player from the group.This should be fun! Sincerely,George Utter Scott Phillips wrote: Actually, this is one of the rare equipments that is relatively immune to messing with the boards when the power is on, so long as you don't cross=plug a molex. Having said that, go along with Steve and Tom. Steve is right, I was QA manager in Sony, but I also spent years both before and after with these machines. I was chief maintenance engineer for a very large studio that was all MCI, so I am more than familiar with them. I still service them for old clients. Steve may or may not know that. Doesn't matter in any case. There are folks here to help, I among them. I also have a fair quantity of spare parts for JH machines, along with access to test beds for cards. If I can help, just ask.... Richard was right though... for a limited number of tapes, better to have someone on list convert them for you.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:55 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Scott, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.The lights are at the bottom of my list of things to fix at this point but I did go out and look for the board but wasn't sure which one it was.Also I'm a little leery of poking around in things I don't know about in fear of making things worse.Tom from AMP wants me to try swapping some cards so I will do that.This thing needs to be OFF when you touch stuff I'm thinking -right?Tom didn't say.Tommorow is another day so we'll try this tomorrow. sincerely, George Scott Phillips wrote: I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #803 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Nov 6, 2005 7:57 pm Subject: RE: My MCI nightmare ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email A JH-110C should handle an ALIII autolocator. This would have a full remote including record ready and mode switching, along with the very same autolocator that the JH-24 would have had. It simply plugs in to the recorder. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 5:50 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony afficionadios, George Utter here.The "My MCI Nightmare" dude.The 8 track is now sitting in my studio after much hassling and fussing.It works!!!! The top of the transport has been accidently flipped up 5 times[that I can recall] and has three dents in it.Only three tracks have lights on the VU meters and none of the transport buttons light up but Tom from AMP Services sent me replacement bulbs.The transport is very gentle with tape and is almost annoyingly slow.The remote is a boxy rectangular thing and does not seem to have what I consider the most essential function--RTZ-- when setting a locate point.Is there another remote available for the 110C-8?I thought I saw a similar deck on E-BAY that had a remote that was more like a BRC- flat and more user friendly.I can't even find a way to mount this thing[no mounting holes} for a rollaround remote.Anyway, all tracks record and playback,I just haven't tried recording with it yet.I do have a tape from 1970 that I played on it and it made me realize this is definitly worth it.It sounded so FAT! This is from the studio my group recorded in.I also realized that the tapes are all wound on hubs-no reels-its a little scary.Does anyone know where I can find empty reels?Another thing I noticed was that the leaders between songs was sticking to the tape as well as itself. There was a loud clicking -snapping sound as the leader unwound and I could see leader on the back of the tape when the next song came along.Is there anyone still selling 1" leader or empty 10" reels? I still haven't called the manager from hell about getting the tapes from the group but I do have a session coming up on thanksgiving weekend with the lead singer and bass player from the group.This should be fun! Sincerely,George Utter Scott Phillips wrote: Actually, this is one of the rare equipments that is relatively immune to messing with the boards when the power is on, so long as you don't cross=plug a molex. Having said that, go along with Steve and Tom. Steve is right, I was QA manager in Sony, but I also spent years both before and after with these machines. I was chief maintenance engineer for a very large studio that was all MCI, so I am more than familiar with them. I still service them for old clients. Steve may or may not know that. Doesn't matter in any case. There are folks here to help, I among them. I also have a fair quantity of spare parts for JH machines, along with access to test beds for cards. If I can help, just ask.... Richard was right though... for a limited number of tapes, better to have someone on list convert them for you.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:55 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hi Scott, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.The lights are at the bottom of my list of things to fix at this point but I did go out and look for the board but wasn't sure which one it was.Also I'm a little leery of poking around in things I don't know about in fear of making things worse.Tom from AMP wants me to try swapping some cards so I will do that.This thing needs to be OFF when you touch stuff I'm thinking -right?Tom didn't say.Tommorow is another day so we'll try this tomorrow. sincerely, George Scott Phillips wrote: I think you have come to the right place. For what ever it is worth, I had FEDX freight ship an APR-24 from LA to Colorado springs recently. It cost about $1000 to ship, and was anything but timely, but arrived undamaged.. This was because I paid a shipping company $300 to correctly crate the thing before FEDX got their hands on it.... As for the JH lights, check the lampdriver pcb on the transport mother board, and make sure it is seated on the molex pins AND all the IC's are seated in their sockets. That'll be a start. To find the board, lift up the transport deck. Under the deck is most of the transport circuit boards. Make sure all of them are seated, but the lampdriver board in particular. That is the board about in the center, about, oh, say 3" x 4" in size. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] My MCI nightmare Hello Sony API group,I recently signed up and have been reading e-mails with interest.I am a musician,songwriter etc. and have recently purchased a Sony MCI JH110-C 8 track through E-Bay.I live in N.Y.[Long Island] and the machine was located in Tampa FL. A friend picked it up and transported it to AMP Services in West Palm Beach where it was refurbished.Heads relapped,new gold plated molex connectors installed,electronics checked and calibrated.The tech Tom was very professional and reassuring.The bill came to about $1300.00,purchase price-$900,=$2200.00 I'M Excited! Shipping is next.Tom says FEDEX Freight has been very reliable for him.Should only cost couple hundred.NOT! FEDEX wants $526.Whatever! Tom says he mounts these machines on a pallette,straps them down,bubble wraps it then shrink wraps it,no crate.Called another shipper-wants $880.00 to crate and ship.So I took my chances.Went to pick it up at the regional depot,40 minute drive,as soon as they put it on my pickup I can see things are not right.Machine is cockeyed,slipped off chocks mounted on pallet AND the bubblewrap is damaged on front of electronics.Two volume pots broken and two calibration switches smashed and thats just what I can see.Bring it home and hook it up - no input on 3 tracks,only three of 16 Vu lamps working[Tom says he can't find anymore]and the transport buttons don't light up except when the remote is unplugged and then only the rewind and fast fwd.,no play record or stop.The transport works just no lights.It was insured but how to fix it?!! Tom says he knows no one in NY that works on these machines.Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated.Lesson learned---let the shippee beware,and be willing to pay $900 to ship a $900 recorder.This is all because the possibility has appeared to aquire the master 8 track tapes that were recorded 35 years ago of a group I was in that split with the manager[who took all the $ from the record co.that was supposed to go to us]and hopefully transfer to digital and remix said tracks.The manager took all the tapes[some 40-50 tunes]and locked them in a vault in Brooklyn to spite us.He hasn't really agreed to do this yet but I'm working on him.Again any advice on repairs would help. Sincerely,George Utter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #804 From: "hsblake101" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 11:16 am Subject: MCI op-amps hsblake101 Offline Send Email This has probably been answered before, but are the MCI 2003P op-amps basically round can 5534's? What are the suggestions for replacement? I have 4 different JH-110A manuals, all with the same dates of printing,however 3 different audio board schematics are shown with no revision notations. I realize that upgrades, etc happen, but why no notations in the books? Does anyone have any of the sales brocures for the various MCI machines that could be scanned "a la" the Ampex site? H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #805 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 11:59 am Subject: Re: MCI op-amps bae_steve Offline Send Email 2003p's are ne5534's (plastic pack) 2003M's are the cans. Both currently available. I doubt you have four different manuals w/ the same date, w/ 3 different drawings for ea. audio card. You probably have a JH110 manual, and a JH110A manual early/ & or late. JH110's use 2001 op-amps w/ +/-24V rails while -A's used 2003M's while later ones used ne5534's (both are +/- 18V rails). SS -----Original Message----- From: hsblake101 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:16:11 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] MCI op-amps This has probably been answered before, but are the MCI 2003P op-amps basically round can 5534's? What are the suggestions for replacement? I have 4 different JH-110A manuals, all with the same dates of printing,however 3 different audio board schematics are shown with no revision notations. I realize that upgrades, etc happen, but why no notations in the books? Does anyone have any of the sales brocures for the various MCI machines that could be scanned "a la" the Ampex site? H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #806 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 12:24 pm Subject: RE: MCI op-amps ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Steve, What are you using for the 2001's these days..... I have very few of these left.. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 10:59 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI op-amps 2003p's are ne5534's (plastic pack) 2003M's are the cans. Both currently available. I doubt you have four different manuals w/ the same date, w/ 3 different drawings for ea. audio card. You probably have a JH110 manual, and a JH110A manual early/ & or late. JH110's use 2001 op-amps w/ +/-24V rails while -A's used 2003M's while later ones used ne5534's (both are +/- 18V rails). SS -----Original Message----- From: hsblake101 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:16:11 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] MCI op-amps This has probably been answered before, but are the MCI 2003P op-amps basically round can 5534's? What are the suggestions for replacement? I have 4 different JH-110A manuals, all with the same dates of printing,however 3 different audio board schematics are shown with no revision notations. I realize that upgrades, etc happen, but why no notations in the books? Does anyone have any of the sales brocures for the various MCI machines that could be scanned "a la" the Ampex site? H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #807 From: "vangerrettinc" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 12:33 pm Subject: Stuck In Rewind vangerrettinc Offline Send Email Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #808 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 4:10 pm Subject: RE: Stuck In Rewind ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Is the rewind lamp lit and the motors in rewind as soon as you power on the machine, or just when there is tape in the EOT sensor? Does the capstan motor ever spin? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:33 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #809 From: k dewindt Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 4:35 pm Subject: RE: Stuck In Rewind vangerrettinc Offline Send Email that the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. Scott Phillips wrote: Is the rewind lamp lit and the motors in rewind as soon as you power on the machine, or just when there is tape in the EOT sensor? Does the capstan motor ever spin? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:33 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #810 From: "vangerrettinc" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 4:39 pm Subject: stuck in rewind vangerrettinc Offline Send Email the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #811 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 4:48 pm Subject: RE: Stuck In Rewind ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Ah. Perhaps the very best place to start then is to use a multimeter and check all the power supply rails. Was the machine working and suddenly stop working, or did someone attempt service work such as removing circuit cards and reinstalling them, etc.? Might be best for the list members if contact me off list. I'll try to help, or you can take Steve up on his offer. He is very experienced and may be able to help if I can't. Steve, Cary, and I are all ex-factory MCI/SONY people. I don't think JH machines were Cary's focus, although I'm sure he has worked with many as well. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k dewindt Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind that the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. Scott Phillips wrote: Is the rewind lamp lit and the motors in rewind as soon as you power on the machine, or just when there is tape in the EOT sensor? Does the capstan motor ever spin? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:33 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #812 From: k dewindt Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 4:58 pm Subject: RE: Stuck In Rewind vangerrettinc Offline Send Email Thank you so much how can i contact you? Scott Phillips wrote: Ah. Perhaps the very best place to start then is to use a multimeter and check all the power supply rails. Was the machine working and suddenly stop working, or did someone attempt service work such as removing circuit cards and reinstalling them, etc.? Might be best for the list members if contact me off list. I'll try to help, or you can take Steve up on his offer. He is very experienced and may be able to help if I can't. Steve, Cary, and I are all ex-factory MCI/SONY people. I don't think JH machines were Cary's focus, although I'm sure he has worked with many as well. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k dewindt Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind that the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. Scott Phillips wrote: Is the rewind lamp lit and the motors in rewind as soon as you power on the machine, or just when there is tape in the EOT sensor? Does the capstan motor ever spin? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:33 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #813 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 5:41 pm Subject: RE: Stuck In Rewind ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..start with the email address scottp@.... A JH machine is awfully hard to really kill, as I think I posted here once before. Short of being hit by lightning or something, I've never run into one I couldn't make work again as long as all the parts were there. I imagine Steve's experience is similar. There are a few parts on JH-110 and 110A transports (electronic parts) that have no replacements available on a component level (the MVC IC comes to mind), but finding a replacement board on eBay or from someone like Steve or Blevins Audio, etc, will handle that nicely. Lots of compatibility between the transport electronics of the JH 110 /A/B/C, thank heavens. Scott From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k dewindt Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:58 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Thank you so much how can i contact you? Scott Phillips wrote: Ah. Perhaps the very best place to start then is to use a multimeter and check all the power supply rails. Was the machine working and suddenly stop working, or did someone attempt service work such as removing circuit cards and reinstalling them, etc.? Might be best for the list members if contact me off list. I'll try to help, or you can take Steve up on his offer. He is very experienced and may be able to help if I can't. Steve, Cary, and I are all ex-factory MCI/SONY people. I don't think JH machines were Cary's focus, although I'm sure he has worked with many as well. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k dewindt Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind that the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. Scott Phillips wrote: Is the rewind lamp lit and the motors in rewind as soon as you power on the machine, or just when there is tape in the EOT sensor? Does the capstan motor ever spin? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vangerrettinc Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:33 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Stuck In Rewind Hello Thanks For All The Responses To My Sony MCI Stuck In Rewind Problem. UnFortunatly The Problem Still Remains. I Know One Of You Said You Can Help Over The Phone. Can You Tell Me How That Would Work. Im Starting To Get Worried Here And Am Feeling Like I Should Get A New Machine. The Studio Is In Kent Ohio So If Anyone Knows A Tech Around The Area Let Me Know THANKS Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #814 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 5:48 pm Subject: Re: stuck in rewind bae_steve Offline Send Email Scott: I use 2001's. Vangerrettinc: You keep saying the same thing over and over....did you disconnect the remote and ALIII as Scott suggested? If you push the stop switch on the deck and hold it down does the reel stop spinning? I charge $65.00 (thru PayPal) for phone assist and can resolve your problem. PayPal = bae_steve@... Phone = 615-242-0599. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:39:19 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #815 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 5:57 pm Subject: RE: stuck in rewind ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Steve, Are these still available as new/old stock somewhere or did you just get a bunch when the getting was good? I haven't seen these offered anywhere in a good while. Just curious, really, I don't get much call for them. I'm down to 3, but those might last 10 more years at the rate I use them... :>) Mostly I get the 2003/2004 vs 5534/5532 questions. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Scott: I use 2001's. Vangerrettinc: You keep saying the same thing over and over....did you disconnect the remote and ALIII as Scott suggested? If you push the stop switch on the deck and hold it down does the reel stop spinning? I charge $65.00 (thru PayPal) for phone assist and can resolve your problem. PayPal = bae_steve@... Phone = 615-242-0599. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:39:19 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #816 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 8:13 pm Subject: Re: stuck in rewind bae_steve Offline Send Email We keep our eyes peeled for them, and we are not the MCI/Sony Worldwide Parts Center. We buy/rebuild, sell, and service MCI/Sony consoles and tape machines. We need our parts for those purposes. When you buy MCI from us, it's all there. Factory spec. by authorized, trained etc., etc.........w/ original or equivalent parts. It's getting to be a major problem w/ trying to make a living making things right when everyone buy's cheap off E'bay and expects us to "give" them the service for free, and the hard to get parts for cheap. I don't recall any of these guys offering me free studio time, and cheap tape. Very soon (Jan. 1, 2k6), I won't answer a question unless you're on my paid list. After all, try getting stock purchase advice w/out subscribing to the newsletter. To quote the Mothers of Invention: " Well, I'm not living very extravegantly, I'll tell you that." It's not like Sony has me on a retainer. I Know what his problem is, but if he wants to waste time to save a couple of bucks that might keep my phone turned on, so be it. I'm in beer mode............SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:57:50 -0600 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Steve, Are these still available as new/old stock somewhere or did you just get a bunch when the getting was good? I haven't seen these offered anywhere in a good while. Just curious, really, I don't get much call for them. I'm down to 3, but those might last 10 more years at the rate I use them... :>) Mostly I get the 2003/2004 vs 5534/5532 questions. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Scott: I use 2001's. Vangerrettinc: You keep saying the same thing over and over....did you disconnect the remote and ALIII as Scott suggested? If you push the stop switch on the deck and hold it down does the reel stop spinning? I charge $65.00 (thru PayPal) for phone assist and can resolve your problem. PayPal = bae_steve@... Phone = 615-242-0599. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:39:19 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #817 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 8:35 pm Subject: RE: stuck in rewind ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Easy Steve... I don't need the stock, just a matter of idol curiosity. I make my living elsewhere. The few places I still support are just a few old customers, and at my suggestion they often go to Blevins for the vintage gear, and the warranty support of that gear. Randy has always dealt fairly with them and me, when I have had that interaction. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:13 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind We keep our eyes peeled for them, and we are not the MCI/Sony Worldwide Parts Center. We buy/rebuild, sell, and service MCI/Sony consoles and tape machines. We need our parts for those purposes. When you buy MCI from us, it's all there. Factory spec. by authorized, trained etc., etc.........w/ original or equivalent parts. It's getting to be a major problem w/ trying to make a living making things right when everyone buy's cheap off E'bay and expects us to "give" them the service for free, and the hard to get parts for cheap. I don't recall any of these guys offering me free studio time, and cheap tape. Very soon (Jan. 1, 2k6), I won't answer a question unless you're on my paid list. After all, try getting stock purchase advice w/out subscribing to the newsletter. To quote the Mothers of Invention: " Well, I'm not living very extravegantly, I'll tell you that." It's not like Sony has me on a retainer. I Know what his problem is, but if he wants to waste time to save a couple of bucks that might keep my phone turned on, so be it. I'm in beer mode............SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:57:50 -0600 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Steve, Are these still available as new/old stock somewhere or did you just get a bunch when the getting was good? I haven't seen these offered anywhere in a good while. Just curious, really, I don't get much call for them. I'm down to 3, but those might last 10 more years at the rate I use them... :>) Mostly I get the 2003/2004 vs 5534/5532 questions. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Scott: I use 2001's. Vangerrettinc: You keep saying the same thing over and over....did you disconnect the remote and ALIII as Scott suggested? If you push the stop switch on the deck and hold it down does the reel stop spinning? I charge $65.00 (thru PayPal) for phone assist and can resolve your problem. PayPal = bae_steve@... Phone = 615-242-0599. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:39:19 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #818 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:47 am Subject: Re: stuck in rewind bae_steve Offline Send Email I didn't mean you, Scott.....I was just ranting....or raving as the case may be. SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:35:26 -0600 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Easy Steve... I don't need the stock, just a matter of idol curiosity. I make my living elsewhere. The few places I still support are just a few old customers, and at my suggestion they often go to Blevins for the vintage gear, and the warranty support of that gear. Randy has always dealt fairly with them and me, when I have had that interaction. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:13 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind We keep our eyes peeled for them, and we are not the MCI/Sony Worldwide Parts Center. We buy/rebuild, sell, and service MCI/Sony consoles and tape machines. We need our parts for those purposes. When you buy MCI from us, it's all there. Factory spec. by authorized, trained etc., etc.........w/ original or equivalent parts. It's getting to be a major problem w/ trying to make a living making things right when everyone buy's cheap off E'bay and expects us to "give" them the service for free, and the hard to get parts for cheap. I don't recall any of these guys offering me free studio time, and cheap tape. Very soon (Jan. 1, 2k6), I won't answer a question unless you're on my paid list. After all, try getting stock purchase advice w/out subscribing to the newsletter. To quote the Mothers of Invention: " Well, I'm not living very extravegantly, I'll tell you that." It's not like Sony has me on a retainer. I Know what his problem is, but if he wants to waste time to save a couple of bucks that might keep my phone turned on, so be it. I'm in beer mode............SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:57:50 -0600 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Steve, Are these still available as new/old stock somewhere or did you just get a bunch when the getting was good? I haven't seen these offered anywhere in a good while. Just curious, really, I don't get much call for them. I'm down to 3, but those might last 10 more years at the rate I use them... :>) Mostly I get the 2003/2004 vs 5534/5532 questions. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcijh@... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind Scott: I use 2001's. Vangerrettinc: You keep saying the same thing over and over....did you disconnect the remote and ALIII as Scott suggested? If you push the stop switch on the deck and hold it down does the reel stop spinning? I charge $65.00 (thru PayPal) for phone assist and can resolve your problem. PayPal = bae_steve@... Phone = 615-242-0599. Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: vangerrettinc To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:39:19 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] stuck in rewind the rewind button stays lit. The supply reel spins out of control as soon as the machine powers up, and the capstan motor does not spin because it will not go into stop or play mode. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #819 From: "reeltapegone1" Date: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:36 pm Subject: JH 110 Prototype reeltapegone1 Offline Send Email Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #820 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:13 pm Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype Mark4@... Send Email I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype > Hello: > > Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have > prototype > #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am > trying > to bring one back to life. > > Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi > tracks. > > Thanks in adavnce! > "reeltapegone" > > Matt Laube > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #821 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:23 pm Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype eddieaudio Offline Send Email I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #822 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:31 pm Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype Mark4@... Send Email I think we got the first of 15 or so at Sound 80, in late '75/early '76. Does this sound right? And what ever happened to John Shepherd? :-)) BTW Gary Harned (Jeep's son) lives just a few blocks from me here in Colorado... Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #823 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:09 am Subject: RE: JH 110 Prototype ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I had him send me the transport PC boards and I tested and repaired them. The serial numbers were in the 1-2 digit range. In fact, seems like one of them was something like #09 ! The artwork was extremely early, and I thought I'd seen nearly all of them. The PLL board was unlike anything I've seen, with numerous edits, no connectors where you'd expect some (didn't look like it ever HAD had any connectors in fact) and capstan and tach arrangements again unlike anything I'd run into. The other boards I was able to test and repair on a mid-'70's JH-110 or 110A, even thought the artwork and parts were completely different in some cases, as the basic operation concept was the same and 'mostly' the same components were there in different places. The PLL was too different to test given the differences without some documents. It isn't my machine I was using as a test bed, after all. It also had a couple of tacked on circuits flying on top of the card, and these looked like something to condition tach pulses, but I am uncertain, as they also had a cable and plug attached to it. It didn't exactly have the 'normal' provisions at the top of the card to plug in the capstan motor. His description of the wiring loom made it different as well. From the basic description of the fault, and based on what he told me, I suggested that he look at the EOT next. If this thing isn't a prototype it must have been darn close to one. I get the impression it is a real piece of history. I wish I could see it, it would make it easier to help him. Mark, you might be just the man for this one... :>) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:24 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #824 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:44 pm Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype eddieaudio Offline Send Email Mark are you from MN? I currently teach two days a week in what was the old METRO studio space. ec Durenberger wrote: I think we got the first of 15 or so at Sound 80, in late '75/early '76. Does this sound right? And what ever happened to John Shepherd? :-)) BTW Gary Harned (Jeep's son) lives just a few blocks from me here in Colorado... Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #825 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:43 am Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype bae_steve Offline Send Email Eddie, or anyone else: Have you any info on a JH21 Program Equilizer PC6000C0034? It's a black faced, rack mount module w/ a 12 pin double sided edge connector (pictures available). SS -----Original Message----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:23:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #826 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:07 am Subject: Re: JH 110 Prototype Mark4@... Send Email From Minnesota; now living in Western Colorado and "commuting" to Mpls. Mbrgr ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Mark are you from MN? I currently teach two days a week in what was the old METRO studio space. ec Durenberger wrote: I think we got the first of 15 or so at Sound 80, in late '75/early '76. Does this sound right? And what ever happened to John Shepherd? :-)) BTW Gary Harned (Jeep's son) lives just a few blocks from me here in Colorado... Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype I worked at MCI in late '75 early '76 and I suspect your machine to be before that time, but perhaps not by much... eddie c Mark Durenberger wrote: I had some experience with the early machines...had to be within the first few dozen. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "reeltapegone1" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [sony_apr] JH 110 Prototype Hello: Any folks here have any expierence on the first 20 JH 110's? I have prototype #14 and it seems to be be very different. I have a few questions as I am trying to bring one back to life. Claude Hill said it was after his time as he only developed the multi tracks. Thanks in adavnce! "reeltapegone" Matt Laube Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #827 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:42 pm Subject: Analog multitrack evolution timeline a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi -- This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown beyond the resources there. I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog multitrack recording. The significant data points include appearance of each track format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to make fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C 1/2 16-track were discontinued. Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and lots of web research here's what I have so far: 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape 1947 Ampex Model 200A 1948 3M Scotch 111 1949 Ampex 300 Magnecord 1/2-track staggered-head stereo tape recorder Studer Dynavox 1950 Ampex 400 1951 Studer 27 1952 1953 Ampex 350 1954 1955 Studer A37 and B37 1956 1/2" 3-track Les Paul's 1" 8-track recorder based on Ampex 300 /350 1957 1958 Ampex 351 1959 Ampex Tape 1960 Ampex 354 Stereo Studer C37 1961 3M M23-2 1962 3M 201/202 "Dynarange," black oxide tape 4 dB quieter than Scotch 111 1963 Ampex MR70 debut -- offered up to 1" 8-track Studer A62 1964 1/2" 4-track Studer J37 1" 4-track based on the C37 transport Motown goes 1" 8-track 1965 Dolby A Ampex AG-350 / first solid state mastering recorder 1966 Ampex AG-300 1967 Sgt Pepper on (2) Studer J37 4-tracks Ampex AG-440 up to 4-track / later in year AG440-8 Scully prototypes 284-12 Ampex prototypes AG-1000 16-track which later becomes the MM-1000 1968 Ampex MM1000-24 Dolby B 1969 3M Scotch 206 / 207 now 7 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440B 1970 Ampex 406 Studer A80 1/2/4/8/16/24 1971 TEAC A3340 1/4" Quad 1972 Dobly M-16 Dolby A Rack TEAC A3340S 1/4" 4-track w/ Sel-Sync 1973 Ampex MM-1100 8/16/24 1974 3M Scotch 250 now 10 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440C 1/2/4/8 TASCAM Series 70 1/2" 8-track 1975 Ampex 456 1976 Ampex ATR-101/102/104 TASCAM 80-8 1/2" 8 track TASCAM DX-8 8-track dbx NR 1977 Ampex MM-1200 8/16/24 1978 Studer A800 8/16/24 1979 TASCAM 90-16 1" 16-track w/ 16 channels of dbx 1980 3M, Mitsubishi, Sony and Studer digital multitracks Dolby C 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 Studer A820 1/2/4/8/16/24 TASCAM 388 Studio 8 track 1/4" recorder / mixer 1986 Dolby SR 1987 TASCAM ATR-80/24 2" 24-track 1988 TASCAM MSR-16 1/2" 16-track 1989 1990 3M 996 now 13 dB quieter than Scotch 111 MSR-24 1" 24-track Dolby S 1991 Ampex 499 1992 1993 TASCAM DA88 1994 1995 1996 Prototype 96/24 converters JRF 2" 8-track Head Assemblies (?) 1997 1998 Ampex GP9 - Reformulated 3M 996 I found a lot of the TASCAM info on their website, except they don't detail Dolby S vs dbx versions of their later machines. Fostex is as yet a void, which I'd like to fill. I have the following specific questions: First 2-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 3-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 4-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 8-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. Need timeline info for 3M machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Sony / MCI machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Stephens machines and innovations. Need release date for Ampex ATR124. (1982?) Need timeline info for Otari machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Telefunken / Telcom C4 noise reduction. When / how were the first multitrack machine SMPTE TC lockups done? Some of the Studer blanks need to be filled in, especially the A827 release date. Not sure I have all of the significant tape formulations. Not sure I have the correct info on 2" 8-track. Also, I think there may have been an earlier European 2" 8-track machine, but have no details whatsoever. If anyone can add or correct anything (or just tell me where to go look), let me know and I'll update the spreadsheet. Please try to get your information from reliable sources like dates in manuals, etc. When this process settles down, I'll publish the results on the 'net where we can all access it Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ========================================================. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #828 From: "nelsonrs2000" Date: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:04 pm Subject: Re: Analog multitrack evolution timeline nelsonrs2000 Offline Send Email Hi Steve, I just found some facts in a german site (http://www.useddlt.com/magnetbandtechn0.0.html): 1935 AEG Magnetophon K1 - shown in the Funkaustellung Berlin, Germany - paper tape, 6,5 mm wide, 30 cm diameter, speed 77 cm/s, frequency up to 6000 Hz, DC Bias, 30-35 db dynamic 1935-1936 IG Farben (later BASF) Type C tape: Cellulose acetate basis 1936 AEG Magnetophon K2 - 37 db dynamic 1941 AEG Magnetophon K4 - HF Bias, 55-57 db dynamic, frequency up to 10000 Hz, less than 3% distortion 1941 AGFA begins to produce tapes 1943 IG Farben (later BASF) Type L tape: PVC basis. Together with the K4: 60 db dynamic, 50-10000 Hz frequency Regards, Nelson -----Original Message----- From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Puntolillo Sent: Samstag, 26. November 2005 21:43 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Analog multitrack evolution timeline Hi -- This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown beyond the resources there. I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog multitrack recording. The significant data points include appearance of each track format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to make fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C 1/2 16-track were discontinued. Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and lots of web research here's what I have so far: 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape ... Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #829 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:27 pm Subject: RE: Re: Analog multitrack evolution timeline a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi, Nelson -- Thanks! -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nelsonrs2000 > Sent: November 26, 2005 8:04 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Analog multitrack evolution timeline > > > Hi Steve, > > I just found some facts in a german site > (http://www.useddlt.com/magnetbandtechn0.0.html): > > 1935 AEG Magnetophon K1 - shown in the Funkaustellung Berlin, > Germany - paper tape, 6,5 mm wide, 30 cm diameter, speed 77 cm/s, > frequency up to 6000 Hz, DC Bias, 30-35 db dynamic > 1935-1936 IG Farben (later BASF) Type C tape: Cellulose acetate > basis > 1936 AEG Magnetophon K2 - 37 db dynamic > 1941 AEG Magnetophon K4 - HF Bias, 55-57 db dynamic, frequency > up > to 10000 Hz, less than 3% distortion > 1941 AGFA begins to produce tapes > 1943 IG Farben (later BASF) Type L tape: PVC basis. Together > with > the K4: 60 db dynamic, 50-10000 Hz frequency > > Regards, > > Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Puntolillo > Sent: Samstag, 26. November 2005 21:43 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Analog multitrack evolution timeline > > Hi -- > > This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown > beyond the resources there. > > I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog > multitrack > recording. The significant data points include appearance of each > track > format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to > make > fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C > 1/2 > 16-track were discontinued. > > Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and > lots > of web research here's what I have so far: > > 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US > 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape > ... > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #830 From: "bhelonious" Date: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:02 pm Subject: Sony MCI JH 24 bhelonious Offline Send Email Hello - I've just started having an interesting new problem with my machine. It will randomly drop out of record and either continue in play, or simply stop. I've also noticed an internal buzzing/crackling when it happens. I've had the machine for 10 years and had worked on it at the studio I bought it from for 5 previous. All the red IC's have been replaced, and apart from normal maintenance and the occasional "drifting while in stop" problem, the machine has been terrific. Anyone else have this happen to them? I would appreciate any insight, and/or a place to start looking for the solution. Thanks in advance. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #831 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:33 am Subject: RE: Sony MCI JH 24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Power supplies are always a good place to start. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bhelonious Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony MCI JH 24 Hello - I've just started having an interesting new problem with my machine. It will randomly drop out of record and either continue in play, or simply stop. I've also noticed an internal buzzing/crackling when it happens. I've had the machine for 10 years and had worked on it at the studio I bought it from for 5 previous. All the red IC's have been replaced, and apart from normal maintenance and the occasional "drifting while in stop" problem, the machine has been terrific. Anyone else have this happen to them? I would appreciate any insight, and/or a place to start looking for the solution. Thanks in advance. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #832 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:37 am Subject: RE: Sony MCI JH 24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...forgot to say, particularly the PSU fan. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:34 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony MCI JH 24 Power supplies are always a good place to start. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bhelonious Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:02 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony MCI JH 24 Hello - I've just started having an interesting new problem with my machine. It will randomly drop out of record and either continue in play, or simply stop. I've also noticed an internal buzzing/crackling when it happens. I've had the machine for 10 years and had worked on it at the studio I bought it from for 5 previous. All the red IC's have been replaced, and apart from normal maintenance and the occasional "drifting while in stop" problem, the machine has been terrific. Anyone else have this happen to them? I would appreciate any insight, and/or a place to start looking for the solution. Thanks in advance. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #833 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:00 am Subject: Re: Sony MCI JH 24 bae_steve Offline Send Email As far as dropping out of Record, etc., your 22Vdc in the Xport P/S is sagging. What the "buzzing/crackling" is, who knows.... may or may not be related.... smell any smoke? SS -----Original Message----- From: bhelonious To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:02:04 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Sony MCI JH 24 Hello - I've just started having an interesting new problem with my machine. It will randomly drop out of record and either continue in play, or simply stop. I've also noticed an internal buzzing/crackling when it happens. I've had the machine for 10 years and had worked on it at the studio I bought it from for 5 previous. All the red IC's have been replaced, and apart from normal maintenance and the occasional "drifting while in stop" problem, the machine has been terrific. Anyone else have this happen to them? I would appreciate any insight, and/or a place to start looking for the solution. Thanks in advance. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #834 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005 3:15 pm Subject: Rare? Sony APR-2003 on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email In case y'all missed it... http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5836900594&ssPageName=STR\ K:MEWA:IT It's the 5" reel portable APR - don't ever recall seeing one before, tho a brochure has been forsale for ever on eBay. I'm not going after it--thought someone on the list might want it, though. In this class, I'd hold out for a Nagra IV-S Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #835 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005 10:37 am Subject: Re: Rare? Sony APR-2003 on eBay radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Sony made a few recorders with this frame/format -- do you have the specs for the APR-2003? Judging by the XLR's, I'd guess that this unit can run at 15ips, although not for long with 5" reels. My understanding is that the really rare models were handmade for NHK and have probably never made it outside of Japan. I've picked up a couple Nagra IV-S's (and quite a few IV-SJ's) for under $1000 . . . do you want one (or two)? Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #836 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005 7:33 pm Subject: APR-5003 So Cal richardlhess Offline Send Email This doesn't appear to be a 5003V but rather a 5003, but I'm not sure.. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7371639925&rd=1&sspagename=STR\ K%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 Just in case you're not watching. I think I'm getting a nice 5003 on Wednesday - drive up, pick up, drop off some cash. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #837 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005 7:36 pm Subject: OT: In Seach Of a TASCAM IF-TAD / piece of history richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm in search of a good price on a Tascam IF-TAD. This has the 25-pin TDIF connector and a pair of ADAT Light Pipe I/O connectors and does bidirectional translation. Also, if you guys want a hoot, I hear it ran at 100 in/s and it's a little later than the ad would make out, probably the late 1920s. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6583032444 Look, no toobs. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #838 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Rare? Sony APR-2003 on eBay ladewd Offline Send Email That is rare. Its Sony's answer to the Nagra. We had one in Boca, and this may be the one, who knows. If I remember correctly, it was a 7.5/3.75ips machine with center track time code, no built in TC generator. It was not made here in the states like the others in the APR series. The consensus in the factory was that it was a POS and not very dependable. It was pretty though. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > In case y'all missed it... > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5836900594&ssPageName=STR\ K:MEWA:IT > > It's the 5" reel portable APR - don't ever recall seeing one before, > tho a brochure has been forsale for ever on eBay. > > I'm not going after it--thought someone on the list might want it, though. > > In this class, I'd hold out for a Nagra IV-S > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #839 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Dec 5, 2005 12:45 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 So Cal paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Forgive me if this has been answered in past posts. I've been meaning to sit down and go through them, but you know how that goes...: The seller in the eBay auction Richard refers to has recently added this note: "I have been asked what generation of machine this is because the power supply's in generations 1 and 2 were bad. This is the final or 3rd generation with the better power supply. The serial number on this machine is 20036." Regarding the power supplies for generations 1 & 2, is this true, and if so, what does it mean that the power supplies were "bad"? Does anyone know the approximate serial number cutoffs for the various generations? Are there any other known issues with the earlier generation machines? Thank you! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > This doesn't appear to be a 5003V but rather a 5003, but I'm not sure.. > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=7371639925&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > Just in case you're not watching. > > I think I'm getting a nice 5003 on Wednesday - drive up, pick up, > drop off some cash. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #840 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Dec 7, 2005 8:05 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 So Cal ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Paul. I trust all the power supplies. There was an isolated incident at NBC Radio, where a power supply caught fire. At that point we installed thermal fuses in all the transformers. I don't think my machine has one. No big deal. The NBC machine was always left on, so if you're not doing that, I wouldn't worry about it. There were hundreds of machines that didn't burn. The power supply regulator boards were condensed from 4 assemblies to 2 assemblies sometime in the early '90's. I have no serial info on it. I would prefer the older style, since I thought they were made better, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a machine with either supply. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > Forgive me if this has been answered in past posts. I've been > meaning to sit down and go through them, but you know how that > goes...: > > The seller in the eBay auction Richard refers to has recently added > this note: > > "I have been asked what generation of machine this is because the > power supply's in generations 1 and 2 were bad. > > This is the final or 3rd generation with the better power supply. > The serial number on this machine is 20036." > > Regarding the power supplies for generations 1 & 2, is this true, > and if so, what does it mean that the power supplies were "bad"? > Does anyone know the approximate serial number cutoffs for the > various generations? Are there any other known issues with the > earlier generation machines? > > Thank you! > > Paul > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > > > This doesn't appear to be a 5003V but rather a 5003, but I'm not > sure.. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=7371639925&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > > > Just in case you're not watching. > > > > I think I'm getting a nice 5003 on Wednesday - drive up, pick up, > > drop off some cash. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #841 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Wed Dec 7, 2005 3:14 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 So Cal paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thanks very much for the detailed info, Cary! Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Hi Paul. > > I trust all the power supplies. There was an isolated incident at NBC > Radio, where a power supply caught fire. At that point we installed > thermal fuses in all the transformers. I don't think my machine has > one. No big deal. The NBC machine was always left on, so if you're > not doing that, I wouldn't worry about it. There were hundreds of > machines that didn't burn. > > The power supply regulator boards were condensed from 4 assemblies to > 2 assemblies sometime in the early '90's. I have no serial info on > it. I would prefer the older style, since I thought they were made > better, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a machine with either supply. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Paul McCulloh" wrote: > > > > Forgive me if this has been answered in past posts. I've been > > meaning to sit down and go through them, but you know how that > > goes...: > > > > The seller in the eBay auction Richard refers to has recently added > > this note: > > > > "I have been asked what generation of machine this is because the > > power supply's in generations 1 and 2 were bad. > > > > This is the final or 3rd generation with the better power supply. > > The serial number on this machine is 20036." > > > > Regarding the power supplies for generations 1 & 2, is this true, > > and if so, what does it mean that the power supplies were "bad"? > > Does anyone know the approximate serial number cutoffs for the > > various generations? Are there any other known issues with the > > earlier generation machines? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > > wrote: > > > > > > This doesn't appear to be a 5003V but rather a 5003, but I'm not > > sure.. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > ViewItem&item=7371639925&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > > > > > Just in case you're not watching. > > > > > > I think I'm getting a nice 5003 on Wednesday - drive up, pick up, > > > drop off some cash. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #842 From: "gricupito" Date: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:43 pm Subject: So Cal Sony APR 5003 gricupito Offline Send Email I was the person who won the auction for the So Cal Sony APR 5003. I've been planning to invest in a RtR for my mastering business, so I'm delighted to learn how great these machines are. It was looking that my budget was going to get me an Otari 5050, but I hear this machine is a real step up from that. I was wonering if anyone has a solid recommendation for a house call service tech located here in Los Angeles that has experience with the 5003's and can calibrate & assess it before I put it into service. Thanks, GT Richards Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #843 From: mcijh@... Date: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:49 pm Subject: Re: So Cal Sony APR 5003 bae_steve Offline Send Email Cary Altschuler SS -----Original Message----- From: gricupito To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:43:11 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] So Cal Sony APR 5003 I was the person who won the auction for the So Cal Sony APR 5003. I've been planning to invest in a RtR for my mastering business, so I'm delighted to learn how great these machines are. It was looking that my budget was going to get me an Otari 5050, but I hear this machine is a real step up from that. I was wonering if anyone has a solid recommendation for a house call service tech located here in Los Angeles that has experience with the 5003's and can calibrate & assess it before I put it into service. Thanks, GT Richards ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #844 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:34 pm Subject: Re: So Cal Sony APR 5003 ladewd Offline Send Email I'll be glad to make an APR house call in the LA area. Drop me an email and we can make arrangements. I will be free the week between Xmas and New Years. I'm pretty much working 24/7 these days. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gricupito" wrote: > > I was the person who won the auction for the So Cal Sony APR 5003. > I've been planning to invest in a RtR for my mastering business, so > I'm delighted to learn how great these machines are. It was looking > that my budget was going to get me an Otari 5050, but I hear this > machine is a real step up from that. > > I was wonering if anyone has a solid recommendation for a house call > service tech located here in Los Angeles that has experience with the > 5003's and can calibrate & assess it before I put it into service. > > Thanks, > > GT Richards > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #845 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:33 pm Subject: APR-500x firmware richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello! I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: 4.02.01.6 I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. 4.01.01.1 If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. Older software: speed: 3.75 press speed button speed: 15 power cycle speed: 7.5 New software speed: 3.75 press speed button speed: 7.5 It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs in the system. What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the use of the later software? Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site or the list Web site. Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are using the same version, if possible. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #846 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:03 pm Subject: Re: APR-500x firmware bae_steve Offline Send Email Yes, You can copy the E-proms and replace the older version. I believe the LNT also has an E-Prom.......don't know about a 'memory expansion CPU'....must be after my time. If you mean the VITC card, though, you'd have to have that for video. I use a Xeltec Superpro Eprom reader/programer. Google it. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: Sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:33:18 -0500 Subject: [sony_apr] APR-500x firmware Hello! I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: 4.02.01.6 I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. 4.01.01.1 If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. Older software: speed: 3.75 press speed button speed: 15 power cycle speed: 7.5 New software speed: 3.75 press speed button speed: 7.5 It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs in the system. What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the use of the later software? Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site or the list Web site. Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are using the same version, if possible. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #847 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:18 pm Subject: Re: APR-500x firmware richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Steve! The LNT has a ROM. Do you recall that this ROM needs to match the version of the EPROM on the CPU? The LNT is one of those boards buried inside the machine towards the rear, right? No the online manual www.richardhess.com/apr/ username apr password apr5003v Volume 2 PDF page 23 explains it (caution 70M download). T9412-327-4 (US) or 1-619-161-12 (Japanese) is the board with "expanded memory capabilities" Cheers, Richard At 05:03 PM 12/12/2005, mcijh@... wrote: >Yes, You can copy the E-proms and replace the older version. I >believe the LNT also has an E-Prom.......don't know about a 'memory >expansion CPU'....must be after my time. If you mean the VITC card, >though, you'd have to have that for video. > >I use a Xeltec Superpro Eprom reader/programer. Google it. > >SS Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #848 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:12 am Subject: Re: APR-500x firmware ladewd Offline Send Email I don't think the 5003V ROMs will work in a 5003. There was a modification to the CPU board and Steve should remember it, he wrote the tech bulletin on it. It was a messy mod, but do-able. BTW, I don't have the docs anymore. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello! > > I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. > > The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: > 4.02.01.6 > > I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. > 4.01.01.1 > > If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the > machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 > that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? > > One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only > firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed > DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed > when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. > > Older software: > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 15 > power cycle > speed: 7.5 > > New software > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 7.5 > > It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs > in the system. > > What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine > doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the > use of the later software? > > Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later > software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site > or the list Web site. > > Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. > > I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are > using the same version, if possible. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #849 From: mcijh@... Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-500x firmware bae_steve Offline Send Email My mistake, Thanks, Cary.............. Per Sony T.B. 89-0066 R.e. Firmware Ver. P4.02.01.5 (CPU)/P1.01.01.3 (LNT) for APR5003V; this firmware (and later updates) is NOT compatible w/ APR5003 or other APR5000 models. The mod Cary refers to is, I believe, Sony T.B 89-119, the Serial Upgrade Kit (T-9985-276-1). It allows serial and expanded synchronization control of an APR-5003 using LTC only. It only supported BVE-900/9000 editors. I don't have a lot of my documentation at hand, and would have to search through several boxes in my warehouse for my notes and write-ups. Unless you found someone who bought the kit w/ instructions, my copies are probably the only source available for some of those early hardware mods. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:12:49 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-500x firmware I don't think the 5003V ROMs will work in a 5003. There was a modification to the CPU board and Steve should remember it, he wrote the tech bulletin on it. It was a messy mod, but do-able. BTW, I don't have the docs anymore. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello! > > I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. > > The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: > 4.02.01.6 > > I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. > 4.01.01.1 > > If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the > machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 > that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? > > One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only > firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed > DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed > when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. > > Older software: > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 15 > power cycle > speed: 7.5 > > New software > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 7.5 > > It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs > in the system. > > What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine > doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the > use of the later software? > > Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later > software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site > or the list Web site. > > Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. > > I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are > using the same version, if possible. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #850 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:19 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-500x firmware richardlhess Offline Send Email Aaargh! sounds like too much work for a minor annoyance. Steve, if you find these we should scan them and put them online. I'd be willing to scan up to say 200 pages, and I think I could convince Tom Fine to feed a bunch into his "maw" at work that auto-pdfs stuff. That would be a real service to everyone if you could find them. I'd certainly pay shipping and perhaps even pay you for an hour or two of hunting if you come up with a semi-complete set of FSBs. Cheers, Richard At 12:25 PM 12/13/2005, mcijh@... wrote: My mistake, Thanks, Cary.............. Per Sony T.B. 89-0066 R.e. Firmware Ver. P4.02.01.5 (CPU)/P1.01.01.3 (LNT) for APR5003V; this firmware (and later updates) is NOT compatible w/ APR5003 or other APR5000 models. The mod Cary refers to is, I believe, Sony T.B 89-119, the Serial Upgrade Kit (T-9985-276-1). It allows serial and expanded synchronization control of an APR-5003 using LTC only. It only supported BVE-900/9000 editors. I don't have a lot of my documentation at hand, and would have to search through several boxes in my warehouse for my notes and write-ups. Unless you found someone who bought the kit w/ instructions, my copies are probably the only source available for some of those early hardware mods. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:12:49 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-500x firmware I don't think the 5003V ROMs will work in a 5003. There was a modification to the CPU board and Steve should remember it, he wrote the tech bulletin on it. It was a messy mod, but do-able. BTW, I don't have the docs anymore. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello! > > I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. > > The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: > 4.02.01.6 > > I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. > 4.01.01.1 > > If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the > machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 > that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? > > One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only > firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed > DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed > when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. > > Older software: > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 15 > power cycle > speed: 7.5 > > New software > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 7.5 > > It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs > in the system. > > What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine > doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the > use of the later software? > > Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later > software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site > or the list Web site. > > Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. > > I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are > using the same version, if possible. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #851 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:50 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-500x firmware ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I can also feed them through a huge autofeed scanner-to-pdf unit I have at work, if that helps anybody. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:19 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-500x firmware Aaargh! sounds like too much work for a minor annoyance. Steve, if you find these we should scan them and put them online. I'd be willing to scan up to say 200 pages, and I think I could convince Tom Fine to feed a bunch into his "maw" at work that auto-pdfs stuff. That would be a real service to everyone if you could find them. I'd certainly pay shipping and perhaps even pay you for an hour or two of hunting if you come up with a semi-complete set of FSBs. Cheers, Richard At 12:25 PM 12/13/2005, mcijh@... wrote: My mistake, Thanks, Cary.............. Per Sony T.B. 89-0066 R.e. Firmware Ver. P4.02.01.5 (CPU)/P1.01.01.3 (LNT) for APR5003V; this firmware (and later updates) is NOT compatible w/ APR5003 or other APR5000 models. The mod Cary refers to is, I believe, Sony T.B 89-119, the Serial Upgrade Kit (T-9985-276-1). It allows serial and expanded synchronization control of an APR-5003 using LTC only. It only supported BVE-900/9000 editors. I don't have a lot of my documentation at hand, and would have to search through several boxes in my warehouse for my notes and write-ups. Unless you found someone who bought the kit w/ instructions, my copies are probably the only source available for some of those early hardware mods. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:12:49 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-500x firmware I don't think the 5003V ROMs will work in a 5003. There was a modification to the CPU board and Steve should remember it, he wrote the tech bulletin on it. It was a messy mod, but do-able. BTW, I don't have the docs anymore. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello! > > I know we've revisited this before, but I'm still confused. > > The two latest machines that I have (5003Vs) have this firmware revision: > 4.02.01.6 > > I just got a pretty nice 5003 with this firmware revision. > 4.01.01.1 > > If I can copy the PROMS from the processor card from one of the > machines with the 4.02.01.6 firmware, can I put them into the 5003 > that has the 4.01.01.1 firmware without updating anything else? > > One of the main reasons to do this is I think 4.02.01.6 is the only > firmware (that I have) that properly reads the low-speed/high-speed > DIP switch on the head assembly. All the others default to high-speed > when you cycle speeds, but return to low speed after a power cycle. > > Older software: > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 15 > power cycle > speed: 7.5 > > New software > speed: 3.75 > press speed button > speed: 7.5 > > It seems that IC13 and IC14 on the CPU board are the only two EPROMs > in the system. > > What about the larger-memory CPU board? What happens if the machine > doesn't have the expanded memory CPU board? Does that preclude the > use of the later software? > > Finally if someone could send me a PROM reader to copy the later > software, I'd appreciate it. We could put it up on either my Web site > or the list Web site. > > Or...which one should I buy again that's cheeeep. > > I think I'd want to burn a few sets as well so all my machines are > using the same version, if possible. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for Good! Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #852 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:02 pm Subject: Serial Number anomaly - APR-5002 richardlhess Offline Send Email I was just looking at my collection of APRs and I haven't confirmed this as it's too hard to access some of these machines, but my records (which have been pretty accurate) indicate that I have two APR-5002s, one from 86A and one from 86C -- and both allegedly bear the serial number 10121. They came from widely separated sources. Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #853 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:11 pm Subject: Parting out beat-to-a-pulp APR-5002s richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've got to save space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. This is not an immediate project, but I would like any parts requests sooner rather than later. There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, but I'll try and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put the stuff on on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants something, please let me know. If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that right now. I'm thinking ahead. Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to your message subject. APR Parts Request and it will filter to a special folder. Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 APRs. A bunch of them are early with the one-piece idlers. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #854 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Serial Number anomaly - APR-5002 richardlhess Offline Send Email Answered my own question - I did have a small error. The 86A is a 5003, not 5002. It's odd to have two machines with the same serial number, even though they are different models. After going through another "working" machine, it, too, is in poor condition. I fear I have lots of parts and not that many working machines. I'm doing better with Studers . I have a small problem with one A810 that I'm using and dismissing that, I have 3 of my 5 working. I also have 5 of my 5 remaining A807s working or nearly working -- two require reinstallation of internal solder jumpers and then should work. I say "remaining" as I sold four of the play-only, rackmount A807s over time. I also sold a 5003 a few years ago as a friend really, really wanted one. I do have three working 5003Vs, two in the studio and one on a shelf, and an ancient 5002 that pulls tape as my mold winding machine in the garage. The three that I looked at today could be made to work -- it's niggly things that are wrong with them. But they are well-used. At 09:02 PM 12/15/2005, you wrote: >I was just looking at my collection of APRs and I haven't confirmed >this as it's too hard to access some of these machines, but my >records (which have been pretty accurate) indicate that I have two >APR-5002s, one from 86A and one from 86C -- and both allegedly bear >the serial number 10121. They came from widely separated sources. > Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #855 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:13 am Subject: Re: Parting out beat-to-a-pulp APR-5002s ladewd Offline Send Email I don't suppose you have an extra stand? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. > > I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may > keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've got to save > space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. > > This is not an immediate project, but I would like any parts requests > sooner rather than later. > > There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, but I'll try > and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. > > If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put the stuff on > on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants > something, please let me know. > > If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that right now. I'm > thinking ahead. > > Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to > your message subject. > > APR Parts Request > > and it will filter to a special folder. > > Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 APRs. A bunch > of them are early with the one-piece idlers. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #856 From: "Blantone Music" Date: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:27 am Subject: APR Parts Request blanton_stephen Offline Send Email i would assume (shudder) that the rubber/plastic feet from the 5002 will fit the 5003...i'd like to have 4 of 'em... and like cary, i'd be interested in a stand if you are going to turn one loose here in the next while... stephen www.blantonemusic.com www.vinylrecordstocd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: Sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Parting out beat-to-a-pulp APR-5002s Hi, I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've got to save space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. This is not an immediate project, but I would like any parts requests sooner rather than later. There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, but I'll try and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put the stuff on on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants something, please let me know. If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that right now. I'm thinking ahead. Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to your message subject. APR Parts Request and it will filter to a special folder. Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 APRs. A bunch of them are early with the one-piece idlers. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #857 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:58 pm Subject: APR Parts Request - Stand richardlhess Offline Send Email Now, I don't have (m)any extra stands. Steve had a few - we've been tossing them. Steve-- do you still have one you could ship to Cary? THe shipping from Canada will be a killer. Cheers, Richard At 07:13 AM 12/16/2005, you wrote: >I don't suppose you have an extra stand? > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. > > > > I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may > > keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've got to save > > space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. > > > > This is not an immediate project, but I would like any parts requests > > sooner rather than later. > > > > There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, but I'll try > > and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. > > > > If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put the stuff on > > on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants > > something, please let me know. > > > > If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that right now. I'm > > thinking ahead. > > > > Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to > > your message subject. > > > > APR Parts Request > > > > and it will filter to a special folder. > > > > Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 APRs. A bunch > > of them are early with the one-piece idlers. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > > Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #858 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:06 pm Subject: Re: APR Parts Request richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm sure I could get you a set of feet...see public message on list re: stands. Cheers, Richard At 09:27 AM 12/16/2005, you wrote: i would assume (shudder) that the rubber/plastic feet from the 5002 will fit the 5003...i'd like to have 4 of 'em... and like cary, i'd be interested in a stand if you are going to turn one loose here in the next while... stephen www.blantonemusic.com www.vinylrecordstocd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: Sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Parting out beat-to-a-pulp APR-5002s Hi, I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've got to save space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. This is not an immediate project, but I would like any parts requests sooner rather than later. There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, but I'll try and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put the stuff on on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants something, please let me know. If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that right now. I'm thinking ahead. Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to your message subject. APR Parts Request and it will filter to a special folder. Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 APRs. A bunch of them are early with the one-piece idlers. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #859 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:38 pm Subject: RE: APR Parts Request - Stand a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi -- Sorry, no. Unfortunately, I'm cramped for space and so I couldn't keep any spares. However, I would be willing to trade an APR stand for something solid and more generic that's meant to hold a heavy tape deck. It would need to roll. I have had good luck recycling Otari stands. I would imagine others would also work. Please contact me off list if you wish to pursue something. WARNING. These stands are HEAVY. -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: December 16, 2005 1:59 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR Parts Request - Stand > > > Now, I don't have (m)any extra stands. > > Steve had a few - we've been tossing them. > > Steve-- do you still have one you could ship to Cary? > > THe shipping from Canada will be a killer. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:13 AM 12/16/2005, you wrote: > >I don't suppose you have an extra stand? > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm probably going to part out some APRs to save space. > > > > > > I will probably toss the chassis including the deck plates. I may > > > keep a few pieces of trim and such just in case, but I've > got to save > > > space. I also need to make my spares more accessible. > > > > > > This is not an immediate project, but I would like any > parts requests > > > sooner rather than later. > > > > > > There will probably be a bunch of stuff tossed, sadly, > but I'll try > > > and keep the good stuff in a more orderly and accessible way. > > > > > > If you want any hardware, please let me know. I may put > the stuff on > > > on ePay before tossing it...but if anyone on this list wants > > > something, please let me know. > > > > > > If you need it in a rush, I don't think I can do that > right now. I'm > > > thinking ahead. > > > > > > Please use the line below for the subject -- copy it from below to > > > your message subject. > > > > > > APR Parts Request > > > > > > and it will filter to a special folder. > > > > > > Ultimately, I think I will be parting out probably 10 > APRs. A bunch > > > of them are early with the one-piece idlers. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@r... > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > > > Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/bDIolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #860 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:21 am Subject: Early 5000 series manual on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email 7374305258 It's not comprehensive but it might help if you'd rather not look at the PDFs. Why doesn't the person who want this say so here to avoid bidding against each other. It's not worth driving the cost up too high and it looks to be in fair, not great condition. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #861 From: "Steve Sadler" Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:43 pm Subject: APR 5k3 Hd. Assy. bae_steve Offline Send Email Hey, Richard, ....awfully nice of me not to bid against you on that T.C. Hd assy., isn't it. SS Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #862 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:58 pm Subject: Re: APR 5k3 Hd. Assy. on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Steve, I don't have a proxy bid in on it but I do have an eSnipe bid waiting... The heads apparently show wear AND they have been relapped according to the auction. I know a couple of you wanted head assemblies so I won't raise my eSnipe bid past $120. I've paid more than that for head assemblies and I have a few spares. I don't mind it going to someone here for cheap, but I'd hate to see it go to someone we don't know for a song. Cheers, Richard At 02:43 PM 12/29/2005, Steve Sadler wrote: >Hey, Richard, ....awfully nice of me not to bid against you on that >T.C. Hd assy., isn't it. > >SS > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada http://www.richardhess.com/ Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #863 From: George Utter Date: Mon Jan 2, 2006 4:51 pm Subject: Re: Analog multitrack evolution timeline gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hi Steve, George Utter here. I am a member of the Sony APR group.I am interested in transferring some 8 track 1" tapes to digital and was wondering what formats you move them to.I have a studio on LI in Riverhead at the crotch of the twin forks so to speak.I am also wondering what it costs to do transfers.I also have a video on 16 mm of the group I was in from 1969 that I would like to have transferred to DVD.Do you do video transfers?I was actually planning to do the audio tape transfers myself and bought a Sony MCI 8 track but I don't have the tapes yet and am unsure of their condition.They were recorded in the 60's on a Scully 8 track and were kept in a controlled environment until a few years ago.I would rather talk on the phone but today is Monday Jan. 2nd and no one is working today, except me.I drive an oil truck in the winter and get home late in the afternoon.Hope you can find the time to get back to me ,Sincerely George Utter--- gutter5030@... Steve Puntolillo wrote: Hi -- This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown beyond the resources there. I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog multitrack recording. The significant data points include appearance of each track format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to make fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C 1/2 16-track were discontinued. Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and lots of web research here's what I have so far: 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape 1947 Ampex Model 200A 1948 3M Scotch 111 1949 Ampex 300 Magnecord 1/2-track staggered-head stereo tape recorder Studer Dynavox 1950 Ampex 400 1951 Studer 27 1952 1953 Ampex 350 1954 1955 Studer A37 and B37 1956 1/2" 3-track Les Paul's 1" 8-track recorder based on Ampex 300 /350 1957 1958 Ampex 351 1959 Ampex Tape 1960 Ampex 354 Stereo Studer C37 1961 3M M23-2 1962 3M 201/202 "Dynarange," black oxide tape 4 dB quieter than Scotch 111 1963 Ampex MR70 debut -- offered up to 1" 8-track Studer A62 1964 1/2" 4-track Studer J37 1" 4-track based on the C37 transport Motown goes 1" 8-track 1965 Dolby A Ampex AG-350 / first solid state mastering recorder 1966 Ampex AG-300 1967 Sgt Pepper on (2) Studer J37 4-tracks Ampex AG-440 up to 4-track / later in year AG440-8 Scully prototypes 284-12 Ampex prototypes AG-1000 16-track which later becomes the MM-1000 1968 Ampex MM1000-24 Dolby B 1969 3M Scotch 206 / 207 now 7 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440B 1970 Ampex 406 Studer A80 1/2/4/8/16/24 1971 TEAC A3340 1/4" Quad 1972 Dobly M-16 Dolby A Rack TEAC A3340S 1/4" 4-track w/ Sel-Sync 1973 Ampex MM-1100 8/16/24 1974 3M Scotch 250 now 10 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440C 1/2/4/8 TASCAM Series 70 1/2" 8-track 1975 Ampex 456 1976 Ampex ATR-101/102/104 TASCAM 80-8 1/2" 8 track TASCAM DX-8 8-track dbx NR 1977 Ampex MM-1200 8/16/24 1978 Studer A800 8/16/24 1979 TASCAM 90-16 1" 16-track w/ 16 channels of dbx 1980 3M, Mitsubishi, Sony and Studer digital multitracks Dolby C 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 Studer A820 1/2/4/8/16/24 TASCAM 388 Studio 8 track 1/4" recorder / mixer 1986 Dolby SR 1987 TASCAM ATR-80/24 2" 24-track 1988 TASCAM MSR-16 1/2" 16-track 1989 1990 3M 996 now 13 dB quieter than Scotch 111 MSR-24 1" 24-track Dolby S 1991 Ampex 499 1992 1993 TASCAM DA88 1994 1995 1996 Prototype 96/24 converters JRF 2" 8-track Head Assemblies (?) 1997 1998 Ampex GP9 - Reformulated 3M 996 I found a lot of the TASCAM info on their website, except they don't detail Dolby S vs dbx versions of their later machines. Fostex is as yet a void, which I'd like to fill. I have the following specific questions: First 2-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 3-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 4-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 8-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. Need timeline info for 3M machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Sony / MCI machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Stephens machines and innovations. Need release date for Ampex ATR124. (1982?) Need timeline info for Otari machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Telefunken / Telcom C4 noise reduction. When / how were the first multitrack machine SMPTE TC lockups done? Some of the Studer blanks need to be filled in, especially the A827 release date. Not sure I have all of the significant tape formulations. Not sure I have the correct info on 2" 8-track. Also, I think there may have been an earlier European 2" 8-track machine, but have no details whatsoever. If anyone can add or correct anything (or just tell me where to go look), let me know and I'll update the spreadsheet. Please try to get your information from reliable sources like dates in manuals, etc. When this process settles down, I'll publish the results on the 'net where we can all access it Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ========================================================. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #864 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Mon Jan 2, 2006 6:12 pm Subject: RE: Analog multitrack evolution timeline a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi, George! I'm on a quick break from an all day session (so much for taking the day off!). Just wanted to tell you that I'll try to get back to you with detailed answers, hopefully later tonight. Email me with your phone number and a window of time and if I can break free long enough, I'll call you. Meanwhile, here's more info that's hidden on the site, but will be useful in our conversations: http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx/FAQ.html Best regards, -- Steve (732) 303-8559 =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== -----Original Message----- From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: January 02, 2006 4:51 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Analog multitrack evolution timeline Hi Steve, George Utter here. I am a member of the Sony APR group.I am interested in transferring some 8 track 1" tapes to digital and was wondering what formats you move them to.I have a studio on LI in Riverhead at the crotch of the twin forks so to speak.I am also wondering what it costs to do transfers.I also have a video on 16 mm of the group I was in from 1969 that I would like to have transferred to DVD.Do you do video transfers?I was actually planning to do the audio tape transfers myself and bought a Sony MCI 8 track but I don't have the tapes yet and am unsure of their condition.They were recorded in the 60's on a Scully 8 track and were kept in a controlled environment until a few years ago.I would rather talk on the phone but today is Monday Jan. 2nd and no one is working today, except me.I drive an oil truck in the winter and get home late in the afternoon.Hope you can find the time to get back to me ,Sincerely George Utter--- gutter5030@... Steve Puntolillo wrote: Hi -- This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown beyond the resources there. I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog multitrack recording. The significant data points include appearance of each track format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to make fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C 1/2 16-track were discontinued. Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and lots of web research here's what I have so far: 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape 1947 Ampex Model 200A 1948 3M Scotch 111 1949 Ampex 300 Magnecord 1/2-track staggered-head stereo tape recorder Studer Dynavox 1950 Ampex 400 1951 Studer 27 1952 1953 Ampex 350 1954 1955 Studer A37 and B37 1956 1/2" 3-track Les Paul's 1" 8-track recorder based on Ampex 300 /350 1957 1958 Ampex 351 1959 Ampex Tape 1960 Ampex 354 Stereo Studer C37 1961 3M M23-2 1962 3M 201/202 "Dynarange," black oxide tape 4 dB quieter than Scotch 111 1963 Ampex MR70 debut -- offered up to 1" 8-track Studer A62 1964 1/2" 4-track Studer J37 1" 4-track based on the C37 transport Motown goes 1" 8-track 1965 Dolby A Ampex AG-350 / first solid state mastering recorder 1966 Ampex AG-300 1967 Sgt Pepper on (2) Studer J37 4-tracks Ampex AG-440 up to 4-track / later in year AG440-8 Scully prototypes 284-12 Ampex prototypes AG-1000 16-track which later becomes the MM-1000 1968 Ampex MM1000-24 Dolby B 1969 3M Scotch 206 / 207 now 7 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440B 1970 Ampex 406 Studer A80 1/2/4/8/16/24 1971 TEAC A3340 1/4" Quad 1972 Dobly M-16 Dolby A Rack TEAC A3340S 1/4" 4-track w/ Sel-Sync 1973 Ampex MM-1100 8/16/24 1974 3M Scotch 250 now 10 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440C 1/2/4/8 TASCAM Series 70 1/2" 8-track 1975 Ampex 456 1976 Ampex ATR-101/102/104 TASCAM 80-8 1/2" 8 track TASCAM DX-8 8-track dbx NR 1977 Ampex MM-1200 8/16/24 1978 Studer A800 8/16/24 1979 TASCAM 90-16 1" 16-track w/ 16 channels of dbx 1980 3M, Mitsubishi, Sony and Studer digital multitracks Dolby C 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 Studer A820 1/2/4/8/16/24 TASCAM 388 Studio 8 track 1/4" recorder / mixer 1986 Dolby SR 1987 TASCAM ATR-80/24 2" 24-track 1988 TASCAM MSR-16 1/2" 16-track 1989 1990 3M 996 now 13 dB quieter than Scotch 111 MSR-24 1" 24-track Dolby S 1991 Ampex 499 1992 1993 TASCAM DA88 1994 1995 1996 Prototype 96/24 converters JRF 2" 8-track Head Assemblies (?) 1997 1998 Ampex GP9 - Reformulated 3M 996 I found a lot of the TASCAM info on their website, except they don't detail Dolby S vs dbx versions of their later machines. Fostex is as yet a void, which I'd like to fill. I have the following specific questions: First 2-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 3-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 4-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 8-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. Need timeline info for 3M machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Sony / MCI machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Stephens machines and innovations. Need release date for Ampex ATR124. (1982?) Need timeline info for Otari machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Telefunken / Telcom C4 noise reduction. When / how were the first multitrack machine SMPTE TC lockups done? Some of the Studer blanks need to be filled in, especially the A827 release date. Not sure I have all of the significant tape formulations. Not sure I have the correct info on 2" 8-track. Also, I think there may have been an earlier European 2" 8-track machine, but have no details whatsoever. If anyone can add or correct anything (or just tell me where to go look), let me know and I'll update the spreadsheet. Please try to get your information from reliable sources like dates in manuals, etc. When this process settles down, I'll publish the results on the 'net where we can all access it Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ========================================================. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #865 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Mon Jan 2, 2006 7:56 pm Subject: Oops! (was RE: Analog multitrack evolution timeline) a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Dear Sony_Apr, > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Steve Puntolillo > Sent: January 02, 2006 6:12 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Analog multitrack evolution timeline > > Hi, George! I didn't realize this email came through the list. Thought I was replying directly. It didn't help that my filter in Outlook didn't siphon it over into the Sony_Apr folder . . . Sorry! -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #866 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:15 am Subject: RE: Analog multitrack evolution timeline a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi, George --- Trying to catch up on my correspondence. It's busy here! What's going on with your project? Please give me a call at (732) 303-8559 so we can chat. Best, -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== -----Original Message----- From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Utter Sent: January 02, 2006 4:51 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Analog multitrack evolution timeline Hi Steve, George Utter here. I am a member of the Sony APR group.I am interested in transferring some 8 track 1" tapes to digital and was wondering what formats you move them to.I have a studio on LI in Riverhead at the crotch of the twin forks so to speak.I am also wondering what it costs to do transfers.I also have a video on 16 mm of the group I was in from 1969 that I would like to have transferred to DVD.Do you do video transfers?I was actually planning to do the audio tape transfers myself and bought a Sony MCI 8 track but I don't have the tapes yet and am unsure of their condition.They were recorded in the 60's on a Scully 8 track and were kept in a controlled environment until a few years ago.I would rather talk on the phone but today is Monday Jan. 2nd and no one is working today, except me.I drive an oil truck in the winter and get home late in the afternoon.Hope you can find the time to get back to me ,Sincerely George Utter--- gutter5030@... Steve Puntolillo wrote: Hi -- This effort actually started out on the Ampex list but may have grown beyond the resources there. I'm trying to compile a time line of the evolution of analog multitrack recording. The significant data points include appearance of each track format, noise reduction and tape formulation. Note that I'd like to make fine distinctions like when odd formats like 1" 12-track and Dolby C 1/2 16-track were discontinued. Based on contributions from Ampex list members, my own library and lots of web research here's what I have so far: 1945 Mullin's Magnetophons sent to US 1946 Scotch 100 black oxide paper tape 1947 Ampex Model 200A 1948 3M Scotch 111 1949 Ampex 300 Magnecord 1/2-track staggered-head stereo tape recorder Studer Dynavox 1950 Ampex 400 1951 Studer 27 1952 1953 Ampex 350 1954 1955 Studer A37 and B37 1956 1/2" 3-track Les Paul's 1" 8-track recorder based on Ampex 300 /350 1957 1958 Ampex 351 1959 Ampex Tape 1960 Ampex 354 Stereo Studer C37 1961 3M M23-2 1962 3M 201/202 "Dynarange," black oxide tape 4 dB quieter than Scotch 111 1963 Ampex MR70 debut -- offered up to 1" 8-track Studer A62 1964 1/2" 4-track Studer J37 1" 4-track based on the C37 transport Motown goes 1" 8-track 1965 Dolby A Ampex AG-350 / first solid state mastering recorder 1966 Ampex AG-300 1967 Sgt Pepper on (2) Studer J37 4-tracks Ampex AG-440 up to 4-track / later in year AG440-8 Scully prototypes 284-12 Ampex prototypes AG-1000 16-track which later becomes the MM-1000 1968 Ampex MM1000-24 Dolby B 1969 3M Scotch 206 / 207 now 7 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440B 1970 Ampex 406 Studer A80 1/2/4/8/16/24 1971 TEAC A3340 1/4" Quad 1972 Dobly M-16 Dolby A Rack TEAC A3340S 1/4" 4-track w/ Sel-Sync 1973 Ampex MM-1100 8/16/24 1974 3M Scotch 250 now 10 dB quieter than Scotch 111 Ampex AG-440C 1/2/4/8 TASCAM Series 70 1/2" 8-track 1975 Ampex 456 1976 Ampex ATR-101/102/104 TASCAM 80-8 1/2" 8 track TASCAM DX-8 8-track dbx NR 1977 Ampex MM-1200 8/16/24 1978 Studer A800 8/16/24 1979 TASCAM 90-16 1" 16-track w/ 16 channels of dbx 1980 3M, Mitsubishi, Sony and Studer digital multitracks Dolby C 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 Studer A820 1/2/4/8/16/24 TASCAM 388 Studio 8 track 1/4" recorder / mixer 1986 Dolby SR 1987 TASCAM ATR-80/24 2" 24-track 1988 TASCAM MSR-16 1/2" 16-track 1989 1990 3M 996 now 13 dB quieter than Scotch 111 MSR-24 1" 24-track Dolby S 1991 Ampex 499 1992 1993 TASCAM DA88 1994 1995 1996 Prototype 96/24 converters JRF 2" 8-track Head Assemblies (?) 1997 1998 Ampex GP9 - Reformulated 3M 996 I found a lot of the TASCAM info on their website, except they don't detail Dolby S vs dbx versions of their later machines. Fostex is as yet a void, which I'd like to fill. I have the following specific questions: First 2-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 3-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 4-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. First 8-track professional recorder - date, make, model - mass produced. Need timeline info for 3M machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Sony / MCI machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Stephens machines and innovations. Need release date for Ampex ATR124. (1982?) Need timeline info for Otari machines and innovations. Need timeline info for Telefunken / Telcom C4 noise reduction. When / how were the first multitrack machine SMPTE TC lockups done? Some of the Studer blanks need to be filled in, especially the A827 release date. Not sure I have all of the significant tape formulations. Not sure I have the correct info on 2" 8-track. Also, I think there may have been an earlier European 2" 8-track machine, but have no details whatsoever. If anyone can add or correct anything (or just tell me where to go look), let me know and I'll update the spreadsheet. Please try to get your information from reliable sources like dates in manuals, etc. When this process settles down, I'll publish the results on the 'net where we can all access it Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ========================================================. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #867 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:17 am Subject: Oh, man -- AGAIN! Sorry! (was RE: Analog multitrack evolution timeline) a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi, All -- Sorry. I did it again. Please disregard my previous message (unless you're George Utter). -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #868 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:46 pm Subject: Broadcast Equipment Manuals that are going begging--Last call richardlhess Offline Send Email I still have about 2 cu ft of manuals that are going begging and they are getting dangerously near the big blue recycling bucket. Please let me know if you want any of these before they get made back into paper... Bosch/Philips/BTS assorted camera literature/manuals, routing switcher manuals (including Venus and TAS/TVS 2000, Diamond Digital switcher installation and operations guides. ITC/3M Delta/Omega/PD and an early Series 99B NAB broadcast audio cart machine manuals. Early 1970s assorted Scientific Atlanta Satellite Earth Station manuals Austron Time and Frequency standard manuals Manuals are FREE, shipping is extra. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #869 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:05 pm Subject: MCI PARTS Mark4@... Send Email Hi folks. I'm disposing of a box full of MCI JH-110 parts...from reel motors to head stacks and PC boards and most everything in between. They're primarily from 110's and 110A's, 1/4-inch. Please contact me off-list if you have any requests.... Best regards, Mark Durenberger Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #870 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 2, 2006 1:10 am Subject: The 1/2" machine on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email I should mention that those heads are Woelke ceramic. I haven't done critical testing on my set so I don't know how they behave. Wear shouldn't be an issue . Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #871 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 2, 2006 1:09 am Subject: 1/2" APR on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I just noted this Ebay Auction # 7387305327 It is a 1/2" machine and he didn't say. The heads look JUST LIKE the ones I got and then had JRF make a mounting for...except this head plate skirt is full height. My skirt has a 1/4" space between the top of the skirt and the head plate... It's in Anaheim, CALIFORNIA. I just got two 5003s of some flavour at the auction today. A friend picked them up for me. Cheers, Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #873 From: "larhinds" Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006 6:05 pm Subject: APR24 Tension Arm Roller Bearings larhinds Offline Send Email Anyone know the NSK part no. or the dimensions of the Sony ARP 24 Tension Arm Roller Bearings? Also a source for the record assign switches on the remote? Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #874 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 8, 2006 12:00 am Subject: Testing my new email address richardlhess Offline Send Email SpamCop has been listing Yahoo Mail servers for sending spam. My new hosting provider is bouncing mail back. So I'm now switching to GMail for my list mail. Email has gotten worse. I spoke to one hosting provider sales person who said spam was up 100% since about 8 months ago. If you wish to reach me, while this will work, richard@... is still the best. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #875 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:24 am Subject: Sony 1/2" APR-5002 up on eBay again (or another one?) richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7390525565 This is in SoCal and comes with a stand (for those in SoCal looking for a stand). Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #876 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:29 pm Subject: Re: Sony 1/2" APR-5002 up on eBay again (or another one?) radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Aren't 1/2" 2-track "mix-down" machines still worth mucho dollaros? Like $1500+ . . . ? Granted this is an obscure make/model for someone like jstele (the seller) and there are no closeups of the heads but this sure seems like a steal -- if you aren't geographically challenged. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #877 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:59 am Subject: Re: Sony 1/2" APR-5002 up on eBay again (or another one?) richardlhess Offline Send Email Those are Woelke ceramic heads and I suspect they aren't worn based on the performance of other Woelke ceramic heads. We don't know the condition of the rest of the machine...just that it's not DOA- that means, to me, powers up, sort-of pulls tape. At 04:29 AM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Richard: Aren't 1/2" 2-track "mix-down" machines still worth mucho dollaros? Like $1500+ . . . ? Granted this is an obscure make/model for someone like jstele (the seller) and there are no closeups of the heads but this sure seems like a steal -- if you aren't geographically challenged. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #878 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:34 pm Subject: Sony APR 24 Head ID, Richard's continuing insanity richardlhess Offline Send Email As you know, one of the most wonderful things about the APR-500x is that it can have up to 12 different head assemblies all stored in memory -- 3 different setups per each of 3 speeds - 9 setups times 12 head assemblies--108 "bins" in all! OK, I would LOVE to do that with my APR-16 which, as many of you may recall, is really an APR-24 that went through the "Honey I shrunk the tape machine" machine... So, the APR-24 manual SHOWS an AHB board (the little board with the 8-position DIP switch that's inside the APR-500x head assemblies) and the ALN (Align Panel) shows a connection for it and the overall block shows a head status cable from head block to ALN panel. OK, in the APR-16, none of the four extra pins on the each of the head connectors appear to be wired. I would think that jumpers on those 4 extra pins could go a long way towards making the changeover automagic. All 8 bits could be accommodated in the first rank of connectors so even a 3-4-8 track could activate it properly. But the APR-24 manual shows the actual little DIP Switch board. So I don't mind tweaking the DIP switches if it works like it does on the APR-500x. I have several questions: (1) Where is the DIP Switch board on an APR-24? (2) What are the codes for the DIP switch? Are they essentially transcoded off the APR-500x or what? (3) Does this function work well or are there limitations? (4) Does the tape tension change with assignments between different tape widths like the APR-500x? For the APR-16, I currently have the following record/play head assemblies: 16 track 1-inch 8-track 1-inch 8-track 1/2-inch 4-track 1/2-inch I'm thinking of adding over time, the following playback-only assemblies: 8-track 1/4" (using a 5003V to pull tape, but the 16 for electronics--have the head) 16-track 1/2" (have the head) 3-track 1/2" (need head) 4-track 1" (need head) 7-track (4/3) 1/2" IRIG instrumentation (heads are headed my way) 14-track 1" IRIG instrumentation (need heads) 20-track 1/2" logging (have the heads) 40-track 1" logging (have the heads) On the logging recorders, I may use the electronics from the 40-channel Dictaphone. The Dictaphone transport looks difficult to service. I'm not sure what I can do. For the IRIG stuff, I could modify the components on some CNL cards. I should have enough spares to do that, or perhaps I can get close to being "Direct" just with EQ settings, and then post-eq in the DAW. Any thoughts, support, parts, etc. for this would be of great help. It looks as if the MCI head base plates will come close to fitting the APR. I may do one head assembly a year or something like that. For reference, this is how I've ID'd my head assemblies for the APR-500x 01 -- Nortronics Full Track R/P head stack 02 -- 200 Mil Paper Tape Head (used as "receiver" for other 3/4 track assemblies) 03 -- Wideface NAB (Applied Magnetics) (great, but I usually do these on an A810) 04 -- A: 2-track DIN Rec/Play (Nortronics) 04 -- B: Three Channel NAB 04 -- C: Three Channel TOMCAT 05 -- 4-channel 8-track with elevator (frequent use-uses two APRs) 06 -- 4-channel quarter-track (frequent use-uses two APRs) 07 -- future 1/2-inch 08 -- 2-track 1/2-inch 09 -- 2-track timecode head stack--normal mode 10 -- 2-track timecode head stack--slow mode (frequent use down to 1.88 in/s -50% varispeed) 11 -- 3-track 1/2 inch 12 -- 4-track 1/2 inch (I do this on the APR-16) Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #879 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:02 pm Subject: Sony APR 24 Head ID, Richard's continuing insanity - Findings so far... richardlhess Offline Send Email Here is the status of my findings so far on the APR-16 and the news is mixed. I found the DIP switch. It is under the control panel on the left side. Once I knew what I was looking for it was in _some_ but not all of the drawings that should have shown it in the manual. When I looked at it, it was set to 00000010. I tried various combinations and found that only the last two switches work, and they set the track count to: 00 - not used / error 01 - 8 tracks 10 - 16 tracks 11 - 24 tracks None of the other positions seem to offer any additional storage registers, but each of these positions offers a separate set of storage registers...so, here is my thinking as to how this scenario might play out for me: 8-track mode: A 8-track 1" (have head assembly for APR-16) B 8-track 1/2" (have head assembly for APR-16) C 8-track 1/4" (using APR-5000 to pull the tape) (have head, need accessories/mounting) 16 track mode: A 16 track 1" (have head assembly for APR-16) B 16 track 1/2" (have head, need accessories/mounting) C 7-track 1/2" IRIG (tracks 1-7) (heads coming to me) C 4-track 1/2-inch (have head assembly for APR-16) (tracks 9-12) C Tracks 13-16 could be used for either: 3-track 1/2" (need head) OR 4-track 1" (need head) This leaves me the three presets of the 24-track mode (but I only have 16 channels) to spread the following across: 14-track 1" IRIG instrumentation (need heads) 20-track 1/2" logging (have the heads) 40-track 1" logging (have the heads) On the logging formats, I may use the electronics from the 40-channel Dictaphone. The Dictaphone transport looks difficult to service. I'm not sure what to do, but the head assemblies plug into the electronics, so a mounting arrangement that would let me use the heads and electronics on the APR-16 transport would be interesting. What's neat about the Dictaphone electronics, is you can turn on any of the 40 channels and they sum into the audio bus. There's also a timecode channel and I have two readers that might work. For the IRIG stuff, I think I might be able to get close to the constant flux/current curves with using IEC at the bottom end and flattening out the high end with the EQ adjustments. Alas, none of the switches seem to provide a low-speed range. I used the speed readout on the remote to determine this. I didn't actually run tape. But the speed readout on the APR-5000 tracks all speeds, and tracks the two speeds on the APR-16. The speed is an issue. The manuals say you can go to -50% on the external capstan reference (just like the varispeed) but that might be able to go much farther. For IRIG having 15 and 30 is useful, but the trick here is to get output flat to the fairly crazy bandwidths that these machines will work at in direct mode, but you can work off speed. See http://richardhess.com/tapetips/?page_id=18 for typical bandwidth capabilities. 15 in/s to 15/32 in/s is a 32:1 speed reduction, so we cannot easily do that in software alone. IRIG cannot do full-bandwidth, so it's only for recovering voice tracks, not full-bandwidth instrumentation tracks. Any thoughts, support, parts, etc. for this would be of great help. Pieces are good. It looks as if the MCI head base plates will come close to fitting the APR. I may do one head assembly a year or something like that. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #880 From: "sonicdocumentation" Date: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:57 am Subject: can't save user presets sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email hello all! i recently purchased a sony apr5000, and i have had no luck in aligning it. i can't save the user presets when i try to align the machine. every time i turn it off and back on, the alignment panel display reads preset error. is this because the lithium battery is dead? if so, what is the part number for the battery, and where would i get one? thanks, daniel Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #881 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:56 pm Subject: Re: can't save user presets richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Daniel, Just to clarify after we talked on the phone. You think the presets are being saved as the display blanks as normal when you save the preset, but after a power cycle, it comes back with a preset error. I suspect it's the lithium battery under the control panel, but I'm not 100% sure. I don't think the manual addresses this. Remember, this is soldered in. DigiKey.com has lots of batteries, but I haven't tried to cross this one. Can anyone confirm that it might be the lithium battery OR suggest another plausible suggestion? Anyone have a cross from DigiKey or elsewhere for the tabbed, solder-in battery? Cheers, Richard At 11:57 AM 2/24/2006, sonicdocumentation wrote: >hello all! > >i recently purchased a sony apr5000, and i have had no luck in >aligning it. i can't save the user presets when i try to align the >machine. every time i turn it off and back on, the alignment panel >display reads preset error. > >is this because the lithium battery is dead? if so, what is the part >number for the battery, and where would i get one? > >thanks, >daniel > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #882 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:10 am Subject: RE: can't save user presets ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I haven't a cross for the battery, although I expect you are correct. I admit I'd be at the local Fry's or Digikey or whatever for the battery. Anything remotely close physically with the correct voltage is going to work fine... but PLEASE use the correct soldering tools, solder-sucker, etc. to do this with. If you aren't confident of your soldering abilities get someone to do it that is. Cooking the lands off the board isn't going to help you...and many techs are NOT the end-all when it comes to soldering. Be careful !! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:57 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] can't save user presets Hi, Daniel, Just to clarify after we talked on the phone. You think the presets are being saved as the display blanks as normal when you save the preset, but after a power cycle, it comes back with a preset error. I suspect it's the lithium battery under the control panel, but I'm not 100% sure. I don't think the manual addresses this. Remember, this is soldered in. DigiKey.com has lots of batteries, but I haven't tried to cross this one. Can anyone confirm that it might be the lithium battery OR suggest another plausible suggestion? Anyone have a cross from DigiKey or elsewhere for the tabbed, solder-in battery? Cheers, Richard At 11:57 AM 2/24/2006, sonicdocumentation wrote: >hello all! > >i recently purchased a sony apr5000, and i have had no luck in >aligning it. i can't save the user presets when i try to align the >machine. every time i turn it off and back on, the alignment panel >display reads preset error. > >is this because the lithium battery is dead? if so, what is the part >number for the battery, and where would i get one? > >thanks, >daniel > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #883 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:26 pm Subject: need an edu video? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hello Everyone! I hope you don't mind if I ask this here, but I have been wondering if anyone would be interested in a DAT, ADAT, DTRS educational video. This video would cover the basics, from common problems to 'scope connections to do your own analysis and alignment (mostly to determine why a tape might be problematic and if the machine could be tweaked to accomodate). And of course, what would be a fair price? I've been servicing these machines for over ten years. Sincerely, eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #884 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:34 pm Subject: Re: need an edu video? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, Sorry to delay in getting back to you, but I think this is a wonderful idea and I'm glad you chose to announce it here. I would find it fascinating to learn how to adjust an SV-3800, a DA-38, and an XT-20 to accommodate off-standard-recorded tapes. I don' t know how much I'd pay for the video set, but it would be worth something. What did you have in mind charging? Cheers, Richard At 11:26 PM 2/27/2006, eddie ciletti wrote: >Hello Everyone! > >I hope you don't mind if I ask this here, but I have been wondering if >anyone would be interested in a DAT, ADAT, DTRS educational video. This >video would cover the basics, from common problems to 'scope connections >to do your own analysis and alignment (mostly to determine why a tape >might be problematic and if the machine could be tweaked to accomodate). > >And of course, what would be a fair price? I've been servicing these >machines for over ten years. > >Sincerely, > >eddie ciletti Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #885 From: "Blantone Music" Date: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:20 pm Subject: Re: need an edu video? blanton_stephen Offline Send Email hi, eddie, et al. i own DAT and ADAT, and i'm not totally averse to getting inside either to do some tech tweaking if not an overly burdensome task...i am curious as to what a video like this would cost...dollar down/dollar a week? ;) regards, stephen www.blantonemusic.com www.vinylrecordstocd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: eddie ciletti To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:26 PM Subject: [sony_apr] need an edu video? Hello Everyone! I hope you don't mind if I ask this here, but I have been wondering if anyone would be interested in a DAT, ADAT, DTRS educational video. This video would cover the basics, from common problems to 'scope connections to do your own analysis and alignment (mostly to determine why a tape might be problematic and if the machine could be tweaked to accomodate). And of course, what would be a fair price? I've been servicing these machines for over ten years. Sincerely, eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #886 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:39 pm Subject: Re: need an edu video? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Dear Richard, Stephen et al , Back in the day (1999) it was my intention to create of video for then "current" users of digital audio tape in the various cassette packages. My move from new York City to the Twin Cities, plus becoming a parent, slowed me down a bit so that now, just a handful of people now have this "need." I know this handful is likely to be a bit more bold, technically inclined and test equipment enabled. So, of course your interest and your input would greatly help me tailor the project to your needs. Since the audience is smaller, the expected sales would determine the price, so far, $100 per DVD comes to mind. Even that I would like your feedback on. I realize that this users group is very much into providing such support and consultation gratis, so by no means do I want to offend anyone. It's just that you can imagine the work involved. I have also thought about providing value-added services to purchasers such as machine-specific support / consultation and/or a discount on a future machine repair. Thanks for your interest and for allowing me to think out loud. sincerely, eddie ciletti manhattan sound technicians www.tangible-technology.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #887 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 12:35 am Subject: Running the speed down - Richard's continuing insanity - Findings so far... richardlhess Offline Send Email When we last left the saga of Richard's research and scheming as to how to reduce the number of tape pullers in his facility, we had hoped that the APR-series motors could be run very, very slowly with an external drive signal. Well, it doesn't seem to work. What I was able to do was to get the motor down to 1.88 in/s, but not much below that. Since we can get to 1.88 in/s via varispeed on the APR-5000, this is much less attractive to do. As most of you know, the motor runs at normal speed with a ref input of 19,200 Hz. At 15 in/s, I was able to get the machine down to 1.88 in/s by putting in a ref square wave of 2400 Hz. Anything lower than that and severe cogging and instability was evident. At 7.5 in/s, the cogging set in again below 4800 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) At 3.75 in/s, the cogging set in again below 9600 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) I didn't have the heart to try this on the APR-16. I also found out that you cannot concatenate varispeed with external reference. If you have an external reference connected and you switch to varispeed, that then disables the external reference and you need to drive the switch pin high and then low again. Fortunately, the enable ext reference is a closure to ground in all cases, so I'm wiring this to a TRS jack and inserting a TS plug, shorting ring to sleeve, so switchover is automatic. Works the same way on the A810. So, for logging repro, it looks as if it makes sense to try and get the Dictaphone logging recorder working WHEN SOMEONE ASKS. Anyway, that means spending less money on it. I'll be able to do audio recovery from 1.88-30 in/s IRIG 1/2" 7-channel tapes and that's a plus, plus full 15/16 to 60 in/s with the Racal Store 4DS with both Direct and FM electronics for 1/4" IRIG-like tapes. So, if the APR-16 DOES work like the APR-5000 and can be driven to 1.88 in/s, I can still do logging tapes as I did with the cassettes recently: repro'd them at 3.75 in/s in the Tascam 234, recorded at 88.2, played back at 22.05 and then resampled to 44.1 so I could hear it. (RME Multifaces don't like 22.05). I then did the repair (including going to analog on the APR-16 in 1/2" 4-channel mode as I didn't have any software that could apply an arbitrary changing speed fix to the tapes--and the big varispeed knob on the APR-16 did wonders in real time recording it back in. Recorded it at 30 in/s and on one segment got down to 12 in/s or so. I then pieced it all together and downsampled to 22.05, played it out at 88.2 and recorded it back to the Tascam! So, using the same philosophy, I could use the APR-16 to do logging tapes at 15/32. Anyway, it's not a huge priority as the one job I was chasing went away, but I get all sorts of odd calls and emails, and most clients want to hear that you're ready to do what they want/need. It was fun using vintage test equipment to play with this. The newest item was an early-to-mid 1970s HP 5381A frequency counter, then a 1960s HP 3300A function generator. My favourite piece is the Tek 453 scope. It was the first "real" scope I got to play with (not the same serial number) in 1968. Previously, I had seen a bunch of sync sweep scopes, not triggered ones. Anyway. Useful, but not as flexible as I thought. The servos do work well around 19,200 and respond well to knob twiddling, so the frequency doubler PhaseLockLoop project is still on. That way, I can use the APRs with the Otari EC401 resolver which puts out a 9600 Hz capstan reference. Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #888 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 12:50 am Subject: Another clean-looking APR on eBay - Chicago area richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7394879821 APR-5003 or 5003V Enjoy! Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #889 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 12:46 am Subject: Re: need an edu video? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, I think that $100 per DVD or DVD set to cover one machine is probably fair if a bit steep, I understand the pricing issues. Although, perhaps the whole thing could be done on two DVDs: Basics would be one DVD and then machine-specific tweaks would be the other. I think my choices would be for tweaks: DA-38 (Tascam DTRS) XT-20 (Alesis ADAT) SV-3800 (Panasonic DAT) DTC-670 (Sony DAT) I like the "discount on future repairs" you mean when we follow the videos to the best of our ability and break the stooopid thing and THEN send it to you? It's like the plumber who said, I love giving free advice to homeowners. They get in so far, mess it up, and then I get to charge more to fix it. BaDUM! Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #890 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 12:45 am Subject: Re: Running the speed down - Richard's continuing insanity - Findings so far... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Richard This reminded me of a micro-cassette project that made me wish I had an open reel machine to play cassette tape. I transferred the tape to a compact cassette shell, then changed the capstan motor shaft to allow 15/16 operation. The only downside was the backwards transfer (and azimuth adjustment). I could have used the original transport the tapes were recorded on, but the tape path was so "variable" and the electronics had no headroom, although in hindsight, I think the problem was partially due to using rechargeable rather than standard alkaline cells. eddie c. > When we last left the saga of Richard's research and scheming as to > how to reduce the number of tape pullers in his facility, we had > hoped that the APR-series motors could be run very, very slowly with > an external drive signal. Well, it doesn't seem to work. > > What I was able to do was to get the motor down to 1.88 in/s, but not > much below that. Since we can get to 1.88 in/s via varispeed on the > APR-5000, this is much less attractive to do. > > As most of you know, the motor runs at normal speed with a ref input > of 19,200 Hz. > > At 15 in/s, I was able to get the machine down to 1.88 in/s by > putting in a ref square wave of 2400 Hz. Anything lower than that and > severe cogging and instability was evident. > > At 7.5 in/s, the cogging set in again below 4800 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) > > At 3.75 in/s, the cogging set in again below 9600 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) > > I didn't have the heart to try this on the APR-16. > > I also found out that you cannot concatenate varispeed with external > reference. If you have an external reference connected and you switch > to varispeed, that then disables the external reference and you need > to drive the switch pin high and then low again. > > Fortunately, the enable ext reference is a closure to ground in all > cases, so I'm wiring this to a TRS jack and inserting a TS plug, > shorting ring to sleeve, so switchover is automatic. Works the same > way on the A810. > > So, for logging repro, it looks as if it makes sense to try and get > the Dictaphone logging recorder working WHEN SOMEONE ASKS. Anyway, > that means spending less money on it. > > I'll be able to do audio recovery from 1.88-30 in/s IRIG 1/2" > 7-channel tapes and that's a plus, plus full 15/16 to 60 in/s with > the Racal Store 4DS with both Direct and FM electronics for 1/4" > IRIG-like tapes. > > So, if the APR-16 DOES work like the APR-5000 and can be driven to > 1.88 in/s, I can still do logging tapes as I did with the cassettes > recently: repro'd them at 3.75 in/s in the Tascam 234, recorded at > 88.2, played back at 22.05 and then resampled to 44.1 so I could hear > it. (RME Multifaces don't like 22.05). > > I then did the repair (including going to analog on the APR-16 in > 1/2" 4-channel mode as I didn't have any software that could apply an > arbitrary changing speed fix to the tapes--and the big varispeed knob > on the APR-16 did wonders in real time recording it back in. Recorded > it at 30 in/s and on one segment got down to 12 in/s or so. > > I then pieced it all together and downsampled to 22.05, played it out > at 88.2 and recorded it back to the Tascam! > > So, using the same philosophy, I could use the APR-16 to do logging > tapes at 15/32. > > Anyway, it's not a huge priority as the one job I was chasing went > away, but I get all sorts of odd calls and emails, and most clients > want to hear that you're ready to do what they want/need. > > It was fun using vintage test equipment to play with this. The newest > item was an early-to-mid 1970s HP 5381A frequency counter, then a > 1960s HP 3300A function generator. My favourite piece is the Tek 453 > scope. It was the first "real" scope I got to play with (not the same > serial number) in 1968. Previously, I had seen a bunch of sync sweep > scopes, not triggered ones. > > Anyway. Useful, but not as flexible as I thought. The servos do work > well around 19,200 and respond well to knob twiddling, so the > frequency doubler PhaseLockLoop project is still on. That way, I can > use the APRs with the Otari EC401 resolver which puts out a 9600 Hz > capstan reference. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #891 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 1:56 am Subject: Re: need an edu video? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Richard, I'll keep all of this in mind. Feel free to add things to the list. ec > Hi, Eddie, > > I think that $100 per DVD or DVD set to cover one machine is probably > fair if a bit steep, I understand the pricing issues. Although, > perhaps the whole thing could be done on two DVDs: > > Basics would be one DVD and then machine-specific tweaks would be the other. > > I think my choices would be for tweaks: > DA-38 (Tascam DTRS) > XT-20 (Alesis ADAT) > SV-3800 (Panasonic DAT) > DTC-670 (Sony DAT) > > I like the "discount on future repairs" you mean when we follow the > videos to the best of our ability and break the stooopid thing and > THEN send it to you? > > It's like the plumber who said, I love giving free advice to > homeowners. They get in so far, mess it up, and then I get to charge > more to fix it. BaDUM! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #892 From: Audio Synergy Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 4:02 am Subject: Re: need an edu video Or DVD ! audiosynergy Offline Send Email Eddie, this is a fantastic Idea...........................Go for it! I'm sure that many people, not only SONY forum members would like this knowledge in Stone, maybe a DVD is the way to Go! (For your protection & the diminishing use of VCR's for Play Record TV Channels.) Best to all Jazz many people such as those On 01/03/2006, at 9:34 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > Hi, Eddie, > > Sorry to delay in getting back to you, but I think this is a > wonderful idea and I'm glad you chose to announce it here. > > I would find it fascinating to learn how to adjust an SV-3800, a > DA-38, and an XT-20 to accommodate off-standard-recorded tapes. > > I don' t know how much I'd pay for the video set, but it would be > worth something. What did you have in mind charging? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:26 PM 2/27/2006, eddie ciletti wrote: > >Hello Everyone! > > > >I hope you don't mind if I ask this here, but I have been wondering > if > >anyone would be interested in a DAT, ADAT, DTRS educational video. > This > >video would cover the basics, from common problems to 'scope > connections > >to do your own analysis and alignment (mostly to determine why a tape > >might be problematic and if the machine could be tweaked to > accomodate). > > > >And of course, what would be a fair price? I've been servicing these > >machines for over ten years. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >eddie ciletti > > Tape Restoration Seminar:   MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess                  email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada      (905) 713 6733    1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Sony digital recorders > Sony voice recorders > Tape recorders > > Audio recorder > Sony video recorder > Sony cd recorders > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > â–ª  Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. >  > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #893 From: Audio Synergy Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 5:05 am Subject: Re: need an edu video? audiosynergy Offline Send Email Eddie, I'd be happy to help in any way, Jazz. PS I do have plenty of Sony 5003V S/ware Chips & Rom chips if people are in need or looking, i will catalog them Jazz. On 01/03/2006, at 3:39 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > Dear Richard, Stephen et al , > > Back in the day (1999) it was my intention to create of video for > then "current" users of digital audio tape in the various cassette > packages. My move from new York City to the Twin Cities, plus > becoming a parent, slowed me down a bit so that now, just a handful of > people now have this "need." I know this handful is likely to be a > bit more bold, technically inclined and test equipment enabled. So, > of course your interest and your input would greatly help me tailor > the project to your needs. > > Since the audience is smaller, the expected sales would determine the > price, so far, $100 per DVD comes to mind. Even that I would like > your feedback on. I realize that this users group is very much into > providing such support and consultation gratis, so by no means do I > want to offend anyone. It's just that you can imagine the work > involved. I have also thought about providing value-added services to > purchasers such as machine-specific support / consultation and/or a > discount on a future machine repair. > > Thanks for your interest and for allowing me to think out loud. > > sincerely, > eddie ciletti > manhattan sound technicians > www.tangible-technology.com > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > â–ª  Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. >  > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #894 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 8:28 am Subject: Re: Running the speed down - Richard's continuing insanity - Findings so far... Mark4@... Send Email This is good info for my own logger project, Richard. Thanks! Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard L. Hess" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Running the speed down - Richard's continuing insanity - Findings so far... > When we last left the saga of Richard's research and scheming as to > how to reduce the number of tape pullers in his facility, we had > hoped that the APR-series motors could be run very, very slowly with > an external drive signal. Well, it doesn't seem to work. > > What I was able to do was to get the motor down to 1.88 in/s, but not > much below that. Since we can get to 1.88 in/s via varispeed on the > APR-5000, this is much less attractive to do. > > As most of you know, the motor runs at normal speed with a ref input > of 19,200 Hz. > > At 15 in/s, I was able to get the machine down to 1.88 in/s by > putting in a ref square wave of 2400 Hz. Anything lower than that and > severe cogging and instability was evident. > > At 7.5 in/s, the cogging set in again below 4800 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) > > At 3.75 in/s, the cogging set in again below 9600 Hz (or 1.88 in/s) > > I didn't have the heart to try this on the APR-16. > > I also found out that you cannot concatenate varispeed with external > reference. If you have an external reference connected and you switch > to varispeed, that then disables the external reference and you need > to drive the switch pin high and then low again. > > Fortunately, the enable ext reference is a closure to ground in all > cases, so I'm wiring this to a TRS jack and inserting a TS plug, > shorting ring to sleeve, so switchover is automatic. Works the same > way on the A810. > > So, for logging repro, it looks as if it makes sense to try and get > the Dictaphone logging recorder working WHEN SOMEONE ASKS. Anyway, > that means spending less money on it. > > I'll be able to do audio recovery from 1.88-30 in/s IRIG 1/2" > 7-channel tapes and that's a plus, plus full 15/16 to 60 in/s with > the Racal Store 4DS with both Direct and FM electronics for 1/4" > IRIG-like tapes. > > So, if the APR-16 DOES work like the APR-5000 and can be driven to > 1.88 in/s, I can still do logging tapes as I did with the cassettes > recently: repro'd them at 3.75 in/s in the Tascam 234, recorded at > 88.2, played back at 22.05 and then resampled to 44.1 so I could hear > it. (RME Multifaces don't like 22.05). > > I then did the repair (including going to analog on the APR-16 in > 1/2" 4-channel mode as I didn't have any software that could apply an > arbitrary changing speed fix to the tapes--and the big varispeed knob > on the APR-16 did wonders in real time recording it back in. Recorded > it at 30 in/s and on one segment got down to 12 in/s or so. > > I then pieced it all together and downsampled to 22.05, played it out > at 88.2 and recorded it back to the Tascam! > > So, using the same philosophy, I could use the APR-16 to do logging > tapes at 15/32. > > Anyway, it's not a huge priority as the one job I was chasing went > away, but I get all sorts of odd calls and emails, and most clients > want to hear that you're ready to do what they want/need. > > It was fun using vintage test equipment to play with this. The newest > item was an early-to-mid 1970s HP 5381A frequency counter, then a > 1960s HP 3300A function generator. My favourite piece is the Tek 453 > scope. It was the first "real" scope I got to play with (not the same > serial number) in 1968. Previously, I had seen a bunch of sync sweep > scopes, not triggered ones. > > Anyway. Useful, but not as flexible as I thought. The servos do work > well around 19,200 and respond well to knob twiddling, so the > frequency doubler PhaseLockLoop project is still on. That way, I can > use the APRs with the Otari EC401 resolver which puts out a 9600 Hz > capstan reference. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #895 From: "Blantone Music" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 12:09 pm Subject: Re: need an edu video? blanton_stephen Offline Send Email eddie, my choices, would be for the xt20, as i own three of them, and a tascam da40... www.blantonemusic.com www.vinylrecordstocd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] need an edu video? Hi, Eddie, I think that $100 per DVD or DVD set to cover one machine is probably fair if a bit steep, I understand the pricing issues. Although, perhaps the whole thing could be done on two DVDs: Basics would be one DVD and then machine-specific tweaks would be the other. I think my choices would be for tweaks: DA-38 (Tascam DTRS) XT-20 (Alesis ADAT) SV-3800 (Panasonic DAT) DTC-670 (Sony DAT) I like the "discount on future repairs" you mean when we follow the videos to the best of our ability and break the stooopid thing and THEN send it to you? It's like the plumber who said, I love giving free advice to homeowners. They get in so far, mess it up, and then I get to charge more to fix it. BaDUM! Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #896 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 1, 2006 7:24 pm Subject: Running the speed down - Richard's continuing insanity - APR-16 richardlhess Offline Send Email In my last message, I discussed the abilities of the APR-5000 to run at slower speeds and it seems as if there are several pathways to get THAT machine (5000) down to 1.88 in/s. I have done many transfers using the -50% varispeed method and I have an MRL 1.88 in/s test tape that I try to cal the machine but I start seeing rolloff at about 8kHz. I think a narrower gap repro head might be of some use there. But the stuff sounds reasonably good, considering, and even the Tandbergs didn't go much above 8 kHz at 1.88 in/s. Preset "3" on the control panel at 3.75 is actually the 1.88 in/s cal from the MRL test tape. Today I tried the variable speed on the APR-16. It worked as advertised but it wouldn't go much below 3.75 in/s (set at 15 in/s) before severe cogging took place. This is still 8x logging speed which means if I digitize at 96 ks/s I could play back at 12 ks/s with roughly a 6 kHz bandwidth from the digitization and probably less than that taking into account gap loss and repro card response. It would still be intelligible and my recollection from playing some of these tapes when they were new in the 1970s was the audio was barely intelligible. But, there are other issues -- like no logging tapes on the horizon at the moment -- that will probably cause me to shelve this project now that I know the parameters. I will design the little box to go between my Otari EC-401 resolver and a variety of tape machines. The current plan for the box is: INPUT section: 9600 external input from resolver or local 9600 Hz oscillator. The 9600 Hz oscillator would have possibly three modes: internal trim, external trim, external varispeed--with a fairly wide range. After selecting one of the two inputs, this would feed the following: -- A PLL -- The output via the output selector switch -- A progammable divider/counter. The PLL would have a 2x and 4x switchable divider in its feedback loop The divider/counter would be programmable to /2, /4, and /8. So, starting with the 9600, the PLL will provide either 19,200 or 38,400 (probably useless, but why not) Then the 9600 could be passed straight through Finally the divider would provide 4800, 2400, or 1200 Hz. This is probably more flexibility than I need. With the APRs, the 1200 is useless. I suspect the 38,400 is only marginally useful as well - but the APR-16 does seem to lock and is stable at 60 in/s. Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #897 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Thu Mar 2, 2006 6:56 am Subject: Re: Another clean-looking APR on eBay - Chicago area Faroutrecording@... Send Email In a message dated 2/28/2006 11:52:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, arclists@... writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7394879821 APR-5003 or 5003V Hey group! The seller for this (Larry Sherman) is the guy I bought my 3 machines from. He's a nice guy, and the machines are in excellent condition. He even threw in a parts machine with my purchase of 3 APR5003v's (two with mauals), 3 stands, two remotes with cables, two Dolby 361 units (with manuals), and some miscellaneous supplies. His studio is right in Chicago, and they've been putting out records for around 20 years! I Just thought I'd confirm that he's a stand up guy, and that his machines are in the condition he says they are. I know he's not thrilled about shipping them though! I drove up to pick up mine. Anyone with more questions can email me back. Thanks, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording KC, MO faroutrecording@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #898 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Thu Mar 2, 2006 1:04 pm Subject: Re: Another clean-looking APR on eBay - Chicago area sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email I placed a bid on the machine, and I hope that it doesn't go for too much, since it is local pickup only. The APR 5000 that I just got has a few problems with it including the need for a relap. The reel motors have also started making some crazy sounds during playback and record, and I fear that an expensive repair in order. Hopefully this machine works out, and I'll just have a spair for parts. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 3/2/06, Faroutrecording@... wrote: In a message dated 2/28/2006 11:52:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, arclists@... writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7394879821 APR-5003 or 5003V Hey group! The seller for this (Larry Sherman) is the guy I bought my 3 machines from. He's a nice guy, and the machines are in excellent condition. He even threw in a parts machine with my purchase of 3 APR5003v's (two with mauals), 3 stands, two remotes with cables, two Dolby 361 units (with manuals), and some miscellaneous supplies. His studio is right in Chicago, and they've been putting out records for around 20 years! I Just thought I'd confirm that he's a stand up guy, and that his machines are in the condition he says they are. I know he's not thrilled about shipping them though! I drove up to pick up mine. Anyone with more questions can email me back. Thanks, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording KC, MO faroutrecording@... YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #899 From: "mci_mumby" Date: Sun Mar 5, 2006 3:25 pm Subject: JH16 mci_mumby Offline Send Email Greetings, I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is fine. Thanks in advance for any help on this. John Nelson jn@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #900 From: Audio Synergy Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 3:40 am Subject: Re: JH16 audiosynergy Offline Send Email I can certainly say the JH-16/24 TRK was, has & is the best, most beefy @15IPS sounding 24 track I've ever used, it sounds like a process of elimination, make sure the sensor is clean and the tape is flowing smoothly, Eddie or a tech is going to be your best bet here, though I know rule 1 with these JH16's is always align & clean, hey, at least you AL MK3 is working.........?........... or is iT? Check to see all the cabling and pin assortment is correct. Best Jazz. > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Sony digital recorders > Sony voice recorders > Tape recorders > > Audio recorder > Sony video recorder > Sony cd recorders > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > â–ª  Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. >  > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #901 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:26 pm Subject: Richard has started a Tape Restoration Blog richardlhess Offline Send Email It seems as if there were many good ideas flowing to various specific email lists lately and some of what I was writing might benefit people who don't have time to read all the email lists I try and get through every day. It also seems that some of the projects I'm working on are cross-platform and, for example, equally involve Studer and Sony tape machines. The restoration reflect things which I'm involved with and that I'd like to share with other restorers and archivists. The Restoration Notes Blog is at http://www.richardhess.com/notes/ I have the RSS feed enabled on the Blog, so if you want to keep track of updates, that might be a way to go. I'm experimenting with Snarfer http://www.snarfware.com/ if you want a suggestion for a Windows RSS tool. Anyway, please provide feedback as to whether this is useful. Also, ideas for articles would be appreciated...no promises, however. So far the topics cover Studer A810, Sony APR-5000 and APR-16/24, tool esoterica, and loading C-0 cassette shells. Watch for more information on resolving pilot tracks sometime in the future and Sony PR-150 tape's degradation (yes, I have another reel of that stuff in to transfer). Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #902 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:46 pm Subject: Re: JH16 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Audio Synergy I'm not sure if the "Eddie" mentioned in the next paragraph is me or not, but I am responding. eddie ciletti 651-554-0304  wrote: I can certainly say the JH-16/24 TRK was, has & is the best, most beefy @15IPS sounding 24 track I've ever used, it sounds like a process of elimination, make sure the sensor is clean and the tape is flowing smoothly, Eddie or a tech is going to be your best bet here, though I know rule 1 with these JH16's is always align & clean, hey, at least you AL MK3 is working.........?........... or is iT? Check to see all the cabling and pin assortment is correct. Best Jazz. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS â–ª  Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web.  ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #903 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Mar 6, 2006 11:44 pm Subject: Re: Richard has started a Tape Restoration Blog eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard this is a very nice blog, I especially liked the TOOL LADY link. I was not happy with Hozan, so I will check her out. I am also goign to hook a friend up with this group as he is having Studer A810 capstan motor problems. eddie ciletti L. Hess wrote: > It seems as if there were many good ideas flowing to various specific > email lists lately and some of what I was writing might benefit > people who don't have time to read all the email lists I try and get > through every day. It also seems that some of the projects I'm > working on are cross-platform and, for example, equally involve > Studer and Sony tape machines. The restoration reflect things which > I'm involved with and that I'd like to share with other restorers and > archivists. > > The Restoration Notes Blog is at http://www.richardhess.com/notes/ > > I have the RSS feed enabled on the Blog, so if you want to keep track > of updates, that might be a way to go. I'm experimenting with Snarfer > http://www.snarfware.com/ if you want a suggestion for a Windows RSS tool. > > Anyway, please provide feedback as to whether this is useful. Also, > ideas for articles would be appreciated...no promises, however. > > So far the topics cover Studer A810, Sony APR-5000 and APR-16/24, > tool esoterica, and loading C-0 cassette shells. Watch for more > information on resolving pilot tracks sometime in the future and Sony > PR-150 tape's degradation (yes, I have another reel of that stuff in > to transfer). > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #904 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Mar 7, 2006 12:50 am Subject: Re: Richard has started a Tape Restoration Blog richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Eddie--is your friend Howard Matthews from Georgia? He posted today to the Studer list, but it sounded as if he needed someone to look at the machine. At 11:44 PM 3/6/2006, eddie ciletti wrote: >Richard > >this is a very nice blog, I especially liked the TOOL LADY link. I was >not happy with Hozan, so I will check her out. > >I am also goign to hook a friend up with this group as he is having >Studer A810 capstan motor problems. > >eddie ciletti > >L. Hess wrote: > > It seems as if there were many good ideas flowing to various specific > > email lists lately and some of what I was writing might benefit > > people who don't have time to read all the email lists I try and get > > through every day. It also seems that some of the projects I'm > > working on are cross-platform and, for example, equally involve > > Studer and Sony tape machines. The restoration reflect things which > > I'm involved with and that I'd like to share with other restorers and > > archivists. > > > > The Restoration Notes Blog is at http://www.richardhess.com/notes/ > > > > I have the RSS feed enabled on the Blog, so if you want to keep track > > of updates, that might be a way to go. I'm experimenting with Snarfer > > http://www.snarfware.com/ if you want a suggestion for a Windows RSS tool. > > > > Anyway, please provide feedback as to whether this is useful. Also, > > ideas for articles would be appreciated...no promises, however. > > > > So far the topics cover Studer A810, Sony APR-5000 and APR-16/24, > > tool esoterica, and loading C-0 cassette shells. Watch for more > > information on resolving pilot tracks sometime in the future and Sony > > PR-150 tape's degradation (yes, I have another reel of that stuff in > > to transfer). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #905 From: George Utter Date: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:45 pm Subject: Re: need an edu video? gutter5030 Offline Send Email Hi Eddie, George Utter here.I am not much on tech repairs but am interested in the video you suggested for an Adat XT20.I have two and one has not worked right from the start.The interpolation light was flashing all the time and error rates were in the 100-150 range.I bought it from Sam Ash and it was 6 months before I started using it enough to realize the problem.I shipped it to Sweetwater about 2 years ago and it still had high error rates when they sent it back.Now it is useless since it now can't read format.NOFO comes up when I insert a tape.This machine has only 100 or so hours on it.I have the alesis video and have cleaned the heads and tape path.I am willing to try sending it for repair again since I paid $1700 for it.Your the only one I would want to try since I have followed your column in Mix for years and I have no doubt you can at least tell me whats wrong even if its not worth fixing.I would pay whatever the bench fees are for a reliable diagnosis.Hooking up scopes and soldering inside machines is over my head.Sincerely, G.U. eddie ciletti wrote: Hello Everyone! I hope you don't mind if I ask this here, but I have been wondering if anyone would be interested in a DAT, ADAT, DTRS educational video. This video would cover the basics, from common problems to 'scope connections to do your own analysis and alignment (mostly to determine why a tape might be problematic and if the machine could be tweaked to accomodate). And of course, what would be a fair price? I've been servicing these machines for over ten years. Sincerely, eddie ciletti Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #906 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:05 am Subject: Re: JH16 ladewd Offline Send Email If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #907 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:03 pm Subject: RE: Re: JH16 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've had a couple of really old ones needing that cap changed because it got old and the value changed (when lower).... Seems to me that I've also connected a CPU reset button there as well for a few folks who had a problem with static electricity. They kept zapping the ALIII after rolling the control room chair around on carpet in a very dry environment. The reset button allowed them to restart the processor without power cycling the machine. I tried other approaches as well, but dampening a 1" long spark enough to not cause a problem wasn't possible in the time the clients wanted to pay for. Grounding the case of the ALIII through a high voltage / high current diode and a separate ground wire also helped a good deal. Anyone trying such things as regrounding the chassis of the ALIII should never directly ground it. The ground loop that would be created will create the 'car horns' noise in the audio that was typical of an autolocator ground loop... I recommended antistatic spray for the carpet, which did help, but they couldn't seem to keep it applied consistently. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #908 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:11 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH16 bae_steve Offline Send Email Cary's correct, it was originally a 1 uf, and was later changed to a 2.2 uf. I always use a 4.7 uf. The problem is that the 8085 micro-processor power (5V) has to arrive after the rest of the circuits power up. The R/C circuit on pin 36 (?) slows the 5 Vdc. You could put a 100 uf cap in there, and all it would do is delay the turn on of the display. This 'timing' cap is the problem you described 99.99% of the time. SS -----Original Message----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:03:58 -0600 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 I've had a couple of really old ones needing that cap changed because it got old and the value changed (when lower).... Seems to me that I've also connected a CPU reset button there as well for a few folks who had a problem with static electricity. They kept zapping the ALIII after rolling the control room chair around on carpet in a very dry environment. The reset button allowed them to restart the processor without power cycling the machine. I tried other approaches as well, but dampening a 1" long spark enough to not cause a problem wasn't possible in the time the clients wanted to pay for. Grounding the case of the ALIII through a high voltage / high current diode and a separate ground wire also helped a good deal. Anyone trying such things as regrounding the chassis of the ALIII should never directly ground it. The ground loop that would be created will create the 'car horns' noise in the audio that was typical of an autolocator ground loop... I recommended antistatic spray for the carpet, which did help, but they couldn't seem to keep it applied consistently. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #909 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH16 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott I solved this problem by running a ground wire from the ALIII case to EITHER the JH-16 case or to the power outlet ground screw. eddie ciletti Phillips wrote: I've had a couple of really old ones needing that cap changed because it got old and the value changed (when lower).... Seems to me that I've also connected a CPU reset button there as well for a few folks who had a problem with static electricity. They kept zapping the ALIII after rolling the control room chair around on carpet in a very dry environment. The reset button allowed them to restart the processor without power cycling the machine. I tried other approaches as well, but dampening a 1" long spark enough to not cause a problem wasn't possible in the time the clients wanted to pay for. Grounding the case of the ALIII through a high voltage / high current diode and a separate ground wire also helped a good deal. Anyone trying such things as regrounding the chassis of the ALIII should never directly ground it. The ground loop that would be created will create the 'car horns' noise in the audio that was typical of an autolocator ground loop... I recommended antistatic spray for the carpet, which did help, but they couldn't seem to keep it applied consistently. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #910 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:26 am Subject: RE: Re: JH16 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Every time I tried this directly, I got a ground loop that made for digital noise in the audio. On the other hand, it varied with the vintage of the machine. The internal grounding of the JH-24/16 was pretty poor at best, and the running changes during the production run made for 'interesting' variations. I spent a good deal of time looking at the grounding design of these things, and discovered that there had been a number of good ideas designed in, but mostly that none of them had been carried all the way out. The result was kind of a hodge-podge that wasn't really right on any level.... resulting in a good deal of hum in the audio. Spoiled what I thought (just my opinion) was a very good, punchy sounding rock 'n roll recorder, particularly in the 'cue' mode. Again, just my personal opinion... and I own one still, along with an APR-24. The 'car horn' digital noise could also be a problem if a JH-110 remote was mounted on the same metal frame as the ALIII, if you didn't use nylon screws to hold it. Again, the ALIII / JH110 chassis-transport grounding was the issue. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:26 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 Scott I solved this problem by running a ground wire from the ALIII case to EITHER the JH-16 case or to the power outlet ground screw. eddie ciletti Phillips wrote: I've had a couple of really old ones needing that cap changed because it got old and the value changed (when lower).... Seems to me that I've also connected a CPU reset button there as well for a few folks who had a problem with static electricity. They kept zapping the ALIII after rolling the control room chair around on carpet in a very dry environment. The reset button allowed them to restart the processor without power cycling the machine. I tried other approaches as well, but dampening a 1" long spark enough to not cause a problem wasn't possible in the time the clients wanted to pay for. Grounding the case of the ALIII through a high voltage / high current diode and a separate ground wire also helped a good deal. Anyone trying such things as regrounding the chassis of the ALIII should never directly ground it. The ground loop that would be created will create the 'car horns' noise in the audio that was typical of an autolocator ground loop... I recommended antistatic spray for the carpet, which did help, but they couldn't seem to keep it applied consistently. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #911 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:29 am Subject: Re: Re: JH16 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott (et al) I don't recall having any noise issues as a result of grounding the Auto Locator's chassis to either the machine's chassis or to a grounded outlet. It definitely solved the "static-zapped-the-locator" problem. Since you did have a problem, could you detail any wiring issues - such as how XLR pin-1 was handled going to or from the machine as well as in the patch bay and at the console? thanks in advance, eddie ciletti Phillips wrote: Every time I tried this directly, I got a ground loop that made for digital noise in the audio. On the other hand, it varied with the vintage of the machine. The internal grounding of the JH-24/16 was pretty poor at best, and the running changes during the production run made for 'interesting' variations. I spent a good deal of time looking at the grounding design of these things, and discovered that there had been a number of good ideas designed in, but mostly that none of them had been carried all the way out. The result was kind of a hodge-podge that wasn't really right on any level.... resulting in a good deal of hum in the audio. Spoiled what I thought (just my opinion) was a very good, punchy sounding rock 'n roll recorder, particularly in the 'cue' mode. Again, just my personal opinion... and I own one still, along with an APR-24. The 'car horn' digital noise could also be a problem if a JH-110 remote was mounted on the same metal frame as the ALIII, if you didn't use nylon screws to hold it. Again, the ALIII / JH110 chassis-transport grounding was the issue. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:26 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 Scott I solved this problem by running a ground wire from the ALIII case to EITHER the JH-16 case or to the power outlet ground screw. eddie ciletti Phillips wrote: I've had a couple of really old ones needing that cap changed because it got old and the value changed (when lower).... Seems to me that I've also connected a CPU reset button there as well for a few folks who had a problem with static electricity. They kept zapping the ALIII after rolling the control room chair around on carpet in a very dry environment. The reset button allowed them to restart the processor without power cycling the machine. I tried other approaches as well, but dampening a 1" long spark enough to not cause a problem wasn't possible in the time the clients wanted to pay for. Grounding the case of the ALIII through a high voltage / high current diode and a separate ground wire also helped a good deal. Anyone trying such things as regrounding the chassis of the ALIII should never directly ground it. The ground loop that would be created will create the 'car horns' noise in the audio that was typical of an autolocator ground loop... I recommended antistatic spray for the carpet, which did help, but they couldn't seem to keep it applied consistently. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH16 If I remember correctly, there is a 1uf cap on the reset line of the AL processor board. Change it to a 2.2uf and see if this buys you anything. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "mci_mumby" wrote: > > Greetings, > I'm experiencing a situation with my JH16-24 track and wondered if > anyone on the list might be able to advise me where to look. > Essentially, on start up sometimes the AL III will show only one zero > in each window and if a tape is in the tape sense device on the > machine, it will start playing. I have to turn it off and back on a few > times until all the locate position numbers come on, then everything is > fine. > Thanks in advance for any help on this. > John Nelson > jn@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #912 From: "mci_mumby" Date: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:24 pm Subject: MCI JH16-24 mci_mumby Offline Send Email Much appreciation to everyone who responded on the ALlll startup problems. I'll make the suggested changes and report the results. Thanks, John Nelson Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #913 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:45 pm Subject: Audio Recordings are an endangered species... richardlhess Offline Send Email from Federal Computer Week Audio recordings are an endangered species Preservationists say policy-makers should be more alarmed about the losses http://www.fcw.com/article92802-04-03-06-Print Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #914 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:31 pm Subject: Re: Audio Recordings are an endangered species... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard funny you should send this (and I should get it). I've been teaching for a year and have suggested an archival class . The polite nods haven't yet turned into a syllabus yet... L. Hess wrote: > from Federal Computer Week > > Audio recordings are an endangered species > > > Preservationists say policy-makers should be more alarmed about the losses > > http://www.fcw.com/article92802-04-03-06-Print > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #915 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:51 pm Subject: Re: Audio Recordings are an endangered species... paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Thanks very much for forwarding this article, Richard. Does anyone have ideas or recommendations for methods of safely storing small numbers of reels of audio tape in a limited space? For example, I am wondering if a small portable refrigerator in combination with bulk silica gel to remove the moisture might be an effective solution? I live in the Pacific Northwest where, although our temperatures are mild, rarely getting above 75F (24C), we average 158 days of measurable rain and 226 days of some cloud cover per year. The tape I have (Emtec 911) is relatively new, purchased about a year and a half ago, but when I peruse the articles and charts on Richard's excellent website, I get more and more worried about my current storage methods (or lack thereof). Thank you, Paul McCulloh Seattle, Washington --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > from Federal Computer Week > > Audio recordings are an endangered species > > > Preservationists say policy-makers should be more alarmed about the losses > > http://www.fcw.com/article92802-04-03-06-Print > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #916 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:03 am Subject: Re: Re: Audio Recordings are an endangered species... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Paul, Our house is centally air conditioned and we spend money in the summer running a dehumidifer as well. The basement typically stays below 22C and below 45% RH. As this house is relatively new to us, we still need to understand the management of temperature and humidity. Since the house is 20 years old, the gas company is recommending a new HVAC plant within the next few years. Oh well. At 03:51 PM 4/11/2006, you wrote: >Thanks very much for forwarding this article, Richard. > >Does anyone have ideas or recommendations for methods of safely >storing small numbers of reels of audio tape in a limited space? >For example, I am wondering if a small portable refrigerator in >combination with bulk silica gel to remove the moisture might be an >effective solution? I live in the Pacific Northwest where, although >our temperatures are mild, rarely getting above 75F (24C), we >average 158 days of measurable rain and 226 days of some cloud cover >per year. The tape I have (Emtec 911) is relatively new, purchased >about a year and a half ago, but when I peruse the articles and >charts on Richard's excellent website, I get more and more worried >about my current storage methods (or lack thereof). > >Thank you, > >Paul McCulloh >Seattle, Washington > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" >wrote: > > > > from Federal Computer Week > > > > Audio recordings are an endangered species > > > > > > Preservationists say policy-makers should be more alarmed about >the losses > > > > http://www.fcw.com/article92802-04-03-06-Print > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #917 From: "hcooley2" Date: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:19 pm Subject: APR -24 hcooley2 Offline Send Email I have recently purchased an APR-24 with about 4,000 hours on it. The heads look good and the machine shuttles tape well. I'm presently having it wired into my console so I haven't listened to it yet. I have two questions for the group: 1) some of the track switches on the autolocator seem to be difficult to engage. Is there any way to clean them? I diassembled the locator as far as I could and I could get them to work much better..... and (2) I'm about to purchase an MRL 2 speed alignment tape. (this is the short one that is cheaper)As you know they come in a variety of test tones...anyone have any thoughts on which one is best for this machine? You can see the choices at http://home.flash.net/~mrltapes/pubsms2a.pdf thanks, Ward Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #918 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:02 pm Subject: Re: APR -24 ladewd Offline Send Email If you can find the switches, replace them. You can also use switches for the Sony PCM3348 and 3348HR remotes, but the LED colors don't quite match. I use the 2 frequency short alignment tape. Just 1K and 10K. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "hcooley2" wrote: > > I have recently purchased an APR-24 with about 4,000 hours on it. The > heads look good and the machine shuttles tape well. I'm presently > having it wired into my console so I haven't listened to it yet. > I have two questions for the group: 1) some of the track switches on > the autolocator seem to be difficult to engage. Is there any way to > clean them? I diassembled the locator as far as I could and I could > get them to work much better..... > > and > > (2) I'm about to purchase an MRL 2 speed alignment tape. (this is the > short one that is cheaper)As you know they come in a variety of test > tones...anyone have any thoughts on which one is best for this > machine? You can see the choices at > http://home.flash.net/~mrltapes/pubsms2a.pdf > > thanks, > > Ward > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #919 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 4, 2006 12:43 am Subject: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7412136448 Watch the seller's feedback. It's lower than average. It's in Chicago with a BIN of $100. Cheers, Richard Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #920 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Thu May 4, 2006 9:24 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay Faroutrecording@... Send Email In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:49:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, arclists@... writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7412136448 Watch the seller's feedback. It's lower than average. It's in Chicago with a BIN of $100. Hey group...again, this is the guy that I bought my machines from (he had another 5003 up there about a month ago, and it was mentioned to the group). He's a really nice guy, with quality equipment. I don't know why he has the low approval rating, but I consider him to be a reputable dude. He's about 60 years old and has been running a studio for a really long time (and has a couple of platinum dance cuts on the market) Anyway, his name is Larry Sherman, and on a small item like this that he has to ship, I would expect there to be no problems. I drove to Chicago to check out and pick up my apr5003v's because the crating and shipping would have made the purchase difficult otherwise (I bought 3 of them with stands, two remotes and a couple of model 361 dolby units...he even threw in a parts machine for free!). Feel free to hit me up with any questions you have about Larry, but I can assure you the item is in working order and in the condition he has indicated (and that you will get it!) BTW: What does this card do? Thanks again, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #921 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu May 4, 2006 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay bae_steve Offline Send Email It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS -----Original Message----- From: Faroutrecording@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 4 May 2006 13:24:57 EDT Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:49:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, arclists@... writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7412136448 Watch the seller's feedback. It's lower than average. It's in Chicago with a BIN of $100. Hey group...again, this is the guy that I bought my machines from (he had another 5003 up there about a month ago, and it was mentioned to the group). He's a really nice guy, with quality equipment. I don't know why he has the low approval rating, but I consider him to be a reputable dude. He's about 60 years old and has been running a studio for a really long time (and has a couple of platinum dance cuts on the market) Anyway, his name is Larry Sherman, and on a small item like this that he has to ship, I would expect there to be no problems. I drove to Chicago to check out and pick up my apr5003v's because the crating and shipping would have made the purchase difficult otherwise (I bought 3 of them with stands, two remotes and a couple of model 361 dolby units...he even threw in a parts machine for free!). Feel free to hit me up with any questions you have about Larry, but I can assure you the item is in working order and in the condition he has indicated (and that you will get it!) BTW: What does this card do? Thanks again, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #922 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Thu May 4, 2006 7:55 pm Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay Faroutrecording@... Send Email In a message dated 5/4/2006 3:51:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in the machines? Sorry to hear you've had bad exchanges with Larry in the past...I don't know him that well, and he is kind of a space cadet, but I think he has good intentions. Maybe the 70's weren't as kind to him as the rest of us! (well, I was born in '74, so what do I know?!) In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female and US 110 for the male) and still hasn't come through with those, so I guess my experience with him wasn't 100% satisfactory, but I agreed to take the units with me without the cables, so I put that on me, not him. (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let me know from where plz) If you have more information about the function and installation location of this "extender card" please fill me in so I can check my units. I haven't really had much of a chance to fool with them, other than to test them for functionality before I purchased them, as I operate primarily in the digital domain. Much thanks for the reply and info, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #923 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 5, 2006 12:05 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:55 PM 5/4/2006, you wrote: >Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I >have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. It permits you to pull the audio cards out of the mahine, plug in the extender, plug the cards back in and troubleshoot the cards with them now outside the machine. Otherwise, how could you take measurements on the cards for troubleshooting without a separate test fixture? > In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find > the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female > and US 110 for the male) They are, as far as I know, a US or worldwide connector. HP used them as well. > (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let > me know from where plz) http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/03/15/round-pin-power-cords-for-older-equipmen\ t-using-ph-163-connector/ BTW, have you tried Googling Dolby power cord round ? Tape Restoration Seminar: MAY 9-12, 2006; details at Web site. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #924 From: Date: Fri May 5, 2006 1:49 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay denormaliser Offline Send Email im new, and dont know anything, but im going to hazard a guess and if its wrong maybe at least it will be funny... im thinking that the card connects the audio ports on the back somehow with some kind of interface on the front, accessed via the configuration door thingy. (Thus 'extending' the audio so you can put plugs in/out the front instead of the back?) Is that right? cheers Damian The new owner of an alright looking APR5003v On Thu May 4 23:55 , Faroutrecording@... sent: In a message dated 5/4/2006 3:51:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in the machines? Sorry to hear you've had bad exchanges with Larry in the past...I don't know him that well, and he is kind of a space cadet, but I think he has good intentions. Maybe the 70's weren't as kind to him as the rest of us! (well, I was born in '74, so what do I know?!) In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female and US 110 for the male) and still hasn't come through with those, so I guess my experience with him wasn't 100% satisfactory, but I agreed to take the units with me without the cables, so I put that on me, not him. (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let me know from where plz) If you have more information about the function and installation location of this "extender card" please fill me in so I can check my units. I haven't really had much of a chance to fool with them, other than to test them for functionality before I purchased them, as I operate primarily in the digital domain. Much thanks for the reply and info, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #925 From: Larry Hinds Date: Fri May 5, 2006 8:13 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay larhinds Offline Send Email The card is used to temporarily extend an audio card out in front of the machine for circuit troubleshooting. Happy troubleshooting. Larry On May 5, 2006, at 12:49 AM, wrote: im new, and dont know anything, but im going to hazard a guess and if its wrong maybe at least it will be funny... im thinking that the card connects the audio ports on the back somehow with some kind of interface on the front, accessed via the configuration door thingy. (Thus 'extending' the audio so you can put plugs in/out the front instead of the back?) Is that right? cheers Damian The new owner of an alright looking APR5003v On Thu May 4 23:55 , Faroutrecording@... sent: In a message dated 5/4/2006 3:51:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in the machines? Sorry to hear you've had bad exchanges with Larry in the past...I don't know him that well, and he is kind of a space cadet, but I think he has good intentions. Maybe the 70's weren't as kind to him as the rest of us! (well, I was born in '74, so what do I know?!) In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female and US 110 for the male) and still hasn't come through with those, so I guess my experience with him wasn't 100% satisfactory, but I agreed to take the units with me without the cables, so I put that on me, not him. (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let me know from where plz) If you have more information about the function and installation location of this "extender card" please fill me in so I can check my units. I haven't really had much of a chance to fool with them, other than to test them for functionality before I purchased them, as I operate primarily in the digital domain. Much thanks for the reply and info, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #926 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri May 5, 2006 9:37 am Subject: RE: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email This extender card is supplied to allow you to have the audio card "extended" out of the card cage for service while still fully functionally connected to the machine. In this way the tech can reach both sides of the card for dignostics and repairs. It is only used for servicing of the machine, and never for normal operation. -----Original Message----- From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Faroutrecording@... Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:56 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay In a message dated 5/4/2006 3:51:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in the machines? Sorry to hear you've had bad exchanges with Larry in the past...I don't know him that well, and he is kind of a space cadet, but I think he has good intentions. Maybe the 70's weren't as kind to him as the rest of us! (well, I was born in '74, so what do I know?!) In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female and US 110 for the male) and still hasn't come through with those, so I guess my experience with him wasn't 100% satisfactory, but I agreed to take the units with me without the cables, so I put that on me, not him. (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let me know from where plz) If you have more information about the function and installation location of this "extender card" please fill me in so I can check my units. I haven't really had much of a chance to fool with them, other than to test them for functionality before I purchased them, as I operate primarily in the digital domain. Much thanks for the reply and info, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #927 From: Jim Date: Fri May 5, 2006 10:42 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay analogb@... Send Email Greetings, An extender card is used as a service aid. You pull out the circuit card that you are trouble shooting, insert the extender card into its slot on the backplane, then insert the pulled card onto the extender. This gives you the ability to measure any point on the suspect card while it is still functionally in circuit. Some extender cards have the ability to interrupt each signal path via jumpers to allow for different measurement techniques. Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com >Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet >to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come >installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to >my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in >the machines? Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #928 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri May 5, 2006 7:16 pm Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay bae_steve Offline Send Email Jesus...........sit down children........ On a 2 trk. machine you have two audio channels. On a 3 trk. machine you have two audio channels and a time code channel card. How do you fix them when them go bad? You plug in the extender, plug the channel card onto the extender, and troubleshoot the problem. Comprende? If not, I charge $150.00 for the year (unlimited phone/e-mail assist) to explain why the grass is green. SS -----Original Message----- From: damian@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 4 May 2006 23:49:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay im new, and dont know anything, but im going to hazard a guess and if its wrong maybe at least it will be funny... im thinking that the card connects the audio ports on the back somehow with some kind of interface on the front, accessed via the configuration door thingy. (Thus 'extending' the audio so you can put plugs in/out the front instead of the back?) Is that right? cheers Damian The new owner of an alright looking APR5003v On Thu May 4 23:55 , Faroutrecording@... sent: In a message dated 5/4/2006 3:51:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: It's the audio extender. One was shipped w/ every machine, as well as the manual. If you bought 3 machines from him, he should have given you one. My dealings w/ him, so far, have been less than favorable. SS Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "audio extender"? I have yet to figure out what the function of this card is. Does it not come installed from the factory? I got two owners manuals from him, matched to my machines by serial number. Perhaps the cards are already installed in the machines? Sorry to hear you've had bad exchanges with Larry in the past...I don't know him that well, and he is kind of a space cadet, but I think he has good intentions. Maybe the 70's weren't as kind to him as the rest of us! (well, I was born in '74, so what do I know?!) In fact, when I purchased my Dolby 361 frames, he couldn't find the British power supply cords (round British socket for the female and US 110 for the male) and still hasn't come through with those, so I guess my experience with him wasn't 100% satisfactory, but I agreed to take the units with me without the cables, so I put that on me, not him. (BTW...if anyone knows where to order power cords like that, let me know from where plz) If you have more information about the function and installation location of this "extender card" please fill me in so I can check my units. I haven't really had much of a chance to fool with them, other than to test them for functionality before I purchased them, as I operate primarily in the digital domain. Much thanks for the reply and info, Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #929 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Fri May 5, 2006 6:57 pm Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay Faroutrecording@... Send Email In a message dated 5/5/2006 6:18:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, mcijh@... writes: Jesus...........sit down children........ On a 2 trk. machine you have two audio channels. On a 3 trk. machine you have two audio channels and a time code channel card. How do you fix them when them go bad? You plug in the extender, plug the channel card onto the extender, and troubleshoot the problem. Comprende? If not, I charge $150.00 for the year (unlimited phone/e-mail assist) to explain why the grass is green. SS Thank you for your informative, if smart assity, response. So, it's a trouble shooting card then...neat. I guess I didn't get one with my machines, and now I am less satisfactory with larry and his merchandise. Perhaps I shall chew his ass by email. Thanks for the offer on the tech assist, but I'll check my manual for more info. :-) (btw...I'm over 30, I was already sitting, and my grass is extremely green, thank you!) Travis Tickemyer Far Out Recording faroutrecording@... PO BOX 618 Warrensburg, MO (660)429-5225 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #930 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Sat May 6, 2006 11:24 am Subject: Re: Another APR-5000 extender card on eBay masteringman... Offline Send Email Travis Tickemyer: > Thank you for your informative, if smart assity, response. > So, it's a trouble shooting card then...neat. The service manual and the extender card(s) are things that normally gets put in some dark place almost never to be touched after the first few days getting to know the machine. BUT when something goes wrong it can mean the difference between never being able to fix the fault at all OR fixing it at the end of the day. Extender cards, as used to get the circuit board out in the open so you have acess to both sides to help fault finding means that one can very quickly measure dc voltages, trace a 1 kHz tone through various stages, apply freezer or hot air to various parts more. Without the extender cards you are almost at a standstill since fault finding becomes very cumbersome....it means getting out PC card, attaching test probes, sticking card in in an off state so as not taking chance to kill something, checking test gear, no all´s ok, out comes card finding new test points attaching test probes, in goes card switching on, on and on...... You add hours upon hours to your service bill without extender boards. Sadly most extender boards and Manuals gets separated at a very early time in the life of most gear. This is especially true at the first sale after the original owner don´t need it no more. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #931 From: Faroutrecording@... Date: Sat May 6, 2006 10:57 am Subject: Re: APR-5000 extender card Faroutrecording@... Send Email Now this is an INFORMATIVE response! Thank you so much. Perhaps Larry didn't include this with my purchase since he knew there was no way in hell I would attempt such a trouble-shooting endeavor by myself! Or perhaps, because he gave me a spare parts machine with all the audio cards, time code card, and bias card included (everything but the headstack is on my parts machine) so I'm assuming that if I have any kind of serious problem, I can just swap out the card from my spare machine. This is also why I purchased 3 of these machines, in addition to the parts unit. Thank you for the real and free information about my Sonys. In a message dated 5/6/2006 10:28:30 A.M. Central Standard Time, mastering@... writes: The service manual and the extender card(s) are things that normally gets put in some dark place almost never to be touched after the first few days getting to know the machine. BUT when something goes wrong it can mean the difference between never being able to fix the fault at all OR fixing it at the end of the day. Extender cards, as used to get the circuit board out in the open so you have acess to both sides to help fault finding means that one can very quickly measure dc voltages, trace a 1 kHz tone through various stages, apply freezer or hot air to various parts more. Without the extender cards you are almost at a standstill since fault finding becomes very cumbersome....it means getting out PC card, attaching test probes, sticking card in in an off state so as not taking chance to kill something, checking test gear, no all´s ok, out comes card finding new test points attaching test probes, in goes card switching on, on and on...... You add hours upon hours to your service bill without extender boards. Sadly most extender boards and Manuals gets separated at a very early time in the life of most gear. This is especially true at the first sale after the original owner don´t need it no more. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #932 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun May 14, 2006 7:50 pm Subject: Cassette QC players richardlhess Offline Send Email Were APR-5000s ever made in a cassette QC configuration? In other words, capable of playing 0.150-inch tape? I passed up a few $100 A80QC players on ePay a few years ago and now I'd like to try some stuff with cassettes outside of the Dragons. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #933 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun May 14, 2006 8:58 pm Subject: Re: Cassette QC players bae_steve Offline Send Email No, they were only made w/ 1/4" and 1/2" heads and guides. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:50:44 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Cassette QC players Were APR-5000s ever made in a cassette QC configuration? In other words, capable of playing 0.150-inch tape? I passed up a few $100 A80QC players on ePay a few years ago and now I'd like to try some stuff with cassettes outside of the Dragons. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #934 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun May 14, 2006 10:35 pm Subject: Re: Cassette QC players richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Steve, Did MCI ever make these? JH-110? I know at least one 3M ISOLoop was made that way according to David Sarser and of course the A80 QC. Cheers, Richard At 08:58 PM 5/14/2006, mcijh@... wrote: No, they were only made w/ 1/4" and 1/2" heads and guides. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:50:44 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Cassette QC players Were APR-5000s ever made in a cassette QC configuration? In other words, capable of playing 0.150-inch tape? I passed up a few $100 A80QC players on ePay a few years ago and now I'd like to try some stuff with cassettes outside of the Dragons. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #935 From: mcijh@... Date: Mon May 15, 2006 6:54 am Subject: Re: Cassette QC players bae_steve Offline Send Email No, No MCI's either. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 22:35:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Cassette QC players Thanks, Steve, Did MCI ever make these? JH-110? I know at least one 3M ISOLoop was made that way according to David Sarser and of course the A80 QC. Cheers, Richard At 08:58 PM 5/14/2006, mcijh@... wrote: No, they were only made w/ 1/4" and 1/2" heads and guides. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 19:50:44 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Cassette QC players Were APR-5000s ever made in a cassette QC configuration? In other words, capable of playing 0.150-inch tape? I passed up a few $100 A80QC players on ePay a few years ago and now I'd like to try some stuff with cassettes outside of the Dragons. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. SPONSORED LINKS Sony digital recorders Sony voice recorders Tape recorders Audio recorder Sony video recorder Sony cd recorders YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "sony_apr" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #936 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue May 16, 2006 10:12 am Subject: Re: contact from Sony APR group richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm getting to HATE Yahoooooligans Groups more and more. The most recent group I started was using Mailman on my richardhess.com server. I'm posting my reply to the group as I don't really have a clue (i.e. never troubleshot this problem before). Do you have the manual? On my APR-16, the lifters engage when I go past a certain speed using shuttle or when I press the wind button. There is a lifter defeat some place. I don't know off the top of my head. There MAY ALSO be a lifter defeat programmable in the registers, hence why I asked you if you had the manual. I would start there. The next step would be to watch the voltage across the lifter solenoid. That will divide between electro and mech problems. If it's an electrical failure, I suspect the solenoid drive transistor, if that failed I'd also replace the snubber diode across the solenoid. At 09:56 AM 5/16/2006, Chris Brown wrote: >Richard, > >I have a few questions about a newly- purchased APR-24, and would >like to address them to you, if you wouldn't mind. Yahoo Groups is >trying to sort out why (for no good reason) I am unable to post to >Sony_APR despite doing all the right things. > >Briefly, have received and wired said machine. Found that the >lifters aren't operating properly: tape stays engaged in wind >modes. Disassembled far enough to find that it's not an obvious >mechanical problem, although I can't completely rule that >out. They can be pulled into the proper position. Excess tape >tension is a suspect, although I don't have the means to test. I >have lots of analog experience going back to late 70's, so >electronic & alignment issues are generally no problem. >Mechanical issues I always left to the real techs in the old days. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #937 From: Chris Brown Date: Tue May 16, 2006 12:25 pm Subject: Re: APR 24 tape lifters chrisbrown10576 Offline Send Email Thank you, Richard. Yahoo is also very sloooow in the customer support domain. The manual is being delivered to me, possibly today. The programmable lifter defeat may be a software feature designed to insure continuous SMPTE sync during wind.... or so speculation goes. Your two suggestions are very good, will check them out. Cheers, Chris Richard L. Hess5/16/06 10:12 AM > I'm getting to HATE Yahoooooligans Groups more and more. The most > recent group I started was using Mailman on my richardhess.com server. > > I'm posting my reply to the group as I don't really have a clue (i.e. > never troubleshot this problem before). > > Do you have the manual? > > On my APR-16, the lifters engage when I go past a certain speed using > shuttle or when I press the wind button. > > There is a lifter defeat some place. I don't know off the top of my > head. There MAY ALSO be a lifter defeat programmable in the > registers, hence why I asked you if you had the manual. > > I would start there. > > The next step would be to watch the voltage across the lifter > solenoid. That will divide between electro and mech problems. > > If it's an electrical failure, I suspect the solenoid drive > transistor, if that failed I'd also replace the snubber diode across > the solenoid. > > At 09:56 AM 5/16/2006, Chris Brown wrote: >> Richard, >> >> I have a few questions about a newly- purchased APR-24, and would >> like to address them to you, if you wouldn't mind. Yahoo Groups is >> trying to sort out why (for no good reason) I am unable to post to >> Sony_APR despite doing all the right things. >> >> Briefly, have received and wired said machine. Found that the >> lifters aren't operating properly: tape stays engaged in wind >> modes. Disassembled far enough to find that it's not an obvious >> mechanical problem, although I can't completely rule that >> out. They can be pulled into the proper position. Excess tape >> tension is a suspect, although I don't have the means to test. I >> have lots of analog experience going back to late 70's, so >> electronic & alignment issues are generally no problem. >> Mechanical issues I always left to the real techs in the old days. >> > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #938 From: Stephen Anderson Date: Tue May 16, 2006 2:00 pm Subject: MCI 500 extender board stephenaudio Offline Send Email Anyone have one? I just started taking care of a 524 out here in LA, board has gone through a 2-step sale, no one knows what became of manuals or extender. I'm covered on manuals, but the extender, well, other than working on I/Os, not having one can be a show stopper. Thanks, Steve Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #939 From: Chris Brown Date: Fri May 19, 2006 12:06 pm Subject: APR 24 lifters update: looking for a tech chrisbrown10576 Offline Send Email Although I received very specific advice on the inoperative tape lifters from Richard H, the solution still eludes me. So far I don’t have a ready means for checking the voltages, and haven’t sufficiently decoded the manual to understand what the optimal voltages are. In order to get up and running for a session next week, I NEED A TECHNICIAN willing to make a service visit to Newtown, CT. The studio is 5 minutes from the Route 84/Route 34 intersection. Please contact me to work out details. A cautionary note to anyone contemplating the purchase of an ATR of any description: if possible, try it, and arrange to disassemble it, before you buy. This machine had been in a multi-room NYC studio with platinum credits and should have been well-maintained. Removal of the top plate revealed tape oxide/dust clumps, some a big as golf balls, many attached to ferrous metal parts. Serious threat to the well being of the machine, if only due to impeded air circulation. If anyone is interested the visual, I’ll post a photo or two on MySpace. Just ask. Chris -- Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #940 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 19, 2006 12:58 pm Subject: Re: APR 24 lifters update: looking for a tech richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Chris, That is good advice. I have very few things that I have only one of -- my APR-16 (like an APR-24, only one made) is a one-of-a-kind, but I have lots of pieces of APR-5000s that can swap and a few spare modules of unknown condition. As to the software issue, I did check the presets in the manual I have and did not find a specific item that would disable lifters. It seems that the machine derives SMPTE during fast wind from the tach and synthesizes it and then drops the tape on the heads below a certain speed--at least on the APR-16 which is running fairly standard, I think, APR-24 firmware. I don't know of any techs, but, if I were you, I'd look for a backup plan. I wouldn't expect a studio to maintain an end-of-life product well...that's a given. By end-of-life, I mean economic life to them. The machine probably has a bunch more time left on it if refurbished. I've bcc'd several people who might have some ideas for service. They will hopefully contact you if they have any ideas. guys: to respond mailto:christopherbrown@... He'll be watching his SPAM BLOCKER, but still it would be good to fill out the form that bounces back. Cheers, Richard At 12:06 PM 5/19/2006, you wrote: >Although I received very specific advice on the inoperative tape >lifters from Richard H, the solution still eludes me. So far I >don't have a ready means for checking the voltages, and haven't >sufficiently decoded the manual to understand what the optimal voltages are. > >In order to get up and running for a session next week, I NEED A >TECHNICIAN willing to make a service visit to Newtown, CT. The >studio is 5 minutes from the Route 84/Route 34 intersection. Please >contact me to work out details. > >A cautionary note to anyone contemplating the purchase of an ATR of >any description: if possible, try it, and arrange to disassemble >it, before you buy. This machine had been in a multi-room NYC >studio with platinum credits and should have been >well-maintained. Removal of the top plate revealed tape oxide/dust >clumps, some a big as golf balls, many attached to ferrous metal >parts. Serious threat to the well being of the machine, if only due >to impeded air circulation. If anyone is interested the visual, >I'll post a photo or two on MySpace. Just ask. > >Chris > > > >-- > > > >SPONSORED LINKS >Sony >digital recorders >Sony >voice recorders >Tape >recorders >Audio >recorder >Sony >video recorder >Sony >cd recorders > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group > "sony_apr" on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > sony_apr-unsubs\ cribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >---------- Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #941 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 25, 2006 4:05 pm Subject: Available: Sony APR-5003 richardlhess Offline Send Email I found a Sony APR-5003 (not v--or should I say it found me) in Maryland outside DC. If you're interested, I'll put you in touch with the seller. It's a convertible version on the tape guides and is from 87C production. He says it is minty despite its Gov't origins. I have not seen digipix or the machine. Let me know. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #942 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 26, 2006 12:43 pm Subject: Remote Control switches for APR-24 richardlhess Offline Send Email Anyone know the cross reference for the switches in the Sony APR-24 remote? The Sony part numbers are T9414-136-1 T9414-137-1 T9414-140-1 Also some of the related switch caps might be nice, too, especially T9453-910-1 T9453-911-1 T9453-912-1 T9453-913-1 Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #943 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 26, 2006 6:53 pm Subject: New RMGI Tape Website and New ATR Magnetics Website richardlhess Offline Send Email USR (Kurt?) posted this on the Yahoo Reel-to-reel group. The RMGI site is rather nice. The ATRTape site is not fully functional. Cheers, Richard >From: "usrecordingmedia" >Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 22:36:23 -0000 >Subject: [reeltoreel] New RMGI Tape Website and New ATR Magnetics Website > >FYI: There's been two very recent improved websites for tape. You might >want to check it out: > >http://www.rmgi.nl >http://www.atrtape.com > >US Recording is mentioned in the "Latest News" section on the RMGI >website! Thank you Gerd! > > > > > > > >Be sure to remove excessive quotes from your reply. >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #944 From: Chris Brown Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 11:49 am Subject: looking for APR-24 switches chrisbrown10576 Offline Send Email Friends, I’m looking for some switches to put an APR-24 back on-line. Most important are the Play, FF, RW: T 9414-183-1 SW 17 mm JAE They’re needed for both the machine itself and the remote. I have heard that Otari used the same switches. Three different switches are needed for the remote: T 9414-136-1 Amber LED T 9414-137-1 Green LED T 9414-140-1 No LED Rumor has it that Sony used the same switches with slightly different LED colors for the 3348 Digital Multitrack. It would be great to find these or substitutes. Appreciate your help! Chris Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #945 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 1:31 pm Subject: Re: looking for APR-24 switches richardlhess Offline Send Email AND if someone can cross these to JAE quickly, hopefully they will be the types that JAE is still selling for another year. They have already stopped production of some. http://www.jae.co.jp/e-top/eproduct/Termination.htm AND if someone can come up with a cross to another manufacturer, that would be great as well. At 11:49 AM 6/1/2006, Chris Brown wrote: Friends, I’m looking for some switches to put an APR-24 back on-line. Most important are the Play, FF, RW: T 9414-183-1 SW 17 mm JAE They’re needed for both the machine itself and the remote. I have heard that Otari used the same switches. Three different switches are needed for the remote: T 9414-136-1 Amber LED T 9414-137-1 Green LED T 9414-140-1 No LED Rumor has it that Sony used the same switches with slightly different LED colors for the 3348 Digital Multitrack. It would be great to find these or substitutes. Appreciate your help! Chris Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #946 From: "jeffbro27707" Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 2:30 pm Subject: MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring jeffbro27707 Offline Send Email I need to replace a bunch of READY and REC indicator lamps on a JH-24 meter bridge and noticed that the lamp leads are wrapped around the VU meter bodies before going to their solder pads. Since the replacement lamps I've found have only 6" lead wires instead of the stock 8" they are too short to wrap. I can't imagine why skipping the wrap would be a problem but I figure MCI might have had some method to their madness and I thought I'd ask the list members for their wisdom before I used a non-stock wire routing. Jeff Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #947 From: mcijh@... Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 3:21 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring bae_steve Offline Send Email They don't need to wrap around anything; just solder them in, and plug them into the grommet. SS -----Original Message----- From: jeffbro27707 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:30:15 -0000 Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring I need to replace a bunch of READY and REC indicator lamps on a JH-24 meter bridge and noticed that the lamp leads are wrapped around the VU meter bodies before going to their solder pads. Since the replacement lamps I've found have only 6" lead wires instead of the stock 8" they are too short to wrap. I can't imagine why skipping the wrap would be a problem but I figure MCI might have had some method to their madness and I thought I'd ask the list members for their wisdom before I used a non-stock wire routing. Jeff ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: sony_apr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #948 From: "chuckmacak" Date: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:05 pm Subject: APR 24 Info chuckmacak Offline Send Email Hey everyone. I am looking for the specs (size, weight) for the APR24 and autolocator. I am planning on purchasing one and need to look into the shipping costs. On a side note. Did Sony make a remote for the APR 5003 and If they did who has an extra for sale. Thanks Chuck Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #949 From: twjolly@... Date: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:49 pm Subject: Re: APR 24 Info twjjolly Offline Send Email Chuck, Contact me off board by email to: grssupport@.... We have duplicated the APR-5000 thru 5003 remote. They are no longer available from Sony. I can give you the specifics and more details by email. Regards, Ted Jolly GRS Systems, LLC In a message dated 6/20/2006 5:25:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chuckmacak@... writes: Hey everyone. I am looking for the specs (size, weight) for the APR24 and autolocator. I am planning on purchasing one and need to look into the shipping costs. On a side note. Did Sony make a remote for the APR 5003 and If they did who has an extra for sale. Thanks Chuck Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #950 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:53 pm Subject: Re: APR 24 Info richardlhess Offline Send Email At 06:05 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >Hey everyone. I am looking for the specs (size, weight) for the >APR24 and autolocator. I am >planning on purchasing one and need to look into the shipping costs. The APR-24 is 31.1"W, 47"H, 29"D. The Remote is 7" D, 16.8" W, 3.75" H The machine and remote weighs 400 lbs. I don't know how much the remote stand weighs. I think 50 pounds would be safe - it's like a Tek scope cart, maybe heavier. >On a side note. Did Sony make a remote for the APR 5003 Yes, they did. You can see two of them and one for the digi machine here: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/studio_f.jpg right in front of the LCD monitors. >and If they did who has an extra >for sale. If you come across a cache, I could use another one. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #951 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:54 pm Subject: Replacing Ampex 351 Capstan motor with MCI tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Hello Sony group, I am new to this group and am hoping to solicite advice and help in adapting an MCI JH 110C capstan motor and PLL board to replace the AC synchronous motor on my extremely hot-rodded Ampex 351 mastering recorder. The text below is from my latest Ampex group post: Update on my search for a replacement DC servo capstan motor for my Ampex 351. It looks like a DC servo motor from an MCI JH110C is going to be an excellent replacement for the original AC motor. They are readily available, looks to be easily easily adaptable to the 351 deck plate, can be precision rebuilt. Has a 0.496" diameter ceramic shaft and a PLL controller card that looks like it can be packaged into a separate rack mount box with no problem. The motor uses an optical (silent) tachometer, has a mu-metal shield, is similar in size to the original motor. I understand that the motor and its associated electronics were a strong point of the MCI decks. I am about 80% sure that this is going to be a good way to go, but I am still open to suggestions and comments from those who might be familiar with any problems etc with this proposed solution. (End of Ampex post) I have a copy of the MCI 110C service manual on the way, but I am especially interested in various versions and updates to the PLL card and associated circuitry, as well as comments on the various tachometer encoder versions. (I understand early ones were steel and later ones were mylar). I understand from recent projects that the pitch and centering accuracy of the tachometer disc can easily be the limiting factor on the motor speed on servo driven motors. Does anyone know how many poles are on the MCI capstan motor, and whether or not it is two phase or 3 phase? Thanks for your help in advance! Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #952 From: Digital Voice Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:01 am Subject: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #953 From: Damian - Ponyloaf Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:43 am Subject: Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V denormaliser Offline Send Email Have you found this? http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/index.html?JRF_mainframe=/ halfinchprices.html cheers, Damian On 24/06/2006, at 2:01 PM, Digital Voice wrote: > Hello everyone, >  > Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" > headblock for an APR-5003V? > The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock > on it is 1/4". > In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be > greatly appreciated. >  > Thanks, > Victor >  >  > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #954 From: Digital Voice Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:20 am Subject: Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Damian, Yes, I did look at the JRF upgarde kit. Seems like a LOT of money... But, it's good to know there is a way, if all else fails :) Thanks, Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Damian - Ponyloaf To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 12:43:55 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Have you found this? http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/index.html?JRF_mainframe=/ halfinchprices.html cheers, Damian Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #955 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:41 pm Subject: MCI 110C PLL board Schematic needed tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Sony/MCI group members: I have now photocopied most of the manual/ service bulletins, etc, etc. for an MCI JH-110B vintage machine. I have obtained a PLL board, a motherboard and its frame, an RTZ board and a display board with readout to enable me to implement the TVI function and varispeed on my standalone motor controller box for my Ampex 351. I do not, however have the schematics, theory of operation, and perhaps the correct block diagrams for the version of PLL card that I have. My card is from a 110C and is marked PC-2500-1033-____ A on the solder side. "Art A" is written on the component side. This board has some considerable changes from the earlier PLL boards for which I already have schematics. It has, for example 3 LED's, CR17, 18 and 19 that are not on previous boards. The LM566 VCO on earlier cards has been replaced with an LM 555 timer and some associated circuitry. My schematics do not cover this PLL board. If you have the schematics to this board, I would be grateful to get them in .pdf or whatever is easy. I can accept up to 5 Meg emails, and anything bigger I can set up an ftp for you to use. Thanks, Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #956 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:54 pm Subject: RE: MCI 110C PLL board Schematic needed ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You just missed me, I was in a location with the data you are looking for. Sometime over the weekend I'll be headed back, so by early next week I'll have it. If you don't find anyone else with it between now and then, contact me off list and I'll see if I can hustle it up.... From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hogan Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:42 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI 110C PLL board Schematic needed Sony/MCI group members: I have now photocopied most of the manual/ service bulletins, etc, etc. for an MCI JH-110B vintage machine. I have obtained a PLL board, a motherboard and its frame, an RTZ board and a display board with readout to enable me to implement the TVI function and varispeed on my standalone motor controller box for my Ampex 351. I do not, however have the schematics, theory of operation, and perhaps the correct block diagrams for the version of PLL card that I have. My card is from a 110C and is marked PC-2500-1033-____ A on the solder side. "Art A" is written on the component side. This board has some considerable changes from the earlier PLL boards for which I already have schematics. It has, for example 3 LED's, CR17, 18 and 19 that are not on previous boards. The LM566 VCO on earlier cards has been replaced with an LM 555 timer and some associated circuitry. My schematics do not cover this PLL board. If you have the schematics to this board, I would be grateful to get them in .pdf or whatever is easy. I can accept up to 5 Meg emails, and anything bigger I can set up an ftp for you to use. Thanks, Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #957 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Sat Jul 1, 2006 2:54 am Subject: Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #958 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Sat Jul 1, 2006 2:50 am Subject: Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email On 6/23/06, Digital Voice wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #959 From: Digital Voice Date: Sat Jul 1, 2006 10:20 am Subject: Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Daniel, Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching ebay for a 5000S 1/2" then. Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:54:52 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #960 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 5:52 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring masteringman... Offline Send Email Jeff: > I need to replace a bunch of READY and REC indicator lamps on a JH-24 > meter bridge and noticed that the lamp leads are wrapped around the > VU meter bodies before going to their solder pads. > > Since the replacement lamps I've found have only 6" lead wires instead > of the stock 8" What were the mfgr and typenumber of the original lamps? The manual says nothing at all. What did you use instead? Thanks! -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #961 From: Jeff Brown Date: Mon Jul 3, 2006 9:41 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring jeffbro27707 Offline Send Email Hello Goran, You may recall my original posting noted that the status lamps' wires were wrapped around the body of the VU meters on their way to their destination solder pads. This requires an 8" lead length, if I remember correctly. The only source I could find was JKL and they had minimum order requirements beyond my needs. However, if one is willing to forgo the factory standard wire routing then the following part from Mouser will suffice (they have 6" leads): Mouser # 35LS284 28V, 40mA see below for ordering details http://tinyurl.com/j7kj8 and http://tinyurl.com/kx56a for a drawing and data sheet Unfortunately for you, these are made by Xicon which is a house brand of Mouser and may not be availble from anyone but them (although I suppose they could ship to Sweden). Best, Jeff At 23:52 7/3/2006 +0200, you wrote: Jeff: > I need to replace a bunch of READY and REC indicator lamps on a JH-24 > meter bridge and noticed that the lamp leads are wrapped around the > VU meter bodies before going to their solder pads. > > Since the replacement lamps I've found have only 6" lead wires instead > of the stock 8" What were the mfgr and typenumber of the original lamps? The manual says nothing at all. What did you use instead? Thanks! -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #962 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Jul 4, 2006 9:51 pm Subject: RE: MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have replaced whole machines worth of these with bright leds and a series resistors...leaving the lens caps and the rubber grommets in place to hold them. Ends the whole problem..... and the installation is only a hassle once. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Brown Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 8:42 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH-24 REC status lamp wiring Hello Goran, You may recall my original posting noted that the status lamps' wires were wrapped around the body of the VU meters on their way to their destination solder pads. This requires an 8" lead length, if I remember correctly. The only source I could find was JKL and they had minimum order requirements beyond my needs. However, if one is willing to forgo the factory standard wire routing then the following part from Mouser will suffice (they have 6" leads): Mouser # 35LS284 28V, 40mA see below for ordering details http://tinyurl.com/j7kj8 and http://tinyurl.com/kx56a for a drawing and data sheet Unfortunately for you, these are made by Xicon which is a house brand of Mouser and may not be availble from anyone but them (although I suppose they could ship to Sweden). Best, Jeff At 23:52 7/3/2006 +0200, you wrote: Jeff: > I need to replace a bunch of READY and REC indicator lamps on a JH-24 > meter bridge and noticed that the lamp leads are wrapped around the > VU meter bodies before going to their solder pads. > > Since the replacement lamps I've found have only 6" lead wires instead > of the stock 8" What were the mfgr and typenumber of the original lamps? The manual says nothing at all. What did you use instead? Thanks! -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #963 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jul 7, 2006 1:30 am Subject: Multitrack track numbers richardlhess Offline Send Email Can you please confirm that all audio analog multitracks, including 1/2" 8T count tracks with the highest number nearest to the deck plate? I think the 8T 1/2" head assy for my Sony APR-16 my be reversed If the wrong polarizing pin is installed, that might do it, no? Anyone have a scan of the head wiring to the 20-pin Winchester connector? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #964 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jul 8, 2006 6:00 pm Subject: Agfa, BASF, and IG Farben Tape list now available at AESHC site richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks to the great research work of Friedrich Engel, the BASF Historian, we now have a list of Agfa, BASF, and IG Farben audio tapes available right next to the 3M tape list on the Audio Engineering Society Historical Committee Web site. The main page for this is here: http://www.aes.org/aeshc/basftapedoc.html Please let me know if there are any errors -- I reformatted the document from Herr Engel into HTML and Excel to be compatible with the 3M document (if in format although not in units or content). Thanks to John Chester for posting the pages! Of course the 3M pages are still here: http://www.aes.org/aeshc/3mtapedoc.html Does anyone feel up to doing a similar list for Ampex? Instrumentation? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #965 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Multitrack track numbers masteringman... Offline Send Email Richard Hess: > Can you please confirm that all audio analog multitracks, > including 1/2" 8T count tracks with the highest number > nearest to the deck plate? I´ve never seen anything but that, yes. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #966 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:40 am Subject: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Hello group, I am adapting the dc capstan motor from an MCI 110C tape recorder to work in a hot-rodded Ampex 351 tape deck. I have already obtained a (1984 vintage) motor, machined an adapter plate to mount the motor, and a motherboard, PLL card RTZ card and display to read out the TVI speed in a separate motor drive electronics box that I am putting together. I have complete schematics and engineering change bulletins to a 110B. The PLL card that I actually have is to a 110C and there were quite a few changes in the schematic/layout of that PLL card. (3 LED's on the card and a 555 timer chip as a VCO instead of a 566 like earlier versions). If anyone has a very late 110C manual that has: 1. Schematic for a PC2500-1033-_____ PLL board. 2. Theory of operation for capstan motor drive electronics describing the later board including using the 555 as a VCO. 3. Troubleshooting section with waveform info for the later PLL board. 4. Schematic of Motor Tachometer Board Art A containing an additional resistor R11. 5. Adjustment instructions for matching and selecting the photo sensors used to read the tachometer disk and selecting R5 and R6. I would be greateful to obtain copies/scans of those sections. The schematics I have show R5 and R6 (the current determining resistors for the LED portion of the sensor to be 68 Ohm nominal, but adjusted in test. I have seen 3 MCI motors so far. the oldest one had 68 Ohm resistors a later one (Sony) had 100 Ohm resistors The motor that I am going to rebuild for use on the Ampex has R5 100 Ohm and R6 120 Ohm! I cannot figure out a part number for the sensor so I can look up its data sheet to help me figure out what its specs are. In the MCI motors I have seen, the photosensors had little yellow stickers with numbers on them that indicated some matching test. Anyone know the correct part number for a replacement sensor? Anyone know what the correct procedure is for matching photosensors / selecting R5 and R6? Thanks, Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #967 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:22 pm Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. bae_steve Offline Send Email I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, because you already assume too much for your own good. It would only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. SS -----Original Message----- From: stevehogan@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 8:40 AM Subject: [sony_apr] MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. Hello group, I am adapting the dc capstan motor from an MCI 110C tape recorder to work in a hot-rodded Ampex 351 tape deck. I have already obtained a (1984 vintage) motor, machined an adapter plate to mount the motor, and a motherboard, PLL card RTZ card and display to read out the TVI speed in a separate motor drive electronics box that I am putting together. I have complete schematics and engineering change bulletins to a 110B. The PLL card that I actually have is to a 110C and there were quite a few changes in the schematic/layout of that PLL card. (3 LED's on the card and a 555 timer chip as a VCO instead of a 566 like earlier versions). If anyone has a very late 110C manual that has: 1. Schematic for a PC2500-1033-_____ PLL board. 2. Theory of operation for capstan motor drive electronics describing the later board including using the 555 as a VCO. 3. Troubleshooting section with waveform info for the later PLL board. 4. Schematic of Motor Tachometer Board Art A containing an additional resistor R11. 5. Adjustment instructions for matching and selecting the photo sensors used to read the tachometer disk and selecting R5 and R6. I would be greateful to obtain copies/scans of those sections. The schematics I have show R5 and R6 (the current determining resistors for the LED portion of the sensor to be 68 Ohm nominal, but adjusted in test. I have seen 3 MCI motors so far. the oldest one had 68 Ohm resistors a later one (Sony) had 100 Ohm resistors The motor that I am going to rebuild for use on the Ampex has R5 100 Ohm and R6 120 Ohm! I cannot figure out a part number for the sensor so I can look up its data sheet to help me figure out what its specs are. In the MCI motors I have seen, the photosensors had little yellow stickers with numbers on them that indicated some matching test. Anyone know the correct part number for a replacement sensor? Anyone know what the correct procedure is for matching photosensors / selecting R5 and R6? Thanks, Steve Hogan Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #968 From: Justin Foley Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:17 am Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Steve H - I spent some time last weekend sending you the PLL diagram. Did you not get it? Was it not the right thing? I haven’t heard from you. = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #969 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Justin Foley-- Sorry I missed your email when it arrived. The schematic and parts list for the PLL board came through perfectly, with excellent scan quality-- very readable. Thanks ever so much for the time it took to scan and send to me. It will be a huge help. Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #970 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:56 am Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email SS writes: I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, because you already assume too much for your own good. It would only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. SS When Richard Hess invited me to join this group in order to seek the advice and expertise of those who are familiar with the MCI tape machines, I had no idea that my inquiries would generate the kind of response repeated above . . . . I am truly amazed at the hostile response to my inquiry. I thought one only got abuse on the Studer group. To answer your points: I didn't use an MCI transport because my client had an Ampex 351 that he was already deep into modifying before I got involved. Had I set out to design a great sounding tape deck using tube electronics, I probably would have started with an ATR102 transport to move the tape. Maybe the next deck we build will be that way. Having now played with an MCI motherboard and transport control circuits, it appears to me that MCI's choice of tin-plated insulation displacement Molex interconnects and a relatively unsupported 0.062 thick motherboard makes an otherwise good design a real reliability problem. I have done no research on the head mounting, tape path, deck stiffness or other issues with the MCI transport, but a lot of Molex connectors would have to be replaced before I would consider it reliable enough for use in our studio. The capstan motor on my client's Ampex has some serious runout, and needs to be replaced. I chose to improve the capstan motor on the Ampex by using an MCI motor and controller because it has all the right things that will make the 351 better-- large diameter, ceramic shaft, optical tachometer.. IMHO the MCI motor and controller electronics atr superior to the servo motor offered by Ampex for the 440 machines that we considered using. That motor has rather crude drive electronics, (pull only), metal capstan shaft which needs periodic resurfacing, a magnetic tachometer that whines, and the necessity to machine a larger hole in the 351 deck plate to accommodate the motor. Using the MCI motor required no rework of the deck. This seems entirely logical to me and I fail to see what may have touched some raw nerve on the part of SS by adapting a later superior capstan motor and drive system to an older, less sophisticated transport. It will lower the wow & flutter of the less sophisticated transport. By the way, I did not trash a working MCI transport to obtain the parts. On the Ampex group one sometimes has to endure teasing when one is pushing the envelope and trying to squeeze the last measure of performance possible with these older machines. It seems reasonable to me, however, to apply the technology and analysis tools we have today that the MCI and Ampex engineers didn't have to make things sound better. There is great value in the expertise of the "old timers" who worked at Ampex and are still willing to be helpful. Larry Miller and Jay McKnight and many others have been very helpful and have prevented me from re-inventing the wheel that they had already made round. I have found the Ampex group 95% friendly, helpful, and sometimes even enthusiastic in their willingness to share their considerable expertise. There are, however, certain subjects in that group one doesn't dare bring up unless you want to read endless "audiophool" criticisms. Apparently, seeking alignment procedures, part numbers and schematics can land you insults in this group. SS's grade school chant of "I know a secret and I won't tell you!" says very little about me. It does however speak volumes about SS. If SS cares to elaborate on what he means by " you assume too much for your own good" means, I might perhaps get some inkling of what his problem is with me and the information I am trying to locate. Meanwhile, many thanks to others on this forum who have offered to help with the required docs. Steve Hogan Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #971 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:10 pm Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. ladewd Offline Send Email Circuit description is easy, its a typical PLL circuit. Crystal reference, but it can be switched to the 555 timer as an oscillator. The capstan tach board resistors are hand selected to the output of the photocells in the motor, so there may be different values in each motor you look at. The PLL takes the reference from either the crystal or vco switched via some logic gates. This is run through a series of dividers for different tape speeds, and compares it to the actual tach signal from the motor. Then it goes through a phase comparitor which provides a signal which will either speed up or slow down the motor so that it agrees with the reference. There are some adjustments to be made, but they're easy and are in the JH110 manual, which you should get a hold of if you want to do this as well as an oscilloscope. There's also a 2N3055 driver circuit which actually powers the motor. These are located on the back of the actual deck on a JH110. I still think Steve's idea of buying a complete MCI transport is the best. Good luck with it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hogan" wrote: > > Hello group, > > I am adapting the dc capstan motor from an MCI 110C tape recorder to work in a hot-rodded Ampex 351 tape deck. I have already obtained a (1984 vintage) motor, machined an adapter plate to mount the motor, and a motherboard, PLL card RTZ card and display to read out the TVI speed in a separate motor drive electronics box that I am putting together. > > I have complete schematics and engineering change bulletins to a 110B. The PLL card that I actually have is to a 110C and there were quite a few changes in the schematic/layout of that PLL card. (3 LED's on the card and a 555 timer chip as a VCO instead of a 566 like earlier versions). > > If anyone has a very late 110C manual that has: > > 1. Schematic for a PC2500-1033-_____ PLL board. > 2. Theory of operation for capstan motor drive electronics describing the later board including using the 555 as a VCO. > 3. Troubleshooting section with waveform info for the later PLL board. > 4. Schematic of Motor Tachometer Board Art A containing an additional resistor R11. > 5. Adjustment instructions for matching and selecting the photo sensors used to read the tachometer disk and selecting R5 and R6. > > I would be greateful to obtain copies/scans of those sections. > > The schematics I have show R5 and R6 (the current determining resistors for the LED portion of the sensor to be 68 Ohm nominal, but adjusted in test. > > I have seen 3 MCI motors so far. > the oldest one had 68 Ohm resistors > a later one (Sony) had 100 Ohm resistors > The motor that I am going to rebuild for use on the Ampex has R5 100 Ohm and R6 120 Ohm! > I cannot figure out a part number for the sensor so I can look up its data sheet to help me figure out what its specs are. In the MCI motors I have seen, the photosensors had little yellow stickers with numbers on them that indicated some matching test. > > Anyone know the correct part number for a replacement sensor? > Anyone know what the correct procedure is for matching photosensors / selecting R5 and R6? > > Thanks, > Steve Hogan > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #972 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:58 pm Subject: Re: creative solutions (was MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors.) richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Steve ( mcijh), I understand your desire to not part with information that you've spent effort to obtain and digest, and I don't think that Steve Hogan necessarily is adverse to paying you your consulting/subscription fee, but I really cannot speak for him. I would hope that if he complies with your payment terms that you will then be forthcoming with information that he wishes. However, in the new economy, it seems that people who give a lot away also make a lot of money as well. Google is perhaps the best example. I had a long discussion with John French about the future of analog. At the end of it, we were in agreement that the future of analog will look a lot like the distant past, where individuals cobble together what they need to meet their immediate performance / functional requirements. As I am sure you're painfully aware, analog has become a boutique business. My contention is that it is not very forward thinking nor kind to future archivists to be creating new analog material that needs to be stored, cared for, and playback equipment needs to be maintained to recover the content. As I think you know, my business model is recovering content that others cannot or will not. So, I am not sure what you mean by Steve Hogan "assuming too much for your [his] own good" While I am not sure exactly what/why Steve H. is doing what he's doing, I understand it's for a client who wants this particular assembly. Steve H, like the rest of us who are succeeding in business are trying to solve problems for a client and trying to make a client happy. Just because Jeep did it one way, doesn't mean that there are not other ways. We will face a shortage of parts and will need to improvise in order to cover the myriad of formats that have been recorded. In addition to audio, reel-to-reel analog tape was also used for instrumentation purposes, and having recently placed a toe into those waters, I am convinced that they are two parallel universes. I have successfully transferred a six-hour instrumentation tape that was FM recorded as a copy of a Direct (AM) recording of seismic shots profiling a lake. It was quite a surprise to the client and to me that it was an FM tape, as the original was most likely NOT FM and that an FM copy would be made was odd to say the least. What did I play it back on? My Sony APR-16 (like a smaller APR-24) with Applied Magnetics IRIG 4/3 heads scavenged from a Racal Store 7 DS and mounted by John French. When I discovered it was an FM recording, I was able to configure my Racal Store 4 DS to demodulate the FM in a play/record loop from the original Direct (AM) transfers in the computer. Since there was no DC data of interest on the FM, it was easy to go back into my sound card. So, if that's not sheep heads on dogs, I don't know what is, but the bottom line is that it worked for my client who was unable to find anyone in the "oil patch" who could reproduce the tape for him. The reason I have the IRIG heads on the Sony APR-16 is that I don't really want to have to maintain or store a complete other transport for the one or two IRIG tapes I'm asked to do a year. Also, the Racal Store 4 DS was purchased more for audio work because of its ability to actually run at 15/16 in/s and it's a 4-track machine, so I could use it for listening (with external re-equalization) to very slow tapes in real time, although I would normally undertake to transfer at 2x using an APR-5002 at 1.88 in/s (set for 3.75 with -50% varispeed and memory C storing the EQ settings obtained from an MRL 1.88 in/s test tape). The re-eq from 1.88 to 15/16 would be handled in the computer. Another part of the challenge was that since the instrumentation tape was 1.88 in/s, I needed to slow down the APR-16 (natively a 15/30 transport) to its lowest stable speed, which is 3.75 in/s - I did that by testing my signal / function generators and finding an HP3311A as the most stable, used that, coupled with a frequency counter to be sure as the reference source for the capstan. I really think that those of us who will get ahead in tape recovery/preservation/reformatting/restoration will need a lot of skills, and I think marrying unconventional components to achieve the desired ends will become more common. In addition to this combination approach (I call my 4-track APR-5003V player assembly the FrankenSony), we also will need to become chemists to understand the degradation paths of various tapes and the best methods to make degraded tapes playable, if only for one pass. I happen to like the ceramic capstan servo motors and I will have a bunch coming out of Pacific Recorder TOMCAT cartridge recorders that will be up for grabs later this year. In fact, if you want one or more, please let me know. I have enough APR-5000 motors at this point that I don't think I need the TOMCAT motors, but I wanted the TOMCAT electronics for more hybrids--and as an ultimate backup. I hope that each of us can help the other as we all have pieces of knowledge that are unique, and unique perspectives towards problem solving (although the use of the word 'problem' has gone out of fashion and we only have 'issues' and 'challenges' today). No one person can do it all and there are enough degrading tapes out there for everyone. In fact, the challenge will be to identify, prioritize, fund, and transfer what is out there before it is too degraded to transfer. The Black Star still image collection, when purchased by Corbis, was immediately frozen on the advice of Henry Wilhelm to stabilize it, as it would not have been possible to digitize that one collection in time to save it all. Cheers, Richard At 06:22 PM 7/14/2006, Steve (mcijh@...) wrote: >I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided >replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been >easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. > >I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things >you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, >because you already assume too much for your own good. It would >only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #973 From: "AllegroSound.com" Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:58 pm Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. allegrosound Offline Send Email AllegroKnowledgeBase: I hope you're not investing all this time, effort and treasure without adding servo-control to both reel motors; otherwise, run only acetate-backed tape-stock (Scotch 111, for example); polyester-backed (aka "Mylar" if made by Dupont) tape-stock will stretch. -----Original Message----- From: stevehogan@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 8:40 AM Subject: [sony_apr] MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. Hello group, I am adapting the dc capstan motor from an MCI 110C tape recorder to work in a hot-rodded Ampex 351 tape deck. I have already obtained a (1984 vintage) motor, machined an adapter plate to mount the motor, and a motherboard, PLL card RTZ card and display to read out the TVI speed in a separate motor drive electronics box that I am putting together. I have complete schematics and engineering change bulletins to a 110B. The PLL card that I actually have is to a 110C and there were quite a few changes in the schematic/layout of that PLL card. (3 LED's on the card and a 555 timer chip as a VCO instead of a 566 like earlier versions). If anyone has a very late 110C manual that has: 1. Schematic for a PC2500-1033-_____ PLL board. 2. Theory of operation for capstan motor drive electronics describing the later board including using the 555 as a VCO. 3. Troubleshooting section with waveform info for the later PLL board. 4. Schematic of Motor Tachometer Board Art A containing an additional resistor R11. 5. Adjustment instructions for matching and selecting the photo sensors used to read the tachometer disk and selecting R5 and R6. I would be greateful to obtain copies/scans of those sections. The schematics I have show R5 and R6 (the current determining resistors for the LED portion of the sensor to be 68 Ohm nominal, but adjusted in test. I have seen 3 MCI motors so far. the oldest one had 68 Ohm resistors a later one (Sony) had 100 Ohm resistors The motor that I am going to rebuild for use on the Ampex has R5 100 Ohm and R6 120 Ohm! I cannot figure out a part number for the sensor so I can look up its data sheet to help me figure out what its specs are. In the MCI motors I have seen, the photosensors had little yellow stickers with numbers on them that indicated some matching test. Anyone know the correct part number for a replacement sensor? Anyone know what the correct procedure is for matching photosensors / selecting R5 and R6? Thanks,Steve Hogan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #974 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:02 am Subject: Re: MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. bae_steve Offline Send Email MY, My, arn't we thin skinned. There are no secrets in the MCI world; just a need for a little common sense. SS -----Original Message----- From: stevehogan@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors. SS writes: I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, because you already assume too much for your own good. It would only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. SS When Richard Hess invited me to join this group in order to seek the advice and expertise of those who are familiar with the MCI tape machines, I had no idea that my inquiries would generate the kind of response repeated above . . . . I am truly amazed at the hostile response to my inquiry. I thought one only got abuse on the Studer group. To answer your points: I didn't use an MCI transport because my client had an Ampex 351 that he was already deep into modifying before I got involved. Had I set out to design a great sounding tape deck using tube electronics, I probably would have started with an ATR102 transport to move the tape. Maybe the next deck we build will be that way. Having now played with an MCI motherboard and transport control circuits, it appears to me that MCI's choice of tin-plated insulation displacement Molex interconnects and a relatively unsupported 0.062 thick motherboard makes an otherwise good design a real reliability problem. I have done no research on the head mounting, tape path, deck stiffness or other issues with the MCI transport, but a lot of Molex connectors would have to be replaced before I would consider it reliable enough for use in our studio. The capstan motor on my client's Ampex has some serious runout, and needs to be replaced. I chose to improve the capstan motor on the Ampex by using an MCI motor and controller because it has all the right things that will make the 351 better-- large diameter, ceramic shaft, optical tachometer.. IMHO the MCI motor and controller electronics atr superior to the servo motor offered by Ampex for the 440 machines that we considered using. That motor has rather crude drive electronics, (pull only), metal capstan shaft which needs periodic resurfacing, a magnetic tachometer that whines, and the necessity to machine a larger hole in the 351 deck plate to accommodate the motor. Using the MCI motor required no rework of the deck. This seems entirely logical to me and I fail to see what may have touched some raw nerve on the part of SS by adapting a later superior capstan motor and drive system to an older, less sophisticated transport. It will lower the wow & flutter of the less sophisticated transport. By the way, I did not trash a working MCI transport to obtain the parts. On the Ampex group one sometimes has to endure teasing when one is pushing the envelope and trying to squeeze the last measure of performance possible with these older machines. It seems reasonable to me, however, to apply the technology and analysis tools we have today that the MCI and Ampex engineers didn't have to make things sound better. There is great value in the expertise of the "old timers" who worked at Ampex and are still willing to be helpful. Larry Miller and Jay McKnight and many others have been very helpful and have prevented me from re-inventing the wheel that they had already made round. I have found the Ampex group 95% friendly, helpful, and sometimes even enthusiastic in their willingness to share their considerable expertise. There are, however, certain subjects in that group one doesn't dare bring up unless you want to read endless "audiophool" criticisms. Apparently, seeking alignment procedures, part numbers and schematics can land you insults in this group. SS's grade school chant of "I know a secret and I won't tell you!" says very little about me. It does however speak volumes about SS. If SS cares to elaborate on what he means by " you assume too much for your own good" means, I might perhaps get some inkling of what his problem is with me and the information I am trying to locate. Meanwhile, many thanks to others on this forum who have offered to help with the required docs. Steve Hogan Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #975 From: Digital Voice Date: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:16 pm Subject: Update -> Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Well, I did find a 1/2" APR headblock on ebay - actually a complete 1/2" upgrade kit! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190008693835 It ended up costing close to $600...to think I paid only $500 for my APR5003V, hehehe! Anyway, if the heads are in good shape, it's still a good deal - I think. (BTW sorry if I bid against someone from this list) Haven't received it yet, but looking at the ebay pictures, someone wrote on the box with a marker APR-HB 5002H (or 5007-H) I certainly hope the headblock will fit on my APR5003V Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Digital Voice To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:20:17 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Daniel, Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching ebay for a 5000S 1/2" then. Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:54:52 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #976 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:21 pm Subject: Re: Update -> Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V richardlhess Offline Send Email Victor, Great find! They even give you a 1/2" splicing block. Make sure you have the switches inside the head block set for a different code than the head block on the machine, and you'll be able to switch back and forth without having to align anything. Reminds me I should have JRF mill down another set of the guide cups for me . Cheers, Richard At 10:16 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: Well, I did find a 1/2" APR headblock on ebay - actually a complete 1/2" upgrade kit! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190008693835 It ended up costing close to $600...to think I paid only $500 for my APR5003V, hehehe! Anyway, if the heads are in good shape, it's still a good deal - I think. (BTW sorry if I bid against someone from this list) Haven't received it yet, but looking at the ebay pictures, someone wrote on the box with a marker APR-HB 5002H (or 5007-H) I certainly hope the headblock will fit on my APR5003V Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Digital Voice To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:20:17 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Daniel, Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching ebay for a 5000S 1/2" then. Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:54:52 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #977 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:26 am Subject: Re: Update -> Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email That headstack will work for sure. My headstack came off of an APR-5000, and it is currently doing an excellent job on my 5003.Great job. Daniel On 7/21/06, Richard L. Hess wrote: Victor, Great find! They even give you a 1/2" splicing block. Make sure you have the switches inside the head block set for a different code than the head block on the machine, and you'll be able to switch back and forth without having to align anything. Reminds me I should have JRF mill down another set of the guide cups for me . Cheers, Richard At 10:16 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: Well, I did find a 1/2" APR headblock on ebay - actually a complete 1/2" upgrade kit! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190008693835 It ended up costing close to $600...to think I paid only $500 for my APR5003V, hehehe! Anyway, if the heads are in good shape, it's still a good deal - I think. (BTW sorry if I bid against someone from this list) Haven't received it yet, but looking at the ebay pictures, someone wrote on the box with a marker APR-HB 5002H (or 5007-H) I certainly hope the headblock will fit on my APR5003V Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:20:17 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Daniel, Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching ebay for a 5000S 1/2" then. Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:54:52 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #978 From: "idylldon" Date: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:18 pm Subject: MCI JH-24 Recapping idylldon Offline Send Email Hello all, I recently purchased an early 80s MCI JH-24 and I'm starting to put together a list of the capacitors I need for a total recap job. I have recapped my Neotek board and numerous other electronic items in my studio, and have a Plato desoldering station to minimize the grief involved in the process. I'm sending the heads out to JRF for evaluation and most likely a relapping. A few questions: 1.) Should I rigidly adhere to the cap values (I plan to use 105C rated caps throughout) or are there places where increasing the value is beneficial? I realize that the exact values might not be available today, so I'd use the next higher value that I can get. 2.) Should I replace the tantalum caps with electrolytic equivalents? There always seems to be a lot of discussion about this when recapping a console, so I'm wondering if the same holds true for tape decks. The only cap that has failed in the deck right now is one of the tantalum caps on one output card. 3.) Anything else to be aware of? Thanks in advance, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #979 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:35 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-24 Recapping eddieaudio Offline Send Email It depends on the application. Power supply bypass caps can be a little larger - as can electrolytic or tantalum coupling (interstage) caps. Anything related to record and playback EQ can stay as-is or be replaced with the same type part. I would stick with tantalum or a substitute - Panasonic's K series, for example. ec idylldon wrote: Hello all, I recently purchased an early 80s MCI JH-24 and I'm starting to put together a list of the capacitors I need for a total recap job. I have recapped my Neotek board and numerous other electronic items in my studio, and have a Plato desoldering station to minimize the grief involved in the process. I'm sending the heads out to JRF for evaluation and most likely a relapping. A few questions: 1.) Should I rigidly adhere to the cap values (I plan to use 105C rated caps throughout) or are there places where increasing the value is beneficial? I realize that the exact values might not be available today, so I'd use the next higher value that I can get. 2.) Should I replace the tantalum caps with electrolytic equivalents? There always seems to be a lot of discussion about this when recapping a console, so I'm wondering if the same holds true for tape decks. The only cap that has failed in the deck right now is one of the tantalum caps on one output card. 3.) Anything else to be aware of? Thanks in advance, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #980 From: "idylldon" Date: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:41 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-24 Recapping idylldon Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > It depends on the application. Power supply bypass caps can be a little > larger - as can electrolytic or tantalum coupling (interstage) caps. > Anything related to record and playback EQ can stay as-is or be replaced > with the same type part. > > I would stick with tantalum or a substitute - Panasonic's K series, for > example. > > ec Thanks for your response, Eddie. Should I replace all the tantalums? I've heard so many different arguments about this that I'm not sure. It would make it easier all around if I could keep them and just replace the electrolytics. I also plan to replace all the dreaded red IC sockets. Cheers, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #981 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:11 am Subject: Re: Re: MCI JH-24 Recapping eddieaudio Offline Send Email Start with the sockets and then the electrolytics. idylldon wrote: --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > It depends on the application. Power supply bypass caps can be a little > larger - as can electrolytic or tantalum coupling (interstage) caps. > Anything related to record and playback EQ can stay as-is or be replaced > with the same type part. > > I would stick with tantalum or a substitute - Panasonic's K series, for > example. > > ec Thanks for your response, Eddie. Should I replace all the tantalums? I've heard so many different arguments about this that I'm not sure. It would make it easier all around if I could keep them and just replace the electrolytics. I also plan to replace all the dreaded red IC sockets. Cheers, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #982 From: Digital Voice Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:18 pm Subject: Re: Update -> Re: 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Brief update. Got the 1/2" headstack today, I was quite lucky - it looks brand new! No wear on the heads at all. Now I have to find the time to install/test/configure the machine for the 1/2" heads! Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 3:26:20 AM Subject: Re: Update -> Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V That headstack will work for sure. My headstack came off of an APR-5000, and it is currently doing an excellent job on my 5003.Great job. Daniel On 7/21/06, Richard L. Hess wrote: Victor, Great find! They even give you a 1/2" splicing block. Make sure you have the switches inside the head block set for a different code than the head block on the machine, and you'll be able to switch back and forth without having to align anything. Reminds me I should have JRF mill down another set of the guide cups for me . Cheers, Richard At 10:16 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: Well, I did find a 1/2" APR headblock on ebay - actually a complete 1/2" upgrade kit! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190008693835 It ended up costing close to $600...to think I paid only $500 for my APR5003V, hehehe! Anyway, if the heads are in good shape, it's still a good deal - I think. (BTW sorry if I bid against someone from this list) Haven't received it yet, but looking at the ebay pictures, someone wrote on the box with a marker APR-HB 5002H (or 5007-H) I certainly hope the headblock will fit on my APR5003V Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 10:20:17 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Daniel, Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching ebay for a 5000S 1/2" then. Victor ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Friedman To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:54:52 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 1/2" headblock for APR-5003V Sorry, I didn't see all of the replies! Some other advice -- Wait for a 1/2" APR 5003 to end up on eBay that is pickup only. Sometimes these machines don't sell, so you can haggle with the seller and convice him/her to just sell the heads and few pieces to upgrade your machine to 1/2". If you are going that route, look for 5000s rather that 5003s. They are even less likely to get any bids in a pickup only auction (that's how I got mine). -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On 7/1/06, Daniel Friedman wrote: On 6/23/06, Digital Voice < digitalvoice@...> wrote: Hello everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how I could get a 1/2" headblock for an APR-5003V? The tape path on my machine is convertible to 1/2", but the headblock on it is 1/4". In general, any advice on conversion of the 5003V to 1/2" would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Victor I believe that JRF has a full conversion kit including headstack. I have heard good things. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #983 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Jul 9, 2006 5:21 pm Subject: Re: Agfa, BASF, and IG Farben Tape list now available at AESHC site bae_steve Offline Send Email I may be in Euro-ville this fall if anyone's interested. SS -----Original Message----- From: Richard L. Hess To: Richard L. Hess Sent: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 18:00:29 -0400 Subject: [sony_apr] Agfa, BASF, and IG Farben Tape list now available at AESHC site Thanks to the great research work of Friedrich Engel, the BASF Historian, we now have a list of Agfa, BASF, and IG Farben audio tapes available right next to the 3M tape list on the Audio Engineering Society Historical Committee Web site. The main page for this is here: http://www.aes.org/aeshc/basftapedoc.html Please let me know if there are any errors -- I reformatted the document from Herr Engel into HTML and Excel to be compatible with the 3M document (if in format although not in units or content). Thanks to John Chester for posting the pages! Of course the 3M pages are still here: http://www.aes.org/aeshc/3mtapedoc.html Does anyone feel up to doing a similar list for Ampex? Instrumentation? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess.com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #984 From: mcijh@... Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:48 am Subject: Re: creative solutions (was MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors.) bae_steve Offline Send Email Well, Richard, I appreciate the sentiment, and the tale of your remarkable feats of clugeability. I'm not, however, asking for money. S. Hogan is just being to Anal. There are several others here who have all the same info I have. If he has a good capstan motor, w/ good Tach board & photocells of any vintage; either working PLL, and a readable -0600 or -1033 schematic; he's done. He's ready to Franken-out. He doesn't need anything except power and ground. If he needs someone to explain to him how and why everything works: He's over his head. SS -----Original Message----- From: arclists@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] creative solutions (was MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors.) Hello, Steve ( mcijh), I understand your desire to not part with information that you've spent effort to obtain and digest, and I don't think that Steve Hogan necessarily is adverse to paying you your consulting/subscription fee, but I really cannot speak for him. I would hope that if he complies with your payment terms that you will then be forthcoming with information that he wishes. However, in the new economy, it seems that people who give a lot away also make a lot of money as well. Google is perhaps the best example. I had a long discussion with John French about the future of analog. At the end of it, we were in agreement that the future of analog will look a lot like the distant past, where individuals cobble together what they need to meet their immediate performance / functional requirements. As I am sure you're painfully aware, analog has become a boutique business. My contention is that it is not very forward thinking nor kind to future archivists to be creating new analog material that needs to be stored, cared for, and playback equipment needs to be maintained to recover the content. As I think you know, my business model is recovering content that others cannot or will not. So, I am not sure what you mean by Steve Hogan "assuming too much for your [his] own good" While I am not sure exactly what/why Steve H. is doing what he's doing, I understand it's for a client who wants this particular assembly. Steve H, like the rest of us who are succeeding in business are trying to solve problems for a client and trying to make a client happy. Just because Jeep did it one way, doesn't mean that there are not other ways. We will face a shortage of parts and will need to improvise in order to cover the myriad of formats that have been recorded. In addition to audio, reel-to-reel analog tape was also used for instrumentation purposes, and having recently placed a toe into those waters, I am convinced that they are two parallel universes. I have successfully transferred a six-hour instrumentation tape that was FM recorded as a copy of a Direct (AM) recording of seismic shots profiling a lake. It was quite a surprise to the client and to me that it was an FM tape, as the original was most likely NOT FM and that an FM copy would be made was odd to say the least. What did I play it back on? My Sony APR-16 (like a smaller APR-24) with Applied Magnetics IRIG 4/3 heads scavenged from a Racal Store 7 DS and mounted by John French. When I discovered it was an FM recording, I was able to configure my Racal Store 4 DS to demodulate the FM in a play/record loop from the original Direct (AM) transfers in the computer. Since there was no DC data of interest on the FM, it was easy to go back into my sound card. So, if that's not sheep heads on dogs, I don't know what is, but the bottom line is that it worked for my client who was unable to find anyone in the "oil patch" who could reproduce the tape for him. The reason I have the IRIG heads on the Sony APR-16 is that I don't really want to have to maintain or store a complete other transport for the one or two IRIG tapes I'm asked to do a year. Also, the Racal Store 4 DS was purchased more for audio work because of its ability to actually run at 15/16 in/s and it's a 4-track machine, so I could use it for listening (with external re-equalization) to very slow tapes in real time, although I would normally undertake to transfer at 2x using an APR-5002 at 1.88 in/s (set for 3.75 with -50% varispeed and memory C storing the EQ settings obtained from an MRL 1.88 in/s test tape). The re-eq from 1.88 to 15/16 would be handled in the computer. Another part of the challenge was that since the instrumentation tape was 1.88 in/s, I needed to slow down the APR-16 (natively a 15/30 transport) to its lowest stable speed, which is 3.75 in/s - I did that by testing my signal / function generators and finding an HP3311A as the most stable, used that, coupled with a frequency counter to be sure as the reference source for the capstan. I really think that those of us who will get ahead in tape recovery/preservation/reformatting/restoration will need a lot of skills, and I think marrying unconventional components to achieve the desired ends will become more common. In addition to this combination approach (I call my 4-track APR-5003V player assembly the FrankenSony), we also will need to become chemists to understand the degradation paths of various tapes and the best methods to make degraded tapes playable, if only for one pass. I happen to like the ceramic capstan servo motors and I will have a bunch coming out of Pacific Recorder TOMCAT cartridge recorders that will be up for grabs later this year. In fact, if you want one or more, please let me know. I have enough APR-5000 motors at this point that I don't think I need the TOMCAT motors, but I wanted the TOMCAT electronics for more hybrids--and as an ultimate backup. I hope that each of us can help the other as we all have pieces of knowledge that are unique, and unique perspectives towards problem solving (although the use of the word 'problem' has gone out of fashion and we only have 'issues' and 'challenges' today). No one person can do it all and there are enough degrading tapes out there for everyone. In fact, the challenge will be to identify, prioritize, fund, and transfer what is out there before it is too degraded to transfer. The Black Star still image collection, when purchased by Corbis, was immediately frozen on the advice of Henry Wilhelm to stabilize it, as it would not have been possible to digitize that one collection in time to save it all. Cheers, Richard At 06:22 PM 7/14/2006, Steve (mcijh@...) wrote: >I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided >replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been >easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. > >I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things >you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, >because you already assume too much for your own good. It would >only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess.com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #985 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:50 pm Subject: Quantegy selling lab tape machines... richardlhess Offline Send Email http://www.prosoundnews.com/articles/article_4005.shtml tells the whole story. Oh, and if you miss out on their Mitsubishi X86 and must have one (or two), my pair is for sale. Oh, and if you do look at their X86, make sure it's an X86C. No connection, just passing it along. Lots o' nice Studer stuff there and it looks like MCI, too. There is also a 3M digi machine. I didn't see any Ampex content, but I didn't want you guys to feel left out. The B67s might be nice for archives. Thanks to Jeff for posting this originally on AMIA-L. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #986 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:41 pm Subject: Re: creative solutions (was MCI capstan motor schematics and tachometer sensors.) eddieaudio Offline Send Email To Richard. et al, As if there needed to be more comments on this topic - Richard having done the best job possible of providing perspective - clearly his audio skills are at least matched by his ability to clearly communicate the issues. As someone whose bedside manner is where it should be most of the time, I too am guilty of reacting the way Steve did - in fact, I confess to privately sharing that with him. What causes the reaction, rather than empathy or interest? Perhaps it's the feeling that the time to answer and help would be too much for ONE person at a time when some of us are stretched too thin, or finding it difficult to make ends meet. Too often, I turn repair projects into labors of love, when the typical repair shop would simply say "not worth it" or "close enough." Having recently lost money on a Fostex G16s repair/restoration and being challenged by DAT recorders that are now having more than the typical mechanical problems, I have closed shop for the summer to finish what's here, clean up and rethink my direction. Whether I return the machines broken or attempt to fix them I'm losing money, but of course there is the satisfaction of resolving the problems... Either way, I have to face my family when not contributing my share, even if in silence. I don't mean to burden you with my problems, or to suggest that Steve's ( mcijh) reaction was similar to mine (in this or other issues). But with Richard's comments as our high water mark - we should be as good at communicating as he obviously is - I would suggest that those with an unusual request consider providing more background info (unless that goes against the rules of the group). We all have clients who make unusual requests and sometimes everyone is surprised and happy when everything works out in the end. With all the background, I now "get" the motivation. Best wishes to all. eddie ciletti Hess wrote: Hello, Steve ( mcijh), I understand your desire to not part with information that you've spent effort to obtain and digest, and I don't think that Steve Hogan necessarily is adverse to paying you your consulting/subscrip tion fee, but I really cannot speak for him. I would hope that if he complies with your payment terms that you will then be forthcoming with information that he wishes. However, in the new economy, it seems that people who give a lot away also make a lot of money as well. Google is perhaps the best example. I had a long discussion with John French about the future of analog. At the end of it, we were in agreement that the future of analog will look a lot like the distant past, where individuals cobble together what they need to meet their immediate performance / functional requirements. As I am sure you're painfully aware, analog has become a boutique business. My contention is that it is not very forward thinking nor kind to future archivists to be creating new analog material that needs to be stored, cared for, and playback equipment needs to be maintained to recover the content. As I think you know, my business model is recovering content that others cannot or will not. So, I am not sure what you mean by Steve Hogan "assuming too much for your [his] own good" While I am not sure exactly what/why Steve H. is doing what he's doing, I understand it's for a client who wants this particular assembly. Steve H, like the rest of us who are succeeding in business are trying to solve problems for a client and trying to make a client happy. Just because Jeep did it one way, doesn't mean that there are not other ways. We will face a shortage of parts and will need to improvise in order to cover the myriad of formats that have been recorded. In addition to audio, reel-to-reel analog tape was also used for instrumentation purposes, and having recently placed a toe into those waters, I am convinced that they are two parallel universes. I have successfully transferred a six-hour instrumentation tape that was FM recorded as a copy of a Direct (AM) recording of seismic shots profiling a lake. It was quite a surprise to the client and to me that it was an FM tape, as the original was most likely NOT FM and that an FM copy would be made was odd to say the least. What did I play it back on? My Sony APR-16 (like a smaller APR-24) with Applied Magnetics IRIG 4/3 heads scavenged from a Racal Store 7 DS and mounted by John French. When I discovered it was an FM recording, I was able to configure my Racal Store 4 DS to demodulate the FM in a play/record loop from the original Direct (AM) transfers in the computer. Since there was no DC data of interest on the FM, it was easy to go back into my sound card. So, if that's not sheep heads on dogs, I don't know what is, but the bottom line is that it worked for my client who was unable to find anyone in the "oil patch" who could reproduce the tape for him. The reason I have the IRIG heads on the Sony APR-16 is that I don't really want to have to maintain or store a complete other transport for the one or two IRIG tapes I'm asked to do a year. Also, the Racal Store 4 DS was purchased more for audio work because of its ability to actually run at 15/16 in/s and it's a 4-track machine, so I could use it for listening (with external re-equalization) to very slow tapes in real time, although I would normally undertake to transfer at 2x using an APR-5002 at 1.88 in/s (set for 3.75 with -50% varispeed and memory C storing the EQ settings obtained from an MRL 1.88 in/s test tape). The re-eq from 1.88 to 15/16 would be handled in the computer. Another part of the challenge was that since the instrumentation tape was 1.88 in/s, I needed to slow down the APR-16 (natively a 15/30 transport) to its lowest stable speed, which is 3.75 in/s - I did that by testing my signal / function generators and finding an HP3311A as the most stable, used that, coupled with a frequency counter to be sure as the reference source for the capstan. I really think that those of us who will get ahead in tape recovery/preservati on/reformatting/ restoration will need a lot of skills, and I think marrying unconventional components to achieve the desired ends will become more common. In addition to this combination approach (I call my 4-track APR-5003V player assembly the FrankenSony) , we also will need to become chemists to understand the degradation paths of various tapes and the best methods to make degraded tapes playable, if only for one pass. I happen to like the ceramic capstan servo motors and I will have a bunch coming out of Pacific Recorder TOMCAT cartridge recorders that will be up for grabs later this year. In fact, if you want one or more, please let me know. I have enough APR-5000 motors at this point that I don't think I need the TOMCAT motors, but I wanted the TOMCAT electronics for more hybrids--and as an ultimate backup. I hope that each of us can help the other as we all have pieces of knowledge that are unique, and unique perspectives towards problem solving (although the use of the word 'problem' has gone out of fashion and we only have 'issues' and 'challenges' today). No one person can do it all and there are enough degrading tapes out there for everyone. In fact, the challenge will be to identify, prioritize, fund, and transfer what is out there before it is too degraded to transfer. The Black Star still image collection, when purchased by Corbis, was immediately frozen on the advice of Henry Wilhelm to stabilize it, as it would not have been possible to digitize that one collection in time to save it all. Cheers, Richard At 06:22 PM 7/14/2006, Steve (mcijh@...) wrote: >I wasn't going to reply, but I changed my mind....I've avoided >replying when you posted on other forums. Wouldn't it have been >easier to put a set of Ampex audio w/ an MCI Xport? That's what Jeep did. > >I have all the things youv'e asked for, and know all the things >you've asked, and more. But, I won't give them to you, or tell you, >because you already assume too much for your own good. It would >only cause you to want to put Sheep heads on Dogs. Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #987 From: "jooshtin" Date: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:02 pm Subject: APR5003v - erratic recording jooshtin Offline Send Email Hi all, Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on channel 1 dropped and was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, so I re-aligned it via the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in channel 1 has dropped/ distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays with card 1. For all the tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no longer the over-bias settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the bias adjustment on the alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones today smoke started coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio card which is labeled "apr 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The input levels are fine, all the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can give, many thanks, Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #988 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:44 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording ladewd Offline Send Email Were you in record when things started smoking? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on channel 1 dropped and > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, so I re-aligned it via > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in channel 1 has dropped/ > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays with card 1. For all the > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no longer the over-bias > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the bias adjustment on the > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones today smoke started > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio card which is labeled "apr > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The input levels are fine, all > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can give, > > many thanks, > > Justin > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #989 From: "jooshtin" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 4:10 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording jooshtin Offline Send Email Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias adjustment on each channel on the alignment keypad. Cheers Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > channel 1 dropped and > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, > so I re-aligned it via > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > channel 1 has dropped/ > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays > with card 1. For all the > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > longer the over-bias > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the > bias adjustment on the > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > today smoke started > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio > card which is labeled "apr > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > input levels are fine, all > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can > give, > > > > many thanks, > > > > Justin > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #990 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 8:48 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording ladewd Offline Send Email Justin, Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel cards. Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or it may smoke again. The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication something was wrong and now things got worse. I can't offer you any more advice without any more information Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias adjustment on each > channel on the alignment keypad. > > Cheers > > Justin > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > channel 1 dropped and > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, > > so I re-aligned it via > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays > > with card 1. For all the > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > longer the over-bias > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the > > bias adjustment on the > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > today smoke started > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio > > card which is labeled "apr > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > input levels are fine, all > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can > > give, > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #991 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 3:21 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording eddieaudio Offline Send Email I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to anyone who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to re-adjust - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the exception of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that something more serious is wrong... eddie c. Justin, Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel cards. Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or it may smoke again. The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication something was wrong and now things got worse. I can't offer you any more advice without any more information Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias adjustment on each > channel on the alignment keypad. > > Cheers > > Justin > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > channel 1 dropped and > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, > > so I re-aligned it via > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays > > with card 1. For all the > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > longer the over-bias > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the > > bias adjustment on the > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > today smoke started > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio > > card which is labeled "apr > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > input levels are fine, all > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can > > give, > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #992 From: "jooshtin" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 7:08 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording jooshtin Offline Send Email Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the face of it it seems only c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear Technology who were the UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they are checking availability of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If anything like this happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! cheers, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to anyone > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to re-adjust > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the exception > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that something more > serious is wrong... > > eddie c. > > > > Justin, > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel cards. > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or it may > > smoke again. > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias > > adjustment on each > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > > > today smoke started > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #993 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 12:26 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording ladewd Offline Send Email Justin, Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never existed. I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding Sony techs that remember these machines. Good Luck with it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the face of it it seems only > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear Technology who were the > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they are checking availability > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If anything like this > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! > > cheers, > > Justin > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to anyone > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to re-adjust > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the exception > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that something more > > serious is wrong... > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel cards. > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or it may > > > smoke again. > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias > > > adjustment on each > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > , "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on channel 1, > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level drop stays > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom left on the > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel 1 audio > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software version > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the group can > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #994 From: "jooshtin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 9:54 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording jooshtin Offline Send Email Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an encouraging chat with one of their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to say Sony don't supply spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even look at it. So much for the UK Sony Professional service company! If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it over I'd be grateful. In the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... Many thanks, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Justin, > > Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR > series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never existed. > I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding Sony techs > that remember these machines. > > Good Luck with it. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the > face of it it seems only > > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear > Technology who were the > > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they > are checking availability > > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If > anything like this > > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! > > > > cheers, > > > > Justin > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to anyone > > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to > re-adjust > > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the > exception > > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that something more > > > serious is wrong... > > > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I > > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. > > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps > > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms > > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel > cards. > > > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look > > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get > > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the > > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to > > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio > > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install > > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You > > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace > > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or > it may > > > > smoke again. > > > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the > > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , > > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias > > > > adjustment on each > > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , > > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "jooshtin" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on > channel 1, > > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level > drop stays > > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom > left on the > > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it > off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel > 1 audio > > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software > version > > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the > group can > > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #995 From: Audio Synergy Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 4:32 am Subject: Re: Let it Flow & Let It6 Go............! Creative Solutions audiosynergy Offline Send Email I ................................ Concur fully with Mr. Richard Hess's view below. As a professional Consultant insuring large installations are "State of The Art"; alongside being of a viable & operational nature in so much as "Spending" huge (Often Ridicules $000,000,000K.) amounts of Money; be it for "Government", "Private Sector" and often "Worship & Religious" groups" - I still deal with those building more modest Project Studios, Private Studios, even "Bedroom Studios" & believe that the advice I received as a 14 year old "Tape Op" working in a Studio with a MCI JH16/24 Trk with no Auto-locater "Punching In & Out" continuously for 12 Hour sessions has stood me in good stead. I have had numerous "Mentor's" over the years, more so I feel grateful they dispelled the myths from the realities of "Recording Consoles & Analogue Tape Machines"; compressing into my head (So to Speak!) the immense knowledge of, tips, tricks, idiosyncrasies and standards adopted since I started as a Kid in 1984. To this day I have an excellent relationship with "Product Specialists" from many OEM groups (Past & Present Companies) inclusive of a diverse group of "Audio Intelligencia" that involve true Gentlemen Engineers who worked in 1950's Radio who kindly offer their opinion and readily spill content when sort or required by myself for a project be it "Up & Coming" for "Tender" or a "Job" in present design. Having acquired this knowledge; of what use is it, should I not pass on the many facts & figures and taking the weekly Phone Calls & enquiries that usually involve "Younger Audiophiles" working their way through flaws in strategy, budget & design; to those whom wish a serious future in Audio, though only have rudimentary books for learning and who's options are solely institutional learning & the "Guff offered by those, such as the "SAE Impart" (Hey sign up with SAE & get a free Mac Book!). By the time I was 20, SAE Graduates looking for a Tape Op Job couldn't even align a 2 Track let alone a 24 Track. When one young guy fresh out of "A Audio School" tried to align the Sony PCM 3324 A with a 1/4 inch MRL I thought, no...... Never!.................................................................. ..................! Though It really did happen! It is now more important then ever in this world that we inquire, require, distribute and impart each other's knowledge. Personally I feel we have an obligation to do so; should Technical instructions being made available be seen as a threat to those who feel that it may impede their particular cornered profession, I feel sorry for you, you've obviously never have had a great "Mentor". As the saying goes "Your only as good as your last job", and their will always be some one the wiser then you! Look at these "Cubase Lite Producers", everybody I meet these days claims to be a so called "Sound Engineer" in part; one way or another! "The Computer Driven Digital Era has brought many benefits though as "Darwinian" as it may seem, natural selection will see only the best progress while the others fail & lose interest. That may not include all OEM's though as the thread runs; analogue is now at an all time low in the public domain, though huge high in the Niche domain. Those dealing with Equipment matters and issues have logged on to this "Web Forum for a specific purpose; SONY APR & MCI Tape Machines et all. Many are very proactive in this group. Others such as myself seem to be the occasional contributor and observer as I have a vested interest in this very forum, one being an APR 5003V 1/4 inch & the other being an 1/2 Inch APR 5003V Upgrade specifically for Mastering. The fact that most Mastering Engineers in my country seem to prefer a well recorded Analogue Master then Wave Files is a testament to Analogue Tape, the machines and this Forum. May it last at least 15 more years; Jazz, AudioSynergy@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #996 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 10:17 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - erratic recording ladewd Offline Send Email That's one of the main reasons I left Sony. They would send me out on a field call and never have the parts available for me to fix the machines. This wasn't only the APR series, but all audio products. Fortunately, the APR CNL and MST cards use off-the-shelf parts. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding the transistors and other parts you'll need to fix it. You'll only run into a jam if you need the i/o hybrids they used in the non-surface mount cards. The surface mount cards use SSM chips which you can still get from Analog Devices, which is fortunate, since they seem to blow quite often. BTW, an oscilloscope would be a necessity to troubleshoot bias and erase problems. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an encouraging chat with one of > their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to say Sony don't supply > spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even look at it. So much for > the UK Sony Professional service company! > > If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it over I'd be grateful. In > the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... > > Many thanks, > > Justin > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Justin, > > > > Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR > > series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never existed. > > I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding Sony techs > > that remember these machines. > > > > Good Luck with it. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the > > face of it it seems only > > > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear > > Technology who were the > > > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they > > are checking availability > > > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If > > anything like this > > > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to anyone > > > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to > > re-adjust > > > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the > > exception > > > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that something more > > > > serious is wrong... > > > > > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related failures, I > > > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio Master Card. > > > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, perhaps > > > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase waveforms > > > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel > > cards. > > > > > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and look > > > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks will get > > > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which insulates the > > > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only fix is to > > > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the Audio > > > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course install > > > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card #2. You > > > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and replace > > > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or > > it may > > > > > smoke again. > > > > > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to operate the > > > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , > > > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack of) bias > > > > > adjustment on each > > > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , > > > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > , "jooshtin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the level on > > > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on > > channel 1, > > > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record level in > > > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level > > drop stays > > > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels are no > > > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom > > left on the > > > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some test tones > > > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it > > off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel > > 1 audio > > > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the machine. The > > > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software > > version > > > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the > > group can > > > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #997 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Aug 4, 2006 11:55 pm Subject: Re: Let it Flow & Let It6 Go............! Creative Solutions bae_steve Offline Send Email Crap, Crap, and more Crap. This is Bullshit. I don't drive a Mercedes, or live in a fine house w/ a swimming pool. No one does, or ever has given me anything. Even the Design Engineers @ MCI/Sony (thanks for the lessons, Ted S.) made me answer a hundred questions in order to find out what time they were going to lunch. Is this a gimme, gimme, forum where I'm on the give side and thin skinned lazy ass gimme guys are on the other, or is this a place where those of us who can think for ourselves can discuss our industry? Every other Forum is gimme, gimme, gimme. Nothing is ever given back. If Steve Hogan is such a smart ass in the industry; who has done this, and done that, and is a major whiz kid: Give me something...........send me the optimum mic pre circuit, w/ the quintisential EQ, and you can have anything I have, or know. I doubt that I'll be marketing OpMicPre's, or Q-EQ's soon. Offer something , before you insist upon gimme, gimme, gimme. And don't whine when you don't get it. Quit Shot-gunning, and think about How, What, and Why. Oh, and while you're thinking, EAT ME! SS -----Original Message----- From: AudioSynergy@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Let it Flow & Let It6 Go............! Creative Solutions I ................................ Concur fully with Mr. Richard Hess's view below. As a professional Consultant insuring large installations are "State of The Art"; alongside being of a viable & operational nature in so much as "Spending" huge (Often Ridicules $000,000,000K.) amounts of Money; be it for "Government", "Private Sector" and often "Worship & Religious" groups" - I still deal with those building more modest Project Studios, Private Studios, even "Bedroom Studios" & believe that the advice I received as a 14 year old "Tape Op" working in a Studio with a MCI JH16/24 Trk with no Auto-locater "Punching In & Out" continuously for 12 Hour sessions has stood me in good stead. I have had numerous "Mentor's" over the years, more so I feel grateful they dispelled the myths from the realities of "Recording Consoles & Analogue Tape Machines"; compressing into my head (So to Speak!) the immense knowledge of, tips, tricks, idiosyncrasies and standards adopted since I started as a Kid in 1984. To this day I have an excellent relationship with "Product Specialists" from many OEM groups (Past & Present Companies) inclusive of a diverse group of "Audio Intelligencia" that involve true Gentlemen Engineers who worked in 1950's Radio who kindly offer their opinion and readily spill content when sort or required by myself for a project be it "Up & Coming" for "Tender" or a "Job" in present design. Having acquired this knowledge; of what use is it, should I not pass on the many facts & figures and taking the weekly Phone Calls & enquiries that usually involve "Younger Audiophiles" working their way through flaws in strategy, budget & design; to those whom wish a serious future in Audio, though only have rudimentary books for learning and who's options are solely institutional learning & the "Guff offered by those, such as the "SAE Impart" (Hey sign up with SAE & get a free Mac Book!). By the time I was 20, SAE Graduates looking for a Tape Op Job couldn't even align a 2 Track let alone a 24 Track. When one young guy fresh out of "A Audio School" tried to align the Sony PCM 3324 A with a 1/4 inch MRL I thought, no...... Never!.................................................................. ..................! Though It really did happen! It is now more important then ever in this world that we inquire, require, distribute and impart each other's knowledge. Personally I feel we have an obligation to do so; should Technical instructions being made available be seen as a threat to those who feel that it may impede their particular cornered profession, I feel sorry for you, you've obviously never have had a great "Mentor". As the saying goes "Your only as good as your last job", and their will always be some one the wiser then you! Look at these "Cubase Lite Producers", everybody I meet these days claims to be a so called "Sound Engineer" in part; one way or another! "The Computer Driven Digital Era has brought many benefits though as "Darwinian" as it may seem, natural selection will see only the best progress while the others fail & lose interest. That may not include all OEM's though as the thread runs; analogue is now at an all time low in the public domain, though huge high in the Niche domain. Those dealing with Equipment matters and issues have logged on to this "Web Forum for a specific purpose; SONY APR & MCI Tape Machines et all. Many are very proactive in this group. Others such as myself seem to be the occasional contributor and observer as I have a vested interest in this very forum, one being an APR 5003V 1/4 inch & the other being an 1/2 Inch APR 5003V Upgrade specifically for Mastering. The fact that most Mastering Engineers in my country seem to prefer a well recorded Analogue Master then Wave Files is a testament to Analogue Tape, the machines and this Forum. May it last at least 15 more years; Jazz, AudioSynergy@bigpond.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #998 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 11:11 am Subject: ADMIN: Please Read richardlhess Offline Send Email The discussion of who gives and who takes is closed on this list. To enforce this, the list has now gone to moderation. In the future, here are the rules: If someone asks a question, please answer it if you feel so inclined. If you feel it's a stupid question, or that they are asking too much, or the way they asked it ticked you off, or you don't like their project, or anything else, please simply refrain from answering it. In other words, IGNORE THINGS THAT TICK YOU OFF. If you wish to vent about a particular posting, please send me an email. There are always people who give more than they take on a list. The people who give and the people who take sometimes change positions, but not often. In the context of this list, Sony and MCI tape machines, those with long-term factory/dealer service experience are, by definition, going to be the givers. This is a gift that we all greatly appreciate and it helps the rest of us keep these machines running and out of the landfill. We're trying to keep this a focused, low-volume list where people can come to get help on their MCI and Sony professional tape recorders. We can have some fun, but we don't want this to turn into a general purpose chat room. Certainly items related to the use of the Sony and MCI tape machines are on-topic (noise reduction, tape stocks, test equipment, etc.) and general tape recorder questions at a high level are welcome. Consumer-level tape questions are better off at the reel-to-reel forum on Yahoo groups. Thanks for your time. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #999 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:02 pm Subject: Help Desk Still Open ladewd Offline Send Email Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out those of you with questions. I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level of my career, whatever that may be. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1000 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:26 pm Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open Mark4@... Send Email I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 consoles. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "ladewd" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > those of you with questions. > > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level > of my career, whatever that may be. > > Cary > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1001 From: "AllegroSound.com" Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:59 pm Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open allegrosound Offline Send Email ok, here's one: re APR-5002/3, do you have available: - hs cover-plate. - extender-card. - 1/2" 2-trk hs. - 1/4" 2-trk hs. Your kind assistance is greatly appreciated. Best regards & good sound :-) Rick@... ladewd wrote: Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out those of you with questions. I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level of my career, whatever that may be. Cary . Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1002 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:44 pm Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open ladewd Offline Send Email Unfortunately Rick, I do not have any extras of the items you mentioned. I have one set of 1/2" heads with no long guides and connector standoffs, and I'm saving them for when I can get the hardware. I have a few 1/4" headstacks, but they're all different style heads and I'm not willing to part with any of them. I haven't seen a cover plate in years and sold my last extender card about a year ago. Sorry I can't be of help to you at this time. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "AllegroSound.com" wrote: > > ok, here's one: > re APR-5002/3, > do you have available: > - hs cover-plate. > - extender-card. > - 1/2" 2-trk hs. > - 1/4" 2-trk hs. > Your kind assistance is greatly appreciated. > Best regards & good sound :-) > Rick@... > > ladewd wrote: > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > those of you with questions. I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level of my career, whatever that may be. Cary > . > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1003 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:13 am Subject: RE: Help Desk Still Open ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Moldy-oldy !! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Durenberger Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:27 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 consoles. Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "ladewd" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > those of you with questions. > > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level > of my career, whatever that may be. > > Cary > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1004 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:17 am Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open eddieaudio Offline Send Email I worked at MCI from late '76 to early '77, worked on power supplies and tape deck electronics before moving on to consoles - the 428 and then the 500 series. eddie ciletti > I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 > consoles. > > Mark Durenberger > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ladewd" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM > Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open > > > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > > those of you with questions. > > > > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks > > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm > > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level > > of my career, whatever that may be. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1005 From: "MD at Upsala" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:26 pm Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open Mark4@... Send Email I hear John Shepherd is now in (Oklahoma?) according to Gary Harned. MD ----- Original Message ----- From: "eddie ciletti" To: Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open >I worked at MCI from late '76 to early '77, worked on power supplies and > tape deck electronics before moving on to consoles - the 428 and then > the 500 series. > > eddie ciletti > > >> I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 >> consoles. >> >> Mark Durenberger >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "ladewd" > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM >> Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open >> >> > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that >> > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out >> > those of you with questions. >> > >> > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks >> > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm >> > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level >> > of my career, whatever that may be. >> > >> > Cary >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1006 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:58 pm Subject: Re: Help Desk Still Open ladewd Offline Send Email I wasted the '70's being a bar musician and partying way too much. I started at MCI in '83, right after the Sony purchase. We were still making 500's but mainly 600's, JH110C's and JH24's. I started in PC test troubleshooting JH600 and JH500 i/o's off the assembly line. Then I got involved in the JH800 series. Not many remember these because Sony bought back every one they sold except for a couple of units. It was a small broadcast console that never found its niche (also it never worked properly). I worked in final test on the APR5000 series and then got into the service dept about the same time as the APR24's came out. I learned all the JH tape products once I got into the service dept. Steve Sadler was kind enough to train me on them. When Sony closed the plant, they were gracious enough to re-locate me out to LA, where I really began to hate my job. I finally left after 20 years with Sony. I should have stayed in Ft. Lauderdale and found another gig. LA is severely lacking in tiki bars with tropical drinks. I can't find a decent rum runner out here, just margaritas :( Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > I worked at MCI from late '76 to early '77, worked on power supplies and > tape deck electronics before moving on to consoles - the 428 and then > the 500 series. > > eddie ciletti > > > > I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 > > consoles. > > > > Mark Durenberger > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ladewd" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM > > Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open > > > > > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > > > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > > > those of you with questions. > > > > > > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few folks > > > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm > > > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next level > > > of my career, whatever that may be. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1007 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: Help Desk Still Open eddieaudio Offline Send Email I started in PC test also, but in the previous plant at 4007 N.E. 6th ave. One of the coolest things I remember is watching the pinch roller get cut on a lathe after/while being frozen with nitrogen. I also liked flirting with the production girls for which I always got in trouble. ec http://www.tangible-technology.com/a_dig/mci/mci_77.html > I wasted the '70's being a bar musician and partying way too much. > > I started at MCI in '83, right after the Sony purchase. We were still > making 500's but mainly 600's, JH110C's and JH24's. I started in PC > test troubleshooting JH600 and JH500 i/o's off the assembly line. Then > I got involved in the JH800 series. Not many remember these because > Sony bought back every one they sold except for a couple of units. It > was a small broadcast console that never found its niche (also it > never worked properly). > > I worked in final test on the APR5000 series and then got into the > service dept about the same time as the APR24's came out. I learned > all the JH tape products once I got into the service dept. Steve > Sadler was kind enough to train me on them. > > When Sony closed the plant, they were gracious enough to re-locate me > out to LA, where I really began to hate my job. I finally left after > 20 years with Sony. I should have stayed in Ft. Lauderdale and found > another gig. LA is severely lacking in tiki bars with tropical > drinks. I can't find a decent rum runner out here, just margaritas :( > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > I worked at MCI from late '76 to early '77, worked on power supplies > and > > tape deck electronics before moving on to consoles - the 428 and then > > the 500 series. > > > > eddie ciletti > > > > > > > I'm with you Cary. I go back to the first MCI JH machines and the 428 > > > consoles. > > > > > > Mark Durenberger > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "ladewd" > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:02 AM > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Help Desk Still Open > > > > > > > Wow, After that last fiasco, this group has died. Be advised that > > > > there are still some of us MCI/Sony guys here willing to help out > > > > those of you with questions. > > > > > > > > I have come to the realization that I am a dinosaur and very few > folks > > > > can use the skills I learned over the course of my life. Still, I'm > > > > willing to help others out as I attempt to progress to the next > level > > > > of my career, whatever that may be. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1008 From: "AllegroSound.com" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:06 pm Subject: Re: Re: Help Desk Still Open allegrosound Offline Send Email here's to ya, Cary :-) http://www.tradervics.com/rest-beverlyhills.html ladewd wrote: I wasted the '70's being a bar musician and partying way too much. I started at MCI in '83, right after the Sony purchase. We were still making 500's but mainly 600's, JH110C's and JH24's. I started in PC test troubleshooting JH600 and JH500 i/o's off the assembly line. Then I got involved in the JH800 series. Not many remember these because Sony bought back every one they sold except for a couple of units. It was a small broadcast console that never found its niche (also it never worked properly). I worked in final test on the APR5000 series and then got into the service dept about the same time as the APR24's came out. I learned all the JH tape products once I got into the service dept. Steve Sadler was kind enough to train me on them. When Sony closed the plant, they were gracious enough to re-locate me out to LA, where I really began to hate my job. I finally left after 20 years with Sony. I should have stayed in Ft. Lauderdale and found another gig. LA is severely lacking in tiki bars with tropical drinks. I can't find a decent rum runner out here, just margaritas :( Cary --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1009 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Sun Sep 3, 2006 4:51 pm Subject: MCI JH-110 for sale andy30ips Offline Send Email I am selling my trusty 1/4" 2 track MCI JH-110 in a rollaround - I figured I would start here. It works well (could use a little tune up and some contact cleaner), but it gets little use these days, the APR being a superior machine. I would rather not ship it, so the first person who shows up at my home in Stamford, CT with a truck or SUV can take it away for $400 - certainly worth that in parts alone. (Email me for pix if you wish, but I think you all know what it looks like - machine in very good shape). Thanks - Andy Pennella Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1010 From: "idylldon" Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 3:44 pm Subject: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions idylldon Offline Send Email I've been told that the 5534 is a direct replacement for the 2003 ICs used in this machine, but I can't find the replacement number for the 2004 IC. Anyone know? Also, I'm getting ready to order all the caps for a recap job and there's a note on the Output Module Schematic I have that says, "Factory says C1, C2, and C5 whould be .1mfd instead of .68mfd. We didn't." Should I do this factory suggested replacement when I recap? Thanks in advance for any advice. Cheers, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1011 From: "Mark Durenberger" Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 4:30 pm Subject: Re: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions Mark4@... Send Email Uhmmm...the absolute power supply limits for the 5534 are +/- 22 volts (and they're usually run at +/- 18 volts). I think the machine delivers +/- 24 volts to the socket, doesn't it? You probably should check the schematic. MCI factory-suggested mods were usually the result of lessons learned in/from the field. I'd follow their suggestion. Regards, Mark Durenberger ----- Original Message ----- From: "idylldon" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: [sony_apr] A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions > I've been told that the 5534 is a direct replacement for the 2003 ICs > used in this machine, but I can't find the replacement number for the > 2004 IC. Anyone know? > > Also, I'm getting ready to order all the caps for a recap job and > there's a note on the Output Module Schematic I have that says, > "Factory says C1, C2, and C5 whould be .1mfd instead of .68mfd. We > didn't." > > Should I do this factory suggested replacement when I recap? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > > Cheers, > -- > Don > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1012 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 3:21 pm Subject: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Does anyone have any experience with Terry's Rubber Rollers & Wheels? http://www.srdpc.com/witt/ Any other suggestions? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1013 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 3:07 pm Subject: NEEDED: MANUAL for Dictaphone 4000 Logging Reproducer / Time Code Reader richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I need a manual for a Dictaphone 4000 series logging recorder and its associate time code reader. I would also like a source for pressure rollers. I have a potential client who is in desparate need of a rental machine and cannot send me the tapes. Fortunately the machine I have is in a travel case. How low a speed can one coax out of an Ampex Hysterisis/Synchronous capstan motor? I know it's 1.88 in/s for the Sony APR-5000 servo motor. What about the Ampex servo motor? I need 15/32 in/s. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1014 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 8:01 pm Subject: Re: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions bae_steve Offline Send Email The 2003 is a single Op-Amp and is a 5534. The 2004 is a dual Op-Amp and is a 5532. C1, C2, & C5 on the I/O card are not critical. Replace them or don't. No signal passes thru them, they're filters on the Repro/Input/Cue FET enable lines. SS -----Original Message----- From: idylldon@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 2:44 PM Subject: [sony_apr] A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions I've been told that the 5534 is a direct replacement for the 2003 ICs used in this machine, but I can't find the replacement number for the 2004 IC. Anyone know? Also, I'm getting ready to order all the caps for a recap job and there's a note on the Output Module Schematic I have that says, "Factory says C1, C2, and C5 whould be .1mfd instead of .68mfd. We didn't." Should I do this factory suggested replacement when I recap? Thanks in advance for any advice. Cheers, -- Don ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1015 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 3:30 pm Subject: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard Terry just did two B-67 rollers for me - and I saved 50% because he reused the original bearing. He does nice work. eddie ciletti L. Hess wrote: > > Hi, Does anyone have any experience with Terry's Rubber Rollers & Wheels? > > http://www.srdpc.com/witt/ > > Any other suggestions? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1016 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 4:57 pm Subject: Re: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions masteringman... Offline Send Email Don: > but I can't find the replacement > number for the 2004 IC. 5532. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1017 From: "idylldon" Date: Wed Sep 6, 2006 6:45 pm Subject: Re: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions idylldon Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Durenberger" wrote: > > Uhmmm...the absolute power supply limits for the 5534 are +/- 22 volts (and > they're usually run at +/- 18 volts). > > I think the machine delivers +/- 24 volts to the socket, doesn't it? No, it's +/-18 according to the schematic I have. > MCI factory-suggested mods were usually the result of lessons learned > in/from the field. I'd follow their suggestion. Yeah, that's what I kind of figured, but thought I'd verify it before ordering the value of cap they recommend. Cheers, -- Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1018 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 4:23 pm Subject: Re: NEEDED: MANUAL for Dictaphone 4000 Logging Reproducer / Time Code Reader eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard considering the bandwidth at 15/16, perhaps running at double or 4x speed captured at 88.2 or 176.4 (then, using a 44.1 external clock, to play the recording at its original speed) might be easier? you could do a flat transfer... L. Hess wrote: > > Hi, I need a manual for a Dictaphone 4000 series logging recorder and > its associate time code reader. > > I would also like a source for pressure rollers. > > I have a potential client who is in desparate need of a rental > machine and cannot send me the tapes. Fortunately the machine I have > is in a travel case. > > How low a speed can one coax out of an Ampex Hysterisis/Synchronous > capstan motor? I know it's 1.88 in/s for the Sony APR-5000 servo > motor. What about the Ampex servo motor? I need 15/32 in/s. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1019 From: "idylldon" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 5:47 pm Subject: Re: A couple of quick MCI JH-24 Questions idylldon Offline Send Email Thanks to all for the responses, and thanks, Steve, for easing my mind about those I/O card caps. Cheers, -- Don --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, mcijh@... wrote: > The 2003 is a single Op-Amp and is a 5534. The 2004 is a dual > Op-Amp and is a 5532. > C1, C2, & C5 on the I/O card are not critical. Replace them or > don't. No signal passes thru them, they're filters on the > Repro/Input/Cue FET enable lines. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1020 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 5:17 pm Subject: RE: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi Richard -- Terry did MR70 pinch rollers for me. Came out just fine. Best, -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: September 07, 2006 3:22 PM > To: ampex List; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Pinch Roller Rebuild ? > > > Hi, Does anyone have any experience with Terry's Rubber > Rollers & Wheels? > http://www.srdpc.com/witt/ Any other suggestions? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1021 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 7:17 pm Subject: Re: NEEDED: MANUAL for Dictaphone 4000 Logging Reproducer / Time Code Reader richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Eddie, Thanks so much for the suggestions. There are several issues I need to expand more so you'll know the reason that I'm going this route. First of all, the tapes in question are 20-track 1/2" tapes and I have the head assembly for the Dictaphone 4000. Since the highest track count I have is currently 16 tracks in the APR-16, I could get by with that or outboarding the Dictaphone electronics and using the APR-16 transport (as you may recall the APR-16 is the only one ever built and it's a cut-down APR-24). But, since the tapes are 15/32 (not 15/16) and the APR-16 stops behaving well at 3.75 in/s, I would need to run the process at 8x real time. I only have 96 ks/s sampling capabilities, but that would work as that would still give me 5 kHz bandwidth (96/8 = 12, Nuquist at 12/2 = 6) which I suspect would be adequate, but mounting the 20-track heads on the APR-16 is a big JRF project, especially considered that they are stagger heads. However, that was how I was planning on doing it, BUT the client in question has strict non-disclosure stuff and cannot even hint what it is and cannot let the tapes out of where he's doing the work, so he needs a portable case -- which my machine has. My machine was originally designed for court playback of the logging tapes and was hardly ever used. It is actually in a 40-track 1" configuration, but I do have the 1/2" 20-track head assembly. Anyway, that's the saga of this. It appears there is one reproducer in NYC and that the agency that has it won't let it out of their sight. Oh the joys of obsolete technology. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1022 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 7:56 pm Subject: Re: NEEDED: MANUAL for Dictaphone 4000 Logging Reproducer / Time Code Reader eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard forgive me if my cursory read yields inaccurate results, but, it sounds like you need a very portable head preamp assembly. You don't need EQ, just a line level out and gain trim, so perhaps you might consider having someone like Dave Hill fabricate a board with 24 preamps - it could be surface mount and very "portable" (the extra four preamps would be spares with some way to easily jumper individual tracks to preamps). In concept, it would be similar to studer's approach in the a827. on the right track? ec L. Hess wrote: > > Hello, Eddie, > > Thanks so much for the suggestions. > > There are several issues I need to expand more so you'll know the > reason that I'm going this route. > > First of all, the tapes in question are 20-track 1/2" tapes and I > have the head assembly for the Dictaphone 4000. Since the highest > track count I have is currently 16 tracks in the APR-16, I could get > by with that or outboarding the Dictaphone electronics and using the > APR-16 transport (as you may recall the APR-16 is the only one ever > built and it's a cut-down APR-24). > > But, since the tapes are 15/32 (not 15/16) and the APR-16 stops > behaving well at 3.75 in/s, I would need to run the process at 8x > real time. I only have 96 ks/s sampling capabilities, but that would > work as that would still give me 5 kHz bandwidth (96/8 = 12, Nuquist > at 12/2 = 6) which I suspect would be adequate, but mounting the > 20-track heads on the APR-16 is a big JRF project, especially > considered that they are stagger heads. > > However, that was how I was planning on doing it, BUT the client in > question has strict non-disclosure stuff and cannot even hint what it > is and cannot let the tapes out of where he's doing the work, so he > needs a portable case -- which my machine has. > > My machine was originally designed for court playback of the logging > tapes and was hardly ever used. It is actually in a 40-track 1" > configuration, but I do have the 1/2" 20-track head assembly. > > Anyway, that's the saga of this. It appears there is one reproducer > in NYC and that the agency that has it won't let it out of their sight. > > Oh the joys of obsolete technology. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1023 From: "record2tape" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 7:59 pm Subject: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? record2tape Offline Send Email He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can determine. I would recommend his work highly. Kevin Peckham --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Does anyone have any experience with Terry's Rubber Rollers & Wheels? > > http://www.srdpc.com/witt/ > > Any other suggestions? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1024 From: "VFelix" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 9:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? rom0964 Offline Send Email Does he do all brands? New comer here, Vincer :) record2tape wrote: >He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can >determine. I would recommend his work highly. > >Kevin Peckham > > >--- > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1025 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 9:19 pm Subject: Re: NEEDED: MANUAL for Dictaphone 4000 Logging Reproducer / Time Code Reader richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, You're thinking along the same lines I've been thinking along for a while. However, this is not that project. What should work reasonably well is to just get the existing machine working. I have MAYBE located a manual and I've spoken with Terry about the rubber parts and now that's a non-issue--they can be fabricated quickly. There are a few other minor issues, but getting my hands on the service manual is good. The nice thing about bringing the Dictaphone up to reasonable condition is that it's a simple stand-alone unit that doesn't have any complexity for the operator. I would not be operating this on location. It's a machine rental situation which I normally do not do but will in this case since it seems the only way out. An LM394 front end to a 5534 would make a very nice preamp -- and the EQ could be done in software reasonably enough. But, I'm also getting good at adding no noise that I can measure (above tape noise) with short head extensions, so I use one machine as a transport and an adjacent machine as the electronics. That has worked well with two side-by-side APR-5000s which I call my "Frankensony" and is how I acheive up to 4-track playback in a variety of totally odball formats (including, for example, Pacific Recorders TOMCAT cart tapes). My next step will be to use an 8-track 1/4" head from a Fostex machine and mount it on an APR-5000 and plug it into the APR-16. Keeping these cables short is very helpful, as is using low capacitance cable. A nice part of this is that the APR electronics card has an LM394 and is balanced. Cheers, Richard At 07:56 PM 9/7/2006, you wrote: >Richard > >forgive me if my cursory read yields inaccurate results, but, it sounds >like you need a very portable head preamp assembly. You don't need EQ, >just a line level out and gain trim, so perhaps you might consider >having someone like Dave Hill fabricate a board with 24 preamps - it >could be surface mount and very "portable" (the extra four preamps >would be spares with some way to easily jumper individual tracks to >preamps). In concept, it would be similar to studer's approach in the a827. > >on the right track? > >ec > >L. Hess wrote: > > > > Hello, Eddie, > > > > Thanks so much for the suggestions. > > > > There are several issues I need to expand more so you'll know the > > reason that I'm going this route. > > > > First of all, the tapes in question are 20-track 1/2" tapes and I > > have the head assembly for the Dictaphone 4000. Since the highest > > track count I have is currently 16 tracks in the APR-16, I could get > > by with that or outboarding the Dictaphone electronics and using the > > APR-16 transport (as you may recall the APR-16 is the only one ever > > built and it's a cut-down APR-24). > > > > But, since the tapes are 15/32 (not 15/16) and the APR-16 stops > > behaving well at 3.75 in/s, I would need to run the process at 8x > > real time. I only have 96 ks/s sampling capabilities, but that would > > work as that would still give me 5 kHz bandwidth (96/8 = 12, Nuquist > > at 12/2 = 6) which I suspect would be adequate, but mounting the > > 20-track heads on the APR-16 is a big JRF project, especially > > considered that they are stagger heads. > > > > However, that was how I was planning on doing it, BUT the client in > > question has strict non-disclosure stuff and cannot even hint what it > > is and cannot let the tapes out of where he's doing the work, so he > > needs a portable case -- which my machine has. > > > > My machine was originally designed for court playback of the logging > > tapes and was hardly ever used. It is actually in a 40-track 1" > > configuration, but I do have the 1/2" 20-track head assembly. > > > > Anyway, that's the saga of this. It appears there is one reproducer > > in NYC and that the agency that has it won't let it out of their sight. > > > > Oh the joys of obsolete technology. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1026 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 10:05 pm Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? richardlhess Offline Send Email He does anything and everything. At 09:46 PM 9/7/2006, you wrote: >Does he do all brands? >New comer here, Vincer :) > > > > > >record2tape wrote: > > >He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can > >determine. I would recommend his work highly. > > > >Kevin Peckham > > > > > >--- > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1027 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 10:18 pm Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? eddieaudio Offline Send Email As long as yo can give him a decent sample (or dimensions) to copy... > Does he do all brands? > New comer here, Vincer :) > > record2tape wrote: > > >He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can > >determine. I would recommend his work highly. > > > >Kevin Peckham > > > > > >--- > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1028 From: "VFelix" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 7:39 am Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? rom0964 Offline Send Email Cool, how about the origianl worn out roller? Vince eddie ciletti wrote: >As long as yo can give him a decent sample (or dimensions) to copy... > > > > >>Does he do all brands? >>New comer here, Vincer :) >> >>record2tape wrote: >> >> >> >>>He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can >>>determine. I would recommend his work highly. >>> >>>Kevin Peckham >>> >>> >>>--- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1029 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 9:21 am Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? richardlhess Offline Send Email Vince, Please go to the guy's website. While it's a bit difficult to navigate, it tells all. http://www.TerrysRubberRollers.com Usually, he removes the rubber from your roller and re-rubbers it. There are other options. From the response here and on the Ampex List it seems that he's the go-to guy for most of this. There is another source for Ampex rollers, but I don't have details. Cheers, Richard At 07:39 AM 9/8/2006, VFelix wrote: >Cool, how about the origianl worn out roller? >Vince > >eddie ciletti wrote: > > >As long as yo can give him a decent sample (or dimensions) to copy... > > > > > > > > > >>Does he do all brands? > >>New comer here, Vincer :) > >> > >>record2tape wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can > >>>determine. I would recommend his work highly. > >>> > >>>Kevin Peckham > >>> > >>> > >>>--- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1030 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 10:30 am Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? eddieaudio Offline Send Email YES! > Cool, how about the origianl worn out roller? > Vince > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > >As long as yo can give him a decent sample (or dimensions) to copy... > > > > > > > > > >>Does he do all brands? > >>New comer here, Vincer :) > >> > >>record2tape wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>He just did an Otari roller for me. It is perfect as far as I can > >>>determine. I would recommend his work highly. > >>> > >>>Kevin Peckham > >>> > >>> > >>>--- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1031 From: "VFelix" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 11:55 am Subject: Re: Re: Pinch Roller Rebuild ? rom0964 Offline Send Email Thanks Richard! :) Vince Richard L. Hess wrote: >Vince, > >Please go to the guy's website. While it's a bit difficult to >navigate, it tells all. >http://www.TerrysRubberRollers.com > >Usually, he removes the rubber from your roller and re-rubbers it. >There are other options. > > From the response here and on the Ampex List it seems that he's the >go-to guy for most of this. There is another source for Ampex >rollers, but I don't have details. > >Cheers, > >Richard > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1032 From: Jim Date: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:40 am Subject: MCI "A" Rev schematics analogb@... Send Email Greetings, I'm sending this for a colleague who doesn't have access to the list. Any help would be appreciated. TIA! Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com > >Do you have any docs for JH-110 "A" series electronics? One of my clients >has a JH-110-4. It has "A" electronics and "B" or "C" transport, and a >manual that goes with the transport. It's getting to be a bit of a strain >trying to reverse engineer the later schematics to get an idea of what >they were trying to do with the "A" series cards. The machine is working great on the 1st three channels, and the cards from the 4th work in channel three, so there is something up with the motherboard or backplane, or head cables with the fourth channel. And, yes, I have re-soldered all of the Molex connectors (though I'm not ruling out further grief there...). What I'm really after right now is a schematic for an "A" motherboard (doesn't have a meter buffer is the most noticeable attribute). Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1033 From: Everett Moran Date: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:15 pm Subject: Re: MCI "A" Rev schematics moranpro Offline Send Email I believe I have a full set of schematics for the "A" series, but will not be able to get to them until Wednesday. If your colleague is still in need at that time, I will be happy to scan the relevant section(s) for him. At 09:40 AM 9/26/2006, Jim wrote: >Greetings, > >I'm sending this for a colleague who doesn't have access to the list. Any >help would be appreciated. TIA! > >Regards, Jim >www.analogbros.com > > > > >Do you have any docs for JH-110 "A" series electronics? One of my clients > >has a JH-110-4. It has "A" electronics and "B" or "C" transport, and a > >manual that goes with the transport. It's getting to be a bit of a strain > >trying to reverse engineer the later schematics to get an idea of what > >they were trying to do with the "A" series cards. > >The machine is working great on the 1st three channels, and the cards from >the 4th work in channel three, so there is something up with the >motherboard or backplane, or head cables with the fourth channel. And, yes, >I have re-soldered all of the Molex connectors (though I'm not ruling out >further grief there...). What I'm really after right now is a schematic for >an "A" motherboard (doesn't have a meter buffer is the most noticeable >attribute). > > Everett Moran (303) 813-8410 (801) 218-5742 eFax [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1034 From: mcijh@... Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:22 am Subject: Re: MCI "A" Rev schematics bae_steve Offline Send Email www.blevinsaudio.com for MCI and MCI/Sony manual copies. SS -----Original Message----- From: analogb@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Cc: ike.zimbel@... Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:40 AM Subject: [sony_apr] MCI "A" Rev schematics Greetings, I'm sending this for a colleague who doesn't have access to the list. Any help would be appreciated. TIA! Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com > >Do you have any docs for JH-110 "A" series electronics? One of my clients >has a JH-110-4. It has "A" electronics and "B" or "C" transport, and a >manual that goes with the transport. It's getting to be a bit of a strain >trying to reverse engineer the later schematics to get an idea of what >they were trying to do with the "A" series cards. The machine is working great on the 1st three channels, and the cards from the 4th work in channel three, so there is something up with the motherboard or backplane, or head cables with the fourth channel. And, yes, I have re-soldered all of the Molex connectors (though I'm not ruling out further grief there...). What I'm really after right now is a schematic for an "A" motherboard (doesn't have a meter buffer is the most noticeable attribute). ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1035 From: "chuckmacak" Date: Fri Oct 6, 2006 6:41 pm Subject: light bulbs and parts chuckmacak Offline Send Email Where is the best place to get replacment bulbs for the VU's on my 5003. Also I need the little metal round grip thing for the latch on the stand to hold the machine in place, any ideas where i can find one. Thanks Chuck Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1036 From: "stellavoy" Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 9:20 am Subject: MCI JH-110 Manual/Schematics needed stellavoy Offline Send Email Hi Gentlemen, I just purchased Andy Pinella's machine that he advertised here earlier and am inquiring if anyone out there has a manual/copy that I could buy/copy or whatever? THANKS Charles king Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1037 From: "hsblake101" Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 3:46 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH-110 Manual/Schematics needed hsblake101 Offline Send Email I have the A and B series books available. Need a C copy for myself. Anyone willing to trade? H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Big Bear Lake,CA --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "stellavoy" wrote: > > Hi Gentlemen, > > I just purchased Andy Pinella's machine that he advertised here earlier > and am inquiring if anyone out there has a manual/copy that I could > buy/copy or whatever? > > THANKS > > Charles king > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1038 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:52 pm Subject: Correct way to turn on MCI PLL Card tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Fellow Analog tape engineering types: This inquiry relates to my installation of an MCI 110 DC servo motor onto an Ampes 351 tape deck with its PLL controller board, power supplies, etc.packaged in a separate rack mounted enclosure. Thanks to all who supplied documentation for my MCI PLL board (latest revision with NE555 timer and LED's) SC25D1033 rev.B. I have now breadboarded the entire collection of motor, power supplies, PLL board and a portion of a scrapped motherboard to support the the PLL board and I have it working. The long inquiry below asks what, if anything, must be done to the "ACC command" Pin 7 of P61 on the PLL board. I think it is an outgoing pulse routed to the Analog Torque board, (hence I would ignore it in my application), but I would be grateful if someone who knows this circuitry intimately might be willing to confirm my analysis below, or straighten out my misunderstanding. Thanks in advance for your willingness to help. Analysis below: I must be able to turn on the motor from a switch closure, and it appears from studying the schematics that the main method to turn on the motor is to apply +5 Volts to Pin 1 of P44 "Left Motion Play Command" on the PLL board. This charges up C24 to +5 volts which causes IC13 "slew-up amp" to saturate to the negative rail which turns on the drive to the motor to get it started. The motor runs as long as the +5 Volts is applied to Pin 1. That same pin is has a 2k0 pull-down resistor R36 on the motherboard to Ground. It appears that a +5 Volt in the original tape deck arrangement feeds Pin 1 of P44 thru CR7 diode. This same +5 Volt signal is common to: The optional hour meter. Pin 2 of J35 on Motherboard "pinch roller command" Pin 1 of J3 on Motherboard "play left" Pin 6 of J33 on Motherboard "left motion play command" Pin 6 of J33 is fed by the signal called "Play Main" originating on the Control Logic Board and the signal comes from the play latch on the board. When I apply +5 volts to that common line, the motor starts and locks and stays running until I remove the 5 Volts. So far so good. There is a portion of the PLL circuitry that I have not yet been able to figure out. Since I don't understand the circuitry, I can't figure out if I need or should apply some kind of signal to it. Pin 6 and 7 of J61 on the PLL card is labeled "ACC COMMAND" C3, R11 connect from that line to the input of IC4 which supplies the variable voltage to the NE555 VCO. R10 and R9 are connected to the junction of CR4, CR15, and C2. The signal from Pin 7 is strapped to pin 8 of J61 by means of a tiny loop on the P61 motor drive connector. It is routed to the motherboard by means of P47 pin 12 which is labeled "FWD PLAY ACC" Pin 11 of P47 from the Motherboard labeled "REVERSE PLAY ACC" is routed on the PLL board to pin 5 of J61 where it is jumpered to ground by Pin 4 on the standard P61 motor connector. The "Forward Play ACC" and "Reverse Play ACC" signals are routed on the Motherboard from J47 pins 12 and 11 respectively to motherboard J10 Pins 2 and 3. (There is, by the way a drafting error on the motherboard SC25E0850-01 schematic in that the Forward and Rev lines are swapped between J47 and J10) P10 apparently feeds IC22 Play ACCel Diff Amp on the Analog Torque board. With the Reverse ACC signal grounded on the motor connector, it seems that this amplifier will receive whatever is put out on the "Forward Play ACC" line. If my analysis is correct, the "ACC command" originating on pin J61 pins 6 and 7 on the PLL board is a signal from the PLL board to the Analog Torque Board to tell the Analog Torque board that the Capstan is accelorating. I presume that this puts an extra "kick" on the torque motors to get them going. If the signal "ACC command" is an outgoing signal, then for the purposes of my adaptation, I can ignore it. Thanks again, Steve Hogan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1039 From: "stellavoy" Date: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:25 am Subject: Re: MCI JH-110 Series??? stellavoy Offline Send Email Mr Blake, How do I determine what series machine I have? Right now the problem appears to be in the power supply chassis. Can I get a schematic/parts layout of that to start? Don't want to take up chat room space - can EMail me @ Stellavox@... THANKS Charles King Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1040 From: "sansone3936" Date: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:51 pm Subject: HELP with an APR-5002! sansone3936 Offline Send Email Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I recently bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low and behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the cover off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right in the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! I don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part number or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for one. I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1041 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:45 pm Subject: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! ladewd Offline Send Email That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you need the Sony part number its in there. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" wrote: > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I recently > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low and > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the cover > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right in > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! I > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part number > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for one. > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1042 From: Jim Date: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:53 am Subject: adverts allowed? analogb@... Send Email Greetings, Is it permissible to post MCI/Sony JH series parts for sale or trade on this list? Thanks! Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1043 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:44 pm Subject: RE: adverts allowed? a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi, Jim -- > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Sent: October 13, 2006 11:54 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] adverts allowed? > > Greetings, > > Is it permissible to post MCI/Sony JH series parts for sale > or trade on > this list? Thanks! > > Regards, Jim > www.analogbros.com I'm moderating this list while Richard Hess is on the road. He'll probably be back some time over this coming weekend. Anyway, as long as I'm moderating, I see no problem with your offering -- in particular that what you are selling ("MCI/Sony JH series parts") is relevant to this group's interests. I'm pretty sure Richard would agree. Best, -- Steve =================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services http://www.sonicraft.com =================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1044 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:02 pm Subject: MCI JH110C PLL Board changed tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email This question is re: the MCI 110 series PLL Boards. I am working on the latest (1033) board. The tachometer jitter (TP1) is a bit more than I expected and I am checking out the signal path. The motor is occasionally fails to lock at 30 ips fixed. When it does locks it sometimes oscillates a little and then settles in. Reminiscent of overshoot or perhaps a bit of overall loop instability especially in the the Active filter section. Switching to VCO and turning the speed to the low side of 30 ips gets it to lock and then it will stay locked as I run the speed up to max. Gain is set to 30/70 duty cycle as specified. Reference waveforms and output of the VCO (TP2) are rock solid and exactly as expected. The manuals for the JH 110 Series have a chart describing the pulses generated by IC 7 (74123 dual one shot) on the PLL board as being 0.2usec long. My later revision board (SC25E1033 Rev B) generates pulses over 1uSec (about 7 times longer). Comparing schematics, it appears that this is intentional due to the timing capacitors on the newest rev board being 330 pF and the original values being 47 pF. (about 7x bigger). Another change on the latest board was the addition of R44 22k inside the feedback loop of the Active Filter. The earlier filters had a direct path for high frequencies thru C28, but with the addition of R44 there will be a huge time constant delay (10.5k x .01uF C28. Any comments on the reasoning behind the changes in the newer circuitry would really save me a lot of analysis and would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Steve Hogan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1045 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! richardlhess Offline Send Email I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts machines from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the goal of taking the machines down to their component parts to save storage space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like this. Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a machine was parted out there were other reasons. Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU version? I have a funny feeling about that. Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I may be able to get you one. Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? when you power it up? Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the TIB were missing? Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 as I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. Cheers, Richard At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you >need the Sony part number its in there. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" wrote: > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I recently > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low and > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the cover > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right in > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! I > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part number > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for one. > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1046 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:55 pm Subject: RE: adverts allowed? richardlhess Offline Send Email I agree -- just as long as it's not a daily laundry list . Cheers, Richard At 12:44 PM 10/13/2006, Steve Puntolillo wrote: >Hi, Jim -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Sent: October 13, 2006 11:54 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] adverts allowed? > > > > Greetings, > > > > Is it permissible to post MCI/Sony JH series parts for sale > > or trade on > > this list? Thanks! > > > > Regards, Jim > > www.analogbros.com > >I'm moderating this list while Richard Hess is on the road. He'll >probably be back some time over this coming weekend. > >Anyway, as long as I'm moderating, I see no problem with your offering >-- in particular that what you are selling ("MCI/Sony JH series parts") >is relevant to this group's interests. > >I'm pretty sure Richard would agree. > >Best, > >-- Steve > >=================================================== >Steve Puntolillo >Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services >http://www.sonicraft.com >=================================================== > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1047 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:05 am Subject: RE: MCI JH110C PLL Board changed ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email It might be good to remember that the PLL board was used (sometimes with some slightly different parts values in everything from video layback machines through 1/4", 1/2", 1", and 2" machines over many years of production. There are so many versions/revisions of the PLL board they are hard to keep track of. Cary or more likely Steve S. may have a better take on that than I. I have in my possession at least 4 different PLL boards..... but except for a gentleman that I assisted with a very, very early version, most of them work 'fairly' well in place of one another. Cary, Steve? I know the differences.... but on a BASIC functional' level the interchangable level most seemed to work in most conditions. \ Whatyathink> ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hogan Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:02 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] MCI JH110C PLL Board changed This question is re: the MCI 110 series PLL Boards. I am working on the latest (1033) board. The tachometer jitter (TP1) is a bit more than I expected and I am checking out the signal path. The motor is occasionally fails to lock at 30 ips fixed. When it does locks it sometimes oscillates a little and then settles in. Reminiscent of overshoot or perhaps a bit of overall loop instability especially in the the Active filter section. Switching to VCO and turning the speed to the low side of 30 ips gets it to lock and then it will stay locked as I run the speed up to max. Gain is set to 30/70 duty cycle as specified. Reference waveforms and output of the VCO (TP2) are rock solid and exactly as expected. The manuals for the JH 110 Series have a chart describing the pulses generated by IC 7 (74123 dual one shot) on the PLL board as being 0.2usec long. My later revision board (SC25E1033 Rev B) generates pulses over 1uSec (about 7 times longer). Comparing schematics, it appears that this is intentional due to the timing capacitors on the newest rev board being 330 pF and the original values being 47 pF. (about 7x bigger). Another change on the latest board was the addition of R44 22k inside the feedback loop of the Active Filter. The earlier filters had a direct path for high frequencies thru C28, but with the addition of R44 there will be a huge time constant delay (10.5k x .01uF C28. Any comments on the reasoning behind the changes in the newer circuitry would really save me a lot of analysis and would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Steve Hogan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1048 From: "j sans" Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! sansone3936 Offline Send Email Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a holddown for a roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I think, then the stop button on the transport just blinks. The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff >From: "Richard L. Hess" >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts machines >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the goal >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save storage >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like this. > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I >may be able to get you one. > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? when >you power it up? > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the TIB >were missing? > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 as >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" wrote: > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I recently > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low and > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the cover > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right in > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! I > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part number > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for one. > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.win\ dowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1049 From: Jim Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:59 pm Subject: RE: adverts allowed? analogb@... Send Email Richard, Thank you. It will be only a single post, and I'll ask for all replies to be personal, off list only. Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com At 10:55 PM 10/14/2006, you wrote: >I agree -- just as long as it's not a daily laundry list . > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 12:44 PM 10/13/2006, Steve Puntolillo wrote: > >Hi, Jim -- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > Sent: October 13, 2006 11:54 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] adverts allowed? > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Is it permissible to post MCI/Sony JH series parts for sale > > > or trade on > > > this list? Thanks! > > > > > > Regards, Jim > > > www.analogbros.com > > > >I'm moderating this list while Richard Hess is on the road. He'll > >probably be back some time over this coming weekend. > > > >Anyway, as long as I'm moderating, I see no problem with your offering > >-- in particular that what you are selling ("MCI/Sony JH series parts") > >is relevant to this group's interests. > > > >I'm pretty sure Richard would agree. > > > >Best, > > > >-- Steve > > > >=================================================== > >Steve Puntolillo > >Sonicraft Inc. - Analog and Digital Audio Services > >http://www.sonicraft.com > >=================================================== > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1050 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! richardlhess Offline Send Email The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. Cheers, Richard At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a holddown for a >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I think, >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts machines > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the goal > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save storage > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like this. > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > >may be able to get you one. > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? when > >you power it up? > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the TIB > >were missing? > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 as > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > >Cary > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" wrote: > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I recently > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low and > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the cover > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right in > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! I > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part number > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for one. > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.wi\ ndowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1051 From: "j sans" Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! sansone3936 Offline Send Email This machine is configured for 1/2 inch, the rollers themselves are one piece, so is the tach. I am missing one holdown cap and the spacer that goes in between the roller and the cap (its a about 1/8 inch thick and the diameter of the roller cap). It looks as thought the cap for the tach and the large roller are the same part, as I have tried one on the other. I am also missing the same vertical spacer, but for the smaller roller guide after the capstan(I have the cap for that one). With out the spacer, the guide kind of floats up and down. Those parts would make this a complete deck - an me a happy geek. ---Jeff >From: "Richard L. Hess" >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:14 -0400 > >The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers >one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect >two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that >comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > > > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a holddown >for a > >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > > > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I >think, > >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > > > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > > > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts machines > > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the goal > > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save storage > > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like this. > > > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > > >may be able to get you one. > > > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? when > > >you power it up? > > > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the TIB > > >were missing? > > > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 as > > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Richard > > > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the > > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking > > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. > > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you > > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > > > >Cary > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I >recently > > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low >and > > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the >cover > > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right >in > > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! > I > > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part >number > > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for >one. > > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > >Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.wi\ ndowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx Reply | Messages in this Topic (10) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1052 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! richardlhess Offline Send Email I won't be able to help you with the plate, but I probably have the spare roller parts that you need. As I understand it, you need the large plate and cap and the small roller assembly (but have the plate and cap). What I could do is provide a 1/4" cup and let you have a machinist trim it down to match the existing plate. That's how I got my set -- I had John French do it. Great guy. I'll try and look for these parts, including a TIB for you. Problem is, do you want to buy the TIB tested or untested. Testing it would take a while, I fear. I still don't know if there are any versioning issues with the TIB vs the CPU. Cheers, Richard At 05:49 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: >This machine is configured for 1/2 inch, the rollers themselves are one >piece, so is the tach. I am missing one holdown cap and the spacer that >goes in between the roller and the cap (its a about 1/8 inch thick and the >diameter of the roller cap). It looks as thought the cap for the tach and >the large roller are the same part, as I have tried one on the other. I am >also missing the same vertical spacer, but for the smaller roller guide >after the capstan(I have the cap for that one). With out the spacer, the >guide kind of floats up and down. Those parts would make this a complete >deck - an me a happy geek. > >---Jeff > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:14 -0400 > > > >The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers > >one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect > >two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that > >comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > >At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > > > > > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a holddown > >for a > > >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > > > > > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I > >think, > > >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > > > > > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > > > > > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > > > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts machines > > > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the goal > > > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save storage > > > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like this. > > > > > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > > > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > > > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > > > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > > > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > > > >may be able to get you one. > > > > > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? when > > > >you power it up? > > > > > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the TIB > > > >were missing? > > > > > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 as > > > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > > > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having the > > > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're looking > > > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out anymore. > > > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If you > > > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > > > > > >Cary > > > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I > >recently > > > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but low > >and > > > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the > >cover > > > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing right > >in > > > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. I > > > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. HELP! > > I > > > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or part > > > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part > >number > > > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look for > >one. > > > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > >Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day > >trial! > > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href > =http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Use your PC to make calls at very low rates >https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1053 From: "j sans" Date: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:24 pm Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! sansone3936 Offline Send Email Actually, I am missing one large plate, one large cap, and one small plate. --That should make it clear. As for the TIB. You see this comming-... What is a while on testing? Depending on the cost, I would take a gamble with a close vintage part just to see the wheels turn. I really don't know as to the CPU version issue, this deck has more IC's than deck I've ever seen- and we're only on our second date. Is there a way to check software version? Probably. (If in the manual, let me know). Thanks again. --Jeff >From: "Richard L. Hess" >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:39:33 -0400 > >I won't be able to help you with the plate, but I probably have the >spare roller parts that you need. As I understand it, you need the >large plate and cap and the small roller assembly (but have the plate and >cap). > >What I could do is provide a 1/4" cup and let you have a machinist >trim it down to match the existing plate. That's how I got my set -- >I had John French do it. Great guy. > >I'll try and look for these parts, including a TIB for you. Problem >is, do you want to buy the TIB tested or untested. Testing it would >take a while, I fear. > >I still don't know if there are any versioning issues with the TIB vs the >CPU. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 05:49 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > >This machine is configured for 1/2 inch, the rollers themselves are one > >piece, so is the tach. I am missing one holdown cap and the spacer that > >goes in between the roller and the cap (its a about 1/8 inch thick and >the > >diameter of the roller cap). It looks as thought the cap for the tach and > >the large roller are the same part, as I have tried one on the other. I >am > >also missing the same vertical spacer, but for the smaller roller guide > >after the capstan(I have the cap for that one). With out the spacer, the > >guide kind of floats up and down. Those parts would make this a complete > >deck - an me a happy geek. > > > >---Jeff > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:14 -0400 > > > > > >The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers > > >one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect > > >two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that > > >comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Richard > > > > > >At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > > >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > > > > > > > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a >holddown > > >for a > > > >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > > > > > > > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I > > >think, > > > >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > > > > > > > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > > > > > > > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts >machines > > > > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the >goal > > > > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save >storage > > > > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like >this. > > > > > > > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > > > > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > > > > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > > > > > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > > > > >may be able to get you one. > > > > > > > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? >when > > > > >you power it up? > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the >TIB > > > > >were missing? > > > > > > > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 >as > > > > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > > > > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > > > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having >the > > > > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're >looking > > > > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out >anymore. > > > > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If >you > > > > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I > > >recently > > > > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but >low > > >and > > > > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the > > >cover > > > > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing >right > > >in > > > > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. > I > > > > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. >HELP! > > > I > > > > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or >part > > > > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part > > >number > > > > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look >for > > >one. > > > > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > >Detailed contact information: > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day > > >trial! > > > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href > > =http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > >Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Use your PC to make calls at very low rates > >https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1054 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:33 pm Subject: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! ladewd Offline Send Email No issue with the version TIB as far as software is concerned. I can't remember if there was a mod to the TIB in early machines to accomodate 1/2" tape. I say try it anyway. The reason why your machine doesn't initialize properly is probably because there's no TIB there. The CPU polls all the boards to make sure they're working before applying tension to the tape. There are some tweaks on the TIB though. Mainly the vari-speed clock frequency. You'll need a frequency counter and it involves moving some jumpers on the TIB and entering test mode. Its all in the manual. Steve wrote the tech bulletin for the 1/2" upgrade, so maybe he remembers. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "j sans" wrote: > > Actually, I am missing one large plate, one large cap, and one small plate. > --That should make it clear. > As for the TIB. You see this comming-... What is a while on testing? > Depending on the cost, I would take a gamble with a close vintage part just > to see the wheels turn. I really don't know as to the CPU version issue, > this deck has more IC's than deck I've ever seen- and we're only on our > second date. Is there a way to check software version? Probably. (If in the > manual, let me know). Thanks again. > > --Jeff > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:39:33 -0400 > > > >I won't be able to help you with the plate, but I probably have the > >spare roller parts that you need. As I understand it, you need the > >large plate and cap and the small roller assembly (but have the plate and > >cap). > > > >What I could do is provide a 1/4" cup and let you have a machinist > >trim it down to match the existing plate. That's how I got my set -- > >I had John French do it. Great guy. > > > >I'll try and look for these parts, including a TIB for you. Problem > >is, do you want to buy the TIB tested or untested. Testing it would > >take a while, I fear. > > > >I still don't know if there are any versioning issues with the TIB vs the > >CPU. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > >At 05:49 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > > > >This machine is configured for 1/2 inch, the rollers themselves are one > > >piece, so is the tach. I am missing one holdown cap and the spacer that > > >goes in between the roller and the cap (its a about 1/8 inch thick and > >the > > >diameter of the roller cap). It looks as thought the cap for the tach and > > >the large roller are the same part, as I have tried one on the other. I > >am > > >also missing the same vertical spacer, but for the smaller roller guide > > >after the capstan(I have the cap for that one). With out the spacer, the > > >guide kind of floats up and down. Those parts would make this a complete > > >deck - an me a happy geek. > > > > > >---Jeff > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:14 -0400 > > > > > > > >The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers > > > >one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect > > > >two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that > > > >comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > >At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > > > >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > > > > > > > > > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a > >holddown > > > >for a > > > > >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > > > > > > > > > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I > > > >think, > > > > >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > > > > > > > > > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > > > > > > > > > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts > >machines > > > > > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the > >goal > > > > > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save > >storage > > > > > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like > >this. > > > > > > > > > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > > > > > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > > > > > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > > > > > > > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > > > > > >may be able to get you one. > > > > > > > > > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? > >when > > > > > >you power it up? > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the > >TIB > > > > > >were missing? > > > > > > > > > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 > >as > > > > > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > > > > > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > > > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having > >the > > > > > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're > >looking > > > > > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out > >anymore. > > > > > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If > >you > > > > > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I > > > >recently > > > > > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but > >low > > > >and > > > > > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the > > > >cover > > > > > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing > >right > > > >in > > > > > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. > > I > > > > > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. > >HELP! > > > > I > > > > > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or > >part > > > > > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part > > > >number > > > > > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look > >for > > > >one. > > > > > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > >Detailed contact information: > > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day > > > >trial! > > > > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href > > > =http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > >Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Use your PC to make calls at very low rates > > >https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1055 From: "adamacr1" Date: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:34 am Subject: APR24 Transport Problem adamacr1 Offline Send Email Greetings APR Gurus, I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. I've been lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a problem with the transport. It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to discover that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be working, and none of the transport controls function. If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned or corroded parts on the circuit boards. I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing bare wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - I did find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/), but that doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with repairs. No doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and this list (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard gear) but since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 manual would be a big help too. After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would be, and what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for repairs. Any suggestions? Thanks! Adam Cooke Baltimore, MD Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1056 From: mcijh@... Date: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:07 am Subject: Re: Re: HELP with an APR-5002! bae_steve Offline Send Email The TIB is the same on all machines. SS -----Original Message----- From: ladewd@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 9:33 PM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! No issue with the version TIB as far as software is concerned. I can't remember if there was a mod to the TIB in early machines to accomodate 1/2" tape. I say try it anyway. The reason why your machine doesn't initialize properly is probably because there's no TIB there. The CPU polls all the boards to make sure they're working before applying tension to the tape. There are some tweaks on the TIB though. Mainly the vari-speed clock frequency. You'll need a frequency counter and it involves moving some jumpers on the TIB and entering test mode. Its all in the manual. Steve wrote the tech bulletin for the 1/2" upgrade, so maybe he remembers. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "j sans" wrote: > > Actually, I am missing one large plate, one large cap, and one small plate. > --That should make it clear. > As for the TIB. You see this comming-... What is a while on testing? > Depending on the cost, I would take a gamble with a close vintage part just > to see the wheels turn. I really don't know as to the CPU version issue, > this deck has more IC's than deck I've ever seen- and we're only on our > second date. Is there a way to check software version? Probably. (If in the > manual, let me know). Thanks again. > > --Jeff > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:39:33 -0400 > > > >I won't be able to help you with the plate, but I probably have the > >spare roller parts that you need. As I understand it, you need the > >large plate and cap and the small roller assembly (but have the plate and > >cap). > > > >What I could do is provide a 1/4" cup and let you have a machinist > >trim it down to match the existing plate. That's how I got my set -- > >I had John French do it. Great guy. > > > >I'll try and look for these parts, including a TIB for you. Problem > >is, do you want to buy the TIB tested or untested. Testing it would > >take a while, I fear. > > > >I still don't know if there are any versioning issues with the TIB vs the > >CPU. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Richard > > > >At 05:49 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > > > >This machine is configured for 1/2 inch, the rollers themselves are one > > >piece, so is the tach. I am missing one holdown cap and the spacer that > > >goes in between the roller and the cap (its a about 1/8 inch thick and > >the > > >diameter of the roller cap). It looks as thought the cap for the tach and > > >the large roller are the same part, as I have tried one on the other. I > >am > > >also missing the same vertical spacer, but for the smaller roller guide > > >after the capstan(I have the cap for that one). With out the spacer, the > > >guide kind of floats up and down. Those parts would make this a complete > > >deck - an me a happy geek. > > > > > >---Jeff > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:28:14 -0400 > > > > > > > >The roller cap that's missing -- which one? Also, are your rollers > > > >one-piece or two-piece? With that serial number, I would suspect > > > >two-piece--in other words, the top guide is an inverted cup that > > > >comes off so you can use it for 1/2" tape as well. > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > >At 02:00 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: > > > > >Thanks for all your help guys! Here's what I know: > > > > > > > > > >The TIB board appears to be the only thing missing (besides a > >holddown > > > >for a > > > > >roller). I will have a chance to compare it to the manual tonight. > > > > > > > > > >The machine goes through a count on power up. It gets to 5, or 6 I > > > >think, > > > > >then the stop button on the transport just blinks. > > > > > > > > > >The modle number of the deck is 5002H. Serial 20539. Build 87C. > > > > > > > > > >I cant thank you enough. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Richard L. Hess" > > > > > >Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: HELP with an APR-5002! > > > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:00:52 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >I just moved (well, my handyman just moved) a bunch of parts > >machines > > > > > >from inaccessible storage to partly accessible storage with the > >goal > > > > > >of taking the machines down to their component parts to save > >storage > > > > > >space and to make the parts more quickly available for cases like > >this. > > > > > > > > > > > >Are you sure that the TIB is the only missing board? Often when a > > > > > >machine was parted out there were other reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Do we need to have the TIB version in sync with the CPU > > > > > >version? I have a funny feeling about that. > > > > > > > > > > > >Jeff: If you have patience and I understand the parameters better I > > > > > >may be able to get you one. > > > > > > > > > > > >Does the CPU display light up and go through its count or ? ? ? > >when > > > > > >you power it up? > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary: Would the CPU go through its POST sequence or stall if the > >TIB > > > > > >were missing? > > > > > > > > > > > >Jeff, I'd like to know the serial and build date code of your 5002 > >as > > > > > >I may be able to get close to that era as I have a wide range of > > > > > >hanger queens--more than working machines it turns out. > > > > > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:45 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >That would be the TIB board. Transport Interface Board. Having > >the > > > > > > >part number won't do you much good, but knowing what you're > >looking > > > > > > >for is half the battle. Sony won't be able to help you out > >anymore. > > > > > > >There is a manual somewhere here on the board to download. If > >you > > > > > > >need the Sony part number its in there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "sansone3936" > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! I've got an APR-5002 that is missing some parts. I > > > >recently > > > > > > > > bought this deck as a back up for another Otari machine, but > >low > > > >and > > > > > > > > behold - this beck is missing something important. I took the > > > >cover > > > > > > > > off between the reels, and there is obviously a PCB missing > >right > > > >in > > > > > > > > the middle. There are about 20 connectors just hanging loose. > > I > > > > > > > > traced some of them back to the motors and other componets. > >HELP! > > > > I > > > > > > > > don't have a manual yet, so I don't even know what board or > >part > > > > > > > > number to look for a replacement. Does anybody know the part > > > >number > > > > > > > > or mabye even have a spare/parts machine/ somewhere to look > >for > > > >one. > > > > > > > > I am humbly in need of you help. ---Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > > >Detailed contact information: > > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > > >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day > > > >trial! > > > > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href > > > =http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > >Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > >Use your PC to make calls at very low rates > > >https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1057 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:18 pm Subject: RE: APR24 Transport Problem ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot there, and I haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd be happy to do some select portions for you if you can narrow your targets a bit.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of adamacr1 Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem Greetings APR Gurus, I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. I've been lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a problem with the transport. It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to discover that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be working, and none of the transport controls function. If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned or corroded parts on the circuit boards. I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing bare wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - I did find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ ), but that doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with repairs. No doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and this list (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard gear) but since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 manual would be a big help too. After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would be, and what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for repairs. Any suggestions? Thanks! Adam Cooke Baltimore, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1058 From: "jooshtin" Date: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:10 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem jooshtin Offline Send Email At long last I've had time to check over my apr and carry out some fixes - huge thanks to the group for your kind help and advice. It worked great for about 30 minutes then it lost some of the bias adjustment on both channels. The maximin overbias adjustment I can get for both channels is now 2dB. I had replaced the blown caps on the mst & cnl boards and put in a new LM13600N on cnl channel 1. The + & - 15 and 18 volt supplys are stable and seem to check out ok. Before I start testing it again I'd be grateful for any thoughts the group might have on the problem. All the very best, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > That's one of the main reasons I left Sony. They would send me out on > a field call and never have the parts available for me to fix the > machines. This wasn't only the APR series, but all audio products. > Fortunately, the APR CNL and MST cards use off-the-shelf parts. You > shouldn't have too much trouble finding the transistors and other > parts you'll need to fix it. You'll only run into a jam if you need > the i/o hybrids they used in the non-surface mount cards. The surface > mount cards use SSM chips which you can still get from Analog Devices, > which is fortunate, since they seem to blow quite often. > > BTW, an oscilloscope would be a necessity to troubleshoot bias and > erase problems. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an > encouraging chat with one of > > their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to > say Sony don't supply > > spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even > look at it. So much for > > the UK Sony Professional service company! > > > > If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it > over I'd be grateful. In > > the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Justin > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR > > > series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never existed. > > > I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding Sony techs > > > that remember these machines. > > > > > > Good Luck with it. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the > > > face of it it seems only > > > > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear > > > Technology who were the > > > > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they > > > are checking availability > > > > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If > > > anything like this > > > > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to > anyone > > > > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to > > > re-adjust > > > > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the > > > exception > > > > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that > something more > > > > > serious is wrong... > > > > > > > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related > failures, I > > > > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > > > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio > Master Card. > > > > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, > perhaps > > > > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase > waveforms > > > > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel > > > cards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and > look > > > > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > > > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks > will get > > > > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which > insulates the > > > > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only > fix is to > > > > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the > Audio > > > > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course > install > > > > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card > #2. You > > > > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and > replace > > > > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or > > > it may > > > > > > smoke again. > > > > > > > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to > operate the > > > > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > > > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > , > > > > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack > of) bias > > > > > > adjustment on each > > > > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > , > > > > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > , "jooshtin" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the > level on > > > > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on > > > channel 1, > > > > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record > level in > > > > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level > > > drop stays > > > > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels > are no > > > > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom > > > left on the > > > > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some > test tones > > > > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it > > > off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel > > > 1 audio > > > > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the > machine. The > > > > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software > > > version > > > > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the > > > group can > > > > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1059 From: "adamacr1" Date: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:38 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem adamacr1 Offline Send Email Hi Scott, Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope to have a better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have chapters 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the problem seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that pertain to the transport control would be a huge help. Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time to look at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set aside some time for further troubleshooting soon. Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this problem is likely to be? Thanks, Adam Cooke --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot there, and I > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd be happy to > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your targets a bit.... > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of adamacr1 > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. I've been > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a problem with > the transport. > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to discover > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing bare > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - I did > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > ), but that > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with repairs. No > doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and this list > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of > experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard gear) but > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 > manual would be a big help too. > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would be, and > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for repairs. > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > Adam Cooke > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1060 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:14 am Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem ladewd Offline Send Email As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost a driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all things transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you can use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the possibility that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables during the storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD (mounted on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably OK. If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates to me that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would ohm them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition maybe your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids attempt to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what you've described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine won't go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional facts, I'll be glad to help out some more. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope to have a > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have chapters > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the problem > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that pertain > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time to look > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set aside some > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this problem is > likely to be? > > Thanks, > Adam Cooke > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot there, and I > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd be happy to > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your targets a bit.... > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. I've been > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a problem with > > the transport. > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to discover > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing bare > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - I did > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > ), but that > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with repairs. No > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and this list > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard gear) but > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would be, and > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for repairs. > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks! > > Adam Cooke > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1061 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:50 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem ladewd Offline Send Email You need to get a hold of an scope and check the actual bias and erase waveforms. There are adjustments on the MST card for the master bias and erase voltages. Set the bias per the manual, but keep the erase voltage as low as you can while still achieving adequate erase performance. This usually is about 12V p-p. You should see a nice sine wave on the output of the bias drivers on the CNL card. You can see these on the coax cable that runs the length of the card on the right side. One should be 100 kHz, that's erase and the other should be 400KHz, which is the bias. With these machines, when you lose bias level, its usually caused by either the drivers on the CNL cards distorting, or inadequate +/-15V from the MST card. If both cards are affected similarly, then look to the MST card for the source of your troubles. It is entirely possible that both the driver transistors on both CNL cards are bad if they have been run in a distortion mode for any length of time. The big clue here is that the transistors on the heatsinks on the CNL's usually run hot, when in record, but they run REAL hot when the bias or erase is distorting. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > At long last I've had time to check over my apr and carry out some fixes - huge thanks to > the group for your kind help and advice. It worked great for about 30 minutes then it lost > some of the bias adjustment on both channels. The maximin overbias adjustment I can get > for both channels is now 2dB. I had replaced the blown caps on the mst & cnl boards and > put in a new LM13600N on cnl channel 1. The + & - 15 and 18 volt supplys are stable and > seem to check out ok. Before I start testing it again I'd be grateful for any thoughts the > group might have on the problem. All the very best, Justin > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > That's one of the main reasons I left Sony. They would send me out on > > a field call and never have the parts available for me to fix the > > machines. This wasn't only the APR series, but all audio products. > > Fortunately, the APR CNL and MST cards use off-the-shelf parts. You > > shouldn't have too much trouble finding the transistors and other > > parts you'll need to fix it. You'll only run into a jam if you need > > the i/o hybrids they used in the non-surface mount cards. The surface > > mount cards use SSM chips which you can still get from Analog Devices, > > which is fortunate, since they seem to blow quite often. > > > > BTW, an oscilloscope would be a necessity to troubleshoot bias and > > erase problems. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an > > encouraging chat with one of > > > their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to > > say Sony don't supply > > > spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even > > look at it. So much for > > > the UK Sony Professional service company! > > > > > > If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it > > over I'd be grateful. In > > > the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR > > > > series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never existed. > > > > I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding Sony techs > > > > that remember these machines. > > > > > > > > Good Luck with it. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - on the > > > > face of it it seems only > > > > > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that Thear > > > > Technology who were the > > > > > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from me, they > > > > are checking availability > > > > > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going over. If > > > > anything like this > > > > > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and carry! > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to > > anyone > > > > > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to > > > > re-adjust > > > > > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the > > > > exception > > > > > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that > > something more > > > > > > serious is wrong... > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related > > failures, I > > > > > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a manual and > > > > > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio > > Master Card. > > > > > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, > > perhaps > > > > > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase > > waveforms > > > > > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the channel > > > > cards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and > > look > > > > > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the card. What I > > > > > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks > > will get > > > > > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which > > insulates the > > > > > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only > > fix is to > > > > > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the > > Audio > > > > > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course > > install > > > > > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card > > #2. You > > > > > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and > > replace > > > > > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out again, or > > > > it may > > > > > > > smoke again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to > > operate the > > > > > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an indication > > > > > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more information > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > > > > > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack > > of) bias > > > > > > > adjustment on each > > > > > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > > > > > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > , "jooshtin" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the > > level on > > > > > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on > > > > channel 1, > > > > > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record > > level in > > > > > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level > > > > drop stays > > > > > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels > > are no > > > > > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom > > > > left on the > > > > > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some > > test tones > > > > > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I turned it > > > > off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the channel > > > > 1 audio > > > > > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the > > machine. The > > > > > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. Software > > > > version > > > > > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any advice the > > > > group can > > > > > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1062 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:27 pm Subject: 5003V Bias Problem ladewd Offline Send Email Justin, Check the +/-15v rails when the unit is in record. Don't leave it in record to long in case the bias is distorting. I'd say 10 seconds or so. Make sure you don't see the rails drop when in record. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1063 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:48 am Subject: Steve Sadler has left the list richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, All, Just a note that Steve Sadler has left the list. Remember, he is a resource for help on your MCI/Sony tape machines for his $100 annual fee for telephone/email support. He may be reached at mcijh@... He will not do free support. I'm not quite sure why he unsubscribed as I had just suggested to him that he send ONE off-list email advertising his service to people with questions he thinks he could help. I would be curious if anyone had signed up for his service and what the results were like. I'm debating as to whether to list him as a fee-based resource on my Web pages. I would like some third-party feedback prior to doing that. I wish Steve well. I don't envy the position that he's in with well-funded demands for his services diminishing as analog becomes more and more of a niche market. I hope you all join me in wishing Steve continued success in his repair/consulting work. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1064 From: "jooshtin" Date: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:11 am Subject: Re: 5003V Bias Problem jooshtin Offline Send Email Cheers, the +/-15v rails dont drop in record. After a few more tests and tweaks I'm back to just the bias on cnl card for channel 1 being at fault (max of 2dB overbias). I need to get myself an oscilloscope... Thanks again and I'll keep you posted, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Justin, > > Check the +/-15v rails when the unit is in record. Don't leave it in > record to long in case the bias is distorting. I'd say 10 seconds or > so. Make sure you don't see the rails drop when in record. > > Cary > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1065 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:39 am Subject: Re: Steve Sadler has left the list ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, Its a bummer Steve left, but I think I understand why. As far as his service goes, I hear good things about it. He and I spent 8 hours a day for many years on the phone with customers with MCI/APR machines. We talked people who didn't know how to use a voltmeter through some pretty complex troubleshooting. If I wasn't well versed in the repair of these machines, I would subscribe to his service in a minute. That said, I occasionally fire up my APR just to make sure it still works. Not many of us are using tape like we used to. The care and feeding of these machines is slowly becoming a lost art. I highly recommend that you list Steve as a valuable resource to all MCI and Sony product owners. ...just my $.02. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello, All, > > Just a note that Steve Sadler has left the list. > > Remember, he is a resource for help on your MCI/Sony tape machines > for his $100 annual fee for telephone/email support. > > He may be reached at mcijh@... > > He will not do free support. > > I'm not quite sure why he unsubscribed as I had just suggested to him > that he send ONE off-list email advertising his service to people > with questions he thinks he could help. > > I would be curious if anyone had signed up for his service and what > the results were like. I'm debating as to whether to list him as a > fee-based resource on my Web pages. I would like some third-party > feedback prior to doing that. > > I wish Steve well. I don't envy the position that he's in with > well-funded demands for his services diminishing as analog becomes > more and more of a niche market. > > I hope you all join me in wishing Steve continued success in his > repair/consulting work. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1066 From: John McDaniel Date: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:56 am Subject: Re: Steve Sadler has left the list sonicartsson... Offline Send Email On Oct 29, 2006, at 11:48 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > Just a note that Steve Sadler has left the list. > > Remember, he is a resource for help on your MCI/Sony tape machines > for his $100 annual fee for telephone/email support. Would someone mind mentioning where Mr. Sadler lives/works, geographically speaking? Thanks, j mcd -- John McDaniel Sonic Arts -- Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1067 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:19 am Subject: Re: Steve Sadler has left the list richardlhess Offline Send Email I think he's in the Nashville area. At 09:56 AM 10/31/2006, you wrote: >On Oct 29, 2006, at 11:48 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Just a note that Steve Sadler has left the list. > > > > Remember, he is a resource for help on your MCI/Sony tape machines > > for his $100 annual fee for telephone/email support. > >Would someone mind mentioning where Mr. Sadler lives/works, >geographically speaking? > >Thanks, j mcd >-- >John McDaniel >Sonic Arts > >-- > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1068 From: "stellavoy" Date: Thu Nov 2, 2006 7:37 am Subject: How to adjust idle/offset pots on a JH-110B? stellavoy Offline Send Email After cleaning all the "red" IC sockets and other contacts, tape at idle rotates slowly backwards. Figured the above pots on the tension board have to be reset but don't have a manual yet. Any help appreciated! Charles Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1069 From: "rockitrecordings" Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 3:53 pm Subject: Hello all rockitrecord... Offline Send Email My name is Joshua Smith and I'm starting a studio in NW Indiana. I'm 24 years old, just had my first child on Oct 27th (Naiomi Mykaela Smith) and graduated from Greenville College with a Bachelors of Science in Contemporary Music w/Emphasis in recording. While at school found an old MCI JH110 1/4" 2-track in a corner and learned to use it and fix it. From there I fixed their MCI 24 track as well. I found a JH110 1/2" 4 track on ebay last week and bought it from some guy for $75. I haven't fully taken a look at the machine but $75 was a gamble that I'm totally willing to take. I was wondering if anyone has a manual for this machine? Or copies? Thanks! Joshua Smith comicbookjosh@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1070 From: "adamacr1" Date: Mon Nov 6, 2006 8:14 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem adamacr1 Offline Send Email Hi Cary, Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the brakes binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, but unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they were stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something else was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least when the machine decides to actuate them... Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at some point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily insulated that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why the APR24 isn't working properly anymore. I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its current symptoms: On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU tests 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go off). Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is bad... or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then drops out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot muster enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the time). Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, EOT sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle when stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After a while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on play. Brakes stay off. PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a bit longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the longer it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is on and the more it heats up. Thanks! Adam Cooke --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost a > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all things > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you can > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the possibility > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables during the > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD (mounted > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably OK. > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates to me > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would ohm > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition maybe > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids attempt > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what you've > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine won't > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional facts, > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope to have a > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have chapters > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the problem > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that pertain > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time to look > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set aside some > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this problem is > > likely to be? > > > > Thanks, > > Adam Cooke > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot there, and I > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd be > happy to > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your targets a > bit.... > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. I've been > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a problem with > > > the transport. > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to discover > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing bare > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - I did > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > ), but that > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with repairs. No > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and this list > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard gear) but > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would be, and > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for repairs. > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Adam Cooke > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1071 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Nov 8, 2006 8:05 am Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem ladewd Offline Send Email Adam, Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a rubber coating). You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT critical. Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make sure its mounted correctly. BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the brakes > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, but > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they were > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something else > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least when > the machine decides to actuate them... > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at some > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily insulated > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why the > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > current symptoms: > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU tests > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go off). > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is bad... > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then drops > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot muster > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the time). > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, EOT > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle when > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After a > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a bit > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the longer > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is on > and the more it heats up. > > Thanks! > > Adam Cooke > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost a > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all things > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you can > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the possibility > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables during the > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD (mounted > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably OK. > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates to me > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would ohm > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition maybe > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids attempt > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what you've > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine won't > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional facts, > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope to have a > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have chapters > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the problem > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that pertain > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time to look > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set aside some > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this problem is > > > likely to be? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot there, > and I > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd be > > happy to > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your targets a > > bit.... > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio that was > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > I've been > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while the tape > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new walls and > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done now so I > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > problem with > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed VERY > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > discover > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the takeup reel > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the supply reel > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber on the > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the fairly > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding replacement brakes > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now the > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to be > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it will slowly > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the idle > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of life from > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the CPU tests > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no obviously burned > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring exposing > bare > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a short > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden dirt and > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned out. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the manual - > I did > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's website > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > ), but that > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > repairs. No > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's machines! I > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > this list > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the APR24 for me > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot of > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler electronic > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > gear) but > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I could really > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the APR24 > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio built and > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much gone by > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't seem > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. Whatever > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > be, and > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to repair > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least figure out > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > repairs. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1072 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:21 am Subject: Re: Re: APR24 Transport Problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email Cary, I might need one of those EOT sensors. how much? eddie ciletti > Adam, > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > rubber coating). > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > critical. > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > sure its mounted correctly. > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > brakes > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > but > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > were > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > else > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > when > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > some > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > insulated > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > the > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > current symptoms: > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > tests > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > off). > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > bad... > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > drops > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > muster > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > time). > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > EOT > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > when > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > a > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > bit > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > longer > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > on > > and the more it heats up. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > a > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > things > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > can > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > possibility > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > during the > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > (mounted > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > OK. > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > to me > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > ohm > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > maybe > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > attempt > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > you've > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > won't > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > facts, > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > to have a > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > chapters > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > problem > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > pertain > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > to look > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > aside some > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > problem is > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , "Scott Phillips" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > there, > > and I > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > be > > > happy to > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > targets a > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > that was > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > I've been > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > the tape > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > walls and > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > now so I > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > problem with > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > VERY > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > discover > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > takeup reel > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > supply reel > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > on the > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > fairly > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > replacement brakes > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > the > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > be > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > will slowly > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > idle > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > life from > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > CPU tests > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > obviously burned > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > exposing > > bare > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > short > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > dirt and > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > out. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > manual - > > I did > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > website > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > ), > but that > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > repairs. No > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > machines! I > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > this list > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > APR24 for me > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > of > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > electronic > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > gear) but > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > could really > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > APR24 > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > built and > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > gone by > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > seem > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > Whatever > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > be, and > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > repair > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > figure out > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > repairs. > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1073 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:52 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Eddie, Hope all is well. Let me see how many of these things I have. You'll only have to pay the shipping. If I can find a few more lying around, one is marked for you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > Cary, > > I might need one of those EOT sensors. > > how much? > > eddie ciletti > > > > Adam, > > > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > > rubber coating). > > > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > > critical. > > > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > > sure its mounted correctly. > > > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > > brakes > > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > > but > > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > > were > > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > > else > > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > > when > > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > > some > > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > > insulated > > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > > the > > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > > current symptoms: > > > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > > tests > > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > > off). > > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > > bad... > > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > > drops > > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > > muster > > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > > time). > > > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > > EOT > > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > > when > > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > > a > > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > > bit > > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > > longer > > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > > on > > > and the more it heats up. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > > a > > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > > things > > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > > can > > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > > possibility > > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > > during the > > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > > (mounted > > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > > OK. > > > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > > to me > > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > > ohm > > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > > maybe > > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > > attempt > > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > > you've > > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > > won't > > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > > facts, > > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > > to have a > > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > > chapters > > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > > problem > > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > > pertain > > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > > to look > > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > > aside some > > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > > problem is > > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > > there, > > > and I > > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > > be > > > > happy to > > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > > targets a > > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > > that was > > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > > I've been > > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > > the tape > > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > > walls and > > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > > now so I > > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > > problem with > > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > > VERY > > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > > discover > > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > > takeup reel > > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > > supply reel > > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > > on the > > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > > fairly > > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > > replacement brakes > > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > > the > > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > > be > > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > > will slowly > > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > > idle > > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > > life from > > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > > CPU tests > > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > > obviously burned > > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > > exposing > > > bare > > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > > short > > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > > dirt and > > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > > manual - > > > I did > > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > > website > > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > > > > ), > > but that > > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > > repairs. No > > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > > machines! I > > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > > this list > > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > > APR24 for me > > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > > of > > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > > electronic > > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > > gear) but > > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > > could really > > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > > APR24 > > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > > built and > > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > > gone by > > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > > seem > > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > > Whatever > > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > > be, and > > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > > repair > > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > > figure out > > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > > repairs. > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1074 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:20 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem ladewd Offline Send Email Damn, I only found one. I'll keep on looking. At one time, I had about 5 or 6 of the EOT's. I'm not sure where I put all of them, I know I used a few. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > Cary, > > I might need one of those EOT sensors. > > how much? > > eddie ciletti > > > > Adam, > > > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > > rubber coating). > > > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > > critical. > > > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > > sure its mounted correctly. > > > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > > brakes > > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > > but > > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > > were > > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > > else > > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > > when > > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > > some > > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > > insulated > > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > > the > > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > > current symptoms: > > > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > > tests > > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > > off). > > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > > bad... > > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > > drops > > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > > muster > > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > > time). > > > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > > EOT > > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > > when > > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > > a > > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > > bit > > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > > longer > > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > > on > > > and the more it heats up. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > > a > > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > > things > > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > > can > > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > > possibility > > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > > during the > > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > > (mounted > > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > > OK. > > > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > > to me > > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > > ohm > > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > > maybe > > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > > attempt > > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > > you've > > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > > won't > > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > > facts, > > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > > to have a > > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > > chapters > > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > > problem > > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > > pertain > > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > > to look > > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > > aside some > > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > > problem is > > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > > there, > > > and I > > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > > be > > > > happy to > > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > > targets a > > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > > that was > > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > > I've been > > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > > the tape > > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > > walls and > > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > > now so I > > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > > problem with > > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > > VERY > > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > > discover > > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > > takeup reel > > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > > supply reel > > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > > on the > > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > > fairly > > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > > replacement brakes > > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > > the > > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > > be > > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > > will slowly > > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > > idle > > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > > life from > > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > > CPU tests > > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > > obviously burned > > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > > exposing > > > bare > > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > > short > > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > > dirt and > > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > > manual - > > > I did > > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > > website > > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > > > > ), > > but that > > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > > repairs. No > > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > > machines! I > > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > > this list > > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > > APR24 for me > > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > > of > > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > > electronic > > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > > gear) but > > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > > could really > > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > > APR24 > > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > > built and > > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > > gone by > > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > > seem > > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > > Whatever > > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > > be, and > > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > > repair > > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > > figure out > > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > > repairs. > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1075 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR24 Transport Problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks . I'm happy to pay / contribute / donate... ec > > Hey Eddie, > > Hope all is well. Let me see how many of these things I have. > You'll only have to pay the shipping. If I can find a few more > lying around, one is marked for you. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > Cary, > > > > I might need one of those EOT sensors. > > > > how much? > > > > eddie ciletti > > > > > > > Adam, > > > > > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > > > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > > > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the > reel > > > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > > > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has > a > > > rubber coating). > > > > > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach > signals > > > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the > tach > > > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked > where > > > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from > each > > > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they > should > > > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > > > critical. > > > > > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > > > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > > > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > > > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the > reel > > > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close > to > > > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and > this > > > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and > make > > > sure its mounted correctly. > > > > > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 > lying > > > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > > > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > > > > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > > > brakes > > > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come > free, > > > but > > > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > > > were > > > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > > > else > > > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > > > when > > > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis > at > > > some > > > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > > > insulated > > > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason > why > > > the > > > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are > its > > > > current symptoms: > > > > > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > > > tests > > > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop > button is > > > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes > go > > > off). > > > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does > exactly the > > > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. > Plays & > > > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything > else > > > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > > > bad... > > > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no > longer > > > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > > > drops > > > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. > It > > > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > > > muster > > > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the > reels > > > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all > the > > > time). > > > > > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop > tension, > > > EOT > > > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > > > when > > > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. > After > > > a > > > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second > on > > > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates > for a > > > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during > play/wind. > > > > > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes > removed), it > > > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for > a > > > bit > > > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > > > longer > > > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the > power > > > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine > is > > > on > > > > and the more it heats up. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you > lost > > > a > > > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > > > things > > > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so > you > > > can > > > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > > > possibility > > > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > > > during the > > > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > > > (mounted > > > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is > probably > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in > opposite > > > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > > > to me > > > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep > them > > > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I > would > > > ohm > > > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In > addition > > > maybe > > > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > > > attempt > > > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > > > you've > > > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the > machine > > > won't > > > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > > > facts, > > > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "adamacr1" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I > hope > > > to have a > > > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already > have > > > chapters > > > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block > diagrams, > > > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > > > problem > > > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages > that > > > pertain > > > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much > time > > > to look > > > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > > > aside some > > > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > > > problem is > > > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "Scott Phillips" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > > > there, > > > > and I > > > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. > I'd > > > be > > > > > happy to > > > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > > > targets a > > > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my > studio > > > that was > > > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine > then. > > > > I've been > > > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group > while > > > the tape > > > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and > new > > > walls and > > > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly > done > > > now so I > > > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > > > problem with > > > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but > seemed > > > VERY > > > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top > cover to > > > > discover > > > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > > > takeup reel > > > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > > > supply reel > > > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the > rubber > > > on the > > > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix > the > > > fairly > > > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > > > replacement brakes > > > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but > now > > > the > > > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem > to > > > be > > > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > > > will slowly > > > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be > the > > > idle > > > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > > > life from > > > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > > > CPU tests > > > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > > > obviously burned > > > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > > > exposing > > > > bare > > > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - > maybe a > > > short > > > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > > > dirt and > > > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since > cleaned > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > > > manual - > > > > I did > > > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on > Berklee's > > > website > > > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ), > > > but that > > > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > > > repairs. No > > > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > > > machines! I > > > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard > and > > > > this list > > > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > > > APR24 for me > > > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a > lot > > > of > > > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > > > electronic > > > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various > outboard > > > > gear) but > > > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > > > could really > > > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of > the > > > APR24 > > > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > > > built and > > > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty > much > > > gone by > > > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine > doesn't > > > seem > > > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR > rolling. > > > Whatever > > > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem > would > > > > be, and > > > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd > like to > > > repair > > > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > > > figure out > > > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech > for > > > > repairs. > > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1076 From: "adamacr1" Date: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:20 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem adamacr1 Offline Send Email Hi Cary, Thanks so much for helping! The EOT sensor is definitely dead - so if you do have one to spare, I'd be very grateful to get it. How much would that cost, for shipping, packaging and/or your inconvenience? How should I get that money to you? I checked the reel tachs, and the takeup side WAS a bit out of position, so I repositioned it. The machine is now consistently playing and winding normally for about 10 or 15 minutes when it's first powered up (except for the EOT not working). Unfortunately, still, after the machine has been on for a while, it stops working. With no buttons pushed the reel motors are "twitching", without really moving much in either direction. According to my oscilloscope, the TIB is sending quick little voltage pulses to the RMD. When I push any transport button, the machine tries to follow the command, but stops immediately. For example, when I push FF or RW, the tape lifter solenoid actuates for a fraction of a second, then drops out. When I press PLAY the pinch roller does the same thing. When I push STOP the reels go to idle tension instead of twitching. Do you think the TIB has a marginal component that fails once it warms up? Thanks, Adam --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Adam, > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > rubber coating). > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > critical. > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > sure its mounted correctly. > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > brakes > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > but > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > were > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > else > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > when > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > some > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > insulated > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > the > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > current symptoms: > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > tests > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > off). > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > bad... > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > drops > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > muster > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > time). > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > EOT > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > when > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > a > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > bit > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > longer > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > on > > and the more it heats up. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > a > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > things > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > can > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > possibility > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > during the > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > (mounted > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > OK. > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > to me > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > ohm > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > maybe > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > attempt > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > you've > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > won't > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > facts, > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > to have a > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > chapters > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > problem > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > pertain > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > to look > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > aside some > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > problem is > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > there, > > and I > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > be > > > happy to > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > targets a > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > that was > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > I've been > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > the tape > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > walls and > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > now so I > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > problem with > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > VERY > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > discover > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > takeup reel > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > supply reel > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > on the > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > fairly > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > replacement brakes > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > the > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > be > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > will slowly > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > idle > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > life from > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > CPU tests > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > obviously burned > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > exposing > > bare > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > short > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > dirt and > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > out. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > manual - > > I did > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > website > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > ), > but that > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > repairs. No > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > machines! I > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > this list > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > APR24 for me > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > of > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > electronic > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > gear) but > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > could really > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > APR24 > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > built and > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > gone by > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > seem > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > Whatever > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > be, and > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > repair > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > figure out > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > repairs. > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1077 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR24 Transport Problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email Adam, I have seen several machines with motor drive amplifiers that over heat to the point of nearly de-soldering the output transistors. You might want to look there. The problem is caused by oscillation. I can't explain why it happens - there doesn't seem to be an obvious component failure - but I do have a fix for it, unless someone out there has a better clue. I'm willing to share. eddie ciletti > Hi Cary, > > Thanks so much for helping! The EOT sensor is definitely dead - so if > you do have one to spare, I'd be very grateful to get it. How much > would that cost, for shipping, packaging and/or your inconvenience? > How should I get that money to you? > > I checked the reel tachs, and the takeup side WAS a bit out of > position, so I repositioned it. The machine is now consistently > playing and winding normally for about 10 or 15 minutes when it's > first powered up (except for the EOT not working). > > Unfortunately, still, after the machine has been on for a while, it > stops working. With no buttons pushed the reel motors are "twitching", > without really moving much in either direction. According to my > oscilloscope, the TIB is sending quick little voltage pulses to the > RMD. When I push any transport button, the machine tries to follow the > command, but stops immediately. For example, when I push FF or RW, the > tape lifter solenoid actuates for a fraction of a second, then drops > out. When I press PLAY the pinch roller does the same thing. When I > push STOP the reels go to idle tension instead of twitching. Do you > think the TIB has a marginal component that fails once it warms up? > > Thanks, > Adam > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Adam, > > > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > > rubber coating). > > > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > > critical. > > > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > > sure its mounted correctly. > > > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > > brakes > > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > > but > > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > > were > > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > > else > > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > > when > > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > > some > > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > > insulated > > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > > the > > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > > current symptoms: > > > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > > tests > > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > > off). > > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > > bad... > > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > > drops > > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > > muster > > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > > time). > > > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > > EOT > > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > > when > > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > > a > > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > > bit > > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > > longer > > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > > on > > > and the more it heats up. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > > a > > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > > things > > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > > can > > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > > possibility > > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > > during the > > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > > (mounted > > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > > OK. > > > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > > to me > > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > > ohm > > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > > maybe > > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > > attempt > > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > > you've > > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > > won't > > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > > facts, > > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > > to have a > > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > > chapters > > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > > problem > > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > > pertain > > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > > to look > > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > > aside some > > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > > problem is > > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , "Scott Phillips" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > > there, > > > and I > > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > > be > > > > happy to > > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > > targets a > > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > > that was > > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > > I've been > > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > > the tape > > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > > walls and > > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > > now so I > > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > > problem with > > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > > VERY > > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > > discover > > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > > takeup reel > > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > > supply reel > > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > > on the > > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > > fairly > > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > > replacement brakes > > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > > the > > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > > be > > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > > will slowly > > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > > idle > > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > > life from > > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > > CPU tests > > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > > obviously burned > > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > > exposing > > > bare > > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > > short > > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > > dirt and > > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > > manual - > > > I did > > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > > website > > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > > ), > > but that > > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > > repairs. No > > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > > machines! I > > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > > this list > > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > > APR24 for me > > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > > of > > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > > electronic > > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > > gear) but > > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > > could really > > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > > APR24 > > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > > built and > > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > > gone by > > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > > seem > > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > > Whatever > > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > > be, and > > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > > repair > > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > > figure out > > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > > repairs. > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1078 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:02 pm Subject: Re: APR24 Transport Problem ladewd Offline Send Email Please share. I've never seen an APR24 RMD get too hot, mainly because its mounted to the chassis. Now the 5000's are a different story. Usually if I change the caps on those, they stop overheating. I have fixed a few APR24 RMD's with just blown transistors though. I'd love to hear a different technique if you've got one. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > Adam, > > I have seen several machines with motor drive amplifiers that over heat > to the point of nearly de-soldering the output transistors. You might > want to look there. The problem is caused by oscillation. I can't > explain why it happens - there doesn't seem to be an obvious component > failure - but I do have a fix for it, unless someone out there has a > better clue. I'm willing to share. > > eddie ciletti > > > Hi Cary, > > > > Thanks so much for helping! The EOT sensor is definitely dead - so if > > you do have one to spare, I'd be very grateful to get it. How much > > would that cost, for shipping, packaging and/or your inconvenience? > > How should I get that money to you? > > > > I checked the reel tachs, and the takeup side WAS a bit out of > > position, so I repositioned it. The machine is now consistently > > playing and winding normally for about 10 or 15 minutes when it's > > first powered up (except for the EOT not working). > > > > Unfortunately, still, after the machine has been on for a while, it > > stops working. With no buttons pushed the reel motors are "twitching", > > without really moving much in either direction. According to my > > oscilloscope, the TIB is sending quick little voltage pulses to the > > RMD. When I push any transport button, the machine tries to follow the > > command, but stops immediately. For example, when I push FF or RW, the > > tape lifter solenoid actuates for a fraction of a second, then drops > > out. When I press PLAY the pinch roller does the same thing. When I > > push STOP the reels go to idle tension instead of twitching. Do you > > think the TIB has a marginal component that fails once it warms up? > > > > Thanks, > > Adam > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > Adam, > > > > > > Ok, we have to go at this step by step. A sluggish transport can > > > often be caused by a missing a phase on one of the tachometers on > > > the machine. It is often caused when tape gets stuck under the reel > > > turntable. There are hall effect sensors on both reels and the > > > timer roller which is the one closest to the erase head (and has a > > > rubber coating). > > > > > > You'll need a scope for this, and you can find all the tach signals > > > on the TIB board in the middle, under the front panel or at the tach > > > boards themselves. The connectors on the TIB should be marked where > > > they came from. Make sure you have 2 tach signals coming from each > > > tach (both of them are on a single connector). Ideally they should > > > be 90 degrees out of phase with one another, but its not THAT > > > critical. > > > > > > Many times when the machine will spill tape and it gets > > > caught under the turntable,the tach will be dislodged from its > > > position. The reel tachs would be suspect, since that's where the > > > trouble started. If you take off the top plate and look at the reel > > > motors, you'll see a PC board with a small sensor mounted close to > > > the turntable. There is a circular magnet on the turntable and this > > > gives you your tach pulses. Compare it with the other tachs and make > > > sure its mounted correctly. > > > > > > BTW, I think I have a couple of EOT assemblies for the APR24 lying > > > around here somewhere. If you need a new one, this is the > > > opportunity I've been saving it for. You pay shipping. > > > > > > Sorry I don't get here every day, but I'll help whenever I can. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Cary, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help and advice! I think you're right about the > > > brakes > > > > binding to the turntables during storage. They've since come free, > > > but > > > > unfortunately it appears that during the brief period that they > > > were > > > > stuck and the machine was running with them still on, something > > > else > > > > was damaged. Currently, all the solenoids are working, at least > > > when > > > > the machine decides to actuate them... > > > > > > > > Also, the EOT sensor did appear to have shorted to the chassis at > > > some > > > > point - the top wire has copper exposed. I have temporarily > > > insulated > > > > that with E-tape, but obviously that could be another reason why > > > the > > > > APR24 isn't working properly anymore. > > > > > > > > I just found some more time to look at the machine, here are its > > > > current symptoms: > > > > > > > > On 1st power up (after being off for a day or more), passes CPU > > > tests > > > > 1-3 and immediately goes into stop mode (the lamp in stop button is > > > > burned out, but reel motors apply idle tension and the brakes go > > > off). > > > > Blocking EOT sensor has no obvious effect. It also does exactly the > > > > same thing when powered up with the EOT sensor unplugged. Plays & > > > > winds OK, but seems a bit sluggish (brakes are off) everything else > > > > normal at first. I'm thinking this might mean the photocell is > > > bad... > > > > or whatever is driving it? How could I test that? > > > > > > > > After being on and playing for about 10 minutes, it will no longer > > > > hold transport logic commands, it starts to play or wind, then > > > drops > > > > out with no stop/idle tension unless stop button is held down. It > > > > seems as if it is trying to obey transport commands, but cannot > > > muster > > > > enough power (very sluggish) so stops. When it drops out, the reels > > > > sometimes twitch a bit in same direction as stop/idle (not all the > > > time). > > > > > > > > Thereafter, on power up, brakes go off, but no idle/stop tension, > > > EOT > > > > sensor still has no effect. Reels twitch or spin into stop/idle > > > when > > > > stop button held down, and sometimes afterwards for a while. After > > > a > > > > while, reels randomly twitch when no button pushed, and there's > > > > idle/stop tension when stop held down. It won't go into play or > > > > fastwind, but lifter solenoid sometimes actuates for a second on > > > > fastwind commands. Pinch roller solenoid sometimes actuates for a > > > > second on play. Brakes stay off. > > > > > > > > PSU voltages under load all checkout OK (per p. 5-15 of manual) > > > > although it's hard to keep it playing or winding for long, so I > > > > haven't really been able to test comprehensively during play/wind. > > > > > > > > With the brake solenoids disconnected (and the brakes removed), it > > > > seems a little more capable of playing or winding, it goes for a > > > bit > > > > longer before stopping. 20 secs... 15 secs... it gets worse the > > > longer > > > > it's on. But it still has same problem eventually. > > > > > > > > Could this behavior indicate a problem with the RMD? Or the power > > > > supply? It certainly seems to get worse the longer the machine is > > > on > > > > and the more it heats up. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As far as the brakes go, either the solenoid is open or you lost > > > a > > > > > driver on the TIB board. The TIB is the central hub for all > > > things > > > > > transport related. It is the same schematic as the 5003V so you > > > can > > > > > use that schematic to troubleshoot. Don't overlook the > > > possibility > > > > > that the brakes may have bound themselves to the turntables > > > during the > > > > > storage period. If you're getting reel motion, then the RMD > > > (mounted > > > > > on the left side facing the back of the transport) is probably > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > If your photocell was bad, the tape reels would turn in opposite > > > > > directions as soon as you turn on the machine. This indicates > > > to me > > > > > that the photocell is OK. All solenoids on this machine use 2 > > > > > voltages. One for pull and one to keep it engaged. Once the > > > > > solenoids are engaged, the voltage is reduced to 5V to keep them > > > > > energized. This way they don't open up on you. It is entirely > > > > > possible that more than one solenoid has failed on you. I would > > > ohm > > > > > them all out; the pinch roller, brakes and lifters. In addition > > > maybe > > > > > your 24V from the power supply is failing when the solenoids > > > attempt > > > > > to energize. That's about all I can think of now with what > > > you've > > > > > described. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the machine > > > won't > > > > > go into play or fast wind. If you come up with any additional > > > facts, > > > > > I'll be glad to help out some more. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "adamacr1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for replying and offering to scan some stuff - I hope > > > to have a > > > > > > better idea where the problem is located soon. I already have > > > chapters > > > > > > 1 - 7 of the manual but I don't have any of the block diagrams, > > > > > > schematics, circuit board diagrams or parts info. Since the > > > problem > > > > > > seems to be confined to the transport, any of those pages that > > > pertain > > > > > > to the transport control would be a huge help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been really busy and haven't had much time > > > to look > > > > > > at the machine more in the past few days. I'm going to set > > > aside some > > > > > > time for further troubleshooting soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where this > > > problem is > > > > > > likely to be? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , "Scott Phillips" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have access to the APR24 manuals... but there is a lot > > > there, > > > > and I > > > > > > > haven't the time or resources right now to scan it all. I'd > > > be > > > > > happy to > > > > > > > do some select portions for you if you can narrow your > > > targets a > > > > > bit.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of adamacr1 > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:35 AM > > > > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 Transport Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings APR Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought an APR24 about a year ago, destined for my studio > > > that was > > > > > > > under construction, and it was tested and working fine then. > > > > I've been > > > > > > > lurking and reading and enjoying this fantastic group while > > > the tape > > > > > > > machine waited for basement floors to be excavated and new > > > walls and > > > > > > > ceilings to be built. Well, the control room's mostly done > > > now so I > > > > > > > powered up the machine and unfortunately it's developed a > > > > problem with > > > > > > > the transport. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was playing and winding for a minute or two, but seemed > > > VERY > > > > > > > sluggish, so I powered it down and took off the top cover to > > > > discover > > > > > > > that the brakes hadn't disengaged! Trying to play, the > > > takeup reel > > > > > > > brake had worn away some of it's rubber surface, and the > > > supply reel > > > > > > > brake broke free from it's mount. I think maybe the rubber > > > on the > > > > > > > brakes got stuck while it was sitting unused. I can fix the > > > fairly > > > > > > > straight forward problem with the brakes (finding > > > replacement brakes > > > > > > > would make it easier, if anyone has any available), but now > > > the > > > > > > > transport is non-functional. The EOT sensor doesn't seem to > > > be > > > > > > > working, and none of the transport controls function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I hold down the stop button, the button lights and it > > > will slowly > > > > > > > rotate the reels away from the heads, which seems to be the > > > idle > > > > > > > takeup tension for stop mode, but that's the only sign of > > > life from > > > > > > > the transport. The power supply voltages are correct, the > > > CPU tests > > > > > > > pass, and the audio functions seem OK. There are no > > > obviously burned > > > > > > > or corroded parts on the circuit boards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did find some cut insulation on the EOT sensor wiring > > > exposing > > > > bare > > > > > > > wire where it runs to the top piece of the sensor - maybe a > > > short > > > > > > > there caused this problem? There was also a lot of hidden > > > dirt and > > > > > > > shed tape oxide under the top plate that I've since cleaned > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I don't yet have a complete copy of the > > > manual - > > > > I did > > > > > > > find a PDF of most of it available for download on Berklee's > > > website > > > > > > > (http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_files/manuals_pdf/ > > > > > > > > > > > ), > > > but that > > > > > > > doesn't include the schematics so it's not much help with > > > > repairs. No > > > > > > > doubt they don't want students working on the school's > > > machines! I > > > > > > > also have a PDF of the APR5003V manual thanks to Richard and > > > > this list > > > > > > > (thanks again!), however it's not similar enough to the > > > APR24 for me > > > > > > > to decipher what the problem is with my deck. I've had a lot > > > of > > > > > > > experience working on older tape machines and simpler > > > electronic > > > > > > > repairs (JH110, Ampex 440/MM1000/MM1200 and various outboard > > > > gear) but > > > > > > > since the APR24 is way more complicated than those so I > > > could really > > > > > > > use some help with troubleshooting. Getting the rest of the > > > APR24 > > > > > > > manual would be a big help too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After spending a lot of money trying to get this studio > > > built and > > > > > > > equipped, my budget is very tight. Actually it's pretty much > > > gone by > > > > > > > now. So, hiring a tech to come look at this machine doesn't > > > seem > > > > > > > doable right now, and I really want to get the APR rolling. > > > Whatever > > > > > > > help anyone could give me as to what the likely problem would > > > > be, and > > > > > > > what to check out, would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd like to > > > repair > > > > > > > this myself, if it's something I can handle, or at least > > > figure out > > > > > > > what circuit board(s) I might need to send out to a tech for > > > > repairs. > > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Adam Cooke > > > > > > > Baltimore, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1079 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:07 pm Subject: Needed: Tascam 1" NAB Hub adapters richardlhess Offline Send Email I got a call today from Michael Murray mjm (at) printersrepairparts dot com He is looking for 1" NAB Hub adapters for the Tascam machines. Believe it or not, they have cine locks and then use a special (and apparently fragile) one-inch adapter. Don't contact me, contact Michael at the above address which is marginally spam proofed. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1080 From: "rockitrecordings" Date: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:26 pm Subject: Record/Play problems with MCI JH110B rockitrecord... Offline Send Email I just put a reel on my previously untested 4 track and it shuttles, REWINDS & FASTFORWARDS but it doesn't RECORD or PLAY. Sometimes when I turn it on the EDIT light and RECORD light are both on. Any ideas? Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1081 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:50 am Subject: Scully Professiional Tape Recorder Group a2dtransfer Offline Send Email Hi All -- Due to the puzzling lack of information about Scully professional tape recorders on the Web, I have started a Scully Recorder Yahoo group. I would like to invite members of the Sony_APR list to join the group if you think you'd be interested in discussing the history, use, maintenance or operation of Scully machines with other interested people. We will encourage the free interchange of information between those who have it and those who need it. Additionally, networking between people who need paid professional help with their machines and people who can provide such help will also be encouraged. This may include help with repairs, maintenance, consultation and even sales of Scully recorders. I will be moderating the list. I don't expect it to be high traffic but I am hoping it will be high *value*. And I promise that I will allow only postings which are relevant to the list members. To join the group, just go to: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/scully_recorder ... and click on the "Join This Group" button in the right hand corner. Hope to "see" you there. Best regards, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1082 From: "j sans" Date: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:45 pm Subject: APR Equalization preferences sansone3936 Offline Send Email What's the best EQ standard for the APR5000 in 1/2inch 2track format at 15ips? NAB or IEC? _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\ live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1083 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Dec 3, 2006 11:59 am Subject: Re: APR Equalization preferences ladewd Offline Send Email Most prefer the IEC alignments. The factory almost always aligned these machines to NAB though. Most of our market was in the USA and Canada. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "j sans" wrote: > > What's the best EQ standard for the APR5000 in 1/2inch 2track format at > 15ips? NAB or IEC? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends > list. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1084 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Dec 3, 2006 3:15 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR Equalization preferences ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I thought we sent out the 1/2" 15ips machines as IEC, but the 1/4" 15ips machines as NAB Cary....or is my memory faded ? Perhaps I'm thinking of the JH110 machines..? In any case, I'd think IEC is the way to go on 1/2"... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:00 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Equalization preferences Most prefer the IEC alignments. The factory almost always aligned these machines to NAB though. Most of our market was in the USA and Canada. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "j sans" wrote: > > What's the best EQ standard for the APR5000 in 1/2inch 2track format at > 15ips? NAB or IEC? > > __________________________________________________________ > Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends > list. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1085 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Dec 5, 2006 8:20 am Subject: Re: APR Equalization preferences ladewd Offline Send Email Could be that my memory faded. I could swear I had the 1/2" NAB repro tapes at my bench. Water under the bridge as they say. IEC is superior anyway. BTW, I still have all my repro tapes from those days. The California weather seems to keep them intact! They would turn to mush in a few years in the Florida humidity. Best, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I thought we sent out the 1/2" 15ips machines as IEC, but the 1/4" 15ips > machines as NAB Cary....or is my memory faded ? Perhaps I'm thinking of > the JH110 machines..? > > In any case, I'd think IEC is the way to go on 1/2"... > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:00 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Equalization preferences > > > > Most prefer the IEC alignments. The factory almost always aligned > these machines to NAB though. Most of our market was in the USA and > Canada. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "j > sans" wrote: > > > > What's the best EQ standard for the APR5000 in 1/2inch 2track format > at > > 15ips? NAB or IEC? > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces > friends > > list. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? > > href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx? > > wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1086 From: "Brian" Date: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:13 pm Subject: APR 5003 repairs? criticsdrmr Offline Send Email Ok, I've had my APR-5003 for about three years now. I keep procrastinating on getting the thing serviced. I'm making my new year resolution to have it up and running by spring! Do you guys have any suggestions on places in the midwest (I'm in Milwaukee) to have the work done? I would rather not ship it if I don't have to. Basically, I saved this one from a dumpster at a local TV station. The unit does not power up (at least it didn't three years ago) and I have no intention of trying to power it up again myself. Otherwise, I've been spoiled lately working on a great Studer 827 for tracking and for once would like to try bypassing Protools alltogether. Yes, I realize that owning/maintaining a R2R machine is a real commitment. However, now that I am freelancing at another studio, my overhead has gone down significantly and can now afford this. I feel that this machine deserves another chance at life. Your help is much appreciated. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1087 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:22 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 repairs? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Brian I'm in the Twin Cities. eddie ciletti > Ok, I've had my APR-5003 for about three years now. I keep > procrastinating on getting the > thing serviced. I'm making my new year resolution to have it up and > running by spring! Do > you guys have any suggestions on places in the midwest (I'm in > Milwaukee) to have the work > done? I would rather not ship it if I don't have to. Basically, I > saved this one from a dumpster > at a local TV station. The unit does not power up (at least it didn't > three years ago) and I > have no intention of trying to power it up again myself. Otherwise, > I've been spoiled lately > working on a great Studer 827 for tracking and for once would like to > try bypassing Protools > alltogether. Yes, I realize that owning/maintaining a R2R machine is a > real commitment. > However, now that I am freelancing at another studio, my overhead has > gone down > significantly and can now afford this. I feel that this machine > deserves another chance at life. > Your help is much appreciated. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1088 From: R A Date: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:59 pm Subject: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit wrekamusic Offline Send Email Hi everyone, I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint condition, but it did not come with the remote control unit. I am looking for the remote, if anyone has one. Also, will any another remote work with the APR 24, or could one be rewired to arm the inputs, punch in and out etc? Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1089 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:33 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi -- R A wrote: > Hi everyone, > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > condition, but it did not come with the remote > control unit. I am looking for the remote, if > anyone has one. > > Also, will any another remote work with the APR > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the inputs, > punch in and out etc? I truly hope you find the real remote. Between now and then, you might consider picking up a used Microlynx. They can be had for very little money these days. You'll have to give up a track to time code but I believe that, functionality-wise, the Microlynx will hold you over while you stalk the remote. Besides controlling basic tape movement, it can also handle automated punch in/out and multipoint search to cue. Needless to say, it can make the machine chase and lock to sync, but I'm guessing that's already built into your APR. APR24 shows up as supported in my manual. You'll need a special cable. The contact and support info you need is here: http://www.timelinevista.net/ Hope this helps. Best, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1090 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:35 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit paulmcculloh Offline Send Email GRS Systems, LLC (www.grssystems.com) builds beautiful (and reasonably priced) custom remotes for the Sony APR series. "Any size panel can be custom made to your requirements and can be enclosed for desktop mounting or to fit in an existing console opening. Price by quotation. We have built APR remotes in 6" X 8" desktop boxes and some as small as 1" X 5 1/2" for insertion into a console strip. We have built 23 of these to date since mid 2005 for various clients. Each one a customized panel layout. Some with more function controls and some with less." (from Ted Jolly's e-mail to me) I have not had them build a remote for me (yet...), but from the photos Ted sent me, the build quality is superb. Contact Ted Jolly at GRSsupport@... for more information. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > condition, but it did not come with the remote > control unit. I am looking for the remote, if > anyone has one. > > Also, will any another remote work with the APR > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the inputs, > punch in and out etc? > > Thanks. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1091 From: R A Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:47 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit wrekamusic Offline Send Email Thanks Steve, I appreciate your input. Rick --- Steve Puntolillo wrote: > Hi -- > > R A wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > > condition, but it did not come with the > remote > > control unit. I am looking for the remote, > if > > anyone has one. > > > > Also, will any another remote work with the > APR > > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the > inputs, > > punch in and out etc? > > I truly hope you find the real remote. Between > now and then, you might > consider picking up a used Microlynx. They can > be had for very little > money these days. You'll have to give up a > track to time code but I > believe that, functionality-wise, the Microlynx > will hold you over while > you stalk the remote. > > Besides controlling basic tape movement, it can > also handle automated > punch in/out and multipoint search to cue. > Needless to say, it can make > the machine chase and lock to sync, but I'm > guessing that's already > built into your APR. > > APR24 shows up as supported in my manual. > You'll need a special cable. > The contact and support info you need is here: > > http://www.timelinevista.net/ > > Hope this helps. > > Best, > > -- Steve > > ======================================================== > Steve Puntolillo > Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 > D_igital X_fers > http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx > ======================================================== > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1092 From: R A Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:45 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit wrekamusic Offline Send Email Thank you for the info. I truly appreciate it! I will take a look at their website. --- Paul McCulloh wrote: > GRS Systems, LLC (www.grssystems.com) builds > beautiful (and > reasonably priced) custom remotes for the Sony > APR series. "Any > size panel can be custom made to your > requirements and can be > enclosed for desktop mounting or to fit in an > existing console > opening. Price by quotation. We have built APR > remotes in 6" X 8" > desktop boxes and some as small as 1" X 5 1/2" > for insertion into a > console strip. We have built 23 of these to > date since mid 2005 for > various clients. Each one a customized panel > layout. Some with more > function controls and some with less." (from > Ted Jolly's e-mail to > me) > > I have not had them build a remote for me > (yet...), but from the > photos Ted sent me, the build quality is > superb. Contact Ted Jolly > at GRSsupport@... for more information. > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A > wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > > condition, but it did not come with the > remote > > control unit. I am looking for the remote, > if > > anyone has one. > > > > Also, will any another remote work with the > APR > > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the > inputs, > > punch in and out etc? > > > > Thanks. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1093 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:06 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit paulmcculloh Offline Send Email I dropped Ted Jolly a line to see what was up because I couldn't get to the website. He wrote me back right away. "We had a devastating fire in our commercial building park that wiped out our shop and studio. We are in the process of rebuilding everything in a new location, but we are trying to accommodate some business at the same time!...the web site is down as we were hosting the site with our own servers in our building. But all of that went up in smoke. Our web site should be back up in the next few days...we hope." He said he will see if he can contact you directly or post to the group board. Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A wrote: > > Thank you for the info. I truly appreciate it! > I will take a look at their website. > --- Paul McCulloh wrote: > > > GRS Systems, LLC (www.grssystems.com) builds > > beautiful (and > > reasonably priced) custom remotes for the Sony > > APR series. "Any > > size panel can be custom made to your > > requirements and can be > > enclosed for desktop mounting or to fit in an > > existing console > > opening. Price by quotation. We have built APR > > remotes in 6" X 8" > > desktop boxes and some as small as 1" X 5 1/2" > > for insertion into a > > console strip. We have built 23 of these to > > date since mid 2005 for > > various clients. Each one a customized panel > > layout. Some with more > > function controls and some with less." (from > > Ted Jolly's e-mail to > > me) > > > > I have not had them build a remote for me > > (yet...), but from the > > photos Ted sent me, the build quality is > > superb. Contact Ted Jolly > > at GRSsupport@... for more information. > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > > > condition, but it did not come with the > > remote > > > control unit. I am looking for the remote, > > if > > > anyone has one. > > > > > > Also, will any another remote work with the > > APR > > > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the > > inputs, > > > punch in and out etc? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1094 From: R A Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:20 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit wrekamusic Offline Send Email Wow! That is terrible news. Just happy they are ok. Thanks for looking into it for me. No rush on the call, considering. Rick --- Paul McCulloh wrote: > I dropped Ted Jolly a line to see what was up > because I couldn't get > to the website. He wrote me back right away. > "We had a devastating > fire in our commercial building park that wiped > out our shop and > studio. We are in the process of rebuilding > everything in a new > location, but we are trying to accommodate some > business at the same > time!...the web site is down as we were hosting > the site with our > own servers in our building. But all of that > went up in smoke. Our > web site should be back up in the next few > days...we hope." > > He said he will see if he can contact you > directly or post to the > group board. > > Paul > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A > wrote: > > > > Thank you for the info. I truly appreciate > it! > > I will take a look at their website. > > --- Paul McCulloh wrote: > > > > > GRS Systems, LLC (www.grssystems.com) > builds > > > beautiful (and > > > reasonably priced) custom remotes for the > Sony > > > APR series. "Any > > > size panel can be custom made to your > > > requirements and can be > > > enclosed for desktop mounting or to fit in > an > > > existing console > > > opening. Price by quotation. We have built > APR > > > remotes in 6" X 8" > > > desktop boxes and some as small as 1" X 5 > 1/2" > > > for insertion into a > > > console strip. We have built 23 of these > to > > > date since mid 2005 for > > > various clients. Each one a customized > panel > > > layout. Some with more > > > function controls and some with less." > (from > > > Ted Jolly's e-mail to > > > me) > > > > > > I have not had them build a remote for me > > > (yet...), but from the > > > photos Ted sent me, the build quality is > > > superb. Contact Ted Jolly > > > at GRSsupport@... for more information. > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in > mint > > > > condition, but it did not come with the > > > remote > > > > control unit. I am looking for the > remote, > > > if > > > > anyone has one. > > > > > > > > Also, will any another remote work with > the > > > APR > > > > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the > > > inputs, > > > > punch in and out etc? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best > spam > > > protection around > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1095 From: twjolly@... Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:42 pm Subject: GRS Pro Audio - Rising from the ashes ! twjjolly Offline Send Email Hello all. Yes, a few months back we did have devastating fire at GRS Pro Audio that wipe out our shop and studio. The fire was started in an adjacent commercial space. It was later determined that it was arson. We lost nearly $1M of vintage gear, including our vintage Neve 8088, our Amek's, all of our Studers, all of our APR's and M79's. We also lost a number of vintage mics and all outboard equipment. Luckily we didn't loose ANY of our customer repair units as they were all in our fireproof 'hot room' test building within our shop. A little news and some old history... Since the fire, we have recently purchased 1 1/2 acres of land in the Temecula California 'Wine Country' and have started construction of our new studios, manufacturing shop and repair shop. Give us about 10 to 12 months to be fullly up to speed with everything. In the mean time we have our web site back up again at _http://www.grssystems.com_ (http://www.grssystems.com) which is the GRS Pro Audio web site. The GRS Pro Audio business is a division of GRS Systems, LLC which is our other business which relates to Graphics Software development, training videos and related products ( a seemingly unrelated business, but requires the use of audio and video production studios - and that's the relationship). That web site is at: _www.grs-systems.com_ (http://www.grs-systems.com) We sure do appreciate all of the good will messages from our friends and clients. Your encouragement has kept us all going in a very tragic time when each of us was questioning whether or not to start over or not. THANKS FOR ALL OF THE SUPPORT ! Best regards, Ted Jolly & the Staff at GRS Pro Audio / GRS Systems, LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Control Unit I dropped Ted Jolly a line to see what was up because I couldn't get to the website. He wrote me back right away. "We had a devastating fire in our commercial building park that wiped out our shop and studio. We are in the process of rebuilding everything in a new location, but we are trying to accommodate some business at the same time!...the web site is down as we were hosting the site with our own servers in our building. But all of that went up in smoke. Our web site should be back up in the next few days...we hope." He said he will see if he can contact you directly or post to the group board. Paul --- In _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) , R A wrote: > > Thank you for the info. I truly appreciate it! > I will take a look at their website. > --- Paul McCulloh wrote: > > > GRS Systems, LLC (www.grssystems. GRS System > > beautiful (and > > reasonably priced) custom remotes for the Sony > > APR series. "Any > > size panel can be custom made to your > > requirements and can be > > enclosed for desktop mounting or to fit in an > > existing console > > opening. Price by quotation. We have built APR > > remotes in 6" X 8" > > desktop boxes and some as small as 1" X 5 1/2" > > for insertion into a > > console strip. We have built 23 of these to > > date since mid 2005 for > > various clients. Each one a customized panel > > layout. Some with more > > function controls and some with less." (from > > Ted Jolly's e-mail to > > me) > > > > I have not had them build a remote for me > > (yet...), but from the > > photos Ted sent me, the build quality is > > superb. Contact Ted Jolly > > at GRSsupport@. at GRSsupport@... fo > > > > --- In _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) , R A > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > I purchased a Sony APR 24 (24 track)in mint > > > condition, but it did not come with the > > remote > > > control unit. I am looking for the remote, > > if > > > anyone has one. > > > > > > Also, will any another remote work with the > > APR > > > 24, or could one be rewired to arm the > > inputs, > > > punch in and out etc? > > > > > > Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1096 From: "Christopher" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 10:37 am Subject: Apr-5000 manual/question. yoyopunk1 Offline Send Email Hey guys. I just bought a Sony APR-5000 and I'm having an issue with it. The problem is the take-up reel is moving a little too slow and causing the tape to loosen up and pop off. I'm trying to find a pdf manual and or some tips on perhaps solving the problem. I don't REALLY want to take it out of the studio unless it's a last resort. Thanks in advance. Everything else is in perfect working condition. -Christopher Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1097 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 12:05 pm Subject: Re: Apr-5000 manual/question. eddieaudio Offline Send Email Christopher the motor drive amplifier is under the heat sink on the rear panel. Look for signs of heat. eddie > Hey guys. I just bought a Sony APR-5000 and I'm having an issue with > it. The problem is the > take-up reel is moving a little too slow and causing the tape to > loosen up and pop off. I'm > trying to find a pdf manual and or some tips on perhaps solving the > problem. I don't REALLY > want to take it out of the studio unless it's a last resort. Thanks in > advance. Everything else > is in perfect working condition. > > -Christopher > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1098 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 12:48 pm Subject: Re: Apr-5000 manual/question. richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Christopher, I keep the manual online in PDF format for requests such as yours. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Good luck fixing it! Cheers, Richard At 10:37 AM 2007-01-03, Christopher wrote: >Hey guys. I just bought a Sony APR-5000 and I'm having an issue >with it. The problem is the >take-up reel is moving a little too slow and causing the tape to >loosen up and pop off. I'm >trying to find a pdf manual and or some tips on perhaps solving the >problem. I don't REALLY >want to take it out of the studio unless it's a last resort. Thanks >in advance. Everything else >is in perfect working condition. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1099 From: "jooshtin" Date: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:03 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem jooshtin Offline Send Email With the start of the new year I'm determined to get my APR5003 fixed! I'm looking for some help setting/checking the correct bias and erase levels - both the master levels for the MST card and the maximum CNL card output. The only reference I can find in the manual is for 1/2" heads stating a master bias of 10.2V p-p and master erase of 15V p-p. I'm getting nice sinewaves on my (new) scope and the +/- 15 volts etc all now seem good. Next I need to replace some transistors too..... Does anyone know a supplier for the bias/erase transistors - D44C9 and D45C9? Many thanks and a happy new year, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > You need to get a hold of an scope and check the actual bias and erase > waveforms. There are adjustments on the MST card for the master bias > and erase voltages. Set the bias per the manual, but keep the erase > voltage as low as you can while still achieving adequate erase > performance. This usually is about 12V p-p. You should see a nice > sine wave on the output of the bias drivers on the CNL card. You can > see these on the coax cable that runs the length of the card on the > right side. One should be 100 kHz, that's erase and the other should > be 400KHz, which is the bias. With these machines, when you lose bias > level, its usually caused by either the drivers on the CNL cards > distorting, or inadequate +/-15V from the MST card. If both cards are > affected similarly, then look to the MST card for the source of your > troubles. It is entirely possible that both the driver transistors on > both CNL cards are bad if they have been run in a distortion mode for > any length of time. The big clue here is that the transistors on the > heatsinks on the CNL's usually run hot, when in record, but they run > REAL hot when the bias or erase is distorting. > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > At long last I've had time to check over my apr and carry out some > fixes - huge thanks to > > the group for your kind help and advice. It worked great for about > 30 minutes then it lost > > some of the bias adjustment on both channels. The maximin overbias > adjustment I can get > > for both channels is now 2dB. I had replaced the blown caps on the > mst & cnl boards and > > put in a new LM13600N on cnl channel 1. The + & - 15 and 18 volt > supplys are stable and > > seem to check out ok. Before I start testing it again I'd be > grateful for any thoughts the > > group might have on the problem. All the very best, Justin > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > That's one of the main reasons I left Sony. They would send me out on > > > a field call and never have the parts available for me to fix the > > > machines. This wasn't only the APR series, but all audio products. > > > Fortunately, the APR CNL and MST cards use off-the-shelf parts. You > > > shouldn't have too much trouble finding the transistors and other > > > parts you'll need to fix it. You'll only run into a jam if you need > > > the i/o hybrids they used in the non-surface mount cards. The surface > > > mount cards use SSM chips which you can still get from Analog Devices, > > > which is fortunate, since they seem to blow quite often. > > > > > > BTW, an oscilloscope would be a necessity to troubleshoot bias and > > > erase problems. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an > > > encouraging chat with one of > > > > their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to > > > say Sony don't supply > > > > spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even > > > look at it. So much for > > > > the UK Sony Professional service company! > > > > > > > > If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it > > > over I'd be grateful. In > > > > the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... > > > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > > > Here in the States, if you call Sony and ask them about the APR > > > > > series, (much less the JH series) they'll tell you they never > existed. > > > > > I think you'll have a much better chance in the UK finding > Sony techs > > > > > that remember these machines. > > > > > > > > > > Good Luck with it. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks Cary and Eddie, I'll check the regulators etc. - > on the > > > > > face of it it seems only > > > > > > c3 on card 2 got obviously fried. Luckily it transpires that > Thear > > > > > Technology who were the > > > > > > UK sony service centre for the apr range are not far from > me, they > > > > > are checking availability > > > > > > of components and I'll get them to give it a thorough going > over. If > > > > > anything like this > > > > > > happens again I certainly won't be so quick to re-adjust and > carry! > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also agree with Cary's statement, not Justin-specific but to > > > anyone > > > > > > > who notices a sudden change in performance. Don't attempt to > > > > > re-adjust > > > > > > > - things don't tend to go that far out of alignment with the > > > > > exception > > > > > > > of memory-stored parameters - It's an indication that > > > something more > > > > > > > serious is wrong... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than pointing out some common APR audio-related > > > failures, I > > > > > > > > can't fix it for you over the internet. If you have a > manual and > > > > > > > > extender card, check the +/-15v regulators on the Audio > > > Master Card. > > > > > > > > What sometimes happens is one of these fail. In your case, > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > the positive regulator. This distorts the bias and erase > > > waveforms > > > > > > > > which in turn blow up the bias and erase drivers on the > channel > > > > > cards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pull all the cards out, and take off the heatsink plates and > > > look > > > > > > > > around the heatsinks that are near the front of the > card. What I > > > > > > > > generally see is the transistors mounted to these heatsinks > > > will get > > > > > > > > extremely hot and melt the small nylon collar which > > > insulates the > > > > > > > > mounting screw on the transistor to the heatsink. The only > > > fix is to > > > > > > > > go through and replace all the blown components in both the > > > Audio > > > > > > > > Master Card (MST) and the Channel Cards (CNL) and of course > > > install > > > > > > > > new nylon collars, transistors and a new C3 on Channel card > > > #2. You > > > > > > > > have to check all the related components in the circuit and > > > replace > > > > > > > > burned resistors, bad diodes etc before trying it out > again, or > > > > > it may > > > > > > > > smoke again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key thing here is you shouldn't have continued to > > > operate the > > > > > > > > machine when you noticed the distortion. It was an > indication > > > > > > > > something was wrong and now things got worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't offer you any more advice without any more > information > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > , > > > > > > > > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I was recording a 10kHz tone and comparing the (lack > > > of) bias > > > > > > > > adjustment on each > > > > > > > > > channel on the alignment keypad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > , > > > > > > > > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were you in record when things started smoking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > , "jooshtin" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! My apr5003v has gone wierd. A few weeks ago the > > > level on > > > > > > > > > > channel 1 dropped and > > > > > > > > > > > was distorted, the bias adjustment had gone way out on > > > > > channel 1, > > > > > > > > > > so I re-aligned it via > > > > > > > > > > > the alignment keypad and all was fine. Now the record > > > level in > > > > > > > > > > channel 1 has dropped/ > > > > > > > > > > > distorted again. When I swap the audio cards the level > > > > > drop stays > > > > > > > > > > with card 1. For all the > > > > > > > > > > > tape/speed presets the bias settings for both channels > > > are no > > > > > > > > > > longer the over-bias > > > > > > > > > > > settings they should be - and there isn't the headroom > > > > > left on the > > > > > > > > > > bias adjustment on the > > > > > > > > > > > alignment keypad to adjust it. Whilst running some > > > test tones > > > > > > > > > > today smoke started > > > > > > > > > > > coming from capacitor C3 on audio card 2 so I > turned it > > > > > off quick! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the cards are labeled "apr series" except the > channel > > > > > 1 audio > > > > > > > > > > card which is labeled "apr > > > > > > > > > > > 5000" so may have been replaced before I got the > > > machine. The > > > > > > > > > > input levels are fine, all > > > > > > > > > > > the repro levels from the MRL test tape are fine. > Software > > > > > version > > > > > > > > > > 4.02.02.4, dated 89A, > > > > > > > > > > > serial number 10423. I'd be grateful for any > advice the > > > > > group can > > > > > > > > > > give, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > many thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1100 From: VFelix Date: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5003v - bias problem rom0964 Offline Send Email Why don't you have this guy have a look at it. Click to the link. http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/ Vince jooshtin wrote: >With the start of the new year I'm determined to get my APR5003 fixed! I'm looking for >some help setting/checking the correct bias and erase levels - both the master levels for >the MST card and the maximum CNL card output. The only reference I can find in the >manual is for 1/2" heads stating a master bias of 10.2V p-p and master erase of 15V p-p. >I'm getting nice sinewaves on my (new) scope and the +/- 15 volts etc all now seem good. >Next I need to replace some transistors too..... > >Does anyone know a supplier for the bias/erase transistors - D44C9 and D45C9? > >Many thanks and a happy new year, Justin > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1101 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:04 am Subject: Re: Re: APR5003v - bias problem eddieaudio Offline Send Email VFelix I believe those transistors are GE parts and while this may be a sacrilege to some (I hope not), you can cross-reference the parts at http://nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTExRefSemiProd.nsf/$$Search?OpenForm worst case you get some useful parameters. > Why don't you have this guy have a look at it. Click to the link. > http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/ > > Vince > > jooshtin wrote: > > >With the start of the new year I'm determined to get my APR5003 > fixed! I'm looking for > >some help setting/checking the correct bias and erase levels - both > the master levels for > >the MST card and the maximum CNL card output. The only reference I > can find in the > >manual is for 1/2" heads stating a master bias of 10.2V p-p and > master erase of 15V p-p. > >I'm getting nice sinewaves on my (new) scope and the +/- 15 volts etc > all now seem good. > >Next I need to replace some transistors too..... > > > >Does anyone know a supplier for the bias/erase transistors - D44C9 > and D45C9? > > > >Many thanks and a happy new year, Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1102 From: "jooshtin" Date: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:48 am Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem jooshtin Offline Send Email Thanks for the links, very helpful and it means I can get equivalents here in the UK. I've now ordered the transistors. Cheers, Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > VFelix > > I believe those transistors are GE parts and while this may be a > sacrilege to some (I hope not), you can cross-reference the parts at > > http://nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTExRefSemiProd.nsf/$$Search?OpenForm > worst case you get some useful parameters. > > > > > > Why don't you have this guy have a look at it. Click to the link. > > http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/ > > > > Vince > > > > jooshtin wrote: > > > > >With the start of the new year I'm determined to get my APR5003 > > fixed! I'm looking for > > >some help setting/checking the correct bias and erase levels - both > > the master levels for > > >the MST card and the maximum CNL card output. The only reference I > > can find in the > > >manual is for 1/2" heads stating a master bias of 10.2V p-p and > > master erase of 15V p-p. > > >I'm getting nice sinewaves on my (new) scope and the +/- 15 volts etc > > all now seem good. > > >Next I need to replace some transistors too..... > > > > > >Does anyone know a supplier for the bias/erase transistors - D44C9 > > and D45C9? > > > > > >Many thanks and a happy new year, Justin > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1103 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:09 pm Subject: Recorder Transportation (non-Express, but good) richardlhess Offline Send Email I floated an idea on the Ampex List about slow-moving of tape recorders by people as part of other journeys. We all travel. Some of us like to drive. Recorders are getting damaged in shipping. Sometimes people can wait for the machines. Paul Kraus mailto:pk1048@... has kindly taken my idea and has offered to be the logistics hub -- he's already doing that with another group of people and both groups might get folded in. The basic idea is that tape machines can move as "accompanying baggage" during business trips and family vacations as long as there is enough room in the vehicle. Paul is requesting anyone who would be willing to help with this and/or is looking for tape machines to move contact him with information. Currently, this is an all-volunteer effort. Let's see if we can make it work. We've just had too many good machines damaged in transit. Hint: I brought back six Studer A810s and three other machines on my recent trip to California and one was for someone else who met me so we could do the transfer. I suspect that it could take up to a year to move a tape machine cross-country, but better that than having it, ummm, "drop-shipped" if you get my drift. I had a well-packed A807 arrive at the buyer's home with the two circuit cards un-seated. When plugged back in, he was happy with it. Good recommendation for A807's ruggedness. Ampex 350 and 440 machines may be in this list...these often sustain flywheel damage and this was an impetus for this project. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1104 From: Matt Patoray Date: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:10 pm Subject: Early Bell Labs Stereo Recordings matt_patoray Offline Send Email This is kind of off topic but I thought some of you might be interested. I just finished transferring my copy of ³Early Hi-Fi² to CD and tweaking it a little in Felt tip sound studio. All I di for the tweaks are some eq to remove what was not recorded, and remove a little 60 cycle hum that was in a few of the tracks, I normalized every track to ­1 and did fade ins and outs. These where also live recordings and it is amazing what you can hear on the cd, for saying the recordings where made in 1931-32 and stored until 1979 when they where put on lp. The recordings are not perfect by any stretch but I really like them ,and the stereo recordings are impressive, hell I wish when I was recording one local orchestra I could have gotten the audience/hall to be half as quiet as the one in these recordings. If anyone Is interested in a copy let me know, reply off list at, mspproductions@... The cost for is $5 plus shipping for each copy. Please reply with your name/address and how you can make payment, I can accept paypal Matt ------ End of Forwarded Message Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1105 From: VFelix Date: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:18 am Subject: Re: Early Bell Labs Stereo Recordings rom0964 Offline Send Email I'm not to crazy about cds anymore....sorry! Matt Patoray wrote: >This is kind of off topic but I thought some of you might be interested. > > >I just finished transferring my copy of ³Early Hi-Fi² to CD and tweaking it >a little in Felt tip sound studio. All I di for the tweaks are some eq to >remove what was not recorded, and remove a little 60 cycle hum that was in a >few of the tracks, I normalized every track to ­1 and did fade ins and outs. >These where also live recordings and it is amazing what you can hear on the >cd, for saying the recordings where made in 1931-32 and stored until 1979 >when they where put on lp. The recordings are not perfect by any stretch but >I really like them ,and the stereo recordings are impressive, hell I wish >when I was recording one local orchestra I could have gotten the >audience/hall to be half as quiet as the one in these recordings. > >If anyone Is interested in a copy let me know, reply off list at, >mspproductions@... > >The cost for is $5 plus shipping for each copy. > >Please reply with your name/address and how you can make payment, I can >accept paypal > >Matt > >------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1106 From: AudioSynergy Date: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:17 am Subject: APR & MULTITRACK SUPPORT RE: JUSTIN audiosynergy Offline Send Email In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > > > Looks like I spoke too soon about Thear in the UK, I had an > > > encouraging chat with one of > > > > their techs who knew the apr range, but now they've called back to > > > say Sony don't supply > > > > spares for them (I could have told them that!) so they won't even > > > look at it. So much for > > > > the UK Sony Professional service company! > > > > > > > > If anyone on the list knows of someone in the uk who could check it > > > over I'd be grateful. In > > > > the meantime I'll get the extender card and schematics out..... > > > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > > > Justin Hello Justin, If you are looking for somebody to check out your APR Don Larking at TL AUDIO or LARKING"S LIST. I'm sure would be able to help you out with a tech called Tim Owen (I Think that's his name?) He does all the refurbs for the Analog Mulitracks that both Tony & Don Larking Sell S/H. You can contact them at TL or www.larkingslist.co.uk or it might be www.larkingslist.com Best, Jazz. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1107 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:17 am Subject: ATR Services Tape Announcement richardlhess Offline Send Email In view of the Quantegy announcement of discontinuing tape manufacture in April, here's the announcement that just arrived in my inbox from ATR Magnetics. http://tinyurl.com/2monmj Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1108 From: Everett Moran Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:20 am Subject: Quantegy 467 Replacement? moranpro Offline Send Email Since Quantegy is discontinuing production of 1/2" 467, does anyone know of a comparable tape from another manufacturer? Not ready to retire our 3324 yet... Thanks. Everett Moran (303) 813-8410 (801) 218-5742 eFax Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1109 From: "harrell_eddie" Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:39 pm Subject: Where can I find a Manual for an APR 5000? harrell_eddie Offline Send Email I just had an APR 5000 1/4 machine given to me by a radio station that had put less than 50 hours on it. I feel lucky, I have several MCI JH110's and this will make a great addition to my reel collection. The short of it is that I do not have a manual. If someone could send me a copy, I will gladly pay for the duplication and the postage. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1110 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:44 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy 467 Replacement? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Everett I wonder if it's anything like video stock and if so, what format - perhaps "beta" is the same size? If so, then maybe... ec > Since Quantegy is discontinuing production of 1/2" 467, does anyone > know of a comparable tape from another manufacturer? Not ready to > retire our 3324 yet... > > Thanks. > > Everett Moran > (303) 813-8410 > (801) 218-5742 eFax > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1111 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:54 pm Subject: Re: Quantegy 467 Replacement? radsimple Offline Send Email Folks: Bummer -- digital tapes are unlike any others, not video, not instrumentation. ONES and ZEROS are a unique set of requirements. Btw, I've got about 50 miles of 1/4" Quantegy 467 (mostly on 14" reels) -- useful for PCM-3402/3202 and for Nagra D's . . . in case anyone needs some. Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1112 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:59 pm Subject: Re: Where can I find a Manual for an APR 5000? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie H, Why would you want to pay for duplication and postage when you can just go here? http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Congrats on getting the machine! At 06:39 PM 2007-02-13, you wrote: >I just had an APR 5000 1/4 machine given to me by a radio station that >had put less than 50 hours on it. I feel lucky, I have several MCI >JH110's and this will make a great addition to my reel collection. The >short of it is that I do not have a manual. If someone could send me a >copy, I will gladly pay for the duplication and the postage. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1113 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:27 pm Subject: APR 5003 right channel not working! ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I have a small problem with my APR 5003 unit. On occasion when the machine is powered on, the right channel is not functional even if I swap the channel cards. After reseating the cards several times, the right channel finally starts to work. Right know my schedule to pretty busy and I wondering if you guys can point me in the right direction to start the troubleshooting process. Obviously, I am trying to eliminate a few steps to conserve time because of my hectic schedule. Thanks in advance. Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1114 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:01 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ozzie, Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare machine, no? Cheers, Richard At 11:27 PM 2007-02-18, ozzie_b_music wrote: >Hi Guys, > >I have a small problem with my APR 5003 unit. On occasion when the >machine is powered on, the right channel is not functional even if I >swap the channel cards. After reseating the cards several times, the >right channel finally starts to work. Right know my schedule to pretty >busy and I wondering if you guys can point me in the right direction >to start the troubleshooting process. Obviously, I am trying to >eliminate a few steps to conserve time because of my hectic schedule. > >Thanks in advance. > >Ozzie > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1115 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:15 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Ozzie, > > Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare > machine, no? > > Cheers, > > Richard Hi Richard, Good to hear from you. Yes, I tried both cards from my spare machine with the same results. Typically, as I mentioned after reseating the channel cards several times the channel starts to work. Regards, Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1116 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:31 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...cold solder joint on the edge connector on the backplane ?? Damaged connector..? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ozzie_b_music Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:15 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Ozzie, > > Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare > machine, no? > > Cheers, > > Richard Hi Richard, Good to hear from you. Yes, I tried both cards from my spare machine with the same results. Typically, as I mentioned after reseating the channel cards several times the channel starts to work. Regards, Ozzie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1117 From: "soundscapeaudio" Date: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:41 pm Subject: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello all, Can anyone tell me if there is a suitable replacement part for the SBD1640T? It is a Center-Tapped Schottky Doubler made by General Semiconductor. Obsolete. Vishay does offer similiar ones but I haven't found one that is correct. Mouser doesn't carry anything similiar that I found. This part is found on the SBR board located within the power supply. I've got an APR-5003 that the two traces on the top of the PCB are broken. So, I just need to fix them up and replace the diodes. Has anyone come across this same problem? Are there some things I should check based on this board problem? The transformer looks okay at this point. The main caps need to be replaced but look in good condition. I would like to power up the APR once I fix the SBR board. I will use the power-up method of a rheostat/powerstat. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1118 From: "soundscapeaudio" Date: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:08 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Brian, the NTE6087 will do! Anyone have any things I ought to check based on this problem? Power supply was very dusty. Took care of that and so far I don't see anything else that is burnt. Thanks, Tom --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello all, > > Can anyone tell me if there is a suitable replacement part for the > SBD1640T? It is a Center-Tapped Schottky Doubler made by General > Semiconductor. Obsolete. Vishay does offer similiar ones but I haven't > found one that is correct. Mouser doesn't carry anything similiar that > I found. > > This part is found on the SBR board located within the power supply. > I've got an APR-5003 that the two traces on the top of the PCB are > broken. So, I just need to fix them up and replace the diodes. Has > anyone come across this same problem? Are there some things I should > check based on this board problem? The transformer looks okay at this > point. The main caps need to be replaced but look in good condition. I > would like to power up the APR once I fix the SBR board. I will use the > power-up method of a rheostat/powerstat. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Tom > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1119 From: "finney15" Date: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:11 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T finney15 Offline Send Email No no no... NTE6087 is not compatible! It has the AKA pinout, not center tapped! APR's power supply has heat problem. Diodes, due to the small heat sink, are usually the first one to go so you are on the right direction. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Thanks Brian, the NTE6087 will do! > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1120 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:58 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ladewd Offline Send Email Sounds about right Scott. I remember having a machine with a bad ADM board. This is the board the audio cards plug in to. Its a 3 layer board and I've seen more than one bad plate through on those. It also could be the connector. Pro Gold may be your friend here. I'd try the simpler things first. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > ...cold solder joint on the edge connector on the backplane ?? Damaged > connector..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ozzie_b_music > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:15 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, Ozzie, > > > > Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare > > machine, no? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > Hi Richard, > > Good to hear from you. Yes, I tried both cards from my spare machine > with the same results. Typically, as I mentioned after reseating the > channel cards several times the channel starts to work. > > Regards, > > Ozzie > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1121 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:07 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ladewd Offline Send Email Ozzie, To get to the back of the audio motherboard (ADM) you should take off the bottom panel, and lower the back door on the machine, then you can check that all the connectors from the I/O panel are connected and seated properly. Its a bit of a jungle in there and the cables should by tie wrapped pretty tightly. I would label the cables, although later units had the connector numbers on the harness connectors. Its almost impossible to read the connector numbers on the board itself, so I would mark them anyway. Someone may have tie wrapped a cable to tightly and when the back door was lowered, it came unplugged. Its worth checking out before you really get into the nuts and bolts. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > I have a small problem with my APR 5003 unit. On occasion when the > machine is powered on, the right channel is not functional even if I > swap the channel cards. After reseating the cards several times, the > right channel finally starts to work. Right know my schedule to pretty > busy and I wondering if you guys can point me in the right direction > to start the troubleshooting process. Obviously, I am trying to > eliminate a few steps to conserve time because of my hectic schedule. > > Thanks in advance. > > Ozzie > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1122 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:17 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! richardlhess Offline Send Email This is sounding like a cold solder joint on the backplane -- or a dirty header connector -- Scott? At 02:15 AM 2007-02-19, you wrote: >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, Ozzie, > > > > Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare > > machine, no? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > >Hi Richard, > >Good to hear from you. Yes, I tried both cards from my spare machine >with the same results. Typically, as I mentioned after reseating the >channel cards several times the channel starts to work. > >Regards, > >Ozzie > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1123 From: "finney15" Date: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:40 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T finney15 Offline Send Email Tom, Nobody makes center-tapped Schottky doubler diodes in TO-220 package anymore. Probably Shindengen in Japan still have some but they are hard to get here in the states. You will just have to build your own rectifier based on 4 schottky or fast soft recovery diodes in TO-220 package. This is not necessarily a bad thing because now you can put better heat sinks on the diodes, make them much more reliable than the original ones. They will sound better as well. SBD1640T has a rating of 40V and 8A. You can find many good sounding TO-220 diodes better than this spec. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello all, > > Can anyone tell me if there is a suitable replacement part for the > SBD1640T? It is a Center-Tapped Schottky Doubler made by General > Semiconductor. Obsolete. Vishay does offer similiar ones but I haven't > found one that is correct. Mouser doesn't carry anything similiar that > I found. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1124 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:34 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! richardlhess Offline Send Email At 10:07 AM 2007-02-22, ladewd wrote: >Someone may have tie wrapped a cable to tightly and when the back door >was lowered, it came unplugged. Its worth checking out before you >really get into the nuts and bolts. > Hi, Cary, Do you think it's possible that the header pin/connectors to the boards might corrode if they are moved at all (not loose, but oxidized in place)? If you think that's the case, then perhaps reseating all those connectors a few times with some sort of cleaner might be an easy thing to try. I'm also wondering if it's an audio problem or a data problem and the board isn't receiving the DAC setups from the CPU when it's plugged in. I forget if Ozzie is getting nothing or low level. What is the sequence of the polling of the board and what happens if it doesn't load on the first pass? Does that generate an error message? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1125 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:02 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...that was also my post a day or two back... seems most likely. Cary is right though... check the cables first. One that is half on / half off would do it too... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:17 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! This is sounding like a cold solder joint on the backplane -- or a dirty header connector -- Scott? At 02:15 AM 2007-02-19, you wrote: >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, Ozzie, > > > > Have you tried a card from your spare machine? You still have a spare > > machine, no? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > >Hi Richard, > >Good to hear from you. Yes, I tried both cards from my spare machine >with the same results. Typically, as I mentioned after reseating the >channel cards several times the channel starts to work. > >Regards, > >Ozzie > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1126 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:04 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, Once I get some down time I'll start with your recommended procedure. Ozzie --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Ozzie, > > To get to the back of the audio motherboard (ADM) you should take off > the bottom panel, and lower the back door on the machine, then you can > check that all the connectors from the I/O panel are connected and > seated properly. Its a bit of a jungle in there and the cables should > by tie wrapped pretty tightly. I would label the cables, although > later units had the connector numbers on the harness connectors. Its > almost impossible to read the connector numbers on the board itself, so > I would mark them anyway. > > Someone may have tie wrapped a cable to tightly and when the back door > was lowered, it came unplugged. Its worth checking out before you > really get into the nuts and bolts. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1127 From: "soundscapeaudio" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:11 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Finney, Thanks, that's what I was afraid of once I started looking. But your right, it shouldn't be too hard to retro-fit something to work and make it more reliable. Are there any specific diodes you recommend? I would most likely be looking/ordering from Mouser. Thanks, Tom --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "finney15" wrote: > > Tom, > > Nobody makes center-tapped Schottky doubler diodes in TO-220 package > anymore. Probably Shindengen in Japan still have some but they are > hard to get here in the states. You will just have to build your own > rectifier based on 4 schottky or fast soft recovery diodes in TO-220 > package. This is not necessarily a bad thing because now you can put > better heat sinks on the diodes, make them much more reliable than the > original ones. They will sound better as well. > > SBD1640T has a rating of 40V and 8A. You can find many good sounding > TO-220 diodes better than this spec. > > -finney > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" > wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > Can anyone tell me if there is a suitable replacement part for the > > SBD1640T? It is a Center-Tapped Schottky Doubler made by General > > Semiconductor. Obsolete. Vishay does offer similiar ones but I haven't > > found one that is correct. Mouser doesn't carry anything similiar that > > I found. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1128 From: "finney15" Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:46 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T finney15 Offline Send Email Hi Tom If you insist on Mouser then I think Fairchild Semi's Stealth diodes will be the best sounding choice. Either one will work: ISL9R860PF2 or ISL9R1560PF2 If their voltage drop is too much, (the V+ on the bridge output should be measured at +14V), use ON Semi's schottky diodes instead: MBR1045G or MBR1060G MBR1060G probably is your safest bet. Remember that you need 2 diodes for each SBD1640T. So what's your next step? Interested in APR modding? ;) -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Finney, > > Thanks, that's what I was afraid of once I started looking. But your > right, it shouldn't be too hard to retro-fit something to work and > make it more reliable. Are there any specific diodes you recommend? I > would most likely be looking/ordering from Mouser. > > Thanks, > Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1129 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:52 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Thank you very much Finney! I only suggest Mouser because that is who we order the most from at work. If you can recommend anyone else I am all ears. Hopefully clean ones.... I'm hoping I don't have to mod this unit too much if any after this one. We really just want to get it up and going. My studio partner got it free from a local TV station he worked at. Rescued it literally from being thrown in the dumpster. Hopefully my APR 5002 will arrive safe and sound later this coming week. I hope that there are no problems with it. We are planning on using either one of the APR's to mixdown from our Neotek console. Funny how we spent so much time and money investing in pro DAW's and now are moving to a hybrid of digital and analog. A longing for the faders and tape I guess. Or is it the sound.... Tom --- finney15 wrote: > > Hi Tom > > If you insist on Mouser then I think Fairchild > Semi's Stealth diodes > will be the best sounding choice. Either one will > work: > > ISL9R860PF2 > > or > > ISL9R1560PF2 > > If their voltage drop is too much, (the V+ on the > bridge output should > be measured at +14V), use ON Semi's schottky diodes > instead: > > MBR1045G > > or > > MBR1060G > > MBR1060G probably is your safest bet. Remember that > you need 2 diodes > for each SBD1640T. > > So what's your next step? Interested in APR modding? > ;) > > > > -finney > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" > wrote: > > > > Finney, > > > > Thanks, that's what I was afraid of once I started > looking. But your > > right, it shouldn't be too hard to retro-fit > something to work and > > make it more reliable. Are there any specific > diodes you recommend? I > > would most likely be looking/ordering from Mouser. > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1130 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:56 am Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ladewd Offline Send Email Usually if the data is not getting to the CNL card, it won't go into rec etc. If the card can switch from input to repro, the data is there. I've only seen one bad CNL card that brought down the whole audio system, and if you removed it, the machine worked fine. The pins and connectors are all gold, so while its possible they have an intermittent connection, its not likely they tarnished like the dreaded molex. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 10:07 AM 2007-02-22, ladewd wrote: > > >Someone may have tie wrapped a cable to tightly and when the back door > >was lowered, it came unplugged. Its worth checking out before you > >really get into the nuts and bolts. > > > > Hi, Cary, > > Do you think it's possible that the header pin/connectors to the > boards might corrode if they are moved at all (not loose, but > oxidized in place)? > > If you think that's the case, then perhaps reseating all those > connectors a few times with some sort of cleaner might be an easy thing to try. > > I'm also wondering if it's an audio problem or a data problem and the > board isn't receiving the DAC setups from the CPU when it's plugged > in. I forget if Ozzie is getting nothing or low level. > > What is the sequence of the polling of the board and what happens if > it doesn't load on the first pass? Does that generate an error message? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1131 From: "finney15" Date: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:12 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T finney15 Offline Send Email Hi Tom Digikey is another good place to go. I really like those Hexfred diodes yet Fairchild Stealth are equally good so Mouser will serve your need just fine. There's a beast hidding inside this APR box. You will be amazed to hear how good it sounds with a few simple mods to the CNL boards. Unfortunately this is not something pro studios would try that often. ;) The whole digital audio scene is based on the assumption that human ears are band limited devices at 20KHz which I believe is wrong. In other words, dgital format just does not have enough resolution in time domain. In the meantime, most digital audio data is transmitted in serial mode, i.e. left channel, right channel, then left channel, etc. Any jitter will cause extra phase shift between the two channels and human ears really do not like that. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Thank you very much Finney! I only suggest Mouser > because that is who we order the most from at work. If > you can recommend anyone else I am all ears. Hopefully > clean ones.... > > I'm hoping I don't have to mod this unit too much if > any after this one. We really just want to get it up > and going. My studio partner got it free from a local > TV station he worked at. Rescued it literally from > being thrown in the dumpster. > > Hopefully my APR 5002 will arrive safe and sound later > this coming week. I hope that there are no problems > with it. We are planning on using either one of the > APR's to mixdown from our Neotek console. Funny how we > spent so much time and money investing in pro DAW's > and now are moving to a hybrid of digital and analog. > A longing for the faders and tape I guess. Or is it > the sound.... > > Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1132 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:09 pm Subject: Re: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email I went ahead and ordered the recommended diodes you gave me. I am getting the Stealth and On just in case. As far as mods go, I'm willing to try anything that will make these sound better. I'm new to this group and to the APR's but really enjoy this type of work. Any mods you could point me towards I am very interested! Thanks again, Tom finney15 wrote: Hi Tom Digikey is another good place to go. I really like those Hexfred diodes yet Fairchild Stealth are equally good so Mouser will serve your need just fine. There's a beast hidding inside this APR box. You will be amazed to hear how good it sounds with a few simple mods to the CNL boards. Unfortunately this is not something pro studios would try that often. ;) The whole digital audio scene is based on the assumption that human ears are band limited devices at 20KHz which I believe is wrong. In other words, dgital format just does not have enough resolution in time domain. In the meantime, most digital audio data is transmitted in serial mode, i.e. left channel, right channel, then left channel, etc. Any jitter will cause extra phase shift between the two channels and human ears really do not like that. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Thank you very much Finney! I only suggest Mouser > because that is who we order the most from at work. If > you can recommend anyone else I am all ears. Hopefully > clean ones.... > > I'm hoping I don't have to mod this unit too much if > any after this one. We really just want to get it up > and going. My studio partner got it free from a local > TV station he worked at. Rescued it literally from > being thrown in the dumpster. > > Hopefully my APR 5002 will arrive safe and sound later > this coming week. I hope that there are no problems > with it. We are planning on using either one of the > APR's to mixdown from our Neotek console. Funny how we > spent so much time and money investing in pro DAW's > and now are moving to a hybrid of digital and analog. > A longing for the faders and tape I guess. Or is it > the sound.... > > Tom --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1133 From: "finney15" Date: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 pm Subject: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T finney15 Offline Send Email Be very careful when you are making your own bridge with those diodes. Hook it up with a spare transformer for test before you put it to the APR. If anything goes wrong, you will fry the machine. I'd suggest you try simple mods first. This usually means cap swap and op swap. Since you are on the power supply now, you may want to replace the output decoupling caps with better ones. Pay attention to the +-15V outputs. Depends on the model you have, it can be either RGD or RG-2 board. The output decoupling caps for 7915/7815 are simply too small. Try value like 47uf/25v, 100uf/25v, good capacitors such as Panasonic FC/FM or even BlackGate N. The small film caps need better ones, too. On the CNL board, the reproduction side, the cap C11 47uf/16v is the first one you want to get rid of. BlackGate FK or Elna Slimic paralleled with a film cap comes to my mind first. IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 5534/5532 OPs can be replaced with OPA627BP/LM4562, for instance. You may lose some warmness yet will gain a lot in details. You will be amazed! Anyway, the list can keep going and going. There are so many things you can do to this machine. The design is basically sound. It just needs a great power supply, lots of good parts to bring out the best of it. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > I went ahead and ordered the recommended diodes you gave me. I am getting the Stealth and On just in case. > > As far as mods go, I'm willing to try anything that will make these sound better. I'm new to this group and to the APR's but really enjoy this type of work. Any mods you could point me towards I am very interested! > > Thanks again, > Tom > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1134 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:57 am Subject: Re: Re: Replacement Part for SBD1640T soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Thank you very much, Finney. One of the questions I have is what is the best way to test the power supply? Being that it is "harnessed" do you just make jumpers from that and power it up to test it without powering on the whole unit? What I was going to do was make a set of leads for each critical part of the power supply to act as a test point. This would enable me to take measurements while powering up the entire machine. But I would prefer to just make jumpers from the cabling and test the power supply before actually installing it. Is there a better way? Tom --- finney15 wrote: > Be very careful when you are making your own bridge > with those diodes. > Hook it up with a spare transformer for test before > you put it to the > APR. If anything goes wrong, you will fry the > machine. > > I'd suggest you try simple mods first. This usually > means cap swap and > op swap. Since you are on the power supply now, you > may want to > replace the output decoupling caps with better ones. > Pay attention to > the +-15V outputs. Depends on the model you have, it > can be either RGD > or RG-2 board. The output decoupling caps for > 7915/7815 are simply too > small. Try value like 47uf/25v, 100uf/25v, good > capacitors such as > Panasonic FC/FM or even BlackGate N. The small film > caps need better > ones, too. > > On the CNL board, the reproduction side, the cap C11 > 47uf/16v is the > first one you want to get rid of. BlackGate FK or > Elna Slimic > paralleled with a film cap comes to my mind first. > IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 > 5534/5532 OPs can be replaced with OPA627BP/LM4562, > for instance. You > may lose some warmness yet will gain a lot in > details. You will be > amazed! Anyway, the list can keep going and going. > There are so many > things you can do to this machine. The design is > basically sound. It > just needs a great power supply, lots of good parts > to bring out the > best of it. > > -finney > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > wrote: > > > > I went ahead and ordered the recommended diodes > you gave me. I am > getting the Stealth and On just in case. > > > > As far as mods go, I'm willing to try anything > that will make > these sound better. I'm new to this group and to the > APR's but really > enjoy this type of work. Any mods you could point me > towards I am very > interested! > > > > Thanks again, > > Tom > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1135 From: "soundscapeaudio" Date: Sat Mar 3, 2007 5:47 pm Subject: Power Supply Caps soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Anyone have any suggestions for a good source on the large power caps? Mouser carries all but one, however, I did find one that I can substitute. My concern is that newer caps don't always handle the inrush like the older caps did. I usually replace a 50VDC with something ten or more volts rating. I'm concerned though with the space available. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1136 From: "Thomas W. Bethel" Date: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:31 am Subject: Re: Power Supply Caps audiopro2000... Offline Send Email DigiKey http://www.digikey.com/ ESI http://www.electronicsurplus.com/ nice people and good stock of parts ( I have been dealing with them since 1957) If it is for an older machine with hi voltage caps then you can check with http://www.tubesandmore.com/ http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsElectrolytic.html also has a lot of parts in stock. Do a search on the WWW there are lots of places that stock caps. Certain caps can be harder to find but so far I have been able to find them all it just takes some detective work. Also pickup a copy of Nuts and Volts magazine there are LOTS of distributors that advertise in that magazine. Best of luck! -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 440-775-3681 www.acoustikmusik.com soundscapeaudio wrote: > > > Anyone have any suggestions for a good source on the large power caps? > Mouser carries all > but one, however, I did find one that I can substitute. My concern is > that newer caps don't > always handle the inrush like the older caps did. I usually replace a > 50VDC with something > ten or more volts rating. I'm concerned though with the space available. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1137 From: Justin Foley Date: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:49 pm Subject: Mystery drawer jjfregistration Offline Send Email Hello, I've come across an audio drawer from a 110 machine. As I've never really looked at a 110A, I'm not sure if that's where this drawer is from. The dots on the Cal dials are the only obvious difference from the drawers on my 110 C machines (other than the lack of a remote toggle). Could someone who's familiar with the difference between the electronics on the machines take a quick look at the link below and tell me if it's from an A or B? http://www.austerityprogram.com/general_files/drawer.htm Thanks in advance, = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1138 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:18 pm Subject: RE: Mystery drawer ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email It is from a 110B or possibly a C, I can't see well enough to tell. Not an A, that is for sure... the card compliment is very different for an A. -- Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Foley Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:49 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Mystery drawer Hello, I've come across an audio drawer from a 110 machine. As I've never really looked at a 110A, I'm not sure if that's where this drawer is from. The dots on the Cal dials are the only obvious difference from the drawers on my 110 C machines (other than the lack of a remote toggle). Could someone who's familiar with the difference between the electronics on the machines take a quick look at the link below and tell me if it's from an A or B? http://www.austerityprogram.com/general_files/drawer.htm Thanks in advance, = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1139 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:59 pm Subject: Nesco Food Dehydrator Convert-A-Tray available again richardlhess Offline Send Email This is a minor, nuts-and-bolts detail. The Nesco line of American Harvest food dehydrators is widely used for baking sticky-shed-syndrome tapes. One of the inconveniences of them is that while they appear almost purpose-built for 10.5-inch reels, they do not do well with 7-inch reels. The Convert-A-Tray accessory solves this to a great extent, allowing the centre ring to be removed and in essence providing a double-ring-high space for placing tapes. I have used two pairs of these for years. I balance the other side of the reels on stacks of NAB hubs. I was in need of a second dehydrator to bake moldy tapes and in the course of trying to find one locally (Home Hardware in Aurora had an FD60 in stock) I discovered that the Convert-A-Tray was back in stock so I ordered in another two pairs. I thought those of you who might have missed a previous opportunity to purchase these might be interested. Even better than that, they appear to be at a reduced price. http://www.nesco.com/products/?category=300&subcat=200&id=33 I am currently running a thermal test on the new dehydrator, but the old one kept the temperature constant within +/- 1 degree Celsius over three hours. That was based on 3-minute samples. I'm running the new one on 15-second samples with no thermal mass inside the unit. Enjoy! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1140 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:21 pm Subject: Re: Nesco Food Dehydrator Convert-A-Tray available again eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thank you, Richard, I am glad to hear the dehydrator is still meeting with approval, especially yours. It may interest everyone to know that "Mister Nesco" is a former radio person - not sure exactly what he did, but when I spoke with him several years ago he claimed he had a box of tapes to bake. I believe I still have his contact info - and while I'm sure y'all could find him on your own, I'd be happy to forward any ideas and suggestions. Ours is a very small part of his biz, but I'd be curious to know how many of you have a Nesco / American Harvest Dehydrator - If there are enough of us, it might help "convince" him. Keep in mind that it would be helpful if mods for us might have dual-purpose for the wider food-dehydrating market. eddie c. L. Hess wrote: > > This is a minor, nuts-and-bolts detail. The Nesco line of American > Harvest food dehydrators is widely used for baking > sticky-shed-syndrome tapes. One of the inconveniences of them is that > while they appear almost purpose-built for 10.5-inch reels, they do > not do well with 7-inch reels. The Convert-A-Tray accessory solves > this to a great extent, allowing the centre ring to be removed and in > essence providing a double-ring-high space for placing tapes. I have > used two pairs of these for years. I balance the other side of the > reels on stacks of NAB hubs. > > I was in need of a second dehydrator to bake moldy tapes and in the > course of trying to find one locally (Home Hardware in Aurora had an > FD60 in stock) I discovered that the Convert-A-Tray was back in stock > so I ordered in another two pairs. > > I thought those of you who might have missed a previous opportunity > to purchase these might be interested. Even better than that, they > appear to be at a reduced price. > > http://www.nesco.com/products/?category=300&subcat=200&id=33 > > > I am currently running a thermal test on the new dehydrator, but the > old one kept the temperature constant within +/- 1 degree Celsius > over three hours. That was based on 3-minute samples. I'm running the > new one on 15-second samples with no thermal mass inside the unit. > > Enjoy! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1141 From: AudioSynergy Date: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:19 am Subject: Re: Nesco Food Dehydrator Convert-A-Tray available again audiosynergy Offline Send Email Sounds Great to Me ............ Brilliant ......... I;m In AudioSynergy! On 22/03/2007, at 9:21 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > Thank you, Richard, > > I am glad to hear the dehydrator is still meeting with approval, > especially yours. It may interest everyone to know that "Mister Nesco" > is a former radio person - not sure exactly what he did, but when I > spoke with him several years ago he claimed he had a box of tapes to > bake. I believe I still have his contact info - and while I'm sure > y'all could find him on your own, I'd be happy to forward any ideas > and > suggestions. Ours is a very small part of his biz, but I'd be curious > to know how many of you have a Nesco / American Harvest Dehydrator > - If > there are enough of us, it might help "convince" him. Keep in mind > that > it would be helpful if mods for us might have dual-purpose for the > wider > food-dehydrating market. > > eddie c. > > L. Hess wrote: > > > > This is a minor, nuts-and-bolts detail. The Nesco line of American > > Harvest food dehydrators is widely used for baking > > sticky-shed-syndrome tapes. One of the inconveniences of them is > that > > while they appear almost purpose-built for 10.5-inch reels, they do > > not do well with 7-inch reels. The Convert-A-Tray accessory solves > > this to a great extent, allowing the centre ring to be removed > and in > > essence providing a double-ring-high space for placing tapes. I have > > used two pairs of these for years. I balance the other side of the > > reels on stacks of NAB hubs. > > > > I was in need of a second dehydrator to bake moldy tapes and in the > > course of trying to find one locally (Home Hardware in Aurora had an > > FD60 in stock) I discovered that the Convert-A-Tray was back in > stock > > so I ordered in another two pairs. > > > > I thought those of you who might have missed a previous opportunity > > to purchase these might be interested. Even better than that, they > > appear to be at a reduced price. > > > > http://www.nesco.com/products/?category=300&subcat=200&id=33 > > > > > > I am currently running a thermal test on the new dehydrator, but the > > old one kept the temperature constant within +/- 1 degree Celsius > > over three hours. That was based on 3-minute samples. I'm running > the > > new one on 15-second samples with no thermal mass inside the unit. > > > > Enjoy! > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1142 From: Jim Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 4:30 pm Subject: FS: MCI JH-24 8 channel rack R/P electronics analogb@... Send Email Greetings, We had purchased this a few years ago to add 8 channels to our JH-24-16, but had decided against the project. The rack is complete except for the Tuchel audio I/O connectors that had been cut off before we got it. It was stated to be fully working when removed, but as we have not tested this, I can't verify. Please see photos at: http://www.analogbros.com/pictures/MCI/ Any reasonable offers will be considered, we had paid quite a lot for this, but the market was very different then. The unit is located in Bucks County, PA. 18938. Please reply OFF LIST to: analogb@... TIA! Regards, Jim Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1143 From: Harrison Blake Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 10:00 pm Subject: Re: Mystery drawer hsblake101 Offline Send Email The balanced I/O cards tell me it's a B. The A had transformer I/O. B is pretty much the same as C. H.S.Blake Xanadu Audio Prods. Big Bear Lake, CA USA Justin Foley wrote: Hello, I've come across an audio drawer from a 110 machine. As I've never really looked at a 110A, I'm not sure if that's where this drawer is from. The dots on the Cal dials are the only obvious difference from the drawers on my 110 C machines (other than the lack of a remote toggle). Could someone who's familiar with the difference between the electronics on the machines take a quick look at the link below and tell me if it's from an A or B? http://www.austerityprogram.com/general_files/drawer.htm Thanks in advance, = Justin --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1144 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 8, 2007 4:54 pm Subject: Playback shootout... richardlhess Offline Send Email For those of you not on the Studer list, I thought I'd provide a brief summary of a tape playback shootout that I did yesterday. The machines: Sony APR-5003V with Applied Magnetics wideface heads. Studer A810 with 75% or better 1.317.626 play head, transformerless output cards Studer A80 with new 1.317.626 play head The recordings, both were stereo 15 in/s. Dolby A original master of "A Concert in Memory of Benjamin Britten" I recorded on a ReVox A77 on 1977-12-04 Non Dolby pro recorded piano concert original master The good news is that all three playbacks were well within the range of professional. All were excellent. The A810 and the APR were virtually indistinguishable. The surprise (but not to my friend who suggested I do this) was that the A80 sounded more open and had better imaging than either the A810 or the APR. Not a huge difference, but enough to convince me to adopt the A80 for my high-quality music transfers. I see why many mastering engineers use the A80. The APR and A80 are still problem solvers and I have a wide variety of head assemblies for them. But the bulk of the high-quality work I see is 1/4-inch 15/30 so while this machine is currently 7.5/15 I'm going to swap out the capstan motor (I bought a new old stock 15/30 motor) and since NAB 7.5 and 15 EQ are the same, I'll add another divide-by-two flip flop on the motor card and get a three-speed machine. You can tell I'm excited. Amazing how a machine designed in the 1960s can be so good. I was amazed to see that variants of the A80 were in production from 1967-1988--21 years is not a shabby run. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1145 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Apr 8, 2007 8:49 pm Subject: Re: Playback shootout... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard Is your A80 all discrete? or a hybrid of discrete and opamps? eddie ciletti > > For those of you not on the Studer list, I thought I'd provide a > brief summary of a tape playback shootout that I did yesterday. > > The machines: > Sony APR-5003V with Applied Magnetics wideface heads. > Studer A810 with 75% or better 1.317.626 play head, transformerless > output cards > Studer A80 with new 1.317.626 play head > > The recordings, both were stereo 15 in/s. > Dolby A original master of "A Concert in Memory of Benjamin Britten" > I recorded on a ReVox A77 on 1977-12-04 > Non Dolby pro recorded piano concert original master > > The good news is that all three playbacks were well within the range > of professional. All were excellent. > > The A810 and the APR were virtually indistinguishable. The surprise > (but not to my friend who suggested I do this) was that the A80 > sounded more open and had better imaging than either the A810 or the > APR. Not a huge difference, but enough to convince me to adopt the > A80 for my high-quality music transfers. I see why many mastering > engineers use the A80. > > The APR and A80 are still problem solvers and I have a wide variety > of head assemblies for them. But the bulk of the high-quality work I > see is 1/4-inch 15/30 so while this machine is currently 7.5/15 I'm > going to swap out the capstan motor (I bought a new old stock 15/30 > motor) and since NAB 7.5 and 15 EQ are the same, I'll add another > divide-by-two flip flop on the motor card and get a three-speed machine. > > You can tell I'm excited. Amazing how a machine designed in the 1960s > can be so good. I was amazed to see that variants of the A80 were in > production from 1967-1988--21 years is not a shabby run. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1146 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 8, 2007 9:59 pm Subject: My A80RCs richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Eddie (and others) have asked me for a better description of my A80RCs. These are the compact version that were made for radio use and have the discrete electronics under the transport behind the front drop-down drawer. There are no ICs in the audio. There is a Studer custom "op amp" that has taken a variety of forms. On all my working play cards, this is a small PC board with discrete components on it. In looking at the circuitry, it is quite discrete and very simple. I obtained 3.5 mono machines...and a few play cards were missing to start with, but I found two more. I also got a NOS 15/30 capstan motor that I haven't installed yet (all the machines are 7.5/15 so I have four used of those capstan motors). It is my understanding that the circuitry is essentially the same as the B62. The meter panels (mono) were essentially the B67 meter panel, but I've opted not to bother with them as I can use the metering in the PC when I have it connected. Also, the meters in this machine bridge the audio output line without buffers, so why ask for degradation? The A80R and A80RC are these simple machines. The A80VU is the one with the complex snap-on calibration "pod" and many more of the Studer "op amps" plus some ICs, I THINK. There is lots of back and forth over which is the better machine. At least in this marginally careful shootout, while the differences were small, they were important and noticeable enough that I'll try and do all the serious music mastering work on the A80. It is also interesting to note that there is an output transformer in the A80RC and that the A810 and the APR use a bunch of 5534-type ICs in the audio path. Also the A810 and the APR use electronic setup adjustments, adding yet another chip to the audio path. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1147 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 5:01 am Subject: Re: My A80RCs eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard I suspect it is the simplicity of the audio path, so that may be the primary contributor. On the Psycho-acoustics angle, perhaps the transformer also adds a little "resonance" in the frequency range that tickles the imaging. eddie c > Hello, > > Eddie (and others) have asked me for a better description of my A80RCs. > > These are the compact version that were made for radio use and have > the discrete electronics under the transport behind the front > drop-down drawer. > > There are no ICs in the audio. There is a Studer custom "op amp" that > has taken a variety of forms. On all my working play cards, this is a > small PC board with discrete components on it. > > In looking at the circuitry, it is quite discrete and very simple. I > obtained 3.5 mono machines...and a few play cards were missing to > start with, but I found two more. I also got a NOS 15/30 capstan > motor that I haven't installed yet (all the machines are 7.5/15 so I > have four used of those capstan motors). > > It is my understanding that the circuitry is essentially the same as > the B62. The meter panels (mono) were essentially the B67 meter > panel, but I've opted not to bother with them as I can use the > metering in the PC when I have it connected. Also, the meters in this > machine bridge the audio output line without buffers, so why ask for > degradation? > > The A80R and A80RC are these simple machines. The A80VU is the one > with the complex snap-on calibration "pod" and many more of the > Studer "op amps" plus some ICs, I THINK. > > There is lots of back and forth over which is the better machine. At > least in this marginally careful shootout, while the differences were > small, they were important and noticeable enough that I'll try and do > all the serious music mastering work on the A80. > > It is also interesting to note that there is an output transformer in > the A80RC and that the A810 and the APR use a bunch of 5534-type ICs > in the audio path. > > Also the A810 and the APR use electronic setup adjustments, adding > yet another chip to the audio path. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1148 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 1:51 am Subject: Re: My A80RCs radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Does anyone on the Studer list have access to or recollections about the Mark Levinson mod'ed A80's? When I first met him -- circa 2002 -- he was still using a 4-track 1" version . . . before he switched to DSD. The other discrete electronics recorder that might be interesting to compare would be the Stellamaster. Waterlily uses one as does Kostas Metaxas in Melbourne. Kostas has done extensive modifications on his versions. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1149 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 7:08 am Subject: Re: My A80RCs radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Details -- such as they are -- on the ML-5 are here: _www.marklev.com/ML5_ (http://www.marklev.com/ML5) And the Stellamaster (still available from JP Gurtner as mod'ed SM8) can be found here: _www.audioprojpg.com/ofers.html_ (http://www.audioprojpg.com/ofers.html) Metaxas' recording setup is described here: _www.reel2reel.tv/pages/about.htm_ (http://www.reel2reel.tv/pages/about.htm) Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1150 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 3:53 pm Subject: Re: Playback shootout... paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Great. Thanks, Richard. Now I'm depressed and have A80 envy. For those of us who don't have much money (and, in my case, can't honestly justify depriving someone truly deserving of a vintage Studer), a quick search shows prices for A80s ranging about 5-6 times as much as I paid for my very good condition APR5003v 1/4" 2-track. I also came across a very nice frequency response curve for the APR 5000 1/2" 2-track at 15ips, which I have posted in the Photos section (along with the 30ips response curve). Pretty much the flattest 15ips response curve of any of 16 of the more famous machines used. Measured and posted by Jack Endino, producer and engineer of Sub Pop fame (Nirvana, Soundgarden) at http://www.endino.com/graphs/index.html . His comment: " The Sony APR-5000 half-inch 2-track. I love mixing to this thing at 15 IPS. Can you see why?" Yes, Jack. I can. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > For those of you not on the Studer list, I thought I'd provide a > brief summary of a tape playback shootout that I did yesterday. > > The machines: > Sony APR-5003V with Applied Magnetics wideface heads. > Studer A810 with 75% or better 1.317.626 play head, transformerless > output cards > Studer A80 with new 1.317.626 play head > > The recordings, both were stereo 15 in/s. > Dolby A original master of "A Concert in Memory of Benjamin Britten" > I recorded on a ReVox A77 on 1977-12-04 > Non Dolby pro recorded piano concert original master > > The good news is that all three playbacks were well within the range > of professional. All were excellent. > > The A810 and the APR were virtually indistinguishable. The surprise > (but not to my friend who suggested I do this) was that the A80 > sounded more open and had better imaging than either the A810 or the > APR. Not a huge difference, but enough to convince me to adopt the > A80 for my high-quality music transfers. I see why many mastering > engineers use the A80. > > The APR and A80 are still problem solvers and I have a wide variety > of head assemblies for them. But the bulk of the high-quality work I > see is 1/4-inch 15/30 so while this machine is currently 7.5/15 I'm > going to swap out the capstan motor (I bought a new old stock 15/30 > motor) and since NAB 7.5 and 15 EQ are the same, I'll add another > divide-by-two flip flop on the motor card and get a three-speed machine. > > You can tell I'm excited. Amazing how a machine designed in the 1960s > can be so good. I was amazed to see that variants of the A80 were in > production from 1967-1988--21 years is not a shabby run. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1151 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 6:03 pm Subject: RE: My A80RCs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I have to agree with Eddie on this one, on both counts. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 3:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My A80RCs Richard I suspect it is the simplicity of the audio path, so that may be the primary contributor. On the Psycho-acoustics angle, perhaps the transformer also adds a little "resonance" in the frequency range that tickles the imaging. eddie c > Hello, > > Eddie (and others) have asked me for a better description of my A80RCs. > > These are the compact version that were made for radio use and have > the discrete electronics under the transport behind the front > drop-down drawer. > > There are no ICs in the audio. There is a Studer custom "op amp" that > has taken a variety of forms. On all my working play cards, this is a > small PC board with discrete components on it. > > In looking at the circuitry, it is quite discrete and very simple. I > obtained 3.5 mono machines...and a few play cards were missing to > start with, but I found two more. I also got a NOS 15/30 capstan > motor that I haven't installed yet (all the machines are 7.5/15 so I > have four used of those capstan motors). > > It is my understanding that the circuitry is essentially the same as > the B62. The meter panels (mono) were essentially the B67 meter > panel, but I've opted not to bother with them as I can use the > metering in the PC when I have it connected. Also, the meters in this > machine bridge the audio output line without buffers, so why ask for > degradation? > > The A80R and A80RC are these simple machines. The A80VU is the one > with the complex snap-on calibration "pod" and many more of the > Studer "op amps" plus some ICs, I THINK. > > There is lots of back and forth over which is the better machine. At > least in this marginally careful shootout, while the differences were > small, they were important and noticeable enough that I'll try and do > all the serious music mastering work on the A80. > > It is also interesting to note that there is an output transformer in > the A80RC and that the A810 and the APR use a bunch of 5534-type ICs > in the audio path. > > Also the A810 and the APR use electronic setup adjustments, adding > yet another chip to the audio path. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1152 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 2:03 pm Subject: Re: Re: Playback shootout... radsimple Offline Send Email Hello: This is probably obvious but flatness =/= "musical" -- Does Not Equal -- mostly because the extra circuitry in the audio path that achieves that flatness apparently otherwise alters the sound. The Nagra TA is probably the flattest analog studio R2R ever measured but it is rarely described as the "best" sounding machine. It doesn't have to be, since it was largely used as post-production playback for tapes made on the Nagra IV STC. This is why most TA machines on eBay have time code installed and don't have NAB hubs (i.e. they were used to play 7" reels.) Accordingly few appear to have been used as studio master recorders. Nagra TA's also tend to sell for more than Studer A80's . . . go figure! Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1153 From: "finney15" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 6:25 pm Subject: Re: My A80RCs finney15 Offline Send Email Well, I beg to differ here. A80's repro amp is really not that simple. The EQ, etc, is fairly complicated in fact. The signal path still have several coupling capacitors. Not even to mention the diffculty on matching those transistors 30 years back. I think it's all about the heads. Since the recordings were done on A77, they would simply sound better on A80. Heads frequency response has never been flat, even after being extensively EQ'ed. Playback and recording heads with similar construct simply have better synergy, that's it. A more fair comparison is to have A810/APR do the recording/playback and A80 do the recording/playback. Definitely not something easy to do. Still, I agree that the output transfomer does sweeten up the sound. -finney --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Richard, > > I have to agree with Eddie on this one, on both counts. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 3:01 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] My A80RCs > > > > Richard > > I suspect it is the simplicity of the audio path, so that may be the > primary contributor. On the Psycho-acoustics angle, perhaps the > transformer also adds a little "resonance" in the frequency range that > tickles the imaging. > > eddie c > > > Hello, > > > > Eddie (and others) have asked me for a better description of my > A80RCs. > > > > These are the compact version that were made for radio use and have > > the discrete electronics under the transport behind the front > > drop-down drawer. > > > > There are no ICs in the audio. There is a Studer custom "op amp" that > > has taken a variety of forms. On all my working play cards, this is a > > small PC board with discrete components on it. > > > > In looking at the circuitry, it is quite discrete and very simple. I > > obtained 3.5 mono machines...and a few play cards were missing to > > start with, but I found two more. I also got a NOS 15/30 capstan > > motor that I haven't installed yet (all the machines are 7.5/15 so I > > have four used of those capstan motors). > > > > It is my understanding that the circuitry is essentially the same as > > the B62. The meter panels (mono) were essentially the B67 meter > > panel, but I've opted not to bother with them as I can use the > > metering in the PC when I have it connected. Also, the meters in this > > machine bridge the audio output line without buffers, so why ask for > > degradation? > > > > The A80R and A80RC are these simple machines. The A80VU is the one > > with the complex snap-on calibration "pod" and many more of the > > Studer "op amps" plus some ICs, I THINK. > > > > There is lots of back and forth over which is the better machine. At > > least in this marginally careful shootout, while the differences were > > small, they were important and noticeable enough that I'll try and do > > all the serious music mastering work on the A80. > > > > It is also interesting to note that there is an output transformer in > > the A80RC and that the A810 and the APR use a bunch of 5534-type ICs > > in the audio path. > > > > Also the A810 and the APR use electronic setup adjustments, adding > > yet another chip to the audio path. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1154 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 8:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: My A80RCs richardlhess Offline Send Email Some minor corrections for those following this thread as a recent post introduced some confusion to my test process. Also, to clarify, my business model is playing other people's tapes that were recorded on unknown machines. I am looking for the absolute best playback possible in some instances and merely looking to recover intelligible speaking in other instances. Sometimes, the latter is more of a challenge. It has been my experience that most recorders actually record better than they reproduce. Therefore, using the most transparent reproducer is usually the best choice. I am not interested in the record performance for my tape machines as it is of no interest for my business. When I do record, I use my laptop and back up to DAT off the main stereo mic pair. One of the two tapes was made on an A77, the other was possibly made on an A810. The second tape was a major radio broadcaster's field tape, and they widely used DIN-headed A810s. This was a DIN tape, but it was played with NAB heads on all three machines. The A77 had NAB heads. The A810 used for playback and the A80 used for playback had the exact same model reproduce head in it. The APR had the Applied Magnetics "wideface" heads and not the more common Woelke. And as to another post: I'm not attempting to make any APR owners unhappy, as I will happily continue to use my APRs and A810s for many projects. They are indeed excellent sounding machines. The APRs are extremely flexible and I've done some very odd things with them -- including making a 6.5 mm wide full--track mono head assembly for WWII vintage German tape that was 6.5 mm wide not 1/4 inch (which is approx 6.35 mm). I got my A80s for a very, very good price, not the prices you see on eBay--but I did go through a half can of Formula 409 wipes before I did anything else--and that was on one machine. The lot included three machines that can probably all be made to work, although I only got a total of two PB cards. I've since acquired another two PB cards. These were all mono machines, hence my need to put the A810 stereo head into one A80 head assembly. In addition, I got several NOS brake assemblies and a NOS 15/30 capstan motor as well as a fourth carcass containing all three motors and other major assemblies, but no PSU. I have potentially located a full-blown stereo machine and am in negotiations with the owner. So that will probably have me set considering the maintainability of these machines. Long-term Sony APR and Studer A810 maintainability is a bit scary, especially considering that Sony has no more parts as I understand it. Some people had suggested I standardize on Ampex AG-350s or AG-440s for long-term survivability. It seems that the A80 is as rebuildable as the AG-350 or AG-440 but offers higher performance. For those of you who have only one or two APRs, keep your eyes open for one or two more if you're in this long-term, and then you should be set. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1155 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 10:35 pm Subject: The R-R shootout... richardlhess Offline Send Email An aside--the A80RC uses B62 electronics. I have heard lots of rumours about how this happened, but the truth of the matter is that the B62, A80R, A80RC, and the A81 (B-wind) all have the same repro amp (at least). For anyone interested in listening to the files, have at it. They will be up for a few more days, but not forever. http://www.richardhess.net/clients/client_9/data/ username: client_9 password: rimoress Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1156 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 9:47 pm Subject: Re: Re: Richard's A80RCs allegrosound Offline Send Email I concur with Richard on this one. Most R2R's record very well at 15-ips; finding a deck with equally-good playback has been a quest at AllegroSound for 40 yrs. Tapes played on a better deck will sound better; however, it's important the track-width of the play-head match the track-width of the tape (ditto, of course, for the equalization). IMO, Sony APR (early 5003 w/stock heads) is better than most, including all the Studers I've heard (great transports, lousy-sounding electronics; C37 & B62 are the exceptions, but these typically have IEC 2.75mm Wide-Track heads, which should not be used to play 2.00mm NAB tapes). Vintage decks have better-sounding electronics (Ampex MR-70, for example), but non-servo transports stretch modern polyester tape (AllegroSound was first to identify this problem, which is even worse than having less-than-glorious sound). Go analog! . --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1157 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:44 am Subject: Re: Playback shootout... paulmcculloh Offline Send Email I was just kidding around, Richard. Seriously, I truly appreciate your sharing this, and for letting us download the files. It is always good and helpful to have more/accurate information! Regarding flatness <> musical, Mark, hmm, yes. That thought passed through my mind even as I typed, but I successfully ignored it and pushed ahead, in hopes that perhaps the idea that flatness might somehow = accuracy or something like that? Something good and decent and honourable? I have no idea what I'm talking about (as Mr. Ciletti will attest...). I really should just shut up and listen, but I just found it humorous that Richard would post on his Group that he's going to quit using the machine that is the basis for the Group! I'm still kidding around, here, Richard! I know that's not what you really said, and more importantly, not what you meant. I just couldn't resist. In seriousness, I appreciate all of the comments that have been posted. I love this group. I eat this stuff up. The idea that the circuitry that achieves the flatness alters the sound -- so obvious that this would have to be the case -- but not something I had gotten around to thinking about yet! Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great machine and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] Ahem! Carry on, gentlemen. Pay no attention to the blithering idiot in the corner. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@... wrote: > > Hello: > > This is probably obvious but flatness =/= "musical" -- Does Not Equal -- > mostly because the extra circuitry in the audio path that achieves that flatness > apparently otherwise alters the sound. > > The Nagra TA is probably the flattest analog studio R2R ever measured but it > is rarely described as the "best" sounding machine. It doesn't have to be, > since it was largely used as post-production playback for tapes made on the > Nagra IV STC. This is why most TA machines on eBay have time code installed > and don't have NAB hubs (i.e. they were used to play 7" reels.) Accordingly > few appear to have been used as studio master recorders. > > Nagra TA's also tend to sell for more than Studer A80's . . . go figure! > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1158 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:32 pm Subject: Re: Re: Playback shootout... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great >machine It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of my house). >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR that it sounded too digital. I shared the shootout information because as those who have downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do reverse play, among other things. There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used something other than the mic that came with it. Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all be happy at how close the three machines really are. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1159 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:12 pm Subject: Re: Re: Playback shootout... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard et al, While I've done no shoot-outs, teaching students about "analog recording" using a Studer A-827 is not what I remember analog tape sounding like in the pre-digital era. I've aligned and used various multi-tracks - AMPEX MM-1000 and MM-1200, Studer A 80 and A-800, Otari MTR-90 and various MCI machines. I have always initiated the record alignment process by adjusting the bias whilst listening to 40Hz playback (and switching between input and repro). It is always a revelation - it can even tell you when something in the tape path is magnetized. The large-gap record heads of the earlier machines had a very narrow bias window where the low frequency distortion was minimized (and barely), especially at 30IPS. I can only guess that the Studer A-827's head material, narrow gap record head (essentially a playback head), very low-distortion bias oscillator and bias distribution network must contribute to the lack of low frequency grunge. (Mike Spitz told me that the A-827 head material is very hard and that is a big part of the sound.) As Richard said, I would expect that to move toward the "analog sound of tape" we remember, it would take using elevated level on a "soft" old-fashioned tape to get into the ballpark. I think shoot-outs are great and I look forward to listening to Richard's samples. I know this is a tape forum but I've just finished repairing a pair of AKG C24 mics. Here's the comparison. > At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: > > >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great > >machine > > It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines > ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari > MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of > my house). > > >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, > >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] > > While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring > an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at > 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is > just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. > > One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he > first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he > increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other > hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR > that it sounded too digital. > > I shared the shootout information because as those who have > downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among > the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well > against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some > venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! > > Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the > Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are > the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the > play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the > A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them > outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head > blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s > as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my > business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to > sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack > of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of > them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to > replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they > are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them > relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do > reverse play, among other things. > > There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and > certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport > were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones > mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent > machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" > thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the > other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly > well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used > something other than the mic that came with it. > > Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in > the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all > be happy at how close the three machines really are. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1160 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:44 pm Subject: RE: Re: Playback shootout... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email As one of the MANY folk that had a hand in bringing the APR series to market, I'm proud that we could get it into such good company as the ATR-100 (my personal favorite sonically) and the Studer A80/A820. I was never too awful crazy about the APR's form factor, and I would have rather had active tension sensing on both sides of the capstan motor. That said, I think that the other 3 machines each had issues of one sort or another as well. 'Taint no free lunch.... you pick your poison. Much as I love an ATR-100, the transport would scare the living daylights out of me for a valuable and splice ridden archival tape. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:32 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Playback shootout... At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great >machine It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of my house). >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR that it sounded too digital. I shared the shootout information because as those who have downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do reverse play, among other things. There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used something other than the mic that came with it. Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all be happy at how close the three machines really are. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1161 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:53 pm Subject: RE: Re: Playback shootout... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I always found that the tape itself, that is the formulation and manufacturer, had a good deal to do with how much low end grunge there was as well. Myself, I use 10khz and 40 hz both to look at bias settings, but looking for different things. One is better than the other (IMHO anyway) at pointing out a poor batch of tape, while the other was better for setting on good batch of tape..... What is your opinion Eddie ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 12:13 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Playback shootout... Richard et al, While I've done no shoot-outs, teaching students about "analog recording" using a Studer A-827 is not what I remember analog tape sounding like in the pre-digital era. I've aligned and used various multi-tracks - AMPEX MM-1000 and MM-1200, Studer A 80 and A-800, Otari MTR-90 and various MCI machines. I have always initiated the record alignment process by adjusting the bias whilst listening to 40Hz playback (and switching between input and repro). It is always a revelation - it can even tell you when something in the tape path is magnetized. The large-gap record heads of the earlier machines had a very narrow bias window where the low frequency distortion was minimized (and barely), especially at 30IPS. I can only guess that the Studer A-827's head material, narrow gap record head (essentially a playback head), very low-distortion bias oscillator and bias distribution network must contribute to the lack of low frequency grunge. (Mike Spitz told me that the A-827 head material is very hard and that is a big part of the sound.) As Richard said, I would expect that to move toward the "analog sound of tape" we remember, it would take using elevated level on a "soft" old-fashioned tape to get into the ballpark. I think shoot-outs are great and I look forward to listening to Richard's samples. I know this is a tape forum but I've just finished repairing a pair of AKG C24 mics. Here's the comparison. > > At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: > > >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great > >machine > > It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines > ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari > MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of > my house). > > >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, > >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] > > While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring > an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at > 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is > just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. > > One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he > first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he > increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other > hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR > that it sounded too digital. > > I shared the shootout information because as those who have > downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among > the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well > against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some > venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! > > Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the > Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are > the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the > play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the > A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them > outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head > blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s > as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my > business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to > sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack > of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of > them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to > replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they > are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them > relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do > reverse play, among other things. > > There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and > certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport > were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones > mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent > machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" > thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the > other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly > well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used > something other than the mic that came with it. > > Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in > the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all > be happy at how close the three machines really are. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1162 From: "Rick@..." Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: Playback shootout... allegrosound Offline Send Email Fairchild IsoLoop? Got pics? "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great >machine It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of my house). >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR that it sounded too digital. I shared the shootout information because as those who have downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do reverse play, among other things. There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used something other than the mic that came with it. Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all be happy at how close the three machines really are. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1163 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:43 pm Subject: Re: Re: Playback shootout... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott I always start with 40Hz and adjust bias for the most sonically pure signal. I did this by ear for years, aided by a high pass filter to remove the fundamental. Now I have the luxury of the NTI Minilyzer so I can see mostly the third harmonic on the spectrum analyzer and read the THD as well. I then go to 10kHz @ 15IPS or 20kHz @ 30 IPS and back off the bias to find and make note of the peak. For a multitrack, I'll average a few tracks for better accuracy. I'll then use that over-bias amount. eddie > I always found that the tape itself, that is the formulation and > manufacturer, had a good deal to do with how much low end grunge there > was as well. Myself, I use 10khz and 40 hz both to look at bias > settings, but looking for different things. One is better than the other > (IMHO anyway) at pointing out a poor batch of tape, while the other was > better for setting on good batch of tape..... > > What is your opinion Eddie ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 12:13 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Playback shootout... > > Richard et al, > > While I've done no shoot-outs, teaching students about "analog > recording" using a Studer A-827 is not what I remember analog tape > sounding like in the pre-digital era. I've aligned and used various > multi-tracks - AMPEX MM-1000 and MM-1200, Studer A 80 and A-800, Otari > MTR-90 and various MCI machines. I have always initiated the record > alignment process by adjusting the bias whilst listening to 40Hz > playback (and switching between input and repro). It is always a > revelation - it can even tell you when something in the tape path is > magnetized. > > The large-gap record heads of the earlier machines had a very narrow > bias window where the low frequency distortion was minimized (and > barely), especially at 30IPS. I can only guess that the Studer A-827's > head material, narrow gap record head (essentially a playback head), > very low-distortion bias oscillator and bias distribution network must > contribute to the lack of low frequency grunge. (Mike Spitz told me that > > the A-827 head material is very hard and that is a big part of the > sound.) > > As Richard said, I would expect that to move toward the "analog sound of > > tape" we remember, it would take using elevated level on a "soft" > old-fashioned tape to get into the ballpark. I think shoot-outs are > great and I look forward to listening to Richard's samples. > > I know this is a tape forum but I've just finished repairing a pair of > AKG C24 mics. Here's the comparison. > > > > > > > At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: > > > > >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great > > >machine > > > > It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines > > ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari > > MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of > > my house). > > > > >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, > > >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] > > > > While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring > > an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at > > 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is > > just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. > > > > One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he > > first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he > > increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other > > hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR > > that it sounded too digital. > > > > I shared the shootout information because as those who have > > downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among > > the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well > > against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some > > venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! > > > > Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the > > Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are > > the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the > > play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the > > A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them > > outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head > > blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s > > as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my > > business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to > > sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack > > of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of > > them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to > > replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they > > are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them > > relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do > > reverse play, among other things. > > > > There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and > > certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport > > were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones > > mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent > > machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" > > thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the > > other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly > > well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used > > something other than the mic that came with it. > > > > Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in > > the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all > > be happy at how close the three machines really are. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1164 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:39 am Subject: RE: Re: Playback shootout... ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email That's similar to what I do, though I use AP gear for the purpose. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:44 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Playback shootout... Scott I always start with 40Hz and adjust bias for the most sonically pure signal. I did this by ear for years, aided by a high pass filter to remove the fundamental. Now I have the luxury of the NTI Minilyzer so I can see mostly the third harmonic on the spectrum analyzer and read the THD as well. I then go to 10kHz @ 15IPS or 20kHz @ 30 IPS and back off the bias to find and make note of the peak. For a multitrack, I'll average a few tracks for better accuracy. I'll then use that over-bias amount. eddie > I always found that the tape itself, that is the formulation and > manufacturer, had a good deal to do with how much low end grunge there > was as well. Myself, I use 10khz and 40 hz both to look at bias > settings, but looking for different things. One is better than the other > (IMHO anyway) at pointing out a poor batch of tape, while the other was > better for setting on good batch of tape..... > > What is your opinion Eddie ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 12:13 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Playback shootout... > > Richard et al, > > While I've done no shoot-outs, teaching students about "analog > recording" using a Studer A-827 is not what I remember analog tape > sounding like in the pre-digital era. I've aligned and used various > multi-tracks - AMPEX MM-1000 and MM-1200, Studer A 80 and A-800, Otari > MTR-90 and various MCI machines. I have always initiated the record > alignment process by adjusting the bias whilst listening to 40Hz > playback (and switching between input and repro). It is always a > revelation - it can even tell you when something in the tape path is > magnetized. > > The large-gap record heads of the earlier machines had a very narrow > bias window where the low frequency distortion was minimized (and > barely), especially at 30IPS. I can only guess that the Studer A-827's > head material, narrow gap record head (essentially a playback head), > very low-distortion bias oscillator and bias distribution network must > contribute to the lack of low frequency grunge. (Mike Spitz told me that > > the A-827 head material is very hard and that is a big part of the > sound.) > > As Richard said, I would expect that to move toward the "analog sound of > > tape" we remember, it would take using elevated level on a "soft" > old-fashioned tape to get into the ballpark. I think shoot-outs are > great and I look forward to listening to Richard's samples. > > I know this is a tape forum but I've just finished repairing a pair of > AKG C24 mics. Here's the comparison. > > > > > >> > > > > At 05:44 AM 2007-04-10, Paul McCulloh wrote: > > > > >Now, will someone please speak up and say that the 5003v is a great > > >machine > > > > It's a great machine .. it definitely is one of the finest machines > > ever designed/manufactured. It is NOT sharing the fate of the Otari > > MTR10/12s that I had for a while (sold off quickly to get them out of > > my house). > > > > >and all those digital heads should be very jealous of me. Oh, > > >wait, Richard records using his laptop! [:D] > > > > While I would have killed in the days of analog to be able to bring > > an APR-5003v to a venue, the ability to record up to 18 tracks at > > 44.1/24 (and 14 tracks at 96/24 with my current setup) on a laptop is > > just far too compelling to even consider recording to analog. > > > > One APR owner who I have corresponded with complained to me when he > > first set up his APR that it sounded "too digital" -- well, he > > increased the operating level to get what he wanted. I, on the other > > hand, look for output equals input and it was a complement to the APR > > that it sounded too digital. > > > > I shared the shootout information because as those who have > > downloaded the files will hear, there is not a huge difference among > > the three machines which means that the APR is holding up very well > > against the very best of the very best. I understand that in some > > venues which have A80RCs and A820s, the A80RCs are move favoured! > > > > Overall, I think the very top-of-the-line tape machines are the > > Studer A80 and A820 and the Ampex ATR-100. Just a hair below that are > > the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810. My experience is more with the > > play-only performance than the record-play performance. The APR, the > > A810, and the A820 all share the digital setting which makes them > > outstanding for an operation like mine where I'm switching head > > blocks regularly (even if I do try and batch--I don't have any A820s > > as one machine and three headblocks for the price of a car is not my > > business model). The ATR-100 is rumoured (I have never used one) to > > sound better without its line amps. You may notice a conspicuous lack > > of the Studer A807 in this list. I'm sorry, but I find too many of > > them that don't come close to the A810s they were supposed to > > replace. I think the MK II A807s might be better, but for me, they > > are much less flexible than the other machines so I have them > > relegated to tape preparation at which they excel since they do > > reverse play, among other things. > > > > There were other good machines in Europe by Telefunken at least and > > certainly the 3M and Fairchild machines with the isoloop transport > > were outstanding, but they are relatively rare compared to the ones > > mentioned above. Nagra and Stellavox also made/make excellent > > machines. I'm not intending to make this a "what about this recorder" > > thread, so please don't. I'm sure we all have our favourites. On the > > other hand, my first machine was a Wollensak...which did surprisingly > > well for its price point, actually -- especially if you used > > something other than the mic that came with it. > > > > Anyway, I enjoy the kidding and think it is laughable when taken in > > the context of the purpose of this list, but I also thought we'd all > > be happy at how close the three machines really are. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1165 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:08 pm Subject: Snap Crackle Pop coming from the speaker richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I have one APR-5003 which has some intermittent snap-crackle-pop coming from the monitor speaker with the monitor de-selected at the monitor control panel. Since it is intermittent, it's harder to troubleshoot. Yes, I can just replace the speaker panel, but, IIRC, the power amp is bolted to the meter bridge case as a heatsink...so, any thoughts on the most likely cause? I don't see this noise on the main outputs of the machine, so it appears localized to the monitor. It also makes a siren-ish noise at powerup. I'm assuming it's bad capacitors, but I thought I'd check here if anyone has come across it and already figured it out. Five minutes of typing beats an hour of troubleshooting. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1166 From: Dana White Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:45 pm Subject: Re: Snap Crackle Pop coming from the speaker djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Richard, Both my APRs have a similar issue, but it seems to be localized to a dirty pot. A little Cailube seems to help for a short while. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 ...and the new My Space site! myspace.com/specializedmastering On Apr 16, 2007, at 12:08 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > Hi, > > I have one APR-5003 which has some intermittent snap-crackle-pop > coming from the monitor speaker with the monitor de-selected at the > monitor control panel. > > Since it is intermittent, it's harder to troubleshoot. Yes, I can > just replace the speaker panel, but, IIRC, the power amp is bolted to > the meter bridge case as a heatsink...so, any thoughts on the most > likely cause? I don't see this noise on the main outputs of the > machine, so it appears localized to the monitor. It also makes a > siren-ish noise at powerup. > > I'm assuming it's bad capacitors, but I thought I'd check here if > anyone has come across it and already figured it out. Five minutes of > typing beats an hour of troubleshooting. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1167 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:16 pm Subject: Re: Snap Crackle Pop coming from the speaker richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Dana, That's interesting. Pots don't generally get noisy unless there's DC flowing through them so I'm back to thinking capacitors as a root cause, though the pot now may also need replacement. Cheers, Richard At 12:45 PM 2007-04-16, you wrote: >Hi Richard, >Both my APRs have a similar issue, but it seems to be localized to a >dirty pot. A little Cailube seems to help for a short while. > >Best regards, >Dana > >Dana J. White >specializedmastering.com >(508) 654-1490 > >...and the new My Space site! >myspace.com/specializedmastering Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1168 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:55 pm Subject: RE: Snap Crackle Pop coming from the speaker ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Caps would also be my vote.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:17 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Snap Crackle Pop coming from the speaker Thanks, Dana, That's interesting. Pots don't generally get noisy unless there's DC flowing through them so I'm back to thinking capacitors as a root cause, though the pot now may also need replacement. Cheers, Richard At 12:45 PM 2007-04-16, you wrote: >Hi Richard, >Both my APRs have a similar issue, but it seems to be localized to a >dirty pot. A little Cailube seems to help for a short while. > >Best regards, >Dana > >Dana J. White >specializedmastering.com >(508) 654-1490 > >...and the new My Space site! >myspace.com/specializedmastering Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1169 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Fri May 4, 2007 3:22 pm Subject: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is entered. In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR 500X, here are the simple steps to setup looped playback: 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. or you can enter the values manually as follows: 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location(hours,mins,seconds) 2. Type 28 + STO key. 3 Enter the loop end location. 4. Type 29 + STO key. 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for one min. My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? Thanks in advance. Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1170 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 12, 2007 1:16 pm Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email What firmware does your machine have? It flashes in the display when you first power up. There is no memory in the keypad. Everything goes to the system RAM on the CPU board. If you had bad RAM, you'd lose your alignment presets as well. Seems mine is working properly (P4.02.01.5). Go to start point, shift the time to the locate posistion, store 28. Then go to ending time, shift to locate position and store 29. It rock and rolls like it's supposed to. It doesn't matter whether or not I use time code or the tach position. Its looping on a 2 minute cut as I write. I just realized I haven't powered the thing up in about a year and one of my opened 15 year old reels of Ampex 456 finally bit the dust. Good thing there was nothing of value on it. Check ALL your memory locations and make sure everything is where its supposed to be, Specifically locations 30-49. Location 40 should have a 0 in it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is entered. > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR 500X, here > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location (hours,mins,seconds) > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > 3 Enter the loop end location. > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for one min. > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > Thanks in advance. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1171 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun May 13, 2007 2:14 am Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email More thoughts on the matter: ALthough I've never seen this happen on an APR, I currently work on many older AMS FX processors which use the same static RAM and battery backup as the APR. Occasionally I get a glitch in what's stored in memory and have to remove the battery to clear the RAM. The cpu board is nothing more than a computer running software. If all else fails, I'd try lifting a leg on the battery on the CPU to reset the RAM. If you do this, you'll need to set up all the audio alignments from scratch. Remember the secondary gap compensations recommended in the manual or take note of your's before you remove the battery. Be sure to set them before you start the alignment process. There are no transport alignments stored in RAM so you won't have to mess with anything else. Hint: When you first power up after losing alignment data, the alignment panel display will read "PE" (preset error). To load a set of default alignment parameters into a preset, press control/store then the preset number and a default set of alignments will be loaded in that preset. It gives you a reasonable start point when you align the machine instead of having one parameter at 00 and the next at FF. You must have a PE in the display to take advantage of this. The gap compensations are not optimized in this operation and must be set manually AFTER you do this. Also, not everyone knows that you can speed up the inc/dec of a parameter by holding the control switch while pressing inc or dec. At the very top, it gets pretty fast and you have to press inc/dec again to stop it. I'm sure some of this has been covered here or you already know it. Good luck with it and I'll check back if you have any questions. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is entered. > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR 500X, here > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location (hours,mins,seconds) > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > 3 Enter the loop end location. > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for one min. > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > Thanks in advance. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1172 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun May 13, 2007 10:08 am Subject: Re: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Cary, How often do you need to replace the battery? I suspect that many of my machines still have the original batteries -- or maybe they have been changed once. I certainly haven't changed any. I still haven't gotten to that otherwise-nice 5003V that doesn't boot. Would that be a possibility? I know you said crystal previously, but since this hasn't bubbled to the top of my priorities list yet, I thought I'd ask again. I think I inherited a small box 'o batteries with one of the loads of machines that I got, but I should probably buy new since a lithium battery's shelf life is what, 10 years? Cheers, Richard At 02:14 AM 2007-05-13, ladewd wrote: >More thoughts on the matter: > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1173 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 am Subject: Re: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly masteringman... Offline Send Email Richard Hess: > How often do you need to replace the battery? I suspect that many of > my machines still have the original batteries -- or maybe they have > been changed once. Of the more than +22 Studer A820 that I resold in Sweden from Germany all had the original battery in the CPU bar none. I insist that most users out there have absolutely no understanding nor knowledge how to service their machines. Only the big ones with a service department do have a clue. And even they may leave the battery long past its due if things appear to work or unless someone complain. > but I should probably buy new since a lithium > battery's shelf life is what, 10 years? In the case of Studer A812 and A820 there´s a paper sticker on the lithium battery in the CPU card that tells the exact date they consider the end of the useful life of the battery when originally installed and a hint that the battery needs to be replaced....this of course means that the CPU card must be withdrawn for the user to see...how many do this? If the paper sticker is there I know that the battery is the original one put there at the birth of the machine. Studer set the useful life of a Lithium Battery at 8 years. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1174 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun May 13, 2007 3:49 pm Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email My suggestion is to replace them when they die. If you change them, you're going to have to go through the procedure I posted last night. I have a Sequential Circuits synth that I bought in '84 and the lithium cell is still hanging in there. The larger cells used in the APR seem to work for quite a long period of time. The one in my Audio Precision died as well as my old DX-7 and Sony DPS V-77, but they were the flat pancake type of cells. I see no reason to change the lithium cells for any other reason. The published specs on the type in the APR and Sequential Circuits synth was 10 years, but I find they last much longer than that. On the AMS processors that I work on, they use a nicad. These tend to leak and damage the traces on the PC board. I've never seen a lithium cell leak and damage a PC board, but I'm sure its entirely possible. My suggestion is to look at them and see if there is any residue leaking from the cells. If there is, replace them. As far as the crystal, this may be the cause of the problem. The first thing I look at when a processor won't run is the clock. It could be a myraid of other things as well though. I'm sure you have enough APR carcasses around to use for parts if it's something else. I'd tell you to send it to me to fix, but I don't know the age of the machine and I'm not sure that processor board would function in my newer 5003V machine. There were software and artwork changes over the course of the APR production run which made older boards incompatable with newer machines. Sure there were cuts and jumpers which could be done but then I'd have to undo all of them before returning the board to you. Way too much work for what its worth. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello, Cary, > > How often do you need to replace the battery? I suspect that many of > my machines still have the original batteries -- or maybe they have > been changed once. I certainly haven't changed any. I still haven't > gotten to that otherwise-nice 5003V that doesn't boot. Would that be > a possibility? I know you said crystal previously, but since this > hasn't bubbled to the top of my priorities list yet, I thought I'd ask again. > > I think I inherited a small box 'o batteries with one of the loads of > machines that I got, but I should probably buy new since a lithium > battery's shelf life is what, 10 years? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:14 AM 2007-05-13, ladewd wrote: > >More thoughts on the matter: > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1175 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Mon May 14, 2007 1:41 am Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Thanks for the reply guys. The firmware reads E4.02.03.7. at startup. I was unable to recall memory locations 30-39, but 40-49 contain zero at each memory location. Again, no matter what is storaged at location 29, if RCL'ed(recalled) the value is still 1.00.00. Is the E4 firmware pretty old? And if so, does anyone have updated code? Thanks, > What firmware does your machine have? It flashes in the display > when you first power up. There is no memory in the keypad. > Everything goes to the system RAM on the CPU board. If you had bad > RAM, you'd lose your alignment presets as well. > > Seems mine is working properly (P4.02.01.5). Go to start point, > shift the time to the locate posistion, store 28. Then go to ending > time, shift to locate position and store 29. It rock and rolls like > it's supposed to. It doesn't matter whether or not I use time code > or the tach position. Its looping on a 2 minute cut as I write. I > just realized I haven't powered the thing up in about a year and one > of my opened 15 year old reels of Ampex 456 finally bit the dust. > Good thing there was nothing of value on it. > > Check ALL your memory locations and make sure everything is where > its supposed to be, Specifically locations 30-49. Location 40 should > have a 0 in it. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is > entered. > > > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR 500X, > here > > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location > (hours,mins,seconds) > > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > > 3 Enter the loop end location. > > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for one > min. > > > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1176 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Tue May 15, 2007 5:06 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 right channel not working! ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > I have a small problem with my APR 5003 unit. On occasion when the > machine is powered on, the right channel is not functional even if I > swap the channel cards. After reseating the cards several times, the > right channel finally starts to work. Right know my schedule to pretty > busy and I wondering if you guys can point me in the right direction > to start the troubleshooting process. Obviously, I am trying to > eliminate a few steps to conserve time because of my hectic schedule. > > Thanks in advance. > > Ozzie > Hi Guys, An updated on this issue. It turned out that the backplane had a loose molex terminal connector. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1177 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 19, 2007 7:20 pm Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email Any EPROM version that starts with an E indicates the firmware was an evaluation version. A P prefix indicates the firmware was approved for production. If the repeat function used to work, then this is a moot point. BTW, if this isn't a 5003 or 5003V, then maybe the options in 30-39 aren't available to you. Much later on, the firmware was the same for 2 tracks and 3 tracks, but in the beginning, they were separate. I am at a loss as to why you're encountering this problem without other problems being obviously apparent. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Thanks for the reply guys. The firmware reads E4.02.03.7. at startup. > I was unable to recall memory locations 30-39, but 40-49 contain zero > at each memory location. Again, no matter what is storaged at location > 29, if RCL'ed(recalled) the value is still 1.00.00. Is the E4 firmware > pretty old? And if so, does anyone have updated code? > > Thanks, > > > What firmware does your machine have? It flashes in the display > > when you first power up. There is no memory in the keypad. > > Everything goes to the system RAM on the CPU board. If you had bad > > RAM, you'd lose your alignment presets as well. > > > > Seems mine is working properly (P4.02.01.5). Go to start point, > > shift the time to the locate posistion, store 28. Then go to ending > > time, shift to locate position and store 29. It rock and rolls like > > it's supposed to. It doesn't matter whether or not I use time code > > or the tach position. Its looping on a 2 minute cut as I write. I > > just realized I haven't powered the thing up in about a year and one > > of my opened 15 year old reels of Ampex 456 finally bit the dust. > > Good thing there was nothing of value on it. > > > > Check ALL your memory locations and make sure everything is where > > its supposed to be, Specifically locations 30-49. Location 40 should > > have a 0 in it. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > > > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is > > entered. > > > > > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR 500X, > > here > > > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > > > > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > > > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > > > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > > > > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > > > > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location > > (hours,mins,seconds) > > > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > > > 3 Enter the loop end location. > > > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > > > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > > > > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > > > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for one > > min. > > > > > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1178 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Thu May 24, 2007 3:12 am Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Cary, You don't by chance have an eprom programmer where you can copy the two IC 27256 eprom images(P4.02.01.5) and email them to me or have extra eproms that I copy and return. The APR 5003V firmware upgrades from Sony are nolonger available at this time. I didn't realize that I was running on an eval eprom image. I believe this would explain the problem I'm having with the repeat function. Thanks, Ozzie > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Thanks for the reply guys. The firmware reads E4.02.03.7. at > startup. > > I was unable to recall memory locations 30-39, but 40-49 contain > zero > > at each memory location. Again, no matter what is storaged at > location > > 29, if RCL'ed(recalled) the value is still 1.00.00. Is the E4 > firmware > > pretty old? And if so, does anyone have updated code? > > > > Thanks, > > > > > What firmware does your machine have? It flashes in the display > > > when you first power up. There is no memory in the keypad. > > > Everything goes to the system RAM on the CPU board. If you had > bad > > > RAM, you'd lose your alignment presets as well. > > > > > > Seems mine is working properly (P4.02.01.5). Go to start point, > > > shift the time to the locate posistion, store 28. Then go to > ending > > > time, shift to locate position and store 29. It rock and rolls > like > > > it's supposed to. It doesn't matter whether or not I use time > code > > > or the tach position. Its looping on a 2 minute cut as I > write. I > > > just realized I haven't powered the thing up in about a year and > one > > > of my opened 15 year old reels of Ampex 456 finally bit the > dust. > > > Good thing there was nothing of value on it. > > > > > > Check ALL your memory locations and make sure everything is > where > > > its supposed to be, Specifically locations 30-49. Location 40 > should > > > have a 0 in it. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > > > > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is > > > entered. > > > > > > > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR > 500X, > > > here > > > > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > > > > > > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > > > > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > > > > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > > > > > > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > > > > > > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location > > > (hours,mins,seconds) > > > > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > > > > 3 Enter the loop end location. > > > > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > > > > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > > > > > > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > > > > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for > one > > > min. > > > > > > > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1179 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu May 24, 2007 9:11 am Subject: Re: Software Images / PROMs richardlhess Offline Send Email We really need to create a library of all of the latest APR software. As far as I know there are: APR-5001/5002 early edition (with one-piece guides) APR-5001/5002 later edition (with two-piece guides/ceramic lifters) APR-5003 (are there different versions of this?) APR-5003V APR-24 Cheers, Richard At 03:12 AM 2007-05-24, you wrote: >Hi Cary, > >You don't by chance have an eprom programmer where you can copy the >two IC 27256 eprom images(P4.02.01.5) and email them to me or have >extra eproms that I copy and return. The APR 5003V firmware upgrades >from Sony are nolonger available at this time. I didn't realize that I >was running on an eval eprom image. I believe this would explain the >problem I'm having with the repeat function. > >Thanks, > >Ozzie > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1180 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Thu May 24, 2007 1:58 pm Subject: Re: Software Images / PROMs ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Richard, That's a really great idea! According to Sony's part list, the last PROM for 5003V was "P4.02.01.6". --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > We really need to create a library of all of the latest APR software. > > As far as I know there are: > APR-5001/5002 early edition (with one-piece guides) > APR-5001/5002 later edition (with two-piece guides/ceramic lifters) > APR-5003 (are there different versions of this?) > APR-5003V > APR-24 > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 03:12 AM 2007-05-24, you wrote: > >Hi Cary, > > > >You don't by chance have an eprom programmer where you can copy the > >two IC 27256 eprom images(P4.02.01.5) and email them to me or have > >extra eproms that I copy and return. The APR 5003V firmware upgrades > >from Sony are nolonger available at this time. I didn't realize that I > >was running on an eval eprom image. I believe this would explain the > >problem I'm having with the repeat function. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1181 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 31, 2007 1:50 am Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a few weeks. Cary -- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > You don't by chance have an eprom programmer where you can copy the > two IC 27256 eprom images(P4.02.01.5) and email them to me or have > extra eproms that I copy and return. The APR 5003V firmware upgrades > from Sony are nolonger available at this time. I didn't realize that I > was running on an eval eprom image. I believe this would explain the > problem I'm having with the repeat function. > > Thanks, > > Ozzie > > > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the reply guys. The firmware reads E4.02.03.7. at > > startup. > > > I was unable to recall memory locations 30-39, but 40-49 contain > > zero > > > at each memory location. Again, no matter what is storaged at > > location > > > 29, if RCL'ed(recalled) the value is still 1.00.00. Is the E4 > > firmware > > > pretty old? And if so, does anyone have updated code? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > What firmware does your machine have? It flashes in the display > > > > when you first power up. There is no memory in the keypad. > > > > Everything goes to the system RAM on the CPU board. If you had > > bad > > > > RAM, you'd lose your alignment presets as well. > > > > > > > > Seems mine is working properly (P4.02.01.5). Go to start point, > > > > shift the time to the locate posistion, store 28. Then go to > > ending > > > > time, shift to locate position and store 29. It rock and rolls > > like > > > > it's supposed to. It doesn't matter whether or not I use time > > code > > > > or the tach position. Its looping on a 2 minute cut as I > > write. I > > > > just realized I haven't powered the thing up in about a year and > > one > > > > of my opened 15 year old reels of Ampex 456 finally bit the > > dust. > > > > Good thing there was nothing of value on it. > > > > > > > > Check ALL your memory locations and make sure everything is > > where > > > > its supposed to be, Specifically locations 30-49. Location 40 > > should > > > > have a 0 in it. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Are any of you guys familiar with the repeat function? The end > > > > > position is defaulting to 1.00.0 regardless of what value is > > > > entered. > > > > > > > > > > In case you are not familiar the repeat function on the APR > > 500X, > > > > here > > > > > are the simple steps to setup looped playback: > > > > > > > > > > 1. From start position press 28 + STO key. > > > > > 2. Go to end position of loop and press 29 + STO key > > > > > 3. Press repeat key and you should be off and running. > > > > > > > > > > or you can enter the values manually as follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Using the numeric key pad type the start location > > > > (hours,mins,seconds) > > > > > 2. Type 28 + STO key. > > > > > 3 Enter the loop end location. > > > > > 4. Type 29 + STO key. > > > > > 5. Press repeat key and you should again be off and running. > > > > > > > > > > But, my problem is that once the repeat key is pressed the end > > > > > position changes to "1.00.0", which means it only loops for > > one > > > > min. > > > > > > > > > > My guess is that the keypad has bad memory. Any other ideas? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1182 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 31, 2007 2:00 am Subject: Re: Software Images / PROMs ladewd Offline Send Email As far as I'm concerned, 1.5 was the last bug free version. I can't remember what issues were addressed in 1.6, but I definitely do remember they were functions I would never use and that some other bugs were present in the release. (I want to say it was a problem with play speed under certain conditions) On my machine, I wouldn't go past 1.5. Being away from the APR biz for 10 years has really cleared my memory out. My biggest mistake was misplacing all the APR series tech bulletins. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > That's a really great idea! According to Sony's part list, the last > PROM for 5003V was "P4.02.01.6". > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > We really need to create a library of all of the latest APR software. > > > > As far as I know there are: > > APR-5001/5002 early edition (with one-piece guides) > > APR-5001/5002 later edition (with two-piece guides/ceramic lifters) > > APR-5003 (are there different versions of this?) > > APR-5003V > > APR-24 > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 03:12 AM 2007-05-24, you wrote: > > >Hi Cary, > > > > > >You don't by chance have an eprom programmer where you can copy the > > >two IC 27256 eprom images(P4.02.01.5) and email them to me or have > > >extra eproms that I copy and return. The APR 5003V firmware upgrades > > >from Sony are nolonger available at this time. I didn't realize that I > > >was running on an eval eprom image. I believe this would explain the > > >problem I'm having with the repeat function. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@ > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1183 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, I hope all went well with your surgery. When you get a moment and feeling better, that would be great. Ozzie --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" ourwrote: > > I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm > going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a few > weeks. > > > Cary > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1184 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:38 pm Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email Ozzie, Still healing here. I will get to it soon. I haven't been back to work yet. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Thanks Cary, > > I hope all went well with your surgery. When you get a moment and > feeling better, that would be great. > > Ozzie > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" ourwrote: > > > > I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm > > going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a few > > weeks. > > > > > > Cary > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1185 From: Dana White Date: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly djwaudio Offline Send Email Get well soon Cary. I hope everything is okay for you. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:38 PM, ladewd wrote: > Ozzie, > > Still healing here. I will get to it soon. I haven't been back to > work yet. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Thanks Cary, > > > > I hope all went well with your surgery. When you get a moment and > > feeling better, that would be great. > > > > Ozzie > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" ourwrote: > > > > > > I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm > > > going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a > few > > > weeks. > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1186 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:20 pm Subject: RE: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email My thoughts as well, Cary. I also am recovering from spinal surgery last Thursday. I guess we old farts just can't seem to stay in one piece... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana White Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 5:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly Get well soon Cary. I hope everything is okay for you. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:38 PM, ladewd wrote: > Ozzie, > > Still healing here. I will get to it soon. I haven't been back to > work yet. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Thanks Cary, > > > > I hope all went well with your surgery. When you get a moment and > > feeling better, that would be great. > > > > Ozzie > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "ladewd" ourwrote: > > > > > > I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm > > > going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a > few > > > weeks. > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1187 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:34 am Subject: Re: Repeat Function Not Working Properly ladewd Offline Send Email Thank you Dana. ...and Scott, I hope your recovery is speedy. You're right, getting old sucks. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Get well soon Cary. I hope everything is okay for you. > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:38 PM, ladewd wrote: > > > Ozzie, > > > > Still healing here. I will get to it soon. I haven't been back to > > work yet. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Cary, > > > > > > I hope all went well with your surgery. When you get a moment and > > > feeling better, that would be great. > > > > > > Ozzie > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" ourwrote: > > > > > > > > I can probably pull it off. I have a eprom burner at work. I'm > > > > going in for some surgery nex week, so you may have to wait a > > few > > > > weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (18 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1188 From: "carminelaurilso" Date: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:29 pm Subject: Sony APR 5000 extender card - help with more information please about machine carminelaurilso Offline Send Email Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and to this Sony APR 5000 series. I would like to know please which extender card i need to get that will fit this machine as i am about to get an APR 5003 from a friend but does not come with one. Will an EX-116 card fit it and if not which card do i need to look for? I would also like to know more about your experiences with this machine especially troubleshooting areas and also obtaining parts for it. I know these are very general questions but i know nothing about it. I have always used Studer A807s and still will but fancied one of these to add to my collection of tape machines which i like very much. How does it compare with a Studer A807 say or an Ampex ATR 100? These are all high spec machines of course but would like to know your opinions. I am abit nervous in investing in one as i do not know it but i have an opportunity to get a machine in tip top condition and possibly hardly used too. So why not? This machine unfortunately comes with no trolley either...will a Studer or Revox trolley with some modification fit it? I would love to hear your experiences with it before i get one so i can make up my mind. I will be paying approx £275 uk sterling for it. Is that a fair deal for a nice condition machine? Many thanks indeed. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1189 From: "memontdabe" Date: Wed Aug 8, 2007 8:37 pm Subject: alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 memontdabe Offline Send Email does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1190 From: "thirdstreammusic_design" <3sm@...> Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:51 pm Subject: APR Repair advice thirdstreamm... Offline Send Email Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and use the VU meters for monitoring. Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the power switch. Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? Thanks for the help. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1191 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: RE: APR Repair advice ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've had this issue with the power switch a number of times. If it doesn't feel right, then you likely have the cause.... Cary, care to comment ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:51 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR Repair advice Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and use the VU meters for monitoring. Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the power switch. Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? Thanks for the help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1192 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 3:58 pm Subject: RE: alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email There isn't any particular tape to be used with this recorder, it depends on how the recorder is to be used. You'd use the same tapes for other manufacturer's recorders for any given format. Any MRL / STL full width 2" alignment tape with multitones is going to be fine, you can easily order them. Not cheap, but then they never were. Just one of those things you have to have with an analog recorder. Used Magnetic Reference Laboratory (MRL) or Standard Tape Lab (STL) are a dicey proposition at best. I don't advise them. Hit their (MRL/STL) web sites for pricing and availability of new ones. They have a limited lifespan depending on storage and use. Be sure to spec what reference level you want for the tape(s) as well as the speed and if NAB/IEC standard. If you aren't sure what you need, myself, Cary, or a number of others here on the list can help you figure out which one you need. If you aren't sure how to use the tapes, just ask. With any full width alignment tape, you should NOT use the low frequency tones to adjust playback or cue low frequency settings on the recorder, this is done during the RECORD alignment. I or others can give you the why's and wherefores of that, or how to go about an alignment of a JH-16 if you need them. In that case it would be helpful to know the build date, as some of the audio electronics are different. As for brand of alignment tape, while I prefer MRL, others prefer STL for one reason or another. More important is to HAVE a good test tape than which brand. Not having one really isn't an option... just a cost of doing business. Hope this helps..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of memontdabe Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1193 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 4:59 pm Subject: RE: alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 allegrosound Offline Send Email STL is back in biz? where? Scott Phillips wrote: There isn't any particular tape to be used with this recorder, it depends on how the recorder is to be used. You'd use the same tapes for other manufacturer's recorders for any given format. Any MRL / STL full width 2" alignment tape with multitones is going to be fine, you can easily order them. Not cheap, but then they never were. Just one of those things you have to have with an analog recorder. Used Magnetic Reference Laboratory (MRL) or Standard Tape Lab (STL) are a dicey proposition at best. I don't advise them. Hit their (MRL/STL) web sites for pricing and availability of new ones. They have a limited lifespan depending on storage and use. Be sure to spec what reference level you want for the tape(s) as well as the speed and if NAB/IEC standard. If you aren't sure what you need, myself, Cary, or a number of others here on the list can help you figure out which one you need. If you aren't sure how to use the tapes, just ask. With any full width alignment tape, you should NOT use the low frequency tones to adjust playback or cue low frequency settings on the recorder, this is done during the RECORD alignment. I or others can give you the why's and wherefores of that, or how to go about an alignment of a JH-16 if you need them. In that case it would be helpful to know the build date, as some of the audio electronics are different. As for brand of alignment tape, while I prefer MRL, others prefer STL for one reason or another. More important is to HAVE a good test tape than which brand. Not having one really isn't an option... just a cost of doing business. Hope this helps..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of memontdabe Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1194 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 6:12 pm Subject: RE: alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Sorry, hadn't checked for an age and a day, since I don't use them. You are correct, of course. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 STL is back in biz? where? Scott Phillips > wrote: There isn't any particular tape to be used with this recorder, it depends on how the recorder is to be used. You'd use the same tapes for other manufacturer's recorders for any given format. Any MRL / STL full width 2" alignment tape with multitones is going to be fine, you can easily order them. Not cheap, but then they never were. Just one of those things you have to have with an analog recorder. Used Magnetic Reference Laboratory (MRL) or Standard Tape Lab (STL) are a dicey proposition at best. I don't advise them. Hit their (MRL/STL) web sites for pricing and availability of new ones. They have a limited lifespan depending on storage and use. Be sure to spec what reference level you want for the tape(s) as well as the speed and if NAB/IEC standard. If you aren't sure what you need, myself, Cary, or a number of others here on the list can help you figure out which one you need. If you aren't sure how to use the tapes, just ask. With any full width alignment tape, you should NOT use the low frequency tones to adjust playback or cue low frequency settings on the recorder, this is done during the RECORD alignment. I or others can give you the why's and wherefores of that, or how to go about an alignment of a JH-16 if you need them. In that case it would be helpful to know the build date, as some of the audio electronics are different. As for brand of alignment tape, while I prefer MRL, others prefer STL for one reason or another. More important is to HAVE a good test tape than which brand. Not having one really isn't an option... just a cost of doing business. Hope this helps..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of memontdabe Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1195 From: "thirdstreammusic_design" <3sm@...> Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 10:25 pm Subject: Re: APR Repair advice thirdstreamm... Offline Send Email Any advice on where to purchase a new power switch - and replacing it? --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I've had this issue with the power switch a number of times. If it > doesn't feel right, then you likely have the cause.... > > Cary, care to comment ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:51 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR Repair advice > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > use the VU meters for monitoring. > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > power switch. > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1196 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:46 pm Subject: *** 1/4" Test Tapes *** allegrosound Offline Send Email bummer, as STL made accurate test-tapes. Scott Kent never returned my custom STL Pink-Noise tape (if you're reading this, Scott, please keep looking!). Anyone out there got any NON-BackCoated test tapes they no longer need? Scott Phillips wrote: Sorry, hadn't checked for an age and a day, since I don't use them. You are correct, of course. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick@... Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 STL is back in biz? where? Scott Phillips > wrote: There isn't any particular tape to be used with this recorder, it depends on how the recorder is to be used. You'd use the same tapes for other manufacturer's recorders for any given format. Any MRL / STL full width 2" alignment tape with multitones is going to be fine, you can easily order them. Not cheap, but then they never were. Just one of those things you have to have with an analog recorder. Used Magnetic Reference Laboratory (MRL) or Standard Tape Lab (STL) are a dicey proposition at best. I don't advise them. Hit their (MRL/STL) web sites for pricing and availability of new ones. They have a limited lifespan depending on storage and use. Be sure to spec what reference level you want for the tape(s) as well as the speed and if NAB/IEC standard. If you aren't sure what you need, myself, Cary, or a number of others here on the list can help you figure out which one you need. If you aren't sure how to use the tapes, just ask. With any full width alignment tape, you should NOT use the low frequency tones to adjust playback or cue low frequency settings on the recorder, this is done during the RECORD alignment. I or others can give you the why's and wherefores of that, or how to go about an alignment of a JH-16 if you need them. In that case it would be helpful to know the build date, as some of the audio electronics are different. As for brand of alignment tape, while I prefer MRL, others prefer STL for one reason or another. More important is to HAVE a good test tape than which brand. Not having one really isn't an option... just a cost of doing business. Hope this helps..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of memontdabe Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1197 From: Dana White Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:39 am Subject: Re: APR Repair advice djwaudio Offline Send Email You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I had to replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on there and check for continuity. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > use the VU meters for monitoring. > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > power switch. > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > Thanks for the help. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1198 From: Dana White Date: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:41 am Subject: Re: alignment reference tape for MCI JH-16 djwaudio Offline Send Email JRF still sells MRL tapes as far as I know. John is a great guy and a life saver! Tell him I sent you. www.jrfmagnetics.com Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Aug 8, 2007, at 8:37 PM, memontdabe wrote: > does anyone have a reference tape for this machine for sale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1199 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:00 pm Subject: Re: APR Repair advice ladewd Offline Send Email Sounds like the power switch to me. Fortunately, I never had to replace mine, but I have seen a few bad ones in my time. The advice above about checking the continuity of the switch is the first place I'd go. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I've had this issue with the power switch a number of times. If it > doesn't feel right, then you likely have the cause.... > > Cary, care to comment ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:51 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR Repair advice > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > use the VU meters for monitoring. > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > power switch. > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1200 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:14 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR Repair advice ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email How are you feeling Cary ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:01 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice Sounds like the power switch to me. Fortunately, I never had to replace mine, but I have seen a few bad ones in my time. The advice above about checking the continuity of the switch is the first place I'd go. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I've had this issue with the power switch a number of times. If it > doesn't feel right, then you likely have the cause.... > > Cary, care to comment ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:51 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR Repair advice > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > use the VU meters for monitoring. > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > power switch. > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1201 From: "thirdstreammusic_design" <3sm@...> Date: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:10 pm Subject: Re: APR Repair advice thirdstreamm... Offline Send Email Update - I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to CNJ900 - all checked out. I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel assembly to the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - all check out. I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check the continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the switched/unswitched AC lines. My guess is that the switch is the culprit. ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I had to > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on there and > check for continuity. > > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > > power switch. > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1202 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:12 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR Repair advice ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all respects to the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado Springs, and just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics supply house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the switch was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you might have good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone won't help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number instead of a Sony number. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice Update - I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to CNJ900 - all checked out. I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel assembly to the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - all check out. I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check the continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the switched/unswitched AC lines. My guess is that the switch is the culprit. ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , Dana White wrote: > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I had to > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on there and > check for continuity. > > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically for > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had - > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked the > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining the > > power switch. > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? - > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more qualified? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1203 From: "thirdstreammusic_design" <3sm@...> Date: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:43 pm Subject: Re: APR Repair advice thirdstreamm... Offline Send Email Yeah - the switch looks pretty standard - really just a matter of size to fit in the casing. I also emailed Sony's parts dept. I found similiar descriptions (SWITCH, SEESAW (AC POWER)although, the part number in the manual is: 1-554-066-00, and they do not appear to still carry that number. I take it getting original/replacement parts for these machines is rather difficult? Anyone have any luck/no luck with dealing with Sony directly (even though it means paying retail, I'm sure) - I did order a manual from them a while back and that worked out.. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all respects to > the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado Springs, and > just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics supply > house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the switch > was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you might have > good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone won't > help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number instead > of a Sony number. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice > > > > Update - > I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to CNJ900 > - all checked out. > I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel assembly to > the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - > all check out. > I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if > something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check the > continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled > 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the > switched/unswitched AC lines. > My guess is that the switch is the culprit. > ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > Dana White wrote: > > > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I had to > > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on there and > > check for continuity. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Dana > > > > Dana J. White > > specializedmastering.com > > (508) 654-1490 > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it sporadically > for > > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the board and > > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon about the > > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and carefully > > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than it had > - > > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I checked > the > > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently examining > the > > > power switch. > > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or internal fuse? > - > > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical repair > > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more > qualified? > > > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1204 From: Dana White Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR Repair advice djwaudio Offline Send Email I got a replacement by bringing the broken switch to the local electronics shop. They were able to find a fit, though it's not black like the original. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Aug 12, 2007, at 9:43 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > Yeah - the switch looks pretty standard - really just a matter of size > to fit in the casing. > I also emailed Sony's parts dept. I found similiar descriptions > (SWITCH, SEESAW (AC POWER)although, the part number in the manual is: > 1-554-066-00, and they do not appear to still carry that number. > I take it getting original/replacement parts for these machines is > rather difficult? > Anyone have any luck/no luck with dealing with Sony directly (even > though it means paying retail, I'm sure) - I did order a manual from > them a while back and that worked out.. > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all > respects to > > the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado > Springs, and > > just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics supply > > house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the > switch > > was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you might > have > > good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone > won't > > help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number > instead > > of a Sony number. > > > > Scott > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice > > > > > > > > Update - > > I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to > CNJ900 > > - all checked out. > > I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel > assembly to > > the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - > > all check out. > > I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if > > something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check > the > > continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled > > 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the > > switched/unswitched AC lines. > > My guess is that the switch is the culprit. > > ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> , > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I > had to > > > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on > there and > > > check for continuity. > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Dana > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > specializedmastering.com > > > (508) 654-1490 > > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it > sporadically > > for > > > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the > board and > > > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon > about the > > > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and > carefully > > > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than > it had > > - > > > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I > checked > > the > > > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently > examining > > the > > > > power switch. > > > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or > internal fuse? > > - > > > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical > repair > > > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more > > qualified? > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1205 From: "thirdstreammusic_design" <3sm@...> Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:06 pm Subject: Re: APR Repair advice thirdstreamm... Offline Send Email I don't think the local electronics shop exists anymore. I have searched all over and no one even cares to deal with vintage gear. I spoke with Sony - they want $45 for the switch!! I guess that is my only option. I don't want to seem blasphemous or anything - but I was thinking about using the VU meters from the APR to create a rack mount VU meter bridge. I could trade someone the remaining parts on the APR for assistance with this creation. If anyone is interested send me an email 3sm@... - if this is against group rules - I apologise and disregard... --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > I got a replacement by bringing the broken switch to the local > electronics shop. They were able to find a fit, though it's not black > like the original. > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > On Aug 12, 2007, at 9:43 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > Yeah - the switch looks pretty standard - really just a matter of size > > to fit in the casing. > > I also emailed Sony's parts dept. I found similiar descriptions > > (SWITCH, SEESAW (AC POWER)although, the part number in the manual is: > > 1-554-066-00, and they do not appear to still carry that number. > > I take it getting original/replacement parts for these machines is > > rather difficult? > > Anyone have any luck/no luck with dealing with Sony directly (even > > though it means paying retail, I'm sure) - I did order a manual from > > them a while back and that worked out.. > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > > > I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all > > respects to > > > the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado > > Springs, and > > > just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics supply > > > house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the > > switch > > > was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you might > > have > > > good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone > > won't > > > help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number > > instead > > > of a Sony number. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice > > > > > > > > > > > > Update - > > > I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to > > CNJ900 > > > - all checked out. > > > I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel > > assembly to > > > the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - > > > all check out. > > > I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if > > > something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check > > the > > > continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled > > > 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the > > > switched/unswitched AC lines. > > > My guess is that the switch is the culprit. > > > ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I > > had to > > > > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on > > there and > > > > check for continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > (508) 654-1490 > > > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it > > sporadically > > > for > > > > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the > > board and > > > > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > > > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon > > about the > > > > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and > > carefully > > > > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than > > it had > > > - > > > > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I > > checked > > > the > > > > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently > > examining > > > the > > > > > power switch. > > > > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or > > internal fuse? > > > - > > > > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical > > repair > > > > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more > > > qualified? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1206 From: Dana White Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:06 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR Repair advice djwaudio Offline Send Email I feel you. That's steep! You can check digi-key or mouser. Just get the old switch out and measure it. You can then find one on line or even by phone. They are generally very helpful. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Aug 13, 2007, at 6:06 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > I don't think the local electronics shop exists anymore. I have > searched all over and no one even cares to deal with vintage gear. I > spoke with Sony - they want $45 for the switch!! I guess that is my > only option. > I don't want to seem blasphemous or anything - but I was thinking > about using the VU meters from the APR to create a rack mount VU meter > bridge. I could trade someone the remaining parts on the APR for > assistance with this creation. If anyone is interested send me an > email 3sm@... - if this is against group rules - I apologise and > disregard... > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > I got a replacement by bringing the broken switch to the local > > electronics shop. They were able to find a fit, though it's not > black > > like the original. > > > > Best regards, > > Dana > > > > Dana J. White > > specializedmastering.com > > (508) 654-1490 > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > On Aug 12, 2007, at 9:43 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > Yeah - the switch looks pretty standard - really just a matter > of size > > > to fit in the casing. > > > I also emailed Sony's parts dept. I found similiar descriptions > > > (SWITCH, SEESAW (AC POWER)although, the part number in the > manual is: > > > 1-554-066-00, and they do not appear to still carry that number. > > > I take it getting original/replacement parts for these machines is > > > rather difficult? > > > Anyone have any luck/no luck with dealing with Sony directly (even > > > though it means paying retail, I'm sure) - I did order a manual > from > > > them a while back and that worked out.. > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > > > > > I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all > > > respects to > > > > the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado > > > Springs, and > > > > just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics > supply > > > > house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the > > > switch > > > > was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you > might > > > have > > > > good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone > > > won't > > > > help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number > > > instead > > > > of a Sony number. > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update - > > > > I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to > > > CNJ900 > > > > - all checked out. > > > > I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel > > > assembly to > > > > the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the > fuse - > > > > all check out. > > > > I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if > > > > something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to > check > > > the > > > > continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled > > > > 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and > the > > > > switched/unswitched AC lines. > > > > My guess is that the switch is the culprit. > > > > ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I > > > had to > > > > > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on > > > there and > > > > > check for continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > (508) 654-1490 > > > > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it > > > sporadically > > > > for > > > > > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the > > > board and > > > > > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > > > > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon > > > about the > > > > > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and > > > carefully > > > > > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid > than > > > it had > > > > - > > > > > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I > > > checked > > > > the > > > > > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently > > > examining > > > > the > > > > > > power switch. > > > > > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or > > > internal fuse? > > > > - > > > > > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic > electrical > > > repair > > > > > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more > > > > qualified? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1207 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:01 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR Repair advice ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Try for a local electronics surplus place, I have good luck for such things for pennies... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:07 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice I don't think the local electronics shop exists anymore. I have searched all over and no one even cares to deal with vintage gear. I spoke with Sony - they want $45 for the switch!! I guess that is my only option. I don't want to seem blasphemous or anything - but I was thinking about using the VU meters from the APR to create a rack mount VU meter bridge. I could trade someone the remaining parts on the APR for assistance with this creation. If anyone is interested send me an email 3sm@... - if this is against group rules - I apologise and disregard... --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , Dana White wrote: > > I got a replacement by bringing the broken switch to the local > electronics shop. They were able to find a fit, though it's not black > like the original. > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > On Aug 12, 2007, at 9:43 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > Yeah - the switch looks pretty standard - really just a matter of size > > to fit in the casing. > > I also emailed Sony's parts dept. I found similiar descriptions > > (SWITCH, SEESAW (AC POWER)although, the part number in the manual is: > > 1-554-066-00, and they do not appear to still carry that number. > > I take it getting original/replacement parts for these machines is > > rather difficult? > > Anyone have any luck/no luck with dealing with Sony directly (even > > though it means paying retail, I'm sure) - I did order a manual from > > them a while back and that worked out.. > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > > > I was able to get a replacement that was identical in all > > respects to > > > the original a year ago. I was servicing an APR in Colorado > > Springs, and > > > just on the chance I took the old one to a local electronics supply > > > house, and they matched it. I guess what I'm saying is that the > > switch > > > was used in a bunch of different manufacturers gear, so you might > > have > > > good luck locally with a bit of driving. Doing it over the phone > > won't > > > help, unless someone here has matched it to an OEM part number > > instead > > > of a Sony number. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > Behalf Of thirdstreammusic_design > > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:10 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR Repair advice > > > > > > > > > > > > Update - > > > I checked the power lines from the switch to CNJ901 through to > > CNJ900 > > > - all checked out. > > > I checked continuity from the power plug on the rear panel > > assembly to > > > the power cord input on the back of the unit and through the fuse - > > > all check out. > > > I removed the power switch and there seems to be a rattle (as if > > > something is loose within the switch). I am not sure how to check > > the > > > continuity on the switch - it has 4 active connections labelled > > > 1,2,4,5 and connect the switched/unswitched neutral lines and the > > > switched/unswitched AC lines. > > > My guess is that the switch is the culprit. > > > ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT? > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > You may be on to something with the power switch and fuses. I > > had to > > > > replace the mains switch on my APR. Put your multi meter on > > there and > > > > check for continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > (508) 654-1490 > > > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:51 PM, thirdstreammusic_design wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello. I own a APR-5003 1/4" mastering deck. I use it > > sporadically > > > for > > > > > some mastering, etc. but usually leave it connected to the > > board and > > > > > use the VU meters for monitoring. > > > > > Yesterday, it did not power up. There was nothing uncommon > > about the > > > > > last power up/down - and the machine is moved seldom and > > carefully > > > > > over short distances. The on/off switch feels less rigid than > > it had > > > - > > > > > as if it is not fully contacting? - and I get no power. I > > checked > > > the > > > > > power cable, and the fuse in the back and I am currently > > examining > > > the > > > > > power switch. > > > > > Does this issue sound familiar - like a bad switch or > > internal fuse? > > > - > > > > > do I need to give more information? - I have basic electrical > > repair > > > > > work knowledge - do I certainly need to go to someone more > > > qualified? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1208 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:21 pm Subject: Sony PCM-3402 help request vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, I am new to this page, I collect reel to reels, as of yet I have not got a APR-5000 but I have an APR-2003 and a PCM-3402, my site is as follows www.vintagerecorders.co.uk I have a question for you all, up until recently, I always believed the PCM3402 was newer than a PCM3202, it looks sleek, updated design to the PCM3202 (Which looks like an APR-5000), and from my service manual date and the recorders internal date, appears newer. Can anyone tell me when the PCM3404 was sold and if it was the last of the 2 track reel to reels from Sony? Thank you all for your time, I hope to contribute more shortly. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1209 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:36 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 help request ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Cary might answer this best, but as far as I remember, the only 'real' difference of note was the tape speed, to allow mainly for easier cut/splice editing. I seem to remember both models being in production at the same time. Cary ?? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:21 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request Hello, I am new to this page, I collect reel to reels, as of yet I have not got a APR-5000 but I have an APR-2003 and a PCM-3402, my site is as follows www.vintagerecorders.co.uk I have a question for you all, up until recently, I always believed the PCM3402 was newer than a PCM3202, it looks sleek, updated design to the PCM3202 (Which looks like an APR-5000), and from my service manual date and the recorders internal date, appears newer. Can anyone tell me when the PCM3404 was sold and if it was the last of the 2 track reel to reels from Sony? Thank you all for your time, I hope to contribute more shortly. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1210 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:10 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 help request vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers for the info, though what was the speeds about? The machine I have I believe runs at 15 and 7.1/2 inches a second, the 3202 being very similar in shape to the APR-5000 series, was this also three speed? Cheers for your help on this, hopefully I will get to the bottom of it. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 23 August 2007 20:36 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request Cary might answer this best, but as far as I remember, the only 'real' difference of note was the tape speed, to allow mainly for easier cut/splice editing. I seem to remember both models being in production at the same time. Cary ?? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:21 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request Hello, I am new to this page, I collect reel to reels, as of yet I have not got a APR-5000 but I have an APR-2003 and a PCM-3402, my site is as follows www.vintagerecorders.co.uk I have a question for you all, up until recently, I always believed the PCM3402 was newer than a PCM3202, it looks sleek, updated design to the PCM3202 (Which looks like an APR-5000), and from my service manual date and the recorders internal date, appears newer. Can anyone tell me when the PCM3404 was sold and if it was the last of the 2 track reel to reels from Sony? Thank you all for your time, I hope to contribute more shortly. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1211 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:13 am Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 help request ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, The first 2 track Dash machine was the 3102. It ran at 7.5ips. One of the big selling points of Dash machines was that you could do razor blade edits. While this never was perfect, it was a selling point. The 3202 was developed to run at a faster tape speed, 15ips. This was done to make editing easier. Both machines were built in Ft. Lauderdale FL. The PCM was designed jointly in Japan and the US. The 3402 was built and designed entirely in Japan. The electronics are identical to the 3202, but the circuits are distributed among the PC boards differently. Of course the cosmetics are different. The 3402 was the last 2 track Dash machine that Sony released. I think both the APR5000 series and PCM3402 series were discontinued within a year of each other(~1997). The 24 and 48 track Dash machines were around longer than that. They stopped manufacturing the PCM3348HR in 2002. The transport and mechanical assemblies of the APR5000 and the PCM3X02 machines were pretty much the same, other than the audio electronics and head assemblies etc. There were some modifications to the PCM machines to allow the transport to lock to a control track. There were several mechanical differences between the 3202 and 3402 but the performance is identical. The 3402 sure is a nice looking machine. I wish the APR series had that look. Cheers, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Cheers for the info, though what was the speeds about? The machine I have I > believe runs at 15 and 7.1/2 inches a second, the 3202 being very similar in > shape to the APR-5000 series, was this also three speed? > > > > Cheers for your help on this, hopefully I will get to the bottom of it. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 23 August 2007 20:36 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request > > > > Cary might answer this best, but as far as I remember, the only 'real' > difference of note was the tape speed, to allow mainly for easier > cut/splice editing. I seem to remember both models being in production > at the same time. Cary ?? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:21 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request > > Hello, I am new to this page, I collect reel to reels, as of yet I have > not got a APR-5000 but I have an APR-2003 and a PCM-3402, my site is as > follows > > www.vintagerecorders.co.uk > > I have a question for you all, up until recently, I always believed the > PCM3402 was newer than a PCM3202, it looks sleek, updated design to the > PCM3202 (Which looks like an APR-5000), and from my service manual > date and the recorders internal date, appears newer. > > Can anyone tell me when the PCM3404 was sold and if it was the last of > the 2 track reel to reels from Sony? > > Thank you all for your time, I hope to contribute more shortly. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1212 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:12 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 help request vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Thank you very much on the help of the mystery of which came last, I was pretty sure, convinced the 3402 was the last but I had been speaker with someone who is more in the business than me who said otherwise, if it wasn't for the 3402 looking so much more modern, I wouldn't have thought so strongly it was the last one. Its good to know about the spares being the same electrically but on different boards, some of these chips look hard to find, now though I am after a capstan motor for my machine as its very noisy and I can't get into the motor to change the bearings. Thank you very much Cary. www.vintagerecorders.co.uk From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: 25 August 2007 06:13 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 help request Hi Stuart, The first 2 track Dash machine was the 3102. It ran at 7.5ips. One of the big selling points of Dash machines was that you could do razor blade edits. While this never was perfect, it was a selling point. The 3202 was developed to run at a faster tape speed, 15ips. This was done to make editing easier. Both machines were built in Ft. Lauderdale FL. The PCM was designed jointly in Japan and the US. The 3402 was built and designed entirely in Japan. The electronics are identical to the 3202, but the circuits are distributed among the PC boards differently. Of course the cosmetics are different. The 3402 was the last 2 track Dash machine that Sony released. I think both the APR5000 series and PCM3402 series were discontinued within a year of each other(~1997). The 24 and 48 track Dash machines were around longer than that. They stopped manufacturing the PCM3348HR in 2002. The transport and mechanical assemblies of the APR5000 and the PCM3X02 machines were pretty much the same, other than the audio electronics and head assemblies etc. There were some modifications to the PCM machines to allow the transport to lock to a control track. There were several mechanical differences between the 3202 and 3402 but the performance is identical. The 3402 sure is a nice looking machine. I wish the APR series had that look. Cheers, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Cheers for the info, though what was the speeds about? The machine I have I > believe runs at 15 and 7.1/2 inches a second, the 3202 being very similar in > shape to the APR-5000 series, was this also three speed? > > > > Cheers for your help on this, hopefully I will get to the bottom of it. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 23 August 2007 20:36 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request > > > > Cary might answer this best, but as far as I remember, the only 'real' > difference of note was the tape speed, to allow mainly for easier > cut/splice editing. I seem to remember both models being in production > at the same time. Cary ?? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:21 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 help request > > Hello, I am new to this page, I collect reel to reels, as of yet I have > not got a APR-5000 but I have an APR-2003 and a PCM-3402, my site is as > follows > > www.vintagerecorders.co.uk > > I have a question for you all, up until recently, I always believed the > PCM3402 was newer than a PCM3202, it looks sleek, updated design to the > PCM3202 (Which looks like an APR-5000), and from my service manual > date and the recorders internal date, appears newer. > > Can anyone tell me when the PCM3404 was sold and if it was the last of > the 2 track reel to reels from Sony? > > Thank you all for your time, I hope to contribute more shortly. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1213 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:14 am Subject: Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Can anyone help me on a Capstan motor for this machine? Mine has a problem with bearings which I cannot change, I would love to buy one is anyone has one laying around. The amount of work this machine has needed to get it running is amazing, it was full of dead caps, a few dead transistors and a few dead sensors, but it's been worthwhile repairing even if the money pushed into it is a lot more than it's worth now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1214 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:51 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Too bad you are in the UK. AMP services rebuilds these, MCI, and APR motors, various others..... http://www.audiomagnetics.com/ There are other companies I'm sure, but I've only dealt with them. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:15 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Can anyone help me on a Capstan motor for this machine? Mine has a problem with bearings which I cannot change, I would love to buy one is anyone has one laying around. The amount of work this machine has needed to get it running is amazing, it was full of dead caps, a few dead transistors and a few dead sensors, but it's been worthwhile repairing even if the money pushed into it is a lot more than it's worth now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1215 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:04 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Thank you, I have emailed them and wait to hear the cost, my machine is 85% working, one fault is the capstan bearings, the other is the PSU needs some caps replacing in it. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 August 2007 18:52 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Too bad you are in the UK. AMP services rebuilds these, MCI, and APR motors, various others..... http://www.audiomagnetics.com/ There are other companies I'm sure, but I've only dealt with them. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:15 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Can anyone help me on a Capstan motor for this machine? Mine has a problem with bearings which I cannot change, I would love to buy one is anyone has one laying around. The amount of work this machine has needed to get it running is amazing, it was full of dead caps, a few dead transistors and a few dead sensors, but it's been worthwhile repairing even if the money pushed into it is a lot more than it's worth now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1216 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:29 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email No problem at all. Although I usually use JRF Magnetics for headstack rework (http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/), I've also used AMP for that a few times as well, and the results were good. I've had AMP rebuild perhaps a dozen capstan motors, and the results were good in every case. The turn around time was/is very good for both company if you prearrange it with them. In/out in one business day was normal in such cases. I never did this internationally, so I don't know what the tax or customs issues might be, or what delays that might mean. Nice people in both companies..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:05 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Thank you, I have emailed them and wait to hear the cost, my machine is 85% working, one fault is the capstan bearings, the other is the PSU needs some caps replacing in it. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 August 2007 18:52 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Too bad you are in the UK. AMP services rebuilds these, MCI, and APR motors, various others..... http://www.audiomagnetics.com/ There are other companies I'm sure, but I've only dealt with them. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:15 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor Can anyone help me on a Capstan motor for this machine? Mine has a problem with bearings which I cannot change, I would love to buy one is anyone has one laying around. The amount of work this machine has needed to get it running is amazing, it was full of dead caps, a few dead transistors and a few dead sensors, but it's been worthwhile repairing even if the money pushed into it is a lot more than it's worth now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1217 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:35 pm Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 Capstan motor eddieaudio Offline Send Email Stuart et al forgive me in advance for getting a little preachy (I just watched Evan Almighty)... While someone with a degree in business might have "advised" all of us to stop before we got started, the fact is these and lots of seemingly "worthless" items actually have value - it's the value we place on them, knowing what went in to making them and knowing what they can do. Modern business is about unrealistic growth, supposed profit without taking into consideration all of the negatives. Even if, at worst case, what we are doing is just one form of recycling. Now all we've got to do is support and embrace alternative energy to keep all this stuff powered. eddie ciletti > --B-tk9jPhuaQgozsNYjOvSwLQutZCPGha1ygr-JT > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Can anyone help me on a Capstan motor for this machine? Mine has a problem > with bearings which I cannot change, I would love to buy one is anyone has > one laying around. > > > > The amount of work this machine has needed to get it running is amazing, it > was full of dead caps, a few dead transistors and a few dead sensors, but > it's been worthwhile repairing even if the money pushed into it is a lot > more than it's worth now. > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1218 From: newmedia@... Date: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:49 pm Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 help request radsimple Offline Send Email Folks: There was a fairly detailed post about this a while back -- but on which list?? The PCM 3402 was the newer machine and, as I recall, had been "redesigned" in Japan largely by moving things around to make it a more competitive visual package against the Studers and other rivals of the time. It is a BIG (looking) deck. Richard has the whole lot that I once owned -- from Sony Studios in NYC -- so he will surely know the answer. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1219 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:51 am Subject: Problems Galore soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello, I've recently installed a diode bridge in an APR-5003. This is the small circuit board which has two diode bridges that are no longer available so I had to use a total of four diodes. I used an aluminum channel as a heatsink, wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating varnish. Upon powering up the machine, there were no lights that came on and the supply motor began fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a test AC cord with a breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow any fuses. After a few quick power ups, something began smoking in the power supply area and smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I wanted to get any ideas what to check. I know I really need to pull the supply and I will do that ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this is something I can fix or if I need to send the unit out. I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in the power supply and found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or corroded. The main transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are in good shape visually. I checked the other two bridges and they checked out OK. A little bit of history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a local TV station where it was used up until they had problems with it. Then it sat until my friend got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on but then he smelled smoke. At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be going on I would greatly appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope but without being able to turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking about sending the power supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. Obviously, I'm concerned though about finding out what's taking the supply out. Thanks, Tom --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1220 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 1:33 pm Subject: RE: Problems Galore vintage_reco... Offline Send Email I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can you remove the PSU as one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything like the machine I have you should be able to, this way you could take the lid off and switch it on, either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I know, its how the last fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU externally and checking the voltage rails, you may find there is something wrong with the internal electronics of the machine instead, my last fault was the capstan motor ran too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to the PSU, this smelled a bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on the PCM machine controls all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which damaged an IC. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Soundscape Studio Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore Hello, I've recently installed a diode bridge in an APR-5003. This is the small circuit board which has two diode bridges that are no longer available so I had to use a total of four diodes. I used an aluminum channel as a heatsink, wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating varnish. Upon powering up the machine, there were no lights that came on and the supply motor began fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a test AC cord with a breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow any fuses. After a few quick power ups, something began smoking in the power supply area and smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I wanted to get any ideas what to check. I know I really need to pull the supply and I will do that ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this is something I can fix or if I need to send the unit out. I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in the power supply and found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or corroded. The main transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are in good shape visually. I checked the other two bridges and they checked out OK. A little bit of history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a local TV station where it was used up until they had problems with it. Then it sat until my friend got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on but then he smelled smoke. At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be going on I would greatly appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope but without being able to turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking about sending the power supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. Obviously, I'm concerned though about finding out what's taking the supply out. Thanks, Tom --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1221 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:19 pm Subject: RE: Problems Galore soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be wrong! Tom --- Stuart Blacklock wrote: > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > you remove the PSU as > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > like the machine I have > you should be able to, this way you could take the > lid off and switch it on, > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > know, its how the last > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > externally and checking > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > wrong with the internal > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > was the capstan motor ran > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > the PSU, this smelled a > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > the PCM machine controls > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > damaged an IC. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Soundscape Studio > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > Hello, > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > APR-5003. This is the small > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > no longer available so I > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > varnish. Upon powering up > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > the supply motor began > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > test AC cord with a > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > any fuses. After a few > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > power supply area and > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > wanted to get any ideas > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > supply and I will do that > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > is something I can fix > or if I need to send the unit out. > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > the power supply and > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > corroded. The main > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > in good shape visually. > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > OK. A little bit of > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > local TV station where > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > it sat until my friend > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > but then he smelled > smoke. > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > going on I would greatly > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > but without being able to > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > about sending the power > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > Obviously, I'm concerned though > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > Thanks, > Tom > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > answers from someone who > knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1222 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 12:19 pm Subject: Re: Problems Galore ladewd Offline Send Email What is an AMD board? The APR has a RMD board and an ADM board, but I do not know of an AMD board. If I remember correctly there are no active components on the ADM board. The RMD board is the reel motor driver board on the rear of the machine. The ADM board is the audio motherboard that your channel cards plug into. The fact that your reel started spinning is telling me your problem is in the RMD. If its the RMD board, simply replacing the burned components may not buy you anything. My experience with those boards is they need to be re-capped and then replace all the failed components, including the regulators. If you have a reel spinning wildly, you have blown one or more of the drive transistors on the board. This is tricky to fix, because the transistors are configured so that you can't junction test individual transistors without taking them out of the circuit. You can however test one to see if any one of the transistors on that side are bad. The RMD is the most difficult board on the machine to repair. Also there are some low ohm resistors connected to these transistors which you have to lift to junction test them. If you miss one bad component, everything blows again as soon as the RMD turns on (after you hear the solenoids engage). It helps to keep your hand on the heatsink when the RMD turns on, so you can be ready to turn it off as fast as you can. Very frustrating. The design of the power supply sucks. You cannot evaluate the performance of the supply when its out of the machine. I used to have a long wire harness that I built which allowed me to test the supply out of the machine while still supplying a load for the supply. Later I built a passive load for all the voltages to test supplies. Of course I can't remember anything about the resistance and current draw calculations I used to build the thing. I had the load but have since disassembled it to use the resistors as power amp loads. I'm not sure who you can send APR parts to get repaired. Sony in the US purged all their machines long ago. I'm not certain about the other Sony offices. Good luck with it and buy several sets of the parts you're going to replace, you may need them. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board > looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I > can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned > out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a > fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be > wrong! > > Tom > > > --- Stuart Blacklock > wrote: > > > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > > you remove the PSU as > > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > > like the machine I have > > you should be able to, this way you could take the > > lid off and switch it on, > > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > > know, its how the last > > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > > externally and checking > > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > > wrong with the internal > > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > > was the capstan motor ran > > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > > the PSU, this smelled a > > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > > the PCM machine controls > > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > > damaged an IC. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of Soundscape Studio > > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > > APR-5003. This is the small > > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > > no longer available so I > > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > > varnish. Upon powering up > > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > > the supply motor began > > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > > test AC cord with a > > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > > any fuses. After a few > > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > > power supply area and > > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > > wanted to get any ideas > > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > > supply and I will do that > > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > > is something I can fix > > or if I need to send the unit out. > > > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > > the power supply and > > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > > corroded. The main > > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > > in good shape visually. > > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > > OK. A little bit of > > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > > local TV station where > > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > > it sat until my friend > > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > > but then he smelled > > smoke. > > > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > > going on I would greatly > > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > > but without being able to > > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > > about sending the power > > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > > Obviously, I'm concerned though > > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > > answers from someone who > > knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1223 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 12:23 pm Subject: Re: Problems Galore ladewd Offline Send Email On more thought, Steve Sadler at Blevins Audio may be able to help you out with this as far as repairing the board. Sometimes money is worth less than frustration. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > What is an AMD board? The APR has a RMD board and an ADM board, but > I do not know of an AMD board. If I remember correctly there are no > active components on the ADM board. The RMD board is the reel motor > driver board on the rear of the machine. The ADM board is the audio > motherboard that your channel cards plug into. The fact that your > reel started spinning is telling me your problem is in the RMD. > > If its the RMD board, simply replacing the burned components may not > buy you anything. My experience with those boards is they need to > be re-capped and then replace all the failed components, including > the regulators. If you have a reel spinning wildly, you have blown > one or more of the drive transistors on the board. This is tricky > to fix, because the transistors are configured so that you can't > junction test individual transistors without taking them out of the > circuit. You can however test one to see if any one of the > transistors on that side are bad. The RMD is the most difficult > board on the machine to repair. Also there are some low ohm > resistors connected to these transistors which you have to lift to > junction test them. If you miss one bad component, everything blows > again as soon as the RMD turns on (after you hear the solenoids > engage). It helps to keep your hand on the heatsink when the RMD > turns on, so you can be ready to turn it off as fast as you can. > Very frustrating. > > The design of the power supply sucks. You cannot evaluate the > performance of the supply when its out of the machine. I used to > have a long wire harness that I built which allowed me to test the > supply out of the machine while still supplying a load for the > supply. Later I built a passive load for all the voltages to test > supplies. Of course I can't remember anything about the resistance > and current draw calculations I used to build the thing. I had the > load but have since disassembled it to use the resistors as power > amp loads. > > I'm not sure who you can send APR parts to get repaired. Sony in > the US purged all their machines long ago. I'm not certain about > the other Sony offices. Good luck with it and buy several sets of > the parts you're going to replace, you may need them. > > Cary > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > wrote: > > > > Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board > > looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I > > can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned > > out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a > > fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be > > wrong! > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- Stuart Blacklock > > wrote: > > > > > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > > > you remove the PSU as > > > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > > > like the machine I have > > > you should be able to, this way you could take the > > > lid off and switch it on, > > > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > > > know, its how the last > > > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > > > externally and checking > > > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > > > wrong with the internal > > > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > > > was the capstan motor ran > > > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > > > the PSU, this smelled a > > > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > > > the PCM machine controls > > > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > > > damaged an IC. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of Soundscape Studio > > > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > > > APR-5003. This is the small > > > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > > > no longer available so I > > > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > > > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > > > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > > > varnish. Upon powering up > > > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > > > the supply motor began > > > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > > > test AC cord with a > > > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > > > any fuses. After a few > > > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > > > power supply area and > > > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > > > wanted to get any ideas > > > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > > > supply and I will do that > > > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > > > is something I can fix > > > or if I need to send the unit out. > > > > > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > > > the power supply and > > > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > > > corroded. The main > > > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > > > in good shape visually. > > > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > > > OK. A little bit of > > > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > > > local TV station where > > > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > > > it sat until my friend > > > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > > > but then he smelled > > > smoke. > > > > > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > > > going on I would greatly > > > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > > > but without being able to > > > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > > > about sending the power > > > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > > > Obviously, I'm concerned though > > > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tom > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > > > answers from someone who > > > knows. > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1224 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:26 am Subject: PCM-3404 = K1183? radsimple Offline Send Email Folks: There are two Sony K1183s up for auction tomorrow -- which appears to be the same as a PCM-3404. _http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/photo.php?photo=4340849_ (http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/photo.php?photo=4340849) Since this is the Sony 54th St. Studio, I presume the K1183 nomenclature is "Japanese." Does anyone know why there are two different "names" for the same equipment? Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1225 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 9:35 am Subject: Re: PCM-3404 = K1183? radsimple Offline Send Email Folks: Oops . . . PCM-3402 (I actually bought a 3202 from Sony Studios, along with 70 miles of digital tape, so I should remember these numbers.) Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1226 From: newmedia@... Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:47 am Subject: Re: PCM-3402 = K1183? radsimple Offline Send Email Folks: There is a UK studio that was selling 2x K1183s back in 2004 claiming that they were 20-bit machines. The PCM-3202/3402 are 16-bit machines. Could the K1183 be an upgrade to MORE bits? I actually have 2x K1184s (yes, from Sony Studios) which the same UK sale claims to be 20-bit. The K1184s are outboard AD/DAs that use BB PCM58P (18-bit) chips for DA and the famous Apogee 944S low-pass filters as well as the DBX 18000CA (18-bit?) and VLSI DBX 20C10 (??) on the AD cards. I wonder where all the documentation from the 54th Street Studio is going -- no, it's not up for auction. Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1227 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 3:39 pm Subject: RE: PCM-3402 = K1183? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email On the PCM-3402 the DAD board holds two ADC76KH A/D converters which are 16 bit, on the SEP ( replay head board), CXD1026, couldn't find any info on these but I would have thought they are 16 bit too so there Is a big difference. I know what machine I would like to get now :-P, just wish that those recorders where for sale in the UK, I would have gone for them. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of newmedia@... Sent: 09 September 2007 19:47 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] PCM-3402 = K1183? Folks: There is a UK studio that was selling 2x K1183s back in 2004 claiming that they were 20-bit machines. The PCM-3202/3402 are 16-bit machines. Could the K1183 be an upgrade to MORE bits? I actually have 2x K1184s (yes, from Sony Studios) which the same UK sale claims to be 20-bit. The K1184s are outboard AD/DAs that use BB PCM58P (18-bit) chips for DA and the famous Apogee 944S low-pass filters as well as the DBX 18000CA (18-bit?) and VLSI DBX 20C10 (??) on the AD cards. I wonder where all the documentation from the 54th Street Studio is going -- no, it's not up for auction. Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1228 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 2:01 pm Subject: RE: PCM-3404 = K1183? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, The machine looks like the PCM-3402, I have just looked over and over the pictures and cannot see any difference, I can't see any writing on the machine so it's hard to say which country it's from if Japanese. Are you thinking of going for one or both of these machines? I would love to buy one to use for spares on mine but the shipping costs would be too high. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of newmedia@... Sent: 09 September 2007 18:35 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] PCM-3404 = K1183? Folks: Oops . . . PCM-3402 (I actually bought a 3202 from Sony Studios, along with 70 miles of digital tape, so I should remember these numbers.) Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1229 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:01 am Subject: Re: Re: Problems Galore soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Thanks! Yes, it was the RMD board...I misspelled. What you wrote is dead on. I attempted to replace and test components on the board but to no avail. It's my friends machine so we'll see what he wants to do with it. Tom ladewd wrote: On more thought, Steve Sadler at Blevins Audio may be able to help you out with this as far as repairing the board. Sometimes money is worth less than frustration. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > What is an AMD board? The APR has a RMD board and an ADM board, but > I do not know of an AMD board. If I remember correctly there are no > active components on the ADM board. The RMD board is the reel motor > driver board on the rear of the machine. The ADM board is the audio > motherboard that your channel cards plug into. The fact that your > reel started spinning is telling me your problem is in the RMD. > > If its the RMD board, simply replacing the burned components may not > buy you anything. My experience with those boards is they need to > be re-capped and then replace all the failed components, including > the regulators. If you have a reel spinning wildly, you have blown > one or more of the drive transistors on the board. This is tricky > to fix, because the transistors are configured so that you can't > junction test individual transistors without taking them out of the > circuit. You can however test one to see if any one of the > transistors on that side are bad. The RMD is the most difficult > board on the machine to repair. Also there are some low ohm > resistors connected to these transistors which you have to lift to > junction test them. If you miss one bad component, everything blows > again as soon as the RMD turns on (after you hear the solenoids > engage). It helps to keep your hand on the heatsink when the RMD > turns on, so you can be ready to turn it off as fast as you can. > Very frustrating. > > The design of the power supply sucks. You cannot evaluate the > performance of the supply when its out of the machine. I used to > have a long wire harness that I built which allowed me to test the > supply out of the machine while still supplying a load for the > supply. Later I built a passive load for all the voltages to test > supplies. Of course I can't remember anything about the resistance > and current draw calculations I used to build the thing. I had the > load but have since disassembled it to use the resistors as power > amp loads. > > I'm not sure who you can send APR parts to get repaired. Sony in > the US purged all their machines long ago. I'm not certain about > the other Sony offices. Good luck with it and buy several sets of > the parts you're going to replace, you may need them. > > Cary > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > wrote: > > > > Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board > > looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I > > can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned > > out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a > > fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be > > wrong! > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- Stuart Blacklock > > wrote: > > > > > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > > > you remove the PSU as > > > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > > > like the machine I have > > > you should be able to, this way you could take the > > > lid off and switch it on, > > > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > > > know, its how the last > > > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > > > externally and checking > > > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > > > wrong with the internal > > > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > > > was the capstan motor ran > > > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > > > the PSU, this smelled a > > > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > > > the PCM machine controls > > > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > > > damaged an IC. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of Soundscape Studio > > > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > > > APR-5003. This is the small > > > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > > > no longer available so I > > > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > > > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > > > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > > > varnish. Upon powering up > > > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > > > the supply motor began > > > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > > > test AC cord with a > > > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > > > any fuses. After a few > > > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > > > power supply area and > > > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > > > wanted to get any ideas > > > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > > > supply and I will do that > > > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > > > is something I can fix > > > or if I need to send the unit out. > > > > > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > > > the power supply and > > > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > > > corroded. The main > > > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > > > in good shape visually. > > > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > > > OK. A little bit of > > > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > > > local TV station where > > > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > > > it sat until my friend > > > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > > > but then he smelled > > > smoke. > > > > > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > > > going on I would greatly > > > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > > > but without being able to > > > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > > > about sending the power > > > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > > > Obviously, I'm concerned though > > > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tom > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > > > answers from someone who > > > knows. > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > > > --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1230 From: "Brian" Date: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:41 pm Subject: Re: Problems Galore criticsdrmr Offline Send Email Yeah, that's my unit that Tom has been helping with. I think it's time to retire that unit for parts and just work on getting another unit. This particular machine landed in my lap a few years ago when it was being wheeled into the dumpster by the maintainance guy at a local TV station. The unit has less than 2,000 hours on it and it's in beautiful shape cosmetically. Oh, well! If any of you are selling an APR-5003... let me know cause I'm now in the market. It doesn't have to be the prettiest girl, but she does have to be in good running shape. Brian This is a great resource and I'd like to thank Richard for starting this group and everyone else for their contributions. I've learned alot about this machine by listening to you guys. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Thanks! Yes, it was the RMD board...I misspelled. What you wrote is dead on. I attempted to replace and test components on the board but to no avail. It's my friends machine so we'll see what he wants to do with it. > > Tom > > ladewd wrote: > On more thought, Steve Sadler at Blevins Audio may be able to help > you out with this as far as repairing the board. Sometimes money is > worth less than frustration. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > What is an AMD board? The APR has a RMD board and an ADM board, > but > > I do not know of an AMD board. If I remember correctly there are > no > > active components on the ADM board. The RMD board is the reel > motor > > driver board on the rear of the machine. The ADM board is the > audio > > motherboard that your channel cards plug into. The fact that your > > reel started spinning is telling me your problem is in the RMD. > > > > If its the RMD board, simply replacing the burned components may > not > > buy you anything. My experience with those boards is they need to > > be re-capped and then replace all the failed components, including > > the regulators. If you have a reel spinning wildly, you have > blown > > one or more of the drive transistors on the board. This is tricky > > to fix, because the transistors are configured so that you can't > > junction test individual transistors without taking them out of > the > > circuit. You can however test one to see if any one of the > > transistors on that side are bad. The RMD is the most difficult > > board on the machine to repair. Also there are some low ohm > > resistors connected to these transistors which you have to lift to > > junction test them. If you miss one bad component, everything > blows > > again as soon as the RMD turns on (after you hear the solenoids > > engage). It helps to keep your hand on the heatsink when the RMD > > turns on, so you can be ready to turn it off as fast as you can. > > Very frustrating. > > > > The design of the power supply sucks. You cannot evaluate the > > performance of the supply when its out of the machine. I used to > > have a long wire harness that I built which allowed me to test the > > supply out of the machine while still supplying a load for the > > supply. Later I built a passive load for all the voltages to test > > supplies. Of course I can't remember anything about the > resistance > > and current draw calculations I used to build the thing. I had > the > > load but have since disassembled it to use the resistors as power > > amp loads. > > > > I'm not sure who you can send APR parts to get repaired. Sony in > > the US purged all their machines long ago. I'm not certain about > > the other Sony offices. Good luck with it and buy several sets of > > the parts you're going to replace, you may need them. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > > wrote: > > > > > > Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board > > > looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I > > > can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned > > > out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a > > > fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be > > > wrong! > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > --- Stuart Blacklock > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > > > > you remove the PSU as > > > > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > > > > like the machine I have > > > > you should be able to, this way you could take the > > > > lid off and switch it on, > > > > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > > > > know, its how the last > > > > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > > > > externally and checking > > > > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > > > > wrong with the internal > > > > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > > > > was the capstan motor ran > > > > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > > > > the PSU, this smelled a > > > > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > > > > the PCM machine controls > > > > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > > > > damaged an IC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > > Of Soundscape Studio > > > > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > > > > APR-5003. This is the small > > > > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > > > > no longer available so I > > > > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > > > > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > > > > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > > > > varnish. Upon powering up > > > > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > > > > the supply motor began > > > > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > > > > test AC cord with a > > > > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > > > > any fuses. After a few > > > > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > > > > power supply area and > > > > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > > > > wanted to get any ideas > > > > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > > > > supply and I will do that > > > > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > > > > is something I can fix > > > > or if I need to send the unit out. > > > > > > > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > > > > the power supply and > > > > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > > > > corroded. The main > > > > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > > > > in good shape visually. > > > > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > > > > OK. A little bit of > > > > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > > > > local TV station where > > > > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > > > > it sat until my friend > > > > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > > > > but then he smelled > > > > smoke. > > > > > > > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > > > > going on I would greatly > > > > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > > > > but without being able to > > > > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > > > > about sending the power > > > > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > > > > Obviously, I'm concerned though > > > > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > > > > answers from someone who > > > > knows. > > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > _______________ > > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > > story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1231 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:11 am Subject: Re: Re: Problems Galore eddieaudio Offline Send Email Tom, If you haven't solved the problem yet, perhaps this will help. I have a good deal of experience with the RMD Reel Motor Driver board. The issue is oscillation - it makes the transistors get really hot to the point of unsoldering themselves. My personal notes have a 56pF cap in parallel with the feedback resistors R29 and R53 on the two TL074 opamps, IC3 (4/4) and IC4 (1/4) respectively. I have generally not found the transistors to be bad though I often replace them, but I've never quite understood what changed to make the circuit so oscillation-prone. The motors are a very reactive load - but I did all of the repairs off-site, borrowing a client's "known good" machine to test the boards in. I do know that the fix works because I did several of them and never heard a peep since... I have also found the 15-volt regulators get really hot and this doesn't do the capacitors in that area any good - even though sony tamed the 24 volt supply feeding the regulators with a 10-ohm resistor in series with a zener (R3, R4, D18, D19). I relocated the regulators to the heatsink and then replace the local caps - C1, C2, C3, C4, with a switching grade (low impedance at high frequency) type - because a little oscillation at the regulators can get amplified and any oscillation on that board shows up everywhere. You might want to confirm that bipolar 24 volts is getting to the card and that bipolar 15 volts is getting to the opamps. good luck. eddie ciletti > Thanks! Yes, it was the RMD board...I misspelled. What you wrote is > dead on. I attempted to replace and test components on the board but > to no avail. It's my friends machine so we'll see what he wants to do > with it. > > Tom > > ladewd > wrote: > On more thought, Steve Sadler at Blevins Audio may be able to help > you out with this as far as repairing the board. Sometimes money is > worth less than frustration. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > What is an AMD board? The APR has a RMD board and an ADM board, > but > > I do not know of an AMD board. If I remember correctly there are > no > > active components on the ADM board. The RMD board is the reel > motor > > driver board on the rear of the machine. The ADM board is the > audio > > motherboard that your channel cards plug into. The fact that your > > reel started spinning is telling me your problem is in the RMD. > > > > If its the RMD board, simply replacing the burned components may > not > > buy you anything. My experience with those boards is they need to > > be re-capped and then replace all the failed components, including > > the regulators. If you have a reel spinning wildly, you have > blown > > one or more of the drive transistors on the board. This is tricky > > to fix, because the transistors are configured so that you can't > > junction test individual transistors without taking them out of > the > > circuit. You can however test one to see if any one of the > > transistors on that side are bad. The RMD is the most difficult > > board on the machine to repair. Also there are some low ohm > > resistors connected to these transistors which you have to lift to > > junction test them. If you miss one bad component, everything > blows > > again as soon as the RMD turns on (after you hear the solenoids > > engage). It helps to keep your hand on the heatsink when the RMD > > turns on, so you can be ready to turn it off as fast as you can. > > Very frustrating. > > > > The design of the power supply sucks. You cannot evaluate the > > performance of the supply when its out of the machine. I used to > > have a long wire harness that I built which allowed me to test the > > supply out of the machine while still supplying a load for the > > supply. Later I built a passive load for all the voltages to test > > supplies. Of course I can't remember anything about the > resistance > > and current draw calculations I used to build the thing. I had > the > > load but have since disassembled it to use the resistors as power > > amp loads. > > > > I'm not sure who you can send APR parts to get repaired. Sony in > > the US purged all their machines long ago. I'm not certain about > > the other Sony offices. Good luck with it and buy several sets of > > the parts you're going to replace, you may need them. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > Soundscape Studio > > wrote: > > > > > > Well it looks like I found the problem. The AMD board > > > looks like one of the regulators is going. So, when I > > > can, I plan on replacing both regulators. It burned > > > out one resistor and probably the diode so should be a > > > fairly quick fix. Then we'll see what else may be > > > wrong! > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > --- Stuart Blacklock > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have the PCM3402 which I believe is the same, can > > > > you remove the PSU as > > > > one lump and test it on the bench? If it's anything > > > > like the machine I have > > > > you should be able to, this way you could take the > > > > lid off and switch it on, > > > > either wait for smoke or a bright flash! Bit crude I > > > > know, its how the last > > > > fault was found on my machine. By powering the PSU > > > > externally and checking > > > > the voltage rails, you may find there is something > > > > wrong with the internal > > > > electronics of the machine instead, my last fault > > > > was the capstan motor ran > > > > too fast, turned out to be an IC on a board close to > > > > the PSU, this smelled a > > > > bit too, the board In the back close to the PSU on > > > > the PCM machine controls > > > > all the motors, the capacitors where the fault which > > > > damaged an IC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On Behalf > > > > Of Soundscape Studio > > > > Sent: 05 September 2007 14:51 > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Problems Galore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I've recently installed a diode bridge in an > > > > APR-5003. This is the small > > > > circuit board which has two diode bridges that are > > > > no longer available so I > > > > had to use a total of four diodes. I used an > > > > aluminum channel as a heatsink, > > > > wired everything up, then sprayed with insulating > > > > varnish. Upon powering up > > > > the machine, there were no lights that came on and > > > > the supply motor began > > > > fast-forwarding with or without reels on. I used a > > > > test AC cord with a > > > > breaker installed which did not trip nor did I blow > > > > any fuses. After a few > > > > quick power ups, something began smoking in the > > > > power supply area and > > > > smelled. I have not yet pulled the supply out but I > > > > wanted to get any ideas > > > > what to check. I know I really need to pull the > > > > supply and I will do that > > > > ASAP but I need to get an idea (if possible) if this > > > > is something I can fix > > > > or if I need to send the unit out. > > > > > > > > I triple-checked (visually) all of the components in > > > > the power supply and > > > > found nothing that looked like it had gotten hot or > > > > corroded. The main > > > > transformer, caps, other diode bridges, etc. all are > > > > in good shape visually. > > > > I checked the other two bridges and they checked out > > > > OK. A little bit of > > > > history on this unit: My friend got this unit from a > > > > local TV station where > > > > it was used up until they had problems with it. Then > > > > it sat until my friend > > > > got it. He had powered it up and the lights came on > > > > but then he smelled > > > > smoke. > > > > > > > > At this point if anyone has ideas about what may be > > > > going on I would greatly > > > > appreciate it. I've got the schematics and a scope > > > > but without being able to > > > > turn it on I can't do much with it. We're thinking > > > > about sending the power > > > > supply in so we know we've got a solid PSU. > > > > Obviously, I'm concerned though > > > > about finding out what's taking the supply out. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship > > > > answers from someone who > > > > knows. > > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > _______________ > > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > > story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on > Yahoo! TV. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.13/998 - Release Date: 9/10/2007 8:48 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1232 From: "Steve Hogan" Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:34 am Subject: AES Standard Polarity Sawtooth Generator available tss_steve_990 Offline Send Email Fellow Tape Recorder enthusiasts, I have recently developed a precision, crystal-controlled polarity sawtooth generator circuit that conforms to the AES standard for measuring polarity on analog tape recorders. After we use it with a flux loop to determine that our machines have correct polarity, it is our intention to record the polarity sawtooth as part of the alignment tones at the head of our master tapes. This will allow us to check polarity and double check speed accuracy when our masters are played back on other machines during mastering. I will be making up a PCB for this circuit, and I thought there might be some interest among the members of the group to having a similar generator in their arsenal of toys. More details below for those who are interested: The waveform shape precisely conforms to the AES standard in that it ramps up for 40% of the period, then falls for 10% of the period and then stays at baseline for 50% of the period. The waveform itself is generated by charging and discharging a film cap with 2 precision current sources. The waveform timing is crystal controlled and the charge and discharge timing is precisely digitally divided to guarantee that the waveshape is correct. My circuit has only one deviation from the published AES standard. I use 997Hz instead of a 1kHz frequency, in order to make the generator more useful for checking polarity on digital systems as well as analog tape systems. It would be possible to use a different crystal and divider set up if exactly 1 kHz frequency were to be required. Because the frequency is crystal controlled, it can also serve as a reliable 997Hz (or alternately 1kHz) frequency standard to check speed accuracy recorded tapes played back on various machines. The circuit requires + and - 7 to 18 Volts. An onboard 5 Volt Regulator supplies 5 Volts to the crystal oscillator and other digital circuitry from the positive 7 to 18 volt power supply. It will use a OPA2134 opamp output capable of easily driving a 600 Ohm load to just under clipping level as determined by the rail voltage used. The current demand is low enough to allow the circuit to run a couple of hours on 2 ea. 9 volt batteries, but the circuit wasn't designed to be super low power to be always battery operated. In order to drive a small speaker for microphone polarity checking and to drive flux loops with more gusto, I may use an 8 pin power amp capable of driving 8 Ohms. That will be real hard on a battery supply. My intention is to be able to use this signal generator as the send half of a general purpose polarity checker. I have in the works a hand-held auto-ranging receiver which automatically reads the sawtooth and lights a bicolor LED Green for OK or Red for Reversed Polarity. The receiver can run on a 9 Volt Alkaline battery for a while and will shut itself off when not used for 2 minutes. Together the system should be able to check polarity on any kind of recorder, microphone, or aux gear very quickly and reliably without having to get out the scope. I will be making a minimum of 2 PC boards for my own use. I am thinking that the best way to make them available to others is to sell a stuffed and tested PC board, that can be mounted in a box or chassis of your own choosing, or a kit of parts, or just a PCB. I don't think I want to get into a finished box with power supply, etc. except for my own. Parts cost somewhere between $15 and $25. PCB will be maybe $10 to $20 depending on quantity ordered. These would be professionally manufactured double sided 0.062" thick glass epoxy PC boards with plated through holes, but no solder mask or silk screen. Some legends like capacitor polarity and IC pin 1 are etched in the copper, so it won't be hard to build. Assembled and tested PCB may be $50 to $75.00. These are rough, low quantity estimates, but I realize that there needs to be some kind of ballpark price to determine the level of interest. I obviously don't plan to get rich on this, but I thought I might throw it out there in order to make the "official" polarity waveform more easily available. E-mail me if you are interested, because I need to order the boards ASAP. Steve Hogan stevehogan at soundsteward.com Steven A. Hogan The Sound Steward 1606 West Southgate Avenue Fullerton, CA 92833-3851 www.soundsteward.com (714) 871-6636 phone (714) 904-6636 cell (714) 871-0640 fax Steven A. Hogan The Sound Steward 1606 West Southgate Avenue Fullerton, CA 92833-3851 www.soundsteward.com (714) 871-6636 phone (714) 904-6636 cell (714) 871-0640 fax [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1233 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 5:21 pm Subject: APR-5003V E.00.4 richardlhess Offline Send Email OK, I searched the manuals and found errors 1-3 on power-up. What is four? Machine works, but STOP blinks. Anyone know where this info is hiding? Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1234 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:44 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Richard, I can't remember clearly, but I vaugely remember a value has to be stored in a memory location. Just start storing stuff and you'll find one of the locations will make it stop blinking. I'm pretty sure its in the area of 0-29. I once new all this stuff by memory. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > OK, I searched the manuals and found errors 1-3 on power-up. What is > four? Machine works, but STOP blinks. > > Anyone know where this info is hiding? > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1235 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Mon Oct 8, 2007 3:05 am Subject: PCM-3402 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Can anyone help me with a circuit diagram for the PSU of the PCM-3402? I have the service manual but it's not in there and I have a problem where my -15V rail is 15.7V, and the -24V rail is -29.9V. I have tried to adjust the trimmers to correct the voltages but it's not worked, I am also getting a lot of problems with this machine which I think stem from the PSU. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1236 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:20 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 ladewd Offline Send Email Well, Did it work for you Richard? I seem to remember when you upgrade firmware or change batteries, the CPU gets confused because there is scrambled data in the RAM. The E004 is a RAM integrity check. If I remember correctly, entering just about anything in a memory location re-initializes the contents of the RAM and the E004 and blinking stop light should go away. I hope I'm remembering this clearly. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > OK, I searched the manuals and found errors 1-3 on power-up. What is > four? Machine works, but STOP blinks. > > Anyone know where this info is hiding? > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1237 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:06 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, I entered 00 into 00-26 and it didn't help. Any other thoughts? Thanks, though! Cheers, Richard At 02:20 PM 2007-10-10, you wrote: >Well, Did it work for you Richard? > >I seem to remember when you upgrade firmware or change batteries, the >CPU gets confused because there is scrambled data in the RAM. The >E004 is a RAM integrity check. If I remember correctly, entering just >about anything in a memory location re-initializes the contents of the >RAM and the E004 and blinking stop light should go away. I hope I'm >remembering this clearly. > >Cary > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1238 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:45 am Subject: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 ladewd Offline Send Email Not at the moment Richard. I just had yet some more surgery on my foot. I think I'm going to be an invalid the rest of my life! Once I can hobble into my garage, I'll check to see if I still have the tech bulletin regrading that issue. I may not though. I bet Steve still has it, but he's not around to ask these days. Let me drop Greg Henwood an email and see if he remembers. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > I entered 00 into 00-26 and it didn't help. Any other thoughts? > > Thanks, though! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:20 PM 2007-10-10, you wrote: > >Well, Did it work for you Richard? > > > >I seem to remember when you upgrade firmware or change batteries, the > >CPU gets confused because there is scrambled data in the RAM. The > >E004 is a RAM integrity check. If I remember correctly, entering just > >about anything in a memory location re-initializes the contents of the > >RAM and the E004 and blinking stop light should go away. I hope I'm > >remembering this clearly. > > > >Cary > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1239 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:51 am Subject: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 ladewd Offline Send Email While I was writing the email to Greg, I got a flash. Try locking the machine up to timecode once and see if that doesn't clear it out. I'm waiting on a reply from Greg to see if he still has the memo. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > I entered 00 into 00-26 and it didn't help. Any other thoughts? > > Thanks, though! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:20 PM 2007-10-10, you wrote: > >Well, Did it work for you Richard? > > > >I seem to remember when you upgrade firmware or change batteries, the > >CPU gets confused because there is scrambled data in the RAM. The > >E004 is a RAM integrity check. If I remember correctly, entering just > >about anything in a memory location re-initializes the contents of the > >RAM and the E004 and blinking stop light should go away. I hope I'm > >remembering this clearly. > > > >Cary > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1240 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:26 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003V E.00.4 ladewd Offline Send Email Greg said the machine needed to be synchronized to LTC or VITC once, then the error will clear out. Give it a shot and let me know if it works. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > I entered 00 into 00-26 and it didn't help. Any other thoughts? > > Thanks, though! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:20 PM 2007-10-10, you wrote: > >Well, Did it work for you Richard? > > > >I seem to remember when you upgrade firmware or change batteries, the > >CPU gets confused because there is scrambled data in the RAM. The > >E004 is a RAM integrity check. If I remember correctly, entering just > >about anything in a memory location re-initializes the contents of the > >RAM and the E004 and blinking stop light should go away. I hope I'm > >remembering this clearly. > > > >Cary > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1241 From: Dana White Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:42 pm Subject: freq. graphs djwaudio Offline Send Email http://endino.com/graphs/index.html Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1242 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:38 am Subject: RE: freq. graphs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I think 30 ips can look better than what I see in this graph..... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana White Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:43 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] freq. graphs http://endino.com/graphs/index.html Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1243 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:38 am Subject: Re: freq. graphs rtymeout Offline Send Email Good Morning, My name is Craig and I am a new member of your group. There is a Sony APR-5002 listed on Ebay...actually, it has been relisted twice. The machine showed up as an APR-5003 twice...and now a 5002...same pictures. What is the difference between the various 5000 series? I am fortunate enough to own an MCI/Sony JH-110C with very few hours on it. I am interested in a companion unit for it which can be converted for use with 1/2 inch tape. I am not sure if the listing is overpriced...it dropped from $3400.00 to $2400.00. I suppose that the value is in the eye of the beholder. In any case, I would appreciate input from the group and I thank you for allowing me to join. Enjoy your day! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from Dana White : -------------- http://endino.com/graphs/index.html Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1244 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:21 pm Subject: RE: freq. graphs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I purchased a APR-24 24 track machine in excellent condition for $2800 on ebay, so I would think that is pretty pricey for a 2 track machine, A 5002 is a regular 2 track machine, the 5003 is a machine w/ time code in addition to the 2 audio tracks.. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:38 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] freq. graphs Good Morning, My name is Craig and I am a new member of your group. There is a Sony APR-5002 listed on Ebay...actually, it has been relisted twice. The machine showed up as an APR-5003 twice...and now a 5002...same pictures. What is the difference between the various 5000 series? I am fortunate enough to own an MCI/Sony JH-110C with very few hours on it. I am interested in a companion unit for it which can be converted for use with 1/2 inch tape. I am not sure if the listing is overpriced...it dropped from $3400.00 to $2400.00. I suppose that the value is in the eye of the beholder. In any case, I would appreciate input from the group and I thank you for allowing me to join. Enjoy your day! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from Dana White >: -------------- http://endino.com/graphs/index.html Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1245 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm Subject: Re: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Craig, You ask a good question and some are subtle and others are less so. I'm sure that Cary or Scott will provide better information, but here are a few things I keep in mind when buying a machine. (1) Models are 5001, 5002, 5003, 5003V. 5001 is a mono machine. 5002 is a stereo machine, 5003 is a timecode machine. 5003V is a video-friendly timecode machine. (2) 5003s and 5003Vs are generally more desirable partially because the use in a post production room was lower than in a radio station. (3) Make sure you get a machine with convertible guides. The older one-piece rotating guides limit you to 1/4-inch. (4) Make sure you get a machine with ceramic lifters--they wear better and there may be magnetic reasons to not have the metal lifters...that's a long story and I'm not sure of the magnetic issues, but the wear issues are real. (5) Software should be P4.02.01.6 for a high-priced machine. P4.02.01.5 has a bug that reverts to the high-speed speed settings when you change speed even if a head assembly has the low speed switch set. You need to change speeds to the correct speed for the low speed setting and then do a power cycle and it will be fine. (6) Make sure the heads are in good shape. (7) I don't know if those graphs were done with the wideface Applied Magnetics heads or the Woelke heads. Timecode machines always came with Woelke heads, but the Applied Magnetics wideface heads are excellent--and may be slightly better than the Woelke--they were sold to have better low frequency performance, though the Woelke is very good for its size. I don't know about the relative gap length of the Woelke and the Applied Magnetics. If you wish to use standard 5/8-inch heads such as Nortronics, then get a machine with Woelke heads as the head mounting for the Applied Magnetics is quite different. I am sure there are other items of interest that I'll think of after pressing "send" At 03:38 AM 2007-10-25, c.tayerle@... wrote: >Good Morning, > >My name is Craig and I am a new member of your group. There is a Sony >APR-5002 listed on Ebay...actually, it has been relisted twice. The >machine showed up as an APR-5003 twice...and now a 5002...same >pictures. What is the difference between the various 5000 series? I >am fortunate enough to own an MCI/Sony JH-110C with very few hours >on it. I am interested in a companion unit for it which can be >converted for use with 1/2 inch tape. >I am not sure if the listing is overpriced...it dropped from >$3400.00 to $2400.00. I suppose that the value is in the eye of the >beholder. In any case, I would appreciate input from the group and I >thank you for allowing me to join. > >Enjoy your day! > >Craig J. Tayerle > >-------------- Original message from Dana White >: -------------- > >http://endino.com/graphs/index.html > >Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. > >Best regards, >Dana > >Dana J. White >specializedmastering.com >(508) 654-1490 >(508) 872-9478 > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1246 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:47 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on the meter bridge as well.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:01 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs Hello, Craig, You ask a good question and some are subtle and others are less so. I'm sure that Cary or Scott will provide better information, but here are a few things I keep in mind when buying a machine. (1) Models are 5001, 5002, 5003, 5003V. 5001 is a mono machine. 5002 is a stereo machine, 5003 is a timecode machine. 5003V is a video-friendly timecode machine. (2) 5003s and 5003Vs are generally more desirable partially because the use in a post production room was lower than in a radio station. (3) Make sure you get a machine with convertible guides. The older one-piece rotating guides limit you to 1/4-inch. (4) Make sure you get a machine with ceramic lifters--they wear better and there may be magnetic reasons to not have the metal lifters...that's a long story and I'm not sure of the magnetic issues, but the wear issues are real. (5) Software should be P4.02.01.6 for a high-priced machine. P4.02.01.5 has a bug that reverts to the high-speed speed settings when you change speed even if a head assembly has the low speed switch set. You need to change speeds to the correct speed for the low speed setting and then do a power cycle and it will be fine. (6) Make sure the heads are in good shape. (7) I don't know if those graphs were done with the wideface Applied Magnetics heads or the Woelke heads. Timecode machines always came with Woelke heads, but the Applied Magnetics wideface heads are excellent--and may be slightly better than the Woelke--they were sold to have better low frequency performance, though the Woelke is very good for its size. I don't know about the relative gap length of the Woelke and the Applied Magnetics. If you wish to use standard 5/8-inch heads such as Nortronics, then get a machine with Woelke heads as the head mounting for the Applied Magnetics is quite different. I am sure there are other items of interest that I'll think of after pressing "send" At 03:38 AM 2007-10-25, c.tayerle@... wrote: >Good Morning, > >My name is Craig and I am a new member of your group. There is a Sony >APR-5002 listed on Ebay...actually, it has been relisted twice. The >machine showed up as an APR-5003 twice...and now a 5002...same >pictures. What is the difference between the various 5000 series? I >am fortunate enough to own an MCI/Sony JH-110C with very few hours >on it. I am interested in a companion unit for it which can be >converted for use with 1/2 inch tape. >I am not sure if the listing is overpriced...it dropped from >$3400.00 to $2400.00. I suppose that the value is in the eye of the >beholder. In any case, I would appreciate input from the group and I >thank you for allowing me to join. > >Enjoy your day! > >Craig J. Tayerle > >-------------- Original message from Dana White > >: -------------- > >http://endino.com/graphs/index.html > >Interesting graphs. The APR looks pretty solid at 15ips. > >Best regards, >Dana > >Dana J. White >specializedmastering.com >(508) 654-1490 >(508) 872-9478 > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1247 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:35 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on >the meter bridge as well.... See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... 5001 - 1 meter 5002 - 2 meters 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer controls) It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and not be able to use it. Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got all the pieces... There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in the manual which I have posted online. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1248 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:13 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..but to answer his question, the one on eBay is a 5002, since it doesn't have the third meter...assuming I found the one on eBay he was looking at for $2400. It is NOT a 5003, and lacks the TC hardware quoted in the eBay ad. Buyer beware on eBay, as always.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on >the meter bridge as well.... See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... 5001 - 1 meter 5002 - 2 meters 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer controls) It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and not be able to use it. Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got all the pieces... There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in the manual which I have posted online. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1249 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:44 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! Out of curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine actually be? I do not need time code and according to the seller, he has the expansion card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later version machine. I plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in a position to pick the machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 console that is waiting for me in storage. Again, thank you all! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Scott Phillips" : -------------- ..but to answer his question, the one on eBay is a 5002, since it doesn't have the third meter...assuming I found the one on eBay he was looking at for $2400. It is NOT a 5003, and lacks the TC hardware quoted in the eBay ad. Buyer beware on eBay, as always.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on >the meter bridge as well.... See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... 5001 - 1 meter 5002 - 2 meters 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer controls) It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and not be able to use it. Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got all the pieces... There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in the manual which I have posted online. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1250 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:41 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Craig, To be honest, I've never paid more than $500 for any tape machine other than Nakamichi Dragon cassette machines (about $800 each) and the Sony APR-16. While I think paying more than $500 now as they get scarcer might not be a bad idea, I think $2400 is crazy, but I've noted a rash of these at that price not selling on ePay. You don't need an EXPANSION CARD for 1/2-inch use, you need three cap plates for the rotating guides and a half-inch 2-track head assembly. One guy found out he really had to hit the machine hard to make it sound "analog" -- his first comment was that it sounded too "digital" when he recorded on it. When he raised the operating level, he was getting the effect he was looking for. I'm far more interested in helping people use these machines to get stuff off tape than to put more stuff on tape...sorry. I think it's late in the game to continue creating in analog. If you do, expect hefty costs in the future to preserve it, if you want it preserved...at least that's my perspective. Cheers, Richard At 07:44 PM 2007-10-25, you wrote: >Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! >Out of curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine >actually be? I do not need time code and according to the seller, he >has the expansion card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later >version machine. I plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in >a position to pick the machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 >console that is waiting for me in storage. Again, thank you all! > >Craig J. Tayerle Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1251 From: newmedia@... Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:23 pm Subject: Re: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Yes, $2400 *is* crazy and YES no one will pay this -- unless they are crazy. Obviously multi-tracks often sell for more and 1/4" Ampex 102's or Studer 820's can go for $1000 more-or-less. A pair of 24-track Studers recently went for $4000 each at the Sony Studio auction. So $500 seems to be a reasonable price for a 2-track Sony. Needlesstosay, what you are buying is the headblock and you should expect to spend another $X00 to get the machine into running order (unless you can do that yourself.) Mark Stahlman New York City ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1252 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:55 pm Subject: Re: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs eddieaudio Offline Send Email My own "modern" analog tape machine experiences are similar to Richard's. Late model tape machines plus modern high-output tapes really do need to be driven hard to sound like tape. With machines like the studer A-827, this is partly due to the heads (according to Mike Spitz, those heads are particularly hard - good for long wear but not as good sounding as softer heads). The electronics are way different from earlier studer machines (like the A-80 and A-800). That said, I taught a class last summer - Re-recording the Beatles (music) using two half-inch four track machines and bouncing between them. We ran at 15 IPS on a 3M M-80 (prototype machine that never saw production that was basically an M-79), using NOS AMPEX 499 (don't laugh). The level was 3dB over 250nWb/m, IEC EQ. */That/* sounded just like the analog tape I remember. The band consisted of student volunteers. You can hear two of the songs at the link below. http://www.tangible-technology.com/music/beatles/session/mixes.html eddie > Hi, Craig, > > To be honest, I've never paid more than $500 for any tape machine > other than Nakamichi Dragon cassette machines (about $800 each) and > the Sony APR-16. While I think paying more than $500 now as they get > scarcer might not be a bad idea, I think $2400 is crazy, but I've > noted a rash of these at that price not selling on ePay. > > You don't need an EXPANSION CARD for 1/2-inch use, you need three cap > plates for the rotating guides and a half-inch 2-track head assembly. > > One guy found out he really had to hit the machine hard to make it > sound "analog" -- his first comment was that it sounded too "digital" > when he recorded on it. When he raised the operating level, he was > getting the effect he was looking for. > > I'm far more interested in helping people use these machines to get > stuff off tape than to put more stuff on tape...sorry. I think it's > late in the game to continue creating in analog. If you do, expect > hefty costs in the future to preserve it, if you want it > preserved...at least that's my perspective. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:44 PM 2007-10-25, you wrote: > >Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! > >Out of curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine > >actually be? I do not need time code and according to the seller, he > >has the expansion card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later > >version machine. I plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in > >a position to pick the machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 > >console that is waiting for me in storage. Again, thank you all! > > > >Craig J. Tayerle > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1253 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:43 am Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I would think that $500-750 is good IF it is in good condition. If it is already 1/2" the price is a little higher. Richard (who is into preservation, and a good effort that is) might argue against using analog tape at all for recording. I have mixed feelings myself. I've seen well versed ( and usually old school) guys say that they can do it all with digital. I THINK THAT IS RIGHT. That said, it requires (IMHO) a deep understanding of why analog sounded like it did, that is was a very balanced sound, and realizing it was a sound that was helped by analog's limitations. It was pleasant to listen to, not because it was better, but because by accident it forced everyone that used it to think 'differently'. People had half a century to figure out what that way was, and to make good use of it. It enforced some good (even now) habits, mostly forgotten. Digital's limitations AND advantages seem ignored, at least to me. Most of the inherent limitations of analog are missing in digital recording, but the discipline of analog seems sometimes lost. Most of it was trying to fit the format limitation to the music.... instead of the current view to make the music fit the format. Sad really..... that understanding seems gone. Sorry for the rant. I and MANY others helped develop and build the APR and JH machines... God only knows what the Studer developers thought. It seems sad that all the advancements in technology after that have been so sadly ( and badly) abused. It strikes me as just plain lazy... but again, just an opinion. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:44 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! Out of curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine actually be? I do not need time code and according to the seller, he has the expansion card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later version machine. I plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in a position to pick the machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 console that is waiting for me in storage. Again, thank you all! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Scott Phillips" >: -------------- ..but to answer his question, the one on eBay is a 5002, since it doesn't have the third meter...assuming I found the one on eBay he was looking at for $2400. It is NOT a 5003, and lacks the TC hardware quoted in the eBay ad. Buyer beware on eBay, as always.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on >the meter bridge as well.... See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... 5001 - 1 meter 5002 - 2 meters 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer controls) It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and not be able to use it. Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got all the pieces... There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in the manual which I have posted online. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1254 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:49 am Subject: Re: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs eddieaudio Offline Send Email I will say that recording to four track last summer, we knew we had to get the drums right to a single track of tape and I think we accomplished this admirably. All the time we invested in auditioning kick mics (position) and snare drums, for example, not only paid off in the analog domain, but we also mult'd the mics to DAW multitrack and those tracks sounded better for our efforts (without the tube preamps and signal processing). I like digital, but it is so easy to plug a zillion mics in and press record, knowing you can fix and decide what to use after the fact. There's no discipline in that - and it's hard to self-impose, but I keep pushing it. eddie ciletti Scott Phillips wrote: > > I would think that $500-750 is good IF it is in good condition. If it is > already 1/2" the price is a little higher. Richard (who is into > preservation, and a good effort that is) might argue against using > analog tape at all for recording. I have mixed feelings myself. I've > seen well versed ( and usually old school) guys say that they can do it > all with digital. I THINK THAT IS RIGHT. That said, it requires (IMHO) a > deep understanding of why analog sounded like it did, that is was a very > balanced sound, and realizing it was a sound that was helped by analog's > limitations. It was pleasant to listen to, not because it was better, > but because by accident it forced everyone that used it to think > 'differently'. People had half a century to figure out what that way > was, and to make good use of it. It enforced some good (even now) > habits, mostly forgotten. Digital's limitations AND advantages seem > ignored, at least to me. Most of the inherent limitations of analog are > missing in digital recording, but the discipline of analog seems > sometimes lost. Most of it was trying to fit the format limitation to > the music.... instead of the current view to make the music fit the > format. Sad really..... that understanding seems gone. > > Sorry for the rant. I and MANY others helped develop and build the APR > and JH machines... God only knows what the Studer developers thought. It > seems sad that all the advancements in technology after that have been > so sadly ( and badly) abused. It strikes me as just plain lazy... but > again, just an opinion. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of c.tayerle@... > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:44 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs > > Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! Out of > curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine actually be? I > do not need time code and according to the seller, he has the expansion > card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later version machine. I > plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in a position to pick the > machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 console that is waiting for me in > storage. Again, thank you all! > > Craig J. Tayerle > > -------------- Original message from "Scott Phillips" > > >: > -------------- > > ..but to answer his question, the one on eBay is a 5002, since it > doesn't have the third meter...assuming I found the one on eBay he was > looking at for $2400. It is NOT a 5003, and lacks the TC hardware quoted > in the eBay ad. Buyer beware on eBay, as always.... > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > On > Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:36 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs > > At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: > >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on > >the meter bridge as well.... > > See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... > > 5001 - 1 meter > 5002 - 2 meters > 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer > controls) > > It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The > software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have > three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them > on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch > (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and > not be able to use it. > > Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting > a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a > cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got > all the pieces... > > There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in > the manual which I have posted online. > > http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > > > > > > > username: apr > password: apr5003v > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1255 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:05 pm Subject: RE: Model distinctions...was freq. graphs rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I want to thank everyone for the wealth of information on these machines! I am still watching the APR-5002 on Ebay. It has dropped in price from $3400.00 to $2200.00. I would love to own this machine, but it needs to be closer to the $1K price point according to what I have read on your e-mails. Supposedly, it is in pristene condition. Perhaps after a few more Ebay postings, I may present an offer to the seller. Again, I appreciate the help! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Scott Phillips" : -------------- I would think that $500-750 is good IF it is in good condition. If it is already 1/2" the price is a little higher. Richard (who is into preservation, and a good effort that is) might argue against using analog tape at all for recording. I have mixed feelings myself. I've seen well versed ( and usually old school) guys say that they can do it all with digital. I THINK THAT IS RIGHT. That said, it requires (IMHO) a deep understanding of why analog sounded like it did, that is was a very balanced sound, and realizing it was a sound that was helped by analog's limitations. It was pleasant to listen to, not because it was better, but because by accident it forced everyone that used it to think 'differently'. People had half a century to figure out what that way was, and to make good use of it. It enforced some good (even now) habits, mostly forgotten. Digital's limitations AND advantages seem ignored, at least to me. Most of the inherent limitations of analog are missing in digital recording, but the discipline of analog seems sometimes lost. Most of it was trying to fit the format limitation to the music.... instead of the current view to make the music fit the format. Sad really..... that understanding seems gone. Sorry for the rant. I and MANY others helped develop and build the APR and JH machines... God only knows what the Studer developers thought. It seems sad that all the advancements in technology after that have been so sadly ( and badly) abused. It strikes me as just plain lazy... but again, just an opinion. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:44 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs Hi, this is Craig and I really appreciate all of the information! Out of curiosity, what would a fair sale price for this machine actually be? I do not need time code and according to the seller, he has the expansion card for 1/2 inch tape use...so it must be a later version machine. I plan to use it for recording some vinyl. I am in a position to pick the machine up. It is near a Tascam M-3700 console that is waiting for me in storage. Again, thank you all! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Scott Phillips" >: -------------- ..but to answer his question, the one on eBay is a 5002, since it doesn't have the third meter...assuming I found the one on eBay he was looking at for $2400. It is NOT a 5003, and lacks the TC hardware quoted in the eBay ad. Buyer beware on eBay, as always.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Model distinctions...was freq. graphs At 03:47 PM 2007-10-25, Scott Phillips wrote: >Correct on all counts, I think. Then there is the number of meters on >the meter bridge as well.... See, I knew I would miss the obvious ... 5001 - 1 meter 5002 - 2 meters 5003 - 3 meters. 3rd meter control panel is different from 1&2 (fewer controls) It's too bad that the third channel is not audio-capable. The software forces it into a timecode channel. It would be nice to have three equal channels to do 3 channel stereo transfers. I can do them on my 2-machine FrankenSony setup -- or on my APR-16 if it's 1/2-inch (someday), but it's frustrating to have most of the third channel and not be able to use it. Someday, as part of the FrankenSony project, I'm planning on mounting a Fostex 8-track 1/4-inch head on an APR-5000 head assembly with a cable just long enough to plug it into my APR-16 . I've got all the pieces... There are also serial number breakpoints that I think are captured in the manual which I have posted online. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1256 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:21 pm Subject: Third BNC on APR5003 ? ? ? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, I just couldn't pass up yet another 5003 (not V) for a good price with a remote, stand, and manual, delivered. When I got it, there was a third BNC mounted near the heatsink with a TEE and termination on it. Anyone know of a semi-official mod to add that? I don't have time/desire to dig deeper -- I'm just wondering if someone knows about that mod. Of course, I haven't found a label. (reason for not wanting to dig deeper is I'm deep into a bunch of things including fighting with some really squealy tapes that I've been talking about on the Ampex and Studer lists -- Ampex tape and currently A810s for playback--and some more boxes "to do" showed up this week). Colour me confused. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1257 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:56 am Subject: Re: Third BNC on APR5003 ? ? ? ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Richard, That connector doesn't jog my memory. The only way to clear it up is to drop the back panel and see if its wired to anything. Maybe you actually have a VITC board in there. Or maybe someone modified something. I couldn't bear the suspense myself. ;-) Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello, > > I just couldn't pass up yet another 5003 (not V) for a good price > with a remote, stand, and manual, delivered. > > When I got it, there was a third BNC mounted near the heatsink with a > TEE and termination on it. > > Anyone know of a semi-official mod to add that? > > I don't have time/desire to dig deeper -- I'm just wondering if > someone knows about that mod. Of course, I haven't found a label. > > (reason for not wanting to dig deeper is I'm deep into a bunch of > things including fighting with some really squealy tapes that I've > been talking about on the Ampex and Studer lists -- Ampex tape and > currently A810s for playback--and some more boxes "to do" showed up this week). > > Colour me confused. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1258 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:56 am Subject: Re: Third BNC on APR5003 ? ? ? ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Richard, That connector doesn't jog my memory. The only way to clear it up is to drop the back panel and see if its wired to anything. Maybe you actually have a VITC board in there. Or maybe someone modified something. I couldn't bear the suspense myself. ;-) Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hello, > > I just couldn't pass up yet another 5003 (not V) for a good price > with a remote, stand, and manual, delivered. > > When I got it, there was a third BNC mounted near the heatsink with a > TEE and termination on it. > > Anyone know of a semi-official mod to add that? > > I don't have time/desire to dig deeper -- I'm just wondering if > someone knows about that mod. Of course, I haven't found a label. > > (reason for not wanting to dig deeper is I'm deep into a bunch of > things including fighting with some really squealy tapes that I've > been talking about on the Ampex and Studer lists -- Ampex tape and > currently A810s for playback--and some more boxes "to do" showed up this week). > > Colour me confused. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1259 From: Dana White Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:46 pm Subject: Channel Two Record Intermittant djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Everyone, On one of our APR 5002s, there is a fairly regular issue with recording. Upon startup all is well, but channel two wont record any signal. It will show it is enabled by the ready indicator, but it wont put sound on the tape (input mode is okay). Sometimes I cycle power on the deck and it comes back working fine. Other times that doesn't work and I have swapped out the audio cards. That will bring the record ability back. When switching the cards back to their original position, it continues to work! So, the head scratching begins. Any thoughts? Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1260 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: Third BNC on APR5003 ? ? ? richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:56 AM 2007-11-12, Cary wrote: >That connector doesn't jog my memory. The only way to clear it up is >to drop the back panel and see if its wired to anything. Maybe you >actually have a VITC board in there. Or maybe someone modified >something. I couldn't bear the suspense myself. ;-) Well, with 600 hours of lectures by a major 20th century philosopher and theologian to transfer -- and some are here in more than one copy -- I could bear the suspense, but since you couldn't, I did drop the rear panel and it was connected to a VVT board -- so it has VITC. Does this make it a 5003V then rather than a 5003? Can you field mod a 5003 to 5003V? I guess at least part way . Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1261 From: Damian - Ponyloaf Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:39 pm Subject: Advice on selling denormaliser Offline Send Email Hi, I have a Sony APR 5003v that i want to sell. Im not sure about the list policy on posting stuff for sale - i tried to find it but didnt come across anything. Does anyone have any advice about best places to list it? I am in Brisbane Australia. Of course, feel free to contact me if you are interested yourself. I apologise in advance if this is against list policy. cheers Damian Lewis Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1262 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:56 pm Subject: Re: Third BNC on APR5003 ? ? ? ladewd Offline Send Email Its entirely possible. All you need is the VITC board a few mods on the CNX the right CPU mods and software and you're good to go. There were a few that were converted at the factory as sort of an experiment. Looks like you have 2 experiments now. The APR16 and the APR5003(v). Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 09:56 AM 2007-11-12, Cary wrote: > > >That connector doesn't jog my memory. The only way to clear it up is > >to drop the back panel and see if its wired to anything. Maybe you > >actually have a VITC board in there. Or maybe someone modified > >something. I couldn't bear the suspense myself. ;-) > > Well, with 600 hours of lectures by a major 20th century philosopher > and theologian to transfer -- and some are here in more than one copy > -- I could bear the suspense, but since you couldn't, I did drop the > rear panel and it was connected to a VVT board -- so it has VITC. > Does this make it a 5003V then rather than a 5003? > > Can you field mod a 5003 to 5003V? I guess at least part way . > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1263 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:02 am Subject: Re: Channel Two Record Intermittant ladewd Offline Send Email I'll venture to guess you have an intermittent connection on the BACK of the Audio Mother Board. If you drop the back panel, and look on the right side, you will see a mess of audio cables plugged into the board that the channel and master cards plug into. Be warned its a jumgle in there, but perhaps one of the connectors isn't seated all the way in. When they were built, the connectors were numbered and the headers they plugged into had corresponding numbers. The problem is, its a tight space and your vision is severely restricted. It helps taking the bottom panel off and work with a real bright light. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > On one of our APR 5002s, there is a fairly regular issue with > recording. Upon startup all is well, but channel two wont record any > signal. It will show it is enabled by the ready indicator, but it > wont put sound on the tape (input mode is okay). Sometimes I cycle > power on the deck and it comes back working fine. Other times that > doesn't work and I have swapped out the audio cards. That will bring > the record ability back. When switching the cards back to their > original position, it continues to work! > > So, the head scratching begins. Any thoughts? > > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1264 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:03 am Subject: Re: Advice on selling soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello Damian, How much are you asking for it? Do you have an idea of what shipping might be to the U.S.? Damian - Ponyloaf wrote: Hi, I have a Sony APR 5003v that i want to sell. Im not sure about the list policy on posting stuff for sale - i tried to find it but didnt come across anything. Does anyone have any advice about best places to list it? I am in Brisbane Australia. Of course, feel free to contact me if you are interested yourself. I apologise in advance if this is against list policy. cheers Damian Lewis --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1265 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:01 am Subject: Re: Advice on selling richardlhess Offline Send Email I fear two things... Shipping costs would be bazillions and it would be shipped via "drop shipment" which is, sadly, a fate which has befallen more than one APR that I'm aware of. Even without the stand, it's close to 100 pounds--more if properly packed which for this shipment would include a wood crate IMHO. BUT, it's worth looking into as it's a fine machine and I'd rather see it go whole. I put my name in the hat if it heads towards the dumpster/skip that I'd be interested in a few parts, but as I said, I'd much rather see it go whole to someone who can use it. I keep coming back to the APRs as a great sounding and extremely flexible platform for tape restoration. IMHO they sound a bit better than the Studer A810, but the Studer A80 sounds better yet. The good news is all three are very close. Anyway, back to expanding my FrankenSony project with a second pair for two simultaneous 4-track 1/4-inch ingest. Cheers, Richard At 10:03 AM 2007-11-13, Soundscape Studio wrote: >Hello Damian, > > How much are you asking for it? Do you have an idea of what > shipping might be to the U.S.? > >>Damian - Ponyloaf wrote: >> Hi, >> >>I have a Sony APR 5003v that i want to sell. Im not sure about the list >>policy on posting stuff for sale - i tried to find it but didnt come >>across anything. >> >>Does anyone have any advice about best places to list it? I am in >>Brisbane Australia. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1266 From: Dana White Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:55 pm Subject: Re: Re: Channel Two Record Intermittant djwaudio Offline Send Email Ah yes, I can open the back and have a look at the mother board. I did have the power supply out once for changing the stwitch, so it's plausible that I've pulled the wiring harnesses. It's a jungle in there. But, I can still put the APR in the back seat and record a gig on it by myself! Try doing that on an A80! Thanks for the idea Cary. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:02 PM, ladewd wrote: > I'll venture to guess you have an intermittent connection on the > BACK of the Audio Mother Board. If you drop the back panel, and > look on the right side, you will see a mess of audio cables plugged > into the board that the channel and master cards plug into. > > Be warned its a jumgle in there, but perhaps one of the connectors > isn't seated all the way in. When they were built, the connectors > were numbered and the headers they plugged into had corresponding > numbers. The problem is, its a tight space and your vision is > severely restricted. It helps taking the bottom panel off and work > with a real bright light. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > On one of our APR 5002s, there is a fairly regular issue with > > recording. Upon startup all is well, but channel two wont record > any > > signal. It will show it is enabled by the ready indicator, but it > > wont put sound on the tape (input mode is okay). Sometimes I > cycle > > power on the deck and it comes back working fine. Other times > that > > doesn't work and I have swapped out the audio cards. That will > bring > > the record ability back. When switching the cards back to their > > original position, it continues to work! > > > > So, the head scratching begins. Any thoughts? > > > > > > Best regards, > > Dana > > > > Dana J. White > > specializedmastering.com > > (508) 654-1490 > > (508) 872-9478 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1267 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:40 pm Subject: Re: Re: Channel Two Record Intermittant richardlhess Offline Send Email At 12:55 PM 2007-11-13, Dana White wrote: >Ah yes, I can open the back and have a look at the mother board. I >did have the power supply out once for changing the stwitch, so it's >plausible that I've pulled the wiring harnesses. It's a jungle in >there. But, I can still put the APR in the back seat and record a gig >on it by myself! Try doing that on an A80! Two ways to look at this... (1) I had three A80s with stands and boxes o' parts in one of my two Suburbans ('94 '01--now you've heard of trickle-down-Suburbans) so one or even two without stands wouldn't bother me, but the long cable from the vehicle to the hall might... . (2) That's why I bought a Sound Devices 722 recorder to go along with my stereo pair of DPA 4006TL microphones . But I love my APRs and A80s for getting stuff digitized to give it another life. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1268 From: Damian - Ponyloaf Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:49 am Subject: Re: Advice on selling denormaliser Offline Send Email I would have thought that shipping would be prohibitive. but please feel free to contact me off list if you want to discuss - damian [at] ponyloaf dot com dot au On 14/11/2007, at 1:03 AM, Soundscape Studio wrote: > Hello Damian, > > How much are you asking for it? Do you have an idea of what shipping > might be to the U.S.? > > Damian - Ponyloaf wrote: > Hi, > > I have a Sony APR 5003v that i want to sell. Im not sure about the > list > policy on posting stuff for sale - i tried to find it but didnt come > across anything. > > Does anyone have any advice about best places to list it? I am in > Brisbane Australia. > > Of course, feel free to contact me if you are interested yourself. > > I apologise in advance if this is against list policy. > > cheers > Damian Lewis > > --------------------------------- > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. > Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1269 From: "wrekamusic" Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:56 pm Subject: Sony APR 24 Remote wrekamusic Offline Send Email I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me know. Thanks, Rick Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1270 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:18 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email As I understand it, there was less than one remote made per machine produced. People who ordered 2 (or more possibly) APR24s only got one remote. I had this same situation as you describe personally happen to me, and was lucky enough to track down the original remote. I was once told that there was a 3rd party remote, so that might be a good option if it actually exists. I thought that I got a great deal on my APR24, but after tracking the remote down, I ended up paying more for a worse conditioned machine. Hope the same does not happen to you. Good luck. Best, -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On Nov 14, 2007 1:56 PM, wrekamusic wrote: > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > know. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1271 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:44 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I am still being tempted to bid on the APR-5002 ( Item 180180143570 ) on Ebay. Since this machine was first listed, the price has dropped from $3400.00 to $1800.00. I was hoping to see it decline to $1100.00 in which case I would probably place a bid. That may still be too much to pay, but for a unit in the condition it appears to be in...it seems to be a fair price. Thoughts & opinions again please? Many Thanks, Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Daniel Friedman" : -------------- As I understand it, there was less than one remote made per machine produced. People who ordered 2 (or more possibly) APR24s only got one remote. I had this same situation as you describe personally happen to me, and was lucky enough to track down the original remote. I was once told that there was a 3rd party remote, so that might be a good option if it actually exists. I thought that I got a great deal on my APR24, but after tracking the remote down, I ended up paying more for a worse conditioned machine. Hope the same does not happen to you. Good luck. Best, -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On Nov 14, 2007 1:56 PM, wrekamusic wrote: > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > know. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1272 From: Dana White Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:16 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Clyde, Boy that machine sure looks clean. I paid 800 for a machine that was no way near as clean. If you could get this one for 1100, I think you'd be doing well, particularly if you'll get a lot of use out of it. Run it 15 ips with Dolby SR on GP9 and you'll be in heaven... send me your mixes for mastering if you do! I'm using mine (I have 1/2" heads too) right now for laying back some digital tracks that won't sit right with just EQ & Comp. It's saving my life! FWIW I used to have an Ampex and I like the Sony better for most things. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what my ear tells me, so be it. Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Nov 14, 2007, at 6:44 PM, c.tayerle@... wrote: > Hi, this is Craig. I am still being tempted to bid on the APR-5002 > ( Item 180180143570 ) on Ebay. > Since this machine was first listed, the price has dropped from > $3400.00 to $1800.00. I was hoping to see it decline to $1100.00 in > which case I would probably place a bid. That may still be too much > to pay, but for a unit in the condition it appears to be in...it > seems to be a fair price. Thoughts & opinions again please? > > Many Thanks, > > Craig J. Tayerle > > -------------- Original message from "Daniel Friedman" > : -------------- > > As I understand it, there was less than one remote made per machine > produced. People who ordered 2 (or more possibly) APR24s only got one > remote. I had this same situation as you describe personally happen > to me, > and was lucky enough to track down the original remote. I was once > told that > there was a 3rd party remote, so that might be a good option if it > actually > exists. > > I thought that I got a great deal on my APR24, but after tracking > the remote > down, I ended up paying more for a worse conditioned machine. Hope > the same > does not happen to you. Good luck. > > Best, > -- > Daniel Friedman > The Tannery Recording Studios > www.tannerystudio.com > > On Nov 14, 2007 1:56 PM, wrekamusic wrote: > > > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and > unfortunately, I > > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > > know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1273 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:46 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote richardlhess Offline Send Email At 10:16 PM 2007-11-14, Dana White wrote: > FWIW I used to have an Ampex and I like the Sony better for >most things. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what my ear tells me, >so be it. Hi, Dana, So why is that blasphemy? This is the Sony APR list, not the Ampex list . Which Ampex did you have? ATR-100? AG-440? Of all the tape machines I've tried for tape restoration, the only machine I've used that sounds better than the APR is the Studer A80...and only by a small amount...but it is "magic". The Studer A810 sounds similar to the APR, but in some listening tests, more people preferred the APR than the A810. One even preferred the APR over the A80 on one passage. I've actually pulled the last remaining A810 out of my studio -- just used two to RECORD full-track mono -- and now have two A80s and five APRs. I've got two 4-track 1/4-inch "FrankenSony" set up pairs now. But, interestingly, the Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder dealt better with some Shamrock 031 junque that squealed. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1274 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:44 am Subject: RE: Sony APR 24 Remote ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email TOO much money !! Be more patient. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:44 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 24 Remote Hi, this is Craig. I am still being tempted to bid on the APR-5002 ( Item 180180143570 ) on Ebay. Since this machine was first listed, the price has dropped from $3400.00 to $1800.00. I was hoping to see it decline to $1100.00 in which case I would probably place a bid. That may still be too much to pay, but for a unit in the condition it appears to be in...it seems to be a fair price. Thoughts & opinions again please? Many Thanks, Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Daniel Friedman" >: -------------- As I understand it, there was less than one remote made per machine produced. People who ordered 2 (or more possibly) APR24s only got one remote. I had this same situation as you describe personally happen to me, and was lucky enough to track down the original remote. I was once told that there was a 3rd party remote, so that might be a good option if it actually exists. I thought that I got a great deal on my APR24, but after tracking the remote down, I ended up paying more for a worse conditioned machine. Hope the same does not happen to you. Good luck. Best, -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com On Nov 14, 2007 1:56 PM, wrekamusic > wrote: > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > know. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1275 From: Dana White Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:35 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote djwaudio Offline Send Email Yeah, I think that a lot of people see the Ampex 100 as the Holy Grail of machines. That Ampex always sounded harsh to me, possibly because it had more LF roll off. It had more body to the midrange, probably because of the transformers. It was built like a tank and reminded me of a Harley Davidson. The Studers intrigue me as I ride BMW motorcycles. The Sonys have just been a pleasure so I have no regrets. Clean tight and fast. I just put up a roll of RMG 900 up after enjoying GP9 for a few years. It seems a little thick to my ear for recording when I use my GP9 setup, which I think is set up to be overbiased by 1.5 db @10k for 30 ips (I think, it's been a while!). Does anyone have more insight on what might be a better approach to setting up the machine since I'm going to do a new calibration tomorrow? Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Nov 14, 2007, at 8:46 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > At 10:16 PM 2007-11-14, Dana White wrote: > > > FWIW I used to have an Ampex and I like the Sony better for > >most things. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what my ear tells me, > >so be it. > > Hi, Dana, > > So why is that blasphemy? This is the Sony APR list, not the Ampex > list . > > Which Ampex did you have? ATR-100? AG-440? > > Of all the tape machines I've tried for tape restoration, the only > machine I've used that sounds better than the APR is the Studer > A80...and only by a small amount...but it is "magic". > > The Studer A810 sounds similar to the APR, but in some listening > tests, more people preferred the APR than the A810. One even > preferred the APR over the A80 on one passage. I've actually pulled > the last remaining A810 out of my studio -- just used two to RECORD > full-track mono -- and now have two A80s and five APRs. I've got two > 4-track 1/4-inch "FrankenSony" set up pairs now. > > But, interestingly, the Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder > dealt better with some Shamrock 031 junque that squealed. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1276 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:33 am Subject: RE: Sony APR 24 Remote ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email You might just try between 1 to 1-1/2 db of overbias. The reaction of the particular tape to a given applied bias to the heads is not the same between brands anyway, so it is a starting point. You'll also get a different sound for a given applied bias depending on reference level. On top of that, there is also the other school of thought that uses a low frequency tone to overbias with, listening for the least 'bias rocks' or noise at a low frequency, then tweaking the HF eq to level things out. Personally, if I move to a new tape type for the first time, I use an Audio Precision analyzer to get the best balance between the two. Once you figure out the right setting, it is as repeatable as the quality control of the tape manufacturer allows... not always the best bet except within the same tape batch, but that is another story. If you don't do it right, you end up with a lot of extra distortion on the one hand, a lousy noisy bottom end, or a 'lump' in the midrange because of the interaction between the bias setting, the playback eq setting, and the record HF setting. That said, I've generally found that between 1 and 2 db of overbias at 10k / 30 ips is a good starting point, with 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 db of overbias at 15 ips also a good starting point. Your mileage may vary !! Make VERY sure to have a good repro alignment tape on demag'd heads.... having a bad repro HF setting because of a worn / shabby alignment tape will really mess with you in the midrange. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana White Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:36 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 24 Remote Yeah, I think that a lot of people see the Ampex 100 as the Holy Grail of machines. That Ampex always sounded harsh to me, possibly because it had more LF roll off. It had more body to the midrange, probably because of the transformers. It was built like a tank and reminded me of a Harley Davidson. The Studers intrigue me as I ride BMW motorcycles. The Sonys have just been a pleasure so I have no regrets. Clean tight and fast. I just put up a roll of RMG 900 up after enjoying GP9 for a few years. It seems a little thick to my ear for recording when I use my GP9 setup, which I think is set up to be overbiased by 1.5 db @10k for 30 ips (I think, it's been a while!). Does anyone have more insight on what might be a better approach to setting up the machine since I'm going to do a new calibration tomorrow? Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Nov 14, 2007, at 8:46 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > At 10:16 PM 2007-11-14, Dana White wrote: > > > FWIW I used to have an Ampex and I like the Sony better for > >most things. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what my ear tells me, > >so be it. > > Hi, Dana, > > So why is that blasphemy? This is the Sony APR list, not the Ampex > list . > > Which Ampex did you have? ATR-100? AG-440? > > Of all the tape machines I've tried for tape restoration, the only > machine I've used that sounds better than the APR is the Studer > A80...and only by a small amount...but it is "magic". > > The Studer A810 sounds similar to the APR, but in some listening > tests, more people preferred the APR than the A810. One even > preferred the APR over the A80 on one passage. I've actually pulled > the last remaining A810 out of my studio -- just used two to RECORD > full-track mono -- and now have two A80s and five APRs. I've got two > 4-track 1/4-inch "FrankenSony" set up pairs now. > > But, interestingly, the Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder > dealt better with some Shamrock 031 junque that squealed. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1277 From: "Paul McCulloh" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:32 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote paulmcculloh Offline Send Email Rick, you might try Ted Jolly at GRS Pro Audio - http://www.grssystems.com/ - Tel: (951) 767-2570 x9. They have been rebuilding after a huge fire last December -- I see that a lot of the links on the website are under construction -- but I first contacted Ted back in June, 2006, at which time he told me they had built 23 custom APR remotes since mid 2005 for various clients, each with a customized panel layout. He sent me photos and pricing of such a unit -- looks to be beautiful work, and appears to match the Sony very closely. I'd be glad to forward his e-mail and photos to you if you're interested. Please note that I am not a client of GRS and have not (yet) purchased anything from them, so I cannot personally attest to the company or their products. Simply passing the information on in case it might be of help! Best luck, Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "wrekamusic" wrote: > > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > know. > > Thanks, > > Rick > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1278 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Interesting... I haven't heard of these folks before. Could you forward that information to me as well ? I'm curious... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCulloh Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:32 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 24 Remote Rick, you might try Ted Jolly at GRS Pro Audio - http://www.grssystems.com/ > - Tel: (951) 767-2570 x9. They have been rebuilding after a huge fire last December -- I see that a lot of the links on the website are under construction -- but I first contacted Ted back in June, 2006, at which time he told me they had built 23 custom APR remotes since mid 2005 for various clients, each with a customized panel layout. He sent me photos and pricing of such a unit -- looks to be beautiful work, and appears to match the Sony very closely. I'd be glad to forward his e-mail and photos to you if you're interested. Please note that I am not a client of GRS and have not (yet) purchased anything from them, so I cannot personally attest to the company or their products. Simply passing the information on in case it might be of help! Best luck, Paul --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "wrekamusic" wrote: > > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > know. > > Thanks, > > Rick > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1279 From: "wrekamusic" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:43 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote wrekamusic Offline Send Email Hi Paul, I would appreciate if you could forward his (GRS) email to me. Thanks for the info, Rick --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Interesting... I haven't heard of these folks before. > > Could you forward that information to me as well ? I'm curious... > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Paul McCulloh > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:32 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 24 Remote > > > > > Rick, you might try Ted Jolly at GRS Pro Audio - > http://www.grssystems.com/ > > - Tel: (951) > 767-2570 x9. They have been rebuilding after a huge fire last December > -- I see that a lot of the links on the website are under construction > -- but I first contacted Ted back in June, 2006, at which time he told > me they had built 23 custom APR remotes since mid 2005 for various > clients, each with a customized panel layout. He sent me photos and > pricing of such a unit -- looks to be beautiful work, and appears to > match the Sony very closely. I'd be glad to forward his e-mail and > photos to you if you're interested. > > Please note that I am not a client of GRS and have not (yet) purchased > anything from them, so I cannot personally attest to the company or > their products. Simply passing the information on in case it might be > of help! > > Best luck, > > Paul > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "wrekamusic" wrote: > > > > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > > know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rick > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1280 From: "wrekamusic" Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:49 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 24 Remote wrekamusic Offline Send Email I should have done a bit of research before I bought it, but it only cost me $560.00 and looks to be in mint condition, so I couldn't pass it up. Thanks for your help Daniel. Rick --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Friedman" wrote: > > As I understand it, there was less than one remote made per machine > produced. People who ordered 2 (or more possibly) APR24s only got one > remote. I had this same situation as you describe personally happen to me, > and was lucky enough to track down the original remote. I was once told that > there was a 3rd party remote, so that might be a good option if it actually > exists. > > I thought that I got a great deal on my APR24, but after tracking the remote > down, I ended up paying more for a worse conditioned machine. Hope the same > does not happen to you. Good luck. > > > Best, > -- > Daniel Friedman > The Tannery Recording Studios > www.tannerystudio.com > > On Nov 14, 2007 1:56 PM, wrekamusic wrote: > > > I bought a Sony APR 24 without the SU224 Remote, and unfortunately, I > > can't record or arm tracks without the remote. If anyone has an > > SU224 remote and cables, or something that will work, please let me > > know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1281 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:09 pm Subject: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops out of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not have this problem. This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in the studio. It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was stopped -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. Where to start looking would be a help. Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have here which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug that if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power off reboot the machine after each speed change. Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update any others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? Thanks! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1282 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:31 am Subject: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Richard, The APR-5003V with P.4.02.01.6 firmware had a bug at 3.75ips. It looks like you found it. The machine was never really geared to operate at 3.75ips, but under certain circumstances it could be tricked into it by using the head ID dip switches. The EQ curves were not quite right but you could mess with the gap compensation settings to correct it. JH machines that were made to run at 3.75ips had a smaller diameter capstan shafts and correct EQ. We could never get good flutter specs at that speed with the standard capstan shaft diameter. All our machines were only 3 speed machines. The JH110's that ran at 3.75ips had a hi speed of 15ips. We did attempt to get it running at 3.75ips, but the Engineering staff was laid off before they got to fix the bug they introduced in version P.4.02.01.6 (while they were trying to correct the bug in P.4.02.01.5) . This was the main reason I suggest to use P.4.02.01.5 to everyone with a 5003V. I never saw a small diameter shaft on an APR, but perhaps Amp Services can convert one for you (If they're still in business). If you have machines that operate OK at that speed, its a good thing, but as you found out, for the 5003V, P.4.02.01.5 had a problem and I believe P.4.02.01.6 had a more serious issue (the tape stopped playing). You'd get better flutter specs with a smaller capstan shaft and the APR would think its running at 7.5ips. The counter would still be correct because its not read by capstan speed. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, > > I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops out > of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. > > All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not have > this problem. > > This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in the studio. > > It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least > that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was stopped > -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. > > Where to start looking would be a help. > > Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have here > which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug that > if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power off > reboot the machine after each speed change. > > Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update any > others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1283 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:26 am Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, Now this is indeed fascinating. I wish I could accept your explanation on the face of it, but what I have found over the years contradicts what you related...there must be yet another factor at play. The bug in P.4.02.01.5 appears to be that the head block low speed switch is forgotten/not read when you change speeds, but rather only on power up. If I have a low-speed head assembly on the macine in low speed, when it powers up, it comes up at 3.75. When I change the speed to Medium, it jumps to 15. If I shut the machine off and turn it back on, it now runs at 7.5. This problem went away with P.4.02.01.6. I have not measured flutter at 3.75, but I have 3 machines running at that speed with P.4.02.01.6 software, and I think one or two others, but I'm not sure at this point. Two of the for sure working machines are 5003Vs and one is a 5003. I haven't asked the converte 5003-to-V to actually pull tape at that speed--it is only being used for its electronics as the second machine in the FrankenSony pair. I appreciate the explanation, but if you or someone else can help reconcile what I saw with your explanation, I'd appreciate that. By the way, the 2-pole A810 capstan motors are slightly worse at 3.75 in/s than the 4-pole motors that don't do 30 in/s. Cheers, Richard At 01:31 AM 2007-11-19, ladewd wrote: >Hey Richard, > >The APR-5003V with P.4.02.01.6 firmware had a bug at 3.75ips. It >looks like you found it. The machine was never really geared to >operate at 3.75ips, but under certain circumstances it could be >tricked into it by using the head ID dip switches. The EQ curves >were not quite right but you could mess with the gap compensation >settings to correct it. JH machines that were made to run at >3.75ips had a smaller diameter capstan shafts and correct EQ. We >could never get good flutter specs at that speed with the standard >capstan shaft diameter. All our machines were only 3 speed machines. >The JH110's that ran at 3.75ips had a hi speed of 15ips. > >We did attempt to get it running at 3.75ips, but the Engineering >staff was laid off before they got to fix the bug they introduced in >version P.4.02.01.6 (while they were trying to correct the bug in >P.4.02.01.5) . This was the main reason I suggest to use >P.4.02.01.5 to everyone with a 5003V. > >I never saw a small diameter shaft on an APR, but perhaps Amp >Services can convert one for you (If they're still in business). If >you have machines that operate OK at that speed, its a good thing, >but as you found out, for the 5003V, P.4.02.01.5 had a problem and I >believe P.4.02.01.6 had a more serious issue (the tape stopped >playing). You'd get better flutter specs with a smaller capstan >shaft and the APR would think its running at 7.5ips. The counter >would still be correct because its not read by capstan speed. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" >wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops >out > > of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. > > > > All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not have > > this problem. > > > > This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in the >studio. > > > > It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least > > that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was >stopped > > -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. > > > > Where to start looking would be a help. > > > > Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have >here > > which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug >that > > if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power >off > > reboot the machine after each speed change. > > > > Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update any > > others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1284 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:32 am Subject: Re: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 richardlhess Offline Send Email We need to revisit the reproduce EQ issues with the APR-5000 series for the sake of completeness. There are several sources of HF loss in the tape playback chain. (1) the wavelength loss caused by gap length (2) the frequency loss caused by the loading on the head (1) is calculatable (I won't bother researching and repeating the formula) but it causes a sharp null and then ripples beyond. Prior to the first null the response falls off quickly. Gap length loss is sometimes compensated by resonating the head with a shunt capacitor. Other than stray capacitance, I don't see this being done in the APR series...or did I miss it? (2) Shunting an inductor with a resistor is similar to shunting a resistor with a capacitor as far as the frequency response goes. As one increases frequency, the inductive reactance increases and that becomes an increasingly larger arm of the top half of a voltage divider with the lower half being the input impedance of the preamp. This seems to be an issue on the APR with head inductances over about 100 mH. Below that, it is less of an issue. We can see trends in the "proper" factory presets where the RGC (repro gap compensation) is increased to about C or 4 (depending on the LF contour that is also integrated into that one control) at 7.5 in/s. At 3.75, I typically find without head resonating capacitors (which I haven't tried) that I need 7 or F for this control. I also find that the HF EQ needs to be at FF or close to it, depending on specific head. I don't know if this is a bug as much as its just the nature of the beast. I did find that a two-channel, four-track head that I had was quieter when set flat than a four-channel, four-track head with tape running. Partially, perhaps, because the four-track head may actually have a narrower track width, requiring more gain. It's so frustrating trying to make this all work with no source of really new in-spec parts. Also, while the APR may not be a great performer at 3.75 and may not meet its public specs, I still find it no slouch and the transfers I get from 3.75 can be reasonably good. One of the things I hate is the sibilance of HF limiting that is common in this speed. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1285 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:22 am Subject: 3.75 EQ, con't richardlhess Offline Send Email I should have also said that the different time constants require different settings of the HF DACs and the jump from 50 to 90 µs EQ may also be at the end of their range. The fact that I can get ruler-flat 7.5 in/s playback eliminates the head loading as a specific issue. The lack of range in the DAC could be a design issue where the EQ was never intended to go to or past 90 µs (a mistake considering these were four-speed machines--at least in marketing's eye) or certainly gap-length issues with the heads I'm using. Studer A810s, for example, which were available as four-speed machines are optimized in the four-speed configuration for the top three speeds. I know of one archive who uses A810s who gets custom-made Flux Magnetics short-gap-length playback heads for their 3.75 in/s tapes. With response flat to 12.5 kHz in the setup that I have on all the four-channel heads at 3.75 in/s--and some come close to flat at 16 kHz -- I don't think I'm compromising the tapes, especially when I see not much more than 5 kHz on most of the 3.75 in/s tapes that I transfer--though the test tape shows more playback bandwidth. By the way, on an A810, I did a record setup with Emtec 911 (NOS) and at -10 dB level had record/play response fairly flat to 28 kHz and at 0 dB (ref 250 nWb/m) had response within a dB or so out to 24 kHz--with full-track heads. I thought that was pretty amazing. I don't generally record, but when I do, I have used both A810s and APRs for the honour. I haven't yet braved setting up an A80 for record, but both my DIN and FT A80 headstacks are set for record. I chose the A810 this time around as I have two FT record headstacks and was able to play out two tracks of digital files simultaneously and increase my throughput. Cheers, Richard Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1286 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:36 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, When the APR design was in final production prototype stage and beyond, we (meaning Sony) were being pretty anal when it came to meeting 'spec' out-the-door. This was partly because Sony was that way in general, partly because when the machines were sent to Europe they went through QC AGAIN by Sony at that end, and partly because those of us that had the 'pleasure' of getting JH machines as customers hated that they were so unstable. Cary might not even be aware of the level of infighting about those issues. As a general result, it was as much political inside Sony as anything. The 3-3/4 ips issues for flutter were not so much that it was terrible with a full size shaft, but that production variations of the motors made the results very inconsistent. Those motors, as simple as they look, were fearfully hard to make to the performance standard required. As they were brushed motors as opposed to brushless, the mechanical tolerances had to be very tight, and 3.75 was just too tough with the standard shaft diameter. Redesigning the motor was too expensive, and engineering thought, not likely to improve things. (at the time I agreed, and still do) You might not hear the flutter.... after all, that is always the idea, but the Europeans in particular were always busting our chops in areas like that. We all had measuring gear and it wasn't hard to measure, regardless of how audible it might or might not have been. Sony in England was particularly a pain in the A*s. Scrape flutter filters in the headstacks also made it additionally difficult. Full rotating guides would not have allowed the machine to meet its design price point. (It is always something !!) From the original design standpoint, the machine had been spec'd as a 4 speed machine in a general sense, otherwise the provisions you are using at 3.75 wouldn't be there. I was at those meetings. That said, it wasn't being sold with all 4 speeds really in mind, and during production prototype testing I pointed out to engineering that it simply wasn't going to work. Some machines could meet spec at that speed, some could not, and most would not meet it even close after 25-40 hours of operation. During environmental testing this was even worse at cold temperatures when lubricants got stiff. Replace the motor brushes, half could meet it again, the rest not at all, Change motors (I.E. all three motors) and they were back in spec for a while again. Yes, any particular machine could be massaged by hand (and at great cost) to meet the spec, but in a production sense it wasn't feasible. A decision was made not to try to make the machine a true 3 speed, 3.75 capable machine without the necked down capstan motor. The motors were basically identical to the JH machine motors, and were well known to us, warts and all after making them for so many years. In the JH machines, this was done as well, but even there some people did a speed change to cover 3.75 after they had the machines without the motor swap. I guess they didn't mind the flutter. As I recall, the video layback JH machines also used the necked-down shafts. This 'speed' issue was revisited over and over again, but it was a can of worms from a practical standpoint, and there weren't enough 'squeaky wheels' customers of give it the attention (and money) it would have required to really deal with it. A brushed motor simply has a faster startup time than a brushless one, so it doesn't have to spin all the time and comes to settled flutter readings fast. This was something customers told us time and time again was more important to them. The basic mechanical and software design features for 3.75 remained in the JH and APR machine(s). It would have cost money to remove them, and it left the door open to selling them (the machines) with the same or different capstan shaft diameter at a later date. JH machines, having been designed when the company was MCI and not Sony, were not always 'expected' to hold spec very well. They didn't, and so it was considered not that big a deal. That changed some when Sony bought them out, but it was always the bastard stepchild. The APR was a truly new design, although from a lot of the engineers that worked on the JH machines. The JH machines were a very old design by then. The demand for a true 3.75 machine was slight from the normal users stand point (not yours, of course), so while this issue was revisited from time to time, it wasn't ever really resolved. More of a 'sleeping dogs lie' sort of thing. I know this doesn't answer your technical question, but I thought having a bit of the history of it might help you understand why the implementation of that speed seems so, well, scattered and incomplete..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:32 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 We need to revisit the reproduce EQ issues with the APR-5000 series for the sake of completeness. There are several sources of HF loss in the tape playback chain. (1) the wavelength loss caused by gap length (2) the frequency loss caused by the loading on the head (1) is calculatable (I won't bother researching and repeating the formula) but it causes a sharp null and then ripples beyond. Prior to the first null the response falls off quickly. Gap length loss is sometimes compensated by resonating the head with a shunt capacitor. Other than stray capacitance, I don't see this being done in the APR series...or did I miss it? (2) Shunting an inductor with a resistor is similar to shunting a resistor with a capacitor as far as the frequency response goes. As one increases frequency, the inductive reactance increases and that becomes an increasingly larger arm of the top half of a voltage divider with the lower half being the input impedance of the preamp. This seems to be an issue on the APR with head inductances over about 100 mH. Below that, it is less of an issue. We can see trends in the "proper" factory presets where the RGC (repro gap compensation) is increased to about C or 4 (depending on the LF contour that is also integrated into that one control) at 7.5 in/s. At 3.75, I typically find without head resonating capacitors (which I haven't tried) that I need 7 or F for this control. I also find that the HF EQ needs to be at FF or close to it, depending on specific head. I don't know if this is a bug as much as its just the nature of the beast. I did find that a two-channel, four-track head that I had was quieter when set flat than a four-channel, four-track head with tape running. Partially, perhaps, because the four-track head may actually have a narrower track width, requiring more gain. It's so frustrating trying to make this all work with no source of really new in-spec parts. Also, while the APR may not be a great performer at 3.75 and may not meet its public specs, I still find it no slouch and the transfers I get from 3.75 can be reasonably good. One of the things I hate is the sibilance of HF limiting that is common in this speed. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1287 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:18 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, Sorry if you can't accept my explanation on the software issue. I'm doing the best I can here. My memory is not too clear, but I distinctly remember there were reasons NOT to use .6 firmware. I have a hazy memory of showing this problem to the software guys. If you have machines running sucessfully at 3.75ips with that software, then I guess my memory is not as clear as I thought it was. The bottom line is the APR was never marketed to run at 3.75ips. I also don't recommend .6 for some reason I can't remember clearly. At least not in my machine. I never even brought a set of .6 EPROMS to California with me because of this. I totally wrote off that update and seem to remember it was something with erratic transport operation. We may have built a small amount of low speed APR5002's with smaller capstans for the military. We're talking 17 years ago, and I built hundreds of these things, so my memory is not so clear (it could have been a run of JH110's). One thing for certain is, the official company line was that the APR was a 3 speed machine from 7.5-30ips. We never had much demand for speeds slower than that. We were working on getting it to run correctly at 3.75ips when the engineering staff was eliminated. Two questions: When the machine comes out of play does it lose tensions? I seem to remember that may have been the case. I know this is a help-desk type question, but did you check that location 39 is set to 0 (Resolve on play) on the offending machine? ...but then it wouldn't operate correctly at any speed. Sorry I can't be of better help, but I truly don't remember all the details. If you're convinced I'm wrong on this, maybe its time to check tach signals and swap TIB and CPU boards to troubleshoot the problem. Scott, do you remember anything about the APR-5003V firmware? I remember working with Nourdine on .6 after Bill and Rosemary left. As you may remember, Nourdine was a console guy, but he had to pick up the APR project after they left. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > Now this is indeed fascinating. I wish I could accept your > explanation on the face of it, but what I have found over the years > contradicts what you related...there must be yet another factor at play. > > The bug in P.4.02.01.5 appears to be that the head block low speed > switch is forgotten/not read when you change speeds, but rather only > on power up. If I have a low-speed head assembly on the macine in low > speed, when it powers up, it comes up at 3.75. When I change the > speed to Medium, it jumps to 15. If I shut the machine off and turn > it back on, it now runs at 7.5. This problem went away with P.4.02.01.6. > > I have not measured flutter at 3.75, but I have 3 machines running at > that speed with P.4.02.01.6 software, and I think one or two others, > but I'm not sure at this point. Two of the for sure working machines > are 5003Vs and one is a 5003. I haven't asked the converte 5003-to- V > to actually pull tape at that speed--it is only being used for its > electronics as the second machine in the FrankenSony pair. > > I appreciate the explanation, but if you or someone else can help > reconcile what I saw with your explanation, I'd appreciate that. > > By the way, the 2-pole A810 capstan motors are slightly worse at 3.75 > in/s than the 4-pole motors that don't do 30 in/s. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 01:31 AM 2007-11-19, ladewd wrote: > >Hey Richard, > > > >The APR-5003V with P.4.02.01.6 firmware had a bug at 3.75ips. It > >looks like you found it. The machine was never really geared to > >operate at 3.75ips, but under certain circumstances it could be > >tricked into it by using the head ID dip switches. The EQ curves > >were not quite right but you could mess with the gap compensation > >settings to correct it. JH machines that were made to run at > >3.75ips had a smaller diameter capstan shafts and correct EQ. We > >could never get good flutter specs at that speed with the standard > >capstan shaft diameter. All our machines were only 3 speed machines. > >The JH110's that ran at 3.75ips had a hi speed of 15ips. > > > >We did attempt to get it running at 3.75ips, but the Engineering > >staff was laid off before they got to fix the bug they introduced in > >version P.4.02.01.6 (while they were trying to correct the bug in > >P.4.02.01.5) . This was the main reason I suggest to use > >P.4.02.01.5 to everyone with a 5003V. > > > >I never saw a small diameter shaft on an APR, but perhaps Amp > >Services can convert one for you (If they're still in business). If > >you have machines that operate OK at that speed, its a good thing, > >but as you found out, for the 5003V, P.4.02.01.5 had a problem and I > >believe P.4.02.01.6 had a more serious issue (the tape stopped > >playing). You'd get better flutter specs with a smaller capstan > >shaft and the APR would think its running at 7.5ips. The counter > >would still be correct because its not read by capstan speed. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > >wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops > >out > > > of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. > > > > > > All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not have > > > this problem. > > > > > > This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in the > >studio. > > > > > > It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least > > > that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was > >stopped > > > -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. > > > > > > Where to start looking would be a help. > > > > > > Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have > >here > > > which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug > >that > > > if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power > >off > > > reboot the machine after each speed change. > > > > > > Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update any > > > others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@ > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1288 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:56 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email What little I remember about .6 was it was the same as you remember.... transport operation was erratic, and it made tension mistakes at lower speeds. This made for a pop in the tensions, which the software decided was unsafe, and stopped the machine. I don't remember much beyond that I'm afraid, it was just too long ago. Like most of APR software, you couldn't touch one part of the software without it having unintended consequences. Bill told me once when we talked about the gnarly transport software that this was because there wasn't active tension sensing on both sides of the machine, so much of the transports software tension decisions were based on incomplete information and a lot of assumptions hammered into the software. This was based again on a LOT of trips through the QA software test cycles and engineering tests. The result worked.... but change one line of code anywhere, and something nasty was likely, in the most unlikely areas. It got so bad that I remember setting up video cameras over the machines during QA testing of the design so that when a QA guy got the machine to do something bizarre, you could review the tapes and see what 30-something combination of key strokes made it mess up. It was very tense at times like that between us and the engineering group.... sometimes they were sure we were crazy. At the end of the day, it reinforce what I always knew... it is literally impossible to test every possible aspect of software that controls analog hardware. TOO many variables. One combination made the machine suddenly play backwards, in record, when what the user did was press play after someone accidentally leaned on the keypad. The issues there actually rooted in the tension end of the software, believe it or not. Crazy stuff, that was. The reason I remember the initial problems at low speeds was because at that time, I was dead square in the middle between the design engineering group and the production engineering group who had to build the durn thing. As I was representing QA / QC in these matters, most of whatever 'dirt' in the design was either found by us in QA or found in production past me. QA got over ruled now and then by whomever was the current company president, and I remember this being a fight QA wasn't going to win... no one in engineering really wanted to spend the time and money on this part of things, and the market wasn't going to pay for it either by then. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 Richard, Sorry if you can't accept my explanation on the software issue. I'm doing the best I can here. My memory is not too clear, but I distinctly remember there were reasons NOT to use .6 firmware. I have a hazy memory of showing this problem to the software guys. If you have machines running sucessfully at 3.75ips with that software, then I guess my memory is not as clear as I thought it was. The bottom line is the APR was never marketed to run at 3.75ips. I also don't recommend .6 for some reason I can't remember clearly. At least not in my machine. I never even brought a set of .6 EPROMS to California with me because of this. I totally wrote off that update and seem to remember it was something with erratic transport operation. We may have built a small amount of low speed APR5002's with smaller capstans for the military. We're talking 17 years ago, and I built hundreds of these things, so my memory is not so clear (it could have been a run of JH110's). One thing for certain is, the official company line was that the APR was a 3 speed machine from 7.5-30ips. We never had much demand for speeds slower than that. We were working on getting it to run correctly at 3.75ips when the engineering staff was eliminated. Two questions: When the machine comes out of play does it lose tensions? I seem to remember that may have been the case. I know this is a help-desk type question, but did you check that location 39 is set to 0 (Resolve on play) on the offending machine? ...but then it wouldn't operate correctly at any speed. Sorry I can't be of better help, but I truly don't remember all the details. If you're convinced I'm wrong on this, maybe its time to check tach signals and swap TIB and CPU boards to troubleshoot the problem. Scott, do you remember anything about the APR-5003V firmware? I remember working with Nourdine on .6 after Bill and Rosemary left. As you may remember, Nourdine was a console guy, but he had to pick up the APR project after they left. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > Now this is indeed fascinating. I wish I could accept your > explanation on the face of it, but what I have found over the years > contradicts what you related...there must be yet another factor at play. > > The bug in P.4.02.01.5 appears to be that the head block low speed > switch is forgotten/not read when you change speeds, but rather only > on power up. If I have a low-speed head assembly on the macine in low > speed, when it powers up, it comes up at 3.75. When I change the > speed to Medium, it jumps to 15. If I shut the machine off and turn > it back on, it now runs at 7.5. This problem went away with P.4.02.01.6. > > I have not measured flutter at 3.75, but I have 3 machines running at > that speed with P.4.02.01.6 software, and I think one or two others, > but I'm not sure at this point. Two of the for sure working machines > are 5003Vs and one is a 5003. I haven't asked the converte 5003-to- V > to actually pull tape at that speed--it is only being used for its > electronics as the second machine in the FrankenSony pair. > > I appreciate the explanation, but if you or someone else can help > reconcile what I saw with your explanation, I'd appreciate that. > > By the way, the 2-pole A810 capstan motors are slightly worse at 3.75 > in/s than the 4-pole motors that don't do 30 in/s. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 01:31 AM 2007-11-19, ladewd wrote: > >Hey Richard, > > > >The APR-5003V with P.4.02.01.6 firmware had a bug at 3.75ips. It > >looks like you found it. The machine was never really geared to > >operate at 3.75ips, but under certain circumstances it could be > >tricked into it by using the head ID dip switches. The EQ curves > >were not quite right but you could mess with the gap compensation > >settings to correct it. JH machines that were made to run at > >3.75ips had a smaller diameter capstan shafts and correct EQ. We > >could never get good flutter specs at that speed with the standard > >capstan shaft diameter. All our machines were only 3 speed machines. > >The JH110's that ran at 3.75ips had a hi speed of 15ips. > > > >We did attempt to get it running at 3.75ips, but the Engineering > >staff was laid off before they got to fix the bug they introduced in > >version P.4.02.01.6 (while they were trying to correct the bug in > >P.4.02.01.5) . This was the main reason I suggest to use > >P.4.02.01.5 to everyone with a 5003V. > > > >I never saw a small diameter shaft on an APR, but perhaps Amp > >Services can convert one for you (If they're still in business). If > >you have machines that operate OK at that speed, its a good thing, > >but as you found out, for the 5003V, P.4.02.01.5 had a problem and I > >believe P.4.02.01.6 had a more serious issue (the tape stopped > >playing). You'd get better flutter specs with a smaller capstan > >shaft and the APR would think its running at 7.5ips. The counter > >would still be correct because its not read by capstan speed. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Richard L. Hess" > >wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops > >out > > > of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. > > > > > > All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not have > > > this problem. > > > > > > This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in the > >studio. > > > > > > It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least > > > that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was > >stopped > > > -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. > > > > > > Where to start looking would be a help. > > > > > > Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have > >here > > > which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug > >that > > > if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power > >off > > > reboot the machine after each speed change. > > > > > > Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update any > > > others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@ > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > Detailed contact information: > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1289 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:26 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ladewd Offline Send Email Thanks Scott, at least I know now I'm not totally losing it. I hear ya on the missing tension arm. The APR was not a true dynamic transport. All of the tension and radius coefficients were stored in look up tables and its not truly dynamic like a Studer or even the older analog transport JH machines. In the end it worked out ok. It certainly would have turned out cheaper if they added the cost of the extra tension arm vs all the software issues we had with those machines, but then we wouldn't have been able to put it in the package size demanded by Japan. I think the code would have been much more straight forward had we chose the dynamic design model. This basic design decision was the main reason we could never get the APR- 24 to play in reverse like the Otaris. God knows we tried like hell. We had the room for the extra tension arm sensor on the take-up side, but they chose to use the same software model for the multi-track as they did for the APR-5000's. We could never get the tensions right when playing in reverse. Richard, when you're comparing machines, since this is a software issue, everything must totally match when comparing machines, down to every key press and mode the machine is in. I remember .6 losing tensions and that deemed it unusable to me due to the possibility of tape spillage. What mode the machine was in or what caused it I can't remember clearly, but you as a tape restoration expert, should be aware of this situation. Granted, losing tensions in Play at 3.75ips would not seem to cause tape damage, but I seem to remember it was a bit more serious than that. Whatever it was, it blew my confidence in that version software. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > What little I remember about .6 was it was the same as you > remember.... transport operation was erratic, and it made tension > mistakes at lower speeds. This made for a pop in the tensions, which the > software decided was unsafe, and stopped the machine. I don't remember > much beyond that I'm afraid, it was just too long ago. Like most of APR > software, you couldn't touch one part of the software without it having > unintended consequences. Bill told me once when we talked about the > gnarly transport software that this was because there wasn't active > tension sensing on both sides of the machine, so much of the transports > software tension decisions were based on incomplete information and a > lot of assumptions hammered into the software. This was based again on a > LOT of trips through the QA software test cycles and engineering tests. > The result worked.... but change one line of code anywhere, and > something nasty was likely, in the most unlikely areas. It got so bad > that I remember setting up video cameras over the machines during QA > testing of the design so that when a QA guy got the machine to do > something bizarre, you could review the tapes and see what 30- something > combination of key strokes made it mess up. It was very tense at times > like that between us and the engineering group.... sometimes they were > sure we were crazy. At the end of the day, it reinforce what I always > knew... it is literally impossible to test every possible aspect of > software that controls analog hardware. TOO many variables. > > One combination made the machine suddenly play backwards, in record, > when what the user did was press play after someone accidentally leaned > on the keypad. The issues there actually rooted in the tension end of > the software, believe it or not. Crazy stuff, that was. > > The reason I remember the initial problems at low speeds was because > at that time, I was dead square in the middle between the design > engineering group and the production engineering group who had to build > the durn thing. As I was representing QA / QC in these matters, most of > whatever 'dirt' in the design was either found by us in QA or found in > production past me. QA got over ruled now and then by whomever was the > current company president, and I remember this being a fight QA wasn't > going to win... no one in engineering really wanted to spend the time > and money on this part of things, and the market wasn't going to pay for > it either by then. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 > > > > Richard, > > Sorry if you can't accept my explanation on the software issue. I'm > doing the best I can here. My memory is not too clear, but I > distinctly remember there were reasons NOT to use .6 firmware. I have > a hazy memory of showing this problem to the software guys. If you > have machines running sucessfully at 3.75ips with that software, then > I guess my memory is not as clear as I thought it was. The bottom > line is the APR was never marketed to run at 3.75ips. I also don't > recommend .6 for some reason I can't remember clearly. At least not > in my machine. I never even brought a set of .6 EPROMS to California > with me because of this. I totally wrote off that update and seem to > remember it was something with erratic transport operation. > > We may have built a small amount of low speed APR5002's with smaller > capstans for the military. We're talking 17 years ago, and I built > hundreds of these things, so my memory is not so clear (it could have > been a run of JH110's). One thing for certain is, the official > company line was that the APR was a 3 speed machine from 7.5-30ips. > We never had much demand for speeds slower than that. We were working > on getting it to run correctly at 3.75ips when the engineering staff > was eliminated. > > Two questions: When the machine comes out of play does it lose > tensions? I seem to remember that may have been the case. I know > this is a help-desk type question, but did you check that location 39 > is set to 0 (Resolve on play) on the offending machine? ...but then > it wouldn't operate correctly at any speed. > > Sorry I can't be of better help, but I truly don't remember all the > details. If you're convinced I'm wrong on this, maybe its time to > check tach signals and swap TIB and CPU boards to troubleshoot the > problem. > > Scott, do you remember anything about the APR-5003V firmware? I > remember working with Nourdine on .6 after Bill and Rosemary left. > As you may remember, Nourdine was a console guy, but he had to pick > up the APR project after they left. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > > > Hi, Cary, > > > > Now this is indeed fascinating. I wish I could accept your > > explanation on the face of it, but what I have found over the years > > contradicts what you related...there must be yet another factor at > play. > > > > The bug in P.4.02.01.5 appears to be that the head block low speed > > switch is forgotten/not read when you change speeds, but rather > only > > on power up. If I have a low-speed head assembly on the macine in > low > > speed, when it powers up, it comes up at 3.75. When I change the > > speed to Medium, it jumps to 15. If I shut the machine off and turn > > it back on, it now runs at 7.5. This problem went away with > P.4.02.01.6. > > > > I have not measured flutter at 3.75, but I have 3 machines running > at > > that speed with P.4.02.01.6 software, and I think one or two > others, > > but I'm not sure at this point. Two of the for sure working > machines > > are 5003Vs and one is a 5003. I haven't asked the converte 5003- to- > V > > to actually pull tape at that speed--it is only being used for its > > electronics as the second machine in the FrankenSony pair. > > > > I appreciate the explanation, but if you or someone else can help > > reconcile what I saw with your explanation, I'd appreciate that. > > > > By the way, the 2-pole A810 capstan motors are slightly worse at > 3.75 > > in/s than the 4-pole motors that don't do 30 in/s. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 01:31 AM 2007-11-19, ladewd wrote: > > >Hey Richard, > > > > > >The APR-5003V with P.4.02.01.6 firmware had a bug at 3.75ips. It > > >looks like you found it. The machine was never really geared to > > >operate at 3.75ips, but under certain circumstances it could be > > >tricked into it by using the head ID dip switches. The EQ curves > > >were not quite right but you could mess with the gap compensation > > >settings to correct it. JH machines that were made to run at > > >3.75ips had a smaller diameter capstan shafts and correct EQ. We > > >could never get good flutter specs at that speed with the standard > > >capstan shaft diameter. All our machines were only 3 speed > machines. > > >The JH110's that ran at 3.75ips had a hi speed of 15ips. > > > > > >We did attempt to get it running at 3.75ips, but the Engineering > > >staff was laid off before they got to fix the bug they introduced > in > > >version P.4.02.01.6 (while they were trying to correct the bug in > > >P.4.02.01.5) . This was the main reason I suggest to use > > >P.4.02.01.5 to everyone with a 5003V. > > > > > >I never saw a small diameter shaft on an APR, but perhaps Amp > > >Services can convert one for you (If they're still in business). If > > >you have machines that operate OK at that speed, its a good thing, > > >but as you found out, for the 5003V, P.4.02.01.5 had a problem and > I > > >believe P.4.02.01.6 had a more serious issue (the tape stopped > > >playing). You'd get better flutter specs with a smaller capstan > > >shaft and the APR would think its running at 7.5ips. The counter > > >would still be correct because its not read by capstan speed. > > > > > >Cary > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "Richard L. Hess" > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I have one APR-5003V which runs for a few seconds and then drops > > >out > > > > of play at 3.75 in/s. All is fine at 7.5 and I think faster. > > > > > > > > All the other 5003Vs, 5003s, and 5002s that I've tried do not > have > > > > this problem. > > > > > > > > This has the P.4.02.01.6 software as do most of my machines in > the > > >studio. > > > > > > > > It seems as if it's not getting a move sensor pulse -- at least > > > > that's what the A810 or A807 would do if the move sensor was > > >stopped > > > > -- but the move sensor is moving with the tape. > > > > > > > > Where to start looking would be a help. > > > > > > > > Alternatively, I can just move the PROMs into the machine I have > > >here > > > > which is running P.4.02.01.5 software that has the annoying bug > > >that > > > > if you're in slow speed mode (99% of my work), you have to power > > >off > > > > reboot the machine after each speed change. > > > > > > > > Other than the two PROMs on the CPU board, do I have to update > any > > > > others in the machine for the .5 to .6 upgrade? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@ > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > > Detailed contact information: > > >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@ > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1290 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:47 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Cary and Scott, First of all THANK YOU both for the insight you provide on these machines. As it turns out, from a transport perspective, I am growing fonder and fonder of the A80. The repro cards are excellent as well. HOWEVER, the APR makes my bread and butter work so much easier because of its ability to do so many things well. In order for A80s to be as flexible as APRs, I would need dozens of playback cards and many more blank head assemblies than I have or am likely to find at a reasonable price. So, for better or for worse, I'll be using APRs for the long haul and, frankly, I like the way they sound. I am not surprised of the things you tell me about design tradeoffs. I know those exist in many other machines as well. You may be interested that the example I have linked here http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/09/27/azimuth-hows-and-whys/ was done at 1.88 in/s on the APR. 3.75 at -50% varispeed. The flutter you hear is not from the APR as I would not hear that much from the MRL tape. Also, interesting to note that the 3402 digi machine has a turned-down capstan. I think the 3202 has one as well. In some respects, I'm thinking that the best transfer machine may be a Stony -- an A80 with APR electronics... . Cary, I think that you've given me a hint possibly to look at registers again as I'd rather use the .6 software because of the way the speed change logic works...but I don't know if it's worth spending time on at the moment. This one APR5003V is the only one which had the problem I mentioned. I tried the APR5003+ (the modded one I just got) and it worked fine at 3.75, transport wise. It even worked well at 3.75 -50% varispeed, or 1.88 in/s. What other transport will even consider going to 1.88 without being a dedicated transport? (Hint: the Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder which is pinchrollerless does 15/16-60 in/s and will, apparently, cover 0.45 in/s tp 90 in/s with external drive). While I am sure the performance is degraded compared to 7.5 in/s at speeds slower than 7.5 in/s, this is true with all machines. Here are the DIN 45507 Peak weighted flutter measurements for several machines. The meaning of these numbers is, of course, marginal, but it is an idea that you guys where trying to be: in the same ballpark or beat Studer at this. Sony APR 3.75 0.100% 7.5 0.055% 15 0.035% 30 0.025% Studer A80RC 3.75 not spec'd 7.5 0.06% 15 0.04% 30 0.04% Studer A810 3.75 0.12% 7.5 0.07% 15 0.05% 30 0.04% Studer A807 3.75 0.10% 7.5 0.07% 15 0.05% 30 0.05% Interestingly, Nakamichi claimed Less than 0.04% WTD Peak Wow and Flutter for the Dragon, while Studer claimed 0.07% at 1.88 in/s for the cassette-tape-width A80QC. Thanks again! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1291 From: "mixbus" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:31 pm Subject: Parts for the APR-5000 series of machines? mixbus Offline Send Email Hello all, I am new to the list and have searched a bit before asking this question. What is the status on parts for these machines? I have a line on 2 APR-5002's and 1 5003. I will buy all 3 if it would be necessary to do so to keep 1 machine going. They would be bought "as is" but I am having a tech look at them to make sure they are at least functional & worth the time & freight to get them to me. I did find another person who had 3 5003-V's in almost mint shape, but he wants $10K for all 3! Anyway, any pointers would be appreciated! Thanks! -- Tom Jancauskas Imedia Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1292 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:49 pm Subject: Re: Parts for the APR-5000 series of machines? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Tom, I have 27 APRs and feel comfortable going forward. It breaks down something like this: 5 working in the studio 2 ready to go in storage 3 with hopefully minor issues 3 with more major issues 3 that I can hopefully rebuild 11 machines that are beyond hope and will be parted out. Most of these are older machines (see below) or had already been partially parted out by the original owner. Some of the 9 machines that have issues have really bad-sounding reel motor bearings, so that is a research project for me. I have figured out that the Studer A80s can be rebuilt with stock bearings. There are about 30 of them in each machine. That said, I have been using APRs for tape transfers since 1999, I have not had one fail (touch wood). I do not run them every day by any means. But I am very concerned about parts which is why I've acquired this heap. Parts are unavailable unless they are stock parts. There are many hard-to-get parts. For example, there is a minimum order of 20 pieces for the head block connector at over $100 each and that was four years ago--and for each half of the mating pair. I would buy all three just to have the head assemblies. I have three good-condition head assemblies for my Studer A80s: full-track mono record/play, two-track NAB stereo play only with external azimuth adjuster, DIN stereo record/play. I do these formats at 7.5/15 (and soon 30) on the A80s when they are masters. I do oral histories on the APRs and have so many as I ingest multiple tapes simultaneously. I would look at the three machines. If they don't have ceramic tape lifters and 1/2-inch-capable rotating guides, then I would consider them parts machines. I would also check the heads. I've received many very worn and beat up APRs. They can take some abuse, but I'm amazed at how dinged some are. I got a nice working 5003 with some of the -V conversions in it last week for $450 but the top plate looked as if someone had taken a scraper to it and even tried to ding it. Machine works fine--one of the carcasses gave up its top plate. I keep buying machines when deals fall in my lap like this one. He even delivered it and it came with the RM-5010 remote. Hope this helps. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1293 From: "Rick@..." Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:53 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 allegrosound Offline Send Email hi Richard, please advise source/conditions of the measurements cited; thank you. "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hello, Cary and Scott, First of all THANK YOU both for the insight you provide on these machines. As it turns out, from a transport perspective, I am growing fonder and fonder of the A80. The repro cards are excellent as well. HOWEVER, the APR makes my bread and butter work so much easier because of its ability to do so many things well. In order for A80s to be as flexible as APRs, I would need dozens of playback cards and many more blank head assemblies than I have or am likely to find at a reasonable price. So, for better or for worse, I'll be using APRs for the long haul and, frankly, I like the way they sound. I am not surprised of the things you tell me about design tradeoffs. I know those exist in many other machines as well. You may be interested that the example I have linked here http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/09/27/azimuth-hows-and-whys/ was done at 1.88 in/s on the APR. 3.75 at -50% varispeed. The flutter you hear is not from the APR as I would not hear that much from the MRL tape. Also, interesting to note that the 3402 digi machine has a turned-down capstan. I think the 3202 has one as well. In some respects, I'm thinking that the best transfer machine may be a Stony -- an A80 with APR electronics... . Cary, I think that you've given me a hint possibly to look at registers again as I'd rather use the .6 software because of the way the speed change logic works...but I don't know if it's worth spending time on at the moment. This one APR5003V is the only one which had the problem I mentioned. I tried the APR5003+ (the modded one I just got) and it worked fine at 3.75, transport wise. It even worked well at 3.75 -50% varispeed, or 1.88 in/s. What other transport will even consider going to 1.88 without being a dedicated transport? (Hint: the Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder which is pinchrollerless does 15/16-60 in/s and will, apparently, cover 0.45 in/s tp 90 in/s with external drive). While I am sure the performance is degraded compared to 7.5 in/s at speeds slower than 7.5 in/s, this is true with all machines. Here are the DIN 45507 Peak weighted flutter measurements for several machines. The meaning of these numbers is, of course, marginal, but it is an idea that you guys where trying to be: in the same ballpark or beat Studer at this. Sony APR 3.75 0.100% 7.5 0.055% 15 0.035% 30 0.025% Studer A80RC 3.75 not spec'd 7.5 0.06% 15 0.04% 30 0.04% Studer A810 3.75 0.12% 7.5 0.07% 15 0.05% 30 0.04% Studer A807 3.75 0.10% 7.5 0.07% 15 0.05% 30 0.05% Interestingly, Nakamichi claimed Less than 0.04% WTD Peak Wow and Flutter for the Dragon, while Studer claimed 0.07% at 1.88 in/s for the cassette-tape-width A80QC. Thanks again! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1294 From: mixbus@... Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:47 pm Subject: Re: Parts for the APR-5000 series of machines? mixbus Offline Send Email In a message dated 11/19/07 4:53:23 PM, arclists@... writes: > Hello, Tom, > > I have 27 APRs and feel comfortable going forward. It breaks down > something like this: > 5 working in the studio > 2 ready to go in storage > 3 with hopefully minor issues > 3 with more major issues > 3 that I can hopefully rebuild > 11 machines that are beyond hope and will be parted out. Most of > these are older machines (see below) or had already been partially > parted out by the original owner. Some of the 9 machines that have > issues have really bad-sounding reel motor bearings, so that is a > research project for me. I have figured out that the Studer A80s can > be rebuilt with stock bearings. There are about 30 of them in each machine. > > That said, I have been using APRs for tape transfers since 1999, I > have not had one fail (touch wood). I do not run them every day by > any means. But I am very concerned about parts which is why I've > acquired this heap. > > Parts are unavailable unless they are stock parts. There are many > hard-to-get parts. For example, there is a minimum order of 20 pieces > for the head block connector at over $100 each and that was four > years ago--and for each half of the mating pair. > > I would buy all three just to have the head assemblies. I have three > good-condition head assemblies for my Studer A80s: full-track mono > record/play, two-track NAB stereo play only with external azimuth > adjuster, DIN stereo record/play. I do these formats at 7.5/15 (and > soon 30) on the A80s when they are masters. I do oral histories on > the APRs and have so many as I ingest multiple tapes simultaneously. > > I would look at the three machines. If they don't have ceramic tape > lifters and 1/2-inch-capable rotating guides, then I would consider > them parts machines. I would also check the heads. I've received many > very worn and beat up APRs. They can take some abuse, but I'm amazed > at how dinged some are. I got a nice working 5003 with some of the -V > conversions in it last week for $450 but the top plate looked as if > someone had taken a scraper to it and even tried to ding it. Machine > works fine--one of the carcasses gave up its top plate. I keep buying > machines when deals fall in my lap like this one. He even delivered > it and it came with the RM-5010 remote. > > Hope this helps. > Thanks so much! Much appreciated! Would you consider looking at the pics of the machines he sent? Maybe there is something you could see that I can't. Reagrds, Tom -- Tom Jancauskas Imedia ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1295 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:59 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Rick, Sorry I wasn't clear, these are all the Weighted Peak DIN 45507 flutter measurements made by the individual manufacturers. I'm not sure if Nakamichi was using DIN 45507, but all the others reference the standard. As I think I alluded, single number flutter measurements are only a rough guide and spectrum analysis is a far more useful tool for delving into this. Cheers, Richard At 05:53 PM 2007-11-19, Rick@... wrote: >hi Richard, please advise source/conditions > of the measurements cited; thank you. > >>Here are the DIN 45507 Peak weighted flutter measurements for several >>machines. The meaning of these numbers is, of course, marginal, but >>it is an idea that you guys where trying to be: in the same ballpark >>or beat Studer at this. >> >>Sony APR >>3.75 0.100% >>7.5 0.055% >>15 0.035% >>30 0.025% >> >>Studer A80RC >>3.75 not spec'd >>7.5 0.06% >>15 0.04% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A810 >>3.75 0.12% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A807 >>3.75 0.10% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.05% >> >>Interestingly, Nakamichi claimed Less than 0.04% WTD Peak Wow and >>Flutter for the Dragon, while Studer claimed 0.07% at 1.88 in/s for >>the cassette-tape-width A80QC. > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1296 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:02 pm Subject: Re: Parts for the APR-5000 series of machines? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Tom, I would be happy to look at the pictures, but putting them in a publicly accessible site and posting the URL here would be more useful as then you might get additional opinions. It's hard to tell condition from pictures and there are no guarantees from any of us -- just our first impression of the pictures. It will, in the end, be your choice to spend your money and if you're unhappy there's no recourse against any of us for our opinions--we're trying to help, but cannot accept any liability for our recommendations. If you wish to do it based on that, I for one, would be happy to look at the pictures. (My insurance company has me nervous about getting sued). Cheers, Richard At 06:47 PM 2007-11-19, mixbus@... wrote: >Thanks so much! Much appreciated! Would you consider looking at the pics of >the machines he sent? Maybe there is something you could see that I can't. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1297 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:30 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..sticking my neck out a bit here, but other than when new I doubt the APR's, JH machines, or for that matter any of them met these specs after they got some decent run time on them... perhaps the Studers, that I wouldn't know. In QA we looked at them with a combination of Audio Precision gear, Sound Technology gear, and a bunch of single purpose test equipment. The AP rigs had dedicated hardware/software tests for flutter and scrape flutter, and could and did do spectrum analysis for this and other parameters. That said, for normal production runs the usual QA/QC tests for flutter were the single number weighted tests... it was just a practical consideration. I do remember running comprehensive testing regularly on samples from production, but after prototype and preproduction runs of the machines, complete testing with long-term 'accelerated aging' testing only happened in the middle of the production cycle when a change of importance was made in the build. There is a fine line between enough run in to make bearings seat better and having the bearings create additional flutter. There are also many things that simply take TIME itself to become a problem, and there isn't anyway around that no matter how you try to force failures. Cary has commented before about the power transformer flameouts on machines that stayed on 24/7 for years and years. The machines/transformers were tested at 40 degrees C for weeks at a time without a single failure, but years later it was a liability issue for Sony. (Flutter did go up at 40 degrees C, as the lubricant flowed in the bearings, but only after that extended heating. You don't want to know what the internal temperature was in the machine.... !!) I've often wondered if in the inner workings of Studer they had all the same worries. Manufacturers don't like to advertise such things. Perhaps not so much, they generally had a higher price point... it lets you use all sorts of better materials and trade off different design areas. Almost every real weakness in the APR's was a result of the Japanese requirement that it be so compact, and the design decisions that had to follow from that. Leave it to the sales and marketing departments to screw everything up. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 Hello, Rick, Sorry I wasn't clear, these are all the Weighted Peak DIN 45507 flutter measurements made by the individual manufacturers. I'm not sure if Nakamichi was using DIN 45507, but all the others reference the standard. As I think I alluded, single number flutter measurements are only a rough guide and spectrum analysis is a far more useful tool for delving into this. Cheers, Richard At 05:53 PM 2007-11-19, Rick@... wrote: >hi Richard, please advise source/conditions > of the measurements cited; thank you. > >>Here are the DIN 45507 Peak weighted flutter measurements for several >>machines. The meaning of these numbers is, of course, marginal, but >>it is an idea that you guys where trying to be: in the same ballpark >>or beat Studer at this. >> >>Sony APR >>3.75 0.100% >>7.5 0.055% >>15 0.035% >>30 0.025% >> >>Studer A80RC >>3.75 not spec'd >>7.5 0.06% >>15 0.04% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A810 >>3.75 0.12% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A807 >>3.75 0.10% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.05% >> >>Interestingly, Nakamichi claimed Less than 0.04% WTD Peak Wow and >>Flutter for the Dragon, while Studer claimed 0.07% at 1.88 in/s for >>the cassette-tape-width A80QC. > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1298 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:00 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..for what it is worth, Sony, I'm sure like Studer, had a much tighter internal specs for flutter and frequency response than what was published. At 1.88ips Richard ??? quite a feat for a brushed motor to even run at that speed without a gear reduction..... as I said, they were tough to make. The ceramic shafts were a very good touch, but hell to machine. Ceramic changes size with temperature during the manufacturing process. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:30 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 ..sticking my neck out a bit here, but other than when new I doubt the APR's, JH machines, or for that matter any of them met these specs after they got some decent run time on them... perhaps the Studers, that I wouldn't know. In QA we looked at them with a combination of Audio Precision gear, Sound Technology gear, and a bunch of single purpose test equipment. The AP rigs had dedicated hardware/software tests for flutter and scrape flutter, and could and did do spectrum analysis for this and other parameters. That said, for normal production runs the usual QA/QC tests for flutter were the single number weighted tests... it was just a practical consideration. I do remember running comprehensive testing regularly on samples from production, but after prototype and preproduction runs of the machines, complete testing with long-term 'accelerated aging' testing only happened in the middle of the production cycle when a change of importance was made in the build. There is a fine line between enough run in to make bearings seat better and having the bearings create additional flutter. There are also many things that simply take TIME itself to become a problem, and there isn't anyway around that no matter how you try to force failures. Cary has commented before about the power transformer flameouts on machines that stayed on 24/7 for years and years. The machines/transformers were tested at 40 degrees C for weeks at a time without a single failure, but years later it was a liability issue for Sony. (Flutter did go up at 40 degrees C, as the lubricant flowed in the bearings, but only after that extended heating. You don't want to know what the internal temperature was in the machine.... !!) I've often wondered if in the inner workings of Studer they had all the same worries. Manufacturers don't like to advertise such things. Perhaps not so much, they generally had a higher price point... it lets you use all sorts of better materials and trade off different design areas. Almost every real weakness in the APR's was a result of the Japanese requirement that it be so compact, and the design decisions that had to follow from that. Leave it to the sales and marketing departments to screw everything up. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:59 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: APR-5003V issues at 3.75 Hello, Rick, Sorry I wasn't clear, these are all the Weighted Peak DIN 45507 flutter measurements made by the individual manufacturers. I'm not sure if Nakamichi was using DIN 45507, but all the others reference the standard. As I think I alluded, single number flutter measurements are only a rough guide and spectrum analysis is a far more useful tool for delving into this. Cheers, Richard At 05:53 PM 2007-11-19, Rick@... wrote: >hi Richard, please advise source/conditions > of the measurements cited; thank you. > >>Here are the DIN 45507 Peak weighted flutter measurements for several >>machines. The meaning of these numbers is, of course, marginal, but >>it is an idea that you guys where trying to be: in the same ballpark >>or beat Studer at this. >> >>Sony APR >>3.75 0.100% >>7.5 0.055% >>15 0.035% >>30 0.025% >> >>Studer A80RC >>3.75 not spec'd >>7.5 0.06% >>15 0.04% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A810 >>3.75 0.12% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.04% >> >>Studer A807 >>3.75 0.10% >>7.5 0.07% >>15 0.05% >>30 0.05% >> >>Interestingly, Nakamichi claimed Less than 0.04% WTD Peak Wow and >>Flutter for the Dragon, while Studer claimed 0.07% at 1.88 in/s for >>the cassette-tape-width A80QC. > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1299 From: "hansalbertsson" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:43 am Subject: Screechin' tapes, a thought hansalbertsson Offline Send Email I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right place, please. If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely affected. But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to seriously affect the played-back sound? How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be automated. I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality assessment to be performed automatically. The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1300 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:43 am Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Hans, This is regularly discussed on the Ampex list, the Studer list, the ARSC list so why not here, too . I currently think that there is one over-arching form of tape degradation that will cause squeal. I call this Soft Binder Syndrome or SBS. I also think that Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) is a narrower case (a subset) of SBS. My definition of SSS is any tape that squeals and/or sheds upon playback which can be temporarily rendered playable by incubation or baking. I define SBS as a lowering of the glass transition temperature (through a variety of degradation processes) so that the tape coating is rubbery at room temperature. The squeal is caused by stick-slip so that the tape moves in small increments (jerks) across the head. This start-stop superimposes a frequency modulation (and an amplitude modulation as well, most likely) on the audio. If these were professionally recorded tapes, there is some possibility (though less in Sweden than in North America) that the recordings were made on Ampex tapes (if it were late-80s or 90s--I forget the exact tape, Ampex became Quantegy -- still same old same old). Back-coated professional mastering tapes from Ampex (and to a lesser degree from other manufacturers, and perhaps a greater degree from Pyral) suffer from SSS and some from non-SSS SBS. The Ampex tapes 406, 407, and 456 that were widely used all seem to still respond to incubation/baking. 12 hours is the current minimum recommended time. The tapes that suffer from SSS do leave huge deposits on the guides. The tapes suffering from SBS that is not also SSS leave few noticeable deposits on the heads and guides. You may read the Ampex patent on baking tapes here: http://www.richardhess.net/restoration_notes/USP5236790.pdf I have emailed you a copy of my AES Preprint. Hopefully it will be published soon in JAES or JARSC (the latter wants it, the former had right of first refusal). Also, please see these articles in my blog: http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/03/21/soft-binder-syndrome-and-sticky-shed-syn\ drome/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/05/26/binder-adhesion-to-back-of-next-layer/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/07/12/the-beginning-of-3m-175-squeal/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/11/08/success-with-squealing-shamrock-031-tape\ / I hope that helps! Cheers, Richard At 04:43 AM 2007-11-22, hansalbertsson wrote: >I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right >place, please. > >If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight >from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely affected. > >But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard >direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to >seriously affect the played-back sound? > >How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be >automated. > >I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD >for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have >to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find >automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with >confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality >assessment to be performed automatically. > >The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1301 From: "Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:56 am Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought hansalbertsson Offline Send Email Richard, I appreciate all of this, thanks, but what I'm after is to what extent one could design an automated process that decides if a tape played back and A/D converted had failed because of slight squealiness?? There should be some way to analyse the audio for "squeal" components. I have been reading the contents of your home page, with interest, and I have had some success with baking tapes and a lot of success, but also headaches, from isopropylic cooling. I'm trying to avoid baking for time reasons, and isopropylic alcohol for health reasons. So, I'm still wondering if one can measure squealing, be it SSS or SBS related. One might then assign a value for a partic tape conversion run, that can be used to identify the few runs one would have to check in detail, or redo/bake/cool. I'm also interested in if there's a level of squealiness that wouldn't show up as a squeal from the tape transport, but only in the played back sound. Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hello, Hans, > > This is regularly discussed on the Ampex list, the Studer list, the > ARSC list so why not here, too . > > I currently think that there is one over-arching form of tape > degradation that will cause squeal. I call this Soft Binder Syndrome or SBS. > > I also think that Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) is a narrower case (a > subset) of SBS. > > My definition of SSS is any tape that squeals and/or sheds upon > playback which can be temporarily rendered playable by incubation or baking. > > I define SBS as a lowering of the glass transition temperature > (through a variety of degradation processes) so that the tape coating > is rubbery at room temperature. > > The squeal is caused by stick-slip so that the tape moves in small > increments (jerks) across the head. This start-stop superimposes a > frequency modulation (and an amplitude modulation as well, most > likely) on the audio. > > If these were professionally recorded tapes, there is some > possibility (though less in Sweden than in North America) that the > recordings were made on Ampex tapes (if it were late-80s or 90s--I > forget the exact tape, Ampex became Quantegy -- still same old same > old). Back-coated professional mastering tapes from Ampex (and to a > lesser degree from other manufacturers, and perhaps a greater degree > from Pyral) suffer from SSS and some from non-SSS SBS. The Ampex > tapes 406, 407, and 456 that were widely used all seem to still > respond to incubation/baking. 12 hours is the current minimum > recommended time. > > The tapes that suffer from SSS do leave huge deposits on the guides. > The tapes suffering from SBS that is not also SSS leave few > noticeable deposits on the heads and guides. > > You may read the Ampex patent on baking tapes here: > http://www.richardh ess.net/restorat ion_notes/ USP5236790. pdf > > > I have emailed you a copy of my AES Preprint. Hopefully it will be > published soon in JAES or JARSC (the latter wants it, the former had > right of first refusal). > > Also, please see these articles in my blog: > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2007/03/21/ soft-binder- syndrome- > and-sticky- shed-syndrome/ > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2006/05/26/ binder-adhesion- to-back-of- > next-layer/ > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2006/07/12/ the-beginning- of-3m-175- > squeal/ > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2007/11/08/ success-with- squealing- > shamrock- 031-tape/ > > > I hope that helps! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:43 AM 2007-11-22, hansalbertsson wrote: > >I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right > >place, please. > > > >If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight > >from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely affected. > > > >But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard > >direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to > >seriously affect the played-back sound? > > > >How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be > >automated. > > > >I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD > >for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have > >to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find > >automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with > >confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality > >assessment to be performed automatically. > > > >The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1302 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:17 am Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, You might want to explain the baking process in a bit more detail for him, if he really is going to do this..... ..or I can. I have a feeling he will need to do a bunch of it, and simple as it is, the devils in the details..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:44 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Screechin' tapes, a thought Hello, Hans, This is regularly discussed on the Ampex list, the Studer list, the ARSC list so why not here, too . I currently think that there is one over-arching form of tape degradation that will cause squeal. I call this Soft Binder Syndrome or SBS. I also think that Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) is a narrower case (a subset) of SBS. My definition of SSS is any tape that squeals and/or sheds upon playback which can be temporarily rendered playable by incubation or baking. I define SBS as a lowering of the glass transition temperature (through a variety of degradation processes) so that the tape coating is rubbery at room temperature. The squeal is caused by stick-slip so that the tape moves in small increments (jerks) across the head. This start-stop superimposes a frequency modulation (and an amplitude modulation as well, most likely) on the audio. If these were professionally recorded tapes, there is some possibility (though less in Sweden than in North America) that the recordings were made on Ampex tapes (if it were late-80s or 90s--I forget the exact tape, Ampex became Quantegy -- still same old same old). Back-coated professional mastering tapes from Ampex (and to a lesser degree from other manufacturers, and perhaps a greater degree from Pyral) suffer from SSS and some from non-SSS SBS. The Ampex tapes 406, 407, and 456 that were widely used all seem to still respond to incubation/baking. 12 hours is the current minimum recommended time. The tapes that suffer from SSS do leave huge deposits on the guides. The tapes suffering from SBS that is not also SSS leave few noticeable deposits on the heads and guides. You may read the Ampex patent on baking tapes here: http://www.richardhess.net/restoration_notes/USP5236790.pdf I have emailed you a copy of my AES Preprint. Hopefully it will be published soon in JAES or JARSC (the latter wants it, the former had right of first refusal). Also, please see these articles in my blog: http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/03/21/soft-binder-syndrome-and-sticky- shed-syndrome/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/05/26/binder-adhesion-to-back-of-next- layer/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/07/12/the-beginning-of-3m-175-squeal/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/11/08/success-with-squealing-shamrock- 031-tape/ I hope that helps! Cheers, Richard At 04:43 AM 2007-11-22, hansalbertsson wrote: >I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right >place, please. > >If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight >from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely affected. > >But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard >direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to >seriously affect the played-back sound? > >How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be >automated. > >I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD >for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have >to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find >automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with >confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality >assessment to be performed automatically. > >The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1303 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:24 am Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hey, We're assuming these tapes need to be baked - if so, link below - but there's also the possibility these are thin (.5 mil) tapes that I've heard squeal for "other" reasons (lack of lubricant?). Hans, can you tell the make and type of tape from the box? http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html eddie > Richard, > > You might want to explain the baking process in a bit more detail for > him, if he really is going to do this..... > > ..or I can. I have a feeling he will need to do a bunch of it, and > simple as it is, the devils in the details..... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:44 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Screechin' tapes, a thought > > Hello, Hans, > > This is regularly discussed on the Ampex list, the Studer list, the > ARSC list so why not here, too . > > I currently think that there is one over-arching form of tape > degradation that will cause squeal. I call this Soft Binder Syndrome or > SBS. > > I also think that Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) is a narrower case (a > subset) of SBS. > > My definition of SSS is any tape that squeals and/or sheds upon > playback which can be temporarily rendered playable by incubation or > baking. > > I define SBS as a lowering of the glass transition temperature > (through a variety of degradation processes) so that the tape coating > is rubbery at room temperature. > > The squeal is caused by stick-slip so that the tape moves in small > increments (jerks) across the head. This start-stop superimposes a > frequency modulation (and an amplitude modulation as well, most > likely) on the audio. > > If these were professionally recorded tapes, there is some > possibility (though less in Sweden than in North America) that the > recordings were made on Ampex tapes (if it were late-80s or 90s--I > forget the exact tape, Ampex became Quantegy -- still same old same > old). Back-coated professional mastering tapes from Ampex (and to a > lesser degree from other manufacturers, and perhaps a greater degree > from Pyral) suffer from SSS and some from non-SSS SBS. The Ampex > tapes 406, 407, and 456 that were widely used all seem to still > respond to incubation/baking. 12 hours is the current minimum > recommended time. > > The tapes that suffer from SSS do leave huge deposits on the guides. > The tapes suffering from SBS that is not also SSS leave few > noticeable deposits on the heads and guides. > > You may read the Ampex patent on baking tapes here: > http://www.richardhess.net/restoration_notes/USP5236790.pdf > > > > > I have emailed you a copy of my AES Preprint. Hopefully it will be > published soon in JAES or JARSC (the latter wants it, the former had > right of first refusal). > > Also, please see these articles in my blog: > > http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/03/21/soft-binder-syndrome-and-sticky- > > shed-syndrome/ > > -shed-syndrome/> > > http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/05/26/binder-adhesion-to-back-of-next- > > layer/ > > -layer/> > > http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/07/12/the-beginning-of-3m-175-squeal/ > > > > > > http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/11/08/success-with-squealing-shamrock- > > 031-tape/ > > -031-tape/> > > I hope that helps! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:43 AM 2007-11-22, hansalbertsson wrote: > >I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right > >place, please. > > > >If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight > >from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely > affected. > > > >But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard > >direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to > >seriously affect the played-back sound? > > > >How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be > >automated. > > > >I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD > >for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have > >to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find > >automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with > >confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality > >assessment to be performed automatically. > > > >The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1304 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:24 am Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've experienced, on both 2" and 1/4" tape, the effect you mentioned, without audible mechanical squeal from the transport. I think this qualifies as a form of scrape flutter, but from defective tape. How to analyze this en mass? Seems to me running a long (entire length of tape) duration spectrum analysis might work. I think with some experimentation the huge peak of energy present might be easily seen. Richard ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of "Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet" Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:56 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Screechin' tapes, a thought Richard, I appreciate all of this, thanks, but what I'm after is to what extent one could design an automated process that decides if a tape played back and A/D converted had failed because of slight squealiness?? There should be some way to analyse the audio for "squeal" components. I have been reading the contents of your home page, with interest, and I have had some success with baking tapes and a lot of success, but also headaches, from isopropylic cooling. I'm trying to avoid baking for time reasons, and isopropylic alcohol for health reasons. So, I'm still wondering if one can measure squealing, be it SSS or SBS related. One might then assign a value for a partic tape conversion run, that can be used to identify the few runs one would have to check in detail, or redo/bake/cool. I'm also interested in if there's a level of squealiness that wouldn't show up as a squeal from the tape transport, but only in the played back sound. Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hello, Hans, > > This is regularly discussed on the Ampex list, the Studer list, the > ARSC list so why not here, too . > > I currently think that there is one over-arching form of tape > degradation that will cause squeal. I call this Soft Binder Syndrome or SBS. > > I also think that Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) is a narrower case (a > subset) of SBS. > > My definition of SSS is any tape that squeals and/or sheds upon > playback which can be temporarily rendered playable by incubation or baking. > > I define SBS as a lowering of the glass transition temperature > (through a variety of degradation processes) so that the tape coating > is rubbery at room temperature. > > The squeal is caused by stick-slip so that the tape moves in small > increments (jerks) across the head. This start-stop superimposes a > frequency modulation (and an amplitude modulation as well, most > likely) on the audio. > > If these were professionally recorded tapes, there is some > possibility (though less in Sweden than in North America) that the > recordings were made on Ampex tapes (if it were late-80s or 90s--I > forget the exact tape, Ampex became Quantegy -- still same old same > old). Back-coated professional mastering tapes from Ampex (and to a > lesser degree from other manufacturers, and perhaps a greater degree > from Pyral) suffer from SSS and some from non-SSS SBS. The Ampex > tapes 406, 407, and 456 that were widely used all seem to still > respond to incubation/baking. 12 hours is the current minimum > recommended time. > > The tapes that suffer from SSS do leave huge deposits on the guides. > The tapes suffering from SBS that is not also SSS leave few > noticeable deposits on the heads and guides. > > You may read the Ampex patent on baking tapes here: > http://www.richardh ess.net/restorat ion_notes/ USP5236790. pdf > > > > I have emailed you a copy of my AES Preprint. Hopefully it will be > published soon in JAES or JARSC (the latter wants it, the former had > right of first refusal). > > Also, please see these articles in my blog: > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2007/03/21/ soft-binder- syndrome- > and-sticky- shed-syndrome/ > > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2006/05/26/ binder-adhesion- to-back-of- > next-layer/ > > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2006/07/12/ the-beginning- of-3m-175- > squeal/ > > > > http://richardhess. com/notes/ 2007/11/08/ success-with- squealing- > shamrock- 031-tape/ > > > > I hope that helps! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 04:43 AM 2007-11-22, hansalbertsson wrote: > >I dunno if this really belongs in here, if not, point me to the right > >place, please. > > > >If one has a squealy tape, really squealy, you'll hear it straight > >from the transport, and the played-back sound will be severely affected. > > > >But, can there be a squealy tape that's not squealy enough to be heard > >direct via air from the tape itself but still squealy enough to > >seriously affect the played-back sound? > > > >How does one measure to know? I really mean measure, so it could be > >automated. > > > >I possibly have an assignment to transfer like hundreds of tapes to CD > >for the family of a deceased singer. They won't pay what it would have > >to cost if I must listen actively to every minute, so I must find > >automated methods to enable me to transfer multiple tapes at once with > >confidence and that would, among other things, require some quality > >assessment to be performed automatically. > > > >The tapes were proffessionally produced, in the 70-s and 80-s. > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1305 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:31 am Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Hans, The challenge with what you propose is that if the tape needs baking, you will potentially DESTROY the tape by playing it (or even winding it) prior to baking. I am not sure if I haven't seen some ultrasonic squealing in spectra--I know that bats weren't recorded, but I see some small bursts of HF energy that I don't here in a few wide-band (88.2) transfers that I have done. The recording chain just couldn't have put all that energy out there... Cold playing (now is a good time ) will replace Isopropyl wetting and I don't use the wet playing techniques any more (I've never been a major user), but even if you detect the squealing, you can't fix it with any post-processing techniques. Jamie Haworth says his Plangent Processes can fix squealing, but you're still potentially damaging the tapes. My position on this is that you must fix the anomaly and not stress the tape by allowing it to squeal. Jamie feels that I'm stressing the tape more by cold playback -- I feel he's stressing the tape more by playing it with squeal and using his process to take it out. As an alternative--what I do--is ingest tapes 4 or even 6 at a time and listen with one speaker on the mono sum of each machine (that works through 5 and due to some anomalies in my system (the fact that I have two RME multifaces), I run multiple machines into the centre channel as that is the only speaker monitoring inputs 9-16. Anyway, monitoring would only tell you it's time to stop the tape -- which may be a good thing -- but I think with multiple-machine monitoring you can tell that audibly as well. Squeal usually starts within the first ten minutes of a tape. But if you hear squeal, I think it important to stop, not know about it after the fact, as I think it's doing damage. However, what brand tapes are these? If they are Ampex, they've got to be baked from this era or the oxide will be on the back coating. Please read the section of the emailed preprint on this--it's very interesting where Dr. Bradshaw suggested to me that the binder and back-coating bond. Baking breaks those bonds. No baking and the back coating pulls the oxide off (usually). If they are Pryal tapes, you may have to wet-play them. But I'd like you to experiment with cccold playback. Also, if you're willing, you ought to have real cold in Sweden right now -- just put the thing outside on a clear day and see what happens. We had good reports of that technique last fall from Minneapolis. It's cold and snowy here in the Greater Toronto Area today. Anyway, I think we're coming at this from two different directions and I see risks associated with your approach -- perhaps because I'm not understanding it completely. I think you can pre-qualify tapes that will potentially squeal from lists and from your first few reels and then spend more time with those. The 3M 206/207 for example should be fine to transfer unattended. You can also walk away after the first 10-15 minutes and be pretty safe. My multiple ingests depend on format, but an example session would be 4 stereo cassettes (from four Dragons) and two 4-track open reel tapes from two "FrankenSony" APR machine pairs -- giving me 16 simultaneous ingest channels. Cheers, Richard At 09:56 AM 2007-11-22, Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet wrote: >Richard, > >I appreciate all of this, thanks, but what I'm after is >to what extent one could design an automated process that >decides if a tape played back and A/D converted had failed because of >slight squealiness?? There should be some way to analyse the audio >for "squeal" components. > >I have been reading the contents of your home page, with interest, and I >have had some success with baking tapes and a lot of success, but also >headaches, from isopropylic cooling. I'm trying to avoid baking for time >reasons, and isopropylic alcohol for health reasons. > >So, I'm still wondering if one can measure squealing, be it SSS or SBS >related. One might then assign a value for a partic tape conversion run, >that can be used to identify the few runs one would have to check in >detail, or redo/bake/cool. >I'm also interested in if there's a level of squealiness that wouldn't >show up as a squeal from the tape transport, but only in the played back >sound. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1306 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:45 am Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, I linked to the Ampex patent which provides the basics of time/temperature. But you're right...here's Wendy Carlos's version of Eddie Ciletti's original article http://www.wendycarlos.com/bake%20a%20tape/baketape.html And the original http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html I think we agree that he'll be doing a lot of baking...but there is still the Sweden factor and what tapes were available there. Very few Agfa/BASF tapes suffer from SBS of any flavour and the one that apparently did perhaps did not respond to Ampex-friendly baking (as outlined above). Pyral is till an unknown for me, although I have heard people say it was awful. I don't think much Zonal needs baking, but the jury's out if it has non-bakeable SBS and whether if it does if cold play will help. Sony PR150 and 3M175 are the two primary cold-play candidates at the moment. Shamrock 031 doesn't respond to either cold play (at 4C) or baking even though it's an Ampex reject. Of course, 031 could be anything, really, so one reel of 031 is presumed to be different from others. The reel I had might have not worked with cold play because the Tg fell below that of the fridge and of course the A810 heats up in operation. I don't quite fully understand why the Racal played it without squeal, but thank heavens for little blessings. I think I posted some theories in the original article. I think Hans is in for a big project and I wish him well. There was just a discussion of Quadriga/Audio Cube and NOA over on the Studer list and these are the two logging packages that I am aware of. I see the potential of logging packages INCREASING my effort as I go back and try and resolve each and every flagged anomaly--even if I didn't hear it on the first pass. At least my client base isn't paying for that and I don't think they're willing to pay for that. I see it as a far greater cost than just the pricy software. Cheers, Richard At 10:17 AM 2007-11-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >Richard, > >You might want to explain the baking process in a bit more detail for >him, if he really is going to do this..... > >..or I can. I have a feeling he will need to do a bunch of it, and >simple as it is, the devils in the details..... > >Scott Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1307 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:54 am Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, Almost all the squeal I have experienced has also been audible from the transport. All squeal is, in essence, scrape flutter in the sense that the tape is starting and stopping at a high rate of speed, hence the stick-slip description. The energy peak is visible on a spectrum analysis, but my fear is if you run the whole tape while you are away and look at the spectrum you may have done damage to the tape. Stick slip is essentially asperities (peaks) on the tape and head "locking" and then ripping free over and over again. The mechanical dynamics of that system make the spectrum varied and not always predictable as to where it will occur. It tends not to be speed related in my limited analysis of that but rather must be related to some distances on the transport because the primary frequencies do not double/halve with change of speed. What drove me to the Racal was the promise of wider bandwidth for reproduction at 4x speed. I didn't want to run the A810 at 4x especially with the transformer output card. I did test an A810 later and found that it could get to 28 kHz at -10 at 7.5 rec/play so the A810 is not as bad a choice as I thought for 4x play -- that gives me 7+ kHz bandwidth, though the Racal gives me 10 kHz with 4x speed. Higher speed is a way of stopping the scrape flutter suggested by Jay McKnight (MRL). Eddie, Indeed, I want to know the tape types as well. But Hans originally said "professionally recorded" so I ruled out those horrid double-play and triple play tapes which, oddly, are doing better in recent transfers than some of the standard and long play tapes . Cheers, Richard At 10:24 AM 2007-11-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >I've experienced, on both 2" and 1/4" tape, the effect you >mentioned, without audible mechanical squeal from the transport. I >think this qualifies as a form of scrape flutter, but from defective >tape. How to analyze this en mass? Seems to me running a long >(entire length of tape) duration spectrum analysis might work. I >think with some experimentation the huge peak of energy present >might be easily seen. Richard ? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1308 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:44 pm Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Interesting Richard. I agree with you about the higher speed reducing this, and that there is possible tape damage from the playback without prior treatment. Still, the indicated limited budget he has might be the practical determining factor for his client. You and I discussed our collective experience with cold playback a good while back (from different directions of course) and I think you might have it right that it might allow him to do this at more reasonable cost in time and money. One thing I remember was once doing a transfer of 1" 8 track tape to 24 track 2" tape. While I did the transfer, there was no audible noise from the transport, but the tape sounded terrible with flutter levels off the scale. I tried 2 more times, each as bad as the one before. Other 1" tapes were fine. Finally, I mounted a different headstack on the 1" playback machine.... it was identical in every way I could see or measure to the headstack I had started with... and the flutter went away. Put the original headstack on, and it was back. Just for information's sake, the machine was a MCI JH-24 that we had several 1" 8 track headstacks and several 2" 16 track headstacks for. We did these kinds of transfers for people all the time, without any difficulties except for what we would now call SSS or related. The headstacks were 'stock', meaning they were MCI factory stacks, and the rollers were correct 1" ones for that transport. Replacing the roller guides had no effect, and the capstan motor remained in lock in all cases. Odd, huh ? I'd love to know what the dynamics of that might have been. Perhaps the head wear pattern, although there was little visible wear on either headstack. These days I'd likely bake and call it a day... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:55 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Screechin' tapes, a thought Hi, Scott, Almost all the squeal I have experienced has also been audible from the transport. All squeal is, in essence, scrape flutter in the sense that the tape is starting and stopping at a high rate of speed, hence the stick-slip description. The energy peak is visible on a spectrum analysis, but my fear is if you run the whole tape while you are away and look at the spectrum you may have done damage to the tape. Stick slip is essentially asperities (peaks) on the tape and head "locking" and then ripping free over and over again. The mechanical dynamics of that system make the spectrum varied and not always predictable as to where it will occur. It tends not to be speed related in my limited analysis of that but rather must be related to some distances on the transport because the primary frequencies do not double/halve with change of speed. What drove me to the Racal was the promise of wider bandwidth for reproduction at 4x speed. I didn't want to run the A810 at 4x especially with the transformer output card. I did test an A810 later and found that it could get to 28 kHz at -10 at 7.5 rec/play so the A810 is not as bad a choice as I thought for 4x play -- that gives me 7+ kHz bandwidth, though the Racal gives me 10 kHz with 4x speed. Higher speed is a way of stopping the scrape flutter suggested by Jay McKnight (MRL). Eddie, Indeed, I want to know the tape types as well. But Hans originally said "professionally recorded" so I ruled out those horrid double-play and triple play tapes which, oddly, are doing better in recent transfers than some of the standard and long play tapes . Cheers, Richard At 10:24 AM 2007-11-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >I've experienced, on both 2" and 1/4" tape, the effect you >mentioned, without audible mechanical squeal from the transport. I >think this qualifies as a form of scrape flutter, but from defective >tape. How to analyze this en mass? Seems to me running a long >(entire length of tape) duration spectrum analysis might work. I >think with some experimentation the huge peak of energy present >might be easily seen. Richard ? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1309 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:32 pm Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, I find this fascinating. Some points to ponder in regards to this effect. (1) Dr. Bradshaw thinks that the SSS residue is actually melted on to the heads, making it difficult to get off. (2) I believe from limited observation that squeal is caused by the interaction of the tape and debris left by the tape on the head, which is one way to explain its slow onset with a clean, cool head. (3) Given that, at some level, I suspect that the head that squealed was rougher at a microscopic level due either to actual polishing damage to the metal of the head or to accretion of material that a normal cleaning would not remove. It is scary looking at pits and barbs and whatever on some used heads. Happy pondering and Happy Thanksgiving! Cheers, RIchard At 12:44 PM 2007-11-22, Scott Phillips wrote: > >One thing I remember was once doing a transfer of 1" 8 track tape to 24 >track 2" tape. While I did the transfer, there was no audible noise from >the transport, but the tape sounded terrible with flutter levels off the >scale. I tried 2 more times, each as bad as the one before. Other 1" >tapes were fine. Finally, I mounted a different headstack on the 1" >playback machine.... it was identical in every way I could see or >measure to the headstack I had started with... and the flutter went >away. Put the original headstack on, and it was back. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1310 From: "bhelonious" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:33 pm Subject: Lack of Tape bhelonious Offline Send Email Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape and budgets allow - but when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it makes it sound better) Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended period (no tape loaded or running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go up and down, etc etc. Usually a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I was wondering if there is an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the audio path - thanks... Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1311 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:55 pm Subject: RE: Lack of Tape ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the right that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't stay in input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom of the transport motherboard. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bhelonious Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape and budgets allow - but when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it makes it sound better) Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended period (no tape loaded or running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go up and down, etc etc. Usually a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I was wondering if there is an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the audio path - thanks... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1312 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:16 pm Subject: RE: Lack of Tape ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...and if you don't like the transport button lights staying on then, unplug the lampdriver PCB, the one right above the Transport logic board. As for the connectors, I generally replace them with the gold plated molex connectors. That solves the problem permanently, in my experience. Cary and Steve Sadler have indicated they just remove the connector shells and bent the female contacts to increase the spring tension. In their experience that solves that problem. We are all ex-factory people, so go figure. We all beat that one to death on this list a year or so ago, with no clear winner. All any of us can say is what had worked long term for them. At the end of the day, they just were lousy connectors to have millivolt signals running around on them... ..And a happy turkey day to all of you that observe it !! Those of you that don't, well, you don't know the gluttony you are missing.. :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:56 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the right that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't stay in input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom of the transport motherboard. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bhelonious Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape and budgets allow - but when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it makes it sound better) Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended period (no tape loaded or running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go up and down, etc etc. Usually a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I was wondering if there is an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the audio path - thanks... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1313 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:33 am Subject: Re: Lack of Tape ladewd Offline Send Email I hope you had a good Thanksgiving as well. If I owned a JH, I would consider changing the molex to gold. My customers don't want to spend that much money and time to refurbish these machines. I wouldn't want to simply replace the female connectors with gold, I'd want to do the whole machine. Steve and my method is a way of extending the reliability of the machine for a few years before it has to be done again. That's why I prefer the APR to the JH. They are definitely more reliable machines. There's only the parts problem. I solve mine by not using my machine much anymore. Its more of a keep-sake for me. I run it every 3-6 months to make sure it still works. I've been meaning to install DIN heads on it but I haven't had the time. In between work and home life, I'm refurbishing a CAD Maxcon 2 mixer in my garage now. Its a very nice sounding mixer and I got it for free as long as I promised to give it a good home. Maybe, once I get it up and running I'll consider mixing to tape again. That's if ATR really starts making 1/4" tape. I only have 5 reels of good tape left. Maybe I should call JRF to ask what my 1/2" options are. I have the heads and mounting blocks, even an extra headstack, but I don't have the fast guides, connector standoffs, SFF block, and roller caps for it. I have a bunch of brand new 2" fast guides, Maybe John will barter with me. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > ...and if you don't like the transport button lights staying on then, > unplug the lampdriver PCB, the one right above the Transport logic > board. > > As for the connectors, I generally replace them with the gold plated > molex connectors. That solves the problem permanently, in my experience. > Cary and Steve Sadler have indicated they just remove the connector > shells and bent the female contacts to increase the spring tension. In > their experience that solves that problem. We are all ex-factory people, > so go figure. We all beat that one to death on this list a year or so > ago, with no clear winner. All any of us can say is what had worked long > term for them. At the end of the day, they just were lousy connectors to > have millivolt signals running around on them... > > ..And a happy turkey day to all of you that observe it !! Those of you > that don't, well, you don't know the gluttony you are missing.. :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Scott Phillips > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:56 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. > Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the right > that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I > don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't stay in > input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic > PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom of the > transport motherboard. > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On > Behalf Of bhelonious > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape and > budgets allow - but > when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it > makes it sound better) > Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended period > (no tape loaded or > running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go up and > down, etc etc. Usually > a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I was > wondering if there is > an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the audio > path - thanks... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1314 From: "Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:35 am Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought hansalbertsson Offline Send Email Thank you all for your responses. I shall ponder carefully all your suggestions. Cold Playing: I'll think a lot about that. Is it documented somewhere? Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1315 From: "bhelonious" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:41 am Subject: Re: Lack of Tape bhelonious Offline Send Email Thanks - I'll give it a shot,,,, --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > ...and if you don't like the transport button lights staying on then, > unplug the lampdriver PCB, the one right above the Transport logic > board. > > As for the connectors, I generally replace them with the gold plated > molex connectors. That solves the problem permanently, in my experience. > Cary and Steve Sadler have indicated they just remove the connector > shells and bent the female contacts to increase the spring tension. In > their experience that solves that problem. We are all ex-factory people, > so go figure. We all beat that one to death on this list a year or so > ago, with no clear winner. All any of us can say is what had worked long > term for them. At the end of the day, they just were lousy connectors to > have millivolt signals running around on them... > > ..And a happy turkey day to all of you that observe it !! Those of you > that don't, well, you don't know the gluttony you are missing.. :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Scott Phillips > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:56 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. > Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the right > that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I > don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't stay in > input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic > PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom of the > transport motherboard. > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On > Behalf Of bhelonious > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape and > budgets allow - but > when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it > makes it sound better) > Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended period > (no tape loaded or > running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go up and > down, etc etc. Usually > a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I was > wondering if there is > an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the audio > path - thanks... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1316 From: "westendrecording" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:17 pm Subject: Re: Lack of Tape westendrecor... Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I hope you had a good Thanksgiving as well. If I owned a JH, I would > consider changing the molex to gold. My customers don't want to > spend that much money and time to refurbish these machines. I > wouldn't want to simply replace the female connectors with gold, I'd > want to do the whole machine. Steve and my method is a way of > extending the reliability of the machine for a few years before it > has to be done again. > > That's why I prefer the APR to the JH. They are definitely more > reliable machines. There's only the parts problem. I solve mine by > not using my machine much anymore. Its more of a keep-sake for me. I > run it every 3-6 months to make sure it still works. > > I've been meaning to install DIN heads on it but I haven't had the > time. In between work and home life, I'm refurbishing a CAD Maxcon 2 > mixer in my garage now. Its a very nice sounding mixer and I got it > for free as long as I promised to give it a good home. Maybe, once I > get it up and running I'll consider mixing to tape again. That's if > ATR really starts making 1/4" tape. I only have 5 reels of good tape > left. Maybe I should call JRF to ask what my 1/2" options are. I > have the heads and mounting blocks, even an extra headstack, but I > don't have the fast guides, connector standoffs, SFF block, and > roller caps for it. I have a bunch of brand new 2" fast guides, > Maybe John will barter with me. > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > ...and if you don't like the transport button lights staying on > then, > > unplug the lampdriver PCB, the one right above the Transport logic > > board. > > > > As for the connectors, I generally replace them with the gold plated > > molex connectors. That solves the problem permanently, in my > experience. > > Cary and Steve Sadler have indicated they just remove the connector > > shells and bent the female contacts to increase the spring tension. > In > > their experience that solves that problem. We are all ex-factory > people, > > so go figure. We all beat that one to death on this list a year or > so > > ago, with no clear winner. All any of us can say is what had worked > long > > term for them. At the end of the day, they just were lousy > connectors to > > have millivolt signals running around on them... > > > > ..And a happy turkey day to all of you that observe it !! Those of > you > > that don't, well, you don't know the gluttony you are missing.. :>) > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Scott Phillips > > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:56 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > > > > > There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. > > Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the > right > > that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I > > don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't > stay in > > input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic > > PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom > of the > > transport motherboard. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of bhelonious > > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape > and > > budgets allow - but > > when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it > > makes it sound better) > > Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended > period > > (no tape loaded or > > running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go > up and > > down, etc etc. Usually > > a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I > was > > wondering if there is > > an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the > audio > > path - thanks... > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > I own several JH products. My molex method is to pop out the females and bend out for more tension, clean, both males and females with 99% alcohol and treat with Stabilant 22. That stuff is expensive but worth it, I believe. When I can, I check the male pin soldering with a jewelers loup to detect cracked connections. I pulled out the mother board on my JH24 and was shocked to see how many are cracked males there were. With my JH500 console this is the main cause of problems. Monitor Sub Board, VCA and Mic pre daughter boards.. As was said, tin molexs' were a bad choice, but probably a cost and availability consideration at the time. My 2 cents Happy Thanksgiving Mike Miller Westend Recording Kansas City Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1317 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:01 pm Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hans IMHO, baking is the easiest solution. You won't regret getting a food dehydrator; using it should save you the most time in the long run. > > Thank you all for your responses. > > I shall ponder carefully all your suggestions. > > Cold Playing: I'll think a lot about that. Is it documented somewhere? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1318 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:06 pm Subject: RE: Re: Lack of Tape ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree with you on the cracked male pin solder joints. Some were just plain cold soldered, some from contamination during assembly, and others because, with all those pins going between the Transport mother board and the various plug in PCB's, a good deal of force is needed to remove the boards. That said, many was the JH-500 console I chased intermittent noises around before discovering a microscopic crack in a molex solder joint. For whatever reasons, I tended to find them around the VCA's and in the monitor module circuits. I can't really say that they were a huge problem for me in the consoles, but they were the cause of some. There was a bad run of diodes and a bad run of capacitors that were more of a hassle to me, but it is always something. Your cleaning method is similar to what I do as well, where I clean rather than replace. If I replace, I apply no anticorrosion chemicals, as I find this can reduce the reliability of a quality new connector, where it is a practical choice for an old one not being replaced... Just an opinion, we all have got'em. I just hate 'fixing' the same problem twice for people if I can avoid it. On the JH 110 / 16 /24 series, I replace both male and female molex connectors, shells and all. People have used the damnest things to clean these connectors, and the shells always seemed full of junk I didn't want to chance on new pins. Hitting the ones down in the transport PSU motor drivers is also a good idea. The whole process is time consuming, expensive, and a pain. It also takes care of the cold solder / cracked pin solder joints. That said, the clients that were willing to have it done never, ever had any of those pesky intermittent JH transport problems again. Now, some of those lousy IC sockets, now that is a different story. All those LM741 IC's as well..... One client told me he had spent thousands over a period of years frustrated with his machine, when if he'd known it could just end all at once he'd have saved himself money and done the conversion years ago. It always seemed to me that the molex tension issues were aggravated because of the constant removal of the PCB's to clean the pins, once there was enough corrosion to kick off the reliability difficulties. After enough removal / reinsertion cycles the tin plating was scratched off, making the contact area even smaller, and expose more of the underlying base metal of the pin to corrosion. Coupled with the reduced pin tension, it was nothing but trouble. I was truly happy not to see these used in the APR. For that matter, by the time I worked for the factory I hated them so much that I'd have made sure that prototype environmental testing screwed them up to show what a bad idea they were. There are just some areas you HAVE to spend money in a professional product.. :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of westendrecording Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 11:18 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Lack of Tape --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "ladewd" wrote: > > I hope you had a good Thanksgiving as well. If I owned a JH, I would > consider changing the molex to gold. My customers don't want to > spend that much money and time to refurbish these machines. I > wouldn't want to simply replace the female connectors with gold, I'd > want to do the whole machine. Steve and my method is a way of > extending the reliability of the machine for a few years before it > has to be done again. > > That's why I prefer the APR to the JH. They are definitely more > reliable machines. There's only the parts problem. I solve mine by > not using my machine much anymore. Its more of a keep-sake for me. I > run it every 3-6 months to make sure it still works. > > I've been meaning to install DIN heads on it but I haven't had the > time. In between work and home life, I'm refurbishing a CAD Maxcon 2 > mixer in my garage now. Its a very nice sounding mixer and I got it > for free as long as I promised to give it a good home. Maybe, once I > get it up and running I'll consider mixing to tape again. That's if > ATR really starts making 1/4" tape. I only have 5 reels of good tape > left. Maybe I should call JRF to ask what my 1/2" options are. I > have the heads and mounting blocks, even an extra headstack, but I > don't have the fast guides, connector standoffs, SFF block, and > roller caps for it. I have a bunch of brand new 2" fast guides, > Maybe John will barter with me. > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > > > ...and if you don't like the transport button lights staying on > then, > > unplug the lampdriver PCB, the one right above the Transport logic > > board. > > > > As for the connectors, I generally replace them with the gold plated > > molex connectors. That solves the problem permanently, in my > experience. > > Cary and Steve Sadler have indicated they just remove the connector > > shells and bent the female contacts to increase the spring tension. > In > > their experience that solves that problem. We are all ex-factory > people, > > so go figure. We all beat that one to death on this list a year or > so > > ago, with no clear winner. All any of us can say is what had worked > long > > term for them. At the end of the day, they just were lousy > connectors to > > have millivolt signals running around on them... > > > > ..And a happy turkey day to all of you that observe it !! Those of > you > > that don't, well, you don't know the gluttony you are missing.. :>) > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf Of Scott Phillips > > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:56 PM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > > > > > There is a different power supply for the transport vs. the audio. > > Looking at the back of the machine, it is the power supply on the > right > > that runs the transport. It can be unplugged separately. However, I > > don't remember if that will work, since I think the audio won't > stay in > > input then. A better solution might be to unplug the transport logic > > PCB. If you lift the deck plate, it is the long PCB at the bottom > of the > > transport motherboard. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of bhelonious > > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:34 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Lack of Tape > > > > Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape > and > > budgets allow - but > > when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it > > makes it sound better) > > Occasionally when the machine is on but sitting for an extended > period > > (no tape loaded or > > running) the transport will start to move, or the shields will go > up and > > down, etc etc. Usually > > a good cleaning of the connectors and boards does the trick - but I > was > > wondering if there is > > an easy way to disconnect the transport since all I'm using is the > audio > > path - thanks... > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > I own several JH products. My molex method is to pop out the females and bend out for more tension, clean, both males and females with 99% alcohol and treat with Stabilant 22. That stuff is expensive but worth it, I believe. When I can, I check the male pin soldering with a jewelers loup to detect cracked connections. I pulled out the mother board on my JH24 and was shocked to see how many are cracked males there were. With my JH500 console this is the main cause of problems. Monitor Sub Board, VCA and Mic pre daughter boards.. As was said, tin molexs' were a bad choice, but probably a cost and availability consideration at the time. My 2 cents Happy Thanksgiving Mike Miller Westend Recording Kansas City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1319 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:07 pm Subject: RE: Screechin' tapes, a thought ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I agree with you Eddie... an ounce of prevention... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:01 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Screechin' tapes, a thought Hans IMHO, baking is the easiest solution. You won't regret getting a food dehydrator; using it should save you the most time in the long run. > > Thank you all for your responses. > > I shall ponder carefully all your suggestions. > > Cold Playing: I'll think a lot about that. Is it documented somewhere? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1320 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:35 AM 2007-11-23, Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet wrote: >Thank you all for your responses. > >I shall ponder carefully all your suggestions. > >Cold Playing: I'll think a lot about that. Is it documented somewhere? I sent you the PDF of my AES preprint separately. To the best of my knowledge, I am the developer of this technique and am publishing it as widely as possible to ensure that it is non-patentable. Basically put the tape machine in a frost-free fridge for low humidity and +4C. Putting it outside apparently also works at the right time of year in the right places. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1321 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:11 pm Subject: Re: Screechin' tapes, a thought richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:01 PM 2007-11-23, eddie ciletti wrote: >Hans > >IMHO, baking is the easiest solution. You won't regret getting a food >dehydrator; using it should save you the most time in the long run. Baking is correct for most tapes, especially the Ampex mastering tapes and certain 3M tapes. Cold play is definitely indicated for Sony PR-150 and 3M 175 which do not respond to baking. Some tapes (at least one reel of Shamrock 031 which is a variable tape--whatever Ampex had left over that didn't meet spec, as I understand it) do not respond to either, but required a different reproducer geometry and speed to be playable. I don't see baking and cold playback as interchangeable. Right tool for the right job and all that. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (16 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1322 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:21 pm Subject: Baking and cold play and ... richardlhess Offline Send Email Just to be completely clear, let me republish from my blog at http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/03/21/soft-binder-syndrome-and-sticky-shed-syn\ drome/ I think this is definitve as far as it goes. I wish there were more information. Baking a tape that does not respond to baking will perhaps make it worse. That is the tightrope we are walking. Other suspected SBS tapes are 3M's 2nd line, Melody (which they dropped once they had to put manufacturing location on it due to FTC regs--Ampex put Opelika Alabama on the later Shamrock). I don't know what to think about Pyral, but Marie O'Connell from New Zealand reports that it was bad but her wet playing process worked for it. Anyone wishing an AES preprint please send me an off-list email and I'll email it to you for research purposes. Soft Binder Syndrome and Sticky Shed Syndrome For several years, we have been discussing the differences between Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS) and Loss of Lubricant (LoL). It appears from my latest research (presented at the 2006 Audio Engineering Society's 121st Convention in San Francisco in October) that LoL does not really factor into the equation for most tapes and that an overarching failure mode is Soft Binder Syndrome, or SBS. Sticky Shed Syndrome appears to be a subset of SBS. The classic recommendation for tapes suffering from SSS is to bake them and, for now, the continued recommendation is to bake tapes for which baking works. These include: Agfa (pre-1990): PEM 468, PEM 469 Ampex/Quantegy (1970s-1980s): 406, 407, 456, 457 Note: Recent reports indicate that these problems may exist in tapes made in the 1990s and later, even under the Quantegy name. Audiotape/Capitol (early 1980s): Q15 Note: This tape may or may not respond to baking. Some tests will be conducted soon. Scotch/3M: 226, 227, 806, 807, 808, 809 If these are squealing and leaving significant deposits, they should be baked (at your own risk). The Ampex patent for baking tapes can be found here. Almost all SSS tapes are back-coated tapes and the interaction between the magnetic coating and the back coating may be part of the problem. Tapes which squeal (and generally leave less of a deposit and are generally not back coated) appear to be suffering from SBS. SBS appears to be a change in the glass transition temperature of the magnetic coating. The glass transition temperature (Tg) is the point where the plastic turns from smooth to rubbery. If the Tg falls below the temperature of the head (slightly above room temperature due to friction and player heat dissipation) then the tape is likely to squeal. Small deposits of magnetic coating on the head or other fixed surfaces will exacerbate the squealing. Lowering the temperature of the playback environment will permit successful playback of tapes suffering from SBS. We currently have a dedicated refrigerator with both a reel and cassette machine inside. Others have reported success in using an outside balcony during cool/dry weather. Baking a tape that generally exhibits SBS (and not SSS) may exacerbate the condition and it is not recommended to bake suspected SBS tapes. Tapes which appear to be suffering from SBS include: Scotch/3M: 175 and Melody 169 (a seconds brand of Scotch) Sony: PR-150 Pyral: (type numbers unknown for this French tape) We have seen cassette tapes also suffering from SBS. As an alternate, you might try Marie O'Connell's tried and true method shown here. In this case, it appears that the isopropyl alcohol is acting both as a lubricant and as a coolant, and may be also acting as a solvent to remove or inhibit deposits from the tape onto the fixed surfaces. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1323 From: Everett Moran Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:23 am Subject: Re: Lack of Tape moranpro Offline Send Email At 10:33 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >Hi - I own an MCI JH 24 which I still use for recording when tape >and budgets allow - but >when they don't I use it as a front end for my DAW (i'm convinced it >makes it sound better) Probably does. You might also consider doing the same thing, saturating tape, thereby getting the benefit (if you believe it's a benefit) of tape compression, increasing the utility of your 2" machine as a signal processor. Easy to do with basic tracks of course, as the Rec-PB head delay is not an issue. I have done this overdubbing as well, sending the signal to both the analog machine and the DAW, making it a breeze to line up the delayed analog waveform with the digital version. You should be able to reuse the 2" tape in this way for many, many passes. For those on this list [and I presume there are many] who are still recording to tape, let me add my strong endorsement for ATR Magnetics' new tape. Although it has come on the market too late for tracking of our current project, we are mixing to the 1/2" product with stellar results. Hands down the closest facsimile to what's coming off the 2" we have heard. Everett Moran (303) 813-8410 (720) 231-2423 cell (801) 218-5742 eFax Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1324 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:48 am Subject: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many problems and although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is still one fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with this one. The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, being both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting a lot of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect the CRC to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the error lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Cheers for now! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1325 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:45 am Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle eddieaudio Offline Send Email Stuart I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track and very vulnerable. eddie > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > problems and > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is still one > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with this > one. > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > being > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > a lot > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect the CRC > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > error > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > anyone > have any ideas on this? > > Cheers for now! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1326 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:39 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in play mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting for these machines? From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Stuart I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track and very vulnerable. eddie > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > problems and > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is still one > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with this > one. > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > being > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > a lot > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect the CRC > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > error > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > anyone > have any ideas on this? > > Cheers for now! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1327 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:31 pm Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle eddieaudio Offline Send Email Stuart I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) . > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > play > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > for these machines? > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > Stuart > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > and very vulnerable. > > eddie > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > problems and > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > still one > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > this > > one. > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > being > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > a lot > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > the CRC > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > error > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > anyone > > have any ideas on this? > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1328 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:27 am Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a half to track the fault. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Stuart I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) . > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > play > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > for these machines? > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > Stuart > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > and very vulnerable. > > eddie > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > problems and > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > still one > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > this > > one. > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > being > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > a lot > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > the CRC > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > error > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > anyone > > have any ideas on this? > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1329 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:09 pm Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ladewd Offline Send Email I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I routinely service. Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a > half to track the fault. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > . > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > > play > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > > for these machines? > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > > and very vulnerable. > > > > eddie > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > problems and > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > > still one > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > > this > > > one. > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > > being > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > > a lot > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > > the CRC > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > > error > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > > anyone > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1330 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:18 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I routinely service. Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a > half to track the fault. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > . > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > > play > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > > for these machines? > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > > and very vulnerable. > > > > eddie > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > problems and > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > > still one > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > > this > > > one. > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > > being > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > > a lot > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > > the CRC > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > > error > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > > anyone > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1331 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:25 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if it is a fault, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in the diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, the replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC errors grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape through a bulk eraser would this help the tape? Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none of the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, any ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not that's something else I could fix. Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I want to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) Cheers for all your help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I routinely service. Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a > half to track the fault. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > . > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > > play > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > > for these machines? > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > > and very vulnerable. > > > > eddie > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > problems and > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > > still one > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > > this > > > one. > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > > being > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > > a lot > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > > the CRC > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > > error > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > > anyone > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1332 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:11 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if it is a fault, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in the diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, the replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC errors grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape through a bulk eraser would this help the tape? Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none of the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, any ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not that's something else I could fix. Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I want to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) Cheers for all your help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I routinely service. Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a > half to track the fault. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > . > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > > play > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > > for these machines? > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > > and very vulnerable. > > > > eddie > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > problems and > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > > still one > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > > this > > > one. > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > > being > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > > a lot > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > > the CRC > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > > error > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > > anyone > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1333 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:10 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email I have a bulk erasure but its stored in a garage, it will not take 12" reels though, I decided to put an Ampex tape though the Studer A810, it's not a bulk erasure and because it's not full track erase it will not do the job properly anyway. I recorded 5 minutes of silence on the tape then I tried it back on the Sony. The Studer didn't erase the digital completely, it actually look several generations to get rid of the digital completely (Just goes to show like in a hard drive, data is hard to get rid of) but when I recorded on the tape, the CRC was no were near as high as it was, after 5 minutes of the tape had been played and the original recording came though, the machine had great difficulty locking onto the digital, it also had a huge amount of CRC errors. So bulk erasing will help bring back the tapes performance, thanks for that info, wish I knew where my eraser was now. This complete saturation, I would like to know more about that, I have seen in the manual I need a lot of gear to do a head realignment, a bolt on head, test tape and another card, I have none of that so I would be incredibly reluctant to alter the heads, by eye they look spot on but by the Venire there is a difference in distance between the rec and replay heads outer casing from top to bottom by a few hundred's of a millimeter, nit the best way of checking though. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 November 2007 20:12 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if it is a fault, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in the diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, the replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC errors grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape through a bulk eraser would this help the tape? Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none of the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, any ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not that's something else I could fix. Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I want to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) Cheers for all your help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I routinely service. Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and will wire > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a cassette > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the biggest > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one for a > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which will fit > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of millimeters off the > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so much easier. > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching between > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint and would > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to solder a > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an hour and a > half to track the fault. > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of eddie ciletti > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I wouldn't > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the tape is > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it will > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > . > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a problem with > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so there must be > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the problem or > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot of hiss > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. The tape is > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the machine in > > play > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the digital > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are placed back on > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a Bias setting > > for these machines? > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > Stuart > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks point to > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with high > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very skinny track > > and very vulnerable. > > > > eddie > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > problems and > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there is > > still one > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone help with > > this > > > one. > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and crackle, > > > being > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the Bias but the > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is getting > > > a lot > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to expect > > the CRC > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never see the > > > error > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for improvement. Does > > > anyone > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1334 From: "Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet" Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:30 am Subject: Re: Baking and cold play and ... hansalbertsson Offline Send Email Richard, This cold playing technique of yours is intriguing! I have read your pdf from the 2006 AES presentation, and I have some questions: You say "cold & dry". How cold has an answer: 4 degrees centigrade seems a good target. That is Also an eminently achievable target. How dry has less obvious an answer: Just no dew formation? 40% RH? < 60%RH? Please elaborate a bit on that. What about (slow) blowing cold and dry air into the head area of a standard tape machine, first trying to shield off the heads from the machine interior? Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > > Lowering the temperature of the playback environment will permit > successful playback of tapes suffering from SBS. We currently have a > dedicated refrigerator with both a reel and cassette machine inside. > Others have reported success in using an outside balcony during > cool/dry weather. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1335 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:59 am Subject: Re: Baking and cold play and ... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Hans, We did not run humidity tests as we were targeting a specific parameter, the glass transition temperature. The frost-free fridges commonly available in North America run under -- typically well under -- 40%RH. Cold air drenching the tape and head area AFTER the tape has been made cold for an hour or more could work. My concern with this is that normal room air (20 C 40-50% RH) will condense at +4C. But, I also ran into problems with one capstan motor in the A810 in the fridge freezing up. I put a different capstan motor in it but have not returned it to the fridge. Taking the machines out will give condensation. The APR is just big enough to make putting it in the fridge more difficult. Cheers, Richard At 04:30 AM 2007-11-26, Hans J. Albertsson - Brf Bränneriet wrote: >Richard, > >This cold playing technique of yours is intriguing! > >I have read your pdf from the 2006 AES presentation, and I have some >questions: > >You say "cold & dry". >How cold has an answer: 4 degrees centigrade seems a good target. That >is Also an eminently achievable target. >How dry has less obvious an answer: Just no dew formation? 40% RH? < >60%RH? Please elaborate a bit on that. > >What about (slow) blowing cold and dry air into the head area of a >standard tape machine, first trying to shield off the heads from the >machine interior? > > > > >Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > > > > > > Lowering the temperature of the playback environment will permit > > successful playback of tapes suffering from SBS. We currently have a > > dedicated refrigerator with both a reel and cassette machine inside. > > Others have reported success in using an outside balcony during > > cool/dry weather. > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1336 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:27 am Subject: Re: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle eddieaudio Offline Send Email Stuart saturation recording on THAT type of tape will be, just as you noted, impossible to erase with a conventional tape machine or bulk eraser because it is most likely metal particle tape. (Fully erasing data on a hard drive is "slightly different" because of the ways data is erased. Yes, on a most basic level, in order to erase data on a hard drive it must be written over with either ones or zeros - a pass of each to start. Also, simply "erasing" the data in many cases merely marks the data as being erasable.) But the good news is that you probably don't have to do a mechanical alignment, but I'd bet there is not enough record current across the board (analog and digital). Are you sure your power supplies are fully up and clean? As someone else mentioned (as I know nothing about these machines) going through the alignment procedure would probably be the ticket and I believe you are in need of an extender board, which would be useful. good luck. eddie > I have a bulk erasure but its stored in a garage, it will not take 12" > reels > though, I decided to put an Ampex tape though the Studer A810, it's not a > bulk erasure and because it's not full track erase it will not do the job > properly anyway. I recorded 5 minutes of silence on the tape then I > tried it > back on the Sony. The Studer didn't erase the digital completely, it > actually look several generations to get rid of the digital completely > (Just > goes to show like in a hard drive, data is hard to get rid of) but when I > recorded on the tape, the CRC was no were near as high as it was, after 5 > minutes of the tape had been played and the original recording came > though, > the machine had great difficulty locking onto the digital, it also had a > huge amount of CRC errors. > > So bulk erasing will help bring back the tapes performance, thanks for > that > info, wish I knew where my eraser was now. > > This complete saturation, I would like to know more about that, I have > seen > in the manual I need a lot of gear to do a head realignment, a bolt on > head, > test tape and another card, I have none of that so I would be incredibly > reluctant to alter the heads, by eye they look spot on but by the Venire > there is a difference in distance between the rec and replay heads outer > casing from top to bottom by a few hundred's of a millimeter, nit the best > way of checking though. > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 20:12 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by > overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, > very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors > is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what > it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need > for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation > recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if > it > is a fault, > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in > the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, > the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC > errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape > through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none > of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, > any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not > that's > something else I could fix. > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I > want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > Cheers for all your help! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1337 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:24 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers, I hope to make an extender board from a Sony BVH-2000 machine, I have the extender for that tend the boards are almost identical. I have had the PSU out and it was playing up a bit, in fact I do now remember I need to take it to bits to replace 2 thermal fuses which I have just bridged, the PSU has some voltage adjustments on the top which I need to make sure they are correct when the machine is under load, all though the electronics of this machine seems to be more and more regulators, for instance, the digital erase will not work at all unless the voltage is spot on 5V, a safety circuit cuts off the record function if it's not correct. I will look into this. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 26 November 2007 15:27 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Stuart saturation recording on THAT type of tape will be, just as you noted, impossible to erase with a conventional tape machine or bulk eraser because it is most likely metal particle tape. (Fully erasing data on a hard drive is "slightly different" because of the ways data is erased. Yes, on a most basic level, in order to erase data on a hard drive it must be written over with either ones or zeros - a pass of each to start. Also, simply "erasing" the data in many cases merely marks the data as being erasable.) But the good news is that you probably don't have to do a mechanical alignment, but I'd bet there is not enough record current across the board (analog and digital). Are you sure your power supplies are fully up and clean? As someone else mentioned (as I know nothing about these machines) going through the alignment procedure would probably be the ticket and I believe you are in need of an extender board, which would be useful. good luck. eddie > I have a bulk erasure but its stored in a garage, it will not take 12" > reels > though, I decided to put an Ampex tape though the Studer A810, it's not a > bulk erasure and because it's not full track erase it will not do the job > properly anyway. I recorded 5 minutes of silence on the tape then I > tried it > back on the Sony. The Studer didn't erase the digital completely, it > actually look several generations to get rid of the digital completely > (Just > goes to show like in a hard drive, data is hard to get rid of) but when I > recorded on the tape, the CRC was no were near as high as it was, after 5 > minutes of the tape had been played and the original recording came > though, > the machine had great difficulty locking onto the digital, it also had a > huge amount of CRC errors. > > So bulk erasing will help bring back the tapes performance, thanks for > that > info, wish I knew where my eraser was now. > > This complete saturation, I would like to know more about that, I have > seen > in the manual I need a lot of gear to do a head realignment, a bolt on > head, > test tape and another card, I have none of that so I would be incredibly > reluctant to alter the heads, by eye they look spot on but by the Venire > there is a difference in distance between the rec and replay heads outer > casing from top to bottom by a few hundred's of a millimeter, nit the best > way of checking though. > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 20:12 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by > overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, > very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors > is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what > it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need > for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation > recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if > it > is a fault, > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in > the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, > the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC > errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape > through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none > of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, > any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not > that's > something else I could fix. > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I > want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > Cheers for all your help! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1338 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:51 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I recall that a complete alignment of these machines took a boat load of gear and test jigs to do properly, at least in the factory setting they did. I truly wouldn't mess with the mechanical alignments of the heads, but the record currents would bear looking into. The failsafe on digital erase is obvious if you look at what one of those headstacks cost to replace, let alone install. I wish I could offer more, but my department's roll with the PCM machines was in prototype QA of the design and the QC function in production. If it didn't meet specs it was sent back to either production to be reworked or engineering to be redesigned. As a result, our department (QA/QC) didn't adjust these particular machines. As a department we didn't have all the required jigs to do the work anyway, and it wasn't our job to fix things in general, just reject and report. It doesn't take much of a report on a digital machine to say "error rate too high" or "tape interchange poor", "audio out of spec", or "burning smell from recorder".... :>) The APR's, now that was a different story, as we were expected to provide a detailed report on the difficulties, and that meant we were deeply familiar with the APR units and MXP consoles. I came to Sony at the very, very end of JH500/600/800 console production, or I'd have had a field day holding up those units, and it wouldn't have been just for the color of the paint jobs... QA also sometimes had to go to customer sites to examine a customer complaint, or sometimes to just smooth a ruffled feather or two (or three). We weren't field service by any means, but that said I covered quite a few places in the world where people had one issue or another with these things. I had field service experience with everything but the PCM units before I came to Sony, so it was sometimes just as easy for me to take care of things for the customer on the spot as drag in a Sony field engineer to solve them. Often it was just a case of educating the customer, or correct some misinformation a sales 'engineer' had give a customer. Why it is a requirement for sales people to say a piece of gear does something it can't ever do is a mystery to me, particularly since they never inquire with the factory people who could tell them that..... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Cheers, I hope to make an extender board from a Sony BVH-2000 machine, I have the extender for that tend the boards are almost identical. I have had the PSU out and it was playing up a bit, in fact I do now remember I need to take it to bits to replace 2 thermal fuses which I have just bridged, the PSU has some voltage adjustments on the top which I need to make sure they are correct when the machine is under load, all though the electronics of this machine seems to be more and more regulators, for instance, the digital erase will not work at all unless the voltage is spot on 5V, a safety circuit cuts off the record function if it's not correct. I will look into this. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 26 November 2007 15:27 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Stuart saturation recording on THAT type of tape will be, just as you noted, impossible to erase with a conventional tape machine or bulk eraser because it is most likely metal particle tape. (Fully erasing data on a hard drive is "slightly different" because of the ways data is erased. Yes, on a most basic level, in order to erase data on a hard drive it must be written over with either ones or zeros - a pass of each to start. Also, simply "erasing" the data in many cases merely marks the data as being erasable.) But the good news is that you probably don't have to do a mechanical alignment, but I'd bet there is not enough record current across the board (analog and digital). Are you sure your power supplies are fully up and clean? As someone else mentioned (as I know nothing about these machines) going through the alignment procedure would probably be the ticket and I believe you are in need of an extender board, which would be useful. good luck. eddie > I have a bulk erasure but its stored in a garage, it will not take 12" > reels > though, I decided to put an Ampex tape though the Studer A810, it's not a > bulk erasure and because it's not full track erase it will not do the job > properly anyway. I recorded 5 minutes of silence on the tape then I > tried it > back on the Sony. The Studer didn't erase the digital completely, it > actually look several generations to get rid of the digital completely > (Just > goes to show like in a hard drive, data is hard to get rid of) but when I > recorded on the tape, the CRC was no were near as high as it was, after 5 > minutes of the tape had been played and the original recording came > though, > the machine had great difficulty locking onto the digital, it also had a > huge amount of CRC errors. > > So bulk erasing will help bring back the tapes performance, thanks for > that > info, wish I knew where my eraser was now. > > This complete saturation, I would like to know more about that, I have > seen > in the manual I need a lot of gear to do a head realignment, a bolt on > head, > test tape and another card, I have none of that so I would be incredibly > reluctant to alter the heads, by eye they look spot on but by the Venire > there is a difference in distance between the rec and replay heads outer > casing from top to bottom by a few hundred's of a millimeter, nit the best > way of checking though. > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 20:12 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by > overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, > very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors > is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what > it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need > for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation > recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if > it > is a fault, > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > >> > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in > the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, > the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC > errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape > through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none > of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, > any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not > that's > something else I could fix. > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I > want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > Cheers for all your help! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1339 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:35 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle richardlhess Offline Send Email OK, I have to say this about this thread... While I consider an interesting science project to attempt to get a PCM-3402 working for recording and playback, I think it is a big mistake to use it for recording other than to demonstrate that it works. I think the only real use of a PCM-3402 (or 3202) is rescuing sounds entrusted to that format that haven't yet been rescued. I have done my share of odd science projects (like recording onto 60-year-old Magnetophonband Typ L with a Sony APR-5000), but in general I think they should remain in the demonstration domain and not be used for new creations. There is so much unobtanium about all of the now-dead digital formats that the machines we have should (IMHO) be saved for reproducing tapes stuck in that format. Apologies for venting, but this is something I feel strongly about. And if you've read this far, may I respectfully ask everyone to please trim their quotes when replying. Thanks! Cheers, Richard At 09:51 PM 2007-11-26, Scott Phillips wrote: >I recall that a complete alignment of these machines took a boat load of >gear and test jigs to do properly, at least in the factory setting they >did. I truly wouldn't mess with the mechanical alignments of the heads, >but the record currents would bear looking into. The failsafe on digital >erase is obvious if you look at what one of those headstacks cost to >replace, let alone install. > >I wish I could offer more, but my department's roll with the PCM >machines was in prototype QA of the design and the QC function in >production. If it didn't meet specs it was sent back to either >production to be reworked or engineering to be redesigned. As a result, >our department (QA/QC) didn't adjust these particular machines. As a >department we didn't have all the required jigs to do the work anyway, >and it wasn't our job to fix things in general, just reject and report. >It doesn't take much of a report on a digital machine to say "error rate >too high" or "tape interchange poor", "audio out of spec", or "burning >smell from recorder".... :>) Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1340 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:59 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Well that's what it really is, I am not a pro time user, it's been a great project getting it running and that's my hobby, I have a 1939 Tonschreiber S.b1 reel to reel with a fantastic response of 50Hz - 3KHz @120 cm/sec, trying to get that replaying and recording, but not for serious use, in the end the computer is too easy to use for music and editing, but everyone has to have a hobby. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: 27 November 2007 03:35 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle OK, I have to say this about this thread... While I consider an interesting science project to attempt to get a PCM-3402 working for recording and playback, I think it is a big mistake to use it for recording other than to demonstrate that it works. I think the only real use of a PCM-3402 (or 3202) is rescuing sounds entrusted to that format that haven't yet been rescued. I have done my share of odd science projects (like recording onto 60-year-old Magnetophonband Typ L with a Sony APR-5000), but in general I think they should remain in the demonstration domain and not be used for new creations. There is so much unobtanium about all of the now-dead digital formats that the machines we have should (IMHO) be saved for reproducing tapes stuck in that format. Apologies for venting, but this is something I feel strongly about. And if you've read this far, may I respectfully ask everyone to please trim their quotes when replying. Thanks! Cheers, Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1341 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:41 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Lol Burning smell from the recorder! This machine until recently has always made a sulfur smell from the bursting capacitors, I have had probably4 IC's go up in smoke and a couple of transistors, hoping that's the end of that! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: 27 November 2007 02:51 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle I recall that a complete alignment of these machines took a boat load of gear and test jigs to do properly, at least in the factory setting they did. I truly wouldn't mess with the mechanical alignments of the heads, but the record currents would bear looking into. The failsafe on digital erase is obvious if you look at what one of those headstacks cost to replace, let alone install. I wish I could offer more, but my department's roll with the PCM machines was in prototype QA of the design and the QC function in production. If it didn't meet specs it was sent back to either production to be reworked or engineering to be redesigned. As a result, our department (QA/QC) didn't adjust these particular machines. As a department we didn't have all the required jigs to do the work anyway, and it wasn't our job to fix things in general, just reject and report. It doesn't take much of a report on a digital machine to say "error rate too high" or "tape interchange poor", "audio out of spec", or "burning smell from recorder".... :>) The APR's, now that was a different story, as we were expected to provide a detailed report on the difficulties, and that meant we were deeply familiar with the APR units and MXP consoles. I came to Sony at the very, very end of JH500/600/800 console production, or I'd have had a field day holding up those units, and it wouldn't have been just for the color of the paint jobs... QA also sometimes had to go to customer sites to examine a customer complaint, or sometimes to just smooth a ruffled feather or two (or three). We weren't field service by any means, but that said I covered quite a few places in the world where people had one issue or another with these things. I had field service experience with everything but the PCM units before I came to Sony, so it was sometimes just as easy for me to take care of things for the customer on the spot as drag in a Sony field engineer to solve them. Often it was just a case of educating the customer, or correct some misinformation a sales 'engineer' had give a customer. Why it is a requirement for sales people to say a piece of gear does something it can't ever do is a mystery to me, particularly since they never inquire with the factory people who could tell them that..... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:25 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Cheers, I hope to make an extender board from a Sony BVH-2000 machine, I have the extender for that tend the boards are almost identical. I have had the PSU out and it was playing up a bit, in fact I do now remember I need to take it to bits to replace 2 thermal fuses which I have just bridged, the PSU has some voltage adjustments on the top which I need to make sure they are correct when the machine is under load, all though the electronics of this machine seems to be more and more regulators, for instance, the digital erase will not work at all unless the voltage is spot on 5V, a safety circuit cuts off the record function if it's not correct. I will look into this. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 26 November 2007 15:27 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Stuart saturation recording on THAT type of tape will be, just as you noted, impossible to erase with a conventional tape machine or bulk eraser because it is most likely metal particle tape. (Fully erasing data on a hard drive is "slightly different" because of the ways data is erased. Yes, on a most basic level, in order to erase data on a hard drive it must be written over with either ones or zeros - a pass of each to start. Also, simply "erasing" the data in many cases merely marks the data as being erasable.) But the good news is that you probably don't have to do a mechanical alignment, but I'd bet there is not enough record current across the board (analog and digital). Are you sure your power supplies are fully up and clean? As someone else mentioned (as I know nothing about these machines) going through the alignment procedure would probably be the ticket and I believe you are in need of an extender board, which would be useful. good luck. eddie > I have a bulk erasure but its stored in a garage, it will not take 12" > reels > though, I decided to put an Ampex tape though the Studer A810, it's not a > bulk erasure and because it's not full track erase it will not do the job > properly anyway. I recorded 5 minutes of silence on the tape then I > tried it > back on the Sony. The Studer didn't erase the digital completely, it > actually look several generations to get rid of the digital completely > (Just > goes to show like in a hard drive, data is hard to get rid of) but when I > recorded on the tape, the CRC was no were near as high as it was, after 5 > minutes of the tape had been played and the original recording came > though, > the machine had great difficulty locking onto the digital, it also had a > huge amount of CRC errors. > > So bulk erasing will help bring back the tapes performance, thanks for > that > info, wish I knew where my eraser was now. > > This complete saturation, I would like to know more about that, I have > seen > in the manual I need a lot of gear to do a head realignment, a bolt on > head, > test tape and another card, I have none of that so I would be incredibly > reluctant to alter the heads, by eye they look spot on but by the Venire > there is a difference in distance between the rec and replay heads outer > casing from top to bottom by a few hundred's of a millimeter, nit the best > way of checking though. > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 20:12 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by > overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, > very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors > is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what > it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need > for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation > recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if > it > is a fault, > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > >> > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in > the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, > the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC > errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape > through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none > of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, > any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not > that's > something else I could fix. > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I > want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > Cheers for all your help! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1342 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:40 pm Subject: A nice-looking APR starting for not much on ePay... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, folks, Try not to bid against each other -- I'm sure there will be more. eBay item 200178295725 This looks like it would be a reasonable machine for those of you on the list looking for an APR-5000, but, of course, I haven't seen it, either, but the price is what I've paid for several. Enjoy! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1343 From: "ladewd" Date: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:38 pm Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ladewd Offline Send Email The saturation recording is correct. Rec current has to be tightly controlled. On a 48 track you have to set it .1dB under peak reading. The head heights do not need microscope evaluation (even though they issued a portable microscope to us for changing heads in the field). We've been aligning them electrically out here on the West Coast for at least 10 years. We never had an interchange problem. We have a reference tape that we compile on a large variety of machines and we make sure overwrite works from machine to machine. If I remember correctly the 3102 and 3202 had erase heads for time code and something else (maybe the audio tracks?). The 48 uses the digital heads for TC, CTL and the audio tracks and does not have an erase head for any of the tracks. The 3102 and 3202 used a really bad analog channel to record the cue tracks, but the 48 used PWM to record the signal. In fact there is a switch on the 48 to allow regular audio playback so that it was compatible with the PCM3324. The inclusion of an erase head was continued to the later models PCM3324S and the PCM3348HR (but not the 16bit PCM3348). Sony realized they created a problem with not being able to erase the TC tracks once they were recorded on an original PCM3324. I haven't looked at a 3402 in more than 10 years, and that's all I did was look at it. I can't remember if it had the features of the 48 track, but my guess is its totally identical to the 3202, only in a prettier package. It even hesitated in the video before it got its radius like an APR or PCM3202. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > The machines used saturation recording as I recall, so erase was by > overwrite. The heads ARE very fragile. Bulk erasing the tape is a very, > very good idea. If I remember rightly, the steep increase of CRC errors > is possibly an indicator that the digital record alignment is not what > it ought to be.... something is rattling around my brain about the need > for precise digital alignment was required to have complete saturation > recording and tape interchange between DASH machines. Cary ? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:25 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if > it > is a fault, > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in > the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, > the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC > errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape > through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none > of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, > any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not > that's > something else I could fix. > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I > want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > Cheers for all your help! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] > On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1344 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:29 am Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle ladewd Offline Send Email Hello Stuart, I know this sounds crazy, but just about every DASH machine I've looked at has audio performance like that on the cue tracks. The caveat is I never align those tracks anyway, no one uses them, and when they do, its only for reference to get edit points. I even seem to remember hearing noise close to that amplitude when we made those things at the factory. Coming from an analog background I really questioned the performance of the analog tracks, but was simply told it didn't matter. I would venture to guess, from watching you move the tape manually, it is working good enough to do razor blade editing. Don't expect much better performance from those tracks. They were simply not made to record any serious type of audio. My recollection is they are significantly worse than the worst cassette deck I've ever heard (except the flutter is better). You may spend a good amount of time changing caps and trying to tweak those tracks for better performance, but my experience tells me its not worth it. They'll never sound good enough to use for anything other than a click track, and then you'd have to gate the hell out of it to make the noise less distracting to the performer. In addition, There were very specialized jigs, fixtures and test gear to align the audio cards. Even when we did comlete overhauls on the multitracks, we never looked at those channels. We and our customers considered them useless. We did however adjust rec currents on the tracks since the 48 track was lacking an erase head. It didn't help much if the tracks previously had anything recorded on them from a machine that used bias recording. Without a proper erase head, the 48 track could not erase the previous signal. On an sort-of-related note, does your machine have a black erase head on the headstack? I would be curious to see whether or not they used an erase head for the analog tracks on that unit. The 48 track (roughly the same vintage) does not have an erase head and did not use bias recording for those tracks. I was told the machine was electrically identical to the PCM3202, so I'm assuming it has the erase head. Am I correct? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if it > is a fault, > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not that's > something else I could fix. > > > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > > > > > Cheers for all your help! > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1345 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:01 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Thank you for that, from this email I think I can consider this project finished! In answer to your question, the machine does have a black erase head for the Analogue only tracks, the heads looking from the left to right are; Record Digital, Replay Digital, Erase Analogue stuck on rec/Replay analog then a Sync record digital head. I have a few reels of new unused Digital tape which performs very well, so I think without spending more that the machines worth (which I have already) I will not get any better results out of this recorder. Thank you for everyone's input on this machine, it was all greatly appreciated. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: 29 November 2007 05:30 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle Hello Stuart, I know this sounds crazy, but just about every DASH machine I've looked at has audio performance like that on the cue tracks. The caveat is I never align those tracks anyway, no one uses them, and when they do, its only for reference to get edit points. I even seem to remember hearing noise close to that amplitude when we made those things at the factory. Coming from an analog background I really questioned the performance of the analog tracks, but was simply told it didn't matter. I would venture to guess, from watching you move the tape manually, it is working good enough to do razor blade editing. Don't expect much better performance from those tracks. They were simply not made to record any serious type of audio. My recollection is they are significantly worse than the worst cassette deck I've ever heard (except the flutter is better). You may spend a good amount of time changing caps and trying to tweak those tracks for better performance, but my experience tells me its not worth it. They'll never sound good enough to use for anything other than a click track, and then you'd have to gate the hell out of it to make the noise less distracting to the performer. In addition, There were very specialized jigs, fixtures and test gear to align the audio cards. Even when we did comlete overhauls on the multitracks, we never looked at those channels. We and our customers considered them useless. We did however adjust rec currents on the tracks since the 48 track was lacking an erase head. It didn't help much if the tracks previously had anything recorded on them from a machine that used bias recording. Without a proper erase head, the 48 track could not erase the previous signal. On an sort-of-related note, does your machine have a black erase head on the headstack? I would be curious to see whether or not they used an erase head for the analog tracks on that unit. The 48 track (roughly the same vintage) does not have an erase head and did not use bias recording for those tracks. I was told the machine was electrically identical to the PCM3202, so I'm assuming it has the erase head. Am I correct? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > What I have done is I have uploaded a video to Youtube of the fault, if it > is a fault, > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hb2wD9byHo > > > > Also, do these machines have a digital erase head? I cannot see one in the > diagrams, the recorder appears to have 2 record heads and one replay, the > replay head looks very fragile, I have noticed that brand new tape shows > very low CRC errors, once the tape has been used a few times the CRC errors > grow and grow, does the machine just write the new digital over the old > without blanking it out? If this is so, if I was to pass the tape through a > bulk eraser would this help the tape? > > > > Also another odd thing, the CH2 assemble light comes on by itself, none of > the other lights do it, I can turn it off but it comes back on again, any > ideas on that, as in are the lights suppose to self eliminate? If not that's > something else I could fix. > > > > Also just to finish off, the Analogue tracks are not really something I want > to use but if there is a fault, I would like to fix it :-) > > > > > > Cheers for all your help! > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of Scott Phillips > Sent: 25 November 2007 18:19 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > I have a similar 'factory' memory of this as Cary has. It was strictly > for razor editing position. Some people put 'backup' time code on one of > them, but that was a particularly useless exercise as well. They were > just too lousy for that. I might be wrong (Cary, correct me) , but I > think you were lucky to get out to 10k on those tracks. There were noisy > to the extreme as well, but I actually don't remember the noise floor > having a lot of pops or crackling, just broadband noise and hiss.... > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:10 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > I've been servicing DASH 48 and 24 tracks for years. No one uses > the analog tracks. I've never had the pleasure of aligning them > either. I understand on the 2 track it is important for editing. I > can't remember anything about the analog audio alignment from my > factory days. I do know de-maging anything on that machine was not > recommended. The specs on those channels were terrible and were not > closely scrutinized at the factory. They were there strictly for > referencing the tape position for razor blade editing (which had its > own set of problems). I only built a few PCM-3102's in my factory > days. I went back to the analog stuff. I didn't re-visit DASH > machines until I moved to Los Angeles years later. The 2 tracks > were not popular, but I was swamped with 48 tracks out here for > quite some time. These days, there is only one DASH 48 machine I > routinely service. > > Don't expect these tracks to perform well, they were not designed > for anything but the reason stated above. If you have a manual, I > would suggest going through the alignment procedures. It could be > there is something broken on the card, but you're in pretty un- > charted territory there. The same analog princples apply in the > alignment as any other recorder, but I do remember the way they're > implemented makes it clumsy and unintuitive to align. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , > "Stuart Blacklock" > wrote: > > > > Brill, I will give that a go, l I have a signal generator here and > will wire > > it up to a scope and check, the machine's noise is way over a > cassette > > deck, even a cheap one, its defiantly an electronic fault, the > biggest > > drawback I have is that I do not have an extender card, I have one > for a > > Sony BVH-2000 but the card is a little wider than the one which > will fit > > this machine, I do believe though if I file a couple of > millimeters off the > > edges of this board it will fit, then that would make things so > much easier. > > > > > > > > One of the faults I had was is the quad op amp, it was switching > between > > Analogue (AUX) and digital randomly, turned out to be a dry joint > and would > > have been found in minuets with an extender card, instead I had to > solder a > > test wire onto each point to check the circuit thought, taking an > hour and a > > half to track the fault. > > > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > ] > On Behalf > > Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: 25 November 2007 04:31 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > > > Stuart > > > > I would expect the bias adjustment to be rather critical and I > wouldn't > > expect the noise to be less than a cassette deck, even when the > tape is > > stopped. But the pops and ticks should be improved if the bias is > > correct. A 40Hz tone might help you realize if the bias is shy (it > will > > be all fuzzy and have more harmonic than fundamental) > > . > > > > > > I demagnetized the heads and checked the heads but having a > problem with > > > finding the Bias, the signal is clean from the oscillator so > there must be > > > something else along the path of the oscillator causing the > problem or > > > something on the record head, something else I noticed was a lot > of hiss > > > from the analogue side even when the tape is not being played. > The tape is > > > used stuff and I have some brand new tape too, if I use the > machine in > > > play > > > mode without anything on the tape there is no pops, if I put the > digital > > > tape though my old Studer C37 the pops are removed but are > placed back on > > > again once I record with the Sony, is it possible there is a > Bias setting > > > for these machines? > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > ] > > > On Behalf > > > Of eddie ciletti > > > Sent: 24 November 2007 16:45 > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3402 pop and crackle > > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > I don't know this machine, but lots of pops on analog tracks > point to > > > either a magnetized head or tape path or a bias oscillator with > high > > > distortion or funky (used) tape. Understand this is a very > skinny track > > > and very vulnerable. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > I have been fixing this reel to reel over a year, its had many > > > > problems and > > > > although the machine gets more stable after each repair there > is > > > still one > > > > fault which has been there since the beginning, can anyone > help with > > > this > > > > one. > > > > > > > > The AUX (Analogue) tracks always record with a lot of pop and > crackle, > > > > being > > > > both channels I would hope it was something to do with the > Bias but the > > > > signal coming to the Rec head looks clean, the digital side is > getting > > > > a lot > > > > of errors (CRC) but records flawlessly. I have been told to > expect > > > the CRC > > > > to be high but I have had the machine perform where you never > see the > > > > error > > > > lights flash which means I think there is room for > improvement. Does > > > > anyone > > > > have any ideas on this? > > > > > > > > Cheers for now! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1346 From: "god_awful" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:29 am Subject: APR24 manual god_awful Offline Send Email hey, i just bought two of these things. they came with one manual, but it is incomplete. i think i'm missing about ten pages that i've noticed thus far. this machine seems to be less intuitive than my previous machine (ms-16) so i think i'll need the whole thing. a quick search found some links for berklee that i can't access. can anyone help? i'll post specific pages if any kind soul out there could scan em for me. thanks in advance. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1347 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:48 pm Subject: Sony APR-24 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, The Sony APR-24 manual is a lot thinner than the APR-5000 manuals. While not everything is identical between the two machines, the APR-5000 manual (the 1/4-1/2-inch two track timecode version) might have better explanations of the things that are similar. Fortunately, there is a fairly complete copy of the manual online . http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v If you have specific missing pages some of us could perhaps check our thin APR-24 manuals and see if we have them. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1348 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:06 pm Subject: RE: APR24 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email At some point in the next few months I can, there is a studio I handle that has one I can copy a limited number of pages for you. All I have here from Sony are MXP console manuals. I think I have a JH600 manual as well as a JH24 manual and a JH110 manual. Cary likely has a manual, but I can't speak for him. Either one of us can likely help with some questions, if you post them here... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of god_awful Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:29 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR24 manual hey, i just bought two of these things. they came with one manual, but it is incomplete. i think i'm missing about ten pages that i've noticed thus far. this machine seems to be less intuitive than my previous machine (ms-16) so i think i'll need the whole thing. a quick search found some links for berklee that i can't access. can anyone help? i'll post specific pages if any kind soul out there could scan em for me. thanks in advance. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1349 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:12 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR-24 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I'm thinking the one area in particular that might need the APR-24 manual would be for the remote, since there is a good deal of functionality there that isn't always apparent on the face of it. It might be good if one of us does scan that portion at one point or another for reference purposes.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:48 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR-24 manual Hi, The Sony APR-24 manual is a lot thinner than the APR-5000 manuals. While not everything is identical between the two machines, the APR-5000 manual (the 1/4-1/2-inch two track timecode version) might have better explanations of the things that are similar. Fortunately, there is a fairly complete copy of the manual online . http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v If you have specific missing pages some of us could perhaps check our thin APR-24 manuals and see if we have them. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1350 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:19 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR-24 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email I don't have access to the big scanner I had when I did the APR-5000 manual...but I might be able to buy scans when the church gets their new machine next year. There may be some perks to installing and maintaining and training sound people. In that case, I'd just scan the whole manual. Cheers, Richard At 01:12 PM 2007-11-29, you wrote: > >Richard, > >I'm thinking the one area in particular that might need the APR-24 >manual would be for the remote, since there is a good deal of >functionality there that isn't always apparent on the face of it. It >might be good if one of us does scan that portion at one point or >another for reference purposes.... > >Scott > >________________________________ > >From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Richard L. Hess >Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:48 AM >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR-24 manual > > > >Hi, > >The Sony APR-24 manual is a lot thinner than the APR-5000 manuals. >While not everything is identical between the two machines, the >APR-5000 manual (the 1/4-1/2-inch two track timecode version) might >have better explanations of the things that are similar. > >Fortunately, there is a fairly complete copy of the manual online >. > >http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ >username: apr >password: apr5003v > >If you have specific missing pages some of us could perhaps check our >thin APR-24 manuals and see if we have them. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1351 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:42 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR-24 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I have a similar problem these days. If I do it it would be at a Kinko's or the like, and it isn't free. My scanner doesn't handle the big stuff either. I have helped out a few of the folks here on the list at my cost before, and am likely to again for the same reasons you do... but doing the entire manual at what a copying place charges is not in my budget. Scott *********************************************************************** I don't have access to the big scanner I had when I did the APR-5000 manual...but I might be able to buy scans when the church gets their new machine next year. There may be some perks to installing and maintaining and training sound people. In that case, I'd just scan the whole manual. Cheers, Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1352 From: "wrekamusic" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:16 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR-24 manual wrekamusic Offline Send Email Jim at Westlake Audio in CA, sent me an original technical training manual for my APR 24. It has scematics too. Unfortunately, my scanner has bit the dust so I won't be able to scan it yet, but if any APR 24 owners need a copy in the future, just let me know. Rick --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, > > The Sony APR-24 manual is a lot thinner than the APR-5000 manuals. > While not everything is identical between the two machines, the > APR-5000 manual (the 1/4-1/2-inch two track timecode version) might > have better explanations of the things that are similar. > > Fortunately, there is a fairly complete copy of the manual online . > > http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > username: apr > password: apr5003v > > If you have specific missing pages some of us could perhaps check our > thin APR-24 manuals and see if we have them. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1353 From: "wrekamusic" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 pm Subject: Sony PCM-3324S remote wrekamusic Offline Send Email Does anyone know if the Sony PCM-3324S (Digital 24 track) REMOTE will work with a Sony APR 24? I found one online, and it looks very similar to the SU224. Thanks, Rick Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)#1354 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:00 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3324S remote ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...this one should be fore Cary, I think.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wrekamusic Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:19 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3324S remote Does anyone know if the Sony PCM-3324S (Digital 24 track) REMOTE will work with a Sony APR 24? I found one online, and it looks very similar to the SU224. Thanks, Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1354 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:00 pm Subject: RE: Sony PCM-3324S remote ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ...this one should be fore Cary, I think.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wrekamusic Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:19 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony PCM-3324S remote Does anyone know if the Sony PCM-3324S (Digital 24 track) REMOTE will work with a Sony APR 24? I found one online, and it looks very similar to the SU224. Thanks, Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1355 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:18 am Subject: Re: Sony PCM-3324S remote ladewd Offline Send Email Unfotunately, the PCM remote will not work with an APR-24. There were 2 kinds of PCM remotes. One had a din style connector and the other had a 50 pin d-sub connector. Neither of these will work with the APR. The APR's remote requires power from the machine. The PCM remote has its own power supply. The pin-outs are also completely different. In other words, you're liable do a fair amount of damage to the remote or the machine if you try to use them together. Even while we were building the APR's, remotes were in very short supply. We had a studio where the remote was stolen and even during production, it took 6 months of planning and salesman hounding before Sony would give one up. My recommendation at this point would be to look around for another machine. This way, you'll have enough parts to keep one of them running. If you can't do this, it may be quite some time before you can find a remote separate from a machine. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "wrekamusic" wrote: > > Does anyone know if the Sony PCM-3324S (Digital 24 track) REMOTE will > work with a Sony APR 24? I found one online, and it looks very > similar to the SU224. > > Thanks, > > Rick > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1356 From: R A Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:26 pm Subject: Sony Parts and Service wrekamusic Offline Send Email https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-service-contacts.aspx I came across this Sony parts and service website today. Regards, Rick ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1357 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 5:35 pm Subject: Re: Sony Parts and Service ladewd Offline Send Email My experience (and my customers' experiences) show there are very few parts and almost no technical assistance available for the APR. Ask them about an APR. I bet they'll be scratching their heads. There are a few techs that know something about them, but apart from Greg Henwood (who isn't a member on this list), Scott, Steve Sadler and myself, you're not going to find anyone that's really up on these machines. ...and I've forgotten more than I remember . As soon as the factory closed, all parts dried up. I spent a week with a purchasing guy to compile a list of the parts I felt customers would need in the future. He pretty much shot down everything. Parts that took a long time to wear out and were not ordered often, he refused to stock. Those parts he decided to stock, were used up and never made again. The rest were thrown out. There are some exceptions. For instance, brake bands are still available because they're used in every open reel video and DASH machines. You may find parts as long as they have uses in other Sony products. ALN switches and some remote switches for the APR-24 are available if you don't mind replacing amber LED's with the red ones used on the PCM- 3348. The lamps on the small front panel (Network/Local, Hi/Lo Speed) switches on the APR-24 are also available since they are used in the BVU-800 3/4" video machine. The best advice I can give is to treat your APR's with love. note: slamming the record switch will not make a tighter punch in ;-) Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, R A wrote: > > https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-service-contacts.aspx > > > I came across this Sony parts and service website > today. > > Regards, > > Rick > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > Make Yahoo! your homepage. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1358 From: "muscleshoals.soundstudios" Date: Thu Dec 6, 2007 12:51 pm Subject: Muscle Shoals Sound Studios muscleshoals... Offline Send Email Glad to be here MCI jh-416 MCI jh-16/24 MCI jh-16/16 MCI jh-110c www.muscleshoalssound.org Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1359 From: Dana White Date: Thu Dec 6, 2007 3:40 pm Subject: Re: Muscle Shoals Sound Studios djwaudio Offline Send Email Welcome aboard. Appreciate the keepers of the flame! Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Dec 6, 2007, at 12:51 PM, muscleshoals.soundstudios wrote: > Glad to be here > MCI jh-416 > MCI jh-16/24 > MCI jh-16/16 > MCI jh-110c > www.muscleshoalssound.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1360 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Dec 6, 2007 4:34 pm Subject: Re: Muscle Shoals Sound Studios eddieaudio Offline Send Email Dana I'm curious about your 416. Is it an early model with no mute buttons? eddie > Welcome aboard. Appreciate the keepers of the flame! > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 654-1490 > (508) 872-9478 > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 12:51 PM, muscleshoals.soundstudios wrote: > > > Glad to be here > > MCI jh-416 > > MCI jh-16/24 > > MCI jh-16/16 > > MCI jh-110c > > www.muscleshoalssound.org > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1361 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Dec 6, 2007 8:06 pm Subject: RE: Muscle Shoals Sound Studios ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email JH-416 ? That's a blast from the past.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of muscleshoals.soundstudios Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:51 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Muscle Shoals Sound Studios Glad to be here MCI jh-416 MCI jh-16/24 MCI jh-16/16 MCI jh-110c www.muscleshoalssound.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1362 From: "jjfregistration" Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:10 pm Subject: Oh! jjfregistration Offline Send Email And it's a 110C. Thanks, = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1363 From: "jjfregistration" Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:09 pm Subject: JH110 Bias setting troubles. jjfregistration Offline Send Email When I try to set the bias on channel 2 of my 2 channel JH110, the bias will not peak. I can turn the potentiometer clockwise and see the needle fall. But when I try to find the other side of the peak going counterclockwise, the needle gets up to a certain point and hovers back and forth in about a 2 db range. No amount of turning gets it to fall back. Only when I begin to turn it back clockwise will I see the needle fall. Here's what hasn't worked in fixing it – 1. Changing the tape 2. Changing the speed 3. Cleaning the heads 4. Swapping out the bias card 5. Swearing at it Help? = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1364 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:11 pm Subject: RE: JH110 Bias setting troubles. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email One possibility is the bias trap adjustment on the motherboard. Sometimes folks accidentally turn that trimmer cap instead of the erase peak trimmer. I've also seen a few short out from being over tightened. Can you get a decent bias peak on the other channel..? I wouldn't turn up the bias/erase osc level or mess with the transformer adjustment on the rear strip / master osc board unless you have the right equipment, particularly a scope and a frequency counter. Adjusting the transformer will change the osc frequency, and that will also throw the bias trap adjustment points out as well. If the master osc frequency isn't exactly right, adjust the transformer to make it right first. You can also easily force the bias card to clip, which makes the machine sound nasty.. Hope that helps... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjfregistration Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:09 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] JH110 Bias setting troubles. When I try to set the bias on channel 2 of my 2 channel JH110, the bias will not peak. I can turn the potentiometer clockwise and see the needle fall. But when I try to find the other side of the peak going counterclockwise, the needle gets up to a certain point and hovers back and forth in about a 2 db range. No amount of turning gets it to fall back. Only when I begin to turn it back clockwise will I see the needle fall. Here's what hasn't worked in fixing it - 1. Changing the tape 2. Changing the speed 3. Cleaning the heads 4. Swapping out the bias card 5. Swearing at it Help? = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1365 From: Dana White Date: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:20 pm Subject: Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. djwaudio Offline Send Email What frequency are you using to set bias? Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 654-1490 (508) 872-9478 On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:09 PM, jjfregistration wrote: > When I try to set the bias on channel 2 of my 2 channel JH110, the > bias will not peak. I can turn the potentiometer clockwise and see > the needle fall. But when I try to find the other side of the peak > going counterclockwise, the needle gets up to a certain point and > hovers back and forth in about a 2 db range. No amount of turning > gets it to fall back. Only when I begin to turn it back clockwise > will I see the needle fall. > > Here's what hasn't worked in fixing it – > > 1. Changing the tape > 2. Changing the speed > 3. Cleaning the heads > 4. Swapping out the bias card > 5. Swearing at it > > Help? > > = Justin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1366 From: Justin Foley Date: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:58 pm Subject: Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. jjfregistration Offline Send Email I¹m biasing to 10K. I¹ll check the bias setting on the motherboard and see if that helps. For what it¹s worth, this happened after I switched head blocks from my 1/2² to 1/4². I haven¹t used the machine in a few months, so I¹m not ready to claim causality on the switch. Typing this out, it occurs to me that I should switch back to the 1/2 headblock and see if the problem sticks. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1367 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:05 am Subject: RE: Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The 1/2" stack has some bias issues. The 1/4" blocks don't. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Foley Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:58 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. I¹m biasing to 10K. I¹ll check the bias setting on the motherboard and see if that helps. For what it¹s worth, this happened after I switched head blocks from my 1/2² to 1/4². I haven¹t used the machine in a few months, so I¹m not ready to claim causality on the switch. Typing this out, it occurs to me that I should switch back to the 1/2 headblock and see if the problem sticks. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1368 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:11 am Subject: RE: Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Remember that the bias traps and the erase peaks must be set on a JH-110 for the head stack it has on it. Further, JH-110a is very different from a JH-110b/c regardless of the transport. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:05 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. The 1/2" stack has some bias issues. The 1/4" blocks don't. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Justin Foley Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:58 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: JH110 Bias setting troubles. I¹m biasing to 10K. I¹ll check the bias setting on the motherboard and see if that helps. For what it¹s worth, this happened after I switched head blocks from my 1/2² to 1/4². I haven¹t used the machine in a few months, so I¹m not ready to claim causality on the switch. Typing this out, it occurs to me that I should switch back to the 1/2 headblock and see if the problem sticks. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1369 From: "grssystems" Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:15 am Subject: APR-24 Transport Lamps Source grssystems Offline Send Email Does anyone know of a good source for the lamps used in the lighted transport switches of the APR-24? A part number would also be very helpful. I had a large stash of these lamps that have lasted over the years, but is now depleted. And I'll be draned if I can find a part number on the lamps. These are the T1 style lamps with the uninsulated wire leads. Thanks for any help! Regards, Ted Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1370 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:37 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 Transport Lamps Source rtymeout Offline Send Email Yes, you may try George Petricko ( Mica Company...PSI/Petricko Sales ) 526 North Drive Tracys Landing, Md. 20779 Phone: 1-301-855-7700 That style of lamp is used in the Tektronix 1740 Waveform/Vectorscope Monitor although the voltage and current draw may be different. George has quite a selection of new/old stock. For everyone in our group...may your holiday season and beyond be safe & blessed... Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "grssystems" : -------------- Does anyone know of a good source for the lamps used in the lighted transport switches of the APR-24? A part number would also be very helpful. I had a large stash of these lamps that have lasted over the years, but is now depleted. And I'll be draned if I can find a part number on the lamps. These are the T1 style lamps with the uninsulated wire leads. Thanks for any help! Regards, Ted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1371 From: twjolly@... Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:01 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 Transport Lamps Source twjjolly Offline Send Email Thank you for the info Craig. I will try contacting George next week. Regards, Ted In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:50:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, c.tayerle@... writes: Yes, you may try George Petricko ( Mica Company...PSI/Yes, you may 526 North Drive Tracys Landing, Md. 20779 Phone: 1-301-855-7700 That style of lamp is used in the Tektronix 1740 Waveform/VectorscopThat style of lamp is used in the Tektronix 1740 Waveform/Vectorscope Monitor although the voltage and curr For everyone in our group...may your holiday season and beyond be safe & blessed... Craig J. Tayerle -------------------------- Original message f<_grsystem@..._ (mailto:grsystem@...) >: ------------: Does anyone know of a good source for the lamps used in the lighted transport switches of the APR-24? A part number would also be very helpful. I had a large stash of these lamps that have lasted over the years, but is now depleted. And I'll be draned if I can find a part number on the lamps. These are the T1 style lamps with the uninsulated wire leads. Thanks for any help! Regards, Ted **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1372 From: "Brian" Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:12 pm Subject: Anybody selling an APR 5003? criticsdrmr Offline Send Email Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me know! Thanks, Brian Harden Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1373 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:42 pm Subject: Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? richardlhess Offline Send Email The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? Cheers, Richard At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: >Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into >a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the >market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was >scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try >this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me >know! > >Thanks, >Brian Harden > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1374 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:59 pm Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, in-focus image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to oscillate, and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. eddie PS: I have a machine here to test on. > > The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > >Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into > >a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > >market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > >scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > >this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me > >know! > > > >Thanks, > >Brian Harden > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1375 From: "Brian" Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:07 pm Subject: Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? criticsdrmr Offline Send Email Cary had mentioned back in October that the RMD is the hardest board in the machine to repair. I figured that I would go ahead and buy another working machine and use the one I had as a parts machine. My buddy also has an APR 5002, so we don't mind having a parts machine around! However, if Eddie can fix these for less than another machine... I'd look at going that route. Thanks again, Brian --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > >Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into > >a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > >market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > >scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > >this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me > >know! > > > >Thanks, > >Brian Harden > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1376 From: "westendrecording" Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:11 pm Subject: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home westendrecor... Offline Send Email One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer A-80 1" Layback as well. If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. Mike Miller Westend Recording Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1377 From: edaudio Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:07 pm Subject: Re: Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Brian I have fixed at least 6 RMD boards. At first I too thought they were hard to repair. I've including a link to the schematic and "procedures." Aside from confirming that, even after overheating, transistors are still good (they usually are), I would do the repairs in sequence, just so you can confirm that the mod makes the biggest difference. Start by adding two caps, one for each "motor channel." *(shown in RED.)* http://www.tangible-technology.com/schematics/sony/apr5000/RMD_schema_comp.pdf For those who would rather not attempt this and have bought machines for parts just for this board, I'd be happy to take a look. I have a machine here to test. eddie > Cary had mentioned back in October that the RMD is the hardest board > in the machine to repair. I figured that I would go ahead and buy > another working machine and use the one I had as a parts machine. > My buddy also has an APR 5002, so we don't mind having a parts > machine around! > > However, if Eddie can fix these for less than another machine... I'd > look at going that route. > > Thanks again, > > Brian > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > > > The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > > >Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn > into > > >a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in > the > > >market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > > >scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > > >this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, > let me > > >know! > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Brian Harden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1209 - Release Date: 1/4/2008 12:05 PM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1378 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:09 am Subject: RE: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, I would love any of these machines but it's a shame I am so far away (UK) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of westendrecording Sent: 04 January 2008 18:11 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer A-80 1" Layback as well. If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. Mike Miller Westend Recording [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1379 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:29 am Subject: RE: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I would love to be the new owner of the MCI JH-110C machines to keep the one I already have company. However, I am not sure of the best way to ship them into West Palm Beach, Florida. Having said that, I do have property 10 minutes outside of Bentonville, Arkansas and plan to rent a storage area there. Perhaps, something could be arranged? Please let me know! Thank you, Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Hello, I would love any of these machines but it's a shame I am so far away (UK) From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of westendrecording Sent: 04 January 2008 18:11 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer A-80 1" Layback as well. If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. Mike Miller Westend Recording [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1380 From: "petersinnett" Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:52 pm Subject: Re: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home petersinnett Offline Send Email I'm with Stuart on this one, it's a pity they are so far away. what we need is a Star Trek 'transporter' !! Peter. (also in the UK) --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Hello, I would love any of these machines but it's a shame I am so far away > (UK) > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of westendrecording > Sent: 04 January 2008 18:11 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home > > > > One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" > Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I > believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine > for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer > A-80 1" Layback as well. > > If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. > > Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. > > Mike Miller > Westend Recording > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1381 From: "Joshua Smith" Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 8:20 pm Subject: Re: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home rockitrecord... Offline Send Email Is he throwing these machines away? I would gladly take them off his hands! My JH-110 is out of commisson having a working one would be a Godsend! Joshua Smith 219 263 9404 On Jan 4, 2008 12:11 PM, westendrecording wrote: > One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" > Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I > believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine > for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer > A-80 1" Layback as well. > > If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. > > Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. > > Mike Miller > Westend Recording > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1382 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:29 am Subject: RE: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Keep in mind that there are many different things between the 110 LB machines and the 2/4 track 110's. Most of the PCB art is the same (within each series, that is A, B, or C series), but component values for things like EQ, bias / erase, torque board, and if I'm not mistaken the PLL board has a few changes on it. This assumes you are going between two JH110C machines, the B's were different in a number of ways, and the JH110A's are VERY different. It was a long time ago at the factory, and we didn't make many of the 110LB machines, but I think the capstan diameter was also different. My point is that while they are similar in a great many general ways, board swapping is something you will need to do with care. As I recall, the analog torque PCB alone has a number of different resistor values to allow for torque / tension / acceleration / deceleration. The audio boards will have different parts values and jumper settings as well. It isn't that you can't convert, it just isn't as easy as it looks. If you have proper schematics, the 'notes' section at the bottom (usually) will give you the information you need for conversion from one format to the other. If there is an ALIII autolocator, there might be a software change needed if you are planning on using that. Cary might remember if there was different software for the layback machine. I honestly can't remember any more. It might be that it used the 1" 8 track software, I just don't remember. If the vari-speed on the locater won't work on your other machine, there I might be able to help if I can remember the details. There was a change in the series, I think it was going to an open collector on the transistor in the ALIII vari-speed circuit that made the later ALIII not work with the older machine. It was easy to change though. I once took a 1/4" JH110A and converted it to a 1/2" JH110C, mechanical transport through audio electronics. Both the audio electronics drawers were out right replaced, as was the headstack, head cables, quite a few transport boards were heavily modified or replaced, as was the deck plate. The top cover was cut to allow the extra rollers, along with the active tension feedback parts. The autolocator display and CPU board were added, along with the required harnessing. It was only possible because I worked at the factory and had for years collected scratch 'n dent and junk engineering prototype parts like that deck plate. I did the job for just the price of labor, it being a friends unit, but it was quite a job to do over a weekend. It came out fine, and more than 10 years later the deck is still in reliable service. I remember the guy coming in to the studio room, seeing hundreds of parts laid out on a sheet, and a completely empty 110 VP cabinet, and nearly having heart failure. By the next day, he was a happy camper, but until then he was sure I'd never get it to work again. Even setting up the tape path wasn't that big a hassle, but I did plan it all out well in advance. Dang those little allen screws on the reel motor tach's, though !! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Smith Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:20 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home Is he throwing these machines away? I would gladly take them off his hands! My JH-110 is out of commisson having a working one would be a Godsend! Joshua Smith 219 263 9404 On Jan 4, 2008 12:11 PM, westendrecording > wrote: > One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" > Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I > believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine > for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer > A-80 1" Layback as well. > > If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. > > Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. > > Mike Miller > Westend Recording > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1383 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:09 am Subject: Re: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott when did you work there? eddie > Keep in mind that there are many different things between the 110 LB > machines and the 2/4 track 110's. Most of the PCB art is the same > (within each series, that is A, B, or C series), but component values > for things like EQ, bias / erase, torque board, and if I'm not mistaken > the PLL board has a few changes on it. This assumes you are going > between two JH110C machines, the B's were different in a number of ways, > and the JH110A's are VERY different. It was a long time ago at the > factory, and we didn't make many of the 110LB machines, but I think the > capstan diameter was also different. My point is that while they are > similar in a great many general ways, board swapping is something you > will need to do with care. As I recall, the analog torque PCB alone has > a number of different resistor values to allow for torque / tension / > acceleration / deceleration. The audio boards will have different parts > values and jumper settings as well. It isn't that you can't convert, it > just isn't as easy as it looks. If you have proper schematics, the > 'notes' section at the bottom (usually) will give you the information > you need for conversion from one format to the other. If there is an > ALIII autolocator, there might be a software change needed if you are > planning on using that. Cary might remember if there was different > software for the layback machine. I honestly can't remember any more. It > might be that it used the 1" 8 track software, I just don't remember. If > the vari-speed on the locater won't work on your other machine, there I > might be able to help if I can remember the details. There was a change > in the series, I think it was going to an open collector on the > transistor in the ALIII vari-speed circuit that made the later ALIII not > work with the older machine. It was easy to change though. > > I once took a 1/4" JH110A and converted it to a 1/2" JH110C, mechanical > transport through audio electronics. Both the audio electronics drawers > were out right replaced, as was the headstack, head cables, quite a few > transport boards were heavily modified or replaced, as was the deck > plate. The top cover was cut to allow the extra rollers, along with the > active tension feedback parts. The autolocator display and CPU board > were added, along with the required harnessing. It was only possible > because I worked at the factory and had for years collected scratch 'n > dent and junk engineering prototype parts like that deck plate. I did > the job for just the price of labor, it being a friends unit, but it was > quite a job to do over a weekend. It came out fine, and more than 10 > years later the deck is still in reliable service. > > I remember the guy coming in to the studio room, seeing hundreds of > parts laid out on a sheet, and a completely empty 110 VP cabinet, and > nearly having heart failure. By the next day, he was a happy camper, but > until then he was sure I'd never get it to work again. Even setting up > the tape path wasn't that big a hassle, but I did plan it all out well > in advance. Dang those little allen screws on the reel motor tach's, > though !! > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Joshua Smith > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:20 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home > > Is he throwing these machines away? I would gladly take them off his > hands! > My JH-110 is out of commisson having a working one would be a Godsend! > > Joshua Smith > 219 263 9404 > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:11 PM, westendrecording > > wrote: > > > One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" > > Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I > > believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine > > for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer > > A-80 1" Layback as well. > > > > If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. > > > > Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. > > > > Mike Miller > > Westend Recording > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1384 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:36 am Subject: RE: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email mid 1980's, there abouts. I got imported from Criteria in Miami to run QA and try to do something about some of the sometimes miserable quality level of the products. I was late to the party for JH series products, but right there for the APR and MXP prototype and production run QA. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:10 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home Scott when did you work there? eddie > Keep in mind that there are many different things between the 110 LB > machines and the 2/4 track 110's. Most of the PCB art is the same > (within each series, that is A, B, or C series), but component values > for things like EQ, bias / erase, torque board, and if I'm not mistaken > the PLL board has a few changes on it. This assumes you are going > between two JH110C machines, the B's were different in a number of ways, > and the JH110A's are VERY different. It was a long time ago at the > factory, and we didn't make many of the 110LB machines, but I think the > capstan diameter was also different. My point is that while they are > similar in a great many general ways, board swapping is something you > will need to do with care. As I recall, the analog torque PCB alone has > a number of different resistor values to allow for torque / tension / > acceleration / deceleration. The audio boards will have different parts > values and jumper settings as well. It isn't that you can't convert, it > just isn't as easy as it looks. If you have proper schematics, the > 'notes' section at the bottom (usually) will give you the information > you need for conversion from one format to the other. If there is an > ALIII autolocator, there might be a software change needed if you are > planning on using that. Cary might remember if there was different > software for the layback machine. I honestly can't remember any more. It > might be that it used the 1" 8 track software, I just don't remember. If > the vari-speed on the locater won't work on your other machine, there I > might be able to help if I can remember the details. There was a change > in the series, I think it was going to an open collector on the > transistor in the ALIII vari-speed circuit that made the later ALIII not > work with the older machine. It was easy to change though. > > I once took a 1/4" JH110A and converted it to a 1/2" JH110C, mechanical > transport through audio electronics. Both the audio electronics drawers > were out right replaced, as was the headstack, head cables, quite a few > transport boards were heavily modified or replaced, as was the deck > plate. The top cover was cut to allow the extra rollers, along with the > active tension feedback parts. The autolocator display and CPU board > were added, along with the required harnessing. It was only possible > because I worked at the factory and had for years collected scratch 'n > dent and junk engineering prototype parts like that deck plate. I did > the job for just the price of labor, it being a friends unit, but it was > quite a job to do over a weekend. It came out fine, and more than 10 > years later the deck is still in reliable service. > > I remember the guy coming in to the studio room, seeing hundreds of > parts laid out on a sheet, and a completely empty 110 VP cabinet, and > nearly having heart failure. By the next day, he was a happy camper, but > until then he was sure I'd never get it to work again. Even setting up > the tape path wasn't that big a hassle, but I did plan it all out well > in advance. Dang those little allen screws on the reel motor tach's, > though !! > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of Joshua Smith > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:20 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home > > Is he throwing these machines away? I would gladly take them off his > hands! > My JH-110 is out of commisson having a working one would be a Godsend! > > Joshua Smith > 219 263 9404 > > On Jan 4, 2008 12:11 PM, westendrecording > > > wrote: > > > One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" > > Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I > > believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine > > for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer > > A-80 1" Layback as well. > > > > If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. > > > > Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. > > > > Mike Miller > > Westend Recording > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 11:46 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1385 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:59 pm Subject: Re: Mint JH-110C Layback Machines(2) need new home rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I have one MCI-JH-110C in mint condition and I was contemplating the purchase of a Sony APR-5000. However, I would be interested in giving them a new home, but freight to West Palm Beach, Florida may be prohibitive. It would be a tragedy to see them thrown out! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "westendrecording" : -------------- One my studio friends here in Kansas City has 2 Mint JH-110C 1" Layback machines in VP cabs that he needs to move out or throw out. I believe that they bought these new. They would make a great machine for 1/2" 2-track conversion or parts machines. He also had a Studer A-80 1" Layback as well. If anyone has any interest let me know and I'll refer you to him. Hate to see 'em go to the landfill. Mike Miller Westend Recording [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1386 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:14 pm Subject: New member thinking of buying an APR richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, I've been corresponding with Bob Williams who is looking at perhaps buying an APR-5000 from an AM radio station. I've already told him some things to look for like stay away from the first generation machines with the metal lifters and one-piece rollers, and look for signs of abuse and check the heads--I pointed him to a page at JRF's that shows wear and relapping. He's now a member of the group, so if you've got specific things to tell him (other than radio stations often beat machines to a pulp) please post to the list. Thanks Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1387 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:32 pm Subject: RE: New member thinking of buying an APR ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Radio stations beat machines to a pulp. Now I said it too..! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:14 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] New member thinking of buying an APR Hi, I've been corresponding with Bob Williams who is looking at perhaps buying an APR-5000 from an AM radio station. I've already told him some things to look for like stay away from the first generation machines with the metal lifters and one-piece rollers, and look for signs of abuse and check the heads--I pointed him to a page at JRF's that shows wear and relapping. He's now a member of the group, so if you've got specific things to tell him (other than radio stations often beat machines to a pulp) please post to the list. Thanks Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1388 From: Dana White Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:35 pm Subject: Re: New member thinking of buying an APR djwaudio Offline Send Email Shows you what your machine is made of though... I have an Otari that was through an FM pop station. Works like a charm! Maybe all it'll need is some touch-up paint. Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 (503) 866-8383 On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:32 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > Radio stations beat machines to a pulp. Now I said it too..! > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:14 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] New member thinking of buying an APR > > Hi, > > I've been corresponding with Bob Williams who is looking at perhaps > buying an APR-5000 from an AM radio station. > > I've already told him some things to look for like stay away from the > first generation machines with the metal lifters and one-piece > rollers, and look for signs of abuse and check the heads--I pointed > him to a page at JRF's that shows wear and relapping. > > He's now a member of the group, so if you've got specific things to > tell him (other than radio stations often beat machines to a pulp) > please post to the list. > > Thanks > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1389 From: Brian Harden Date: Mon Jan 7, 2008 10:44 pm Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? criticsdrmr Offline Send Email I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it back to working order. Cheers, Brian ________________________________ > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > From: edaudio@... > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? > > > Richard > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, in-focus > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to oscillate, > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > eddie > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. >> >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Richard >> >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me >>>know! >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Brian Harden >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1390 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 8:57 am Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Brian assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and should not be higher than $300. eddie > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > back to working order. > > Cheers, > Brian > ________________________________ > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > From: edaudio@... > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > Richard > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, in-focus > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to oscillate, > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > eddie > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > >> > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Richard > >> > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me > >>>know! > >>> > >>>Thanks, > >>>Brian Harden > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > __________________________________________________________ > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1391 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:14 pm Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I've always wondered why this oscillation problem didn't turn up in preproduction QA. We beat the snot out of these things at all temperature and running conditions I could think of, nothing RMD wise turned up. It was normally a pretty hot running board, but they just didn't crash and burn for me. Considering their purpose, it made sense that they would be hot. Perhaps it was something artificial 'aging', as it is called, just didn't turn up. That was the case with the power transformer issues that turned up much later. Some things just turn up years later. I left Sony well before the end of the model run, so perhaps something was changed at some point. I'd be curious to opinions as to this RMD issue. I've heard of it before, but does anyone have any idea about the root cause ? (yes, I understand they oscillate, but what might have changed...?) Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:57 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? Brian assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and should not be higher than $300. eddie > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > back to working order. > > Cheers, > Brian > ________________________________ > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > From: edaudio@... > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > Richard > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, in-focus > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to oscillate, > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > eddie > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > >> > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Richard > >> > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn into > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let me > >>>know! > >>> > >>>Thanks, > >>>Brian Harden > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > __________________________________________________________ > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012 008 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1392 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:44 pm Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott I first got one of these boards without the machine it was in. The way it looked - kinda burnt - I thought it was just bad transistors, but when that was not the case I saw the base-collector caps and experimented with different types and higher values - with no machine to test it in. There was some improvement, but not when installed in a machine. When I showed the schematic to a friend, he said the base-collector caps were a brute force way to tame oscillation and that a cap in the feedback loop would work better and it did!. I think I changed the opamps to no avail - one thing about the oscillation is that, when it happens, it's everywhere. So, for whatever reason the board works for so long without failing, it must be close to threshold so that any little thing - or combo of little things - pushes it over the edge. Replacing the caps around the regulators also made an improvement. If you have ever looked at the data sheet for a 7815 / 7915, you'll note the different value ranges depending on the type of caps around them - higher values for electrolytics, much lower values if Tantalum. Maybe the ESR changes - that seems the most likely. If not that, I always wondered if it had anything to do with heat degrading the plate throughs, especially the ground. Or maybe some change in the conformal coating? No matter what, the cap in the feedback loop works best. eddie > I've always wondered why this oscillation problem didn't turn up in > preproduction QA. We beat the snot out of these things at all > temperature and running conditions I could think of, nothing RMD wise > turned up. It was normally a pretty hot running board, but they just > didn't crash and burn for me. Considering their purpose, it made sense > that they would be hot. > > Perhaps it was something artificial 'aging', as it is called, just > didn't turn up. That was the case with the power transformer issues that > turned up much later. Some things just turn up years later. > > I left Sony well before the end of the model run, so perhaps something > was changed at some point. I'd be curious to opinions as to this RMD > issue. I've heard of it before, but does anyone have any idea about the > root cause ? (yes, I understand they oscillate, but what might have > changed...?) > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:57 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? > / RMD repair? > > Brian > > assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and should > not be higher than $300. > > eddie > > > > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > > back to working order. > > > > Cheers, > > Brian > > ________________________________ > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: edaudio@... > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, > in-focus > > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to > oscillate, > > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > > >> > > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> > > >> Richard > > >> > > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn > into > > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let > me > > >>>know! > > >>> > > >>>Thanks, > > >>>Brian Harden > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012 > > 008 > > 2008> > > > > 2008 > > 2008> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1393 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:13 pm Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Interesting indeed. I could speculate that the caps ESR changes push them over the edge. High temperatures most decidedly are hard on caps, and that is one area where time is a critical factor. The preproduction aging tests were typically at 104 degrees and 99 percent humidity for 2 weeks at a time with the machine moving tape, as per the Sony testing spec. from the 'home' company. Each of the preproduction units went through this process multiple times. The QA function was bit of an odd one. Our function in the testing was to make sure the gear met the specs and format of the final product design description and was reliable within that spec. I attended the final meetings of the design committee for the APR, but without a vote on it. QA couldn't review (at least not officially) the circuit or mechanical design except within those bounds. If they didn't meet spec under all the QA test conditions or couldn't be built in a practical way by production, then we would return them to engineering for redesign. I often would add a non-binding suggestion when they were returned to engineering, but they only had to solve the symptom. One area that I did have some success was getting them to change the lifters to ceramic and the rollers to multi-piece. Tom G. in engineering had his own private studio, so he helped push many things through. Some engineers would lose sight of the customer's point of view... once the recorder was out the door, it was a done deal for them. Having had very extensive experience with the JH series machines as a consumer, I tried like the very devil to test in ways to catch problems like they had. The JH110/24 units had lousy tape path, alignment stability, and many, many connector issues, and so I was quite determined to hold their feet to the fire in these areas. Stability with temperature changes was very high on my list. Oh well..... I always wished that the design spec hadn't been so dictated by the requirements of NHK in Japan.... a less compact design would have solved SO many problems. They were a bear to build because of it, and it didn't allow the service side any favors. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:44 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? Scott I first got one of these boards without the machine it was in. The way it looked - kinda burnt - I thought it was just bad transistors, but when that was not the case I saw the base-collector caps and experimented with different types and higher values - with no machine to test it in. There was some improvement, but not when installed in a machine. When I showed the schematic to a friend, he said the base-collector caps were a brute force way to tame oscillation and that a cap in the feedback loop would work better and it did!. I think I changed the opamps to no avail - one thing about the oscillation is that, when it happens, it's everywhere. So, for whatever reason the board works for so long without failing, it must be close to threshold so that any little thing - or combo of little things - pushes it over the edge. Replacing the caps around the regulators also made an improvement. If you have ever looked at the data sheet for a 7815 / 7915, you'll note the different value ranges depending on the type of caps around them - higher values for electrolytics, much lower values if Tantalum. Maybe the ESR changes - that seems the most likely. If not that, I always wondered if it had anything to do with heat degrading the plate throughs, especially the ground. Or maybe some change in the conformal coating? No matter what, the cap in the feedback loop works best. eddie > I've always wondered why this oscillation problem didn't turn up in > preproduction QA. We beat the snot out of these things at all > temperature and running conditions I could think of, nothing RMD wise > turned up. It was normally a pretty hot running board, but they just > didn't crash and burn for me. Considering their purpose, it made sense > that they would be hot. > > Perhaps it was something artificial 'aging', as it is called, just > didn't turn up. That was the case with the power transformer issues that > turned up much later. Some things just turn up years later. > > I left Sony well before the end of the model run, so perhaps something > was changed at some point. I'd be curious to opinions as to this RMD > issue. I've heard of it before, but does anyone have any idea about the > root cause ? (yes, I understand they oscillate, but what might have > changed...?) > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:57 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? > / RMD repair? > > Brian > > assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and should > not be higher than $300. > > eddie > > > > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > > back to working order. > > > > Cheers, > > Brian > > ________________________________ > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: edaudio@... > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, > in-focus > > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to > oscillate, > > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > > >> > > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> > > >> Richard > > >> > > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn > into > > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let > me > > >>>know! > > >>> > > >>>Thanks, > > >>>Brian Harden > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012 > > > 008 > > > > 2008> > > > > > > 2008 > > > > 2008> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1394 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:30 pm Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I looked at a schematic and I'd have to agree on just about all counts. As you say, once it starts it seems to be everywhere. I'd imagine it is all of those areas taken together, so long term shifts pretty much across the board of the caps finally lights off the oscillation. The feedback loop does look to me like the best place to help stabilize the RMD. It is funny how a manufacturer works. The decision as to how to stabilize the board might easily have been made only because of parts stocks on hand, by price, or by if it could be tacked on to the existing board easily in production. There was a set of 'rules' from Sony as to how many jumpers or tacked on parts were allowed on a PCB before the artwork had to be changed to incorporate the changes directly. Naturally that increase costs and delayed things. On the other hand, hand rework of boards increases labor costs and failure rates in final test. A bad choice made for a 'good' reason initially unfortunately would then find its way into a reworked PCB later when no one reexamines things. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:44 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? Scott I first got one of these boards without the machine it was in. The way it looked - kinda burnt - I thought it was just bad transistors, but when that was not the case I saw the base-collector caps and experimented with different types and higher values - with no machine to test it in. There was some improvement, but not when installed in a machine. When I showed the schematic to a friend, he said the base-collector caps were a brute force way to tame oscillation and that a cap in the feedback loop would work better and it did!. I think I changed the opamps to no avail - one thing about the oscillation is that, when it happens, it's everywhere. So, for whatever reason the board works for so long without failing, it must be close to threshold so that any little thing - or combo of little things - pushes it over the edge. Replacing the caps around the regulators also made an improvement. If you have ever looked at the data sheet for a 7815 / 7915, you'll note the different value ranges depending on the type of caps around them - higher values for electrolytics, much lower values if Tantalum. Maybe the ESR changes - that seems the most likely. If not that, I always wondered if it had anything to do with heat degrading the plate throughs, especially the ground. Or maybe some change in the conformal coating? No matter what, the cap in the feedback loop works best. eddie > I've always wondered why this oscillation problem didn't turn up in > preproduction QA. We beat the snot out of these things at all > temperature and running conditions I could think of, nothing RMD wise > turned up. It was normally a pretty hot running board, but they just > didn't crash and burn for me. Considering their purpose, it made sense > that they would be hot. > > Perhaps it was something artificial 'aging', as it is called, just > didn't turn up. That was the case with the power transformer issues that > turned up much later. Some things just turn up years later. > > I left Sony well before the end of the model run, so perhaps something > was changed at some point. I'd be curious to opinions as to this RMD > issue. I've heard of it before, but does anyone have any idea about the > root cause ? (yes, I understand they oscillate, but what might have > changed...?) > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:57 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? > / RMD repair? > > Brian > > assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and should > not be higher than $300. > > eddie > > > > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > > back to working order. > > > > Cheers, > > Brian > > ________________________________ > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: edaudio@... > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, > in-focus > > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to > oscillate, > > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > > >> > > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> > > >> Richard > > >> > > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn > into > > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let > me > > >>>know! > > >>> > > >>>Thanks, > > >>>Brian Harden > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012 > > > 008 > > > > 2008> > > > > > > 2008 > > > > 2008> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1395 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:16 pm Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Scott Working on the RMD board was a funny way to get introduced to the APR - I had not previous experience except an alignment. I wondered why my one out-of-town client had so many failed boards, while my local client had one perfectly happy machien - except fo rthe tape break sensor, which works on power up then fails. I haven't investigated, but it's on the list. AND, I have to agreed with you 100% about the internal density - it's not an inviting beast to work on. Fortunately, it does seem pretty reliable and, while my back holds out, I can actually move it myself. Regarding the JH series, when I returned to Philly after my brief stint at MCI (sept 76 to june 77), I was told more than once that I would always be able to find work. It is a shame that what were generally good designs were dogged by poor connector choices. eddie > I looked at a schematic and I'd have to agree on just about all counts. > As you say, once it starts it seems to be everywhere. I'd imagine it is > all of those areas taken together, so long term shifts pretty much > across the board of the caps finally lights off the oscillation. The > feedback loop does look to me like the best place to help stabilize the > RMD. > > It is funny how a manufacturer works. The decision as to how to > stabilize the board might easily have been made only because of parts > stocks on hand, by price, or by if it could be tacked on to the existing > board easily in production. There was a set of 'rules' from Sony as to > how many jumpers or tacked on parts were allowed on a PCB before the > artwork had to be changed to incorporate the changes directly. Naturally > that increase costs and delayed things. On the other hand, hand rework > of boards increases labor costs and failure rates in final test. > > A bad choice made for a 'good' reason initially unfortunately would then > find its way into a reworked PCB later when no one reexamines things. > > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:44 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR 5003? > / RMD repair? > > Scott > > I first got one of these boards without the machine it was in. The way > it looked - kinda burnt - I thought it was just bad transistors, but > when that was not the case I saw the base-collector caps and > experimented with different types and higher values - with no machine to > > test it in. There was some improvement, but not when installed in a > machine. When I showed the schematic to a friend, he said the > base-collector caps were a brute force way to tame oscillation and that > a cap in the feedback loop would work better and it did!. > > I think I changed the opamps to no avail - one thing about the > oscillation is that, when it happens, it's everywhere. So, for whatever > reason the board works for so long without failing, it must be close to > threshold so that any little thing - or combo of little things - pushes > it over the edge. > > Replacing the caps around the regulators also made an improvement. If > you have ever looked at the data sheet for a 7815 / 7915, you'll note > the different value ranges depending on the type of caps around them - > higher values for electrolytics, much lower values if Tantalum. Maybe > the ESR changes - that seems the most likely. > > If not that, I always wondered if it had anything to do with heat > degrading the plate throughs, especially the ground. Or maybe some > change in the conformal coating? No matter what, the cap in the > feedback loop works best. > > eddie > > > I've always wondered why this oscillation problem didn't turn up in > > preproduction QA. We beat the snot out of these things at all > > temperature and running conditions I could think of, nothing RMD wise > > turned up. It was normally a pretty hot running board, but they just > > didn't crash and burn for me. Considering their purpose, it made sense > > that they would be hot. > > > > Perhaps it was something artificial 'aging', as it is called, just > > didn't turn up. That was the case with the power transformer issues > that > > turned up much later. Some things just turn up years later. > > > > I left Sony well before the end of the model run, so perhaps something > > was changed at some point. I'd be curious to opinions as to this RMD > > issue. I've heard of it before, but does anyone have any idea about > the > > root cause ? (yes, I understand they oscillate, but what might have > > changed...?) > > > > Scott > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > ] On > > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:57 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > 5003? > > / RMD repair? > > > > Brian > > > > assuming it's what I think it is, the minimum charge is $150 and > should > > not be higher than $300. > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > I think I'll just pull the card out and send out for you to work on. > > > I'm able to do simpler stuff, but I'd rather have you work on this > > > one. I'll try and pull it out next week and ship it out to you. I > > > really thought this machine was a goner! Hopefully, this will get it > > > back to working order. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Brian > > > ________________________________ > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > From: edaudio@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:59:17 -0600 > > > > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [sony_apr] Anybody selling an APR > > > 5003? / RMD repair? > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > Yes, I can repair or instruct to repair. A hi-rez, well-lit, > > in-focus > > > > image of the pcb would be a great start. The board loves to > > oscillate, > > > > and that makes it get very hot to the point of melting solder. > > > > Surprisingly, the devices seem to be able to recover from it. > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > PS: I have a machine here to test on. > > > >> > > > >> The RMD should be repairable. Eddie? You fix these, don't you? > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> > > > >> Richard > > > >> > > > >> At 12:12 PM 2008-01-04, you wrote: > > > >>>Well, it turns out that the unit I have is going to have to turn > > into > > > >>>a parts machine. The RMD board is completely shot! So, I'm in the > > > >>>market for a new machine. I bought one off of Craigslist, but was > > > >>>scammed and never received it (lesson learned). I thought I'd try > > > >>>this group and see if anybody was willing to sell a unit. So, let > > me > > > >>>know! > > > >>> > > > >>>Thanks, > > > >>>Brian Harden > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012 > > > 2> > > > > 2 > > 2> > > > 008 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: > > 1/7/2008 9:14 AM > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: > 1/9/2008 10:16 AM > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1396 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:20 pm Subject: Re: End Of Tape sensor / RMD Mod / General note richardlhess Offline Send Email Can we trim posts, please ? ? ? Thank you! At 02:16 PM 2008-01-10, eddie ciletti wrote: >my local client >had one perfectly happy machien - except fo rthe tape break sensor, >which works on power up then fails. I haven't investigated, but it's on >the list. The tape break sensor can get dirty -- drop some alcohol in the bottom part and then blow it out with canned air. Also clean the upper part with at least canned air. Also, on one machine I needed to readjust the sensitivity pot for it to be reliable. It drifted a bit upon warmup. Eddie, have you published the mod to the RMD? If so, should we post it in the Forum Files section of this? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1397 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:49 pm Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: End Of Tape sensor / RMD Mod / General note eddieaudio Offline Send Email From Richard... "Eddie, have you published the mod to the RMD? If so, should we post it in the Forum Files section of this?" Yes, this links to the mod... http://www.tangible-technology.com/schematics/sony/apr5000/RMD_schema_comp.pdf > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1398 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:03 pm Subject: RE: Re: End Of Tape sensor / RMD Mod / General note ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email RE: trimming posts Sorry Richard ! I'll try to remember next time... Scott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1399 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:54 pm Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: End Of Tape sensor / RMD Mod / General note eddieaudio Offline Send Email Can we trim posts, please ? ? ? Thank you! sorry Richard, this was my fault - I haven't ever had such a long conversation with anyone here... eddie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1400 From: "dreble" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:57 pm Subject: I would like to join the Sony APR group drebleloaw Offline Send Email >To whom it may concern, >I was referred to you by Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, he suggested >that I join this forum. >He said you folks might be able to help point me in the right direction. >I have an APR 24 that seems to be in fine working condition. The >remote is another issue. >Many of the push switches are not functioning correctly or not at >all. I have a manual and have the Sony part #s, but I understand >that Sony doesn't support this machine any more. Are these switches >still available? Are they rebuildable? Are the l.e.d.s sold >separately. >Any help that the forum could give would be greatly appreciated. >Thank you for your time, > > >Links about me, >My bio - >http://www.johnwalshaudio.com/bio.h tml >About LAVA Room Recording - >http://www.lavaroomrecording.com/ > >Thank you for your consideration, > >John Walsh >Chief Mastering Engineer >Lava Room Recording >1305 W. 80th St. Suite 1A >Cleveland Ohio,44102 >Office - 216-334-1172 >Cell - 216-326-6005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1401 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:39 pm Subject: Re: I would like to join the Sony APR group sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email On Jan 15, 2008 5:57 PM, dreble wrote: > >To whom it may concern, > > >I was referred to you by Steve Sadler @ Blevins Audio, he suggested > > >that I join this forum. > > >He said you folks might be able to help point me in the right direction. > > >I have an APR 24 that seems to be in fine working condition. The > > >remote is another issue. > > >Many of the push switches are not functioning correctly or not at > > >all. I have a manual and have the Sony part #s, but I understand > > >that Sony doesn't support this machine any more. Are these switches > > >still available? Are they rebuildable? Are the l.e.d.s sold > > >separately. > > >Any help that the forum could give would be greatly appreciated. > > >Thank you for your time, > > > > > > > > >Links about me, > > >My bio - > > > > http://www.johnwalshaudio.com/bio.h > tml > > >About LAVA Room Recording - > > >http://www.lavaroomrecording.com/ > > > > > >Thank you for your consideration, > > > > > >John Walsh > > >Chief Mastering Engineer > > >Lava Room Recording > > >1305 W. 80th St. Suite 1A > > >Cleveland Ohio,44102 > > >Office - 216-334-1172 > > >Cell - 216-326-6005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > I actually have many of the same problems with the remote. I think my problems have to do with dust, so I am planning on using compressed air to clean out the remote. If that does not work, I assume that since it is just a switch, a workable replacement can be made/found. Best, -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1402 From: "gricupito" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:26 pm Subject: Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? gricupito Offline Send Email I have an APR 5003 in excellent condition I might be willing to sell. It has less than 500hrs in the original un-relapped heads. It has never been toured and has been worked on by LADEWD. I have the machine, remote, stand, the testing card, original manuals/documentation, extra reels, and some virgin tape. I just don't use it as much as I expected to. This unit is loacted in Los Angeles. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1403 From: "Finney T. Tsai" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: Anybody selling an APR 5003? / RMD repair? tsai@... Send Email Hi there I am interested in getting your APR as well. Please let me know how much you ask for it? I am in San Jose. Thanks. -finney gricupito wrote: > > > I have an APR 5003 in excellent condition I might be willing to sell. > It has less than 500hrs in the original un-relapped heads. It has > never been toured and has been worked on by LADEWD. I have the > machine, remote, stand, the testing card, original > manuals/documentation, extra reels, and some virgin tape. I just don't > use it as much as I expected to. This unit is loacted in Los Angeles. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1404 From: "gabrieleponticiello" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:46 am Subject: SONY APR-16, 2" transport gabrielepont... Offline Send Email Hello APR/JH folks, this is my 1st post. I am currently looking into buying an analog multitrack recorder, possibly an MCI machine, around Europe (I live and work in Italy). I bumped into this SONY machine, which is kind of obscure to me, and I am intersted in comments from anyone willing to comment on it. The 16 track/2 inches format is appealing, isn't it? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-APR-16-16-Track-recorder-Magneto-16- piste_W0QQitemZ230216449935QQihZ013QQcategoryZ21775QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem Thanks in advance for your kind contribution. Gabe. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1405 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:50 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Gabe, This is indeed interesting. For those challenged in viewing the link, this is a shorter link to the same auction: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230216449935 First of all, I didn't know any of these were made, but it makes sense. I have what I believe to be the only 1-inch APR-16 for which I also have 1" 8T, 1/2" 8T, and 1/2" 4T record head assemblies. I also had JRF make me a dual-use play-only assembly that is either 1/2" 7T IRIG or 1/2" 16T. It is a wonderful machine, but I have a heap of APR-5000s which have lots of common parts as a source of spares. I don't know if Sony has any parts in Europe, but in North America I was treated very rudely by Sony Parts when enquiring about the remaining stock of APR parts (which I later found out were probably dumpstered). I'm not sure I could recommend getting this machine as parts sourcing will be difficult, but, on the other hand, it's a reasonable price. As you know, tape costs are also rising, and a new 2" reel of tape in the U.S. is about $230 for RMGI and $290 for ATR Magnetics at http://www.usrecordingmedia.com/2openreeltape.html I am concerned about all of the "As Is" caveats on this machine and the fact that the remote is lacking. You really cannot use the machine as a recorder w/o the remote. It would be a fine archival play only machine until it broke, but as-is, I would not attempt recording on it. In fact, I got out the remote for my APR-16 the first (and only) time I ever needed to record on it. The machine has served me well, and I've done some interesting projects with it, including an IRIG seismic tape and just completed five reels of 16T 1/2-inch transfers which I now have to run two-passes through my 8 Channels of Dolby C processing. Here's a link to my use for the seismic tape: http://www.geogrations.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop I bought this machine from another list member in about 2003 and it was in pristine condition. I'm not sure that the one in the listing is. What's the machine to the left in the photo? Is that for sale? Although that looks like some flavour of Studer A80 8-track. That might be at least slightly more maintanable. If you got the Sony, you'd want to hit it very hard as someone I know who bought a 1/2-inch 2T APR-5000 complained when he first turned it on (I suggested that he align it to 250 nWb/m) said it sounded "too digital" so I suggested he raise the record level. He did, and was apparently happy. I'm not really fond of tape as an effect, but somehow I appear to be in the minority in that regard. Cheers, Richard At 11:46 AM 2008-01-25, gabrieleponticiello wrote: >Hello APR/JH folks, >this is my 1st post. >I am currently looking into buying an analog multitrack recorder, >possibly an MCI machine, around Europe (I live and work in Italy). > >I bumped into this SONY machine, which is kind of obscure to me, and I >am intersted in comments from anyone willing to comment on it. > >The 16 track/2 inches format is appealing, isn't it? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-APR-16-16-Track-recorder-Magneto-16- >piste_W0QQitemZ230216449935QQihZ013QQcategoryZ21775QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr >dZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >Thanks in advance for your kind contribution. > >Gabe. > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1406 From: Dana White Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:00 pm Subject: remote for APR 5000 djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi All, Does anyone have an extra remote for a 5000? I was thinking I'd like to get some distance between my ear and the machine. What would be a fair price for one? Best regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1407 From: newmedia@... Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:35 am Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: The listing says "with remote control" and all those "as is" caveats are typical of European auctions. There are laws over there that block auctioneers from offering warranties, I believe. Best, Mark Stahlman New York City **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1408 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:11 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:50 PM 2008-01-25, I wrote: >For those challenged in viewing the link, this is a shorter link to >the same auction: >http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230216449935 > > >I am concerned about all of the "As Is" caveats on this machine and >the fact that the remote is lacking. I have been informed privately (thanks!) that it does say "with remote" though I'd like to see it in the photos and it also says "in normal working order" and apparently all the "as is" caveats are common in European auctions. So, as with all eBay "finds" buyer beware, but if you want a 16T machine and the remote is really included (please show a photo in the listing folks), and it's really in working order, and the heads aren't too worn, you might really like the sound. I like wider tracks (to a point) personally. Good luck! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1409 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:23 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard et al, If throwing good parts into the dumpster has you down, just know that Sony doesn't have the exclusive on this. AKG technicians routinely discard brass CK-12 capsules when "repairing" mics that unknowing customers send in. (The CK-12 is used in the C-12, C-24 and C414 (up to EB). It was also used in the Telefunken ELA M251. The original capsules can be re-skinned and, as varied as they may be, even the worst ones are generally better than the "nylon" capsules they are replaced with. eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1410 From: "twjjolly" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:47 pm Subject: Re: remote for APR 5000 twjjolly Offline Send Email Hi Dana, The remotes for the APR-5000 series are very hard to find unless it's being sold along with a complete machine. Go to the following links to see custom built APR-5000 series remote controllers. http://www.grssystems.com/item874.htm http://www.grssystems.com Regards, Ted --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Hi All, > Does anyone have an extra remote for a 5000? I was thinking I'd like > to get some distance between my ear and the machine. > What would be a fair price for one? > > Best regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 872-9478 Boston > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1411 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:03 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport jeffrey.chestek@... Send Email The last couple of mics I've had AKG repair, they've returned the bad capsules to us along with the repaired mic (no CK-12 capsules, tho...darn...) Jeff Chestek eddie ciletti wrote: > > Richard et al, > > If throwing good parts into the dumpster has you down, just know that > Sony doesn't have the exclusive on this. AKG technicians routinely > discard brass CK-12 capsules when "repairing" mics that unknowing > customers send in. (The CK-12 is used in the C-12, C-24 and C414 (up to > EB). It was also used in the Telefunken ELA M251. The original > capsules can be re-skinned and, as varied as they may be, even the worst > ones are generally better than the "nylon" capsules they are replaced > with. > > eddie ciletti > > > . > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1412 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:32 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport eddieaudio Offline Send Email Hello Jeff I know AKG service is way off topic, but how long ago? I spoke to a technician there just a few months ago and was told they throw the brass capsules in the trash. When I explained that even 'broken" they would fetch money on ebay, I was then told they could get fired for that. I even offered to buy them. Needless to say, I haven't heard a peep from them. eddie PS: Have you seen Joe Hannigan recently? Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1413 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:16 pm Subject: RE: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I know this is off topic, but I a ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] SONY APR-16, 2" transport At 02:50 PM 2008-01-25, I wrote: >For those challenged in viewing the link, this is a shorter link to >the same auction: >http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230216449935 > > >I am concerned about all of the "As Is" caveats on this machine and >the fact that the remote is lacking. I have been informed privately (thanks!) that it does say "with remote" though I'd like to see it in the photos and it also says "in normal working order" and apparently all the "as is" caveats are common in European auctions. So, as with all eBay "finds" buyer beware, but if you want a 16T machine and the remote is really included (please show a photo in the listing folks), and it's really in working order, and the heads aren't too worn, you might really like the sound. I like wider tracks (to a point) personally. Good luck! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1414 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:19 pm Subject: RE: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, I know this is off topic, but I need to have some 2" 24 track tapes conserved / digitized. Do you have any suggestions? I know that you don't do this.. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] SONY APR-16, 2" transport At 02:50 PM 2008-01-25, I wrote: >For those challenged in viewing the link, this is a shorter link to >the same auction: >http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230216449935 > > >I am concerned about all of the "As Is" caveats on this machine and >the fact that the remote is lacking. I have been informed privately (thanks!) that it does say "with remote" though I'd like to see it in the photos and it also says "in normal working order" and apparently all the "as is" caveats are common in European auctions. So, as with all eBay "finds" buyer beware, but if you want a 16T machine and the remote is really included (please show a photo in the listing folks), and it's really in working order, and the heads aren't too worn, you might really like the sound. I like wider tracks (to a point) personally. Good luck! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1415 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:21 pm Subject: RE: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..and sticky shed is a distinct possibility..... poor storage. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:19 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] SONY APR-16, 2" transport Richard, I know this is off topic, but I need to have some 2" 24 track tapes conserved / digitized. Do you have any suggestions? I know that you don't do this.. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:11 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] SONY APR-16, 2" transport At 02:50 PM 2008-01-25, I wrote: >For those challenged in viewing the link, this is a shorter link to >the same auction: >http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230216449935 > > > >I am concerned about all of the "As Is" caveats on this machine and >the fact that the remote is lacking. I have been informed privately (thanks!) that it does say "with remote" though I'd like to see it in the photos and it also says "in normal working order" and apparently all the "as is" caveats are common in European auctions. So, as with all eBay "finds" buyer beware, but if you want a 16T machine and the remote is really included (please show a photo in the listing folks), and it's really in working order, and the heads aren't too worn, you might really like the sound. I like wider tracks (to a point) personally. Good luck! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1416 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:30 pm Subject: OT: AKG service, and "inducing" obscolecence jeffrey.chestek@... Send Email We had to have the capsule in our C-12VR (re-issue) replaced maybe 6 months ago. AKG returned the bad one to us. And a few years ago the same story, the same mic.....NOT really happy with the reliability of the C-12VR. And considering how often we actually USE the mic.......(It's not anyone's favorite). Of course, this one isn't the holy grail of capsules either. I's really disappointing that they'll return bad new capsules, but not only won't return the valuable brass ones, and then trash them too....???! Reminds me of SSL, who recently discontinued support for the E series console, and dumbstered (typo, but it works!) a trailerfull of spares, to try and hasten the demise of the remaining E consoles. They apparently applied the lessons of the E series to the J series, which are FAR less reliable than the E. Sorry... venting..... ;-) Anywhoo...last time I saw Joe, he was recording the Concerto Soloists doing the score for a Tom and Jerry cartoon version of Nutcracker! Sounded great! He looks very much the same (I think he's got a portrait in the attic). Jeff eddie ciletti wrote: > > Hello Jeff > > I know AKG service is way off topic, but how long ago? I spoke to a > technician there just a few months ago and was told they throw the brass > capsules in the trash. When I explained that even 'broken" they would > fetch money on ebay, I was then told they could get fired for that. I > even offered to buy them. Needless to say, I haven't heard a peep from > them. > > eddie > > PS: Have you seen Joe Hannigan recently? > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1417 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:47 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport jeffrey.chestek@... Send Email Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes, but Steve Puntillo (http://www.sonicraft.com) looks like he's set up for 2" 24-track, and I know several VERY satisfied customers of his. He'll do an excellent job. There are still a lot of studios that have 2" machines around (heck, if you're in or near Philly, one of the places I work at has a nice Studer A800 that works quite well, and I can arrange baking too....don't have the refrigerated playback option though!) If you want to be around for the transfer, look around locally, if you don't mind shipping the tapes off to central Jersey (or live near there), contact Steve. Jeff Chestek Scott Phillips wrote: > > Richard, > > I know this is off topic, but I need to have some 2" 24 track tapes > conserved / digitized. Do you have any suggestions? I know that you > don't do this.. > > Scott > > _,___ Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1418 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:58 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:47 PM 2008-01-25, Jeff Chestek wrote: >Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes, but Steve Puntillo >(http://www.sonicraft.com) looks like he's set up for 2" 24-track, and I >know several VERY satisfied customers of his. He'll do an excellent job. Hi, Jeff, That was very nice of you to recommend Steve. In fact, I was just talking with Steve tonight about my nightmare transfer of some 16-track 1/2-inch tapes which I had originally asked the client to send to Steve, but the client wanted me to do it since he could drop the tapes off. No tones, no NR metadata. No NR sounds too bright, dbx I, Dolby C, and Dolby S all sound wrong. It was recorded on a Fostex G16 which implies Dolby C or nothing. Anyway, I had sent Steve Puntolillo's contact info to Scott off-list already. Steve will do a fantastic job with this. Sony APR content. I had JRF make me a special 1/2-inch head assembly for my APR-16 that can do two-screw interchange between IRIG 7-track tapes and 16 track with a Tascam head. The IRIG heads are Applied Magnetics, so they match in brand at least all the other head assemblies. The 16T head is a Tascam. With this project and the seismic project I did 18 months ago or so, I've finally paid for this head assembly. http://www.geogrations.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop The machine sounds great even with what 17-mil tracks! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1419 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:09 am Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@... wrote: > > The listing says "with remote control" and all those "as is" caveats are > typical of European auctions. There are laws over there that block auctioneers > from offering warranties, I believe. > > Best, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City Mark, Thats a picture of an APR24 on the eBay auction. Maybe it has a 16 track headstack, or maybe 8 channels don't work . Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1420 From: newmedia@... Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:06 am Subject: Re: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport radsimple Offline Send Email Cary: > Thats a picture of an APR24 on the eBay auction. The same seller also has TWO APR-24's for sale (w/ remotes in the photos.) Do the APR-16 and APR-24 look the same but just have different headstacks and # of cards? Mark Stahlman New York City **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1421 From: "Andrew Pennella" Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:02 am Subject: Sony APR 1/2 inch 2 track andy30ips Offline Send Email Anyone in New England have or know of a half inch two track APR for sale? Would drive or meet halfway to pick up - not interested in shipping. Thanks and HNY to all. Andy Pennella Milford, CT Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1422 From: Dana White Date: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:03 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 1/2 inch 2 track djwaudio Offline Send Email You might check PAD in Rockland, MA. Dave Nodif mentioned they had one recently, though it might be a 1/4". Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland On Jan 26, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Andrew Pennella wrote: > Anyone in New England have or know of a half inch two track APR for > sale? > Would drive or meet halfway to pick up - not interested in shipping. > > Thanks and HNY to all. > > Andy Pennella > Milford, CT > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1423 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:11 am Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ladewd Offline Send Email As far as I know, there was only one APR16 manufactured. It was a 1" 16 track. Richard has the only one ever built. Anything else you'll come across will be an APR24 with 16 track heads. That's why I joked about the possibility of it being an APR24 with 8 channels out. If the guy has a 16 trk headstack for it, they're probably MCI heads not the steel amorphous steel ones that the APR uses, unless they were custom made. In this case, he should have a spare 2" 24 track headstack for the machine as well. Ask the right questions, the auction doesn't look quite right to me. Serial number (on back panel along with year of manufacture), software version etc (this is displayed on the remote and transport display during power up. Ask him what kind of I/O connectors are on the machine. Ask him what color the rec ready LED's are. (They're amber). Let me know what he says on the other things. If he can't or doesn't want to answer any of these questions, I'd advise to walk away from it. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@... wrote: > > Cary: > > > Thats a picture of an APR24 on the eBay auction. > > The same seller also has TWO APR-24's for sale (w/ remotes in the photos.) > > Do the APR-16 and APR-24 look the same but just have different headstacks > and # of cards? > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1424 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:18 am Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ladewd Offline Send Email Mark, From what I can see in the photo, there is no meter board on meters 17-24 in the meter housing. It definitely is an APR24 with stuff pulled out of it. I wouldn't go for it. Ask him what he wants for the APR24. This way, you can use both 16 and 24 track heads if you want. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@... wrote: > > Cary: > > > Thats a picture of an APR24 on the eBay auction. > > The same seller also has TWO APR-24's for sale (w/ remotes in the photos.) > > Do the APR-16 and APR-24 look the same but just have different headstacks > and # of cards? > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1425 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:57 am Subject: Re: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport masteringman... Offline Send Email Cary wrote: > Ask the right questions, the auction doesn't look quite right to > me. snip Let me know what he says on the other things. If he can't > or doesn't want to answer any of these questions, I'd advise to walk > away from it. The seller is a well known European used pro equipment broker, Funky Junk. http://www.proaudioeurope.com/index.php?id=22&catId=2&gclid=CKfl1aKclpECFQppQgod\ _Uo4OQ As always some caution is advised. -- Best, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1426 From: "gabrieleponticiello" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 am Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport gabrielepont... Offline Send Email Cary, I also thought it could be a 24 track versions "reduced" to 16. Yes, it looks like the meters were there and later pulled out. Thank you for your great contribution, I will ask the guy. Still the point to me is maintenance and spare parts availability. I am aware there's an ocean in between US recording world and European and many things do not relate so easily. Speaking according to your experience, what would you say? In which technical way MCI JHs and SONY APRs relate to each other? What's a good resource to learn about history and different versions of MCI JHs? Thanks, Gabe. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > As far as I know, there was only one APR16 manufactured. It was a > 1" 16 track. Richard has the only one ever built. Anything else > you'll come across will be an APR24 with 16 track heads. That's why > I joked about the possibility of it being an APR24 with 8 channels > out. > > If the guy has a 16 trk headstack for it, they're probably MCI heads > not the steel amorphous steel ones that the APR uses, unless they > were custom made. In this case, he should have a spare 2" 24 track > headstack for the machine as well. > > Ask the right questions, the auction doesn't look quite right to > me. Serial number (on back panel along with year of manufacture), > software version etc (this is displayed on the remote and transport > display during power up. Ask him what kind of I/O connectors are on > the machine. Ask him what color the rec ready LED's are. (They're > amber). Let me know what he says on the other things. If he can't > or doesn't want to answer any of these questions, I'd advise to walk > away from it. > > > Cary > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@ wrote: > > > > Cary: > > > > > Thats a picture of an APR24 on the eBay auction. > > > > The same seller also has TWO APR-24's for sale (w/ remotes in the > photos.) > > > > Do the APR-16 and APR-24 look the same but just have different > headstacks > > and # of cards? > > > > Mark Stahlman > > New York City > > > > > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL > Music. > > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? > NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > > 48) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1427 From: "twjjolly" Date: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:58 pm Subject: Re: Remote Control switches for APR-24 twjjolly Offline Send Email Has anyone come up with a cross ref for these switches for the APR-24 remote? My back up stock is out! Do the PCM-3324 switches sub over? If so, what's the part numbers? Thanks, Ted --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Anyone know the cross reference for the switches in the Sony APR-24 > remote? The Sony part numbers are > > T9414-136-1 > T9414-137-1 > T9414-140-1 > > Also some of the related switch caps might be nice, too, especially > > T9453-910-1 > T9453-911-1 > T9453-912-1 > T9453-913-1 > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1428 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Feb 2, 2008 3:31 pm Subject: Re: SONY APR-16, 2" transport ladewd Offline Send Email Gabe, The MCI's and APR's were designed and built at the MCI factory in Ft. Lauderdale FL. The APR has some great features that are lacking in the JH series. Whether or not these are useful to you is another question. The APR's had a built in SMPTE synchronizer, features like auto punch in, will translate VITC time code to LTC, preset alignments, and above all they had an aluminum cast deck plate which is extremely stable. Tape path was easier to adjust and the heads had about 5X greater life. The problem with the APR is the availability of parts. There were many more JH24's built than APR's and many of the electronic parts used in the JH products are commonly available at most electronic companies. APR parts are hard to come by here in the States, but you may have better success dealing with Sony UK for parts. Sony pretty much disposed of all the excess APR parts when they shut the factory down. In some cases, Sony Canada and UK may have held on to parts for a longer time. They seemed to be more responsive to their customers than Sony in America was. Both machines can use heads from each other. The inductance is the same, but the contour of the head on the APR is slightly different. This results in a different low frequency bump between the two heads, but JH heads will work on an APR and visa versa. Probably the best resource for history and facts on both machines is right here. If you have any questions, just ask. There are a number of people here, including myself, who worked for both MCI and later, Sony, during the years these machines were produced. The more time passes, the less I remember, but between Scott and myself, I think we can answer many of the questions you may have. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gabrieleponticiello" wrote: > > Cary, > > I also thought it could be a 24 track versions "reduced" to 16. > Yes, it looks like the meters were there and later pulled out. > > Thank you for your great contribution, I will ask the guy. > > Still the point to me is maintenance and spare parts availability. > I am aware there's an ocean in between US recording world and European > and many things do not relate so easily. Speaking according to your > experience, what would you say? > > In which technical way MCI JHs and SONY APRs relate to each other? > What's a good resource to learn about history and different versions > of MCI JHs? > > Thanks, Gabe. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1429 From: "analogstudio7" Date: Sun Feb 3, 2008 1:27 am Subject: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help analogstudio7 Offline Send Email Hello, I just joined the group today after receiving a really nice APR-24. This machine is in really good condition with a great head report. Everything seems to be working OK except for one thing. The JOG / SHUTTLE wheel when engaged starts the reels spinning. There is not cetering the wheel to gets the reels to stop. Is there a trim to ceter the Jog wheel. I can't find one in the manual schematics. So maybe there isn't one. If not, what is the solution? Anybody know? Thanks for any help. Glad to be amember here! Cheers, Greg Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1430 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 12:56 am Subject: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help ladewd Offline Send Email The jog shuttle wheel is a disk with many small paddles on the end of it. There are 2 photocells which sense the paddle's velocity and direction. If one photocell is out, it will always go in the same direction. Is this what you're experiencing? Sony still has replacement wheels since the same assembly is used on the BVW-75 Betacam machine which was extremely popular. I can't specifically remember a centering adjustment on the APR24. I know the 5000's had an adjustment but that was a pot, not an optical wheel. I used to have the complete operation standards for building and aligning of those machines, but I'm pretty sure I tossed it a few years ago. Let me ask a friend, and I'll get back to you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "analogstudio7" wrote: > > Hello, > > I just joined the group today after receiving a really nice APR-24. > > This machine is in really good condition with a great head report. > Everything seems to be working OK except for one thing. The JOG / > SHUTTLE wheel when engaged starts the reels spinning. There is not > cetering the wheel to gets the reels to stop. > > Is there a trim to ceter the Jog wheel. I can't find one in the manual > schematics. So maybe there isn't one. If not, what is the solution? > Anybody know? > > Thanks for any help. Glad to be amember here! > > Cheers, > > Greg > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1431 From: analogstudio7@... Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 8:41 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help analogstudio7 Offline Send Email Hey Cary, Thanks for the help. I was able to take my remote over to another studio in town that I used to work at. The have an APR-24 and so I tried my remote on their machine. Same problem. So the problem IS in my remote unit. Their tech took my Jog wheel and connected it to their remote unit and it worked fine without any problem. Then the tech took his jog wheel and tried it in my remote and the problem was still there. So it appears that the problem is somewhere in my remote's electronics on the main PCB. But that is a far as we were able to go. They didn't have the time to help me anymore, so now I am back on my own again. But at least I know more than when I first posted. So, anyone got any suggestions as to where to look next. I'm not a tech, but I have re-capped many channel strips and solder hundreds of cables. But I tried my best looking at the schematics in the manual to see where the signal goes and what happens to it. It looks like the jog wheel 'center' signal goes to the IC number 10 and then to # 37 and then I'm lost from here. Is there a technical circuit explanation that exists for these machines? My old 3M M79 had all of the theory of the operation and how the electronics worked. It was a great resource. Nothing like the APR-24 manual I have, which is VERY thin (in size and in information)! Any further help is appreciated. Cheers, Greg In a message dated 2/4/2008 9:56:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: The jog shuttle wheel is a disk with many small paddles on the end of it. There are 2 photocells which sense the paddle's velocity and direction. If one photocell is out, it will always go in the same direction. Is this what you're experiencing? Sony still has replacement wheels since the same assembly is used on the BVW-75 Betacam machine which was extremely popular. I can't specifically remember a centering adjustment on the APR24. I know the 5000's had an adjustment but that was a pot, not an optical wheel. I used to have the complete operation standards for building and aligning of those machines, but I'm pretty sure I tossed it a few years ago. Let me ask a friend, and I'll get back to you. Cary --- In _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) , "analogstudio7" wrote: > > Hello, > > I just joined the group today after receiving a really nice APR-24. > > This machine is in really good condition with a great head report. > Everything seems to be working OK except for one thing. The JOG / > SHUTTLE wheel when engaged starts the reels spinning. There is not > cetering the wheel to gets the reels to stop. > > Is there a trim to ceter the Jog wheel. I can't find one in the manual > schematics. So maybe there isn't one. If not, what is the solution? > Anybody know? > > Thanks for any help. Glad to be amember here! > > Cheers, > > Greg > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1432 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 11:31 am Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:41 AM 2008-02-05, analogstudio7@... wrote: > >Is there a technical circuit explanation that exists for these machines? My >old 3M M79 had all of the theory of the operation and how the electronics >worked. It was a great resource. Nothing like the APR-24 manual I >have, which is >VERY thin (in size and in information)! Hi, Greg, I don't have any specifics for you, but I have a partial cure for the thin APR-24 manual, the APR-5000 manual. It is MUCH thicker. Now the APR-5000 is not the same as the APR-24, but it has many similarities. Unfortunately, the remote and the jog wheel are not in those similarities. But, while you're thinking of it, I'd strongly urge you to grab the scans of the APR-5000 manual for your archive. There are three files here. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1433 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 12:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig, I refurbish analog Sony betacam machines. If the part is the same, I can either give you the Sony part number or find a nice " preowned " one in my spare parts storage area. However, there is a company here in West Palm Beach, Florida that I have been doing business with since they opened in 1985 ( fellow natives of Cleveland, Ohio ). The company is called Amp Services. ( Chris & John own the company ). Their phone number is 1-561-333-0335. They have been rebuilding MCI machines forever and perhaps they can help out with the Sony APR machines as well. Thank you, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "ladewd" : -------------- The jog shuttle wheel is a disk with many small paddles on the end of it. There are 2 photocells which sense the paddle's velocity and direction. If one photocell is out, it will always go in the same direction. Is this what you're experiencing? Sony still has replacement wheels since the same assembly is used on the BVW-75 Betacam machine which was extremely popular. I can't specifically remember a centering adjustment on the APR24. I know the 5000's had an adjustment but that was a pot, not an optical wheel. I used to have the complete operation standards for building and aligning of those machines, but I'm pretty sure I tossed it a few years ago. Let me ask a friend, and I'll get back to you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "analogstudio7" wrote: > > Hello, > > I just joined the group today after receiving a really nice APR-24. > > This machine is in really good condition with a great head report. > Everything seems to be working OK except for one thing. The JOG / > SHUTTLE wheel when engaged starts the reels spinning. There is not > cetering the wheel to gets the reels to stop. > > Is there a trim to ceter the Jog wheel. I can't find one in the manual > schematics. So maybe there isn't one. If not, what is the solution? > Anybody know? > > Thanks for any help. Glad to be amember here! > > Cheers, > > Greg > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1434 From: analogstudio7@... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help analogstudio7 Offline Send Email Hi Richard, Thanks for the info. I have an APR-5003 manual (and a couple of APR-5003's) and yes, the manual does help fill in some gaps. Unfortunately as you said, it does not contain any useful info that helps me with my Jog circuit problem on the APR-24. Thanks again for the help! Cheers, Greg In a message dated 2/5/2008 8:36:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, arclists@... writes: At 01:41 AM 2008-02-05, _analogstudio7@analogs_ (mailto:analogstudio7@...) wrote: > >Is there a technical circuit explanation that exists for these machines? My >old 3M M79 had all of the theory of the operation and how the electronics >worked. It was a great resource. Nothing like the APR-24 manual I >have, which is >VERY thin (in size and in information)V Hi, Greg, I don't have any specifics for you, but I have a partial cure for the thin APR-24 manual, the APR-5000 manual. It is MUCH thicker. Now the APR-5000 is not the same as the APR-24, but it has many similarities. Unfortunately, the remote and the jog wheel are not in those similarities. But, while you're thinking of it, I'd strongly urge you to grab the scans of the APR-5000 manual for your archive. There are three files here. _http://www.richardhhttp://www.r_ (http://www.richardhess.net/apr/) username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1435 From: analogstudio7@... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:19 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help analogstudio7 Offline Send Email Hi Craig, Thanks for the info and the AMP contact info. I will keep this info at hand while I continue to try to sort this out on my own and hopefully learn some new things in the process about the APR remote! In one of my previous reports, I emailed the group that I did try another Jog wheel unit in my remote and it still had the same non-centering, continued rewind reel spinning problem. So we know that our Jog wheel unit and electronic board is OK. The problem is somewhere in the remote's main PCB electronics. The search continues! Cheers, Greg In a message dated 2/5/2008 10:17:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, c.tayerle@... writes: Hi, this is Craig, I refurbish analog Sony betacam machines. If the part is the same, I can either give you the Sony part number or find a nice " preowned " one in my spare parts storage area. However, there is a company here in West Palm Beach, Florida that I have been doing business with since they opened in 1985 ( fellow natives of Cleveland, Ohio ). The company is called Amp Services. ( Chris & John own the company ). Their phone number is 1-561-333-0335. They have been rebuilding MCI machines forever and perhaps they can help out with the Sony APR machines as well. Thank you, Craig T. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1436 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:20 am Subject: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help ladewd Offline Send Email Greg, I have a question. Does the jog shuttle on the machine work ok? Am I to understand that it is just the one on the remote that's causing the problem? I'm pretty sure I still have a manual around, but I had a little accident working on my new studio and broke my leg. I'll see if I can get into the garage to get the schematics. Have you ever used an oscilloscope? If this isn't practical, you can start replacing IC's in the chain. Give me a day or two to find the schematic, and I'll look at it. It's been quite a while. Where are you located? Maybe we can talk on the phone. At the moment, I don't have a working scanner, so I can't get the schematic to you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, analogstudio7@... wrote: > > Hey Cary, > > Thanks for the help. > > I was able to take my remote over to another studio in town that I used to > work at. The have an APR-24 and so I tried my remote on their machine. Same > problem. So the problem IS in my remote unit. > > Their tech took my Jog wheel and connected it to their remote unit and it > worked fine without any problem. Then the tech took his jog wheel and tried it > in my remote and the problem was still there. > > So it appears that the problem is somewhere in my remote's electronics on > the main PCB. But that is a far as we were able to go. They didn't have the time > to help me anymore, so now I am back on my own again. But at least I know > more than when I first posted. > > So, anyone got any suggestions as to where to look next. I'm not a tech, but > I have re-capped many channel strips and solder hundreds of cables. But I > tried my best looking at the schematics in the manual to see where the signal > goes and what happens to it. It looks like the jog wheel 'center' signal goes > to the IC number 10 and then to # 37 and then I'm lost from here. > > Is there a technical circuit explanation that exists for these machines? My > old 3M M79 had all of the theory of the operation and how the electronics > worked. It was a great resource. Nothing like the APR-24 manual I have, which is > VERY thin (in size and in information)! > > Any further help is appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Greg > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1437 From: analogstudio7@... Date: Sat Feb 9, 2008 9:57 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help analogstudio7 Offline Send Email Hi Cary, Wow, sorry about your broken leg! I hope you're doing OK...and please don't go out of your way on my count. I slipped off of a 32 ft. ladder in our studio and ruptured a disc in my back after hitting a work table on the way down. So I feel your pain buddy! Anyway, to answer your questions... The jog wheel problem is only on one remote in the main electronics PCB. The actual jog wheel assembly and its little PCB work fine in another remote. I have a scope that I use all the time for simple alignments and working on my ham radio gear. I am a novice at it, but I do OK. I have the APR-24 manual and schematics...although I'm not great at reading them with all the 'grouping' of the circuits. I know it reduces the clutter, but darn hard to read them! So you don't need to worry about scanning them. Thanks for that offer! I'm located in Orange County, CA in the city of Lake Forest. Anyway, like I said, please don't go out of your way to try to help in your condition. The jog wheel is an inconvenience at most. Not a necessity, but will be nice to have use of it ! Thanks much! Greg In a message dated 2/9/2008 9:21:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ladewd@... writes: Greg, I have a question. Does the jog shuttle on the machine work ok? Am I to understand that it is just the one on the remote that's causing the problem? I'm pretty sure I still have a manual around, but I had a little accident working on my new studio and broke my leg. I'll see if I can get into the garage to get the schematics. Have you ever used an oscilloscope? If this isn't practical, you can start replacing IC's in the chain. Give me a day or two to find the schematic, and I'll look at it. It's been quite a while. Where are you located? Maybe we can talk on the phone. At the moment, I don't have a working scanner, so I can't get the schematic to you. Cary --- In _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) , analogstudio7@, anal > > Hey Cary, > > Thanks for the help. > > I was able to take my remote over to another studio in town that I used to > work at. The have an APR-24 and so I tried my remote on their machine. Same > problem. So the problem IS in my remote unit. > > Their tech took my Jog wheel and connected it to their remote unit and it > worked fine without any problem. Then the tech took his jog wheel and tried it > in my remote and the problem was still there. > > So it appears that the problem is somewhere in my remote's electronics on > the main PCB. But that is a far as we were able to go. They didn't have the time > to help me anymore, so now I am back on my own again. But at least I know > more than when I first posted. > > So, anyone got any suggestions as to where to look next. I'm not a tech, but > I have re-capped many channel strips and solder hundreds of cables. But I > tried my best looking at the schematics in the manual to see where the signal > goes and what happens to it. It looks like the jog wheel 'center' signal goes > to the IC number 10 and then to # 37 and then I'm lost from here. > > Is there a technical circuit explanation that exists for these machines? My > old 3M M79 had all of the theory of the operation and how the electronics > worked. It was a great resource. Nothing like the APR-24 manual I have, which is > VERY thin (in size and in information) > > Any further help is appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Greg > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\ 5 48) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1438 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:14 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 New Owner Needs Help ladewd Offline Send Email Greg, You're not terribly far from me. I live up in Santa Clarita near Magic Mountain. Anyway, let me see what I can come up with and I'll get back with you. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, analogstudio7@... wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > Wow, sorry about your broken leg! I hope you're doing OK...and please don't > go out of your way on my count. I slipped off of a 32 ft. ladder in our > studio and ruptured a disc in my back after hitting a work table on the way down. > So I feel your pain buddy! > > Anyway, to answer your questions... > > The jog wheel problem is only on one remote in the main electronics PCB. The > actual jog wheel assembly and its little PCB work fine in another remote. > > I have a scope that I use all the time for simple alignments and working on > my ham radio gear. I am a novice at it, but I do OK. > > I have the APR-24 manual and schematics...although I'm not great at reading > them with all the 'grouping' of the circuits. I know it reduces the clutter, > but darn hard to read them! So you don't need to worry about scanning them. > Thanks for that offer! > > I'm located in Orange County, CA in the city of Lake Forest. > > Anyway, like I said, please don't go out of your way to try to help in your > condition. The jog wheel is an inconvenience at most. Not a necessity, but > will be nice to have use of it ! > > Thanks much! > > Greg > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (10 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1439 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:27 pm Subject: Library Wind tape modes and long-term tape storage richardlhess Offline Send Email Was any research undertaken at Sony about proper winding profiles that optimize the long-term storage of magnetic tapes? I have written about why I'm questioning this here http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/02/15/winding-tapes-for-long-term-storage/ The short summary is that constant tension wind may exacerbate spoking and interlayer slip of tape. There's some pretty deep math in the Bhushan book cited in the blog entry. Since the APR-5000 uses calculated tension rather than sensed tension on the takeup reel, is the tension profile adjusted to provide lower takeup tension as the tape diameter grows? This would make the APR-5000 an ideal winding transport if this were the case. The spoked tape at the link below was produced on another calculated-takeup-tension machine, the Studer A807. http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/05/17/let-sleeping-tapes-liewhat-to-do-with-po\ orly-wound-tapes/ (this might get broken: here is the short version: http://tinyurl.com/3cacvn Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1440 From: "petersinnett" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:23 am Subject: Sony APR 5000 - Help petersinnett Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1441 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:03 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, I saw that one Ebay, nice looking machine but shame about the rollers, if I didn't have the PCM-3402 along with 12 other large tank reel to reels, I would have gone for it myself. I have not seen anyone breaking one up yet though, I have seen a few sell in the states, it may be worth keeping an eye on that too for spares. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: 25 February 2008 12:24 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1442 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:18 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hello, I saw that one Ebay, nice looking machine but shame about the rollers, if I didn't have the PCM-3402 along with 12 other large tank reel to reels, I would have gone for it myself. I have not seen anyone breaking one up yet though, I have seen a few sell in the states, it may be worth keeping an eye on that too for spares. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: 25 February 2008 12:24 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1443 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:21 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..or maybe John French at JRF might be able to help find you some. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:19 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help ..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hello, I saw that one Ebay, nice looking machine but shame about the rollers, if I didn't have the PCM-3402 along with 12 other large tank reel to reels, I would have gone for it myself. I have not seen anyone breaking one up yet though, I have seen a few sell in the states, it may be worth keeping an eye on that too for spares. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: 25 February 2008 12:24 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1444 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:07 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, Here is a question I have yet to resolve. Early APR-5000 machines had one-piece rolling guides. Later machines had two-piece (with the inverted cup). Will the one-piece assemblies fit all machines, or are the internals different? I haven't looked, was hoping you'd know. I would be more interested in disposing of the one-piece (1/4-inch-only) hardware than the 1/4-1/2-inch modifiable ones. Also, would anyone have top plates for the 1/2-inch configuration? I had JRF make me a set out of 1/4-inch cups, but they are too tight. So how many APRs were made? They were produced from 85-91 at least. 1000 machines per year? (I have 28, I think, in various states of (dis) repair). Cheers, Richard At 09:18 PM 2008-02-25, Scott wrote: >..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has >what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers >that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1445 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:16 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Truth be known, I'm not sure anymore. Cary might remember...Cary, are you lurking while you nurse your leg..? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:07 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi, Scott, Here is a question I have yet to resolve. Early APR-5000 machines had one-piece rolling guides. Later machines had two-piece (with the inverted cup). Will the one-piece assemblies fit all machines, or are the internals different? I haven't looked, was hoping you'd know. I would be more interested in disposing of the one-piece (1/4-inch-only) hardware than the 1/4-1/2-inch modifiable ones. Also, would anyone have top plates for the 1/2-inch configuration? I had JRF make me a set out of 1/4-inch cups, but they are too tight. So how many APRs were made? They were produced from 85-91 at least. 1000 machines per year? (I have 28, I think, in various states of (dis) repair). Cheers, Richard At 09:18 PM 2008-02-25, Scott wrote: >..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has >what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers >that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1446 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:17 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I don't think production was ever that high.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:07 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi, Scott, Here is a question I have yet to resolve. Early APR-5000 machines had one-piece rolling guides. Later machines had two-piece (with the inverted cup). Will the one-piece assemblies fit all machines, or are the internals different? I haven't looked, was hoping you'd know. I would be more interested in disposing of the one-piece (1/4-inch-only) hardware than the 1/4-1/2-inch modifiable ones. Also, would anyone have top plates for the 1/2-inch configuration? I had JRF make me a set out of 1/4-inch cups, but they are too tight. So how many APRs were made? They were produced from 85-91 at least. 1000 machines per year? (I have 28, I think, in various states of (dis) repair). Cheers, Richard At 09:18 PM 2008-02-25, Scott wrote: >..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has >what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers >that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1447 From: "TROY V. COLLINS" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:12 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help victortprodu... Offline Send Email I HAVE ONE FOR SALE $750 Scott Phillips wrote: ..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hello, I saw that one Ebay, nice looking machine but shame about the rollers, if I didn't have the PCM-3402 along with 12 other large tank reel to reels, I would have gone for it myself. I have not seen anyone breaking one up yet though, I have seen a few sell in the states, it may be worth keeping an eye on that too for spares. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: 25 February 2008 12:24 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1448 From: "petersinnett" Date: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:06 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help petersinnett Offline Send Email Hi Richard / Scott, Interesting to read your comments. I have consulted my manuals for the APR and found a few points to consider... On pages (10-7 to 10-10) of part3 'Operations and maintenance' First edition - dated 1989 -... There is no reference at all to the 5002H (the 1/2" one), as to any modded or different parts or numbers. The base assembly for the 'timer' roller is the same for early and late models. However, as the early roller parts are different, I would also need the roller collar, (fixed to the post by the small screw) to mate with the early model assembly. Looking at the manual leads me to believe that the early assembly should work on the later models, but perhaps not as well. I wonder if the modified timer roller was to do with using it for a 1/2" conversion, or whether it was just not reliable or because of some other reason. The 5003v I have is a 1/4" model and I have no plan or desire to change it to 1/2". So I would be very interested in buying the rollers (Timer and 'T'), even if it was from an early one. I guess this request is aimed at Richard, as he seems to be the man with the parts. I do understand Richard's view on parting with the later model parts, particularly if 1/2" conversions were being considered for some time in the future. It would seem that there were relatively few machines actually made, and even less spare parts. Clearly I would prefer the later model parts, as the compatibility issue is non existent, but I would still be content to get it working, even at the risk of some issue, as yet unforeseen with the earlier part. Richard, if you would consider selling me the 2 rollers, please Email me off list and perhaps we can do a deal. Regards, Peter. ______________________________________________________________________ --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Scott, > > Here is a question I have yet to resolve. > > Early APR-5000 machines had one-piece rolling guides. Later machines > had two-piece (with the inverted cup). Will the one-piece assemblies > fit all machines, or are the internals different? I haven't looked, > was hoping you'd know. > > I would be more interested in disposing of the one-piece > (1/4-inch-only) hardware than the 1/4-1/2-inch modifiable ones. > > Also, would anyone have top plates for the 1/2-inch configuration? I > had JRF make me a set out of 1/4-inch cups, but they are too tight. > > So how many APRs were made? They were produced from 85-91 at least. > 1000 machines per year? (I have 28, I think, in various states of > (dis) repair). > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > At 09:18 PM 2008-02-25, Scott wrote: > >..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has > >what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers > >that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1449 From: "TROY V. COLLINS" Date: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:32 am Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 - Help victortprodu... Offline Send Email NO THIS IS NOT ON EBAY SONY 2TRACK $750 "TROY V. COLLINS" wrote: I HAVE ONE FOR SALE $750 Scott Phillips wrote: ..perhaps Richard can be persuaded to sell a couple of rollers. He has what has to be an entire year's production of APR's. A couple of rollers that just need bearings, perhaps... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:04 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hello, I saw that one Ebay, nice looking machine but shame about the rollers, if I didn't have the PCM-3402 along with 12 other large tank reel to reels, I would have gone for it myself. I have not seen anyone breaking one up yet though, I have seen a few sell in the states, it may be worth keeping an eye on that too for spares. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: 25 February 2008 12:24 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 - Help Hi Guys, I have just bought an Apr-5003V, which is in pretty good order, EXCEPT, it is missing a couple of tape roller guides. Does anyone have either or both of these that I could buy from them, to get this machine fully operational? Or does anyone know where I might be able to source the parts? The ones I am looking for are....#1 The 'Timer' roller, and #2 the 'T' guide/roller. The timer roller is the one nearest to the front of the APR. The 'T' roller is the one just past the capstan. The components I need are all the bits that can be removed, by hand, from these 2 posts, (no tools required to remove). I believe that any of the quarter inch APR-5000 series models are suitable, although you experts may know differently. Peter Sinnett (In the UK). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1450 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Mar 1, 2008 1:00 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Truth be known, I'm not sure anymore. Cary might remember...Cary, are > you lurking while you nurse your leg..? The assemblies were rather different, but the shaft size is the same. Its a bit of work, but you can update the single roller to the split design rather easily **if you have the parts**. I've been unsuccessfully looking for the 1/2" roller parts for years now. I'm back at work and my damn shoulders, armpits and fingers are suffering from "crutchitis". I haven't been at the computer much these days as you all can see. It also looks like knee surgery is coming soon. Richard, What specific question do you have about the rollers? Also in regards to your other question about the library wind mode, I can only assume the calculated take up tensions are correct. I seem to remember the tensions being a bit lighter when in slow wind. It had to be this way due to the synchronizing capabilities of the machine. At this stage in the game, there is no one left to ask. When I'm feeling better, I will get out my tentelometer and try and verify this for you. I missed the annual SPPC (Sony Professional Products Company) reunion last week in Florida due to my injury. Good thing I didn't purchase my tickets too far in advance. I may have been able to find out some more stuff about it. There were a few engineers there, but mostly sales, production and support folks. Each year, more folks join in. I understand this year, Jeep's widow, Carla, was there. Maybe next year, we'll see even more of the old crew. Barring any complications, I definitely plan to attend the next one and I'm sure my list of technical questions will be a bit longer. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1451 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Mar 1, 2008 1:09 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Scott, >> > So how many APRs were made? They were produced from 85-91 at least. > 1000 machines per year? (I have 28, I think, in various states of > (dis) repair). Richard, The APR's were generally built in lots of 30 monthly. Of course there were smaller and larger lots as sales dictated. The average would be about 360 units each year of production. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1452 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Mar 2, 2008 7:41 am Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Cary, I didn't know about the reunion... when is it held? I'd love to go next year... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Truth be known, I'm not sure anymore. Cary might remember...Cary, are > you lurking while you nurse your leg..? The assemblies were rather different, but the shaft size is the same. Its a bit of work, but you can update the single roller to the split design rather easily **if you have the parts**. I've been unsuccessfully looking for the 1/2" roller parts for years now. I'm back at work and my damn shoulders, armpits and fingers are suffering from "crutchitis". I haven't been at the computer much these days as you all can see. It also looks like knee surgery is coming soon. Richard, What specific question do you have about the rollers? Also in regards to your other question about the library wind mode, I can only assume the calculated take up tensions are correct. I seem to remember the tensions being a bit lighter when in slow wind. It had to be this way due to the synchronizing capabilities of the machine. At this stage in the game, there is no one left to ask. When I'm feeling better, I will get out my tentelometer and try and verify this for you. I missed the annual SPPC (Sony Professional Products Company) reunion last week in Florida due to my injury. Good thing I didn't purchase my tickets too far in advance. I may have been able to find out some more stuff about it. There were a few engineers there, but mostly sales, production and support folks. Each year, more folks join in. I understand this year, Jeep's widow, Carla, was there. Maybe next year, we'll see even more of the old crew. Barring any complications, I definitely plan to attend the next one and I'm sure my list of technical questions will be a bit longer. Cary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1453 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Mar 4, 2008 11:16 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5000 - Help ladewd Offline Send Email I still keep in touch with Tom Graefe. Marlene Sceracini organized it and it was at Dennis Sindrey's house. I'll keep you posted when the next one is scheduled. Henry Jablonski was at last year's reunion (another one I missed). There's no hard fast rule as to when its scheduled. When I get home, I'll send you some pictures. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > Cary, > > I didn't know about the reunion... when is it held? I'd love to go next > year... > > Scott Reply | Messages in this Topic (14 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1454 From: "Alan DiCato" Date: Thu Mar 6, 2008 1:47 pm Subject: APR-24 manual ajd454 Offline Send Email Gents, I recently purchased an APR-24 for my studio and immediately found and joined the user group. It's been great to hear what others are doing and to follow along in the problem solving process. I have the entire APR-24 Operation and Maintenance Manual, 2nd edition in PDF form (137 pages total). I'd like to make it available to anyone in the group that might need it. Let me know the best way to set it up if there is an interest. It is about 30MB total. Also, there are a couple things that my APR is in need of and I'm hoping someone can help out. 1) One of the steel roller guides has a noisy bearing that needs replaced. Is there a source for parts? 2) My APR is missing one of the channel cards. Does anyone have one that I might be able to purchase? Thanks so much for any guidance. Alan DiCato Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1455 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 9:01 am Subject: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, all, A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1456 From: "Joshua Smith" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 2:26 pm Subject: Re: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual rockitrecord... Offline Send Email If it's in PDF form I'd appreciate it too! Joshua Smith On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > Hello, all, > > A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... > ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. > > Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). > > If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1457 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:08 pm Subject: RE: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I as well... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Smith Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:26 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Cc: otari_equipment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual If it's in PDF form I'd appreciate it too! Joshua Smith On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Richard L. Hess > wrote: > Hello, all, > > A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... > ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. > > Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). > > If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1458 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:11 pm Subject: RE: APR-24 manual ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I would be interested, to be sure... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan DiCato Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:48 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-24 manual Gents, I recently purchased an APR-24 for my studio and immediately found and joined the user group. It's been great to hear what others are doing and to follow along in the problem solving process. I have the entire APR-24 Operation and Maintenance Manual, 2nd edition in PDF form (137 pages total). I'd like to make it available to anyone in the group that might need it. Let me know the best way to set it up if there is an interest. It is about 30MB total. Also, there are a couple things that my APR is in need of and I'm hoping someone can help out. 1) One of the steel roller guides has a noisy bearing that needs replaced. Is there a source for parts? 2) My APR is missing one of the channel cards. Does anyone have one that I might be able to purchase? Thanks so much for any guidance. Alan DiCato [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1459 From: "Finney T. Tsai" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:28 pm Subject: Re: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual tsai@... Send Email I have a complete manual set for MTR-15, including schematics, the supplement for the special x model, etc. Unfortunately it has many folded pages. Xeroxing or scanning will be a daunting task. Any suggestion? Am in the process of modding one MTR-15. This thing is the most complicated 2 track machine I have ever seen. -finney Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hello, all, > > A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... > > ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. > > Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). > > If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1460 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 7:36 pm Subject: Re: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I did not know that an Otari Group existed on Yahoo. I have an Otari MX-5050 series machine which is a Four Channel unit using half inch tape. I do not remember the complete model number since I have kept it in climate controlled storage. The electronics are mounted in an overbridge and the transport is mounted horizontally. The machine is virtually brand new. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Many Thanks, Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Finney T. Tsai" : -------------- I have a complete manual set for MTR-15, including schematics, the supplement for the special x model, etc. Unfortunately it has many folded pages. Xeroxing or scanning will be a daunting task. Any suggestion? Am in the process of modding one MTR-15. This thing is the most complicated 2 track machine I have ever seen. -finney Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hello, all, > > A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... > > ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. > > Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). > > If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1461 From: "David B. Levinson" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 9:47 pm Subject: RE: Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual david522235 Offline Send Email Call Otari USA Sales in California at 818-734-1785. I have an MTR-15 and love it. David Levinson Newport Beach, CA 949-903-3455 cell From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:09 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual I as well... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Joshua Smith Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:26 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Cc: otari_equipment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Looking for Otari MTR-15 manual If it's in PDF form I'd appreciate it too! Joshua Smith On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Richard L. Hess > wrote: > Hello, all, > > A friend of mine, Bob Williams ( mailto:bob@... > ) is looking for an Otari MTR-15 manual. > > Please reply directly to him (and copy me if you wish). > > If it's available in PDF format, I'd love a copy, too. > > Thanks! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1462 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 12:35 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still working as such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages and trips out. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1463 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:06 pm Subject: Re: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Stuart I'm sure you'd want a direct replacement, but perhaps you might find something here... http://www.optekinc.com/products/magnetic_hall.asp > Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of > these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony > branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken > Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still > working as > such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages > and trips out. > > Cheers for any help. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1464 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 2:22 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers for that but sadly, that site has 3 legged hall effect's, I need a quad hall effect chip, I haven't found one to match the DM211, hoping that someone has one from another machine or a spare one off a spare board? Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: 09 March 2008 18:06 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Stuart I'm sure you'd want a direct replacement, but perhaps you might find something here... http://www.optekinc.com/products/magnetic_hall.asp > Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of > these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony > branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken > Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still > working as > such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages > and trips out. > > Cheers for any help. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1322 - Release Date: 3/9/2008 12:17 PM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1465 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 7:29 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have two BVH-2500 units on their way from Ventura, California to West Palm Beach, Florida. One is in mint shape and the other is a parts unit. When I receive them, I will see if the parts machine has what you need. It is a newer machine than the 2000, basically the same, but has the Delta T 60 frame record/playback feature. I am also looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a dear friend of mine ) and an original service manual for a Pioneer SX-1980 receiver. I know that the Pioneer is a consumer unit, but I was outbid in the last few seconds on a manual for it which makes the quest even more " important ". Many Thanks! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still working as such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages and trips out. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1466 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sun Mar 9, 2008 11:37 pm Subject: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi Craig -- c.tayerle@... wrote: > I am also > looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a > dear friend of mine ) I've posted it for you: http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf Rename them as you please. Please tell me when you've gotten them so I can reclaim the space. Best, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1467 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:48 am Subject: Re: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Steve, I have received it, but will not be able to print it until Wednesday, 3/10/08. Will that be okay? Please let me know. I have to print it out at work and the computer here at home is marginal even for basic functions. If you need the space in the meantime, I understand. Many Thanks! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" : -------------- Hi Craig -- c.tayerle@... wrote: > I am also > looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a > dear friend of mine ) I've posted it for you: http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf Rename them as you please. Please tell me when you've gotten them so I can reclaim the space. Best, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1468 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:29 am Subject: Re: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) eddieaudio Offline Send Email Steve The ATR-700 was a tascam machine and while I forget the model number off hand, once that correlation was made, tascam might still have it. You can email parts@... once you figure out the model number. eddie > Hi Craig -- > > c.tayerle@... wrote: > > > I am also > > looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a > > dear friend of mine ) > > I've posted it for you: > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > Rename them as you please. Please tell me when you've gotten them so I can > reclaim the space. > > Best, > > -- Steve > > ======================================================== > Steve Puntolillo > Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > http://www.sonicraft.com > ======================================================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008 11:07 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1469 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:33 am Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi Craig -- > Hi Steve, I have received it, but will not be able to print > it until Wednesday, 3/10/08. Will that be okay? Please let me > know. I have to print it out at work and the computer here at > home is marginal even for basic functions. If you need the > space in the meantime, I understand. I can wait until you're sure you've got it. Please email me off list after you have it printed out and I'll clear the space then. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" > : -------------- > > Hi Craig -- > > c.tayerle@... wrote: > > > I am also > > looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a > > dear friend of mine ) > > I've posted it for you: > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > Rename them as you please. Please tell me when you've gotten > them so I can reclaim the space. > > Best, > > -- Steve > > ======================================================== > Steve Puntolillo > Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > http://www.sonicraft.com > ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1470 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:29 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers, that would be a great help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 09 March 2008 23:30 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have two BVH-2500 units on their way from Ventura, California to West Palm Beach, Florida. One is in mint shape and the other is a parts unit. When I receive them, I will see if the parts machine has what you need. It is a newer machine than the 2000, basically the same, but has the Delta T 60 frame record/playback feature. I am also looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a dear friend of mine ) and an original service manual for a Pioneer SX-1980 receiver. I know that the Pioneer is a consumer unit, but I was outbid in the last few seconds on a manual for it which makes the quest even more " important ". Many Thanks! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still working as such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages and trips out. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1471 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:41 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Steve, Today is Saturday, 3/15/08. I have the list, but the printer in the engineering shop has some problems. I e-mailed the link to my friend and he requested a couple of extra days. If there is a cost for using the space, I can pay you via Pay-Pal for it. Please let me know. I will let you know right away when the file has been printed. Many Thanks! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" : -------------- Hi Craig -- > Hi Steve, I have received it, but will not be able to print > it until Wednesday, 3/10/08. Will that be okay? Please let me > know. I have to print it out at work and the computer here at > home is marginal even for basic functions. If you need the > space in the meantime, I understand. I can wait until you're sure you've got it. Please email me off list after you have it printed out and I'll clear the space then. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" > : -------------- > > Hi Craig -- > > c.tayerle@... wrote: > > > I am also > > looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a > > dear friend of mine ) > > I've posted it for you: > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > http://www.sonicraft.com/sc4/01.pdf > > Rename them as you please. Please tell me when you've gotten > them so I can reclaim the space. > > Best, > > -- Steve > > ======================================================== > Steve Puntolillo > Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > http://www.sonicraft.com > ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1472 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:54 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, The BVH-2500's will be delayed a bit ( now scheduled for pick-up on 4/8/08 ). I have a few sources that I can check in order to possibly locate the part for you in the meantime. Thank you for your patience. Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Cheers, that would be a great help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 09 March 2008 23:30 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have two BVH-2500 units on their way from Ventura, California to West Palm Beach, Florida. One is in mint shape and the other is a parts unit. When I receive them, I will see if the parts machine has what you need. It is a newer machine than the 2000, basically the same, but has the Delta T 60 frame record/playback feature. I am also looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a dear friend of mine ) and an original service manual for a Pioneer SX-1980 receiver. I know that the Pioneer is a consumer unit, but I was outbid in the last few seconds on a manual for it which makes the quest even more " important ". Many Thanks! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still working as such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages and trips out. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1473 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:38 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi Craig -- No problem. Just let me know when I can clear the space. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:41 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking > for a magnetic hall effect DM211) > > > Hi Steve, > > Today is Saturday, 3/15/08. I have the list, but the printer > in the engineering shop has some problems. I e-mailed the > link to my friend and he requested a couple of extra days. If > there is a cost for using the space, I can pay you via > Pay-Pal for it. Please let me know. I will let you know right > away when the file has been printed. > > Many Thanks! > > Craig J. Tayerle Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1474 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:15 am Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers! I have also seen a complete machine on Ebay too, I hope to get it allot cheaper than £300 as the recorder sounds quite dead to me. Cheers for now, thanks for your troubles. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 15 March 2008 20:54 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, The BVH-2500's will be delayed a bit ( now scheduled for pick-up on 4/8/08 ). I have a few sources that I can check in order to possibly locate the part for you in the meantime. Thank you for your patience. Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Cheers, that would be a great help! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 09 March 2008 23:30 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have two BVH-2500 units on their way from Ventura, California to West Palm Beach, Florida. One is in mint shape and the other is a parts unit. When I receive them, I will see if the parts machine has what you need. It is a newer machine than the 2000, basically the same, but has the Delta T 60 frame record/playback feature. I am also looking for a service manual for an Ampex ATR-700 ( for a dear friend of mine ) and an original service manual for a Pioneer SX-1980 receiver. I know that the Pioneer is a consumer unit, but I was outbid in the last few seconds on a manual for it which makes the quest even more " important ". Many Thanks! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Can anyone help me? I would have thought the APR machines may have some of these, I know the BVH-2000 video recorders of their time did, it's a Sony branded hall effect DM211, I need at least one to fix my for ever broken Sony DHAS PCM-3402, its half dead, meaning the recorder is still working as such but when I try to rewind a tape, the recorder gets the wrong messages and trips out. Cheers for any help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1475 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:33 am Subject: APR-5000 remote on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email Item 280209184298 Ending 4 PM PDT today... I'm not going after it. It's $125 plus shipping from Alabama Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1476 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:43 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Steve, Please go ahead & clear the space. I appreciate your patience& understanding! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" : -------------- Hi Craig -- No problem. Just let me know when I can clear the space. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:41 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking > for a magnetic hall effect DM211) > > > Hi Steve, > > Today is Saturday, 3/15/08. I have the list, but the printer > in the engineering shop has some problems. I e-mailed the > link to my friend and he requested a couple of extra days. If > there is a cost for using the space, I can pay you via > Pay-Pal for it. Please let me know. I will let you know right > away when the file has been printed. > > Many Thanks! > > Craig J. Tayerle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1477 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:29 pm Subject: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, all, Anyone know of a working IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer with FM capability? Please let me know if you do. I have been contacted by someone who needs to play a half dozen tapes in this format. This is a relatively new format compared to the 14-track 1-inch IRIG format that was used for years. I don't know precisely when it was introduced, but it was being used into the 90s. I suspect it was far shorter lived in actual use than the 14-track format. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1478 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:20 pm Subject: Re: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer allegrosound Offline Send Email Hi Richard: How are ya? Check with Steve at SoniCraft, 732-303-8559, Steve@..., Best regards & good sound, Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: Hello, all, Anyone know of a working IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer with FM capability? Please let me know if you do. I have been contacted by someone who needs to play a half dozen tapes in this format. This is a relatively new format compared to the 14-track 1-inch IRIG format that was used for years. I don't know precisely when it was introduced, but it was being used into the 90s. I suspect it was far shorter lived in actual use than the 14-track format. Thanks! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1479 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:51 pm Subject: Re: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:20 PM 2008-03-27, Rick@... wrote: >Hi Richard: > How are ya? > Check with Steve at SoniCraft, > 732-303-8559, Steve@..., > Best regards & good sound, > Rick@... Hi, Rick, Steve will see this posting (three times, I fear), but he and I know each others' capabilities pretty well and, to some extent, we try not to overlap capabilities for infrequently used formats. This would fall into an area Steve would expect me to address and I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't do this. Steve's focus is on the music industry in every possible format from 1-32 tracks on 0.150-2" tape. While much of my focus is on the music industry as well (1-16 tracks 0.150-1" tape) I also focus a good deal on oral histories and library/archive holdings. I have a tentative foot in the two stepchildren of audio recording: instrumentation and logging. These two are actually very different but also share some similarities. Instrumentation is generally defined by IRIG standard 106. IRIG is the Inter-Range Instrumentation Group which started in the 50s (IIRC) to standardize all the rocket telemetry of the space and defense programs in the US. This is an instrumentation request and while I never worked hands-on in instrumentation, I have successfully completed the one project that I was asked to do (which is on-topic for this list as my APR-16 was the tool that I used) http://www.geogrations.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop (the pictures will take a moment to load) scroll UP for the full story. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1480 From: "Rick@..." Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:03 pm Subject: Re: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer allegrosound Offline Send Email roger that, Richard. AllegroSound offers 1/4-inch Analog-to-Analog transfers, which Steve doesn't do. Best regards & good sound :-) Rick@... "Richard L. Hess" wrote: At 03:20 PM 2008-03-27, Rick@... wrote: >Hi Richard: > How are ya? > Check with Steve at SoniCraft, > 732-303-8559, Steve@..., > Best regards & good sound, > Rick@... Hi, Rick, Steve will see this posting (three times, I fear), but he and I know each others' capabilities pretty well and, to some extent, we try not to overlap capabilities for infrequently used formats. This would fall into an area Steve would expect me to address and I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't do this. Steve's focus is on the music industry in every possible format from 1-32 tracks on 0.150-2" tape. While much of my focus is on the music industry as well (1-16 tracks 0.150-1" tape) I also focus a good deal on oral histories and library/archive holdings. I have a tentative foot in the two stepchildren of audio recording: instrumentation and logging. These two are actually very different but also share some similarities. Instrumentation is generally defined by IRIG standard 106. IRIG is the Inter-Range Instrumentation Group which started in the 50s (IIRC) to standardize all the rocket telemetry of the space and defense programs in the US. This is an instrumentation request and while I never worked hands-on in instrumentation, I have successfully completed the one project that I was asked to do (which is on-topic for this list as my APR-16 was the tool that I used) http://www.geogrations.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop (the pictures will take a moment to load) scroll UP for the full story. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1481 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:05 pm Subject: Re: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Rick, If Steve doesn't offer Analog-to-Analog transfers, it's only because of choice, not lack of equipment. For the bulk of my client base, analog-to-digital transfers make the most sense, but I have had several clients who ended up with analog output instead of digital or along with digital. One wanted a full analog transfer of a mixed-track-configuration reel for cutting into vinyl and I was able to accommodate him. Another client wanted analog reels for preservation (not the current recommendation, but they remained unconvinced) so I was able to provide that of the digitally cleaned versions. Cheers, Richard At 04:03 PM 2008-03-27, Rick@... wrote: >roger that, Richard. > AllegroSound offers 1/4-inch > Analog-to-Analog transfers, > which Steve doesn't do. > Best regards & good sound :-) > Rick@... Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1482 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:18 pm Subject: RE: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi -- Richard Hess wrote: > If Steve doesn't offer Analog-to-Analog transfers, it's only because > of choice, not lack of equipment. I don't refuse to do A2A transfers. I've just backed off from going out after that business. I'm simply too OCD to do it profitably. It takes me too much time to be satisfied with the setup and I'm unwilling to charge enough to cover the time involved in getting it perfect enough to satisfy me. That being said, I have done a few. But the vast majority of my clients are looking for A2D and that, I believe, we have down to a science. Now, D2A / A2D is another matter altogether. See: http://www.sonicraft.com/A2DX/PhatZilla.html Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1483 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:28 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Steve, I just wanted to make sure that you received my e-mail that the ATR-700 is cleared to be taken down. Many Thanks! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" : -------------- Hi Craig -- No problem. Just let me know when I can clear the space. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:41 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking > for a magnetic hall effect DM211) > > > Hi Steve, > > Today is Saturday, 3/15/08. I have the list, but the printer > in the engineering shop has some problems. I e-mailed the > link to my friend and he requested a couple of extra days. If > there is a cost for using the space, I can pay you via > Pay-Pal for it. Please let me know. I will let you know right > away when the file has been printed. > > Many Thanks! > > Craig J. Tayerle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1484 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:21 pm Subject: RE: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer richardlhess Offline Send Email I was just trying to deflate Mr. Rick a bit. You don't happen to have an IRIG 28 track instrumentation recorder, do you ? At 06:18 PM 2008-03-27, you wrote: >Hi -- > >Richard Hess wrote: > > > If Steve doesn't offer Analog-to-Analog transfers, it's only because > > of choice, not lack of equipment. > >I don't refuse to do A2A transfers. I've just backed off from going out >after that business. I'm simply too OCD to do it profitably. It takes me too >much time to be satisfied with the setup and I'm unwilling to charge enough >to cover the time involved in getting it perfect enough to satisfy me. > >That being said, I have done a few. But the vast majority of my clients are >looking for A2D and that, I believe, we have down to a science. > >Now, D2A / A2D is another matter altogether. > >See: http://www.sonicraft.com/A2DX/PhatZilla.html > >Cheers, > >-- Steve > >======================================================== >Steve Puntolillo >Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers >http://www.sonicraft.com >======================================================== > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1485 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:51 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email c.tayerle@... wrote: > I just wanted to make sure that you received my e-mail that > the ATR-700 is cleared to be taken down. > > Many Thanks! > > Craig J. Tayerle Got it, Craig. Glad I could help. Best, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1486 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:54 pm Subject: RE: URGENT NEED: IRIG (B) 28-track 1-inch reproducer sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Richard L. Hess asked me: > You don't happen to have an IRIG 28 track instrumentation recorder, > do you ? If I had one, I'd be happy to send it to you, Richard. (BYTM) But alas ... Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1487 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:58 pm Subject: RE: ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email yep! tak'r down.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:28 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211) Hi Steve, I just wanted to make sure that you received my e-mail that the ATR-700 is cleared to be taken down. Many Thanks! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Steve Puntolillo" >: -------------- Hi Craig -- No problem. Just let me know when I can clear the space. Cheers, -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:41 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] ATR700 manual PDFs (was RE: Looking > for a magnetic hall effect DM211) > > > Hi Steve, > > Today is Saturday, 3/15/08. I have the list, but the printer > in the engineering shop has some problems. I e-mailed the > link to my friend and he requested a couple of extra days. If > there is a cost for using the space, I can pay you via > Pay-Pal for it. Please let me know. I will let you know right > away when the file has been printed. > > Many Thanks! > > Craig J. Tayerle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1488 From: "kingink55" Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:54 pm Subject: Re: APR-24 manual kingink55 Offline Send Email I could really use it as well. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I would be interested, to be sure... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alan DiCato > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:48 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR-24 manual > > > > Gents, > I recently purchased an APR-24 for my studio and immediately found and > joined the user > group. It's been great to hear what others are doing and to follow along > in the problem > solving process. > I have the entire APR-24 Operation and Maintenance Manual, 2nd edition > in PDF form (137 > pages total). I'd like to make it available to anyone in the group that > might need it. Let me > know the best way to set it up if there is an interest. It is about 30MB > total. > Also, there are a couple things that my APR is in need of and I'm hoping > someone can help > out. 1) One of the steel roller guides has a noisy bearing that needs > replaced. Is there a > source for parts? 2) My APR is missing one of the channel cards. Does > anyone have one that I > might be able to purchase? > Thanks so much for any guidance. > Alan DiCato > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1489 From: H Cooley Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:19 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-24 manual hcooley2 Offline Send Email I would be interested in the PDF manual as well. Is it available for download? Thanks for doing this. To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com From: leopold55@... Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:54:39 +0000 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 manual I could really use it as well. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I would be interested, to be sure... :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Alan DiCato > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:48 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] APR-24 manual > > > > Gents, > I recently purchased an APR-24 for my studio and immediately found and > joined the user > group. It's been great to hear what others are doing and to follow along > in the problem > solving process. > I have the entire APR-24 Operation and Maintenance Manual, 2nd edition > in PDF form (137 > pages total). I'd like to make it available to anyone in the group that > might need it. Let me > know the best way to set it up if there is an interest. It is about 30MB > total. > Also, there are a couple things that my APR is in need of and I'm hoping > someone can help > out. 1) One of the steel roller guides has a noisy bearing that needs > replaced. Is there a > source for parts? 2) My APR is missing one of the channel cards. Does > anyone have one that I > might be able to purchase? > Thanks so much for any guidance. > Alan DiCato > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Test your Star IQ http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1490 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 manual engjch13 Offline Send Email There seems to be a fair amount of interest in the manual, perhaps you could upload it to the Yahoo Sony_APR files section? Or perhaps Richard Hess would host it? Also, I just replaced those same bearings on a machine for a client. They had spares that came with the machine, but they're probably a relatively standard bearing. Go to McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) or your local equivalent, and look at "flanged bearings". I suspect they'll have the right size. Get the highest ABEC number rating. Jeff Chestek > > > > > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > > Behalf Of Alan DiCato > > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:48 PM > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [sony_apr] APR-24 manual > > > > > > > > > > > > Gents, > > > I recently purchased an APR-24 for my studio and immediately found and > > > joined the user > > > group. It's been great to hear what others are doing and to follow along > > > in the problem > > > solving process. > > > I have the entire APR-24 Operation and Maintenance Manual, 2nd edition > > > in PDF form (137 > > > pages total). I'd like to make it available to anyone in the group that > > > might need it. Let me > > > know the best way to set it up if there is an interest. It is about 30MB > > > total. > > > Also, there are a couple things that my APR is in need of and I'm hoping > > > someone can help > > > out. 1) One of the steel roller guides has a noisy bearing that needs > > > replaced. Is there a > > > source for parts? 2) My APR is missing one of the channel cards. Does > > > anyone have one that I > > > might be able to purchase? > > > Thanks so much for any guidance. > > > Alan DiCato > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1491 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:10 PM 2008-03-29, Jeff Chestek wrote: >There seems to be a fair amount of interest in the manual, perhaps you >could upload it to the Yahoo Sony_APR files section? Or perhaps Richard >Hess would host it? I would host it -- and I'd suggest not scanning pages that are duplicates of the APR-5000 manual because, as you know, I have that well-scanned (used a big Xerox machine where I used to work). I'd love someone to send me the scans of the APR-24. I can arrange a dropoff point for an ftp upload. The APR-5000 manual is at: http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ username: apr password: apr5003v Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1492 From: alan dicato Date: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:01 am Subject: Re: APR-24 manual ajd454 Offline Send Email Richard, I've split the APR-24 Operation & Maintenance Manual into 2 PDF files so I can send it for you to host on the site. My email limits me to 20MB max for attachments so you'll receive 2 emails with half of the manual at about 15MB each. I'll send them to you directly right away. Please confirm back that you received them successfully. Thanks. Thanks also to Jeff for the bearing info... Best regards, Alan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1493 From: H Cooley Date: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:00 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR-24 manual hcooley2 Offline Send Email Thanks to everyone for sharing the manuals! Archer Records Memphis To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com From: aland454@... Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:01:26 -0700 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR-24 manual Richard, I've split the APR-24 Operation & Maintenance Manual into 2 PDF files so I can send it for you to host on the site. My email limits me to 20MB max for attachments so you'll receive 2 emails with half of the manual at about 15MB each. I'll send them to you directly right away. Please confirm back that you received them successfully. Thanks. Thanks also to Jeff for the bearing info... Best regards, Alan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1494 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:03 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR-24 manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Alan, This is wonderful and this coupled with the APR-5003V manual get you most of the way there. HOWEVER, there are about 40-50 pages of drawings that we need to scan to have a complete APR-24 manual. I have them (though I think my manual(s) may be earlier than yours), but I don't have access to a good B-sized scanner and I'm way to busy to stitch them together. Anyway, I took the password off the directory BUT I really don't want people posting public links to this. Google won't find anything at www.richardhess.net 'cause I tell their robot to go away, BUT if you put a link someplace else that Google will find, then it's as good as linked. So, please don't! www.richardhess.net/apr/ Cheers, Richard At 05:01 AM 2008-03-31, alan dicato wrote: >Richard, > I've split the APR-24 Operation & Maintenance Manual into 2 PDF > files so I can send it for you to host on the site. My email limits > me to 20MB max for attachments so you'll receive 2 emails with half > of the manual at about 15MB each. I'll send them to you directly > right away. Please confirm back that you received them successfully. Thanks. > > Thanks also to Jeff for the bearing info... > > Best regards, > Alan > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1495 From: "petersinnett" Date: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:06 pm Subject: Whistle on startup - APR-5003V petersinnett Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I have a high pitched whistle from the monitor(cue) speaker on my APR-5003V on startup. This fades out after approx 60-90 seconds and only happens on a cold start. Anyone had this happen? Any ideas as to where I should look to resolve it? Peter (Devon - UK) Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1496 From: "jooshtin" Date: Fri Apr 4, 2008 8:12 am Subject: APR5003v - bias problem - done jooshtin Offline Send Email Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on my APR5003v - especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep these machines working. I've been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for fellow UK owners here's where I found the parts: LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - http://www.dalbani.co.uk Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs-online.com/web/ And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron Canford... I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is pretty much ruler flat, deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. when you buy a new machine! :o) Cheers Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1497 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2008 12:14 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done ladewd Offline Send Email Justin, A small tip. Under the LM13600N IC there is a diode mounted across the socket. On the diode there is a small amount of heatsink grease. The idea is the diode must touch the 13600 to compensate for temperature. If there is insufficient grease, dried up or otherwise, or the diode is not clearly touching the bottom surface of the IC, the bias will vary with the temperature of the machine. This will result in the bias changed as the machine warms up. Now that you've got it running, check it out and make sure you put a small dab of heatsink grease on the diode and re-install the IC. In fact, I would recommend that all APR users pull the IC out of the socket, clean and apply fresh heatsink grease to the diode. The stuff dries out over time. For those of you with APR-24's I feel your pain, but it should be checked on all 24 CNL cards. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on my APR5003v - > especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep these machines working. I've > been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for fellow UK owners here's > where I found the parts: > > LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com > > Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - http://www.dalbani.co.uk > > Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs- online.com/web/ > > And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron Canford... > > I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is pretty much ruler flat, > deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. when you buy a new > machine! :o) > > Cheers > > Justin > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1498 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2008 12:17 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done ladewd Offline Send Email I may add that the very early APR5000's may not have this diode. (This is for you Richard). Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Justin, > > A small tip. Under the LM13600N IC there is a diode mounted across > the socket. On the diode there is a small amount of heatsink > grease. The idea is the diode must touch the 13600 to compensate for > temperature. If there is insufficient grease, dried up or otherwise, > or the diode is not clearly touching the bottom surface of the IC, > the bias will vary with the temperature of the machine. This will > result in the bias changed as the machine warms up. Now that you've > got it running, check it out and make sure you put a small dab of > heatsink grease on the diode and re-install the IC. > > In fact, I would recommend that all APR users pull the IC out of the > socket, clean and apply fresh heatsink grease to the diode. The > stuff dries out over time. For those of you with APR-24's I feel > your pain, but it should be checked on all 24 CNL cards. > > Cary > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on my > APR5003v - > > especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep these > machines working. I've > > been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for > fellow UK owners here's > > where I found the parts: > > > > LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com > > > > Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - > http://www.dalbani.co.uk > > > > Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs- > online.com/web/ > > > > And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron > Canford... > > > > I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is > pretty much ruler flat, > > deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. > when you buy a new > > machine! :o) > > > > Cheers > > > > Justin > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1499 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2008 12:46 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done richardlhess Offline Send Email At 12:17 PM 2008-04-06, you wrote: >I may add that the very early APR5000's may not have this diode. >(This is for you Richard). Thanks, Cary! I have (but don't use) early APRs. All the ones in current use (except the mold-winding one) are (2) 5003s in the 21000 SN range and (3) 5003Vs in the 11000 SN range. Are these ICs soldered in or socketed? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1500 From: "jooshtin" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2008 12:28 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done jooshtin Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, I replaced one IC and put on new grease, I'll check the others now... :o) Justin --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Justin, > > A small tip. Under the LM13600N IC there is a diode mounted across > the socket. On the diode there is a small amount of heatsink > grease. The idea is the diode must touch the 13600 to compensate for > temperature. If there is insufficient grease, dried up or otherwise, > or the diode is not clearly touching the bottom surface of the IC, > the bias will vary with the temperature of the machine. This will > result in the bias changed as the machine warms up. Now that you've > got it running, check it out and make sure you put a small dab of > heatsink grease on the diode and re-install the IC. > > In fact, I would recommend that all APR users pull the IC out of the > socket, clean and apply fresh heatsink grease to the diode. The > stuff dries out over time. For those of you with APR-24's I feel > your pain, but it should be checked on all 24 CNL cards. > > Cary > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on my > APR5003v - > > especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep these > machines working. I've > > been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for > fellow UK owners here's > > where I found the parts: > > > > LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com > > > > Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - > http://www.dalbani.co.uk > > > > Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs- > online.com/web/ > > > > And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron > Canford... > > > > I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is > pretty much ruler flat, > > deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. > when you buy a new > > machine! :o) > > > > Cheers > > > > Justin > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1501 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2008 3:53 pm Subject: RE: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email This was added in as a result of environmental testing of the APR. Cary, I believe that only the small number of pre-production APR's didn't have the diode... the drift showed up in QA testing. I don't remember what happened to those machines though after full production started..... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:17 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done I may add that the very early APR5000's may not have this diode. (This is for you Richard). Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "ladewd" wrote: > > Justin, > > A small tip. Under the LM13600N IC there is a diode mounted across > the socket. On the diode there is a small amount of heatsink > grease. The idea is the diode must touch the 13600 to compensate for > temperature. If there is insufficient grease, dried up or otherwise, > or the diode is not clearly touching the bottom surface of the IC, > the bias will vary with the temperature of the machine. This will > result in the bias changed as the machine warms up. Now that you've > got it running, check it out and make sure you put a small dab of > heatsink grease on the diode and re-install the IC. > > In fact, I would recommend that all APR users pull the IC out of the > socket, clean and apply fresh heatsink grease to the diode. The > stuff dries out over time. For those of you with APR-24's I feel > your pain, but it should be checked on all 24 CNL cards. > > Cary > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on my > APR5003v - > > especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep these > machines working. I've > > been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for > fellow UK owners here's > > where I found the parts: > > > > LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com > > > > Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - > http://www.dalbani.co.uk > > > > Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs- > online.com/web/ > > > > And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron > Canford... > > > > I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is > pretty much ruler flat, > > deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. > when you buy a new > > machine! :o) > > > > Cheers > > > > Justin > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1502 From: "Richard Merrick" Date: Tue Apr 8, 2008 5:53 pm Subject: Hello from Mr New Person richardmerrick Offline Send Email Hi everyone, I found this group almost by accident a couple of weeks ago and have been gracefully allowed to join up - so I thought it might be polite to say "Hello!" and let you guys know who was lurking out here in the bushes! By trade I'm now a freelance television and film location sound mixer, although most of my career was for a well-known British broadcaster - yes, THAT one! I now specialise in complex projects with minimal budgets, particularly in the reality and hidden camera genres. About 40 or so years ago I built my first tape recorder from a kit and the magic of hearing sound come back from a machine has never left me. As for the Sony APR connection, I acquired a redundant APR 5003 from a recording studio some years ago. It's battered enough to have a personality and I love it dearly. Already within these few days in the Group I've learnt things, and I hope to learn more in the fullness of time. While almost everything I do professionally is digital and file-based, there is still a deep appreciation of the inherent mystery that analogue recording imparts to a performance. Besides, there's the best part of 30 years of material out there that can only be recovered with analogue machines and the APRs are probably some of the best at handling that material gently. Anyway, I live in the UK just to the south of Central London, with a very understanding wife and two great teenage kids, one boy and one girl. If any of you inhabit the Tropic of Croydon wastelands, feel free to make contact! I doubt that I'll post often in the Group - it's obvious that there is significant APR talent out there that I don't possess. Nevertheless, I'm out here listening and when I can, I'll be throwing my pennyworth into the ring. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER LONDON UK Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1503 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:39 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, The IC's are socketed. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 12:17 PM 2008-04-06, you wrote: > >I may add that the very early APR5000's may not have this diode. > >(This is for you Richard). > > Thanks, Cary! > > I have (but don't use) early APRs. All the ones in current use > (except the mold-winding one) are (2) 5003s in the 21000 SN range and > (3) 5003Vs in the 11000 SN range. > > Are these ICs soldered in or socketed? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8)[ []#1504 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:55 pm Subject: Re: Hello from Mr New Person ladewd Offline Send Email Welcome to the group Richard! Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Merrick" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I found this group almost by accident a couple of weeks ago and have been > gracefully allowed to join up - so I thought it might be polite to say > "Hello!" and let you guys know who was lurking out here in the bushes! > > By trade I'm now a freelance television and film location sound mixer, > although most of my career was for a well-known British broadcaster - yes, > THAT one! > > I now specialise in complex projects with minimal budgets, particularly in > the reality and hidden camera genres. > > About 40 or so years ago I built my first tape recorder from a kit and the > magic of hearing sound come back from a machine has never left me. > > As for the Sony APR connection, I acquired a redundant APR 5003 from a > recording studio some years ago. It's battered enough to have a personality > and I love it dearly. Already within these few days in the Group I've learnt > things, and I hope to learn more in the fullness of time. > > While almost everything I do professionally is digital and file- based, there > is still a deep appreciation of the inherent mystery that analogue recording > imparts to a performance. > > Besides, there's the best part of 30 years of material out there that can > only be recovered with analogue machines and the APRs are probably some of > the best at handling that material gently. > > Anyway, I live in the UK just to the south of Central London, with a very > understanding wife and two great teenage kids, one boy and one girl. If any > of you inhabit the Tropic of Croydon wastelands, feel free to make contact! > > I doubt that I'll post often in the Group - it's obvious that there is > significant APR talent out there that I don't possess. Nevertheless, I'm out > here listening and when I can, I'll be throwing my pennyworth into the ring. > > Best regards, > > Richard Merrick > LOCATION SOUND MIXER > LONDON UK > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1505 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:16 pm Subject: Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done ladewd Offline Send Email Me too, I don't remember if the first (totally Made in USA)lot went out to NBC without the diodes. As you know, Richard bought quite a few of those units. That's why I mentioned it. I know they were there once the knock down kits came from Japan. I also vaguely remember modifying quite a few CNL cards early on, so maybe they were done. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > This was added in as a result of environmental testing of the APR. Cary, > I believe that only the small number of pre-production APR's didn't have > the diode... the drift showed up in QA testing. I don't remember what > happened to those machines though after full production started..... > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:17 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: APR5003v - bias problem - done > > > > I may add that the very early APR5000's may not have this diode. > (This is for you Richard). > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Justin, > > > > A small tip. Under the LM13600N IC there is a diode mounted across > > the socket. On the diode there is a small amount of heatsink > > grease. The idea is the diode must touch the 13600 to compensate > for > > temperature. If there is insufficient grease, dried up or > otherwise, > > or the diode is not clearly touching the bottom surface of the IC, > > the bias will vary with the temperature of the machine. This will > > result in the bias changed as the machine warms up. Now that > you've > > got it running, check it out and make sure you put a small dab of > > heatsink grease on the diode and re-install the IC. > > > > In fact, I would recommend that all APR users pull the IC out of > the > > socket, clean and apply fresh heatsink grease to the diode. The > > stuff dries out over time. For those of you with APR-24's I feel > > your pain, but it should be checked on all 24 CNL cards. > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "jooshtin" wrote: > > > > > > Huge thanks to the group for helping me fix the bias problems on > my > > APR5003v - > > > especially Cary. This group is an invaluable archive to keep > these > > machines working. I've > > > been happily using it for a while now since the repairs, so for > > fellow UK owners here's > > > where I found the parts: > > > > > > LM13600N on CNL boards - http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com > > > > > > > Bias & erase transistors 2SD1133 & 2SB857 on CNL - > > http://www.dalbani.co.uk > > > > > > Replacement fan (much quieter) and elec caps etc... http://uk.rs- > > online.com/web/ > > > > > > And of course an oscilloscope from Maplin... MRL tape fron > > Canford... > > > > > > I use it all the time for mixdowns and the frequency response is > > pretty much ruler flat, > > > deep joy. Remember - always check your bias/erase voltages etc. > > when you buy a new > > > machine! :o) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1506 From: "saxplayerbob" Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:11 am Subject: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties saxplayerbob Offline Send Email Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post so please bear with me here. I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and sophistication. However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is not on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no change in the status indicator. I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did you do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and is in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and indicate little use. Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, if anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have a great day everyone. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1507 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:19 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ladewd Offline Send Email HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on the top panel. 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the mating connector on the machine. 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. This should help get you started looking in the right areas. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > so please bear with me here. > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and sophistication. > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is not > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > change in the status indicator. > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did you > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and is > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > indicate little use. > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, if > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have a > great day everyone. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1508 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:42 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email How are you feeling these days, Cary..? ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on the top panel. 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the mating connector on the machine. 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. This should help get you started looking in the right areas. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > so please bear with me here. > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and sophistication. > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is not > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > change in the status indicator. > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did you > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and is > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > indicate little use. > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, if > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have a > great day everyone. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1509 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:53 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties richardlhess Offline Send Email Bob, As you've probably figured out, you can remove the head with the three, usually Philips, screws at the top of the head assembly. They are the larger, recessed ones. At the left front, second screw from front At the right front, second screw from front off at a diagonal to the supply reel At the rear left almost in line with the one at the right front. Don't unscrew the two smaller screws in front of the screws you're supposed to remove as that will loosen the guides which is not a good thing. Then once the screws are loose (they won't come completely out) lif the entire head assembly straight up. That's how you see the DIP switch and the connector. Be VERY careful of the connector--new shells are over $100 each from AM-P and you need to order a minimum of 20 pieces each. I checked about 3-4 years ago, so prices/minimum order may have gone up. Cheers, Richard At 12:19 PM 2008-04-13, ladewd wrote: >HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > >1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on >the top panel. > >2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few >colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it >plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the >machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > >3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the >mating connector on the machine. > >4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and >an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look >for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between >the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > >This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and >sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is >not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did >you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and >is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, >if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have >a > > great day everyone. > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1510 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:22 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Over $100 each Richard..? WOW !! I somehow didn't remember them as anything particularly special, but then I never have had to replace one either. The usual rule of thumb always applies, doesn't it..? If it feels like you are forcing something, you are, stop and find out why first... :>) I guess you were investigating that as part of Franken Sony, huh..? Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Bob, As you've probably figured out, you can remove the head with the three, usually Philips, screws at the top of the head assembly. They are the larger, recessed ones. At the left front, second screw from front At the right front, second screw from front off at a diagonal to the supply reel At the rear left almost in line with the one at the right front. Don't unscrew the two smaller screws in front of the screws you're supposed to remove as that will loosen the guides which is not a good thing. Then once the screws are loose (they won't come completely out) lif the entire head assembly straight up. That's how you see the DIP switch and the connector. Be VERY careful of the connector--new shells are over $100 each from AM-P and you need to order a minimum of 20 pieces each. I checked about 3-4 years ago, so prices/minimum order may have gone up. Cheers, Richard At 12:19 PM 2008-04-13, ladewd wrote: >HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > >1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on >the top panel. > >2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few >colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it >plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the >machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > >3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the >mating connector on the machine. > >4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and >an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look >for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between >the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > >This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and >sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is >not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did >you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and >is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, >if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have >a > > great day everyone. > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1511 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:08 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 Mods richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Scott, Worse than that -- the minimum order would get you. If you wanted one mating pair, it would be about $4000 for the 20 of each gender shell PLUS pins. I don't know of another source for 78-pin D connectors. The system probably would have worked fine with a 50-pin D connector, but no, they had to go with a 78-pin D connector that appears to be an AM-P special. I've checked other places. Studer used them, too, on their multi-tracks and I did get one off e-Pay. Yes, I was investigating them for two reasons: (1) to do the FrankenSony and (2) since I change heads often, what would be the cost to have spares. As you now know, it was cheaper to obtain spare machine . I have more male chassis connectors than I do female head block connectors as I've not gotten a head block with every machine I've gotten. Mechanically, the rotating guides and pinch roller of the APR are as serviceable as the Studer A80 using stock ball bearings (although the APR uses flanged ball bearings which are less pervasive than their non-flanged cousins, but NSK still has them in their current catalog. Both NSK and SKF can supply bearings for the A80. I don't know about the reel motors on the APR whether those bearings can be changed, but they can be on the A80. The A80 capstan uses sleeve bearings to control flutter, and those are non-field-replaceable. I don't know about the APR capstan motor. Contrast that to the A810 and A807 where there are a large number of sintered bronze oilite bearings that are allegedly permanently lubricated (not). However, the APR has more fixed guides than the A80 and probably more than the A810. I've looked at putting a ball bearing as a "tire" on the tension idler in the APR -- it's possible, but the head assembly entry/exit guides are the main thing I'd like to replace with rotating guides. I have a few ATR-100 guides I might use there, but all my high-quality 1/4-inch music tapes get transferred on the A80s. 1/4-inch 4-track and 1/2-inch 2- and 3-track will probably be the high-quality tapes I do on the APRs. By the way, have you guys ever looked at changing the input impedance of the PB preamp to accommodate 500 mH heads? It seems possible. IIRC, the nominal PB head inductance is 80-100 mH. Also, do you know the spec of the normal Woelke Play heads gap length? Cheers, Richard Cheers, Richard At 02:22 PM 2008-04-13, Scott Phillips wrote: >Over $100 each Richard..? > >WOW !! I somehow didn't remember them as anything particularly special, >but then I never have had to replace one either. The usual rule of thumb >always applies, doesn't it..? If it feels like you are forcing >something, you are, stop and find out why first... :>) > >I guess you were investigating that as part of Franken Sony, huh..? > >Scott > >________________________________ > >From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Richard L. Hess >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:53 AM >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > >Bob, > >As you've probably figured out, you can remove the head with the >three, usually Philips, screws at the top of the head assembly. They >are the larger, recessed ones. >At the left front, second screw from front >At the right front, second screw from front off at a diagonal to the >supply reel >At the rear left almost in line with the one at the right front. > >Don't unscrew the two smaller screws in front of the screws you're >supposed to remove as that will loosen the guides which is not a good >thing. > >Then once the screws are loose (they won't come completely out) lif >the entire head assembly straight up. > >That's how you see the DIP switch and the connector. > >Be VERY careful of the connector--new shells are over $100 each from >AM-P and you need to order a minimum of 20 pieces each. I checked >about 3-4 years ago, so prices/minimum order may have gone up. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 12:19 PM 2008-04-13, ladewd wrote: > >HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > > >1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > >the top panel. > > > >2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > >colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > >plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > >machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > > >3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > >mating connector on the machine. > > > >4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > >an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > >for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > >the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > > >This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , >"saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > > so please bear with me here. > > > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > >sophistication. > > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > >not > > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > > change in the status indicator. > > > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > >you > > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > >is > > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > > indicate little use. > > > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > >if > > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > >a > > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1512 From: "Bob Williams" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:18 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties saxplayerbob Offline Send Email My dear friend Richard, Thanks much for this information. It is very important and does give me a place to start. I did go ahead and take the risk of removing the head and only with the three (3) phillips screws you mentioned. I will now have to go through the steps you mention. As I am not prone to attempt too much testing, I will be very careful at every step. The main thing for me is not to break anything that's working well. So far as I can tell, the male and female plugs in the head mate well, although I can tell much once I put the head back in place. I still wonder if the plugs are seated properly. I will take a hard look once I reseat the head. Again my friend, thanks much. You are always a big help to me. by the way, my machine serial number is 100829 I believe. I think my machine is one of the earlier ones made. At any rate, it looks in fine shape and the heads are looking great. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Bob, As you've probably figured out, you can remove the head with the three, usually Philips, screws at the top of the head assembly. They are the larger, recessed ones. At the left front, second screw from front At the right front, second screw from front off at a diagonal to the supply reel At the rear left almost in line with the one at the right front. Don't unscrew the two smaller screws in front of the screws you're supposed to remove as that will loosen the guides which is not a good thing. Then once the screws are loose (they won't come completely out) lif the entire head assembly straight up. That's how you see the DIP switch and the connector. Be VERY careful of the connector--new shells are over $100 each from AM-P and you need to order a minimum of 20 pieces each. I checked about 3-4 years ago, so prices/minimum order may have gone up. Cheers, Richard At 12:19 PM 2008-04-13, ladewd wrote: >HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > >1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on >the top panel. > >2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few >colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it >plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the >machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > >3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the >mating connector on the machine. > >4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and >an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look >for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between >the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > >This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and >sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is >not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did >you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and >is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, >if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have >a > > great day everyone. > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1513 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:39 pm Subject: RE: Sony APR 5000 Mods ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Don't let Fred hear about you using 'non-Studer' bearings Richard ! I'd be interested in rotating fixed guide replacements myself. The bearings in the reel and capstan motors on APR are all replaceable. I still wouldn't do it myself, I don't have all the dial indicators and bench tools to check the results properly, but AMP services in Florida does them, as do a bunch of other folks. I'd guess JRF does as well, although I've never asked them to. They have always done my heads though, and I have no complains with John's work spanning 20+ years, so I'm not sure why I never enquired about the motors. I don't remember the gap information. Changing the front end impedance shouldn't be that hard, although that is a good sized swing. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:08 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5000 Mods Hi, Scott, Worse than that -- the minimum order would get you. If you wanted one mating pair, it would be about $4000 for the 20 of each gender shell PLUS pins. I don't know of another source for 78-pin D connectors. The system probably would have worked fine with a 50-pin D connector, but no, they had to go with a 78-pin D connector that appears to be an AM-P special. I've checked other places. Studer used them, too, on their multi-tracks and I did get one off e-Pay. Yes, I was investigating them for two reasons: (1) to do the FrankenSony and (2) since I change heads often, what would be the cost to have spares. As you now know, it was cheaper to obtain spare machine . I have more male chassis connectors than I do female head block connectors as I've not gotten a head block with every machine I've gotten. Mechanically, the rotating guides and pinch roller of the APR are as serviceable as the Studer A80 using stock ball bearings (although the APR uses flanged ball bearings which are less pervasive than their non-flanged cousins, but NSK still has them in their current catalog. Both NSK and SKF can supply bearings for the A80. I don't know about the reel motors on the APR whether those bearings can be changed, but they can be on the A80. The A80 capstan uses sleeve bearings to control flutter, and those are non-field-replaceable. I don't know about the APR capstan motor. Contrast that to the A810 and A807 where there are a large number of sintered bronze oilite bearings that are allegedly permanently lubricated (not). However, the APR has more fixed guides than the A80 and probably more than the A810. I've looked at putting a ball bearing as a "tire" on the tension idler in the APR -- it's possible, but the head assembly entry/exit guides are the main thing I'd like to replace with rotating guides. I have a few ATR-100 guides I might use there, but all my high-quality 1/4-inch music tapes get transferred on the A80s. 1/4-inch 4-track and 1/2-inch 2- and 3-track will probably be the high-quality tapes I do on the APRs. By the way, have you guys ever looked at changing the input impedance of the PB preamp to accommodate 500 mH heads? It seems possible. IIRC, the nominal PB head inductance is 80-100 mH. Also, do you know the spec of the normal Woelke Play heads gap length? Cheers, Richard Cheers, Richard At 02:22 PM 2008-04-13, Scott Phillips wrote: >Over $100 each Richard..? > >WOW !! I somehow didn't remember them as anything particularly special, >but then I never have had to replace one either. The usual rule of thumb >always applies, doesn't it..? If it feels like you are forcing >something, you are, stop and find out why first... :>) > >I guess you were investigating that as part of Franken Sony, huh..? > >Scott > >________________________________ > >From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On >Behalf Of Richard L. Hess >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:53 AM >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > >Bob, > >As you've probably figured out, you can remove the head with the >three, usually Philips, screws at the top of the head assembly. They >are the larger, recessed ones. >At the left front, second screw from front >At the right front, second screw from front off at a diagonal to the >supply reel >At the rear left almost in line with the one at the right front. > >Don't unscrew the two smaller screws in front of the screws you're >supposed to remove as that will loosen the guides which is not a good >thing. > >Then once the screws are loose (they won't come completely out) lif >the entire head assembly straight up. > >That's how you see the DIP switch and the connector. > >Be VERY careful of the connector--new shells are over $100 each from >AM-P and you need to order a minimum of 20 pieces each. I checked >about 3-4 years ago, so prices/minimum order may have gone up. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 12:19 PM 2008-04-13, ladewd wrote: > >HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > > >1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > >the top panel. > > > >2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > >colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > >plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > >machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > > >3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > >mating connector on the machine. > > > >4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > >an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > >for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > >the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > > >This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , >"saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > > so please bear with me here. > > > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > >sophistication. > > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > >not > > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > > change in the status indicator. > > > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > >you > > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > >is > > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > > indicate little use. > > > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > >if > > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > >a > > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1514 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:52 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ladewd Offline Send Email Walking around with a cane. I'm back at work and already I'm too busy! I need to slow down a bit. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > How are you feeling these days, Cary..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > > HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > the top panel. > > 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > mating connector on the machine. > > 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > a > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1515 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:06 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I'm afraid I already have one of those blue cards hanging from my car's rear view mirror. I feel your pain... ..hope you stop feeling your pain and get rid of the cane..! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Walking around with a cane. I'm back at work and already I'm too busy! I need to slow down a bit. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > How are you feeling these days, Cary..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > > HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > the top panel. > > 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > mating connector on the machine. > > 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > a > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1516 From: "Bob Williams" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties saxplayerbob Offline Send Email Cary, Thanks for the additional information on testing my MPR-5002 in order to get it up and running. Actually I have a machine labled serial no. 10086 which I assume was one of the early recorders made. Again, it appears to be in good shape other than the problem I am having with the status reading (H.O.). Of course I hope there are no other problems once this is taken care of. Thanks again my friend. You and Richard Hess have been great for me. Richard in particular has bent over backwards to help me get the Sony in the first place. I am blessed to have friends like you all. Thanks much. Saxplayerbob ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties I'm afraid I already have one of those blue cards hanging from my car's rear view mirror. I feel your pain... ..hope you stop feeling your pain and get rid of the cane..! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Walking around with a cane. I'm back at work and already I'm too busy! I need to slow down a bit. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > How are you feeling these days, Cary..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > > HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > the top panel. > > 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > mating connector on the machine. > > 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > a > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1517 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:18 pm Subject: RE: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I was just wondering if you had checked to make sure the dip switches on the headstack were set in a logical manner for the head stack configuration you have (see manual) and perhaps exercised the dip switches a few times to make sure it just doesn't have dirty switch contacts...?? ...just a thought.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Williams Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Cary, Thanks for the additional information on testing my MPR-5002 in order to get it up and running. Actually I have a machine labled serial no. 10086 which I assume was one of the early recorders made. Again, it appears to be in good shape other than the problem I am having with the status reading (H.O.). Of course I hope there are no other problems once this is taken care of. Thanks again my friend. You and Richard Hess have been great for me. Richard in particular has bent over backwards to help me get the Sony in the first place. I am blessed to have friends like you all. Thanks much. Saxplayerbob ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties I'm afraid I already have one of those blue cards hanging from my car's rear view mirror. I feel your pain... ..hope you stop feeling your pain and get rid of the cane..! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Walking around with a cane. I'm back at work and already I'm too busy! I need to slow down a bit. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > How are you feeling these days, Cary..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > > HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > the top panel. > > 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > mating connector on the machine. > > 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > a > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1518 From: "Bob Williams" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:13 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties saxplayerbob Offline Send Email Scott, I am more than elated that you all are assisting me in this manner. When I purchased the APR-5002 I fell in love with the machine right then. As Richard says, it sits very well on a desk top and actually has a rather small footprint. Thank you sir for your input and I am still trying to make sure I am putting those small switches in the number 1 or 0 position as they should be. I have a 2 track machine and plan to play back 2 track tapes of classical and jazz music. I am looking forward to when I can plug this baby in, put on a Tape Project tape and sit back and enjoy. I will certainly work the switches as you have suggested since this machine has been sitting since 1994 I am now told. This is still a long time, so I should take some precautions. Thank you again sir. Saxplayerbob ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties I was just wondering if you had checked to make sure the dip switches on the headstack were set in a logical manner for the head stack configuration you have (see manual) and perhaps exercised the dip switches a few times to make sure it just doesn't have dirty switch contacts...?? ...just a thought.... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Williams Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Cary, Thanks for the additional information on testing my MPR-5002 in order to get it up and running. Actually I have a machine labled serial no. 10086 which I assume was one of the early recorders made. Again, it appears to be in good shape other than the problem I am having with the status reading (H.O.). Of course I hope there are no other problems once this is taken care of. Thanks again my friend. You and Richard Hess have been great for me. Richard in particular has bent over backwards to help me get the Sony in the first place. I am blessed to have friends like you all. Thanks much. Saxplayerbob ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Phillips To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties I'm afraid I already have one of those blue cards hanging from my car's rear view mirror. I feel your pain... ..hope you stop feeling your pain and get rid of the cane..! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties Walking around with a cane. I'm back at work and already I'm too busy! I need to slow down a bit. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > How are you feeling these days, Cary..? > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf Of ladewd > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:19 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > > > HO means head off. There may be several reasons for this: > > 1. DIP switch on headstack is set incorrectly. Follow the diagram on > the top panel. > > 2. A wire may be broken coming from the headstack. There are a few > colored wires that mounted on the headstack and the connector it > plugs into. They are on the extreme end of the connector on both the > machine and headstack. These are the ones you should be checking. > > 3. The headstack connector is not making good contact with the > mating connector on the machine. > > 4. You may have a defective MST board. You'll neeed an ohmeter and > an extender card to extend the MST board. In the MST schematic, look > for the "Head Poll" circuit and see if you have continuity between > the connector on the machine and the points on the schematic. > > This should help get you started looking in the right areas. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "saxplayerbob" wrote: > > > > Hello to everyone here. I am new and am very thankful to have this > > forum and Mr. Richard Hess to assist me. This is my first real post > > so please bear with me here. > > > > I have been able to get my hands on this tape recorder and must say > > I've fallen in love with it's tape handeling size and > sophistication. > > However, I am getting an status message (HO). I learned from my > > friend Richard that this is an indication that the head block is > not > > on the machine. Actually I've removed and replaced it twice with no > > change in the status indicator. > > > > I am wondering if anyone else has suffered this fate and what did > you > > do about it? This Sony was obtained from a local radio station and > is > > in otherwise great condition. The tape heads are excellent and > > indicate little use. > > > > Richard was kind enough to send me the link to a manual and I have > > gone on recently and purchased a (Vol. 1) owners manual. Finally, > if > > anyone has the NAB HUBS for this recorder, I would be pleased to > > purchase a set. Thank you so much for your assistance. Please have > a > > great day everyone. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1519 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:07 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties engjch13 Offline Send Email I recently had a problem involving a dipswitch (in a Sony recording console) which turned out to be the switch itself gone bad. One of the switches was open, no matter which way it was set. You might want to check to make sure the switches actually measure closed when they're set "on". Jeff Chestek Bob Williams wrote: > Project tape and sit back and enjoy. I will certainly work the > switches as you have suggested since this machine has been sitting > since 1994 I am now told. > > Saxplayerbob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Phillips > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:18 PM > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties > > I was just wondering if you had checked to make sure the dip switches on > the headstack were set in a logical manner for the head stack > configuration you have (see manual) and perhaps exercised the dip > switches a few times to make sure it just doesn't have dirty switch > contacts...?? > > . > Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1520 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:56 pm Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5002 Difficulties richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Bob, This is the first code for stereo heads High Speed (HS, 7.5/15/30) 11001010 This is the first code for stereo heads Low Speed (LS, 3.75./7.5/15) 10001010 This is the second code for stereo heads HS 11010010 This is the second code for stereo heads LS 10010010 You can use either the first or second code for the stereo heads on your APR-5002. In fact, you could use the third and fourth as well -- look at the silk screening. Just as long as you match the tape width, speed group, and number of channels. If the DIP switches aren't correct in the head assembly, all bets are off. How did yours come set? I would guess 11001010 If you change the code, you'll have to do the alignment all over again -- which isn't a bad thing on a "new" machine. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (13 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1521 From: gael guilarte Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:41 am Subject: settings 4 rcf and rcb using basf 911???? gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email glad to find a yahoo group 4 the apr do anyone know the correct settings we should use for the basf 911 and other new tape we can find this days ?? it s about the record compensation feedback and the record compensation feedfoward we can set up in the machine i never touch this thing .thanks guys ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1522 From: "jooshtin" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:11 pm Subject: Buying an APR24 jooshtin Offline Send Email I'm looking to buy a 2" 24 track and an APR24 has come up. I love my APR5003v for mixdowns, and IMO once properly set up it out-performs most other "pro" machines I've used. Is there anything I should look for or beware of? Does anyone have any thoughts on how an APR24 compares to the more popular UK choices of Otari & Studer? I've also been offered a nice Lyrec 533 but I think spares could be a real nightmare with that one? Many thanks, Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1523 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:46 pm Subject: Re: Buying an APR24 richardlhess Offline Send Email For at least some measurements on machine performance, it's worthwhile to take a look at http://www.jackendino.com/graphs/ There's a mixture of 2-track and 24-track in this. I really like my APR-16 (1" 16T and other formats) and a client was very pleased recently when I digitized his 1/2" 16T tape on this machine with outboard Dolby 422 processors. It has been recorded on a Fostex and he had messed up with turning the Dolby on for some tracks and not for others. The Fostex switches tracks 1-15 together, which makes mixing these tapes from that machine (or doing a digital transfer) impossible. So...I like my version of the APR-24, but parts are scarce -- I got mine only because I may have the largest cache of APR-5000 machines in North America and many of the parts are common. Switches in the remote are a big issue, I think, but I haven't seen that, but I'm not doing tracking on my machine, just digitization. Cheers, Richard At 01:11 PM 2008-04-17, Justin wrote: >I'm looking to buy a 2" 24 track and an APR24 has come up. I love my >APR5003v for >mixdowns, and IMO once properly set up it out-performs most other >"pro" machines I've >used. Is there anything I should look for or beware of? > >Does anyone have any thoughts on how an APR24 compares to the more popular UK >choices of Otari & Studer? I've also been offered a nice Lyrec 533 >but I think spares could >be a real nightmare with that one? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1524 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:56 pm Subject: RE: Buying an APR24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I have purchased one of these on eBay a year or so ago. I paid about $3000 US for it, and the condition was excellent. There was a minor dent in the rear panel and some very minor paint scrapes on the front doors. While I disassembled it very thoroughly before powering it up to clean everything with compressed air and check for missing or loose screws and the like, when reassembled it worked without any problems at all. That said, I got the serial number before bidding, checked the maintenance history, checked out the seller, etc. It had originally been at Sony music studios. The sound quality is excellent in all regards. Most bearings are available from sources other than Sony, who doesn't support the machine. Cary on this list and myself worked at the factory, and can help in many areas. The spares to keep an APR24 working are mostly available from non-sony vendors. The head condition is something to look closely at, but the ones on the APR24 are pretty hard and wear well. They can also be relapped in the usual way if needed, but why buy into trouble. As always, buyer beware..!! Your chance of having someone try to cheat you on eBay are high if you don't do your homework. If it is just a normal (non-eBay sale) sale, then it might not be so bad. If possible, travel to see and try the machine first before buying, and never buy one without the remote. Additionally, if you can't rent a truck to carefully move the machine yourself, pay what it costs and GET THE MACHINE CRATED !! In my case the cost of the crating and shipping cost about $1100 US to bring the machine from California to Colorado, but because the crating was done properly it arrived completely undamaged, by a truck carrier of electronic equipment. The machine must be transported upright at all times. I can't make too big a point of this, the post sale transportation of the APR24 can easily make the difference between taking delivery of a fine 2" recorder or a pile of junk that all the insurance in the world can't make right again. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jooshtin Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:12 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Buying an APR24 I'm looking to buy a 2" 24 track and an APR24 has come up. I love my APR5003v for mixdowns, and IMO once properly set up it out-performs most other "pro" machines I've used. Is there anything I should look for or beware of? Does anyone have any thoughts on how an APR24 compares to the more popular UK choices of Otari & Studer? I've also been offered a nice Lyrec 533 but I think spares could be a real nightmare with that one? Many thanks, Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1525 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:01 pm Subject: RE: Buying an APR24 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Getting switches for the remote that are cosmetically the same color can be a problem, but my understanding is that as long as the color isn't that big an issue you should be OK... True, sometimes electronic parts require some creative thinking to get (as Richard points out, the APR5000 has many in common with the APR24), it can be done. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:46 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Buying an APR24 For at least some measurements on machine performance, it's worthwhile to take a look at http://www.jackendino.com/graphs/ There's a mixture of 2-track and 24-track in this. I really like my APR-16 (1" 16T and other formats) and a client was very pleased recently when I digitized his 1/2" 16T tape on this machine with outboard Dolby 422 processors. It has been recorded on a Fostex and he had messed up with turning the Dolby on for some tracks and not for others. The Fostex switches tracks 1-15 together, which makes mixing these tapes from that machine (or doing a digital transfer) impossible. So...I like my version of the APR-24, but parts are scarce -- I got mine only because I may have the largest cache of APR-5000 machines in North America and many of the parts are common. Switches in the remote are a big issue, I think, but I haven't seen that, but I'm not doing tracking on my machine, just digitization. Cheers, Richard At 01:11 PM 2008-04-17, Justin wrote: >I'm looking to buy a 2" 24 track and an APR24 has come up. I love my >APR5003v for >mixdowns, and IMO once properly set up it out-performs most other >"pro" machines I've >used. Is there anything I should look for or beware of? > >Does anyone have any thoughts on how an APR24 compares to the more popular UK >choices of Otari & Studer? I've also been offered a nice Lyrec 533 >but I think spares could >be a real nightmare with that one? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1526 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:09 pm Subject: APR PROM Synching richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Guys, I'm considering purchasing a PROM burner or two, but I'm wanting to incorporate all known PROMs from the APR series in its capabilities (as well as certain Studer PROMs--just in case they no longer sell them). As I look at the drawing Logic Flow Block Diagram on pp 7-3 and 7-4 in the APR-5000 manual, I see the "Address And Data Bus" flowing among several modules: CPU (odd/even PROMs) Transport Interface Board Keyboard/Display Local/Network Transceiver Board Connector Board One might assume that all of these have PROMs on them and if they are not synched it might explain why one of my machines with P.4.02.01.6 software behaves so much differently (i.e. refusing to run at 3.75 when all the other ones do). So, do any of you have the actual part number (or can I find that by inspection) as all the documents list the Sony pre-burned part number only. What I was hoping to do is burn a new set of PROMs from a known-good machine and put them in the machine that is marginally flaky in this regard. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1527 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:26 pm Subject: Re: APR PROM Synching ladewd Offline Send Email Hey Richard, Hope all is well. I think you're opening up a can of worms here. As you suspected, many different boards talk with one another. The two key players here are the CPU and LNT. There are flavors of CPU EPROMs that won't work with certain LNT EPROMs. As far as documentation, I know I've lost it all. I just remember what was the most stable combination and recommended it to all APR-5003V users. There were also 2 revisions of LNT boards used. One used a larger EPROM and larger RAM IIRC. Being that you have machines from just about every vintage, and configuration, its going to be hard to backtrack and find the right combinations. I certainly can't remember the last release for a APR-5003 or 5002. Perhaps you can go through your units and compile a list of what versions of CPU work with LNT EPROMs. BTW, I just picked up an EPROM burner as well. I'm not sure what I can use it for, but it was cheap. If I can help out in any way, let me know, but all I have are the EPROMs in my machine now. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Guys, > > I'm considering purchasing a PROM burner or two, but I'm wanting to > incorporate all known PROMs from the APR series in its capabilities > (as well as certain Studer PROMs--just in case they no longer sell them). > > As I look at the drawing Logic Flow Block Diagram on pp 7-3 and 7-4 > in the APR-5000 manual, I see the "Address And Data Bus" flowing > among several modules: > CPU (odd/even PROMs) > Transport Interface Board > Keyboard/Display > Local/Network Transceiver Board > Connector Board > One might assume that all of these have PROMs on them and if they are > not synched it might explain why one of my machines with P.4.02.01.6 > software behaves so much differently (i.e. refusing to run at 3.75 > when all the other ones do). > > So, do any of you have the actual part number (or can I find that by > inspection) as all the documents list the Sony pre-burned part number only. > > What I was hoping to do is burn a new set of PROMs from a known-good > machine and put them in the machine that is marginally flaky in this regard. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1528 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:22 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR PROM Synching richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, I know it's a can of worms...but not having the images of the PROMs is worse than a can of worms -- it's a can of ... nevermind. What I really want long-term are images of every PROM in every machine that I care about on my redundant servers. I was hoping that someone here would know more about this. Cheers, Richard At 05:26 PM 2008-04-19, you wrote: >Hey Richard, > >Hope all is well. I think you're opening up a can of worms >here. As you suspected, many >different boards talk with one another. The two key players here >are the CPU and LNT. >There are flavors of CPU EPROMs that won't work with certain LNT >EPROMs. As far as >documentation, I know I've lost it all. I just remember what was >the most stable >combination and recommended it to all APR-5003V users. There were >also 2 revisions of >LNT boards used. One used a larger EPROM and larger RAM IIRC. > >Being that you have machines from just about every vintage, and >configuration, its going >to be hard to backtrack and find the right combinations. I >certainly can't remember the >last release for a APR-5003 or 5002. Perhaps you can go through >your units and compile >a list of what versions of CPU work with LNT EPROMs. > > BTW, I just picked up an EPROM burner as well. I'm not sure what > I can use it for, but it >was cheap. If I can help out in any way, let me know, but all I >have are the EPROMs in my >machine now. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, Guys, > > > > I'm considering purchasing a PROM burner or two, but I'm wanting to > > incorporate all known PROMs from the APR series in its capabilities > > (as well as certain Studer PROMs--just in case they no longer sell them). > > > > As I look at the drawing Logic Flow Block Diagram on pp 7-3 and 7-4 > > in the APR-5000 manual, I see the "Address And Data Bus" flowing > > among several modules: > > CPU (odd/even PROMs) > > Transport Interface Board > > Keyboard/Display > > Local/Network Transceiver Board > > Connector Board > > One might assume that all of these have PROMs on them and if they are > > not synched it might explain why one of my machines with P.4.02.01.6 > > software behaves so much differently (i.e. refusing to run at 3.75 > > when all the other ones do). > > > > So, do any of you have the actual part number (or can I find that by > > inspection) as all the documents list the Sony pre-burned part number only. > > > > What I was hoping to do is burn a new set of PROMs from a known-good > > machine and put them in the machine that is marginally flaky in > this regard. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1529 From: "soundscapeaudio" Date: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:26 pm Subject: MCI JH Heads soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello, I was told when the time comes to replace my MCI heads with the APR series. Can anyone expand on this? Where is a good place to locate them? I shouldn't need heads for a long time but I just want to prepared. I have the JH24 machine. Thanks, Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1530 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:53 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH Heads ladewd Offline Send Email It'll probably be easier to just get MCI heads since many more of that style were made. The APR24 heads are made of amorphous steel which will last about 5 times longer than the MCI heads. The APR heads sound a bit different as well in the low frequency area. Many folks like the MCI sound better. They are totally interchangeable. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello, > > I was told when the time comes to replace my MCI heads with the APR series. Can anyone > expand on this? Where is a good place to locate them? I shouldn't need heads for a long time > but I just want to prepared. I have the JH24 machine. > > Thanks, > Tom > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1531 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:54 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH Heads ladewd Offline Send Email I forgot, the heads are only compatible with the JH24 heads. Not JH16 or earlier. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello, > > I was told when the time comes to replace my MCI heads with the APR series. Can anyone > expand on this? Where is a good place to locate them? I shouldn't need heads for a long time > but I just want to prepared. I have the JH24 machine. > > Thanks, > Tom > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1532 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:46 pm Subject: RE: Re: MCI JH Heads ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I might add that with correct adjustment and care, and TIMELY relapping, you can get a huge life span out of the original type heads. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:53 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: MCI JH Heads It'll probably be easier to just get MCI heads since many more of that style were made. The APR24 heads are made of amorphous steel which will last about 5 times longer than the MCI heads. The APR heads sound a bit different as well in the low frequency area. Many folks like the MCI sound better. They are totally interchangeable. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello, > > I was told when the time comes to replace my MCI heads with the APR series. Can anyone > expand on this? Where is a good place to locate them? I shouldn't need heads for a long time > but I just want to prepared. I have the JH24 machine. > > Thanks, > Tom > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1533 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:47 pm Subject: RE: Re: MCI JH Heads ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..yes, they have very different electrical characteristics.... ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladewd Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:55 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: MCI JH Heads I forgot, the heads are only compatible with the JH24 heads. Not JH16 or earlier. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , "soundscapeaudio" wrote: > > Hello, > > I was told when the time comes to replace my MCI heads with the APR series. Can anyone > expand on this? Where is a good place to locate them? I shouldn't need heads for a long time > but I just want to prepared. I have the JH24 machine. > > Thanks, > Tom > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1534 From: gael guilarte Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:20 pm Subject: Re: Buying an APR24 gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email --- jooshtin wrote: > I'm looking to buy a 2" 24 track and an APR24 has > come up. I love my APR5003v for > mixdowns, and IMO once properly set up it > out-performs most other "pro" machines I've > used. Is there anything I should look for or beware > of? > > Does anyone have any thoughts on how an APR24 > compares to the more popular UK > choices of Otari & Studer? I've also been offered a > nice Lyrec 533 but I think spares could > be a real nightmare with that one? > > Many thanks, > > Justin > > > justin i ll gonna do the same as you i ll gonna a buy an apr 24 real soon i know one with no hours i m sure its gonna be a nightmare to fix it but it s the cost of a bad digital recorders this days so will see ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1535 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu May 1, 2008 3:03 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello all, just seeing if anyone managed to find a DM211 for me? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1536 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Fri May 2, 2008 3:56 am Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have not forgotten about you or the DM211. Both of the BVH-2500 Sony VTR's arrived at my storage facility in Lake City, Florida which is about 4 hours north of where I am staying. I plan to be up in that area towards the end of May, but I have other resources to check for you. I appreciate your patience. Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone managed to find a DM211 for me? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1537 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri May 2, 2008 3:59 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers for that, I have brought a second machine but I need to get the first one running as its going off to someone who wants to do tape transfers, I told him it's a temperamental recorder but at least after 15 minutes, it works, at least after I replace the hall effect. Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 02 May 2008 08:56 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have not forgotten about you or the DM211. Both of the BVH-2500 Sony VTR's arrived at my storage facility in Lake City, Florida which is about 4 hours north of where I am staying. I plan to be up in that area towards the end of May, but I have other resources to check for you. I appreciate your patience. Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone managed to find a DM211 for me? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1538 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Thu May 8, 2008 11:08 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, There are four different Sony part numbers for the DM-211. Here are the variations: 8-745-001-00 DM-211A 8-745-001-02 DM-211A-L 8-745-211-00 DM-211 8-745-211-01 DM-211 The last two will probably work...they may all work. In any case, I am going to place an order and see what happens. There is a company by the name of NextTronics who supposedly stocks all of them. They are on the internet. The address is www.nexttronics.com Their telephone number is: 1-512-306-9599 The physical address is: Next Tronics 12400 West Highway 71 Suite 350-331 Austin, Texas 78738 I will let you know when I receive the parts...wish me luck! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Cheers for that, I have brought a second machine but I need to get the first one running as its going off to someone who wants to do tape transfers, I told him it's a temperamental recorder but at least after 15 minutes, it works, at least after I replace the hall effect. Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 02 May 2008 08:56 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have not forgotten about you or the DM211. Both of the BVH-2500 Sony VTR's arrived at my storage facility in Lake City, Florida which is about 4 hours north of where I am staying. I plan to be up in that area towards the end of May, but I have other resources to check for you. I appreciate your patience. Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone managed to find a DM211 for me? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1539 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri May 9, 2008 3:01 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers! I had seen this but they wanted $72 for shipping, unless I have worked things out wrong, I would be more than happy to buy 2 or more off you if you are happy to do that, cheers for now! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 09 May 2008 04:09 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, There are four different Sony part numbers for the DM-211. Here are the variations: 8-745-001-00 DM-211A 8-745-001-02 DM-211A-L 8-745-211-00 DM-211 8-745-211-01 DM-211 The last two will probably work...they may all work. In any case, I am going to place an order and see what happens. There is a company by the name of NextTronics who supposedly stocks all of them. They are on the internet. The address is www.nexttronics.com Their telephone number is: 1-512-306-9599 The physical address is: Next Tronics 12400 West Highway 71 Suite 350-331 Austin, Texas 78738 I will let you know when I receive the parts...wish me luck! Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Cheers for that, I have brought a second machine but I need to get the first one running as its going off to someone who wants to do tape transfers, I told him it's a temperamental recorder but at least after 15 minutes, it works, at least after I replace the hall effect. Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 02 May 2008 08:56 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, it's Craig. I have not forgotten about you or the DM211. Both of the BVH-2500 Sony VTR's arrived at my storage facility in Lake City, Florida which is about 4 hours north of where I am staying. I plan to be up in that area towards the end of May, but I have other resources to check for you. I appreciate your patience. Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone managed to find a DM211 for me? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.11/1422 - Release Date: 5/8/2008 5:24 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1540 From: j b Date: Tue May 13, 2008 2:06 pm Subject: APR-5000 1/2" FOR SALE justinbrowning777@... Send Email Greetings, We have an APR-5000 1/2 mastering deck in fantastic condition for sale. It is located in Chicago and comes with a Calibration Tape and Rolling Stand and owners manual. The heads are like new. All reasonable offers considered. Thanks for your time. ~Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1541 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat May 24, 2008 2:43 pm Subject: Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? ladewd Offline Send Email I've been searching for a stand for my APR. Does anyone have an extra one for sale? Thanks, Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1542 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Sat May 24, 2008 7:44 pm Subject: Re: Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email I might have one available. I can let you know in a day or so. Tom --- On Sat, 5/24/08, ladewd wrote: > From: ladewd > Subject: [sony_apr] Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:43 PM > I've been searching for a stand for my APR. Does anyone > have an extra > one for sale? > > Thanks, > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1543 From: "jjfregistration" Date: Mon May 26, 2008 1:56 pm Subject: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Hey folks. I'm having a hard time with my JH 110 C. Last night, I powered it up for the first time in about two months. After I had been cleaning it for about a minute, the play clicked off. It acted as through there was nothing in the photo cel (even though there was). No lights on the transport area lit up at all (although the stop light hasn't lit up in a while). I adjusted the photo cel sensitivity pot and that didn't work. I then unplugged the photo cel sensitivity pot and that didn't work. I should note that I saw the play light quickly go dim before going out when the thing stopped. Any help you guys can recommend? = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1544 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon May 26, 2008 3:17 pm Subject: RE: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email The first rule of thumb is always to check all the power supply rails first. If the transport power supply rails aren't right, either by having the transport logic +5 volt supply or the transport bipolar 15 volt supply rails down / wrong voltage, then nothing is going to work right on the transport. The audio power supply rails are different, so passing audio in 'input' is not a test for the transport voltages. There is also a +22 volt transport supply rail, but this is not likely involved in your issue as described. The Control logic board is one of many places you might look for problems, but a quick check of these test points will indicate if the basic voltages needed are coming from the power supply: Analog Torque board: Use pin 1 of connector P10 as ground for your meter Pin 6 of connector P4 = negative 15 volts Pin 3 of connector P4 = positive 15 volts Pin 1 of connector P14 = positive 5 volts Make sure the transport boards are seated, check fuses WITH A METER, not just visually. Fuses can become fatigued from repeated heating and cooling, and can appear good when they are not ! While the photo cell might have been the problem, it seems less likely to me. If it was something else, you have now made the situation worse. The 'edit' button (dump edit) should be able to engage the capstan roller/motor regardless of the photocell status, if that was the problem. If 'edit' doesn't work, then your problem is likely elsewhere. Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio technician' had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the time I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle tape. It took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original problem was a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine behave they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The worst of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he replaced the 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 volts couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have taken me perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to adjust them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the power supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual cause is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jjfregistration Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 11:56 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Hey folks. I'm having a hard time with my JH 110 C. Last night, I powered it up for the first time in about two months. After I had been cleaning it for about a minute, the play clicked off. It acted as through there was nothing in the photo cel (even though there was). No lights on the transport area lit up at all (although the stop light hasn't lit up in a while). I adjusted the photo cel sensitivity pot and that didn't work. I then unplugged the photo cel sensitivity pot and that didn't work. I should note that I saw the play light quickly go dim before going out when the thing stopped. Any help you guys can recommend? = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1545 From: "petersinnett" Date: Mon May 26, 2008 4:29 pm Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. petersinnett Offline Send Email Justin, In my view you probably have the classic JH110 disease, (poor contacts in the molex connectors). I have now done 2 of these, and both responded by simply removing all the boards, cleaning all the contacts and reassembling using 'electrolube', (or similar). Time consuming, but well worth it. In view of the recent working condition, I would say that doing this is likely to cure it. If however it does not, then check to see if you have the RED IC sockets on the boards. If you do, these are considered to be very undesirable and should be replaced with the BLACK variety. Peter, (Devon-UK) Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1546 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 26, 2008 8:14 pm Subject: Re: Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? ladewd Offline Send Email Thanks Tom, let me know. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio wrote: > > I might have one available. I can let you know in a day or so. > > Tom > > > --- On Sat, 5/24/08, ladewd wrote: > > > From: ladewd > > Subject: [sony_apr] Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:43 PM > > I've been searching for a stand for my APR. Does anyone > > have an extra > > one for sale? > > > > Thanks, > > Cary > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1547 From: Stephen Anderson Date: Mon May 26, 2008 8:32 pm Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. stephenaudio Offline Send Email Scott: I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a 'studio technician' No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any facility here in town. I'm just saying... Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so you know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them regularly. Steve On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio technician' > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > time > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle tape. It > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original problem > was > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine behave > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > worst > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > replaced the > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 volts > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have taken me > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > adjust > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the power > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > cause > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > Scott > > Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1548 From: "Brian" Date: Mon May 26, 2008 10:35 pm Subject: Re: Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? criticsdrmr Offline Send Email I think Tom is talking about the one I have at his place. I bought another APR5003 off of a guy in Cali in September, but he still hasn't sent it. If it ever arrives (with the stand), I'll be more than happy to sell the roll around stand from my old one. It's odd actually. I bought the unit, but he never sent it. I sent tons of emails and left probably 40 voicemails and he never picked up. Out of the blue and after I gave up (which was months ago) he emails me saying he's sending it. Of course, he didn't send, but still says he will. We'll see!!! --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Thanks Tom, let me know. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > wrote: > > > > I might have one available. I can let you know in a day or so. > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/24/08, ladewd wrote: > > > > > From: ladewd > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:43 PM > > > I've been searching for a stand for my APR. Does anyone > > > have an extra > > > one for sale? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Cary > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1549 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue May 27, 2008 12:12 am Subject: RE: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Agreed... :>) I don't lump techs together like that, as a rule. I understand this one came from Denver Co. to do the work. I am certainly in part a 'studio technician' as well. I was Chief maintenance engineer for Criteria studios in Miami for years, as well as worked later at the MCI/Sony factory. That said, the point you certainly got and always bears repeating is that sometimes techs used to pure digital gear often get lost in electromechanical equipment. Why ? Beats me. I get that some folks who are 'electronics' oriented are not 'transport' oriented... but they should know their limitations. The fundamental we tech types learned (I hope) long ago is that nothing works right when the power is wrong, and it is the easiest thing to check. In this case though, I don't see anything 'major', most likely. Given the long and sometimes painful relationship I have had over many years with these things, I'm ALMOST betting that the cooling fan on the power supply stopped, (either because of age, dust, or a loose cable behind the machine caught in it) over temping the PSU and damaging it. The pass transistors on the 'chimney' and perhaps a resistor or two? ---just a guess at best of course, and I don't usually use guesses while troubleshooting a machine. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Anderson Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Scott: I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a 'studio technician' No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any facility here in town. I'm just saying... Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so you know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them regularly. Steve On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio technician' > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > time > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle tape. It > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original problem > was > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine behave > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > worst > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > replaced the > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 volts > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have taken me > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > adjust > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the power > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > cause > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > Scott > > Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1550 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue May 27, 2008 12:29 am Subject: RE: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email ..oh, I am getting old !! Seems like there might also have been a triac there as well to crowbar the supply and pop the fuses if the pass transistor(s) shorted, usually killing the triac as well as the fuses. Perhaps I am thinking about the JH24 or the JH console supplies... I haven't looked at the 110 manual in an age. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Phillips Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:13 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Agreed... :>) I don't lump techs together like that, as a rule. I understand this one came from Denver Co. to do the work. I am certainly in part a 'studio technician' as well. I was Chief maintenance engineer for Criteria studios in Miami for years, as well as worked later at the MCI/Sony factory. That said, the point you certainly got and always bears repeating is that sometimes techs used to pure digital gear often get lost in electromechanical equipment. Why ? Beats me. I get that some folks who are 'electronics' oriented are not 'transport' oriented... but they should know their limitations. The fundamental we tech types learned (I hope) long ago is that nothing works right when the power is wrong, and it is the easiest thing to check. In this case though, I don't see anything 'major', most likely. Given the long and sometimes painful relationship I have had over many years with these things, I'm ALMOST betting that the cooling fan on the power supply stopped, (either because of age, dust, or a loose cable behind the machine caught in it) over temping the PSU and damaging it. The pass transistors on the 'chimney' and perhaps a resistor or two? ---just a guess at best of course, and I don't usually use guesses while troubleshooting a machine. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stephen Anderson Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Scott: I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a 'studio technician' No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any facility here in town. I'm just saying... Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so you know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them regularly. Steve On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio technician' > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > time > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle tape. It > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original problem > was > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine behave > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > worst > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > replaced the > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 volts > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have taken me > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > adjust > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the power > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > cause > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > Scott > > Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1551 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Tue May 27, 2008 12:50 am Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Justin, I agree with you that the dreaded 'molexia' and red IC sockets cause no end of problems... But this one sounds more like a hard failure to me, unless the control logic PCB or analog torque PCB are literally falling off. As for the molex connectors, at this late stage of the game I just replace them with identical gold plated molex connector pins, and the problem ends. I think Cary (also ex-factory) here on the list swears by just removing the shells, cleaning the male/ female parts, and bending the female side pins for increased physical contact tension. The contact problems (and the red IC sockets) are more often associated with tape 'creeping' in stop, intermittent / irregular tape tensions, and sometimes capstan motor lock issues. I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible it is contacts, just doesn't seem as likely to me. I have seen the plug going from the PSU to the transport work its way out if the holding bracket is missing though..... Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of petersinnett Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 2:30 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Justin, In my view you probably have the classic JH110 disease, (poor contacts in the molex connectors). I have now done 2 of these, and both responded by simply removing all the boards, cleaning all the contacts and reassembling using 'electrolube', (or similar). Time consuming, but well worth it. In view of the recent working condition, I would say that doing this is likely to cure it. If however it does not, then check to see if you have the RED IC sockets on the boards. If you do, these are considered to be very undesirable and should be replaced with the BLACK variety. Peter, (Devon-UK) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1552 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue May 27, 2008 11:51 pm Subject: Re: Does anybody have an extra roll around stand? ladewd Offline Send Email Brian, Cool. Maybe the guy is putting off packing it. Make sure he packs it good or else you're going to end up with a bent meter housing. Did you buy this on ebay? Let me know if you get it. I'm patient. Thanks, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" wrote: > > I think Tom is talking about the one I have at his place. I bought > another APR5003 off of a guy in Cali in September, but he still > hasn't sent it. If it ever arrives (with the stand), I'll be more > than happy to sell the roll around stand from my old one. > > It's odd actually. I bought the unit, but he never sent it. I sent > tons of emails and left probably 40 voicemails and he never picked > up. Out of the blue and after I gave up (which was months ago) he > emails me saying he's sending it. Of course, he didn't send, but > still says he will. We'll see!!! > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Thanks Tom, let me know. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Soundscape Studio > > wrote: > > > > > > I might have one available. I can let you know in a day or so. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/24/08, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > From: ladewd > > > > Subject: [sony_apr] Does anybody have an extra roll around > stand? > > > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:43 PM > > > > I've been searching for a stand for my APR. Does anyone > > > > have an extra > > > > one for sale? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Cary > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1553 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue May 27, 2008 11:51 pm Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Steve, I hope all is well. Is tech anybody we know? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Anderson wrote: > > Scott: > > I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH > 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a > 'studio technician' > > No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as > badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who > could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was > powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that > guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any > facility here in town. > > I'm just saying... > > Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so you > know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them > regularly. > > Steve > > > On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > > > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio technician' > > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > > time > > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle tape. It > > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original problem > > was > > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine behave > > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > > worst > > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > > replaced the > > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 volts > > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have taken me > > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > > adjust > > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the power > > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > > cause > > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > > > Scott > > > > > > Stephen Anderson > > SteveAudio@... > http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1554 From: Stephen Anderson Date: Wed May 28, 2008 12:36 am Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. stephenaudio Offline Send Email Hi Cary, It was just someone Scott mentioned. Clearly guys we know around here would never do anything so dumb! Steve On May 27, 2008, at 8:51 PM, ladewd wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I hope all is well. Is tech anybody we know? > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Anderson > wrote: > > > > Scott: > > > > I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH > > 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a > > 'studio technician' > > > > No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as > > badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who > > could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was > > powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that > > guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any > > facility here in town. > > > > I'm just saying... > > > > Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so > you > > know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them > > regularly. > > > > Steve > > > > > > On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio > technician' > > > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > > > time > > > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle > tape. It > > > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original > problem > > > was > > > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine > behave > > > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > > > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > > > worst > > > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > > > replaced the > > > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 > volts > > > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have > taken me > > > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > > > > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > > > adjust > > > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the > power > > > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > > > cause > > > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > > > > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > > > > > Scott > > Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1555 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed May 28, 2008 12:50 am Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I didn't think anyone would be that dumb.... but then I am amazed over and over again.... :>) ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Anderson Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:37 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Hi Cary, It was just someone Scott mentioned. Clearly guys we know around here would never do anything so dumb! Steve On May 27, 2008, at 8:51 PM, ladewd wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I hope all is well. Is tech anybody we know? > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , Stephen Anderson > wrote: > > > > Scott: > > > > I agree with all your technical points in re: troubleshooting a JH > > 110, but I have to take slight issue with your comment about a > > 'studio technician' > > > > No competent tech I know here in L.A. would have botched the job as > > badly as that one was. I mean, every tech I ever worked with who > > could do component level troubleshooting knew that TTL logic was > > powered by 5 VDC, and nothing else, like you and I do. Whoever that > > guy was, he wasn't competent to be called a studio tech in any > > facility here in town. > > > > I'm just saying... > > > > Oh, and LM7805s are $0.50 at All Electronics in Van Nuys, just so > you > > know. That's a pretty good deal, considering I still use them > > regularly. > > > > Steve > > > > > > On May 26, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Several years ago I had to repair a machine that a 'studio > technician' > > > had attempted to repair. It had just stopped, as yours has. By the > > > time > > > I got to it, it stretched tape and was scary to watch handle > tape. It > > > took me an entire day to repair properly, when the original > problem > > > was > > > a $1.75 5 volt regulator IC. In attempting to make the machine > behave > > > they had 'adjusted' every conceivable mechanical and electronic > > > adjustment, so all of them had to be set back up from scratch. The > > > worst > > > of it, when he discovered (finally) the missing 5 volts, he > > > replaced the > > > 5 volt regulator with an 8 volt regulator, thinking that the 3 > volts > > > couldn't make much difference. The original repair would have > taken me > > > perhaps 30 minutes and no adjustments. > > > > > > If you find that the supply voltages are wrong, don't attempt to > > > adjust > > > them at all until the reason is found. The adjustments in the > power > > > supply do not shift much at all by them selves, so once the actual > > > cause > > > is found they likely will require little if any adjustment. > > > > > > I'll help you if I can, but this is where I'd start... > > > > > > Scott > > Stephen Anderson SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1556 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed May 28, 2008 12:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. eddieaudio Offline Send Email If there is a list of DO's and DON'Ts somewhere, it might be a good be a good idea to distill the essence of this thread and put it in the top ten. I've taken the liberty of starting. *When troubleshooting - especially a tape machine - don't adjust ANYTHING before investigating all of the potential simple solutions. These would include:* * measure all power supply voltages * regarding power supplies, tension sensors, tachometers, etc., look for signal quality and / or noise with a 'scope. * Test and tighten screws on large electrolytic capacitors, power transistors, regulators and zener diode nuts. * Take the time to look closely for (and recognize) signs of heat, broken wires, loose connectors, cold solder joints and in particular, previous repairs. * electro-mechanical adjustments don't shift much at all by themselves - unless accidentally tweaked or unintentionally adjusted in pursuit of another problem. Translation: You can make more work for yourself by not finding the actual cause. The adjustments and circuits themselves drift very little unless there is a component failure or mis-adjustment. * Be sure to inspect the male pins on a silver-plated XLR connector and de-oxidize with an appropriate cleaner / polisher. Do the same with any mating connector. * GREEN around PCB edge connectors is a sign of excessive use of contact cleaner / sprays that come out so cold as to cause condensation. The copper under the gold does its best to preserve itself. eddie ciletti > ion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1557 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed May 28, 2008 1:00 pm Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I couldn't agree more, Eddie.... on all points. ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie ciletti Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:49 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. If there is a list of DO's and DON'Ts somewhere, it might be a good be a good idea to distill the essence of this thread and put it in the top ten. I've taken the liberty of starting. *When troubleshooting - especially a tape machine - don't adjust ANYTHING before investigating all of the potential simple solutions. These would include:* * measure all power supply voltages * regarding power supplies, tension sensors, tachometers, etc., look for signal quality and / or noise with a 'scope. * Test and tighten screws on large electrolytic capacitors, power transistors, regulators and zener diode nuts. * Take the time to look closely for (and recognize) signs of heat, broken wires, loose connectors, cold solder joints and in particular, previous repairs. * electro-mechanical adjustments don't shift much at all by themselves - unless accidentally tweaked or unintentionally adjusted in pursuit of another problem. Translation: You can make more work for yourself by not finding the actual cause. The adjustments and circuits themselves drift very little unless there is a component failure or mis-adjustment. * Be sure to inspect the male pins on a silver-plated XLR connector and de-oxidize with an appropriate cleaner / polisher. Do the same with any mating connector. * GREEN around PCB edge connectors is a sign of excessive use of contact cleaner / sprays that come out so cold as to cause condensation. The copper under the gold does its best to preserve itself. eddie ciletti > ion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1558 From: "ladewd" Date: Thu May 29, 2008 11:23 pm Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ladewd Offline Send Email I'll add something: If your signal is weak coming off of the tape or bouncing around, always drag the supply reel and make sure its not tension or head to tape contact related. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Phillips" wrote: > > I couldn't agree more, Eddie.... on all points. > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:49 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. > > > > If there is a list of DO's and DON'Ts somewhere, it might be a good be a > > good idea to distill the essence of this thread and put it in the top > ten. I've taken the liberty of starting. > > *When troubleshooting - especially a tape machine - don't adjust > ANYTHING before investigating all of the potential simple solutions. > These would include:* > > * measure all power supply voltages > * regarding power supplies, tension sensors, tachometers, etc., look > for signal quality and / or noise with a 'scope. > * Test and tighten screws on large electrolytic capacitors, power > transistors, regulators and zener diode nuts. > * Take the time to look closely for (and recognize) signs of heat, > broken wires, loose connectors, cold solder joints and in > particular, previous repairs. > * electro-mechanical adjustments don't shift much at all by > themselves - unless accidentally tweaked or unintentionally > adjusted in pursuit of another problem. Translation: You can make > more work for yourself by not finding the actual cause. The > adjustments and circuits themselves drift very little unless there > is a component failure or mis-adjustment. > * Be sure to inspect the male pins on a silver-plated XLR connector > and de-oxidize with an appropriate cleaner / polisher. Do the > same with any mating connector. > * GREEN around PCB edge connectors is a sign of excessive use of > contact cleaner / sprays that come out so cold as to cause > condensation. The copper under the gold does its best to preserve > itself. > > eddie ciletti > > ion: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 > 7:20 AM > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1559 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 30, 2008 12:13 am Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:23 PM 2008-05-29, Cary wrote: >I'll add something: > >If your signal is weak coming off of the tape or bouncing around, >always drag the supply >reel and make sure its not tension or head to tape contact related. Yes, and if the signal is weak coming off the tape, check the wrap screw adjustment. Funny how some people don't get that one. It's tricky, but it makes a real difference and you can do it better by meter on a calibration tape at high frequency than you can by eye. The APR head stack has lots of adjustments, and that's good (when you have an idea about what you're doing) and bad (when someone else doesn't have an idea of what they were doing and messed it up). I think I dislike height adjustments the most as they interact with the tilt of the head. Head alignment is so tricky. If you're uncomfortable, John French can check it and bring it in pretty close, only requiring a very minor tweak when you get it back. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1560 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri May 30, 2008 1:36 am Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email For some reason I feel the need to say something right here.... Head wrap is an adjustment that needs respect. When a head is new, or just relapped, I use a dry erase type marker and junk tape to make sure that the wear pattern is exactly in the center of the head gap. JRF does a very fine job getting this very close. I find that a slight adjustment is required from their setting. I don't know exactly why, but my experience seems to bear that out. No slight intended to JRF !!! If the head has some time on it, I use a high frequency tone on an MRL for the repro head and a ballpark setting on the record head. Then on record / reproduce of a high frequency tone I adjust the record wrap (only !!) for peak output at the play head output. For me this has always produced the best combination of head life and HF performance in the long run. Adjusting the repro head (assuming it has just been relapped or is new) for max HF response doesn't seem to lead to the best long tern head life. It might be close, but not quite. Head height is a tough adjustment, as (my opinion only !! Your mileage may vary) the height adjustments can only be made with both a spray developer for the tracks in the tape along with head alignment blocks and a very, very strong light source. Tape path must be perfect to set this correctly, and I can't caution those on list enough that this whole process requires both lots of time and experience to do correctly. If you don't have those, send it to JRF or AMP services (there may be others, DON'T limit it to my experience !!) They will at least get it close to 'just right'. Just an opinion !! Head adjustments are all so interrelated that without proper experience you can really mess up your recorder if you tamper with them. This is not to say that the factory always did it right, or that whatever you now have is right.... just that you should treat those set screws on the headstack with great respect. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:14 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. At 11:23 PM 2008-05-29, Cary wrote: >I'll add something: > >If your signal is weak coming off of the tape or bouncing around, >always drag the supply >reel and make sure its not tension or head to tape contact related. Yes, and if the signal is weak coming off the tape, check the wrap screw adjustment. Funny how some people don't get that one. It's tricky, but it makes a real difference and you can do it better by meter on a calibration tape at high frequency than you can by eye. The APR head stack has lots of adjustments, and that's good (when you have an idea about what you're doing) and bad (when someone else doesn't have an idea of what they were doing and messed it up). I think I dislike height adjustments the most as they interact with the tilt of the head. Head alignment is so tricky. If you're uncomfortable, John French can check it and bring it in pretty close, only requiring a very minor tweak when you get it back. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1561 From: Stephen Anderson Date: Fri May 30, 2008 3:26 am Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. stephenaudio Offline Send Email Being an L.A. guy, I use John Austin at Sprague Magnetics for all my head work. His refurbs come back needing azimuth, but very little and rare wrap and height adjustment. I usually do check wrap in the same manner Scott does, although I have never noticed the issue you have in just adjusting the Record head; that's very interesting. And if I'm lucky, I'll never ever have to remount a new head on a head block on an older american tape machine, model number 110 x 4 ;) Steve On May 29, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Scott Phillips wrote: > For some reason I feel the need to say something right here.... > > Head wrap is an adjustment that needs respect. When a head is new, or > just relapped, I use a dry erase type marker and junk tape to make > sure > that the wear pattern is exactly in the center of the head gap. JRF > does > a very fine job getting this very close. I find that a slight > adjustment > is required from their setting. I don't know exactly why, but my > experience seems to bear that out. No slight intended to JRF !!! > > > If the head has some time on it, I use a high frequency tone on an MRL > for the repro head and a ballpark setting on the record head. Then on > record / reproduce of a high frequency tone I adjust the record wrap > (only !!) for peak output at the play head output. For me this has > always produced the best combination of head life and HF > performance in > the long run. Adjusting the repro head (assuming it has just been > relapped or is new) for max HF response doesn't seem to lead to the > best > long tern head life. It might be close, but not quite. > > Head height is a tough adjustment, as (my opinion only !! Your mileage > may vary) the height adjustments can only be made with both a spray > developer for the tracks in the tape along with head alignment blocks > and a very, very strong light source. Tape path must be perfect to set > this correctly, and I can't caution those on list enough that this > whole > process requires both lots of time and experience to do correctly. If > you don't have those, send it to JRF or AMP services (there may be > others, DON'T limit it to my experience !!) They will at least get it > close to 'just right'. > > Just an opinion !! Head adjustments are all so interrelated that > without > proper experience you can really mess up your recorder if you tamper > with them. This is not to say that the factory always did it right, or > that whatever you now have is right.... just that you should treat > those > set screws on the headstack with great respect. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:14 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. > > At 11:23 PM 2008-05-29, Cary wrote: > >I'll add something: > > > >If your signal is weak coming off of the tape or bouncing around, > >always drag the supply > >reel and make sure its not tension or head to tape contact related. > > Yes, and if the signal is weak coming off the tape, check the wrap > screw adjustment. Funny how some people don't get that one. It's > tricky, but it makes a real difference and you can do it better by > meter on a calibration tape at high frequency than you can by eye. > > The APR head stack has lots of adjustments, and that's good (when you > have an idea about what you're doing) and bad (when someone else > doesn't have an idea of what they were doing and messed it up). > > I think I dislike height adjustments the most as they interact with > the tilt of the head. Head alignment is so tricky. If you're > uncomfortable, John French can check it and bring it in pretty close, > only requiring a very minor tweak when you get it back. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Stephen Anderson 12146 Rahn Ave Granada Hills, CA 91344 818.366.5633 voice 818.521.1105 cel SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1562 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri May 30, 2008 10:33 am Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:26 AM 2008-05-30, Stephen Anderson wrote: >And if I'm lucky, I'll never ever have to remount a new head on a >head block on an older american tape machine, model number 110 x 4 ;) Farm it out. I came to changing that brand of head after working on A77s, though my experience was 90 less than yours I enjoyed the A77s more. I hear Bill Ruck has done this a million times. I do find the APR head block extremely easy to work with which is one of the reasons it's my preferred machine for oddball work that I don't want / can't do on my A80s. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1563 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sat May 31, 2008 3:11 am Subject: Re: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. engjch13 Offline Send Email In the last year, we've had at least 10 quarter-inch headstacks make the trip through JRF. Of all 20 + heads, I think I had to tweak the wrap slightly on just 3....John's pretty damn good! I use basically this same technique for re-lapped heads (I'll have to try the dry-erase marker....grease pencils are a pain in the....). Have you had the pleasure of working on Scully head alignment? There's a 1/2-inch Scully at one studio that's got the dumbest design I've EVER seen for head mounting. Thank goodness it's very rarely used! Jeff Chestek Scott Phillips wrote: > > > Head wrap is an adjustment that needs respect. When a head is new, or > just relapped, I use a dry erase type marker and junk tape to make sure > that the wear pattern is exactly in the center of the head gap. JRF does > a very fine job getting this very close. I find that a slight adjustment > is required from their setting. I don't know exactly why, but my > experience seems to bear that out. No slight intended to JRF !!! > > > > Just an opinion !! Head adjustments are all so interrelated that without > proper experience you can really mess up your recorder if you tamper > with them. This is not to say that the factory always did it right, or > that whatever you now have is right.... just that you should treat those > set screws on the headstack with great respect. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1564 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sat May 31, 2008 11:51 am Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I used to use the grease pencils... but years ago I though... why am I putting this gunk on a tape path..? Dry erase markers seem to me to give a faster, more defined pattern. Your mileage may vary, of course.. :>) I had to work a few times on the Scully tape path. I agree, I remember thinking.. What were THEY thinking ??? Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Chestek Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:11 AM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. In the last year, we've had at least 10 quarter-inch headstacks make the trip through JRF. Of all 20 + heads, I think I had to tweak the wrap slightly on just 3....John's pretty damn good! I use basically this same technique for re-lapped heads (I'll have to try the dry-erase marker....grease pencils are a pain in the....). Have you had the pleasure of working on Scully head alignment? There's a 1/2-inch Scully at one studio that's got the dumbest design I've EVER seen for head mounting. Thank goodness it's very rarely used! Jeff Chestek Scott Phillips wrote: > > > Head wrap is an adjustment that needs respect. When a head is new, or > just relapped, I use a dry erase type marker and junk tape to make sure > that the wear pattern is exactly in the center of the head gap. JRF does > a very fine job getting this very close. I find that a slight adjustment > is required from their setting. I don't know exactly why, but my > experience seems to bear that out. No slight intended to JRF !!! > > > > Just an opinion !! Head adjustments are all so interrelated that without > proper experience you can really mess up your recorder if you tamper > with them. This is not to say that the factory always did it right, or > that whatever you now have is right.... just that you should treat those > set screws on the headstack with great respect. > > Scott > > ________________________________ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1565 From: Justin Foley Date: Sat May 31, 2008 2:32 pm Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Thanks for the suggestions with this. I¹ve blocked away some time this weekend to run some of the suggested fixes, so I¹ll get back with folks to let you know how it goes. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1566 From: Justin Foley Date: Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:26 am Subject: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Here¹s the update. I printed out Scott¹s first post about checking the power supply rails and went out to the studio. Before I could do anything, it powered up just fine but now had a new trick ­ it would only play at one speed: about 48ips. Not good. It made no difference what speed I set it on and even switching the internal/var/ext/slave switch had no effect. But the transport functions all worked. I have a parts machine and so decided to switch out the phase lock loop board. This worked, the machine now ran a solid 15ips in medium speed (I haven¹t checked the other speed but assume they¹re fine for the moment). But here¹s something I noticed ­ both before and after the switch, the PLL boards were getting really hot around ICS 3, 4 and 5. R32, R31 and R5 in particular were throwing off lots of heat. Does this make anything more clear for where the problem might be? I¹m worried that I¹ve temporarily dodged a bullet and am at the mercy of this problem even if I continue to operate as is. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1567 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:30 am Subject: RE: Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Check those voltages !!!! Particularly +5 volts Hurry ! ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Foley Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:26 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Problem with JH 110 8 Track. Here¹s the update. I printed out Scott¹s first post about checking the power supply rails and went out to the studio. Before I could do anything, it powered up just fine but now had a new trick ­ it would only play at one speed: about 48ips. Not good. It made no difference what speed I set it on and even switching the internal/var/ext/slave switch had no effect. But the transport functions all worked. I have a parts machine and so decided to switch out the phase lock loop board. This worked, the machine now ran a solid 15ips in medium speed (I haven¹t checked the other speed but assume they¹re fine for the moment). But here¹s something I noticed ­ both before and after the switch, the PLL boards were getting really hot around ICS 3, 4 and 5. R32, R31 and R5 in particular were throwing off lots of heat. Does this make anything more clear for where the problem might be? I¹m worried that I¹ve temporarily dodged a bullet and am at the mercy of this problem even if I continue to operate as is. = Justin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (22 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1568 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:46 am Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello all, just seeing if anyone has found a DM211, I know there is a place in the states as posted before bt they wanted $60+ shipping for something which fits into an envelope! Can anyone help me please on this? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1569 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:44 am Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, I have not forgotten about you. There are four versions of the DM211. I believe that I sent an email to you quite awhile ago with the Sony part numbers. In any case, I will get at least two for you. I cannot imagine that the postage would be more than $10.00. I was planning to remove one from the BVH-2500 that I have for a parts machine, but it is about 5 hours away from where I live & work. If you have the Sony part number for the hall effect component you need, I will go ahead and place an order. Many Thanks For Your Patience! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone has found a DM211, I know there is a place in the states as posted before bt they wanted $60+ shipping for something which fits into an envelope! Can anyone help me please on this? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1570 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:01 pm Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email You are a star! Let me know what I owe you! All it says on the chip and the manual is DM211, little bit vague I am afraid, sorry about that, but I have had a hall effect form a BVH-2000 and that did work. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 22 June 2008 14:44 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, I have not forgotten about you. There are four versions of the DM211. I believe that I sent an email to you quite awhile ago with the Sony part numbers. In any case, I will get at least two for you. I cannot imagine that the postage would be more than $10.00. I was planning to remove one from the BVH-2500 that I have for a parts machine, but it is about 5 hours away from where I live & work. If you have the Sony part number for the hall effect component you need, I will go ahead and place an order. Many Thanks For Your Patience! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone has found a DM211, I know there is a place in the states as posted before bt they wanted $60+ shipping for something which fits into an envelope! Can anyone help me please on this? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1571 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sun Jul 6, 2008 10:16 am Subject: RE: Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, I have narrowed it down to one part number and will go ahead and place the order. Please give me your mailing address and let me know how many sensors you need. Thank you for your patience. Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" : -------------- You are a star! Let me know what I owe you! All it says on the chip and the manual is DM211, little bit vague I am afraid, sorry about that, but I have had a hall effect form a BVH-2000 and that did work. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c.tayerle@... Sent: 22 June 2008 14:44 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Looking for a magnetic hall effect DM211 Hi Stuart, I have not forgotten about you. There are four versions of the DM211. I believe that I sent an email to you quite awhile ago with the Sony part numbers. In any case, I will get at least two for you. I cannot imagine that the postage would be more than $10.00. I was planning to remove one from the BVH-2500 that I have for a parts machine, but it is about 5 hours away from where I live & work. If you have the Sony part number for the hall effect component you need, I will go ahead and place an order. Many Thanks For Your Patience! Craig J. Tayerle -------------- Original message from "Stuart Blacklock" >: -------------- Hello all, just seeing if anyone has found a DM211, I know there is a place in the states as posted before bt they wanted $60+ shipping for something which fits into an envelope! Can anyone help me please on this? Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1572 From: "Alan DiCato" Date: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:00 pm Subject: Parting out APR-24 ajd454 Offline Send Email FYI...There is an APR-24 being parted out on ebay. I purchased a audio channel card from them for my machine. Here's the link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmydjvmm Hope this helps someone. Spares are hard to find. Alan DiCato Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1573 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:50 pm Subject: Re: Parting out APR-24 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:00 PM 2008-07-24, Alan DiCato wrote: >FYI...There is an APR-24 being parted out on ebay. I purchased a >audio channel card from >them for my machine. Here's the link: >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmydjvmm >Hope this helps someone. Spares are hard to find. >Alan DiCato The guy has a remote control with those unobtanium pushbuttons... Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1574 From: twjolly@... Date: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:16 pm Subject: Rebuilding APR-24 Remote Switches twjjolly Offline Send Email Hello group, FYI Just to advise all, we have a service process in which we dissect the old internal switch components and completely rebuild the switches in the APR-24 remote units! We were able to obtain new contact parts and proceedures from the manufacturer in Japan. The process is labor intensive, but the process completely restores dead or intermittent switches back to new life again! We stand now at 40 plus remote units restored worldwide so far, and they are working very well ! More details at _www.grssystems.com_ (http://www.grssystems.com) Regards, Joe Gianini & Ted Jolly GRS Pro Audio Systems Div. GRS Systems, LLC In a message dated 7/24/2008 10:55:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arclists@... writes: At 01:00 PM 2008-07-24, Alan DiCato wrote: >FYI...There is an APR-24 being parted out on ebay. I purchased a >audio channel card from >them for my machine. Here's the link: >_http://search.http://sehttp://search.Hope this helps someone. Spares are hard to find. >Alan DiCato The guy has a remote control with those unobtanium pushbuttons.Th Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1575 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:48 pm Subject: RE: Parting out APR-24 sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi -- Richard Hess wrote: > At 01:00 PM 2008-07-24, Alan DiCato wrote: > >FYI...There is an APR-24 being parted out on ebay. I purchased a > >audio channel card from > >them for my machine. Here's the link: > >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmydjvmm > >Hope this helps someone. Spares are hard to find. > >Alan DiCato > > The guy has a remote control with those unobtanium pushbuttons... I'm thinking there was at least one person posting to this list that needed the entire remote, wasn't there? -- Steve ======================================================== Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab - Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ======================================================== Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1576 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:08 pm Subject: Re: Parting out APR-24 ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Alan DiCato" wrote: > > FYI...There is an APR-24 being parted out on ebay. I purchased a audio channel card from > them for my machine. Here's the link: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmydjvmm > Hope this helps someone. Spares are hard to find. > Alan DiCato > I have a customer here in LA that just bought a few items at the "buy it now" price. The CPU and front panel boards were a steal. I'm sure he'll need some CNL cards, but they were too expensive for him. Also the remote was a little pricey for him. His remote sort of works, and I'm sure I can get it working. Someone took off the factory remote connector and rewired a real cheap one in its place. This machine is going to be a challenge to get working, ....but I promised a friend I'd do it. To Steve, There was someone looking for a remote about a year or two ago, Perhaps he didn't sell the machine. I've been very busy lately, so haven't been keeping up on things here. Hope everyone is doing ok. Later, Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1577 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:08 am Subject: APR-5000 Metalwork some free for shipping richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, All, I have several of the later model chassis and miscellaneous APR-5000 metalwork free for shipping (which will be more coming from Canada, eh)? Deck castings available, if anyone wants them. $25 each plus shipping. Painted cover parts in FAIR shape -- could stand a repaint. This includes the two top plates (many are sliced) and the side panels. $10 each panel plus shipping. Stand mounting brackets that mount on the chassis and hold the pivot screw. Free plus shipping. Side handles Free plus shipping. Also a couple of meter bridge chassis assemblies (no parts, no rear door) Free for shipping. Anything else you may want? I don't have any head assemblies or head trim plates available (I know that has been requested in the past). FWIW, I've parted out 12 carcasses. All other parts are going into my spares inventory, but they are going in untested which will make it a joy when I (or someone) needs something. I will dumpster/recycle a good deal of this metal if it's not claimed soonest. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1578 From: "Ki" Date: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:09 pm Subject: APR5003 Audio Problem studerfan Offline Send Email Hi, Just joined the group. One of my 5003s had been acting erratically at power up. Its tranport functions are working perfectly but I would lose CH1 after power up. Matter of fact only way to get any audio is to go to Preset 3 and I would only get CH2. It's a new deck to me but the seller claimed it worked fine before shipping it to me with all Presets setup properly for both channels. The seller is a very nice person and had the deck packed like an Olympic event going after the Gold... there was no shipping damage. I trust what he said. The ALN keypad displayed HO (Headstack off) initially but I DeOxiGold the pins and reinstalled the headstack, the ALN keypads powers up with the last speed and Eq setting selected previously with no other LEDs lit. Of course no audio with prerecorded tape running with Tracks 1 & 2 selected in the monitor. During first few hours of powering the deck up for the first time, I would get different results each time. I had thought there was a rechchargeable battery for the Preset memory but Richard advised me that it's a lithum iron battery. Strangely after leaving the deck on overnight, the deck behaves more predictably. I can hit Preset 3 and get audio on CH2 and when I adjust Level for IND 1, as I increase the value, I get audio comes in and out. It seems when I can stop the INC or DEC button while I get CH1, the value seems not to be so critical in getting the audio from CH1. Per manual, I tried to store the audio value as I was getting audio on both channels by hitting the Control and Store to lit Store LED and then hit Preset 3, but it doesn't register the new value. Instead, it goes back to earlier Preset 3 with no audio on CH1. However, when I check the Level value for IND 1 and 2 they are what I had set. Currently, I have to go through tricking Level adjustment for IND 1 to get both channel to play audio every time when I power up. Do I need to replace the battery in the CPU board? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ki in Seattle. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1579 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:53 am Subject: Re: APR-5000 Metalwork some free for shipping ladewd Offline Send Email No stands ;-( Can't you get more than $25 for the cast aluminum decks at the recycling places? You can make quite a few beer cans out of one chassis. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, All, > > I have several of the later model chassis and miscellaneous APR-5000 > metalwork free for shipping (which will be more coming from Canada, eh)? > > Deck castings available, if anyone wants them. $25 each plus shipping. > > Painted cover parts in FAIR shape -- could stand a repaint. This > includes the two top plates (many are sliced) and the side panels. > $10 each panel plus shipping. > > Stand mounting brackets that mount on the chassis and hold the pivot > screw. Free plus shipping. > > Side handles Free plus shipping. > > Also a couple of meter bridge chassis assemblies (no parts, no rear > door) Free for shipping. > > Anything else you may want? > > I don't have any head assemblies or head trim plates available (I > know that has been requested in the past). > > FWIW, I've parted out 12 carcasses. All other parts are going into my > spares inventory, but they are going in untested which will make it a > joy when I (or someone) needs something. > > I will dumpster/recycle a good deal of this metal if it's not claimed soonest. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1580 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:02 am Subject: Re: APR5003 Audio Problem ladewd Offline Send Email I know we've been communicating on the side, but before going for the shorted data line theory I've been discussing, check all your power supply rails going to the audio cards. I don't think you had mentioned to me about leaving it on all night and getting different results. Each audio card requires +/-15V +/-18V and 5V. The +/- 15V is derived from two regulator IC's on the MST card and the regulators are fed +/- 18V from the main power supply. The 5V comes from a separate regulator in the power supply, which is independent of the main 5V CPU (digital) supply. I apologize for not being able to nail this one over the internet and it appears you have a lot of troubleshooting to do. Good luck. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > Hi, > > Just joined the group. > > One of my 5003s had been acting erratically at power up. Its > tranport functions are working perfectly but I would lose CH1 after > power up. Matter of fact only way to get any audio is to go to > Preset 3 and I would only get CH2. > > It's a new deck to me but the seller claimed it worked fine before > shipping it to me with all Presets setup properly for both channels. > The seller is a very nice person and had the deck packed like an > Olympic event going after the Gold... there was no shipping damage. I > trust what he said. > > The ALN keypad displayed HO (Headstack off) initially but I DeOxiGold > the pins and reinstalled the headstack, the ALN keypads powers up > with the last speed and Eq setting selected previously with no other > LEDs lit. Of course no audio with prerecorded tape running with > Tracks 1 & 2 selected in the monitor. > > During first few hours of powering the deck up for the first time, I > would get different results each time. I had thought there was a > rechchargeable battery for the Preset memory but Richard advised me > that it's a lithum iron battery. Strangely after leaving the deck on > overnight, the deck behaves more predictably. > > I can hit Preset 3 and get audio on CH2 and when I adjust Level for > IND 1, as I increase the value, I get audio comes in and out. It > seems when I can stop the INC or DEC button while I get CH1, the > value seems not to be so critical in getting the audio from CH1. > > Per manual, I tried to store the audio value as I was getting audio > on both channels by hitting the Control and Store to lit Store LED > and then hit Preset 3, but it doesn't register the new value. > Instead, it goes back to earlier Preset 3 with no audio on CH1. > However, when I check the Level value for IND 1 and 2 they are what I > had set. > > Currently, I have to go through tricking Level adjustment for IND 1 > to get both channel to play audio every time when I power up. > > Do I need to replace the battery in the CPU board? > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Ki > in Seattle. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1581 From: "Ki" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:20 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 Audio Problem studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Cary: It is very nice of you to spend time to help an APR newbie such as me. The PS rails to the audio cards were good. I also swaped CH1 and CH2 card position and the problem stayed with CH1. Thus, both audio cards are not the issue. I took the MST card out for quick inspection and put it back in the rack. All of sudden, I had audio on both channels. The ALN functions worked and I was able to adjust Repro and Record Levels and make a quick copy of tape from a CD source. Even without the bias and other adjustment (I was using the same type of tape as it was configured earlier), the result was excellent sonically. Remembering some dust on left sides of audio cards from the fan intake, I took the audio and MST cards out once again to clean and put all the cards back. To my disappointment, the deck displayed HO error message at power up with all ALN functions disabled... But fortunately, when I removed the headstack to double check the dip switches and put it back in its place, the HO message disappeared and the deck remembered all the Preset values. No HO message and both audio channels worked well. Now, I am afraid to turn the power off... ;-) There must be a lose part or connection in the MST board. I will continue to observe and put the MST card in the extension card and try to indentify the source of HO message. I will look at the schematic and see if there's a power source for headstack from MST card. Thanks again, Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I know we've been communicating on the side, but before going for the shorted data line > theory I've been discussing, check all your power supply rails going to the audio cards. I > don't think you had mentioned to me about leaving it on all night and getting different > results. Each audio card requires +/-15V +/-18V and 5V. The +/- 15V is derived from > two regulator IC's on the MST card and the regulators are fed +/- 18V from the main > power supply. The 5V comes from a separate regulator in the power supply, which is > independent of the main 5V CPU (digital) supply. I apologize for not being able to nail this > one over the internet and it appears you have a lot of troubleshooting to do. Good luck. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1582 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:41 am Subject: Re: Re: APR5003 Audio Problem richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Kai, As you may have figured out, this whole deck is put together with ribbon cables. Lots of tiny connectors. Look at the back of the align board and make sure that the two headers are pushed all the way down (they should be covered with a small plastic cover at the "top" left of the align board). The smaller ribbon appears to provide both head info and power to the ALN panel. Check it on the head and also on the power supply connector 910, make sure it's properly seated. Take some time with this ribbon. It should be fine on the unobtanium head connector, but check the two IDC connectors on the ribbon and make sure they're not damaged and make sure they are both seated. Cheers, Richard At 11:20 PM 2008-08-23, Ki wrote: >Hi Cary: > >It is very nice of you to spend time to help an APR newbie such as me. > >The PS rails to the audio cards were good. I also swaped CH1 and CH2 >card position and the problem stayed with CH1. Thus, both audio >cards are not the issue. I took the MST card out for quick >inspection and put it back in the rack. > >All of sudden, I had audio on both channels. The ALN functions >worked and I was able to adjust Repro and Record Levels and make a >quick copy of tape from a CD source. Even without the bias and other >adjustment (I was using the same type of tape as it was configured >earlier), the result was excellent sonically. > >Remembering some dust on left sides of audio cards from the fan >intake, I took the audio and MST cards out once again to clean and >put all the cards back. > >To my disappointment, the deck displayed HO error message at power up >with all ALN functions disabled... But fortunately, when I removed >the headstack to double check the dip switches and put it back in its >place, the HO message disappeared and the deck remembered all the >Preset values. No HO message and both audio channels worked well. >Now, I am afraid to turn the power off... ;-) > >There must be a lose part or connection in the MST board. I will >continue to observe and put the MST card in the extension card and >try to indentify the source of HO message. I will look at the >schematic and see if there's a power source for headstack from MST >card. > >Thanks again, > >Ki >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > I know we've been communicating on the side, but before going for >the shorted data line > > theory I've been discussing, check all your power supply rails >going to the audio cards. I > > don't think you had mentioned to me about leaving it on all night >and getting different > > results. Each audio card requires +/-15V +/-18V and 5V. The +/- >15V is derived from > > two regulator IC's on the MST card and the regulators are fed +/- >18V from the main > > power supply. The 5V comes from a separate regulator in the power >supply, which is > > independent of the main 5V CPU (digital) supply. I apologize for >not being able to nail this > > one over the internet and it appears you have a lot of >troubleshooting to do. Good luck. > > > > Cary > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1583 From: "Ki" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:48 am Subject: Re: APR5003 Audio Problem studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Richard: Per your advice, I opened the back and pushed in all he ribbon connector headers and power connectors. Since then unfortunately, the deck is consistantly displaying the error message HO as it did when I first turned its power on. Removing the headstack and reinstalling is not erasing the HO message as it did before. Although the deck is stuck at the lowest speed (while mid speed LED lit), it is playing music on both CH1 and CH2. The ALN keys don't work other than the Store button. I can not change EQ or set it to different speeds, etc. I guess it's good that the deck is no longer erratic...although it's still sick. Please see what I found below regarding your comments: > Look at the back of the align board and make sure that the two > headers are pushed all the way down (they should be covered with a > small plastic cover at the "top" left of the align board). Yes, both headers at the ALN board are good and soild. > > The smaller ribbon appears to provide both head info and power to the > ALN panel. Check it on the head and also on the power supply > connector 910, make sure it's properly seated. Take some time with > this ribbon. It should be fine on the unobtanium head connector, but > check the two IDC connectors on the ribbon and make sure they're not > damaged and make sure they are both seated. I opened the bottom cover to follow the two ribbon cables from ALN to 910 connectors and the larger one to the back of the card rack near the MST board. They are all secure and sound. I pull them out and reinserted them to be sure. The CNJ 910 had +4.95V for +5 Logic 2. The only suspect in the PDB is that +5V Logic 1 at the CNJ903 from regulator is marginally 4.79 to 4.81V. It seems Logic 1 voltage is very close the lower limit of 4.75V for logic supply. Could it be the source of the problem? Thanks, Ki > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:20 PM 2008-08-23, Ki wrote: > >Hi Cary: > > > >It is very nice of you to spend time to help an APR newbie such as me. > > > >The PS rails to the audio cards were good. I also swaped CH1 and CH2 > >card position and the problem stayed with CH1. Thus, both audio > >cards are not the issue. I took the MST card out for quick > >inspection and put it back in the rack. > > > >All of sudden, I had audio on both channels. The ALN functions > >worked and I was able to adjust Repro and Record Levels and make a > >quick copy of tape from a CD source. Even without the bias and other > >adjustment (I was using the same type of tape as it was configured > >earlier), the result was excellent sonically. > > > >Remembering some dust on left sides of audio cards from the fan > >intake, I took the audio and MST cards out once again to clean and > >put all the cards back. > > > >To my disappointment, the deck displayed HO error message at power up > >with all ALN functions disabled... But fortunately, when I removed > >the headstack to double check the dip switches and put it back in its > >place, the HO message disappeared and the deck remembered all the > >Preset values. No HO message and both audio channels worked well. > >Now, I am afraid to turn the power off... ;-) > > > >There must be a lose part or connection in the MST board. I will > >continue to observe and put the MST card in the extension card and > >try to indentify the source of HO message. I will look at the > >schematic and see if there's a power source for headstack from MST > >card. > > > >Thanks again, > > > >Ki > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > I know we've been communicating on the side, but before going for > >the shorted data line > > > theory I've been discussing, check all your power supply rails > >going to the audio cards. I > > > don't think you had mentioned to me about leaving it on all night > >and getting different > > > results. Each audio card requires +/-15V +/-18V and 5V. The +/- > >15V is derived from > > > two regulator IC's on the MST card and the regulators are fed +/- > >18V from the main > > > power supply. The 5V comes from a separate regulator in the power > >supply, which is > > > independent of the main 5V CPU (digital) supply. I apologize for > >not being able to nail this > > > one over the internet and it appears you have a lot of > >troubleshooting to do. Good luck. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1584 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:07 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5003 Audio Problem richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ki, Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit of an issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type DMM) in the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was flaky at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard power supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your voltage is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is something wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power supply on the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with them, I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about 4 decks were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but that's about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a cable ass'y, I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from the head is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I don't want to part with. Cheers, Richard At 04:48 AM 2008-08-24, Ki wrote: >Hi Richard: > >Per your advice, I opened the back and pushed in all he ribbon >connector headers and power connectors. > >Since then unfortunately, the deck is consistantly displaying the >error message HO as it did when I first turned its power on. >Removing the headstack and reinstalling is not erasing the HO message >as it did before. > >Although the deck is stuck at the lowest speed (while mid speed LED >lit), it is playing music on both CH1 and CH2. The ALN keys don't >work other than the Store button. I can not change EQ or set it to >different speeds, etc. > >I guess it's good that the deck is no longer erratic...although it's >still sick. Please see what I found below regarding your comments: > > > Look at the back of the align board and make sure that the two > > headers are pushed all the way down (they should be covered with a > > small plastic cover at the "top" left of the align board). > >Yes, both headers at the ALN board are good and soild. > > > > > The smaller ribbon appears to provide both head info and power to >the > > ALN panel. Check it on the head and also on the power supply > > connector 910, make sure it's properly seated. Take some time with > > this ribbon. It should be fine on the unobtanium head connector, >but > > check the two IDC connectors on the ribbon and make sure they're >not > > damaged and make sure they are both seated. > >I opened the bottom cover to follow the two ribbon cables from ALN to >910 connectors and the larger one to the back of the card rack near >the MST board. They are all secure and sound. I pull them out and >reinserted them to be sure. > >The CNJ 910 had +4.95V for +5 Logic 2. > >The only suspect in the PDB is that +5V Logic 1 at the CNJ903 from >regulator is marginally 4.79 to 4.81V. It seems Logic 1 voltage is >very close the lower limit of 4.75V for logic supply. > >Could it be the source of the problem? > >Thanks, > >Ki > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 11:20 PM 2008-08-23, Ki wrote: > > >Hi Cary: > > > > > >It is very nice of you to spend time to help an APR newbie such as >me. > > > > > >The PS rails to the audio cards were good. I also swaped CH1 and >CH2 > > >card position and the problem stayed with CH1. Thus, both audio > > >cards are not the issue. I took the MST card out for quick > > >inspection and put it back in the rack. > > > > > >All of sudden, I had audio on both channels. The ALN functions > > >worked and I was able to adjust Repro and Record Levels and make a > > >quick copy of tape from a CD source. Even without the bias and >other > > >adjustment (I was using the same type of tape as it was configured > > >earlier), the result was excellent sonically. > > > > > >Remembering some dust on left sides of audio cards from the fan > > >intake, I took the audio and MST cards out once again to clean and > > >put all the cards back. > > > > > >To my disappointment, the deck displayed HO error message at power >up > > >with all ALN functions disabled... But fortunately, when I removed > > >the headstack to double check the dip switches and put it back in >its > > >place, the HO message disappeared and the deck remembered all the > > >Preset values. No HO message and both audio channels worked well. > > >Now, I am afraid to turn the power off... ;-) > > > > > >There must be a lose part or connection in the MST board. I will > > >continue to observe and put the MST card in the extension card and > > >try to indentify the source of HO message. I will look at the > > >schematic and see if there's a power source for headstack from MST > > >card. > > > > > >Thanks again, > > > > > >Ki > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > > > I know we've been communicating on the side, but before going >for > > >the shorted data line > > > > theory I've been discussing, check all your power supply rails > > >going to the audio cards. I > > > > don't think you had mentioned to me about leaving it on all >night > > >and getting different > > > > results. Each audio card requires +/-15V +/-18V and 5V. The >+/- > > >15V is derived from > > > > two regulator IC's on the MST card and the regulators are fed >+/- > > >18V from the main > > > > power supply. The 5V comes from a separate regulator in the >power > > >supply, which is > > > > independent of the main 5V CPU (digital) supply. I apologize for > > >not being able to nail this > > > > one over the internet and it appears you have a lot of > > >troubleshooting to do. Good luck. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: >http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1585 From: "Ki" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:37 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 HO Problem studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Richard: The HO error message stayed ever since I pushed in all the connector headers in the back of the machine and finally cleared when I swapped the MST card from a good machine to the sick APR. However, the suspect MST card from the sick machine worked in the good machine... When the sick machine cleared the HO message and was working properly, I measured the Logic 1 an 2 volages. Logic 2 as well as the +5 for the audio section was good within +/- .1V and the Logic 1 had gone up to ~4.83 to 4.86V from when it had HO error at ~4.79 to 4.81V. The 4.83V now it is still low but seems to be working so far. I have also measured good machine and Logic 1 was 4.90 and Logic 2 and audio was 5.02V. I believe your suspision of bypassing cap on regulator card might be the cause. Otherwise its the connections at the headstack in my opinion. Althoug the original problem was loss of CH1 audio, even now, I some times hear high frequecy winded up nosie after power up for about 20 sec as if some capacitor somewhere is not behaving properly through the monitor speakers only. The version of my APR has RGA and RGB regulator boards. I will attact the PS section when I return from my trip next weekend. Thanks to you and Cary for helping me out. It's a good thing I don't have to make a living maintaining these machines... Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Ki, > > Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit of an > issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type DMM) in > the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was flaky > at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard power > supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. > > There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your voltage > is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is something > wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power supply on > the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with them, > I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about 4 decks > were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but that's > about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a cable ass'y, > I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from the head > is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I don't want > to part with. > > Cheers, > > Richard Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1586 From: "Ki" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:27 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 HO Problem studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Cary and Richard: A bit of good news: I couln't stay away (and I am not leaving until tomorrow morning :-)) So, I dove in and removed the PS assembly. Emptied out an entire can of Duster - quite dusty it was... restricting airflow for certain. After careful reinstallation, the APR still worked without the HO error. When I measured Logic 1 and Logic 2, I was surprised to see the volages had increased to 4.95V on both 1 and 2. The audio was 5.02V. I certainly hope that it was the marginal Logic voltages that caused the error... time will tell. Thanks again both of you. Regards, Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > Hi Richard: > > The HO error message stayed ever since I pushed in all the connector > headers in the back of the machine and finally cleared when I swapped > the MST card from a good machine to the sick APR. However, the > suspect MST card from the sick machine worked in the good machine... > > When the sick machine cleared the HO message and was working > properly, I measured the Logic 1 an 2 volages. Logic 2 as well as > the +5 for the audio section was good within +/- .1V and the Logic 1 > had gone up to ~4.83 to 4.86V from when it had HO error at ~4.79 to > 4.81V. The 4.83V now it is still low but seems to be working so far. > > I have also measured good machine and Logic 1 was 4.90 and Logic 2 > and audio was 5.02V. > > I believe your suspision of bypassing cap on regulator card might be > the cause. Otherwise its the connections at the headstack in my > opinion. Althoug the original problem was loss of CH1 audio, even > now, I some times hear high frequecy winded up nosie after power up > for about 20 sec as if some capacitor somewhere is not behaving > properly through the monitor speakers only. > > The version of my APR has RGA and RGB regulator boards. I will > attact the PS section when I return from my trip next weekend. > > Thanks to you and Cary for helping me out. It's a good thing I don't > have to make a living maintaining these machines... > > Ki > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > wrote: > > > > Hi, Ki, > > > > Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit of an > > issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type DMM) in > > the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was flaky > > at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard power > > supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. > > > > There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your voltage > > is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is something > > wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power supply > on > > the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with them, > > I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about 4 > decks > > were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but that's > > about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a cable > ass'y, > > I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from the > head > > is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I don't > want > > to part with. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1587 From: Tu Ngoc Date: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:13 am Subject: (No subject) hongngocct59 Online Now Send Email Hi !!! I am using Sony APR 5000, but I don't have the catologue, so Would you like to show me how to get the catologue by internet or buy it or anotherway. I'm waiting for your informations Thank so much !!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1588 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, As a reminder, the manual is available at www.richardhess.net/apr/ Cheers, Richard At 05:13 AM 2008-08-20, you wrote: >Hi !!! > >I am using Sony APR 5000, but I don't have the catologue, so Would >you like to show me how to get the catologue by internet or buy it >or anotherway. > >I'm waiting for your informations > >Thank so much !!! > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1589 From: Tu Ngoc Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:24 pm Subject: Re: Manual hongngocct59 Online Now Send Email Hello !!! When I review or forward the tape, it doesn't stop automatically. Please could you advice me why and show me how to adjust it correctly ? Thanks. --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Manual To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 2:40 PM Hello, As a reminder, the manual is available at www.richardhess. net/apr/ Cheers, Richard At 05:13 AM 2008-08-20, you wrote: >Hi !!! > >I am using Sony APR 5000, but I don't have the catologue, so Would >you like to show me how to get the catologue by internet or buy it >or anotherway. > >I'm waiting for your informations > >Thank so much !!! > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >----------- --------- --------- ------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1590 From: Tu Ngoc Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:59 pm Subject: Re: Manual hongngocct59 Online Now Send Email Hello !!! When you have new informations about sony apr 5000, Would you like sent to C/c hoan200162@... Thank you so much. --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Manual To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 2:40 PM Hello, As a reminder, the manual is available at www.richardhess. net/apr/ Cheers, Richard At 05:13 AM 2008-08-20, you wrote: >Hi !!! > >I am using Sony APR 5000, but I don't have the catologue, so Would >you like to show me how to get the catologue by internet or buy it >or anotherway. > >I'm waiting for your informations > >Thank so much !!! > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >----------- --------- --------- ------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1591 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:09 am Subject: Re: Manual richardlhess Offline Send Email Step one: Clean out the photocell assembly (the black thing at the right of the head assembly). Blow out the bottom with compressed air (canned air will do). Then there is an adjustment on one of the control panel boards to adjust the sensitivity. The adjustment is discussed in the manual, I forget precisely where. Cheers, Richard At 10:24 PM 2008-08-24, you wrote: >Hello !!! > >When I review or forward the tape, it doesn't stop automatically. >Please could you advice me why and show me how to adjust it correctly ? > >Thanks. > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1592 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:10 am Subject: Re: Manual richardlhess Offline Send Email At 10:59 PM 2008-08-24, Tu Ngoc wrote: >Hello !!! >When you have new informations about sony apr 5000, Would you like >sent to C/c hoan200162@... >Thank you so much. There is no new information on the APRs...and if there is it will come out of discussions on this mailing list and since you're a member of this mailing list you'll see it the same as all the other members! Save the messages in your own archive. Where are you? What are you using the APRs for? How many do you have? Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1593 From: "Ki" Date: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:26 am Subject: Re: Manual studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Tu: The End of Tape (EOT) Sensor Adjustment is in the section: 6.5.14 Page 6-23 The Figure 6-26 illustration on previous page 6-22 is the EOT Sensor Position Richard mentioned. Ki > Then there is an adjustment on one of the control panel boards to > adjust the sensitivity. The adjustment is discussed in the manual, I > forget precisely where. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 10:24 PM 2008-08-24, you wrote: > >Hello !!! > > > >When I review or forward the tape, it doesn't stop automatically. > >Please could you advice me why and show me how to adjust it correctly ? > > > >Thanks. > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1594 From: "Ki" Date: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:38 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 HO Problem Solve? studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Richard and Cary: One of the things I did when I took the PS assembly out was to move the bundle of wires away from the top of the power transistor in the RGA board to allow some air to flow. I am not sure if it did any good or getting the mountains of dust out made it better but the APR is behaving normally at repeated power up, cool down and power up. The main difference is that the Logic volatage that was at marginal value at as low as 4.76V at times and fluctuating is now 4.97V and steady. I gave it a full tape playing and let it spend the night with power on with the back closed and ALN panel closed as well. This morning the heat sink in the back was hot to touch. The APR played fine again and after cycling the power it still functioned properly. I then opened the back and measured the Logic voltage at 903 and they were still 4.97V and Audio +5 was 5.02 volt. One thought is that the logic supply was very low at the PS (4.76v to 4.81V) and it was sent to headstack. By the time it went up to the headstack, there was a voltage drop - enough to be seen as HO error - if the system check up program was looking for logic high... More than likely the returned headstack signal was lower than 4.75V to be considered as logic high. The other possibility is for the power filter capacitors for the logic voltage was on their way to death and caused lower logic voltage. Having the deck powered up for the first time in a long time and using it may have revitalized the filter capacitors. I have seen it happen in vintage tube amps where the power caps would be marginal and creating ripple but got better as time went on. Am I imagining things? Thanks, Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > Hi Cary and Richard: > > A bit of good news: I couln't stay away (and I am not leaving until > tomorrow morning :-)) > > So, I dove in and removed the PS assembly. Emptied out an entire can > of Duster - quite dusty it was... restricting airflow for certain. > > After careful reinstallation, the APR still worked without the HO > error. > > When I measured Logic 1 and Logic 2, I was surprised to see the > volages had increased to 4.95V on both 1 and 2. The audio was 5.02V. > > I certainly hope that it was the marginal Logic voltages that caused > the error... time will tell. > > Thanks again both of you. > > Regards, > > Ki > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > Hi Richard: > > > > The HO error message stayed ever since I pushed in all the > connector > > headers in the back of the machine and finally cleared when I > swapped > > the MST card from a good machine to the sick APR. However, the > > suspect MST card from the sick machine worked in the good machine... > > > > When the sick machine cleared the HO message and was working > > properly, I measured the Logic 1 an 2 volages. Logic 2 as well as > > the +5 for the audio section was good within +/- .1V and the Logic > 1 > > had gone up to ~4.83 to 4.86V from when it had HO error at ~4.79 to > > 4.81V. The 4.83V now it is still low but seems to be working so > far. > > > > I have also measured good machine and Logic 1 was 4.90 and Logic 2 > > and audio was 5.02V. > > > > I believe your suspision of bypassing cap on regulator card might > be > > the cause. Otherwise its the connections at the headstack in my > > opinion. Althoug the original problem was loss of CH1 audio, even > > now, I some times hear high frequecy winded up nosie after power up > > for about 20 sec as if some capacitor somewhere is not behaving > > properly through the monitor speakers only. > > > > The version of my APR has RGA and RGB regulator boards. I will > > attact the PS section when I return from my trip next weekend. > > > > Thanks to you and Cary for helping me out. It's a good thing I > don't > > have to make a living maintaining these machines... > > > > Ki > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Ki, > > > > > > Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit of an > > > issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type DMM) > in > > > the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was > flaky > > > at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard > power > > > supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. > > > > > > There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your > voltage > > > is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is > something > > > wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power supply > > on > > > the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with them, > > > I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about 4 > > decks > > > were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but that's > > > about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a cable > > ass'y, > > > I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from the > > head > > > is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I don't > > want > > > to part with. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1595 From: "Ki" Date: Tue Sep 2, 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 Audio and HO Problem Solved studerfan Offline Send Email After a week of power down, the APR was turned on last night and it behaved perfectly without any signs of abnormality. Although blowing out huge amounts of dust may helped to cool the power supply better with improved airflow, it seems the root cause of the the HO and Audio problem was the power supply caps that were dormant and not working as they should bringing down the supply voltages. The caps were eventually reformed during my recent troubleshooting process. Now, the audio and digital power outputs are solid and stable. Thanks again guys. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > Hi Richard and Cary: > > One of the things I did when I took the PS assembly out was to move > the bundle of wires away from the top of the power transistor in the > RGA board to allow some air to flow. I am not sure if it did any > good or getting the mountains of dust out made it better but the APR > is behaving normally at repeated power up, cool down and power up. > > The main difference is that the Logic volatage that was at marginal > value at as low as 4.76V at times and fluctuating is now 4.97V and > steady. I gave it a full tape playing and let it spend the night > with power on with the back closed and ALN panel closed as well. > This morning the heat sink in the back was hot to touch. > > The APR played fine again and after cycling the power it still > functioned properly. I then opened the back and measured the Logic > voltage at 903 and they were still 4.97V and Audio +5 was 5.02 volt. > > One thought is that the logic supply was very low at the PS (4.76v to > 4.81V) and it was sent to headstack. By the time it went up to the > headstack, there was a voltage drop - enough to be seen as HO error - > if the system check up program was looking for logic high... More > than likely the returned headstack signal was lower than 4.75V to be > considered as logic high. > > The other possibility is for the power filter capacitors for the > logic voltage was on their way to death and caused lower logic > voltage. Having the deck powered up for the first time in a long > time and using it may have revitalized the filter capacitors. I have > seen it happen in vintage tube amps where the power caps would be > marginal and creating ripple but got better as time went on. Am I > imagining things? > > Thanks, > > Ki > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > Hi Cary and Richard: > > > > A bit of good news: I couln't stay away (and I am not leaving > until > > tomorrow morning :-)) > > > > So, I dove in and removed the PS assembly. Emptied out an entire > can > > of Duster - quite dusty it was... restricting airflow for certain. > > > > After careful reinstallation, the APR still worked without the HO > > error. > > > > When I measured Logic 1 and Logic 2, I was surprised to see the > > volages had increased to 4.95V on both 1 and 2. The audio was > 5.02V. > > > > I certainly hope that it was the marginal Logic voltages that > caused > > the error... time will tell. > > > > Thanks again both of you. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ki > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Richard: > > > > > > The HO error message stayed ever since I pushed in all the > > connector > > > headers in the back of the machine and finally cleared when I > > swapped > > > the MST card from a good machine to the sick APR. However, the > > > suspect MST card from the sick machine worked in the good > machine... > > > > > > When the sick machine cleared the HO message and was working > > > properly, I measured the Logic 1 an 2 volages. Logic 2 as well > as > > > the +5 for the audio section was good within +/- .1V and the > Logic > > 1 > > > had gone up to ~4.83 to 4.86V from when it had HO error at ~4.79 > to > > > 4.81V. The 4.83V now it is still low but seems to be working so > > far. > > > > > > I have also measured good machine and Logic 1 was 4.90 and Logic > 2 > > > and audio was 5.02V. > > > > > > I believe your suspision of bypassing cap on regulator card might > > be > > > the cause. Otherwise its the connections at the headstack in my > > > opinion. Althoug the original problem was loss of CH1 audio, > even > > > now, I some times hear high frequecy winded up nosie after power > up > > > for about 20 sec as if some capacitor somewhere is not behaving > > > properly through the monitor speakers only. > > > > > > The version of my APR has RGA and RGB regulator boards. I will > > > attact the PS section when I return from my trip next weekend. > > > > > > Thanks to you and Cary for helping me out. It's a good thing I > > don't > > > have to make a living maintaining these machines... > > > > > > Ki > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, Ki, > > > > > > > > Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit of > an > > > > issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type DMM) > > in > > > > the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was > > flaky > > > > at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard > > power > > > > supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. > > > > > > > > There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your > > voltage > > > > is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is > > something > > > > wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power > supply > > > on > > > > the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with > them, > > > > I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about 4 > > > decks > > > > were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but > that's > > > > about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a cable > > > ass'y, > > > > I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from the > > > head > > > > is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I don't > > > want > > > > to part with. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1596 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Sep 2, 2008 5:26 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR5003 Audio and HO Problem Solved richardlhess Offline Send Email That is indeed great news! Thanks for letting us know. Cheers, Richard At 04:37 PM 2008-09-02, you wrote: >After a week of power down, the APR was turned on last night and it >behaved perfectly without any signs of abnormality. > >Although blowing out huge amounts of dust may helped to cool the >power supply better with improved airflow, it seems the root cause of >the the HO and Audio problem was the power supply caps that were >dormant and not working as they should bringing down the supply >voltages. The caps were eventually reformed during my recent >troubleshooting process. > >Now, the audio and digital power outputs are solid and stable. > >Thanks again guys. > >Ki > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > Hi Richard and Cary: > > > > One of the things I did when I took the PS assembly out was to move > > the bundle of wires away from the top of the power transistor in >the > > RGA board to allow some air to flow. I am not sure if it did any > > good or getting the mountains of dust out made it better but the >APR > > is behaving normally at repeated power up, cool down and power up. > > > > The main difference is that the Logic volatage that was at marginal > > value at as low as 4.76V at times and fluctuating is now 4.97V and > > steady. I gave it a full tape playing and let it spend the night > > with power on with the back closed and ALN panel closed as well. > > This morning the heat sink in the back was hot to touch. > > > > The APR played fine again and after cycling the power it still > > functioned properly. I then opened the back and measured the Logic > > voltage at 903 and they were still 4.97V and Audio +5 was 5.02 volt. > > > > One thought is that the logic supply was very low at the PS (4.76v >to > > 4.81V) and it was sent to headstack. By the time it went up to the > > headstack, there was a voltage drop - enough to be seen as HO >error - > > if the system check up program was looking for logic high... More > > than likely the returned headstack signal was lower than 4.75V to >be > > considered as logic high. > > > > The other possibility is for the power filter capacitors for the > > logic voltage was on their way to death and caused lower logic > > voltage. Having the deck powered up for the first time in a long > > time and using it may have revitalized the filter capacitors. I >have > > seen it happen in vintage tube amps where the power caps would be > > marginal and creating ripple but got better as time went on. Am I > > imagining things? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ki > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Cary and Richard: > > > > > > A bit of good news: I couln't stay away (and I am not leaving > > until > > > tomorrow morning :-)) > > > > > > So, I dove in and removed the PS assembly. Emptied out an entire > > can > > > of Duster - quite dusty it was... restricting airflow for certain. > > > > > > After careful reinstallation, the APR still worked without the HO > > > error. > > > > > > When I measured Logic 1 and Logic 2, I was surprised to see the > > > volages had increased to 4.95V on both 1 and 2. The audio was > > 5.02V. > > > > > > I certainly hope that it was the marginal Logic voltages that > > caused > > > the error... time will tell. > > > > > > Thanks again both of you. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ki > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Richard: > > > > > > > > The HO error message stayed ever since I pushed in all the > > > connector > > > > headers in the back of the machine and finally cleared when I > > > swapped > > > > the MST card from a good machine to the sick APR. However, the > > > > suspect MST card from the sick machine worked in the good > > machine... > > > > > > > > When the sick machine cleared the HO message and was working > > > > properly, I measured the Logic 1 an 2 volages. Logic 2 as well > > as > > > > the +5 for the audio section was good within +/- .1V and the > > Logic > > > 1 > > > > had gone up to ~4.83 to 4.86V from when it had HO error at >~4.79 > > to > > > > 4.81V. The 4.83V now it is still low but seems to be working >so > > > far. > > > > > > > > I have also measured good machine and Logic 1 was 4.90 and >Logic > > 2 > > > > and audio was 5.02V. > > > > > > > > I believe your suspision of bypassing cap on regulator card >might > > > be > > > > the cause. Otherwise its the connections at the headstack in >my > > > > opinion. Althoug the original problem was loss of CH1 audio, > > even > > > > now, I some times hear high frequecy winded up nosie after >power > > up > > > > for about 20 sec as if some capacitor somewhere is not behaving > > > > properly through the monitor speakers only. > > > > > > > > The version of my APR has RGA and RGB regulator boards. I will > > > > attact the PS section when I return from my trip next weekend. > > > > > > > > Thanks to you and Cary for helping me out. It's a good thing I > > > don't > > > > have to make a living maintaining these machines... > > > > > > > > Ki > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Ki, > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm. I would suspect that the lower voltage might be a bit >of > > an > > > > > issue. I recall winning brownie points (and an HP pen-type >DMM) > > > in > > > > > the early days of TV character generators (1977) when one was > > > flaky > > > > > at a sports remote and I fixed it by readjusting the keyboard > > > power > > > > > supply from about 4.9 V to 5.0 V. > > > > > > > > > > There may be additional voltage drops. I don't know if your > > > voltage > > > > > is load because some bypass caps are leaky or if there is > > > something > > > > > wrong with the power supply. I've been scared of the power > > supply > > > > on > > > > > the APRs and since I haven't had a need to do anything with > > them, > > > > > I've never opened one. My son removed about 8 (already about >4 > > > > decks > > > > > were missing them) and we have them carefully stored, but > > that's > > > > > about it. I did salvage all the cables, so if you need a >cable > > > > ass'y, > > > > > I might have one, but the problem with the small cable from >the > > > > head > > > > > is it's attached to the unobtanium head connector which I >don't > > > > want > > > > > to part with. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1597 From: "cbwhite142" Date: Thu Sep 4, 2008 3:12 pm Subject: head gap leangth cbwhite142 Offline Send Email What is the head gap length for this apr 24 machine Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1598 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Sep 6, 2008 12:04 am Subject: Re: head gap leangth ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "cbwhite142" wrote: > > What is the head gap length for this apr 24 machine If you mean the rec head (and gap width) (the length is somewhere close to 2 inches). I believe it was .250 mils. Same as the JH24. If you want recommended bias settings, let me know what tape you're using. With almost every tape I tested, 2dB of over-bias yielded the optimum results at 30ips. You could go as low as 1.75dB, but my distortion measurements were better at 2dB. At 15ips, its a toss-up between 3.0 and 3.5 depending on the tape. I'm pretty sure I don't have all the specs lying around anymore, but it seemed very uniform between brands of tapes. Bias settings are not set in stone and small variations may sound better to some. Use your ears. I personally don't mind the increased distortion and like the hotter hi freqs, so I over-bias a little light. I spent way too much time analyzing and splitting hairs only to realize there was not much difference in measured distortion specs vs my burned out ears. Cary > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1599 From: "les_lmbrt" Date: Thu Oct 9, 2008 5:17 pm Subject: 1/4 track heads for APR 5000 les_lmbrt Offline Send Email Just joined the group. I have a 5003 and 6 headblocks. Lucky me? Possibly, but l what I'm trying to do is to be able to transfer tapes from the dark ages, and none of the blocks is a 1/4 inch 1/4 track. My opening question is, has anyone else explored the fitting of other brands of head to the 5000 headblock? I've tried looking for Woelke to see if they have something, but they don't show on first Google. I could probably get an Otari head from a MX55 or a Revox A or B77, but I don't think they'll fit. I only need playback, and a two track 1/4 track is what I'm trying to reproduce. Incidently I could be persuaded to part with the duplicate blocks; one of the 1/4inch 2trk plus centre track timecode, and one of the 1/2inch, though I don't have spare rollers for that. Additionally I have an Ampex ATR 100 which needs a headblock, so there's an unlikely trade for you guys. On the sticky tapes transfer issue, I found slow reverse winding with the headblock removed or bypassed by odd threading to avoid stationary guides etc, then a series of white spirit soaked pads applied between the supply roller and the first fixed guide during the transfer. Not for the faint hearted. This Heath Robinson arrangement worked fine on 1/4 in and half inch, but the material was non-critical. I had all the clients tapes baked, but had a variety of problems with shrinking leader and oozing edits, which didn't happen with the wet method. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1600 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Thu Oct 9, 2008 5:58 pm Subject: RE: 1/4 track heads for APR 5000 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email John French is the guy to go to for this, he can help you easily... http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/ Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of les_lmbrt Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:18 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] 1/4 track heads for APR 5000 Just joined the group. I have a 5003 and 6 headblocks. Lucky me? Possibly, but l what I'm trying to do is to be able to transfer tapes from the dark ages, and none of the blocks is a 1/4 inch 1/4 track. My opening question is, has anyone else explored the fitting of other brands of head to the 5000 headblock? I've tried looking for Woelke to see if they have something, but they don't show on first Google. I could probably get an Otari head from a MX55 or a Revox A or B77, but I don't think they'll fit. I only need playback, and a two track 1/4 track is what I'm trying to reproduce. Incidently I could be persuaded to part with the duplicate blocks; one of the 1/4inch 2trk plus centre track timecode, and one of the 1/2inch, though I don't have spare rollers for that. Additionally I have an Ampex ATR 100 which needs a headblock, so there's an unlikely trade for you guys. On the sticky tapes transfer issue, I found slow reverse winding with the headblock removed or bypassed by odd threading to avoid stationary guides etc, then a series of white spirit soaked pads applied between the supply roller and the first fixed guide during the transfer. Not for the faint hearted. This Heath Robinson arrangement worked fine on 1/4 in and half inch, but the material was non-critical. I had all the clients tapes baked, but had a variety of problems with shrinking leader and oozing edits, which didn't happen with the wet method. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1601 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Oct 9, 2008 6:10 pm Subject: RE: 1/4 track heads for APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Right, from a DIY standpoint, Nortronics heads will fit. Contact Joe Dundovic http://www.magneticheadcompany.com/ and see how much an 80 mH quarter-track head in the standard 5/8" cube case is. I hope he has some left. I helped clean him out six or seven years ago . Cheers, Richard At 05:58 PM 2008-10-09, you wrote: >John French is the guy to go to for this, he can help you easily... > > > >http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/ > > > >Scott > > > >________________________________ > >From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of les_lmbrt >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:18 PM >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [sony_apr] 1/4 track heads for APR 5000 > > > >Just joined the group. I have a 5003 and 6 headblocks. Lucky me? >Possibly, but l what I'm trying to do is to be able to transfer tapes >from the dark ages, and >none of the blocks is a 1/4 inch 1/4 track. >My opening question is, has anyone else explored the fitting of other >brands of head to >the 5000 headblock? I've tried looking for Woelke to see if they have >something, but they >don't show on first Google. I could probably get an Otari head from a >MX55 or a Revox A >or B77, but I don't think they'll fit. >I only need playback, and a two track 1/4 track is what I'm trying to >reproduce. >Incidently I could be persuaded to part with the duplicate blocks; one >of the 1/4inch 2trk >plus centre track timecode, and one of the 1/2inch, though I don't have >spare rollers for >that. > >Additionally I have an Ampex ATR 100 which needs a headblock, so there's >an unlikely >trade for you guys. > >On the sticky tapes transfer issue, I found slow reverse winding with >the headblock >removed or bypassed by odd threading to avoid stationary guides etc, >then a series of >white spirit soaked pads applied between the supply roller and the first >fixed guide during >the transfer. Not for the faint hearted. >This Heath Robinson arrangement worked fine on 1/4 in and half inch, but >the material >was non-critical. I had all the clients tapes baked, but had a variety >of problems with >shrinking leader and oozing edits, which didn't happen with the wet >method. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1602 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:10 pm Subject: JH-24 record lamps engjch13 Offline Send Email Does anyone know the current (or wattage) of the record / input lamps in the meterbridge of the JH-24 machine? Or better yet, a source of replacements? Thanks! Jeff Chestek Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1603 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:29 am Subject: RE: JH-24 record lamps ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I don't I'm afraid.... On the machine I own, I used led's behind the lenses. It was years ago, and I ended up using green behind the blue lenses. Today I'd use different led's for the blue ones. The red ones worked fine for record. Green behind blue has been a bit dim, but at least they always work. I used the wires from the lights, used a small series 'R', and everything fit like a glove. Bulbs on the JH24 are a hassle. I cross drilled the meter cases (carefully !) and installed the LED modules that were made for the MXP-3000 instead of the normal (and very hard to install without dropping) bulbs. I never looked back..... I've never had a single failure, unlike the identical (yeah, right) ones I tried in my 3000 console meters. Bad production run of led modules..... in the console. That said, where is anyone getting record relays for these machines.. (the big yellow ones on the strip boards...?) Sorry Tom about the off topic ! Yes, I have Pro tools HD. Scott ________________________________ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Chestek Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:10 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] JH-24 record lamps Does anyone know the current (or wattage) of the record / input lamps in the meterbridge of the JH-24 machine? Or better yet, a source of replacements? Thanks! Jeff Chestek [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1604 From: "Brian" Date: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:10 pm Subject: Re: APR-5000 Metalwork some free for shipping criticsdrmr Offline Send Email I haven't been to this group in a while. Richard... do you have a neck for the meterbridge? I had one break when my unit came back UPS. The idiot packed it with the box upside down, so UPS flipped the box back up (the machine now upside down) and the neck broke. I'll pay for shipping of course and whatever you think the part is worth. thanks! Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1605 From: "rockitrecordings" Date: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:24 pm Subject: getting into a studio in LA rockitrecord... Offline Send Email I was wondering if anyone in the group knows of any opening runner/assistant positions in the LA area? I've been trying for the last 6 months to get a position after my internship at Conway. Currently I'm working as a runner for another studio, but they only have me working one day every 2-3 weeks. I know the industry isn't looking very good right now and there's literally thousands of new audio grads a year so my chances keep getting slimmer. But, I'm pretty much open to anything to get my foot in the door and don't mind scrubbing floors and working hard for minimum wage. Thanks! Joshua comicbookjosh@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1606 From: andrew morris Date: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:20 pm Subject: Re: getting into a studio in LA amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email quite often i see internships over on gearsluts. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/jobs-offered/ --- On Thu, 11/13/08, rockitrecordings wrote: From: rockitrecordings Subject: [sony_apr] getting into a studio in LA To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 6:24 PM I was wondering if anyone in the group knows of any opening runner/assistant positions in the LA area? I've been trying for the last 6 months to get a position after my internship at Conway. Currently I'm working as a runner for another studio, but they only have me working one day every 2-3 weeks. I know the industry isn't looking very good right now and there's literally thousands of new audio grads a year so my chances keep getting slimmer. But, I'm pretty much open to anything to get my foot in the door and don't mind scrubbing floors and working hard for minimum wage. Thanks! Joshua comicbookjosh@ gmail.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1607 From: andrew morris Date: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:41 pm Subject: tape relubricating amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email Has [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1608 From: andrew morris Date: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:45 pm Subject: Re: tape relubricating amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email sorry, I was wondering if anyone had done this. http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/03/09/wet-playing-of-reel-tapes-with-loss-of-l\ ubricant-a-guest-article-by-marie-oconnell/ alcohol sounds awefully drastic. --- On Tue, 11/18/08, andrew morris wrote: From: andrew morris Subject: [sony_apr] tape relubricating To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 3:41 PM Has [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1609 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:57 pm Subject: Re: tape relubricating richardlhess Offline Send Email Marie has at length--and probably ad nauseum . I have done a limited amount of this, although I prefer D5--decamethylcyclopentasiloxane, although its application is different and it doesn't evaporate as quickly. My ARSC article his hit the mails and I'll probably have it up soon on my website. Cheers, Richard At 03:45 PM 2008-11-18, you wrote: >sorry, I was wondering if anyone had done this. > >http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/03/09/wet-playing-of-reel-tapes-with-loss-of-\ lubricant-a-guest-article-by-marie-oconnell/ > >alcohol sounds awefully drastic. > >--- On Tue, 11/18/08, andrew morris wrote: > >From: andrew morris >Subject: [sony_apr] tape relubricating >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 3:41 PM > > > > > > >Has > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1610 From: "Joshua Smith" Date: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:58 pm Subject: Re: getting into a studio in LA rockitrecord... Offline Send Email Thanks Andrew, I usually check the gearslutz boards, craigslist, entertainmentcareers.net, but haven't found much. I'm really looking to get into an audio studio. I'm currently running for one, but they don't have enough business right now to keep me on even part time. Joshua On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:20 PM, andrew morris wrote: > quite often i see internships over on gearsluts. > > http://www.gearslutz.com/board/jobs-offered/ > > > --- On Thu, 11/13/08, rockitrecordings > > wrote: > > From: rockitrecordings > > > Subject: [sony_apr] getting into a studio in LA > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 6:24 PM > > > I was wondering if anyone in the group knows of any opening > runner/assistant positions in the LA area? I've been trying for the > last 6 months to get a position after my internship at Conway. > Currently I'm working as a runner for another studio, but they only > have me working one day every 2-3 weeks. I know the industry isn't > looking very good right now and there's literally thousands of new > audio grads a year so my chances keep getting slimmer. But, I'm pretty > much open to anything to get my foot in the door and don't mind > scrubbing floors and working hard for minimum wage. > > Thanks! > > Joshua > comicbookjosh@ gmail.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1611 From: "lestergantan" Date: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:41 pm Subject: Sony APR-5003 for sale lestergantan Offline Send Email Aloha, I have an APR-5003 in mint condition for sale (complete with extender card, manual and stand). Please contact me via email if you are interested les@... Thanks, Lester Gantan www.flyinhawn.com Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1612 From: "jambirn2000" Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:30 pm Subject: Looking for APR-5000 tech in NYC!!! jambirn2000 Offline Send Email Hi, Anyone know of a tech in the New York metro area? I picked up an old APR-5000 and would like to get an estimate for an overhaul. Thanks so much - Jim Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1613 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:59 pm Subject: Re: Looking for APR-5000 tech in NYC!!! eddieaudio Offline Send Email Jim John Klett is the first name that comes to mind. If he's not the guy, he'll know someone who is... eddie ciletti http://www.technicalaudio.com/about.html > Hi, > Anyone know of a tech in the New York metro area? I picked up an old > APR-5000 and would like to get an estimate for an overhaul. > Thanks so much - > Jim > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1614 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:55 pm Subject: Re: Looking for APR-5000 tech in NYC!!! richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Eddie, I don't see contact info for John on his web page...maybe I'm just blind. Cheers, Richard At 07:59 PM 2008-12-18, you wrote: >Jim > >John Klett is the first name that comes to mind. If he's not the guy, >he'll know someone who is... > >eddie ciletti > >http://www.technicalaudio.com/about.html > > > > Hi, > > Anyone know of a tech in the New York metro area? I picked up an old > > APR-5000 and would like to get an estimate for an overhaul. > > Thanks so much - > > Jim > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1615 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:09 pm Subject: Re: Looking for APR-5000 tech in NYC!!! eddieaudio Offline Send Email Richard John is a little elusive. Click the link for an image of his email address. (I'm trying to adhere to his need to stay of the junk mail express). Tech Mecca Inc. P.O. Box 1290 Carmel NY 10512 ++1 845.225.0699 contact john klett : > > Hi, Eddie, > > I don't see contact info for John on his web page...maybe I'm just blind. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:59 PM 2008-12-18, you wrote: > >Jim > > > >John Klett is the first name that comes to mind. If he's not the guy, > >he'll know someone who is... > > > >eddie ciletti > > > >http://www.technicalaudio.com/about.html > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > Anyone know of a tech in the New York metro area? I picked up an old > > > APR-5000 and would like to get an estimate for an overhaul. > > > Thanks so much - > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1616 From: Dana White Date: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:11 pm Subject: Happy Holidays form Specialized Mastering djwaudio Offline Send Email www.specializedmastering.com * (508) 872-9478 Boston * (503) 866-8383 Portland {File:"cid:UGljdHVyZV8wODEyMjIxNjMzMTEuanBn$7729845$395206@mail"} Dana, Colin & Mike wish you a wonderful holiday season. Thank you very much for helping make 2008 a great artistic year for us. We look forward to being along for all the great music being made in 2009! With warm regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1617 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:59 am Subject: Happy Belated Christmas and Happy New Year! ladewd Offline Send Email I'd like to wish all members Happy Holidays. I haven't been hanging around here much but then its been pretty quiet. I'll assume everyone's APR''s are running smoothly. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1618 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:51 pm Subject: Re: Happy Belated Christmas and Happy New Year! rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Cary, Thank you for the holiday wishes. My dad passed away on Monday ( 12/22/08 ) & I have been working through that. Many blessings to all of the members of our group & their families. Appreciate everyone while they are still with us. Craig T. -------------- Original message from "ladewd" : -------------- I'd like to wish all members Happy Holidays. I haven't been hanging around here much but then its been pretty quiet. I'll assume everyone's APR''s are running smoothly. Cary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1619 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:16 pm Subject: Re: Happy Belated Christmas and Happy New Year! ladewd Offline Send Email Craig, So very sorry to hear of your great loss. You have my deepest sympathy. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, c.tayerle@... wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > Thank you for the holiday wishes. > My dad passed away on Monday ( 12/22/08 ) > & I have been working through that. > > Many blessings to all of the members of our group > & their families. Appreciate everyone while they > are still with us. > > Craig T. > -------------- Original message from "ladewd" : -------- ------ > > I'd like to wish all members Happy Holidays. I haven't been hanging around here much but > then its been pretty quiet. I'll assume everyone's APR''s are running smoothly. > > Cary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1620 From: "Daniel Friedman" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2009 4:48 pm Subject: APR-5003 extender card sonicdocumen... Offline Send Email Does anyone have a spare extender card for an APR-5003 that I could buy? I am pretty sure my ex-studio partner stole mine and I now have no way to align my tape deck. If nobody has one, is there someone located close to Milwaukee, WI that I could borrow one from to align the machine for an analog mixdown that I need to do ASAP (happy to put down a deposit on it)? -- Daniel Friedman The Tannery Recording Studios www.tannerystudio.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1621 From: "lestergantan" Date: Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:02 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 extender card lestergantan Offline Send Email Aloha Daniel, I have an APR-5003 with an extender card, remote and stand that I am trying to sell all together. But I am all the way in Hawaii so I may be too far to let you borrow the extender card. If you hear of anyone interested in purchasing my entire package, let me know (there are only 200-250 hours on the machine). Thanks, Lester Gantan --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Friedman" wrote: > > Does anyone have a spare extender card for an APR-5003 that I could buy? I > am pretty sure my ex-studio partner stole mine and I now have no way to > align my tape deck. If nobody has one, is there someone located close to > Milwaukee, WI that I could borrow one from to align the machine for an > analog mixdown that I need to do ASAP (happy to put down a deposit on it)? > > -- > Daniel Friedman > The Tannery Recording Studios > www.tannerystudio.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1622 From: andrew morris Date: Thu Jan 8, 2009 1:29 pm Subject: Re: Re: Happy Belated Christmas and Happy New Year! amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email I too would like to wish everyone a great new year ahead! --- On Fri, 1/2/09, ladewd wrote: From: ladewd Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Happy Belated Christmas and Happy New Year! To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 10:16 PM Craig, So very sorry to hear of your great loss. You have my deepest sympathy. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com, c.tayerle@.. . wrote: > > Hi Cary, > > Thank you for the holiday wishes. > My dad passed away on Monday ( 12/22/08 ) > & I have been working through that. > > Many blessings to all of the members of our group > & their families. Appreciate everyone while they > are still with us. > > Craig T. > ------------ -- Original message from "ladewd" : -------- ------ > > I'd like to wish all members Happy Holidays. I haven't been hanging around here much but > then its been pretty quiet. I'll assume everyone's APR''s are running smoothly. > > Cary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1623 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:20 pm Subject: Sticky Emtec SM911 ?? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Folks, Has anyone found any sticky shed (or just shed) on EMTEC SM911? I have an MRL calibration tape which MRL has graciously identified as being on EMTEC SM911. I am totally shocked as I thought this was one of the finest tapes available with little or no history of degradation. The calibration tape was manufactured 2003-03. Yes, I know I need to purchase new MRL calibration tapes, but this is indeed bad news for those tapes that we've recorded on SM911 in that time period if additional batches are subject to shedding. The shedding was not advanced, but it definitely affected high frequency performance by building up on the head during the calibration process (and introducing response anomalies due to spacing loss). I have not tried baking it, though I did once bake a much older (believed to be Ampex) MRL calibration tape and when it went through their QC process after baking, it still met specification. All reports would be graciously received. Thanks! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1624 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:56 pm Subject: Re: Sticky Emtec SM911 ?? engjch13 Offline Send Email That's a remarkably young tape to be having sticky shed! EEEK. There are a couple of rolls of NOS EMTEC sitting in the studio next door that's probably not very much newer than that, though the last time I loaded up a reel of it, it seemed fine. Jeff Chestek Richard L. Hess wrote: > > Hello, Folks, > > Has anyone found any sticky shed (or just shed) on EMTEC SM911? > > I have an MRL calibration tape which MRL has graciously identified as > being on EMTEC SM911. I am totally shocked as I thought this was one > of the finest tapes available with little or no history of degradation. > > The calibration tape was manufactured 2003-03. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1625 From: "gus79seyffert" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:01 am Subject: APR 5000 gus79seyffert Offline Send Email I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How does the sound quality compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? thanks Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1626 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:55 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 12:01 AM 2009-01-31, gus79seyffert wrote: >I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How >does the sound quality >compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? >thanks Hi, Gus, That all depends on condition. It's a wonderful machine if it's working. It's a bear to fix. The price isn't bad if it's working and the heads are in OK shape. Don't expect (but hope for) a pristine machine at that price. Which specific model is it and where was it used most of its life? What heads are on it? As far as sound goes, I did a shootout among three good-sounding tape machines. Studer A80, Sony APR-5003V, and Studer A810...that was the order they were preferred in. You can listen to the three segments at http://www.richardhess.net/clients/client_15/data/ username: client_15 password: pardipew Which one do you like best? least? What do you want to do with it? If you're going to create more analog tapes to deal with down the road, I'd suggest that it might be ill-advised (though people on this list disagree with me, but I'm seeing more and more tape horrors--see my latest posts at www.richardhess.com/notes/ ). Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1627 From: gus seyffert Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:49 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 gus79seyffert Offline Send Email wow! thanks for that. maybe i'm crazy but demo cn, and B stood out to me, which machine is which? im not sure which apr 5000 it is but it has time code.its at coast audio in hollywood and they have three of them.2 work and i can have my pick, and there tech will go through it and set it up for whatever tape i want. they also have a few Otari mx 55's for a bit more $.i have a Tascam MS-16 1" machine, a Scully 1/2" 4 track, and an old Auditronics GrandSon desk. i want a two track so i can stay all analog. i've been printing to my Scully and it sounds great but i don't know any mastering engineers that have that format. my black lion audio 002 has good converters but i don't think there good enough for a pro sounding print. i guess i can keep renting Ampex atr 100's (i cant afford my own) but im slightly obsessed with tape. but i don't have room for a tape machine that doesn't sound good and i wont use. thanks for your time Gus --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: > From: Richard L. Hess > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR 5000 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 9:55 PM > At 12:01 AM 2009-01-31, gus79seyffert wrote: > >I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a > good deal? How > >does the sound quality > >compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > >thanks > > Hi, Gus, > > That all depends on condition. It's a wonderful machine > if it's > working. It's a bear to fix. The price isn't bad if > it's working and > the heads are in OK shape. Don't expect (but hope for) > a pristine > machine at that price. > > Which specific model is it and where was it used most of > its life? > What heads are on it? > > As far as sound goes, I did a shootout among three > good-sounding tape machines. > Studer A80, Sony APR-5003V, and Studer A810...that was the > order they > were preferred in. > > You can listen to the three segments at > > http://www.richardhess.net/clients/client_15/data/ > username: client_15 > password: pardipew > > Which one do you like best? least? > > What do you want to do with it? If you're going to > create more analog > tapes to deal with down the road, I'd suggest that it > might be > ill-advised (though people on this list disagree with me, > but I'm > seeing more and more tape horrors--see my latest posts at > www.richardhess.com/notes/ ). > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess email: > richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 > 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1628 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:24 am Subject: Re: APR 5000-warning test spoiler... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:49 AM 2009-01-31, gus seyffert wrote: >wow! thanks for that. maybe i'm crazy but demo cn, and B stood out >to me, which machine is which? CN is the APR-5003v with the wideface Applied Magnetics heads (which your machine won't have, but it's still excellent with the Woelke heads). B is the Studer A80 and A is the Studer A810. > im not sure which apr 5000 it is but it has time code. That makes it a 5003 or a 5003v >its at coast audio in hollywood Coast Recording? This is good--timecode plus Hollywood = most likely out of a TV facility where they usually didn't see much use. >and they have three of them.2 work and i can have my pick, Take all three. Tell them you'll take the three for $900. You REALLY NEED TO DO THIS. There is NO support readily available for this machine and Sony trashed the spare parts years ago. >and there tech will go through it and set it up for whatever tape i want. But you need to learn to do this yourself and get some MRL test tapes. Hopefully they also have one complete manual for you. If not, fear not. http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ but PLEASE don't link to this. > they also have a few Otari mx 55's for a bit more $. What a joke. The APR-5000 is a world-class tape machine. ummm I don't think anything but PERHAPS the MTR-15 or MTR-20 from Otari would come close. The MTR-12 certainly didn't. This shows how screwy the market and Coast Recording are. >i have a Tascam MS-16 1" machine, a Scully 1/2" 4 track, and an old >Auditronics GrandSon desk. i want a two track so i can stay all >analog. i've been printing to my Scully and it sounds great but i >don't know any mastering engineers that have that format. my black >lion audio 002 has good converters but i don't think there good >enough for a pro sounding print. i guess i can keep renting Ampex >atr 100's (i cant afford my own) but im slightly obsessed with tape. >but i don't have room for a tape machine that doesn't sound good and >i wont use. Right, but you NEED to buy the set -- at least the two working ones, preferably all three. You can then use the head assemblies for other things as well--change the heads. Please do not get into APRs without buying more than one. You will do what your ears tell you to do, but from an archival standpoint, please consider making your own digital archives. >thanks for your time You're welcome--good luck with it. Cheers, Richard >Gus > > >--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > From: Richard L. Hess > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR 5000 > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 9:55 PM > > At 12:01 AM 2009-01-31, gus79seyffert wrote: > > >I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a > > good deal? How > > >does the sound quality > > >compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > > >thanks > > > > Hi, Gus, > > > > That all depends on condition. It's a wonderful machine > > if it's > > working. It's a bear to fix. The price isn't bad if > > it's working and > > the heads are in OK shape. Don't expect (but hope for) > > a pristine > > machine at that price. > > > > Which specific model is it and where was it used most of > > its life? > > What heads are on it? > > > > As far as sound goes, I did a shootout among three > > good-sounding tape machines. > > Studer A80, Sony APR-5003V, and Studer A810...that was the > > order they > > were preferred in. > > > > You can listen to the three segments at > > > > http://www.richardhess.net/clients/client_15/data/ > > username: client_15 > > password: pardipew > > > > Which one do you like best? least? > > > > What do you want to do with it? If you're going to > > create more analog > > tapes to deal with down the road, I'd suggest that it > > might be > > ill-advised (though people on this list disagree with me, > > but I'm > > seeing more and more tape horrors--see my latest posts at > > www.richardhess.com/notes/ ). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: > > richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 > > 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1629 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:42 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:49 AM 2009-01-31, you wrote: >i guess i can keep renting Ampex atr 100's (i cant afford my own) >but im slightly obsessed with tape. but i don't have room for a tape >machine that doesn't sound good and i wont use. A couple of other thoughts: I've never done a direct comparison with an ATR-100, but there are three very-expensive-on-the-used-market machines: ATR-100, A820 2 CH (Studer), and the Nagra T-Audio. I suspect that they are not significantly better SOUNDING than the APR or the A80. The A80 will better deal with damaged tapes than the APR or the ATR-100. I don't know if it's better or if the A820 is better in that regard. People who have A820s mostly claim they are better. I know several people who claim the A80 is superb -- especially the A80 RC that I have--it's claimed to sound "better" than the A80 VU. There is a guy, Ozzie, who I think is still on this list who went to the trouble of converting his APR to a 1/2-inch 2-channel unit (not too hard if you can find the parts) and he complained to me that it sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m. He raised the level and then he thought it sounded sweet. As an aside, I just transferred a tape where 0 level was marked as 400 nWb/m and it sounded good--no distortion. I don't know what it was recorded on, but I played it on the A80RC and all was fine. So, in that case, the tape machine becomes an "effect" rather than a pure storage medium. That is fine, but store digitally. Speaking of that 400 nWb/m tape, it came as part of a collection which permitted me to exercise my Sony PCM-3402 digital deck which is a cousin mechanically of the APR, but obviously with very different heads and electronics. Oddly, the label on one of the two reels said something about Dolby A on it and when I put it on the A80, I heard audio from one channel (the cassette-width cue tracks) and timecode in the other. Yick. Roll back the PCM3402... Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1630 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:40 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 sonics, tape shed etc eddieaudio Offline Send Email RE: The "sound" of tape machines... Richard, I apologize in advance if this fall out of your preferred "staying on topic" window... I too find that modern machines and modern tape tend to sound, well, not "digital" but NOT how I remember tape from the mid-seventies to early eighties. In the evolution of audio, I think most design engineers were shooting for accuracy and low distortion. And while you can argue about the "Euphonics of progress," I do think it's important to "do the homework" of knowing what you want, accuracy or color, what gear does what you need and how to get it. Digital audio, more than any other sonic "advancement" has been THE primary motivator in the retro-revival. For as much as people have had issues with "digital" during its evolution, it has increased that awareness in a good way. As Richard said, it could be as "easy" as pushing tape into the knee of saturation, which is primarily tape dependent, but also reliant on machine electronics (design and ability). But if you start with E-to-E (monitoring on input), well, it might be an interesting experiment to pass the same "reference track" through a bunch of machines, capture into a workstation, loop and alternately solo each track. From there you could then switch to repro and experiment with recording levels. Regarding the shedding Emtec 911, I have some NOS that I should check. I am using NOS Ampex 499 half-inch in a recording class (with a 3M M79/M80 4-track prototype) and it's as good as new with no baking required. I have some test tapes that are 25 to 30 years old that I bake periodically to make useful. These are 1/4 inch, spliced on to a 10-inch reel. It is fascinating to see that each tape is in a different state of arrested decay - some needing more baking time than others. (Half of these tapes were discarded by their owners when they became unusable). FWIW, the "analog" class I teach is not so much about the "romance" of tape, but the "discipline" of how tape makes you work. The idea of recording drums to ONE track of tape is a great exercise for students who are used to limitless tracks, after the fact processing (on every channel) and sample replacement. Everything is valid, but it's good to see the benefits and pitfalls of each. eddie ciletti [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1631 From: "Bob Olhsson" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 am Subject: RE: APR 5000 robertolhsson Offline Send Email > -----Original Message----- > From Richard L. Hess: ...he complained to me that it > sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m..." I co-produced a compilation last year of 50 brand new recordings by 50 famous and not so famous artists. Several of the artists absolutely insisted that their productions be done on tape. When all was said and done, by far the most "digital" and edgy sounding tracks on the album were the ones recorded analog as opposed to my own minimally signal processed digital recordings. It was quite an eye/ear-opener. Bob Olhsson 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1632 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:27 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Bob! You kinda proved my point. Any insights into why you think that was? eddie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Olhsson wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From Richard L. Hess: ...he complained to me that it > > sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m..." > > I co-produced a compilation last year of 50 brand new recordings by 50 > famous and not so famous artists. Several of the artists absolutely > insisted > that their productions be done on tape. When all was said and done, by far > the most "digital" and edgy sounding tracks on the album were the ones > recorded analog as opposed to my own minimally signal processed digital > recordings. It was quite an eye/ear-opener. > > Bob Olhsson > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com > http://womb.mixerman.net > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1633 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:49 am Subject: RE: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:04 AM 2009-01-31, Bob Olhsson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From Richard L. Hess: ...he complained to me that it > > sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m..." > >I co-produced a compilation last year of 50 brand new recordings by 50 >famous and not so famous artists. Several of the artists absolutely insisted >that their productions be done on tape. When all was said and done, by far >the most "digital" and edgy sounding tracks on the album were the ones >recorded analog as opposed to my own minimally signal processed digital >recordings. It was quite an eye/ear-opener. That is fascinating. I think many of us are starting to see (perhaps even think of) ANALOG-AS-AN-EFFECT. Like any "effect" from ping-pong stereo to toothpaste compression, it can be over-used. My friend and recording mentor, Don Ososke, and I have had endless discussions (thank goodness for unlimited minutes ) on this topic. He has embraced digital from the start as he felt that it worked for his style of recording better than analog (he's the guy who convinced me to buy a pair of DPA mics--I love what he does with them). Robert Greene's comments on the ProAudio list in the current thread about the "bad old days" are also interesting and another perspective on what Don says to me, "if you wouldn't put your ear there, why would you put a microphone there?" Don has done on-location recording in the San Francisco area for 40+ years (off-and-on) and he currently doesn't even own a mixer. The more I learned about "sound" the more interested I became in the music. In fact, while I was working at ABC-TV on W66th street, I had subscriptions to the Metropolitan Opera, NY City Ballet, and also picked up miscellaneous tickets to various other performances. I even walked out of Alice Tully Hall the one time I went to hear the organ there. Thank heavens they've finally re-done that place! Yes, and with the blessing of our music director, I pulled the choir mics out of the church. We've agreed that we'll mic the choir for two services a year--the two Christmas Pageant services where congregation noise is uncontrollable and we'll mic a frequently appearing celtic harp, but subtly, and, of course, our bi-annual "coffee house" which are the most stressful PA projects of the year! The only other exception would be singers who are used to singing with a mic, but they are guest artists, not part of our normal service music. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1634 From: "Bob Olhsson" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:08 pm Subject: RE: APR 5000 robertolhsson Offline Send Email My suspicion is that a lot of the actual difference that makes people feel analog is better is related to the greater headroom and current capability of pro analog recorders when operated at +4 line levels. I think you need to be comparing digital converters that are comparably expensive per channel to the new prices of analog tape channels in order to make a fair comparison of analog vs. digital. Moore's law doesn't apply to analog line stages! The work-around is simply to operate at lower levels with inexpensive digital gear. Many consoles make doing this difficult or even impossible. Then you add the mythology that "there must be something aesthetically attractive about tape since everybody knows it is inferior to even the cheapest digital recorder" and you have people never questioning analog degradation that is far beyond anything we would have accepted as a properly operating machine thirty years ago. Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net > -----Original Message----- > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:28 AM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR 5000 > > Thanks Bob! > > You kinda proved my point. Any insights into why you think that was? > > eddie > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Olhsson wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From Richard L. Hess: ...he complained to me that it > > > sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m..." > > > > I co-produced a compilation last year of 50 brand new recordings by > 50 > > famous and not so famous artists. Several of the artists absolutely > > insisted > > that their productions be done on tape. When all was said and done, > by far > > the most "digital" and edgy sounding tracks on the album were the > ones > > recorded analog as opposed to my own minimally signal processed > digital > > recordings. It was quite an eye/ear-opener. > > > > Bob Olhsson > > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com > > http://womb.mixerman.net > > > > _ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1635 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:39 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 eddieaudio Offline Send Email Bob It's funny, because after working in pro analog from '75 to '85 (after countless "consumer" hours of tinkering from '65 to '75) I knew all of analog tape's shortcomings. I welcomed digital's lack of noise, wow and flutter and it's ability to reproduce rock steady tones. Part of the allure is the tangibility factor - it's one giant control surfacer - everything you touch affects the sound. I know that technically perfect does not equal artistic pleasure, but no matter the recording technology, it always seems to be about sonic sculpting - not relying on particular gear but on the relationship of one sound to another. It's certainly nice to have a good reference - albeit different for everyone - some foundation with which to judge all of the other stuff. ec > My suspicion is that a lot of the actual difference that makes people feel > analog is better is related to the greater headroom and current capability > of pro analog recorders when operated at +4 line levels. I think you > need to > be comparing digital converters that are comparably expensive per > channel to > the new prices of analog tape channels in order to make a fair > comparison of > analog vs. digital. Moore's law doesn't apply to analog line stages! The > work-around is simply to operate at lower levels with inexpensive digital > gear. Many consoles make doing this difficult or even impossible. > > Then you add the mythology that "there must be something aesthetically > attractive about tape since everybody knows it is inferior to even the > cheapest digital recorder" and you have people never questioning analog > degradation that is far beyond anything we would have accepted as a > properly > operating machine thirty years ago. > > Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN > Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control > Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com > http://womb.mixerman.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf Of eddie ciletti > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:28 AM > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR 5000 > > > > Thanks Bob! > > > > You kinda proved my point. Any insights into why you think that was? > > > > eddie > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Olhsson wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From Richard L. Hess: ...he complained to me that it > > > > sounded "too digital" when he set it up for 200 or 250 nWb/m..." > > > > > > I co-produced a compilation last year of 50 brand new recordings by > > 50 > > > famous and not so famous artists. Several of the artists absolutely > > > insisted > > > that their productions be done on tape. When all was said and done, > > by far > > > the most "digital" and edgy sounding tracks on the album were the > > ones > > > recorded analog as opposed to my own minimally signal processed > > digital > > > recordings. It was quite an eye/ear-opener. > > > > > > Bob Olhsson > > > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com > > > > > http://womb.mixerman.net > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1636 From: "gus79seyffert" Date: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:29 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 gus79seyffert Offline Send Email OK.OK. ill put my stuff to digital as well... but, i love the sound of tape. it may be in my head. I'm kind of new to producing records. the first record i recorded and mixed on a tascam 388 and printed to digital.not the best result.the next 2 records i recorded to the 388, dumped it to pro tools,had it mixed and printed to an ATR.great results! of course the mixing engineer and pro gear makes a big difference. the last record was recorded to my tascam ms 16 1" , dumped and mixed in digital, printed to digital. And though it sounds good, I regret not printing to tape. I now have a setup at my home where I could feasibly start mixing on a semi pro level. I guess I thought that I'll be able to afford a better 2 track tape machine than super bad-ass digital converters. and stay all analog all the way. But you guys aren't really convincing me that the Sony is the right machine. So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or better digital converters?? thanks again for all your input and knowledge, Gus --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gus79seyffert" wrote: > > I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How does the sound quality > compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > thanks > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1637 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 12:01 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Gus, I don't know what you're trying to achieve or the type of music you're recording. The APR-5000, while it has some budget-driven and marketing-driven compromises is perhaps the last great analog reel-to-reel machine ever made. I consider it in the top half dozen reel machines available. In my tape restoration business, I use Studer A80s and Sony APR-5000s for about 85% of my reel-to-reel work. The next 10% is taken up with the Sony APR-16 for 1/2-inch and 1-inch tapes in 1/2-inch 4, 7, 8, and 16 tracks and 1-inch in 8 and 16 tracks. The last 5% of my reel-to-reel work is what I call "stupid tape recorder tricks" and I use the APRs, the Studer A810s, and some instrumentation recorders for this. Don't try this at home . My reel-to-reel work is about half of my total work. 97% of the cassette work is handled by six Nakamichi Dragons. The other 3% is again stupid tape recorder tricks. The APR is a full-bore pro machine. Nothing that you've listed below other than the ATR-100 is in the same class. The ATR-100 MAY be a bit better, or it may not. It depends on how the machine is aligned, what tape you're using, etc. I record classical and church music. I haven't used analog tape for this for a long time. I started getting excited again as soon as I got a DAT and now that I have a Sound Devices 722 digital recorder I'm in heaven. However, the new Zoom H4n that will be out in a few months MIGHT be a really good choice. This is now their third attempt and it's getting closer. That's going to run about $350 US. I'm going to probably buy one just to have around here when I don't want to take out my SD722 and the DPA 4006TL pair. Saying an entire chain "sounds good" or "doesn't sound as good" is very difficult to analyze. You really need to break things down and and understand each piece. It has taken me a lifetime to get where I am (I've taken many detours away from audio to be honest). While it's easy to focus on tools (I still do to an extent) technique and how those tools play together are far more important than the tools themselves. I have a friend who mixed a really nice folk-rock concert for PA when all he had available were SM-58s. A 2-LP set that I released on my own label in NYC in the 1970s got a very good review in The New Yorker magazine, among other places. I still have most of the mics that I used for that recording, but now I use them differently and have learned more about their flaws. I would never go back to anything approaching analog tape for tracking. I absolutely adore Samplitude, but I'm not trying to create an overloaded tape sound. You can get punch with many of the tools that come with Samplitude, and if you don't like those, you can get other plug-ins. I've been with Samplitude since I started in PC audio over ten years ago. I'm much better at it now than I was ten years ago. I also have a decent room for monitoring and that makes a world of difference. I had an acoustician-friend give me tips, but I don't put his name on the room because I made budget and functionality compromises (and a few mistakes) that would compromise his reputation, but it's certainly the best monitoring environment I've ever owned. There is a guy who records at some of the same venues I record at, and people keep telling me they like my recordings better. He allegedly has better preamps and converters than I do. I think I have a better main pair of mics than he does, but we're close. Most of the difference are the different choices that we each make in post production, I am convinced. We hear differently (and I think, but am not sure) that my room is more truthful and translates better. There are no magic bullets even if I or someone else tells you there is. Each item is a tool with benefits and shortcomings. I know this isn't what you want to hear. The entire e-musician marketing plan is based on SELL SELL SELL to people like us. I'm trying to resist. In another vein, over Christmas, my 15-year-old bought a $300 Canadian made cedar guitar. He's making the thing sing -- I liked its sound out of the box. Did I say it was an _acoustic_ guitar? He also plays tenor sax reasonably well for a 15-year old who's focusing on other career paths. He dabbles at the piano and an old e-organ we got on freecycle. The Zoom H4n would be something for him to use (no he doesn't get the SD722/DPA pair) to capture ideas and I'm also evaluating it for church recording -- nothing like buying something to see if you want to buy it . We're talking about podcasting sermons and I need something dead-simple for the volunteer sound booth operators to use. So, with all that said, I wish you the best of luck. Reel-to-reel requires a built-in technician these days. Cheers, Richard At 11:29 PM 2009-01-31, you wrote: >OK.OK. ill put my stuff to digital as well... but, i love the sound of >tape. it may be in my head. I'm kind of new to producing records. the >first record i recorded and mixed on a tascam 388 and printed to >digital.not the best result.the next 2 records i recorded to the 388, >dumped it to pro tools,had it mixed and printed to an ATR.great >results! of course the mixing engineer and pro gear makes a big >difference. the last record was recorded to my tascam ms 16 1" , >dumped and mixed in digital, printed to digital. And though it sounds >good, I regret not printing to tape. > >I now have a setup at my home where I could feasibly start mixing on a >semi pro level. I guess I thought that I'll be able to afford a better >2 track tape machine than super bad-ass digital converters. and stay >all analog all the way. But you guys aren't really convincing me that >the Sony is the right machine. > >So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt >necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or >better digital converters?? > >thanks again for all your input and knowledge, > > >Gus > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gus79seyffert" >wrote: > > > > I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How >does the sound quality > > compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > > thanks > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1638 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 12:30 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 5000 sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi Gus -- gus79seyffert wrote: > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > better digital converters?? I'm feeling reckless, so I'm going to answer you. ;-) While I haven't done direct listening comparisons between the APR5000 and ATR100, I have familiarized myself with both of them enough to feel safe in telling you the following: An APR5000 should be able to *make* an excellent recording. What you send it will all make it onto tape. This is true of pretty much any tape machine that's in its league. Playback, however, is a different story. For technical reasons, it's way easier for any analog tape recorder to put the signal on the tape than to get everything back off without losing something. So, I find that all pro analog tape machines distinguish themselves far more in playback than in record capability. If you really liked the sound of the ATR102, you might find the sound of the Sony a bit soft. It's subjective, of course. Others might prefer the softer sound of the APR. In the big picture, I think you have to be pretty fussy to care about this. I'm *very* fussy, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. OK, so you have your mixes recorded on tape by your Sony APR. And, we can now expect that what you sent to the machine is on the tape, even if playback sounds a tad softer. Now, what is important is to know what your *mastering engineer* will play your tapes on. If the mastering engineer plays your tapes into his system from an ATR102, your Sony-recorded masters will probably sound a lot like ATR-recorded masters **on the mastering engineer's ATR102**. The $400 - $1000 Sony APR purchase (do what Richard says and buy them all) then becomes a very inexpensive way to get your mixes *onto* the tape. It's the mastering engineer's machine that will much more determine your ultimate outcome. OTOH, it does you no good to mix on an ATR if the mastering engineer is going to play the tapes back on a machine that doesn't spin your fan, because that's much more the character of sound that's going to be on your CD. Does this make sense? Best, -- Steve ================================================= Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ================================================= Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1639 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 12:55 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Good points, of course, Steve! I've been to Steve's place and I can confirm, he is VERY PICKY . The APR's sound is different with the wideface vs. the Woelke heads, but not by too much as far as I can tell. All timecode machines have Woelke heads. Also, how the APR (or the ATR-100 is aligned) makes a difference. I'm talking about electrical alignment in addition to mechanical alignment. Steve, WHY do you think the APR sounds "softer" than the ATR? Gap length of the repro heads? Gap EQ settings? Try the Try Control ReproHighFreq and play with that setting a bit--it impacts Hi and Lo end, both. I set that on the 16kHz tone. As to the settings 0 and 8 are the same HF as are 7 and F. The low range changes between the 0-7 or 8-F range--very subtle but powerful in shaping the APR's response. And, since I don't think your A80RC sounds like my A80RCs--and I don't know why--we're at a loss there . I'm not sure even Steve and I fully understand what makes the "sound" -- it's such a combination of things. Also, I'm not sure how many mastering engineers are doing pristine analog playback. In fact, I'm starting to sign up a few mastering houses 'cause they think I do better-sounding transfers than they can do in-house. I'm so happy with that! Good luck! Cheers, Richard At 12:30 AM 2009-02-01, you wrote: >Hi Gus -- > >gus79seyffert wrote: > > > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > > better digital converters?? > >I'm feeling reckless, so I'm going to answer you. ;-) > >While I haven't done direct listening comparisons between the APR5000 and >ATR100, I have familiarized myself with both of them enough to feel safe in >telling you the following: > >An APR5000 should be able to *make* an excellent recording. What you send it >will all make it onto tape. This is true of pretty much any tape machine >that's in its league. > >Playback, however, is a different story. For technical reasons, it's way >easier for any analog tape recorder to put the signal on the tape than to >get everything back off without losing something. So, I find that all pro >analog tape machines distinguish themselves far more in playback than in >record capability. > >If you really liked the sound of the ATR102, you might find the sound of the >Sony a bit soft. It's subjective, of course. Others might prefer the softer >sound of the APR. In the big picture, I think you have to be pretty fussy to >care about this. I'm *very* fussy, so please take what I say with a grain of >salt. > >OK, so you have your mixes recorded on tape by your Sony APR. And, we can >now expect that what you sent to the machine is on the tape, even if >playback sounds a tad softer. Now, what is important is to know what your >*mastering engineer* will play your tapes on. > >If the mastering engineer plays your tapes into his system from an ATR102, >your Sony-recorded masters will probably sound a lot like ATR-recorded >masters **on the mastering engineer's ATR102**. The $400 - $1000 Sony APR >purchase (do what Richard says and buy them all) then becomes a very >inexpensive way to get your mixes *onto* the tape. It's the mastering >engineer's machine that will much more determine your ultimate outcome. > >OTOH, it does you no good to mix on an ATR if the mastering engineer is >going to play the tapes back on a machine that doesn't spin your fan, >because that's much more the character of sound that's going to be on your >CD. > >Does this make sense? > >Best, > >-- Steve > >================================================= > >Steve Puntolillo >Sonicraft A2DX Lab >Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers >http://www.sonicraft.com > >================================================= > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1640 From: Dana White Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 1:34 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5000 djwaudio Offline Send Email Great discussion guys! I have two APRs and ditched an ATR102 in favor of the Sony. Blasphemous to many, but I always thought the Ampex sounded wrong in the mid-range, and I couldn't get past it. I must admit, I like the extended low-end of the A80 samples you posted Richard. :-) What I have come to do is calibrate the playback response and levels on a per-project-basis, for incoming tapes. I use the MRL as a starting point, and of coarse tones on the source reel. After a while you can get to recognize when the playback EQ isn't correct by ear (I'm probably picking up on phase in the EQ). I'll occasionally make some fine adjustments on the machine while auditioning the tape. This is also true with level. The print level is critical to get correct, as there are all of the distortions of tape to be managed (HF saturation, compression, harmonic dist., noise, etc). Playback level is also important on the Sony. We have often adjusted playback levels at the machine, to suit the recording. You can get a clean repro if you use conservative output levels. Or the signal will begin to clip if you try to go out even remotely hot. I rarely use the machine to do lay-back for the "analog vibe". It's a mystery as to why some projects absolutely love going on to tape, while others, it's clearly not the thing to do! Since I have acquired Prism converters, I find that the analog lay-back is still a valuable tool on occasion. It just sounds even better now, when it works. Highest regards, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > Good points, of course, Steve! I've been to Steve's place and I can > confirm, he is VERY PICKY . > > The APR's sound is different with the wideface vs. the Woelke heads, > but not by too much as far as I can tell. All timecode machines have > Woelke heads. Also, how the APR (or the ATR-100 is aligned) makes a > difference. I'm talking about electrical alignment in addition to > mechanical alignment. > > Steve, WHY do you think the APR sounds "softer" than the ATR? Gap > length of the repro heads? Gap EQ settings? Try the Try Control > ReproHighFreq and play with that setting a bit--it impacts Hi and Lo > end, both. I set that on the 16kHz tone. As to the settings 0 and 8 > are the same HF as are 7 and F. The low range changes between the 0-7 > or 8-F range--very subtle but powerful in shaping the APR's response. > > And, since I don't think your A80RC sounds like my A80RCs--and I > don't know why--we're at a loss there . > > I'm not sure even Steve and I fully understand what makes the "sound" > -- it's such a combination of things. > > Also, I'm not sure how many mastering engineers are doing pristine > analog playback. In fact, I'm starting to sign up a few mastering > houses 'cause they think I do better-sounding transfers than they can > do in-house. I'm so happy with that! > > Good luck! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 12:30 AM 2009-02-01, you wrote: > >Hi Gus -- > > > >gus79seyffert wrote: > > > > > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > > > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > > > better digital converters?? > > > >I'm feeling reckless, so I'm going to answer you. ;-) > > > >While I haven't done direct listening comparisons between the > APR5000 and > >ATR100, I have familiarized myself with both of them enough to > feel safe in > >telling you the following: > > > >An APR5000 should be able to *make* an excellent recording. What > you send it > >will all make it onto tape. This is true of pretty much any tape > machine > >that's in its league. > > > >Playback, however, is a different story. For technical reasons, > it's way > >easier for any analog tape recorder to put the signal on the tape > than to > >get everything back off without losing something. So, I find that > all pro > >analog tape machines distinguish themselves far more in playback > than in > >record capability. > > > >If you really liked the sound of the ATR102, you might find the > sound of the > >Sony a bit soft. It's subjective, of course. Others might prefer > the softer > >sound of the APR. In the big picture, I think you have to be > pretty fussy to > >care about this. I'm *very* fussy, so please take what I say with > a grain of > >salt. > > > >OK, so you have your mixes recorded on tape by your Sony APR. And, > we can > >now expect that what you sent to the machine is on the tape, even if > >playback sounds a tad softer. Now, what is important is to know > what your > >*mastering engineer* will play your tapes on. > > > >If the mastering engineer plays your tapes into his system from an > ATR102, > >your Sony-recorded masters will probably sound a lot like ATR- > recorded > >masters **on the mastering engineer's ATR102**. The $400 - $1000 > Sony APR > >purchase (do what Richard says and buy them all) then becomes a very > >inexpensive way to get your mixes *onto* the tape. It's the mastering > >engineer's machine that will much more determine your ultimate > outcome. > > > >OTOH, it does you no good to mix on an ATR if the mastering > engineer is > >going to play the tapes back on a machine that doesn't spin your fan, > >because that's much more the character of sound that's going to be > on your > >CD. > > > >Does this make sense? > > > >Best, > > > >-- Steve > > > >================================================= > > > >Steve Puntolillo > >Sonicraft A2DX Lab > >Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > >http://www.sonicraft.com > > > >================================================= > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1641 From: "Bob Olhsson" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 3:05 am Subject: RE: Re: APR 5000 robertolhsson Offline Send Email > -----Original Message----- > From Dana White: "...I have two APRs and ditched an ATR102 in favor > of the Sony..." You are by no means the only one! Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1642 From: Dana White Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 3:28 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5000 djwaudio Offline Send Email Wow, you could push me over with a feather! I thought I was the Black sheep of mastering. Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Feb 1, 2009, at 12:05 AM, Bob Olhsson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From Dana White: "...I have two APRs and ditched an ATR102 in favor > > of the Sony..." > > You are by no means the only one! > > Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN > Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control > Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1643 From: "Gael" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 6:43 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email -- hi , everybody , i think what everybody tried to explain , there is that the apr is a really good pro machine , but we are all afraid of the maintenance issue cause pretty much hard to find parts and good technician , but the good thing is the machine is really cheap these days so it s not like you spent 20000 $ like original owner did , so you should be able to get some money using it let say 2 or 3 years without trouble that s just the way it goes now , but you ll love working on it thats for sure - In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gus79seyffert" wrote: > > OK.OK. ill put my stuff to digital as well... but, i love the sound of > tape. it may be in my head. I'm kind of new to producing records. the > first record i recorded and mixed on a tascam 388 and printed to > digital.not the best result.the next 2 records i recorded to the 388, > dumped it to pro tools,had it mixed and printed to an ATR.great > results! of course the mixing engineer and pro gear makes a big > difference. the last record was recorded to my tascam ms 16 1" , > dumped and mixed in digital, printed to digital. And though it sounds > good, I regret not printing to tape. > > I now have a setup at my home where I could feasibly start mixing on a > semi pro level. I guess I thought that I'll be able to afford a better > 2 track tape machine than super bad-ass digital converters. and stay > all analog all the way. But you guys aren't really convincing me that > the Sony is the right machine. > > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > better digital converters?? > > thanks again for all your input and knowledge, > > > Gus > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "gus79seyffert" > wrote: > > > > I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How > does the sound quality > > compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > > thanks > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1644 From: "gus79seyffert" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 4:48 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 gus79seyffert Offline Send Email Wow! thanks Steve, Dana,Richard, and every one who has posted. thats what i was hoping for.and to here that some of you prefer it to an ATR is great news. the Mastering engineers i've used so far have ATR's. if i can afford a machine that records on that level (or better), i think ill be happy.ill see if i can get a couple of them, but im running out of room in my garage.are there any parts in particular i should try to get spares for? and, i realize i need to learn to calibrate on my own.(im starting to get the hang of it). but what tape do you all like for these machines? i mostly record very laid back rock, Jazz, and vintage sounding Electro/surf/pop. and is there anything i should request of the tech to do before i take it home? Last question. and i realize this is getting a bit off topic. im pretty sold in the apr,but in your opinion is the 280 scully on the level with the apr and the atr? as i said before i have a 1/2 inch 4 track 280 that i think sounds pretty great.this may be a stupid question but can i put a 1/4" reel on it and record to the lower 2 tracks? would an atr read that?(ill ask the scully forum if no one knows) i also found a guy who will trade me a 1/2" 2 track 280 scully for my four track. how does the tape width weigh out against a machine? in other words if the apr is more of an industry standard than the scully (i dont know that it is)... is using 1/2" tape out weigh the more modern "industry standard" machine? i realize the tape width thing is hole other can of worms. some people prefer the sound of 1/4"? is this because of compression? i know some of these questions are baby talk to some of you, so thank you all for your help in finding me a sweet format to print to! Gus --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Great discussion guys! I have two APRs and ditched an ATR102 in favor > of the Sony. Blasphemous to many, but I always thought the Ampex > sounded wrong in the mid-range, and I couldn't get past it. > > I must admit, I like the extended low-end of the A80 samples you > posted Richard. :-) > > What I have come to do is calibrate the playback response and levels > on a per-project-basis, for incoming tapes. I use the MRL as a > starting point, and of coarse tones on the source reel. After a while > you can get to recognize when the playback EQ isn't correct by ear > (I'm probably picking up on phase in the EQ). I'll occasionally make > some fine adjustments on the machine while auditioning the tape. > > This is also true with level. The print level is critical to get > correct, as there are all of the distortions of tape to be managed > (HF saturation, compression, harmonic dist., noise, etc). Playback > level is also important on the Sony. We have often adjusted playback > levels at the machine, to suit the recording. You can get a clean > repro if you use conservative output levels. Or the signal will begin > to clip if you try to go out even remotely hot. > > I rarely use the machine to do lay-back for the "analog vibe". It's a > mystery as to why some projects absolutely love going on to tape, > while others, it's clearly not the thing to do! Since I have acquired > Prism converters, I find that the analog lay-back is still a valuable > tool on occasion. It just sounds even better now, when it works. > > Highest regards, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 872-9478 Boston > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > >  > > On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Good points, of course, Steve! I've been to Steve's place and I can > > confirm, he is VERY PICKY . > > > > The APR's sound is different with the wideface vs. the Woelke heads, > > but not by too much as far as I can tell. All timecode machines have > > Woelke heads. Also, how the APR (or the ATR-100 is aligned) makes a > > difference. I'm talking about electrical alignment in addition to > > mechanical alignment. > > > > Steve, WHY do you think the APR sounds "softer" than the ATR? Gap > > length of the repro heads? Gap EQ settings? Try the Try Control > > ReproHighFreq and play with that setting a bit--it impacts Hi and Lo > > end, both. I set that on the 16kHz tone. As to the settings 0 and 8 > > are the same HF as are 7 and F. The low range changes between the 0-7 > > or 8-F range--very subtle but powerful in shaping the APR's response. > > > > And, since I don't think your A80RC sounds like my A80RCs--and I > > don't know why--we're at a loss there . > > > > I'm not sure even Steve and I fully understand what makes the "sound" > > -- it's such a combination of things. > > > > Also, I'm not sure how many mastering engineers are doing pristine > > analog playback. In fact, I'm starting to sign up a few mastering > > houses 'cause they think I do better-sounding transfers than they can > > do in-house. I'm so happy with that! > > > > Good luck! > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 12:30 AM 2009-02-01, you wrote: > > >Hi Gus -- > > > > > >gus79seyffert wrote: > > > > > > > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > > > > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > > > > better digital converters?? > > > > > >I'm feeling reckless, so I'm going to answer you. ;-) > > > > > >While I haven't done direct listening comparisons between the > > APR5000 and > > >ATR100, I have familiarized myself with both of them enough to > > feel safe in > > >telling you the following: > > > > > >An APR5000 should be able to *make* an excellent recording. What > > you send it > > >will all make it onto tape. This is true of pretty much any tape > > machine > > >that's in its league. > > > > > >Playback, however, is a different story. For technical reasons, > > it's way > > >easier for any analog tape recorder to put the signal on the tape > > than to > > >get everything back off without losing something. So, I find that > > all pro > > >analog tape machines distinguish themselves far more in playback > > than in > > >record capability. > > > > > >If you really liked the sound of the ATR102, you might find the > > sound of the > > >Sony a bit soft. It's subjective, of course. Others might prefer > > the softer > > >sound of the APR. In the big picture, I think you have to be > > pretty fussy to > > >care about this. I'm *very* fussy, so please take what I say with > > a grain of > > >salt. > > > > > >OK, so you have your mixes recorded on tape by your Sony APR. And, > > we can > > >now expect that what you sent to the machine is on the tape, even if > > >playback sounds a tad softer. Now, what is important is to know > > what your > > >*mastering engineer* will play your tapes on. > > > > > >If the mastering engineer plays your tapes into his system from an > > ATR102, > > >your Sony-recorded masters will probably sound a lot like ATR- > > recorded > > >masters **on the mastering engineer's ATR102**. The $400 - $1000 > > Sony APR > > >purchase (do what Richard says and buy them all) then becomes a very > > >inexpensive way to get your mixes *onto* the tape. It's the mastering > > >engineer's machine that will much more determine your ultimate > > outcome. > > > > > >OTOH, it does you no good to mix on an ATR if the mastering > > engineer is > > >going to play the tapes back on a machine that doesn't spin your fan, > > >because that's much more the character of sound that's going to be > > on your > > >CD. > > > > > >Does this make sense? > > > > > >Best, > > > > > >-- Steve > > > > > >================================================= > > > > > >Steve Puntolillo > > >Sonicraft A2DX Lab > > >Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > > >http://www.sonicraft.com > > > > > >================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ > > contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1645 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 8:16 am Subject: Re: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:48 AM 2009-02-01, gus79seyffert wrote: > i mostly record very laid back rock, Jazz, and >vintage sounding Electro/surf/pop. and is there anything i should >request of the tech to do before i take it home? Set both the working machines up for your choice of tape (from the batch you have--bring a reel) and make sure that he first sets playback (except low freq) from a good MRL tape. >Last question. and i realize this is getting a bit off topic. im >pretty sold in the apr,but in your opinion is the 280 scully on the >level with the apr and the atr? as i said before i have a 1/2 inch 4 >track 280 that i think sounds pretty great. OK--you keep bouncing around--here is Richard's hierarchy of tape machines--feel free to adjust based on your prejudices. Totally top drawer machines in the world that still demand boutique prices: Ampex ATR-100 Nagra T-Audio Studer A820 2CH Rarer machines: Stellavox late-model studio units Telefunken Studer A816 (this and many of the Telefunkens were built for German Radio and use B-wind, oxide-out tape) Really good machines: Studer A80 (with the RC suggested by some to be better than the VU, others disagree) Sony APR-5000 Possibly really good machines: Studer A812 Otari MTR-15, MTR-20 (I worry about these) Older tube really good machines Ampex MR-70 Studer C37 (almost boutique at times) Really good-sounding radio machines Studer A810 Possibly good-sounding later radio machines Studer B67 Ampex ATR-800 Workhorse radio machines (from the 1960s) Ampex AG440, AG350, Scully 280 Older tube workhorse radio machines Ampex 354, 351, 350, 300, 200A Second-tier radio machines Otari MTR-10/MTR-12 Studer A807 Studer PR99 Scully 280B ReVox B77 ReVox A77 (in its day) Third-tier radio machines ITC machines Otari 5050/55 machines Ampex ATR-700 >this may be a stupid >question but can i put a 1/4" reel on it and record to the lower 2 >tracks? would an atr read that?(ill ask the scully forum if no one knows) Don't do that -- you'll have guidance issues AND you'll damage your 4-track heads with uneven wear AND the track configuration is slightly different. > i also found a guy who will trade me a 1/2" 2 track 280 scully for my >four track. how does the tape width weigh out against a machine? in >other words if the apr is more of an industry standard than the scully >(i dont know that it is)... is using 1/2" tape out weigh the more >modern "industry standard" machine? That might be a solution, but I think the tape handling and electronics in the APR will run rings around the 280. And are these 280's or 280B's? See my opinion, above, of the 280B. These machines (even the 280B) are a decade older than the APRs. >i realize the tape width thing is hole other can of worms. some people >prefer the sound of 1/4"? is this because of compression? 1/2-inch can introduce more azimuth issues if the transport is not well-aligned (I had that problem when I put 1/2-inch 4-track on an Ampex 350 transport with AG-440B electronics). 1/2-inch 15 in/s IEC is a really quiet medium. 1/2-inch is quieter than 1/4-inch, and less sensitive to asperity noise especially as well as less prone to dropouts. I think it's about $100 per half hour for the tape these days. Maybe a bit less. >i know some of these questions are baby talk to some of you, so thank >you all for your help in finding me a sweet format to print to! Oh, and please trim posts. Please don't carry the whole thread through on every message. Good luck. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1646 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 2:19 pm Subject: Re: Re: APR 5000 eddieaudio Offline Send Email On ANY machine you will be relying more on the tape for character than the electronics, BUT, for a more pure, old-skule signal path, the older machines - A80, ampex 440 - will have more character. No matter how you slice it, ALL machines will require maintenance and you might consider / factor in the proximity to a geek who might be familiar with ANY of the machines. I have a sony and use it for transfers. Studers are generally very reliable. MCI machines are not. The more complex the machine, the more challenging to fix when they do break. In some ways, if you want "the easiest path," Simultaneously sending mixes to and capturing from an otari 5050 might be a way to get started. At least that machine is easily shipped and is fairly straightforward - a good machine to learn the basics on. Not the sexy answer you wanted to hear, but practical. When you way ALL of the options, I don't think there is ONE machine that fits the bill. > OK.OK. ill put my stuff to digital as well... but, i love the sound of > tape. it may be in my head. I'm kind of new to producing records. the > first record i recorded and mixed on a tascam 388 and printed to > digital.not the best result.the next 2 records i recorded to the 388, > dumped it to pro tools,had it mixed and printed to an ATR.great > results! of course the mixing engineer and pro gear makes a big > difference. the last record was recorded to my tascam ms 16 1" , > dumped and mixed in digital, printed to digital. And though it sounds > good, I regret not printing to tape. > > I now have a setup at my home where I could feasibly start mixing on a > semi pro level. I guess I thought that I'll be able to afford a better > 2 track tape machine than super bad-ass digital converters. and stay > all analog all the way. But you guys aren't really convincing me that > the Sony is the right machine. > > So let me get this straight. The consensus is that the Sony isnt > necessarily the best machine and that I should look into an A80 or > better digital converters?? > > thanks again for all your input and knowledge, > > Gus > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > "gus79seyffert" > wrote: > > > > I found a Sony APR 5000 for sale for $400. Is this a good deal? How > does the sound quality > > compare to other 1/4' 2 track machines? > > thanks > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1647 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 4:14 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: I know you know this but the Nagra TA, while certainly expensive, probably doesn't quite belong in the same "class" as the ATR-102 and Studer A820 -- since it was designed for and typically used for different purposes. From what I can tell the TA was typically used as a post-house playback machine for TC tapes recorded on Nagra IV STC portables. The STCs, in turn, were typically used for on-set dialogue recording for film or TV shoots. The TA was a derivative of the curious Nagra TI "portable" instrumentation deck -- brought to market because the IV SJ had successfully kicked B&K etal's butt for years -- which never took off, largely because the instrumentation world was shifting to DAT and on the way to PC-based digital recording. Today, you can pick up the competing B&K 7005/6/7 (4CH -- 1/4") which originally sold for $30,000 for $100 on eBay. So, as a matter of commercial interest, Nagra was (arguably) never in the studio mastering business -- unlike Ampex and Studer and . . . Sony (MCI). The Stellavox TD-9 is also a curious machine. While there may be some in Switzerland who used it for mastering, most of those that I've come across are set up for 16mm mag-sound film. Once again, Stellavox was chasing the movie sound business, like Nagra, as reflected in the final Stellavox "product", the StellaDAT (really a perpetual prototype designed by contract engineers.) Btw, I have an Otari MTR-20, with spare electronics and three head stacks. Obviously what sets this machine apart from the aforementioned is that it's a 4-channel deck that pulls 1/2" tape. It also had a very limited production run (200+?), so usually doesn't show up on most lists since few people ever used one. And then there are the Stevens machines . . . Mark Stahlman New York City **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://\ www.dell.com/co ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d hs%26~ck=anavml) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1648 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 11:16 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Mark, Thank you for the valuable insight. Something must be keeping the value of the Nagra TA up. I should have been more clear. The Group 1 machines I listed (A820 2CH, ATR-100, and TA) are those that continue to retain value, for whatever reasons. If I thought I was truly missing something in my tape work -- something that resulted in a significant audible improvement on a regular basis (i.e. not solving one problem for one client) I would most likely have one or more of these machines. Everything I've been able to find out from people who have used and investigated these three machines (and aren't involved in marketing them or themselves by using the machines) indicate that the mix I have is representative of the best available sound one can recover from tapes. In fact, the one A80 RC at Sony Studios was always in demand for a mix deck, even though their standard machine was the A820 2CH. Go figure. I still don't know how to classify the A810/A812/A820 as they all share the same electronics cards. I heard recently from someone I respect that the A812 is closer to the A820 than to the A810 due to transport design (servos, in particular), so could some of the A810 sonic failings be attributed to the capstan servo? Interesting thought. One could go crazy (and broke) chasing down that last 0.1 dB that still rides on how you tweak both azimuth (in the absence of accurate tones which happens on all too many tapes) and the EQ trim adjustments. Anyway, Eddie posted an interesting alternative for Gus, even though I don't particularily like the 5050, it is a much easier machine for a non-technical person to ship to a repair place, but as I've said before, I think anyone getting into this needs to hone their technical chops as well as their musical chops. Cheers, Richard At 09:14 AM 2009-02-02, newmedia@... wrote: >Richard: > >I know you know this but the Nagra TA, while certainly expensive, probably >doesn't quite belong in the same "class" as the ATR-102 and Studer A820 -- >since it was designed for and typically used for different purposes. > > From what I can tell the TA was typically used as a post-house playback >machine for TC tapes recorded on Nagra IV STC portables. The STCs, >in turn, were >typically used for on-set dialogue recording for film or TV shoots. > >The TA was a derivative of the curious Nagra TI "portable" instrumentation >deck -- brought to market because the IV SJ had successfully kicked >B&K etal's >butt for years -- which never took off, largely because the instrumentation >world was shifting to DAT and on the way to PC-based digital recording. > >Today, you can pick up the competing B&K 7005/6/7 (4CH -- 1/4") which >originally sold for $30,000 for $100 on eBay. > >So, as a matter of commercial interest, Nagra was (arguably) never in the >studio mastering business -- unlike Ampex and Studer and . . . Sony (MCI). > >The Stellavox TD-9 is also a curious machine. While there may be some in >Switzerland who used it for mastering, most of those that I've come >across are >set up for 16mm mag-sound film. Once again, Stellavox was chasing the movie >sound business, like Nagra, as reflected in the final Stellavox "product", >the StellaDAT (really a perpetual prototype designed by contract engineers.) > >Btw, I have an Otari MTR-20, with spare electronics and three head stacks. >Obviously what sets this machine apart from the aforementioned >is that it's a >4-channel deck that pulls 1/2" tape. It also had a very limited production >run (200+?), so usually doesn't show up on most lists since few people ever >used one. > >And then there are the Stevens machines . . . > >Mark Stahlman >New York City Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1649 From: newmedia@... Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 7:17 am Subject: Re: APR 5000 radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Hey, it's a NAGRA, so it must be GOOD!! Speaking about the battery-powered portables which established these company's reputations, most that I've met who have seriously compared these things prefer the Stellavox products for their "musicality." I have owned and used them both and I suspect that there are indeed "sonic" differences based on circuit layout and design approaches. The Stellavox design is based around modular plug-ins. In the beginning these were potted and, in the end, they were updated by Kostas Metaxas with fresh components. In addition, the heads are inter-changeable and the EQ is in the head-block. Nagra's whole mic-pre approach along with the construction of the "mother-board" and signal-path to/from the heads w/ EQ circuits could be more intended for toughness and repairability than for "music." The fact that Stellavox also made a special "mastering" version (SM7/SM8), probably also reflects differences in the Stellavox clientele vs. Nagra. Obviously, getting master-quality recordings from a small, light portable is/was a challenge. Mark Stahlman New York City **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://\ www.dell.com/co ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d hs%26~ck=anavml) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1650 From: "Bob Olhsson" Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 12:56 pm Subject: RE: APR 5000 robertolhsson Offline Send Email > -----Original Message----- > From Richard L. Hess: Something must be keeping the > value of the Nagra TA up. As far as I can tell what the most expensive used analog recorders have in common is the ability to work well with time code. There is still a fair amount of professional demand for this. Premium priced used machines remain cheaper than refurbishing one that has been worn-out. Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1651 From: "Steve Puntolillo" Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 3:14 pm Subject: RE: APR 5000 sonicraft_a2dx Offline Send Email Hi -- Bob Olhsson wrote: > Premium priced used machines > remain > cheaper than refurbishing one that has been worn-out. AMEN!! Not just in dollars but in TIME as well. (Time IS worth something, isn't it?) If I could have held out for pristine machines, even at top dollar, it would have saved me a LOT of time and money. However, the advantage of restoring all of the machines here was what I learned about them during the process. It's been a great education but *expensive*, time consuming (besides the labor, try finding parts) and has taken a lot out of me. You might find it amusing that (with help of course) I'm coming down the home stretch of restoring two ATR102s **and selling the perfectly good ATR Services 102 that was in operation here**. Why? Mike Spitz rebuilt that machine. So, he has all the knowledge and I had only the machine. It seems that the only way for me to half-way understand any of these machines is to start with a pile of parts and put a machine together from them. So, while I won't say I fully understand ATRs now, I'm a LOT closer. And, I feel much more competent to keep these two "new" ATRs running. So it goes with the rest of the machines here as well. Best, -- Steve ================================================= Steve Puntolillo Sonicraft A2DX Lab Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers http://www.sonicraft.com ================================================= Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1652 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 5:22 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi everyone, it's Craig. I have an Otari MX-5050 MKIII-4 that is in superb condition with very little use. It has been in climate controlled storage since January of 2000. I plan to replace the pinch roller and possibly the impedance roller. The Otari rollers seem to become " sticky " with age. This machine will be up for sale once I make sure that it performs within factory specs. There is one on Ebay right now ( 200304778132 ). I have also informed the two Otari groups on Yahoo. Also, if someone is interested in a Tascam 25-2, I have one that needs TLC and a new home. ( I am thinning the herd...so to speak ). Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from "Richard L. Hess" : -------------- Hello, Mark, Thank you for the valuable insight. Something must be keeping the value of the Nagra TA up. I should have been more clear. The Group 1 machines I listed (A820 2CH, ATR-100, and TA) are those that continue to retain value, for whatever reasons. If I thought I was truly missing something in my tape work -- something that resulted in a significant audible improvement on a regular basis (i.e. not solving one problem for one client) I would most likely have one or more of these machines. Everything I've been able to find out from people who have used and investigated these three machines (and aren't involved in marketing them or themselves by using the machines) indicate that the mix I have is representative of the best available sound one can recover from tapes. In fact, the one A80 RC at Sony Studios was always in demand for a mix deck, even though their standard machine was the A820 2CH. Go figure. I still don't know how to classify the A810/A812/A820 as they all share the same electronics cards. I heard recently from someone I respect that the A812 is closer to the A820 than to the A810 due to transport design (servos, in particular), so could some of the A810 sonic failings be attributed to the capstan servo? Interesting thought. One could go crazy (and broke) chasing down that last 0.1 dB that still rides on how you tweak both azimuth (in the absence of accurate tones which happens on all too many tapes) and the EQ trim adjustments. Anyway, Eddie posted an interesting alternative for Gus, even though I don't particularily like the 5050, it is a much easier machine for a non-technical person to ship to a repair place, but as I've said before, I think anyone getting into this needs to hone their technical chops as well as their musical chops. Cheers, Richard At 09:14 AM 2009-02-02, newmedia@... wrote: >Richard: > >I know you know this but the Nagra TA, while certainly expensive, probably >doesn't quite belong in the same "class" as the ATR-102 and Studer A820 -- >since it was designed for and typically used for different purposes. > > From what I can tell the TA was typically used as a post-house playback >machine for TC tapes recorded on Nagra IV STC portables. The STCs, >in turn, were >typically used for on-set dialogue recording for film or TV shoots. > >The TA was a derivative of the curious Nagra TI "portable" instrumentation >deck -- brought to market because the IV SJ had successfully kicked >B&K etal's >butt for years -- which never took off, largely because the instrumentation >world was shifting to DAT and on the way to PC-based digital recording. > >Today, you can pick up the competing B&K 7005/6/7 (4CH -- 1/4") which >originally sold for $30,000 for $100 on eBay. > >So, as a matter of commercial interest, Nagra was (arguably) never in the >studio mastering business -- unlike Ampex and Studer and . . . Sony (MCI). > >The Stellavox TD-9 is also a curious machine. While there may be some in >Switzerland who used it for mastering, most of those that I've come >across are >set up for 16mm mag-sound film. Once again, Stellavox was chasing the movie >sound business, like Nagra, as reflected in the final Stellavox "product", >the StellaDAT (really a perpetual prototype designed by contract engineers.) > >Btw, I have an Otari MTR-20, with spare electronics and three head stacks. >Obviously what sets this machine apart from the aforementioned >is that it's a >4-channel deck that pulls 1/2" tape. It also had a very limited production >run (200+?), so usually doesn't show up on most lists since few people ever >used one. > >And then there are the Stevens machines . . . > >Mark Stahlman >New York City Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1653 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:19 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 radsimple Offline Send Email Bob: > As far as I can tell what the most expensive used analog recorders > have in common is the ability to work well with time code. Makes sense. One of the few places were people are still recording on tape is the use of Nagra IV STC decks that run as backups for hard-drive recorders on movie-set sound carts. You need a time-code capable studio deck to process those tapes. That was the intended use for the Nagra TA. So people actually use these in places were money changes hands. Therefore, nice used decks sell for $2500+. Mark Stahlman New York City **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://\ ad.doubleclick. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1654 From: "Bob Olhsson" Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 6:21 pm Subject: RE: APR 5000 robertolhsson Offline Send Email > -----Original Message----- > From Mark Stahlman: "... Makes sense. One of the few places were people are still recording on > tape is the use of Nagra IV STC decks that run as backups for hard-drive > recorders on movie-set sound carts It's probably not as much a matter of new recordings as it is of a large body of existing dialogue recordings that people still need to be able to transfer in sync. Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com http://womb.mixerman.net Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1655 From: "Gael" Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 6:57 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email -- yes , totaly right it s so good when you know the machine from the inside and be abble to keep the machine running properly - In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Puntolillo" wrote: > > Hi -- > > Bob Olhsson wrote: > > > Premium priced used machines > > remain > > cheaper than refurbishing one that has been worn-out. > > AMEN!! Not just in dollars but in TIME as well. (Time IS worth something, > isn't it?) > > If I could have held out for pristine machines, even at top dollar, it would > have saved me a LOT of time and money. > > However, the advantage of restoring all of the machines here was what I > learned about them during the process. It's been a great education but > *expensive*, time consuming (besides the labor, try finding parts) and has > taken a lot out of me. > > You might find it amusing that (with help of course) I'm coming down the > home stretch of restoring two ATR102s **and selling the perfectly good ATR > Services 102 that was in operation here**. Why? Mike Spitz rebuilt that > machine. So, he has all the knowledge and I had only the machine. > > It seems that the only way for me to half-way understand any of these > machines is to start with a pile of parts and put a machine together from > them. So, while I won't say I fully understand ATRs now, I'm a LOT closer. > And, I feel much more competent to keep these two "new" ATRs running. So it > goes with the rest of the machines here as well. > > Best, > > -- Steve > > ================================================= > > Steve Puntolillo > Sonicraft A2DX Lab > Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > http://www.sonicraft.com > > ================================================= > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1656 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Feb 9, 2009 11:33 pm Subject: Re: APR 5000 ladewd Offline Send Email This is precisely why I bought an APR. I can strip it down to nothing and put it all back together and make it work. I also have quite a few extra parts and assemblies to keep it working at least as long as I'm still working. I could do the same thing with a JH, but they're just not as dependable in my book. I never had the pleasure of working on an ATR, but quite frankly, I don't see the advantage in using tape like I used to. Computers are just so much more convenient to work and track with. No tape hiss, no decomposing tape, and best of all no maintenance. I don't necessarily mix in the box, but as a multitrack, computers are great. I record my own and my son's music as a hobby, and know where to go if I really want to get serious. At 56 years old, my music career is over, so my trusty Mac, Logic and Protools work fine for me, and I don't have the hassle of buying tape. Don't get me wrong, still love to work on tape machines, but their usefulness to me has diminished over the past few years. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Gael" wrote: > > -- > yes , totaly right it s so good when you know the machine from the > inside and be abble to keep the machine running properly > > > > - In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Puntolillo" wrote: > > > > Hi -- > > > > Bob Olhsson wrote: > > > > > Premium priced used machines > > > remain > > > cheaper than refurbishing one that has been worn-out. > > > > AMEN!! Not just in dollars but in TIME as well. (Time IS worth > something, > > isn't it?) > > > > If I could have held out for pristine machines, even at top dollar, > it would > > have saved me a LOT of time and money. > > > > However, the advantage of restoring all of the machines here was what I > > learned about them during the process. It's been a great education but > > *expensive*, time consuming (besides the labor, try finding parts) > and has > > taken a lot out of me. > > > > You might find it amusing that (with help of course) I'm coming down the > > home stretch of restoring two ATR102s **and selling the perfectly > good ATR > > Services 102 that was in operation here**. Why? Mike Spitz rebuilt that > > machine. So, he has all the knowledge and I had only the machine. > > > > It seems that the only way for me to half-way understand any of these > > machines is to start with a pile of parts and put a machine together > from > > them. So, while I won't say I fully understand ATRs now, I'm a LOT > closer. > > And, I feel much more competent to keep these two "new" ATRs > running. So it > > goes with the rest of the machines here as well. > > > > Best, > > > > -- Steve > > > > ================================================= > > > > Steve Puntolillo > > Sonicraft A2DX Lab > > Ultimate A_nalog 2 D_igital X_fers > > http://www.sonicraft.com > > > > ================================================= > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1657 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Sun Mar 1, 2009 10:47 pm Subject: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either increasing or decreasing the bias level. The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1658 From: "Richard Merrick" Date: Tue Mar 3, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: APR-5003 for sale - UK richardmerrick Offline Send Email Ladies & gentlemen, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 machine. It is in reasonable condition and working. It is fitted with the 1/4 inch half-track headblock. I have the trolley/stand major components but the buyer will need to acquire the hardware to assemble it. Because of the weight and the packaging issues, at this stage I am only offering the machine to UK buyers, preferably in the South of England. I will deliver, with a moderate contribution to fuel etc, within 150 miles or so of Central London. Offers in the region of £200. Purely space restrictions and a shift in my business towards a wholly digital environment force a reluctant sale. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER TEL: +44 (0) 20 8643 0654 MOBILE: 07850 690045 This email, and any attachment, is intended for the recipient only, and must be regarded as confidential. If you have received this in error, please delete all copies from your system, and inform the sender. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1659 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Tue Mar 3, 2009 1:47 pm Subject: RE: APR-5003 for sale - UK vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, I am interested, From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Merrick Sent: 03 March 2009 17:03 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Ladies & gentlemen, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 machine. It is in reasonable condition and working. It is fitted with the 1/4 inch half-track headblock. I have the trolley/stand major components but the buyer will need to acquire the hardware to assemble it. Because of the weight and the packaging issues, at this stage I am only offering the machine to UK buyers, preferably in the South of England. I will deliver, with a moderate contribution to fuel etc, within 150 miles or so of Central London. Offers in the region of £200. Purely space restrictions and a shift in my business towards a wholly digital environment force a reluctant sale. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER TEL: +44 (0) 20 8643 0654 MOBILE: 07850 690045 This email, and any attachment, is intended for the recipient only, and must be regarded as confidential. If you have received this in error, please delete all copies from your system, and inform the sender. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1660 From: "ladewd" Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:07 am Subject: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ladewd Offline Send Email Ozzie, There is a master bias level pot on the MST cards. At the factory, we adjusted bias and erase for certain peak to peak levels. Originally the master bias and erase voltages were set to 15V. We found out later, mainly after the APR24 was released, that settings this high caused punch in transients. No one complained early on with the 5000's because they weren't punching in as much as the multi-tracks. What we wound up doing was recommending that erase be set just to the point where the depth of erase spec was met. Bias was reduced to 12V p-p. If you're not getting enough overbias for the newer tapes, you can set the master bias voltage on the MST to be a bit higher. I'd try 14v p-p then 15v, but going any higher will cause the bias to clip and all kinds of squealing will come out of the machine. Give it a try and see if you can get the overbias you need. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape > stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. > > I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying > to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either > increasing or decreasing the bias level. > > The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, > which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that > small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. > > If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Ozzie > Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1661 From: Digital Voice Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:43 pm Subject: FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock DigitalVoice Offline Send Email Hello everyone, I am selling a half-inch headblock for the Sony APR 5003V It is in like new condition. Actually I am also selling all my audio gear, 400 tape decks, >500 LP's, >2000 tapes, >2000 CD's, >2500 cassettes, accessories If you care to have a look, I made a web site here: http://www.abumbe.org I did not have the time to load complete lists for everything or pictures. If you have questions, need more details, pictures, etc. please email me at decks@... (my yahoo email is flooded with junk/spam) All the best to you all, Victor ________________________________ From: ladewd To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:07:44 AM Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V Ozzie, There is a master bias level pot on the MST cards. At the factory, we adjusted bias and erase for certain peak to peak levels. Originally the master bias and erase voltages were set to 15V. We found out later, mainly after the APR24 was released, that settings this high caused punch in transients. No one complained early on with the 5000's because they weren't punching in as much as the multi-tracks. What we wound up doing was recommending that erase be set just to the point where the depth of erase spec was met. Bias was reduced to 12V p-p. If you're not getting enough overbias for the newer tapes, you can set the master bias voltage on the MST to be a bit higher. I'd try 14v p-p then 15v, but going any higher will cause the bias to clip and all kinds of squealing will come out of the machine. Give it a try and see if you can get the overbias you need. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape > stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. > > I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying > to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either > increasing or decreasing the bias level. > > The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, > which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that > small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. > > If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Ozzie > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1662 From: twjolly@... Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:33 pm Subject: Re: FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock twjjolly Offline Send Email Hello, How much are you asking for your 1/2 Headblock for the Sony APR5003V? Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 3/20/2009 12:21:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, digitalvoice@... writes: Hello everyone, I am selling a half-inch headblock for the Sony APR 5003V It is in like new condition. **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1663 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:22 pm Subject: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > Ozzie, > > There is a master bias level pot on the MST cards. At the factory, we adjusted bias and erase for certain peak to peak levels. Originally the master bias and erase voltages were set to 15V. We found out later, mainly after the APR24 was released, that settings this high caused punch in transients. No one complained early on with the 5000's because they weren't punching in as much as the multi-tracks. > > What we wound up doing was recommending that erase be set just to the point where the depth of erase spec was met. Bias was reduced to 12V p-p. If you're not getting enough overbias for the newer tapes, you can set the master bias voltage on the MST to be a bit higher. I'd try 14v p-p then 15v, but going any higher will cause the bias to clip and all kinds of squealing will come out of the machine. Give it a try and see if you can get the overbias you need. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape > > stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. > > > > I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying > > to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either > > increasing or decreasing the bias level. > > > > The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, > > which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that > > small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. > > > > If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ozzie > > > Thanks Cary, I'm getting to know these machines pretty well. Actually, while I was waiting for a reply, I dug out the manual and found that the bias pot was on the MST card and I increased the voltage near to where you suggested by chance and all went well. As always thou, I appreciate you help. Thanks Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1664 From: gael guilarte Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:56 pm Subject: Re: FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email hello ted how much 4 your 1/2 inch head block ?plus all the 1/2 inch transport transformation? --- On Fri, 3/20/09, twjolly@... wrote: From: twjolly@... Subject: Re: [sony_apr] FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 4:33 PM Hello, How much are you asking for your 1/2 Headblock for the Sony APR5003V? Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 3/20/2009 12:21:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, digitalvoice@ yahoo.com writes: Hello everyone, I am selling a half-inch headblock for the Sony APR 5003V It is in like new condition. ************ **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food. aol.com/frugal- feasts?ncid= emlcntusfood0000 0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1665 From: c.tayerle@... Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:18 pm Subject: Re: FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. On a non-related topic, how do I change my email address for this group? Many Thanks, Craig T. -------------- Original message from gael guilarte : -------------- hello ted how much 4 your 1/2 inch head block ?plus all the 1/2 inch transport transformation? --- On Fri, 3/20/09, twjolly@... wrote: From: twjolly@... Subject: Re: [sony_apr] FS: Sony APR 5003V half-inch headblock To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 4:33 PM Hello, How much are you asking for your 1/2 Headblock for the Sony APR5003V? Regards, Ted Jolly In a message dated 3/20/2009 12:21:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, digitalvoice@ yahoo.com writes: Hello everyone, I am selling a half-inch headblock for the Sony APR 5003V It is in like new condition. ************ **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food. aol.com/frugal- feasts?ncid= emlcntusfood0000 0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1666 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:31 pm Subject: Re: Changing email address richardlhess Offline Send Email At 08:18 PM 2009-03-20, you wrote: >Hi, this is Craig. On a non-related topic, how do I change my email >address for this group? > >Many Thanks, > >Craig T. The easiest way to do this is to log on to the web interface at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sony_apr/ If you do not have a Yahoo account, then it might be more difficult. I think generally you unsubscribe from the old address and resubscribe from the new one. But you can have several email addresses attached to your Yahoo account and then assign each group to one of those. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1667 From: "ladewd" Date: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:24 pm Subject: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ladewd Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > Ozzie, > > > > There is a master bias level pot on the MST cards. At the factory, we adjusted bias and erase for certain peak to peak levels. Originally the master bias and erase voltages were set to 15V. We found out later, mainly after the APR24 was released, that settings this high caused punch in transients. No one complained early on with the 5000's because they weren't punching in as much as the multi-tracks. > > > > What we wound up doing was recommending that erase be set just to the point where the depth of erase spec was met. Bias was reduced to 12V p-p. If you're not getting enough overbias for the newer tapes, you can set the master bias voltage on the MST to be a bit higher. I'd try 14v p-p then 15v, but going any higher will cause the bias to clip and all kinds of squealing will come out of the machine. Give it a try and see if you can get the overbias you need. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape > > > stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. > > > > > > I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying > > > to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either > > > increasing or decreasing the bias level. > > > > > > The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, > > > which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that > > > small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. > > > > > > If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ozzie > > > > > > > Thanks Cary, > > I'm getting to know these machines pretty well. Actually, while I was waiting for a reply, I dug out the manual and found that the bias pot was on the MST card and I increased the voltage near to where you suggested by chance and all went well. As always thou, I appreciate you help. > > Thanks > > Ozzie > Ozzie, Just be sure the bias isn't clipping out of the CNL cards. You'll need a scope to determine this If the bias clips, the large transistors on the front of the CNL card will fail. You can see the bias and erase signals on the coax cable that runs the length of the CNL card. It will obviously only turn on when you're in record. Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1668 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:10 am Subject: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > > > > > Ozzie, > > > > > > There is a master bias level pot on the MST cards. At the factory, we adjusted bias and erase for certain peak to peak levels. Originally the master bias and erase voltages were set to 15V. We found out later, mainly after the APR24 was released, that settings this high caused punch in transients. No one complained early on with the 5000's because they weren't punching in as much as the multi-tracks. > > > > > > What we wound up doing was recommending that erase be set just to the point where the depth of erase spec was met. Bias was reduced to 12V p-p. If you're not getting enough overbias for the newer tapes, you can set the master bias voltage on the MST to be a bit higher. I'd try 14v p-p then 15v, but going any higher will cause the bias to clip and all kinds of squealing will come out of the machine. Give it a try and see if you can get the overbias you need. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie_b_music" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > I have an alignment problem setting the bias level for new tape > > > > stock(SM900) on a APR 5003V with 1/2" headstock. > > > > > > > > I normally run 456 and decided to try some SM900 stock, while trying > > > > to set the bias level there is no response from the VU meters either > > > > increasing or decreasing the bias level. > > > > > > > > The last successful alignment was performed prior to an eprom upgrade, > > > > which shouldn't have caused any problems, but I wanted to add that > > > > small detail. Now, neither 456 or SM900 will let me set the bias level. > > > > > > > > If anyone has any ideas, your help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Ozzie > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Cary, > > > > I'm getting to know these machines pretty well. Actually, while I was waiting for a reply, I dug out the manual and found that the bias pot was on the MST card and I increased the voltage near to where you suggested by chance and all went well. As always thou, I appreciate you help. > > > > Thanks > > > > Ozzie > > > > Ozzie, > > Just be sure the bias isn't clipping out of the CNL cards. You'll need a scope to determine this If the bias clips, the large transistors on the front of the CNL card will fail. You can see the bias and erase signals on the coax cable that runs the length of the CNL card. It will obviously only turn on when you're in record. > > Cary > Cary, Are there any other potential gotchas? LOL! I'll have to check that when get my 465m back from a friend. I also noticed that I was missing the engineering drawing for the CNL card. Does anyone have a pdf copy of the CNL card drawing and part list? Thanks Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1669 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:15 am Subject: Re: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V richardlhess Offline Send Email At 04:10 AM 2009-03-22, ozzie_b_music wrote: >Cary, > >Are there any other potential gotchas? LOL! I'll have to check that >when get my 465m back from a friend. I also noticed that I was >missing the engineering drawing for the CNL card. Does anyone have a >pdf copy of the CNL card drawing and part list? > I think there should be one in part 2 http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ Good Luck! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1670 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:42 pm Subject: OT: Dolby SP rack engjch13 Offline Send Email I know it's off-topic here, but maybe somebody can help. I need some schematics for a Dolby SP rack unit (24-channels of Cat 22 Dolby A cards held in Cat 230 cards). I have documents for the Cat 22 cards (and they appear to work fine in my 361 modules), but 4 or 5 of the 230 cards won't pass audio, and when a known good card is inserted into a slot where a known bad card was residing, the good card fails, and won't pass audio back in it's original slot, which then is "poisoned" and will destroy a good module inserted there! Don't ask me how I found THAT out :-( I'm puzzled, since the frame doesn't appear to be much more than a power supply feeding power and master control logic signals to busses across the backplane. It doesn't look like there's anything in the frame that can fail on an individual slot Anyway, the owner of the rack said that Dolby had offered to repair the 230 cards (at a very hefty cost), but NOT the frame, and they won't provide the documentation for any of it. So, does anyone have, or know where to puchase, schematics for the SP rack, and/or the Cat 230 cards (really, the 230 cards are more critical to me)? Thanks! Jeff Chestek Reply | Messages in this Topic (32 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1671 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:31 am Subject: Re: Unable to Set Bias Level for New Tape - APR 5003V ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 04:10 AM 2009-03-22, ozzie_b_music wrote: > > >Cary, > > > >Are there any other potential gotchas? LOL! I'll have to check that > >when get my 465m back from a friend. I also noticed that I was > >missing the engineering drawing for the CNL card. Does anyone have a > >pdf copy of the CNL card drawing and part list? > > > > I think there should be one in part 2 > http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > > Good Luck! > > Cheers, > > Richard > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Hi Richard, Perfect! Thanks for the links. Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (11 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1672 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:38 am Subject: RE: APR-5003 for sale - UK vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello all, thanks to Richard Merrick, I am now the prod owner of a Sony APR-5003, the recorder is missing three items and was hoping someone could help, I am looking for one upper cap for the stand which closes off the mounting screws for the recorder, also I am looking for two mounting bolts to support the recorder in its stand, not the locking nuts but the swivel nuts. Can anyone help? Thanks everyone, a special thank you to Richard Merrick for this super machine, nice to meet you too. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Merrick Sent: 03 March 2009 17:03 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Ladies & gentlemen, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 machine. It is in reasonable condition and working. It is fitted with the 1/4 inch half-track headblock. I have the trolley/stand major components but the buyer will need to acquire the hardware to assemble it. Because of the weight and the packaging issues, at this stage I am only offering the machine to UK buyers, preferably in the South of England. I will deliver, with a moderate contribution to fuel etc, within 150 miles or so of Central London. Offers in the region of £200. Purely space restrictions and a shift in my business towards a wholly digital environment force a reluctant sale. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER TEL: +44 (0) 20 8643 0654 MOBILE: 07850 690045 This email, and any attachment, is intended for the recipient only, and must be regarded as confidential. If you have received this in error, please delete all copies from your system, and inform the sender. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1673 From: Peter Date: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:38 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 for sale - UK petersinnett Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, The man you want is Richard L Hess. He is based in Canada and has 20+ machines. I got timing roller parts from him. He is reliable. Peter. ________________________________ From: Stuart Blacklock To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 13:38:59 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Hello all, thanks to Richard Merrick, I am now the prod owner of a Sony APR-5003, the recorder is missing three items and was hoping someone could help, I am looking for one upper cap for the stand which closes off the mounting screws for the recorder, also I am looking for two mounting bolts to support the recorder in its stand, not the locking nuts but the swivel nuts. Can anyone help? Thanks everyone, a special thank you to Richard Merrick for this super machine, nice to meet you too. From: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Richard Merrick Sent: 03 March 2009 17:03 To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Ladies & gentlemen, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 machine. It is in reasonable condition and working. It is fitted with the 1/4 inch half-track headblock. I have the trolley/stand major components but the buyer will need to acquire the hardware to assemble it. Because of the weight and the packaging issues, at this stage I am only offering the machine to UK buyers, preferably in the South of England. I will deliver, with a moderate contribution to fuel etc, within 150 miles or so of Central London. Offers in the region of £200. Purely space restrictions and a shift in my business towards a wholly digital environment force a reluctant sale. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER TEL: +44 (0) 20 8643 0654 MOBILE: 07850 690045 This email, and any attachment, is intended for the recipient only, and must be regarded as confidential. If you have received this in error, please delete all copies from your system, and inform the sender. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1674 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:46 am Subject: RE: APR-5003 for sale - UK vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Cheers, I have emailed him as he has posted comments already regarding postal rates and such, thanks. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Sent: 27 March 2009 08:38 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Hi Stuart, The man you want is Richard L Hess. He is based in Canada and has 20+ machines. I got timing roller parts from him. He is reliable. Peter. ________________________________ From: Stuart Blacklock > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 26 March, 2009 13:38:59 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Hello all, thanks to Richard Merrick, I am now the prod owner of a Sony APR-5003, the recorder is missing three items and was hoping someone could help, I am looking for one upper cap for the stand which closes off the mounting screws for the recorder, also I am looking for two mounting bolts to support the recorder in its stand, not the locking nuts but the swivel nuts. Can anyone help? Thanks everyone, a special thank you to Richard Merrick for this super machine, nice to meet you too. From: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Richard Merrick Sent: 03 March 2009 17:03 To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Subject: [sony_apr] APR-5003 for sale - UK Ladies & gentlemen, I am selling my Sony APR-5003 machine. It is in reasonable condition and working. It is fitted with the 1/4 inch half-track headblock. I have the trolley/stand major components but the buyer will need to acquire the hardware to assemble it. Because of the weight and the packaging issues, at this stage I am only offering the machine to UK buyers, preferably in the South of England. I will deliver, with a moderate contribution to fuel etc, within 150 miles or so of Central London. Offers in the region of £200. Purely space restrictions and a shift in my business towards a wholly digital environment force a reluctant sale. Best regards, Richard Merrick LOCATION SOUND MIXER TEL: +44 (0) 20 8643 0654 MOBILE: 07850 690045 This email, and any attachment, is intended for the recipient only, and must be regarded as confidential. If you have received this in error, please delete all copies from your system, and inform the sender. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.6/1980 - Release Date: 03/02/09 23:02:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.30/2026 - Release Date: 03/27/09 07:13:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1675 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:15 pm Subject: I miss my PCM-3402 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping it running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors terms, I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more than one? Would love to get my hands on one again. Cheers all! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1676 From: "Karen/Kevin Peckham" Date: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:01 pm Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 record2tape Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I haven't used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison Wisconsin. Kevin Peckham kpeck30808@... On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < vintage_recorders@...> wrote: > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping it > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > terms, > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more than > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > Cheers all! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1677 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:45 pm Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Kevin, Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two ago. Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. Cheers, Richard At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: >Hi Stuart, > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I haven't >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison >Wisconsin. > >Kevin Peckham >kpeck30808@... > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < >vintage_recorders@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping it > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > terms, > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more than > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > Cheers all! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1678 From: "Karen/Kevin Peckham" Date: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:08 am Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 record2tape Offline Send Email Hi Richard, Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not a ton of them out there anymore. My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested in having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to the landfull. Kevin On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hi, Kevin, > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two ago. > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > >Hi Stuart, > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > haven't > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > >Wisconsin. > > > >Kevin Peckham > >kpeck30808@... > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > >vintage_recorders@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping > it > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > > terms, > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more > than > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1679 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:15 am Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 richardlhess Offline Send Email That's good news. May I ask which museum? Pavek isn't local, but it's close. At 12:08 AM 2009-04-12, you wrote: >Hi Richard, > >Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not >a ton of them out there anymore. >My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested in >having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to the >landfull. > >Kevin > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess >wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, Kevin, > > > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two ago. > > > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > > >Hi Stuart, > > > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > > haven't > > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the > > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > > >Wisconsin. > > > > > >Kevin Peckham > > >kpeck30808@... > > > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > > >vintage_recorders@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping > > it > > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > > > terms, > > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more > > than > > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1680 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:45 am Subject: RE: I miss my PCM-3402 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, if its not too much trouble, I can get FedEx in to collect on our works account and this makes the shipping more interesting, the recorders have a 110 - 240 switch so that's fine, would you be able to stick these on a palette? I know that Richard will tell me its not worth the time, money or trouble and he is right as they are not very reliable or particularly rare but I do miss my one a lot and regret selling. Very interested in the pair Please email me on stuart@... Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen/Kevin Peckham Sent: 12 April 2009 05:09 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] I miss my PCM-3402 Hi Richard, Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not a ton of them out there anymore. My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested in having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to the landfull. Kevin On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess >wrote: > > > Hi, Kevin, > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two ago. > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > >Hi Stuart, > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > haven't > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > >Wisconsin. > > > >Kevin Peckham > >kpeck30808@... > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > >vintage_recorders@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping > it > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > > terms, > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more > than > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1681 From: "Karen/Kevin Peckham" Date: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:59 am Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 record2tape Offline Send Email Hi Richard, The owner of Full Compass (a national pro audio dealer/catalog house) has just built a huge new building not far from my home. A glass enclosed area just off the lobby, and adjacent to the two recording studios, has been set aside as a history of recording museum. He intends to display the antique mics, Edison cylinder machines, wire recorders, tape machines, and other recording devices he has been collecting for many years, in operational displays. Given the number of console Studer, Scully, MCI and Ampex tape machines I have parked in my garage that no longer fit into my studio, I suspect I will end up parking a few items there to add to the collection. After collecting and restoring these things, I don't want to see them parted out or reduced to inoperative displays. Besides, I think they sound great and should be used for occassional recording projects. Kevin Peckham On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > That's good news. May I ask which museum? Pavek isn't local, but it's > close. > > > At 12:08 AM 2009-04-12, you wrote: > >Hi Richard, > > > >Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not > >a ton of them out there anymore. > >My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested > in > >having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to > the > >landfull. > > > >Kevin > > > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess > >>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Kevin, > > > > > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > > > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two > ago. > > > > > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > > > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > > > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > > > >Hi Stuart, > > > > > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > > > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > > > haven't > > > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > > > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to > the > > > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > > > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > > > >Wisconsin. > > > > > > > >Kevin Peckham > > > >kpeck30808@... > > > > > > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > > > >vintage_recorders@... 40yahoo.co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare > keeping > > > it > > > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a > collectors > > > > > terms, > > > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or > more > > > than > > > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... 40richardhess.com> > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1682 From: Dana White Date: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:35 am Subject: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi guys, I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any suggestions on what might be going on? Thanks. Dana Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1683 From: "hifi_supply" Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:38 am Subject: 30-pin Tuchel connectors hifi_supply Offline Send Email Hi all, Just recently acquired a Sony APR24 (16 track 2") and looking for 4 of these connectors. Can anyone recommend a source? Or does anyone have any knocking about? Thanks, Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1684 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:57 pm Subject: Re: 30-pin Tuchel connectors engjch13 Offline Send Email One source is Blevins Audio. http://www.blevinsaudio.com/tuchconnect.html There's somewhere else to get them too, but I don't remember where right now. Jeff Chestek hifi_supply wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Just recently acquired a Sony APR24 (16 track 2") and looking for 4 of > these connectors. Can anyone recommend a source? Or does anyone have > any knocking about? > > Thanks, > Tom > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1685 From: "Ki" Date: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:17 pm Subject: Re: 30-pin Tuchel connectors studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Tom: Try eBay... http://cgi.ebay.com/FOUR-old-30-Pin-Male-Tuchel-Connectors,-some-damage_W0QQitem\ Z320356593520QQcmdZViewItem Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "hifi_supply" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just recently acquired a Sony APR24 (16 track 2") and looking for 4 of these connectors. Can anyone recommend a source? Or does anyone have any knocking about? > > Thanks, > Tom > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1686 From: gael guilarte Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: 30-pin Tuchel connectors gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email funky junk in france get the connector with xlr on the other side for cheap best regards --- On Wed, 4/15/09, Ki wrote: From: Ki Subject: [sony_apr] Re: 30-pin Tuchel connectors To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 9:17 PM Hi Tom: Try eBay... http://cgi.ebay. com/FOUR- old-30-Pin- Male-Tuchel- Connectors, -some-damage_ W0QQitemZ3203565 93520QQcmdZViewI tem Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com, "hifi_supply" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just recently acquired a Sony APR24 (16 track 2") and looking for 4 of these connectors. Can anyone recommend a source? Or does anyone have any knocking about? > > Thanks, > Tom > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1687 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:27 pm Subject: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer richardlhess Offline Send Email From http://prosoundnews.com/article/21288 Hochstrasser to Retire from Studer 04.23.2009 2004-4-23-Studer Adrian Curtis Potters Bar, UK (April 23, 2009)--Bruno Hochstrasser, Studer's executive VP of sales, will retire at the end of 2009. Hochstrasser's retirement makes way for Adrian Curtis, previously VP of Sales for Soundcraft, to take on the mantle for both Soundcraft and Studer. Curtis will assume this position immediately, while Hochstrasser will remain within the sales team for the remainder of this year to ensure an effective hand-over. Andy Trott, president of Soundcraft and Studer, praised Hochstrasser for his 37 years service to Studer. "Bruno epitomizes Studer's resilience and drive for innovation; he managed the business during the days when every top studio in the world had a Studer reel-to-reel tape machine, then, when the recording market changed dramatically during the '90s he transitioned the business into the world's leading digital console company we know today. Bruno is respected by customers and staff alike and although we will miss him, we respect his decision to retire although we have asked Bruno to remain with us in a consultative role for a further two years after the end of 2009. "That said, I'm also very excited that we have such a worthy successor in Adrian Curtis. I know Adrian will add his own considerable experience to that of the Studer sales force and we expect great things from the combined team." Curtis has over 25 years' experience in Soundcraft, plus MBI Broadcast Systems, Amek and BSS along the way. "These changes reflect a definite recent shift in the markets' behavior," he observed. "Three years ago, we were developing Soundcraft or Studer products for specific and separate markets, for instance broadcast versus touring, and that was reflected in the skills base and focus of our two separate sales teams. Now that we have a significant range of very flexible digital consoles, the distinguishing lines between applications are less defined and our products have become adaptable to all our markets." Curtis will remain headquartered in Potters Bar near London, with an office at Studer's factory in Regensdorf, near Zurich, Switzerland. Soundcraft & Studer, units of Harman International Industries, Inc. www.harman.com Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1688 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:35 pm Subject: Re: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer engjch13 Offline Send Email Let's go have a pint with him! Jeff Richard L. Hess wrote: > Curtis will remain headquartered in Potters Bar near London, Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1689 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:24 pm Subject: Re: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi, I remember Bruno showing us around the Studer plant in Regensdorf at the AES Convention in 1976. I still remember his courtesy. He's a prince of a guy. Here is a photo you might like to see: http://www.appleson.com/photog13.htm Best Regards Pat Appleson A Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1690 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:05 am Subject: Re: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer eddieaudio Offline Send Email Pat wow! What a great picture! I worked at MCI in 1976. I saw Lutz and Jeep regularly and this is exactly how I remember them. Jeep came by to my station early on in my brief stay there, asked a bunch of questions and then walked away. It wasn't till after that I learned he was THE MAN! He was just a regular guy, no pretensions. eddie > > > Hi, > > I remember Bruno showing us around the Studer plant in Regensdorf at > the AES Convention in 1976. > I still remember his courtesy. He's a prince of a guy. Here is a > photo you might like to see: http://www.appleson.com/photog13.htm > > > Best Regards > Pat Appleson > > A > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1691 From: Pat Appleson Date: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:29 pm Subject: Re: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer appleson1 Offline Send Email Eddie, I did not know that!!!!! (grin) Have we ever met? At the time I was the AES Miami Section President. But over time all the members left for LA or NY and the chapter folded. Today, they have a student group at UM and when you mention there was a real AES in the '70's they give you that dear in the headlights look. Anyway, thanks for the kind words. I've silently been a big fan of your writing's in the Rag Mags. From your writings I feel we are kindred spirits on the same wavelength, when most of the readers don't know anything close to technical. My favorite pet peeve today, is these software plugin's that "sound exactly like the original hardware". They must, because they hired an art director to draw a picture, excuse me, a graphic, of the hardware box on the CRT, excuse me, video display. The better it looks on screen, the better it sounds. Here's my money. (grin) Man, I've got to get into "manufacturing". It's so close to what record promotion was in the old days. HYPE. Of coarse, I'm wrong, because they'll tell me that "Ricky Tick & the Nose Pickers" had six gold records after running their "Creative Work" thru the box. So, what do I know? (grin) I've still got my 2/4 track MCI circa 1976. I was the afternoon man at WWOK-AM/WIGL-FM Miami and spent nights spinning at the Hunters Lounge in Miami Springs to make enough money to eat. I saved all my pennies and ordered the deck, then the next day, marched into HiFi Associates on the Blvd. and purchased a pair of McIntosh 300 power amps. Two years later, I sold them to the BeeGees and bought BGW. I've been using Bryston's for the last 19 years and trying to collect on their 20 warranty. The problem is they sound as good as the day I plugged them in. (grin) Hey, Jeep was a cool guy, Lutz Myer his International Sales Mgr, at the time and I have become great friends over the years. He's got the same large framed photo of the three of us hanging in his office at Recording Media and Equipment in Fort Lauderdale About four or five years after I bought the machine, I told Jeep, I think it needed heads and updates. He said bring it in. It was nuts, He put about six guys on it and when they needed a part that wasn't in the parts dept. They said go get one off the line. So they scuttled a new machine or two for parts. Now this was all done in the space of six hours. Heads, breaks, all kinds of power supply tweeks. I mean, you could spend a day on the supply alone. Anything that didn't look right. They pitched the Analogue Turkey board, PLL board and any thing else that had the "bad" red IC sockets. So, for 500 bucks, I got a new machine. Today, it's running with every ECO known to man!!! Jeep was a great help and mentor, I loved the guy. Also, Lutz Myer, Ted "Mr. Personality" Staros, Tom, you gonna drink that beer?, Haye, Greg Lampen, Seth, "no, it's just grass seed" Snyder and the whole crew were great humans. Oh, the plane ride over to the AES in Zurich and the whole thing was really impressive for me. There was no Internet at the time and the only way to find out who was behind these audio developments and inventions was to read HiFi Mag or the AES Journal. So, I'm sitting on the plane minding my own business and Benjamin Bower, then of CBS Labs reaches across the isle and introduces himself. I didn't believe it was him in the flesh, till he gave me his card. Then, I got to ride over to a dinner party on the bus sitting next to John Eargle of JBL. I got a college education on a twenty minute bus ride. Then at dinner I was seated next to a big hairy guy. Turns out it was John Curl. He told me in great detail what he was doing with the Grateful Deads PA system. A real hard core geek. I loved him. Then, one night we went to a cocktail party for Wlli Studers buddy Georg Neumann. By this time, Bruno Hostrasser and Peter Frey have gotten me on a first name basis with Dr. Studer. So, Willi walks up and says 'he Pat, I want you to meet George". Is that cool or what. Picture the party scene from the Boys from Brazil. (grin) Neuman was about 86 or 90 years old at the time and as I recall, sharp as a tack. Great memories. Eddie, keep up the good work. Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1692 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:03 pm Subject: Re: Bruno Hochstrasser to retire from Studer eddieaudio Offline Send Email Thanks you so much Pat! John Eargle forgot more than I'll ever know, but, the brief encounter I had with him, well, he was good people - an out-of-the-box thinker before that phrase was coined. It is nice when you find your ideas are not so unique when someone else is doing a similar thing (and understands why). My time at MCI was brief, but I learned alot. Florida started getting too hot in May and I went back north. http://www.tangible-technology.com/a_dig/mci/mci_77.html > > > Eddie, > > I did not know that!!!!! (grin) > Have we ever met? > At the time I was the AES Miami Section President. But over time all > the members left for LA or NY and the chapter folded. > Today, they have a student group at UM and when you mention there was > a real AES in the '70's they give you that dear in the headlights look. > > Anyway, thanks for the kind words. I've silently been a big fan of > your writing's in the Rag Mags. From your writings I feel we are > kindred spirits on the same wavelength, when most of the readers > don't know anything close to technical. My favorite pet peeve today, > is these software plugin's that "sound exactly like the original > hardware". They must, because they hired an art director to draw a > picture, excuse me, a graphic, of the hardware box on the CRT, excuse > me, video display. The better it looks on screen, the > better it sounds. Here's my money. (grin) Man, I've got to get into > "manufacturing". It's so close to what record promotion was in the > old days. HYPE. Of coarse, I'm wrong, because they'll tell me that > "Ricky Tick & the Nose Pickers" had six gold records after running > their "Creative Work" thru the box. So, what do I know? (grin) > > I've still got my 2/4 track MCI circa 1976. I was the afternoon man > at WWOK-AM/WIGL-FM Miami and spent nights spinning at the Hunters > Lounge in Miami Springs to make enough money to eat. I saved all my > pennies and ordered the deck, then the next day, marched into HiFi > Associates on the Blvd. and purchased a pair of McIntosh 300 power > amps. Two years later, I sold them to the BeeGees and bought > BGW. I've been using Bryston's for the last 19 years and trying to > collect on their 20 warranty. The problem is they sound as good as > the day I plugged them in. (grin) > > Hey, Jeep was a cool guy, Lutz Myer his International Sales Mgr, at > the time and I have become great friends over the years. He's got > the same large framed photo of the three of us hanging in his office > at Recording Media and Equipment in Fort Lauderdale > > About four or five years after I bought the machine, I told Jeep, I > think it needed heads and updates. He said bring it in. It was nuts, > He put about six guys on it and when they needed a part that wasn't > in the parts dept. They said go get one off the line. So they > scuttled a new machine or two for parts. Now this was all done in > the space of six hours. Heads, breaks, all kinds of power supply > tweeks. I mean, you could spend a day on the supply alone. Anything > that didn't look right. They pitched the Analogue Turkey board, > PLL board and any thing else that had the "bad" red IC sockets. So, > for 500 bucks, I got a new machine. Today, it's running with every > ECO known to man!!! > > Jeep was a great help and mentor, I loved the guy. Also, Lutz Myer, > Ted "Mr. Personality" Staros, Tom, you gonna drink that beer?, Haye, > Greg Lampen, Seth, "no, it's just grass seed" Snyder and the whole > crew were great humans. > > Oh, the plane ride over to the AES in Zurich and the whole thing was > really impressive for me. There was no Internet at the time and the > only way to find out who was behind these audio developments and > inventions was to read HiFi Mag or the AES Journal. So, I'm sitting > on the plane minding my own business and Benjamin Bower, then of CBS > Labs reaches across the isle and introduces himself. > I didn't believe it was him in the flesh, till he gave me his card. > Then, I got to ride over to a dinner party on the bus sitting next to > John Eargle of JBL. I got a college education on a twenty minute bus > ride. Then at dinner I was seated next to a big hairy guy. Turns > out it was John Curl. He told me in great detail what he was doing > with the Grateful Deads PA system. A real hard core geek. I loved > him. Then, one night we went to a cocktail party for Wlli Studers > buddy Georg Neumann. By this time, Bruno Hostrasser and Peter Frey > have gotten me on a first name basis with Dr. Studer. So, Willi > walks up and says 'he Pat, I want you to meet George". Is that cool > or what. Picture the party scene from the Boys from Brazil. > (grin) Neuman was about 86 or 90 years old at the time and as I > recall, sharp as a tack. Great memories. > > Eddie, keep up the good work. > Best Regards > Pat > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1693 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:27 am Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to help. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Hi guys, > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > suggestions on what might be going on? > > Thanks. Dana > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1694 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:46 am Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback eddieaudio Offline Send Email You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left side, the big black heatsink). eddie > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to > help. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > Dana White wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1695 From: TheNymos Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:48 am Subject: APR 24 nymoau Offline Send Email Hi there, I currently have a Tascam 85/16 1 of which I track bands on and it works ok. I have a line on an APR 24, but there doesn't seem to be much love for this machine at various communities like GS etc (this one is different I'm sure !) Am I going to see an obvious difference in quality with the APR 24 ?? or is there really not much more *tape magic* to be had than what I have now ?? I suppose what I am trying to ask, is the difference large enough to warrant the investment in the APR 24 ? Cheers John NYMO Nyman www.myspace.com/redberryrecords Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1696 From: eddie ciletti Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:55 am Subject: Re: APR 24 eddieaudio Offline Send Email John, While I have used the 85-16 on countless sessions, you pretty much have to use the noise reduction. ANY 24 track tape machine is going to offer better performance, signal to noise in particular, low frequency response, headroom (some tape magic is related to saturation), wow and flutter. If you are currently using the 85-16 with the built-in noise reduction then you are not realizing much tape magic and most likely noticing some pumping (noise reduction artifacts) eddie > > > Hi there, > > I currently have a Tascam 85/16 1 of which I track bands on and it > works ok. > > I have a line on an APR 24, but there doesn't seem to be much love > for this machine at various communities like GS etc > (this one is different I'm sure !) > > Am I going to see an obvious difference in quality with the APR 24 ?? > or is there really not much more *tape magic* to be had than what I > have now ?? > > I suppose what I am trying to ask, is the difference large enough to > warrant the investment in the APR 24 ? > > Cheers > > John NYMO Nyman > > www.myspace.com/redberryrecords > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1697 From: Dana White Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:54 am Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Thanks guys, I'll give the reel motor amp, and bias setting a look. What I've been able to see so far is; Upon turing on the machine, the tone (oscilation?) is being amplified through the speaker, even with the volume and channel controls off. I forgot to mention this because I unplugged it the last time I used it, thinking I had a workaround. The tone showing up on the audio outputs increases by ten or so dB when I switch to input mode as opposed to repro. I hope to get a day soon to spend trouble shooting. Finding this kind of thing in a session isn't the most confidence inspiring experience! Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland On Apr 27, 2009, at 4:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left > side, > the big black heatsink). > > eddie > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > difficult. > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this > is a > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems > I've > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > able to > > help. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k > sine > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1698 From: Eddie Rivas Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:37 pm Subject: Re: APR 24 kingink55 Offline Send Email I just got mine up and running this year and have had no complaints about it. Also people have come in to do digital transfers with it and haven't had anyone comment negatively about the sound characteristics it may impart. I'm really happy with my machine. Eddie On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:48 AM, TheNymos wrote: > > > Hi there, > > I currently have a Tascam 85/16 1 of which I track bands on and it > works ok. > > I have a line on an APR 24, but there doesn't seem to be much love > for this machine at various communities like GS etc > (this one is different I'm sure !) > > Am I going to see an obvious difference in quality with the APR 24 ?? > or is there really not much more *tape magic* to be had than what I > have now ?? > > I suppose what I am trying to ask, is the difference large enough to > warrant the investment in the APR 24 ? > > Cheers > > John NYMO Nyman > > www.myspace.com/redberryrecords > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1699 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:18 pm Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Eddie, You may be on to something. I never heard the oscillations, just felt the effects in the sizzling RMD board. Dana, I've heard the amplifier in the meter housing squeal. I can't remember if it came out of the output connectors as well. I would suggest disabling the power amp in the meter housing as well. With something like this, isolating as much as possible is key to find the problem. Good luck and post anything you find that may be useful. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left side, > the big black heatsink). > > eddie > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to > > help. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1700 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Cary, I've heard the monitor amp in the meter bridge sizzle, but calm down. What can I do to stop that? I assume it's a capacitor. Cheers, Richard At 10:18 PM 2009-04-27, you wrote: >Eddie, > >You may be on to something. I never heard the oscillations, just >felt the effects in the sizzling RMD board. Dana, I've heard the >amplifier in the meter housing squeal. I can't remember if it came >out of the output connectors as well. I would suggest disabling the >power amp in the meter housing as well. With something like this, >isolating as much as possible is key to find the problem. Good luck >and post anything you find that may be useful. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left side, > > the big black heatsink). > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to > > > help. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1701 From: TheNymos Date: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:20 am Subject: Re: APR 24 nymoau Offline Send Email > If you are currently using the 85-16 with the built-in noise reduction > then you are not realizing much tape magic and most likely noticing > some > pumping (noise reduction artifacts) Hi there, Thanx for the heads up ! Believe it or not , I don't use any noise reduction on the 85/16 and i have to say the floor noise is actually pretty low ! (the dbx just totally ruined the sound) I am pretty fussy about background tape hiss, but I must say I am impressed with the noise floor level on this. I have Bias Sound Soap Pro in my arsenal and I have heard nothing yet that I would need to use it on.... maybe because I slammed the audio onto 911 !! ;-) Once I transferred the tape to Pro Tools HD via Aurora 16 and boosted the levels I thought it would be bad -but it wasn't. Anyways, I take on board your other comments about the APR.... now, can i get it through the studio door ;-) Cheers John NYMO Nyman Red Berry Records [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1702 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:54 pm Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Richard, Hope all is well. During the production of the APR, we used to swap out the SBK amp because some of them oscillated. Now that the machines have aged I can only assume capacitors are the issue with sizzling. Which ones? I would say go fish . I never even turn on the monitor amp. Come to think of it, I have to go power the APR up just to make sure everything is still working. Its spent the winter in the garage under a blanket, much like the APR16 did. My protools rig is getting a lot of use lately. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Cary, > > I've heard the monitor amp in the meter bridge sizzle, but calm down. > What can I do to stop that? I assume it's a capacitor. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 10:18 PM 2009-04-27, you wrote: > >Eddie, > > > >You may be on to something. I never heard the oscillations, just > >felt the effects in the sizzling RMD board. Dana, I've heard the > >amplifier in the meter housing squeal. I can't remember if it came > >out of the output connectors as well. I would suggest disabling the > >power amp in the meter housing as well. With something like this, > >isolating as much as possible is key to find the problem. Good luck > >and post anything you find that may be useful. > > > >Cary > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left side, > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to > > > > help. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1703 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:56 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Cary, Yes, I have seen oscillation problems in those packaged power amps, but it is a heck of a lot better than the poor excuse for power amps I've seen in some "bargain" gear. Cheers, Richard At 08:54 PM 2009-04-28, you wrote: >Richard, > >Hope all is well. During the production of the APR, we used to swap >out the SBK amp because some of them oscillated. Now that the >machines have aged I can only assume capacitors are the issue with >sizzling. Which ones? I would say go fish . I never even turn >on the monitor amp. Come to think of it, I have to go power the APR >up just to make sure everything is still working. Its spent the >winter in the garage under a blanket, much like the APR16 did. My >protools rig is getting a lot of use lately. > >Cary > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > > > Hi, Cary, > > > > I've heard the monitor amp in the meter bridge sizzle, but calm down. > > What can I do to stop that? I assume it's a capacitor. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 10:18 PM 2009-04-27, you wrote: > > >Eddie, > > > > > >You may be on to something. I never heard the oscillations, just > > >felt the effects in the sizzling RMD board. Dana, I've heard the > > >amplifier in the meter housing squeal. I can't remember if it came > > >out of the output connectors as well. I would suggest disabling the > > >power amp in the meter housing as well. With something like this, > > >isolating as much as possible is key to find the problem. Good luck > > >and post anything you find that may be useful. > > > > > >Cary > > > > > >--- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's > left side, > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is difficult. > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this is a > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems I've > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be able to > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k sine > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1705 From: "Ki" Date: Fri May 1, 2009 12:28 am Subject: APR-5003 KDB board no. 1-619-181-11 STOP lite issue studerfan Offline Send Email One of my APR-5003s had R75 and R76 both 430 ohm 1/4W resistors burnt causing STOP lamp out situation. Per schematic, the R75 and R76 are in series with R77 100 ohm 1/4W to +24V and C31 10uF 25V to ground. The STOP button functions properly but the two rows of four LEDs inside the light button is not working. The deck has very low hours and I had not turned it on for several months. The STOP light was lit and then about 10 min later, the R75 and R76 were burnt. I replaced the resistors with same value. The LED lights came on after power up but it went out again after few min. I removed the KDB board again and examined the R75 and R76 were not burnt and R77 looks and measures fine at 100 ohm. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks, Ki Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1706 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat May 2, 2009 2:25 pm Subject: RE: I miss my PCM-3402 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, have you had any other thought about the PCM3402 machines? I am still interested, cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Blacklock Sent: 12 April 2009 09:45 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] I miss my PCM-3402 Hello, if its not too much trouble, I can get FedEx in to collect on our works account and this makes the shipping more interesting, the recorders have a 110 - 240 switch so that's fine, would you be able to stick these on a palette? I know that Richard will tell me its not worth the time, money or trouble and he is right as they are not very reliable or particularly rare but I do miss my one a lot and regret selling. Very interested in the pair Please email me on stuart@... Cheers! From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Karen/Kevin Peckham Sent: 12 April 2009 05:09 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] I miss my PCM-3402 Hi Richard, Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not a ton of them out there anymore. My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested in having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to the landfull. Kevin On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess >wrote: > > > Hi, Kevin, > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two ago. > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > >Hi Stuart, > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > haven't > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > >Wisconsin. > > > >Kevin Peckham > >kpeck30808@... > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > >vintage_recorders@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare keeping > it > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > > terms, > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more > than > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1707 From: "Karen/Kevin Peckham" Date: Sun May 3, 2009 11:08 am Subject: Re: I miss my PCM-3402 record2tape Offline Send Email Hi Stuart, I would be happy to see them go to someone who appreciates them enthusiastically as you do, but I think I will need to list them and seek a more local buyer for them. The economics of sending them to you doesn't work for me as too much of what you are willing to pay for them, ends up going into transportation charges. I may end up splitting them up and selling them individually, and the tape in smaller lots. New 467 is getting hard to find, and what is out there is being quoted at $75 a reel. I think I paid about a third of that for mine, but it still amounts to nearly $1000 for the unopened reels sitting here. I might do better to gradually sell off the tape in smaller lots to the few people left in the world still using them. A good trade of gear with a collector is another possibility. There are things I need that others might have. For example, last week one channel of the Saki 1/2" 2 track record head in my ATR-102 failed. Coil is open. That will set me back over $700 to buy a replacement. There might be a collector out there with a good used one I could trade with. I also need an audio channel card for my Otari MTR-100A. It is not that they are so expensive, it is just that they are hard to find as they did not make a huge number of machines, and the machines are still in operation, not generally getting parted out. I am also trying to find a set set to covert a Studer A80 to 1/2" two track, Too many projects in the works actually. Ideally, I will find some collector who would like these machines and has something useful (and smaller than these two machines) to trade for them. If you have a lead on any of these things, I would be interested. I haven't taken any dphotos of the machines yet, but in looking through my existing photos I found this shot of a fellow sitting in front of them. He had been listening to playback of a project I was doing for him. Regards, Kevin On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Stuart Blacklock < vintage_recorders@...> wrote: > > > Hello, have you had any other thought about the PCM3402 machines? I am > still > interested, cheers! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of Stuart Blacklock > Sent: 12 April 2009 09:45 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [sony_apr] I miss my PCM-3402 > > Hello, if its not too much trouble, I can get FedEx in to collect on our > works account and this makes the shipping more interesting, the recorders > have a 110 - 240 switch so that's fine, would you be able to stick these on > a palette? I know that Richard will tell me its not worth the time, money > or > trouble and he is right as they are not very reliable or particularly rare > but I do miss my one a lot and regret selling. > > Very interested in the pair > > Please email me on > > stuart@... stuart%40vintagerecorders.co.uk > > > Cheers! > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com sony_apr%40yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com sony_apr%40yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf > Of Karen/Kevin Peckham > Sent: 12 April 2009 05:09 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com sony_apr%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] I miss my PCM-3402 > > Hi Richard, > > Thanks for the message. I recall reading that you had some of these. Not > a ton of them out there anymore. > My back up plan is a local broadcast/recording museum that is interested in > having them if I don't find buyers. I promise I will not let them go to the > landfull. > > Kevin > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Richard L. Hess > arclists%40richardhess.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, Kevin, > > > > Good luck selling them. I have two 3402 and two 3202. At least one of > > each works. I did my first 3402 transfer in three years a month or two > ago. > > > > Please don't dumpster them or part them out if you can't find a > > buyer. I'd stand between the machines and a dumpster to save them, > > but I'm well equipped already for the foreseeable future. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > At 11:01 PM 2009-04-11, you wrote: > > >Hi Stuart, > > > > > > Sorry you are not in the U.S. I have a nice pair of PCM-3402s and a > > >good supply of NOS 1/4" Ampex 467 tape and I was just thinking how I > > haven't > > >used them much recently and that I should put them up for sale. > > >Unfortunately, I think it would be wildly expensive to ship them to the > > >U.K. If there are other PCM-3402 DASH enthusiasts out there who would > > >have interest in these, please contact me. They are located in Madison > > >Wisconsin. > > > > > >Kevin Peckham > > >kpeck30808@... kpeck30808%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > >On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Stuart Blacklock < > > >vintage_recorders@... vintage_recorders%40yahoo.co.uk > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some time ago I sold my PCM-3402 and though it was a nightmare > keeping > > it > > > > running and overall nothing special in musical terms, in a collectors > > > > terms, > > > > I miss it, does anyone know were in the UK I may find another or more > > than > > > > one? Would love to get my hands on one again. > > > > > > > > Cheers all! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > 40richardhess.com> > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 > 10:51:00 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 > 10:51:00 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1708 From: "Ki" Date: Sun May 3, 2009 10:58 pm Subject: Re: APR-5003 KDB board no. 1-619-181-11 STOP lite issue studerfan Offline Send Email Update: After replacing the R75 and R76 - the problem was fixed and then the STOP lite went out again. However, I must have been in a too big hurry to say the problem was not solved. Today, I took the KDB board out again and examined the resistors to be fine by sight and measured +24V supply dropped down to ~22.5V at the registors feedng the four LEDs each. When I look at the LEDs inside the switch, it sure seems only three are lit. So I looked at the other well working APR and it also looks like only three LEDs in each row are on. It might be that more currents were drawn by the 3 LEDs and one shorted LED through the R75 and R76 burning them up - ¤Ñ may be... I decided not to take the STOP switch out and just monitor for now. The STOP LEDs been on for about five hours. I will let it go for 24 hours before declaring it's back to normal health. These are truly nice machines - although they are much more finiky than the Studers. When they are working properly, I often prefer Sony APR-5003 over other master recorders. Only if I can replace the noisy fan... With help from Paul, I will report my findings on fan replacement. Thanks, Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > One of my APR-5003s had R75 and R76 both 430 ohm 1/4W resistors burnt > causing STOP lamp out situation. > > Per schematic, the R75 and R76 are in series with R77 100 ohm 1/4W to +24V and C31 10uF 25V to ground. The STOP button functions properly but the two rows of four LEDs inside the light > button is not working. > > The deck has very low hours and I had not turned it on for several months. The STOP light was lit and then about 10 min later, the R75 and R76 were burnt. I > replaced the resistors with same value. The LED lights came on after power up but it went out again after few min. I removed the KDB board again and examined the R75 and R76 were not burnt and R77 looks and measures fine at 100 ohm. > > Any comments would be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Ki > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1709 From: "Ki" Date: Mon May 4, 2009 11:56 am Subject: Re: APR-5003 KDB board no. 1-619-181-11 STOP lite issue studerfan Offline Send Email Update part II: Well, it happened again... The Stop lite is out after five hours. I was lucky to be at the machine when it just went out. With taking careful steps, I openned the KBD pannel and to my surprise, the supply voltage had gone up to +26.5V with the Stop LEDs out. I turned off the machine and turn it back on suspecting the root cause of the problem to be the power supply for +24V and the heat from having power on for 5 hours. Sure enough, when I turned the machine back on, the supply voltage was ~+24V with Stop LEDs lit but soon went up to >+26VDC and LEDs went out. In studying the schematics, the +24VDC supply for KBD came from RG-2 board in the PS section. I confirmed the runaway voltage at the CSL board pin 4 as well. I took the PS section out of the chassis last night. I plan to clean and do a visual check and blow out the dust (not much accumulation). Looking at the RG-2 schematic, The problem might be with +36V supply caps. While I took the PS section out, I plan to replace the fan. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > Update: > > After replacing the R75 and R76 - the problem was fixed and then the STOP lite went out again. However, I must have been in a too big hurry to say the problem was not solved. > > Today, I took the KDB board out again and examined the resistors to be fine by sight and measured +24V supply dropped down to ~22.5V at the registors feedng the four LEDs each. When I look at the LEDs inside the switch, it sure seems only three are lit. So I looked at the other well working APR and it also looks like only three LEDs in each row are on. It might be that more currents were drawn by the 3 LEDs and one shorted LED through the R75 and R76 burning them up - ¤Ñ may be... I decided not to take the STOP switch out and just monitor for now. > > The STOP LEDs been on for about five hours. I will let it go for 24 hours before declaring it's back to normal health. > > These are truly nice machines - although they are much more finiky than the Studers. When they are working properly, I often prefer Sony APR-5003 over other master recorders. Only if I can replace the noisy fan... With help from Paul, I will report my findings on fan replacement. > > Thanks, > > Ki > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Ki" wrote: > > > > One of my APR-5003s had R75 and R76 both 430 ohm 1/4W resistors burnt > > causing STOP lamp out situation. > > > > Per schematic, the R75 and R76 are in series with R77 100 ohm 1/4W to +24V and C31 10uF 25V to ground. The STOP button functions properly but the two rows of four LEDs inside the light > > button is not working. > > > > The deck has very low hours and I had not turned it on for several months. The STOP light was lit and then about 10 min later, the R75 and R76 were burnt. I > > replaced the resistors with same value. The LED lights came on after power up but it went out again after few min. I removed the KDB board again and examined the R75 and R76 were not burnt and R77 looks and measures fine at 100 ohm. > > > > Any comments would be helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ki > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1710 From: Justin Foley Date: Fri May 8, 2009 12:19 pm Subject: JH110C Trouble. jjfregistration Offline Send Email I tried powering up my 110C last night after no action for a month or so and found I had a problem. The transport doesn't want to move tape at all. Here's what I noticed. 1. Problem doesn't seem to be related to photocel. I disengaged the photocel and there was no change. 2. No lights are coming up on the transport control (although AutolocatorIII does display numbers). Looks like no power going to the transport controls (?). 3. I took off the phase loop lock board and measured voltages across the mother board pins near the lower right hand side of the PLL board. When I compared these with a working machine, I noticed that DC values all negative where the working machine was positive and that some were nearly zero while reading very high (more than 20V) on the working machine. Any ideas? Nothing's really changed around the machine - no trauma that I'm aware of. = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1711 From: "petersinnett" Date: Sat May 9, 2009 4:32 am Subject: Re: JH110C Trouble. petersinnett Offline Send Email Hi Justin, Sounds to me like the gradual, (and inevitable), corrosion that occurs on the board connector pins. The dreaded 'Molex' connectors. Before you consider anything else, I think it would be best to eliminate this possibility. Remove, (unplug), each board, clean the pins, (I use a fibreglass pen for this job), and then treat the pins and sockets with a good electronic cleaner/lubricant. It would also be nice to clean the sockets, but, as yet, I have not found an effective way of doing this, other than to plug the board in and out a few times. If any other members have a good way of doing this I would be very interested to hear it. If you do the above and still have the problem, then you can also do the same procedure with the socketed ICs, but be warned, it is a time consuming and labourious process. I cannot guarantee that it will solve it, but considering that nothing has occurred recently with the JH110C, I would say it is the most likely explanation. Regards, Peter (Devon UK). ______________________________ --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Justin Foley wrote: > > I tried powering up my 110C last night after no action for a month or so and found I had a problem. > > The transport doesn't want to move tape at all. Here's what I noticed. > > 1. Problem doesn't seem to be related to photocel. I disengaged the photocel and there was no change. > 2. No lights are coming up on the transport control (although AutolocatorIII does display numbers). Looks like no power going to the transport controls (?). > 3. I took off the phase loop lock board and measured voltages across the mother board pins near the lower right hand side of the PLL board. When I compared these with a working machine, I noticed that DC values all negative where the working machine was positive and that some were nearly zero while reading very high (more than 20V) on the working machine. > > Any ideas? Nothing's really changed around the machine - no trauma that I'm aware of. > > = Justin > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1712 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sat May 9, 2009 9:42 am Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I may have 'tuned in' late, but, why don't you measure the voltage at the output of the power supply and go from there? best Regards Pat www.appleson.com owner of MCI 2/4 track mo sheen. former owner of two eight track one inch MCI's. and still owner of all kinds of spare boards. Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1713 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat May 9, 2009 10:55 am Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. eddieaudio Offline Send Email Same as Pat, tuned in late. Take the power supply out, tighten capacitor and transistor screws, exercise all molex connectors and those damned Jones plugs - if not shiny, start polishing - and exercise the female "Mrs Jones" too - all the way up to the transport. Also, I am inclined to grab each molex pin with a long-nosed pliers and give 'em a gentle twist - if they turn, then resolder. eddie ciletti > > Hi Guys, > > I may have 'tuned in' late, but, why don't you measure the voltage at > the output of the > power supply and go from there? > > best Regards > Pat > www.appleson.com > > owner of MCI 2/4 track mo sheen. > former owner of two eight track one inch MCI's. > and still owner of all kinds of spare boards. > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1714 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sat May 9, 2009 2:32 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. appleson1 Offline Send Email Now You're talkin' pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1715 From: Stephen Anderson Date: Sat May 9, 2009 3:08 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. stephenaudio Offline Send Email In re: Jones plugs, I've found over the years that it helps to give the male pins a little twist, this seats them more firmly in the female receptacle. I worked on a JH16-24 a few years back, had to take both strong contact cleaner and a fiberglass abrasive tool to the ones on the audi power supply. Steve On May 9, 2009, at 7:55 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > Same as Pat, tuned in late. > > Take the power supply out, tighten capacitor and transistor screws, > exercise all molex connectors and those damned Jones plugs - if not > shiny, start polishing - and exercise the female "Mrs Jones" too - all > the way up to the transport. > > Also, I am inclined to grab each molex pin with a long-nosed pliers > and > give 'em a gentle twist - if they turn, then resolder. > > eddie ciletti > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > I may have 'tuned in' late, but, why don't you measure the > voltage at > > the output of the > > power supply and go from there? > > > > best Regards > > Pat > > www.appleson.com > > > > owner of MCI 2/4 track mo sheen. > > former owner of two eight track one inch MCI's. > > and still owner of all kinds of spare boards. > > > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > > 2359 Highway 70, SE > > Suite 102 > > Hickory, NC 28602 > > 828 465-5500 or > > 954 802-3663 > > www.appleson.com > > email: appleson@... > > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Stephen Anderson 12146 Rahn Ave Granada Hills, CA 91344 818.366.5633 voice 818.521.1105 cel SteveAudio@... http://SteveAudio.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1716 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat May 9, 2009 3:51 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. eddieaudio Offline Send Email RE: Jones plugs I'd be inclined to replace them if they are loose and gray - really, if you want the machine to be reliable, it's a good place to start. eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1717 From: "Thomas W. Bethel" Date: Sat May 9, 2009 5:16 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. audiopro2000... Offline Send Email One of the best things you can get yourself is Stabilant 22 for any switch contacts or plugs, Here is their website http://www.stabilant.com/ Read the website. I had an older Neotek console that was in really bad shape, I used the Stabilant 22 and it worked so well I did not have to replace the switches. Highly recommended. REMEMBER a little goes a long way so don't be put off by their prices. The people are also GREAT to work with. -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 440-775-3681 www.acoustikmusik.com Doing what you love is freedom. Loving what you do is happiness. eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > RE: Jones plugs > > I'd be inclined to replace them if they are loose and gray - really, if > you want the machine to be reliable, it's a good place to start. > > eddie ciletti > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00 > Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1718 From: andrew morris Date: Mon May 11, 2009 1:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email Im not sure how to install directly to the pcbs of the jh machines but for molex cables I use "trifurcon" pins that hold on 3 sides of the pin and since Ive put them in several different types of units, Ive had zero molex contact issues on those machines. --- On Sat, 5/9/09, Thomas W. Bethel wrote: From: Thomas W. Bethel Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: JH110C Trouble. To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 5:16 PM One of the best things you can get yourself is Stabilant 22 for any switch contacts or plugs, Here is their website http://www.stabilan t.com/ Read the website. I had an older Neotek console that was in really bad shape, I used the Stabilant 22 and it worked so well I did not have to replace the switches. Highly recommended. REMEMBER a little goes a long way so don't be put off by their prices. The people are also GREAT to work with. -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 440-775-3681 www.acoustikmusik. com Doing what you love is freedom. Loving what you do is happiness. eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > RE: Jones plugs > > I'd be inclined to replace them if they are loose and gray - really, if > you want the machine to be reliable, it's a good place to start. > > eddie ciletti > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1719 From: Justin Foley Date: Mon May 11, 2009 5:16 pm Subject: Re: JH110C Trouble. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Since it worked again for part if the weekend and then stopped, I'm assuming it's an age deterioration/connection issue as well. I'll let folks know how it goes with the recommendations on cleaning connections. I've put in an order fir Silibant. In response to the "start at the power supply and go from there", part if the reason is that I don't know how. - Justin 917-520-1855 Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1720 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue May 12, 2009 12:01 am Subject: Re: Re: JH110C Trouble. appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Justin, Well, let's see if I can help. Get a volt meter and read the outputs behind the small service cover on the power supply. It should be a dead giveaway if something is over a volt the wrong way or isn't there at all. Now, if you're just an operator. It's probably time to call the local Ham operator and turn him loose on the thing. This assumes that Fast Eddie is booked or you;re too far away. I'd love to do a house call but I'm in NC and I'm not sure where you are. I'm sorry I can't be of more help. One things for sure, if you didn't grow up with MCI, you need a service manual. Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1721 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Tue May 12, 2009 12:16 pm Subject: Calibrating without Extender Card soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello, I have an APR 5002 which I need to fully calibrate. Is there a method to calibrate 'inputs' without the extender card? Is the card something that could be made? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1722 From: "jjfregistration" Date: Wed May 13, 2009 10:56 am Subject: Re: JH110C Trouble - problem solved. jjfregistration Offline Send Email Hey folks, I spent some time on the phone with Steve Sadler (after renewing my subscription) and we chased the problem down. Turns out people here were pretty close on figuring it out. On the board that sits on top of the fan, I noticed that the two molex pins closest to where the fan blows had a bunch of dust on them. I used a wire brush that I got in my $7 soldering accessory kit at Radio Shack to get rid of some of the dust and noticed that the first pin seemed to have a crack near the board and moved back and forth more than the others. I heated the solder up on the board and wicked a little bit of it off, then reapplied just a touch of new solder in the same spot (all at a pretty low temperature). The pin was now solid, and the transport was back in business when I reassembled and reconnected everything. Funny how a tiny soldering fracture can render that whole, big machine useless. Thanks to everyone who weighed in on a solution. Oh, and I did by Stabilant, not Silibant. You can blame my autocorrect for that mistake. = Justin Reply | Messages in this Topic (12 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1723 From: "carminelaurilso" Date: Fri May 22, 2009 12:31 pm Subject: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response carminelaurilso Offline Send Email Hello to all Sony APR 5003 fans!!!, I am writing because i have decided to set up my machine for optimum performance as it clearly is not set up for my specific tapes i use. It is set up for NAB eq and i need to align it to IEC characteristics, so i can play my recorded tapes properly that i have done over the years on my A807 Studer. I have already set up the playback characteristics with my Ampex IEC test tape at 7 ½ ips which is my main speed i use, and this i am satisfied with. I use a wide variety of tapes but mainly i use Basf 468, Per 368 (LP Grey matt). Others that i occasionally use are Per 528 and Per 525. For the speed i mainly use, when i align my studer i overbias by 5 or 6 db and then of course do all the other adjustments such as freq response and levels as usual. I seem to have a problem finding data on my service manual for aligning the bias to my specific tapes i use, infact for any tape i don't seem to find the section in the manual that states the different tapes with their different bias, and here is where i need to ask for you assistance please. Can anyone please tell me by how much i should overbias the Sony for say using PEM468 and PER 368 at 7.5 and 15ips? Will it be the same values as overbiasing on a Studer A807 for the same type of tape? I have made few tests and biased the tape by 5db for a PER 369, on which i get perfect freq response readings on my Ferrograph RTS2 Test set, but when i set up the Sony using the same techniques, i seem to get a poor bass response below 150 HZ...by the time i reach around 50 HZ it drops by about 6db compared to 0 VU at 1KHz. I tried using PEM468 and overbiasing by just 2db as a test, but the same thing happens. I have obviously made sure the heads are PERFECTLY aligned with my dual trace oscilloscope and the test tape i use is recorded at 257nwb/m with which i have set my VU meters to OVU on the Sony, but get a +4db output on my Ferrograph test set unit from the sony's output. I would be most grateful if you can assist me with my tests so i can align this incredible machine to give me top results just as much as i get out of my Studer A807. Many thanks for your assistance Your sincerely Carmine Lauri Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1724 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri May 22, 2009 1:00 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response eddieaudio Offline Send Email carmine While I am sure there are people here who know the amount of overbias for that speed and tape type, there is a way to determine it for yourself. * Record a 40Hz tone @ 0VU, * high pass the output * adjust the bias for minimum distortion (harmonics above 40Hz). * You will find the this corresponds to increasing the bias until there is a perceptible level reduction (on the meter) at 40Hz. * At 7 1/2, the optimum bias is rather wide compared to 30IPS. * after optimizing both channels at 40Hz, reduce the input level level 6 to 10 dB, switch the oscillator to 10kHz and then reduce the bias until you find the peak - the amount the 10kHz output increases is the amount you will overbias for. * That should get you very much in the ballpark. * And, as with anything in the audio biz, the rest is art and preference. good luck. eddie ciletti > > > Hello to all Sony APR 5003 fans!!!, > I am writing because i have decided to set up my machine for optimum > performance as it clearly is not set up for my specific tapes i use. > It is set up for NAB eq and i need to align it to IEC characteristics, > so i can play my recorded tapes properly that i have done over the > years on my A807 Studer. > > I have already set up the playback characteristics with my Ampex IEC > test tape at 7 ½ ips which is my main speed i use, and this i am > satisfied with. I use a wide variety of tapes but mainly i use Basf > 468, Per 368 (LP Grey matt). Others that i occasionally use are Per > 528 and Per 525. For the speed i mainly use, when i align my studer i > overbias by 5 or 6 db and then of course do all the other adjustments > such as freq response and levels as usual. > > I seem to have a problem finding data on my service manual for > aligning the bias to my specific tapes i use, infact for any tape i > don't seem to find the section in the manual that states the different > tapes with their different bias, and here is where i need to ask for > you assistance please. > > Can anyone please tell me by how much i should overbias the Sony for > say using PEM468 and PER 368 at 7.5 and 15ips? Will it be the same > values as overbiasing on a Studer A807 for the same type of tape? I > have made few tests and biased the tape by 5db for a PER 369, on which > i get perfect freq response readings on my Ferrograph RTS2 Test set, > but when i set up the Sony using the same techniques, i seem to get a > poor bass response below 150 HZ...by the time i reach around 50 HZ it > drops by about 6db compared to 0 VU at 1KHz. I tried using PEM468 and > overbiasing by just 2db as a test, but the same thing happens. > > I have obviously made sure the heads are PERFECTLY aligned with my > dual trace oscilloscope and the test tape i use is recorded at > 257nwb/m with which i have set my VU meters to OVU on the Sony, but > get a +4db output on my Ferrograph test set unit from the sony's output. > > I would be most grateful if you can assist me with my tests so i can > align this incredible machine to give me top results just as much as i > get out of my Studer A807. > > Many thanks for your assistance > > Your sincerely > > Carmine Lauri > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1725 From: Pat Appleson Date: Fri May 22, 2009 11:35 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi, Now let me get this straight. You're using PEM 468 at 7.5ips and complaining about LF roll off? (grin). If you have the deck working well in PB and the 100Hz tone is within say 2db of 0, I'd say you're doing fine. So why not use the deck to capture the signal and go right to HD and back up like, RAID & DVD-ROM, or perhaps a couple of bricks of Quantum 600a's. Are you using old Agfa? Why? I mean, I hate to sound like Simon Cowell here, but, why on earth would you want to record a signal on that machine at 7.5ips today? I don't get it. And before the cards and letters start coming in, I own a couple of MCI's but not as "new" as your Sony APR series. And I would never at this late date consider recording on the thing. Playing back yes. On the other hand, if I had a use for it in my business, I'd put my money down on that "Mark Spitz" one inch two track. I forget the name of the guy, out in CA. But that one looked like a hot rodders dream. Best regards pat ps... I've forgotten the "secret" bias setting I got from Agfa for PEM468 at 7.5. (3.5db Over at 10K rings a bell, depending on the rec head gap and bias freq, etc We do not go crazy in the over bias dept., I like to hear the highs) I used it for about 15 years in the US. I dubbed 2000 reel to reel commercials per month for a national furniture chain. (Levitz). I loved the tape and of coarse MCI rules!!!! Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1726 From: Pat Appleson Date: Fri May 22, 2009 11:49 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response appleson1 Offline Send Email Yo Carmine, Eddie is correct, Follow his "adj bias for min Distortion". This is for the hard core geeks who have only one or two machines to fool with. I was running 20 decks and Eddie's method is still the best. I remember this being referred to around the MCI factory as the "Bias Rocks" routine. Meaning you listen for min 'crap-o-la' with the volume turned way up. (grin). Like Eddie says the rest is art and preference. I knew I was doing it right when in about 1983 or so, the rep from Audio Science or something like that, shows up to give me a demo of their new $12500.00 test box. You can buy the same thing today for 3500 and plug it into your laptop. So the guy hooks up the test set to my MCI 2/4 set up for quarter inch two track and was truly amazed. From the look on his face, I thought I must have been the biggest screw up in the world of tape deck owners. But, he said, oh, my, your bias is right on, it's out to 20K!!! I said, well isn't it supposed to be? He said yes, but we don't see it done this well every day. He lost a sale, I didn't need the test set. Poor guy. What was the name of that thing, brown & beige with one meter on it? Okay, I'm out of material Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1727 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sat May 23, 2009 11:28 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response engjch13 Offline Send Email Sound Technologies? I picked up one recently for a few hundred bucks. Still useful. Jeff Chestek Pat Appleson wrote: > > I knew I was doing > it right when in about 1983 or so, the rep from Audio Science or > something like that, shows up to give me a demo of their new > $12500.00 test box. You can buy the same thing today for 3500 and > plug it into your laptop. > > > What was the name of that thing, brown & beige with one meter on it? > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1728 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Sat May 23, 2009 11:42 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response rtymeout Offline Send Email The Potomac Instruments AA-51 & AG-51 are very helpful as well! Craig T. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Chestek To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:28 am Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response Sound Technologies? I picked up one recently for a few hundred bucks. Still useful. Jeff Chestek Pat Appleson wrote: > > I knew I was doing > it right when in about 1983 or so, the rep from Audio Science or > something like that, shows up to give me a demo of their new > $12500.00 test box. You can buy the same thing today for 3500 and > plug it into your laptop. > > > What was the name of that thing, brown & beige with one meter on it? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1729 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat May 23, 2009 3:35 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response richardlhess Offline Send Email I like the Amber 3501 -- bought a spare a while back. At 11:42 AM 2009-05-23, you wrote: >The Potomac Instruments AA-51 & AG-51 are very helpful as well! > >Craig T. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1730 From: "ladewd" Date: Mon May 25, 2009 1:22 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Carmine, When I worked at the factory, I had the opportunity (it was part of my job) to determine overbias for quite a few different tapes based on the 3rd harmonic distortion for the APR5000 and APR24 series. Its been over 15 years, but I can tell you that most tapes require just about the same amount of bias give or take a 1/2dB. The magic numbers I came up with as a recommended bias were always right about 1.5-2dB @ 30ips, 3.5-4 dB @ 15ips and 4.5-5dB @ 7.5ips regardless of the tape formulation tested. I tried Agfa 468 (?), Scotch 996, 250, 226 and Ampex 456, 499. They closed the plant by the time GP9 came out. The higher values resulted in lower distortion specs. These were never published in the manual, but your rec head gap width is 250 mils, and at least Quantigy/Ampex had an chart explaining recommended bias for certain gap widths. I think 499 was 1.75, but I actually got better distortion results with 2dB. There was a technical bulletin released with all these figures, but I don't have it anymore. Bottom line is if you go 2, 3.75 and 4.5 for 30ips, 15ips and 7.5ips respectively, you'll be in the ball park. I prefer being a little lighter on the overbias because I liked the sound better, but some minor distortion has always been pleasing to my ear. So I would use 1.75, 3.5 and 4.5. It really depends on your taste. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > carmine > > While I am sure there are people here who know the amount of overbias > for that speed and tape type, there is a way to determine it for yourself. > > * Record a 40Hz tone @ 0VU, > * high pass the output > * adjust the bias for minimum distortion (harmonics above 40Hz). > * You will find the this corresponds to increasing the bias until > there is a perceptible level reduction (on the meter) at 40Hz. > * At 7 1/2, the optimum bias is rather wide compared to 30IPS. > * after optimizing both channels at 40Hz, reduce the input level > level 6 to 10 dB, switch the oscillator to 10kHz and then reduce > the bias until you find the peak - the amount the 10kHz output > increases is the amount you will overbias for. > * That should get you very much in the ballpark. > * And, as with anything in the audio biz, the rest is art and > preference. > > > good luck. > > eddie ciletti > > > > > > Hello to all Sony APR 5003 fans!!!, > > I am writing because i have decided to set up my machine for optimum > > performance as it clearly is not set up for my specific tapes i use. > > It is set up for NAB eq and i need to align it to IEC characteristics, > > so i can play my recorded tapes properly that i have done over the > > years on my A807 Studer. > > > > I have already set up the playback characteristics with my Ampex IEC > > test tape at 7 ½ ips which is my main speed i use, and this i am > > satisfied with. I use a wide variety of tapes but mainly i use Basf > > 468, Per 368 (LP Grey matt). Others that i occasionally use are Per > > 528 and Per 525. For the speed i mainly use, when i align my studer i > > overbias by 5 or 6 db and then of course do all the other adjustments > > such as freq response and levels as usual. > > > > I seem to have a problem finding data on my service manual for > > aligning the bias to my specific tapes i use, infact for any tape i > > don't seem to find the section in the manual that states the different > > tapes with their different bias, and here is where i need to ask for > > you assistance please. > > > > Can anyone please tell me by how much i should overbias the Sony for > > say using PEM468 and PER 368 at 7.5 and 15ips? Will it be the same > > values as overbiasing on a Studer A807 for the same type of tape? I > > have made few tests and biased the tape by 5db for a PER 369, on which > > i get perfect freq response readings on my Ferrograph RTS2 Test set, > > but when i set up the Sony using the same techniques, i seem to get a > > poor bass response below 150 HZ...by the time i reach around 50 HZ it > > drops by about 6db compared to 0 VU at 1KHz. I tried using PEM468 and > > overbiasing by just 2db as a test, but the same thing happens. > > > > I have obviously made sure the heads are PERFECTLY aligned with my > > dual trace oscilloscope and the test tape i use is recorded at > > 257nwb/m with which i have set my VU meters to OVU on the Sony, but > > get a +4db output on my Ferrograph test set unit from the sony's output. > > > > I would be most grateful if you can assist me with my tests so i can > > align this incredible machine to give me top results just as much as i > > get out of my Studer A807. > > > > Many thanks for your assistance > > > > Your sincerely > > > > Carmine Lauri > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1731 From: andrew morris Date: Thu May 28, 2009 11:53 am Subject: Re: Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email over the years, I have had stellar results by: walking up to an unfamiliar machine, Ill run 1k and bias to peak, just to see if all channels can do it. then run 10k for the typical overbias of 1.5 30ips and 2.5 db at 15ips. then run a CD of a commercially bought artist of the same style to all channels. with the slightest movement of the tweaker or byt going up and down 1 increment you can "hear" the track open up. not just the high end getting brighter, you can hear a veil being lifted on the sound. EVERY time ive done this, the engineer comes back later to say that the machines sounds incredible. --- On Mon, 5/25/09, ladewd wrote: From: ladewd Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Sony APR 5003V overbiasing help / frequency response To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 1:22 PM Hi Carmine, When I worked at the factory, I had the opportunity (it was part of my job) to determine overbias for quite a few different tapes based on the 3rd harmonic distortion for the APR5000 and APR24 series. Its been over 15 years, but I can tell you that most tapes require just about the same amount of bias give or take a 1/2dB. The magic numbers I came up with as a recommended bias were always right about 1.5-2dB @ 30ips, 3.5-4 dB @ 15ips and 4.5-5dB @ 7.5ips regardless of the tape formulation tested. I tried Agfa 468 (?), Scotch 996, 250, 226 and Ampex 456, 499. They closed the plant by the time GP9 came out. The higher values resulted in lower distortion specs. These were never published in the manual, but your rec head gap width is 250 mils, and at least Quantigy/Ampex had an chart explaining recommended bias for certain gap widths. I think 499 was 1.75, but I actually got better distortion results with 2dB. There was a technical bulletin released with all these figures, but I don't have it anymore. Bottom line is if you go 2, 3.75 and 4.5 for 30ips, 15ips and 7.5ips respectively, you'll be in the ball park. I prefer being a little lighter on the overbias because I liked the sound better, but some minor distortion has always been pleasing to my ear. So I would use 1.75, 3.5 and 4.5. It really depends on your taste. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > carmine > > While I am sure there are people here who know the amount of overbias > for that speed and tape type, there is a way to determine it for yourself. > > * Record a 40Hz tone @ 0VU, > * high pass the output > * adjust the bias for minimum distortion (harmonics above 40Hz). > * You will find the this corresponds to increasing the bias until > there is a perceptible level reduction (on the meter) at 40Hz. > * At 7 1/2, the optimum bias is rather wide compared to 30IPS. > * after optimizing both channels at 40Hz, reduce the input level > level 6 to 10 dB, switch the oscillator to 10kHz and then reduce > the bias until you find the peak - the amount the 10kHz output > increases is the amount you will overbias for. > * That should get you very much in the ballpark. > * And, as with anything in the audio biz, the rest is art and > preference. > > > good luck. > > eddie ciletti > > > > > > Hello to all Sony APR 5003 fans!!!, > > I am writing because i have decided to set up my machine for optimum > > performance as it clearly is not set up for my specific tapes i use. > > It is set up for NAB eq and i need to align it to IEC characteristics, > > so i can play my recorded tapes properly that i have done over the > > years on my A807 Studer. > > > > I have already set up the playback characteristics with my Ampex IEC > > test tape at 7 ½ ips which is my main speed i use, and this i am > > satisfied with. I use a wide variety of tapes but mainly i use Basf > > 468, Per 368 (LP Grey matt). Others that i occasionally use are Per > > 528 and Per 525. For the speed i mainly use, when i align my studer i > > overbias by 5 or 6 db and then of course do all the other adjustments > > such as freq response and levels as usual. > > > > I seem to have a problem finding data on my service manual for > > aligning the bias to my specific tapes i use, infact for any tape i > > don't seem to find the section in the manual that states the different > > tapes with their different bias, and here is where i need to ask for > > you assistance please. > > > > Can anyone please tell me by how much i should overbias the Sony for > > say using PEM468 and PER 368 at 7.5 and 15ips? Will it be the same > > values as overbiasing on a Studer A807 for the same type of tape? I > > have made few tests and biased the tape by 5db for a PER 369, on which > > i get perfect freq response readings on my Ferrograph RTS2 Test set, > > but when i set up the Sony using the same techniques, i seem to get a > > poor bass response below 150 HZ...by the time i reach around 50 HZ it > > drops by about 6db compared to 0 VU at 1KHz. I tried using PEM468 and > > overbiasing by just 2db as a test, but the same thing happens. > > > > I have obviously made sure the heads are PERFECTLY aligned with my > > dual trace oscilloscope and the test tape i use is recorded at > > 257nwb/m with which i have set my VU meters to OVU on the Sony, but > > get a +4db output on my Ferrograph test set unit from the sony's output. > > > > I would be most grateful if you can assist me with my tests so i can > > align this incredible machine to give me top results just as much as i > > get out of my Studer A807. > > > > Many thanks for your assistance > > > > Your sincerely > > > > Carmine Lauri > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1732 From: Dana White Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 2:42 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It didn't help this situation. With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes away. With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to live with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration mode and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about 25 dB. It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to the RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front of the reel spindles. Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? Sincerely, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left > side, > the big black heatsink). > > eddie > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > difficult. > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this > is a > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems > I've > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > able to > > help. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k > sine > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1733 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 4:04 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Dana, You've probably already done this. But if you haven't. Make sure your voltages from the power supply are clean and green. Put a scope on 'em. gotta run. best regards pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1734 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback eddieaudio Offline Send Email Dana I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer schedule has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were either added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > Hi Guys, > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It didn't > help this situation. > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes away. > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to live > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration mode > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about 25 dB. > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to the > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front of the > reel spindles. > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > Sincerely, > Dana > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 872-9478 Boston > (503) 866-8383 Portland > >  > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left > > side, > > the big black heatsink). > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > difficult. > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this > > is a > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems > > I've > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > > able to > > > help. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > , > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k > > sine > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1735 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:17 am Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST board are oscillating. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > Dana > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer schedule > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were either > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It didn't > > help this situation. > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes away. > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to live > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration mode > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about 25 dB. > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to the > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front of the > > reel spindles. > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > Sincerely, > > Dana > > > > Dana J. White > > specializedmastering.com > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > >  > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I have worked > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made the > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the feedback loop. > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's left > > > side, > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > difficult. > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with an APR24 > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's frequency > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on the tape. > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, this > > > is a > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine and start > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related problems > > > I've > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a result of > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > > > able to > > > > help. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > , > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a present 6k > > > sine > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is stopped, and > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1736 From: Dana White Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:23 am Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Dumb question... How do you measure that? Dana Dana J. White wd wrote: > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST > board are oscillating. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > Dana > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > schedule > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were > either > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It > didn't > > > help this situation. > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes > away. > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to > live > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration > mode > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about > 25 dB. > > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to > the > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front > of the > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Dana > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > specializedmastering.com > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > >  > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I > have worked > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made > the > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's > left > > > > side, > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > > difficult. > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with > an APR24 > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's > frequency > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on > the tape. > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, > this > > > > is a > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine > and start > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related > problems > > > > I've > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a > result of > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > > > > able to > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > present 6k > > > > sine > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > stopped, and > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1737 From: Dana White Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Carey, I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The audio master card is in the bottom position and the solder points are on the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can safely move it to another slot for testing? Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. Thanks for the ideas so far! Dana On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST > board are oscillating. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > Dana > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > schedule > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were > either > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It > didn't > > > help this situation. > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes > away. > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to > live > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration > mode > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about > 25 dB. > > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to > the > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front > of the > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Dana > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > specializedmastering.com > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > >  > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I > have worked > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made > the > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's > left > > > > side, > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > > difficult. > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with > an APR24 > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's > frequency > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on > the tape. > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, > this > > > > is a > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine > and start > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related > problems > > > > I've > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a > result of > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > > > > able to > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > present 6k > > > > sine > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > stopped, and > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1738 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback eddieaudio Offline Send Email Dana how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > Hi Carey, > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The audio > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points are on > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can safely > move it to another slot for testing? > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > Dana > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST > > board are oscillating. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com , > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > > schedule > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were > > either > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced them. On > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It > > didn't > > > > help this situation. > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes > > away. > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem returns. > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more pleasant to > > live > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One other > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration > > mode > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about > > 25 dB. > > > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you referring to > > the > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front > > of the > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I > > have worked > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that were > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I made > > the > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the machine's > > left > > > > > side, > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio with > > an APR24 > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's > > frequency > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on > > the tape. > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the machine, > > this > > > > > is a > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine > > and start > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related > > problems > > > > > I've > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a > > result of > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I may be > > > > > able to > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > > present 6k > > > > > sine > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > > stopped, and > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but noticeable. Any > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1739 From: Dana White Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:59 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly sure where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it visible with the top cover off? On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > Dana > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The audio > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points are on > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can safely > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > Dana > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > > > schedule > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were > > > either > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced > them. On > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It > > > didn't > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes > > > away. > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > returns. > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > pleasant to > > > live > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One > other > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration > > > mode > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about > > > 25 dB. > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > referring to > > > the > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front > > > of the > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I > > > have worked > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that > were > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I > made > > > the > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > machine's > > > left > > > > > > side, > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio > with > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's > > > frequency > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on > > > the tape. > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > machine, > > > this > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine > > > and start > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related > > > problems > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a > > > result of > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I > may be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > > > present 6k > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1740 From: eddie ciletti Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback eddieaudio Offline Send Email Dana an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, behind the take-up motor. > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly sure > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it visible with > the top cover off? > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > Dana > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The audio > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points are on > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can safely > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on the MST > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > > > > schedule > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've made were > > > > either > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the oscillation, (or > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced > > them. On > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with mysteries. It > > > > didn't > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the problem goes > > > > away. > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > > pleasant to > > > > live > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One > > other > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter calibration > > > > mode > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level by about > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > referring to > > > > the > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right in front > > > > of the > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor amplifiers. I > > > > have worked > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that > > were > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I > > made > > > > the > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > > machine's > > > > left > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of problem is > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio > > with > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The station's > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a tone on > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > > machine, > > > > this > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the machine > > > > and start > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency related > > > > problems > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and we a > > > > result of > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I > > may be > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1741 From: Dana White Date: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:34 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Eddie, That's pretty much room temp after being on for an hour (transport stopped). APR 5000, yes. Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > Dana > > an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, behind > the take-up motor. > > > > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly sure > > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it visible with > > the top cover off? > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The > audio > > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points > are on > > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the > > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can > safely > > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not > > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on > the MST > > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > > > > > schedule > > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've > made were > > > > > either > > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the > oscillation, (or > > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced > > > them. On > > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with > mysteries. It > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the > problem goes > > > > > away. > > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > > > pleasant to > > > > > live > > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One > > > other > > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter > calibration > > > > > mode > > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level > by about > > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different > calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > > referring to > > > > > the > > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right > in front > > > > > of the > > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor > amplifiers. I > > > > > have worked > > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that > > > were > > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I > > > made > > > > > the > > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > > > machine's > > > > > left > > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of > problem is > > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio > > > with > > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The > station's > > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a > tone on > > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > > > machine, > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the > machine > > > > > and start > > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency > related > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and > we a > > > > > result of > > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I > > > may be > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1742 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:23 pm Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Dana, Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had much time to visit lately. Do you have an extender card? That's the only comfortable way to test the 15V regulators on the MST. I also recommend using an oscilloscope to troubleshoot this. What you're looking for is an AC component on a DC line. Scopes make this very easy to see. Yes you want to measure 15V and -15V referenced to ground. To refresh my memory, you're hearing this oscillation in all modes? That would be input, playback and record? That is one problem I've never encountered on an APR. Op amps and regulators usually oscillate at much higher frequencies than 6kHz. I've seen RF or oscillations beat with bias and result in a tone when recording, but if its just there all the time, that's a tough one to try and troubleshoot via the list. Eddie's idea was a good one, but if the RMD isn't hot enough to fry eggs after an hour of use (and all discolored), I'd say that's not the problem. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Thanks Eddie, > That's pretty much room temp after being on for an hour (transport > stopped). APR 5000, yes. > > Dana J. White > specializedmastering.com > (508) 872-9478 Boston > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > >  > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > Dana > > > > an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, behind > > the take-up motor. > > > > > > > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly sure > > > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it visible with > > > the top cover off? > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The > > audio > > > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points > > are on > > > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to while the > > > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can > > safely > > > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone is not > > > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on > > the MST > > > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new summer > > > > > > schedule > > > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've > > made were > > > > > > either > > > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the > > oscillation, (or > > > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and replaced > > > > them. On > > > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with > > mysteries. It > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the > > problem goes > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > > > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > > > > pleasant to > > > > > > live > > > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio path. One > > > > other > > > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter > > calibration > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level > > by about > > > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different > > calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > > > referring to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right > > in front > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor > > amplifiers. I > > > > > > have worked > > > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor amps that > > > > were > > > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just that I > > > > made > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain in the > > > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > > > > machine's > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of > > problem is > > > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a studio > > > > with > > > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The > > station's > > > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a > > tone on > > > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > > > > machine, > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the > > machine > > > > > > and start > > > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency > > related > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and > > we a > > > > > > result of > > > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the more I > > > > may be > > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin there is a > > > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when machine is > > > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1743 From: "hifi_supply" Date: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:43 pm Subject: Sony APR24 hifi_supply Offline Send Email Hi All, I've recently purchased a Sony APR24 with 16-track heads, a beautiful machine, but unfortunately in need of some attention. The good news is I managed to get the Tuchel audio connectors cheap from RS. They're listed as a DIN connector. I have the info if anyone needs it. The switches on the remote are functioning intermittently (if at all). I'm considering sending the remote to GRS Pro Audio for servicing but I may have a go at cleaning the contacts myself first. Does anyone have any experience or advice to pass on? Also, record switch for the main deck is missing. This isn't essential as I have the remote but if anyone knows where I might find one that would be great. The tape sensor only seems to function with the plastic cover removed. Any ideas? In addition to the faults above, mechanically the deck is quite noisy in operation (although it is impressively smooth and transports the tape quickly and efficiently). Is this normal? In particular the left hand tape roller/guide makes quite a racket when spinning. It seems to me that the sprung top part of it is a little tight on the tape, and rubbing slightly on the edge of the tape. When it's physically lifted up (by hand) the machine is a lot quieter. Maybe this is normal. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Tom Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1744 From: Dana White Date: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:42 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Cary, I am going to try swapping out the master board with one I know is working. If that doesn't change anything, I'll dig out the scope. I don't have an extender card though. Is that something specialized for these machines? Thanks, Dana On Jun 21, 2009, at 3:23 PM, ladewd wrote: > > > Dana, > > Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had much time to visit lately. > Do you have an extender card? That's the only comfortable way to > test the 15V regulators on the MST. I also recommend using an > oscilloscope to troubleshoot this. What you're looking for is an AC > component on a DC line. Scopes make this very easy to see. Yes you > want to measure 15V and -15V referenced to ground. To refresh my > memory, you're hearing this oscillation in all modes? That would be > input, playback and record? That is one problem I've never > encountered on an APR. Op amps and regulators usually oscillate at > much higher frequencies than 6kHz. I've seen RF or oscillations > beat with bias and result in a tone when recording, but if its just > there all the time, that's a tough one to try and troubleshoot via > the list. Eddie's idea was a good one, but if the RMD isn't hot > enough to fry eggs after an hour of use (and all discolored), I'd > say that's not the problem. > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > Thanks Eddie, > > That's pretty much room temp after being on for an hour (transport > > stopped). APR 5000, yes. > > > > Dana J. White > > specializedmastering.com > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > >  > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, > behind > > > the take-up motor. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly > sure > > > > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it > visible with > > > > the top cover off? > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The > > > audio > > > > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points > > > are on > > > > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to > while the > > > > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can > > > safely > > > > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone > is not > > > > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on > > > the MST > > > > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new > summer > > > > > > > schedule > > > > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've > > > made were > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the > > > oscillation, (or > > > > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and > replaced > > > > > them. On > > > > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with > > > mysteries. It > > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the > > > problem goes > > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > > > > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > > > > > pleasant to > > > > > > > live > > > > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio > path. One > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter > > > calibration > > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level > > > by about > > > > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different > > > calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > > > > referring to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right > > > in front > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor > > > amplifiers. I > > > > > > > have worked > > > > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor > amps that > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just > that I > > > > > made > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain > in the > > > > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > > > > > machine's > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of > > > problem is > > > > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a > studio > > > > > with > > > > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The > > > station's > > > > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a > > > tone on > > > > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the > > > machine > > > > > > > and start > > > > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency > > > related > > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and > > > we a > > > > > > > result of > > > > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the > more I > > > > > may be > > > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin > there is a > > > > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when > machine is > > > > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > > > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1745 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:17 pm Subject: Re: 6k tone in playback ladewd Offline Send Email Dana, The extender board shipped with every machine. They're a bit tough to find and are absolutely necessary if you're going to attempt to fix the machine yourself. I used to have extra boards but they are long gone. Maybe someone here on the group knows where you can get one. I can't imagine what the cause of the problem would be. I'd be very interested to know what you come up with. Refresh my memory, you did try swapping out both CNL's or at least operated it with one in the slot at a time? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > Thanks Cary, > I am going to try swapping out the master board with one I know is > working. If that doesn't change anything, I'll dig out the scope. I > don't have an extender card though. Is that something specialized for > these machines? > > Thanks, > Dana > > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 3:23 PM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > Dana, > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had much time to visit lately. > > Do you have an extender card? That's the only comfortable way to > > test the 15V regulators on the MST. I also recommend using an > > oscilloscope to troubleshoot this. What you're looking for is an AC > > component on a DC line. Scopes make this very easy to see. Yes you > > want to measure 15V and -15V referenced to ground. To refresh my > > memory, you're hearing this oscillation in all modes? That would be > > input, playback and record? That is one problem I've never > > encountered on an APR. Op amps and regulators usually oscillate at > > much higher frequencies than 6kHz. I've seen RF or oscillations > > beat with bias and result in a tone when recording, but if its just > > there all the time, that's a tough one to try and troubleshoot via > > the list. Eddie's idea was a good one, but if the RMD isn't hot > > enough to fry eggs after an hour of use (and all discolored), I'd > > say that's not the problem. > > > > Cary > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Eddie, > > > That's pretty much room temp after being on for an hour (transport > > > stopped). APR 5000, yes. > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > specializedmastering.com > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, > > behind > > > > the take-up motor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not exactly > > sure > > > > > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it > > visible with > > > > > the top cover off? > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the schematic. The > > > > audio > > > > > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder points > > > > are on > > > > > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to > > while the > > > > > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to ground? Can > > > > safely > > > > > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the tone > > is not > > > > > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v regulators on > > > > the MST > > > > > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my new > > summer > > > > > > > > schedule > > > > > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods I've > > > > made were > > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the > > > > oscillation, (or > > > > > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and > > replaced > > > > > > them. On > > > > > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with > > > > mysteries. It > > > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the > > > > problem goes > > > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the problem > > > > > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it more > > > > > > pleasant to > > > > > > > > live > > > > > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio > > path. One > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter > > > > calibration > > > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in level > > > > by about > > > > > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different > > > > calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > > > > > referring to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted right > > > > in front > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor > > > > amplifiers. I > > > > > > > > have worked > > > > > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor > > amps that > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, just > > that I > > > > > > made > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain > > in the > > > > > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is on the > > > > > > machine's > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this kind of > > > > problem is > > > > > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it was a > > studio > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The > > > > station's > > > > > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and created a > > > > tone on > > > > > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation in the > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just disconnecting the > > > > machine > > > > > > > > and start > > > > > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high frequency > > > > related > > > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during recording and > > > > we a > > > > > > > > result of > > > > > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information the > > more I > > > > > > may be > > > > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin > > there is a > > > > > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when > > machine is > > > > > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > > > > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1746 From: Dana White Date: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:28 pm Subject: Re: Re: 6k tone in playback djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi Carey, I did run the machine with only an Audio Master board, and the tone was still present. With all of the cards removed the tone went away. When I get back there in a few weeks, I'll have a known good Audio Master board with me. If that doesnt solve it, I'll be looking for an extender card to do more testing. If it does, I'll be looking for a replacement Audio Master board. Anyone have these? Sincerely, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Jun 28, 2009, at 4:17 PM, ladewd wrote: > > > Dana, > > The extender board shipped with every machine. They're a bit tough > to find and are absolutely necessary if you're going to attempt to > fix the machine yourself. I used to have extra boards but they are > long gone. Maybe someone here on the group knows where you can get > one. I can't imagine what the cause of the problem would be. I'd be > very interested to know what you come up with. Refresh my memory, > you did try swapping out both CNL's or at least operated it with > one in the slot at a time? > > Cary > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > Thanks Cary, > > I am going to try swapping out the master board with one I know is > > working. If that doesn't change anything, I'll dig out the scope. I > > don't have an extender card though. Is that something specialized > for > > these machines? > > > > Thanks, > > Dana > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 3:23 PM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dana, > > > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had much time to visit lately. > > > Do you have an extender card? That's the only comfortable way to > > > test the 15V regulators on the MST. I also recommend using an > > > oscilloscope to troubleshoot this. What you're looking for is > an AC > > > component on a DC line. Scopes make this very easy to see. Yes you > > > want to measure 15V and -15V referenced to ground. To refresh my > > > memory, you're hearing this oscillation in all modes? That > would be > > > input, playback and record? That is one problem I've never > > > encountered on an APR. Op amps and regulators usually oscillate at > > > much higher frequencies than 6kHz. I've seen RF or oscillations > > > beat with bias and result in a tone when recording, but if its > just > > > there all the time, that's a tough one to try and troubleshoot via > > > the list. Eddie's idea was a good one, but if the RMD isn't hot > > > enough to fry eggs after an hour of use (and all discolored), I'd > > > say that's not the problem. > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Eddie, > > > > That's pretty much room temp after being on for an hour > (transport > > > > stopped). APR 5000, yes. > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:30 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > an APR-5000? If yes, the MDA is the big heatsink on the rear, > > > behind > > > > > the take-up motor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hadn't noticed any excessive heat in there. I'm not > exactly > > > sure > > > > > > where the reel motor amplifier sink is though... Is it > > > visible with > > > > > > the top cover off? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:40 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how hot is the reel motor amplifier heat sink getting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Carey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've found IC 20 & 21 on the board and on the > schematic. The > > > > > audio > > > > > > > > master card is in the bottom position and the solder > points > > > > > are on > > > > > > > > the bottom of the card, making it difficult to get to > > > while the > > > > > > > > machine is running. Am I looking for 15 volts to > ground? Can > > > > > safely > > > > > > > > move it to another slot for testing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I'm noticing that when the machine is cold the > tone > > > is not > > > > > > > > present. As it starts to warm it ramps up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ideas so far! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:17 AM, ladewd wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought... Check to see if the +/-15v > regulators on > > > > > the MST > > > > > > > > > board are oscillating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer for you at the moment - my > new > > > summer > > > > > > > > > schedule > > > > > > > > > > has me working evenings. I can say that the mods > I've > > > > > made were > > > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > > > added or larger caps in the feedback loop ON THE > PCB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > I'm back to looking at this APR 5003 with the > > > > > oscillation, (or > > > > > > > > > > > whatever may be causing the 5k tone +harmonics). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I pulled and cleaned all of the audio boards and > > > replaced > > > > > > > them. On > > > > > > > > > > > another machine I found this to be helpful with > > > > > mysteries. It > > > > > > > > > didn't > > > > > > > > > > > help this situation. > > > > > > > > > > > With all of the audio boards removed though, the > > > > > problem goes > > > > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > With any one of the audio boards installed the > problem > > > > > > > returns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disconnecting the internal amp/speaker made it > more > > > > > > > pleasant to > > > > > > > > > live > > > > > > > > > > > with, but the oscillation is still in the audio > > > path. One > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > observation worth mentioning is, that when I enter > > > > > calibration > > > > > > > > > mode > > > > > > > > > > > and select "Input Mon Level", the tone jumps in > level > > > > > by about > > > > > > > > > 25 dB. > > > > > > > > > > > It drops back down when entering a different > > > > > calibration mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eddie, the HF gain in the feedback loop... are you > > > > > > > referring to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > RV1 & 2 pots on the RTS board? They are mounted > right > > > > > in front > > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > > reel spindles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Any more thoughts out there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana J. White > > > > > > > > > > > specializedmastering.com > > > > > > > > > > > (508) 872-9478 Boston > > > > > > > > > > > (503) 866-8383 Portland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2009, at 7:46 AM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You might also want to check the reel motor > > > > > amplifiers. I > > > > > > > > > have worked > > > > > > > > > > > > on several machines with functional reel motor > > > amps that > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > oscillating - I have no idea what frequency, > just > > > that I > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > problem go away by reducing high frequency gain > > > in the > > > > > > > > > feedback loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The clue is excessive heat (the amplifier is > on the > > > > > > > machine's > > > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > > > > > the big black heatsink). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eddie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I'd love to help you out, but this > kind of > > > > > problem is > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last time I encountered something like it > was a > > > studio > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > an APR24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > and was located very near a radio station. The > > > > > station's > > > > > > > > > frequency > > > > > > > > > > > > > beat with the APR's bias frequency and > created a > > > > > tone on > > > > > > > > > the tape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than an obvious source of oscillation > in the > > > > > > > machine, > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > > > > tough one. I would start by just > disconnecting the > > > > > machine > > > > > > > > > and start > > > > > > > > > > > > > making output measurements. Most high > frequency > > > > > related > > > > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > > > seen with 1/2" heads resulted during > recording and > > > > > we a > > > > > > > > > result of > > > > > > > > > > > > > distorted bias. Anyway the more information > the > > > more I > > > > > > > may be > > > > > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just set down to run some 1/2" and fin > > > there is a > > > > > > > > > present 6k > > > > > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tone in the audio playback (apparent when > > > machine is > > > > > > > > > stopped, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when running). It's in the noise floor, but > > > > > > > noticeable. Any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestions on what might be going on? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1747 From: "misterandmissusweeks" Date: Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:14 pm Subject: No audio off tape or in INPUT. misterandmis... Offline Send Email Hi All, I tried to search for a related topic but could not find anything. I have a SONY APR 5001 1/4" deck that worked fine until the last time I powered it up. Transport and all indicators/functions work, but no audio passes through it on input or off tape when played. My tech, Bill Coe, can't find anything wrong with the audio supply, and as these machines are extremely complex he's at a loss as to where the problem would be. If anybody here knows where a problem that affects BOTH audio channels could be coming from it would be a great help. Otherwise its looking like I've got a new coffee table. Thanks! Greg Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1748 From: G Louie Date: Tue Jul 7, 2009 5:34 pm Subject: lifters gary@... Send Email Hi all, I've been lurking from the start, but now have a question. My 5002 early production has steel lifters, and I thought it was about time to rotate them, and the other steel guides on the headblock. The lifters appear to be Loctited in, the circlips merely setting the depth. Any tips on doing the lifter job? Normally, I think I would have to remove the whole assembly, and maybe heat the lifter rods a little to breakdown the Loctite - or just Vise-grip it on the unused tip? Reply | Messages in this Topic (37 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1749 From: "hifi_supply" Date: Wed Jul 8, 2009 9:52 am Subject: 2" Alignment Tape hifi_supply Offline Send Email Can anyone help with an alignment tape for my APR24? Either a loan, or some tones recorded on a well aligned machine would do it. Happy to pay for the tape... It's a 16 track machine If no, any idea of sources? Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1750 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:23 am Subject: Re: 2" Alignment Tape richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:52 AM 2009-07-08, hifi_supply wrote: >Can anyone help with an alignment tape for my APR24? Either a loan, >or some tones recorded on a well aligned machine would do it. Happy >to pay for the tape... > >It's a 16 track machine > >If no, any idea of sources? > There is one and only one trusted source for this stuff today and we need to patronize that source if we want that source to be around in the future. http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/ There, you can get a NEW, freshly minted, in-spec calibration tape so you're as sure as you can be that the recordings you're making will play back on a properly adjusted machine OR that you're as close as you can be to the standard in playing back already recorded tapes. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1751 From: gael guilarte Date: Wed Jul 8, 2009 8:14 pm Subject: Re: 2" Alignment Tape gaelfrenchy Offline Send Email you need to buy an alignement tape from mrl all specification and reference on their web site --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: Re: [sony_apr] 2" Alignment Tape To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 10:23 AM At 09:52 AM 2009-07-08, hifi_supply wrote: >Can anyone help with an alignment tape for my APR24? Either a loan, >or some tones recorded on a well aligned machine would do it. Happy >to pay for the tape... > >It's a 16 track machine > >If no, any idea of sources? > There is one and only one trusted source for this stuff today and we need to patronize that source if we want that source to be around in the future. http://home. comcast.net/ ~mrltapes/ There, you can get a NEW, freshly minted, in-spec calibration tape so you're as sure as you can be that the recordings you're making will play back on a properly adjusted machine OR that you're as close as you can be to the standard in playing back already recorded tapes. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1752 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:37 pm Subject: APR-5000 Head connector problem identified richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, if you're having intermittent connections between your APR-5000 head assembly and your machine, consider this possible cause. I don't know if this was caused by aftermarket work or if it perhaps represents a manufacturing error. http://richardhess.com/notes/2009/07/14/sony-apr-5000-head-assembly-problem/ Enjoy! Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1753 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:16 pm Subject: Re: APR-5000 Head connector problem identified ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Richard, We found this out shortly after manufacturing began. We did the same thing you are doing, we installed washers to ensure proper contact. You may have acquired a machine that was pre-washer or just one that was overlooked. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, if you're having intermittent connections between your APR-5000 > head assembly and your machine, consider this possible cause. I don't > know if this was caused by aftermarket work or if it perhaps > represents a manufacturing error. > > http://richardhess.com/notes/2009/07/14/sony-apr-5000-head-assembly-problem/ > > Enjoy! > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1754 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:06 pm Subject: The new Studer mail list... richardlhess Offline Send Email I'm forwarding this message for Graham Newton who is helping fill a void in the absence of the Studer List at Recordist.com. ============================================================== Hello All... The Studer list at Recordist.com appears to be still non-functional:- For those of you who are interested in or who have Studer tape machines, there is a Yahoo mail list with over 150 members that you can subscribe to:- on the web at... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Studer/ or by email at... STUDER-subscribe@yahoogroups.com The Studer list owner is me, Graham Newton. Please also pass the word to any interested friends and let them know that they would be welcome. Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1755 From: Stuart Blacklock Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:11 pm Subject: Re: The new Studer mail list... vintage_reco... Offline Send Email If it helps, I could add a Studer list page to my forum site http://www.vintagerecorders.yuku.com/ If anyone is interested. --- On Fri, 21/8/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: [sony_apr] The new Studer mail list... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 21 August, 2009, 5:06 PM I'm forwarding this message for Graham Newton who is helping fill a void in the absence of the Studer List at Recordist.com. ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===== Hello All... The Studer list at Recordist.com appears to be still non-functional: - For those of you who are interested in or who have Studer tape machines, there is a Yahoo mail list with over 150 members that you can subscribe to:- on the web at... http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Studer/ or by email at... STUDER-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com The Studer list owner is me, Graham Newton. Please also pass the word to any interested friends and let them know that they would be welcome. Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1756 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:46 pm Subject: Re: The new Studer mail list... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Stuart, Thanks, that is very generous of you, but I really like the idea of ONE list for each brand. From a different discipline: I have been running a Judy Collins fan mailing list since probably 1998 first on eGroups and then Yahoo Groups when they absorbed eGroups. In maybe 2002, someone became very disenchanted with the lack of traffic on my list so he formed his own for Judy and other musicians. Now, all I get on his list is spam because he's not managing it well and my list is still going with a core of dedicated fans--I even have someone else administering it. So, I really think we should focus all of the effort into Graham Newton's list -- he's already got almost as many members there as we have here on this list named for Sony, but also dealing with MCI machines. Cheers, Richard At 12:11 PM 2009-08-21, you wrote: >If it helps, I could add a Studer list page to my forum site >http://www.vintagerecorders.yuku.com/ > >If anyone is interested. > > >--- On Fri, 21/8/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > >From: Richard L. Hess >Subject: [sony_apr] The new Studer mail list... >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Date: Friday, 21 August, 2009, 5:06 PM > > > > > > >I'm forwarding this message for Graham Newton who is helping fill a >void in the absence of the Studer List at Recordist.com. > >============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===== > >Hello All... > >The Studer list at Recordist.com appears to be still non-functional: - > >For those of you who are interested in or who have Studer tape >machines, there is a Yahoo mail list with over 150 members that you >can subscribe to:- > >on the web at... > >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Studer/ > >or by email at... > >STUDER-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com > >The Studer list owner is me, Graham Newton. > >Please also pass the word to any interested friends and let them know >that they would be welcome. > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1757 From: "studerfan" Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:36 pm Subject: Re: The new Studer mail list... studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Richard: I signed up the other day to the Gramham Newton's Studer List. Let's hope the community and the administrator would be kind to us - DIYer's... It was difficult for me personally to contribute to the old Studer List but now I have gained more knowledge to help others. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Stuart, > > Thanks, that is very generous of you, but I really like the idea of > ONE list for each brand. > > From a different discipline: I have been running a Judy Collins fan > mailing list since probably 1998 first on eGroups and then Yahoo > Groups when they absorbed eGroups. > > In maybe 2002, someone became very disenchanted with the lack of > traffic on my list so he formed his own for Judy and other musicians. > Now, all I get on his list is spam because he's not managing it well > and my list is still going with a core of dedicated fans--I even have > someone else administering it. > > So, I really think we should focus all of the effort into Graham > Newton's list -- he's already got almost as many members there as we > have here on this list named for Sony, but also dealing with MCI machines. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 12:11 PM 2009-08-21, you wrote: > >If it helps, I could add a Studer list page to my forum site > >http://www.vintagerecorders.yuku.com/ > > > >If anyone is interested. > > > > > >--- On Fri, 21/8/09, Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > > > >From: Richard L. Hess > >Subject: [sony_apr] The new Studer mail list... > >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > >Date: Friday, 21 August, 2009, 5:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm forwarding this message for Graham Newton who is helping fill a > >void in the absence of the Studer List at Recordist.com. > > > >============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===== > > > >Hello All... > > > >The Studer list at Recordist.com appears to be still non-functional: - > > > >For those of you who are interested in or who have Studer tape > >machines, there is a Yahoo mail list with over 150 members that you > >can subscribe to:- > > > >on the web at... > > > >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Studer/ > > > >or by email at... > > > >STUDER-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com > > > >The Studer list owner is me, Graham Newton. > > > >Please also pass the word to any interested friends and let them know > >that they would be welcome. > > > >Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm > >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1758 From: "studerfan" Date: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:05 pm Subject: APR 50003 fan noise solved studerfan Offline Send Email Hi all: In an effort to overcome the sudden death syndrom of one of my beloved APR5003s, I had made modifications to the fans in the Sony with very good results. The problem started with a simle problem of buring out current limit resistors on the display panel for the STOP pushbutton LED lamps one day, I ended up repairing and building the power supply. The problem I posted few months back required replacement of the 10,000uf power filter cap and power transistor in the regulator for 24VDC. It is well now. As I was wrestling with the thight power supply housing, I reviewed previous postings on fan replacement and the limits of 60mm fan when it comes to moving enough air and yet cool the PS. I had corresponded with one of the forum members and exchange few ideal. I then tried an exact replacement 60mm fan from Silnex designed for quiet operation for the PC gamers. The fan noise I had measured from an better than original Panaflex (I believe for the later APRs) fan was greater than 70dB while standing infront of the deck and point the sound pressure meter at the power supply intake next to the AC power swith before the mod. No wonder it had always bothered me when I try to listen to music at night with eveything else being silent... The Silenx replacement fan was for 12VDC so with tapping into the 15VDC supply with voltage drop resistor got it running well but the majority of noise was still there at around 60dB. Fortunately, one of my friends had also acquired APR machines and had access to sheet metal shop overseas. He had made two adapters so that I can use 80mm fan and run it at reduced voltage. The adapter worked out good and I ran the 80mm fan from 5VDC supply for the VU meter lamps away from any important supply voltages. The only negative thing is that the fan extrude out of the bottom cover. I am having to cut out a new hole for the 80mm fan in the sheet metal cover. Since I am not anal about keeping the deck in its factory fresh cosmetic conditions and don't plan to show off its bottom to anyone - (any time soon), I got over it about the idea of cutting the hole (still to be done). To make the long story short, I felt the fan noise was the only detractor for APR5003s to be truly an audiophile machine like the Studers with no fans. Now, I have the Sony machine whispering while playing tapes. My Radio Shack sound pressure meter only goes down to 50dB and the modified Sony's fan noise doesn't register on the sound meter at the same position where I measred more than 70dB before the mod. My guess is that it is at about 40dB that is near silent for me where I barely hear the fan noise from my listening position. I hear more tape moving across the tape path than the fan at last. Ki Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1759 From: "studerfan" Date: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:55 am Subject: Firmware upgrade and CPU board versions studerfan Offline Send Email Hi All: Tried to upgrade APR-5003 with following problems. SN:20121 has been operating with P4.01.01.1 1987 for CPU and V2.0 for LNT SN:20871 has been working well with P3.01.01.0 CPU and same V2.0 for LNT board. When I replaced the IC13 and IC14 with P4.02.01.5 and P4.10.10.13 LNT on both machines; The SN20121 would not even display the software version (but show all 0's) and ALN panel and the meter bridge had no LEDs lit with no responses. I removed the P4.02.01.5 chips and reinserted the original P4.01.01.1 version but left the P4.10.10.13 LNT in, everthing worked again. The SN20871 would display the new softwre version P4.02.01.5 but ALN panel and meter bridge had no LEDs lit and weren't responding. I replaced the software version with P4.01.01.1 from other Sony while leaving the latest LNT chip in, everything worked again. Thus I did upgrade the SN20871 with newr firmware version and LNT software but couldn't upgrade with the latest P4,02.01.5 chips on both machines. I searched manual and suppliment docuement for any jumper changes or compatibility information between CPU and firmware versionsbut couldn't find it. If you have any ideas on how I can make the newer software to work on my machines, please let me know. Thanks, Ki Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1760 From: "ladewd" Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 2:33 pm Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade and CPU board versions ladewd Offline Send Email If I remember correctly (and its getting harder as time goes on), the proms you're trying to install into your 5003 are for a 5003V. The CPU was changed for the 5003V which included a small eprom (or PAL). The newer versions will not work in the 5003. I think the latest version for a 5003 was P4.01.01.2. There was a rather messy modification to get the software to work with the newer EPROMs, but I no longer have that documentation. It involved cutting traces and jumpering as well as removing an IC and replacing it with a custom PAL which was only available as an upgrade kit. It gave the 5003 all the features of the 5003V minus the VITC functions. Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "studerfan" wrote: > > Hi All: > > Tried to upgrade APR-5003 with following problems. > > SN:20121 has been operating with P4.01.01.1 1987 for CPU and V2.0 for LNT > > SN:20871 has been working well with P3.01.01.0 CPU and same V2.0 for LNT board. > > When I replaced the IC13 and IC14 with P4.02.01.5 and P4.10.10.13 LNT on both machines; > > The SN20121 would not even display the software version (but show all 0's) and ALN panel and the meter bridge had no LEDs lit with no responses. I removed the P4.02.01.5 chips and reinserted the original P4.01.01.1 version but left the P4.10.10.13 LNT in, everthing worked again. > > The SN20871 would display the new softwre version P4.02.01.5 but ALN panel and meter bridge had no LEDs lit and weren't responding. I replaced the software version with P4.01.01.1 from other Sony while leaving the latest LNT chip in, everything worked again. > > Thus I did upgrade the SN20871 with newr firmware version and LNT software but couldn't upgrade with the latest P4,02.01.5 chips on both machines. > > I searched manual and suppliment docuement for any jumper changes or compatibility information between CPU and firmware versionsbut couldn't find it. > > If you have any ideas on how I can make the newer software to work on my machines, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Ki > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1765 From: "studerfan" Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 10:09 pm Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade and CPU board versions studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Cary: Thanks for your response. It makes sense that the newer P4.02.01.5 is for the special 5003s with the upgrade kit. My friend's 5003 CPU had the PAL chip not found in both of my plain 5003s. However, his LNT Eprom with X.13 that matched with P4.02.01.5 software works fine on both of my machines with older CPU software version. Are there any reasons why I shouldn't keep them? May be there are other functions beyond normal tape record/play that would not be compatible.. The old LNT software was marked V2 with CPU firmware version P4.01.01.1. I will see about locating the P4.01.01.2 firmware set and call it done! Thanks, Ki > If I remember correctly (and its getting harder as time goes on), the proms you're trying to install into your 5003 are for a 5003V. The CPU was changed for the 5003V which included a small eprom (or PAL). The newer versions will not work in the 5003. I think the latest version for a 5003 was P4.01.01.2. > > There was a rather messy modification to get the software to work with the newer EPROMs, but I no longer have that documentation. It involved cutting traces and jumpering as well as removing an IC and replacing it with a custom PAL which was only available as an upgrade kit. It gave the 5003 all the features of the 5003V minus the VITC functions. > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1766 From: "ladewd" Date: Tue Sep 8, 2009 10:46 pm Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade and CPU board versions ladewd Offline Send Email I never understood why they deemed the 5003S LNT firmware with a 2.0 version. The 5003V used a 1. something. Yes you refreshed my memory and there was an update to the original 5003 to make it an "S". The LNT software talks with the CPU on startup so if its working with 2.0 go for it. Somewhere out there there is a technical bulletin that describes how to update the CPU, but I seemed to have lost it in my move to California. I only have a very limited amount of Bulletins for the APR series now. For some strange reason I kept all the MCI stuff. Go figure. I refuse to work on MCI's because I tend to become married to the machine after I service them. If you use any serial 9 pin stuff, the LNT would be involved with that. If you don't, then there's no reason to use the upgraded LNT software. I have my doubts that any of the enhanced serial functions (which I can't remember what they were) would work without the proper CPU proms and mods. I may have a modified CPU for a 5003S lying around with the PAL installed. My garage is a mess, so it may take me a while to find. If you think it would be useful to you, I can part with it since I have no use for it. I may have pulled some parts from it. Let me check and I'll get back to you in a few days. Are you located in the US? Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "studerfan" wrote: > > Hi Cary: > > Thanks for your response. > > It makes sense that the newer P4.02.01.5 is for the special 5003s with the upgrade kit. My friend's 5003 CPU had the PAL chip not found in both of my plain 5003s. > > However, his LNT Eprom with X.13 that matched with P4.02.01.5 software works fine on both of my machines with older CPU software version. Are there any reasons why I shouldn't keep them? May be there are other functions beyond normal tape record/play that would not be compatible.. > The old LNT software was marked V2 with CPU firmware version P4.01.01.1. > > I will see about locating the P4.01.01.2 firmware set and call it done! > > Thanks, > Ki > > If I remember correctly (and its getting harder as time goes on), the proms you're trying to install into your 5003 are for a 5003V. The CPU was changed for the 5003V which included a small eprom (or PAL). The newer versions will not work in the 5003. I think the latest version for a 5003 was P4.01.01.2. > > > > There was a rather messy modification to get the software to work with the newer EPROMs, but I no longer have that documentation. It involved cutting traces and jumpering as well as removing an IC and replacing it with a custom PAL which was only available as an upgrade kit. It gave the 5003 all the features of the 5003V minus the VITC functions. > > > > Cary > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1767 From: "studerfan" Date: Wed Sep 9, 2009 2:20 am Subject: Re: Firmware upgrade and CPU board versions studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Cary: It seems I better go back to the matching LNT software to the CPU version. I have acquire few of the Sony bulletins recently. I'll see about scanning them and sending the set to Richard for archive and posting on the File section of this group. If you don't have means to scan the document, I can help and return the originals back to you. Maybe we can rebuild the bulletin collection. Yes, I am located in Seattle Washington and am very interesting in getting your CPU board with the PAL chip so that I can use the P4.02.01.5 firmware with least on one of my 5003s. Let me know when you find the board. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ladewd" wrote: > > I never understood why they deemed the 5003S LNT firmware with a 2.0 version. The 5003V used a 1. something. Yes you refreshed my memory and there was an update to the original 5003 to make it an "S". The LNT software talks with the CPU on startup so if its working with 2.0 go for it. Somewhere out there there is a technical bulletin that describes how to update the CPU, but I seemed to have lost it in my move to California. > > I only have a very limited amount of Bulletins for the APR series now. For some strange reason I kept all the MCI stuff. Go figure. I refuse to work on MCI's because I tend to become married to the machine after I service them. If you use any serial 9 pin stuff, the LNT would be involved with that. If you don't, then there's no reason to use the upgraded LNT software. I have my doubts that any of the enhanced serial functions (which I can't remember what they were) would work without the proper CPU proms and mods. > I may have a modified CPU for a 5003S lying around with the PAL installed. My garage is a mess, so it may take me a while to find. If you think it would be useful to you, I can part with it since I have no use for it. I may have pulled some parts from it. Let me check and I'll get back to you in a few days. Are you located in the US? > > Cary Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1768 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:40 pm Subject: APR5000 stand wanted vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello, I have a friend who is trying to get a stand for his APR-5000, can anyone help with this? He is looking for the complete stand and the top stand caps. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1769 From: Jeff Brown Date: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:13 pm Subject: JH Series Molex replacement parts? jeffbro27707 Offline Send Email Has anyone grappled with this in the last few years and generated parts lists? I'm referring not to the audio cards, but to the control boards right beneath the deck plate. The Molex parts universe is a mindbending thicket of minute variations on dozens of themes, and their online parametric search tool is often less than helpful. Also, it seems that some of the parts may be non-Molex parts from unidentified manufacturers. Aargh! Any help would be fantastic Jeff Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1770 From: eddie ciletti Date: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:02 pm Subject: Re: JH Series Molex replacement parts? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Jeff I have no recent experience, but when possible, I would recommend researching bif-urcated or tri-furcated female connectors and gold male pins if still available. Again, I have no recent experience. I am sure you already know that the red IC sockets have got to go. Back when I had more 'frequency,' I would grab each molex and gently twist to confirm a good solder connection. When the female plastic is discolored, chances of cold or oxidized joints / contacts is increased. eddie > > > Has anyone grappled with this in the last few years and generated > parts lists? I'm referring not to the audio cards, but to the > control boards right beneath the deck plate. The Molex parts > universe is a mindbending thicket of minute variations on dozens of > themes, and their online parametric search tool is often less than > helpful. Also, it seems that some of the parts may be non-Molex > parts from unidentified manufacturers. Aargh! > > Any help would be fantastic > > Jeff > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1771 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:30 am Subject: APR5003 stand wanted vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello All, a little while ago I am still trying to get hold of a stand for my friends Sony APR-5003, he is also looking for a metal plate head cover and two VU bulbs, can anyone help? He lives in Birmingham and is happy to travel to collect the stand and such, any help would be greatly appreciated. You may be wondering why he hasn't joined yet, my friend does not have the internet so I am trying to help him out. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1772 From: "studerfan" Date: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:17 pm Subject: Re: APR5003 stand wanted studerfan Offline Send Email Hi Stuart: Sorry can't help you with the metal plate but if you would send me an email with your address, I will send you the two VU lamps. Ki in Seattle --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Blacklock" wrote: > > Hello All, a little while ago I am still trying to get hold of a stand for > my friends Sony APR-5003, he is also looking for a metal plate head cover > and two VU bulbs, can anyone help? He lives in Birmingham and is happy to > travel to collect the stand and such, any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > You may be wondering why he hasn't joined yet, my friend does not have the > internet so I am trying to help him out. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (8 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1773 From: "allegrosound" Date: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:28 pm Subject: Does anyone have a COVER-PLATE for APR headblock they would like to sell ? allegrosound Offline Send Email If you have a COVER-PLATE for APR headblock, please contact Rick@... - thank you. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1774 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:26 am Subject: RE: Does anyone have a COVER-PLATE for APR headblock they would like to sell ? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email We do now, we brought a complete machine to get the head cover and stand though are missing the end stops of the stand now, it seems these head covers are hard to find. Thank you. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allegrosound Sent: 27 September 2009 21:28 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Does anyone have a COVER-PLATE for APR headblock they would like to sell ? If you have a COVER-PLATE for APR headblock, please contact Rick@... - thank you. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2398 - Release Date: 09/27/09 05:51:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1775 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Sony K8112 or PCM-3402 spares wanted vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello All, I am looking for some spare parts, my machine I have just brought is in a state and I am looking for; Edit 2 card Top head cover panel for either machine (PCM-3402 being best) The internal card cover plate I am hoping Richard may be able to help? Thank you all for looking. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1776 From: "Jason" Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 8:31 pm Subject: JH110B noisey capstan offthecuffso... Offline Send Email I got an increasingly noisey capstan on my 2 track JH110B. Its not the pinch roller bearing. Its the capstan. Any remedies for this. Can I lub it. I dont see anything in the manual. Thanks Jason Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1777 From: "amorrisfullsail" Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:56 am Subject: Re: JH110B noisey capstan amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email bad bearing. have it rebuilt by precision motorworks or athan. common issue that will get inoto sync audio might not be in repro. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > I got an increasingly noisey capstan on my 2 track JH110B. Its not the pinch roller bearing. Its the capstan. Any remedies for this. Can I lub it. I dont see anything in the manual. > Thanks > Jason > Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1778 From: "Adrian" Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:44 pm Subject: acceptable azimuth phase error... nnifnairda Offline Send Email Hi I've recently picked up an APR 5003 and have been running through the Repro calibration with my 15ips NAB MRL tape. Checking the azimuth with my scope gives me solid bottom left to upper right lines up to around 10K but then I get a wavering to slightly ovular trace up to 20K - Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it normal to have some wavering? I've checked and set tape tension and this is spot on. There are small wear flats on the sync and repro heads but not large, maybe 3mm / 3.5mm across. Tape travel through the guides looks fine and I don't see any tape walking up and down the heads. I don't have the zenith block mentioned in the manual for checking zenith. Thanks adrian Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1779 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:36 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... richardlhess Offline Send Email My Studer A80s don't hold a straight line at 20 kHz. I doubt the tape is recorded with a straight line at 20 kHz. Jay McKnight has written about azimuth tolerance on his website. I think if you find his papers there your questions about what is reasonable will be answered. I think the A80 does better at holding azimuth than the APR, but the APR is very good. Cheers, Richard At 06:44 PM 2009-10-12, you wrote: >Hi > >I've recently picked up an APR 5003 and have been running through >the Repro calibration with my 15ips NAB MRL tape. Checking the >azimuth with my scope gives me solid bottom left to upper right >lines up to around 10K but then I get a wavering to slightly ovular >trace up to 20K - > >Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it >normal to have some wavering? > >I've checked and set tape tension and this is spot on. >There are small wear flats on the sync and repro heads but not >large, maybe 3mm / 3.5mm across. >Tape travel through the guides looks fine and I don't see any tape >walking up and down the heads. >I don't have the zenith block mentioned in the manual for checking zenith. > >Thanks > >adrian > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1780 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:31 am Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Adrian I think this is normal - it's analog after all - tho I guess, if you shot video and posted it might yield some insights. I've not ever done a tension alignment on the one I have, but you might see what happens (not on a test tape) when you pull the pinch roller back during play, and see if the tape speeds up or down. If it speeds up, the take-up is too high. It should either run near to speed or gradually slow down. This assumes you grab the pinch by the cap and not the rubber (Or pull with a string). eddie > > > Hi > > I've recently picked up an APR 5003 and have been running through the > Repro calibration with my 15ips NAB MRL tape. Checking the azimuth > with my scope gives me solid bottom left to upper right lines up to > around 10K but then I get a wavering to slightly ovular trace up to 20K - > > Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it > normal to have some wavering? > > I've checked and set tape tension and this is spot on. > There are small wear flats on the sync and repro heads but not large, > maybe 3mm / 3.5mm across. > Tape travel through the guides looks fine and I don't see any tape > walking up and down the heads. > I don't have the zenith block mentioned in the manual for checking zenith. > > Thanks > > adrian > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1781 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:11 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... engjch13 Offline Send Email I've think I've done my fair share of azimuth adjustments, and I've never really seen ANY machine that could hold a dead flat x/y even on the 8Khz coarse azimuth tones, there's always SOME wavering. That includes Studer, Revox, Otari, MCI, Scully, and Ampex ATRs (and probably others I'd prefer to forget!), and including many head assemblies fresh from JRF. If your machine is truly holding a perfect diagonal trace at 10K, I'd call that pretty good! Jeff Chestek > > > Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it > > normal to have some wavering? > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1782 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:34 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I'd say, if it's holding a perfect trace above 10K, check your test wiring. I've never seen any thing flat like you describe. In my life with tape decks, there has always been a little wavering, ever so small, just a tiny bit. But, never the less, not perfect. Best Regards pat ps and that goes for the Evil Studers too. (grin) At 03:11 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: > > >I've think I've done my fair share of azimuth adjustments, and I've >never really seen ANY machine that could hold a dead flat x/y even on >the 8Khz coarse azimuth tones, there's always SOME wavering. That >includes Studer, Revox, Otari, MCI, Scully, and Ampex ATRs (and probably >others I'd prefer to forget!), and including many head assemblies fresh >from JRF. > >If your machine is truly holding a perfect diagonal trace at 10K, I'd >call that pretty good! > >Jeff Chestek > > > > > > Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it > > > normal to have some wavering? > > > > > > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1783 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:47 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Jeff (et al) I did this in class the other day, showing students the typical amount of wavering. eddie Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1784 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:02 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... engjch13 Offline Send Email What machine were you using? How'd it look? Jeff eddie ciletti wrote: > > > Jeff (et al) > > I did this in class the other day, showing students the typical amount > of wavering. > > eddie Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1785 From: eddie ciletti Date: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:39 pm Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... eddieaudio Offline Send Email Jeff An Otari MX-10 1/2-inch 4 track. It looks like a tape machine, seen better, seen worse. As far as all this goes, if you've seen enough, you know what's normal. How are ya, Jeff? > > > What machine were you using? How'd it look? > Jeff > > eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > Jeff (et al) > > > > I did this in class the other day, showing students the typical amount > > of wavering. > > > > eddie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1786 From: "blijo88" Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:55 pm Subject: MCI JH110 Remote Auto Locator II for JH110c? blijo88 Offline Send Email Hi, Will the older Locator Type II work with my JH110c? I believe it was actually designed to be used with an older version, the JH110b or a. Thanks to all you knowledgeable people for contributing to this group! EJ Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1787 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:21 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH110 Remote Auto Locator II for JH110c? appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi EJ, Are you referring to the Auto Locator module of stacked 4x4" molexed cards that sit in the middle of the transport or the big auto locator? It's been so long, I can't remember. BTW: I've got some Otari decks for sale if you know anyone in the market. Goto: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1788 From: "blijo88" Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:44 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH110 Remote Auto Locator II for JH110c? blijo88 Offline Send Email Hi Pat, Thanks for your reply. I'm referring to the remote version. The "stacked 4x4" unfortunately did not fit in my recorder... EJ --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Pat Appleson wrote: > > Hi EJ, > > Are you referring to the Auto Locator module of stacked 4x4" molexed > cards that sit in the middle of the transport or the big > auto locator? It's been so long, I can't remember. > > BTW: I've got some Otari decks for sale if you know anyone in the > market. Goto: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm > > Best Regards > Pat > > > > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1789 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:11 pm Subject: Re: Re: MCI JH110 Remote Auto Locator II for JH110c? appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi EJ, Sorry, I don't have anything close. I gave away a complete remote unit about ten years ago along with a bunch of "analog Turkey Boards" for the 2-4-8 trk 110's. Good luck. Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1790 From: "Adrian" Date: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:04 am Subject: Re: acceptable azimuth phase error... nnifnairda Offline Send Email Thanks eddie - tension seems fine - tape gradually slows down when pinch rolller is moved away slightly.. The tape does seem noisy passing through the transport, although it's not obviously creasing or curling on the guides - The scrape flutter idler between the sync and repro heads has some vertical play and is noisy when you spin it - I'll try to post some video soon - I did do the same check on my Tascam BR20 which while not stable either appears slightly better than the APR which suprised me.. adrian --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, eddie ciletti wrote: > > Adrian > > I think this is normal - it's analog after all - tho I guess, if you > shot video and posted it might yield some insights. I've not ever done > a tension alignment on the one I have, but you might see what happens > (not on a test tape) when you pull the pinch roller back during play, > and see if the tape speeds up or down. If it speeds up, the take-up is > too high. It should either run near to speed or gradually slow down. > This assumes you grab the pinch by the cap and not the rubber (Or pull > with a string). > > eddie > > > > > > > Hi > > > > I've recently picked up an APR 5003 and have been running through the > > Repro calibration with my 15ips NAB MRL tape. Checking the azimuth > > with my scope gives me solid bottom left to upper right lines up to > > around 10K but then I get a wavering to slightly ovular trace up to 20K - > > > > Should the APR be able to produce a solid XY plot above 10K or is it > > normal to have some wavering? > > > > I've checked and set tape tension and this is spot on. > > There are small wear flats on the sync and repro heads but not large, > > maybe 3mm / 3.5mm across. > > Tape travel through the guides looks fine and I don't see any tape > > walking up and down the heads. > > I don't have the zenith block mentioned in the manual for checking zenith. > > > > Thanks > > > > adrian > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1791 From: "Dave" Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:32 am Subject: user manual? dlabrecque69 Offline Send Email I can't imagine I'm the first to ask this, but a search brought up nothing. Does anyone know of a web location from which to download the APR-5000 user manual? I just gained access to one that hasn't been used in years (at a video production house), and I need to do some transfers. I want to read up on this baby. Thanks, Dave "It's A Dry Heat" Labrecque Tucson, Arizona Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1792 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:22 pm Subject: Re: user manual? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Dave, The manual is Sony's intellectual property, but they don't sell copies any more as far as I know. However, I do not want them yelling at me for making it available, so it's hidden from Google -- in fact, the entire www.richardhess.net site says "go away" to all search engine spiders. So, please keep it that way by not posting it in a public blog or forum (this forum is NOT indexed). http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ Thanks! Richard At 11:32 AM 2009-11-11, you wrote: >I can't imagine I'm the first to ask this, but a search brought up >nothing. Does anyone know of a web location from which to download >the APR-5000 user manual? > >I just gained access to one that hasn't been used in years (at a >video production house), and I need to do some transfers. I want to >read up on this baby. > >Thanks, > >Dave "It's A Dry Heat" Labrecque >Tucson, Arizona > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1793 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:13 pm Subject: Fwd: 3M 32-track Digital Recorder richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, All, Sorry for the crossposting, but this is a needle in a haystack. I just received the following email. Does anyone know of a working 32 Track 3M digital machine for playback? A couple of you have been bcc'd on this in case you're wondering where it's coming from. Please contact the person listed below and please copy me on the email so I can add it to my links page. Apparently, masters had been stored in a record company's vaults and an artist bought them back and now is trying to recover them. >Envelope-to: richard@... >From: PaulTarnopol@... >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:57:48 EST > >Great talking to you Richard and thanks again. Please help us >locate a studio that has a 3M 32-track digital recorder so that we >can transfer some old 3M 32-track tapes to pro-tools. Thanks! Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1794 From: "bobbyshows@..." Date: Tue Dec 1, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Apr 5000 bobbyshows... Offline Send Email First time posting, new owner of APR 5000. Brought it home, tried to play prerecorded tape, hear all tracks(one backwards) what's wrong? or is this what To expect, maybe it will only play what it records? Please help Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1795 From: Dana White Date: Tue Dec 1, 2009 8:36 pm Subject: Re: Apr 5000 djwaudio Offline Send Email Welcome aboard! You may have a 1/4 track tape (two directional recording) and a 1/2 track machine. Sincerely, Dana Dana J. White specializedmastering.com (508) 872-9478 Boston (503) 866-8383 Portland  On Dec 1, 2009, at 5:22 PM, bobbyshows@... wrote: > First time posting, new owner of APR 5000. > > Brought it home, tried to play prerecorded tape, hear all tracks > (one backwards) what's wrong? or is this what To expect, maybe it > will only play what it records? > > Please help > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1796 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Dec 1, 2009 9:19 pm Subject: Re: Apr 5000 appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi, Sounds to me like you're playing a quarter track or four track, quarter inch tape. Your player is probably either mono, two track NAB stereo. It sounds like everything is ok. But for correct play of the tape in question, you'll need to figure out what the format really is and then plug in the correct head stack. I of coarse, have a better answer. I've got a pristine Otari MX-55/N with four heads. The second play head is for consumer quarter track stereo. It can be your's for $950 USD plus shipping from Charlotte, NC. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat PS, the MCI/Sony APR is a fine machine.(grin) Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1797 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 1, 2009 9:30 pm Subject: Re: Apr 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Bobby, As Dana says, you may have a quarter-track tape there. I'm doing a project right now between my APRs for the quarter-track portions and my A80 for the two-track portions. See http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/\ 025-reel-tape/ for a hopefully semi-lucid explanation and a picture (clickable for larger) of the different track formats. Also look at these posts for perhaps more than you wanted to know about head configurations, but no time to learn like the present once you've been bitten by it, might as well look at the whole picture. http://richardhess.com/notes/2009/09/02/dangers-of-old-tape-recorders-for-playba\ ck-using-the-elevator-head/ http://richardhess.com/notes/2007/09/12/playback-of-nab-2-track-tapes-on-a-din-s\ tereo-butterfly-head/ www.JRFMagnetics.com should be able to fix you up with a quarter-track plug-in head assembly. The nice thing is that the machine remembers the alignment setting for each head if you flip the DIP switches correctly. That's why I love the APR for this kind of work. Manual available at http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ Cheers, Richard At 08:22 PM 2009-12-01, bobbyshows@... wrote: >First time posting, new owner of APR 5000. > >Brought it home, tried to play prerecorded tape, hear all tracks(one >backwards) what's wrong? or is this what To expect, maybe it will >only play what it records? > >Please help > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1798 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 2:40 am Subject: RE: Apr 5000 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email That Otari looks in great condition too, wish you were closer to the UK Regards S. Blacklock www.vintagerecorders.co.uk From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pat Appleson Sent: 02 December 2009 02:20 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Apr 5000 Hi, Sounds to me like you're playing a quarter track or four track, quarter inch tape. Your player is probably either mono, two track NAB stereo. It sounds like everything is ok. But for correct play of the tape in question, you'll need to figure out what the format really is and then plug in the correct head stack. I of coarse, have a better answer. I've got a pristine Otari MX-55/N with four heads. The second play head is for consumer quarter track stereo. It can be your's for $950 USD plus shipping from Charlotte, NC. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat PS, the MCI/Sony APR is a fine machine.(grin) Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.88/2537 - Release Date: 11/30/09 21:05:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1799 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 1:21 pm Subject: RE: Apr 5000 appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi, Yes, it is. I did all the razor blade editing on my brown MCI JH-110-2-4. Now, it's really torn up on in front of the capstan. (grin) If you want any of them. I'll pack them on a pallet and ship fed-x. air. It'll probably cost 600 to 1K in USD. Best Regards Pat At 02:40 AM 12/3/2009, you wrote: > > >That Otari looks in great condition too, wish you were closer to the UK > >Regards > >S. Blacklock > >www.vintagerecorders.co.uk > >From: >sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf >Of Pat Appleson >Sent: 02 December 2009 02:20 >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Apr 5000 > >Hi, > >Sounds to me like you're playing a quarter track or four track, >quarter inch tape. Your player is probably either mono, two track >NAB stereo. It sounds like everything is ok. But for correct play >of the tape in question, you'll need to figure out what the format >really is and then plug in the correct head stack. > >I of coarse, have a better answer. I've got a pristine Otari MX-55/N >with four heads. The second play head is for consumer quarter track >stereo. It can be your's for $950 USD plus shipping from Charlotte, NC. > >Take a look: >http://www.appleson.co\ m/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm > >Best Regards >Pat > >PS, the MCI/Sony APR is a fine machine.(grin) > >Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. >Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. >2359 Highway 70, SE >Suite 102 >Hickory, NC 28602 >828 465-5500 or >954 802-3663 >www.appleson.com >email: >appleson@... >Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.88/2537 - Release Date: 11/30/09 >21:05:00 > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1800 From: "bobbyshows@..." Date: Sat Dec 5, 2009 1:41 pm Subject: Apr 5000 Geting to know it bobbyshows... Offline Send Email I've figured out that this is a half track (actually three tracks counting time code), I've also figured out how to operate most things. Had trouble with the record volume, the problem was the input volume pots were in need of cleaning. All I did was work them up and down a bunch of times and the needle jumped right up. This this is really awesome, but it is more than I need. It is in new condition. The person I got it from found the owners manual, and that has helped. Thanks for everyone's help. Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1801 From: "bobbyshows@..." Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 8:43 am Subject: Interface or in/out match for 5000 bobbyshows... Offline Send Email I recently acquired a APR5003v. I was told in order to record or playback from non professional equipment, I will need something to match up the impedance? Can anyone clear this up for me? Does anyone have such a box? Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1802 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 9:20 am Subject: Re: Interface or in/out match for 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Bobby, The easiest way to do this is to do what I do in reverse with my Nakamichi Dragons: use a balancing box. The one I use and I think it's a good one is the Aphex http://www.aphex.com/124A.htm These often come up on eBay for about $100 or so. You will need four XLR male to XLR female cables to connect this to the APR (ignore the timecode channel -- channel 3 -- for now) The back of the Aphex 124A has four RCA connectors at the proper levels. Good luck. Speak to www.jrfmagnetics.com about getting a quarter-track head in a new head assembly for this machine. Then you will be very happy. This will then play back tapes better than any consumer machine. I would NOT record quarter track--it makes no sense to do that. Use the two-track NAB heads that you have for recording. Cheers, Richard At 08:43 AM 2009-12-07, you wrote: >I recently acquired a APR5003v. I was told in order to record or >playback from non professional equipment, I will need something to >match up the impedance? Can anyone clear this up for me? Does anyone >have such a box? Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1803 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 9:26 am Subject: Re: Interface or in/out match for 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email On the Aphex 124A, do NOT engage (press in) the 600 ohm termination switch. The APR doesn't need it and you'll get more headroom without it. At 08:43 AM 2009-12-07, you wrote: >I recently acquired a APR5003v. I was told in order to record or >playback from non professional equipment, I will need something to >match up the impedance? Can anyone clear this up for me? Does anyone >have such a box? > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1804 From: "Karen/Kevin Peckham" Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 9:31 am Subject: Re: Interface or in/out match for 5000 record2tape Offline Send Email I believe what they were referring to was the fact that your pro machine is set up to expect professional balanced line level low impedance signals (+4dB), which are 14 dB hotter than the (-10dB) unbalanced and sometimes high impedance signals typically encountered on consumer audio equipment. Devices which convert (basically just a 14dB line amp on the input side, and a 14dB pad going back the other way for playback) are called various names including: "level conversion", "matching amps", "match boxes" and "unbalanced to balanced" converters. Here is a link to a whole bunch of thee type coversion amps. http://www.fullcompass.com/category/Line-Amps-Level-Matching-Amps.html Hope that helps. Kevin Peckham On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:43 AM, bobbyshows@... < bobbyshows@...> wrote: > > > I recently acquired a APR5003v. I was told in order to record or playback > from non professional equipment, I will need something to match up the > impedance? Can anyone clear this up for me? Does anyone have such a box? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1805 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 9:49 am Subject: Re: Interface or in/out match for 5000 richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Kevin and Bobby, The challenge with the list at Full compass, is that some of these require external power supplies that aren't included in the price (many of the Radio Design Labs (RDL) units, for example), and we don't know how some of them sound (Samson, would be a good suspect as I find their stuff variable in quality). I have eight of the Aphex units and have been using them for years. They sound quite transparent, at least going from -10 dBV to +4dBu. As an aside, the level change is approximately 12 dB, not 14, because most consumer equipment is 10 dB below 1 volt while pro gear is 4 dB above 0.775 volts. But, consumer gear is really rather all over the place. If you have a mixer like a Mackie you can do the conversions on that with just possibly connector adapters. The Mackie 1402 VLZ that I have is quite transparent. It has a wide range of input options and a reasonable number of output options. It's harder (but not impossible) to make that go both directions at the same time. Cheers, Richard At 09:31 AM 2009-12-07, Karen/Kevin Peckham wrote: >... >Here is a link to a whole bunch of thee type coversion amps. > >http://www.fullcompass.com/category/Line-Amps-Level-Matching-Amps.html > >Hope that helps. > >Kevin Peckham > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1806 From: "bobbyshows@..." Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 11:08 am Subject: Re: Interface or in/out match for 5000 bobbyshows... Offline Send Email --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Kevin and Bobby, > > The challenge with the list at Full compass, is that some of these > require external power supplies that aren't included in the price > (many of the Radio Design Labs (RDL) units, for example), and we > don't know how some of them sound (Samson, would be a good suspect as > I find their stuff variable in quality). > > I have eight of the Aphex units and have been using them for years. > They sound quite transparent, at least going from -10 dBV to +4dBu. > > As an aside, the level change is approximately 12 dB, not 14, because > most consumer equipment is 10 dB below 1 volt while pro gear is 4 dB > above 0.775 volts. But, consumer gear is really rather all over the place. > > If you have a mixer like a Mackie you can do the conversions on that > with just possibly connector adapters. The Mackie 1402 VLZ that I > have is quite transparent. It has a wide range of input options and a > reasonable number of output options. It's harder (but not impossible) > to make that go both directions at the same time. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 09:31 AM 2009-12-07, Karen/Kevin Peckham wrote: > >... > >Here is a link to a whole bunch of thee type coversion amps. > > > >http://www.fullcompass.com/category/Line-Amps-Level-Matching-Amps.html > > > >Hope that helps. > > > >Kevin Peckham > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Thanks for all your help. I'll check out the links and also call locally. Bobby Reply | Messages in this Topic (6 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1807 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:01 pm Subject: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, Has anyone tried bypassing the internal repro amp with something like ATR's Aria electronics, or Bottlehead's Tape Repro Amp. I was thinking about maybe hotrodding my 5003v with a different repro setup. Any information on pitfalls or experiences would be greatly appreciated. Also, I guess the main question is how feasible is a project of this scope given the already complicated electronics of the APR 5003v. THX- Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1808 From: Pat Appleson Date: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:36 pm Subject: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v appleson1 Offline Send Email Ozzie, WHY????? WHY bother???? Out of all the junk in that model, the repro amp is the most trouble free, unless it's hit by lightning. (Grin) pat At 08:01 PM 12/21/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Guys, > >Has anyone tried bypassing the internal repro >amp with something like ATR's Aria electronics, >or Bottlehead's Tape Repro Amp. I was thinking >about maybe hotrodding my 5003v with a different >repro setup. Any information on pitfalls or >experiences would be greatly appreciated. Also, >I guess the main question is how feasible is a >project of this scope given the already >complicated electronics of the APR 5003v. > >THX- > >Ozzie > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1809 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 am Subject: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Pat, Unfortunately, this is the time of year when I get bored and need to try something new. I figure if some daring soul would temp this with their ATR-102 who am I to have reservations. -Ozzie --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Pat Appleson wrote: > > Ozzie, > > WHY????? > WHY bother???? > > Out of all the junk in that model, the repro amp > is the most trouble free, unless it's hit by lightning. (Grin) > > > > pat > > > > At 08:01 PM 12/21/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi Guys, > > > >Has anyone tried bypassing the internal repro > >amp with something like ATR's Aria electronics, > >or Bottlehead's Tape Repro Amp. I was thinking > >about maybe hotrodding my 5003v with a different > >repro setup. Any information on pitfalls or > >experiences would be greatly appreciated. Also, > >I guess the main question is how feasible is a > >project of this scope given the already > >complicated electronics of the APR 5003v. > > > >THX- > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1810 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:26 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v appleson1 Offline Send Email Oz, 'You 'Da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Merry Christmas Pat ps. if you're really bored, I'll let you take a stab at fixing a Panasonic MII AU-66 VTR Power Supply board. Should be easy for a guy like you. Everybody in America has stopped repairing this one.(grin) Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1811 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:57 am Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v radsimple Offline Send Email Pat: Did anyone ever repair these boards -- or were they usually just thrown away and replaced with factory spare parts? External repro-amps just take the cables from the heads and route them to the new electronics, don't they? That's what Sony did with their mastering A820's going to the Cello P603's. I have one of these setups and it simply takes Cello Strings which are wired to a replacement D-Sub that the headblock plugs into. You could do the same with your APR. Someday, I'll do the same with my MTR-20 (which I picked because it will pull 14 inch 1/2" tape ). Merry Xmas! Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/22/2009 9:51:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, appleson@... writes: Oz, 'You 'Da Man!!!!!!!!!'You Merry Christmas Pat ps. if you're really bored, I'll let you take a stab at fixing a Panasonic MII AU-66 VTR Power Supply board. Should be easy for a guy like you. Everybody in America has stopped repairing this one.(grin) Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.www email: _appleson@..._ (mailto:appleson@...) Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1812 From: "les_lmbrt" Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:01 pm Subject: Re: MII boards les_lmbrt Offline Send Email Off topic, but I quite often walk past a pile of MII at one of my clients' studios. They're looking at clearing out all of this boat anchor material, and may whisk it off anytime. Which bits would be considered worth saving, I don't have space to take it all on, there's a seven foot high pile and maybe some more inside the door it's blocking. I think they've already transferred the archive by now. It's in the UK, no-one lining up for that kind of thing that I know of here. And Seasoned Gruntings to you all. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Pat Appleson wrote: > > Oz, > > > 'You 'Da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > Merry Christmas > Pat > > ps. if you're really bored, I'll let you take a stab at fixing a > Panasonic MII AU-66 VTR Power Supply board. Should be easy for a guy > like you. Everybody in America has stopped repairing this one.(grin) > > > > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1813 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:32 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v appleson1 Offline Send Email H Mark, First, I'm not an expert on the Sony APR digital decks. Jeep had sold the company and although I had many MCI decks, the next versions I purchased were the Otari MX-55N. Mainly, because I was dubbing radio spots, 1000 at a time. I'd play the masters back off of a Nak (sony) PCM-F1, directly to the dubbers. It made for a wonderful sound and saved a rec/pb step in the process. And, I couldn't get a good deal on the newer Sony models. They moved all the original MCI employees out. So you'd drive over there on Commercial Blvd. and nobody knew who the frick you were. Or, who you thought you were. (grin). You asked.....Did anyone ever repair these boards -- or were they usually just thrown away and replaced with factory spare parts? All the MCI boards, I could repair. The PLL boards, I usually sent back to the factory and they fixed them. Most of the time, it was the bad load of DIP sockets. And the prices were such, that I had two or three copies of everything in stock. Now for Sony Digital, the prices went up so high at one point, I recall ABC yelling at Sony because of their capstan prices in parts. It was almost the price of a new machine. Now, most of the time you could make an outboard box and just plug in the heads. One or two of these guys that are doing it, from what I can tell, have worked really hard on the engineering and "sound" of their product. With that comes a big price tag, for what is essentially a one or two off item. These things are not like selling Chevy's where a small run is 800,000 units. (grin) Yes, you could do it to the MTR series machines, even Otari MX55N. Just grab the signals at the sub D connector on the head block. Then, figure out the gaps on all the heads & inductance, and you're rockin. BTW, I've got a MTR-10 and MX55N still left for sale if you know of any one. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1814 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:03 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Oz, If it's in the UK, they are PAL versions. At least I assume that the MII format would be like that over there. I'd love to get one or two of the Pull out power supplies. It's out of a AU-65 VTR. Original MFG is TDK, Corp. Model VYK3004, ser # 11703056 MSA924 Rev F Find me a couple of those. I'll buy you a drink!!! Best Regards pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1815 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:35 am Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Pat, Do You have an idea, from where I can get the schematics diagram of the Otari MX55N chasis. I did try everywhere and I cannot find it in PDF form to download and I did try over eBay to buy a service manuals CD, where everything else was burned, but not the necessary documentation accoring to Murphies laws... Thanks and WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 23 December, 2009 21:32 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v H Mark, First, I'm not an expert on the Sony APR digital decks. Jeep had sold the company and although I had many MCI decks, the next versions I purchased were the Otari MX-55N. Mainly, because I was dubbing radio spots, 1000 at a time. I'd play the masters back off of a Nak (sony) PCM-F1, directly to the dubbers. It made for a wonderful sound and saved a rec/pb step in the process. And, I couldn't get a good deal on the newer Sony models. They moved all the original MCI employees out. So you'd drive over there on Commercial Blvd. and nobody knew who the frick you were. Or, who you thought you were. (grin). You asked.....Did anyone ever repair these boards -- or were they usually just thrown away and replaced with factory spare parts? All the MCI boards, I could repair. The PLL boards, I usually sent back to the factory and they fixed them. Most of the time, it was the bad load of DIP sockets. And the prices were such, that I had two or three copies of everything in stock. Now for Sony Digital, the prices went up so high at one point, I recall ABC yelling at Sony because of their capstan prices in parts. It was almost the price of a new machine. Now, most of the time you could make an outboard box and just plug in the heads. One or two of these guys that are doing it, from what I can tell, have worked really hard on the engineering and "sound" of their product. With that comes a big price tag, for what is essentially a one or two off item. These things are not like selling Chevy's where a small run is 800,000 units. (grin) Yes, you could do it to the MTR series machines, even Otari MX55N. Just grab the signals at the sub D connector on the head block. Then, figure out the gaps on all the heads & inductance, and you're rockin. BTW, I've got a MTR-10 and MX55N still left for sale if you know of any one. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1816 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Arif, There is an Otari group that is similar to this one, but focusing on Otari machines. I am not a member, so I do not know how active it is, but perhaps someone there can assist you. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/otari_equipment/ Merry Christmas! Richard At 07:35 AM 2009-12-24, you wrote: >Dear Pat, > >Do You have an idea, from where I can get the schematics diagram of >the Otari MX55N chasis. I did try everywhere and I cannot find it in >PDF form to download and I did try over eBay to buy a service >manuals CD, where everything else was burned, but not the necessary >documentation accoring to Murphies laws... > >Thanks and WBR > >Arif IYICIL Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1817 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:58 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi, Yeah, I got 'em all. But I don't have 'em in PDF. I'll have to scan them in and convert them. You should be able to use a big jpg. When you say chassis, do you meant the mechanical exploded drawings. Or the skat's?? Merry Christmas pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1818 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:43 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. What exactly do you need from an MII machine???? Perhaps I can help. Craig T. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 8:03 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: MII boards Hi Oz, If it's in the UK, they are PAL versions. At least I assume that the MII format would be like that over there. I'd love to get one or two of the Pull out power supplies. It's out of a AU-65 VTR. Original MFG is TDK, Corp. Model VYK3004, ser # 11703056 MSA924 Rev F Find me a couple of those. I'll buy you a drink!!! Best Regards pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando = [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1819 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi, this is Craig. I am looking for a Sony MXP-3000 Console. I do not need it right away and have two Tascam M3700 consoles that I would like to sell in order to help pay for the Sony. If there are any MCI consoles with at least 36 inputs ( I am looking for primarily Line Level Inputs ) available for sale, please let me know....Again, no hurry. Thank you!!! Craig T. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v H Mark, First, I'm not an expert on the Sony APR digital decks. Jeep had sold the company and although I had many MCI decks, the next versions I purchased were the Otari MX-55N. Mainly, because I was dubbing radio spots, 1000 at a time. I'd play the masters back off of a Nak (sony) PCM-F1, directly to the dubbers. It made for a wonderful sound and saved a rec/pb step in the process. And, I couldn't get a good deal on the newer Sony models. They moved all the original MCI employees out. So you'd drive over there on Commercial Blvd. and nobody knew who the frick you were. Or, who you thought you were. (grin). You asked.....Did anyone ever repair these boards -- or were they usually just thrown away and replaced with factory spare parts? All the MCI boards, I could repair. The PLL boards, I usually sent back to the factory and they fixed them. Most of the time, it was the bad load of DIP sockets. And the prices were such, that I had two or three copies of everything in stock. Now for Sony Digital, the prices went up so high at one point, I recall ABC yelling at Sony because of their capstan prices in parts. It was almost the price of a new machine. Now, most of the time you could make an outboard box and just plug in the heads. One or two of these guys that are doing it, from what I can tell, have worked really hard on the engineering and "sound" of their product. With that comes a big price tag, for what is essentially a one or two off item. These things are not like selling Chevy's where a small run is 800,000 units. (grin) Yes, you could do it to the MTR series machines, even Otari MX55N. Just grab the signals at the sub D connector on the head block. Then, figure out the gaps on all the heads & inductance, and you're rockin. BTW, I've got a MTR-10 and MX55N still left for sale if you know of any one. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1820 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:52 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Craig, I'll do a little detective work for a 36 in Sony MXP. A couple of joints in Miami are still using them, I believe. The MII is simple. I need the power supply. it's a five inch square box that falls out of the bottom of the unit when you remove a few screws. TDK is the OEM. I actually need the big board inside the unit. It's the one thats' actually over stuffed with parts, You just know, by looking at it, it's gonna over heat and fail. And, that's just what it does. (grin) It's out of a AU-65 VTR. Original MFG is TDK, Corp. Model VYK3004, ser # 11703056 MSA924 Rev F Thanks so much for your help. I'll get back to you after the first, either way, on the MXP. Happy New Year pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1821 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:26 am Subject: Otari MX55N boards... Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Pat, I will not create great time consuming works... I have already a service manual, containing sections 1 (introduction), 2 (installation), 3 (controls, indicators), 4 (operation), 5 (maintenance, adjustment) and 7 (exploded views). But the most important section 6 Printed Circuit Board and Parts Lists is missing in this PDF document, which I can also send to You for review in case You will ask for it. I do need only the schematics diagrams of the control board and audio board and the interconnection and if the layout can be scanned it will be "more than great". Part-lists are probably not necessay. I have only the mechanical "chasis", (tape drive unit) and the control board is installed, but no audio section and I will try to combine an audio section to the related switches (19/38cm/s or record/playback... etc) which I have lying around. (I have a spare audio section from Tascam-ATR60 and some boards from Studer-B67 or very old tube Telefunken V86/V87, and I am planning to complete this mechanical body and audio... ) When You will have time and make a scan of the asked pages, it will help to come further. Many thanks and best regards. Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 December, 2009 19:58 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v Hi, Yeah, I got 'em all. But I don't have 'em in PDF. I'll have to scan them in and convert them. You should be able to use a big jpg. When you say chassis, do you meant the mechanical exploded drawings. Or the skat's?? Merry Christmas pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1822 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:12 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v engjch13 Offline Send Email First, where are you located? Second, there's a Yahoo group for the MXP console, and a couple of really knowledgeable ex-factory folk there, you should probably join that and ask there as well. They come up for sale occasionally there. Third, also ask Randy Blevins (http://www.blevinsaudio.com). He deals with a lot of MCI stuff but would also likely be able to hook you up with an MXP. Great guy, great resource, I speak as a very satisfied customer. Fourth, be careful about equipment brokers (there's a place in vermont I'm thinking especially of). There are a few trustworthy ones, and more than a few who aren't. Jeff Chestek cjtayerle@... wrote: > > > > Hi, this is Craig. I am looking for a Sony MXP-3000 Console. I do not > need it right away and have two Tascam M3700 consoles that I would like > to sell in order to help pay for the Sony. If there are any MCI consoles > with at least 36 inputs ( I am looking for primarily Line Level Inputs ) > available for sale, please let me know....Again, no hurry. > > Thank you!!! > > Craig T. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1823 From: Pat Appleson Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:03 pm Subject: Re: Otari MX55N boards... Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Arify, I just printed out you note. I'll try to scan them tom or Sunday. Happy New Year pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1824 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Jeff, Thank you so much for all of the information! I am a resident of West Palm Beach, Florida, but after the hurricanes of 2004, I had my collection of equipment that survived moved safely to climate controlled storage in Bentonville, Arkansas. ( I have property there ). Do you have the address or moderator for the MXP console yahoo group? I will also contact Randy. Many Thanks! Craig J. Tayerle -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Chestek To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Dec 25, 2009 1:12 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v First, where are you located? Second, there's a Yahoo group for the MXP console, and a couple of really knowledgeable ex-factory folk there, you should probably join that and ask there as well. They come up for sale occasionally there. Third, also ask Randy Blevins (http://www.blevinsaudio.com). He deals with a lot of MCI stuff but would also likely be able to hook you up with an MXP. Great guy, great resource, I speak as a very satisfied customer. Fourth, be careful about equipment brokers (there's a place in vermont I'm thinking especially of). There are a few trustworthy ones, and more than a few who aren't. Jeff Chestek cjtayerle@... wrote: > > > > Hi, this is Craig. I am looking for a Sony MXP-3000 Console. I do not > need it right away and have two Tascam M3700 consoles that I would like > to sell in order to help pay for the Sony. If there are any MCI consoles > with at least 36 inputs ( I am looking for primarily Line Level Inputs ) > available for sale, please let me know....Again, no hurry. > > Thank you!!! > > Craig T. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1825 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:50 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Pat, Many Thanks! I am a resident of West Palm Beach, Florida. My equipment that survived the hurricanes of 2004 were moved to safety in Bentonville, Arkansas ( climate controlled storage ). I still have plenty of room here locally for a nice MXP! I should be able to help you out on the power supply and will let you know early next week. Thank you for your patience! Take care, Craig J. Tayerle -----Original Message----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2009 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: MII boards Hi Craig, I'll do a little detective work for a 36 in Sony MXP. A couple of joints in Miami are still using them, I believe. The MII is simple. I need the power supply. it's a five inch square box that falls out of the bottom of the unit when you remove a few screws. TDK is the OEM. I actually need the big board inside the unit. It's the one thats' actually over stuffed with parts, You just know, by looking at it, it's gonna over heat and fail. And, that's just what it does. (grin) It's out of a AU-65 VTR. Original MFG is TDK, Corp. Model VYK3004, ser # 11703056 MSA924 Rev F Thanks so much for your help. I'll get back to you after the first, either way, on the MXP. Happy New Year pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1826 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v engjch13 Offline Send Email You'll need to have a Yahoo account (free). Go here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sony-mxp-3k/ Jeff --------------------------------- cjtayerle@... wrote: > Do you have the address or moderator for the MXP console yahoo group? Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1827 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Jeff, I have one and my membership is pending. Thank you! Craig T. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Chestek To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Dec 25, 2009 11:39 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v You'll need to have a Yahoo account (free). Go here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sony-mxp-3k/ Jeff --------------------------------- cjtayerle@... wrote: > Do you have the address or moderator for the MXP console yahoo group? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1828 From: "les_lmbrt" Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:55 am Subject: Re: Tascam console and APR Lo Hi speed issue. les_lmbrt Offline Send Email Off topic,but you mentioned the Tascam consoles. My friend has an old 3500, which he still needs a balancing kit for. The part number is LA-3500, I fitted the two I found at the time, still have the box now housing 2 voice boards for an Oberheim OBXa. I've had an ebaY watch for 2 years, nothing. Possibly in someone's workshop gathering dust? My APR doesn't seem to reliably switch to the lower speed range if I select that. I have multiple headblocks, and the problem doesn't change if I swap the block. I still don't have a manual, so I can't take the basic rtfm route Is it a power-on recognition system, or do you need to give a secret handshake once it's been asked to go low? Stop start cycle usually wakes it down My basic stereo block has had a switch added on the top to save the headblock removal sequence,which would normally be a part of the selection process. It came from a mastering suite with impatient engineers or too few maintenance staff. They also put a chickenshead knob on the azimuth. No ECC83 in the playback patch though. --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, cjtayerle@... wrote: > > > Hi, this is Craig. I am looking for a Sony MXP-3000 Console. I do not need it right away and have two Tascam M3700 consoles that I would like > to sell in order to help pay for the Sony. If there are any MCI consoles with at least 36 inputs ( I am looking for primarily Line Level Inputs ) > available for sale, please let me know....Again, no hurry. > > Thank you!!! > > Craig T. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Appleson > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 2:32 pm > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: Using an external repro amp with an Apr 5003v > > > > > H Mark, > > First, I'm not an expert on the Sony APR digital decks. > Jeep had sold the company and although I had many MCI decks, the next > versions I purchased were the Otari MX-55N. > Mainly, because I was dubbing radio spots, 1000 at a time. I'd play > the masters back off of a Nak (sony) PCM-F1, directly to the dubbers. > It made for a wonderful sound and saved a rec/pb step in the process. > > And, I couldn't get a good deal on the newer Sony models. They moved > all the original MCI employees out. So you'd drive over there on > Commercial Blvd. and nobody knew who the frick you were. Or, who you > thought you were. (grin). > > You asked.....Did anyone ever repair these boards -- or were they > usually just thrown > away and replaced with factory spare parts? > > All the MCI boards, I could repair. The PLL boards, I usually sent > back to the factory and they fixed them. Most of the time, it was the > bad load of DIP sockets. And the prices were such, that I had two or > three copies of everything in stock. > > Now for Sony Digital, the prices went up so high at one point, I > recall ABC yelling at Sony because of their capstan prices in parts. > It was almost the price of a new machine. > > Now, most of the time you could make an outboard box and just plug in > the heads. One or two of these guys that are doing it, from what > I can tell, have worked really hard on the engineering and "sound" of > their product. With that comes a big price tag, for what is > essentially a one or two off item. These things are not like selling > Chevy's where a small run is 800,000 units. (grin) > > Yes, you could do it to the MTR series machines, even Otari > MX55N. Just grab the signals at the sub D connector on the head block. > Then, figure out the gaps on all the heads & inductance, and you're rockin. > > BTW, I've got a MTR-10 and MX55N still left for sale if you know of > any one. Take a look: http://www.appleson.com/Photog33%20Otari%2011-07-09.htm > > Best Regards > Pat > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 954 802-3663 > www.appleson.com > email: appleson@... > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1829 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Re: Tascam console and APR Lo Hi speed issue. richardlhess Offline Send Email At 09:55 AM 2009-12-26, les_lmbrt wrote: >Off topic,but you mentioned the Tascam consoles. My friend has an >old 3500, which he still needs a balancing kit for. The part number >is LA-3500, I fitted the two I found at the time, still have the box >now housing 2 voice boards for an Oberheim OBXa. I've had an ebaY >watch for 2 years, nothing. Possibly in someone's workshop gathering dust? Hi, Les, Do you need a specific balancing option for the Tascam board or can you use things like the Aphex 124A http://www.aphex.com/124A.htm which can be found on eBay fairly regularly -- or at least used to be -- and at about $100 each. I have bought a half dozen or so this way. >My APR doesn't seem to reliably switch to the lower speed range if I >select that. I have multiple headblocks, and the problem doesn't >change if I swap the block. >I still don't have a manual, so I can't take the basic rtfm route >Is it a power-on recognition system, or do you need to give a secret >handshake once it's been asked to go low? Stop start cycle usually >wakes it down >My basic stereo block has had a switch added on the top to save the >headblock removal sequence,which would normally be a part of the >selection process. It came from a mastering suite with impatient >engineers or too few maintenance staff. They also put a chickenshead >knob on the azimuth. No ECC83 in the playback patch though. This seems to be an issue in the P4.02.01.5 software that was corrected in the P4.02.01.6 software, but some say that has different bugs. I prefer the ".6" version because this is solved. It appears to me that the speed range DIP switch on the head block is only read at power on and in the ".5" version of the software, whenever you change speeds, the system defaults to the high-speed range. You then need to power cycle the machine. In the ".6" version all works as expected in most of my machines, but one does not like the low speed heads and will keep stopping. That may have been one that was field upgraded improperly or it may have a non-upgraded version of a peripheral board of some flavour. There are no excuses for not RTFMing, however not RTFM is not why you don't know the above, as it is not addressed in the FM. To make sure there are no excuses, please look here, but please do not make it too public (I don't want/let Google find it). www.richardhess.net/apr/ Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1830 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:32 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Craig, Yes, we moved in June of 2005, Same Reason Anything you can find in that ole MII supply would be great. Happy New Year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1831 From: cjtayerle@... Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:00 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards rtymeout Offline Send Email Hi Pat, I just noticed your "954" area code The supply should not be a problem. I should have one rounded up by 12/28 or 12/29. Happy New Year to you & your family. Craig T. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Dec 26, 2009 4:32 pm Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: MII boards Hi Craig, Yes, we moved in June of 2005, Same Reason Anything you can find in that ole MII supply would be great. Happy New Year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1832 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:37 pm Subject: Re: Otari MX55N boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Arify, Okay, goto my home page, push Service. I've got a bunch of Otari MX-55/N skats. Help yourself. Happy New Year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1833 From: Pat Appleson Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:10 pm Subject: Re: Re: MII boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Craig, Wow, no rush or anything. (grin) I forgot that I changed cell phones to get a better deal, of coarse, but yes, I've got 30 years in South Florida. And we want desperately, to come back. You really want to help me. I need a job. Either in post management, Radio or TV management or PR. Maybe you know of something or if the situation presents itself, please mention my name. Send my you email address to: appleson@... and I'll send you a bio. Where are you at? Delray? Happy New Year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (21 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1834 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:21 am Subject: Re: Re: Otari MX55N boards arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Pat, Many many thanks and I will take the OTARI again on my desk, when I will finish the mechanical parts for the current APR on my working bench. I have a slight problem with the aluminium material, which I will use to make some rolls for the SONY and therefore it did took very long time... I will inform You in several weeks again, about the result. Thanks again and best regards. Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com ; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 27 December, 2009 01:37 Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Otari MX55N boards Hi Arify, Okay, goto my home page, push Service. I've got a bunch of Otari MX-55/N skats. Help yourself. Happy New Year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 954 802-3663 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1835 From: Pat Appleson Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:50 am Subject: Re: Re: Otari MX55N boards appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Arify, That's great. I'm happy you liked them. Keep in touch. Happy New year Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1836 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:20 am Subject: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Does anyone know if Sony ever produced 1/2" time code heads for the APR 5003? Thanks, Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1837 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:44 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Ozzie: Hmmm . . . what would that be - that is different from a normal 4T 1/2" head? 1/4" time-code is a 3-track format that squeezes the TC in between (while FM modulating the signal) and is meant for field recording on DC-powered portable machines -- most notably the Nagra IV-STC. There never was any 1/2" field recording of movie dialogue, since no machines were ever made to do that. While some have done 1/2" field recording of music, TC wasn't used since there was no need to sync to film or video. For 1/2" 4-track or higher track count STUDIO machines, the practice is to put TC on an outer track, often skipping the adjacent track to avoid cross-talk. Or, am I missing something? Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/29/2009 5:22:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, obostic@... writes: Does anyone know if Sony ever produced 1/2" time code heads for the APR 5003? Thanks, Ozzie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1838 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email At 07:44 AM 2009-12-29, newmedia@... wrote: >Ozzie: > >Hmmm . . . what would that be - that is different from a normal 4T 1/2" >head? > >1/4" time-code is a 3-track format that squeezes the TC in between (while >FM modulating the signal) and is meant for field recording on DC-powered >portable machines -- most notably the Nagra IV-STC. > >There never was any 1/2" field recording of movie dialogue, since no >machines were ever made to do that. While some have done 1/2" >field recording >of music, TC wasn't used since there was no need to sync to film or video. > >For 1/2" 4-track or higher track count STUDIO machines, the practice is to >put TC on an outer track, often skipping the adjacent track to avoid >cross-talk. > >Or, am I missing something? Hi, Mark, Happy New Year to you. I think you provided a comprehensive answer to Ozzie's question. I have never seen 1/2-inch timecode heads, but it wouldn't hurt to ask John French if he has ever seen them. The two sets of 1/2-inch heads that I have for the APR are both stereo. One was assembled out of NOS heads and a 1/4-inch head assembly by JRF and the other was a used (but only slightly) stock Sony assembly. Sony begs this question, however, by assigning two of the twelve memory locations to 1/2-inch 3-channel. The factory experts on the list have agreed that the third channel was always time code, and never an optional third audio channel based on firmware and other considerations. 1/2-inch 4-channel begs the quality issue that Ozzie is looking for, as the track width is, IIRC, only 70 mils while standard 1/4-inch NAB tracks are 82 mils, even with Centre Track Time Code. So, with 1/2-inch 4-track, you get slightly more asperity noise and slightly less signal-to-noise ratio than you do with 1/4-inch stereo, while with 1/2-inch two track, the asperity noise is way down while still having a manageable azimuth range at 15 in/s. The track widths for 1/2-inch two track are close to full-track mono width. IIRC, the guard band is fairly narrow, but I haven't measured it and I don't know if it would be possible to cobble in a CTTC head. This would be a question for JRF. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1839 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:31 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Begs the question -- indeed!! While the MCI/Sony experts might insist that the third track on 1/2" tape was always used for TC, they are flat out wrong. For a decade starting the late 50's, the 1/2" 3-track format was standard in studios for recording music and jingles, as you know. This remained the case until the 4T machines came in the mid-60's and then the 8T machines in the late-60's and then only for some projects. Three-channel analog tape recording was used in many ways -- most commonly for recording a widely spaced mics for "stereo" and an extra mic for the "soloist." In some cases, there were three widely spaced mics and what could be called 3-channel full ensemble stereo (3CS) was recorded. It would make little sense for this to be time-code, since TC was for sync'ing dialogue to movies and video -- not for musical production. And most movie dialogue and sound-effect recording was done on mag-coded film. The Steenbeck and Kem film sound editors still being used into the 1990's have multiple plates/heads for film -- not magnetic tape. 3CS was recorded by Fine Studios for Mercury Living Presence and by Columbia at their famous 30th Street studio, among others like Everest. Some of this material is now available on multi-channel SACD -- straight from the original 3T 1/2" session masters to DSD. If you haven't heard "Kind of Blue" in 3CS then you haven't heard Miles Davis. According to the Sony engineer who re-mastered "Time Out" for SACD, Dave Brubeck broke into tears when he heard the playback and said, "That's the way it was supposed to sound." Many in the audio business at the time were convinced that 3CS was the way that music should be played -- including Sol Marantz and Paul Klipsch, to name a few. The center channel both "solves" the hole-in-the-middle problem of 2-channel stereo and opens up the listening area so that a group can enjoy the music. The famous JBL Paragon speaker was originally meant to be the *center* speaker in a 3CS configuration with Klipshorns in the corners. Of course, this is largely forgotten history since it never came to pass. The audio industry killed 3CS for the obvious reason that moving from mono to 2-channel was all they thought the public would buy. There was also the problem of 3-channel reproduction by LP. A 3CS consumer tape format would have been needed. None ever appeared. Of course Sony allocated 2x positions for 3T 1/2" heads. There were many tens-of-thousands of tapes recorded in that format -- indeed most studio recordings for a decade. How the APR-5003 was supposed to handle a third audio channel is indeed a puzzle. My guess is that the intent was to playback only two of the tracks previously recorded. But TIME CODE was not even remotely a part of the story for 1/2" tape. Mark Stahlman New York City [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1840 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:46 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Mark, You and Tom Fine have made me well aware of all that you have just posted, but I do not think the people designing the APR-5000 recorders in the mid-1980s thought about this wonderful 1950s format (3T 1/2-inch). It certainly wasn't manifest in the final design as it appears that through all iterations, the third channel was locked into timecode only--at least that is my understanding and why I "invented" the FrankenSony configuration for using two side-by-side APR-5000s to reproduce 3- and 4-channel tapes. To be honest, I've never placed an audio card in the slot three position and tried to align it as I had been warned against it that the software won't handle it. One other point. The 0.150-inch wide Revere/CBS tape cartridge format was designed for 3 CS but was only implemented as a 2 CS format. The centre "guard band" was wide enough for a full-sized track while still maintaining guard bands between it and the outer two tracks. Even today, implementing 3 CS in a program such as Samplitude, while not difficult, is not as convenient as a 2 CS implementation, and while, in theory, WAV files can contain any number of tracks (e.g. Sound Devices's use of up to 8 CH WAV files in the 788), Samplitude splits WAV files larger than two when you attempt to open them. I don't know how other DAW software handles this. I have not looked back since "inventing" the FrankenSony and do all of my 3- and 4-track work using that configuration (much more 4-track than 3-track) unless it's 4-track 1/2-inch in which case I use my APR-16. Cheers, Richard At 05:31 PM 2009-12-29, newmedia@... wrote: >Richard: > >Begs the question -- indeed!! > >While the MCI/Sony experts might insist that the third track on 1/2" tape >was always used for TC, they are flat out wrong. > >For a decade starting the late 50's, the 1/2" 3-track format was standard >in studios for recording music and jingles, as you know. This remained the >case until the 4T machines came in the mid-60's and then the 8T machines >in the late-60's and then only for some projects. > >Three-channel analog tape recording was used in many ways -- most commonly >for recording a widely spaced mics for "stereo" and an extra mic for the >"soloist." In some cases, there were three widely spaced mics and what >could be called 3-channel full ensemble stereo (3CS) was recorded. > >It would make little sense for this to be time-code, since TC was for >sync'ing dialogue to movies and video -- not for musical >production. And most >movie dialogue and sound-effect recording was done on mag-coded film. The >Steenbeck and Kem film sound editors still being used into the 1990's have >multiple plates/heads for film -- not magnetic tape. > >3CS was recorded by Fine Studios for Mercury Living Presence and by >Columbia at their famous 30th Street studio, among others like >Everest. Some of >this material is now available on multi-channel SACD -- straight from the >original 3T 1/2" session masters to DSD. If you haven't heard "Kind of >Blue" in 3CS then you haven't heard Miles Davis. According to the Sony >engineer who re-mastered "Time Out" for SACD, Dave Brubeck broke >into tears when >he heard the playback and said, "That's the way it was supposed to sound." > >Many in the audio business at the time were convinced that 3CS was the way >that music should be played -- including Sol Marantz and Paul Klipsch, to >name a few. The center channel both "solves" the hole-in-the-middle problem >of 2-channel stereo and opens up the listening area so that a group can >enjoy the music. The famous JBL Paragon speaker was originally meant to be >the *center* speaker in a 3CS configuration with Klipshorns in the corners. > >Of course, this is largely forgotten history since it never came to pass. >The audio industry killed 3CS for the obvious reason that moving from mono >to 2-channel was all they thought the public would buy. There was also >the problem of 3-channel reproduction by LP. A 3CS consumer tape format >would have been needed. None ever appeared. > >Of course Sony allocated 2x positions for 3T 1/2" heads. There were many >tens-of-thousands of tapes recorded in that format -- indeed most studio >recordings for a decade. How the APR-5003 was supposed to handle a third >audio channel is indeed a puzzle. My guess is that the intent was >to playback >only two of the tracks previously recorded. > >But TIME CODE was not even remotely a part of the story for 1/2" tape. > >Mark Stahlman >New York City > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1841 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:18 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: Perhaps -- but they were Sony and they owned a vast archive of 3T 1/2" studio tapes. Whether it was ever implemented in released firmware, don't you think someone involved with the design thought that the APR-5000 *could* be used someday for re-mastering from the Sony/Columbia (or some of their customer's) archives? As it turned out, Sony had to build a custom machine to handle those tapes and Everest famously put together a 3T Ampex 300 using MR70 electronics for their re-mastering of their 3T 1/2" tapes. Btw, there's a thread over at the Tape Project forum on what is left of Sony Studios in NYC with an engineer discussing the 4T conversion of Studer A820's using outboard Cello electronics. (Yes, I have one of those Audio Suites.) Sometimes tape machines are used for playback only, ya know. Mark In a message dated 12/29/2009 5:48:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arclists@... writes: Hi, Mark, You and Tom Fine have made me well aware of all that you have just posted, but I do not think the people designing the APR-5000 recorders in the mid-1980s thought about this wonderful 1950s format (3T 1/2-inch). It certainly wasn't manifest in the final design as it appears that through all iterations, the third channel was locked into timecode only--at least that is my understanding and why I "invented" the FrankenSony configuration for using two side-by-side APR-5000s to reproduce 3- and 4-channel tapes. To be honest, I've never placed an audio card in the slot three position and tried to align it as I had been warned against it that the software won't handle it. One other point. The 0.150-inch wide Revere/CBS tape cartridge format was designed for 3 CS but was only implemented as a 2 CS format. The centre "guard band" was wide enough for a full-sized track while still maintaining guard bands between it and the outer two tracks. Even today, implementing 3 CS in a program such as Samplitude, while not difficult, is not as convenient as a 2 CS implementation, and while, in theory, WAV files can contain any number of tracks (e.g. Sound Devices's use of up to 8 CH WAV files in the 788), Samplitude splits WAV files larger than two when you attempt to open them. I don't know how other DAW software handles this. I have not looked back since "inventing" the FrankenSony and do all of my 3- and 4-track work using that configuration (much more 4-track than 3-track) unless it's 4-track 1/2-inch in which case I use my APR-16. Cheers, Richard At 05:31 PM 2009-12-29, _newmedia@..._ (mailto:newmedia@...) wrote: >Richard: > >Begs the question -- indeed!! > >While the MCI/Sony experts might insist that the third track on 1/2" tape >was always used for TC, they are flat out wrong. > >For a decade starting the late 50's, the 1/2" 3-track format was standard >in studios for recording music and jingles, as you know. This remained the >case until the 4T machines came in the mid-60's and then the 8T machines >in the late-60's and then only for some projects. > >Three-channel analog tape recording was used in many ways -- most commonly >for recording a widely spaced mics for "stereo" and an extra mic for the >"soloist." In some cases, there were three widely spaced mics and what >could be called 3-channel full ensemble stereo (3CS) was recorded. > >It would make little sense for this to be time-code, since TC was for >sync'ing dialogue to movies and video -- not for musical >production. And most >movie dialogue and sound-effect recording was done on mag-coded film. The >Steenbeck and Kem film sound editors still being used into the 1990's have >multiple plates/heads for film -- not magnetic tape. > >3CS was recorded by Fine Studios for Mercury Living Presence and by >Columbia at their famous 30th Street studio, among others like >Everest. Some of >this material is now available on multi-channel SACD -- straight from the >original 3T 1/2" session masters to DSD. If you haven't heard "Kind of >Blue" in 3CS then you haven't heard Miles Davis. According to the Sony >engineer who re-mastered "Time Out" for SACD, Dave Brubeck broke >into tears when >he heard the playback and said, "That's the way it was supposed to sound." > >Many in the audio business at the time were convinced that 3CS was the way >that music should be played -- including Sol Marantz and Paul Klipsch, to >name a few. The center channel both "solves" the hole-in-the-name a few. Th >of 2-channel stereo and opens up the listening area so that a group can >enjoy the music. The famous JBL Paragon speaker was originally meant to be >the *center* speaker in a 3CS configuration with Klipshorns in the corners. > >Of course, this is largely forgotten history since it never came to pass. >The audio industry killed 3CS for the obvious reason that moving from mono >to 2-channel was all they thought the public would buy. There was also >the problem of 3-channel reproduction by LP. A 3CS consumer tape format >would have been needed. None ever appeared. > >Of course Sony allocated 2x positions for 3T 1/2" heads. There were many >tens-of-thousands of tapes recorded in that format -- indeed most studio >recordings for a decade. How the APR-5003 was supposed to handle a third >audio channel is indeed a puzzle. My guess is that the intent was >to playback >only two of the tracks previously recorded. > >But TIME CODE was not even remotely a part of the story for 1/2" tape. > >Mark Stahlman >New York City > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1842 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:39 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Mark, I spoke with designers at the time and we have one or two people who were involved with the development process on the list. The target was the large market and an upgrade to the MCI JH series. They were interested in the post market as every post suite had an audio recorder in it. Sony could sell the APR into their systems jobs so that was the best source of used machines as they were rarely used in post. They were looking for the machine to be a "Studer Killer" at the price point. While it doesn't kill the mastering recorders, it certainly gives the radio machines a run for their money. I don't think they were talking to Sony Music. These were mostly MCI people, not Sony corporate. But you make your own point. The old Sony studios had Studers (mostly A820s) as you know better than I. And yes, I have only made my FrankenSonys for playback, not record. Cheers, Richard At 06:18 PM 2009-12-29, you wrote: >Richard: > >Perhaps -- but they were Sony and they owned a vast archive of 3T 1/2" >studio tapes. > >Whether it was ever implemented in released firmware, don't you think >someone involved with the design thought that the APR-5000 *could* be used >someday for re-mastering from the Sony/Columbia (or some of their >customer's) >archives? > >As it turned out, Sony had to build a custom machine to handle those tapes >and Everest famously put together a 3T Ampex 300 using MR70 electronics for > their re-mastering of their 3T 1/2" tapes. > >Btw, there's a thread over at the Tape Project forum on what is left of >Sony Studios in NYC with an engineer discussing the 4T conversion of Studer >A820's using outboard Cello electronics. (Yes, I have one of those Audio >Suites.) > > >Sometimes tape machines are used for playback only, ya know. > > >Mark > > >In a message dated 12/29/2009 5:48:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >arclists@... writes: > > > > >Hi, Mark, > >You and Tom Fine have made me well aware of all that you have just >posted, but I do not think the people designing the APR-5000 >recorders in the mid-1980s thought about this wonderful 1950s format >(3T 1/2-inch). It certainly wasn't manifest in the final design as it >appears that through all iterations, the third channel was locked >into timecode only--at least that is my understanding and why I >"invented" the FrankenSony configuration for using two side-by-side >APR-5000s to reproduce 3- and 4-channel tapes. > >To be honest, I've never placed an audio card in the slot three >position and tried to align it as I had been warned against it that >the software won't handle it. > >One other point. The 0.150-inch wide Revere/CBS tape cartridge format >was designed for 3 CS but was only implemented as a 2 CS format. The >centre "guard band" was wide enough for a full-sized track while >still maintaining guard bands between it and the outer two tracks. > >Even today, implementing 3 CS in a program such as Samplitude, while >not difficult, is not as convenient as a 2 CS implementation, and >while, in theory, WAV files can contain any number of tracks (e.g. >Sound Devices's use of up to 8 CH WAV files in the 788), Samplitude >splits WAV files larger than two when you attempt to open them. I >don't know how other DAW software handles this. > >I have not looked back since "inventing" the FrankenSony and do all >of my 3- and 4-track work using that configuration (much more 4-track >than 3-track) unless it's 4-track 1/2-inch in which case I use my APR-16. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 05:31 PM 2009-12-29, _newmedia@..._ (mailto:newmedia@...) >wrote: > >Richard: > > > >Begs the question -- indeed!! > > > >While the MCI/Sony experts might insist that the third track on 1/2" tape > >was always used for TC, they are flat out wrong. > > > >For a decade starting the late 50's, the 1/2" 3-track format was standard > >in studios for recording music and jingles, as you know. This remained the > >case until the 4T machines came in the mid-60's and then the 8T machines > >in the late-60's and then only for some projects. > > > >Three-channel analog tape recording was used in many ways -- most commonly > >for recording a widely spaced mics for "stereo" and an extra mic for the > >"soloist." In some cases, there were three widely spaced mics and what > >could be called 3-channel full ensemble stereo (3CS) was recorded. > > > >It would make little sense for this to be time-code, since TC was for > >sync'ing dialogue to movies and video -- not for musical > >production. And most > >movie dialogue and sound-effect recording was done on mag-coded film. The > >Steenbeck and Kem film sound editors still being used into the 1990's have > >multiple plates/heads for film -- not magnetic tape. > > > >3CS was recorded by Fine Studios for Mercury Living Presence and by > >Columbia at their famous 30th Street studio, among others like > >Everest. Some of > >this material is now available on multi-channel SACD -- straight from the > >original 3T 1/2" session masters to DSD. If you haven't heard "Kind of > >Blue" in 3CS then you haven't heard Miles Davis. According to the Sony > >engineer who re-mastered "Time Out" for SACD, Dave Brubeck broke > >into tears when > >he heard the playback and said, "That's the way it was supposed to sound." > > > >Many in the audio business at the time were convinced that 3CS was the way > >that music should be played -- including Sol Marantz and Paul Klipsch, to > >name a few. The center channel both "solves" the hole-in-the-name a few. >Th > >of 2-channel stereo and opens up the listening area so that a group can > >enjoy the music. The famous JBL Paragon speaker was originally meant to be > >the *center* speaker in a 3CS configuration with Klipshorns in the >corners. > > > >Of course, this is largely forgotten history since it never came to pass. > >The audio industry killed 3CS for the obvious reason that moving from mono > >to 2-channel was all they thought the public would buy. There was also > >the problem of 3-channel reproduction by LP. A 3CS consumer tape format > >would have been needed. None ever appeared. > > > >Of course Sony allocated 2x positions for 3T 1/2" heads. There were many > >tens-of-thousands of tapes recorded in that format -- indeed most studio > >recordings for a decade. How the APR-5003 was supposed to handle a third > >audio channel is indeed a puzzle. My guess is that the intent was > >to playback > >only two of the tracks previously recorded. > > > >But TIME CODE was not even remotely a part of the story for 1/2" tape. > > > >Mark Stahlman > >New York City > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ >(mailto:richard@...) >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: >_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ >(http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1843 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:13 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: I'm with you on this -- since there is/was zero market for 1/2" CTTC playback (i.e. its a format none of us have ever heard of), that certainly couldn't be considered a large opportunity. On the other hand, every post house clearly had to deal with 1/4" CTTC, since the world is filled with Nagra IV-STC machines recording dialogue that needs to be time-code sync'ed. Since there's only one known 3T 1/2" format, one suspects this was considered an opportunity -- but we'll have to leave to those who were involved to explain if it was worth 2 out of 12 positions in the tables. Thanks for the always interesting dialogue! Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/29/2009 7:43:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arclists@... writes: Hi, Mark, I spoke with designers at the time and we have one or two people who were involved with the development process on the list. The target was the large market and an upgrade to the MCI JH series. They were interested in the post market as every post suite had an audio recorder in it. Sony could sell the APR into their systems jobs so that was the best source of used machines as they were rarely used in post. They were looking for the machine to be a "Studer Killer" at the price point. While it doesn't kill the mastering recorders, it certainly gives the radio machines a run for their money. I don't think they were talking to Sony Music. These were mostly MCI people, not Sony corporate. But you make your own point. The old Sony studios had Studers (mostly A820s) as you know better than I. And yes, I have only made my FrankenSonys for playback, not record. Cheers, Richard At 06:18 PM 2009-12-29, you wrote: >Richard: > >Perhaps -- but they were Sony and they owned a vast archive of 3T 1/2" >studio tapes. > >Whether it was ever implemented in released firmware, don't you think >someone involved with the design thought that the APR-5000 *could* be used >someday for re-mastering from the Sony/Columbia (or some of their >customer's) >archives? > >As it turned out, Sony had to build a custom machine to handle those tapes >and Everest famously put together a 3T Ampex 300 using MR70 electronics for > their re-mastering of their 3T 1/2" tapes. > >Btw, there's a thread over at the Tape Project forum on what is left of >Sony Studios in NYC with an engineer discussing the 4T conversion of Studer >A820's using outboard Cello electronics. (Yes, I have one of those Audio >Suites.) > > >Sometimes tape machines are used for playback only, ya know. > > >Mark > > >In a message dated 12/29/2009 5:48:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >_arclists@richardhesarcli_ (mailto:arclists@...) writes: > > > > >Hi, Mark, > >You and Tom Fine have made me well aware of all that you have just >posted, but I do not think the people designing the APR-5000 >recorders in the mid-1980s thought about this wonderful 1950s format >(3T 1/2-inch). It certainly wasn't manifest in the final design as it >appears that through all iterations, the third channel was locked >into timecode only--at least that is my understanding and why I >"invented" the FrankenSony configuration for using two side-by-side >APR-5000s to reproduce 3- and 4-channel tapes. > >To be honest, I've never placed an audio card in the slot three >position and tried to align it as I had been warned against it that >the software won't handle it. > >One other point. The 0.150-inch wide Revere/CBS tape cartridge format >was designed for 3 CS but was only implemented as a 2 CS format. The >centre "guard band" was wide enough for a full-sized track while >still maintaining guard bands between it and the outer two tracks. > >Even today, implementing 3 CS in a program such as Samplitude, while >not difficult, is not as convenient as a 2 CS implementation, and >while, in theory, WAV files can contain any number of tracks (e.g. >Sound Devices's use of up to 8 CH WAV files in the 788), Samplitude >splits WAV files larger than two when you attempt to open them. I >don't know how other DAW software handles this. > >I have not looked back since "inventing" the FrankenSony and do all >of my 3- and 4-track work using that configuration (much more 4-track >than 3-track) unless it's 4-track 1/2-inch in which case I use my APR-16. > >Cheers, > >Richard > >At 05:31 PM 2009-12-29, __newmedia@aol._ne_ (mailto:_newmedia@...) _ (mailto:_newmedia@..._ (mailto:newmedia@...) ) >wrote: > >Richard: > > > >Begs the question -- indeed!! > > > >While the MCI/Sony experts might insist that the third track on 1/2" tape > >was always used for TC, they are flat out wrong. > > > >For a decade starting the late 50's, the 1/2" 3-track format was standard > >in studios for recording music and jingles, as you know. This remained the > >case until the 4T machines came in the mid-60's and then the 8T machines > >in the late-60's and then only for some projects. > > > >Three-channel analog tape recording was used in many ways -- most commonly > >for recording a widely spaced mics for "stereo" and an extra mic for the > >"soloist." In some cases, there were three widely spaced mics and what > >could be called 3-channel full ensemble stereo (3CS) was recorded. > > > >It would make little sense for this to be time-code, since TC was for > >sync'ing dialogue to movies and video -- not for musical > >production. And most > >movie dialogue and sound-effect recording was done on mag-coded film. The > >Steenbeck and Kem film sound editors still being used into the 1990's have > >multiple plates/heads for film -- not magnetic tape. > > > >3CS was recorded by Fine Studios for Mercury Living Presence and by > >Columbia at their famous 30th Street studio, among others like > >Everest. Some of > >this material is now available on multi-channel SACD -- straight from the > >original 3T 1/2" session masters to DSD. If you haven't heard "Kind of > >Blue" in 3CS then you haven't heard Miles Davis. According to the Sony > >engineer who re-mastered "Time Out" for SACD, Dave Brubeck broke > >into tears when > >he heard the playback and said, "That's the way it was supposed to sound." > > > >Many in the audio business at the time were convinced that 3CS was the way > >that music should be played -- including Sol Marantz and Paul Klipsch, to > >name a few. The center channel both "solves" the hole-in-the-name a few. >Th > >of 2-channel stereo and opens up the listening area so that a group can > >enjoy the music. The famous JBL Paragon speaker was originally meant to be > >the *center* speaker in a 3CS configuration with Klipshorns in the >corners. > > > >Of course, this is largely forgotten history since it never came to pass. > >The audio industry killed 3CS for the obvious reason that moving from mono > >to 2-channel was all they thought the public would buy. There was also > >the problem of 3-channel reproduction by LP. A 3CS consumer tape format > >would have been needed. None ever appeared. > > > >Of course Sony allocated 2x positions for 3T 1/2" heads. There were many > >tens-of-thousands of tapes recorded in that format -- indeed most studio > >recordings for a decade. How the APR-5003 was supposed to handle a third > >audio channel is indeed a puzzle. My guess is that the intent was > >to playback > >only two of the tracks previously recorded. > > > >But TIME CODE was not even remotely a part of the story for 1/2" tape. > > > >Mark Stahlman > >New York City > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhesRichar >(mailto:_richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) ) >Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >Detailed contact information: >__http://www.richardhhttp://www.http://wwhttp:_ (http://www.richardhhttp//www.rihttp://www._) >(_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) ) >Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1844 From: Pat Appleson Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:54 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Mark, Man, I'm really enjoying these threads. HOW OLD ARE YOU??? I thought I was the only one who knew/cared about stuff like this! (Grin) As an aside, I was in the fourth grade when CBS announced on a newscast that they were "video tape recording" their shows for the first time in history. I had a little Webcor audio deck and I distinctly remember trying to figure out how they got the video on the tape. I knew nothing about FM at the time, but I did know from editing on my fathers 8mm filmo thingy with the splicer, that you had to have a way to determine start and end of each frame of video. I knew nothing of control track, at that time either. I kept picturing in my mind little frames of video stuck on the tape, being numbered in an ascending order. Fifty years later, we're still using it. Amazing. (grin) I totally agree with you. Besides CTTC or SMPTE time Code wasn't invented till about 1962. I knew it as EEECO time code for NASA and a few years later SMPTE "adopted" it. I've only heard three track half inch a few times. Each time, I was blown away. In the mid eighties, I showed up at MCI for the last time, for some machine repair work. The Japs had just purchased the company. Jeep had a smile on his face, the check had cleared. But I was struck by all the "new" employees running around, I thought, well, the good old days of MCI are gone. Tom Haye and Ted Staros were history. What a couple of great guys and Superior Engineers. About a year or so later, I heard Sony, threw all the MCI parts in the dumpster behind the building. I just shook my head. Happy New Year Pat, former AES Miami Chapter, President in the 70's. Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1845 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:12 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Patrick: Ha! Guess I'm older than I look. As Richard can tell you, I've been deeply interested in acoustic technology (i.e. more than audio) for many years. Partly as an amateur historian, partly as someone convinced that the ear is more important than the eye and partly as a "media ecologist" (i.e. working on how humans are changed by the media they use.) And thanks to eBay, I've probably collected more odd-ball audio/acoustic gear than most people. Who else has two of the original TEF analyzers -- complete with Heyser disks? But most of all, I've been a student of all the great people who have come on the net to share their own experience and knowledge. Richard is a well respected and generous teacher. Fortunately there are many more of them, like Steve Puntillilo, Tom Fine, Larry Miller, Jay McKnight, Scott Dorsey and many more on the Ampex, Sursound and other lists. I'm not an "audiophile" and two-channel stereo has long struck me as a regrettable compromise, partly because it isolates the listener to a one-gallon sweet-spot and partly because it is wrong on the spatial psychoacoustics. If you can't hear it live, music should still be enjoyed by friends. So multi-channel audio has been a particular focus of my inquiry. The history of 3CS caught my attention a few years ago, so I tracked it down. Imagine my surprise when Mark Levinson told me about his early trip to visit Paul Klipsch when he was handed a reprint of the Bell Labs "Periphonics" research. When I arranged to publish a "bootleg" copy on the net, the AES Historical Committee stepped in to post an official copy. We have known since the 1930's that THREE speakers were the minimum needed to reproduce music for a group of people. All the audio greats in the 1950's knew this but few remembered it 50 years later. I'm now working with Robin Miller's 6-channel (10-speaker) HCD 3D system and make my recordings (Ambisonic and otherwise) with the 8-channel Sound Devices 788 recorder. Not bad having an 8T 1" deck in your pocket -- plus time-code! Happy New Year, Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/29/2009 10:54:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, appleson@... writes: Hi Mark, Man, I'm really enjoying these threads. HOW OLD ARE YOU??? I thought I was the only one who knew/cared about stuff like this! (Grin) As an aside, I was in the fourth grade when CBS announced on a newscast that they were "video tape recording" their shows for the first time in history. I had a little Webcor audio deck and I distinctly remember trying to figure out how they got the video on the tape. I knew nothing about FM at the time, but I did know from editing on my fathers 8mm filmo thingy with the splicer, that you had to have a way to determine start and end of each frame of video. I knew nothing of control track, at that time either. I kept picturing in my mind little frames of video stuck on the tape, being numbered in an ascending order. Fifty years later, we're still using it. Amazing. (grin) I totally agree with you. Besides CTTC or SMPTE time Code wasn't invented till about 1962. I knew it as EEECO time code for NASA and a few years later SMPTE "adopted" it. I've only heard three track half inch a few times. Each time, I was blown away. In the mid eighties, I showed up at MCI for the last time, for some machine repair work. The Japs had just purchased the company. Jeep had a smile on his face, the check had cleared. But I was struck by all the "new" employees running around, I thought, well, the good old days of MCI are gone. Tom Haye and Ted Staros were history. What a couple of great guys and Superior Engineers. About a year or so later, I heard Sony, threw all the MCI parts in the dumpster behind the building. I just shook my head. Happy New Year Pat, former AES Miami Chapter, President in the 70's. Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.www email: _appleson@..._ (mailto:appleson@...) Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1846 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:55 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Pat, After getting the Otari documentation from You, I have also seen the 3-track recording, synchronization... etc and wanted to add some points... When I have been in Germany, working in SWF, a local TV station, we have transferred the field recordings on Nagra to "perfo" tape. The recording material 1/4" of Nagra, full-track-mono, did run in synchron with Arriflex at 50Hz for live sound and was transferred to 16mm-magnet-film, identical shape with 16mm color-film, where the 50Hz was recorded orthogonal to head-gap and could not be heard. The PLL of "Klangfilm" captured this 50Hz and recorded the field sound onto magnet-band which was picture synchron of 25-pictures/sec used in European TV with PAL-625-lines. In case of need, most of the old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape equipment were mechanically synchronized via a "clutch" at that time, but most of the new models (new speaks for end of 1960'ies...) did have three audio tracks on each head (?), but only one track was used for TV-applications, as it was mono/one track at that time. I do not know, if the Klangfilm units were obvioulosy prepared for this norm or just having more tracks to be used in case of need. 50Hz, (or also 60Hz probably in USA...) was used only to have sound and film in synchrony and I can remember the first days of SMPTE, (mid of 1970'ies...) which was introduced with BOSCH-MAZ, video recording units, which were still huge, but were said to be modern and small units (!) using 1" tape. The older AMPEX video units were as big as a middle class car (!) having vacuum on head for 2" tape material. Towards 1980, the first portable or "transportable" video cameras were started and they did have the SMPTE codes on video-tapes and the synchronization studios or transferring from 1/4-to-16mm started to diminish from daily life. I do not remember to have seen 3-track recordings, or have heard such material, but I did wonder having seen the old ALTEC or JBL speaker-environment in catalogs covering the wall for to listen. But I personally was involved in some research projects like "stereo-field" with 7x or 11x loudspeakers. All speakers are positioned in front of a wall with identical distance to each other, where the stereo sound will be supplied from left-and-right but travel with a certain delay to the next loudspeaker respectively into the correct direction. In front of the loudspeakers You can hear stereo-sound, wherever You are just staying, as the sound is traveling in the room as "wavefront" and theoretically, You have not sit in the triangle to the R-and-L-speakers of the stereo system. (But You have to ignore the reflections or make Your tests in the acoustic-dead-room. I do remember the first audio synchron tape equipment on the market beginning late 1970'ies, where my first experience was a Telefunken M15A, which did have special heads and recorded SMPTE onto the tape itself and there has been a bunch of boards on rack-mount environment to handle the synchronization and finding the correct location on the tape material. A friend of mine, worked for a while in BBC studios in England mid of 1970'ies told me, that the original recordings of Beatles were made on a Studer J37, having 4x tracks and used mostly for sound-on-sound applications to have 2-tracks stereo at the end. He is therefore in search for an old Studer, but I have mine Telefunken M15A, with butterfly heads for DIN-Stereo, collected before several years via eBay-Germany, which did cost about the same like a Mercedes-280 just before 1980 on the professional-market. I just wanted to add some old experience with synch and tracks... WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: newmedia@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009 13:12 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads Patrick: Ha! Guess I'm older than I look. As Richard can tell you, I've been deeply interested in acoustic technology (i.e. more than audio) for many years. Partly as an amateur historian, partly as someone convinced that the ear is more important than the eye and partly as a "media ecologist" (i.e. working on how humans are changed by the media they use.) And thanks to eBay, I've probably collected more odd-ball audio/acoustic gear than most people. Who else has two of the original TEF analyzers -- complete with Heyser disks? But most of all, I've been a student of all the great people who have come on the net to share their own experience and knowledge. Richard is a well respected and generous teacher. Fortunately there are many more of them, like Steve Puntillilo, Tom Fine, Larry Miller, Jay McKnight, Scott Dorsey and many more on the Ampex, Sursound and other lists. I'm not an "audiophile" and two-channel stereo has long struck me as a regrettable compromise, partly because it isolates the listener to a one-gallon sweet-spot and partly because it is wrong on the spatial psychoacoustics. If you can't hear it live, music should still be enjoyed by friends. So multi-channel audio has been a particular focus of my inquiry. The history of 3CS caught my attention a few years ago, so I tracked it down. Imagine my surprise when Mark Levinson told me about his early trip to visit Paul Klipsch when he was handed a reprint of the Bell Labs "Periphonics" research. When I arranged to publish a "bootleg" copy on the net, the AES Historical Committee stepped in to post an official copy. We have known since the 1930's that THREE speakers were the minimum needed to reproduce music for a group of people. All the audio greats in the 1950's knew this but few remembered it 50 years later. I'm now working with Robin Miller's 6-channel (10-speaker) HCD 3D system and make my recordings (Ambisonic and otherwise) with the 8-channel Sound Devices 788 recorder. Not bad having an 8T 1" deck in your pocket -- plus time-code! Happy New Year, Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/29/2009 10:54:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, appleson@... writes: Hi Mark, Man, I'm really enjoying these threads. HOW OLD ARE YOU??? I thought I was the only one who knew/cared about stuff like this! (Grin) As an aside, I was in the fourth grade when CBS announced on a newscast that they were "video tape recording" their shows for the first time in history. I had a little Webcor audio deck and I distinctly remember trying to figure out how they got the video on the tape. I knew nothing about FM at the time, but I did know from editing on my fathers 8mm filmo thingy with the splicer, that you had to have a way to determine start and end of each frame of video. I knew nothing of control track, at that time either. I kept picturing in my mind little frames of video stuck on the tape, being numbered in an ascending order. Fifty years later, we're still using it. Amazing. (grin) I totally agree with you. Besides CTTC or SMPTE time Code wasn't invented till about 1962. I knew it as EEECO time code for NASA and a few years later SMPTE "adopted" it. I've only heard three track half inch a few times. Each time, I was blown away. In the mid eighties, I showed up at MCI for the last time, for some machine repair work. The Japs had just purchased the company. Jeep had a smile on his face, the check had cleared. But I was struck by all the "new" employees running around, I thought, well, the good old days of MCI are gone. Tom Haye and Ted Staros were history. What a couple of great guys and Superior Engineers. About a year or so later, I heard Sony, threw all the MCI parts in the dumpster behind the building. I just shook my head. Happy New Year Pat, former AES Miami Chapter, President in the 70's. Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.www email: _appleson@..._ (mailto:appleson@...) Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1847 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:54 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Arif, Interesting comments -- I'd like to add two things. The Studer J37 was, as far as I know, one of the first "multi-track" (as in 4) recorder widely sold in Europe. It was made available at least by the early 1960s as Decca records used one in Vienna to record Gotterdammerung (at least) of the Solti/Decca Ring Cycle. They kept the vocals and the orchestra separate, as I understand it, allowing for later re-mix, though they also ran a C37 two-track machine. The J37 was a ONE INCH machine, as I understand it, keeping the rough (minus guard band) ratio of 4 tracks to the inch that we saw in full-track mono and later in half-inch two-track. The U.S. manufacture of 3-track 1/2-inch machines dates to the early-to-mid 1950s with 3CS stereo experimental work being done prior to that on 1/4-inch tape--the format that later became the stereo NAB broadcast cartridge (for North America, at least). Later, (i.e. the late 1960s), four track in North America was provided on 1/2-inch tape with narrower tracks (70 mil) than even NAB stereo (75-82 mil), as compared with the 100 mil tracks of the 3-channel 1/2-inch recorders. Another note of possible interest. I convinced the EBU to re-publish their 1973 survey of tape-film synchronization "standards" and it is quite interesting to see the different attempts that were made to solve this problem. http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3095_tcm6-43440.pdf I have a summary and a few additional comments here: http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/\ synchronization/ Cheers, Richard At 09:55 AM 2009-12-30, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: >Dear Pat, > >After getting the Otari documentation from You, I have also seen the >3-track recording, synchronization... etc and wanted to add some points... > >When I have been in Germany, working in SWF, a local TV station, we >have transferred the field recordings on Nagra to "perfo" tape. The >recording material 1/4" of Nagra, full-track-mono, did run in >synchron with Arriflex at 50Hz for live sound and was transferred to >16mm-magnet-film, identical shape with 16mm color-film, where the >50Hz was recorded orthogonal to head-gap and could not be heard. The >PLL of "Klangfilm" captured this 50Hz and recorded the field sound >onto magnet-band which was picture synchron of 25-pictures/sec used >in European TV with PAL-625-lines. > >In case of need, most of the old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape >equipment were mechanically synchronized via a "clutch" at that >time, but most of the new models (new speaks for end of 1960'ies...) >did have three audio tracks on each head (?), but only one track was >used for TV-applications, as it was mono/one track at that time. I >do not know, if the Klangfilm units were obvioulosy prepared for >this norm or just having more tracks to be used in case of need. > >50Hz, (or also 60Hz probably in USA...) was used only to have sound >and film in synchrony and I can remember the first days of SMPTE, >(mid of 1970'ies...) which was introduced with BOSCH-MAZ, video >recording units, which were still huge, but were said to be modern >and small units (!) using 1" tape. The older AMPEX video units were >as big as a middle class car (!) having vacuum on head for 2" tape material. > >Towards 1980, the first portable or "transportable" video cameras >were started and they did have the SMPTE codes on video-tapes and >the synchronization studios or transferring from 1/4-to-16mm started >to diminish from daily life. > >I do not remember to have seen 3-track recordings, or have heard >such material, but I did wonder having seen the old ALTEC or JBL >speaker-environment in catalogs covering the wall for to listen. But >I personally was involved in some research projects like >"stereo-field" with 7x or 11x loudspeakers. All speakers are >positioned in front of a wall with identical distance to each other, >where the stereo sound will be supplied from left-and-right but >travel with a certain delay to the next loudspeaker respectively >into the correct direction. In front of the loudspeakers You can >hear stereo-sound, wherever You are just staying, as the sound is >traveling in the room as "wavefront" and theoretically, You have not >sit in the triangle to the R-and-L-speakers of the stereo system. >(But You have to ignore the reflections or make Your tests in the >acoustic-dead-room. > >I do remember the first audio synchron tape equipment on the market >beginning late 1970'ies, where my first experience was a Telefunken >M15A, which did have special heads and recorded SMPTE onto the tape >itself and there has been a bunch of boards on rack-mount >environment to handle the synchronization and finding the correct >location on the tape material. > >A friend of mine, worked for a while in BBC studios in England mid >of 1970'ies told me, that the original recordings of Beatles were >made on a Studer J37, having 4x tracks and used mostly for >sound-on-sound applications to have 2-tracks stereo at the end. He >is therefore in search for an old Studer, but I have mine Telefunken >M15A, with butterfly heads for DIN-Stereo, collected before several >years via eBay-Germany, which did cost about the same like a >Mercedes-280 just before 1980 on the professional-market. > >I just wanted to add some old experience with synch and tracks... > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: newmedia@... > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009 13:12 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads > > > > Patrick: > > Ha! Guess I'm older than I look. > > As Richard can tell you, I've been deeply interested in acoustic > technology > (i.e. more than audio) for many years. Partly as an amateur historian, > partly as someone convinced that the ear is more important than > the eye and > partly as a "media ecologist" (i.e. working on how humans are changed by > the media they use.) > > And thanks to eBay, I've probably collected more odd-ball audio/acoustic > gear than most people. Who else has two of the original TEF analyzers -- > complete with Heyser disks? > > But most of all, I've been a student of all the great people who have come > on the net to share their own experience and knowledge. Richard is a well > respected and generous teacher. Fortunately there are many more of them, > like Steve Puntillilo, Tom Fine, Larry Miller, Jay McKnight, Scott Dorsey > and many more on the Ampex, Sursound and other lists. > > I'm not an "audiophile" and two-channel stereo has long struck me as a > regrettable compromise, partly because it isolates the listener > to a one-gallon > sweet-spot and partly because it is wrong on the spatial psychoacoustics. > If you can't hear it live, music should still be enjoyed by friends. So > multi-channel audio has been a particular focus of my inquiry. > > The history of 3CS caught my attention a few years ago, so I tracked it > down. Imagine my surprise when Mark Levinson told me about his > early trip to > visit Paul Klipsch when he was handed a reprint of the Bell Labs > "Periphonics" research. When I arranged to publish a "bootleg" > copy on the net, the > AES Historical Committee stepped in to post an official copy. We have > known since the 1930's that THREE speakers were the minimum needed to > reproduce music for a group of people. All the audio greats in > the 1950's knew > this but few remembered it 50 years later. > > I'm now working with Robin Miller's 6-channel (10-speaker) HCD 3D system > and make my recordings (Ambisonic and otherwise) with the 8-channel Sound > Devices 788 recorder. Not bad having an 8T 1" deck in your pocket -- plus > time-code! > > Happy New Year, > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > In a message dated 12/29/2009 10:54:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > appleson@... writes: > > Hi Mark, > > Man, I'm really enjoying these threads. HOW OLD ARE YOU??? I > thought I was the only one who knew/cared about stuff like this! (Grin) > > As an aside, I was in the fourth grade when CBS announced on a > newscast that they were "video tape recording" their shows for the > first time in history. I had a little Webcor audio deck and I > distinctly remember trying to figure out how they got the video on > the tape. I knew nothing about FM at the time, but I did know from > editing on my fathers 8mm filmo thingy with the splicer, that you had > to have a way to determine start and end of each frame of video. I > knew nothing of control track, at that time either. I kept picturing > in my mind little frames of video stuck on the tape, being numbered > in an ascending order. Fifty years later, we're still using it. > Amazing. (grin) > > I totally agree with you. Besides CTTC or SMPTE time Code wasn't > invented till about 1962. I knew it as EEECO time code for NASA and > a few years later SMPTE "adopted" it. > > I've only heard three track half inch a few times. Each time, I was blown > away. > > In the mid eighties, I showed up at MCI for the last time, for some > machine repair work. The Japs had just purchased the company. > Jeep had a smile on his face, the check had cleared. But I was > struck by all the "new" employees running around, I thought, well, > the good old days of MCI are gone. Tom Haye and Ted Staros were > history. What a couple of great guys and Superior Engineers. About a > year or so later, I heard Sony, threw all the MCI parts in the > dumpster behind the building. > I just shook my head. > > Happy New Year > Pat, former AES Miami Chapter, President in the 70's. > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. > Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. > 2359 Highway 70, SE > Suite 102 > Hickory, NC 28602 > 828 465-5500 or > 828-461-3003 > www.appleson.www > email: _appleson@..._ (mailto:appleson@...) > Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1848 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:49 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Arfy & Mark, Hey, is this Internet great, or what? I wish it was around in the late 50's. You guys are both outstanding tech guru's. (grin) Let me respond (as if you really cared) on each thought below: At 09:55 AM 12/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Dear Pat, > >After getting the Otari documentation from You, I have also seen the >3-track recording, synchronization... etc and wanted to add some points... > >When I have been in Germany, working in SWF, a local TV station, we >have transferred the field recordings on Nagra to "perfo" tape. The >recording material 1/4" of Nagra, full-track-mono, did run in >synchron with Arriflex at 50Hz for live sound and was transferred to >16mm-magnet-film, identical shape with 16mm color-film, where the >50Hz was recorded orthogonal to head-gap and could not be heard. The >PLL of "Klangfilm" captured this 50Hz and recorded the field sound >onto magnet-band which was picture synchron of 25-pictures/sec used >in European TV with PAL-625-lines. > >In case of need, most of the old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape >equipment were mechanically synchronized via a "clutch" at that >time, but most of the new models (new speaks for end of 1960'ies...) >did have three audio tracks on each head (?), but only one track was >used for TV-applications, as it was mono/one track at that time. I >do not know, if the Klangfilm units were obvioulosy prepared for >this norm or just having more tracks to be used in case of need. pat: I think where most readers get confused is that there are two kinds of TC machines were are talking about. The original thread, I think, was asking about head stacks for three channel half inch analog recording. I was too young to be there in the late 50's and early sixties, but I've been told before 8 track on One Inch became popular (Bobby Darin's Splish Splash) that they would use the third track to put the vocal on and re-do or punch in on it, till the producer liked it. This is a little different from doing a three channel spread recording, which could also be done. Nowhere at this time, was there any type of time code. Yes, you could sync two machines together with a common source driving the capstans from a big amp at 60Hz. But, it don't think it was done much. Then, you had the motion picture problem of conforming the stuff that was recorded on a Nagra, the famous darling of the industry. And that can become confusing. Later on, the 2 track with center track time code became popular and helped with the resolving/conforming issue. Then there was the question of "well, I've got a four track half inch machine, let's put TC on Track 4 as see what happens". Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've been there, done that. So this can become very confusing to a guy that doesn't do it everyday, or who unlike us, hasn't sold his soul for Rock & Roll. (grin) (How bout that Sound Devices 788. A real 8 track. Is that an 8 Track in your pocket? Or are you just glad to see me. Is that a killer or what? I wish I'd had it and 8 wireless mic's when I was a kid, doing "Church of the Week" every Sunday morning for the local Radio Station.) snip.....old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape equipment.....snip Is Klangfilm a proper name like, Magna-Tech or Ranger Tone? or does is mean generic Sproketed Mag Dubbers, etc.? I forget. >50Hz, (or also 60Hz probably in USA...) was used only to have sound >and film in synchrony and I can remember the first days of SMPTE, >(mid of 1970'ies...) which was introduced with BOSCH-MAZ, video >recording units, which were still huge, but were said to be modern >and small units (!) using 1" tape. The older AMPEX video units were >as big as a middle class car (!) having vacuum on head for 2" tape material. Yes, I remember in the 60's the firm called Electronic Engineering & Equipment Company or EEECO. That was adopted to be known as SMPTE TC. With a couple of changes, I believe. At this time it was all Longitudinal. VITC came later. And the big Ampex and RCA 2" quads, didn't have color framing and when they did, it didn't work too well. I remember spending many hours as a client at a major post house, circa 1973, at $300 per hour. Every edit we'd make, you would have to play it back and watch the WFM to see if it "whipped". If it did, the editor would stand up, walk over to the rec machine and flip a toggle switch that their engineering dept. had installed. It would jog the next edit up one complete field, I believe. Don't hold me to that, but, it would do something so that the color frame on the second pass, would not show a whip. This was a great time waster and profit center for the post house. After a couple of these "sessions". I told myself, when I get rich, I'm gonna have my own post house. I didn't get rich, but many years later, we went video. It think it was 1989. Computers started to take over. >Towards 1980, the first portable or "transportable" video cameras >were started and they did have the SMPTE codes on video-tapes and >the synchronization studios or transferring from 1/4-to-16mm started >to diminish from daily life. > >I do not remember to have seen 3-track recordings, or have heard >such material, but I did wonder having seen the old ALTEC or JBL >speaker-environment in catalogs covering the wall for to listen. But >I personally was involved in some research projects like >"stereo-field" with 7x or 11x loudspeakers. All speakers are >positioned in front of a wall with identical distance to each other, >where the stereo sound will be supplied from left-and-right but >travel with a certain delay to the next loudspeaker respectively >into the correct direction. In front of the loudspeakers You can >hear stereo-sound, wherever You are just staying, as the sound is >traveling in the room as "wavefront" and theoretically, You have not >sit in the triangle to the R-and-L-speakers of the stereo system. >(But You have to ignore the reflections or make Your tests in the >acoustic-dead-room. > >I do remember the first audio synchron tape equipment on the market >beginning late 1970'ies, where my first experience was a Telefunken >M15A, which did have special heads and recorded SMPTE onto the tape >itself and there has been a bunch of boards on rack-mount >environment to handle the synchronization and finding the correct >location on the tape material. > >A friend of mine, worked for a while in BBC studios in England mid >of 1970'ies told me, that the original recordings of Beatles were >made on a Studer J37, having 4x tracks and used mostly for >sound-on-sound applications to have 2-tracks stereo at the end. He >is therefore in search for an old Studer, but I have mine Telefunken >M15A, with butterfly heads for DIN-Stereo, collected before several >years via eBay-Germany, which did cost about the same like a >Mercedes-280 just before 1980 on the professional-market. > >I just wanted to add some old experience with synch and tracks... > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL I'd love to hear your "stereofield" multi loudspeaker set up. It must be great. and Mark, I enjoyed what you had to say too. I have to agree that none of us here are "audiophiles". We are way beyond that. I call 'em "Hard Core Bedwetters". (grin). Who mentioned the JBL Paragon? Oh BTW, I've read the Perifonics piece too. Wasn't Paul Klipsch a cool guy? I met him only once, when I was a little kid, probably about 22years old. I was in awe. So all you gotta do is downgrade to become an "audiophile". (It reminds me of the SNL sketch... "Ladies, lower your standards:...) It's easy, sit down in front of a Paragon with a fifth of Jack. Play you favorite stuff, have a drink. Buy the third drink, you have become an "audiophile". Doesn't the timing errors between transducers go away? Doesn't the MF JBL Horn start sounding like a phenolic diaphragm mounted on six small Mid Range Speakers. Wow, I don't have to spend $150K on a pair of stinkin' Quested's, that I can't lift. Just have a couple of drinks. And look at all the money I've saved!! (grin). Okay, I'm out of material, plus I've got three spots sitting here to be done, for a local car dealer. Happy New Year! Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1849 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:27 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Richard, Wow, those are two great sources. And a walk down memory lane. Your web site is very impressive, I've got to poke around on it some more. (grin) All the best for the New Year!! pat >http://www.ebu.ch/\ CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3095_tcm6-43440.pdf > >I have a summary and a few additional comments here: > >http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-\ tapes/analog-audio/synchronization/ > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1850 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:40 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads richardlhess Offline Send Email Thanks, Pat! It was interesting, someone sent me a bad scan of a bad fax of this document and I then went searching on the EBU site where they have their tech standards available for free. I was apparently the first person to ask for it. A few weeks later, it appeared. I was really quite impressed. I keep sending people to look at that page so they at least get some hits on it to "feel good" about scanning and OCRing it. By the way, you and my friend Don Norwood ought to get together. He's in Hickory as well. Happy New Year! Cheers, Richard At 03:27 PM 2009-12-30, you wrote: >Hi Richard, > >Wow, those are two great sources. And a walk down memory lane. > >Your web site is very impressive, I've got to poke around on it some >more. (grin) > >All the best for the New Year!! >pat > > > >http:/ > /www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3095_tcm6-43440.pdf > > > >I have a summary and a few additional comments here: > > > > /analog-audio/synchronization/>http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-med\ ia/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/synchronization/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1851 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:21 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads radsimple Offline Send Email Pat: HA! You NAILED it -- on multiple levels! I suspect that the current generation of "audiophools" are more likely to light up with another bong hit instead of a Scotch but, hey, it's still the same story. Robin Miller's HSD 3D is his patent-pending combination of Ambisonics (i.e. 4 channels convolved to a 4-speaker horizontal square plus 4-speaker vertical square) that gives you fabulous 3D spatial imaging (yes, with height) with Ambiophonics (i.e. 2 channels of cross-talk canceled "stereo" with the speakers real close together) that gives you fabulous frontal stage performance. _http://www.filmaker.com/surround.htm_ (http://www.filmaker.com/surround.htm) It's the killer-app for authentic surround sound and hopefully I'll be able to show it to you in NYC before long -- if you ever get this way. Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 12/30/2009 4:51:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, appleson@... writes: Hi Richard, Wow, those are two great sources. And a walk down memory lane. Your web site is very impressive, I've got to poke around on it some more. (grin) All the best for the New Year!! pat ><_http://www.ebu.http://www.ebhttp://www.http://www.http://ww_ (http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3095_tcm6-43440.pdf) >_http://www.ebu.http://www.ebhttp://www.http://www.http://ww_ (http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_doc_t3095_tcm6-43440.pdf) > >I have a summary and a few additional comments here: > ><_http://richardhess.http://richttp://richardhehttp://richardhehttp://richa rhttp://richardhehttp:/_ (http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio\ /synchronization/) >_http://richardhess.http://richttp://richardhehttp://richardhehttp://richarhttp\ ://richardhehttp:/_ (http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio /synchronization/) > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.www email: _appleson@..._ (mailto:appleson@...) Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1852 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:37 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Mark, 'You 'Da Man!!!!!!!!! And, I do, feel your pain. My semi, retired sales manager in Fort Lauderdale, has been known, on occasion, to introduce me to prospective clients, "as the only guy who wasn't stoned at Woodstock". (which is true. At least I was there). You know back in '78, I think it was at the AES in LA, but might have been NYC. There was a demo of some kind of process with a "Sonic" somewhere in the name. But, like your description, it also included height, which I thought was cool. But the coolest thing was their demo. The music I don't remember, but I do remember they had a fly buzzing around the room. They'd pan it to the left spk, then to the right. but then to the middle and up in the frickin' air flying around and behind your head. I still remember it. Speaking of tape recorders. Have you ever met the late Jack McMullen? We had the pleasure of chatting with him for over an hour on the floor of the AES in LA, 1977 or 78. He had his original Magnetophones he "borrowed" from the NAZI's in WWII, on display. What a sharp and funny guy he was. Thanks for the invite, I'm up there from time to time. I'll make sure to let you know. Plus I've got a guy who knows his way around, pitching me to get back on the air and do afternoons at WCBS-FM. Today, when Couzin' Brucie gets excited, it sounds like he's got loose dentures. Anyway, I rather see you than goto Mama Leone's and wait for a table with the tourists. Actually, we've been talking about it. Because you can't get a good pastrami sandwich within 500 miles of Charlotte. I'm Fedxing stuff up from the Epicure and Publix on South Beach. (grin) I'll also take a look at all those links you added. Thanks. Have a Happy New Year. Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1853 From: Pat Appleson Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:42 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Richard, I downloaded a copy. I've just did a speed read. Gonna go into detail over the weekend. I've forgot about how many formats there were. Kind of like software developers today. Everyone's got a better idea. I can still hear Ranger Tone ringing in my ears. Please have Mr. Norwood ping me. Is he in the biz? Small world. Again, Richard, Have a wonderful new year. Warmest personal regards pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1854 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 6:40 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Pat, The last years of my study, I have been working in the electro-acustics section of the university and the "stereo-field-project" was originally from BRAUN and I have been involved and designed the hardware and made the alignments for timing etc. The company did have some nice audio equipment at that time and wanted to expand an old project of electrostatic loudspeakers and wanted to sell for example not two loudspeakers and one amplifier for a stereo system, but suddenly 7x or 11x units and related quantity of amplifiers... A similar approach with time delay and several small loudspeakers was also a special announcement system in a very long but not very wide and reverberant factory-hall with environment noise, where You will built up again a wavefront, wandering from one end of the hall to the other and You delay the audio to each speaker with the speed of sound in the air (something 300m/s) and all the small loudspeakers will show to the direction of the end of the room and everybody at every location do hear the same phase and can understand the wordings. This experiment was especially thought for the airports, but today, there are other systems to make clear announcement on big areas with reflective ground etc... As You will know, everything at that time was pure "hardware" and all the boards have to be made and parts to be soldered and also the measuring units were to be designed and we did also start another project to make computerized terz-analysis on a video screen for the stereo field and two years later an identical real time spectrum analyzer was on the market from Bruel-Kjaer... Klangfilm... was a section or daughter company of SIEMENS and they did make movie equipment and also environment to be used for synchron-studios. And I do have also a small remark for the word "audiophile"... Since my childhood, I have played different instruments and think, that I have still a "musical trained" ear. I did always like to hear to the music and as You can imagine, we started to built our loudspeakers and amplifiers as DIY and within the years You do reach "better" units in accordance to Your financial level . In a professional world of studio, there are other criteria's valid and within the years of being technician, You believe sometimes more in what You "measure" than what You 'hear" and I do not believe that the high cost of audiophile equipment will bring more than the units, which are used while producing. (although... there are of course sometimes details, where You can rely on Your hears more than the "measuring" equipment... For example, I do align my reels still for minimum of modulation noise at 7-8Hz and rely on my ears, where the frequency curve is not linear up to 20kHz but, You have a far better and noise-free recording... ) Therefore, sitting in front of loudspeakers and enjoying the media is more important than the brand of the loudspeakers or amplifier, when they are in somehow acceptable level of equipment. And... I do not think, that the people were too wrong before 20 years when the good Hi-Fi units were built, which is enough for human ear, as is not a "measuring equipment" but a subjective "hearing equipment" without absolute memory. A still think, that a human ear cannot judge the difference of 1000.-USD amplifier and 20.-kUSD amplifier or Loudspeakers, without having seen the brand label (!) if the units are colorless and neutral audio transmitters, unless You will make the comparison in the same time while switching from A-to-B of the units. In my opinion, there should be still not much difference to hear between an old Garrard 401 and SME tonearm with well balanced and suitable Shure pick-up and new plexiglas monster turntables, which are trying to reach the 10.-kUSD levels. If You will know the way how the recorded material was carried onto the vinyl, with related Studer reels and Neumann cutting heads and with all problems of pressing from the matrix to the end product. I also wonder, how people can be so happy hearing all the cracks and hiss of old records with their expensive turntables instead of CD's, which offers acceptable level of clean and noise-free musical information. BTW... I did not mix up the 3-channel recording and synchronization, although it can be seen in that way... I did want to add that Klangfilm units did have 3x audio channels and how so called "pilot" system for synchronization of picture and audio was used. I have also recorded before years "MIDI" signals on the 8.th channel of Tascam-reels to synchronize computer and audio and later TASCAM DTRS with TASCAM ATR-60 with central time-code-track. (I have also APR5003, since several months, which obviously brought me to this group... ) I will wish to all people in this group a nice and prosperous new year and hope that every non harmonic issues remained in the passed year. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Appleson To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009 20:49 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads Arfy & Mark, Hey, is this Internet great, or what? I wish it was around in the late 50's. You guys are both outstanding tech guru's. (grin) Let me respond (as if you really cared) on each thought below: At 09:55 AM 12/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Dear Pat, > >After getting the Otari documentation from You, I have also seen the >3-track recording, synchronization... etc and wanted to add some points... > >When I have been in Germany, working in SWF, a local TV station, we >have transferred the field recordings on Nagra to "perfo" tape. The >recording material 1/4" of Nagra, full-track-mono, did run in >synchron with Arriflex at 50Hz for live sound and was transferred to >16mm-magnet-film, identical shape with 16mm color-film, where the >50Hz was recorded orthogonal to head-gap and could not be heard. The >PLL of "Klangfilm" captured this 50Hz and recorded the field sound >onto magnet-band which was picture synchron of 25-pictures/sec used >in European TV with PAL-625-lines. > >In case of need, most of the old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape >equipment were mechanically synchronized via a "clutch" at that >time, but most of the new models (new speaks for end of 1960'ies...) >did have three audio tracks on each head (?), but only one track was >used for TV-applications, as it was mono/one track at that time. I >do not know, if the Klangfilm units were obvioulosy prepared for >this norm or just having more tracks to be used in case of need. pat: I think where most readers get confused is that there are two kinds of TC machines were are talking about. The original thread, I think, was asking about head stacks for three channel half inch analog recording. I was too young to be there in the late 50's and early sixties, but I've been told before 8 track on One Inch became popular (Bobby Darin's Splish Splash) that they would use the third track to put the vocal on and re-do or punch in on it, till the producer liked it. This is a little different from doing a three channel spread recording, which could also be done. Nowhere at this time, was there any type of time code. Yes, you could sync two machines together with a common source driving the capstans from a big amp at 60Hz. But, it don't think it was done much. Then, you had the motion picture problem of conforming the stuff that was recorded on a Nagra, the famous darling of the industry. And that can become confusing. Later on, the 2 track with center track time code became popular and helped with the resolving/conforming issue. Then there was the question of "well, I've got a four track half inch machine, let's put TC on Track 4 as see what happens". Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've been there, done that. So this can become very confusing to a guy that doesn't do it everyday, or who unlike us, hasn't sold his soul for Rock & Roll. (grin) (How bout that Sound Devices 788. A real 8 track. Is that an 8 Track in your pocket? Or are you just glad to see me. Is that a killer or what? I wish I'd had it and 8 wireless mic's when I was a kid, doing "Church of the Week" every Sunday morning for the local Radio Station.) snip.....old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape equipment.....snip Is Klangfilm a proper name like, Magna-Tech or Ranger Tone? or does is mean generic Sproketed Mag Dubbers, etc.? I forget. >50Hz, (or also 60Hz probably in USA...) was used only to have sound >and film in synchrony and I can remember the first days of SMPTE, >(mid of 1970'ies...) which was introduced with BOSCH-MAZ, video >recording units, which were still huge, but were said to be modern >and small units (!) using 1" tape. The older AMPEX video units were >as big as a middle class car (!) having vacuum on head for 2" tape material. Yes, I remember in the 60's the firm called Electronic Engineering & Equipment Company or EEECO. That was adopted to be known as SMPTE TC. With a couple of changes, I believe. At this time it was all Longitudinal. VITC came later. And the big Ampex and RCA 2" quads, didn't have color framing and when they did, it didn't work too well. I remember spending many hours as a client at a major post house, circa 1973, at $300 per hour. Every edit we'd make, you would have to play it back and watch the WFM to see if it "whipped". If it did, the editor would stand up, walk over to the rec machine and flip a toggle switch that their engineering dept. had installed. It would jog the next edit up one complete field, I believe. Don't hold me to that, but, it would do something so that the color frame on the second pass, would not show a whip. This was a great time waster and profit center for the post house. After a couple of these "sessions". I told myself, when I get rich, I'm gonna have my own post house. I didn't get rich, but many years later, we went video. It think it was 1989. Computers started to take over. >Towards 1980, the first portable or "transportable" video cameras >were started and they did have the SMPTE codes on video-tapes and >the synchronization studios or transferring from 1/4-to-16mm started >to diminish from daily life. > >I do not remember to have seen 3-track recordings, or have heard >such material, but I did wonder having seen the old ALTEC or JBL >speaker-environment in catalogs covering the wall for to listen. But >I personally was involved in some research projects like >"stereo-field" with 7x or 11x loudspeakers. All speakers are >positioned in front of a wall with identical distance to each other, >where the stereo sound will be supplied from left-and-right but >travel with a certain delay to the next loudspeaker respectively >into the correct direction. In front of the loudspeakers You can >hear stereo-sound, wherever You are just staying, as the sound is >traveling in the room as "wavefront" and theoretically, You have not >sit in the triangle to the R-and-L-speakers of the stereo system. >(But You have to ignore the reflections or make Your tests in the >acoustic-dead-room. > >I do remember the first audio synchron tape equipment on the market >beginning late 1970'ies, where my first experience was a Telefunken >M15A, which did have special heads and recorded SMPTE onto the tape >itself and there has been a bunch of boards on rack-mount >environment to handle the synchronization and finding the correct >location on the tape material. > >A friend of mine, worked for a while in BBC studios in England mid >of 1970'ies told me, that the original recordings of Beatles were >made on a Studer J37, having 4x tracks and used mostly for >sound-on-sound applications to have 2-tracks stereo at the end. He >is therefore in search for an old Studer, but I have mine Telefunken >M15A, with butterfly heads for DIN-Stereo, collected before several >years via eBay-Germany, which did cost about the same like a >Mercedes-280 just before 1980 on the professional-market. > >I just wanted to add some old experience with synch and tracks... > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL I'd love to hear your "stereofield" multi loudspeaker set up. It must be great. and Mark, I enjoyed what you had to say too. I have to agree that none of us here are "audiophiles". We are way beyond that. I call 'em "Hard Core Bedwetters". (grin). Who mentioned the JBL Paragon? Oh BTW, I've read the Perifonics piece too. Wasn't Paul Klipsch a cool guy? I met him only once, when I was a little kid, probably about 22years old. I was in awe. So all you gotta do is downgrade to become an "audiophile". (It reminds me of the SNL sketch... "Ladies, lower your standards:...) It's easy, sit down in front of a Paragon with a fifth of Jack. Play you favorite stuff, have a drink. Buy the third drink, you have become an "audiophile". Doesn't the timing errors between transducers go away? Doesn't the MF JBL Horn start sounding like a phenolic diaphragm mounted on six small Mid Range Speakers. Wow, I don't have to spend $150K on a pair of stinkin' Quested's, that I can't lift. Just have a couple of drinks. And look at all the money I've saved!! (grin). Okay, I'm out of material, plus I've got three spots sitting here to be done, for a local car dealer. Happy New Year! Best Regards Pat Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1855 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 2:18 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Arfy, Happy New Year!!! Hey, I have to say that was a great letter. I agree with everything you say. Specially the $1000 or $20K power amp. People that have heard my big JBL system, even guys that own the same model, say it sounds better than their's. I think one "secret weapon" that is forgotten about, that I use, is a monster 20kVA UPS of ferro resonant transformer design. It bucks up the AC Mains to 120 Vac regardless of what kind of bass notes the amp is putting out. Therefore, the amps internal power supply can stay full of juice. Now, all my power amps use linear supplies, but even the ones with the goofy, "you'll never repair it if it goes bad" switching supplies, seem to sound better. You be the judge. (grin) And those $10k turntables are a joke. Most of them don't have the vibration damping design of the volcanic glass base of the old Matsushita Panasonic Technics SP-10 Mk II turntable systems. I've got two of them, I purchased them in 1978 for about $3K. They are still fabulous. And you can go zero to 45 rpm in one half an inch. (I'm an old DiscJockey) Oh yes, no rumble. I mean, it's so far down there, you hear the sides of the grooves rubbing way before any rumble gets on your nerves. It's something like 80db down. And you are correct pointing out that the cutting technology was hit and miss. This is where a Human, not a computer, has to listen to the results. Plus, it was in manufacturing that really made the vinyl sound. The length of time the vinyl cooked in the press was most important, even if you were using re-grind in your pellet batch. The problem, as you know was, if you could shave off three seconds in every pressing you could press more product per hour, per number of presses in the plant. On a hit record, the record companies would use more that one pressing plant. They'd press 24 hours around the clock, so three seconds was a big deal. Clicks and pops, they don't matter, it's an ____________ record! (fill in your favorite artist, Elvis, Billy Joel, etc). Also, the way the master was cut, the Mother was made, the Stamper was made. Everything contributed to the "sound" of vinyl. Thanks for filling me in on KlangFilm. Most interesting. If you're planning to attend the NAB convention in Vegas in April. Please let me know, we must hit the Buffet at Bellagio. (yum) Best Regards Pat At 06:40 AM 1/7/2010, you wrote: > > >Dear Pat, > >The last years of my study, I have been working >in the electro-acustics section of the >university and the "stereo-field-project" was >originally from BRAUN and I have been involved >and designed the hardware and made the >alignments for timing etc. The company did have >some nice audio equipment at that time and >wanted to expand an old project of electrostatic >loudspeakers and wanted to sell for example not >two loudspeakers and one amplifier for a stereo >system, but suddenly 7x or 11x units and related quantity of amplifiers... > >A similar approach with time delay and several >small loudspeakers was also a special >announcement system in a very long but not very >wide and reverberant factory-hall with >environment noise, where You will built up again >a wavefront, wandering from one end of the hall >to the other and You delay the audio to each >speaker with the speed of sound in the air >(something 300m/s) and all the small >loudspeakers will show to the direction of the >end of the room and everybody at every location >do hear the same phase and can understand the >wordings. This experiment was especially thought >for the airports, but today, there are other >systems to make clear announcement on big areas with reflective ground etc... > >As You will know, everything at that time was >pure "hardware" and all the boards have to be >made and parts to be soldered and also the >measuring units were to be designed and we did >also start another project to make computerized >terz-analysis on a video screen for the stereo >field and two years later an identical real time >spectrum analyzer was on the market from Bruel-Kjaer... > >Klangfilm... was a section or daughter company >of SIEMENS and they did make movie equipment and >also environment to be used for synchron-studios. > >And I do have also a small remark for the word "audiophile"... > >Since my childhood, I have played different >instruments and think, that I have still a >"musical trained" ear. I did always like to hear >to the music and as You can imagine, we started >to built our loudspeakers and amplifiers as DIY >and within the years You do reach "better" units >in accordance to Your financial level . In a >professional world of studio, there are other >criteria's valid and within the years of being >technician, You believe sometimes more in what >You "measure" than what You 'hear" and I do not >believe that the high cost of audiophile >equipment will bring more than the units, which >are used while producing. (although... there are >of course sometimes details, where You can rely >on Your hears more than the "measuring" >equipment... For example, I do align my reels >still for minimum of modulation noise at 7-8Hz >and rely on my ears, where the frequency curve >is not linear up to 20kHz but, You have a far >better and noise-free recording... ) > >Therefore, sitting in front of loudspeakers and >enjoying the media is more important than the >brand of the loudspeakers or amplifier, when >they are in somehow acceptable level of >equipment. And... I do not think, that the >people were too wrong before 20 years when the >good Hi-Fi units were built, which is enough for >human ear, as is not a "measuring equipment" but >a subjective "hearing equipment" without >absolute memory. A still think, that a human ear >cannot judge the difference of 1000.-USD >amplifier and 20.-kUSD amplifier or >Loudspeakers, without having seen the brand >label (!) if the units are colorless and neutral >audio transmitters, unless You will make the >comparison in the same time while switching from A-to-B of the units. > >In my opinion, there should be still not much >difference to hear between an old Garrard 401 >and SME tonearm with well balanced and suitable >Shure pick-up and new plexiglas monster >turntables, which are trying to reach the >10.-kUSD levels. If You will know the way how >the recorded material was carried onto the >vinyl, with related Studer reels and Neumann >cutting heads and with all problems of pressing >from the matrix to the end product. > >I also wonder, how people can be so happy >hearing all the cracks and hiss of old records >with their expensive turntables instead of CD's, >which offers acceptable level of clean and noise-free musical information. > >BTW... I did not mix up the 3-channel recording >and synchronization, although it can be seen in >that way... I did want to add that Klangfilm >units did have 3x audio channels and how so >called "pilot" system for synchronization of picture and audio was used. > >I have also recorded before years "MIDI" signals >on the 8.th channel of Tascam-reels to >synchronize computer and audio and later TASCAM >DTRS with TASCAM ATR-60 with central >time-code-track. (I have also APR5003, since >several months, which obviously brought me to this group... ) > >I will wish to all people in this group a nice >and prosperous new year and hope that every non >harmonic issues remained in the passed year. > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Pat Appleson >To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009 20:49 >Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" Time Code Heads > >Arfy & Mark, > >Hey, is this Internet great, or what? I wish it was around in the >late 50's. You guys are both outstanding tech guru's. (grin) > >Let me respond (as if you really cared) on each thought below: > >At 09:55 AM 12/30/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Dear Pat, > > > >After getting the Otari documentation from You, I have also seen the > >3-track recording, synchronization... etc and wanted to add some points... > > > >When I have been in Germany, working in SWF, a local TV station, we > >have transferred the field recordings on Nagra to "perfo" tape. The > >recording material 1/4" of Nagra, full-track-mono, did run in > >synchron with Arriflex at 50Hz for live sound and was transferred to > >16mm-magnet-film, identical shape with 16mm color-film, where the > >50Hz was recorded orthogonal to head-gap and could not be heard. The > >PLL of "Klangfilm" captured this 50Hz and recorded the field sound > >onto magnet-band which was picture synchron of 25-pictures/sec used > >in European TV with PAL-625-lines. > > > >In case of need, most of the old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape > >equipment were mechanically synchronized via a "clutch" at that > >time, but most of the new models (new speaks for end of 1960'ies...) > >did have three audio tracks on each head (?), but only one track was > >used for TV-applications, as it was mono/one track at that time. I > >do not know, if the Klangfilm units were obvioulosy prepared for > >this norm or just having more tracks to be used in case of need. >pat: >I think where most readers get confused is that there are two kinds >of TC machines were are talking about. The original thread, I think, >was asking about head stacks for three channel half inch analog >recording. I was too young to be there in the late 50's and early >sixties, but I've been told before 8 track on One Inch became popular >(Bobby Darin's Splish Splash) that they would use the third track >to put the vocal on and re-do or punch in on it, till the producer >liked it. This is a little different from doing a three channel >spread recording, which could also be done. Nowhere at this time, >was there any type of time code. Yes, you could sync two machines >together with a common source driving the capstans from a big amp at >60Hz. But, it don't think it was done much. > >Then, you had the motion picture problem of conforming the stuff that >was recorded on a Nagra, the famous darling of the industry. >And that can become confusing. Later on, the 2 track with center >track time code became popular and helped with the >resolving/conforming issue. > >Then there was the question of "well, I've got a four track half inch >machine, let's put TC on Track 4 as see what happens". >Well, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've been there, done that. > >So this can become very confusing to a guy that doesn't do it >everyday, or who unlike us, hasn't sold his soul for Rock & Roll. (grin) > >(How bout that Sound Devices 788. A real 8 track. Is that an 8 Track >in your pocket? Or are you just glad to see me. Is that a killer or >what? I wish I'd had it and 8 wireless mic's when I was a kid, doing >"Church of the Week" every Sunday morning for the local Radio Station.) > >snip.....old 16mm Klangfilm magnet tape equipment.....snip > >Is Klangfilm a proper name like, Magna-Tech or Ranger Tone? or does >is mean generic Sproketed Mag Dubbers, etc.? >I forget. > > >50Hz, (or also 60Hz probably in USA...) was used only to have sound > >and film in synchrony and I can remember the first days of SMPTE, > >(mid of 1970'ies...) which was introduced with BOSCH-MAZ, video > >recording units, which were still huge, but were said to be modern > >and small units (!) using 1" tape. The older AMPEX video units were > >as big as a middle class car (!) having vacuum on head for 2" tape material. > >Yes, I remember in the 60's the firm called Electronic Engineering & >Equipment Company or EEECO. That was adopted to be known as SMPTE >TC. With a couple of changes, I believe. At this time it was all >Longitudinal. VITC came later. > >And the big Ampex and RCA 2" quads, didn't have color framing and >when they did, it didn't work too well. I remember spending many >hours as a client at a major post house, circa 1973, at $300 per >hour. Every edit we'd make, you would have to play it back >and watch the WFM to see if it "whipped". If it did, the editor >would stand up, walk over to the rec machine and flip a toggle switch that >their engineering dept. had installed. It would jog the next edit up >one complete field, I believe. Don't hold me to that, but, it would >do something so that the color frame on the second pass, would not >show a whip. This was a great time waster and profit center for the >post house. After a couple of these "sessions". I told myself, when >I get rich, I'm gonna have my own post house. I didn't get rich, >but many years later, we went video. It think it was >1989. Computers started to take over. > > >Towards 1980, the first portable or "transportable" video cameras > >were started and they did have the SMPTE codes on video-tapes and > >the synchronization studios or transferring from 1/4-to-16mm started > >to diminish from daily life. > > > >I do not remember to have seen 3-track recordings, or have heard > >such material, but I did wonder having seen the old ALTEC or JBL > >speaker-environment in catalogs covering the wall for to listen. But > >I personally was involved in some research projects like > >"stereo-field" with 7x or 11x loudspeakers. All speakers are > >positioned in front of a wall with identical distance to each other, > >where the stereo sound will be supplied from left-and-right but > >travel with a certain delay to the next loudspeaker respectively > >into the correct direction. In front of the loudspeakers You can > >hear stereo-sound, wherever You are just staying, as the sound is > >traveling in the room as "wavefront" and theoretically, You have not > >sit in the triangle to the R-and-L-speakers of the stereo system. > >(But You have to ignore the reflections or make Your tests in the > >acoustic-dead-room. > > > >I do remember the first audio synchron tape equipment on the market > >beginning late 1970'ies, where my first experience was a Telefunken > >M15A, which did have special heads and recorded SMPTE onto the tape > >itself and there has been a bunch of boards on rack-mount > >environment to handle the synchronization and finding the correct > >location on the tape material. > > > >A friend of mine, worked for a while in BBC studios in England mid > >of 1970'ies told me, that the original recordings of Beatles were > >made on a Studer J37, having 4x tracks and used mostly for > >sound-on-sound applications to have 2-tracks stereo at the end. He > >is therefore in search for an old Studer, but I have mine Telefunken > >M15A, with butterfly heads for DIN-Stereo, collected before several > >years via eBay-Germany, which did cost about the same like a > >Mercedes-280 just before 1980 on the professional-market. > > > >I just wanted to add some old experience with synch and tracks... > > > >WBR > > > >Arif IYICIL > >I'd love to hear your "stereofield" multi loudspeaker set up. It >must be great. >and Mark, I enjoyed what you had to say too. I have to agree that >none of us here are "audiophiles". We are way beyond >that. I call 'em "Hard Core Bedwetters". (grin). > >Who mentioned the JBL Paragon? Oh BTW, I've read the Perifonics >piece too. Wasn't Paul Klipsch a cool guy? I met him only once, >when I was a little kid, probably about 22years old. I was in awe. > >So all you gotta do is downgrade to become an "audiophile". (It >reminds me of the SNL sketch... "Ladies, lower your standards:...) >It's easy, sit down in front of a Paragon with a fifth of Jack. Play >you favorite stuff, have a drink. Buy the third drink, you have >become an "audiophile". Doesn't the timing errors between >transducers go away? Doesn't the MF JBL Horn start sounding like >a phenolic diaphragm mounted on six small Mid Range Speakers. Wow, I >don't have to spend $150K on a pair of stinkin' Quested's, that I >can't lift. Just have a couple of drinks. And look at all the money >I've saved!! (grin). > >Okay, I'm out of material, plus I've got three spots sitting here to >be done, for a local car dealer. >Happy New Year! >Best Regards >Pat > >Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. >Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. >2359 Highway 70, SE >Suite 102 >Hickory, NC 28602 >828 465-5500 or >828-461-3003 >www.appleson.com >email: appleson@... >Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (20 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1856 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:24 pm Subject: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued 1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. Thanks, Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1857 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:29 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ozzie, I've been using 80-100 mH heads for all track widths. I haven't measured my Sony OEM heads. Have you worn yours out? Cheers, Richard At 07:24 PM 2010-01-27, you wrote: >Hi Guys, > >Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued >1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may >have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. > >Thanks, > >Ozzie > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1858 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:59 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi there Richard, No, I'm actually doing a tape head preamp circuit for some additional playback options. I've wired the playback head for bypassing the internal electronics for when there's a need for some discrete class "A" playback action. As you know, the 5003 pretty much gives back what you put in, but sometimes I"m after something different on the output side. Thanks, Ozzie --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Ozzie, > > I've been using 80-100 mH heads for all track widths. I haven't > measured my Sony OEM heads. Have you worn yours out? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:24 PM 2010-01-27, you wrote: > >Hi Guys, > > > >Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued > >1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may > >have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1859 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:47 am Subject: Nice-looking APR5003V on eBay richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, guys, If anyone is looking for an APR5003V there is one in Quebec, just southeast of Montreal, that looks pretty clean. It has many of my criteria for a sweet machine: (a) 5003V (b) ceramic lifters (c) two-piece rotating guides (97% certain)--ask the seller to check (d) comes from a TV station (where they were used much less than radio or recording) It has some caveats and possible negatives (1) no stand/trolley (2) it's a fairly early date for a 5003V (89A - first quarter of 1989) with a serial number of 10420. My best APR 5003Vs are 89C and 90D with 110xx to 115xx serial numbers. (3) I would want to see a good photo of the heads to evaluate wear. (4) We don't know the version of the firmware installed. P4.02.01.5 or .6 is preferred (I prefer .6 for functionality, but many think .5 may be more stable in some regards). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120523510464 Note that there is a page of caveats about extra fees. Be warned there is a buyer's premium of 5% which, at the listing price is $25. Bonne chance ! (Just getting you to practice when you call the seller, but s/he probably speaks English as well. ) Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1860 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:46 am Subject: Re: Nice-looking APR5003V on eBay kichoi... Offline Send Email It's nice machine indeed. In addition to what Richard had already mentioned, I would add few other "issues" I see from the seller's photos: 1) It's missing the headblock cover. Not an issue for normal use but having one would make it complete. 2) One of the VU meter lamp is out. Probably the new owner should replace all the bulbs anyway... 3) Other than STOP, all the pushbutton marking have worn and gone...Although the array of LED lamps inside the FF, REW, Play, Stop, and Edit pushbuttons rarely go bad (unless one loses power supply...), one of the negative things about the Sony APR pushbuttons is that the printed markings on top of the PB always wear out. In a way it's a good way to guess amount of useage on the deck in addition to the hour-run meter reading(it can be reversed after 5000 hrs though). One of my APRs had very low hours and all the PB markings were there. 4) Lastly, it is missing one of the reel NAB hubs - easy find on eBay. Ki Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1861 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:07 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, In October, we did have a communication because of heads and since then, I have been looking for WOELKE documents, which I have got end of 1970'ies from the factory together with two sets of heads, 1/4" two track. I could got find the documents but the heads... I did measure the original SONY heads, both channels, WOELKE brand, with my HP 4274 and 16047 fixture at 1kHz... Record head : 3,56 / 3.61 mH (test signal 0.2V/9.5mA...) PB head : 62.0 / 61.5 mH (test signal 0.08V/0.2mA... ) I did not demount the heads to look if there is something else printed onto the other side, than the etiquette for part-number, but I have original heads from WOELKE with the following nomenclature : 1A10.27.2 / A=Aufnahme / Record head... 7.5 / 7.28 mH 1W4.27.2 / W=Wiedergabe / Playback head ... 63.5 / 62.10 mH I do suppose, that similar heads were also in BRAUN recorders and record head should have a gap of 10u and the PB-head should have 4u. I have not much experience with AMPEX, where I do know, ATR100 series has nice heads, but my personal feeling is, that Vacodur heads from Telefunken for DIN, 0.75mm space between tracks in butterfly configuration are very good and do not worn out much. FYI and WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 28 January, 2010 02:29 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) Hi, Ozzie, I've been using 80-100 mH heads for all track widths. I haven't measured my Sony OEM heads. Have you worn yours out? Cheers, Richard At 07:24 PM 2010-01-27, you wrote: >Hi Guys, > >Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued >1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may >have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. > >Thanks, > >Ozzie > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1862 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 3, 2010 4:27 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) richardlhess Offline Send Email The glass heads (Vacudor and others) are very good. I love the 318 series of Studer heads, but Jay McKnight warns against excess spacing loss in similar heads. http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_excess-spacing.pdf Similar heads were used in MCI recorders as MCI was bought by Sony and the APR was made in the MCI factory, but to Sony standards. Cheers, Richard At 02:07 AM 2010-02-03, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >In October, we did have a communication because of heads and since >then, I have been looking for WOELKE documents, which I have got end >of 1970'ies from the factory together with two sets of heads, 1/4" >two track. I could got find the documents but the heads... > >I did measure the original SONY heads, both channels, WOELKE brand, >with my HP 4274 and 16047 fixture at 1kHz... > >Record head : 3,56 / 3.61 mH (test signal 0.2V/9.5mA...) >PB head : 62.0 / 61.5 mH (test signal 0.08V/0.2mA... ) > >I did not demount the heads to look if there is something else >printed onto the other side, than the etiquette for part-number, but >I have original heads from WOELKE with the following nomenclature : > >1A10.27.2 / A=Aufnahme / Record head... 7.5 / 7.28 mH >1W4.27.2 / W=Wiedergabe / Playback head ... 63.5 / 62.10 mH > >I do suppose, that similar heads were also in BRAUN recorders and >record head should have a gap of 10u and the PB-head should have 4u. > >I have not much experience with AMPEX, where I do know, ATR100 >series has nice heads, but my personal feeling is, that Vacodur >heads from Telefunken for DIN, 0.75mm space between tracks in >butterfly configuration are very good and do not worn out much. > >FYI and WBR > >Arif IYICIL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, 28 January, 2010 02:29 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head > Impedance Value(mH) > > > > Hi, Ozzie, > > I've been using 80-100 mH heads for all track widths. I haven't > measured my Sony OEM heads. Have you worn yours out? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:24 PM 2010-01-27, you wrote: > >Hi Guys, > > > >Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued > >1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may > >have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1863 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Fri Feb 5, 2010 7:56 am Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, Revox/Studer heads 317 or 318 are made from iron-alloy, where the magnetic material similar like a transformer are glued in lamella with araldite within an aluminum carriage profile, which was produced from VacuumSchmelze in north of Germany. (I think they called the material as Recovac...?) All heads of Studer are made in the same way, except the very old types, and there has been only the difference of track- or width of tape-material. They did manage the gap width putting a Teflon tape of 2u or 7u between the both head-halves and glued and forced together and then lapped... (Studer factory did support me for a very special head for digital recording and I have been in the factory and therefore I do still remember these details. ) I think, You will mention the Studer "butterfly heads" 1/4" and 0.75mm distance between tracks which are 1.317.630.81 / record and 1.317.636.81 / playback, which I have built in My Studer B67. Vacodur is an iron-alloy, also produced from VacuumSchmelze (if I am not mistaken...) very similar material like Studer heads, but has been more harder than Studer. Vacodur is not a ferrite material and the low frequency area is better than the ferrite heads, where a slight difference can be heard on recordings with different types of heads. Softer material has better magnetic characteristics than the harder for example ferrite heads and the heads meeting the best compromise for enough frequency bandwidth and better low end response than ferrite heads are made from iron alloys. I think... VakuumSchmelze has also delivered the magnetic material for Bogen and Woelke. Therefore I will suggest, that almost every German head producer would have more or less similar coercivity and remanence for the heads, but only the coils would have different inductivity. When I will have time and enough spirit to take the camera in my hands, I will make the pictures of the heads I have on the reel-machines. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 03 February, 2010 23:27 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) The glass heads (Vacudor and others) are very good. I love the 318 series of Studer heads, but Jay McKnight warns against excess spacing loss in similar heads. http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_excess-spacing.pdf Similar heads were used in MCI recorders as MCI was bought by Sony and the APR was made in the MCI factory, but to Sony standards. Cheers, Richard At 02:07 AM 2010-02-03, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >In October, we did have a communication because of heads and since >then, I have been looking for WOELKE documents, which I have got end >of 1970'ies from the factory together with two sets of heads, 1/4" >two track. I could got find the documents but the heads... > >I did measure the original SONY heads, both channels, WOELKE brand, >with my HP 4274 and 16047 fixture at 1kHz... > >Record head : 3,56 / 3.61 mH (test signal 0.2V/9.5mA...) >PB head : 62.0 / 61.5 mH (test signal 0.08V/0.2mA... ) > >I did not demount the heads to look if there is something else >printed onto the other side, than the etiquette for part-number, but >I have original heads from WOELKE with the following nomenclature : > >1A10.27.2 / A=Aufnahme / Record head... 7.5 / 7.28 mH >1W4.27.2 / W=Wiedergabe / Playback head ... 63.5 / 62.10 mH > >I do suppose, that similar heads were also in BRAUN recorders and >record head should have a gap of 10u and the PB-head should have 4u. > >I have not much experience with AMPEX, where I do know, ATR100 >series has nice heads, but my personal feeling is, that Vacodur >heads from Telefunken for DIN, 0.75mm space between tracks in >butterfly configuration are very good and do not worn out much. > >FYI and WBR > >Arif IYICIL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, 28 January, 2010 02:29 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head > Impedance Value(mH) > > > > Hi, Ozzie, > > I've been using 80-100 mH heads for all track widths. I haven't > measured my Sony OEM heads. Have you worn yours out? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 07:24 PM 2010-01-27, you wrote: > >Hi Guys, > > > >Does anyone know the impedance in microHenries for the Sony issued > >1/2" playback heads for the 5000 series? I believe the heads may > >have been the Woelke brand, although I could be wrong. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1864 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Feb 5, 2010 8:27 am Subject: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback masteringman... Offline Send Email Arif IYICIL: > Revox/Studer heads 317 or 318 are made from iron-alloy This is not entirely correct. Please read: http://recordist.com/studer/Amorphous_core_material_for_heads.pdf -- Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1865 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Fri Feb 5, 2010 9:00 am Subject: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback masteringman... Offline Send Email Arif IYICIL: > I think... VakuumSchmelze has also delivered the magnetic > material for Bogen and Woelke. Therefore I will suggest, > that almost every German head producer would have more or > less similar coercivity and remanence for the heads, but > only the coils would have different inductivity. Sorry, no. Studer had their own factory to produce their heads in house using their own production techniques. The factory was destroyed due to a devastating fire that put an end to magnetic head production from Studer. Please read the following email from Martin Berner of Studer: Subject:[Studer] Type 317 v 318 heads Date:Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:31:32 +0200 From: martin.berner@... Reply-To:studer@... To:studer@... Jean-Louis wrote: > Is it worth the trouble and the investment to replace heads of > series 1.317.xxx by heads of series 1.318.xxx? Why/why not? Thank you Jay McKnight for the reply of this question! I just would like to add the following: We have one standard price for one type of head, regardless of the type of the core material. There is only one price for heads with the same track configurations. This means the following: A quarter-inch - two track, 2mm head for the A80 costs the same as the one for the A807 or A820, or a B67, or A810, whether the core material is Hy Mu or Vitrovac (amorphous material). Beside the wear rate of the head face, amorphous material has some other interesting advantages, e.g.: improved signal to noise ratio. Please be aware, that Studer is the only supplier of heads with amorphous head core material (Vitrovac, or Glass metal heads). Copy heads from any other head manufacturers DO NOT HAVE amorphous head core material. I will send a copy of an article about the amorphous heads (1.318.xxx.xx) for publication on the server to Fred. Jean-Louis, please note the following: The conversion instructions to add amorphous head into an A810 was published here on the 12.12.01 under the headline: A810 Default EQ - Setting / Conversion to amorphous heads See as well: RE: A810 Default EQ - Setting, dated 11.12.01. Best regards Martin Berner -- Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1866 From: Pat Appleson Date: Fri Feb 5, 2010 12:29 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Head Impedance Value(mH) appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi you guys, I'm following this thread. It's very informative & with a lot of stuff I've forgotten about. I was at Studer during the 1976 AES convention in Zurich. They showed us everything, except what they said was their "head mfg. dept." We got the royal treatment. But I guess that's because my "tour group" at Regansdorf consisted of me, Lutz Meyer, International Sales Mgr. for MCI and Jeep Harned, CEO MCI. We had a great time. (grin) Best Regards Pat PS... I knew they were second sourceing the heads, but didn't want to push it. (grin) Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1867 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 4:50 pm Subject: APR 5002 PSU & MCH Record Card soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello, First up, my Sony APR 5002 is working fine. But as I am using it more these days for mixdown, I would like to be prepared for any problems. I can handle most repairs although I might not have time to overhaul the power supply and don't have stock of the parts. Also, I'm not up to speed at this point with any mods for the PSU. Anyone who would like to contact me off the list who offers service, I would appreciate. Next up, my MCH JH24 has one dead record card. I am going to try and repair it but either way I need a spare. I have several spare record cards but none are the correct version. Anyone have any cards for the JH24? Feel free to contact me off list if you do! Thanks,Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1868 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 4:59 pm Subject: Re: APR 5002 PSU & MCI Record Card soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Sorry, apparently I cannot type today...Obviously it is an MCI card I'm in need of. Tom --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Soundscape Studio wrote: From: Soundscape Studio Subject: [sony_apr] APR 5002 PSU & MCH Record Card To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 3:50 PM  Hello, First up, my Sony APR 5002 is working fine. But as I am using it more these days for mixdown, I would like to be prepared for any problems. I can handle most repairs although I might not have time to overhaul the power supply and don't have stock of the parts. Also, I'm not up to speed at this point with any mods for the PSU. Anyone who would like to contact me off the list who offers service, I would appreciate. Next up, my MCH JH24 has one dead record card. I am going to try and repair it but either way I need a spare. I have several spare record cards but none are the correct version. Anyone have any cards for the JH24? Feel free to contact me off list if you do! Thanks,Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1869 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:38 pm Subject: Re: APR 5002 PSU & MCI Record Card engjch13 Offline Send Email Blevins Audio (http://www.blevinsaudio.com/) has a supply of all things MCI you might need. What's the difference between your spare cards and the dead one? Jeff Chestek Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Next up, my MCH JH24 has one dead record card. I am going to try and > repair it but either way I need a spare. I have several spare record > cards but none are the correct version. Anyone have any cards for the > JH24? Feel free to contact me off list if you do! > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1870 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:36 pm Subject: Re: APR 5002 PSU & MCI Record Card soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello, Thanks. I suppose Blevins is the way to go. I believe the relay is different on my card than the spares I have. I would have to check and see what the exact board numbers in question are though. Tom --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Jeff Chestek wrote: From: Jeff Chestek Subject: Re: [sony_apr] APR 5002 PSU & MCI Record Card To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:38 PM  Blevins Audio (http://www.blevinsa udio.com/) has a supply of all things MCI you might need. What's the difference between your spare cards and the dead one? Jeff Chestek Soundscape Studio wrote: > > Next up, my MCH JH24 has one dead record card. I am going to try and > repair it but either way I need a spare. I have several spare record > cards but none are the correct version. Anyone have any cards for the > JH24? Feel free to contact me off list if you do! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1871 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 4:26 am Subject: Re: Studer and TFK, VacuumSchmelze... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Goran, I think, some more details will help to clarify... Recovac and Vacodur are obviously the "product" names of the material, what Vacuumschmelze did produce, who call himself as "...leading global manufacturer of advanced magnetic materials"... The heads, produced with Recovac material was called "Revodur-heads..." and Revox factory in Loeffingen-Germany did produce these heads for home-type equipment in that factory, throughout 1970'ies, where I have attached some pictures of the "base" parts, which was used to make heads. The production steps were very easy and the ladies have produced them in speed of like "bunnies are born" ( - which was said from a gentleman at that time in the factory). It was like "box of bricks" and You put it together, whatever You like... I have also added pictures of some Revox heads, where only the track-width will be milled out from aluminum profile and as much as necessary quantity of lamellas magnetic material for the track-width is selected and the coil is wound and all related parts are "put together" and glued with araldite (two components resin...) and a spring holds them together until fixed. While I was at the university, Mr Willi Studer personally did support some of our projects and he also instructed the Loeffingen factory for help and we did prepare the heads in our mechanical workshop and milled the profiles and made the coils and later they did lapped them. The material and constriction did not allow to reduce the inductivity, which was a limitation for digital recording with "iron-alloy" heads at that time. I have also been at the Regensdorf factory, but at that visit, I have been mostly interested for mechanical regulations of band-transport and did not see the heads section. But I am aware, that butterfly heads were built there, but I do not know exactly if the construction is the same. After 1980, I have been busy on other fields but mid 1990'ies I have met Mr Studer again in Regensdorf but the time was not very nice, as the factory was taken over from Motor-Colombus and the feeling of all employees was different. In short... I wanted to say... Base magnetic material for most of German heads are coming from Vacuumschmelze and Revox and Studer did the heads in house. I have less experience with "amorphous-heads" which are probably later in 1980'ies... By the way... Telefunken did use Vacodur material from Vacuumschmelze and the heads were constructed in home factory in Konstanz. At the visit mid of 1970'ies, they have been proud, saying, that the tools did wear out while producing the heads, but the heads were roughly "unwearable". I did add also some pictures from Vacodur heads, and also a ferrite head from Telefunken. The ferrite head seems similar to Ampex heads, but the Vacodur heads are a "legend" in my opinion and I like them due to their strength. We all will know the Woelke heads from Sony-APR and the picture showing several heads is to have a feeling from the size of the heads. Telefunken heads were much durable than Studer and this was the main difference between them. Later when Studer did took over Telefunken factory and produced A816, they also did try to have Telefunken-like-heads for replacement. It is said, that they did have better frequency response, but no one could tell it, that they did last at least as much as the original heads. (Rumors said, that the life expectations should be 1x : 5x... ) Sorry for the long details and I will also hope, that the pictures will come along healthy, where I have tried to have correct illumination, where I have a very dark laptop-screen due to the problems I have with my eyes... WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Goran Finnberg To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 05 February, 2010 16:00 Subject: [sony_apr] Sony APR 5003 1/2" OEM Playback Arif IYICIL: > I think... VakuumSchmelze has also delivered the magnetic > material for Bogen and Woelke. Therefore I will suggest, > that almost every German head producer would have more or > less similar coercivity and remanence for the heads, but > only the coils would have different inductivity. Sorry, no. Studer had their own factory to produce their heads in house using their own production techniques. The factory was destroyed due to a devastating fire that put an end to magnetic head production from Studer. Please read the following email from Martin Berner of Studer: Subject:[Studer] Type 317 v 318 heads Date:Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:31:32 +0200 From: martin.berner@... Reply-To:studer@... To:studer@... Jean-Louis wrote: > Is it worth the trouble and the investment to replace heads of > series 1.317.xxx by heads of series 1.318.xxx? Why/why not? Thank you Jay McKnight for the reply of this question! I just would like to add the following: We have one standard price for one type of head, regardless of the type of the core material. There is only one price for heads with the same track configurations. This means the following: A quarter-inch - two track, 2mm head for the A80 costs the same as the one for the A807 or A820, or a B67, or A810, whether the core material is Hy Mu or Vitrovac (amorphous material). Beside the wear rate of the head face, amorphous material has some other interesting advantages, e.g.: improved signal to noise ratio. Please be aware, that Studer is the only supplier of heads with amorphous head core material (Vitrovac, or Glass metal heads). Copy heads from any other head manufacturers DO NOT HAVE amorphous head core material. I will send a copy of an article about the amorphous heads (1.318.xxx.xx) for publication on the server to Fred. Jean-Louis, please note the following: The conversion instructions to add amorphous head into an A810 was published here on the 12.12.01 under the headline: A810 Default EQ - Setting / Conversion to amorphous heads See as well: RE: A810 Default EQ - Setting, dated 11.12.01. Best regards Martin Berner -- Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1872 From: "les_lmbrt" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:28 am Subject: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? les_lmbrt Offline Send Email I've had a request for a hire for my APR 5000, for 1/4 inch transfers mostly, for a few months. Trusted client etc. He needs more machines than just that one. I thought maybe another group member had a machine he would be prepared to sell, rent etc. I actually have 4 1/4 headblocks that are all fine and a couple of spare audio cards, and could complete an otherwise awaiting spares machine. The tech that fixes mine is too busy to resurrect a totally dead machine at this point, but we may get more desperate and have to rethink that. Dolby 363's with 300 cards are also involved. Considering other machines, but Studer upwards really, old fragile tapes are expected. Talking of fragile tapes. Two issues with the APR deck. Has anyboby fitted a roller in place of the supply side tape sensor arm. This is a source of debris generation and then of course collection when dealing with tapes prepared to shed their coating. The fewer fixed parts in the tape path the better seems a sensible policy. When transferring a batch of early sixties quarter inch tapes, I had a few edits fall apart while I was taking phone calls or answering calls of nature etc, unprofessional conduct under the circumstances as we will see. The APR failing to realize the take up spool and the supply reel were no longer connected, ran the take up spool op to warp 9, flaying the end of the just copied piece of 50 year old acetate. This isn't something we want to happen to a real piece of history, which these tapes weren't, they were off-air recordings from the BBC Pick Of The Pops, with the voice over chopped out, sorry Alan. Does someone have a mod in mind for this that doesn't involve drilling the deckplate? Obviously there is currntly no moving part on the mechanism between the capstan and the take up spool where I could sneak in a microswitch, and I don't really want to trail anything on the tape here that isn't a proper moving part. les_lmbrt@... Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1873 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:10 am Subject: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? richardlhess Offline Send Email At 05:28 AM 2010-02-11, les_lmbrt wrote: >Talking of fragile tapes. Two issues with the APR deck. > >Has anyboby fitted a roller in place of the supply side tape sensor >arm. This is a source of debris generation and then of course >collection when dealing with tapes prepared to shed their coating. >The fewer fixed parts in the tape path the better seems a sensible policy. It is possible to find a ball bearing that slides over the ceramic feeler, but the trick would be shimming it to be precisely vertical. You can also remove it. While the deck uses that input, it is not the only input to the computer to determine tape tension and the machine works reasonably well on problematic tapes with the bar taped all the way to the left, so presumably it will work with it removed. Let us know. HOWEVER, since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. >When transferring a batch of early sixties quarter inch tapes, I had >a few edits fall apart while I was taking phone calls or answering >calls of nature etc, unprofessional conduct under the circumstances >as we will see. The APR failing to realize the take up spool and the >supply reel were no longer connected, ran the take up spool op to >warp 9, flaying the end of the just copied piece of 50 year old >acetate. This isn't something we want to happen to a real piece of >history, which these tapes weren't, they were off-air recordings >from the BBC Pick Of The Pops, with the voice over chopped out, sorry Alan. > >Does someone have a mod in mind for this that doesn't involve >drilling the deckplate? Obviously there is currntly no moving part >on the mechanism between the capstan and the take up spool where I >could sneak in a microswitch, and I don't really want to trail >anything on the tape here that isn't a proper moving part. This is problematic in the design and something I worry about. Relocating the optical sensor to the right of the capstan might be possible, but would require cutting the cover plate. I think this is why Ampex originally located their "tape break swich" to the right of the capstan. I'm not sure if this was copied from the Magnetophon or was Ampex original engineering (or perhaps a Mullin mod to his Magnetophon), but it was certainly the trad. position for a tape break switch since the 300 and possibly the 200A. With that said, I think the Studer A807 might also suffer from this failing as the optical sensor and the tacho counter are both to the left of the capstan. On the other hand, the Studer does stop the transport if the tacho pulses stop, but this doesn't help in your situation. You being in Racal-land might want to consider re-equalizing (possibly in the DAW) a Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder which is one of the smoother transports available for up to 8-inch reels, but it has IRIG "Direct" EQ which is almost constant current record. MRL has a program that will let you calculate offsets between two EQ settings, or you can just play your test tape and make it flat later. Make sure you get enough DIRECT play cards on your machine. It also can be populated with FM cards. I am a real fan of this machine for certain applications. Search my blog (see link below under A80) for "racal". I think with 3" reels and thin tapes, I'd rather use an APR than a Studer A810, but the A810 does sense either tension arm dropping out. The A80 requires both tension plates to drop out before it stops the tape, so it, too, can suffer from the problem unless you mod one of the cards for either-tension-plate-dropout-stop which I have documented here: http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/06/02/studer-a80rc-mod-for-either-tension-sens\ or-stop/ Caution: one of my two A80s in the studio seems to have an intermittent on one of the two tension plates and will randomly stop with this mod while the second machine never randomly stops with this mod. I have spoken to someone who said I should look for hairline cracks on the sensor boards as people sometimes used them for handles to move the machine. I haven't gotten that far. Other than that, the mod works well. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1874 From: "les_lmbrt" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:53 am Subject: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? les_lmbrt Offline Send Email Yes, thanks Richard points well made, I will explore. >......since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, > only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. > There seems to be transferral of anything loose from one surface to the other, sometimes just the usual powdery brown or black oxide I assume, sometimes sticky residue from splicing tape like Zonal, looking suspiciously like sellotape even when it was new, thicker and a bit spongier and a full 1/4 inch I recall. Some of the edit tape adhesive dries hard and powdery, isopropyl not much use with that, I used what we call white spirit, a thinner for domestic oil paint in the UK. Turpentine substitute was its original name and purpose. Some years ago something was added to it that leaves a white powdery residue when it dries, maybe just chalk. Ideally I'd like a cleaning agent that doesn't attack the still functional binding agent, is harmless to humans and the environment and completely evaporates, but I'm still looking. It's probably available in a local store in all US cities, like those other staples, Elmers and Betty Crocker cake mix. Maybe there's a plug in for ProzacTowels. The binder ooze as you say can be almost wholly prevented from being a practical problem during transfer by the baking, but the 2inch leader especially has caused problems by shrinking and deforming the packed tape, sometimes creating an interesting visual object, but it makes playing the tape a nerve racking business. FAST WIND? I WOULDN'T TRY IT. It was marginally less trouble than the tape that hadn't been anchored to the hub and had started spinning and bunching. A fourteen inch reel of digital tape takes a very long tme to wind by hand. The striped timing leader was worst shrinker so far, a very thin material which seemed thicker after baking and probably shorter in proportion. I don't get to make the call on baking the stuff apparently, hard to imagine how the subdivision of tasks works sometimes. You understood well though despite my omissions! I failed to specify that I have ceased to wind tapes that are anywhere near my age, and play them out either at 30 if they seem ok or at 3 3/4 if I smell a rat. The poorer edits, idiotedits? show in the poor pack at these points. The APR fast wind mode has the tape sensor in circuit but a sticky edit or even a dried out one can precipitate a minor crisis in fast wind, though not a flayed end. I'm also looking for the link I had that discussed the wet tape transfer for preventing the heating up of the oxide during the tape motion over all the fixed parts, of course heads included, which must remain a permanent issue. I have used a rudimentary version of this with some of my own material, quarter and half inch, and I did worry that some wetness was bound to be trapped between layers on the take up side. Of the two problems, it was the lesser evil. It saved me a couple of weeks over a six month period of transferring 30 years worth of my stuff. As there was no budget during this time, baking wasn't a practical option. When there's budget I'm too busy. Actually only one of 500 cassettes failed to play due to being too sticky, and baking did make it play, though the leader detatched itself at the short end. Those tapes are now history, land fill somewhere, so we'll never know what damage my short cut produced. This next batch can't be treated like that, they have to be returned as good as they arrived if not better to be able to last another indeterminate storage period. Who will get to transfer them the next time is another question. Will anyone be available to re-edit analog tape in 30 years' time. Not us for sure. I'd like to think the hardware will survive the wait, there won't be any more where that lot came from. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1875 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:55 pm Subject: Re: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:53 AM 2010-02-11, les_lmbrt wrote: >Yes, thanks Richard points well made, I will explore. > >There seems to be transferral of anything loose from one surface to >the other, sometimes just the usual powdery brown or black oxide I assume, Powdery stuff can be wiped by the soft side of non-woven polyester Pellon fabric aka generically as "interfacing" but make sure you get the non-woven flavour. I get longish pieces 5 m or so and then fold it and slice it on my paper cutter (paper knife) and wind that on a pencil so I can unwind it against the tape as it moves by. >sometimes sticky residue from splicing tape like Zonal, looking >suspiciously like sellotape even when it was new, thicker and a bit >spongier and a full 1/4 inch I recall. Some of the edit tape >adhesive dries hard and powdery, isopropyl not much use with that, I >used what we call white spirit, a thinner for domestic oil paint in >the UK. Turpentine substitute was its original name and purpose. >Some years ago something was added to it that leaves a white powdery >residue when it dries, maybe just chalk. Ideally I'd like a >cleaning agent that doesn't attack the still functional binding >agent, is harmless to humans and the environment and completely >evaporates, but I'm still looking. It's probably available in a >local store in all US cities, like those other staples, Elmers and >Betty Crocker cake mix. I'm convinced that no good solvent is also good for you. I use naphtha sold here as Ronsonol lighter fluid, but it will dissolve some tape binders easily. >Maybe there's a plug in for ProzacTowels. There's a thought. >I don't get to make the call on baking the stuff apparently, hard to >imagine how the subdivision of tasks works sometimes. Remind them that not baking may do more damage than baking. >You understood well though despite my omissions! >I failed to specify that I have ceased to wind tapes that are >anywhere near my age, and play them out either at 30 if they seem ok >or at 3 3/4 if I smell a rat. For even smellier rats use -50% varispeed on the APR and play them at 1.88 in/s - seriously. That's in keeping what the late Peter Copeland of your country was doing at the British Library. >The poorer edits, idiotedits? show in the poor pack at these points. >The APR fast wind mode has the tape sensor in circuit but a sticky >edit or even a dried out one can precipitate a minor crisis in fast >wind, though not a flayed end. You do know about library wind on the APR -- 60 or 75 in/s -- I forget which. Just tap the MVC dial making sure the MVC lamp comes on. >I'm also looking for the link I had that discussed the wet tape transfer That should be Marie O'Connell's wonderful article that she let me publish in my blog http://richardhess.com/notes/2006/03/09/wet-playing-of-reel-tapes-with-loss-of-l\ ubricant-a-guest-article-by-marie-oconnell/ If you have not, I strongly urge you to read my paper and also get the two Bharat Bhushan books that I cite in it. http://www.richardhess.com/tape/history/HESS_Tape_Degradation_ARSC_Journal_39-2.\ pdf Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1876 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:13 pm Subject: RE: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Really, if you are looking for a delicate machine, the Sony may not be the answer as far as I know, it does not have library wind, by far the best machine I have used for old tapes including paper ones and early AEG stile tapes from pre 1940's, is the Studer A80, though the APR will beat the Studer at high frequencies recorded at slow speeds, its transport is no were near as soft as the A80's. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of les_lmbrt Sent: 11 February 2010 16:53 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? Yes, thanks Richard points well made, I will explore. >......since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, > only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. > There seems to be transferral of anything loose from one surface to the other, sometimes just the usual powdery brown or black oxide I assume, sometimes sticky residue from splicing tape like Zonal, looking suspiciously like sellotape even when it was new, thicker and a bit spongier and a full 1/4 inch I recall. Some of the edit tape adhesive dries hard and powdery, isopropyl not much use with that, I used what we call white spirit, a thinner for domestic oil paint in the UK. Turpentine substitute was its original name and purpose. Some years ago something was added to it that leaves a white powdery residue when it dries, maybe just chalk. Ideally I'd like a cleaning agent that doesn't attack the still functional binding agent, is harmless to humans and the environment and completely evaporates, but I'm still looking. It's probably available in a local store in all US cities, like those other staples, Elmers and Betty Crocker cake mix. Maybe there's a plug in for ProzacTowels. The binder ooze as you say can be almost wholly prevented from being a practical problem during transfer by the baking, but the 2inch leader especially has caused problems by shrinking and deforming the packed tape, sometimes creating an interesting visual object, but it makes playing the tape a nerve racking business. FAST WIND? I WOULDN'T TRY IT. It was marginally less trouble than the tape that hadn't been anchored to the hub and had started spinning and bunching. A fourteen inch reel of digital tape takes a very long tme to wind by hand. The striped timing leader was worst shrinker so far, a very thin material which seemed thicker after baking and probably shorter in proportion. I don't get to make the call on baking the stuff apparently, hard to imagine how the subdivision of tasks works sometimes. You understood well though despite my omissions! I failed to specify that I have ceased to wind tapes that are anywhere near my age, and play them out either at 30 if they seem ok or at 3 3/4 if I smell a rat. The poorer edits, idiotedits? show in the poor pack at these points. The APR fast wind mode has the tape sensor in circuit but a sticky edit or even a dried out one can precipitate a minor crisis in fast wind, though not a flayed end. I'm also looking for the link I had that discussed the wet tape transfer for preventing the heating up of the oxide during the tape motion over all the fixed parts, of course heads included, which must remain a permanent issue. I have used a rudimentary version of this with some of my own material, quarter and half inch, and I did worry that some wetness was bound to be trapped between layers on the take up side. Of the two problems, it was the lesser evil. It saved me a couple of weeks over a six month period of transferring 30 years worth of my stuff. As there was no budget during this time, baking wasn't a practical option. When there's budget I'm too busy. Actually only one of 500 cassettes failed to play due to being too sticky, and baking did make it play, though the leader detatched itself at the short end. Those tapes are now history, land fill somewhere, so we'll never know what damage my short cut produced. This next batch can't be treated like that, they have to be returned as good as they arrived if not better to be able to last another indeterminate storage period. Who will get to transfer them the next time is another question. Will anyone be available to re-edit analog tape in 30 years' time. Not us for sure. I'd like to think the hardware will survive the wait, there won't be any more where that lot came from. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2681 - Release Date: 02/11/10 07:35:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1877 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:55 pm Subject: RE: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:13 PM 2010-02-11, Stuart Blacklock wrote: >Really, if you are looking for a delicate machine, the Sony may not be the >answer as far as I know, it does not have library wind, by far the best >machine I have used for old tapes including paper ones and early AEG stile >tapes from pre 1940's, is the Studer A80, though the APR will beat the >Studer at high frequencies recorded at slow speeds, its transport is no were >near as soft as the A80's. Agreed for the most part, but the APR5000 does have library wind as discussed in a previous message. Tap the MVC control while in fast wind and it slows down. I do a lot of old, fragile tapes on my APRs because they have the variety of head configurations I don't have for the A80s. I also transfer AEG/Magnetophon tapes on my APRs because they are 6.5 mm wide and the guides for all the machines are nominally for 6.35 mm wide tape, but I have filed out (ouch) the APR-5000 guides on my full-track mono head block (one side, I can rotate them to either 6.5 or 6.35 mm, similar to the Ampex AG440 1/2-inch/1/4-inch "rotating" guides). Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1878 From: Les Lambert Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:13 pm Subject: RE: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? les_lmbrt Offline Send Email Thanks Stuart for your input. APR versus A80? Yes I agree, better in many respects, especially tape handling, and this project is purely playback. I omitted sufficient details of the planned method in my original post, but all transport will be at play speed or below I think, much editing has probably been done to a large proportion of the tapes. Most of the past problems I've personally met have been stumbled over by not going slowly enough with things. I now have a collection of old tapes of dubious origin and varying condition to test setups with, something I hadn't thought of earlier.I could even pour beer over a few them and leave them in the garden shed to see what might possibly go wrong under those particular conditions and how recovery might be attempted. Hopefully this project won't be that strenuous. I'm one of the foot soldiers on this project and am trying to assist others too young to have encountered some of these issues in depth. Often the procedure is dictated by, or randomly selected by those without personal experience. I myself own the Sony because it's still possible for me to pick it up and carry it upstairs, once it's out of the flightcase. I managed to find the complete set of headblocks rather fortunately after almost giving up on that hope, and they were affordable, which hasn't proven to be the case with most machines of this calibre. I have an Ampex ATR 102 half inch only, which I simply wrench onto a convenient flightcase and onto the tailgate of the vehicle, but stairs are impossible, headblocks a huge investment, so practicality dictates its imminent sale before an accident to it or me makes me sorry. The A80 was just too big in the first place for me and my diminishing space when I was in acquisitional mode 15 years ago. I think we will be having a few of these on the project, but the more modern memory based alignments may be useful, as it's rumoured we'll be recovering the tapes by artiste rather than by any technical common factor. I thought multiple machines of the same type would minimise operator fatigue, and reduce some of the avoidable errors. We may go to A820 too, if they can be sourced in the time we're given Thanks again for your input, I may contact you on this or some other aspect later, but we must be sure of the employer and his bona fides before I get carried away, which will take at least until the first payments are made. --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Stuart Blacklock wrote: From: Stuart Blacklock Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 20:13  Really, if you are looking for a delicate machine, the Sony may not be the answer as far as I know, it does not have library wind, by far the best machine I have used for old tapes including paper ones and early AEG stile tapes from pre 1940's, is the Studer A80, though the APR will beat the Studer at high frequencies recorded at slow speeds, its transport is no were near as soft as the A80's. From: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of les_lmbrt Sent: 11 February 2010 16:53 To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? Yes, thanks Richard points well made, I will explore. >......since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, > only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. > There seems to be transferral of anything loose from one surface to the other, sometimes just the usual powdery brown or black oxide I assume, sometimes sticky residue from splicing tape like Zonal, looking suspiciously like sellotape even when it was new, thicker and a bit spongier and a full 1/4 inch I recall. Some of the edit tape adhesive dries hard and powdery, isopropyl not much use with that, I used what we call white spirit, a thinner for domestic oil paint in the UK. Turpentine substitute was its original name and purpose. Some years ago something was added to it that leaves a white powdery residue when it dries, maybe just chalk. Ideally I'd like a cleaning agent that doesn't attack the still functional binding agent, is harmless to humans and the environment and completely evaporates, but I'm still looking. It's probably available in a local store in all US cities, like those other staples, Elmers and Betty Crocker cake mix. Maybe there's a plug in for ProzacTowels. The binder ooze as you say can be almost wholly prevented from being a practical problem during transfer by the baking, but the 2inch leader especially has caused problems by shrinking and deforming the packed tape, sometimes creating an interesting visual object, but it makes playing the tape a nerve racking business. FAST WIND? I WOULDN'T TRY IT. It was marginally less trouble than the tape that hadn't been anchored to the hub and had started spinning and bunching. A fourteen inch reel of digital tape takes a very long tme to wind by hand. The striped timing leader was worst shrinker so far, a very thin material which seemed thicker after baking and probably shorter in proportion. I don't get to make the call on baking the stuff apparently, hard to imagine how the subdivision of tasks works sometimes. You understood well though despite my omissions! I failed to specify that I have ceased to wind tapes that are anywhere near my age, and play them out either at 30 if they seem ok or at 3 3/4 if I smell a rat. The poorer edits, idiotedits? show in the poor pack at these points. The APR fast wind mode has the tape sensor in circuit but a sticky edit or even a dried out one can precipitate a minor crisis in fast wind, though not a flayed end. I'm also looking for the link I had that discussed the wet tape transfer for preventing the heating up of the oxide during the tape motion over all the fixed parts, of course heads included, which must remain a permanent issue. I have used a rudimentary version of this with some of my own material, quarter and half inch, and I did worry that some wetness was bound to be trapped between layers on the take up side. Of the two problems, it was the lesser evil. It saved me a couple of weeks over a six month period of transferring 30 years worth of my stuff. As there was no budget during this time, baking wasn't a practical option. When there's budget I'm too busy. Actually only one of 500 cassettes failed to play due to being too sticky, and baking did make it play, though the leader detatched itself at the short end. Those tapes are now history, land fill somewhere, so we'll never know what damage my short cut produced. This next batch can't be treated like that, they have to be returned as good as they arrived if not better to be able to last another indeterminate storage period. Who will get to transfer them the next time is another question. Will anyone be available to re-edit analog tape in 30 years' time. Not us for sure. I'd like to think the hardware will survive the wait, there won't be any more where that lot came from. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2681 - Release Date: 02/11/10 07:35:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1879 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:56 pm Subject: RE: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email You learn something every day! Tapping the MVC activates library wind, never knew that, thank you. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: 11 February 2010 20:56 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? At 03:13 PM 2010-02-11, Stuart Blacklock wrote: >Really, if you are looking for a delicate machine, the Sony may not be the >answer as far as I know, it does not have library wind, by far the best >machine I have used for old tapes including paper ones and early AEG stile >tapes from pre 1940's, is the Studer A80, though the APR will beat the >Studer at high frequencies recorded at slow speeds, its transport is no were >near as soft as the A80's. Agreed for the most part, but the APR5000 does have library wind as discussed in a previous message. Tap the MVC control while in fast wind and it slows down. I do a lot of old, fragile tapes on my APRs because they have the variety of head configurations I don't have for the A80s. I also transfer AEG/Magnetophon tapes on my APRs because they are 6.5 mm wide and the guides for all the machines are nominally for 6.35 mm wide tape, but I have filed out (ouch) the APR-5000 guides on my full-track mono head block (one side, I can rotate them to either 6.5 or 6.35 mm, similar to the Ampex AG440 1/2-inch/1/4-inch "rotating" guides). Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2681 - Release Date: 02/11/10 07:35:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1880 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:24 am Subject: Tails Out On New Stock? ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I've always had this burning question in the back of my mind. I have been using analog tape for over twenty years or so and always wondered if new tape stock was actually provided in the tails out state with the logo on the bottom of the reel. Here is the reason I'm asking this question; I have a special supply reel that I rarely remove from my machine and when a client provides me with a brand new tape for the session, I mount their tape with the logo down and rewind the new tape onto my supply reel. Then, of course I explain to the client what tails out mean and why it's necessary to load the tape in this fashion. And besides, most mastering houses prefer to receive analog tape in the tails out fashion as well, so I always make sure that's how they leave my shop. If in fact the new tape stock is not tails out, I would be very perplexed being that tails out has been some what of a standard now for many years. Since, there is a great deal of history here, I know some one will have the answer. In fact, I know you have the answer Richard so let's here it. Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1881 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:27 am Subject: RE: Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? vintage_reco... Offline Send Email I have jut purchased a APR-5003 which I am collecting this weekend, I don't know the condition yet though as I already have one, this one could be used for hire or for sale. Thank you. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of les_lmbrt Sent: 11 February 2010 16:53 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] Re: Any APR5000 for hire in UK? Yes, thanks Richard points well made, I will explore. >......since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, > only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. > There seems to be transferral of anything loose from one surface to the other, sometimes just the usual powdery brown or black oxide I assume, sometimes sticky residue from splicing tape like Zonal, looking suspiciously like sellotape even when it was new, thicker and a bit spongier and a full 1/4 inch I recall. Some of the edit tape adhesive dries hard and powdery, isopropyl not much use with that, I used what we call white spirit, a thinner for domestic oil paint in the UK. Turpentine substitute was its original name and purpose. Some years ago something was added to it that leaves a white powdery residue when it dries, maybe just chalk. Ideally I'd like a cleaning agent that doesn't attack the still functional binding agent, is harmless to humans and the environment and completely evaporates, but I'm still looking. It's probably available in a local store in all US cities, like those other staples, Elmers and Betty Crocker cake mix. Maybe there's a plug in for ProzacTowels. The binder ooze as you say can be almost wholly prevented from being a practical problem during transfer by the baking, but the 2inch leader especially has caused problems by shrinking and deforming the packed tape, sometimes creating an interesting visual object, but it makes playing the tape a nerve racking business. FAST WIND? I WOULDN'T TRY IT. It was marginally less trouble than the tape that hadn't been anchored to the hub and had started spinning and bunching. A fourteen inch reel of digital tape takes a very long tme to wind by hand. The striped timing leader was worst shrinker so far, a very thin material which seemed thicker after baking and probably shorter in proportion. I don't get to make the call on baking the stuff apparently, hard to imagine how the subdivision of tasks works sometimes. You understood well though despite my omissions! I failed to specify that I have ceased to wind tapes that are anywhere near my age, and play them out either at 30 if they seem ok or at 3 3/4 if I smell a rat. The poorer edits, idiotedits? show in the poor pack at these points. The APR fast wind mode has the tape sensor in circuit but a sticky edit or even a dried out one can precipitate a minor crisis in fast wind, though not a flayed end. I'm also looking for the link I had that discussed the wet tape transfer for preventing the heating up of the oxide during the tape motion over all the fixed parts, of course heads included, which must remain a permanent issue. I have used a rudimentary version of this with some of my own material, quarter and half inch, and I did worry that some wetness was bound to be trapped between layers on the take up side. Of the two problems, it was the lesser evil. It saved me a couple of weeks over a six month period of transferring 30 years worth of my stuff. As there was no budget during this time, baking wasn't a practical option. When there's budget I'm too busy. Actually only one of 500 cassettes failed to play due to being too sticky, and baking did make it play, though the leader detatched itself at the short end. Those tapes are now history, land fill somewhere, so we'll never know what damage my short cut produced. This next batch can't be treated like that, they have to be returned as good as they arrived if not better to be able to last another indeterminate storage period. Who will get to transfer them the next time is another question. Will anyone be available to re-edit analog tape in 30 years' time. Not us for sure. I'd like to think the hardware will survive the wait, there won't be any more where that lot came from. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2681 - Release Date: 02/11/10 07:35:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (9 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1882 From: Les Lambert Date: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:26 am Subject: Re: Tails Out On New Stock? les_lmbrt Offline Send Email In the same way that electrons don't really care about the colour of the plastic covering over the copper wire, tape doesn't know its front from its rear. The convention only begins once you record on it. If the tape is sold with coloured leader already attached, we would tend to accept that, it saves work. The reel and the tape are best kept together so later generations can continue to attribute ageing issues to dates of manufacture etc. The reels have in many cases the only information we have about the actual piece of tape we start with. Richard as you say has chapter and verse on why we store tail out now, in the sixties we didn't, but we didn't put tones on either, or label which eq curve, or much at all. --- On Fri, 12/2/10, ozzie_b_music wrote: From: ozzie_b_music Subject: [sony_apr] Tails Out On New Stock? To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 12 February, 2010, 6:24  Hi Guys, I've always had this burning question in the back of my mind. I have been using analog tape for over twenty years or so and always wondered if new tape stock was actually provided in the tails out state with the logo on the bottom of the reel. Here is the reason I'm asking this question; I have a special supply reel that I rarely remove from my machine and when a client provides me with a brand new tape for the session, I mount their tape with the logo down and rewind the new tape onto my supply reel. Then, of course I explain to the client what tails out mean and why it's necessary to load the tape in this fashion. And besides, most mastering houses prefer to receive analog tape in the tails out fashion as well, so I always make sure that's how they leave my shop. If in fact the new tape stock is not tails out, I would be very perplexed being that tails out has been some what of a standard now for many years. Since, there is a great deal of history here, I know some one will have the answer. In fact, I know you have the answer Richard so let's here it. Ozzie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1883 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:34 pm Subject: Re: Tails Out On New Stock? engjch13 Offline Send Email Way back when (when analog tape was king and digital recording was bleeding edge technology) I heard mumblings about a so-called "velour effect", ie: recordings sounded better when the tape was run in the same direction it was manufactured because of some difference in the orientation of the oxide particles (run your hand in different directions over velour cloth and you get the idea). I think it was mostly talked about as a modulation distortion effect (asperity effect), and it was described as very subtle. We never paid much attention to it, I've never tried any kind of test to see if I could find a difference, but I've always tried to do the same thing you do, rewind the virgin reel, and record it back onto the reel it came in with (for several reasons beside velourishness!) Jeff Chestek Les Lambert wrote: > > > In the same way that electrons don't really care about the colour of the > plastic covering over the copper wire, tape doesn't know its front from > its rear. The convention only begins once you record on it. If the tape > is sold with coloured leader already attached, we would tend to accept > that, it saves work. > The reel and the tape are best kept together so later generations can > continue to attribute ageing issues to dates of manufacture etc. The > reels have in many cases the only information we have about the actual > piece of tape we start with. Richard as you say has chapter and verse on > why we store tail out now, in the sixties we didn't, but we didn't put > tones on either, or label which eq curve, or much at all. > > --- On Fri, 12/2/10, ozzie_b_music > wrote: > > From: ozzie_b_music > > Subject: [sony_apr] Tails Out On New Stock? > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, 12 February, 2010, 6:24 > > > > Hi Guys, > > I've always had this burning question in the back of my mind. I have > been using analog tape for over twenty years or so and always wondered > if new tape stock was actually provided in the tails out state with the > logo on the bottom of the reel. Here is the reason I'm asking this > question; I have a special supply reel that I rarely remove from my > machine and when a client provides me with a brand new tape for the > session, I mount their tape with the logo down and rewind the new tape > onto my supply reel. Then, of course I explain to the client what tails > out mean and why it's necessary to load the tape in this fashion. And > besides, most mastering houses prefer to receive analog tape in the > tails out fashion as well, so I always make sure that's how they leave > my shop. If in fact the new tape stock is not tails out, I would be very > perplexed being that tails out has been some what of a standard now for > many years. > > Since, there is a great deal of history here, I know some one will have > the answer. In fact, I know you have the answer Richard so let's here it. > > Ozzie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1884 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:39 am Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, Please check also the small potentiometers in the sensor blocks for continuity of the resistor values... There can be no contact for a short while in the potentiometer while moving, which can cause this sudden stop. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 11 February, 2010 17:10 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Any APR5000 for hire in UK? At 05:28 AM 2010-02-11, les_lmbrt wrote: >Talking of fragile tapes. Two issues with the APR deck. > >Has anyboby fitted a roller in place of the supply side tape sensor >arm. This is a source of debris generation and then of course >collection when dealing with tapes prepared to shed their coating. >The fewer fixed parts in the tape path the better seems a sensible policy. It is possible to find a ball bearing that slides over the ceramic feeler, but the trick would be shimming it to be precisely vertical. You can also remove it. While the deck uses that input, it is not the only input to the computer to determine tape tension and the machine works reasonably well on problematic tapes with the bar taped all the way to the left, so presumably it will work with it removed. Let us know. HOWEVER, since the tension feeler is touching the BACK of the tape, only back-coated tapes should show any shedding at that point and if the tape is back coated and shedding, it is most likely suffering from Sticky Shed Syndrome and should really be baked before you pull the oxide off the tape while winding it. >When transferring a batch of early sixties quarter inch tapes, I had >a few edits fall apart while I was taking phone calls or answering >calls of nature etc, unprofessional conduct under the circumstances >as we will see. The APR failing to realize the take up spool and the >supply reel were no longer connected, ran the take up spool op to >warp 9, flaying the end of the just copied piece of 50 year old >acetate. This isn't something we want to happen to a real piece of >history, which these tapes weren't, they were off-air recordings >from the BBC Pick Of The Pops, with the voice over chopped out, sorry Alan. > >Does someone have a mod in mind for this that doesn't involve >drilling the deckplate? Obviously there is currntly no moving part >on the mechanism between the capstan and the take up spool where I >could sneak in a microswitch, and I don't really want to trail >anything on the tape here that isn't a proper moving part. This is problematic in the design and something I worry about. Relocating the optical sensor to the right of the capstan might be possible, but would require cutting the cover plate. I think this is why Ampex originally located their "tape break swich" to the right of the capstan. I'm not sure if this was copied from the Magnetophon or was Ampex original engineering (or perhaps a Mullin mod to his Magnetophon), but it was certainly the trad. position for a tape break switch since the 300 and possibly the 200A. With that said, I think the Studer A807 might also suffer from this failing as the optical sensor and the tacho counter are both to the left of the capstan. On the other hand, the Studer does stop the transport if the tacho pulses stop, but this doesn't help in your situation. You being in Racal-land might want to consider re-equalizing (possibly in the DAW) a Racal Store 4DS instrumentation recorder which is one of the smoother transports available for up to 8-inch reels, but it has IRIG "Direct" EQ which is almost constant current record. MRL has a program that will let you calculate offsets between two EQ settings, or you can just play your test tape and make it flat later. Make sure you get enough DIRECT play cards on your machine. It also can be populated with FM cards. I am a real fan of this machine for certain applications. Search my blog (see link below under A80) for "racal". I think with 3" reels and thin tapes, I'd rather use an APR than a Studer A810, but the A810 does sense either tension arm dropping out. The A80 requires both tension plates to drop out before it stops the tape, so it, too, can suffer from the problem unless you mod one of the cards for either-tension-plate-dropout-stop which I have documented here: http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/06/02/studer-a80rc-mod-for-either-tension-sens\ or-stop/ Caution: one of my two A80s in the studio seems to have an intermittent on one of the two tension plates and will randomly stop with this mod while the second machine never randomly stops with this mod. I have spoken to someone who said I should look for hairline cracks on the sensor boards as people sometimes used them for handles to move the machine. I haven't gotten that far. Other than that, the mod works well. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1885 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:12 am Subject: Re: Tails Out On New Stock? arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Ozzie, I think also, that the "tape himself will never know, where is the beginning or end..." unless You will see red or green (or yellow or blue/white or red/white...etc ) colored leading tapes. But, there has been some practical consideration in the past, where some of the equipment did not wound the tapes smartly in fast reverse, but done it in playback. Therefore most of the tapes was let after playback on the "right reels" and did not reversed back into the supply reel. Also on the field, for example, working with Nagra, You will let the recorded tape material on the right hand reel and do not spool it back, to save battery life and time. I have not seen it with BASF material in all the years, and their tape material was not in "tail-out-spooled" and they have always been on "green" leading edge for 15cm reels and for AEG-mount (called bobbies...) it was just prepared to start as supply tape and was prepared for the left reel section. BTW... The mechanical strength and precision of the recording equipment will be seen on rewind and the tape material of 30cm diameter should wound strong enough and will remain on the "bobby" without any difficulty. In most of the lower rate machines, there is an air cushion remaining between tape because of the speed and uneven back-tension and it is just "walking" up and down and the rewinded tape is looking not very "nice" and within the time of waiting, it is uneven when playing back. Regards... Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: ozzie_b_music To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 12 February, 2010 08:24 Subject: [sony_apr] Tails Out On New Stock? Hi Guys, I've always had this burning question in the back of my mind. I have been using analog tape for over twenty years or so and always wondered if new tape stock was actually provided in the tails out state with the logo on the bottom of the reel. Here is the reason I'm asking this question; I have a special supply reel that I rarely remove from my machine and when a client provides me with a brand new tape for the session, I mount their tape with the logo down and rewind the new tape onto my supply reel. Then, of course I explain to the client what tails out mean and why it's necessary to load the tape in this fashion. And besides, most mastering houses prefer to receive analog tape in the tails out fashion as well, so I always make sure that's how they leave my shop. If in fact the new tape stock is not tails out, I would be very perplexed being that tails out has been some what of a standard now for many years. Since, there is a great deal of history here, I know some one will have the answer. In fact, I know you have the answer Richard so let's here it. Ozzie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1886 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:32 pm Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 02:39 AM 2010-02-15, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Please check also the small potentiometers in the sensor blocks for >continuity of the resistor values... There can be no contact for a >short while in the potentiometer while moving, which can cause this >sudden stop. > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL Hello, Arif, That is an interesting piece of information. I will expand upon my troubleshooting process for this particular problem. I have two A80 RCs in reasonably good running condition in my studio (there are things which I'd like to do to both including shotgun replacement of all the bearings). But in this case, I performed the mod on two of the cards as outlined here: http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/06/02/studer-a80rc-mod-for-either-tension-sens\ or-stop/ and one machine randomly stops after the mod was made but does not when I have an unmodified card installed. This mod deals with the tape break sensors on each of the tension arms, not with the position feedback potentiometers. The "Tape Tension End Switch" is actually a separate small circuit board from the tape tension assembly 1.081.144. Who knows, I could even have a spider living in my LED/Photosensor module . Normally, both the left and right tape break switches need to have been activated before the A80RC will stop. My mod will stop the machine for either tape-break switch when either tape-break switch is activated. The machine that intermittently stops with the mod works fine without the mod, so this points to one of the tape break switches being intermittent, I think, not the potentiometers, because those stay separate anyway. It it is good to know that a defective potentiometer will also stop the machine. Obviously, if both tape break switches need to activate to stop the machine normally, an intermittent on one of them would not stop the machine--until I add my mod . I guess I could disconnect one and run on one or the other for a while to isolate which one is failing, temporarily running the unused input to the -5.8 V rail. That would be easy. Thanks for the suggestions. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1887 From: Everett Moran Date: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:30 am Subject: (No subject) moranpro Offline Send Email This is crossposted because an A800, (2) M79s, and a JH-110 are all affected: I am requesting advice re the best method to keep these machines healthy in a non-climate controlled environment. They will be idle for up to a year, temperature ranging from about 40 to 80, fairly humid. I am in Port Townsend WA. Powered up in cold? No? Thanks in advance for your input. Everett Moran (206) 414-5801 ofc (720) 231-2423 cell (801) 218-5742 eFax Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1888 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:08 am Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, I did try to look into the details and I think, You have probably the A80RC-MK1or2, as there is already the change done with the optical "switches", which I have found on the FTP side of Studer... I do remember, that the unit, which I have had in the past and worked on, did have mechanical contacts. There is a change for the potentiometers in the following document. ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/Recording_Analog/A80RC_MkI-II/Technical_Info\ /SI_105-87_D-E_A80_TapeTensSensor_Mod.pdf You are right saying, that potentiometers and switches are running to different controls. And perhaps not a tiny "spider" running in the optical way but something in between can cause the problem, or there is something else on the modified board and the intermediate condition causes the priority encoder to switch off. With Your modification, You have done the a Boolean "OR" switch for TT1-ACT and TT2-ACT instead of "AND" in the original and this signal, YBI-END, has the next priority to STOP for tape transport logic. This signal is then only going via an optical isolator as Y-END signal to the audio and the failure should be on the command receiver board, (perhaps the correct nomenclature 1.081.393-81... ?) in the area of priority encoding. Perhaps a capacitor, 100nF, parallel to D15, zener, will help to find out, if the failure signal is really on the path of tape-tension. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2010 21:32 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... At 02:39 AM 2010-02-15, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Please check also the small potentiometers in the sensor blocks for >continuity of the resistor values... There can be no contact for a >short while in the potentiometer while moving, which can cause this >sudden stop. > >WBR > >Arif IYICIL Hello, Arif, That is an interesting piece of information. I will expand upon my troubleshooting process for this particular problem. I have two A80 RCs in reasonably good running condition in my studio (there are things which I'd like to do to both including shotgun replacement of all the bearings). But in this case, I performed the mod on two of the cards as outlined here: http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/06/02/studer-a80rc-mod-for-either-tension-sens\ or-stop/ and one machine randomly stops after the mod was made but does not when I have an unmodified card installed. This mod deals with the tape break sensors on each of the tension arms, not with the position feedback potentiometers. The "Tape Tension End Switch" is actually a separate small circuit board from the tape tension assembly 1.081.144. Who knows, I could even have a spider living in my LED/Photosensor module . Normally, both the left and right tape break switches need to have been activated before the A80RC will stop. My mod will stop the machine for either tape-break switch when either tape-break switch is activated. The machine that intermittently stops with the mod works fine without the mod, so this points to one of the tape break switches being intermittent, I think, not the potentiometers, because those stay separate anyway. It it is good to know that a defective potentiometer will also stop the machine. Obviously, if both tape break switches need to activate to stop the machine normally, an intermittent on one of them would not stop the machine--until I add my mod . I guess I could disconnect one and run on one or the other for a while to isolate which one is failing, temporarily running the unused input to the -5.8 V rail. That would be easy. Thanks for the suggestions. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1889 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:06 am Subject: Re: eddieaudio Offline Send Email Everett shrink wrapped in plastic with a bunch of giant silica gel packs in key places? eddie > > > This is crossposted because an A800, (2) M79s, and a JH-110 are all > affected: > > I am requesting advice re the best method to keep these machines > healthy in a non-climate controlled environment. They will be idle > for up to a year, temperature ranging from about 40 to 80, fairly > humid. I am in Port Townsend WA. Powered up in cold? No? > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > Everett Moran > (206) 414-5801 ofc > (720) 231-2423 cell > (801) 218-5742 eFax > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1890 From: "Thomas W. Bethel" Date: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:31 am Subject: Re: audiopro2000... Offline Send Email I am a big believer in not sealing up equipment in plastic. Sealing can cause condensation which is not good and silica packs can become useless with excessive humidity and can actually stain equipment (from personal experience). I would wrap them in loosely in moving blankets and make sure they are protected from vermin like mice and roaches and they should be fine. We stored some equipment in an unheated un air condioned garage for over a year using nothing but moving blankets loosely tied on with twine and both machines (MCI JH 110Cs) were in pristine condition when we fired them up. The moving blankets provide some insulation and protect the machines from scratches. Best of luck! -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 440-775-3681 www.acoustikmusik.com Doing what you love is freedom. Loving what you do is happiness. eddie ciletti wrote: > > > Everett > > shrink wrapped in plastic with a bunch of giant silica gel packs in key > places? > > eddie > > > > > > > This is crossposted because an A800, (2) M79s, and a JH-110 are all > > affected: > > > > I am requesting advice re the best method to keep these machines > > healthy in a non-climate controlled environment. They will be idle > > for up to a year, temperature ranging from about 40 to 80, fairly > > humid. I am in Port Townsend WA. Powered up in cold? No? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > > Everett Moran > > (206) 414-5801 ofc > > (720) 231-2423 cell > > (801) 218-5742 eFax > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1891 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:57 am Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 07:08 AM 2010-02-16, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: >There is a change for the potentiometers in the following document. > >ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/Recording_Analog/A80RC_MkI-II/Technical_Inf\ o/SI_105-87_D-E_A80_TapeTensSensor_Mod.pdf I believe that all four of my A80 RCs have this mod completed. >With Your modification, You have done the a Boolean "OR" switch for >TT1-ACT and TT2-ACT instead of "AND" in the original and this >signal, YBI-END, has the next priority to STOP for tape transport >logic. This signal is then only going via an optical isolator as >Y-END signal to the audio and the failure should be on the command >receiver board, (perhaps the correct nomenclature 1.081.393-81... ?) >in the area of priority encoding. I think we're still missing each other. Perhaps I still have left out information. I have two modified 393 cards and several unmodified 393 cards. The machine in question gives me random stops with either of the 393 cards installed. The other machine works fine as intended. The machine that causes problems with either of the modified 393 cards does not cause a problem with an unmodified 393 card installed. Therefore, I am convinced that the intermittent is on one of the two optical end-of-tape sensors and I just haven't spent the time to figure out which one and then look into it. I think the best step is to determine which one before I start looking--it's not the easiest thing to get to. Thanks, though, for all your assistance. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1892 From: "Nishith" Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:26 am Subject: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 nycehg Offline Send Email Hello, I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades Thanks in advance Nick Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1893 From: "Stuart Blacklock" Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:49 am Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 vintage_reco... Offline Send Email Hello Nick, I could be interested in the stands, The lifters are ceramic, very hard wearing, I don't think they can be rotated but I may be wrong, are they badly worn or just have surface marks? As for the bearings, I had an PCM-3402 which Is the digital version of these machines, I looked into replacing the bearings and chickened out as there is a tacho at the bottom of the motor glued in place as I was worried about damaging that, however there is someone who rebuilds these motors though I cant remember who it was, it was one of the members of this group who mentioned the guy. Thank you. From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nishith Sent: 19 February 2010 15:26 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 Hello, I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades Thanks in advance Nick No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2696 - Release Date: 02/18/10 19:34:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1894 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:59 am Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:49 AM 2010-02-19, Stuart Blacklock wrote: >Hello Nick, I could be interested in the stands, Is Nick in the UK? I don't recall him stating a location. >The lifters are ceramic, very hard wearing, I don't think they can be >rotated but I may be wrong, are they badly worn or just have surface marks? This is true of the 3402 and I _think_ all digital machines, but the early (1985-1986) analog machines did have metal tape lifters which are problematic due to wear AND potentially becoming magnetized (though that may be an urban legend. As to rebuilding the motors, I'm wondering if Precision Motor Works (or something like that, STEVE?) in New England (Mass?) USA does these motors. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1895 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:05 pm Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 kichoi... Offline Send Email Athan in CA US will rebuild the Sony APR capstan motor including replacing the bearing Nick wants. Although the price is kind of high at $575 for the service for 2" machine and may be less for 1/4" machines, I only heard good things about their work. http://www.athan.com/cgi-local/store.cgi?sid=69410516&product=1405 Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 11:49 AM 2010-02-19, Stuart Blacklock wrote: > >Hello Nick, I could be interested in the stands, > > Is Nick in the UK? I don't recall him stating a location. > > >The lifters are ceramic, very hard wearing, I don't think they can be > >rotated but I may be wrong, are they badly worn or just have surface marks? > > This is true of the 3402 and I _think_ all digital machines, but the > early (1985-1986) analog machines did have metal tape lifters which > are problematic due to wear AND potentially becoming magnetized > (though that may be an urban legend. > > As to rebuilding the motors, I'm wondering if Precision Motor Works > (or something like that, STEVE?) in New England (Mass?) USA does these motors. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1896 From: Nishith Doshi Date: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:05 pm Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 nycehg Offline Send Email Richard is right, these machines are the early version (built in 1986) with the steel lifters. anyone have ceramic lifters from a donor?  I am located in Virginia.  Nick --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: RE: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 11:59 AM  At 11:49 AM 2010-02-19, Stuart Blacklock wrote: >Hello Nick, I could be interested in the stands, Is Nick in the UK? I don't recall him stating a location. >The lifters are ceramic, very hard wearing, I don't think they can be >rotated but I may be wrong, are they badly worn or just have surface marks? This is true of the 3402 and I _think_ all digital machines, but the early (1985-1986) analog machines did have metal tape lifters which are problematic due to wear AND potentially becoming magnetized (though that may be an urban legend. As to rebuilding the motors, I'm wondering if Precision Motor Works (or something like that, STEVE?) in New England (Mass?) USA does these motors. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1897 From: "Cary" Date: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:33 pm Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 ladewd Offline Send Email Nick, I don't have lifters or a spare capstan motor, but I do have some spare parts. I would be interested in buying or trading for one of your stands. Can you send me an email. I will check my parts inventory and see what I may have to trade. I know I have an unused power supply, and some headstacks and extra channel cards. Thanks, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Nishith" wrote: > > Hello, > > I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group > > 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them > 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. > > I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades > > Thanks in advance > > Nick > Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1898 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:07 am Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Nick, Please check the following eBay link and contact the seller, who has several parts from a "cannibalized" APR and he once had tried to sell a capstan motor and I am sure, that he can still have it... http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-APR-5002-APR-5003-CPU-BOARD-1-619-161-12-FULL-WORK_W0QQ\ itemZ270487934667QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item3efa5656cb WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Nishith To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 19 February, 2010 17:26 Subject: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 Hello, I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades Thanks in advance Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1899 From: andrew morris Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:23 am Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 amorrisfullsail Offline Send Email I would not buy a used capstan hoping it is better than the one you have. capstans need to be rebuilt from time to time, why not do it now and have a few years of low flutter.  ironically everyone wants a stand right now. I remember wheeling out maybe a dozen of banged up stands when we moved the factory to Arvida. I would also not want to pay to ship one of those heavy buggers! --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: From: Arif IYICIL_T-M Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 5:07 AM  Dear Nick, Please check the following eBay link and contact the seller, who has several parts from a "cannibalized" APR and he once had tried to sell a capstan motor and I am sure, that he can still have it... http://cgi.ebay. com/SONY- APR-5002- APR-5003- CPU-BOARD- 1-619-161- 12-FULL-WORK_ W0QQitemZ2704879 34667QQcmdZViewI temQQptZVintage_ Electronics_ R2?hash=item3efa 5656cb WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Nishith To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Friday, 19 February, 2010 17:26 Subject: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 Hello, I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades Thanks in advance Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1900 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:03 am Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, I think, I have already understood You correctly, but wanted to add some more details to have a look in the peripheries... If You are certain, that the failure is coming really from optical end-of-tape-sensors, either from left or right, then I would check the saturation issues of the sensors, emitter diode and receptor transistor, and perhaps there is some voltage fluctuations, when the relays or similar are actuating somewhere else and the drop is causing, that a misleading signal is created. For sure You do have an oscilloscope and can check the behavior of the signals at the sensors, which will give You the right indication. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010 07:57 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... At 07:08 AM 2010-02-16, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: >There is a change for the potentiometers in the following document. > >ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/Recording_Analog/A80RC_MkI-II/Technical_Inf\ o/SI_105-87_D-E_A80_TapeTensSensor_Mod.pdf I believe that all four of my A80 RCs have this mod completed. >With Your modification, You have done the a Boolean "OR" switch for >TT1-ACT and TT2-ACT instead of "AND" in the original and this >signal, YBI-END, has the next priority to STOP for tape transport >logic. This signal is then only going via an optical isolator as >Y-END signal to the audio and the failure should be on the command >receiver board, (perhaps the correct nomenclature 1.081.393-81... ?) >in the area of priority encoding. I think we're still missing each other. Perhaps I still have left out information. I have two modified 393 cards and several unmodified 393 cards. The machine in question gives me random stops with either of the 393 cards installed. The other machine works fine as intended. The machine that causes problems with either of the modified 393 cards does not cause a problem with an unmodified 393 card installed. Therefore, I am convinced that the intermittent is on one of the two optical end-of-tape sensors and I just haven't spent the time to figure out which one and then look into it. I think the best step is to determine which one before I start looking--it's not the easiest thing to get to. Thanks, though, for all your assistance. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1901 From: Nishith Doshi Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:06 pm Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 nycehg Offline Send Email Thanks for the info.  Here is what I have learned this past weekend from working on the machines  The lifters can be rotated carefully by heating the aluminum block and then rotating the lifter so that an unworn side now faces the tape. The head shields respond very well to cleaning and I have ordered a couple of different types of fans to see which one ends up being the quietest.  Overall, these are really good machines.  Does anyone know if there were ever 1/4 track heads for the apr 5000 series?  Nick --- On Mon, 2/22/10, andrew morris wrote: From: andrew morris Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 8:23 AM  I would not buy a used capstan hoping it is better than the one you have. capstans need to be rebuilt from time to time, why not do it now and have a few years of low flutter.  ironically everyone wants a stand right now. I remember wheeling out maybe a dozen of banged up stands when we moved the factory to Arvida. I would also not want to pay to ship one of those heavy buggers! --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: From: Arif IYICIL_T-M Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 5:07 AM  Dear Nick, Please check the following eBay link and contact the seller, who has several parts from a "cannibalized" APR and he once had tried to sell a capstan motor and I am sure, that he can still have it... http://cgi.ebay. com/SONY- APR-5002- APR-5003- CPU-BOARD- 1-619-161- 12-FULL-WORK_ W0QQitemZ2704879 34667QQcmdZViewI temQQptZVintage_ Electronics_ R2?hash=item3efa 5656cb WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Nishith To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Friday, 19 February, 2010 17:26 Subject: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 Hello, I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice might be. I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be using and might be open to offers/trades Thanks in advance Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1902 From: Scott Phillips Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:41 pm Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email On the question of 1/4 track heads, they were available as a factory option, although during the time I worked there I can't say I saw any come through production. In any case, it should be easy to fit a set to them after the fact. Depending on the prior configuration of the machine, you might have to set the DIP switch settings on the headstacks differently. Richard would have to be the current 'go to' guy for changing formats on the APR. The electronics was set up to allow for the 1/4 track format among others as long as the switches were set right and the machine then aligned for it. I remember doing QA prototype testing with that format as well as 1/4" 2 track, 1/2" 2 track, 1/4" mono, 1/2" mono, 1/4" 2 track w/time code and even a 1/2" w/time code with purpose built heads for the testing. Understandably, if you mount heads with different characteristics than the ones the machine was spec'd for, you might have to spend some time fiddlng with various alignment parameters to get the response you want, and I'm sure that for some heads you might not be able to come up with flat response. That said, it can and does work with a LOT of different ones if you take the time to do it. Heck, I wouldn't be that shocked to find out even cassette tape would work with the right heads and custom guides, not that I'd try. Scott Scott On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Nishith Doshi wrote: > > > Thanks for the info. > > Here is what I have learned this past weekend from working on the machines > > The lifters can be rotated carefully by heating the aluminum block and then > rotating the lifter so that an unworn side now faces the tape. > The head shields respond very well to cleaning and I have ordered a couple > of different types of fans to see which one ends up being the quietest. > > Overall, these are really good machines. > > Does anyone know if there were ever 1/4 track heads for the apr 5000 > series? > > Nick > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, andrew morris > > wrote: > > From: andrew morris > > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 8:23 AM > > > > I would not buy a used capstan hoping it is better than the one you have. > capstans need to be rebuilt from time to time, why not do it now and have a > few years of low flutter. > > ironically everyone wants a stand right now. I remember wheeling out maybe > a dozen of banged up stands when we moved the factory to Arvida. I would > also not want to pay to ship one of those heavy buggers! > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Arif IYICIL_T-M . tr> > wrote: > > From: Arif IYICIL_T-M . tr> > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 5:07 AM > > > > Dear Nick, > > Please check the following eBay link and contact the seller, who has > several parts from a "cannibalized" APR and he once had tried to sell a > capstan motor and I am sure, that he can still have it... > > http://cgi.ebay. com/SONY- APR-5002- APR-5003- CPU-BOARD- 1-619-161- > 12-FULL-WORK_ W0QQitemZ2704879 34667QQcmdZViewI temQQptZVintage_ > Electronics_ R2?hash=item3efa 5656cb > > WBR > > Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nishith > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Sent: Friday, 19 February, 2010 17:26 > Subject: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 > > Hello, > > I picked up 2 machines this past week. 5002 and 5003. they are both the > older style with steel guides. I have a couple of questions for the group > > 1- is there anyone that has/makes replacement lifters for these machines? > the lifters are worn and I dont think there is a way to rotate them > 2- the 5003 has more capstan bearing noise that it should and I'm wondering > if anyone has replaced bearings on these or who the rebuild vendor of choice > might be. > > I also have a pair of roll stands for these machines that I will not be > using and might be open to offers/trades > > Thanks in advance > > Nick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1903 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:21 pm Subject: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... kichoi... Offline Send Email Hi Richard: One of my audio friends has an A80RC Mk II with the optical end-of-tape sendor lamp out but his machine operates properly with the tape and stops as it should at the end of the tape. According to Martin Berner, the optical end-of-tape sensor doesn't stop the machine. It only stops the tape counter. I believe your left tape tension arm pot has perhaps a wornout spot or the circuit related to the pot is causing the intermitten stops. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Arif IYICIL_T-M" wrote: > > Dear Richard, > > I think, I have already understood You correctly, but wanted to add some more details to have a look in the peripheries... > > If You are certain, that the failure is coming really from optical end-of-tape-sensors, either from left or right, then I would check the saturation issues of the sensors, emitter diode and receptor transistor, and perhaps there is some voltage fluctuations, when the relays or similar are actuating somewhere else and the drop is causing, that a misleading signal is created. > > For sure You do have an oscilloscope and can check the behavior of the signals at the sensors, which will give You the right indication. > > WBR > > Arif IYICIL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, 17 February, 2010 07:57 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... > > > > At 07:08 AM 2010-02-16, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: > > >There is a change for the potentiometers in the following document. > > > >ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/Recording_Analog/A80RC_MkI-II/Technical_Inf\ o/SI_105-87_D-E_A80_TapeTensSensor_Mod.pdf > > I believe that all four of my A80 RCs have this mod completed. > > >With Your modification, You have done the a Boolean "OR" switch for > >TT1-ACT and TT2-ACT instead of "AND" in the original and this > >signal, YBI-END, has the next priority to STOP for tape transport > >logic. This signal is then only going via an optical isolator as > >Y-END signal to the audio and the failure should be on the command > >receiver board, (perhaps the correct nomenclature 1.081.393-81... ?) > >in the area of priority encoding. > > I think we're still missing each other. Perhaps I still have left out > information. > > I have two modified 393 cards and several unmodified 393 cards. The > machine in question gives me random stops with either of the 393 > cards installed. The other machine works fine as intended. > > The machine that causes problems with either of the modified 393 > cards does not cause a problem with an unmodified 393 card installed. > > Therefore, I am convinced that the intermittent is on one of the two > optical end-of-tape sensors and I just haven't spent the time to > figure out which one and then look into it. > > I think the best step is to determine which one before I start > looking--it's not the easiest thing to get to. > > Thanks, though, for all your assistance. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1904 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:32 pm Subject: Re: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 12:41 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >On the question of 1/4 track heads, they were available as a factory option, >although during the time I worked there I can't say I saw any come through >production. In any case, it should be easy to fit a set to them after the >fact. If the new owner has the wideface heads, finding an easy-to-mount 1/4-track head might be a bit difficult. If the machines both have the brass-looking, almost-cube-form-factor Woelke Record/Play heads, then finding a replacement head is much easier. The key thing is to get a head in the 80-100 mH range, but you can align the machine reasonably well with lower and higher inductances. With higher inductances, it will be harder to nail 20 kHz response (and, at some point, impossible). With lower inductances (in the 20 mH range), I would suspect that you'd start seeing some signal-to-noise degradation. The neat thing about the APR tape preamp is the LM394 which is one of the quietest front ends ever. It has been superceded by some new chips as I found out in a recent discussion, but it's still superb. The big challenge in selecting a head is to get one with a narrow gap length. 50 µin is better than 100 µin as we're fighting response issues at 20 kHz at 3.75 in/s--wavelength 188 µin. One trick to getting better high-frequency response which I have not tried is to use a resonant capacitor on the head. Jay McKnight has some useful information in that regard on his website. http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gap-length-response.pdf http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gapeq.exe http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gapeq.seq The PDF is the paper describing the work. The SEQ is the FORTH source code and also contains the embedded instructions/documentation. The EXE is the PC runnable executable version. >Depending on the prior configuration of the machine, you might have to >set the DIP switch settings on the headstacks differently. Richard would >have to be the current 'go to' guy for changing formats on the APR. Let's assume that you have Woelke heads on both of your head assemblies. I would leave the Timecode assembly alone (especially if it's not too worn) and use that as a 7.5/15/30 two-track assembly for record/play. Then I would consider removing the record head from the other assembly and installing a 5PDT rotary switch at the back. Wire it so that you can select either of the two heads into the play input (that's four poles) and then wire it so that you "close" a DIP switch selecting another head memory location. The caveats are select a stereo or three-channel location for 1/4-inch tape. Then set this to LOW so you'll have a 3.75/7.5/15 machine for this. You must power down when you change the "DIP" switch setting for it to be recognized. There is a firmware bug that when you change speeds the machine reverts to a high-speed mode, but power down fixes that. With the bug, if you're at 3.75 and you press the speed button the machine goes to 15, but when you power down and back up it runs at 7.5. This bug was fixed in version P4.02.01.6. P4.02.01.5 has it. I have never transplanted firmware, but other list members may have. >The >electronics was set up to allow for the 1/4 track format among others as >long as the switches were set right and the machine then aligned for it. The neat thing about the above description is you now have a dual-purpose head assembly with completely separate alignment for 1/4 and 1/2 track. >I >remember doing QA prototype testing with that format as well as 1/4" 2 >track, 1/2" 2 track, 1/4" mono, 1/2" mono, 1/4" 2 track w/time code and even >a 1/2" w/time code with purpose built heads for the testing. Scott: This is most interesting as I have been trying to determine if centre track timecode (CTTC) was ever actually implemented on 1/2" tape. It would make sense to me that it was as this would give huge S/N and other benefits, but, at this point, I have never found a reference for it. I assume it was centre track, but there would be nothing keeping it off the edge, I guess. Both my 1/2" 2-track head assemblies are stereo without CTTC. One was made from NOS heads I got from Cary while the other was a used unit I bought somehow--it's a long story. >Understandably, >if you mount heads with different characteristics than the ones the machine >was spec'd for, you might have to spend some time fiddlng with various >alignment parameters to get the response you want, and I'm sure that for >some heads you might not be able to come up with flat response. The biggest challenge is 20 kHz response at 3.75 in/s and then whatever highs you can get at 1.88 in/s (3.75 in/s - 50% varispeed) and using 3.75 in/s EQ "C" for that speed leaving "A" and "B" for real 3.75 in/s use. >That said, it can and does work with a LOT of >different ones if you take the time to do >it. It does. I have an Applied Magnetics Woelke IRIG 7-track set out of a Racal Store 4DS working well in my APR-16. http://www.geogrations.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop >Heck, I wouldn't be that shocked to find out even cassette tape would >work with the right heads and custom guides, not that I'd try. Why not?? Here's my dilemma. I do not see the Nakamichi Dragons lasting as long as the Sony APRs or the Studer A80s. How do we "do" cassette tapes down the road. I missed the chance to buy some Studer A80 QC units, but they are so big and the issue of removing the cassette from the shell is a challenge--though Studer or a 3rd party made an in-cassette adapter, but I wonder about the leads. The A80QC is a unique design and, like the Dragon, has two capstans and a closed-loop drive. I'm not sure how much detriment you'd get with the single capstan drive of the APR-5000, but I have thought more than once about an APR-5000QC . Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1905 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 pm Subject: Re: Re: Intermnediate contact for A80, tension arm... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ki, This has become a severely off-topic thread, but thanks for the input. The A80RC issue was only detected when I "OR'd" instead of "AND'd" the two optical end-of-tape sensors on the tension plates(arms). This was done by the mod here: http://richardhess.com/notes/2008/06/02/studer-a80rc-mod-for-either-tension-sens\ or-stop/ Which Arif kindly documented all of the signal names for. What I need to do, as Arif suggested, is figure out a way to capture which of the two tension arms is triggering the stop. I can do that with a storage scope looking at the two signals, or I can bypass one for a while. The challenge is it only seems to happen every 5-15 MINUTES. When the two end-of-tape sensors on the tension plates (arms) are AND'd, there are no false stops on machine "B". When they are OR'd, there are false stops on machine "B". Machine "A" does not have any false stops with the either the normal AND'd card or the modified OR'd card. This issue has nothing to do with the "light gate" in the head block, which I have removed on my two production machines. Thanks for the input. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1906 From: Les Lambert Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:53 pm Subject: Re: Sony APR 5004? 5004cassette les_lmbrt Offline Send Email I too have started thinking about the 1/4trk head, planning to use a spare mci 1/4in head shoe that I have, in place of the cttc head. Too busy to start yet, just got dragged into an archive project for a few months. If secrecy turns out not to be required, I will let you know how we do with some of the more interesting aspects. If not I will leave a sealed envelope to be opened after my death by my grandchildren in the haunted house on the hill. An FX tape may well be required, format to be advised. Mitsubishi 32trk with Telcom? But back on Earth. Cassettes. I bought a few Marantz 520 dual well as they describe them, when Sony's UK studio was closed. Can't fault them myself, still using the first one, first well, 400 cassettes transferred, from 1972 onwards.Each well has dual speed,and varispeed, so one can stay concert and remain with a calibrated azimuth. Dolby C tracked the Pro Walkman series tapes other machines had mistracked. I even retrieved 1980s synth data and made wav files. Cassette now passe here. Maybe if someone would like to tackle the engineering part of an APR cassette conversion I could send you a transport or two to start with. What about it? Cassette with centre track timecode? Doh! --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Richard L. Hess wrote: From: Richard L. Hess Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 19:32  At 12:41 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >On the question of 1/4 track heads, they were available as a factory option, >although during the time I worked there I can't say I saw any come through >production. In any case, it should be easy to fit a set to them after the >fact. If the new owner has the wideface heads, finding an easy-to-mount 1/4-track head might be a bit difficult. If the machines both have the brass-looking, almost-cube- form-factor Woelke Record/Play heads, then finding a replacement head is much easier. The key thing is to get a head in the 80-100 mH range, but you can align the machine reasonably well with lower and higher inductances. With higher inductances, it will be harder to nail 20 kHz response (and, at some point, impossible). With lower inductances (in the 20 mH range), I would suspect that you'd start seeing some signal-to-noise degradation. The neat thing about the APR tape preamp is the LM394 which is one of the quietest front ends ever. It has been superceded by some new chips as I found out in a recent discussion, but it's still superb. The big challenge in selecting a head is to get one with a narrow gap length. 50 µin is better than 100 µin as we're fighting response issues at 20 kHz at 3.75 in/s--wavelength 188 µin. One trick to getting better high-frequency response which I have not tried is to use a resonant capacitor on the head. Jay McKnight has some useful information in that regard on his website. http://home. comcast.net/ ~mrltapes/ mcknight_ gap-length- response. pdf http://home. comcast.net/ ~mrltapes/ mcknight_ gapeq.exe http://home. comcast.net/ ~mrltapes/ mcknight_ gapeq.seq The PDF is the paper describing the work. The SEQ is the FORTH source code and also contains the embedded instructions/ documentation. The EXE is the PC runnable executable version. >Depending on the prior configuration of the machine, you might have to >set the DIP switch settings on the headstacks differently. Richard would >have to be the current 'go to' guy for changing formats on the APR. Let's assume that you have Woelke heads on both of your head assemblies. I would leave the Timecode assembly alone (especially if it's not too worn) and use that as a 7.5/15/30 two-track assembly for record/play. Then I would consider removing the record head from the other assembly and installing a 5PDT rotary switch at the back. Wire it so that you can select either of the two heads into the play input (that's four poles) and then wire it so that you "close" a DIP switch selecting another head memory location. The caveats are select a stereo or three-channel location for 1/4-inch tape. Then set this to LOW so you'll have a 3.75/7.5/15 machine for this. You must power down when you change the "DIP" switch setting for it to be recognized. There is a firmware bug that when you change speeds the machine reverts to a high-speed mode, but power down fixes that. With the bug, if you're at 3.75 and you press the speed button the machine goes to 15, but when you power down and back up it runs at 7.5. This bug was fixed in version P4.02.01.6. P4.02.01.5 has it. I have never transplanted firmware, but other list members may have. >The >electronics was set up to allow for the 1/4 track format among others as >long as the switches were set right and the machine then aligned for it. The neat thing about the above description is you now have a dual-purpose head assembly with completely separate alignment for 1/4 and 1/2 track. >I >remember doing QA prototype testing with that format as well as 1/4" 2 >track, 1/2" 2 track, 1/4" mono, 1/2" mono, 1/4" 2 track w/time code and even >a 1/2" w/time code with purpose built heads for the testing. Scott: This is most interesting as I have been trying to determine if centre track timecode (CTTC) was ever actually implemented on 1/2" tape. It would make sense to me that it was as this would give huge S/N and other benefits, but, at this point, I have never found a reference for it. I assume it was centre track, but there would be nothing keeping it off the edge, I guess. Both my 1/2" 2-track head assemblies are stereo without CTTC. One was made from NOS heads I got from Cary while the other was a used unit I bought somehow--it' s a long story. >Understandably, >if you mount heads with different characteristics than the ones the machine >was spec'd for, you might have to spend some time fiddlng with various >alignment parameters to get the response you want, and I'm sure that for >some heads you might not be able to come up with flat response. The biggest challenge is 20 kHz response at 3.75 in/s and then whatever highs you can get at 1.88 in/s (3.75 in/s - 50% varispeed) and using 3.75 in/s EQ "C" for that speed leaving "A" and "B" for real 3.75 in/s use. >That said, it can and does work with a LOT of >different ones if you take the time to do >it. It does. I have an Applied Magnetics Woelke IRIG 7-track set out of a Racal Store 4DS working well in my APR-16. http://www.geograti ons.com/Academic /Flathead/ History/History1 .html#Develop >Heck, I wouldn't be that shocked to find out even cassette tape would >work with the right heads and custom guides, not that I'd try. Why not?? Here's my dilemma. I do not see the Nakamichi Dragons lasting as long as the Sony APRs or the Studer A80s. How do we "do" cassette tapes down the road. I missed the chance to buy some Studer A80 QC units, but they are so big and the issue of removing the cassette from the shell is a challenge--though Studer or a 3rd party made an in-cassette adapter, but I wonder about the leads. The A80QC is a unique design and, like the Dragon, has two capstans and a closed-loop drive. I'm not sure how much detriment you'd get with the single capstan drive of the APR-5000, but I have thought more than once about an APR-5000QC . Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/ contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1907 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:16 pm Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email Richard, As I recall these were entirely one-off hand made heads just to test proof of concept. I do recall very, very good specs in my testing. I didn’t get a chance to do blind listening tests due circumstances at the time, but the measurements were really good. Better yet, as I recall the stability of the time code itself was much improved over the ¼” stack as well. The machine was unmodified except for the dip switches, regular alignment settings (of course), and the user settable head comp settings in the alignment settings. LONG time ago that all was, now I really feel old… :>) Your comments on the head inductance is right on the money. I must be slipping, I had forgotten about the wide profile heads… That would make for interesting head mounting situations. I’m sure John French could help out, as always. Scott _____ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com; sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 At 12:41 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >On the question of 1/4 track heads, they were available as a factory option, >although during the time I worked there I can't say I saw any come through >production. In any case, it should be easy to fit a set to them after the >fact. If the new owner has the wideface heads, finding an easy-to-mount 1/4-track head might be a bit difficult. If the machines both have the brass-looking, almost-cube-form-factor Woelke Record/Play heads, then finding a replacement head is much easier. The key thing is to get a head in the 80-100 mH range, but you can align the machine reasonably well with lower and higher inductances. With higher inductances, it will be harder to nail 20 kHz response (and, at some point, impossible). With lower inductances (in the 20 mH range), I would suspect that you'd start seeing some signal-to-noise degradation. The neat thing about the APR tape preamp is the LM394 which is one of the quietest front ends ever. It has been superceded by some new chips as I found out in a recent discussion, but it's still superb. The big challenge in selecting a head is to get one with a narrow gap length. 50 µin is better than 100 µin as we're fighting response issues at 20 kHz at 3.75 in/s--wavelength 188 µin. One trick to getting better high-frequency response which I have not tried is to use a resonant capacitor on the head. Jay McKnight has some useful information in that regard on his website. http://home. comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gap-length-response.pdf http://home. comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gapeq.exe http://home. comcast.net/~mrltapes/mcknight_gapeq.seq The PDF is the paper describing the work. The SEQ is the FORTH source code and also contains the embedded instructions/documentation. The EXE is the PC runnable executable version. >Depending on the prior configuration of the machine, you might have to >set the DIP switch settings on the headstacks differently. Richard would >have to be the current 'go to' guy for changing formats on the APR. Let's assume that you have Woelke heads on both of your head assemblies. I would leave the Timecode assembly alone (especially if it's not too worn) and use that as a 7.5/15/30 two-track assembly for record/play. Then I would consider removing the record head from the other assembly and installing a 5PDT rotary switch at the back. Wire it so that you can select either of the two heads into the play input (that's four poles) and then wire it so that you "close" a DIP switch selecting another head memory location. The caveats are select a stereo or three-channel location for 1/4-inch tape. Then set this to LOW so you'll have a 3.75/7.5/15 machine for this. You must power down when you change the "DIP" switch setting for it to be recognized. There is a firmware bug that when you change speeds the machine reverts to a high-speed mode, but power down fixes that. With the bug, if you're at 3.75 and you press the speed button the machine goes to 15, but when you power down and back up it runs at 7.5. This bug was fixed in version P4.02.01.6. P4.02.01.5 has it. I have never transplanted firmware, but other list members may have. >The >electronics was set up to allow for the 1/4 track format among others as >long as the switches were set right and the machine then aligned for it. The neat thing about the above description is you now have a dual-purpose head assembly with completely separate alignment for 1/4 and 1/2 track. >I >remember doing QA prototype testing with that format as well as 1/4" 2 >track, 1/2" 2 track, 1/4" mono, 1/2" mono, 1/4" 2 track w/time code and even >a 1/2" w/time code with purpose built heads for the testing. Scott: This is most interesting as I have been trying to determine if centre track timecode (CTTC) was ever actually implemented on 1/2" tape. It would make sense to me that it was as this would give huge S/N and other benefits, but, at this point, I have never found a reference for it. I assume it was centre track, but there would be nothing keeping it off the edge, I guess. Both my 1/2" 2-track head assemblies are stereo without CTTC. One was made from NOS heads I got from Cary while the other was a used unit I bought somehow--it's a long story. >Understandably, >if you mount heads with different characteristics than the ones the machine >was spec'd for, you might have to spend some time fiddlng with various >alignment parameters to get the response you want, and I'm sure that for >some heads you might not be able to come up with flat response. The biggest challenge is 20 kHz response at 3.75 in/s and then whatever highs you can get at 1.88 in/s (3.75 in/s - 50% varispeed) and using 3.75 in/s EQ "C" for that speed leaving "A" and "B" for real 3.75 in/s use. >That said, it can and does work with a LOT of >different ones if you take the time to do >it. It does. I have an Applied Magnetics Woelke IRIG 7-track set out of a Racal Store 4DS working well in my APR-16. http://www.geograti ons.com/Academic/Flathead/History/History1.html#Develop >Heck, I wouldn't be that shocked to find out even cassette tape would >work with the right heads and custom guides, not that I'd try. Why not?? Here's my dilemma. I do not see the Nakamichi Dragons lasting as long as the Sony APRs or the Studer A80s. How do we "do" cassette tapes down the road. I missed the chance to buy some Studer A80 QC units, but they are so big and the issue of removing the cassette from the shell is a challenge--though Studer or a 3rd party made an in-cassette adapter, but I wonder about the leads. The A80QC is a unique design and, like the Dragon, has two capstans and a closed-loop drive. I'm not sure how much detriment you'd get with the single capstan drive of the APR-5000, but I have thought more than once about an APR-5000QC . Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1908 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:33 pm Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 richardlhess Offline Send Email At 03:16 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >As I recall these were entirely one-off hand made heads just to test proof >of concept. I do recall very, very good specs in my testing. I didn’t get a >chance to do blind listening tests due circumstances at the time, but the >measurements were really good. This is not a surprise. I think the Germans really nailed it with 6.5 mm / track and 77 cm/s as a good compromise between azimuth and areal density. Knowing what we know now about 30 in/s LF performance, 1/2-inch 2-track seems to be about optimum. >Better yet, as I recall the stability of the >time code itself was much improved over the ¼” stack as well. This, too, is not a surprise, but TC from the early 1980s on 4-track 1/2-inch doesn't even play back perfectly. Neither my MOTU nor the APR-16 would totally reconstruct the timecode on the first tape of a batch of 114 I played. I left the MOTU 828 MK II in "freewheeling" mode so that if TC dropped, it tries to continue at the same pace instead of stopping the recording. Grrrr. >The machine was unmodified except for the dip >switches, regular alignment settings (of >course), and the user settable head comp settings in the alignment settings. >LONG time ago that all was, now I really feel old… :>) Oh, stop it...we're all in this boat together. >Your comments on the head inductance is right on the money. I must be >slipping, I had forgotten about the wide profile heads… That would make for >interesting head mounting situations. I’m sure John French could help out, >as always. And, I forgot to mention that www.jrfmagnetics.com is now the source of the remaining Nortronics heads. He bought out Joe Dundovic's basement. I don't know how many more 1/4-track stereo heads suitable for APR use are available. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1909 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:46 pm Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I just caught up with a few of the posts on the list. I wonder if the fellow with the JH24 record card got help. I'd have to strain my memory a bit, but I was quite familiar with those cards. They are all Functionally compatible with each other, but there are a pretty fair number of revisions to artwork and some component values. There was a change to nitrogen filled record relays, but the only big difference that I remember was that the last models of the card added a transformer tacked on a sub-pcb on top. If memory serves this was either to reduce noise in cue mode or improve cue mode low end by better matching the record head winding to the circuit while in cue playback mode, or something like that. Low frequency 30ips cue performance was pretty lousy normally, it just rolled off early. That card still works in older machines, but I THINK it had the unintended result of bringing up 60hz hum as well. I do remember thinking that the whole idea was pretty half baked, and not a good trade at all. As I recall nearly any other version (and in fact even the transformer one if the transformer PCB was removed) of the record card could be made to perform like any other version if you took the time to adjust component values to match. Not a major project, just the usual careful checking of actual values present. The artwork stayed enough similar that it wasn't hard to figure what went where, but the manual was really only good for the diagram. Revision notes on the diagram might or might not actually reflect what reality was for a given machine. All of this assumes that the JH24 reference was to the 2” 24 track that didn’t have the blond colored deck plate, some of those are not JH24 machines, but (someone correct me if I am wrong here) were JH16/24. These had entirely different audio electronics, although the transports were very similar. Scott _____ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 At 03:16 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >As I recall these were entirely one-off hand made heads just to test proof >of concept. I do recall very, very good specs in my testing. I didn’t get a >chance to do blind listening tests due circumstances at the time, but the >measurements were really good. This is not a surprise. I think the Germans really nailed it with 6.5 mm / track and 77 cm/s as a good compromise between azimuth and areal density. Knowing what we know now about 30 in/s LF performance, 1/2-inch 2-track seems to be about optimum. >Better yet, as I recall the stability of the >time code itself was much improved over the ¼” stack as well. This, too, is not a surprise, but TC from the early 1980s on 4-track 1/2-inch doesn't even play back perfectly. Neither my MOTU nor the APR-16 would totally reconstruct the timecode on the first tape of a batch of 114 I played. I left the MOTU 828 MK II in "freewheeling" mode so that if TC dropped, it tries to continue at the same pace instead of stopping the recording. Grrrr. >The machine was unmodified except for the dip >switches, regular alignment settings (of >course), and the user settable head comp settings in the alignment settings. >LONG time ago that all was, now I really feel old… :>) Oh, stop it...we're all in this boat together. >Your comments on the head inductance is right on the money. I must be >slipping, I had forgotten about the wide profile heads… That would make for >interesting head mounting situations. I’m sure John French could help out, >as always. And, I forgot to mention that www.jrfmagnetics.com is now the source of the remaining Nortronics heads. He bought out Joe Dundovic's basement. I don't know how many more 1/4-track stereo heads suitable for APR use are available. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1910 From: Dana White Date: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:49 pm Subject: head gap specs djwaudio Offline Send Email Hi everyone. I'm about to align my machine with some ATR tape for the first time. Does anyone know what the head width spec is on the APR 5000's. I'm running both 1/2" and 1/4" if they are different. Sincerely, Dana Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1911 From: "Scott Phillips" Date: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:46 pm Subject: RE: New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 ScottHPhillips Offline Send Email I recall at Criteria Studios in Miami, where I worked, we fiddled with the R/P EQ on the machines on whatever track was going to have TC on it. I seem to remember that when we looked at the record side with a flux loop and a storage scope that by using much less EQ in the TC track alignments there was much less ‘ringing’ of the waveform and thus much reduced TC read errors. Those were JH series machines, so I’d guess that every manufacturers machines would react differently. Obviously crosstalk in the R/P heads were also a factor. You’d think that the further apart the track gaps were on the head, the less crosstalk you would get. On more than one occasion though I found that NOT to be the case, although while any given machine seemed to have a pattern in this regard, between different machines even of the same model recorder could be wildly different. I worked on a large number of 48 / 72 track sessions using multiple analog machines locked with TC, sometimes with a video tape machine as master TC. WHAT a hassle !! ALWAYS had to watch what type of program material you put on those tracks next to the TC. Some people always put the TC on an edge track, leaving it more vulnerable to dropouts and tape path issues. No free lunch on analog…. Scott _____ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:33 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [sony_apr] New owner - Sony APR 5002/3 At 03:16 PM 2010-02-22, Scott Phillips wrote: >As I recall these were entirely one-off hand made heads just to test proof >of concept. I do recall very, very good specs in my testing. I didn’t get a >chance to do blind listening tests due circumstances at the time, but the >measurements were really good. This is not a surprise. I think the Germans really nailed it with 6.5 mm / track and 77 cm/s as a good compromise between azimuth and areal density. Knowing what we know now about 30 in/s LF performance, 1/2-inch 2-track seems to be about optimum. >Better yet, as I recall the stability of the >time code itself was much improved over the ¼” stack as well. This, too, is not a surprise, but TC from the early 1980s on 4-track 1/2-inch doesn't even play back perfectly. Neither my MOTU nor the APR-16 would totally reconstruct the timecode on the first tape of a batch of 114 I played. I left the MOTU 828 MK II in "freewheeling" mode so that if TC dropped, it tries to continue at the same pace instead of stopping the recording. Grrrr. >The machine was unmodified except for the dip >switches, regular alignment settings (of >course), and the user settable head comp settings in the alignment settings. >LONG time ago that all was, now I really feel old… :>) Oh, stop it...we're all in this boat together. >Your comments on the head inductance is right on the money. I must be >slipping, I had forgotten about the wide profile heads… That would make for >interesting head mounting situations. I’m sure John French could help out, >as always. And, I forgot to mention that www.jrfmagnetics.com is now the source of the remaining Nortronics heads. He bought out Joe Dundovic's basement. I don't know how many more 1/4-track stereo heads suitable for APR use are available. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (15) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1912 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:51 pm Subject: WTB:Sony RM-5010 Remote Control ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hi Guys, I don't know if I posted this request before because I'm unable to search the group. But, if anyone has a RM-5010 remote control unit not being used and would like to sell it, please email me with your price. Thanks, Ozzie Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1913 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:59 pm Subject: Re: WTB:Sony RM-5010 Remote Control richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Ozzie, Several of these have shown up on ePay recently, so setting a search on ePay for that would be useful. Maybe there will be more. Cheers, Richard At 05:51 PM 2010-02-25, you wrote: >Hi Guys, I don't know if I posted this request before because I'm >unable to search the group. But, if anyone has a RM-5010 remote >control unit not being used and would like to sell it, please email >me with your price. > >Thanks, > >Ozzie > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1914 From: "ozzie_b_music" Date: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:13 pm Subject: Re: WTB:Sony RM-5010 Remote Control ozzie_b_music Offline Send Email Hey Richard, Yeah, I have a search setup on ePay(LOL). I actually made an offer for the last one listed but it was rejected by the seller. :-) --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > Hi, Ozzie, > > Several of these have shown up on ePay recently, so setting a search > on ePay for that would be useful. Maybe there will be more. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 05:51 PM 2010-02-25, you wrote: > >Hi Guys, I don't know if I posted this request before because I'm > >unable to search the group. But, if anyone has a RM-5010 remote > >control unit not being used and would like to sell it, please email > >me with your price. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ozzie > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1915 From: John McDaniel Date: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:27 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB:Sony RM-5010 Remote Control sonicartsson... Offline Send Email What did you offer? j mcd On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:13 PM, ozzie_b_music wrote: > Yeah, I have a search setup on ePay(LOL). I actually made an offer > for the last one listed but it was rejected by the seller. :-) --- John McDaniel --- Reply | Messages in this Topic (4) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1916 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue Mar 2, 2010 10:56 pm Subject: Dolby SR tape without SR Noise richardlhess Offline Send Email How would you calibrate a Dolby SR card to play a tape that does not have SR noise? It has presumably Dolby-level tones (but not Dolby A tone). I have Cat 280 cards in an M-frame, though I guess I could put them in 361 frames if that makes it easier. I have some ideas that I'm going to try, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has done this. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1917 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 1:05 am Subject: Re: Dolby SR tape without SR Noise engjch13 Offline Send Email If I'm reading the manual (and remembering) correctly, isn't Dolby tone typically recorded at 0VU (your ref. flux level), so if there's a 1Khz tone (or Dolby tone) at 0VU, should that not be set on the Dolby level mark too? Jeff Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > How would you calibrate a Dolby SR card to play a tape that does not > have SR noise? It has presumably Dolby-level tones (but not Dolby A tone). > > I have Cat 280 cards in an M-frame, though I guess I could put them > in 361 frames if that makes it easier. > > I have some ideas that I'm going to try, but I'd like to hear from > anyone who has done this. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1918 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 1:38 am Subject: Re: Dolby SR tape without SR Noise richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Jeff, The Dolby A tone is recorded at 0 VU while the Dolby SR noise is recorded at 15 dB BELOW the Dolby tone and there is a 15 dB booster amp in the SR card that drives the meter amp. This is the confusion. I only have 1 kHz tones at 0 VU and I want to know the procedure for calibrating the SR card. Cheers, Richard At 01:05 AM 2010-03-03, Jeff Chestek wrote: >If I'm reading the manual (and remembering) correctly, isn't Dolby tone >typically recorded at 0VU (your ref. flux level), so if there's a 1Khz >tone (or Dolby tone) at 0VU, should that not be set on the Dolby level >mark too? > >Jeff > >Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > > > > How would you calibrate a Dolby SR card to play a tape that does not > > have SR noise? It has presumably Dolby-level tones (but not Dolby A tone). > > > > I have Cat 280 cards in an M-frame, though I guess I could put them > > in 361 frames if that makes it easier. > > > > I have some ideas that I'm going to try, but I'd like to hear from > > anyone who has done this. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Richard > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1919 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 1:49 am Subject: Re: Dolby SR tape without SR Noise engjch13 Offline Send Email I think you'll need to use the 361 frames, I'm not familiar with the M frame. I'm thinking of 2 ways to do it. You could take your machine out of cal, and (using a good external meter) set your 0VU tones for 15dB down from your standard level (are you running 0VU=+4dBu?), then hit the Dolby tone/noise button and set for the Dolby mark, but I think that if you don't hit the Dolby tone/noise button that the meter will read correctly, and you just set level for the mark. Hitting the Dolby noise button switches on the 15 dB boost, puts a high-pass filter in the meter circuit, and activates the compare function, but the meter should read normally without it. Of course, YMMV... Armchair quarterbacking is easy! Jeff Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hi, Jeff, > > The Dolby A tone is recorded at 0 VU while the Dolby SR noise is > recorded at 15 dB BELOW the Dolby tone and there is a 15 dB booster > amp in the SR card that drives the meter amp. > > This is the confusion. I only have 1 kHz tones at 0 VU and I want to > know the procedure for calibrating the SR card. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 01:05 AM 2010-03-03, Jeff Chestek wrote: > >If I'm reading the manual (and remembering) correctly, isn't Dolby tone > >typically recorded at 0VU (your ref. flux level), so if there's a 1Khz > >tone (or Dolby tone) at 0VU, should that not be set on the Dolby level > >mark too? > > > >Jeff > > > >Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > > > > > > > How would you calibrate a Dolby SR card to play a tape that does not > > > have SR noise? It has presumably Dolby-level tones (but not Dolby A > tone). > > > > > > I have Cat 280 cards in an M-frame, though I guess I could put them > > > in 361 frames if that makes it easier. > > > > > > I have some ideas that I'm going to try, but I'd like to hear from > > > anyone who has done this. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > > > > > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > > Detailed contact information: > > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > > > > > > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1920 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Wed Mar 3, 2010 9:30 am Subject: Re: Dolby SR tape without SR Noise engjch13 Offline Send Email Jeff Chestek wrote: > I think you'll need to use the 361 frames, I'm not familiar with the M > frame. > > I'm thinking of 2 ways to do it. > > You could take your machine out of cal, and (using a good external > meter) set your 0VU tones for 15dB down from your standard level (are > you running 0VU=+4dBu?), then hit the Dolby tone/noise button and set > for the Dolby mark, Correction! If you leave your machine IN cal, and set your 0 tone to 0, THEN..... > ..........if you don't hit the Dolby > tone/noise button that the meter will read correctly, and you just set > level for the mark. Hitting the Dolby noise button switches on the 15 > dB boost, puts a high-pass filter in the meter circuit, and activates > the compare function, but the meter should read normally without it. > > Of course, YMMV... Armchair quarterbacking is easy! > > Jeff > > Richard L. Hess wrote: >> >> >> Hi, Jeff, >> >> The Dolby A tone is recorded at 0 VU while the Dolby SR noise is >> recorded at 15 dB BELOW the Dolby tone and there is a 15 dB booster >> amp in the SR card that drives the meter amp. >> >> This is the confusion. I only have 1 kHz tones at 0 VU and I want to >> know the procedure for calibrating the SR card. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Richard >> >> At 01:05 AM 2010-03-03, Jeff Chestek wrote: >> >If I'm reading the manual (and remembering) correctly, isn't Dolby tone >> >typically recorded at 0VU (your ref. flux level), so if there's a 1Khz >> >tone (or Dolby tone) at 0VU, should that not be set on the Dolby level >> >mark too? >> > >> >Jeff >> > >> >Richard L. Hess wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > How would you calibrate a Dolby SR card to play a tape that does not >> > > have SR noise? It has presumably Dolby-level tones (but not Dolby A >> tone). >> > > >> > > I have Cat 280 cards in an M-frame, though I guess I could put them >> > > in 361 frames if that makes it easier. >> > > >> > > I have some ideas that I'm going to try, but I'd like to hear from >> > > anyone who has done this. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > >> > > Richard >> > > >> > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >> >> > > >> > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >> > > Detailed contact information: >> > > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >> >> > > > > >> > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------ >> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >> >> Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >> Detailed contact information: >> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >> >> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1921 From: "DonP" Date: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:36 am Subject: where can i get manual(s) bidkid1999 Offline Send Email I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1922 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:52 pm Subject: Re: where can i get manual(s) richardlhess Offline Send Email At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don Hi, Don, You mean a 5003V, right? If so, try here: http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1923 From: "DonP" Date: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:28 pm Subject: Re: where can i get manual(s) bidkid1999 Offline Send Email Richard yes that's what i thought i told my fingers to type!! thanks Don --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1924 From: "misterandmissusweeks" Date: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:45 pm Subject: SONY APR 5000 for sale misterandmis... Offline Send Email Hello, I joined this group a while back while looking for spare parts. I'm getting out of recording, have a 5000, and am planning on selling it. Email yrsecretsister@... if you are interested. I live in eastern Pennsylvania. Best, Greg Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1925 From: Everett Moran Date: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:30 pm Subject: Crossposted - Looking for Engineer or Tech near Bali moranpro Offline Send Email Hi: I am looking for a qualified someone who might be able to check out a Quad Eight console located in Bali for me - preferably someone already in the general region. Any suggestions are appreciated. Relevant content? The Quad Eight will send signal to linked Studer A800/3M M79 (Studer & 3M Listservs), which will be mixed down to either an ATR-102 or MCI JH110 (Ampex & Sony Listservs), then mastered to Sonic Solutions (Sonic Listserv). Phew! Got y'all in there.... Thanks for any ideas.... Everett Team Member: Mt. Fuji Rocks 2010, raising funds to support global cancer care and expand the global bone marrow testing campaign. For more information, visit http://www.lovehopestrength.org/site/fujirocks/ To donate with 100% going to support the above, visit my site at http://www.lovehopestrength.org/site/everett-moran/ Everett Moran (206) 414-5801 ofc (720) 231-2423 cell (801) 218-5742 eFax [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1926 From: Pat Appleson Date: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:46 pm Subject: Re: Crossposted - Looking for Engineer or Tech near Bali appleson1 Offline Send Email Hi Everett, I'd be interested in the job. I assume that you want it repaired and not just checked out. I've done this type of work before, FM Radio transmitters and studio equipment and the major problem is importing test equipment and then getting parts in a timely manner to repair the studio or device. You do have the complete service manual for the console? If you can't find anyone closer, please let me know. I've got a new current passport and can leave tomorrow. Best Regards Pat >ps.... I see you mention MCI. I've had factory training on MCI >equipment from my friend Jeep Harned, the creator, when the firm was >operating in Fort Lauderdale. Patrick G. Appleson, Pres. Pat Appleson Studios, Inc. 2359 Highway 70, SE Suite 102 Hickory, NC 28602 828 465-5500 or 828-461-3003 www.appleson.com email: appleson@... Offices: Hickory/Charlotte, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1927 From: Everett Moran Date: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:22 pm Subject: Crossposted - Engineer or Tech near Bali found moranpro Offline Send Email Carlos, Buster, thank you very much for the references. I have found someone who is intimately familiar with the Pacifica and whose work I know to go look at it. Thanks again At 12:49 PM 4/29/2010, you wrote: > > >Hi Everett: > >Try contacting Lion Studios in Singapore, they >are the leading analog studio in that city, and >I'm sure that they'll be able to >refer you to a competent technician that would >be able to help you out in Bali. Here's the link to their web site: > >http://www.angelfire.com/sd/Lion/ > >Best of luck to you! > >Carlos Castro > > Everett Moran (206) 414-5801 ofc (720) 231-2423 cell (801) 218-5742 eFax Team Member: Mt. Fuji Rocks 2010 Raising funds to support global cancer care and expand the global bone marrow testing campaign. For more information, visit http://www.lovehopestrength.org/site/fujirocks/ To donate with 100% going to support the above, visit http://www.lovehopestrength.org/site/everett-moran/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1928 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Tue May 4, 2010 2:12 am Subject: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-roller, where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for different tape materials. The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and output as it should be... I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success until now and wanted to ask You opinion. Thanks and best regards. Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don Hi, Don, You mean a 5003V, right? If so, try here: http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1929 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue May 4, 2010 12:28 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... richardlhess Offline Send Email Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-roller, >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > http://www.richardhess.net/apr/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1930 From: newmedia@... Date: Tue May 4, 2010 9:07 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... radsimple Offline Send Email Richard: You made the right choice. The MTR-10/12 series were often sold into the radio-station and other price sensitive markets. They are built like trucks and often show up as well-worn "beaters." You can find as many of them as you want today for $300 each or maybe just come pick them up. However, the MTR-20 and MTR-15 are a later generation of microprocessor-controlled machines. They are the last gasp of reel-to-reel at Otari and were meant to compete with the final Studer A820, Ampex ATR series, Nagra TA, etc, so they are arguably the best that were ever designed for a shrinking R2R market that included studio mastering. This class of machines tend to sell for $3000+. Apparently only 200 (or-so) of the MTR-20 (14" reels, 4-channel, 1/2" or 1/4") were ever made, so few people have ever seen one. I have one with another set of spare parts. I think the MTR-15 could still be bought until a few years ago but were presumably built from an earlier production run. Given what you do, you needed many top-class machines and didn't want to invest in Ampexes or Studers. So, the MCI-cum-Sony machines are perfect for your purposes. Best-of-class from Sony -- who didn't care about profitability from these products. Lots of machines in the US. Not in great demand. Reasonable prices. Good deal! Mark Stahlman New York City In a message dated 5/4/2010 12:37:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arclists@... writes: Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-perfectl >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > _http://www.richardhhttp://www.r_ (http://www.richardhess.net/apr/) > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ (mailto:richard@...) Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1931 From: "Bob" Date: Tue May 4, 2010 1:21 pm Subject: RE: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... saxplayerbob Offline Send Email May 4, 2010 (1:20pm EST) Hello all, I have the Otari MTR-15 manual, however, it is many pages long and I have no way of knowing how to get that many pages to anyone. I ordered my manual from Otari back several years ago with a pretty steep cost I might add. This is not a manual one can email or fax. Zeroxing would see the logical way to go, but it would take a lot of time to copy that many pages. Bob _____ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:29 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-roller, >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > http://www.richardh ess.net/apr/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1932 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue May 4, 2010 1:47 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... richardlhess Offline Send Email At 01:07 PM 2010-05-04, newmedia@... wrote: >Given what you do, you needed many top-class machines and didn't want to >invest in Ampexes or Studers. So, the MCI-cum-Sony machines are perfect for >your purposes. Best-of-class from Sony -- who didn't care about >profitability from these products. Lots of machines in the >US. Not in great >demand. Reasonable prices. Good deal! Very true, but I have invested in Studers now--I have four A80RCs and haven't used the A810s much since then. It's either the Sony's for "stupid tape recorder tricks" or the A80s. Others have made the A80s perform more tricks than I have, but that is because I had already tricked out the APRs. The only thing I want to make an A80 do is run 30 in/s. Oh, and the APR-16 is no slouch, either, for wider tapes. I certainly wouldn't turn down an MTR-20 at a reasonable price--especially if it came with spares. I like the 4-channel capability (which my FrankenSony concept has made practical for playback at least on the APR-5000. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1933 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Tue May 4, 2010 2:18 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... kichoi... Offline Send Email Hi Bob: I am not sure about the copy right issues but I have had very thick manuals with odd size schematics printed at the FedEx/Kinko store for a reasonable price. It was about 100+ pages with 20 D size drawings bound for ~$25 as I recall. If Arif is willing cover your costs, FedEx/Kinko might be an option. It sure beats having to scan all the pages... Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote: > > May 4, 2010 (1:20pm EST) > > > > Hello all, > > > > I have the Otari MTR-15 manual, however, it is many pages long and I have no > way of knowing how to get that many pages to anyone. I ordered my manual > from Otari back several years ago with a pretty steep cost I might add. This > is not a manual one can email or fax. Zeroxing would see the logical way to > go, but it would take a lot of time to copy that many pages. > > > > Bob > > > > _____ > > From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Richard L. Hess > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:29 PM > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... > > > > > > Hello, Arif, > > I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 > manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and > then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at > Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so > disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other > machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: > >Dear Richard, > > > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now > >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-roller, > >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a > >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > > > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time > >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along > >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already > >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with > >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician > >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for > >different tape materials. > > > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, > >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be > >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for > >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that > >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and > >output as it should be... > > > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a > >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of > >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where > >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success > >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > > > >Thanks and best regards. > > > >Arif IYICIL > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard L. Hess > > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > > > Hi, Don, > > > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > > > If so, try here: > > > > http://www.richardh ess.net/apr/ > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess > .com > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh > ess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess > .com > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh > ess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1934 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Tue May 4, 2010 2:22 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... kichoi... Offline Send Email Hi Mark: One of the Tape Project forum members acquired a pristine MRT-15 in CT and had its headblock shipped to JRF for relap and 4 track head added. Including professional shipping, he invested less than $3K total and find it a very good machine (compared to his Studer A807 and smaller Otaris and Techincs RS decks). Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, newmedia@... wrote: > > Richard: > > You made the right choice. The MTR-10/12 series were often sold into the > radio-station and other price sensitive markets. They are built like > trucks and often show up as well-worn "beaters." You can find as many of them > as you want today for $300 each or maybe just come pick them up. > > However, the MTR-20 and MTR-15 are a later generation of > microprocessor-controlled machines. They are the last gasp of reel-to-reel at Otari and > were meant to compete with the final Studer A820, Ampex ATR series, Nagra TA, > etc, so they are arguably the best that were ever designed for a shrinking > R2R market that included studio mastering. This class of machines tend to > sell for $3000+. > > Apparently only 200 (or-so) of the MTR-20 (14" reels, 4-channel, 1/2" or > 1/4") were ever made, so few people have ever seen one. I have one with > another set of spare parts. I think the MTR-15 could still be bought until a > few years ago but were presumably built from an earlier production run. > > Given what you do, you needed many top-class machines and didn't want to > invest in Ampexes or Studers. So, the MCI-cum-Sony machines are perfect for > your purposes. Best-of-class from Sony -- who didn't care about > profitability from these products. Lots of machines in the US. Not in great > demand. Reasonable prices. Good deal! > > Mark Stahlman > New York City > > > In a message dated 5/4/2010 12:37:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > arclists@... writes: > > > > > Hello, Arif, > > I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 > manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and > then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at > Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so > disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other > machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: > >Dear Richard, > > > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now > >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-perfectl > >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a > >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > > > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time > >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along > >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already > >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with > >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician > >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for > >different tape materials. > > > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, > >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be > >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for > >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that > >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and > >output as it should be... > > > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a > >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of > >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where > >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success > >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > > > >Thanks and best regards. > > > >Arif IYICIL > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard L. Hess > > To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) > > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > > > Hi, Don, > > > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > > > If so, try here: > > > > _http://www.richardhhttp://www.r_ (http://www.richardhess.net/apr/) > > > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ > (mailto:richard@...) > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > > Detailed contact information: > _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: _richard@richardhessrich_ > (mailto:richard@...) > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > _http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1935 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Tue May 4, 2010 2:27 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... kichoi... Offline Send Email Hi Richard: Although this is a Sony forum... If you get the urge to jump into converting one of your A80RCs into 30ips machine, please let me know. One of my A80RCs were originally 15/30ips machine but the studio had turned it into a 7.5/15 ips machine. I ended up reconverting it to its original 15/30 ips setup. Fortunately, the studio didn't swap the 30ips motor and the work went mostly into restoring the capstan control, spooling motor control, and other cards to set the tape counter to show correct time, etc. It turned out good. Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "Richard L. Hess" wrote: > > At 01:07 PM 2010-05-04, newmedia@... wrote: > > >Given what you do, you needed many top-class machines and didn't want to > >invest in Ampexes or Studers. So, the MCI-cum-Sony machines are perfect for > >your purposes. Best-of-class from Sony -- who didn't care about > >profitability from these products. Lots of machines in the > >US. Not in great > >demand. Reasonable prices. Good deal! > > Very true, but I have invested in Studers now--I have four A80RCs and > haven't used the A810s much since then. It's either the Sony's for > "stupid tape recorder tricks" or the A80s. > > Others have made the A80s perform more tricks than I have, but that > is because I had already tricked out the APRs. The only thing I want > to make an A80 do is run 30 in/s. Oh, and the APR-16 is no slouch, > either, for wider tapes. > > I certainly wouldn't turn down an MTR-20 at a reasonable > price--especially if it came with spares. I like the 4-channel > capability (which my FrankenSony concept has made practical for > playback at least on the APR-5000. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1936 From: Finney Tsai Date: Tue May 4, 2010 4:46 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Talk about MTR-15, I do have two MTR-15, one 1/2", one 1/4". I also have an APR 5003 with several headblocks, including the wide AMC heads. Sold the A820 yet still keep one A810 with butterfly heads (heavily modded by me. For repro, record circuit, etc, A820 and A810 are pretty much the same machine). Technology-wise, MTR-15 is the most advanced of all - auto alignment, Dolby HX, phase compensation, etc. It's actually meant to compete against A827 (though 827 does not have 2 tracks) on technologies rather than A820. The transport part is definitely the best. Another big upgrade from MTR-10/12 is the new wide profile heads which are still in production. They perform much the same as the wide AMC heads. Compared to Studer's butterfly, they are not as warm yet have better highs. The main problem with A820 and MTR-15 is that both have tons of OPs inside, also tons of coupling caps. MTR-15 uses green Nichicon Muse BP caps when A820 has sucky dry tantalums. If you want either to sound the best, the re-capping and OP exchange will be a daunting job. The bottom line is, A820, ARP, and MTR-15 are all top machines. They just have different sound signature. APR is fairly neutural, MTR has this modern sound when A820 can bring more warmth to old recordings (didn't they use A820 for the Beatles remastering project?) MTR-20 is a transition machine between MTR-12 Mk.II and MTR-15. It's a shrunk down MTR-12 fitted with an auto alignment block. I have MTR-15's service manual as well. It's not only thick, those many folded schematic pages are a headache either to scan or to xerox. -finney > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 > Manuals... > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:12:54 +0300 > From: Arif IYICIL_T-M > Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > To: > > > > > > Dear Richard, > > Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which > is now > perfectly running, but has to be refined on the > band-sensor-roller, > where the diameter was not very correct calculated and > shows a > difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > > The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before > long time from > local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it > along with a > B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have > already remade > several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with > password > protection on console, and we cannot find any technician > nowadays in the > radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for different > tape materials. > > The unit is running currently without any problems on > audio-section, but > the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be > changed. Also > the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for splitting > the signals... > ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that it will run > again an switch > the signals between heads and input and output as it should > be... > > I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and > posted a new > demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a > friend of Yours at > that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where > I could get a > copy... ? I did search Google, but without success until > now and wanted > to ask You opinion. > > Thanks and best regards. > > Arif IYICIL > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1937 From: "Bob" Date: Tue May 4, 2010 4:56 pm Subject: SONY APR-15 MANUAL saxplayerbob Offline Send Email May 4, 2010 (5pm) Good afternoon all, I have a copy of the manual for the Sony APR-15 purchased from Sony a while back. It is a very thing manual with many pages. I could not even guess how to get a copy of this manual out. Zeroxing would seem the most logical way and that would constitute lots of time an effort. Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1938 From: "kichoi@..." Date: Tue May 4, 2010 5:19 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... kichoi... Offline Send Email Hi Finney: It's interesting views on Studer vs Otari. I would like to learn more about your replacement OPAMP recommendations for the Studer Repro pre/Repro/Line AMP cards. I once counted about 26 NE5532 Opamps in A820 audio section. thanks, Ki --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, Finney Tsai wrote: > > > > Talk about MTR-15, I do have two MTR-15, one 1/2", one 1/4". > I also have an APR 5003 with several headblocks, including > the wide AMC heads. Sold the A820 yet still keep one A810 with > butterfly heads (heavily modded by me. For repro, > record circuit, etc, A820 and A810 are pretty much the same machine). > > Technology-wise, MTR-15 is the most advanced of all - auto alignment, > Dolby HX, phase compensation, etc. It's actually meant to > compete against A827 (though 827 does not have 2 tracks) on technologies > rather than A820. The transport part is definitely the best. > Another big upgrade from MTR-10/12 is the new wide profile heads > which are still in production. > They perform much the same as the wide AMC heads. Compared to > Studer's butterfly, they are not as warm yet have better highs. > The main problem with A820 and MTR-15 is that both have > tons of OPs inside, also tons of coupling caps. MTR-15 uses > green Nichicon Muse BP caps when A820 has sucky dry tantalums. > If you want either to sound the best, the re-capping and OP exchange > will be a daunting job. > > The bottom line is, A820, ARP, and MTR-15 are all top machines. > They just have different sound signature. APR is fairly neutural, > MTR has this modern sound when A820 can bring more warmth > to old recordings (didn't they use A820 for > the Beatles remastering project?) > > MTR-20 is a transition machine between MTR-12 Mk.II and MTR-15. > It's a shrunk down MTR-12 fitted with an auto alignment block. > > I have MTR-15's service manual as well. It's not only thick, > those many folded schematic pages are a headache either to scan or > to xerox. > > > -finney > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 > > Manuals... > > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:12:54 +0300 > > From: Arif IYICIL_T-M > > Reply-To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Richard, > > > > Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which > > is now > > perfectly running, but has to be refined on the > > band-sensor-roller, > > where the diameter was not very correct calculated and > > shows a > > difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > > > > The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before > > long time from > > local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it > > along with a > > B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have > > already remade > > several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with > > password > > protection on console, and we cannot find any technician > > nowadays in the > > radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for different > > tape materials. > > > > The unit is running currently without any problems on > > audio-section, but > > the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be > > changed. Also > > the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for splitting > > the signals... > > ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that it will run > > again an switch > > the signals between heads and input and output as it should > > be... > > > > I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and > > posted a new > > demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a > > friend of Yours at > > that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where > > I could get a > > copy... ? I did search Google, but without success until > > now and wanted > > to ask You opinion. > > > > Thanks and best regards. > > > > Arif IYICIL > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1939 From: Finney Tsai Date: Tue May 4, 2010 6:12 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Hi Ki NE5532 is not bad for final outputs. It has a smooth and warm sound. You can leave them there as they are. The place you have to pay attention to is the head amp, repro card, etc, where real actions are happening. The head amp, i.e. the repro preamp is critical. I like to use JFET input OPs here. This pretty much limits the choices to OPA2134 and AD8620. AD8620 may sound a bit thin to some people when OPA2134 is fuller with less details. The first amp stage, the transistor, is also critical. The repro card, you can use whatever you like, OPA2134, AD8620, LM4562, etc. I got good result with LM4562 on the phase compensation stage yet again, some feel LM4562 does not have a solid bottom. In any case, power supply is the key hence most of my effort was related to it. Other than one nice sounding ERO bipolar cap, Studer uses dry tantalums all over the places. They will have to be replaced with something better. That one ERO often develops leakage along the time. It's hard to find the same part these days. Another bummer. Record, line amp, etc, pretty much follow the same rule. One thing really bugs me is those parts are so damned hard to remove! The PCB traces are so thin and fragile, and God knows what kind of solder Studer was using! You need to have a top pro quality desoldering device to safely remove the parts. I am not kidding. Desoldering is the hardest part of the whole mod project. -finney > On 05/04/2010 02:19 PM, kichoi@... > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Finney: > > > > It's interesting views on Studer vs Otari. I would > like to learn more > > about your replacement OPAMP recommendations for the > Studer Repro > > pre/Repro/Line AMP cards. I once counted about 26 > NE5532 Opamps in A820 > > audio section. > > > > thanks, > > Ki > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1940 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Wed May 5, 2010 4:10 am Subject: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... masteringman... Offline Send Email Finney Tsai: > A820 has sucky dry tantalums. Completely wrong. They are in fact dry electrolytics with a guaranteed life of 20000 hours at 125 degree Celsius or 80000 hours at 85 degree Celsius. Their temperature range is -80 to 175 degree Celsius. They are arguably the best electrolytic capacitor available and it does not have the failure mode of wet electrolytics of drying out nor does it have the failure mode of Tantalums of shorting out when subject to high slew rate transients such as mains interference. https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/06701551.pdf I would never ever change this type of dry electrolytic for anything else as they are in fact the best lytic capacitor that I have ever used so far. The price as befits a premium component is quite high too about 8 times that of generic wet lytics and 4 times that of tantalums. Studer never put in cheap components most of the time for sure. Sounds good too. BTW, the Ampex ATR100 series tape machines uses "Sucky dry tantalums" everywhere but is still considered to be one of the best sounding mastering machines ever made. This is due to the fact that the tantalums are used in such a way that they do not introduce any measurable distortion in the signal path. I would certainly not degrade my three ATR102/104s by putting electrolytics in there that will slowly dry out over time nor will I remove the tantalums in my CAT22 Dolby A cards for no gain at all. YMMV. -- Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1941 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed May 5, 2010 6:44 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear All, Thanks to Bob and Mark for the information, that they have the manual... I would for sure pay the cost of an eventually Xeroxing, but have less experience with the price of this work in New-York or at another location in USA, which the people at a printing facility will ask. (PayPal is probably the most suitable way for transfer the money...? ) It is quite understandable, that the time consuming scanning of such a document with different sized pages into a long PDF file is beyond a favor, which someone would ask in case of need. If I would be in the neighborhood, I would ask for the manual for preparing the PDF file to make it also available for the community, but as I am in another country, it is also a problem for shipping such heavy documentation (via courier like DHL or TNT and the customs...? ), where I will find also a possible destination in USA, in case we can proceed further in this matter. At this point, the open issue remains... how to photocopy and fix the price for the copied document and cost of shipping within USA and I am confident, that there will be solution soon from all involved gentlemen. Awaiting for Your inputs, I will remain with best regards Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Cc: 'Bob' ; bob@... Sent: Tuesday, 04 May, 2010 20:21 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... May 4, 2010 (1:20pm EST) Hello all, I have the Otari MTR-15 manual, however, it is many pages long and I have no way of knowing how to get that many pages to anyone. I ordered my manual from Otari back several years ago with a pretty steep cost I might add. This is not a manual one can email or fax. Zeroxing would see the logical way to go, but it would take a lot of time to copy that many pages. Bob _____ From: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:29 PM To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-roller, >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > http://www.richardh ess.net/apr/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardh ess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1942 From: newmedia@... Date: Wed May 5, 2010 3:30 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... radsimple Offline Send Email Arif: I agree that this should be professionally scanned (not just Xeroxed) and paid for by the multiple people who need copies. If this can be arranged, I would also offer an MTR-20 manual (w/o schematics) for same process. Who can do this? Maybe one of the people who already sell scanned copies of technical manuals? Btw, I have a CD with 30+ Otari manuals but not this one -- which came in very handy for my PicMix systems. Mark In a message dated 5/5/2010 6:45:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmist@... writes: Dear All, Thanks to Bob and Mark for the information, that they have the manual... I would for sure pay the cost of an eventually Xeroxing, but have less experience with the price of this work in New-York or at another location in USA, which the people at a printing facility will ask. (PayPal is probably the most suitable way for transfer the money...? ) It is quite understandable, that the time consuming scanning of such a document with different sized pages into a long PDF file is beyond a favor, which someone would ask in case of need. If I would be in the neighborhood, I would ask for the manual for preparing the PDF file to make it also available for the community, but as I am in another country, it is also a problem for shipping such heavy documentation (via courier like DHL or TNT and the customs...? ), where I will find also a possible destination in USA, in case we can proceed further in this matter. At this point, the open issue remains... how to photocopy and fix the price for the copied document and cost of shipping within USA and I am confident, that there will be solution soon from all involved gentlemen. Awaiting for Your inputs, I will remain with best regards Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) Cc: 'Bob' ; _bob@business800voicbob@busin_ (mailto:bob@...) Sent: Tuesday, 04 May, 2010 20:21 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... May 4, 2010 (1:20pm EST) Hello all, I have the Otari MTR-15 manual, however, it is many pages long and I have no way of knowing how to get that many pages to anyone. I ordered my manual from Otari back several years ago with a pretty steep cost I might add. This is not a manual one can email or fax. Zeroxing would see the logical way to go, but it would take a lot of time to copy that many pages. Bob _____ From: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:29 PM To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-perfectl >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.r_ (http://www.richardhess.net/apr/) > ess.net/apr/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > ess.com/tape/ ess.co > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > ess.com/tape/ ess.co Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1943 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed May 5, 2010 8:50 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Richard, Running nowadays the Sony APR5003 at top shape after some cleaning and restoration and with additional a nearly new head-block acquired from eBay, it is a real pleasure to look to the measurement values and hear the result. I am really happy to have one more alternative for mix down and the current alignment for 15ips NAB with AGFA PER 528 is really optimal... The first impressions of new Otari's MTR15, after my MX55... This is also A VERY HEAVY (!) unit, around 50kg, and in these days I think twice, before moving such kind of equipment around... The mechanics is built like a solid rock (!) and everything is mounted around a very thick alu-plate and the covers are from 2mm thick iron-sheet. Although the controller for transport seems very sturdy, I did not yet look very detailed to the rec/pb electronics, but I have seen reports, that Otari has a little exaggerated for this unit. There are still some work to be done and when the cleaning and restoring some mechanical parts is done and I am confident, that it will be a comparable unit to APR. MPR is another level and it is for sure not in the same class like MX. I have the stereo unit with 0.75mm channel separation, without center track for synch and the non butterfly permalloy heads, which have very little usage. I will be happy to report the results later, where I can compare among Studer B67, Tascam ATR60, Sony APR and MTR, but I think, that I will do this in comparison to my old and beloved TFK-M15A, which is my personal standard for recording. (Sorry that I have not an A80 for comparison and I have to add, that I would also like to have an Ampex ATR102... ) By the way... changing A80 to 30ips, You have to pay attention to some details of the tachogenerator, where some components should be changed to optimize the PLL capture. I have made this change in the past and I do remember, that I have had to change some components, so that PLL is optimized. I will try to find it out, if I will have chance. The tachgenerator for A80 has only one-or-two "pick-up-heads" and therefore the signal is weaker than A77, B77 or B67, which have surrounded generator teeth and stronger tacho-pulses. WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard L. Hess To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 04 May, 2010 20:47 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... At 01:07 PM 2010-05-04, newmedia@... wrote: >Given what you do, you needed many top-class machines and didn't want to >invest in Ampexes or Studers. So, the MCI-cum-Sony machines are perfect for >your purposes. Best-of-class from Sony -- who didn't care about >profitability from these products. Lots of machines in the >US. Not in great >demand. Reasonable prices. Good deal! Very true, but I have invested in Studers now--I have four A80RCs and haven't used the A810s much since then. It's either the Sony's for "stupid tape recorder tricks" or the A80s. Others have made the A80s perform more tricks than I have, but that is because I had already tricked out the APRs. The only thing I want to make an A80 do is run 30 in/s. Oh, and the APR-16 is no slouch, either, for wider tapes. I certainly wouldn't turn down an MTR-20 at a reasonable price--especially if it came with spares. I like the 4-channel capability (which my FrankenSony concept has made practical for playback at least on the APR-5000. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1944 From: Jeff Brown Date: Wed May 5, 2010 9:21 am Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... jeffbro27707 Offline Send Email When I needed a few of these recently I could not find them. Where are these capacitors available from US vendors? Jeff At 04:10 AM 5/5/2010, you wrote: >Finney Tsai: > > > A820 has sucky dry tantalums. > >Completely wrong. > >They are in fact dry electrolytics with a guaranteed life of 20000 hours at >125 degree Celsius or 80000 hours at 85 degree Celsius. > >Their temperature range is -80 to 175 degree Celsius. > >They are arguably the best electrolytic capacitor available and it does not >have the failure mode of wet electrolytics of drying out nor does it have >the failure mode of Tantalums of shorting out when subject to high slew rate >transients such as mains interference. > >https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/06701551.pdf > >I would never ever change this type of dry electrolytic for anything else as >they are in fact the best lytic capacitor that I have ever used so far. > >The price as befits a premium component is quite high too about 8 times that >of generic wet lytics and 4 times that of tantalums. > >Studer never put in cheap components most of the time for sure. > >Sounds good too. > >BTW, the Ampex ATR100 series tape machines uses "Sucky dry tantalums" >everywhere but is still considered to be one of the best sounding mastering >machines ever made. > >This is due to the fact that the tantalums are used in such a way that they >do not introduce any measurable distortion in the signal path. > >I would certainly not degrade my three ATR102/104s by putting electrolytics >in there that will slowly dry out over time nor will I remove the tantalums >in my CAT22 Dolby A cards for no gain at all. > >YMMV. > > >-- > >Best regards, > >Goran Finnberg >The Mastering Room AB >Goteborg >Sweden > >E-mail: mastering@... > >Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to >make them all yourself. - John Luther > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1945 From: Goran Finnberg Date: Wed May 5, 2010 10:01 am Subject: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... masteringman... Offline Send Email Jeff Brown: > When I needed a few of these recently I could not find them. Where > are these capacitors available from US vendors? http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=H3WV4PSQAAB0ICQLCIPZN 4Q?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=BC+128&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=fal se&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=87326 or use: http://tinyurl.com/2u6cjhq http://www.farnell.com/ Seems to have a USA daughter company. BTW, these capacitors were formerly made by Philips and then they were sold by BC components and lately sold by Vishay. http://www.vishay.com/capacitors/list/product-28354/ -- Best regards, Goran Finnberg The Mastering Room AB Goteborg Sweden E-mail: mastering@... Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to make them all yourself. - John Luther Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1946 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed May 5, 2010 10:13 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Mark, I have seen, that You are located in New-York... I just checked via Google and will send the following link to You. Perhaps You can call one of them to have an idea, what is possible. http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=tr&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=%22new-york%22+best+copy\ &fb=1&gl=tr&hq=best+copy&hnear=%22new-york%22&cid=13016810950485728302 Thanks and WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: newmedia@... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 05 May, 2010 14:30 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Arif: I agree that this should be professionally scanned (not just Xeroxed) and paid for by the multiple people who need copies. If this can be arranged, I would also offer an MTR-20 manual (w/o schematics) for same process. Who can do this? Maybe one of the people who already sell scanned copies of technical manuals? Btw, I have a CD with 30+ Otari manuals but not this one -- which came in very handy for my PicMix systems. Mark In a message dated 5/5/2010 6:45:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmist@... writes: Dear All, Thanks to Bob and Mark for the information, that they have the manual... I would for sure pay the cost of an eventually Xeroxing, but have less experience with the price of this work in New-York or at another location in USA, which the people at a printing facility will ask. (PayPal is probably the most suitable way for transfer the money...? ) It is quite understandable, that the time consuming scanning of such a document with different sized pages into a long PDF file is beyond a favor, which someone would ask in case of need. If I would be in the neighborhood, I would ask for the manual for preparing the PDF file to make it also available for the community, but as I am in another country, it is also a problem for shipping such heavy documentation (via courier like DHL or TNT and the customs...? ), where I will find also a possible destination in USA, in case we can proceed further in this matter. At this point, the open issue remains... how to photocopy and fix the price for the copied document and cost of shipping within USA and I am confident, that there will be solution soon from all involved gentlemen. Awaiting for Your inputs, I will remain with best regards Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) Cc: 'Bob' ; _bob@business800voicbob@busin_ (mailto:bob@...) Sent: Tuesday, 04 May, 2010 20:21 Subject: RE: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... May 4, 2010 (1:20pm EST) Hello all, I have the Otari MTR-15 manual, however, it is many pages long and I have no way of knowing how to get that many pages to anyone. I ordered my manual from Otari back several years ago with a pretty steep cost I might add. This is not a manual one can email or fax. Zeroxing would see the logical way to go, but it would take a lot of time to copy that many pages. Bob _____ From: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:29 PM To: _sony_apr@yahoogroupsony__ (mailto:sony_apr@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Hello, Arif, I see that Mark has replied to you. I'm sorry I do not have an MTR-15 manual. I got involved with the Sony APR-5000s and Studer A810s and then A80s. I sold off four MTR-10s and never looked back at Otari--perhaps I'm missing something with the MTR-15, but I was so disappointed overall with the MTR-10s and so pleased with the other machines, I just left Otari alone as I was building my business. Cheers, Richard At 02:12 AM 2010-05-04, you wrote: >Dear Richard, > >Here I am again, after the recent contact with APR, which is now >perfectly running, but has to be refined on the band-sensor-perfectl >where the diameter was not very correct calculated and shows a >difference of 10sec on half-hour tape running... > >The guys, who have collected this heavy Otari unit before long time >from local radio did agree with my proposal and I could get it along >with a B67, where I have no problems with Studer, as I have already >remade several of them, but the MTR-15 seems, to be locked with >password protection on console, and we cannot find any technician >nowadays in the radio-station, who has entered his cal-data for >different tape materials. > >The unit is running currently without any problems on audio-section, >but the mechanics has to be cleaned and the bearings has to be >changed. Also the VU-unit is missing a (probably y-cable for >splitting the signals... ?) cable, which I have to find out, so that >it will run again an switch the signals between heads and input and >output as it should be... > >I have seen Your message on Otari-group from 2008-March and posted a >new demand for service manual, where You did ask it for a friend of >Yours at that time. Do You have any further details nowadays, where >I could get a copy... ? I did search Google, but without success >until now and wanted to ask You opinion. > >Thanks and best regards. > >Arif IYICIL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard L. Hess > To: sony_apr@yahoogroup s.com > Sent: Monday, 15 March, 2010 19:52 > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] where can i get manual(s) > > > > At 11:36 AM 2010-03-15, you wrote: > >I hsve been a quiet list member until Saturday while at a local > >electronics swap meet,I spotted 2 pictures of an APR 3003V so > >now i have a VERY low use machine from a post house house but no > >manuals!! Help!!! thanks Don > > Hi, Don, > > You mean a 5003V, right? > > If so, try here: > > _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.r_ (http://www.richardhess.net/apr/) > ess.net/apr/ > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > ess.com/tape/ ess.co > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@richardhess .com Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: _http://www.richardh_ (http://www.richardh/) <_http://www.richardhhttp://www.rihttp://www._ (http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm) > ess.com/tape/ ess.co Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1947 From: Jeff Brown Date: Wed May 5, 2010 12:59 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... jeffbro27707 Offline Send Email Sadly, these are only available from Newark (USA part of Farnell) via special order from Europe. Non-cancellable, non-returnable, and with a $20 special order fee for each order. Not what I would call ready availability. Does anyone have a better source. Jeff At 10:01 AM 5/5/2010, you wrote: >Jeff Brown: > > > When I needed a few of these recently I could not find them. Where > > are these capacitors available from US vendors? > > >http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=H3WV4PSQAAB0ICQLCIPZN >4Q?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=BC+128&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=fal >se&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=87326 > >or use: > >http://tinyurl.com/2u6cjhq > >http://www.farnell.com/ > >Seems to have a USA daughter company. > >BTW, these capacitors were formerly made by Philips and then they were sold >by BC components and lately sold by Vishay. > >http://www.vishay.com/capacitors/list/product-28354/ > > > > > >-- > >Best regards, > >Goran Finnberg >The Mastering Room AB >Goteborg >Sweden > >E-mail: mastering@... > >Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to >make them all yourself. - John Luther > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1948 From: "Hans J. Albertsson" Date: Wed May 5, 2010 4:59 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... hansalbertsson Offline Send Email "NE5532 has a smooth and warm sound." Statements like this simply show the reader that the writer probably doesn't understand the subject. Properly applied, an NE5532 or, for that matter, an OPA2134 has no discernible characteristic effect on the sound of the output signal, as long as noise is not a problem. And noise is unlikely to be a problem in most reasonably-high-level circuitry with these opamps. Ki: there are a lot of different opamps that could in theory be applied to these circuits, and give eminent results with no special characteristics. Two very safe bets are, indeed, NE5532 and OPA2134. Not because of any "sound" they may have, which they don't if properly applied, but because they are easy to use due to their good phase margins and very easy bias requirements. And the NE5532 is already so good that in most circuits nothing significant could be gained by redesigning with more modern opamps. And how can I say all of this with such certainty?? Because the opamp as a component depends on only a few very simple requirements to perform well beyond what the human ear requires. 2010-05-05 00:12, Finney Tsai skrev: > > Hi Ki > > NE5532 is not bad for final outputs. It has a smooth and warm sound. > You can leave them there as they are. > > The place you have to pay attention to is the head amp, repro card, etc, > where real actions are happening. The head amp, i.e. the repro preamp > is critical. I like to use JFET input OPs here. This pretty much limits > the choices to OPA2134 and AD8620. AD8620 may sound a bit thin > to some people when OPA2134 is fuller with less details. > The first amp stage, the transistor, is also critical. > > The repro card, you can use whatever you like, OPA2134, AD8620, > LM4562, etc. > I got good result with LM4562 on the phase compensation stage yet again, > some feel LM4562 does not have a solid bottom. > In any case, power supply is the key hence most of my effort was related > to it. > Other than one nice sounding ERO bipolar cap, Studer uses > dry tantalums all over the places. They will have to be replaced > with something better. That one ERO often develops leakage > along the time. It's hard to find the same part these days. > Another bummer. > > Record, line amp, etc, pretty much follow the same rule. > > One thing really bugs me is those parts are so damned hard > to remove! The PCB traces are so thin and fragile, and > God knows what kind of solder Studer was using! > You need to have a top pro quality desoldering device > to safely remove the parts. I am not kidding. > Desoldering is the hardest part of the whole mod project. > > -finney > > > On 05/04/2010 02:19 PM, kichoi@... > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Finney: > > > > > > It's interesting views on Studer vs Otari. I would > > like to learn more > > > about your replacement OPAMP recommendations for the > > Studer Repro > > > pre/Repro/Line AMP cards. I once counted about 26 > > NE5532 Opamps in A820 > > > audio section. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Ki > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1949 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 2:35 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Ok ok, got caught on the term I used. I was just trying to simplify things for other people to understand. Studer used to use dry tantalums for signal coupling on B77, PR99, A80, etc then switched to SAL Philips/BC solid aluminum when it became available. Definitely did not want to confuse people with those details. The bottom line is, SAL caps measure better yet sonically they are no good. I have done a lot of comparisons on Philips AHT118 and SAL123 caps. The SAL123 has no where close to AHT118. In the audio world, measured bettter usually does not mean much. One obvious example is vacuum tubes. Those new solid polymer caps definitely out-perform SAL/solid aluminum, but will you ever dare to replace solid aluminum with solid polymer? I dont think so, because solid polymer sounds terrible for coupling. The main problem here is that Studer chose to use solid aluminum for signal coupling when solid aluminun is really not meant for audio signal coupling. The only good thing about solid aluminun here is the reliability and long life. This was exactly the same reason Studer put tantalums on A80. Being there, done that. My A810 simply sounds much better after having those solid aluminum replaced when you keep living in the belief that your machine sounds best with solid aluminum. ;) Studer always uses the best, top quality parts? What makes you think so? Just look at those lousy IC sockets they used everywhere! Not even mention they could definitely replace tantalum or SAL with good MKT caps at certain spots. Regarding to ATR-100, Ampex had no access to solid aluminum at that time. Again, tantalum for reliability as film caps were too big too expensive and e-caps were not reliable back then. No measurable distortion? What kind of signal analyzer did you use? ;) Well, everybody knows ATR does not sound the best at stock form. This is why ATR service did a head amp for it. Sure, you can also keep believing your stock ATR sounds great. As for modding CAT22 Dolby A card, that's another story. We can start another thread for it.... -finney On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Jeff Brown wrote:  When I needed a few of these recently I could not find them. Where are these capacitors available from US vendors? Jeff At 04:10 AM 5/5/2010, you wrote: >Finney Tsai: > > > A820 has sucky dry tantalums. > >Completely wrong. > >They are in fact dry electrolytics with a guaranteed life of 20000 hours at >125 degree Celsius or 80000 hours at 85 degree Celsius. > >Their temperature range is -80 to 175 degree Celsius. > >They are arguably the best electrolytic capacitor available and it does not >have the failure mode of wet electrolytics of drying out nor does it have >the failure mode of Tantalums of shorting out when subject to high slew rate >transients such as mains interference. > >https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/06701551.pdf > >I would never ever change this type of dry electrolytic for anything else as >they are in fact the best lytic capacitor that I have ever used so far. > >The price as befits a premium component is quite high too about 8 times that >of generic wet lytics and 4 times that of tantalums. > >Studer never put in cheap components most of the time for sure. > >Sounds good too. > >BTW, the Ampex ATR100 series tape machines uses "Sucky dry tantalums" >everywhere but is still considered to be one of the best sounding mastering >machines ever made. > >This is due to the fact that the tantalums are used in such a way that they >do not introduce any measurable distortion in the signal path. > >I would certainly not degrade my three ATR102/104s by putting electrolytics >in there that will slowly dry out over time nor will I remove the tantalums >in my CAT22 Dolby A cards for no gain at all. > >YMMV. > > >-- > >Best regards, > >Goran Finnberg >The Mastering Room AB >Goteborg >Sweden > >E-mail: mastering@... > >Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to >make them all yourself. - John Luther > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1950 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Statements like this strikes me as silly and show little understanding on the whole audio gear business. Very simple, let's assume Studer had done everything right on using the NE5532. Since the NE5532 is mounted on IC socket on the A810/A820 boards, you can do OP swap experiments easily. There are more than 5 comapnies which make 5532. Now try every different brand of 5532 and see whether you can hear the difference before you start those theory talks. Again, strikes me very funny as I know quite a few people doing OP designs. There are still so many problems they will have to solve. If it is so simple, National Semi would never bother to bring out the LM4562 audio OP. Isnt 5532 good enough already? Haha -finney On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Hans J. Albertsson wrote: "NE5532 has a smooth and warm sound." Statements like this simply show the reader that the writer probably doesn't understand the subject. Properly applied, an NE5532 or, for that matter, an OPA2134 has no discernible characteristic effect on the sound of the output signal, as long as noise is not a problem. And noise is unlikely to be a problem in most reasonably-high-level circuitry with these opamps. Ki: there are a lot of different opamps that could in theory be applied to these circuits, and give eminent results with no special characteristics. Two very safe bets are, indeed, NE5532 and OPA2134. Not because of any "sound" they may have, which they don't if properly applied, but because they are easy to use due to their good phase margins and very easy bias requirements. And the NE5532 is already so good that in most circuits nothing significant could be gained by redesigning with more modern opamps. And how can I say all of this with such certainty?? Because the opamp as a component depends on only a few very simple requirements to perform well beyond what the human ear requires. Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1951 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed May 5, 2010 3:31 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... eddieaudio Offline Send Email This should be another thread, I suppose, but I am interested in CAT-22 service and mods, as in, what the common problems are as well as component upgrades. eddie ciletti > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1952 From: "Hans J. Albertsson" Date: Wed May 5, 2010 3:32 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... hansalbertsson Offline Send Email In the audio world, good results in well-set-up measurements usually means a lot: and tube amps is one of the best examples. Their sound can be predicted rather well from how they measure. 2nd harmonic is a nice sound for many, making some instruments sound more real than in the original. Not being an exact reproduction of the original need not mean that something sounds horrible, but if you want to be a responsible professional, accurate reproduction of the original or input or whatever the reference is in any particular case, coupled with precisely controlled processing are the main tools of the trade. That said, some capacitor types can introduce strange artefacts into a signal, and one would do well to assume nothing without verifying. And verification is best done by properly set up measurements, including controlled unbiased listening tests.. 2010-05-05 20:35, Finney Tsai skrev: > > > Ok ok, got caught on the term I used. I was just trying > to simplify things for other people to understand. > Studer used to use dry tantalums for signal coupling on > B77, PR99, A80, etc then switched to SAL Philips/BC > solid aluminum when it became available. > Definitely did not want to confuse people with those details. > > The bottom line is, SAL caps measure better yet > sonically they are no good. I have done a lot > of comparisons on Philips AHT118 and SAL123 caps. > The SAL123 has no where close to AHT118. > In the audio world, measured bettter usually does > not mean much. One obvious example is vacuum tubes. > Those new solid polymer caps definitely out-perform > SAL/solid aluminum, but will you ever dare to > replace solid aluminum with solid polymer? > I dont think so, because solid polymer sounds > terrible for coupling. > > The main problem here is that Studer chose > to use solid aluminum for signal coupling > when solid aluminun is really not meant > for audio signal coupling. The only good > thing about solid aluminun here is the reliability > and long life. This was exactly the same reason > Studer put tantalums on A80. > > Being there, done that. My A810 simply sounds > much better after having those solid aluminum replaced > when you keep living in the belief that your > machine sounds best with solid aluminum. ;) > > Studer always uses the best, top quality parts? > What makes you think so? Just look at those > lousy IC sockets they used everywhere! > Not even mention they could definitely > replace tantalum or SAL with good MKT caps > at certain spots. > > Regarding to ATR-100, Ampex had no access > to solid aluminum at that time. > Again, tantalum for reliability as film > caps were too big too expensive > and e-caps were not reliable back then. > No measurable distortion? What kind of > signal analyzer did you use? ;) > Well, everybody knows ATR does not sound the best > at stock form. This is why ATR service > did a head amp for it. Sure, you can also keep believing > your stock ATR sounds great. > > As for modding CAT22 Dolby A card, that's another story. > We can start another thread for it.... > > -finney > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Jeff Brown > wrote: > > > > When I needed a few of these recently I could not find them. Where > are these capacitors available from US vendors? > > Jeff > > At 04:10 AM 5/5/2010, you wrote: > >Finney Tsai: > > > > > A820 has sucky dry tantalums. > > > >Completely wrong. > > > >They are in fact dry electrolytics with a guaranteed life of 20000 > hours at > >125 degree Celsius or 80000 hours at 85 degree Celsius. > > > >Their temperature range is -80 to 175 degree Celsius. > > > >They are arguably the best electrolytic capacitor available and it > does not > >have the failure mode of wet electrolytics of drying out nor does it have > >the failure mode of Tantalums of shorting out when subject to high > slew rate > >transients such as mains interference. > > > >https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/06701551.pdf > > > > >I would never ever change this type of dry electrolytic for anything > else as > >they are in fact the best lytic capacitor that I have ever used so far. > > > >The price as befits a premium component is quite high too about 8 > times that > >of generic wet lytics and 4 times that of tantalums. > > > >Studer never put in cheap components most of the time for sure. > > > >Sounds good too. > > > >BTW, the Ampex ATR100 series tape machines uses "Sucky dry tantalums" > >everywhere but is still considered to be one of the best sounding > mastering > >machines ever made. > > > >This is due to the fact that the tantalums are used in such a way > that they > >do not introduce any measurable distortion in the signal path. > > > >I would certainly not degrade my three ATR102/104s by putting > electrolytics > >in there that will slowly dry out over time nor will I remove the > tantalums > >in my CAT22 Dolby A cards for no gain at all. > > > >YMMV. > > > > > >-- > > > >Best regards, > > > >Goran Finnberg > >The Mastering Room AB > >Goteborg > >Sweden > > > >E-mail: mastering@... > > > >Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to > >make them all yourself. - John Luther > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1953 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 6:46 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email You can always ordered Vishay/BC SAL caps directly from Farnell. No special order fee. The shipping charge is very reasonable, too. Usually you can receive the parts in about 3-4 days, very efficient. You may also want to try out the metal can, axial type SAL123 capacitor. It sounds a bit better than the resin packed type Studer was using. Digikey used to carry the line but now most old stocks have been sold out. Farnell also has it. Watch out for the price though. They are super expensive, about 5X higher than the resin type. The height on A820's card is limited hence be sure to measure it before ordering parts. -finney On 05/05/2010 09:59 AM, Jeff Brown wrote: > > > Sadly, these are only available from Newark (USA part of Farnell) via > special order from Europe. Non-cancellable, non-returnable, and with > a $20 special order fee for each order. Not what I would call ready > availability. > > Does anyone have a better source. > > Jeff > Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1954 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 6:48 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email The most popular mod on CAT-22 is the vocal mod, i.e. to disable the band-1 and band-2 compression. You can easily find the info on the web. I do have CAT-22's schematic, got it directly from Dolby Labs. I gave one copy to the UK guy who posted the vocal mod. Not sure whether the schematic is available on his website? Anyway, let me know if you want one copy as well. Modding CAT-22 is a very elaborative work. I'd suggest you focus on improving the power supply first, including the 361 frame. -finney On 05/05/2010 12:31 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > This should be another thread, I suppose, but I am interested in CAT-22 > service and mods, as in, what the common problems are as well as > component upgrades. > > eddie ciletti Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1955 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 6:53 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Hi Arif Just a quick question: Will you consider selling me the AEG M15A? :) Or have you located any M21 for sale in the states? Thanks. -finney On 05/05/2010 05:50 AM, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: > > > Dear Richard, > > Running nowadays the Sony APR5003 at top shape after some cleaning and > restoration and with additional a nearly new head-block acquired from > eBay, it is a real pleasure to look to the measurement values and hear > the result. I am really happy to have one more alternative for mix down > and the current alignment for 15ips NAB with AGFA PER 528 is really > optimal... Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1956 From: Finney Tsai Date: Wed May 5, 2010 7:04 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... finney15 Offline Send Email Yep, yep, 2nd order harmonics is the key. Still, you need good measurement number to start with. We design our own DAC for fun. We use our own AP to make sure there's no design error or whatsever first, whether the noise floor is down to -130db, etc. Reel decks are just another hobby to me hence I can afford tearing everything apart and doing the tweaks. Believe it or not. We are crazy about those ex-Soviet military grade paper-in-oil capacitors even when they leak like hell, measured awful. -finney On 05/05/2010 12:32 PM, Hans J. Albertsson wrote: > > > In the audio world, good results in well-set-up measurements usually > means a lot: and tube amps is one of the best examples. > Their sound can be predicted rather well from how they measure. 2nd > harmonic is a nice sound for many, making some instruments sound more > real than in the original. > Not being an exact reproduction of the original need not mean that > something sounds horrible, but if you want to be a responsible > professional, accurate reproduction of the original or input or whatever > the reference is in any particular case, coupled with precisely > controlled processing are the main tools of the trade. > > That said, some capacitor types can introduce strange artefacts into a > signal, and one would do well to assume nothing without verifying. And > verification is best done by properly set up measurements, including > controlled unbiased listening tests.. Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1957 From: eddie ciletti Date: Wed May 5, 2010 7:37 pm Subject: Re: Sucky dry tantalums was Otari MTR-15 Manuals... eddieaudio Offline Send Email I mostly want the cat-22 to work as intended. I have four, I think two are functional. I definitely used the cat-22 for vocals back in the day. > > > > The most popular mod on CAT-22 is the vocal mod, i.e. to disable the > band-1 and band-2 compression. You can easily find the info on the web. > > I do have CAT-22's schematic, got it directly from Dolby Labs. > I gave one copy to the UK guy who posted the vocal mod. > Not sure whether the schematic is available on his website? > > Anyway, let me know if you want one copy as well. > > Modding CAT-22 is a very elaborative work. I'd suggest you focus > on improving the power supply first, including the 361 frame. > > -finney > > On 05/05/2010 12:31 PM, eddie ciletti wrote: > > > > > > This should be another thread, I suppose, but I am interested in CAT-22 > > service and mods, as in, what the common problems are as well as > > component upgrades. > > > > eddie ciletti > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (7 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1958 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Thu May 6, 2010 4:39 am Subject: Re: Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Finney, I am highly sorry to disappoint You, as I have no possibilities to supply an M15A of M21 in USA or arrange one for Your from Germany anymore... Most of my contacts have left their facilities in the meantime and the nest way is probably German-eBay-pages, where the guys ask for 1500.-EU ore more in these days for a good unit... It was a great problem to import my old M10 with tube amplifiers at that time (which was a box of 150kg's...) in 1980 after my study and it was a great fight to convince the guys at the customs, that it is only a record and playback unit and nothing else, which was used for some research tasks for digital recording. Later for a used M15A, I have had to invent other stories at the customs, when it was among other measuring equipment of 4-5 palettes... (I am living in Turkey...) Personally I do not like M21, although it is a better unit than M15A, but there are "crazy behaviors" of people like us, and it is my personal reference unit. In case I will see one day somewhere in USA a similar unit, I will send to You a message... I cannot answer it correctly and I am not very sure (!) if I purely like the sound of this unit or the measurement results throughout the years did force me more to accept it as a reference, where an engineer has to believe mostly, what he sees and perhaps therefore I am personally convinced from the playback result of such a "correct behaving unit", (where I do use Tektronix and Bruel audio equipment for verifying and MRL tapes...) Having the same "problem" I do follow the current discussion with condensers and I can extend it to loudspeaker-cables, large diagram microphones with "warm" sound, tube limiters (costing 20kUSD...) or digital recording with different front ends, or CD's having tube front ends... etc... WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Finney Tsai To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 06 May, 2010 01:53 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Fw: Otari MTR-15 Manuals... Hi Arif Just a quick question: Will you consider selling me the AEG M15A? :) Or have you located any M21 for sale in the states? Thanks. -finney On 05/05/2010 05:50 AM, Arif IYICIL_T-M wrote: > > > Dear Richard, > > Running nowadays the Sony APR5003 at top shape after some cleaning and > restoration and with additional a nearly new head-block acquired from > eBay, it is a real pleasure to look to the measurement values and hear > the result. I am really happy to have one more alternative for mix down > and the current alignment for 15ips NAB with AGFA PER 528 is really > optimal... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (19 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1959 From: Ivan Basauri Date: Sun May 9, 2010 11:35 am Subject: WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! ivan.basauri Offline Send Email I'm located in Washington, DC. If the machine is located relatively close to DC, I'd be willing to go pick it up! Setting up a little studio and the deck would be perfect for mixdowns! Ivan B. ivan.basauri@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1960 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sun May 9, 2010 1:55 pm Subject: Re: WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! engjch13 Offline Send Email Greg was selling one in Eastern PA recently, it might still be available. Look in the message archives around march 15th. He sent me some pictures of it, but I haven't seen the machine in person. Jeff Chestek Ivan Basauri wrote: > > > I'm located in Washington, DC. If the machine is located relatively close > to DC, I'd be willing to go pick it up! > Setting up a little studio and the deck would be perfect for mixdowns! > > Ivan B. > ivan.basauri@... > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1961 From: Ivan Basauri Date: Sun May 9, 2010 7:37 pm Subject: Re: WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! ivan.basauri Offline Send Email Hey JC, Just heard back from Greg. He just sold his so I'm still on the lookout! If you know of anyone else who might have one please let me know! Ivan On May 9, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Chestek wrote: > Greg was selling one in Eastern PA recently, it might still be > available. > > Look in the message archives around march 15th. He sent me some > pictures of it, but I haven't seen the machine in person. > > Jeff Chestek > > Ivan Basauri wrote: > > > > > > I'm located in Washington, DC. If the machine is located > relatively close > > to DC, I'd be willing to go pick it up! > > Setting up a little studio and the deck would be perfect for > mixdowns! > > > > Ivan B. > > ivan.basauri@... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1962 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Sun May 9, 2010 10:31 pm Subject: Re: WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! engjch13 Offline Send Email I'm glad it worked out for him, and if I hear of any others, I'll let you know. Jeff Ivan Basauri wrote: > > > > Hey JC, > Just heard back from Greg. He just sold his so I'm still on the > lookout! If you know of anyone else who might have one please let me > know! > > Ivan > > On May 9, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Chestek > > wrote: > > > Greg was selling one in Eastern PA recently, it might still be > > available. > > > > Look in the message archives around march 15th. He sent me some > > pictures of it, but I haven't seen the machine in person. > > > > Jeff Chestek > > > > Ivan Basauri wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm located in Washington, DC. If the machine is located > > relatively close > > > to DC, I'd be willing to go pick it up! > > > Setting up a little studio and the deck would be perfect for > > mixdowns! > > > > > > Ivan B. > > > ivan.basauri@... > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1963 From: Nishith Doshi Date: Mon May 10, 2010 10:56 am Subject: Re: WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! nycehg Offline Send Email ivan  I live in Manassas and have 2 machines (5002 and 5003) I also have a B-67 with butterfly heads in great condition. What was your price range for these machines ?  nick --- On Sun, 5/9/10, Ivan Basauri wrote: From: Ivan Basauri Subject: Re: [sony_apr] WTB: Sony APR 1/4 or 1/2 two track! To: "sony_apr@yahoogroups.com" Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 7:37 PM  Hey JC, Just heard back from Greg. He just sold his so I'm still on the lookout! If you know of anyone else who might have one please let me know! Ivan On May 9, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Chestek wrote: > Greg was selling one in Eastern PA recently, it might still be > available. > > Look in the message archives around march 15th. He sent me some > pictures of it, but I haven't seen the machine in person. > > Jeff Chestek > > Ivan Basauri wrote: > > > > > > I'm located in Washington, DC. If the machine is located > relatively close > > to DC, I'd be willing to go pick it up! > > Setting up a little studio and the deck would be perfect for > mixdowns! > > > > Ivan B. > > ivan.basauri@ gmail.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (5 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1964 From: Komposition X Date: Tue May 11, 2010 7:26 am Subject: Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK savagecircuts Offline Send Email W-T-BUY $$$$$$$$$$$$ I would very much like to purchase a 1/2' 2 TRK Head Stack for A Sony APR5003V. I also have plenty of APR-5003V Proms Long list around 12+ sets /5850/BVU/7030/7050 etc Please send prices if any List Members have Head Stacks for Sale to: Please send info to: Komposition.x@... (All one word) Thanks Jeremy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1965 From: Les Lambert Date: Tue May 11, 2010 2:55 pm Subject: Re: Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK les_lmbrt Offline Send Email I have two half inch headstacks and only one machine, could sell one or swop for something small and of equivalent value. Both sets are in almost unused condition, hard to choose which is which. Just sent the whole machine and heads to a friend to transfer some old 1/4 inch recordings, so all parts are together at his place. I already posted pics to somebody else on this user group a while back and can search them out if time permits. I don't have any spares apart from the headstacks, have two centre track timecode headstacks too. I am primarily a musician , engineer and archivist these days, and already have sheds full of bits, but you never know what might be missing, give me a try. Les Lambert, London Engerland. --- On Tue, 11/5/10, Komposition X wrote: From: Komposition X Subject: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 11 May, 2010, 12:26  W-T-BUY $$$$$$$$$$$$ I would very much like to purchase a 1/2' 2 TRK Head Stack for A Sony APR5003V. I also have plenty of APR-5003V Proms Long list around 12+ sets /5850/BVU/7030/ 7050 etc Please send prices if any List Members have Head Stacks for Sale to: Please send info to: Komposition. x@optusnet. com.au (All one word) Thanks Jeremy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1966 From: "alex.marcou" Date: Tue May 11, 2010 2:49 pm Subject: APR 5003 Cleaning Tips ? alex.marcou Offline Send Email Hi All, I've recently aquired an APR 5003 and I'm after any hints or tips as to how to clean one of the pinch rollers which over the years has become discoloured with oxide etc. If anyone can help out with some advice, it'd be very much appreciated. Kind regards to you all. Alex Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1967 From: "Richard L. Hess" Date: Tue May 11, 2010 3:10 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 Cleaning Tips ? richardlhess Offline Send Email Hi, Alex, I use Formula 409, but I don't know if it's good or bad for the rubber. I haven't had any problem in 10 years. The Sony pinch rollers seem more robust than the Studer ones--some of which drip into a mass of goo. Cheers, Richard At 02:49 PM 2010-05-11, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I've recently aquired an APR 5003 and I'm after any hints or tips as >to how to clean one of the pinch rollers which over the years has >become discoloured with oxide etc. > >If anyone can help out with some advice, it'd be very much appreciated. > >Kind regards to you all. > >Alex > > > >------------------------------------ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1968 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Tue May 11, 2010 6:57 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 Cleaning Tips ? engjch13 Offline Send Email Seconded. I've used Formula 409 for years also. Make sure you wash off the roller with plenty of clean water afterwards though! And it's unlikely you'll be able to get it totally clean as new! Jeff Chestek Richard L. Hess wrote: > > > Hi, Alex, > > I use Formula 409, but I don't know if it's good or bad for the > rubber. I haven't had any problem in 10 years. > > The Sony pinch rollers seem more robust than the Studer ones--some of > which drip into a mass of goo. > > Cheers, > > Richard > > At 02:49 PM 2010-05-11, you wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I've recently aquired an APR 5003 and I'm after any hints or tips as > >to how to clean one of the pinch rollers which over the years has > >become discoloured with oxide etc. > > > >If anyone can help out with some advice, it'd be very much appreciated. > > > >Kind regards to you all. > > > >Alex > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Richard L. Hess email: richard@... > > Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > Detailed contact information: > http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > > Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1969 From: Alex Marcou Date: Tue May 11, 2010 7:18 pm Subject: Re: APR 5003 Cleaning Tips ? alex.marcou Offline Send Email Thanks Jeff/Richard - your advice is very much appreciated. Oh and just so you know, I have the machine that Les Lambert was referring to earlier on this evening. He's kindly lent it to me to transfer some old 1/4" recordings that my Mother made many 'many' years ago. I'm extremely grateful to him. Kind regards. Alex On 11/05/2010 23:57, "Jeff Chestek" wrote: > Seconded. > > I've used Formula 409 for years also. Make sure you wash off the roller > with plenty of clean water afterwards though! And it's unlikely you'll > be able to get it totally clean as new! > > Jeff Chestek > > Richard L. Hess wrote: >> >> >> Hi, Alex, >> >> I use Formula 409, but I don't know if it's good or bad for the >> rubber. I haven't had any problem in 10 years. >> >> The Sony pinch rollers seem more robust than the Studer ones--some of >> which drip into a mass of goo. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Richard >> >> At 02:49 PM 2010-05-11, you wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I've recently aquired an APR 5003 and I'm after any hints or tips as >>> to how to clean one of the pinch rollers which over the years has >>> become discoloured with oxide etc. >>> >>> If anyone can help out with some advice, it'd be very much appreciated. >>> >>> Kind regards to you all. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> Richard L. Hess email: richard@... >> >> Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX >> Detailed contact information: >> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm >> >> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes. >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1970 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Wed May 12, 2010 2:44 am Subject: Re: Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Les, It will interest me also to have one 1/2" headstack for Sony APR5003V and would like to hear about Your "feelings" of a possible price, which will not hurt You much to sell it and at my end it has not hurt me while investing for this part, or what You will else need for a swop... (There is one possibility until end of May, that one of our family members from London will visit us and could take it handcarry in case we can finalize the deal...) I will be glad hearing from You soon. Thanks and WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Lambert To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 11 May, 2010 21:55 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK I have two half inch headstacks and only one machine, could sell one or swop for something small and of equivalent value. Both sets are in almost unused condition, hard to choose which is which. Just sent the whole machine and heads to a friend to transfer some old 1/4 inch recordings, so all parts are together at his place. I already posted pics to somebody else on this user group a while back and can search them out if time permits. I don't have any spares apart from the headstacks, have two centre track timecode headstacks too. I am primarily a musician , engineer and archivist these days, and already have sheds full of bits, but you never know what might be missing, give me a try. Les Lambert, London Engerland. --- On Tue, 11/5/10, Komposition X wrote: From: Komposition X Subject: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 11 May, 2010, 12:26 W-T-BUY $$$$$$$$$$$$ I would very much like to purchase a 1/2' 2 TRK Head Stack for A Sony APR5003V. I also have plenty of APR-5003V Proms Long list around 12+ sets /5850/BVU/7030/ 7050 etc Please send prices if any List Members have Head Stacks for Sale to: Please send info to: Komposition. x@optusnet. com.au (All one word) Thanks Jeremy. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1971 From: "DonP" Date: Tue May 18, 2010 8:31 am Subject: apr 5003 on Craigs list in Washington DC bidkid1999 Offline Send Email only $200.00 someone back there jump on it! Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1972 From: Komposition X Date: Wed May 19, 2010 10:19 pm Subject: re: Wanted To Buy/Trade APR 1/2 Inch Head-Stack: savagecircuts Offline Send Email Wanted To Buy & /Or Trade Sony APR 50003 1/2 Inch Head-Stack: Hello Les & Arif, I am still looking to purchase a 1/2 inch Head-stack for the Sony 5003V I will Even swap a T/C Card or spare APR e-proms or trade Roland RSS RV800 Spring Reverb (Circa 1974) Urie Para Eq 545/ Klark Teknik 9s Eq's Circa 1974 Plus many others. Les, could you please let me know if you have a deal done, I'm willing to pay shipping to Oz + etc et al. Arif if you have a solid deal with Les, then fine by me & best of luck. Should any other List Members Have - a 1/2" Head-stack I am more then willing to Pay & or Trade plus! please let me know either way. Thank you for your time. I must note I have been mostly a silent member here since 2002, & really only post occasionally. Please send any replies directly to me at: Komposition.X@... or SoundInDesign - AT - optusnet.com.au. (All one word. please just replace - AT - with @ ) Thanks again to all Sony APR Forum Members, Regards. Jeremy - SoundInDesign. ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Lambert To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 11 May, 2010 21:55 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK I have two half inch headstacks and only one machine, could sell one or swop for something small and of equivalent value. Both sets are in almost unused condition, hard to choose which is which. Just sent the whole machine and heads to a friend to transfer some old 1/4 inch recordings, so all parts are together at his place. I already posted pics to somebody else on this user group a while back and can search them out if time permits. I don't have any spares apart from the head stacks, have two centre track timecode headstacks too. I am primarily a musician , engineer and archivist these days, and already have sheds full of bits, but you never know what might be missing, give me a try. Les Lambert, London Engerland. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1973 From: "Arif IYICIL_T-M" Date: Thu May 20, 2010 8:43 am Subject: Re: re: Wanted To Buy/Trade APR 1/2 Inch Head-Stack: arif_iyicil Offline Send Email Dear Jeremy, I did not hear anything else from Les since then, where I have a nice opportunity in these days and someone of our family is in London and could take the head-block as handcarry, where Les seems to be located.... FYI and WBR Arif IYICIL ----- Original Message ----- From: Komposition X To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 20 May, 2010 05:19 Subject: [sony_apr] re: Wanted To Buy/Trade APR 1/2 Inch Head-Stack: Wanted To Buy & /Or Trade Sony APR 50003 1/2 Inch Head-Stack: Hello Les & Arif, I am still looking to purchase a 1/2 inch Head-stack for the Sony 5003V I will Even swap a T/C Card or spare APR e-proms or trade Roland RSS RV800 Spring Reverb (Circa 1974) Urie Para Eq 545/ Klark Teknik 9s Eq's Circa 1974 Plus many others. Les, could you please let me know if you have a deal done, I'm willing to pay shipping to Oz + etc et al. Arif if you have a solid deal with Les, then fine by me & best of luck. Should any other List Members Have - a 1/2" Head-stack I am more then willing to Pay & or Trade plus! please let me know either way. Thank you for your time. I must note I have been mostly a silent member here since 2002, & really only post occasionally. Please send any replies directly to me at: Komposition.X@... or SoundInDesign - AT - optusnet.com.au. (All one word. please just replace - AT - with @ ) Thanks again to all Sony APR Forum Members, Regards. Jeremy - SoundInDesign. ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Lambert To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 11 May, 2010 21:55 Subject: Re: [sony_apr] Re: WTB: SONY APR 5003V APR 1/2 TWO TRK HEAD STACK I have two half inch headstacks and only one machine, could sell one or swop for something small and of equivalent value. Both sets are in almost unused condition, hard to choose which is which. Just sent the whole machine and heads to a friend to transfer some old 1/4 inch recordings, so all parts are together at his place. I already posted pics to somebody else on this user group a while back and can search them out if time permits. I don't have any spares apart from the head stacks, have two centre track timecode headstacks too. I am primarily a musician , engineer and archivist these days, and already have sheds full of bits, but you never know what might be missing, give me a try. Les Lambert, London Engerland. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (2 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1974 From: "ivan.basauri" Date: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:07 am Subject: just got my hands on a 5003!!!! i have some questions... ivan.basauri Offline Send Email so someone was about to throw this machine away and i got there just in time. so i cleaned the tape path out. it was disgusting. it only came with one nab adapter. the one nab adapter that it didncome with doesn't seem to clamp and hold the reel down like other tape machines i work on in other studios. the mechanism of the adapter works but the adapter doesnt seem to attach itself to the machine's post. is this normal? also, while cleaned the tape path and took certain things appart i realized that the machine is almost ready to handle 1/2". from what i can tell i only need to replace a few posts around the headstack assembly that would accomodate 1/2" width. ofcourse i'd need the half inch heads too. sidenote: the manufacture date is 87c(3rd quarter of 87 right?). ive read somewhere that machines built before 88 arent good or easy candidates for the 1/2" switch. any thoughts on this? im not too concerned about getting half inch on ther as i am to just get the machine up and running. most of the time i end up mixing down to 1/4 inch anyways. so as of now ive only been able to test out the input electronics. i have no idea how the repro side is/isnot performing. is there anyone out there with an extra NAB adapter they could sell me? i also need a take up reel which i figure i can get off of ebay and finally pick a formulation. has anyone tried the ATR tape? thanks for your time, ivan Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1975 From: "Komposition.X" Date: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:52 am Subject: Re:just got my hands on a 5003!!!! i have some questions... savagecircuts Offline Send Email You should find all you need on Ebay or that massive E-store that has all the sony spare parts, 2 days ago they still APR 5003 stock nuts and bolts and various bits odd'n end's etc. ATR MRL Tape, don't know, though I need to buy a new one, last is very mouldy after a damp Summer storage spot (Fool me) The 1/2 conversions are available, Get a scope and test the cards, have you a spare in the 5003V or just 5003? There are others more technical then I on this forum, I have prom chips, that's it! (Plus reels and tape) The unit rocks well when mastering to 1/4 inch! good luck, Komp.X Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1976 From: Nishith Doshi Date: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:28 am Subject: Sony APR's for sale - any interest? nycehg Offline Send Email Hello, I have a 5002 and a 5003 for sale. with roll stands. email me off line if you need pics etc. ndoshi@...  Machines are located in Northern VA (woodbridge/manassas)  Nick --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Komposition.X wrote: From: Komposition.X Subject: [sony_apr] Re:just got my hands on a 5003!!!! i have some questions... To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 5:52 AM  You should find all you need on Ebay or that massive E-store that has all the sony spare parts, 2 days ago they still APR 5003 stock nuts and bolts and various bits odd'n end's etc. ATR MRL Tape, don't know, though I need to buy a new one, last is very mouldy after a damp Summer storage spot (Fool me) The 1/2 conversions are available, Get a scope and test the cards, have you a spare in the 5003V or just 5003? There are others more technical then I on this forum, I have prom chips, that's it! (Plus reels and tape) The unit rocks well when mastering to 1/4 inch! good luck, Komp.X [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1977 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:19 pm Subject: MCI JH24 Dead Channel soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Hello All, Channel #4 on my JH24 is dead in the water. Swapped all cards with known good cards, still dead. Looked over wire harnesses and reseated. Haven't had a chance to check voltages yet. Not sure if related: R1 on the Bus Card looks like it got hot. I haven't had any issue though b [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1978 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:50 am Subject: Re: MCI JH24 Dead Channel engjch13 Offline Send Email It doesn't do what? ...playback in repro...? ...playback in sync...? ...pass audio in input...? ...all of the above...? R1 on the bus board supplies power for the master oscillator....a problem there would affect record bias and erase on all the channels. It's not surprising that it runs hot though, it's got about 11 volts of drop across it, in addition to the current draw of the oscillator through it. Jeff Soundscape Studio wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > Channel #4 on my JH24 is dead in the water. Swapped all cards with known > good cards, still dead. Looked over wire harnesses and reseated. Haven't > had a chance to check voltages yet. Not sure if related: R1 on the Bus > Card looks like it got hot. I haven't had any issue though b > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1979 From: Soundscape Studio Date: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:05 am Subject: Re: MCI JH24 Dead Channel soundscapeaudio Offline Send Email Thanks Jeff,  It does not do all of the above. Although tomorrow I'll have a chance to look at it again, I am starting to believe there is something wrong with the input/output connectors...shorted. Possibly in the patchbay.  Tom --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Jeff Chestek wrote: From: Jeff Chestek Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH24 Dead Channel To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 11:50 PM  It doesn't do what? ...playback in repro...? ...playback in sync...? ...pass audio in input...? ...all of the above...? R1 on the bus board supplies power for the master oscillator....a problem there would affect record bias and erase on all the channels. It's not surprising that it runs hot though, it's got about 11 volts of drop across it, in addition to the current draw of the oscillator through it. Jeff Soundscape Studio wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > Channel #4 on my JH24 is dead in the water. Swapped all cards with known > good cards, still dead. Looked over wire harnesses and reseated. Haven't > had a chance to check voltages yet. Not sure if related: R1 on the Bus > Card looks like it got hot. I haven't had any issue though b > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1980 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:59 pm Subject: Re: MCI JH24 Dead Channel engjch13 Offline Send Email Easy enough to check by just switching the Tuchels around. Good luck! Jeff Soundscape Studio wrote: > > > Thanks Jeff, > > It does not do all of the above. Although tomorrow I'll have a chance to > look at it again, I am starting to believe there is something wrong with > the input/output connectors...shorted. Possibly in the patchbay. > > Tom > > --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Jeff Chestek > wrote: > > From: Jeff Chestek > > Subject: Re: [sony_apr] MCI JH24 Dead Channel > To: sony_apr@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 11:50 PM > > > > It doesn't do what? > > ...playback in repro...? > > ...playback in sync...? > > ...pass audio in input...? > > ...all of the above...? > > R1 on the bus board supplies power for the master oscillator....a > problem there would affect record bias and erase on all the channels. > It's not surprising that it runs hot though, it's got about 11 volts of > drop across it, in addition to the current draw of the oscillator > through it. > > Jeff > > Soundscape Studio wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > Channel #4 on my JH24 is dead in the water. Swapped all cards with known > > good cards, still dead. Looked over wire harnesses and reseated. Haven't > > had a chance to check voltages yet. Not sure if related: R1 on the Bus > > Card looks like it got hot. I haven't had any issue though b > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1981 From: "Cary" Date: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:21 pm Subject: Re: just got my hands on a 5003!!!! i have some questions... ladewd Offline Send Email Hi Ivan, There is a good chance I built that machine. I was working in the APR final test department in '87. I don't think you'll have a problem with 1/2" heads. APR production started in Dec. of '85. Most of the 1/2" mods had been completed by '87. I have enough parts to piece together a 1/2" head stack, but I am missing the longer guides, 50 pin d-sub standoff and the roller caps. Does your machine have 2 piece rollers on all 3 rollers? I have 1/2" heads, but I'm not going to part with them. Cheers, Cary --- In sony_apr@yahoogroups.com, "ivan.basauri" wrote: > > so someone was about to throw this machine away and i got there just in time. > so i cleaned the tape path out. it was disgusting. it only came with one nab adapter. the one nab adapter that it didncome with doesn't seem to clamp and hold the reel down like other tape machines i work on in other studios. the mechanism of the adapter works but the adapter doesnt seem to attach itself to the machine's post. is this normal? > > also, while cleaned the tape path and took certain things appart i realized that the machine is almost ready to handle 1/2". from what i can tell i only need to replace a few posts around the headstack assembly that would accomodate 1/2" width. ofcourse i'd need the half inch heads too. > > sidenote: the manufacture date is 87c(3rd quarter of 87 right?). ive read somewhere that machines built before 88 arent good or easy candidates for the 1/2" switch. any thoughts on this? > > im not too concerned about getting half inch on ther as i am to just get the machine up and running. most of the time i end up mixing down to 1/4 inch anyways. so as of now ive only been able to test out the input electronics. i have no idea how the repro side is/isnot performing. is there anyone out there with an extra NAB adapter they could sell me? > > i also need a take up reel which i figure i can get off of ebay and finally pick a formulation. has anyone tried the ATR tape? > > thanks for your time, > ivan > Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1982 From: "ivan.basauri" Date: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:12 pm Subject: APR5003 VU meter replacement bulbs.... ivan.basauri Offline Send Email hi guys, i'm trying to get a hold of some light bulbs for the VU meters which are currently burnt out. i've taken a picture of it next to a dime(the bulbs are pretty small) but don't know how to post it up here. so the info i have: they're triplett meters, type A. does anyone know of any suppliers or any leads as to where i can find some of these bulbs? or if the bulb is of a specific kind-if someone could fill in the actual type and specifics it would be awesome! there's no specifics that i've been able to find in the manual, but maybe i missed it.... many many thanks in advance, Ivan Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1983 From: Jeff Chestek Date: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:03 am Subject: Re: APR5003 VU meter replacement bulbs.... engjch13 Offline Send Email Is it the 7352 bulb listed on page 75 of this pdf? T1 3/4, 6.3 volt www.acksupply.com/catalog/lamps.pdf Jeff ivan.basauri wrote: > > > hi guys, > > i'm trying to get a hold of some light bulbs for the VU meters which are > currently burnt out. i've taken a picture of it next to a dime(the bulbs > are pretty small) but don't know how to post it up here. > > so the info i have: they're triplett meters, type A. does anyone know of > any suppliers or any leads as to where i can find some of these bulbs? > or if the bulb is of a specific kind-if someone could fill in the actual > type and specifics it would be awesome! there's no specifics that i've > been able to find in the manual, but maybe i missed it.... > > many many thanks in advance, > > Ivan > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1984 From: Ivan Date: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:19 am Subject: Re: APR5003 VU meter replacement bulbs.... ivan.basauri Offline Send Email looks exactly like that. i should probably measure the voltage to triple check that its 6.3v. it would be like working on an ampex 351 or somethin! thanks so much for the info. much appreciated ivan On Jul 23, 2010, at 3:03 AM, Jeff Chestek wrote: > Is it the 7352 bulb listed on page 75 of this pdf? T1 3/4, 6.3 volt > > www.acksupply.com/catalog/lamps.pdf > > Jeff > > ivan.basauri wrote: >> >> >> hi guys, >> >> i'm trying to get a hold of some light bulbs for the VU meters which are >> currently burnt out. i've taken a picture of it next to a dime(the bulbs >> are pretty small) but don't know how to post it up here. >> >> so the info i have: they're triplett meters, type A. does anyone know of >> any suppliers or any leads as to where i can find some of these bulbs? >> or if the bulb is of a specific kind-if someone could fill in the actual >> type and specifics it would be awesome! there's no specifics that i've >> been able to find in the manual, but maybe i missed it.... >> >> many many thanks in advance, >> >> Ivan >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Reply | Messages in this Topic (3 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1985 From: Joshua Smith Date: Sun Aug 8, 2010 3:16 am Subject: ATR102 bias weird on one channel rockitrecord... Offline Send Email Ok, so I brought out our studios ATR102 the other night and did the alignment procedure and everything was great all the way up to the record biasing, the left channel seemed fine but the right channel didn't have the bias light on at the top right which at first was weird (i thought the bulb was out), then when I tried to overbias it the needle never fell back to the left, it just kinda stopped moving(kinda clicking like it had reached it's end of turning with the tweeker) so I thought maybe I'll turn up the 1k record gain(since the bias and record gain affect each other) and after I turned up the record gain the bias light turned on(weird), but I still couldn't get the needle to fall back. I tried starting over a few times but maybe I'm not doing it right. I was using the outline from both the atr manual AND Mike Spitz's seminar on alignment so I figured everything was right 1 machine off clean and demag 2 turn on machine spool calibration tape 3 find 10k tone & set repro azimuth 4 find 1k tone and work repro gain 5 find 10k tone and work repro high eq 6 take off tape, turn off machine, clean and demag 7 turn on machine spool a new reel 8 use a signal generator @ 10k and set it to repo and ready 9 record 10k tone and set record azimuth 10 use 10k tone to overbias (this is where things didn't work out) 11 set sig generator to 1k and set record gain 12 set sig generator to 10k and set hieq 13 set sig generator to 100hz and set low eq Obviously the short list but I shouldn't have any problems right? Help? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (1 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1986 From: "rockitrecordings" Date: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:18 am Subject: ATR bias question? rockitrecord... Offline Send Email Ok, so I brought out our studios ATR102 the other night and did the alignment procedure and everything was great all the way up to the record biasing, the left channel seemed fine but the right channel didn't have the bias light on at the top right which at first was weird (i thought the bulb was out), then when I tried to overbias it the needle never fell back to the left, it just kinda stopped moving(kinda clicking like it had reached it's end of turning with the tweeker) so I thought maybe I'll turn up the 1k record gain(since the bias and record gain affect each other) and after I turned up the record gain the bias light turned on(weird), but I still couldn't get the needle to fall back. I tried starting over a few times but maybe I'm not doing it right. I was using the outline from both the atr manual AND Mike Spitz's seminar on alignment so I figured everything was right 1 machine off clean and demag 2 turn on machine spool calibration tape 3 find 10k tone & set repro azimuth 4 find 1k tone and work repro gain 5 find 10k tone and work repro high eq 6 take off tape, turn off machine, clean and demag 7 turn on machine spool a new reel 8 use a signal generator @ 10k and set it to repo and ready 9 record 10k tone and set record azimuth 10 use 10k tone to overbias (this is where things didn't work out) 11 set sig generator to 1k and set record gain 12 set sig generator to 10k and set hieq 13 set sig generator to 100hz and set low eq Obviously the short list but I shouldn't have any problems right? Help? Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1987 From: Ivan Date: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:00 am Subject: Re: ATR bias question? ivan.basauri Offline Send Email have you tried calling mike? he's super helpful and might have some helpful info. On Aug 10, 2010, at 12:18 AM, "rockitrecordings" wrote: > Ok, so I brought out our studios ATR102 the other night and did the > alignment procedure and everything was great all the way up to the record > biasing, the left channel seemed fine but the right channel didn't have the > bias light on at the top right which at first was weird (i thought the bulb > was out), then when I tried to overbias it the needle never fell back to the > left, it just kinda stopped moving(kinda clicking like it had reached it's > end of turning with the tweeker) so I thought maybe I'll turn up the 1k > record gain(since the bias and record gain affect each other) and after I > turned up the record gain the bias light turned on(weird), but I still > couldn't get the needle to fall back. I tried starting over a few times but > maybe I'm not doing it right. I was using the outline from both the atr > manual AND Mike Spitz's seminar on alignment so I figured everything was > right > > 1 machine off clean and demag > 2 turn on machine spool calibration tape > 3 find 10k tone & set repro azimuth > 4 find 1k tone and work repro gain > 5 find 10k tone and work repro high eq > 6 take off tape, turn off machine, clean and demag > 7 turn on machine spool a new reel > 8 use a signal generator @ 10k and set it to repo and ready > 9 record 10k tone and set record azimuth > 10 use 10k tone to overbias > (this is where things didn't work out) > 11 set sig generator to 1k and set record gain > 12 set sig generator to 10k and set hieq > 13 set sig generator to 100hz and set low eq > > Obviously the short list but I shouldn't have any problems right? Help? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1988 From: eddie ciletti Date: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:49 am Subject: Re: ATR bias question? eddieaudio Offline Send Email Ivan I second calling Mike Spitz at ATR. You might check the sync response of the machine in the event it's record head related. It's been a while since I aligned an ATR - aside from a card failure, it's possible that master bias is off. eddie > > have you tried calling mike? he's super helpful and might have some > helpful info. > > On Aug 10, 2010, at 12:18 AM, "rockitrecordings" > > wrote: > > > Ok, so I brought out our studios ATR102 the other night and did the > > alignment procedure and everything was great all the way up to the > record > > biasing, the left channel seemed fine but the right channel didn't > have the > > bias light on at the top right which at first was weird (i thought > the bulb > > was out), then when I tried to overbias it the needle never fell > back to the > > left, it just kinda stopped moving(kinda clicking like it had > reached it's > > end of turning with the tweeker) so I thought maybe I'll turn up the 1k > > record gain(since the bias and record gain affect each other) and > after I > > turned up the record gain the bias light turned on(weird), but I still > > couldn't get the needle to fall back. I tried starting over a few > times but > > maybe I'm not doing it right. I was using the outline from both the atr > > manual AND Mike Spitz's seminar on alignment so I figured everything was > > right > > > > 1 machine off clean and demag > > 2 turn on machine spool calibration tape > > 3 find 10k tone & set repro azimuth > > 4 find 1k tone and work repro gain > > 5 find 10k tone and work repro high eq > > 6 take off tape, turn off machine, clean and demag > > 7 turn on machine spool a new reel > > 8 use a signal generator @ 10k and set it to repo and ready > > 9 record 10k tone and set record azimuth > > 10 use 10k tone to overbias > > (this is where things didn't work out) > > 11 set sig generator to 1k and set record gain > > 12 set sig generator to 10k and set hieq > > 13 set sig generator to 100hz and set low eq > > > > Obviously the short list but I shouldn't have any problems right? Help? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4 (2) [--------------------------------------------------------------------------------] #1989 From: Joshua Smith Date: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:44 pm Subject: Re: ATR bias question? rockitrecord... Offline Send Email Nah I haven't called him yet, I didn't want to burden him if I didn't have to, but it looks as though I may need to. I just wanted to make sure that it was up to par if we ever did end up using it and I guess I'm learning that it's not, better now than in a session. But alot of disney and hip hop comes through so it's all pro tools and the ATR102 hasn't been used in quite a while plus there isn't a tech at our studio to keep things up. I keep trying to make a jump to another studio but to no avail in LA and the assistant positions are few and far between. Plus LARS, Full Sail, and CRAS are putting out hundreds of new grads a year for us to fight against. I'm 28 and engineering quite a bit, I'm not going back down to runner. Sorry for the rant, Thanks guys! Joshua you may be right about the master bias, however I am not fit to adjust that. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 6:49 AM, eddie ciletti < edaudio@...> wrote: > > > Ivan > > I second calling Mike Spitz at ATR. > > You might check the sync response of the machine in the event it's > record head related. > > It's been a while since I aligned an ATR - aside from a card failure, > it's possible that master bias is off. > > eddie > > > > > have you tried calling mike? he's super helpful and might have some > > helpful info. > > > > On Aug 10, 2010, at 12:18 AM, "rockitrecordings" > > comicbookjosh%40gmail.com >> wrote: > > > > > Ok, so I brought out our studios ATR102 the other night and did the > > > alignment procedure and everything was great all the way up to the > > record > > > biasing, the left channel seemed fine but the right channel didn't > > have the > > > bias light on at the top right which at first was weird (i thought > > the bulb > > > was out), then when I tried to overbias it the needle never fell > > back to the > > > left, it just kinda stopped moving(kinda clicking like it had > > reached it's > > > end of turning with the tweeker) so I thought maybe I'll turn up the 1k > > > record gain(since the bias and record gain affect each other) and > > after I > > > turned up the record gain the bias light turned on(weird), but I still > > > couldn't get the needle to fall back. I tried starting over a few > > times but > > > maybe I'm not doing it right. I was using the outline from both the atr > > > manual AND Mike Spitz's seminar on alignment so I figured everything > was > > > right > > > > > > 1 machine off clean and demag > > > 2 turn on machine spool calibration tape > > > 3 find 10k tone & set repro azimuth > > > 4 find 1k tone and work repro gain > > > 5 find 10k tone and work repro high eq > > > 6 take off tape, turn off machine, clean and demag > > > 7 turn on machine spool a new reel > > > 8 use a signal generator @ 10k and set it to repo and ready > > > 9 record 10k tone and set record azimuth > > > 10 use 10k tone to overbias > > > (this is where things didn't work out) > > > 11 set sig generator to 1k and set record gain > > > 12 set sig generator to 10k and set hieq > > > 13 set sig generator to 100hz and set low eq > > > > > > Obviously the short list but I shouldn't have any problems right? Help? > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)